The Pulisic-Balogun Miss & USMNT Trust Rankings for the World Cup

Tom Bogert and Tab Ramos break down the biggest storylines surrounding the USMNT heading into the FIFA World Cup, including the red-hot form of Folarin Balogun and the missed opportunity to build chemistry with Christian Pulisic during the March friendlies.

They also discuss Pellegrino Matarazzo’s stunning Copa del Rey triumph and what it could mean for his future — could he one day lead the USMNT, or even make a jump to Real Madrid?

Tom and Tab then rank their Top 5 most trusted USMNT players heading into the World Cup, with a few notable absences sure to spark debate. Plus, Tab shares his perspective on why the rise of Major League Soccer hasn’t necessarily translated into a true growth in soccer culture across the United States.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
For me, I forgot that we had goalkeepers, so I
didn't That's why I didn't difficult, I didn't put a
goalkeeper in here.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yeah, what's going on? Everybody?

Speaker 3 (00:12):
Welcome back to Inside American Soccer. I am US mensational
team insider Tom Bogan, and I am joined by one
of the greatest players in US soccer history, a veteran
of three World Cups, and a whole lot of coaching accolades.
Beyond that, tab Ramos tab How are we doing? What's
going on today?

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Very good, Tom, Great to uh to be with you
once again. I think we have a lot going on.
The excitement I think is building towards the World Cup. Uh.
And it's nice now tracking our players because now we
think that we have a little bit more of a
nucleus that we can focus on going into June. I
so very excited about that. I think I was mentioning

(00:50):
to you off camera a little bit that my assignments
for the World Cup got switched now from being in
Houston in LA like I had to now Philadelphia, Toronto.
So I'm going to be a little bit more East
coast base, which I think will be great because I
think I'll be able to get to more stadiums.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
That's exciting.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yeah, the distance is surely shorter on this side of
the country when you're going to different stadiums, but the
excitement is for sure building. It doesn't hurt that we
are further removed from the March International window that maybe
didn't quite go exactly how fans might have hoped. So
that hope springs eternal, and that's because we've got a
great show today as well, because we've got a lot

(01:30):
of players playing well. Let's start first with Flora Balligan
his hot streak it continues for Monaco. He's got a
goal in eight straight games. Then we're gonna rank our
top five most trusted US men's national team players at
the summer's World Cup. And lastly, as always, we're gonna
go inside locker room in Toamaramos to talk about the
culture of American soccer, how it's changed since ninety four
to this summer, and what else needs to change beyond

(01:53):
even the soccer world. I'm very excited to talk about that.
But first let's stay on top of the news. We're
we go inside the notebook here and we're starting with
that man Flow. He scored again for Monaco. That's eight
straight in legund and ten straight across all competitions. This
is a player who I think he's shown really positive
flashes with the men's national team, particularly when he first

(02:14):
switched from England. It was very clear like, oh, this
guy's at a different level than the other kind of
forwards in the pool, particularly at that time.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
He's not totally hit this.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
He's definitely not hit the eight or ten games in
a row with the goal, right, he has not hit
this kind.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Of form with the national team.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
What kind of needs to change where he can replicate
this for the national team.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Well, you know, I think first of all, he is
he's been hot for a long time now. We said
it before coming into the March window, and I think
we decided to give him a little bit of a
rest during our March window, which which was unusual, but
maybe it's helped him to stay hot overseas. Right, No,
I think there's not There's not many things that we

(02:56):
need to do different I would have liked. I mean,
think about this for a second, right, as we continue
to to try things with the national team and Marizio
Bochettino is still tinkering with what he wants to do
and what players have to play. But imagine if we
had just played against Portugal and against Belgium for ninety

(03:17):
minutes with both Balogun and Polisic right now, you start
to build something. Now, you start to build that relationship
a little bit better. I mean, I mean, correct me
if I'm wrong, but I believe that that's going to
be our two guys up top des summer. I mean that,
I mean, that has to be the way at that
at this point. And I just wish that in this

(03:37):
last window we would have we would have gone with
we would have given those guys a lot of minutes
to work together because because honestly, you know, uh Balagun
couldn't be any hotter and and and Christian Politic all those.
You know, some people are arguing that, you know, obviously
his goal contributions haven't been there. I still think that

(03:58):
he's playing well and he's making plays, and had we
given the two of them a little bit more time together,
they would be a little bit more prepared to go
into this summer.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yeah, that's been my frustration as we've gotten closer and
closer to the World Cup. I understand when a new
coach comes in. You want to see the pool, you
want to see combinations. There's only so much time they
can get on the training ground together. So I understand experimenting.
Maybe that's not the correct word, but changing things around,
giving guys chances and having it more of an open competition.
I totally understand that. I get a little frustrated the

(04:31):
closer we get to the World Cup, where it's like, okay,
so at what point are we just going to play
some semblance of our best eleven for one hundred and
eighty minutes, shoot even one hundred and fifty minutes. Why
is every game a different lineup? Why is there different combinations?
If you're at the end of March, the last two
friendlies before the pre World Cup friendlies, so now we

(04:51):
only have two more and the idea is that that's
going to be the full squad when we get.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
To those two more.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
At some point, when do we transition to it matters
a whole lot more the top eight players on the roster,
rather than figuring out who's gonna be the bottom et
on the World Cup Bob important though it may be
all of our discussions about who's gonna be the fifth
center back or the third or fourth forward, or the
third goalkeeper or the sixth center mid that's all important.

