February 11, 2026 • 41 mins
Matt Doyle and Tab Ramos are joined by USMNT legend and World Cup goal-scorer Clint Mathis for a wide-ranging conversation about one of the most iconic eras in American soccer. Clint breaks down what made the 2002 U.S. team so special, shares the story behind his Sports Illustrated cover, and explains how his famous mohawk landed him in trouble. Tab reveals why Clint is his favorite American player of all time, and the group offers predictions for how the USMNT will finish at this year’s World Cup.
They also dive into the latest headlines, including rumors surrounding Christian Pulisic’s potential move to Tottenham, Weston McKennie’s contract situation at Juventus, and Clint’s ideal Starting XI for the 2026 World Cup.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've been fortunate enough to play with great American players,
some of the greatest American players of all time, and
what I can say about that is that none of
them had all of the tools in the toolbox that
Clint Math has had.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Greetings, folks, and welcome to Inside American Soccer. I'm Matt Doyley,
armchair analyst, and I'll be filling in for new dad
Tom Bogert for a couple more weeks. Reports out of
the Boger household have indicated no strife early days after
the transfer window move for Young THEO. I am honored
(00:36):
to be joined by my new friend, one of the
greatest players in US soccer history, a veteran of three
World Cups, you can say, the face of the national
team in the nineteen nineties tab Ramos, and where joined
by a guy who might have been the face of
the national team for part at least of the two thousand.
It's an incredible guest, another US soccer legend, an MLS
(00:58):
Cup champion, and one of the greatest metro stars.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Of all time.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Clint mathis gentlemen, it is wonderful to be here with
the two of you.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Oh, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Clint, Yeah,
thank you so much for coming on. Obviously, I don't
I don't really know where to start with you, because
it is a little bit difficult for me. Clint and
I were roommates with the Metro Stars for a little while,
and then, you know, I was so happy to see
like that was his sort of where his career started
(01:29):
to lift into international stardom, and I had an opportunity
to live a little bit of that with Clint in
the room, with him eating all the jelly beans possible
that he could eat. And I have to say this.
I couldn't start the show by not if I didn't
say that Clint has been my favorite American player of
(01:52):
all time. And I know that everyone has different lists,
and everyone can judge different people according to stats or
how long their career was, or what teams they were on,
or whatever else. But I can tell you that I've
been fortunate enough to play with great American players and
some of the greatest American players of all time, and
(02:13):
what I can say about that is that none of
them had all of the tools in the toolbox that
Clint math has had, starting from his great technical ability,
his speed, his ability to process information on the field,
to deliver a pass, the quality and pace of a pass.
He was good in the air. He could take a
(02:33):
free kick with the right foot or the left foot,
which no one can do. I mean, I could go
on and on is dribbling. Everything Clint did was amazing.
And on top of it, he was a down to
earth person with a huge heart who always spoke about
his mom. We talked about his mom and Georgia in
the room all the time. You know, Clint, I'm so
(02:57):
happy to have you here. And for all those ads
out there who don't know as much about you, I
really wish they did.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I appreciate it. It does sound like tab you did
get the brown envelope that sent before the show, So
I appreciate that. So you went right on Q. I
think you read it verbatim how I wrote it, But no,
I really appreciate it. That is, it was a it
was a weird transition. I think at that time a
lot of people don't know I enjoyed LA that's you know,
(03:29):
who I got drafted by. And it was kind of
a weird situation that nobody in today's world of the
MLS would even understand. All the rules and stipulations and
how I ended up at New York. But it was
a blessing in disguise. Like Tab said, it was one
of those things that I think kind of really launched
my career. I mean I was doing, you know, pretty
good at LA and getting to play and things of
(03:51):
that sort, but I was definitely put on a different
pedestal at the MetroStars and to have someone like Tab
to put me under his wing and he helped me
out was it was definitely a blessing. So I appreciate
all the con words Tab, and you know, you have
a lot to do with that, you know, being able
to walk in your footsteps and watch what you did
(04:13):
on the field and how you carried yourself. Definitely, you know,
I think emulated a lot of stuff that I wanted
to do as well.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Well, it worked, he passed it down Tab and Clint
of course became a star for the US during that
two thousand and two World Cup. And on today's show,
we're going to discuss some guys who are hoping to
have their moment in the spotlight this summer in the
twenty twenty six World Cup, including Weston McKenney, who's scoring
goals for fun with Juventus now playing as a number ten.
(04:43):
I'm not sure everybody saw that come. And we'll get
Clint starting eleven for the current US men's national team,
and of course his unique perspective on how this team
would be best in attack, because Clint wasn't just a forward,
he was also a playmaker and he would play out
wide a little bit, so he kind of sees the
game a little bit differently than I think most people do.
(05:03):
And we'll also go inside the locker room with Glint
for some stories including I don't know folks know this,
but he was on the cover of Sports Illustrated pretty
famously back in two thousand and two sporting that mohawk
that became a signature. Look, you were a valuable part
of that team that made it to the quarterfinals and
(05:23):
arguably could have gone even further, maybe even should have
gone even further. Pretty famously outplayed Germany in that quarterfinal game.
So what did make that two thousand and two team
so special?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I mean, I think Bruce, I mean, what he's done
really a great job in his career is managing the
locker room. You know, is he the best tactician or
you know, soccer mind or anything like that. I mean,
that's up for debate on anybody's you know, standpoint of
what they thought of Bruce. But I enjoyed Bruce. I
(05:58):
mean he brought that, you know, that level of respect
in the locker room, that each player valued each other.
But he also got good soccer players. So I think
that that's a mix that you know, maybe we didn't
see all ways in the past. I mean, I bring up,
you know, the the ninety eight World Cup, which I
think TAB would agree was a disaster, and that was
(06:21):
on many levels and things of that's you know standpoint,
But I don't think you really saw that on that
team in two thousand and two. I mean, everybody was
having fun, They enjoyed themselves, they wanted to go win,
and they cared about each other. We were always hanging
out with each other, whether it be in the hotels
on trips or going out to dinner and things of
(06:41):
that sort. So I think Bruce did a really good
job of being a manager in that case when the
American you know, soccer team or the whole portrayal as
a coach, and I think that, you know, you look
across the world it's really you know about managing players,
especially at the level that and what kind of money
these guys are making now. Is being able to manage egos,
(07:04):
being able to steer them in the right, you know,
direction and get to that common common goal. And I
think Bruce, you know, I think did a really good
job there.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
You know, if I could go back a little bit
on that team, because I was, I was part of
that team until two thousand year, is a neat thing
and I want to see if you remember. So I
was on that team through the qualifying process until we
got to the hecks, to the final hex, and I
noticed obviously that you know, Bruce was not playing me
(07:34):
all the time. I used to come into games like
the last twenty minutes. Sometimes I started sometimes and then
sometimes I would come off the bench. And I'm sure
you remember at the time, I have both of my
older kids now we're small at the time, and I
always had them with me, and I really suffered, you know,
traveling and being away from my family a lot. And
then when I noticed that I wasn't going to play
(07:55):
all the time, I went and spoke with Bruce and
it was we're gearing towards that end before the hex came,
which is obviously the most important games. And I said
to Bruce, Hey, Bruce, you know, I went to meet
with him, and I said, hey, Bruce, you know, I
you know, you're not playing me all the time. I
really don't feel like I totally understand it. Respectful of
(08:17):
your your your your opinion, but you know, I just
want to see where you see me between here and
the World Cup, because that would have been my fourth
World Cup. And he said, well, look, I mean I
I like what you have to offer, but I see
you more as coming off the bench holding the bow
for us when we're winning or when we're losing, helping,
you know, to make some plays in the final third.
(08:38):
And I understood that, and I but I at the
same time, you know, and every player is different. You know.
Sometimes you have the veteran players who like taking the
role of Hey, you know, I'm going to be on
the bench and I'm just going to be supportive and
I'm just gonna sit there and watch and when they
need me, I'll come in. And I wasn't that guy.
