March 3, 2026 • 51 mins
Matt Doyle and Tab Ramos dive into the dual-national panic surrounding Noahkai Banks, break down Johnny Cardoso starring in the UEFA Champions League for Atlético Madrid, and examine how Weston McKennie’s new four-year contract with Juventus could shape his role with the USMNT moving forward.
They then rank their Top 5 Most Underrated USMNT players of the last 40 years, featuring names like Jermaine Jones and Benny Feilhaber, along with a few very familiar picks for Inside American Soccer listeners.
Plus, Tab offers a timely and personal look back at the United States vs. Iran match at the 1998 FIFA World Cup, sharing his inside perspective on one of the most politically and emotionally charged games in U.S. Soccer history.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We got together in the center of the field and
we did a single picture. Instead of having our own
team picture, we did a single picture in which both
teams were together, one American one Irani, one American one Irani.
And I think it was a great moment. I think
not just for our federation and for around but I
think for the world to see that. You know, we're
just athletes trying to bring people together.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Greetings, folks, and welcome to Inside American Soccer. I'm Matt Doyle,
the armchair analyst, filling in for Tom Bogert for a
couple more weeks than I am, joined as always by
my friend and yours, tab Ramos, one of the greatest
players in US men's national team history, veteran of three
World Cups, and ready to chop it up on a
(00:47):
Tuesday morning, talking about what's happening in the world of
the US men's national team tap with one hundred days
left until the World Cup begins.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, it's getting exciting, right. MLS is rolling full time now.
We have the Champions League getting to its final stages,
which is the most exciting time for that, and we
have American players playing everywhere and some of them surprising
us and some of some of them falling behind. So
we'll have a little bit of a discussion about both
(01:17):
of those scenarios.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Who are you rooting for in the Champions League? Like,
do you have a team that because obviously we're all Betty's.
If they ever got to the round of sixteen, you
would be over the moon and that would be your club.
But like, is there, you know, barring that, is there
a team that you're kind of supporting these days or
long term?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Well, I mean, yeah, Betty's, I think is a good
is a good call. They actually disappointed me this weekend
because they were winning the derby two zero at halftime
and I actually turned the game and they ended up
tying to to at home to Sevilla, which is not
good in terms of Champions League. So my mom's family
is from Napoli, so Napoli is always my my sort
(01:57):
of my second team. But from when I was little,
my dad made me a sort of a Real Madrid fan,
from the time of when Juan Intel played for Real Madrid,
so that's a long time that most people won't remember.
But yeah, I would say Real Madrid is probably the
team that I support the most, although obviously not a
good year for them, and I think they only they
(02:18):
likely only have a couple of weeks left. But I'll
I'm traveling actually to Madrid next week to the Madrid
Man City game, so I'm gonna be there at that game.
It should be fun.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, it's a huge one. It's become look man anytime
it's pet versus Real Madrid. It is a matchup laden
with subtext and text. That's one of the ones that
I will be watching as well. But of course we
are here to talk about US men's national team. Unfortunately
that does not apply to Manchester City or Real Madrid
(02:50):
these days. Not yet. Anyway, we do have some very
talented teenagers coming through this syst who made one day
move to one of those two teams, and one of
them that will be talking about so is Noahkai Banks,
the German American playing big minutes, nineteen year old center
back for Augsburg playing big minutes in the Bundesliga. A
little bit of a dual national panic happening with him.
(03:13):
And then Wes McKenny finally gets a new contract for
Juventus after proving again and again and again that he's
irreplaceable for that team. We'll also talk the most underrated
US men's national team players of the past forty years,
a lot of guys that Tab played with back in
the day who maybe newer fans don't quite remember that well,
(03:34):
but also some of the newer guys more recent vintage.
And will also go inside the locker room with Tab
and discuss one of the most tension filled matches he
ever took part in with the US against Iran in
the nineteen ninety eight World Cup. But first let's get
into that US news and we'll start with Noah Kai Banks.
(03:55):
He had insists and then after the game he mentions
that national status, which honestly I had not heard him
talk about. Let me give you the quote, even though
playing out a World Cup is a dream, I don't
want to make my decision dependent on a World Cup,
is what he told Sky Sports Germany. I feel connected
to both nations, meaning the US and Germany. And the
(04:19):
context of that question was basically, if you're promised a
World Cup spot with the US, will you commit to
the US? And I think Toddy he gave him ature answer,
but I'm hoping that he'll commit to the US because
he's really good.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, I think he went into depth, likely a little
bit more than he wanted to on that answer. He
probably should have said, I'm leaving old doors open, you know,
which is what every player says all the time. In
that that means that you're not leaning either way. I
think with the way he phrased that, it's sort of
(04:55):
if I had to translate that, I would say he
just said, even if I get called for the US
to play in the World Cup, if I have a
chance to play for Germany, I will play for Germany instead.
That's how I That's how I read that, and so
that's the feel I got from that. And that's a
little bit scary, because you know, I was in the
(05:15):
middle of that fight in the in the mid tens.
Let's say, when we were fighting, you get players from
you know that wanted to go play for Mexico, you know,
the the Ledesmas of the world back then, and the
you know, Alex Mendez and these guys, and it was
a tough battle when Mexico was a little bit ahead
of us, and we felt like, you know, we really
(05:36):
had a Peppi being another one. We felt like we
really had to convince them. And I feel like Noah
kai bank Is by what he said, I feel like
now we need to convince him it's not a great
place to be. But there's just all it means is
that we have a little bit more homework to do,
that's all.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah. Thirty five years ago, Thomas Dooley kind of open
the door for German Americans to play a significant role
with the US national team. What was it like into
and to be clear, very different situation. Thomas Dooley was
a veteran I think it was what twenty nine years
old when he first got capped for the US, and
(06:16):
he was good enough to have been in a couple
Germany camps, but he's not going to play over low Darmataeus.
What was it like integrating him into that group that
had been so tight knit and so I don't want
to say closed off, but like it was basically a
bunch of American college kids together for nineteen ninety and
then by nineteen ninety four came around guys like Thomas
(06:38):
Dooley and Ernie Stewart had suddenly become part of the team.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, you know, I think it was an easy transition actually,
because it was we were a little bit in awe
in all of having guys coming from overseas who had
had a lot of experience. So Thomas Dooley had played
for kaisers Loud and already I think Leverkusen as well.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
In high Seed. Yeah, right, so he.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Had succeeded at the highest level and for US to
have a player like that, we never really thought of
Thomas being a foreigner when.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
He was with us.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
He was always put in. He always had a smile
in his face. He wanted to you know, he worked
hard every day. He didn't. He made it known that
this is what he really wanted. So he never really
he was never really walking a line. And I think
it might be because of what you just said. It
might be because of the age. Right at that age,
he knew that it was this or nothing. Maybe, but
(07:32):
we never felt like, oh, we have to impress Thomas
because he's either going to play for US or he's
going to play for Germany. I think he always made
it known that this is what he always wanted, and
he had a lot of respect for the US and
US flag and we always felt like he was part
and that it was really easy to have him on board.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah. No, Kai Banks obviously at different stage in his career,
just nineteen years old. He talked about being in US camp.
He was back, he was in camp back in September,
didn't play, and then wasn't in the subsequent camps and
in October and November. But he talked about adjusting and
he specifically said the guys helped me to get into
the team and into the training. It was incredible, to
(08:12):
be honest, the big guys like Christian koulisk or Tim Waya,
we maybe don't expect it, but it's been great saying
that the leadership from the veterans in this US squad
actually data make him feel welcome. So look, man, I
have my fingers crossed. It's weird to have to recruit,
right you. Ideally it's everybody who is in the roster
(08:36):
on the team are guys who dreamed of wearing those
colors and those colors alone. But that's not reality. Reality
is that dual nationals everywhere from Argentina to Italy, to
England to Turkey to the US in Mexico. You have
to recruit and you have to kind of make it
(08:56):
the culture of the team to blend all of these
guys with different backs grounds together, So for me to like,
I really want Punch to call him for the camp
coming this month. I will be disappointed if he doesn't.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, well, here's the other point that I think he's
deserving of a call at this point, you know. So,
I mean, regardless of what he said, I thought he
had a real good chance of getting called this camp anyway,
and so I'm hoping that that Poschettino in this case
follows through and regardless of what, you know, what he mentioned,
what Noa Kaite mentioned to the to the press, I
(09:35):
think he should be in anyway. And I think, you know,
and and maybe if you're a Puschettino, you're giving yourself
a better chance by having him in camp and by
being able to discuss with him in the future a
little bit as a young player. And that's something that
likely no Kaite Banks would like to hear. So I
think it would benefit everyone if if he gets to
call anyway, because you know, he deserves it.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yeah. Another guy who is earned himself a call. I
think it is Johnny Cardoso, who struggled the first half
of the year with Atletico Madrid obviously had some injuries
as well, but has played well recently Athletier into the
Champions League Round of sixteen. They also have the second
leg of Copa del Rey against Barcelona coming up, and
(10:20):
they thrashed Barcelona four nil in that first leg. He
has played much better for club than he has for country.
I mean, he's got about twenty caps with the US,
and I can't think of one in which he was
particularly compelling. Is this window we expect him to be
(10:42):
on the roster even though he has kind of lost
the backup job defensive midfield, like other guys have clearly
passed him in Pochettino's eyes, But like A, does he
need to be there regardless? And B should he start?
Should he start in these games so that Pachkin get
a sense for Okay, can he translate what he does
(11:03):
with Atluti to the US national team because he hasn't
so far.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
And those are all good points. So I'll start with
the beginning, and which you said, you know, if he's
played twenty games, and that actually shocks me because I
can't even think of the like twenty games, because you're right,
I mean, we all remember one play that he made
and it wasn't a good one, right, And that's the
play against Turkey. That's what we're thinking about when we
(11:28):
think of him playing for the national team, which is
really unfortunate, only not because a player couldn't make that mistake,
but only because he hasn't had a bunch of other
moments that where we could say, well, he did that,
but look at all of these things, so you're absolutely right.