(05:18):
But what's really going to dictate how far this team
goes is Polistic and Bowigain in the attack, Richard's in
the defense, and whoever's partnering with him, McKinney and Adams
in the midfield. And again, I know a handful of
these players are unavailable in March, but I just don't
know how many different windows we've had where it's like
ac Milan doesn't want Poolistic to play too much and

(05:39):
Crystal Palace doesn't want Richards to play too much, and okay,
let's play nice. We've played nice with these teams.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
For four years.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
At what point do you give the middle finger and say, well,
guess what, he's with us right now, so he's gonna
play one hundred and eighty minutes.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
Well, you know, and it's not even that to add
to what you said. Let's say, for example, during that
March window, that against bell and against Portugal, Baligan and Polisic,
let's say they didn't do well together, they played the
whole time and didn't do well. Would that change who's
playing this summer?

Speaker 2 (06:13):
No?

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Right, exactly, So that's my point. I think it would
have been a great opportunity for the two of them
to get a lot of minutes together so that if
they do don't do well, if there's some misunderstandings or
or or you know, Baligan is making the type of
run that that Christian is not comfortable with, can Baligan
check in a little bit more, maybe Christian likes that better.

(06:36):
Like those are all of the things that we could
have worked on towards the summer. That we're not gonna
find that in the summer. So even had they done poorly,
you just mentioned Richard's being another one, right, So Richard's
going to be in there. Just throw him in there
as much as you can so that he can figure
out who he's going to play with. That That is
exactly the point, And this is the reason why we

(06:58):
should have played with whatever our best eleven, even if
we didn't do well, throw in the best players you
have with what you're thinking for the summer, and then
now you have two months to correct that.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
And one more point, I'm not speaking to a player,
and if they weren't saying anything negatively in any way
by the national team, just the difference between club and international,
particularly in twenty twenty six, where the game becomes so
determined by little sequences and those sequences are.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Drilled, particularly the club club level.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
It's so much predictability of you check here, the wing
back goes there, and you play that one.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
You don't need to look, you know he's there.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
It's becoming more choreographed in positive ways. That that has
created a lot of positive sequences with club teams, and
teams can play so crisp and play out of the
back and play through pressure. We go to the national team,
it's different and you just don't have the same amount
of reps. So why are we wasting opportunities to get
those reps? But that's neither here nor there, because that's
in the past. And hopefully those last two friendlies before

(07:55):
the World Cup, I'm sure that there will be plenty
of rotation to give some guys some minute. But I
hope at least that first game or the second, whichever
one it is, we see what Pochatino and his staff
thinks that opening game starting eleven will be, rather than
just continuing to change the game by game. But we'll
see another forward who had a very positive week. How'd
you write congratulations to him in Coventry City. They are

(08:16):
officially promoted to the Premier League. It is not a
surprise at this point. It is just now mathematically confirmed
they're going to win the league, barring maybe the greatest
collapse of all time. So Haiji Wright will soon pick
up a winners medal in the Championship and be playing
in the Premier League. He's got seventeen goals this year
across all competitions, and just another strong year for Haidirik
no question.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
I mean, if you said nothing else, but he has
seventeen goals, that's really all you needed to say, because
you know when you measure and obviously I'm not an
analytics person, but when you talk about goals, when you
bring someone to your team, you're probably looking at a
forward bringing in contributing. Hey can he contribute fourteen to

(08:56):
eighteen goals this year? Can he do maybe thirteen plus?
Those are kind of the numbers that you look at
when you look at her forward, and when you score seventeen,
that's a good number to be at. That's someone who's
contributed a lot towards their team. So very happy for
Hadji and what he's done for Coventry and obviously looking

(09:16):
forward to watching them play in the EPL this year,
hopefully next year, hopefully he will have all those opportunities.
And by the way, another player that comes into the
national team I think with a lot of confidence going
into this summer, excited about what's going to happen this
summer and what will happen after the summer for him.
So it's just good all around for us.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
Hajji is an interesting one too because he's in the
Pochatino era. He's missed a lot of time and it's
been more injuries, like he had an achilles issue at
the Gold Cup. He missed the last camp with kind
of growing problems. He was not selected in September, but
in his last three appearances, two of which were starts,

(09:58):
he scored twice. That was in both goals and in
the Australia win in October, so he's almost he's gotten
a little bit forgotten for me just because of some
of just missing the games, and a small amount of
it has been coach's decision, but then it's been more
so injury. So as long as he's fit and healthy,
obviously very firmly expect him to be on the squad,
but it's more about hey, what combinations makes sense an attack?

(10:20):
Could he be the third attacker with Poulis and Baligan
or is it gonna be Whay, It's gonna be Tilman,
It's it gonna be Luna, Is it gonna be Raina's
gonna be whoever? And the if they do stick with
the system, that in possession ends up as like a
three four two one. I think Hajji right makes sense,
though Polist likes to play in that left channel like
Hoji does. But those are a lot of interesting choices
that again, I think we'll see more and more data

(10:42):
going over the next six weeks with both his club
and then when we get to the pre World Cup friendlies.
Another American that had maybe the best week, well all
the people we're talking about New Jersey's very own Pelargreno Matterazzo.
Congratulations to him. He made history as the first American
manager to win a trophy with the club in European
Top five leaks as he led Ralso Sia Dad to

(11:03):
win the Colpittel Ray over Atletico Madrid after penalties. He
took over this team in December. They were in a
like the relgates much close with the relegations and zone
it was an underperforming team. They immediately going to run
a for him after Pilgrim amount US so it takes over.
Now they are on the cusp of champions Leage qualification.
They were in that fight over the last couple of
weeks of the season and they win a trophy. What

(11:24):
an unbelievable moment for the American manager in Europe.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Uh yeah, truly incredible. And it's his demeanor that really
I think catches your eye a little bit more, even
because you know he's so he seems so calm and
under control always. If you would have seen yesterday and
I'm not sure if you saw the celebrations of the
fans that Ralsoidad in San Sebastian in Spain, you know,

(11:50):
waiting for the team and then lifting the trophy and
all those things, and he still showed that calmness about
him talking in front of people. And by the way,
it seems like he just got there right and now
he's a son of San Sebastian forever. He brought i
think is Raelsosidad's fourth Cup title to the city, which
is huge. Obviously a club that's over one hundred years old,

