March 20, 2026 • 30 mins
Hans and Meneleck get to speak with the brains behind the entire lock-in, not Abdul Akalimat but Thomas Brock. The guys learn a tremendous amount of detail from this final interview. Also, W. Kamau Bell joins the discussion on today's protest, its risks, and what can be done now. Former NFL star Andrew Hawkins on his own protest, and the repercussion from it.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Coming up on the A Building the lock in.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
The idea just came from two people, myself and another
brother named Spurgeon Smith.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Certainly think there's a resk in protesting day, specifically because
the world is burning. The risk hasn't been this high
a long time.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Just came out. I'm doctor Hugh h Cloff.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I demanded re release, and I said, I deid man
as you get back in there.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
And so juice. He physically picked him up, turned around.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
And pushed him back in the common room the.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
A Building, Episode eight, The Duty of Youth. So Hans,
here we are. It's the final episode. We've spoken to
a long list of incredible guests, including people who were
(00:57):
in the room with Sam Jackson and other students during
the nineteen sixty nine lock in of the More House
Boarder trustees. We dug up archival documents and footage to
substantiate the facts, and we captured the move in Atlanta
in nineteen sixty nine. As we figure out the how
(01:18):
and the why this remarkable story.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Perhaps more importantly, we've used this unique protest as a
lens to examine the struggles of students and activists in
America today and to consider what may lie ahead.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
We've been working on this project for ten months now, researching,
trying to get to the bottom of things, and the
more we learned in our research at the AA building
lock in, the more we wanted details and who was
warning things in the room, who was there, and what
exactly was said.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
In the end, we finally got that detail, but it
wasn't from the person we thought it would come from.
Abdullah Klamante was not the originator of this idea. In fact,
this whole thing started from a Morehouse of lump who
told us things we had never heard before about the
lock in. Here's our interview with a man behind the Morehouse,
lock In Morehouse alum and civil rights activist, Thomas Brock.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
So what would you say were some of the things
that led to the lock in?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So the mood on Campbell's was sort of liketed in
nineteen sixty eight when doctor King was assassinated. Me and
a bunch of other students went to Memphis to march
after he was assassinated. So the mood that the Campbell's
moved was kind of rebellious. Trust Steve boy was having
a meeting that week and we wanted to know make
our president know and we would call the concerned students
(02:40):
and we had a lot of demand that we wanted
to be met. So we went into the meeting with
that purpose, but they didn't want to listen to us.
So the lock in was really something that was spontaneously.
It wasn't something that was planned. And we were going
to lock trustees up, me and another brother from Birmingham
because we were outside with a lot of stud were trying
to demonstrate and we were outside of the conference room
(03:04):
and we decided, well, we're gonna let them stay in
there till they come to a positive decision about our demands.
So on campus they had these keep off the grass
signs and they had these chains they ran through a
pipe that ran around the grass, so you wouldn't you
wouldn't step on the grass. So we went outside and
(03:25):
pulled the chains out, sent our brother down on HUNTERD
Street to our locks if it got some locks, and
it ballooned after that.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Okay, so just to clarify, the board kicks you out
of the meeting. So after they removed you from the meeting,
how long did it take or how much time passed
before you had them locked in?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
About thirty five minutes an hour, because we we thought
about how we were gonna keep them inside of the
conference room, and the best way to do that was
to lock the doors out side of the conference room
that led up to the conference room. So we chained
the doors and told them they were staying at the
trustee board. They had to stay in there until they
(04:08):
made a positive deceasion.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
So who set up the Concerned Students or how did
that particular organization starts?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, they started at a meeting one night that we
had it in Sale Hall. Brother named Furgion Smith from Birmingham, Alabama.
Or brother named Lafield Banks. He is from Birmingham, Alabama. Also,
you product had James Ardy, did that? Brother named Frank
McBee from Greenville, South Carolina.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
So was Sam Jackson one of the concerned students?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
No, not really, but he became one through you can
say migration. I mean he was at he was up
there with us, you know.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
So so you you had a group of students demonstrating
outside of the a building and then a group the
concern students kind of went in to talk about their
concerns and then from there, when the Board of trustees
sort of rejected your concerns. That's when you guys decided
(05:15):
to spontaneously lock them in.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yes, that's great.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
The idea just came from the lock in just came
from two people, myself and another brother named Spurgeon Smith
from Birmingham, Alabama.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
We got to change. We locked them up.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I got two guys, there were two interests to the
conference room. I put one guy on one door and
one guy on another door and said, nobody leaves.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
Nobody, welcome back to the A building.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Here's more.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
House alum and civil rights activist Thomas Brock. How did
you get word to others students who started to join
the lock in or join whatever was happening.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well, it was, it was. It was a lot of
people that were up there on the second floor that
was sitting around wondering what was going on. So I
told them what we were going to do, gonna lock
them in, so you're gonna be either een out. A
lot of them left because a lot of them were
scared of it, you know, scared of what's gonna happen
(06:27):
to them. So when we changed the doors, the students
that were gonna stay stayed and the rest of them
went outside.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
So that's essentially, how how the word got out that
something was happening inside the building because correct, correct, you
kind of gave him a warning and then those students
went outside and said, this is what's happening.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Right, and it's a funny thing. Though, when they told
the other student body what was happening, a large body
of students got around in front of the administration building
and wanted us to come out. I guess cause they
didn't understand what was going on made it They were
misinformed on what was happening. So that was one of
the reasons that they were demonstrating against some of the
(07:10):
suits were demonstrating against us.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
There are a couple of names that have come up
in our research. Do you or did you know personally
Abdul a Colamant and his involvement in the lock in.
I believe his name may have been George McCord at
the time he was a professor at Spelman.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
His involvement may have been the negotiator and a brother
named Aby Spellman.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Aby Spellman because we've heard that name and it was
ab Spellman also in the negotiator type of role. Or
yes you were and did you know Sam Jackson personally?
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Knowing personally to this day.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
What kind of guy was he back in the day.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Well, Sam was so like get on the band, whacking
type dude. You know, he didn't really get involved during
that Black Power era. Sam was any building, but he
wasn't really an organizer.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
He was just going along for the riots.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
What was the thing that made you say, we have
to get these demands to the board.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
The board usually just come just once a year. They
walked around the campus and look at this and look
at that. But this was the year sixty nine, and
we thought that maybe we could get in there and
let them hear our demands and then I'll see how
they were taking We really wasn't invited to the meeting.