For the national team, he has not been at that level.
(11:50):
I think the important part at this point is that
he's playing for one of the top teams in the
Champions League. I mean, there's no way to hide that.
If you had to pick the top fifteen teams in
the world, Athletico Madrid would be up there likely, and
he started for them, and he started for them in
a big game in the Champions League, and he scored
the winning goal, by the way, So we can't brush
(12:11):
that aside and think that because he didn't do well
for the national team in the past, that this doesn't
have the value. I think this has incredible value. I think,
as I mentioned to you to everyone here a couple
of shows ago, when we were talking about Balligan and
the importance of just being a starter in those teams, right,
(12:31):
he's starting for one of the top teams in the
world and playing a significant role in a significant game
that has a lot of money at stake for the club,
and he did well in it. By the way, he
didn't play great at that in that game. He was okay,
but he scored a great goal, which obviously helps him
a lot. But I think we have to value that,
(12:53):
and because of that, I think he's deserving of a
call and given other chances to succeed, likely the national.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Team, he gets the call. What happens if he's not
starting in the first game, the first friendly, the US
player in this window, Does that tell you something?
Speaker 1 (13:11):
No, not really, because you know Maurico Pozettino may, of course,
as a coach, he's already thinking of the starting eleven,
right and the starting eleven may not include him anyway,
I think you want to have, though, on the bench,
someone that you think is not going to be scared
to play in a big game. And by the way,
(13:31):
no player is scared. But I think you know what
I'm saying by that, someone that's not going to have
the nerves because we're playing you know, Portugal and Belgium,
like you're starting to play big teams now, and I
think when you look at us playing big teams where
and by big teams, I mean teams that have an
excellent player in every position, an excellent, skillful, mature player
(13:56):
in every single position. And I think Johnny Cardoso fits
into that role because he's doing that in the Champions
League he's playing, and by the way, he's doing that
in practice every day. Because Athletical Madrid's roster can match
up with a lot of rosters from around the world
from the top team, so I think it would be
a good call to have him in and regardless of
(14:17):
whether he starts or not, I think it would be
good to give him some minutes to allow him to
gain some confidence with the US uniform.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
On an excellent skillful player in every position for Juventus,
that's just cloning Weston McKenny. Eleven times. He has played
just about every position for You've a over the years,
and it seems like every year we have talked about
him needing to prove himself in a new spot for
(14:46):
a new coach, and finally this week it happened. Westin
McKenny got a four year contract from Juventus. I think
it's four point seven million a year net. Nice money
if you can get it, So congratulations to him. He's
been playing mostly as a number ten lately and kind
(15:06):
of like a bots arriving number ten, but he does
have that ability to sort of unlock the defense with
a one touch pass. Has shown that, you know, put
that to good use recently. Happy for him as a
player and a person. What's your take on this situation, tab,
Is this the ideal outcome for him?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Well, the last game, I think the last Champions League
game they played, he started a left back and then
did the game at right back. So but yeah, you're right,
he plays number ten most of the time. So I
just don't think there's many players in the world who
can do all of that and do it well right. So,
and by well, I mean he doesn't look out of position, right,
(15:48):
because he does make, you know, some mistakes playing in
particularly left back. He didn't look comfortable there to me.
But anyway, Yeah, this surprises me, to be honest, because
I really thought that with what he had done at
Juventus that the door was completely open for him to
return to the EPL and be in in a top
(16:12):
let's say, mid table and higher team in the EPL.
And I'm a little bit surprised that that didn't happen.
I think the important party is he's at a great
club that finally loves him. You know, it took so
long for the club to fall in love with him,
but they have and I'm happy to see that and
I'm happy for him. And by the way, four point
(16:34):
seven million a year, I think you can live on that.
So I think he's gonna be okay.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, yeah, it probably goes pretty far in Turin. I
like this more. I like him being a centerpiece on
this team and at that salary. He is going to
be a centerpiece for this team. He's gonna be one
of the leaders for a team that is going to
be competing at the top of Syria, trying to win
(16:58):
trophies every single year, rather than going to the primary
league and being a team that's just trying to break
into the top six. I think it's better for him
for his like for leadership reasons with the team, because
Western as a leader for the US has been gregarious
and he's you know, body language monster, but he's never
(17:19):
been the guy who's like, Okay, this team is going
to revolve around me. And I think for the US
to hit its peak this group, they kind of need
him to be that. They need him to be running
the show in midfield emotionally and tactically, and I think
this puts him in a good spot to actually learn
(17:40):
those skills.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
You could be right about that. I'll give you the
other side of that. The other side of that is that,
you know, Juventus signs a couple other skillful midfielders and
now he's stuck playing wide somewhere. Although you know, although
they're obviously you know, paying them enough money to have
him on the field every day, and they're going to
need to do that because it's not like Juventus, you know,
(18:03):
financially it can be so competitive that they can afford
to have a player making this kind of money sitting
on the bench. Let's just say that. Yeah, you know,
the part that scares me about his situation at Juventus
is that he still doesn't really have a position. And
so this this makes me recall, you know, back when
(18:25):
I was playing in Spain, Jorgey Dallas Sandro is, you know,
one of my coaches who's you know, one of my
great coaches who played you know, he coached Athletico Madrid
and a lot of big clubs. After he left Betty's.
He said to me that he didn't like players that
were a little bit good at everything, you know, he
liked players who were really good in one position because
he knew that if he bought an expert at right wing,
(18:46):
that that right winger was going to be a right
winger and was going to deliver. And so I'm not
sure if that's getting my point across, but that's where
I am with with Weston right because even when we
think about Weston playing for our national team, were thinking, okay,
well he played a little deeper in midfield, will he
be the ten? Will Mariso Pochetino put him wide? Because
(19:08):
he wants to have him on the field, And I'd
rather see someone who's really good at one role. And
that could be an issue at Juventus down the road
in particular, because as we know, coaches don't last very long,
and as a new coach comes in, they'll have their
own players and where do you fall after that? So
a little bit by the way, great move, great contract,
(19:30):
but a little bit of a scary situation because I'm
just not seeing the exact position for him.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Let's keep our fingers crossed that it all works out
that he does get all those minutes in central midfield,
whether it's as an eight or a ten. I think
those are probably his two best spots. But for us,
it's time for a break. We'll be right back with
our rankings the top five most underrated US men's national
team players of the past forty years, and we're gonna
(19:59):
ad you to rate, review, and subscribe to Inside American
Soccer with Tom Boger at tab Ramos wherever you get
your podcasts. All right, folks, welcome back to Inside American Soccer.
(20:21):
I'm Matt Doyle here with Tabramos and we're doing our
inside rankings. It's a pretty new segment that we have
decided to weave into the show, where Tab and I
get to go through our top fives of various things
in and around US soccer. And we're going back at
the time machine a little bit for this one. Tab
We're going to take a look at our most underrated
(20:43):
US men's national team players of the past forty years.
And I am going to start out my number five
is a dual national, a playmaker who has South American roots,
really good on the ball, not necessarily a goal scorer,
(21:05):
and not tab Ramos. I'm talking about Benny Feilhaber, who
came out of nowhere in the actually was caught caught
the eye of Ziggi Schmid. Back when Benny was walking
on to U c l A, Ziggy put him in
the U twenty national team. Nobody had any idea who
this kid was. Man marked Messi at the U twenty
(21:29):
World Cup in a game that the US won. That
was the only loss that Argentina suffered even that U
twenty World Cup. Messi of course went on to win
the Golden Boot and Golden Ball and all that, and
then went on to have a really kind of weird
club career. But for the national team to have whenever
(21:50):
he played, he was so good, and I remembered running
the numbers on it, and the US's plus minus when
he was on the field was absurd. It was because
he unlocked so much for Landon and Clint and Josie,
and he also allowed, like Michael Bradley to be more
of a sort of a cover the entire field, while
Benny would sort of just run the show and organize.
(22:13):
I loved watching him play, but he only ended up
with about forty caps, and that always disappointed me.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, you know, it's a good call. Definitely, a great
player in midfield made everybody else around them better, And
I think that's that's what you're saying. And I think
in the spirit of what we're putting together here, we're
talking about guys that maybe deserved a little bit more. Yet,
I do feel like, you know, forty caps for the
national team is significant. You know, it's it's not a
(22:43):
couple of caps. He did play a significant role on
the team, and I think because of his position, he
was likely always going to be a little bit of
a secondary type of supportive player. So I do agree
with you Benny was a great player and one that
I think, you know, in particular, I think he ended
in Kansas City Rights, so he ended with a good
(23:06):
career there, and I think a lot of people following
him there, and I think he in general had a
good career, and overall, I think forty caps is it's
a significant role in a player that certainly, you know,
when they put together a Hall of Fame type list,
you know, the name is one that comes up.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
The goal he scored against Mexico in the two thousand
and seven Gold Cup Final, one of the all time
great goals. The US has ever scored, period, but especially
coming against that team in a final. And then, of
course the play he makes against Spain in the Confederation's
Cup semi final to set up Clint Dempsey's shocking goal
(23:46):
in that one that was you know, those are the
two career highlights for Benny feil Hobber with the national team.
His ability to get out of that Spanish press in
central midfield and then make a positive play and lead
to one of the most famous wins in US national
team history. And a player I just really liked watching.
(24:08):
I also really liked watching the two guys that you
have listed at number five, because your top five is
actually a top six.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
It is a top six. But I will I'll have
the two at number five tide, just as I did
last week on our other list. I had a little
bit of a category here. You know. John O'Brien is
a player that you know, you've heard people like Brian
dun Seth who we've had on the show, uh and
(24:38):
and Clint Mathews who we've had on the show talk
a little bit about the quality that he had. You know,
unfortunately he had a lot of injuries, but he was
a player one of the first ones to go to
i AX and actually make a difference.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
He was a.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Great midfield sort of leader, even as at at a
young age. I think I recalled telling the Historian, which
you know I played right towards the end of my career.
You know, he came on on the team and I
remember I lost the ball in midfield and he said
something to me, and I was, you know, I was.