And I recognized that I wasn't that guy. And I
said to Bruce, I said, well, Bruce, listen. If that's
(08:59):
the case, everything is good. But after this round, I'm
just gonna retire. And you know, I remember this because
sometimes you also want the coaches saying, oh no, please,
don't retire. But he didn't say that. He was like, well,
you know, if that's how you feel about it, you know,
and that's how you feel that this is gonna serve
(09:19):
you best, he goes, you know, then I will support
you in that. And so the reason I'm telling this
story not about me, but because my last game, in
the last game of that round before we went into
the hex, was in Barbados against Barbados, and Clint, you
scored your first international goal that day on my last
(09:39):
game with the national team, so we have a little
bit more of a connection. Actually, that ball of that
game that you scored the goal with is right here,
right behind me, right over my left shoulder. So yeah,
so good story with your beginning of your great international
career and my end.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah no, that is a good story. Remember uh that
goal and actually my leg I got I remember that
game that I might remember more than the goal, as
I got studded pretty good about halfway up my leg
and I still have that to where like the capsule
that holds your calf. I guess that ripped and I
had like a golf ball sticking out at halftime, and
(10:19):
I remember the trainer Rick Gooters like, oh yes, just
your muscle popping out. I was like, all right, no
big deal, let's just move on.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And by the way, we were zero zero in that
game a half. I started that game, yes, and we
were zero zero at halftime. It needed to win that game,
which we ended up winning four zero. But but yeah,
it was not easy.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, no, the field did The field didn't help.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, I mean that was a pure cocky field. It
was a cow past year. And I remember watching that
one and being nervous, and then I think the first
goal was clean set about the hour mark, and then
the floodgates opened. You guys were spun that forward into
the hecks and the hexs was up and down, but
you got through it. And then when you got to
the World Cup, you know, made it all the way
to the quarterfinals, and it's the one World Cup that
(11:06):
I think people for the US US fans consider to
be unambiguously successful. Bitterness over how it ended, the referee
not calling that obvious handball on torsed and springs, but
pride and success nonetheless, and it's always been shades of
grace since then to one degree or another. And that
brings us to this summer because we have players now
(11:27):
playing some of the biggest clubs in the world and
not just playing bit parts, right like Christian Poolisic is
one of the best players for AC Milan and Weston McKenny,
who I already mentioned scoring for fun for Juventus and
playing a bigger and bigger role seemingly by the week.
So given that, what is the barometer for success for
(11:49):
the US at the World Cup this summer? Does it
have to be at least quarterfinals or like, do you
have to go further than the previous do you have
to go all the way to the semi final? Where
is that bar for you guys?
Speaker 3 (12:03):
I mean, I think you just look at through the
history of this team or whatever, and the furthest that
you know the teams have made it is the quarterfinals,
and every team's come up short. Granted you know that
two thousand and two team. I think people think you
got stiffed or whatever. But the game is the game
and whether you get through that, if we would have
(12:26):
scored three goals, nobody would have been talking about the handball,
So it is unfortunate that you know, that did happen,
and you know we were the better team. I mean
I remember even the German players even admitting that and
telling some of the guys that, you know, the Claudia Arenas,
the other players that played against those guys and with
those guys in Germany, was like, yeah, you guys were
(12:46):
the better team, but it wasn't our day, so it
was unfortunate. So I mean, I don't really look at
it as a success of failure. You never know who
you're gonna get when you get out of group play,
per se, or you don't. It's any even Sunday, like
any sport, So you want to go out there and really,
as far as success, you want to make to that quarterfinals.
(13:07):
But I mean you want to see them go all
the way. But is that going to happen. Nobody's gonna know.
I mean, in two thousand and two, nobody would have
thought England, Argentina, France wouldn't have made it out of
their group play. But now you got a team the US,
You got South Korea making it out of their group
with Portugal in it, and so it is one of
(13:31):
those weird things. And I think the level of soccer,
you know, from a world standpoint, has gotten better. I mean,
just look at us here in Conca calf when you
could literally go all right, US and Mexico, we're going
to go through, no problem, no big deal. Now we're struggling,
you know, sometimes against you know, these Central American teams,
and it's just goes to show that the sport itself
(13:55):
has gotten better worldwide. So I think as far as
just getting out of the group and then taking it
step by step and knowing that it's game, game to game,
I think that this team does have the potential to
do things, but it's about stepping on that stage and
not worrying about, you know, the surroundings or you know,
putting pressure on yourself. I mean, I go back to
(14:16):
two thousand and two, and that was one good thing
that I think that I was good at my career
is not putting any pressure. I was always joking. That's
how the mohawk came about. I was trying to get
the guys laughing. I don't think it made Bruce laugh
too well, because I ended up showing up late to
that team meeting because we thought it was thirty minutes later.
(14:38):
But that's another story in itself. But it's just about
making the guys laugh and not worry about it. Just
go out and have fun and play. And that's what
my mom always taught me, you know, And that's when
you're gonna play your best. That's what I tell my
kids now. No matter what you do, go have fun
doing it, because that's when you're really gonna thrive and
shine because once pressure sets in, just to your live.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, And uh, I mean I couldn't agree with that more.
And obviously, you know, that's the one thing about Clint
that always stood out to me was that nothing was
too big for him, you know, and he Clint would
come in and regardless of the game, regardless of the pressure,
regardless And I think you'll remember this, Clint, right before
you ended up going to Hanover that you know, Bayron
(15:23):
Munich obviously was really interested in you and all of
those things. You know, Clint was really the guy in
US soccer that everyone was looking looking at and looking after.
And I don't remember Clint ever changing at all. I
remember being his roommate and him always being the same
and we always had sort of that that type of relationship.
(15:45):
And now you know, I'll go back to the story
now that actually has nothing to do with this World Cup.
But you know, later on I became you know, technical
director youth national team and the under twenty coach, and
I broke Clint with me on a trip. Clint, if
you remember, we were in Atalanta in Italy. We're getting
read to play at the lant time. We're training at
this facility out in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by horses.
(16:07):
Let's see if you can read, if you can call
this story right. And so what I did with all
the coaches is before before we start the training sessions,
the coaches would get there early. We'd set up the
whole field and then we'd play soccer golf. So it
didn't matter if it was you know, if I brought
on Landon Donovan or Clint or whoever it was. The
assistant coaches. We would all get together. We each have
a ball and we'd say, okay, now you got to
(16:29):
bend the ball around that goal and then on the
second touch you got to put it into the d.
On the third touch you got to put it into
let's say the goal only hitting the net, right, So
you make up all these things that we play soccer golf.
But I don't know if I don't know, if you
remember it was you and I and Tony Miola and
we're playing soccer golf, and you know, I think you
(16:50):
kick off and it's like, you know, you had to
hit a fifty yard ball. And then I'd go next,
and I hit like a fifty yard ball, and then
Tony comes on in shanks one.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
And by the way, Tony hit a great ball, but
shanks it, and see shanks it. Do you remember what happened?
I'll try shanks it. There's a horse in the background
that goes like, oh.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you were dying laughing because like a
jackass right right. It was like the horse is paying attention.
When Tony shank that ball, that horse right away made
that noise. It was the funniest moment I had with
the youth national teams. That's good stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Keeping it loose is gonna be key for any team
that wants like you never hear a story about a
team that goes into a tournament does well. It says, yeah,
we were tight the whole time, Like there's always a
certain level of camaraderie and everybody being on the same page.
It's what we're hoping for from the US men's national
team this summer. Guys who are gonna be playing key role.
(17:50):
I already mentioned a couple of times. Wes McKenny doing
really well for u Ventus right now. They have reportedly
offered him a four year contract and now want to
make him a centerpiece, which is something that it felt
like he was never going to happen for Weston. He
had to come in and prove himself over and over
and over again to one new coach after another. Now
(18:12):
there's inter Milan rumors as well, they may try to
swoop and because he is out of contract this summer. Technically,
what did we think, like what role should Weston play?
And do you want to see him stay with Juventus?
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I mean, for me, I look at it as it's
always easier looking from the outside end. You don't know
what's going on behind closed doors or anything like that.
I honestly won't what's best for him. If it's something
where he feels like at his point of his career,
if he wants to make it change, so be it.
(18:46):
I mean I think I learned this a long time ago,
with a little help from Tab as well. But nowadays
loyalty is out the window. I mean people expect that
loyalty to be from players, but it's not recipile it.
And so, you know, what loyalty is there for Western
or you know, it's what's going to be best for
him and his family and his future. And and the
(19:08):
only person that's really going to know that is Weston.
So there's going to be shame whether he stays. There's
going to be shame whether he leaves. But I honestly
just want what's happy for him and what he thinks
what's best for him and his future, you know, moving forward.
If that's somewhere that he's comfortable and he thinks that
(19:29):
he's going to you know, play better, get more minutes,
I mean that can change at the drop of a hat.