We saw like bars in or can you say, we
(08:28):
know that where the meeting was held, and we just
sort of.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Went to the meeting.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
What were the demands that they initially rejected.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Well, he read they rejected all of them.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Do you remember anything that doctor May said during the meeting.
What was his reaction?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Well, doctor Mays was sort of in between. He was
kind of like spellbound. But he was not the president
at the time. He was a president of marriage. The
president at the time was doctor uh globster, And he
tried to leave the conference room, but one of the
guys that was on the door picked him up, turned
him around, and put him.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Back in the cottage.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And how did he take that?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
He didn't take it too well because he came out,
I'm doctor Hugh h.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Coloff.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I demanded to be released, and I said, I said, man,
as you get back in there, and so.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
You she was on the football team, he from Chicago.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
He physically picked him up, turned her around, and pushed
him back in.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
The common room.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Do you recall anything that Daddy King said when you
guys came into the room, they.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Might let it.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Have to let Daddy King out of that because of
his uh, some physical problems that he had. And we
we let another lady out, the older lady that was
on the trust seat board. We let her out too,
because she was having any some physical problem. And I
didn't want something to happen to them during that time
that we were there. Yeah, but the FBI and all
(09:53):
those people were outside, but they were scared to come
in because they didn't know if we had any kind
of weapons.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
Oh, I see, I didn't realize that there were other
authorities outside the building waiting to.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Get in the police and the FBI.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Wow, do you know who called them?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I don't.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
And the reason they never came in the building was
because they were afraid.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
They were afraid that we were gonna harm the trustees
or that we had weapons.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
And I did.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
One of the students from New York who was to
sing you with me, he did bring.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Me a whapon.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Do you mind telling us what the weapon was?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
If you're okay with that?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
A thirty eight caliber pistol.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Did you show that pistol to anybody in the boardroom
at all?
Speaker 4 (10:31):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
I did, so.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
It was just kind of a little something on the
side that he gave you just in case it went
the wrong direction.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
That's correct.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
That's a fascinating thing.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
That's But the next day they made our demands.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Well, judge judge told.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Azacer remember his name, said the demands were invalid because
they were under duish. He used the word duriss. So
after that letters were sent to our parents. They found
out somebody had told them who was in the building,
and they had a trial for us as a school
was out and we all came back to school for
what they called I would call a mock trial before
(11:11):
the Student Advisor.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Committee and what happened at your trial?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Well, it really did go well for the trial because
a lot of the people rejected it and they called
us in there alphabetically one by one.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
But uh, the meeting was kind.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Of disrupted because Donald Ross's brother arthor t bo Or
Ross came in and raised hell and all kind of health.
So the meeting really didn't Your trial didn't go the
way they didn't wanted to go, so they let us
all go.
Speaker 5 (11:39):
Did you have any repercussions yourself? Did you? Did you
get expelled?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (11:43):
I was expelled for a year, so that would have
been your senior year.
Speaker 7 (11:46):
No.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
Yes, so when you got expelled you had to come
back to finish yes? And were you able to come
back to finish yes. You know, if you had a grandson,
what would be your advice if they, you know, if
they felt like jumping into activism.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
The young people are the one could be the activists.
Activism is upont of what young people ought to do.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
That seems to be all our questions, sir, Thank you
so much.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Welcome back to the A building. As a way to
round out our story, wanted to look at protests as
a means for change today and in the future.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
We spoke with a friend and colleague, the CNN host, writer, documentarian,
and comedian w Comal Bell. So, come out. I really
appreciate you doing this podcast.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I mean, you know, there's a handful of people in
this business who have had my back and also have
made my work to look great and be great. You're
one of those people. So I try to make sure
I do right by those people. So thank you, Hans.
I appreciate that so much.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Do you think there's a risk, like, is there a
risk to protesting today? And do you think we're like
sort of witnessing the demise of protests in the United
States as a viable tool.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
I think, first of all, I certainly think there's a
risk to protesting day, specifically because the world is burning.
Like I think there's a the risk is probably not
never been higher, but hasn't been this high in a
long time, because they will literally just take you if
you did nothing, and you'll look up and be an
l Salvador, or they will just detain you downtown and
then a sudden you have to become a news story.
(13:20):
And like there's some veteran who just got wasn't people
are getting scooped and part even protesting right now. We
have a whole bunch of people here who shut down
the Bay Bridge during a protest not that long ago,
and they're being prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
law and oh thousands of dollars and like fees and
it's legal fees, and they're like not legal fees, but
they're being sued for all this money. And it's like,
(13:41):
these are just people who are like just young people
who went out to protest. So I think that that
in some sense, it's like I said, it's in fact,
they've never been higher. Let's not be hyperbolic. There's also
different type of protests we can go to war wards,
Like there's a protest to day in the park, let's
all go bring your signs, blah blah blah. But then
there's a kind of protest that that people do where
(14:02):
it's like, let's shut the bridge down. And I think
those kind of protests are more dangerous down than have
been in years.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
What do you think is a sort of prescription when
you look at you know, young people are increasingly just
satisfied with just the entire political system, What do you
think is effective for them? Like, based on your observations
of doing your show and your stand up and seeing
so many different parts of the country and your knowledge
of history, what do you think is prescriptive for them
(14:30):
that's effective.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I mean, the thing that I tell you all the
time is that we all need to be engaged in
pushing back against against fascism that exists in this country.
Now it's not like it's not creepy, it is crept
And if you can't do anything, start locally, like figure
out some cause in your community. And so for some
people that's maybe shutting down the bridge, but for most
(14:52):
of that it's like I'm gonna go volunt you at
the Indian's Rights Organization and stuff envelopes for an hour.
But you gotta do something because if you do nothing,
you're going to get exactly what you deserve. So I
would say young people are I think more involved now
than they probably have been before because they're more connected
through social media. But I think the prescription is so
like just it. Everybody doesn't have to be running at
(15:13):
the gates, running at the gates with a maltiv cocktail.
Some people have to be like Hey, my neighbor who's
afraid to go outside? Can I make you a cast role?
And so I think we have to understand that there's
multiple ways to do this. And also whatever you do
this year, you need to do a little more next year.