I was impressed by the fact that such a young
(25:15):
player could kind of correct me, and he had that
type of leadership personality on the field, and so yeah,
you know, John O'Brien was a great player. I will
also add the next one, which is Rick Davis. You know,
Rick Davis is a great connector I think from the
past to the present. Rick was one that played, you know,
(25:38):
in the old days in the NASL for the Cosmos
at first one was one one of the few Americans
who actually excelled in the NASL, which was very difficult
because the NASL was basically mostly foreigners. And he was
one of the ones that played a significant role and
then connected us sort of to the future.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
He was on the nineteen eighty eight Olympic team, but
he was a very good player, great skill in the
center of the field, rarely made a mistake, could see
the field really well, and I had all the skills
of a great player. Unfortunately, the reason I'm thinking he's
underrated is because he played at a time but we
(26:17):
really ended up having the bulk of his let's say,
the best part of his career was at a time
when we didn't really have a league, and because of that,
I think most people won't know him.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah. The same thing applies to the guy who I
have number four on my list, teammate of yours in
nineteen ninety Mike Wendishman, classy left footed defender. I think
he'd be a sort of a Tim Reen comparison if
you had to, you know, plug and play him today.
He was he the captain in nineteen ninety. Yeah, he
(26:51):
was a captain for you guys in nineteen ninety and
then he retired right after that. He could have could
have kept going like he would have been good for
it least a couple of years in MLS, but he
called it quits. I think he played in footsal as
well until about ninety two. I just remember watching that
team and the way he had a knack for calming
(27:14):
the game down from the back, which was a developing
trait among American defenders at that time. Tip.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Yeah, and I'm really gonna add only one thing. I
think he had the personality. You know, at times we
mentioned on this show how I feel like I was
fortunate because I was surrounded at that time with although
not the best players we've ever had, I think the
players that had the strongest personality because we needed it.
(27:45):
We really were nobodies at the time, and we had
to play against the best teams in the world. And
yet I think no one was scared, and I think
no one represented that better than Mike Wendishman. And I
think that's why he was the captain of the team.
He was a guy that was never scared, had always
you know, pushed the team and and because of that,
I think it was, you know, one of the one
(28:06):
of the key figures for the sort of the turn
of soccer in the country. So I think this is
a great call.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Is it? Team tim reim comparison? The right one in
your mind? Is that the player, that modern player that
Mike reminds you of the most, or someone else come
to mind.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, I mean I can't, I can't think of anyone
else I would come to mind, but I would see
Mike Wendishman as likely not quite Let's let's just say
Tim's Ream's best moments, and I think Mike Wendishman didn't
quite have the skill set that Tim Reim had, you know,
in terms of playing out of the back, let's say.
(28:46):
But I also think that Mike Wendishman was a little
bit tougher when it came to like tackles and and
just having the personality to push guys around. I think
he was a little bit more of that.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Take us to your number four on the list.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
So my number four, I'm going to make it really
short because this was a guest on our show a
couple of weeks ago, and that's Clint Mathis to me,
one of the best players to have ever played the game,
one of the best players to have ever put on
a national team uniform. Yet if you were to do
a poll of you know, one hundred top journalists likely
(29:21):
or fans who have watched the national team over years,
likely none of them will put Clint Mathis on the
list of top players. And I think because of that,
I say he's one of the most underrated players.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, his prime was very short for the national team,
but it was spectacular the original Dosa Sero. Like Gerafria
against Mexico in Ohio. Clint comes on for an injured
Brian McBride about twenty twenty five minutes into that game,
or actually Clint came on for Claudio. Claudio and Brian
(29:55):
both got injured and Clint and Josh Wolf both came
on changed the game. Clint played it incredible, like forty
yard outside of the boot Travella through ball to Josh
that led to the first goal, and then, of course,
two years later he scores one of the great goals
that the US has ever scored in the World Cup.
(30:17):
He had it all to time, He really did. He
was my favorite player to watch for a couple of years.
There injuries and maybe a little bit off field stuff
cut his career short, which was a shamee, But man,
he left an impression. The guy who I have number
three on my list did not really leave an impression
(30:37):
for anybody, and that's kind of a compliment. For center back,
I have Matt Beesler, who was rock solid during that
twenty fourteen World Cup qualifying cycle. He was actually ahead
of Tim Ring in the center back depth chart. Their
same age played the same position. Matt Beeesler and Tim
Rim played it similarly. I think that Beaesler was tougher
(30:59):
in the tackle at that point in time and an organizer,
a guy who just like kept his head down, did
not make mistakes. Unfortunately for him, the one thing we
all remember is him getting absolutely trucked by Romelo Vukaku
against Belchium in that round of sixteen game. But he
met He was just like the quintessential keep the floor
(31:20):
high and keep the ball moving center back.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah, you know, there's there's no better compliment for a defender.
And this is a great point that you start with
with with Matt Beezler because obviously I was Urgen Klinsman's
assistant coach in that twenty fourteen World Cups. I know
Matt really well first as a person, which is, you know,
great person, great guy, makes the whole team better, liked
(31:44):
by everyone. And I know that a lot of fans
are like, oh, yeah, well because he liked him doesn't
mean he's good, no, But on top of it, he's good.
And I think there's no better compliment for a defender
who had such a long career than to say, you
don't remember a lot of what he did. And and
that's why this is a great call, because that was
Matt Beesler, you know. And and by the way, it
(32:06):
is he still playing in Kansas City. It seemed like
he just went on and on, right, it never ended
because it was the same in his professional career. You don't,
you don't, actually, and I know you you think about
that play with Lukaku, But Lukaku did that to everyone, really,
I mean the best Lukaku did that, you know, to
the best player, best defenders in the world. So I
(32:28):
agree with you. Matt was one of those guys. But
that was that was his role. And I think if Matt,
you know, was still playing, he would still be the
same guy, the guy that didn't make the mistakes and
the guy that that uh but but but the guy
that you had on your starting team always right. And
so because of that, I think, you know, Matt is
certainly deserving of that.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Another guy from that era is your number three.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Well my number, my number three I can't talk enough
about because Jermaine Jones has been one of my favorite
players of all time. Matter of fact, if I had
if I had to say, you know, name me a
top ten US players of all time, It'd be hard
for me not to put them there because I knew personally,
(33:14):
I saw every day what he could do. He was
one of the first US players to be not only
hard on the tackle, extremely hard on the tackle, extremely
intense mentally on the field, but could also deliver a
ball with the right foot or left foot over sixty
(33:35):
yards to somebody's chest or on somebody's run. And I
think that's a quality that we didn't have Americans. We
didn't have other Americans that could do that. You know.
Sometimes when I talked about Clint Mathis, I talked about
the fact that he could take a free kick with
the right foot or the left foot, which is something
that most people can't do, But then he had a
(33:55):
thousand other qualities. Jermaine Jones was another one of those
players that I think most people will remember Jermaine for
just being a hard player, but Jermaine was tremendously skillful,
and he had all of the qualities of a top
notch either eight or six. He could do both, but
he was a heavyweight on the field playing against lightweights,
(34:17):
and I loved everything about him.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah, it's the opposite of Matt Beaesler. Right, you don't
remember the players from Matt Beeesler. You remember a lot
of what Jermaine did. Nothing more than that that goal
against Portugal. He absolutely laced that one. I'm going to
go back about ten years before that for my number
two pick, Chris Armis. And the reason people don't really
(34:40):
remember Chris Armis as a national team players because he
the poor guy, had the worst luck. He got injured
right towards acl right before the two thousand and two
World Cup. Now that opened the door for Pablo Mastroeni,
who went on to have a fantastic World Cup and
a fantastic career, but he was behind Chris Armis in
the depth chart, and then he was Chris Armis again
(35:01):
in two thousand and six, and Chris Armas got injured
again in two thousand and six. But in between all
of those tough qualifiers, you go down to Guatemala, you
go down to San Pedro Sula, you go to Mexico City.
It was Chris Armis was basically the first name on
Bruce Arena's team sheet, and he was nasty to play against.
(35:22):
I remember in nineteen ninety nine it was one of
his first caps. They were playing the US for playing
in the Confederations Cup against Germany, and Andreas Mueller afterwards said,
no man with children should have to play against that guy.
About Chris Armis and that is about that is about
the best compliment you could ever give a defensive midfielder.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Tap Yeah, no question. You know, Chris was as tough
as they came, but the opposite of Jermaine Jones, right
because although he was really tough and he can get
into tackles, and obviously there was you know, think about
how long he was on the national team and obviously
unfortunately he didn't play in the two World Cubs, which
you're right, that's what most people will remember. He still
(36:08):
had a long national team career and he's also one
of those guys that you can't think about mistakes that
he made when he played. But here's the difference with
Chris Armis is that he would be as tough as
they come, but yet you wanted to be his friend,
right because you know Chris Armis as like if you know,
for the people who are fortunate enough like myself to
(36:31):
know him as a person, he's one of the nicest
guys you'll ever meet, right, And although he was one
of the toughest players, he was a super nice guy.
And again another guy that was great to the locker room.
Now and I'm seeing a little bit of your list,
you know, with a bunch of guys who who were,
you know, the end of the day, hard guys on
the field and nice guys off the field, and I
(36:53):
think certainly Chris Armis was one of those. And by
the way, I think it's important to mention that, you know,
it's so hard to play in a World Cup because
so many things have to go right. You have to
not only be a consistent player for the national team,
but come into June of that every four years playing
well enough to go to it and not get injured
(37:14):
at the same time, so so many things have to
go right that you can never take it for granted.
And unfortunately for Chris Armis, those things didn't go right
for him.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Take us to your number two on your list.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
So my number two, Wow, what a fun player to watch.
My number two is precky and precky.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
The job the job, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And and here's one thing that every player that you know,
every every person listening who's watched Preky would say, you know,
every player as we played against him, even in practice,
we knew that the chop was coming, and he was
still doing it and getting it around you, right, So
of course it was easy to go around me because
I couldn't defend anyway. But it happened to our best defenders.