(12:13):
and and I think on top of all of that,
besides winning the final, which by the way, they won
it on penalties, but it was well deserved. They had
plenty They had plenty of chances to win the game
during the game. I was actually watching it here. It
was a great game. But it's the way the team plays,
It's the excitement with which the players are playing. You know,

(12:35):
Bosque players are always known for giving maximum effort, and
you can tell that that team carries the culture of
the of the Basque country where they're from. Within Spain, obviously,
and since he got there, as you mentioned before, the
team just went straight up. I mean, this has not
been a slow climb. This has been this. It's been

(12:55):
a climb straight up in the in the Spanish League
by playing well, and I think other than they're a
way away loss at Real Madrid, they may have just
one other loss. Everything else has been wins. So congratulations
to him. Obviously, another Jersey guy that we can root for,
on top of him being American, so we're very happy
on this side of the country.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
A few things. He was very deliberate in what he
wanted to do for his next job, very He's a
very thoughtful, inquisitive guy. You talk about his demeanor, maybe
that has something to do with he got he has
like masters in mathematics from Colombia, so maybe he's just
going to be really calm because that that's what the
mathematics world dictates of you. But that the best players

(13:38):
being like like having those kind of traits of work
rate and determination and all those positive things fits really
well with him. He had some calls from Memos clubs
and respectfully said, hey, I think in the future i'll
I want to coach Anmals, but right now I'm kind
of focused on Europe.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
He was.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
He was in the mix for the Brusian Wich and
glad Back job. He was interested in that, but I
know that he got other calls and he was being
very deliberate about I want to pick a club that
fits me and I fit them, and this one makes
a ton of sense. He was before the USMNT hired
mercill Pochettino. Pochettino was for sure, if not the top target,

(14:13):
a top target of probably the realistic top target, because
you could say, maybe you're gonna clop was the top target,
but that there was never going to be any realism
there public greenham Marozzo. They spoke to him as part
of it, and I think even he he was like,
I kind of I get it, and like, if if
I was running this, I'd probably be attracted to somebody
like Pochettino or like a big manager. We eighteen months

(14:35):
to the warder the World Cup, Like I get it,
Like I'm more of a project guy. So he's somebody
that if Pochettino leaves, like he'll still be with Rios
Socidads at the time. He's probably not going to work
out the next cycle. But I think this is a
guy that would love to see coach the national team
one day.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
Yeah, and I and I think, you know, likely with
what he has done already, that door will be open
at some point. However, maybe I'll be the first one
to say it, but this is not an unattractive potential
target for Real Madrid. I have to say, you know,
with the way things have gone and maybe and I
haven't read this, but I think with the job he's

(15:11):
done at rialso Sidad and in his level of understanding
of the Spanish league in such a short period of
time and the issues that Real Madrid has been having
with getting players going in the right direction. And I
know everybody's gonna say, hey, maybe he hasn't coached those big,
superstar players, but you know what, It's been difficult for
every coach that Real Madrid has had, So I'm gonna

(15:32):
leave it at that. But I think that the national
team at this point is a little bit secondary for Pellegrino.
I think he he will likely if he doesn't stay
at rals see Dowd after this summer, he will likely
be looking at an EPL job or or a team
like Real Madrid because I think they can use him.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
I would agree, and you is very bright for Pogrim
mat Rozzo, and I'm sure he's enjoying his time in
Sansabat and so he's probably not thinking about other jobs.
In some injury news, Paraguay's key midfielder Diego Gomes limped
off with what looked to be a very serious knee
injury for Brighton this weekend. He had his head in
his shirt, he was emotional, and you fear the worst
in those kind of scenarios, but it seems like he's

(16:11):
going to be fine for the World Cup. Brighton's manager said, quote,
it's not as bad as we expected. We have to
go week by week now, but hopefully it's not an
injury that rules him out for months. We have to
be patient see how it develops, but it's definitely not
a big injury. You never want to see injuries take
guys out of the World Cup, even when they're your opponents.
Diego Gomez his Simon in from Miami. I can just
tell you I talk to people who know him very well,

(16:32):
know his story, know his family, that it's like over
the top in what this kid's character is, how good
of a family are, all these things that he comes from.
So I was hurting for him when it looked like
he feared the worst with that knee injury. But it
looks like Paraguay's key starting midfielder, Diego Gomas is going
to be good for the World Cup. We will see
updates there as we really get into watching Paraguay, Turkey

(16:53):
and Australia. When it comes to team news and how
some things their forms are going, We're gonna talk a
lot more of that, I'm sure in the coming month.
On the American side of things, it's it's some positive
injury news. Tyler Adams second appearance back from a hamstring injury,
which he picked up after he came back from the
knee injury.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
He looks good.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
Both appearances came off the bench in a win against
Arsenal and a win against I forget who they played
this weekend, but what matters is to Adams is looking
good and hopefully we'll be building him up towards the
World Cup opener. He should be totally fine. Boring again,
another injury, but Tad I don't want to speak for you,
but I feel pretty confident that he's one of the
first names on your team sheet. So the question becomes

(17:34):
who who is the best to partner with him in
the midfield.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Well, I continue to think that the best partner is
going to be Testament. You know. I think you know,
Testaments continues to do well. I think he's a good
compliment to Tyler because he has I think his feet
are a little bit better than Tyler's feet, and I
think he can he can develop plays from from from
coming from the back, but he can also win a ball. Uh.