There's no different than like working out. You got to
keep raising your standard or of what is of what
(15:34):
you can do to stand up to this because because
because they're not they're like the New England Patriots, they're
not taking any days off, no grind.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
Based on sort of kind of what you just said,
looking back at the sixty nine takeover the building, like
what's your conclusion about how it ended for them? Like
what's your how would you describe that?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I mean, it's it's hard to like it. It's hard
for us now to look back that time and go,
here's what I would have done. I mean, it's I
think it's foolish because I think there's a way in
which we might be approaching to that again where some
people just start to explode and go I gotta do something.
So I think the idea that you put yourself on
the line to shake up the status quo, especially in
place like Morehouse where it's like we can all just
(16:18):
be fine here? You know, I think that's a big deal.
I think sometimes we want to know for those people,
but what was your plan after that? And a lot
of times they're like, we didn't get that far. Next
to our list was destroy the system, you know. So
I think sometimes we can look back on history and
be like, why I would have done it differently? And
I think the important thing is like, then do it
differently now. Like I think I really understand and really
(16:42):
respect when young people are like, I've had enough, but
I haven't actually built out the nineteen point plan yet.
It's a Kaepernick thing. I don't. I don't. People are
as like, well what do you like? You know, people
like this happens all the time. You go to the
no Kings protest, Well, what does it do? Doesn't do anything? Yeah? Yeah,
But for some people that's their million protests and they're
not and it's not gonna do anything. But for some
(17:04):
people say first protests and they go, oh, I'm going
to engage in acivism now, so stop expecting everything to
solve every problem. I think a lot of times we gaslight,
we gaslight things like that to go would it accomplish? Well? Yeah,
but if you feel like it accomplished nothing, then you
can stay home. All we can do is be inspired
by the things by these actions that have been done
in the past like that, and also learn from whatever
(17:26):
mistakes we see and then do it differently now instead
of criticizing them back then, like instead of like, you know, well,
if I've been Harry Tubman, okay, first of all, I
would have had a car. Okay, I'd have had a
big truck I could Okay, you.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Know, do you think we have an appropriate context of
the legacy of Doctor King like night now in twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
It's funny because I I'm doing a thing in my
standing back right now where I where I real list
of things early in the show that I'm like, look,
I don't have jokes for everything, but I just want
to make sure you take some lessons with you and
and take some homework assignments with you, and you know,
so I don't have it so and it's like about
two or three minutes long, and I just read these
things I wrote down, and some of them are definitely
(18:12):
meant to be funny, some of them are serious and
also have to be funny. Some of them are just
serious but one of the things I say because I
you know, I was on CNN for a year, so
I have a lot of white people in my crown,
and so I say this, I go next, Martin Luther
King Junior day only share the Martin Luther King Junior
quotes about American imperialism and the failure of the white moderate.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Oh try that, yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Do And it gets like some of the people you know, yeah,
because I go, we all know that I have a
dream speech. It was his hit single, we got It,
We got It. We don't need to hear that right now.
And it also challenges the white people to go, what's
the what is the white moderate because most of a
lot of them don't know it. The failure of the
white moderate being like, that's the biggest problem for the
black community is white moderate. Its ability. White moderate's basically
(18:57):
the ability to compromise on their on on operation because
they're comfortable and so. And also the thing is like,
right before he died, King was talking about American imperialism
because of the Vietnam War. So I'm sort of like,
so I think that's why I feel like my job
to go stop looking at that one thing and look
at the rest of this man's work, because he was
definitely whenever who knows. At some point him and Malcolm
(19:18):
Xican to meet each other and be like, yeah, you
were right, you too, you know what my bad? Yeah
exactly got a little bit like a like a rap
battle thing. Yeah, we were going at each other.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
But you know, and I think that that is at
the core of it, where it's just like he was
truly a radical, a radical that was murdered in cold Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
People act like he died of old age, Like it's
so funny to me, Like you realize he was thirty
nine right now, we don't even really consider that an adult.
Speaker 7 (19:52):
His ideas were so dangerous to society they felt that
he should be murdered for it. And and I know
west Coin is phrase like they you call it the
the Santa Clausification of doctor Yeah, right, that just kind
of if we can kind of sterilize the message it somehow,
and in so many ways, ironically, it is designed to
(20:13):
appease the white moderates, where it's like, look, I like
Doctor King, you know, I like some of the things
he said in the speeches, and you know, I go
to a sofu place on MLK weekend, and I'm doing
everything I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
They don't. They ordered door, door dash, they don't.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
That's the wrong part of town, right, they don't go there.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
But I think the other thing is that, yeah, that
we I mean, you know, for me, if you sort
of only have a march on Washington MLK in your head,
just watch that speech he gives the night before he's assassinated,
where he's like, tomorrow, I'm gonna be assassinated everybody. Look
you basically not the same guy. Yeah, it's over for me, everybody.
I'm I'm gonna be killed tomorrow. But anyway, you all,
(20:54):
here's whatever, here's what I want you to do.
Speaker 8 (20:55):
It is no longer to charge between violum saying no
unbalance in this world is nonvioleance on non existence.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
That is where we are today.
Speaker 8 (21:13):
Also in the human rights revolution, is something getting done
and done in a hurry to bring the colored peoples
of the world out of their long years of poverty,
their long years of curd and neglect.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
The whole world is doomed. All those evidence shows that
he was not popular when he died. When he was assassinated,
he was not a popular American figure.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
But again, the the I guess this unwillingness to revisit
or I mean, I guess so much of America right
now is ahistorical, and people say things that are just
categorically untrue that could be debunked with a tenth grade
level of education.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
You know what I mean, can be debunked in a
TikTok Just watch this fifteen second TikTok video, so you
can stop signing and dumb.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
But the compounding of that and and so much of
the chaos of the Trump administration where this kind of
like we're just going to keep saying shit, keep doing shit,
keep this mantling shit, make it impossible to have real
discourse with so much of the democracy is founded on.
So if you can kind of.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
Flood the streets with nonsense, it kind of it desensitizes
people to what, okay, is there actually anything we can
do to stop this?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
And also if you dismantled the social safety that you
can actually just let the streets flood with water because
there's nobody there to stop the floods and there's no
warning system to let people know that the bloods are coming.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Just this fascinating the time period that we're in and
how we should think about it. And I feel like
you're such an interesting figure to discuss this with because
I feel like, unlike so many of us, like you,
you go when you talk to people regardless of who
they are, and you meet them where they are. So
it's it's I'm curious as to how you see this
(23:15):
current where we are in, this sort of fascist neo
fascist state in America that that we're in. Are are
we are we going to escape the gravity of this
black hole known as this administration? Or are we are
we doomed for it to slowly rip us apart?