But I think that that's something that you know, he
needs to think through and say, hey, is it time
for a change. Do I want to push myself to
try another team, try another league? You know, where where
does that sit with him? So? Uh, that's that's really
(19:51):
the advice that I could give him is like, don't
worry about what people are telling you what to do
and what you should do. Just think about what's best
for you right now now and what's gonna you know,
keep you mentally right because as tap can at test,
you know, in a blink of an eye, this career
is gone, and so you're always looking back going could
(20:13):
I have done this? Could I have done that? Should
I have done this? At that point it doesn't matter.
So when when you do have it in the in
the palm of your hands, you know, think what how
this is going to affect you in the future and
what's going to make you happy, because that's going to
you know, drive the career longer. Happiness is is what
this everybody in this world needs and so you need
(20:36):
to find what's going to make you happy in that
regards and not about putting you know, these great patches
of of all these great clubs wherever, because at the
end of the day, it's going to be gone.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, I mean Matt, you know, Uh Weston is in
a great situation right now. He's been the best player
for you vent this over the last two months. Uh,
you vent this fell asleep on this one big time.
This is something that they should have done likely about
six to eight weeks ago and now they're in a
tough situation. I think the offer, I'm sure I've seen
(21:09):
the same you've seen. The offer seems like a pretty
good offer for Weston for multiple years. I would like
to see that happen because it seems like Juventus is
really putting their foot forward and making a good effort
to pay them like a true international star player, which
he deserves to be. And I'm not surprised that other
(21:31):
teams are in at this point. You know, Western's in
a great situation and and he'll have plenty of teams
to choose from, but haven't said that. I mean, you know,
the value that he has for Juventus. I mean, let's
you know, you look over the last two months. He's
played three or four different positions for them and has
done well in all of them. And I think he's
invaluable and I and I think they will do if
(21:53):
if Western McKinney ends up leaving Juventus is not going
to be because Juventus hasn't tried their absolute best to ca.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, especially now that he is playing not just the
utility role though, as he said, he does play three
or four different positions, but he's become a centerpiece player. Right,
They're finally putting him in position not just to cover
for other players deficiencies, but in a position to sort
of maximize his skill set with that box arrival, his
ability to pick the last past. It's fun to see.
(22:22):
It's also what we've seen from ac Milan with Christian
Polistic the past couple of years. Now, there are some
reports out of Italian media. I'm gonna call him dubious, right,
They're not as well sourced as the stuff around Weston
at this point, saying that Tottenham Hotspur have identified Christian
as one of their primary transfer targets this summer. You
(22:46):
understand why, given how much they're struggling Spurs, and given
how good Christian has been, given that he has experience
in the Premier League and has played really well at
times for Chelsea. Do we want that to happen or
is that something where you know what you have it
(23:09):
good with a great team in Ace Mulan, you know,
ride that and become a legend there, rather than trying
to salvage something with Spurs.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, I mean, I agree with what you're saying. I mean,
it's one of those things that you know is Spurs
obviously trying to rekindle everything what they had you know
during the Harry Kane times and things of that that sort.
I go back to what I said about Weston. You know,
Christians should be selfish and what makes him happy. It's
(23:43):
not just because you know it be like a squirrel
and every golden shiny thing you go to chase. He's
proven that he can play in that in the Premier League.
He did it with Chelsea. You know, maybe he didn't
get you know, all of the chance says and all
of the playing time that maybe he should or he
is getting at a C. Milan and then that does
(24:06):
that does come into a factor. So I think that
that's one of those things too. From from his standpoint,
you know, is it going to be a money grab
and say hey, I would like to go back to England.
Maybe he misses it. Who knows. That's something that he's
going to decide. But you know it's about, you know,
once again, what's going to make him happy during his
(24:28):
playing time. Is it to stay somewhere where he's playing
and comfortable and doing well. Is it something where he
just stays in Italy and maybe goes to another team
like you know Weston's looking at as well, because that
is a big jump, especially when you know you're used
to a certain playing style, which we all know that
playing in Italy is definitely going to be different than
(24:49):
playing in the Premier League. Do I think Christian can
do it, Absolutely, but it's going to be more of
something that I think that he needs to make that
more selfish decision of of where he's going to be happiest.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, and I'll make it sure. I mean, obviously I
agree with all of that. You know, money obviously is
a factor. You know, I don't think that Milan would
be able to match an offer that potentially, you know, uh,
Tottenham could put put on the table. Christian has been
in the in the Premier League before. That helps. He's
done great in Italy now, which means that even if
(25:23):
he went to England, he could always come back to Italy.
I'm sure. But you know, having said all those things,
you know, I've been sort of against Christian leaving Syria
because he's done so well in it and he's comfortable there.
As Clint said, at the same time, you know, if
you could look at you know, the future there and
potentially Solaki with with Chabi Simmons and Polisic behind, it's
(25:45):
not so bad either, you know, And that's a good
opportunity for him as well, to play. By the way,
it's the best, you know, the EPL is the best
league in the world, so it would be a great
opportunity for him. But I think at this point, you know,
looking at it from the outside, staying in Melon seems
to be the right thing.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah, he's done well there. Milan for my money, better
city than London. But you know, not everybody feels that
way necessarily. But for us, it's time for a break.
We'll be right back and get into Clinton starting eleven
for the US men's national team. In the meantime, please rate,
review and subscribe to Inside American Soccer. But Tom Boger
(26:23):
and Todd Ramos wherever you get your podcasts. All right,
welcome back to Inside American Soccer. We're here with Clint
Mathis and Clint we want to get your thoughts on
(26:44):
the best starting eleven for the US for this World Cup.
So my friend take it away.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
All right, Well, you gotta bear with me. I'm not
gonna be as knowledgeable as everyone, all the viewers out there.
I do have four kids, so it's not the easiest
to keep up with all the soccer.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
One of them, work one of them into the lineup
and we'll give you that pass exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
All right, Well, I got freeze in gold and then
we'll go from left to right. Left back with Anthony Robinson.
I still like Tim Reien in there, just because he
has that veteran side of him. He holds the fort
down really well. And then putting Richards beside him to
add a little speed there. And then I still like
(27:30):
Desk on the right. I think he's a great player.
He's able to get up and down on that right side.
He'd al we's seen. I know he's at PSV now,
but just bringing back his Barcelona days watching him, so
I like him there. I'm gonna throw Tyler Adams in
that holding spot. I like Tyler being able to hold
(27:51):
the fort down and right beside him. The reason I
want Tyler there is having McKenny right beside him. But
give McKenny a role where he's free to go forward more,
you know, more of that up and down midfielder where
Tyler can hold the fort down a little bit more.
And then right in front of them, I think, you know,
just from the little bit that I've seen him play,
(28:13):
I think he's done real well as Tilman, so I
think he would be a good one holding it up there.
You could also put Christian in that same role where
Tilman is, but I think from what we've seen push
Tino do is having him out on the left side
sometimes on the right side, I think he does a
great job coming in, So I'll put Christian on that
(28:35):
left side, kind of like as that winger forward that
has a little bit more freedom, kind of like a
landing sometimes when he would play out out on the
wide being able to come in underneath on the right side.
I will go with Weeya. I like his speed and
I think him and Desk would be able to be
able to interchange a lot. Weya still has the engine
(28:57):
to be able to get back where him and could
intertwine there and then put Baligan up top. I think
that he's been real consistent from the games that I've
gotten to see, so that would be my starting eleven.
So this is the World Cup as of today.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, So so this is interesting because you know, we've
all been talking about potentially the three or five in
the back right because that's what Pochettino has changed to
over the last couple of months, and he's been successful
with that. To be fair, this is also not a
bad way to look at it, because if you think
about it, you know, our first two games being Paraguay
(29:36):
and Australia, it's likely that we're gonna need more attacking players. So, yeah,
you know, Pulisic coming inside and playing sort of a
little bit of a ten role right instead of being
all the way wide and then way I be in
on the on the right side with desk overlapping and
the two of them changing. Is is certainly something that
could that could give other teams fits. I'm more of
(30:00):
the idea that we, you know, having Reim on the
field sort of obligates us to play three center backs
instead of two to protect him a little bit more.
But of course everybody's gonna have different ways to go
about it, and obviously it depends on the opponent as well.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah, Clint, you you played, as tab was saying, all
over the place, right, You played underneath two forwards, You
played as a second forward a lot, you even played
as a center forward in my like, where would you
fit best in this lineup? And do you see anyone
like Christian kind of has some of the same skills
(30:41):
that you had in terms of finding space, picking the
ball up underneath a big target forward. Is that something
that you notice when you watch him?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Oh? For sure, I think that that would be a
great spot for him. I mean I just remember starting off,
and you know, obviously with Tab being on the show,
but I just remember Tab saying, hey, just get open.
