February 13, 2026 • 30 mins
Hans and Menelek learn more about the details of the Lock-in from someone who was in the room. They also explore HBCUs as institutions to be celebrated, but also with shortcomings. They first hear the name Abdul Alkalimat in this episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Coming up on the A Building.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This is your time.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
The light of new realization shines on you today.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
This was an era of terror. It was not a
term network.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
This is an era of terrorism, of lynchings, of rape,
of impunity.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I knew doctor Gloucester very well.
Speaker 5 (00:26):
Yeah, what kind of man was he?
Speaker 6 (00:28):
Well, he was a more rigid He kept telling me
to shave my beard.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
The A Building, Episode three, Historically Black.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
Atlanta, nineteen ninety six gold medalist Muhammad Ali lights the
torch to start the Olympic Games. His body, now controlled
by Parkins's disease, could barely hold steady as he lights
the torch. He manages to light the flame and he
raises the torch, his arms shaking from the disease. It
made the once invincible boxing champion into a mortal man
(01:19):
with a frail body. However, in that moment, he reminded
the world why he was still the greatest champion of
all time. The nineteen ninety six Olympic Games had begun
and Atlanta was on the world stage.
Speaker 7 (01:33):
The decision goes to Cassius Play of the United States
Masterful Boxing Exhibition.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Nineteen sixty nine, just nine years after I Leave won
gold in Rome, Atlantis sat Amid another historic moment, but
unlike Olympic sports, victory would be much harder to prove.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
At an HBCU halftime is game time. The sounds of
the big band carry through a stadium with pulse and energy.
There is no place like a historically black college on Saturday.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Dion Saturdays took the road of college football by storm
when he took the head coaching position at Jackson State
University in Mississippi in eighteen seventy seven. Jackson State was
originally called Natchez Seminary. The school was established to educate
recently free slaves and prepare them for a new world
of American possibility. Jackson State is just one example of
(02:33):
a storied history of historically black colleges and universities. As
of today, there are one hundred and seven hbcs. This
accounts for three percent of all collegies and universities around
the country. However, the impact goes far beyond this number.
In twenty twenty one, Deon Sanders shocked the world by
flipping the number one recruit in the nation, Travis Hunter,
(02:54):
from his alma mater, Florida State, to Jackson, Mississippi. I'm
pretty certain that this is why I'm hearing.
Speaker 8 (03:00):
I'm pretty certain this is why God led me to
Jackson State University, to HBCU, to the Swag. I'm pretty
certain that's why I tried to tell you. Everybody nobody wanted.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
To listen to.
Speaker 8 (03:11):
You thought I was just just running the mouth, and
it was not that. I truly believe. You know, we
stand by that word. I believe and we truly believe
that it's going to be a change. Everything I've done
in my life, I provoke change.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Change At an HBCU, change is more than cliche. It
is a way of life. And they knew that at Morehouse.
Here's a young graduate and more House man Otto Taylor
discussing his reasons for attending me.
Speaker 9 (03:43):
It was always, you know, what is my why when
I get discouraged? What I go back to to keep
me going even if I don't feel like going to
class or doing my work? Got standing behind me. Doctor
Martin Luther King Junior DATD Team Warehouse College. But a
lot of enough people don't know about his mentor Doctor
Benjamin lager Mas very intricate part of the Moorhouse mystique,
(04:03):
and I see that today on campus.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
A lot of people have left at Marco Morehouse and
now Elwood Robinson talks about the mission and value of
HBCUs in the US.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
HBCUs have strived to be driven by something more than
the market economy. There has been the vision that a
university would be an inescapable social.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
Force for good.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
This has attracted a caguary of faculty, staff, and administrative
to these institutions who came because of a strong sense
of mission and providing an excellent educational experience to those
who have been denied access because of racial, social, cultural,
or economic barriers.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
In the core of the HBCU experience. As I mentioned earlier,
HBCUs account for three percent of collegies and universities in
the United States.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
But they play an outsizeer role and the success of
this black leaders and politics, sports, business, and the arts.
Here are just a few.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
We love road called y'all.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Lionel Richie, everybody see everybody, Advanced tu Ski University, Taraji
p Henson.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
There are no colored bathrooms in this building.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Howard University. Thirdgood Marshall, I'm getting Nolan coming apart. Howard University.
Speaker 10 (05:27):
Oprah Winfrey, Who's proud to vote again and again and again,
because I'm an American, and that's what Americans do.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Tennessee State University, Common Fletsco, Florida A and.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
M University, Jerry Rice, I.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Always gave one.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
Mississippi Valley State, Walter Payton.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Life is short. It's also sweet.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Jack The State University, Steve McNair.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
It's been ups and downs. I learned from the good
and I learned from the bad.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Our Course State University, Erkabadu A warm and Sunday Grahmy
State University, Chadwick Boseman. This is your time.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
The light of new realization shines on you today.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
Howard University, Felicia Rishard.
Speaker 11 (06:18):
Doctor King was assassinated in my sophomore year.
Speaker 12 (06:21):
I watched these things happen.
Speaker 11 (06:24):
So much unfolded on that campus.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Howard University, Kamala Harris.
Speaker 10 (06:29):
And together, let us write the next great chapter in
the most extraordinary story ever told.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Howard University, Spike Lee.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Let's do the right thing. Do you know how to
get that.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Any Morehouse College, Samuel L. Jackson.
Speaker 9 (06:50):
The dream has been shared with my partner in crime,
my critic and residents, my rock solid foundation, and my
best friend.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Tell you Morehouse College, Latanya, Richardson Jackson.
Speaker 11 (07:04):
If there's something we can do.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
We get to it.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Spelman College, Stacy Abrams.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
We were dreaming here in Georgia.