(18:01):
He positions himself really well on the field, and you know,
and he's playing all the time now, So I I
continue to think that that's that's the right. Uh, that's
the right partner for Tyler in midfield.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, and and and all these questions are in relation
to one another. But is Western McKinnie starting further up
the field or is he is he in a double pivot? Right? Like,
so all of those things I'm not gone effect, but
in a vacuum, I probably say the same with Testament
as well.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
A couple of here and I would and I would
say for you know, if likely at this point, if
we're gonna discuss a potential partner with Tyler, I think
the other one you have to bring to the picture
is Johnny Cardozo. How does how does Johnny fit with
Tyler rather than Testament? I would still choose choose Testament,
but I do see uh uh West and being a

(18:48):
little bit higher up the field.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:50):
The problem with Johnny is that like his best traits
are what Adams does best, and Adams is a little
bit better than him at a lot Like doesn't take
anything away from Johnny, but like Testman's strengths kind of
fit better over Adams's. Maybe weaknesses might be too strong,
but you know what I mean, I think that those
two pair well rather than I think Johnny Cardoso is

(19:11):
just a similar version of Tyler Adams, maybe a little
bit less ground covering, but he's a dual winning ball,
winning interceptions, really smart, intelligent at a lot of the
things that Tyler Adams does well. The other angle you
could say is maybe that would free Tyler Adams to,
you know, press and hunt a little bit more. These
are all, I think, good options, and it's good to
have some of these players. A couple more pieces of news.
Tim Reim exited Charlotte FC's match this weekend at halftime

(19:35):
a little bit of a groin issue, but he's questionable
to play on Wednesday night. This is not a long
term thing. Miles Robinson was substituted in FC Cincinnati's draw
against Toronto. Pat Noonan head coach, called it a minutes limit,
something to that effect. I think that they're just being
overly cautious with Robinson, even though you don't love to
hear the term minutes limit for somebody in his prime

(19:55):
and such such a player who is elite with his
athleticism at that position. So we'll see how that goes.
But it seems those two are fine. In In some
really scary news, Jonathan Klintsman suffered a broken neck in
a collision in his Serie B match on Saturday, post
it on Instagram, thinking the doctors and the fans he
will miss the rest of the season, puts an end

(20:16):
to any hope for a World Cup spot, whatever that
may be.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
But tab, this is where you think about the human,
not the soccer player.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Uh yeah, no question. And you and you start thinking
about why there are so many rules to protect goalkeepers,
right because when goalkeepers go down on the ground, they're
alway they're always in danger of injury. And that's why
maybe you know, referees and players overreact when anyone touches
a goalkeeper, but we have to realize how vulnerable they

(20:44):
are when they come out to get the ball, whether
that's in the air or or on the ground. And
in this case, not sure how many people have seen
the injury, but it was, you know, Jonathan Klintman comes
out to get a ball with his hands uh in,
the in the forward uh in, and slides in and
hits them. It looks like it hits them maybe with

(21:04):
a knee or a shin and sort of you know,
knocks his neck back and it seems like a neck injury,
which can be really dangerous. So obviously I had Jonathan
Klintzman on the under twenty national team. He's a great athlete.
Likely over the eight years I was with the under twenties,
he and it was at the top of the best

(21:28):
athletic goalkeepers that I had. And so I really feel
for him because he's a great kid, great player, and
hopefully his recovery doesn't take too long.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah, all the best to him. What a scariest, scary moment,
and it makes you remember that again, these are human
beings and that's just terrifying. All the best to him
in his recovery. On another injury front, Daryl Dka returned
and he scored for West brom And Top really quickly,
particularly without Patrick Godjamong an aerial threat, a really physical center.
For Daryl DK, there's a chance that opens up that

(22:01):
maybe he could convince Bochettino that hey, if you want
a different profile and center forward, I'm your man.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah, and maybe that could be a more that that
Al Juman presidents that that we're gonna lose right, Uh,
could be a little bit of that. I mean, we
have to remember, I mean listen, and I've been a
DK supporter because I think he does bring a lot
to the table, but we have to recognize, you know,
this year, he's uh, he's been coming off the bench
most of the time. He has only I think one goal.

(22:29):
Is he an option? Yes? Is it likely? I don't
think so.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
I'm sure we'll be discussing that plenty over the next
few weeks, but it's time for a very quick break up. Next,
we'll rank our top five US men's players that we
trust the most heading into the World Cup. Please rate,
review and subscribed Inside America Soccer, Tom Boger, Tom Brambles,
wherever you get your podcast, Welcome backs in South American Soccer.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
TAB.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
We're looking at the World Cup and we talk about
roster bubble decisions. We talk about starting eleven decisions. We
talk about tactics and structures and pressing triggers and whatever.
Sometimes it's a bit more fun to just talk about
the players and the top end individuals. So this is
something that we're gonna do at top five of players

(23:23):
that we trust the most, not the top five best
players on the team. Who are the top five players
that we trust the most? TAB take us away five
to one?

Speaker 1 (23:33):
Okay, uh, and you want me to go continuous five
to one, or just start with.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
The five choicead what do you want to do, I'll start.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
I'll start with the five and uh and by the way,
with what you just said, I think at the end
of the day, you know, before tactics and everything else
comes into play, I think this is the part that's important.
Who are the players that you can trust who are
on the field, who you know are doing all they
can to win the game every time. And I think
my list here will will reflect that. As number five,

(24:01):
I have Chris Richards and by the way, I put
him at five, that was before watching him play yesterday's game,
And yesterday he played a great game. He played a
great game, so likely I would put him a little
bit higher on the list. But but nonetheless, I mean
the list of five is guys that I would trust
one hundred percent. Yeah, and and no doubt he's a

(24:21):
player that will be on the field and a lot
of it will depend on him.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yeah, I'm gonna let you just go run three or five,
because I feel like any any analysis that I give
is going to give away where mine is, so I'll
let you keep rolling here.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
All right, sounds good? My number four would be Christian Polisic.
I really believe Christian will have a good World Cup.
Sometimes I think the expectations can be a little bit
too much, and and it's normal because if you're if
you're the star of the team, you're the guys that's
supposed to carry carry the team, You're the guy that
has a Netflix show and all of those.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
Things one of many. I'm assuming it took this way.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
I guess so, well, U more more more books and
documentaries and docuseries than wins over the fast year.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
I think, well, I mean as a whole, and so
because of that, I think I think that, you know,
the expectations will always be high for a player that
has such uh uh star quality. Let's say, I do
trust that he's going to do well for the team.
He's going to help this team. I don't think necessarily
that Christian Polistic needs to put this team on his