He goes, I don't care where you go, just you
have the freedom to run everywhere. Our Tavio's Imbrano was
our coach, and he goes, Clint, I'm just putting you
on the field. Just get open and do what you
(31:11):
gotta do. And you know, I was luckily to have
a player like Tab, you know that was underneath that
had that freedom too. But he was really that playmaker
and at the time to where he said, Clint, get open,
I'll get you the ball and then once you get
the ball, just go do your thing. And so I
see Christian is one of those players that has that
ability to do that. And you know with having the Adams,
(31:35):
you know, off the lineup that I mentioned, having a
Weston behind him, if I was those two guys I
would say, hey, we're going to be the workhorses for
you here, Christian. We want you to have that freedom,
save your energy defensively and things of that sort. If Tyler,
you know, cheats out a little bit left or whatever
to give him more of that freedom, I think they're
(31:55):
fine there. Or if it's a Weston that cheats, I
think both of those guys can you know, definitely intertwine
and hold that position down. And then you look at
a guy like Tilman, I mean he can even squeeze
out on to the left and you know, use his
size and things of that sort to help out. But
I definitely see Christian being one of those players that
is underneath, you know, a big forward that's just picking
(32:18):
up little balls, whether it's flick ons or whether Baligan
wins the header or not. You know, kind of like
I used to do a lot with you know, Brian
McBride up top. You know, I didn't know where the
ball was gonna end up. I tried to get to
flick or if it got knocked down or anything. You know,
you're just trying to pick up whatever trash you can
right there. And then that just leaves the defense vulnerable
because they're not set, they're not organized because they don't
(32:41):
know where the ball is. And a lot of times
you can break out and you know, get a get
a one on one with a goalkeeper there, or at
least a one on one with a last defender or
anything like that. So I definitely see, you know, Christian
in that type of role. I put him out on
the left now just because that's what we've seen as
far as on paper, but I think that he should
(33:02):
have more of that freedom to be just like a
roamer type of a player. I mean, you see it
in Messy. I mean not to compare the two or
anything like that, but you know they try to just say, hey,
you know, Messy, do your thing when you get the ball,
but you know we're going to cover you defensively. Not
that you know he's older now and who he is,
but even as a younger player, I think that you know,
(33:22):
you look back in the day that yes, he would
work hard defensively and things of that trail and try
to help out and show where he should be. But
for the most part, when you have special players like that,
I think it's good to try to take some of
that extra load defensively off because it does make a
big difference when you know they do have that freedom
(33:43):
to go forward. Because the hardest part about it is
it's scoring a goal. It's not, you know, necessarily defending
the goal. It is hard to do that as well,
but to get one in the back of the net
you can endo game one zero if you're organized and whatnot.
But that he should have more of that freedom.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
All right, it's time for one more break for us.
We'll be right back with a story about Clint being
on the cover of Sports Illustrated back in the day.
Thanks for listening to Inside American Soccer. Please rate, review
and subscribe. Welcome back to Inside American Soccer with Tom
(34:31):
Boger and Tabraamos. I am Matt Doyle hosting for Tom.
We're joined by Clinton Mathis, cover boy of Sports Illustrator
almost twenty five years ago now. And you could tell
it was in days long past because when I was
talking about that cover earlier in the show, I remembered you,
Clint having the.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Mohawk while you were on the cover.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
But you could see clearly this was from before you
had the mohawks. So, first of all, tell us about
how this unfolded. You ending up on the cover and
what the reaction of the rest of the guys was,
and then tell us about the mohawk and the process
for deciding to pretty famously. I think he had the
second most famous haircut at that World Cup behind a
(35:17):
certain guy from Brazil, gotcha.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
So yeah, through this we were preparing for the World Cup,
A lot of media stuff is going on as tap
kind of test, and they were doing photo shoots and
things of that, and actually they didn't know who was
going to be on the cover yet. There was a
possibility myself landing and DeMarcus Beasley also did which ended
up coming out for ESPN magazine. We were on the
(35:42):
cover of that, and they were like, oh, are we gonna,
you know, have Clint on the cover of this. He
was just on the cover of that, So they didn't
know what they were going to do, and then I
ended up getting the call that it was gonna happen,
which was cool. It was before obviously the World Cup
and before or the mohawk, because I had no intentions
(36:03):
to do a mohawk er. It wasn't really pre planned
or anything like that. Pretty much like my whole life
and my career was was just flying by the seat
of my pants and you know, surprising people with stuff
they agreed with and stuff they mostly disagreed with, and
this was one of those instances. Yeah, it was fun.
(36:23):
It was cool. Right before we leave to go to
the World Cup. A funny story about Sports Illustrated. I
ended up finding out that they were talking about putting
me on the cover back to back issues, which has
never happened at Sports Illustrated at that time. I don't
know if it has now where an athlete did back
to back covers on Sports Illustrated, but I guess some
(36:46):
things happened. I did not start the first game, and
then that's when Landing came on the cover, so it
was good to have another soccer player in Landing beyond
that next cover whatever. But a funny side note, that
could have been back to back, but cars didn't follow
in my favor, which is okay. I enjoyed that one
(37:08):
because I at least I have Kobe Bryant on the
cover with me and the little snippet and up lose that.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
But anyway, what you know, I just I wish people
could imagine how big that was at the time, right
because now we're a little bit more used to seeing soccer,
you know, being featured in stories and in magazines and
obviously all over social media. But at that time, that
was so huge to have a soccer player on the cover,
(37:37):
you know that I wish people could sort of understand,
like the moment and how big it was.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
No, it was really cool. I mean I grew up
seeing people on the cover of Sports illustrateds, cover of
wheaties boxes, things of that sort. And like you said,
you do see more soccer now because it is more
mainstream than what it was back in our day. Tab
but yeah, that was one of the things. And I
don't remember what the numbers were, but there was only
a handful of soccer players that have ever been on
(38:04):
the cover. I think Ernie was back in ninety four.
I think Maridonna was one time, maybe Pele, So there
was only a handful at that time. So it was
a great honor for me to you know, be captured
and be asked to be on that cover. And it's
one of those things that's still come up, Like you said,
twenty five years ago, it still comes up now to
(38:25):
where all of a sudden, I'll get even here at
my office I'll get a package because I'm glad they
don't know my home address, but I'll get some package
here or whatever, and it says, oh, you please sign
this Sports Illustrated cover and that type of thing. So
it is one of those one of those cool things
that don't really happen too much in people's lives. So
(38:47):
I do cherish that and I'll never forget that. It's
pretty cool, pretty cool moment.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Nothing but support inside the locker room. After that, I imagine, ah.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Yeah, well they're probably getting fun, and I think on
the inside of Sports Illustrated, I'm sitting in the back
of a pickup truck. Because I was always the redneck
on the team, and that's how I ended up getting
my nickname. Cletus was from Paul Kallajeri when I go
straight from my roots of Georgia to Los Angeles to
play for the Galaxy of ninety eight. So yeah, a
(39:19):
lot of little redneck and making fun of my twaying
and stuff like that, but I rolled with it.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
It's authentic. It makes you stand out. So we're going
to close the show, and I want to ask you
before we go, what is your prediction for the US
national team this summer at the World Cup. Like I
said at the start, you guys laid a marker with
that quarterfinal run twenty four years ago, trying to equal
or better it this summer, I think the boys will
(39:46):
be doing what is your prediction, Quinn.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
I think they can make it to the quarterfinals and
get through that. Obviously it's going to be dependent on
obviously injuries things of that sort. But I think the
team gets through the group, see who that draw is,
they win that game, and then I think that that's
where the pressure sets in. I think this group, you know,
probably has a little pressure to do a little bit better.
(40:09):
I think we do have the players the experience, which
you know, most most of the previous World Cup teams
don't have that world experience. And we talk about all
these guys that are playing in the big leagues in
Europe and stuff like that. So I see them getting
to the quarterfinals and maybe squeaking through and having our
first semi finals.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Yeah that, I mean, that's a great prediction. And I
do think and I'm not sure if you were going
in this direction or not, but I do think that
you know, as a an American team, we have always
been a great underdog, and unfortunately in this World Cup
we're not going to be the underdog for a while.
So but if we do get to that quarterfinal game,
I think the pressure will finally be off. And if
(40:51):
at that point we're playing a quarterfinal game with the
pressure off, watch out for the US team.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Absolutely, from your lips to God's ears, let's hope that's
how it plays out. Voice and to all our listeners,
thank you so much for listening to Inside American Soccer.