Speaker 10 (07:12):
We were dreaming about a president and a vice president
who could look at us and actually see us.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Spelman College, and the list goes on and on.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Welcome back to the A Building. The impact of HBCU
alumni goes far beyond the Richard famous. You can find
HBCU alumni in every industry and work in large corporations
that work as teachers. Their impact is directly connected to
the American experience. Despite a nationwide decline in college enrollment,
many HBCUs saw an increase in student applications and enrollment
(07:54):
during the early twenty twenties. This surge was partially attributed
to the height and awareness of from injustice Following the
twenty twenty protests that gave systemic racism and police brutality.
HPCUS became a refuge for black students seeking a culturally
affirming academic environment.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
In response to growing interest, HBCUs expanded academic programs in
stem science, technology, engineering and mathematics, healthcare, and entrepreneurship. Schools
such as Howard University, North Carolina A and T State
University and Spelman College saw growth in their engineering and
medical programs, partnering with major corporations to provide students with
(08:36):
career opportunities. Education is often tied directly to impact. We
see the effect on the sciences, sports, business, humanities, and entertainment.
We see the impact on pop culture. At Morehouse, doctor
King's death created a new reality for Black America, and
this reality was beyond grim.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Back in nineteen sixty nine, the students of Morehouse College
wanted more from the HBCU experience. HBCUs were often too
conservative for the wide raising protests of the sixties. In
those days, the class and political divide was drawn by education.
This created conflict between an old school administration at Morehouse
and the new generation that would be drawn to leaders
(09:18):
like h. Ray Brown, Up Newton and ADAMLA. Davis. Battle
lines have been drawn, but what are the stakes and
who wins? We spoke with Dick Celeste, former director of
the Peace Corps, two term governor of Ohio, and most
recently nine year president of Colorado College. What was your
initial thought, you know, as a former college president, when
(09:42):
you heard about this story at Morehouse.
Speaker 7 (09:46):
Well, firstly, I you know, I had a lot of
sympathy both for the president and for the students. Sure,
you know what, the late sixties were a fraught time,
and elect state government, you know, would have its young
rotc kids really fire on students who were their own
(10:10):
age demonstrating against the war. It was a tragedy. It
was one of the things that motivated me to get
involved in politics when I did, and I found that
the challenge was how to bring people who had very
different perspectives together in a way where they could really
(10:32):
listen to each other and hear each other. And often
those who were in authority, governors or college presidents felt
that their responsibility was to protect the institution and students
who were angry and frustrated and determined to try to
(10:56):
achieve change, but had very few ways in which they
could directly achieve that change had to find other ways
to do it. So a lock in, I thought, was
from a student perspective, a pretty creative thing to do.
It was peaceful, but it was firm, it was serious.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Well, okay, what's your view on the board lock in?
In nineteen sixty nine.
Speaker 7 (11:23):
I could understand a president or members of a board.
Anyone being locked in would be upset because it is
resisting authority, and it makes it difficult to carry on
a conversation, to really listen to each other and to
(11:43):
say is there a path forward that we could do
together to address the concern that you have. As I
listened to the story of the lock in at Morehouse,
I kind of admire both sides for that story. I
mean Morehouses, I mean it was the leading HBCU. It
(12:05):
is a terrific university and proud of its tradition of
leadership moral leadership. At the same time, they were training
more House men to be men, to stand up for
you know, values, and to speak out. And so I
think in some respects the lock in may have been
(12:30):
a quintessential expression of protest in a Morehouse fashion.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
Here's more from doctor Lomax, president and CEO of the
United Ingo College Fund and former president of Duluk University,
Doctor Lomax, If you're in charge doing that lock in
sixty eight or sixty nine, do you expel those students?
I mean, don't.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
I don't want to say in one sense, I don't
want to say. Guest Hugh Gloucester, he handed me my degree. Yeah,
because I was in the first graduated class and I knew.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Doctor Gloucester very well.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Yeah. What kind of man was he?
Speaker 6 (13:05):
Well, he was a more rigid.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
He kept telling me to shave my beard so I
would play you.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
You know, I was called in weeks a week before
graduation by the dean of the college, a guy named
Brailsford Brazil, who had been given the authority to do this,
I'm sure, by Hugh Gloucester. And doctor Brazil said, uh,
you know you're going to graduate. We can't stop you,
but you need to shave that beard off because you
(13:34):
look like a goriller. And you know I love doctor Brazil,
And I said, you know, but you know I was
graduating second in the class Phi Beta Kappa, and I.
Speaker 7 (13:49):
Said, well, you know what, I guess I've just got
to look like a gorilla.
Speaker 6 (13:53):
The things that they thought were important in my life
how I appeared had nothing to do with who I was,
So I know I would say if doctor Gloucester had
asked me, i'd have said I definitely would not have
expelled them. When I had a student graduated the year
that I had John Lewis as the speaker, and we
gave honorary degrees to him and to Julian Bond. And
(14:16):
we had a policy at at Dillard you could march
even if you hadn't completed everything, if you had something
left to complete. And there was one student, a young
woman whom I knew well, and she was allowed to march.
And she was so mad at me that she wasn't
going to get the degree yet. She's had jand something
(14:37):
to finish. And when she got up to there, she
took her robe off and threw it at me.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I was a little bit surprised. But what was the reaction.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
Well, we didn't expel her. We didn't say she could
never get her degree. We just required her to take
a course in anger management before she I haven't seen
that young lady since, but she now a dinograt and
she got her degree.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
She to anger imagine maclass.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
That was a requirement.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
Welcome back to the A building. More with our conversation
with doctor Lomex.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Let me ask you, then, what do you think about
the jeers that did? I watch several clips of these jeers.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Hans is talking about the commission address for President Claire
Shipman at Columbia.