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I mean, so it's funny. I just put up the
next leg of my stand up tour and the date
for like Tulsa, Oklahoma, Oklahoma City, Louisville, Kentucky. I was like, damn,
there's not Atlanta here. There's not a there's not a
you know, there's not a New York on here. So
it's it's funny. I think sometimes I get too much
credit for talking with people. I was like, oh no,
(23:51):
this time, I'm actually gone to the places. Now these
are gonna be more blue spots in red states, but
they're still in red state. It's still I'm still not playing.
It's not all Burt, and so therefore you just hear
different conversations because you're in those spots. So what I
would say is this, I hear a lot of people
say things like we'll fix this in the midterms, and
I'm like, I don't think you're understanding how fast and
(24:12):
moving if you're assuming there's gonna be a midterm election. Yeah,
the one of the things I say on my list,
And again this one is like not really meant to
be funny, but it's just like again I sort of
mix things up. I'm like, it's just stop acting like
things are going to be okay. Like I'm not saying
you can't have plans with midterms, but also you need
to have a go bag, and you need to update
(24:33):
your passport, and you need to check on your neighbor
and you need to make sure that you have that
you download that app that lets you know ices in
your community that you have neighbors you want to help.
Speaker 9 (24:42):
And you need to check on the local public schools
to find out if there's anything they need to Oh you,
I can donate this to you or system my garage,
And you need to look into mutual a to find
out if there's people around you who need who need
a blanket and you have a blanket, and you know
what I mean, like you have to actually be working
today and also hoping that tomorrow will get here, because
it's just they're they're moving that fast. And I think
(25:03):
anybody who's like I see a lot of people are like, well,
fix it in the midterms.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Oh man, you.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
Really that's what they're willing to have a midterms?
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, because that's why they probably thought it in World
War two Germany too.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
Fix It's a really good point. And then in Miami,
the city council, the mayor gave themselves an extra year.
They just canceled the election.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Exactly exactly, and that and that's a good There's so
much news that I remember that, and I forgot about it,
And yet that's a big deal.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
The reason you forgot about it is because it's because
nobody in Miami flooded the streets and protests and said
you're not going to do this, Like that's because what
are you supposed to do where you're living?
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Like you know what I'm saying, there's nothing you could
do for people in Miami. I'll be like, yeah, yeah,
you could cancel elections, but you're not going to be mayor. Yeah, like,
we'll just we'll stop showing up to work. Guess what,
We're not gonna shot up to work now. Yeah, you know,
work that. And then and then I went to one
of the episodes of United Ja. We went to Durra Dura,
which is right outside of Miami, and we did that
(26:03):
about Venezuelan Americans, in Venezuelans living in America, who many
are living illegally, and just about how Venezuela used to
be like a like a rich country with lots of
natural resources, and the wrong people took over, and then
people ended up using the money for napkins, like the
currency for napkins, and people were fighting in the streets
for water, like stealing water from people's homes, like getting
(26:24):
bucket like and and a lot of those Venezuelans, the
first of all, the first people moved to America in
Venezuela started to fall with the rich Venezuelans and they
moved to Miami area because it's a heavily Latino America
Latino community and those are some of the and those
the most trumpy Trump fan you'd ever meet. I met
in Durel, outside of Miami. They and I went to
(26:47):
a Venezuelans for Trump meeting and then and I was like,
but why do you like him so much? And they said,
because he said he's gonna help Venezuelan. And those literally
some of those same people I interviewed were on news
recently going like President Trump, you're you're you're disupporting me,
You're kidnapping our people. Yeah, what is it about? This
is my last question? What is it about the cause.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
I don't want to say the American psyche, but what
is it about people living in America, whether or not
they identify as American citizens or whatever? What is it
about them that that makes them so susceptible to the
obvious deceptions of our politicians.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
A lot of those people who come to move here
from other countries, whether whether quote unquote legally or quote
unquote illegally, are are coming here because we have exported
the idea of the American dream of like you can
come here and make and make anything happen you want to.
And then when they come here, even from African countries,
they learn as long as you're not black, you have
(27:46):
a higher chance of getting a bank loaned. Oh, and
also you have an easier chance of starting a business
if you're not if you're not a black American. So
they come here and they start business and they start
to make some money, or or they just get seduced
by idea of like I think, when I make money,
I want to make sure I keep my money, And
the Republicans are like, oh, we'll help you do that,
not understanding you're never going to be us, but they
(28:07):
get seduced by the idea that the Republican Party has
has exported. Oh you want the American dream. We're the
part of the American dream. And then they hear things
like even though I'm paying taxes out my ass when
i'm rich, I don't want to pay taxes. And the
Republicans said, when I become rich, but you'll never go
come then I won't have to pay a lot of taxes.
America used race as a way to make poor white
people feel better about themselves, like at least I'm not
(28:29):
that guy.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Welcome ou. I can't thank the man.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
I mean, I can't thank you enough for so many reasons.
And I you know, I've made jokes about it, but
like when I say that Hans Charles got me through
that talk, I would just like my eyes would be wide.
I'm like, what do I get involved in? And you
would just be like, we got this. I was like, okay,
he said, we got this, So I'm happy to be here. Yeah,
this is You gave us some gold. I really appreciate it.
(28:54):
Thank you man, Thank you.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
We want to thank you for taking the time to
listen to our story. And as Bob Marley once said,
the duty of youth is to challenge corruption.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
We want to leave you with some form of hope
and inspiration. So here's a great inspiring Medeeba Nelson Mandella.
Speaker 10 (29:13):
So I say to the youth of today, to the dreamers,
to the ones who have been silenced, rejected, or overlooked,
walk your path with dignity, lift your voice with integrity,
and serve not just your ambition but a cause greater
(29:39):
than yourself. I believe in you, I believe in tomorrow,
and I believe that the long walk continues, not just
for me, but for all of us.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
The A Building is produced by Imagine Audio for iHeart Podcasts.
It is written and hosted by me, Hans Charles and
my co host menelec La Mumba.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
It is executive produced by Karl Welker and Nathan Klope,
me Mandelik Lamomba and Hans Charles.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts ar Katrina Norville and Nikki Torre.
Marketing lead is David Wasserman.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
It is produced, directed, and edited by Timothy Fernara with
producer John Asanti, Sound design and music by Alloy Trex.