Please rate, review, and subscribe, and please continue to leave
your questions and comments on all of our platforms, Twitter, Instagram,
TikTok and YouTube, tab and I. We'll be back next week. Clinton,
(41:20):
thank you so much for joining us. Folks. We will
see you next time.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Thanks Glad, Thank you guys,
I've been fortunate enough to play with great American players,
some of the greatest American players of all time, and
what I can say about that is that none of
them had all of the tools in the toolbox that
Clint Math has had.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Greetings, folks, and welcome to Inside American Soccer. I'm Matt Doyley,
armchair analyst, and I'll be filling in for new dad
Tom Bogert for a couple more weeks. Reports out of
the Boger household have indicated no strife early days after
the transfer window move for Young THEO. I am honored
(00:36):
to be joined by my new friend, one of the
greatest players in US soccer history, a veteran of three
World Cups, you can say, the face of the national
team in the nineteen nineties tab Ramos, and where joined
by a guy who might have been the face of
the national team for part at least of the two thousand.
It's an incredible guest, another US soccer legend, an MLS
(00:58):
Cup champion, and one of the greatest metro stars.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Of all time.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Clint mathis gentlemen, it is wonderful to be here with
the two of you.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Oh, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Clint, Yeah,
thank you so much for coming on. Obviously, I don't
I don't really know where to start with you, because
it is a little bit difficult for me. Clint and
I were roommates with the Metro Stars for a little while,
and then, you know, I was so happy to see
like that was his sort of where his career started
(01:29):
to lift into international stardom, and I had an opportunity
to live a little bit of that with Clint in
the room, with him eating all the jelly beans possible
that he could eat. And I have to say this.
I couldn't start the show by not if I didn't
say that Clint has been my favorite American player of
(01:52):
all time. And I know that everyone has different lists,
and everyone can judge different people according to stats or
how long their career was, or what teams they were on,
or whatever else. But I can tell you that I've
been fortunate enough to play with great American players and
some of the greatest American players of all time, and
(02:13):
what I can say about that is that none of
them had all of the tools in the toolbox that
Clint math has had, starting from his great technical ability,
his speed, his ability to process information on the field,
to deliver a pass, the quality and pace of a pass.
He was good in the air. He could take a
(02:33):
free kick with the right foot or the left foot,
which no one can do. I mean, I could go
on and on is dribbling. Everything Clint did was amazing.
And on top of it, he was a down to
earth person with a huge heart who always spoke about
his mom. We talked about his mom and Georgia in
the room all the time. You know, Clint, I'm so
(02:57):
happy to have you here. And for all those ads
out there who don't know as much about you, I
really wish they did.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I appreciate it. It does sound like tab you did
get the brown envelope that sent before the show, So
I appreciate that. So you went right on Q. I
think you read it verbatim how I wrote it, But no,
I really appreciate it. That is, it was a it
was a weird transition. I think at that time a
lot of people don't know I enjoyed LA that's you know,
(03:29):
who I got drafted by. And it was kind of
a weird situation that nobody in today's world of the
MLS would even understand. All the rules and stipulations and
how I ended up at New York. But it was
a blessing in disguise. Like Tab said, it was one
of those things that I think kind of really launched
my career. I mean I was doing, you know, pretty
good at LA and getting to play and things of
(03:51):
that sort, but I was definitely put on a different
pedestal at the MetroStars and to have someone like Tab
to put me under his wing and he helped me
out was it was definitely a blessing. So I appreciate
all the con words Tab, and you know, you have
a lot to do with that, you know, being able
to walk in your footsteps and watch what you did
(04:13):
on the field and how you carried yourself. Definitely, you know,
I think emulated a lot of stuff that I wanted
to do as well.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Well, it worked, he passed it down Tab and Clint
of course became a star for the US during that
two thousand and two World Cup. And on today's show,
we're going to discuss some guys who are hoping to
have their moment in the spotlight this summer in the
twenty twenty six World Cup, including Weston McKenney, who's scoring
goals for fun with Juventus now playing as a number ten.
(04:43):
I'm not sure everybody saw that come. And we'll get
Clint starting eleven for the current US men's national team,
and of course his unique perspective on how this team
would be best in attack, because Clint wasn't just a forward,
he was also a playmaker and he would play out
wide a little bit, so he kind of sees the
game a little bit differently than I think most people do.
(05:03):
And we'll also go inside the locker room with Glint
for some stories including I don't know folks know this,
but he was on the cover of Sports Illustrated pretty
famously back in two thousand and two sporting that mohawk
that became a signature. Look, you were a valuable part
of that team that made it to the quarterfinals and
(05:23):
arguably could have gone even further, maybe even should have
gone even further. Pretty famously outplayed Germany in that quarterfinal game.
So what did make that two thousand and two team
so special?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I mean, I think Bruce, I mean, what he's done
really a great job in his career is managing the
locker room. You know, is he the best tactician or
you know, soccer mind or anything like that. I mean,
that's up for debate on anybody's you know, standpoint of
what they thought of Bruce. But I enjoyed Bruce. I
(05:58):
mean he brought that, you know, that level of respect
in the locker room, that each player valued each other.
But he also got good soccer players. So I think
that that's a mix that you know, maybe we didn't
see all ways in the past. I mean, I bring up,
you know, the the ninety eight World Cup, which I
think TAB would agree was a disaster, and that was
(06:21):
on many levels and things of that's you know standpoint,
But I don't think you really saw that on that
team in two thousand and two. I mean, everybody was
having fun, They enjoyed themselves, they wanted to go win,
and they cared about each other. We were always hanging
out with each other, whether it be in the hotels
on trips or going out to dinner and things of
(06:41):
that sort. So I think Bruce did a really good
job of being a manager in that case when the
American you know, soccer team or the whole portrayal as
a coach, and I think that, you know, you look
across the world it's really you know about managing players,
especially at the level that and what kind of money
these guys are making now. Is being able to manage egos,
(07:04):
being able to steer them in the right, you know,
direction and get to that common common goal. And I
think Bruce, you know, I think did a really good
job there.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
You know, if I could go back a little bit
on that team, because I was, I was part of
that team until two thousand year, is a neat thing
and I want to see if you remember. So I
was on that team through the qualifying process until we
got to the hecks, to the final hex, and I
noticed obviously that you know, Bruce was not playing me
(07:34):
all the time. I used to come into games like
the last twenty minutes. Sometimes I started sometimes and then
sometimes I would come off the bench. And I'm sure
you remember at the time, I have both of my
older kids now we're small at the time, and I
always had them with me, and I really suffered, you know,
traveling and being away from my family a lot. And
then when I noticed that I wasn't going to play
(07:55):
all the time, I went and spoke with Bruce and
it was we're gearing towards that end before the hex came,
which is obviously the most important games. And I said
to Bruce, Hey, Bruce, you know, I went to meet
with him, and I said, hey, Bruce, you know, I
you know, you're not playing me all the time. I
really don't feel like I totally understand it. Respectful of
(08:17):
your your your your opinion, but you know, I just
want to see where you see me between here and
the World Cup, because that would have been my fourth
World Cup. And he said, well, look, I mean I
I like what you have to offer, but I see
you more as coming off the bench holding the bow
for us when we're winning or when we're losing, helping,
you know, to make some plays in the final third.
(08:38):
And I understood that, and I but I at the
same time, you know, and every player is different. You know.
Sometimes you have the veteran players who like taking the
role of Hey, you know, I'm going to be on
the bench and I'm just going to be supportive and
I'm just gonna sit there and watch and when they
need me, I'll come in. And I wasn't that guy.