Speaker 13 (15:31):
We firmly believe that our international students have the same
rights to freedom and speech as everyone else's market are
playing the government for exercising that right.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I watched the facial expression of the President and it
felt at some point that she was either surprised or
disappointment at the length of the.
Speaker 6 (15:58):
Jeers with those presidents is what do you expect? I mean,
what do you expect? You don't know the students, you
don't engage with the students. And I'm going to just
say this about what I saw happening on those campuses
from October eighth on. I went to Columbia academic year
in nineteen sixty eight sixty nine, the year after their lockup.
(16:22):
It was a highly politicized environment. People from varying points
of view were speaking on all the occasions, but no
one No one stopped you from being able to go
to class. No one said you were an illegitimate member
of that community. All that happened within the gates of
Columbia University. It was a very tempestuous time, but it
(16:45):
was never a physically threatening time. What I saw happening
on that campus after October seventh was like a repeat
of what I had seen happening at University of Georgia,
when Charlene Hunter Galt and Hamilton Homes were admitted, when
the University of Mississippi was integrated, those when black children
(17:09):
were admitted to the public schools of a little Rock, Arkansas.
Those students were threatened, they were vilified, they were disrespect
they were put in harm's way. And I watched on
the University on Columbia University's campus, on UCLA's campus, disagreement
turning into violence and hatred and disrespecting the rights the
(17:36):
beliefs of others, and with respect to Jewish students, treating
all Jews as the enemy. I mean, I said to myself,
what has happened to this great university? So I would
say that the earned authority of the presidents of some
of those campuses, they haven't earned the right to lead,
(17:56):
and they got a lot of work to do to
determine how to earn that right once again. And I
think that's been a great harm to those institutions. And
I think you just compare that with what has happened
on HBCU campuses, where students may have disagreed, but where
it's their education and the community in which they've received it,
(18:19):
which they are respecting as they participate in this great
ritual of transition for them. You know, oftentimes HBCUs are
not viewed as leaders as institutions which demonstrate what higher
education should become. I think that they have demonstrated that
we have embraced diversity and disagreement and discourse and still
(18:43):
found a way to create community. And I hope that
we won't forget that. I hope that we will work
hard for that. I celebrate the presidents who have been
very intentional about imbuing the institution. Doctor Gloucester was a
very important president Morehouse. He created the Morehouse School of Medicine.
(19:04):
But on the issue of agreement versus disagreement, he may
have made a mistake, but that was a mistake in
the course of a very important leadership journey he was on.
I disagreed with him about my beard, and I disagree
with it, the characterization that I look like a gorilla.
(19:24):
You know, I look pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I will say this.
Speaker 6 (19:28):
Always embraced me, always celebrated my achievements, and never allowed
how I looked or what I thought to diminish the
respect that I received. And I think we have to
learn to do that. And I believe that we've learned
to do that at HBCUs. We have to continue to
cultivate that and we have to share that with the world.
That is one of our gifts to American higher education.
(19:51):
But there's a dark side to the world of HBCUs.
These schools face historical and systematic headwinds to growth. Al
rule of twenty twenty one, the State of Maryland announced
through state Attorney General's office it had reached a five
hundred and seventy seven million dollars settlement. The funds would
be divided between its four HBCUs Alcorn State, Bowie State,
(20:14):
Morgan State, and the University of Maryland Eastern Shore.
Speaker 5 (20:18):
Quote.
Speaker 12 (20:19):
The lawsuit accused Maryland of underfunding these institutions while developing
programs at traditionally white schools that directly compete with them,
draining away prospective students. In twenty thirteen, a federal judge
ruled that the state maintained a dual and segregated education
system that violated the Constitution end quote.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
In September of twenty thirteen, the US Secretary of Education
and US Secretary of Agriculture sent letters to sixteen governors
across the country serving their disparity in funding between laggrad
HBCUs and their mind HBCU Land grand peers. These disparities
affect schools like Tennessee State University, which in September of
twenty twenty four support to be underfunded by the state
(21:02):
by as much as two billion dollars. GCU is reportedly
in a budget shortfall over forty million dollars. Such a
severe money crunch affects the acron inequality of life of
current and former students. One of the most defining aspects
of HBCUs in the twenty twenties has been the significant
increase in funding from both government and private sectors. The
(21:23):
Biden administration made historic investments in HBCUs, including billions of
dollars allocated through pandemic belief packages, student deck forgiveness initiatives,
and increased peil grant funding. Additionally, private corporations that philanthropists
recognize the importance of supporting HBCUs companies like Apple, Google,
and Netflix, pledged millions to support HBCU endowments, scholarships, and
(21:48):
research initiatives. Notably, Mackenzie Scott formerly m Kidney Scott Bezos,
a philanthropist, donated hundreds of millions of dollars to multiple
HBCUs on unprecedented act that provided much needed financial support
to those institutions.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
While students at HBCUs feel the financial pressure at their
respective schools. In twenty twenty three, the Supreme Court reversed
a long standing affirmative action ruling, gutting race based admission considerations.
During the unrests of the pandemic, black students and students
of color documented and protested their struggles with equal treatment
(22:27):
at predominantly white institutions.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
In the fall of twenty twenty one, a protest erupted
on the campus of Howard University. The situation was more
complex because the president, doctor Wayne Frederick, not only held
three degrees from Howard University, but was relatively young in
his late forties.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
The students were protesting housing conditions on campus. Things took
a turn when students pitched tents on campus. The visuals
embarrassed the university not sit in.
Speaker 14 (22:55):
At Howard University, about a dozen demonstrators are still occupying
Blackburn Universeverity Center. The students are demanding representation on the
university's board of trustees. They're also calling for action to
address living conditions in student dorms.