Speaker 5 (30:27):
And special thanks to April Ryan, Doctor, Elia Davis, Kim
vc Ada, Bobbino and James Early. If you enjoyed this episode,
be sure to rate and review the A Building on
Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Coming up on the A Building the lock in.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
The idea just came from two people, myself and another
brother named Spurgeon Smith.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Certainly think there's a resk in protesting day, specifically because
the world is burning. The risk hasn't been this high
a long time.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Just came out. I'm doctor Hugh h Cloff.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I demanded re release, and I said, I deid man
as you get back in there.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
And so juice. He physically picked him up, turned around.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
And pushed him back in the common room the.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
A Building, Episode eight, The Duty of Youth. So Hans,
here we are. It's the final episode. We've spoken to
a long list of incredible guests, including people who were
(00:57):
in the room with Sam Jackson and other students during
the nineteen sixty nine lock in of the More House
Boarder trustees. We dug up archival documents and footage to
substantiate the facts, and we captured the move in Atlanta
in nineteen sixty nine. As we figure out the how
(01:18):
and the why this remarkable story.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Perhaps more importantly, we've used this unique protest as a
lens to examine the struggles of students and activists in
America today and to consider what may lie ahead.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
We've been working on this project for ten months now, researching,
trying to get to the bottom of things, and the
more we learned in our research at the AA building
lock in, the more we wanted details and who was
warning things in the room, who was there, and what
exactly was said.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
In the end, we finally got that detail, but it
wasn't from the person we thought it would come from.
Abdullah Klamante was not the originator of this idea. In fact,
this whole thing started from a Morehouse of lump who
told us things we had never heard before about the
lock in. Here's our interview with a man behind the Morehouse,
lock In Morehouse alum and civil rights activist, Thomas Brock.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
So what would you say were some of the things
that led to the lock in?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So the mood on Campbell's was sort of liketed in
nineteen sixty eight when doctor King was assassinated. Me and
a bunch of other students went to Memphis to march
after he was assassinated. So the mood that the Campbell's
moved was kind of rebellious. Trust Steve boy was having
a meeting that week and we wanted to know make
our president know and we would call the concerned students
(02:40):
and we had a lot of demand that we wanted
to be met. So we went into the meeting with
that purpose, but they didn't want to listen to us.
So the lock in was really something that was spontaneously.
It wasn't something that was planned. And we were going
to lock trustees up, me and another brother from Birmingham
because we were outside with a lot of stud were trying
to demonstrate and we were outside of the conference room
(03:04):
and we decided, well, we're gonna let them stay in
there till they come to a positive decision about our demands.
So on campus they had these keep off the grass
signs and they had these chains they ran through a
pipe that ran around the grass, so you wouldn't you
wouldn't step on the grass. So we went outside and
(03:25):
pulled the chains out, sent our brother down on HUNTERD
Street to our locks if it got some locks, and
it ballooned after that.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Okay, so just to clarify, the board kicks you out
of the meeting. So after they removed you from the meeting,
how long did it take or how much time passed
before you had them locked in?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
About thirty five minutes an hour, because we we thought
about how we were gonna keep them inside of the
conference room, and the best way to do that was
to lock the doors out side of the conference room
that led up to the conference room. So we chained
the doors and told them they were staying at the
trustee board. They had to stay in there until they
(04:08):
made a positive deceasion.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
So who set up the Concerned Students or how did
that particular organization starts?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, they started at a meeting one night that we
had it in Sale Hall. Brother named Furgion Smith from Birmingham, Alabama.
Or brother named Lafield Banks. He is from Birmingham, Alabama. Also,
you product had James Ardy, did that? Brother named Frank
McBee from Greenville, South Carolina.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
So was Sam Jackson one of the concerned students?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
No, not really, but he became one through you can
say migration. I mean he was at he was up
there with us, you know.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
So so you you had a group of students demonstrating
outside of the a building and then a group the
concern students kind of went in to talk about their
concerns and then from there, when the Board of trustees
sort of rejected your concerns. That's when you guys decided
(05:15):
to spontaneously lock them in.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yes, that's great.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
The idea just came from the lock in just came
from two people, myself and another brother named Spurgeon Smith
from Birmingham, Alabama.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
We got to change. We locked them up.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I got two guys, there were two interests to the
conference room. I put one guy on one door and
one guy on another door and said, nobody leaves.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
Nobody, welcome back to the A building.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Here's more.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
House alum and civil rights activist Thomas Brock. How did
you get word to others students who started to join
the lock in or join whatever was happening.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well, it was, it was. It was a lot of
people that were up there on the second floor that
was sitting around wondering what was going on. So I
told them what we were going to do, gonna lock
them in, so you're gonna be either een out. A
lot of them left because a lot of them were
scared of it, you know, scared of what's gonna happen
(06:27):
to them. So when we changed the doors, the students
that were gonna stay stayed and the rest of them
went outside.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
So that's essentially, how how the word got out that
something was happening inside the building because correct, correct, you
kind of gave him a warning and then those students
went outside and said, this is what's happening.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Right, and it's a funny thing. Though, when they told
the other student body what was happening, a large body
of students got around in front of the administration building
and wanted us to come out. I guess cause they
didn't understand what was going on made it They were
misinformed on what was happening. So that was one of
the reasons that they were demonstrating against some of the
(07:10):
suits were demonstrating against us.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
There are a couple of names that have come up
in our research. Do you or did you know personally
Abdul a Colamant and his involvement in the lock in.
I believe his name may have been George McCord at
the time he was a professor at Spelman.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
His involvement may have been the negotiator and a brother
named Aby Spellman.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Aby Spellman because we've heard that name and it was
ab Spellman also in the negotiator type of role. Or
yes you were and did you know Sam Jackson personally?
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Knowing personally to this day.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
What kind of guy was he back in the day.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Well, Sam was so like get on the band, whacking
type dude. You know, he didn't really get involved during
that Black Power era. Sam was any building, but he
wasn't really an organizer.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
He was just going along for the riots.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
What was the thing that made you say, we have
to get these demands to the board.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
The board usually just come just once a year. They
walked around the campus and look at this and look
at that. But this was the year sixty nine, and
we thought that maybe we could get in there and
let them hear our demands and then I'll see how
they were taking We really wasn't invited to the meeting.
We saw like bars in or can you say, we
(08:28):
know that where the meeting was held, and we just
sort of.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Went to the meeting.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
What were the demands that they initially rejected.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Well, he read they rejected all of them.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Do you remember anything that doctor May said during the meeting.