And I recognized that I wasn't that guy. And I
said to Bruce, I said, well, Bruce, listen. If that's
(08:59):
the case, everything is good. But after this round, I'm
just gonna retire. And you know, I remember this because
sometimes you also want the coaches saying, oh no, please,
don't retire. But he didn't say that. He was like, well,
you know, if that's how you feel about it, you know,
and that's how you feel that this is gonna serve
(09:19):
you best, he goes, you know, then I will support
you in that. And so the reason I'm telling this
story not about me, but because my last game, in
the last game of that round before we went into
the hex, was in Barbados against Barbados, and Clint, you
scored your first international goal that day on my last
(09:39):
game with the national team, so we have a little
bit more of a connection. Actually, that ball of that
game that you scored the goal with is right here,
right behind me, right over my left shoulder. So yeah,
so good story with your beginning of your great international
career and my end.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah no, that is a good story. Remember uh that
goal and actually my leg I got I remember that
game that I might remember more than the goal, as
I got studded pretty good about halfway up my leg
and I still have that to where like the capsule
that holds your calf. I guess that ripped and I
had like a golf ball sticking out at halftime, and
(10:19):
I remember the trainer Rick Gooters like, oh yes, just
your muscle popping out. I was like, all right, no
big deal, let's just move on.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And by the way, we were zero zero in that
game a half. I started that game, yes, and we
were zero zero at halftime. It needed to win that game,
which we ended up winning four zero. But but yeah,
it was not easy.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, no, the field did The field didn't help.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, I mean that was a pure cocky field. It
was a cow past year. And I remember watching that
one and being nervous, and then I think the first
goal was clean set about the hour mark, and then
the floodgates opened. You guys were spun that forward into
the hecks and the hexs was up and down, but
you got through it. And then when you got to
the World Cup, you know, made it all the way
to the quarterfinals, and it's the one World Cup that
(11:06):
I think people for the US US fans consider to
be unambiguously successful. Bitterness over how it ended, the referee
not calling that obvious handball on torsed and springs, but
pride and success nonetheless, and it's always been shades of
grace since then to one degree or another. And that
brings us to this summer because we have players now
(11:27):
playing some of the biggest clubs in the world and
not just playing bit parts, right like Christian Poolisic is
one of the best players for AC Milan and Weston McKenny,
who I already mentioned scoring for fun for Juventus and
playing a bigger and bigger role seemingly by the week.
So given that, what is the barometer for success for
(11:49):
the US at the World Cup this summer? Does it
have to be at least quarterfinals or like, do you
have to go further than the previous do you have
to go all the way to the semi final? Where
is that bar for you guys?
Speaker 3 (12:03):
I mean, I think you just look at through the
history of this team or whatever, and the furthest that
you know the teams have made it is the quarterfinals,
and every team's come up short. Granted you know that
two thousand and two team. I think people think you
got stiffed or whatever. But the game is the game
and whether you get through that, if we would have
(12:26):
scored three goals, nobody would have been talking about the handball,
So it is unfortunate that you know, that did happen,
and you know we were the better team. I mean
I remember even the German players even admitting that and
telling some of the guys that, you know, the Claudia Arenas,
the other players that played against those guys and with
those guys in Germany, was like, yeah, you guys were
(12:46):
the better team, but it wasn't our day, so it
was unfortunate. So I mean, I don't really look at
it as a success of failure. You never know who
you're gonna get when you get out of group play,
per se, or you don't. It's any even Sunday, like
any sport, So you want to go out there and really,
as far as success, you want to make to that quarterfinals.
(13:07):
But I mean you want to see them go all
the way. But is that going to happen. Nobody's gonna know.
I mean, in two thousand and two, nobody would have
thought England, Argentina, France wouldn't have made it out of
their group play. But now you got a team the US,
You got South Korea making it out of their group
with Portugal in it, and so it is one of
(13:31):
those weird things. And I think the level of soccer,
you know, from a world standpoint, has gotten better. I mean,
just look at us here in Conca calf when you
could literally go all right, US and Mexico, we're going
to go through, no problem, no big deal. Now we're struggling,
you know, sometimes against you know, these Central American teams,
and it's just goes to show that the sport itself
(13:55):
has gotten better worldwide. So I think as far as
just getting out of the group and then taking it
step by step and knowing that it's game, game to game,
I think that this team does have the potential to
do things, but it's about stepping on that stage and
not worrying about, you know, the surroundings or you know,
putting pressure on yourself. I mean, I go back to
(14:16):
two thousand and two, and that was one good thing
that I think that I was good at my career
is not putting any pressure. I was always joking. That's
how the mohawk came about. I was trying to get
the guys laughing. I don't think it made Bruce laugh
too well, because I ended up showing up late to
that team meeting because we thought it was thirty minutes later.
(14:38):
But that's another story in itself. But it's just about
making the guys laugh and not worry about it. Just
go out and have fun and play. And that's what
my mom always taught me, you know, And that's when
you're gonna play your best. That's what I tell my
kids now. No matter what you do, go have fun
doing it, because that's when you're really gonna thrive and
shine because once pressure sets in, just to your live.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, And uh, I mean I couldn't agree with that more.
And obviously, you know, that's the one thing about Clint
that always stood out to me was that nothing was
too big for him, you know, and he Clint would
come in and regardless of the game, regardless of the pressure,
regardless And I think you'll remember this, Clint, right before
you ended up going to Hanover that you know, Bayron
(15:23):
Munich obviously was really interested in you and all of
those things. You know, Clint was really the guy in
US soccer that everyone was looking looking at and looking after.
And I don't remember Clint ever changing at all. I
remember being his roommate and him always being the same
and we always had sort of that that type of relationship.
(15:45):
And now you know, I'll go back to the story
now that actually has nothing to do with this World Cup.
But you know, later on I became you know, technical
director youth national team and the under twenty coach, and
I broke Clint with me on a trip. Clint, if
you remember, we were in Atalanta in Italy. We're getting
read to play at the lant time. We're training at
this facility out in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by horses.
(16:07):
Let's see if you can read, if you can call
this story right. And so what I did with all
the coaches is before before we start the training sessions,
the coaches would get there early. We'd set up the
whole field and then we'd play soccer golf. So it
didn't matter if it was you know, if I brought
on Landon Donovan or Clint or whoever it was. The
assistant coaches. We would all get together. We each have
a ball and we'd say, okay, now you got to
(16:29):
bend the ball around that goal and then on the
second touch you got to put it into the d.
On the third touch you got to put it into
let's say the goal only hitting the net, right, So
you make up all these things that we play soccer golf.
But I don't know if I don't know, if you
remember it was you and I and Tony Miola and
we're playing soccer golf, and you know, I think you
(16:50):
kick off and it's like, you know, you had to
hit a fifty yard ball. And then I'd go next,
and I hit like a fifty yard ball, and then
Tony comes on in shanks one.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
And by the way, Tony hit a great ball, but
shanks it, and see shanks it. Do you remember what happened?
I'll try shanks it. There's a horse in the background
that goes like, oh.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you were dying laughing because like a
jackass right right. It was like the horse is paying attention.
When Tony shank that ball, that horse right away made
that noise. It was the funniest moment I had with
the youth national teams. That's good stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Keeping it loose is gonna be key for any team
that wants like you never hear a story about a
team that goes into a tournament does well. It says, yeah,
we were tight the whole time, Like there's always a
certain level of camaraderie and everybody being on the same page.
It's what we're hoping for from the US men's national
team this summer. Guys who are gonna be playing key role.
(17:50):
I already mentioned a couple of times. Wes McKenny doing
really well for u Ventus right now. They have reportedly
offered him a four year contract and now want to
make him a centerpiece, which is something that it felt
like he was never going to happen for Weston. He
had to come in and prove himself over and over
and over again to one new coach after another. Now
(18:12):
there's inter Milan rumors as well, they may try to
swoop and because he is out of contract this summer. Technically,
what did we think, like what role should Weston play?
And do you want to see him stay with Juventus?
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I mean, for me, I look at it as it's
always easier looking from the outside end. You don't know
what's going on behind closed doors or anything like that.
I honestly won't what's best for him. If it's something
where he feels like at his point of his career,
if he wants to make it change, so be it.
(18:46):
I mean I think I learned this a long time ago,
with a little help from Tab as well. But nowadays
loyalty is out the window. I mean people expect that
loyalty to be from players, but it's not recipile it.
And so, you know, what loyalty is there for Western
or you know, it's what's going to be best for
him and his family and his future. And and the
(19:08):
only person that's really going to know that is Weston.
So there's going to be shame whether he stays. There's
going to be shame whether he leaves. But I honestly
just want what's happy for him and what he thinks
what's best for him and his future, you know, moving forward.
If that's somewhere that he's comfortable and he thinks that
(19:29):
he's going to you know, play better, get more minutes,
I mean that can change at the drop of a hat.
But I think that that's something that you know, he
needs to think through and say, hey, is it time
for a change. Do I want to push myself to
try another team, try another league? You know, where where
does that sit with him? So? Uh, that's that's really
(19:51):
the advice that I could give him is like, don't
worry about what people are telling you what to do
and what you should do. Just think about what's best
for you right now now and what's gonna you know,
keep you mentally right because as tap can at test,
you know, in a blink of an eye, this career
is gone, and so you're always looking back going could
(20:13):
I have done this? Could I have done that? Should
I have done this? At that point it doesn't matter.