(25:26):
shoulders for this team to succeed, But I think he
needs to do his job really well, and I do
believe that that he can do that and he will.
At number three, I'm gonna put Weston McKinney because why not.
When you see Western McKinney, he does everything that you
want him to do in more. Uh, there's you know,
when you talk about trust, you want to put a

(25:47):
player on the field that you don't want to worry about,
and no doubt Western McKinney is one of those. Regardless
of where are you still, Patino decides to play him,
which I hope is that a little bit of an
attacking role in Mida. I think he's going to do well.
He's going to deliver for the team and he's going
to make us better when he's on the field. Number
two for me would be uh, flow Baliguan. I have

(26:11):
no reason to not trust him at this point. He
scores every game, so I uh, the only doubt here
was whether I would put him in number one. Wow,
you know, hopefully hopefully he will continue his streak, if
not the same, somewhat the same going into the summer.
But I think I do trust him for I trust

(26:31):
for Balagun to be R nine. You know, when you
see him score the quality of goal that he scored
two weeks ago in the league where he chipped the
goalkeeper from the side, I mean that's a that's a
bird camp, that's a burd camp kind of goal. That's
not a goal that happens every day. That's a that's
a high quality, high level. Not everyone can do it,
not every forward and a great team can do it.

(26:54):
I I like that a lot, and I like the
confidence of just trying that. I think that shows me
a lot. So I trust him and number one, of course,
why not. It's going to be Tyler Adams for me,
because I don't think there's ever been a game in
which you know, Tyler Adams just been in the game.
And sometimes the expectations can be too high for him too,
because I think sometimes people expect him to do a

(27:16):
lot more than he can do. But for what Tyler
Adams can do, which is a lot, he can dominate games.
He does it just about every single time he plays.
No reason for me to doubt that. Someone that shows
time and time again and every press conference how much
he loves the national team and playing for the national
team and how much he loves for the national team
to do well. I trust Tyler Adams one hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
Tyler Adams is a gem. I'll say the suspense. He
is my number one as well. We've both been very
upfront about that in our praise for this player, and
that's why this kind of list is like you could
just name it the Tyler Adams list. You know that
he's going to go out there, he's going to cover
more ground than anybody. He's generally going to make the

(27:59):
right decision. He's gonna win tackles, he's gonna win duels.
He's gonna lead very very well. He's going to be
right there for team. It's just like everything that you
want both in a leader and in a defensive midfielder
and somebody who knows his role too. You don't have
to get worried about him trying to put the team
on his back or doing something way off script, and

(28:19):
maybe that lowers the ceiling a little bit, right, It's
just a different a destroyer defensive midfielder versus a creative
winger or a goal scorting set of forward. There's more
volatility with the attackers because that's just the nature of
the game. I know when Tyler Adams is on the field,
it's a seven and a half out of ten almost
every time, if not eight and a half, and maybe
sometimes he's a seven, right, but he could miss. He

(28:42):
could not play any like killer forward pass and if
he has a game like that and still be one
of the best players on the field, just by what
he does in defensive transition, defensive work, ground covering, putting
out fires before they start. Sometimes this again, this list,
it was, hey, I'm starting at one with Adams and
then think about everybody else.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
It was just a complete no brainer for me on yours.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
I was a little bit surprised, I think, to see
Balligan at number two, just because again the nature of
center forwards and how those performances can't go up down,
And sometimes you may look at it as well, if
he didn't score, what did he do?

Speaker 1 (29:16):
No, yeah, I mean that's a big chance to take
on his center forward. But I think, I mean this,
this player has done it at every level. You know,
he's doing it in Lige and he did it in
the Champions League. So at this point, you know, you'd
have to look and see, Okay, what would it take
for us to actually take Baligan off the field at
this point besides the March window where we took completely

(29:39):
off the field and didn't play at number nine.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Monica might have a minutes restriction at the World Cup.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
We'll see, Yeah, we will see about that. But no,
I mean I think you know, at this point, I
think you'd have a hard time finding a fan who
wouldn't believe that, even if Baligan didn't touch the ball
for eighty nine minutes with us, that in the one
minute he can score a goal. I believe in that,
and I think that's a good place to be when
you're a number nine.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
He creates danger and if he's not scoring, He's got
three goals in his last eight appearances. That The first
of that sequence was against South Korea, where I think
we hit our rock bottom. Everything started to change with
the formation shift and the personnel shift. He was part
of that. He looked really, really good at the end
of that game. He scores against Japan, and then we
started rolling in a positive way through the end of

(30:24):
twenty twenty five and Balgin was. You know, it's no
surprise that he was at the.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Center of that.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
I'm gonna give my five here. I'm gonna start number
five Christian Polisik Again. Maybe it's the expectation, so perhaps
it's not fair to put a heir. He just hasn't
hit his heights that we know he could hit over
the last twelve to fourteen months with the national team.
So I think that's kind of why off slit him
to fifth here? But when push comes to shove, even
if he's not firing, if we have a moment in transition,

(30:51):
if we're tied, if we're chasing a goal, I want
the ball in his foot and more than anybody else
on this team.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
So while he hasn't necessarily.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
Contributed the box score numbers of the goals re thesists,
which better or worse, it is going to come down
to it for him and at the World Cup, his
goal contributions are going to be a huge factor in
how far how successful this team goes. And that's just
the burden, like you said, Tab, So for me, I
have a fifth. I think his ceiling is much higher,
and I probably his baseline might be higher than the

(31:23):
person I have at four. The person I have it
fo is Tim Waya because he's like the wide player
version of Tyler Adams for me in I know what
I'm getting. He had I forget which game it was recently,
but maybe against Belgium he was bad?