(37:57):
And by the way, it happened in MLS every year
against every team in every game. And you know, if
this he was one of those players like when you're
a fan in the stands, you almost if you're a
fan of the opposing team, you want you almost want
to be yelling at your defender here comes the shop,
because it's so obvious that it's coming. But he had
(38:17):
such deception, He had such great skill. He was an
excellent finisher, he was a good passer, He had all
of the qualities of having been a US great. But
yet because he got to the national team later in
his career when he was older, he really didn't have,
let's say, a real impact for the national team where
(38:40):
you know, years down the road you're going to remember him.
And that's unfortunate because he really was that once in
a lifetime talent.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
It would have been nice to see him on that
ninety team if he had been able to get his
citizens citizenship ten years earlier. He of course had that
amazing game against against Brazil in the one zero win,
the Casey Keller game, really because that was Casey's magnum opus,
my number one guy. Had a fantastic career. He was
(39:11):
one of the best players at the two thousand and
two World Cup. He had a long career in the Bundesliga,
playing mostly defensive midfield but also some right midfield for
DC United in the early nineties or the mid nineties,
that great DC dynasty. He was a key player. I'm
talking about Tony Sene. Tony SENNI. Anybody who watched him
(39:33):
play saw that incredible athleticism, fluid grace. They called him
the big Cat because of the way he moved. But
he was also so skillful on the ball. I mean,
that's why he was able to play in midfield and
in the Bundesliga at a high level for a while.
If Tony Sanni was coming around now, tab I think
he would be a fifty sixty million dollar center back.
(39:56):
Like any team in the world would see him and say, oh,
six foot three can jump out of the gym, comfortable,
comfortable on the ball, like an attacker can dribble through
that back line and carry the ball and compromise every
other team's defensive shape. We just didn't think about center
backs having that skill set thirty years ago. So like
(40:16):
when I think back, like if you could take one
player from you know, two thousand and two team and
drop him into this current team, for me, it would
be Tony sin Up. But not to play as an
overlapping fullback, which is what he was twenty five thirty
years ago, but to play as a center back in
the modern game.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah, I mean he was almost almost too skillful at
the time to be playing that position. You know, Tony had.
First of all, he had an amazing career in MLS,
but he also had a great career overseas you know,
by the way, an another great guy, right that made
the team better, That was likable, but yet it was hard.
(40:54):
He made every team he was on better and and
certainly a great pick I think for your number one,
because although you could say, well, you know it is
he really underrated because he did play for the national team.
He was great for the national team, and people knew
him and people know Tony sane and by the way,
(41:16):
he's doing great work now in his right in his
post career, which you know I would hate not to mention,
but he does great work with that too. But yeah,
I love this call because Tony is a guy that
I don't think you'd have many people disagreeing that you
wish that he would be a little bit more recognized
than he is.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah, and then take us to your number one, a
guy who I will say most modern fans think of
first as coach rather than a player because of the
great work he's done with us he has national teams,
and then also for a while with L Salvador.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Yeah, so my first, my number one would be Hugo
pees And that's exactly the reason why I think you
just said that most people wouldn't remember Hugo. I think
Hugo was not Not only is he now remembered now,
but I think was not respected enough before. But when
I looked at Hugo, and I've said this to Hugo myself,
(42:11):
that as I was coming along to the national team
and he was only a couple of years older than me,
that's the guy that I looked up to because he
had all he was the closest thing to Diego Maradona
that we've ever had on the national team. He was
very similar in the way he played. He was very
similar in the way he moved and the way he
(42:32):
caught and the way he got around players. Hugo was definitely,
I think, unfortunately twenty years ahead of his time, because
had Hugo come along even ten years later, he would
have been an MLS superstar and would arrival every foreign
signing that MLS could could have made. And by that
(42:54):
I mean like serious names, and I'm talking about like
Marco Etcheveri or Carlos valdor like the top of the
top MLS guys at the time. Hugo, I think, to
me was every bit as good. And unfortunately he's a
name that most people would not recognize.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, go into the YouTube archive see if you could
find some clips of Hugo on the ball. Because he
had that creative spark that makes the game beautiful and
makes US teams better that we saw it happen a
lot in the mid late eighties for that US team
that TAB was just joining up with, and Hugo had
a big part in getting the US to the nineteen
(43:33):
ninety World Cup for Us, it's time for one more
break and we'll be back and Tab will tell us
bring us inside the locker room back in nineteen ninety
eight against Iran. Thank you to all for listening to
Inside American Soccer. Please rate, review and subscribe. All right,
(44:02):
welcome back to Inside American Soccer. And look, it's a
tough time to do this with world events, but we
should talk about it in Back in nineteen ninety eight,
the US got drawn into the same group as Iran
for the World Cup, and it was politically fraught at
(44:22):
the time. And we're lucky to have someone who was
there in person to tell us about that game, to
build up and then right beforehand the pictures and you know,
exchange of gifts and then the game itself.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Yeah, it was. It was actually, it was actually a
little bit of a rough time because in general that
France nineteen ninety eight World Cup was a little bit
politically charged. Anyway, there was a lot going on in
the world, you know. I remember when we got to
Paris to play our first game against Germany. I was
(44:57):
on the bench the first game to start against against Germany,
and I remember looking from the bench and seeing all
the sharpshooters at the top of the stadium kind of
pointing down to the people. So just you know, this
was US against Germany, so it was already there was
it was already a politically charged World Cup where there
was a lot of security. I think we had a
(45:20):
couple different helicopters following our bus to uh to the stadium,
where normally normally you have one. I think there was
multiple at the time. There was you know, all kinds
of police cars everywhere. It was. It was not the
norm of a World Cup, although of course there's always
you know, most fans you know, won't know, but you know,
(45:41):
obviously all the World Cup teams are always well protected
with a lot of security when you travel to games.
This is this is the norm, right, you have police
in front, you have police in the back. Normally you
may have a helicopter following the team as well. But
there was this was different. You know, this was my
third World Cup and I noticed that this was different
than any other. And here we were, you know, playing
(46:02):
the Germany game, and and and you're seeing that, you know,
sort of soldiers all around the stadium, and it was
a little bit crazy, and so of course, then we're
drawn in a group with Iran, and you know, because
of the you know, the the political part of us
and Iran, that was always going to be politically charged,
regardless of the time. So I think it got magnified
(46:25):
because of the time we were living and we were
going into that game, and I remember that all people
focus on was, you know, the political tension between one
country and the next. And I think from a playing standpoint,
and this is more sort of a message for the fans,
but from a playing standpoint, you know, we're just playing
a game. You know, we're just playing a game. We're
(46:46):
just athletes playing a game. Of course, we're defending our country,
they're defending theirs. But at the end of the game,
it's just a game. If anything. You know, sports are
put together so that people can forget a lot of
the problems, not so that so that we can bring
more problems.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Two people.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
And so from an athletic standpoint, we just wanted to
play the game. We didn't want to talk about politics.
And I think, you know, although you know, it was
a difficult time because of it, I think there was
the norm, there was the norm of team shaking hands
and depending on how you got drawn up, whether you
were Team A or Team B. I'm sure all the
(47:25):
fans have seen it. But you know, when the teams
line up for a game, one team comes across and
shakes the hands of the other team, and the way
that works is you get drawn just by chance to
be Team A or Team B. We I think we
were drawn at the time to be Team A. And
because of it, you know, Team B had to come
across and shake our hands. And I think there was
(47:46):
some sort of argument over the federations because I think
no one wanted to come across and shake hands. So
but I think a great thing happened. And the great
thing that happened is that for the first time, both
teams decided, hey, you know what, let's leave politics aside
and let's take the picture together. And I think the
one thing that we did that I think was great
(48:06):
to show the world at the end of the day,
this is just a game, was that both teams, after
we took we took the field, we got together in
the center of the field and we did a single picture.
Instead of having our own team picture, we did a
single picture in which both teams were together, one American,
one Irani, one American one Irani, and I think it
was a great moment. I think not just for our
(48:29):
federation and for around, but I think for the world
to see that, you know, we're just athletes trying to
bring people together.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
It was a great moment before the game, and then
the game itself happened and that was less great. It
was a two to one final, if I recall, and
I think Claudio hit the crossbar once, Brian McBride maybe
hit the crossbar or the post twice. It was one
of those where the soccer gods just seemed to be
against the US on the day. That was pretty dark
(49:00):
for me as a fan. I can't imagine it was
much more pleasant for you as a player on the day.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Yeah, it was difficult because iron we were the better
team on the day. There was no question we dominated
the game. We should have been up at halftime already.
And like you said, I think we hit the post
three or four times. Unfortunately, Iran had a couple of
players up front who had speed and they got us
on the counter a couple times. And you know, these
are things that happened, and it happened in soccer, right
(49:29):
Otherwise you wouldn't have to play the games if the
better team won every time. That day we were the
better team. Unfortunately we lost. And because we lost, and
because the rest of our group was Germany and Yugoslavia,
you know, we were of course going to lose the
other two games as well, and we did, and we
ended up last not only in that group, but last
(49:49):
in the whole World Cup, and that sort of repainted
the picture of that World Cup having been likely one
of the worst World Cups that we ever had.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
But you ended up actually playing with one of the
around and players in MLS afterwards, Mohammed Khakpor, who was
their captain on the day.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Yeah, it was, you know, really interesting because you know
Muhammed who's in the obviously we'rell in the picture together.
He ended up in Metro Stars later on, and we
became really good friends, and you know, you become friends
on the team. Obviously everyone's friends in the locker room,
but we were friends off the field to the point
where like he and his wife came over my house
(50:28):
for dinner, we'd go to his house for dinner, so
we were we were actually very close. Super guy and
uh yeah, great person to be around.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
So you got to try some Persian Iranian cuisine. Man,
you got to try all of the goods, the lamb,
the rise, the whole.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Thing right right exactly, you know it was. It was
actually great because it was I think multiple times that
we got together with our families and we really we
really had a great time.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
Yeah, good times back then. Hopefully good time times to
come for everyone involved US Iranian around the world. Fingers
crossed on that. And thank you Tab for the story,
and thank you to all for listening to Inside American Soccer.