Speaker 15 (23:09):
So, students, I've been facing a lot of issues on campus,
everything from housing to tuition increases to safety issues on campus,
and we feel as though administration is not listening to us.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Back in nineteen sixty nine, HBCU students were experiencing some
of the same issues. We spoke to doctor Alvita King,
niece to Martin Luther King Junior and granddaughter to Daddy King.
Who better to give us perspective on the climate of
Atlanta at the time and the thinking of both men.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
When is the first time you heard the story of
the lockout?
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Actually, during the time that it happened, I didn't know.
Samuel L.
Speaker 11 (23:51):
Jackson became a famous actor and all that and a
big voice that everybody listens to. But back in those days,
I heard about it, but I was on a different
front of protests, you see. I wasn't Black power all
of this. I tried to do that, but my daddy
before he was killed. Dad was killed the next year
A d King, Martin's brother was killed and throwing the
(24:11):
swimming pool no water in his lungs. But until Daddy died,
he made sure that I didn't join the Black power
black only he said, you really can't do that. So
I was in a different movement, but I was there
at the same time, so I heard about it.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
Do you recall, as you all called in Daddy King's
reaction to that locking or his reaction to being essentially
held hostage in that way.
Speaker 11 (24:41):
You know, he was like these young folks, That's what
he would have said, you know, his own son. He
didn't agree with all my uncle and Daddy's tactics. He
would ask them to come back off, to not be
so forceful with that. This were too dangerous. There's got
to be a better way. That was Granddaddy's perspective. So
he would have had to have looked at it. What
(25:01):
was he in his forties then, maybe fifties alm, But
he would have had to say, these are the young folks.
He would never have discredited their concerns, He never would,
but he may not have agreed with their method.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
In our question to deep in this event, the first
person we found who was willing to speak about the
lock in and was actually participant was James Counts Early,
a cultural educator in Morehouse alone class of sixty nine.
Here's what he had to say, starting with Benjamin Mays.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
The only real image I have of him is the
quiet doctor Mace when we took over the administration building and.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
He was sitting there.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
He sat basically quiet.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
I don't remember him saying anything in the whole meeting,
at least those parts of the meeting that I was
engaged in.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
He was a stately looking man. He was quiet. Gloucester
was really on the pin head of consideration.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
That was for the sort of clash with executive authority
at Morehouse. But I don't have any larger I never
read doctor.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Mays, you know.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
I knew he was a highly touted and highly respected figure,
and I accepted that there was a historical reasons for that,
but it was never He was never a point of
reference for me. So I don't have any more familiar
kinds of intersections with him.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
James, tell us a little bit about the institution of
the Black World, and to follow up on that, a
little bit about the man who, from your perspective, led
the lock in.
Speaker 6 (26:32):
Abdullah Calamonde INSWO the Black World is a major catalyst
for the Black Studies movement.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
They organized major conferences. Abdullah Klimite is still one of
the principles and the evolution and ongoing issues and new
generations of people who were doing black studies.
Speaker 16 (26:48):
That was a sign of a changing moment, a major
sign of a changing moment, because he was connected to
doctor King, Missus King, to all of those upper class,
middle class people in Atlanta who were fighting vigorously to
break American apartheid, a metaphor we now use in hindsight
(27:11):
to break American segregation.
Speaker 6 (27:13):
Another key figure here was a Spellman student, doctor Bernie
Johnson Reagan. She had gone to college at sixteen.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Was its spell from Albany State.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
Because she organized a protest against white man trying to
pick up black students, and the black community was very unsettled.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
I mean, we must try to think about this. This
was a day. This was an era of terror. It
was not a terminenty.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
This was an era of terrorism, of lynchings, of rape,
of impunity in which black people would move off the
sidewalk when white people were coming.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
You didn't look him in the eye.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
And my generation, I'm now almost seventy nine years old,
but you know, as an eighteen year old while I
live that, I'm.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Not sure we didn't understand the cavity of that.
Speaker 6 (28:01):
Sure, and So the integrationist move was to find an equality,
which is to be positively acknowledged.
Speaker 8 (28:10):
You know.
Speaker 6 (28:10):
Now we critique it as you know King, and as
before he died Harry Belafonte, with whom I became very
close to, we used to say how King would say,
you know, I think we're integrating a burning house.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
But that was an evolution in King's thinking as he
was as he was about it.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
You're attracted to this particular professor. You hear about this
particular course of this book that somebody shared that, you know,
the way people would talk around in dorm rooms and spaces,
and this is perculating, right.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And plus King has been killed. Yes, so this is
a globe.
Speaker 6 (28:42):
This is an Atlanta shock, it's a Moorhouse shock, it's
a national shock, it's.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
A global shock.
Speaker 6 (28:49):
The whole society was unsettled, The whole liberal society was
unsettled because King was not just an individualized black figure.
He was a contextual figure of massive change.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
American history lives in the echoes of education. These echoes
speak to the fights of the past and the promise
of the future. Education provides stability in the potential of economics, prosperity,
Is that enough? Next time on the A Building.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I climbed the tree into the second floor because the
doors have been locked.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
I go in.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I'm in the hallway.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
The hallway is packed.
Speaker 6 (29:39):
Abdu La kale Made and a few other students were
inside the conference room with the board.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
And I go in the room. The A Building is
produced by Imagine Audio for iHeart Podcasts. It is written
and hosted by me Hans Charles and my co host
menelike La Mumba.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
It is executive produced by Karl Wa Poker and Nathan
Klok me manelik Wamomba and Hans Charles.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norville and Nikki Torre.