Speaker 1 (31:37):
Right?

Speaker 2 (31:38):
That was that kind of made me think.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
Oh, I don't know that I've ever thought that Tim
Waya played bad before today. So hopefully that was just
an anomaly rather than a sign of bad form coming.
But is running his two footedness, I think, and he
could beat his trickery, and like sometimes I take for
granted when we're you know, doing our rosters or linus

(32:00):
or whatever, be like, oh yeah, I know, he could
play winger, he could play wing back. He could you know,
have playing in our back four. He could play full
back in a pinch and maybe if you want to
throw him up top, if you need somebody Like it's
just it's just easy to overlook when we talk about
that from mckadie as well, it's a nice transition number.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
Three before before you go to mcknny, I'll add this
to tm tim Weya because I don't think tim Weya
played poorly against Belgium, and I know where you were
going with that. You know, he got beat a couple times.
I think tim Weya was a victim of bad tactical
preparation for that game. I think there was no time
in which tim Weya needed to challenge the ball without

(32:36):
getting support, and the support just wasn't there. He was
left on an island playing against Doko, who's a player
who no one can stop at this point, not just
tim Weya, but pick any outside back. No one can
stop Doko at this point one d one.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
I would agree with that.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
I was I feel like he didn't offer a ton
on the balls, like decision making. Was was surprising because
he's usually a very intelligent and somebody that you trust
to do the right thing or make the right play,
whether it's executed or not, because I think he's just
a really smart player on top of all of the
technical and physical gifts he has, so tim waya slightly
ahead of pools, like just on this made up list
that we have three West McKinney talked about him a

(33:13):
ton over the last couple of months, not so much
to add particularly bait beyond what you said he's reliable.
What I think is interesting is if we did this
twelve months ago, he's not on my top five. He's
just not because of the form he was in, and
there were so many questions of well, if you put
him in that kind of like third attacker role in
this system, I don't love it. I feel like you're
giving up some creativity or some natural goalscorer right, you know,

(33:36):
he's more of a free eight in a midfield three.
That's where he's best. I don't know what position is
in this system. I don't know, you know, maybe this
isn't perfanct for him. I think he's gonna thrive it anywhere.
And I apologize for not having that opinion, you know,
fourteen months ago and being a victim of the form.
Wester McKinney should kind of always be in this top five.
The intangible side of things, the work rate side of things,

(33:59):
the like, Hey, when things get physical, when things get difficult,
when the lights get bright, he's gonna be the first
dude to step up to be in the mix of anything,
whether it's give me the ball, whether it's I'm gonna
kick the shit out of somebody, whether it's you pushed
my teammate. I'm gonna get in there, and then I'll
get choked by a Mexican national team player three times
and there will be no repercussions. But I'm gonna get

(34:19):
in there a fourth time no matter what. So Wes
McKinney third for me, Chris Richards is who I have too.
I was very shocked to see him at number five
on your list. He's our best center back and over
the last I think eighteen months, particularly as he's excelled
with Crystal Palace and really grown into himself as both
a dominant center back and the leader and somebody who
when he first got to Palace it was is.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
He gonna play every game?

Speaker 3 (34:41):
And it's it's difficult to really grow into yourself. Then,
like he's a first choice starter for them on a
very good English team. He's very clearly the top dog
in defense for this team. He's leading by example a
whole lot more of this team. I've been very impressed
by that. But on the ball, off the ball, he's
just a guy I have zero, zero, zero worries about.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
At any time.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
This is a better team when he's on the field
and a worse team when he's off. So Chris Richards
at number two for me, and then like I said,
Ty Adams number one, not too much here to expand
on given all of the praise that I just keep
on him as well. Surprising. I don't know if this
came up in your thought process. It was hard for
me to live off leave off Anthony Robinson, particularly given
you know he's had a lot of injuries over the

(35:22):
last year. So maybe we're being a victim of form
of that time frame, but before that he might be
number two on this list for a while. And then
there's there's Matt Freeze. That was another one that I
played with. But when there's only five spots, somebody has
to be left off.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yeah, you know, and that's fair. You know. I think
if you went back your fourteen months and I'm just
saying fourteen months because that's where you went with McKinney.
But if I went back fourteen months, I likely would
put Robinson at number one because he had been he
had potentially been our best player for the last five
six years. There was no reason to doubt him.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
So the most reliable at the very least right out,
like he played ninety minutes every game and gave the
same really strong performance every time.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yeah, I just haven't seen that consistency. And I know
he's been injured. That's probably the reason why. But you know,
this list is about trust, it's not about who's the
best player. And at this point, I I you know,
maybe if if there's a number six or seven here,
he goes on that list, but at this point he's
not a top five in terms of trust.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, I would agree Matt Freeze.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
I think it's just a different level compared to these guys,
Like I think these guys are have obviously proved it
for longer and and I do trust Matt Freeze, but
I couldn't find a way to drop, you know, somebody
like Waya or Poolistic from this list for that.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
But and for me, I for me, I forgot that
we had goalkeepers, so I didn't That's why I didn't difficult,
I didn't put a goalkeeper in here.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
Yeah, I don't think that he would have cracked you anyway.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Well, it's time for one more quick break.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
Next up, we are going to get into the growth
of American soccer and American soccer culture since nineteen ninety
four and what needs to happen next. Thanks for listening
to Inside American Soccer again. Please rate with you and
subscribe wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
We'll be back.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Welcome back to Inside American Soccer. Let's go inside the
locker room with sab Ramos tab You were a central
figure at the nineteen ninety four World Cup, one of
the faces of that ninety four team. With all the
euphoria that came around the country with soccer being here
and all of those great scenes that we've seen over
and over again when you look at you know, Old
Giants Stadium or the Rose Bowl or wherever all these