Please rate, review, and subscribe, Continue to leave your questions
(51:17):
in comments on all of our platforms, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok,
and YouTube, and we will see you all next week.
We got together in the center of the field and
we did a single picture. Instead of having our own
team picture, we did a single picture in which both
teams were together, one American one Irani, one American one Irani.
And I think it was a great moment. I think
not just for our federation and for around but I
think for the world to see that. You know, we're
just athletes trying to bring people together.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Greetings, folks, and welcome to Inside American Soccer. I'm Matt Doyle,
the armchair analyst, filling in for Tom Bogert for a
couple more weeks than I am, joined as always by
my friend and yours, tab Ramos, one of the greatest
players in US men's national team history, veteran of three
World Cups, and ready to chop it up on a
(00:47):
Tuesday morning, talking about what's happening in the world of
the US men's national team tap with one hundred days
left until the World Cup begins.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, it's getting exciting, right. MLS is rolling full time now.
We have the Champions League getting to its final stages,
which is the most exciting time for that, and we
have American players playing everywhere and some of them surprising
us and some of some of them falling behind. So
we'll have a little bit of a discussion about both
(01:17):
of those scenarios.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Who are you rooting for in the Champions League? Like,
do you have a team that because obviously we're all Betty's.
If they ever got to the round of sixteen, you
would be over the moon and that would be your club.
But like, is there, you know, barring that, is there
a team that you're kind of supporting these days or
long term?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Well, I mean, yeah, Betty's, I think is a good
is a good call. They actually disappointed me this weekend
because they were winning the derby two zero at halftime
and I actually turned the game and they ended up
tying to to at home to Sevilla, which is not
good in terms of Champions League. So my mom's family
is from Napoli, so Napoli is always my my sort
(01:57):
of my second team. But from when I was little,
my dad made me a sort of a Real Madrid fan,
from the time of when Juan Intel played for Real Madrid,
so that's a long time that most people won't remember.
But yeah, I would say Real Madrid is probably the
team that I support the most, although obviously not a
good year for them, and I think they only they
(02:18):
likely only have a couple of weeks left. But I'll
I'm traveling actually to Madrid next week to the Madrid
Man City game, so I'm gonna be there at that game.
It should be fun.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, it's a huge one. It's become look man anytime
it's pet versus Real Madrid. It is a matchup laden
with subtext and text. That's one of the ones that
I will be watching as well. But of course we
are here to talk about US men's national team. Unfortunately
that does not apply to Manchester City or Real Madrid
(02:50):
these days. Not yet. Anyway, we do have some very
talented teenagers coming through this syst who made one day
move to one of those two teams, and one of
them that will be talking about so is Noahkai Banks,
the German American playing big minutes, nineteen year old center
back for Augsburg playing big minutes in the Bundesliga. A
little bit of a dual national panic happening with him.
(03:13):
And then Wes McKenny finally gets a new contract for
Juventus after proving again and again and again that he's
irreplaceable for that team. We'll also talk the most underrated
US men's national team players of the past forty years,
a lot of guys that Tab played with back in
the day who maybe newer fans don't quite remember that well,
(03:34):
but also some of the newer guys more recent vintage.
And will also go inside the locker room with Tab
and discuss one of the most tension filled matches he
ever took part in with the US against Iran in
the nineteen ninety eight World Cup. But first let's get
into that US news and we'll start with Noah Kai Banks.
(03:55):
He had insists and then after the game he mentions
that national status, which honestly I had not heard him
talk about. Let me give you the quote, even though
playing out a World Cup is a dream, I don't
want to make my decision dependent on a World Cup,
is what he told Sky Sports Germany. I feel connected
to both nations, meaning the US and Germany. And the
(04:19):
context of that question was basically, if you're promised a
World Cup spot with the US, will you commit to
the US? And I think Toddy he gave him ature answer,
but I'm hoping that he'll commit to the US because
he's really good.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, I think he went into depth, likely a little
bit more than he wanted to on that answer. He
probably should have said, I'm leaving old doors open, you know,
which is what every player says all the time. In
that that means that you're not leaning either way. I
think with the way he phrased that, it's sort of
(04:55):
if I had to translate that, I would say he
just said, even if I get called for the US
to play in the World Cup, if I have a
chance to play for Germany, I will play for Germany instead.
That's how I That's how I read that, and so
that's the feel I got from that. And that's a
little bit scary, because you know, I was in the
(05:15):
middle of that fight in the in the mid tens.
Let's say, when we were fighting, you get players from
you know that wanted to go play for Mexico, you know,
the the Ledesmas of the world back then, and the
you know, Alex Mendez and these guys, and it was
a tough battle when Mexico was a little bit ahead
of us, and we felt like, you know, we really
(05:36):
had a Peppi being another one. We felt like we
really had to convince them. And I feel like Noah
kai bank Is by what he said, I feel like
now we need to convince him it's not a great
place to be. But there's just all it means is
that we have a little bit more homework to do,
that's all.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah. Thirty five years ago, Thomas Dooley kind of open
the door for German Americans to play a significant role
with the US national team. What was it like into
and to be clear, very different situation. Thomas Dooley was
a veteran I think it was what twenty nine years
old when he first got capped for the US, and
(06:16):
he was good enough to have been in a couple
Germany camps, but he's not going to play over low Darmataeus.
What was it like integrating him into that group that
had been so tight knit and so I don't want
to say closed off, but like it was basically a
bunch of American college kids together for nineteen ninety and
then by nineteen ninety four came around guys like Thomas
(06:38):
Dooley and Ernie Stewart had suddenly become part of the team.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, you know, I think it was an easy transition actually,
because it was we were a little bit in awe
in all of having guys coming from overseas who had
had a lot of experience. So Thomas Dooley had played
for kaisers Loud and already I think Leverkusen as well.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
In high Seed. Yeah, right, so he.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Had succeeded at the highest level and for US to
have a player like that, we never really thought of
Thomas being a foreigner when.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
He was with us.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
He was always put in. He always had a smile
in his face. He wanted to you know, he worked
hard every day. He didn't. He made it known that
this is what he really wanted. So he never really
he was never really walking a line. And I think
it might be because of what you just said. It
might be because of the age. Right at that age,
he knew that it was this or nothing. Maybe, but
(07:32):
we never felt like, oh, we have to impress Thomas
because he's either going to play for US or he's
going to play for Germany. I think he always made
it known that this is what he always wanted, and
he had a lot of respect for the US and
US flag and we always felt like he was part
and that it was really easy to have him on board.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah. No, Kai Banks obviously at different stage in his career,
just nineteen years old. He talked about being in US camp.
He was back, he was in camp back in September,
didn't play, and then wasn't in the subsequent camps and
in October and November. But he talked about adjusting and
he specifically said the guys helped me to get into
the team and into the training. It was incredible, to
(08:12):
be honest, the big guys like Christian koulisk or Tim Waya,
we maybe don't expect it, but it's been great saying
that the leadership from the veterans in this US squad
actually data make him feel welcome. So look, man, I
have my fingers crossed. It's weird to have to recruit,
right you. Ideally it's everybody who is in the roster
(08:36):
on the team are guys who dreamed of wearing those
colors and those colors alone. But that's not reality. Reality
is that dual nationals everywhere from Argentina to Italy, to
England to Turkey to the US in Mexico. You have
to recruit and you have to kind of make it
(08:56):
the culture of the team to blend all of these
guys with different backs grounds together, So for me to like,
I really want Punch to call him for the camp
coming this month. I will be disappointed if he doesn't.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, well, here's the other point that I think he's
deserving of a call at this point, you know. So,
I mean, regardless of what he said, I thought he
had a real good chance of getting called this camp anyway,
and so I'm hoping that that Poschettino in this case
follows through and regardless of what, you know, what he mentioned,
what Noa Kaite mentioned to the to the press, I
(09:35):
think he should be in anyway. And I think, you know,
and and maybe if you're a Puschettino, you're giving yourself
a better chance by having him in camp and by
being able to discuss with him in the future a
little bit as a young player. And that's something that
likely no Kaite Banks would like to hear. So I
think it would benefit everyone if if he gets to
call anyway, because you know, he deserves it.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yeah. Another guy who is earned himself a call. I
think it is Johnny Cardoso, who struggled the first half
of the year with Atletico Madrid obviously had some injuries
as well, but has played well recently Athletier into the
Champions League Round of sixteen. They also have the second
leg of Copa del Rey against Barcelona coming up, and
(10:20):
they thrashed Barcelona four nil in that first leg. He
has played much better for club than he has for country.
I mean, he's got about twenty caps with the US,
and I can't think of one in which he was
particularly compelling. Is this window we expect him to be
(10:42):
on the roster even though he has kind of lost
the backup job defensive midfield, like other guys have clearly
passed him in Pochettino's eyes, But like A, does he
need to be there regardless? And B should he start?
Should he start in these games so that Pachkin get
a sense for Okay, can he translate what he does
(11:03):
with Atluti to the US national team because he hasn't
so far.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
And those are all good points. So I'll start with
the beginning, and which you said, you know, if he's
played twenty games, and that actually shocks me because I
can't even think of the like twenty games, because you're right,
I mean, we all remember one play that he made
and it wasn't a good one, right, And that's the
play against Turkey. That's what we're thinking about when we
(11:28):
think of him playing for the national team, which is
really unfortunate, only not because a player couldn't make that mistake,
but only because he hasn't had a bunch of other
moments that where we could say, well, he did that,
but look at all of these things, so you're absolutely right.
For the national team, he has not been at that level.
(11:50):
I think the important part at this point is that
he's playing for one of the top teams in the
Champions League. I mean, there's no way to hide that.