Marketing lead is David Wasserman.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
It is produced, directed, and edited by Timothy Fernara with
producer John Asanti, Sound design and music by Alloy Trex.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
And special thanks to April Ryan, Doctor, Elia Davis, Kim
vs Ada, Bobby Know and James Early. If you enjoyed
this episode, be sure to rate and review The A
Building on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast
Coming up on the A Building.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This is your time.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
The light of new realization shines on you today.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
This was an era of terror. It was not a
term network.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
This is an era of terrorism, of lynchings, of rape,
of impunity.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I knew doctor Gloucester very well.
Speaker 5 (00:26):
Yeah, what kind of man was he?
Speaker 6 (00:28):
Well, he was a more rigid He kept telling me
to shave my beard.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
The A Building, Episode three, Historically Black.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
Atlanta, nineteen ninety six gold medalist Muhammad Ali lights the
torch to start the Olympic Games. His body, now controlled
by Parkins's disease, could barely hold steady as he lights
the torch. He manages to light the flame and he
raises the torch, his arms shaking from the disease. It
made the once invincible boxing champion into a mortal man
(01:19):
with a frail body. However, in that moment, he reminded
the world why he was still the greatest champion of
all time. The nineteen ninety six Olympic Games had begun
and Atlanta was on the world stage.
Speaker 7 (01:33):
The decision goes to Cassius Play of the United States
Masterful Boxing Exhibition.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Nineteen sixty nine, just nine years after I Leave won
gold in Rome, Atlantis sat Amid another historic moment, but
unlike Olympic sports, victory would be much harder to prove.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
At an HBCU halftime is game time. The sounds of
the big band carry through a stadium with pulse and energy.
There is no place like a historically black college on Saturday.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Dion Saturdays took the road of college football by storm
when he took the head coaching position at Jackson State
University in Mississippi in eighteen seventy seven. Jackson State was
originally called Natchez Seminary. The school was established to educate
recently free slaves and prepare them for a new world
of American possibility. Jackson State is just one example of
(02:33):
a storied history of historically black colleges and universities. As
of today, there are one hundred and seven hbcs. This
accounts for three percent of all collegies and universities around
the country. However, the impact goes far beyond this number.
In twenty twenty one, Deon Sanders shocked the world by
flipping the number one recruit in the nation, Travis Hunter,
(02:54):
from his alma mater, Florida State, to Jackson, Mississippi. I'm
pretty certain that this is why I'm hearing.
Speaker 8 (03:00):
I'm pretty certain this is why God led me to
Jackson State University, to HBCU, to the Swag. I'm pretty
certain that's why I tried to tell you. Everybody nobody wanted.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
To listen to.
Speaker 8 (03:11):
You thought I was just just running the mouth, and
it was not that. I truly believe. You know, we
stand by that word. I believe and we truly believe
that it's going to be a change. Everything I've done
in my life, I provoke change.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Change At an HBCU, change is more than cliche. It
is a way of life. And they knew that at Morehouse.
Here's a young graduate and more House man Otto Taylor
discussing his reasons for attending me.
Speaker 9 (03:43):
It was always, you know, what is my why when
I get discouraged? What I go back to to keep
me going even if I don't feel like going to
class or doing my work? Got standing behind me. Doctor
Martin Luther King Junior DATD Team Warehouse College. But a
lot of enough people don't know about his mentor Doctor
Benjamin lager Mas very intricate part of the Moorhouse mystique,
(04:03):
and I see that today on campus.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
A lot of people have left at Marco Morehouse and
now Elwood Robinson talks about the mission and value of
HBCUs in the US.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
HBCUs have strived to be driven by something more than
the market economy. There has been the vision that a
university would be an inescapable social.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
Force for good.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
This has attracted a caguary of faculty, staff, and administrative
to these institutions who came because of a strong sense
of mission and providing an excellent educational experience to those
who have been denied access because of racial, social, cultural,
or economic barriers.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
In the core of the HBCU experience. As I mentioned earlier,
HBCUs account for three percent of collegies and universities in
the United States.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
But they play an outsizeer role and the success of
this black leaders and politics, sports, business, and the arts.
Here are just a few.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
We love road called y'all.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Lionel Richie, everybody see everybody, Advanced tu Ski University, Taraji
p Henson.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
There are no colored bathrooms in this building.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Howard University. Thirdgood Marshall, I'm getting Nolan coming apart. Howard University.
Speaker 10 (05:27):
Oprah Winfrey, Who's proud to vote again and again and again,
because I'm an American, and that's what Americans do.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Tennessee State University, Common Fletsco, Florida A and.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
M University, Jerry Rice, I.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Always gave one.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
Mississippi Valley State, Walter Payton.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Life is short. It's also sweet.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Jack The State University, Steve McNair.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
It's been ups and downs. I learned from the good
and I learned from the bad.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Our Course State University, Erkabadu A warm and Sunday Grahmy
State University, Chadwick Boseman. This is your time.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
The light of new realization shines on you today.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
Howard University, Felicia Rishard.
Speaker 11 (06:18):
Doctor King was assassinated in my sophomore year.
Speaker 12 (06:21):
I watched these things happen.
Speaker 11 (06:24):
So much unfolded on that campus.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Howard University, Kamala Harris.
Speaker 10 (06:29):
And together, let us write the next great chapter in
the most extraordinary story ever told.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Howard University, Spike Lee.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Let's do the right thing. Do you know how to
get that.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Any Morehouse College, Samuel L. Jackson.
Speaker 9 (06:50):
The dream has been shared with my partner in crime,
my critic and residents, my rock solid foundation, and my
best friend.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Tell you Morehouse College, Latanya, Richardson Jackson.
Speaker 11 (07:04):
If there's something we can do.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
We get to it.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Spelman College, Stacy Abrams.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
We were dreaming here in Georgia.