What was his reaction?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Well, doctor Mays was sort of in between. He was
kind of like spellbound. But he was not the president
at the time. He was a president of marriage. The
president at the time was doctor uh globster, And he
tried to leave the conference room, but one of the
guys that was on the door picked him up, turned
him around, and put him.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Back in the cottage.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And how did he take that?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
He didn't take it too well because he came out,
I'm doctor Hugh h.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Coloff.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I demanded to be released, and I said, I said, man,
as you get back in there, and so.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
You she was on the football team, he from Chicago.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
He physically picked him up, turned her around, and pushed
him back in.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
The common room.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Do you recall anything that Daddy King said when you
guys came into the room, they.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Might let it.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Have to let Daddy King out of that because of
his uh, some physical problems that he had. And we
we let another lady out, the older lady that was
on the trust seat board. We let her out too,
because she was having any some physical problem. And I
didn't want something to happen to them during that time
that we were there. Yeah, but the FBI and all
(09:53):
those people were outside, but they were scared to come
in because they didn't know if we had any kind
of weapons.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
Oh, I see, I didn't realize that there were other
authorities outside the building waiting to.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Get in the police and the FBI.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Wow, do you know who called them?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I don't.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
And the reason they never came in the building was
because they were afraid.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
They were afraid that we were gonna harm the trustees
or that we had weapons.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
And I did.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
One of the students from New York who was to
sing you with me, he did bring.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Me a whapon.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Do you mind telling us what the weapon was?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
If you're okay with that?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
A thirty eight caliber pistol.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Did you show that pistol to anybody in the boardroom
at all?
Speaker 4 (10:31):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
I did, so.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
It was just kind of a little something on the
side that he gave you just in case it went
the wrong direction.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
That's correct.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
That's a fascinating thing.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
That's But the next day they made our demands.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Well, judge judge told.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Azacer remember his name, said the demands were invalid because
they were under duish. He used the word duriss. So
after that letters were sent to our parents. They found
out somebody had told them who was in the building,
and they had a trial for us as a school
was out and we all came back to school for
what they called I would call a mock trial before
(11:11):
the Student Advisor.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Committee and what happened at your trial?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Well, it really did go well for the trial because
a lot of the people rejected it and they called
us in there alphabetically one by one.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
But uh, the meeting was kind.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Of disrupted because Donald Ross's brother arthor t bo Or
Ross came in and raised hell and all kind of health.
So the meeting really didn't Your trial didn't go the
way they didn't wanted to go, so they let us
all go.
Speaker 5 (11:39):
Did you have any repercussions yourself? Did you? Did you
get expelled?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (11:43):
I was expelled for a year, so that would have
been your senior year.
Speaker 7 (11:46):
No.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
Yes, so when you got expelled you had to come
back to finish yes? And were you able to come
back to finish yes. You know, if you had a grandson,
what would be your advice if they, you know, if
they felt like jumping into activism.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
The young people are the one could be the activists.
Activism is upont of what young people ought to do.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
That seems to be all our questions, sir, Thank you
so much.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Welcome back to the A building. As a way to
round out our story, wanted to look at protests as
a means for change today and in the future.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
We spoke with a friend and colleague, the CNN host, writer, documentarian,
and comedian w Comal Bell. So, come out. I really
appreciate you doing this podcast.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I mean, you know, there's a handful of people in
this business who have had my back and also have
made my work to look great and be great. You're
one of those people. So I try to make sure
I do right by those people. So thank you, Hans.
I appreciate that so much.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Do you think there's a risk, like, is there a
risk to protesting today? And do you think we're like
sort of witnessing the demise of protests in the United
States as a viable tool.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
I think, first of all, I certainly think there's a
risk to protesting day, specifically because the world is burning.
Like I think there's a the risk is probably not
never been higher, but hasn't been this high in a
long time, because they will literally just take you if
you did nothing, and you'll look up and be an
l Salvador, or they will just detain you downtown and
then a sudden you have to become a news story.
(13:20):
And like there's some veteran who just got wasn't people
are getting scooped and part even protesting right now. We
have a whole bunch of people here who shut down
the Bay Bridge during a protest not that long ago,
and they're being prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
law and oh thousands of dollars and like fees and
it's legal fees, and they're like not legal fees, but
they're being sued for all this money. And it's like,
(13:41):
these are just people who are like just young people
who went out to protest. So I think that that
in some sense, it's like I said, it's in fact,
they've never been higher. Let's not be hyperbolic. There's also
different type of protests we can go to war wards,
Like there's a protest to day in the park, let's
all go bring your signs, blah blah blah. But then
there's a kind of protest that that people do where
(14:02):
it's like, let's shut the bridge down. And I think
those kind of protests are more dangerous down than have
been in years.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
What do you think is a sort of prescription when
you look at you know, young people are increasingly just
satisfied with just the entire political system, What do you
think is effective for them? Like, based on your observations
of doing your show and your stand up and seeing
so many different parts of the country and your knowledge
of history, what do you think is prescriptive for them
(14:30):
that's effective.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I mean, the thing that I tell you all the
time is that we all need to be engaged in
pushing back against against fascism that exists in this country.
Now it's not like it's not creepy, it is crept
And if you can't do anything, start locally, like figure
out some cause in your community. And so for some
people that's maybe shutting down the bridge, but for most
(14:52):
of that it's like I'm gonna go volunt you at
the Indian's Rights Organization and stuff envelopes for an hour.
But you gotta do something because if you do nothing,
you're going to get exactly what you deserve. So I
would say young people are I think more involved now
than they probably have been before because they're more connected
through social media. But I think the prescription is so
like just it. Everybody doesn't have to be running at
(15:13):
the gates, running at the gates with a maltiv cocktail.
Some people have to be like Hey, my neighbor who's
afraid to go outside? Can I make you a cast role?
And so I think we have to understand that there's
multiple ways to do this. And also whatever you do
this year, you need to do a little more next year.
There's no different than like working out. You got to
keep raising your standard or of what is of what
(15:34):
you can do to stand up to this because because
because they're not they're like the New England Patriots, they're
not taking any days off, no grind.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
Based on sort of kind of what you just said,
looking back at the sixty nine takeover the building, like
what's your conclusion about how it ended for them? Like
what's your how would you describe that?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I mean, it's it's hard to like it. It's hard
for us now to look back that time and go,
here's what I would have done. I mean, it's I
think it's foolish because I think there's a way in
which we might be approaching to that again where some
people just start to explode and go I gotta do something.