(37:39):
games are being played with all of the fans from
all the countries and a lot of fans from here.
We started to think more and more about the culture
of soccer in this country. So for you, of somebody
who's been involved and central to all of this from
then through now, where, what have you seen in terms
of what the culture was then versus now and how
we got here and maybe you know what needs a

(38:00):
change and where we're going.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, you know, we're going through some really exciting times
obviously with the World Cup coming, not just that, with
the development of MLS and all of the things that
MLS has done over the last thirty years. I mean,
you know, when I look at nineteen ninety four and
I look at where we are now in terms of
the professional game, I honestly couldn't have dreamed of a

(38:25):
better scenario than where we are. You know, there's what
thirty MLS teams, right, Every MLS team has, you know,
pretty much everyone has their own stadium except for one
or two right that played their own football stadium. But
they have beautiful stadiums, the fans go to the games,
Beautiful training facilities in which the players can develop. You know,

(38:46):
Red Bulls are getting ready to open up their new one,
which is amazing. We have all of those things, but
yet the one question that keeps coming up, and I
think you sort of pinpointed it was the culture issue. Right,
When when will the US close the gap in terms
of having soccer culture and the soccer culture actually be

(39:11):
part of the American culture, right? And I think I'm
not sure. With all of the things that we've done
over the last thirty some years and longer, because more
people deserve credit than just the last thirty years, I'm
not sure how much we've closed the gap. And I'm
going to give you an example, and this is one
that I think, you know, our listeners will be able

(39:32):
to identify with. So, for example, I have three kids,
all three of them have gone through the high school, right,
I have my last one in high school now. She
happens to be a dancer. So she's on the team.
She's on the dance team of the school. And you know,
obviously every Saturday, the dance team goes to the football games.
But so the football team is an event. And by

(39:54):
the way, this is New Jersey. This is not Texas
I'm talking about because Texas high school football is like
the pros, right, so difference that they build eighty million
dollar stadiums in Texas for football, so different complete. So
I'm talking about New Jersey, which potentially is one of
the I would say it's not an exaggeration to say
it's one of the best soccer states in the country.

(40:15):
Let's just say it, all right, one of the and
it's been for decades and decades and decades, likely for
about one hundred years. So we're going to on Saturday,
we go to the football game because we're in our town.
So my daughter's on the dance team. Obviously we go
support her, just like the other twenty sets of parents
go and support the other girls on the dance team.

(40:36):
But there's also the cheerleading team, right, and they have
about twenty some cheerleaders and all their parents go to
the game. And also there's the band, and the band
has their thirty or forty people and all of their
parents are out the game to support the man. And
then you have the football team and there's about sixty
players or whatever they have in high school and all

(40:56):
their parents are there and supporting. And but by the way,
you also have an ambulance there just in case, and
you have maybe someone from the fire department either either
a fire truck there or a vehicle from the fire
department there. And by the way, you have a couple
of different you know, police department cars there. And now
you have the director of the school, and you have

(41:18):
the principal of the school, and you have like there's
a lot of support, right, there's a lot of resources
going in. Now. Our football team and obviously I think
most people know where I live, but just to not
say the town. Last year, our football team, I don't
think scored a touchdown. They may have scored one the.

Speaker 4 (41:38):
Whole season, right year last year, yeah, I think last
year twenty twenty, twenty five or twenty four, they didn't
even score a touch But my point is people still
go because it's an event, is part of the culture.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Right. At the same time, the high school won the
short conference, which to people around the country may seem okay,
it means nothing. And of course you know when you
have high regional and local high school competitions, it means
a lot to the local high schools to win their area,
whatever that is. I think the team made it to
the semi finals of the state tournament and won the

(42:13):
Shore Conference, which was a big deal. But people don't
go to the games. It's not a thing like, it's
not an event like it is for football. So where
I'm going with this and I think people can identify this.
This was the same thirty forty fifty years ago. And
I think you know, when you talk about culture, and
maybe you know, we can discuss a little bit more
about this, but I feel like where we need to

(42:35):
make inroads and our culture is to make soccer important
at the younger levels, right because this will start so
now you have a son and pretty soon you're going
to be having the fights that the town about, Hey
does my son have enough feels to play on? Because
a lot of the resources and I'm not saying this
in a bad way, but most people will certainly identify

(42:56):
with this. When you go to your town and you
see how the rec department is run and how everything's run.
The resources go to football and baseball. And by the way,
if soccer you have the feel that the park that works,
that's good enough. We just throw you over there and
I think that's where maybe you know, and this is
why now I'm gonna go I'm gonna finish with this.
I go back to MLS. We couldn't possibly ask any

(43:18):
more of MLS than where it is today. One of
the best players ever to play the game is in
the league. He just drew seventy five thousand people at
a game in Colorado. Right, all those things are there,
but I think we need to start to we need
to begin to have an effect on the culture, and
we're not doing that.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
It is a really salient point and just a nice
way to show that, right, Like it's not. And by
the way, what was implied, as you well know, is
the students and the fans like people who care about
I've got friends of mine who are.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
They couldn't care less about football.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
They have younger kids and or not playing football. You
know one friend in particular, his kid is four, love soccer,
crazy about it.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
His mother is Brazilian.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
They still go to the football though they're high school
in their town. The kid hasn't started kindergarten yet, he
has zero interest in football.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
They just go.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
And this is as soccer crazy a person in a
family that I can think of off the top of my head.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Near me. You talk about it like it happened to work. Well,
I feel bad for the kids, of course of.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
That football team in your town, But even when they're
terrible and they have no choice chance of winning, it's
still the event, and it's still what draws and still
what is the fabric of that town.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
And as you said, this is at a place where
high school and college football it ain't.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
We're in the bottom quarter of the country, I would say,
in terms of caring, right, like, you probably get made
fun of it if you were like, hey, do you
want in Texas? Do you want to go to our
high school soccer game? But sorry, what are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Man?