If you had to pick the top fifteen teams in
the world, Athletico Madrid would be up there likely, and
he started for them, and he started for them in
a big game in the Champions League, and he scored
the winning goal, by the way, So we can't brush
(12:11):
that aside and think that because he didn't do well
for the national team in the past, that this doesn't
have the value. I think this has incredible value. I think,
as I mentioned to you to everyone here a couple
of shows ago, when we were talking about Balligan and
the importance of just being a starter in those teams, right,
(12:31):
he's starting for one of the top teams in the
world and playing a significant role in a significant game
that has a lot of money at stake for the club,
and he did well in it. By the way, he
didn't play great at that in that game. He was okay,
but he scored a great goal, which obviously helps him
a lot. But I think we have to value that,
(12:53):
and because of that, I think he's deserving of a
call and given other chances to succeed, likely the national.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Team, he gets the call. What happens if he's not
starting in the first game, the first friendly, the US
player in this window, Does that tell you something?
Speaker 1 (13:11):
No, not really, because you know Maurico Pozettino may, of course,
as a coach, he's already thinking of the starting eleven,
right and the starting eleven may not include him anyway,
I think you want to have, though, on the bench,
someone that you think is not going to be scared
to play in a big game. And by the way,
(13:31):
no player is scared. But I think you know what
I'm saying by that, someone that's not going to have
the nerves because we're playing you know, Portugal and Belgium,
like you're starting to play big teams now, and I
think when you look at us playing big teams where
and by big teams, I mean teams that have an
excellent player in every position, an excellent, skillful, mature player
(13:56):
in every single position. And I think Johnny Cardoso fits
into that role because he's doing that in the Champions
League he's playing, and by the way, he's doing that
in practice every day. Because Athletical Madrid's roster can match
up with a lot of rosters from around the world
from the top team, so I think it would be
a good call to have him in and regardless of
(14:17):
whether he starts or not, I think it would be
good to give him some minutes to allow him to
gain some confidence with the US uniform.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
On an excellent skillful player in every position for Juventus,
that's just cloning Weston McKenny. Eleven times. He has played
just about every position for You've a over the years,
and it seems like every year we have talked about
him needing to prove himself in a new spot for
(14:46):
a new coach, and finally this week it happened. Westin
McKenny got a four year contract from Juventus. I think
it's four point seven million a year net. Nice money
if you can get it, So congratulations to him. He's
been playing mostly as a number ten lately and kind
(15:06):
of like a bots arriving number ten, but he does
have that ability to sort of unlock the defense with
a one touch pass. Has shown that, you know, put
that to good use recently. Happy for him as a
player and a person. What's your take on this situation, tab,
Is this the ideal outcome for him?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Well, the last game, I think the last Champions League
game they played, he started a left back and then
did the game at right back. So but yeah, you're right,
he plays number ten most of the time. So I
just don't think there's many players in the world who
can do all of that and do it well right. So,
and by well, I mean he doesn't look out of position, right,
(15:48):
because he does make, you know, some mistakes playing in
particularly left back. He didn't look comfortable there to me.
But anyway, Yeah, this surprises me, to be honest, because
I really thought that with what he had done at
Juventus that the door was completely open for him to
return to the EPL and be in in a top
(16:12):
let's say, mid table and higher team in the EPL.
And I'm a little bit surprised that that didn't happen.
I think the important party is he's at a great
club that finally loves him. You know, it took so
long for the club to fall in love with him,
but they have and I'm happy to see that and
I'm happy for him. And by the way, four point
(16:34):
seven million a year, I think you can live on that.
So I think he's gonna be okay.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, yeah, it probably goes pretty far in Turin. I
like this more. I like him being a centerpiece on
this team and at that salary. He is going to
be a centerpiece for this team. He's gonna be one
of the leaders for a team that is going to
be competing at the top of Syria, trying to win
(16:58):
trophies every single year, rather than going to the primary
league and being a team that's just trying to break
into the top six. I think it's better for him
for his like for leadership reasons with the team, because
Western as a leader for the US has been gregarious
and he's you know, body language monster, but he's never
(17:19):
been the guy who's like, Okay, this team is going
to revolve around me. And I think for the US
to hit its peak this group, they kind of need
him to be that. They need him to be running
the show in midfield emotionally and tactically, and I think
this puts him in a good spot to actually learn
(17:40):
those skills.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
You could be right about that. I'll give you the
other side of that. The other side of that is that,
you know, Juventus signs a couple other skillful midfielders and
now he's stuck playing wide somewhere. Although you know, although
they're obviously you know, paying them enough money to have
him on the field every day, and they're going to
need to do that because it's not like Juventus, you know,
(18:03):
financially it can be so competitive that they can afford
to have a player making this kind of money sitting
on the bench. Let's just say that. Yeah, you know,
the part that scares me about his situation at Juventus
is that he still doesn't really have a position. And
so this this makes me recall, you know, back when
(18:25):
I was playing in Spain, Jorgey Dallas Sandro is, you know,
one of my coaches who's you know, one of my
great coaches who played you know, he coached Athletico Madrid
and a lot of big clubs. After he left Betty's.
He said to me that he didn't like players that
were a little bit good at everything, you know, he
liked players who were really good in one position because
he knew that if he bought an expert at right wing,
(18:46):
that that right winger was going to be a right
winger and was going to deliver. And so I'm not
sure if that's getting my point across, but that's where
I am with with Weston right because even when we
think about Weston playing for our national team, were thinking, okay,
well he played a little deeper in midfield, will he
be the ten? Will Mariso Pochetino put him wide? Because
(19:08):
he wants to have him on the field, And I'd
rather see someone who's really good at one role. And
that could be an issue at Juventus down the road
in particular, because as we know, coaches don't last very long,
and as a new coach comes in, they'll have their
own players and where do you fall after that? So
a little bit by the way, great move, great contract,
(19:30):
but a little bit of a scary situation because I'm
just not seeing the exact position for him.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Let's keep our fingers crossed that it all works out
that he does get all those minutes in central midfield,
whether it's as an eight or a ten. I think
those are probably his two best spots. But for us,
it's time for a break. We'll be right back with
our rankings the top five most underrated US men's national
team players of the past forty years, and we're gonna
(19:59):
ad you to rate, review, and subscribe to Inside American
Soccer with Tom Boger at tab Ramos wherever you get
your podcasts. All right, folks, welcome back to Inside American Soccer.
(20:21):
I'm Matt Doyle here with Tabramos and we're doing our
inside rankings. It's a pretty new segment that we have
decided to weave into the show, where Tab and I
get to go through our top fives of various things
in and around US soccer. And we're going back at
the time machine a little bit for this one. Tab
We're going to take a look at our most underrated
(20:43):
US men's national team players of the past forty years.
And I am going to start out my number five
is a dual national, a playmaker who has South American roots,
really good on the ball, not necessarily a goal scorer,
(21:05):
and not tab Ramos. I'm talking about Benny Feilhaber, who
came out of nowhere in the actually was caught caught
the eye of Ziggi Schmid. Back when Benny was walking
on to U c l A, Ziggy put him in
the U twenty national team. Nobody had any idea who
this kid was. Man marked Messi at the U twenty
(21:29):
World Cup in a game that the US won. That
was the only loss that Argentina suffered even that U
twenty World Cup. Messi of course went on to win
the Golden Boot and Golden Ball and all that, and
then went on to have a really kind of weird
club career. But for the national team to have whenever
(21:50):
he played, he was so good, and I remembered running
the numbers on it, and the US's plus minus when
he was on the field was absurd. It was because
he unlocked so much for Landon and Clint and Josie,
and he also allowed, like Michael Bradley to be more
of a sort of a cover the entire field, while
Benny would sort of just run the show and organize.
(22:13):
I loved watching him play, but he only ended up
with about forty caps, and that always disappointed me.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, you know, it's a good call. Definitely, a great
player in midfield made everybody else around them better, And
I think that's that's what you're saying. And I think
in the spirit of what we're putting together here, we're
talking about guys that maybe deserved a little bit more. Yet,
I do feel like, you know, forty caps for the
national team is significant. You know, it's it's not a
(22:43):
couple of caps. He did play a significant role on
the team, and I think because of his position, he
was likely always going to be a little bit of
a secondary type of supportive player. So I do agree
with you Benny was a great player and one that
I think, you know, in particular, I think he ended
in Kansas City Rights, so he ended with a good
(23:06):
career there, and I think a lot of people following
him there, and I think he in general had a
good career, and overall, I think forty caps is it's
a significant role in a player that certainly, you know,
when they put together a Hall of Fame type list,
you know, the name is one that comes up.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
The goal he scored against Mexico in the two thousand
and seven Gold Cup Final, one of the all time
great goals. The US has ever scored, period, but especially
coming against that team in a final. And then, of
course the play he makes against Spain in the Confederation's
Cup semi final to set up Clint Dempsey's shocking goal
(23:46):
in that one that was you know, those are the
two career highlights for Benny feil Hobber with the national team.
His ability to get out of that Spanish press in
central midfield and then make a positive play and lead
to one of the most famous wins in US national
team history. And a player I just really liked watching.
(24:08):
I also really liked watching the two guys that you
have listed at number five, because your top five is
actually a top six.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
It is a top six. But I will I'll have
the two at number five tide, just as I did
last week on our other list. I had a little
bit of a category here. You know. John O'Brien is
a player that you know, you've heard people like Brian
dun Seth who we've had on the show, uh and
(24:38):
and Clint Mathews who we've had on the show talk
a little bit about the quality that he had. You know,
unfortunately he had a lot of injuries, but he was
a player one of the first ones to go to
i AX and actually make a difference.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
He was a.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Great midfield sort of leader, even as at at a
young age. I think I recalled telling the Historian, which
you know I played right towards the end of my career.
You know, he came on on the team and I
remember I lost the ball in midfield and he said
something to me, and I was, you know, I was.