So I think the idea that you put yourself on
the line to shake up the status quo, especially in
place like Morehouse where it's like we can all just
(16:18):
be fine here? You know, I think that's a big deal.
I think sometimes we want to know for those people,
but what was your plan after that? And a lot
of times they're like, we didn't get that far. Next
to our list was destroy the system, you know. So
I think sometimes we can look back on history and
be like, why I would have done it differently? And
I think the important thing is like, then do it
differently now. Like I think I really understand and really
(16:42):
respect when young people are like, I've had enough, but
I haven't actually built out the nineteen point plan yet.
It's a Kaepernick thing. I don't. I don't. People are
as like, well what do you like? You know, people
like this happens all the time. You go to the
no Kings protest, Well, what does it do? Doesn't do anything? Yeah? Yeah,
But for some people that's their million protests and they're
not and it's not gonna do anything. But for some
(17:04):
people say first protests and they go, oh, I'm going
to engage in acivism now, so stop expecting everything to
solve every problem. I think a lot of times we gaslight,
we gaslight things like that to go would it accomplish? Well? Yeah,
but if you feel like it accomplished nothing, then you
can stay home. All we can do is be inspired
by the things by these actions that have been done
in the past like that, and also learn from whatever
(17:26):
mistakes we see and then do it differently now instead
of criticizing them back then, like instead of like, you know, well,
if I've been Harry Tubman, okay, first of all, I
would have had a car. Okay, I'd have had a
big truck I could Okay, you.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Know, do you think we have an appropriate context of
the legacy of Doctor King like night now in twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
It's funny because I I'm doing a thing in my
standing back right now where I where I real list
of things early in the show that I'm like, look,
I don't have jokes for everything, but I just want
to make sure you take some lessons with you and
and take some homework assignments with you, and you know,
so I don't have it so and it's like about
two or three minutes long, and I just read these
things I wrote down, and some of them are definitely
(18:12):
meant to be funny, some of them are serious and
also have to be funny. Some of them are just
serious but one of the things I say because I
you know, I was on CNN for a year, so
I have a lot of white people in my crown,
and so I say this, I go next, Martin Luther
King Junior day only share the Martin Luther King Junior
quotes about American imperialism and the failure of the white moderate.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Oh try that, yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Do And it gets like some of the people you know, yeah,
because I go, we all know that I have a
dream speech. It was his hit single, we got It,
We got It. We don't need to hear that right now.
And it also challenges the white people to go, what's
the what is the white moderate because most of a
lot of them don't know it. The failure of the
white moderate being like, that's the biggest problem for the
black community is white moderate. Its ability. White moderate's basically
(18:57):
the ability to compromise on their on on operation because
they're comfortable and so. And also the thing is like,
right before he died, King was talking about American imperialism
because of the Vietnam War. So I'm sort of like,
so I think that's why I feel like my job
to go stop looking at that one thing and look
at the rest of this man's work, because he was
definitely whenever who knows. At some point him and Malcolm
(19:18):
Xican to meet each other and be like, yeah, you
were right, you too, you know what my bad? Yeah
exactly got a little bit like a like a rap
battle thing. Yeah, we were going at each other.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
But you know, and I think that that is at
the core of it, where it's just like he was
truly a radical, a radical that was murdered in cold Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
People act like he died of old age, Like it's
so funny to me, Like you realize he was thirty
nine right now, we don't even really consider that an adult.
Speaker 7 (19:52):
His ideas were so dangerous to society they felt that
he should be murdered for it. And and I know
west Coin is phrase like they you call it the
the Santa Clausification of doctor Yeah, right, that just kind
of if we can kind of sterilize the message it somehow,
and in so many ways, ironically, it is designed to
(20:13):
appease the white moderates, where it's like, look, I like
Doctor King, you know, I like some of the things
he said in the speeches, and you know, I go
to a sofu place on MLK weekend, and I'm doing
everything I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
They don't. They ordered door, door dash, they don't.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
That's the wrong part of town, right, they don't go there.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
But I think the other thing is that, yeah, that
we I mean, you know, for me, if you sort
of only have a march on Washington MLK in your head,
just watch that speech he gives the night before he's assassinated,
where he's like, tomorrow, I'm gonna be assassinated everybody. Look
you basically not the same guy. Yeah, it's over for me, everybody.
I'm I'm gonna be killed tomorrow. But anyway, you all,
(20:54):
here's whatever, here's what I want you to do.
Speaker 8 (20:55):
It is no longer to charge between violum saying no
unbalance in this world is nonvioleance on non existence.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
That is where we are today.
Speaker 8 (21:13):
Also in the human rights revolution, is something getting done
and done in a hurry to bring the colored peoples
of the world out of their long years of poverty,
their long years of curd and neglect.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
The whole world is doomed. All those evidence shows that
he was not popular when he died. When he was assassinated,
he was not a popular American figure.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
But again, the the I guess this unwillingness to revisit
or I mean, I guess so much of America right
now is ahistorical, and people say things that are just
categorically untrue that could be debunked with a tenth grade
level of education.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
You know what I mean, can be debunked in a
TikTok Just watch this fifteen second TikTok video, so you
can stop signing and dumb.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
But the compounding of that and and so much of
the chaos of the Trump administration where this kind of
like we're just going to keep saying shit, keep doing shit,
keep this mantling shit, make it impossible to have real
discourse with so much of the democracy is founded on.
So if you can kind of.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
Flood the streets with nonsense, it kind of it desensitizes
people to what, okay, is there actually anything we can
do to stop this?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
And also if you dismantled the social safety that you
can actually just let the streets flood with water because
there's nobody there to stop the floods and there's no
warning system to let people know that the bloods are coming.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Just this fascinating the time period that we're in and
how we should think about it. And I feel like
you're such an interesting figure to discuss this with because
I feel like, unlike so many of us, like you,
you go when you talk to people regardless of who
they are, and you meet them where they are. So
it's it's I'm curious as to how you see this
(23:15):
current where we are in, this sort of fascist neo
fascist state in America that that we're in. Are are
we are we going to escape the gravity of this
black hole known as this administration? Or are we are
we doomed for it to slowly rip us apart?