Speaker 3 (44:57):
I think about my own anecdotally, like playing Nobody came
to those those short games. Nobody came to our state games. Well,
I'm played in college. Man, it would be like my parents,
three other sets of parents, like maybe somebody's girlfriend. That
was it like that, that was the crowd, And again,
nobody would be very, very big. Clear those were not

(45:18):
games that were worth attending in your free time. So
I'm not even complaining about why people didn't come to
my crappy college games. But even when my high school
football team was bad, I didn't go a ton because
I didn't really care. And I'm like a true like
American sports fan as well, but it was like, I
don't really care about that.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Like they stink. Who cares?

Speaker 3 (45:34):
Everybody goes to those games, and I like, it's something
that I don't think that there's a solve there in
American for soccer in America because it's just completely ingrained
and there were so many other options as well as
like there's a lot of places where basketball is the
biggest sport or one of the biggest sports in baseball, right, Like,
there are just so many other options. And these sports

(45:56):
that have had such such such long runways compared to
where you look at Europe or South America. Like let's
talk about England, the Football Association or the official clubs.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
A lot of them are formed in like eighteen eighty.
They've got almost.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
Like the over MLS. Just going from the English First
Vision to MLS, it's one hundred and ten year headstart.
And yes, there were soccer played in America before MLS.
Wherever you want to cut it up, it's like a
seventy five to eighty year head start. And I don't
know how you breage that gap.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
Yeah, it's gonna take out, you know. And it's a
good point that you say. And I mentioned that our
football team, I don't think scored a touchdown that year,
but we were watching in the same you know, And
and I listened to the reaction of other parents, right,
because there are neighbors and people across the street, and
that's that's who they are. And you listen to them,
and you're like, you know, so how many times do
you watch Okay, you know, first now and it's it's

(46:48):
you know, it's run, run, run, punt, run, run, run, punt, right.

Speaker 5 (46:54):
And then every once in a while, every once in
a while, if you're like around the fifty yard line,
it's run, run, and let's run one more because our
kicker can't really kick, so.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
It was another run for the turnover. So I'm like, like,
you know, I'm you know, I'm not making fun of
the team. It's fun. Like I'm just of course, I'm
just saying, like it's the culture. It wasn't about the
game had nothing to do. It had zero to do
with what we were watching, zero to do. It had
all to do with the fact that this is the

(47:26):
this is a cultural event for our town, and everybody
goes there and it's a nice place to be. And
by the way, I enjoyed it. I loved going. I
really enjoyed going to the football games. And even though
we got hammered, we uh, you know, I still I
still we we stay there and we supported our daughter
and support our kids and stuff like that. But yeah,
I think it's, uh, it's important to recognize those things

(47:50):
that that maybe, you know, maybe after this summer, maybe
after the World Cup becomes you know, certainly for at
least a month and a half this summer, soccer will
be crazy and everyone will talking about it, and all
the morning shows will have it on, and all the
shows at night in the news, they will talk about it,
and it will be great. I just hope that our
next step is not so much to focus at the top,

(48:12):
but that we start focusing at the bottom, because I
think culture, we have to start working towards having a
soccer culture within the American culture, and that will likely
take decades. We really have to start.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
Yeah, from the grassroots. There are obviously improvements on just
listen at any point, at any time, you could watch
any game in the world, which is awesome, and that
is something again going back to your childhood, I know
that that was probably borderline not exists. Even my childhood,
it really wasn't much like thankfully I grew up in
the era of like Premier League on NBC Sports Network
when that was the thing. But I you know, the

(48:50):
more and more that kids are exposed to it, and
it is different too with soccer and tying it back
to MLS as well, that I honestly believe the biggest
benefactor in terms of fans support and interest of the
World Cup this summer is going to be the Premier League,
It's going to be an English soccer league, maybe the
Champions League, right, maybe League A Mechi's. But the problem is,

(49:13):
if you're a football fan, you watch the NFL. You
probably don't watch indoor football or the spring football leagues
that pop up and fold every couple of years. MLS
is obviously beyond that. But it's not like, oh cool,
we converted somebody to be a soccer fan and now
it's done. It's like, okay, now, but now that you're
a soccer fan, there's eight thousand options for you to pick.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
How are you gonna keep these.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
People or be the reason like not even keep them, Like, hey,
this is worth your time and this is why you
should care about this. I think it's gonna be more
of the premier league, and we're gonna see a lot
of talk about the national team again in the air
quote mainstream stuff. The players will be interviews on interviewed
on some morning shows. You know, you'll have traditional ESPN

(49:58):
kind of thing or Fox Sports or whatever that the
topics djure of. Well, this is where Lebron's going to
free agency. And oh, by the way, USA plays in
a round to thirty two tomorrow. When USA are eliminated,
that's gonna go down. And when the World Cup finals
forty eight hours after the World Cup final on the
next thing. And I don't know how you solve that.

(50:20):
I wish I had a better answer. There are a
ton of different ways to go. I will leave you
just one question or one. I'm curious. You don't strike
me as a concession stands at a high school football game.
Kind I don't see you, don't. I don't see you
walking back with cheese fries. But you tell me if
I'm wrong, You're exactly right. I'm not that guy I
just sit in the stands the whole time.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
And every once in a while, you know, you know,
my son or my daughter, whatever, I want to go
get something, they'll last me. They'll last me if I
want a water. So that's pretty much that would be me.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Well that tracks. This is a lot of fun. It's
always tapped.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
There are so many different ways that we can go,
and we will continue this conversation. I am dead certain.
So thank you for listening South American Soccer again. Please rate, review,
and subscribe wherever we get to the podcast. We're gonna
be back next week and we're only hitting the jetstream, folks.
We are getting closer and closer to the World Cup.
The time is now. Time is great and can't wait
to see now