Speaker 10 (07:12):
We were dreaming about a president and a vice president
who could look at us and actually see us.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Spelman College, and the list goes on and on.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Welcome back to the A Building. The impact of HBCU
alumni goes far beyond the Richard famous. You can find
HBCU alumni in every industry and work in large corporations
that work as teachers. Their impact is directly connected to
the American experience. Despite a nationwide decline in college enrollment,
many HBCUs saw an increase in student applications and enrollment
(07:54):
during the early twenty twenties. This surge was partially attributed
to the height and awareness of from injustice Following the
twenty twenty protests that gave systemic racism and police brutality.
HPCUS became a refuge for black students seeking a culturally
affirming academic environment.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
In response to growing interest, HBCUs expanded academic programs in
stem science, technology, engineering and mathematics, healthcare, and entrepreneurship. Schools
such as Howard University, North Carolina A and T State
University and Spelman College saw growth in their engineering and
medical programs, partnering with major corporations to provide students with
(08:36):
career opportunities. Education is often tied directly to impact. We
see the effect on the sciences, sports, business, humanities, and entertainment.
We see the impact on pop culture. At Morehouse, doctor
King's death created a new reality for Black America, and
this reality was beyond grim.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Back in nineteen sixty nine, the students of Morehouse College
wanted more from the HBCU experience. HBCUs were often too
conservative for the wide raising protests of the sixties. In
those days, the class and political divide was drawn by education.
This created conflict between an old school administration at Morehouse
and the new generation that would be drawn to leaders
(09:18):
like h. Ray Brown, Up Newton and ADAMLA. Davis. Battle
lines have been drawn, but what are the stakes and
who wins? We spoke with Dick Celeste, former director of
the Peace Corps, two term governor of Ohio, and most
recently nine year president of Colorado College. What was your
initial thought, you know, as a former college president, when
(09:42):
you heard about this story at Morehouse.
Speaker 7 (09:46):
Well, firstly, I you know, I had a lot of
sympathy both for the president and for the students. Sure,
you know what, the late sixties were a fraught time,
and elect state government, you know, would have its young
rotc kids really fire on students who were their own
(10:10):
age demonstrating against the war. It was a tragedy. It
was one of the things that motivated me to get
involved in politics when I did, and I found that
the challenge was how to bring people who had very
different perspectives together in a way where they could really
(10:32):
listen to each other and hear each other. And often
those who were in authority, governors or college presidents felt
that their responsibility was to protect the institution and students
who were angry and frustrated and determined to try to
(10:56):
achieve change, but had very few ways in which they
could directly achieve that change had to find other ways
to do it. So a lock in, I thought, was
from a student perspective, a pretty creative thing to do.
It was peaceful, but it was firm, it was serious.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Well, okay, what's your view on the board lock in?
In nineteen sixty nine.
Speaker 7 (11:23):
I could understand a president or members of a board.
Anyone being locked in would be upset because it is
resisting authority, and it makes it difficult to carry on
a conversation, to really listen to each other and to
(11:43):
say is there a path forward that we could do
together to address the concern that you have. As I
listened to the story of the lock in at Morehouse,
I kind of admire both sides for that story. I
mean Morehouses, I mean it was the leading HBCU. It
(12:05):
is a terrific university and proud of its tradition of
leadership moral leadership. At the same time, they were training
more House men to be men, to stand up for
you know, values, and to speak out. And so I
think in some respects the lock in may have been
(12:30):
a quintessential expression of protest in a Morehouse fashion.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
Here's more from doctor Lomax, president and CEO of the
United Ingo College Fund and former president of Duluk University,
Doctor Lomax, If you're in charge doing that lock in
sixty eight or sixty nine, do you expel those students?
I mean, don't.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
I don't want to say in one sense, I don't
want to say. Guest Hugh Gloucester, he handed me my degree. Yeah,
because I was in the first graduated class and I knew.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Doctor Gloucester very well.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Yeah. What kind of man was he?
Speaker 6 (13:05):
Well, he was a more rigid.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
He kept telling me to shave my beard so I
would play you.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
You know, I was called in weeks a week before
graduation by the dean of the college, a guy named
Brailsford Brazil, who had been given the authority to do this,
I'm sure, by Hugh Gloucester. And doctor Brazil said, uh,
you know you're going to graduate. We can't stop you,
but you need to shave that beard off because you
(13:34):
look like a goriller. And you know I love doctor Brazil,
And I said, you know, but you know I was
graduating second in the class Phi Beta Kappa, and I.
Speaker 7 (13:49):
Said, well, you know what, I guess I've just got
to look like a gorilla.
Speaker 6 (13:53):
The things that they thought were important in my life
how I appeared had nothing to do with who I was,
So I know I would say if doctor Gloucester had
asked me, i'd have said I definitely would not have
expelled them. When I had a student graduated the year
that I had John Lewis as the speaker, and we
gave honorary degrees to him and to Julian Bond. And
(14:16):
we had a policy at at Dillard you could march
even if you hadn't completed everything, if you had something
left to complete. And there was one student, a young
woman whom I knew well, and she was allowed to march.
And she was so mad at me that she wasn't
going to get the degree yet. She's had jand something
(14:37):
to finish. And when she got up to there, she
took her robe off and threw it at me.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I was a little bit surprised. But what was the reaction.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
Well, we didn't expel her. We didn't say she could
never get her degree. We just required her to take
a course in anger management before she I haven't seen
that young lady since, but she now a dinograt and
she got her degree.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
She to anger imagine maclass.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
That was a requirement.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
Welcome back to the A building. More with our conversation
with doctor Lomex.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Let me ask you, then, what do you think about
the jeers that did? I watch several clips of these jeers.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Hans is talking about the commission address for President Claire
Shipman at Columbia.
Speaker 13 (15:31):
We firmly believe that our international students have the same
rights to freedom and speech as everyone else's market are
playing the government for exercising that right.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I watched the facial expression of the President and it
felt at some point that she was either surprised or
disappointment at the length of the.