So when when you do have it in the in
the palm of your hands, you know, think what how
this is going to affect you in the future and
what's going to make you happy, because that's going to
you know, drive the career longer. Happiness is is what
this everybody in this world needs and so you need
(20:36):
to find what's going to make you happy in that
regards and not about putting you know, these great patches
of of all these great clubs wherever, because at the
end of the day, it's going to be gone.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, I mean Matt, you know, Uh Weston is in
a great situation right now. He's been the best player
for you vent this over the last two months. Uh,
you vent this fell asleep on this one big time.
This is something that they should have done likely about
six to eight weeks ago and now they're in a
tough situation. I think the offer, I'm sure I've seen
(21:09):
the same you've seen. The offer seems like a pretty
good offer for Weston for multiple years. I would like
to see that happen because it seems like Juventus is
really putting their foot forward and making a good effort
to pay them like a true international star player, which
he deserves to be. And I'm not surprised that other
(21:31):
teams are in at this point. You know, Western's in
a great situation and and he'll have plenty of teams
to choose from, but haven't said that. I mean, you know,
the value that he has for Juventus. I mean, let's
you know, you look over the last two months. He's
played three or four different positions for them and has
done well in all of them. And I think he's
invaluable and I and I think they will do if
(21:53):
if Western McKinney ends up leaving Juventus is not going
to be because Juventus hasn't tried their absolute best to ca.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, especially now that he is playing not just the
utility role though, as he said, he does play three
or four different positions, but he's become a centerpiece player. Right,
They're finally putting him in position not just to cover
for other players deficiencies, but in a position to sort
of maximize his skill set with that box arrival, his
ability to pick the last past. It's fun to see.
(22:22):
It's also what we've seen from ac Milan with Christian
Polistic the past couple of years. Now, there are some
reports out of Italian media. I'm gonna call him dubious, right,
They're not as well sourced as the stuff around Weston
at this point, saying that Tottenham Hotspur have identified Christian
as one of their primary transfer targets this summer. You
(22:46):
understand why, given how much they're struggling Spurs, and given
how good Christian has been, given that he has experience
in the Premier League and has played really well at
times for Chelsea. Do we want that to happen or
is that something where you know what you have it
(23:09):
good with a great team in Ace Mulan, you know,
ride that and become a legend there, rather than trying
to salvage something with Spurs.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, I mean, I agree with what you're saying. I mean,
it's one of those things that you know is Spurs
obviously trying to rekindle everything what they had you know
during the Harry Kane times and things of that that sort.
I go back to what I said about Weston. You know,
Christians should be selfish and what makes him happy. It's
(23:43):
not just because you know it be like a squirrel
and every golden shiny thing you go to chase. He's
proven that he can play in that in the Premier League.
He did it with Chelsea. You know, maybe he didn't
get you know, all of the chance says and all
of the playing time that maybe he should or he
is getting at a C. Milan and then that does
(24:06):
that does come into a factor. So I think that
that's one of those things too. From from his standpoint,
you know, is it going to be a money grab
and say hey, I would like to go back to England.
Maybe he misses it. Who knows. That's something that he's
going to decide. But you know it's about, you know,
once again, what's going to make him happy during his
(24:28):
playing time. Is it to stay somewhere where he's playing
and comfortable and doing well. Is it something where he
just stays in Italy and maybe goes to another team
like you know Weston's looking at as well, because that
is a big jump, especially when you know you're used
to a certain playing style, which we all know that
playing in Italy is definitely going to be different than
(24:49):
playing in the Premier League. Do I think Christian can
do it, Absolutely, but it's going to be more of
something that I think that he needs to make that
more selfish decision of of where he's going to be happiest.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, and I'll make it sure. I mean, obviously I
agree with all of that. You know, money obviously is
a factor. You know, I don't think that Milan would
be able to match an offer that potentially, you know, uh,
Tottenham could put put on the table. Christian has been
in the in the Premier League before. That helps. He's
done great in Italy now, which means that even if
(25:23):
he went to England, he could always come back to Italy.
I'm sure. But you know, having said all those things,
you know, I've been sort of against Christian leaving Syria
because he's done so well in it and he's comfortable there.
As Clint said, at the same time, you know, if
you could look at you know, the future there and
potentially Solaki with with Chabi Simmons and Polisic behind, it's
(25:45):
not so bad either, you know, And that's a good
opportunity for him as well, to play. By the way,
it's the best, you know, the EPL is the best
league in the world, so it would be a great
opportunity for him. But I think at this point, you know,
looking at it from the outside, staying in Melon seems
to be the right thing.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah, he's done well there. Milan for my money, better
city than London. But you know, not everybody feels that
way necessarily. But for us, it's time for a break.
We'll be right back and get into Clinton starting eleven
for the US men's national team. In the meantime, please rate,
review and subscribe to Inside American Soccer. But Tom Boger
(26:23):
and Todd Ramos wherever you get your podcasts. All right,
welcome back to Inside American Soccer. We're here with Clint
Mathis and Clint we want to get your thoughts on
(26:44):
the best starting eleven for the US for this World Cup.
So my friend take it away.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
All right, Well, you gotta bear with me. I'm not
gonna be as knowledgeable as everyone, all the viewers out there.
I do have four kids, so it's not the easiest
to keep up with all the soccer.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
One of them, work one of them into the lineup
and we'll give you that pass exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
All right, Well, I got freeze in gold and then
we'll go from left to right. Left back with Anthony Robinson.
I still like Tim Reien in there, just because he
has that veteran side of him. He holds the fort
down really well. And then putting Richards beside him to
add a little speed there. And then I still like
(27:30):
Desk on the right. I think he's a great player.
He's able to get up and down on that right side.
He'd al we's seen. I know he's at PSV now,
but just bringing back his Barcelona days watching him, so
I like him there. I'm gonna throw Tyler Adams in
that holding spot. I like Tyler being able to hold
(27:51):
the fort down and right beside him. The reason I
want Tyler there is having McKenny right beside him. But
give McKenny a role where he's free to go forward more,
you know, more of that up and down midfielder where
Tyler can hold the fort down a little bit more.
And then right in front of them, I think, you know,
just from the little bit that I've seen him play,
(28:13):
I think he's done real well as Tilman, so I
think he would be a good one holding it up there.
You could also put Christian in that same role where
Tilman is, but I think from what we've seen push
Tino do is having him out on the left side
sometimes on the right side, I think he does a
great job coming in, So I'll put Christian on that
(28:35):
left side, kind of like as that winger forward that
has a little bit more freedom, kind of like a
landing sometimes when he would play out out on the
wide being able to come in underneath on the right side.
I will go with Weeya. I like his speed and
I think him and Desk would be able to be
able to interchange a lot. Weya still has the engine
(28:57):
to be able to get back where him and could
intertwine there and then put Baligan up top. I think
that he's been real consistent from the games that I've
gotten to see, so that would be my starting eleven.
So this is the World Cup as of today.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, So so this is interesting because you know, we've
all been talking about potentially the three or five in
the back right because that's what Pochettino has changed to
over the last couple of months, and he's been successful
with that. To be fair, this is also not a
bad way to look at it, because if you think
about it, you know, our first two games being Paraguay
(29:36):
and Australia, it's likely that we're gonna need more attacking players. So, yeah,
you know, Pulisic coming inside and playing sort of a
little bit of a ten role right instead of being
all the way wide and then way I be in
on the on the right side with desk overlapping and
the two of them changing. Is is certainly something that
could that could give other teams fits. I'm more of
(30:00):
the idea that we, you know, having Reim on the
field sort of obligates us to play three center backs
instead of two to protect him a little bit more.
But of course everybody's gonna have different ways to go
about it, and obviously it depends on the opponent as well.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah, Clint, you you played, as tab was saying, all
over the place, right, You played underneath two forwards, You
played as a second forward a lot, you even played
as a center forward in my like, where would you
fit best in this lineup? And do you see anyone
like Christian kind of has some of the same skills
(30:41):
that you had in terms of finding space, picking the
ball up underneath a big target forward. Is that something
that you notice when you watch him?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Oh? For sure, I think that that would be a
great spot for him. I mean I just remember starting off,
and you know, obviously with Tab being on the show,
but I just remember Tab saying, hey, just get open.