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I mean, so it's funny. I just put up the
next leg of my stand up tour and the date
for like Tulsa, Oklahoma, Oklahoma City, Louisville, Kentucky. I was like, damn,
there's not Atlanta here. There's not a there's not a
you know, there's not a New York on here. So
it's it's funny. I think sometimes I get too much
credit for talking with people. I was like, oh no,
(23:51):
this time, I'm actually gone to the places. Now these
are gonna be more blue spots in red states, but
they're still in red state. It's still I'm still not playing.
It's not all Burt, and so therefore you just hear
different conversations because you're in those spots. So what I
would say is this, I hear a lot of people
say things like we'll fix this in the midterms, and
I'm like, I don't think you're understanding how fast and
(24:12):
moving if you're assuming there's gonna be a midterm election. Yeah,
the one of the things I say on my list,
And again this one is like not really meant to
be funny, but it's just like again I sort of
mix things up. I'm like, it's just stop acting like
things are going to be okay. Like I'm not saying
you can't have plans with midterms, but also you need
to have a go bag, and you need to update
(24:33):
your passport, and you need to check on your neighbor
and you need to make sure that you have that
you download that app that lets you know ices in
your community that you have neighbors you want to help.
Speaker 9 (24:42):
And you need to check on the local public schools
to find out if there's anything they need to Oh you,
I can donate this to you or system my garage,
And you need to look into mutual a to find
out if there's people around you who need who need
a blanket and you have a blanket, and you know
what I mean, like you have to actually be working
today and also hoping that tomorrow will get here, because
it's just they're they're moving that fast. And I think
(25:03):
anybody who's like I see a lot of people are like, well,
fix it in the midterms.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Oh man, you.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
Really that's what they're willing to have a midterms?
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, because that's why they probably thought it in World
War two Germany too.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
Fix It's a really good point. And then in Miami,
the city council, the mayor gave themselves an extra year.
They just canceled the election.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Exactly exactly, and that and that's a good There's so
much news that I remember that, and I forgot about it,
And yet that's a big deal.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
The reason you forgot about it is because it's because
nobody in Miami flooded the streets and protests and said
you're not going to do this, Like that's because what
are you supposed to do where you're living?
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Like you know what I'm saying, there's nothing you could
do for people in Miami. I'll be like, yeah, yeah,
you could cancel elections, but you're not going to be mayor. Yeah, like,
we'll just we'll stop showing up to work. Guess what,
We're not gonna shot up to work now. Yeah, you know,
work that. And then and then I went to one
of the episodes of United Ja. We went to Durra Dura,
which is right outside of Miami, and we did that
(26:03):
about Venezuelan Americans, in Venezuelans living in America, who many
are living illegally, and just about how Venezuela used to
be like a like a rich country with lots of
natural resources, and the wrong people took over, and then
people ended up using the money for napkins, like the
currency for napkins, and people were fighting in the streets
for water, like stealing water from people's homes, like getting
(26:24):
bucket like and and a lot of those Venezuelans, the
first of all, the first people moved to America in
Venezuela started to fall with the rich Venezuelans and they
moved to Miami area because it's a heavily Latino America
Latino community and those are some of the and those
the most trumpy Trump fan you'd ever meet. I met
in Durel, outside of Miami. They and I went to
(26:47):
a Venezuelans for Trump meeting and then and I was like,
but why do you like him so much? And they said,
because he said he's gonna help Venezuelan. And those literally
some of those same people I interviewed were on news
recently going like President Trump, you're you're you're disupporting me,
You're kidnapping our people. Yeah, what is it about? This
is my last question? What is it about the cause.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
I don't want to say the American psyche, but what
is it about people living in America, whether or not
they identify as American citizens or whatever? What is it
about them that that makes them so susceptible to the
obvious deceptions of our politicians.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
A lot of those people who come to move here
from other countries, whether whether quote unquote legally or quote
unquote illegally, are are coming here because we have exported
the idea of the American dream of like you can
come here and make and make anything happen you want to.
And then when they come here, even from African countries,
they learn as long as you're not black, you have
(27:46):
a higher chance of getting a bank loaned. Oh, and
also you have an easier chance of starting a business
if you're not if you're not a black American. So
they come here and they start business and they start
to make some money, or or they just get seduced
by idea of like I think, when I make money,
I want to make sure I keep my money, And
the Republicans are like, oh, we'll help you do that,
not understanding you're never going to be us, but they
(28:07):
get seduced by the idea that the Republican Party has
has exported. Oh you want the American dream. We're the
part of the American dream. And then they hear things
like even though I'm paying taxes out my ass when
i'm rich, I don't want to pay taxes. And the
Republicans said, when I become rich, but you'll never go
come then I won't have to pay a lot of taxes.
America used race as a way to make poor white
people feel better about themselves, like at least I'm not
(28:29):
that guy.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Welcome ou. I can't thank the man.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
I mean, I can't thank you enough for so many reasons.
And I you know, I've made jokes about it, but
like when I say that Hans Charles got me through
that talk, I would just like my eyes would be wide.
I'm like, what do I get involved in? And you
would just be like, we got this. I was like, okay,
he said, we got this, So I'm happy to be here. Yeah,
this is You gave us some gold. I really appreciate it.
(28:54):
Thank you man, Thank you.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
We want to thank you for taking the time to
listen to our story. And as Bob Marley once said,
the duty of youth is to challenge corruption.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
We want to leave you with some form of hope
and inspiration. So here's a great inspiring Medeeba Nelson Mandella.
Speaker 10 (29:13):
So I say to the youth of today, to the dreamers,
to the ones who have been silenced, rejected, or overlooked,
walk your path with dignity, lift your voice with integrity,
and serve not just your ambition but a cause greater
(29:39):
than yourself. I believe in you, I believe in tomorrow,
and I believe that the long walk continues, not just
for me, but for all of us.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
The A Building is produced by Imagine Audio for iHeart Podcasts.
It is written and hosted by me, Hans Charles and
my co host menelec La Mumba.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
It is executive produced by Karl Welker and Nathan Klope,
me Mandelik Lamomba and Hans Charles.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts ar Katrina Norville and Nikki Torre.
Marketing lead is David Wasserman.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
It is produced, directed, and edited by Timothy Fernara with
producer John Asanti, Sound design and music by Alloy Trex.
Speaker 5 (30:27):
And special thanks to April Ryan, Doctor, Elia Davis, Kim
vc Ada, Bobbino and James Early. If you enjoyed this episode,
be sure to rate and review the A Building on
Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
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