Speaker 6 (15:58):
Jeers with those presidents is what do you expect? I mean,
what do you expect? You don't know the students, you
don't engage with the students. And I'm going to just
say this about what I saw happening on those campuses
from October eighth on. I went to Columbia academic year
in nineteen sixty eight sixty nine, the year after their lockup.
(16:22):
It was a highly politicized environment. People from varying points
of view were speaking on all the occasions, but no
one No one stopped you from being able to go
to class. No one said you were an illegitimate member
of that community. All that happened within the gates of
Columbia University. It was a very tempestuous time, but it
(16:45):
was never a physically threatening time. What I saw happening
on that campus after October seventh was like a repeat
of what I had seen happening at University of Georgia,
when Charlene Hunter Galt and Hamilton Homes were admitted, when
the University of Mississippi was integrated, those when black children
(17:09):
were admitted to the public schools of a little Rock, Arkansas.
Those students were threatened, they were vilified, they were disrespect
they were put in harm's way. And I watched on
the University on Columbia University's campus, on UCLA's campus, disagreement
turning into violence and hatred and disrespecting the rights the
(17:36):
beliefs of others, and with respect to Jewish students, treating
all Jews as the enemy. I mean, I said to myself,
what has happened to this great university? So I would
say that the earned authority of the presidents of some
of those campuses, they haven't earned the right to lead,
(17:56):
and they got a lot of work to do to
determine how to earn that right once again. And I
think that's been a great harm to those institutions. And
I think you just compare that with what has happened
on HBCU campuses, where students may have disagreed, but where
it's their education and the community in which they've received it,
(18:19):
which they are respecting as they participate in this great
ritual of transition for them. You know, oftentimes HBCUs are
not viewed as leaders as institutions which demonstrate what higher
education should become. I think that they have demonstrated that
we have embraced diversity and disagreement and discourse and still
(18:43):
found a way to create community. And I hope that
we won't forget that. I hope that we will work
hard for that. I celebrate the presidents who have been
very intentional about imbuing the institution. Doctor Gloucester was a
very important president Morehouse. He created the Morehouse School of Medicine.
(19:04):
But on the issue of agreement versus disagreement, he may
have made a mistake, but that was a mistake in
the course of a very important leadership journey he was on.
I disagreed with him about my beard, and I disagree
with it, the characterization that I look like a gorilla.
(19:24):
You know, I look pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I will say this.
Speaker 6 (19:28):
Always embraced me, always celebrated my achievements, and never allowed
how I looked or what I thought to diminish the
respect that I received. And I think we have to
learn to do that. And I believe that we've learned
to do that at HBCUs. We have to continue to
cultivate that and we have to share that with the world.
That is one of our gifts to American higher education.
(19:51):
But there's a dark side to the world of HBCUs.
These schools face historical and systematic headwinds to growth. Al
rule of twenty twenty one, the State of Maryland announced
through state Attorney General's office it had reached a five
hundred and seventy seven million dollars settlement. The funds would
be divided between its four HBCUs Alcorn State, Bowie State,
(20:14):
Morgan State, and the University of Maryland Eastern Shore.
Speaker 5 (20:18):
Quote.
Speaker 12 (20:19):
The lawsuit accused Maryland of underfunding these institutions while developing
programs at traditionally white schools that directly compete with them,
draining away prospective students. In twenty thirteen, a federal judge
ruled that the state maintained a dual and segregated education
system that violated the Constitution end quote.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
In September of twenty thirteen, the US Secretary of Education
and US Secretary of Agriculture sent letters to sixteen governors
across the country serving their disparity in funding between laggrad
HBCUs and their mind HBCU Land grand peers. These disparities
affect schools like Tennessee State University, which in September of
twenty twenty four support to be underfunded by the state
(21:02):
by as much as two billion dollars. GCU is reportedly
in a budget shortfall over forty million dollars. Such a
severe money crunch affects the acron inequality of life of
current and former students. One of the most defining aspects
of HBCUs in the twenty twenties has been the significant
increase in funding from both government and private sectors. The
(21:23):
Biden administration made historic investments in HBCUs, including billions of
dollars allocated through pandemic belief packages, student deck forgiveness initiatives,
and increased peil grant funding. Additionally, private corporations that philanthropists
recognize the importance of supporting HBCUs companies like Apple, Google,
and Netflix, pledged millions to support HBCU endowments, scholarships, and
(21:48):
research initiatives. Notably, Mackenzie Scott formerly m Kidney Scott Bezos,
a philanthropist, donated hundreds of millions of dollars to multiple
HBCUs on unprecedented act that provided much needed financial support
to those institutions.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
While students at HBCUs feel the financial pressure at their
respective schools. In twenty twenty three, the Supreme Court reversed
a long standing affirmative action ruling, gutting race based admission considerations.
During the unrests of the pandemic, black students and students
of color documented and protested their struggles with equal treatment
(22:27):
at predominantly white institutions.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
In the fall of twenty twenty one, a protest erupted
on the campus of Howard University. The situation was more
complex because the president, doctor Wayne Frederick, not only held
three degrees from Howard University, but was relatively young in
his late forties.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
The students were protesting housing conditions on campus. Things took
a turn when students pitched tents on campus. The visuals
embarrassed the university not sit in.
Speaker 14 (22:55):
At Howard University, about a dozen demonstrators are still occupying
Blackburn Universeverity Center. The students are demanding representation on the
university's board of trustees. They're also calling for action to
address living conditions in student dorms.