I was impressed by the fact that such a young
(25:15):
player could kind of correct me, and he had that
type of leadership personality on the field, and so yeah,
you know, John O'Brien was a great player. I will
also add the next one, which is Rick Davis. You know,
Rick Davis is a great connector I think from the
past to the present. Rick was one that played, you know,
(25:38):
in the old days in the NASL for the Cosmos
at first one was one one of the few Americans
who actually excelled in the NASL, which was very difficult
because the NASL was basically mostly foreigners. And he was
one of the ones that played a significant role and
then connected us sort of to the future.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
He was on the nineteen eighty eight Olympic team, but
he was a very good player, great skill in the
center of the field, rarely made a mistake, could see
the field really well, and I had all the skills
of a great player. Unfortunately, the reason I'm thinking he's
underrated is because he played at a time but we
(26:17):
really ended up having the bulk of his let's say,
the best part of his career was at a time
when we didn't really have a league, and because of that,
I think most people won't know him.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah. The same thing applies to the guy who I
have number four on my list, teammate of yours in
nineteen ninety Mike Wendishman, classy left footed defender. I think
he'd be a sort of a Tim Reen comparison if
you had to, you know, plug and play him today.
He was he the captain in nineteen ninety. Yeah, he
(26:51):
was a captain for you guys in nineteen ninety and
then he retired right after that. He could have could
have kept going like he would have been good for
it least a couple of years in MLS, but he
called it quits. I think he played in footsal as
well until about ninety two. I just remember watching that
team and the way he had a knack for calming
(27:14):
the game down from the back, which was a developing
trait among American defenders at that time. Tip.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Yeah, and I'm really gonna add only one thing. I
think he had the personality. You know, at times we
mentioned on this show how I feel like I was
fortunate because I was surrounded at that time with although
not the best players we've ever had, I think the
players that had the strongest personality because we needed it.
(27:45):
We really were nobodies at the time, and we had
to play against the best teams in the world. And
yet I think no one was scared, and I think
no one represented that better than Mike Wendishman. And I
think that's why he was the captain of the team.
He was a guy that was never scared, had always
you know, pushed the team and and because of that,
I think it was, you know, one of the one
(28:06):
of the key figures for the sort of the turn
of soccer in the country. So I think this is
a great call.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Is it? Team tim reim comparison? The right one in
your mind? Is that the player, that modern player that
Mike reminds you of the most, or someone else come
to mind.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, I mean I can't, I can't think of anyone
else I would come to mind, but I would see
Mike Wendishman as likely not quite Let's let's just say
Tim's Ream's best moments, and I think Mike Wendishman didn't
quite have the skill set that Tim Reim had, you know,
in terms of playing out of the back, let's say.
(28:46):
But I also think that Mike Wendishman was a little
bit tougher when it came to like tackles and and
just having the personality to push guys around. I think
he was a little bit more of that.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Take us to your number four on the list.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
So my number four, I'm going to make it really
short because this was a guest on our show a
couple of weeks ago, and that's Clint Mathis to me,
one of the best players to have ever played the game,
one of the best players to have ever put on
a national team uniform. Yet if you were to do
a poll of you know, one hundred top journalists likely
(29:21):
or fans who have watched the national team over years,
likely none of them will put Clint Mathis on the
list of top players. And I think because of that,
I say he's one of the most underrated players.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, his prime was very short for the national team,
but it was spectacular the original Dosa Sero. Like Gerafria
against Mexico in Ohio. Clint comes on for an injured
Brian McBride about twenty twenty five minutes into that game,
or actually Clint came on for Claudio. Claudio and Brian
(29:55):
both got injured and Clint and Josh Wolf both came
on changed the game. Clint played it incredible, like forty
yard outside of the boot Travella through ball to Josh
that led to the first goal, and then, of course,
two years later he scores one of the great goals
that the US has ever scored in the World Cup.
(30:17):
He had it all to time, He really did. He
was my favorite player to watch for a couple of years.
There injuries and maybe a little bit off field stuff
cut his career short, which was a shamee, But man,
he left an impression. The guy who I have number
three on my list did not really leave an impression
(30:37):
for anybody, and that's kind of a compliment. For center back,
I have Matt Beesler, who was rock solid during that
twenty fourteen World Cup qualifying cycle. He was actually ahead
of Tim Ring in the center back depth chart. Their
same age played the same position. Matt Beeesler and Tim
Rim played it similarly. I think that Beaesler was tougher
(30:59):
in the tackle at that point in time and an organizer,
a guy who just like kept his head down, did
not make mistakes. Unfortunately for him, the one thing we
all remember is him getting absolutely trucked by Romelo Vukaku
against Belchium in that round of sixteen game. But he
met He was just like the quintessential keep the floor
(31:20):
high and keep the ball moving center back.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah, you know, there's there's no better compliment for a defender.
And this is a great point that you start with
with with Matt Beezler because obviously I was Urgen Klinsman's
assistant coach in that twenty fourteen World Cups. I know
Matt really well first as a person, which is, you know,
great person, great guy, makes the whole team better, liked
(31:44):
by everyone. And I know that a lot of fans
are like, oh, yeah, well because he liked him doesn't
mean he's good, no, But on top of it, he's good.
And I think there's no better compliment for a defender
who had such a long career than to say, you
don't remember a lot of what he did. And and
that's why this is a great call, because that was
Matt Beesler, you know. And and by the way, it
(32:06):
is he still playing in Kansas City. It seemed like
he just went on and on, right, it never ended
because it was the same in his professional career. You don't,
you don't, actually, and I know you you think about
that play with Lukaku, But Lukaku did that to everyone, really,
I mean the best Lukaku did that, you know, to
the best player, best defenders in the world. So I
(32:28):
agree with you. Matt was one of those guys. But
that was that was his role. And I think if Matt,
you know, was still playing, he would still be the
same guy, the guy that didn't make the mistakes and
the guy that that uh but but but the guy
that you had on your starting team always right. And
so because of that, I think, you know, Matt is
certainly deserving of that.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Another guy from that era is your number three.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Well my number, my number three I can't talk enough
about because Jermaine Jones has been one of my favorite
players of all time. Matter of fact, if I had
if I had to say, you know, name me a
top ten US players of all time, It'd be hard
for me not to put them there because I knew personally,
(33:14):
I saw every day what he could do. He was
one of the first US players to be not only
hard on the tackle, extremely hard on the tackle, extremely
intense mentally on the field, but could also deliver a
ball with the right foot or left foot over sixty
(33:35):
yards to somebody's chest or on somebody's run. And I
think that's a quality that we didn't have Americans. We
didn't have other Americans that could do that. You know.
Sometimes when I talked about Clint Mathis, I talked about
the fact that he could take a free kick with
the right foot or the left foot, which is something
that most people can't do, But then he had a
(33:55):
thousand other qualities. Jermaine Jones was another one of those
players that I think most people will remember Jermaine for
just being a hard player, but Jermaine was tremendously skillful,
and he had all of the qualities of a top
notch either eight or six. He could do both, but
he was a heavyweight on the field playing against lightweights,
(34:17):
and I loved everything about him.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah, it's the opposite of Matt Beaesler. Right, you don't
remember the players from Matt Beeesler. You remember a lot
of what Jermaine did. Nothing more than that that goal
against Portugal. He absolutely laced that one. I'm going to
go back about ten years before that for my number
two pick, Chris Armis. And the reason people don't really
(34:40):
remember Chris Armis as a national team players because he
the poor guy, had the worst luck. He got injured
right towards acl right before the two thousand and two
World Cup. Now that opened the door for Pablo Mastroeni,
who went on to have a fantastic World Cup and
a fantastic career, but he was behind Chris Armis in
the depth chart, and then he was Chris Armis again
(35:01):
in two thousand and six, and Chris Armas got injured
again in two thousand and six. But in between all
of those tough qualifiers, you go down to Guatemala, you
go down to San Pedro Sula, you go to Mexico City.
It was Chris Armis was basically the first name on
Bruce Arena's team sheet, and he was nasty to play against.
(35:22):
I remember in nineteen ninety nine it was one of
his first caps. They were playing the US for playing
in the Confederations Cup against Germany, and Andreas Mueller afterwards said,
no man with children should have to play against that guy.
About Chris Armis and that is about that is about
the best compliment you could ever give a defensive midfielder.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Tap Yeah, no question. You know, Chris was as tough
as they came, but the opposite of Jermaine Jones, right
because although he was really tough and he can get
into tackles, and obviously there was you know, think about
how long he was on the national team and obviously
unfortunately he didn't play in the two World Cubs, which
you're right, that's what most people will remember. He still
(36:08):
had a long national team career and he's also one
of those guys that you can't think about mistakes that
he made when he played. But here's the difference with
Chris Armis is that he would be as tough as
they come, but yet you wanted to be his friend,
right because you know Chris Armis as like if you know,
for the people who are fortunate enough like myself to
(36:31):
know him as a person, he's one of the nicest
guys you'll ever meet, right, And although he was one
of the toughest players, he was a super nice guy.
And again another guy that was great to the locker room.
Now and I'm seeing a little bit of your list,
you know, with a bunch of guys who who were,
you know, the end of the day, hard guys on
the field and nice guys off the field, and I
(36:53):
think certainly Chris Armis was one of those. And by
the way, I think it's important to mention that, you know,
it's so hard to play in a World Cup because
so many things have to go right. You have to
not only be a consistent player for the national team,
but come into June of that every four years playing
well enough to go to it and not get injured
(37:14):
at the same time, so so many things have to
go right that you can never take it for granted.
And unfortunately for Chris Armis, those things didn't go right
for him.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Take us to your number two on your list.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
So my number two, Wow, what a fun player to watch.
My number two is precky and precky.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
The job the job, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And and here's one thing that every player that you know,
every every person listening who's watched Preky would say, you know,
every player as we played against him, even in practice,
we knew that the chop was coming, and he was
still doing it and getting it around you, right, So
of course it was easy to go around me because
I couldn't defend anyway. But it happened to our best defenders.
(37:57):
And by the way, it happened in MLS every year
against every team in every game. And you know, if
this he was one of those players like when you're
a fan in the stands, you almost if you're a
fan of the opposing team, you want you almost want
to be yelling at your defender here comes the shop,
because it's so obvious that it's coming. But he had
(38:17):
such deception, He had such great skill. He was an
excellent finisher, he was a good passer, He had all
of the qualities of having been a US great. But
yet because he got to the national team later in
his career when he was older, he really didn't have,
let's say, a real impact for the national team where
(38:40):
you know, years down the road you're going to remember him.