He goes, I don't care where you go, just you
have the freedom to run everywhere. Our Tavio's Imbrano was
our coach, and he goes, Clint, I'm just putting you
on the field. Just get open and do what you
(31:11):
gotta do. And you know, I was luckily to have
a player like Tab, you know that was underneath that
had that freedom too. But he was really that playmaker
and at the time to where he said, Clint, get open,
I'll get you the ball and then once you get
the ball, just go do your thing. And so I
see Christian is one of those players that has that
ability to do that. And you know with having the Adams,
(31:35):
you know, off the lineup that I mentioned, having a
Weston behind him, if I was those two guys I
would say, hey, we're going to be the workhorses for
you here, Christian. We want you to have that freedom,
save your energy defensively and things of that sort. If Tyler,
you know, cheats out a little bit left or whatever
to give him more of that freedom, I think they're
(31:55):
fine there. Or if it's a Weston that cheats, I
think both of those guys can you know, definitely intertwine
and hold that position down. And then you look at
a guy like Tilman, I mean he can even squeeze
out on to the left and you know, use his
size and things of that sort to help out. But
I definitely see Christian being one of those players that
is underneath, you know, a big forward that's just picking
(32:18):
up little balls, whether it's flick ons or whether Baligan
wins the header or not. You know, kind of like
I used to do a lot with you know, Brian
McBride up top. You know, I didn't know where the
ball was gonna end up. I tried to get to
flick or if it got knocked down or anything. You know,
you're just trying to pick up whatever trash you can
right there. And then that just leaves the defense vulnerable
because they're not set, they're not organized because they don't
(32:41):
know where the ball is. And a lot of times
you can break out and you know, get a get
a one on one with a goalkeeper there, or at
least a one on one with a last defender or
anything like that. So I definitely see, you know, Christian
in that type of role. I put him out on
the left now just because that's what we've seen as
far as on paper, but I think that he should
(33:02):
have more of that freedom to be just like a
roamer type of a player. I mean, you see it
in Messy. I mean not to compare the two or
anything like that, but you know they try to just say, hey,
you know, Messy, do your thing when you get the ball,
but you know we're going to cover you defensively. Not
that you know he's older now and who he is,
but even as a younger player, I think that you know,
(33:22):
you look back in the day that yes, he would
work hard defensively and things of that trail and try
to help out and show where he should be. But
for the most part, when you have special players like that,
I think it's good to try to take some of
that extra load defensively off because it does make a
big difference when you know they do have that freedom
(33:43):
to go forward. Because the hardest part about it is
it's scoring a goal. It's not, you know, necessarily defending
the goal. It is hard to do that as well,
but to get one in the back of the net
you can endo game one zero if you're organized and whatnot.
But that he should have more of that freedom.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
All right, it's time for one more break for us.
We'll be right back with a story about Clint being
on the cover of Sports Illustrated back in the day.
Thanks for listening to Inside American Soccer. Please rate, review
and subscribe. Welcome back to Inside American Soccer with Tom
(34:31):
Boger and Tabraamos. I am Matt Doyle hosting for Tom.
We're joined by Clinton Mathis, cover boy of Sports Illustrator
almost twenty five years ago now. And you could tell
it was in days long past because when I was
talking about that cover earlier in the show, I remembered you,
Clint having the.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Mohawk while you were on the cover.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
But you could see clearly this was from before you
had the mohawks. So, first of all, tell us about
how this unfolded. You ending up on the cover and
what the reaction of the rest of the guys was,
and then tell us about the mohawk and the process
for deciding to pretty famously. I think he had the
second most famous haircut at that World Cup behind a
(35:17):
certain guy from Brazil, gotcha.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
So yeah, through this we were preparing for the World Cup,
A lot of media stuff is going on as tap
kind of test, and they were doing photo shoots and
things of that, and actually they didn't know who was
going to be on the cover yet. There was a
possibility myself landing and DeMarcus Beasley also did which ended
up coming out for ESPN magazine. We were on the
(35:42):
cover of that, and they were like, oh, are we gonna,
you know, have Clint on the cover of this. He
was just on the cover of that, So they didn't
know what they were going to do, and then I
ended up getting the call that it was gonna happen,
which was cool. It was before obviously the World Cup
and before or the mohawk, because I had no intentions
(36:03):
to do a mohawk er. It wasn't really pre planned
or anything like that. Pretty much like my whole life
and my career was was just flying by the seat
of my pants and you know, surprising people with stuff
they agreed with and stuff they mostly disagreed with, and
this was one of those instances. Yeah, it was fun.
(36:23):
It was cool. Right before we leave to go to
the World Cup. A funny story about Sports Illustrated. I
ended up finding out that they were talking about putting
me on the cover back to back issues, which has
never happened at Sports Illustrated at that time. I don't
know if it has now where an athlete did back
to back covers on Sports Illustrated, but I guess some
(36:46):
things happened. I did not start the first game, and
then that's when Landing came on the cover, so it
was good to have another soccer player in Landing beyond
that next cover whatever. But a funny side note, that
could have been back to back, but cars didn't follow
in my favor, which is okay. I enjoyed that one
(37:08):
because I at least I have Kobe Bryant on the
cover with me and the little snippet and up lose that.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
But anyway, what you know, I just I wish people
could imagine how big that was at the time, right
because now we're a little bit more used to seeing soccer,
you know, being featured in stories and in magazines and
obviously all over social media. But at that time, that
was so huge to have a soccer player on the cover,
(37:37):
you know that I wish people could sort of understand,
like the moment and how big it was.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
No, it was really cool. I mean I grew up
seeing people on the cover of Sports illustrateds, cover of
wheaties boxes, things of that sort. And like you said,
you do see more soccer now because it is more
mainstream than what it was back in our day. Tab
but yeah, that was one of the things. And I
don't remember what the numbers were, but there was only
a handful of soccer players that have ever been on
(38:04):
the cover. I think Ernie was back in ninety four.
I think Maridonna was one time, maybe Pele, So there
was only a handful at that time. So it was
a great honor for me to you know, be captured
and be asked to be on that cover. And it's
one of those things that's still come up, Like you said,
twenty five years ago, it still comes up now to
(38:25):
where all of a sudden, I'll get even here at
my office I'll get a package because I'm glad they
don't know my home address, but I'll get some package
here or whatever, and it says, oh, you please sign
this Sports Illustrated cover and that type of thing. So
it is one of those one of those cool things
that don't really happen too much in people's lives. So
(38:47):
I do cherish that and I'll never forget that. It's
pretty cool, pretty cool moment.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Nothing but support inside the locker room. After that, I imagine, ah.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Yeah, well they're probably getting fun, and I think on
the inside of Sports Illustrated, I'm sitting in the back
of a pickup truck. Because I was always the redneck
on the team, and that's how I ended up getting
my nickname. Cletus was from Paul Kallajeri when I go
straight from my roots of Georgia to Los Angeles to
play for the Galaxy of ninety eight. So yeah, a
(39:19):
lot of little redneck and making fun of my twaying
and stuff like that, but I rolled with it.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
It's authentic. It makes you stand out. So we're going
to close the show, and I want to ask you
before we go, what is your prediction for the US
national team this summer at the World Cup. Like I
said at the start, you guys laid a marker with
that quarterfinal run twenty four years ago, trying to equal
or better it this summer, I think the boys will
(39:46):
be doing what is your prediction, Quinn.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
I think they can make it to the quarterfinals and
get through that. Obviously it's going to be dependent on
obviously injuries things of that sort. But I think the
team gets through the group, see who that draw is,
they win that game, and then I think that that's
where the pressure sets in. I think this group, you know,
probably has a little pressure to do a little bit better.
(40:09):
I think we do have the players the experience, which
you know, most most of the previous World Cup teams
don't have that world experience. And we talk about all
these guys that are playing in the big leagues in
Europe and stuff like that. So I see them getting
to the quarterfinals and maybe squeaking through and having our
first semi finals.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Yeah that, I mean, that's a great prediction. And I
do think and I'm not sure if you were going
in this direction or not, but I do think that
you know, as a an American team, we have always
been a great underdog, and unfortunately in this World Cup
we're not going to be the underdog for a while.
So but if we do get to that quarterfinal game,
I think the pressure will finally be off. And if
(40:51):
at that point we're playing a quarterfinal game with the
pressure off, watch out for the US team.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Absolutely, from your lips to God's ears, let's hope that's
how it plays out. Voice and to all our listeners,
thank you so much for listening to Inside American Soccer.
Please rate, review, and subscribe, and please continue to leave
your questions and comments on all of our platforms, Twitter, Instagram,
TikTok and YouTube, tab and I. We'll be back next week. Clinton,
(41:20):
thank you so much for joining us. Folks. We will
see you next time.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Thanks Glad, Thank you guys,
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