Speaker 15 (23:09):
So, students, I've been facing a lot of issues on campus,
everything from housing to tuition increases to safety issues on campus,
and we feel as though administration is not listening to us.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Back in nineteen sixty nine, HBCU students were experiencing some
of the same issues. We spoke to doctor Alvita King,
niece to Martin Luther King Junior and granddaughter to Daddy King.
Who better to give us perspective on the climate of
Atlanta at the time and the thinking of both men.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
When is the first time you heard the story of
the lockout?
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Actually, during the time that it happened, I didn't know.
Samuel L.
Speaker 11 (23:51):
Jackson became a famous actor and all that and a
big voice that everybody listens to. But back in those days,
I heard about it, but I was on a different
front of protests, you see. I wasn't Black power all
of this. I tried to do that, but my daddy
before he was killed. Dad was killed the next year
A d King, Martin's brother was killed and throwing the
(24:11):
swimming pool no water in his lungs. But until Daddy died,
he made sure that I didn't join the Black power
black only he said, you really can't do that. So
I was in a different movement, but I was there
at the same time, so I heard about it.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
Do you recall, as you all called in Daddy King's
reaction to that locking or his reaction to being essentially
held hostage in that way.
Speaker 11 (24:41):
You know, he was like these young folks, That's what
he would have said, you know, his own son. He
didn't agree with all my uncle and Daddy's tactics. He
would ask them to come back off, to not be
so forceful with that. This were too dangerous. There's got
to be a better way. That was Granddaddy's perspective. So
he would have had to have looked at it. What
(25:01):
was he in his forties then, maybe fifties alm, But
he would have had to say, these are the young folks.
He would never have discredited their concerns, He never would,
but he may not have agreed with their method.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
In our question to deep in this event, the first
person we found who was willing to speak about the
lock in and was actually participant was James Counts Early,
a cultural educator in Morehouse alone class of sixty nine.
Here's what he had to say, starting with Benjamin Mays.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
The only real image I have of him is the
quiet doctor Mace when we took over the administration building and.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
He was sitting there.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
He sat basically quiet.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
I don't remember him saying anything in the whole meeting,
at least those parts of the meeting that I was
engaged in.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
He was a stately looking man. He was quiet. Gloucester
was really on the pin head of consideration.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
That was for the sort of clash with executive authority
at Morehouse. But I don't have any larger I never
read doctor.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Mays, you know.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
I knew he was a highly touted and highly respected figure,
and I accepted that there was a historical reasons for that,
but it was never He was never a point of
reference for me. So I don't have any more familiar
kinds of intersections with him.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
James, tell us a little bit about the institution of
the Black World, and to follow up on that, a
little bit about the man who, from your perspective, led
the lock in.
Speaker 6 (26:32):
Abdullah Calamonde INSWO the Black World is a major catalyst
for the Black Studies movement.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
They organized major conferences. Abdullah Klimite is still one of
the principles and the evolution and ongoing issues and new
generations of people who were doing black studies.
Speaker 16 (26:48):
That was a sign of a changing moment, a major
sign of a changing moment, because he was connected to
doctor King, Missus King, to all of those upper class,
middle class people in Atlanta who were fighting vigorously to
break American apartheid, a metaphor we now use in hindsight
(27:11):
to break American segregation.
Speaker 6 (27:13):
Another key figure here was a Spellman student, doctor Bernie
Johnson Reagan. She had gone to college at sixteen.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Was its spell from Albany State.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
Because she organized a protest against white man trying to
pick up black students, and the black community was very unsettled.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
I mean, we must try to think about this. This
was a day. This was an era of terror. It
was not a terminenty.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
This was an era of terrorism, of lynchings, of rape,
of impunity in which black people would move off the
sidewalk when white people were coming.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
You didn't look him in the eye.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
And my generation, I'm now almost seventy nine years old,
but you know, as an eighteen year old while I
live that, I'm.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Not sure we didn't understand the cavity of that.
Speaker 6 (28:01):
Sure, and So the integrationist move was to find an equality,
which is to be positively acknowledged.
Speaker 8 (28:10):
You know.
Speaker 6 (28:10):
Now we critique it as you know King, and as
before he died Harry Belafonte, with whom I became very
close to, we used to say how King would say,
you know, I think we're integrating a burning house.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
But that was an evolution in King's thinking as he
was as he was about it.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
You're attracted to this particular professor. You hear about this
particular course of this book that somebody shared that, you know,
the way people would talk around in dorm rooms and spaces,
and this is perculating, right.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And plus King has been killed. Yes, so this is
a globe.
Speaker 6 (28:42):
This is an Atlanta shock, it's a Moorhouse shock, it's
a national shock, it's.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
A global shock.
Speaker 6 (28:49):
The whole society was unsettled, The whole liberal society was
unsettled because King was not just an individualized black figure.
He was a contextual figure of massive change.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
American history lives in the echoes of education. These echoes
speak to the fights of the past and the promise
of the future. Education provides stability in the potential of economics, prosperity,
Is that enough? Next time on the A Building.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I climbed the tree into the second floor because the
doors have been locked.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
I go in.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I'm in the hallway.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
The hallway is packed.
Speaker 6 (29:39):
Abdu La kale Made and a few other students were
inside the conference room with the board.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
And I go in the room. The A Building is
produced by Imagine Audio for iHeart Podcasts. It is written
and hosted by me Hans Charles and my co host
menelike La Mumba.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
It is executive produced by Karl Wa Poker and Nathan
Klok me manelik Wamomba and Hans Charles.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norville and Nikki Torre.
Marketing lead is David Wasserman.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
It is produced, directed, and edited by Timothy Fernara with
producer John Asanti, Sound design and music by Alloy Trex.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
And special thanks to April Ryan, Doctor, Elia Davis, Kim
vs Ada, Bobby Know and James Early. If you enjoyed
this episode, be sure to rate and review The A
Building on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast
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