And that's unfortunate because he really was that once in
a lifetime talent.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
It would have been nice to see him on that
ninety team if he had been able to get his
citizens citizenship ten years earlier. He of course had that
amazing game against against Brazil in the one zero win,
the Casey Keller game, really because that was Casey's magnum opus,
my number one guy. Had a fantastic career. He was
(39:11):
one of the best players at the two thousand and
two World Cup. He had a long career in the Bundesliga,
playing mostly defensive midfield but also some right midfield for
DC United in the early nineties or the mid nineties,
that great DC dynasty. He was a key player. I'm
talking about Tony Sene. Tony SENNI. Anybody who watched him
(39:33):
play saw that incredible athleticism, fluid grace. They called him
the big Cat because of the way he moved. But
he was also so skillful on the ball. I mean,
that's why he was able to play in midfield and
in the Bundesliga at a high level for a while.
If Tony Sanni was coming around now, tab I think
he would be a fifty sixty million dollar center back.
(39:56):
Like any team in the world would see him and say, oh,
six foot three can jump out of the gym, comfortable,
comfortable on the ball, like an attacker can dribble through
that back line and carry the ball and compromise every
other team's defensive shape. We just didn't think about center
backs having that skill set thirty years ago. So like
(40:16):
when I think back, like if you could take one
player from you know, two thousand and two team and
drop him into this current team, for me, it would
be Tony sin Up. But not to play as an
overlapping fullback, which is what he was twenty five thirty
years ago, but to play as a center back in
the modern game.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah, I mean he was almost almost too skillful at
the time to be playing that position. You know, Tony had.
First of all, he had an amazing career in MLS,
but he also had a great career overseas you know,
by the way, an another great guy, right that made
the team better, That was likable, but yet it was hard.
(40:54):
He made every team he was on better and and
certainly a great pick I think for your number one,
because although you could say, well, you know it is
he really underrated because he did play for the national team.
He was great for the national team, and people knew
him and people know Tony sane and by the way,
(41:16):
he's doing great work now in his right in his
post career, which you know I would hate not to mention,
but he does great work with that too. But yeah,
I love this call because Tony is a guy that
I don't think you'd have many people disagreeing that you
wish that he would be a little bit more recognized
than he is.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah, and then take us to your number one, a
guy who I will say most modern fans think of
first as coach rather than a player because of the
great work he's done with us he has national teams,
and then also for a while with L Salvador.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Yeah, so my first, my number one would be Hugo
pees And that's exactly the reason why I think you
just said that most people wouldn't remember Hugo. I think
Hugo was not Not only is he now remembered now,
but I think was not respected enough before. But when
I looked at Hugo, and I've said this to Hugo myself,
(42:11):
that as I was coming along to the national team
and he was only a couple of years older than me,
that's the guy that I looked up to because he
had all he was the closest thing to Diego Maradona
that we've ever had on the national team. He was
very similar in the way he played. He was very
similar in the way he moved and the way he
(42:32):
caught and the way he got around players. Hugo was definitely,
I think, unfortunately twenty years ahead of his time, because
had Hugo come along even ten years later, he would
have been an MLS superstar and would arrival every foreign
signing that MLS could could have made. And by that
(42:54):
I mean like serious names, and I'm talking about like
Marco Etcheveri or Carlos valdor like the top of the
top MLS guys at the time. Hugo, I think, to
me was every bit as good. And unfortunately he's a
name that most people would not recognize.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, go into the YouTube archive see if you could
find some clips of Hugo on the ball. Because he
had that creative spark that makes the game beautiful and
makes US teams better that we saw it happen a
lot in the mid late eighties for that US team
that TAB was just joining up with, and Hugo had
a big part in getting the US to the nineteen
(43:33):
ninety World Cup for Us, it's time for one more
break and we'll be back and Tab will tell us
bring us inside the locker room back in nineteen ninety
eight against Iran. Thank you to all for listening to
Inside American Soccer. Please rate, review and subscribe. All right,
(44:02):
welcome back to Inside American Soccer. And look, it's a
tough time to do this with world events, but we
should talk about it in Back in nineteen ninety eight,
the US got drawn into the same group as Iran
for the World Cup, and it was politically fraught at
(44:22):
the time. And we're lucky to have someone who was
there in person to tell us about that game, to
build up and then right beforehand the pictures and you know,
exchange of gifts and then the game itself.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Yeah, it was. It was actually, it was actually a
little bit of a rough time because in general that
France nineteen ninety eight World Cup was a little bit
politically charged. Anyway, there was a lot going on in
the world, you know. I remember when we got to
Paris to play our first game against Germany. I was
(44:57):
on the bench the first game to start against against Germany,
and I remember looking from the bench and seeing all
the sharpshooters at the top of the stadium kind of
pointing down to the people. So just you know, this
was US against Germany, so it was already there was
it was already a politically charged World Cup where there
was a lot of security. I think we had a
(45:20):
couple different helicopters following our bus to uh to the stadium,
where normally normally you have one. I think there was
multiple at the time. There was you know, all kinds
of police cars everywhere. It was. It was not the
norm of a World Cup, although of course there's always
you know, most fans you know, won't know, but you know,
(45:41):
obviously all the World Cup teams are always well protected
with a lot of security when you travel to games.
This is this is the norm, right, you have police
in front, you have police in the back. Normally you
may have a helicopter following the team as well. But
there was this was different. You know, this was my
third World Cup and I noticed that this was different
than any other. And here we were, you know, playing
(46:02):
the Germany game, and and and you're seeing that, you know,
sort of soldiers all around the stadium, and it was
a little bit crazy, and so of course, then we're
drawn in a group with Iran, and you know, because
of the you know, the the political part of us
and Iran, that was always going to be politically charged,
regardless of the time. So I think it got magnified
(46:25):
because of the time we were living and we were
going into that game, and I remember that all people
focus on was, you know, the political tension between one
country and the next. And I think from a playing standpoint,
and this is more sort of a message for the fans,
but from a playing standpoint, you know, we're just playing
a game. You know, we're just playing a game. We're
(46:46):
just athletes playing a game. Of course, we're defending our country,
they're defending theirs. But at the end of the game,
it's just a game. If anything. You know, sports are
put together so that people can forget a lot of
the problems, not so that so that we can bring
more problems.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Two people.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
And so from an athletic standpoint, we just wanted to
play the game. We didn't want to talk about politics.
And I think, you know, although you know, it was
a difficult time because of it, I think there was
the norm, there was the norm of team shaking hands
and depending on how you got drawn up, whether you
were Team A or Team B. I'm sure all the
(47:25):
fans have seen it. But you know, when the teams
line up for a game, one team comes across and
shakes the hands of the other team, and the way
that works is you get drawn just by chance to
be Team A or Team B. We I think we
were drawn at the time to be Team A. And
because of it, you know, Team B had to come
across and shake our hands. And I think there was
(47:46):
some sort of argument over the federations because I think
no one wanted to come across and shake hands. So
but I think a great thing happened. And the great
thing that happened is that for the first time, both
teams decided, hey, you know what, let's leave politics aside
and let's take the picture together. And I think the
one thing that we did that I think was great
(48:06):
to show the world at the end of the day,
this is just a game, was that both teams, after
we took we took the field, we got together in
the center of the field and we did a single picture.
Instead of having our own team picture, we did a
single picture in which both teams were together, one American,
one Irani, one American one Irani, and I think it
was a great moment. I think not just for our
(48:29):
federation and for around, but I think for the world
to see that, you know, we're just athletes trying to
bring people together.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
It was a great moment before the game, and then
the game itself happened and that was less great. It
was a two to one final, if I recall, and
I think Claudio hit the crossbar once, Brian McBride maybe
hit the crossbar or the post twice. It was one
of those where the soccer gods just seemed to be
against the US on the day. That was pretty dark
(49:00):
for me as a fan. I can't imagine it was
much more pleasant for you as a player on the day.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Yeah, it was difficult because iron we were the better
team on the day. There was no question we dominated
the game. We should have been up at halftime already.
And like you said, I think we hit the post
three or four times. Unfortunately, Iran had a couple of
players up front who had speed and they got us
on the counter a couple times. And you know, these
are things that happened, and it happened in soccer, right
(49:29):
Otherwise you wouldn't have to play the games if the
better team won every time. That day we were the
better team. Unfortunately we lost. And because we lost, and
because the rest of our group was Germany and Yugoslavia,
you know, we were of course going to lose the
other two games as well, and we did, and we
ended up last not only in that group, but last
(49:49):
in the whole World Cup, and that sort of repainted
the picture of that World Cup having been likely one
of the worst World Cups that we ever had.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
But you ended up actually playing with one of the
around and players in MLS afterwards, Mohammed Khakpor, who was
their captain on the day.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Yeah, it was, you know, really interesting because you know
Muhammed who's in the obviously we'rell in the picture together.
He ended up in Metro Stars later on, and we
became really good friends, and you know, you become friends
on the team. Obviously everyone's friends in the locker room,
but we were friends off the field to the point
where like he and his wife came over my house
(50:28):
for dinner, we'd go to his house for dinner, so
we were we were actually very close. Super guy and
uh yeah, great person to be around.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
So you got to try some Persian Iranian cuisine. Man,
you got to try all of the goods, the lamb,
the rise, the whole.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Thing right right exactly, you know it was. It was
actually great because it was I think multiple times that
we got together with our families and we really we
really had a great time.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
Yeah, good times back then. Hopefully good time times to
come for everyone involved US Iranian around the world. Fingers
crossed on that. And thank you Tab for the story,
and thank you to all for listening to Inside American Soccer.
Please rate, review, and subscribe, Continue to leave your questions
(51:17):
in comments on all of our platforms, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok,
and YouTube, and we will see you all next week.
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