September 12, 2026 • 20 mins
After a hilarious conversation with friends about how this next generation is spoiling their kids with a “gentle parenting” approach, a recent article explored this very sentiment many parents and grandparents are feeling these days. We go over the three styles most parents fall into: The “fish bowl” approach, the “ocean approach” and the “aquarium approach” and why the aquarium method is considered the the best way to help children feel both confident and safe while moving them through tough emotions in a productive way. We also discuss what you can do if you’re a frustrated friend or family member who wants to prevent a spoiled child from becoming a troubled adult.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey there, folks. It is Saturday, September 12th. It sounds
so lovely. Gentle parenting. Who wouldn't want to be a
gentle parent? What kid wouldn't want a gentle parent? Well,
if you're one, you are screwing up your kid. And
with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ
as we continue on this relationship Saturday. If you've checked
(00:24):
out Our feed, we started this morning, Robes, talking about
beige flags in relationships. We followed that up with talking
about public relationships, excuse me, public breakups and asking for
divorces via Instagram. Both of those are on our feed
just before this story. Be sure to check that one out. But, Robes,
you're bringing another one to me, and this is something
(00:46):
we've been talking about quite a bit lately.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, so this was so interesting. We actually had dinner
with a friend of yours who was complaining about... watching
his grandchild being raised in a very different way than
he raised his child and how many of us were raised.
And he has, I think he even said like it,
my grandchild's becoming a spoiled, whatever. I don't know if
(01:10):
he put a label on it, but a lot of
people would say spoiled brat. And so we were having
this funny conversation about how we were raised and how
we were trying to raise our kids and how this
new generation of kids is has a very different mindset.
And yes, it's oftentimes called gentle parenting. So we're having
this conversation.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
And I pulled up the New York Times and they
had an entire article on this because yes, a grandfather
wrote in saying, what am I supposed to do?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I am watching. This was his stepdaughter ruin my grandchild's life.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Okay. First, is that the actual uh, official title of it.
It's called gentle parenting, gentle parenting. Okay. Um, a couple
more questions here. Uh, I need to know or ask,
do you have an actual definition? Can you define it
best you can for me?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Uh, so, so here's how they put it. They say
that there is, um, there are three different ways to approach.
Here's the problem. Here's the scenario. This is what they get.
A child's waiting in line at an ice cream truck
at the park. And before it's her turn, The treat
that she wants is sold out. A parent's response to
(02:21):
their child indicates their child rearing style. So either you
have a fishbowl approach, you have an ocean approach, or
an aquarium approach.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Okay, help me here. So my kid is at the
ice cream truck. They run out of the thing Sabine wants.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Imagine she's younger, like maybe say she's five or under,
and she starts to throw a fit.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Okay. Okay, so my reaction to her, and let me
know what category I'd fall in. Oh, babe, that sucks.
I'm sure they'll have it next time. You sure there's
nothing else you want? You don't have to. But yeah,
next time, maybe we'll get here a little earlier. Maybe
they just won't run out. But if you want anything else, cool.
If not, I understand.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Babe, you nailed it. I just got chills because you
just did the aquarium approach. And that is the approach
that parenting experts say is the right way to do it.
And you know what? I did the fishbowl approach, and
that's more of the authoritarian approach. The gentle parenting is
more of the ocean approach and you did the aquarium approach.
(03:19):
Let me explain.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yes, please. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So your approach that you just described is what parenting
experts actually recommend. It's called the aquarium approach. This is
what they say you would say in response. That's a bummer.
And I know you love that flavor. Maybe next time
we can get in line earlier. Let's pick something else.
What else looks good?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
That's like literally what you said. The aquarium approach takes
the leadership. of the fishbowl approach and combines it with
the respect and compassion of the ocean approach. And this
combination makes children feel both confident and safe. You nailed it.
I told you, I have watched you with Sabine and
I am so impressed with how you handle her and
how you've handled her moods, how you've handled her even disrespect.
(04:00):
And she's not a disrespectful kid, but on the rare occasion,
she acts up and she hardly ever does. And she
probably doesn't because of how you have parented her. And
I actually read this and thought, Holy hell, That's how
TJ parents. And you just literally almost said it word
for word.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Here's the gentle parenting approach to that same scenario. Oh no,
this is so hard. Can you tell me what you're feeling?
Are you mad? Are you sad? Let's talk about your
mad and sad feelings. I have seen, I watched a
parent do this. I told you and your friend in
our conversation at a restaurant last week, a kid was
(04:38):
screaming because he wanted something that the mom couldn't give.
She got down and kneeled and right in his face
in front of all of us in this restaurant who
were trying to eat and he is continuing to scream.
She's like, what do you need, sweetie? I see you're
really frustrated. Why are you so frustrated right now? How
can mom help?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Was I not there?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
No, I was with Nikki. And I was about to
blow a gasket. And the kid did not calm down.
The kid kept screaming. And it went on far too long.
And I wanted to go over there and give the
kid a spanking.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
What is that called?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Gentle parenting. It's leaning into their emotions and validating their
feelings at all costs.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Well, I'm going back to the aquarium and the fishbowl
and the something. Does that fall into one of those categories?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
The ocean approach. This is the gentle parenting.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
It's the ocean thing.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
That's the ocean approach. Basically, so they say a lot
of times these are parents who grew up the way
we grew up, and they try to create an open,
flexible household for their children, but they take it too far.
Every interaction is thoroughly discussed, and they lean way too
much into their children's feelings, but it deprives the child
(05:45):
of moving through their feelings in a productive way. It
lets them actually overindulge in the emotions. And you're like,
in an effort to validate your kid's feelings, you turn
them into spoiled brats who are screaming because, by the way,
when they're like, ah, and they're upset, you're leaning into that.
It's okay to feel that way. And you validate their feelings.
(06:06):
I believe that is what your friend was describing watching
his granddaughter, just constantly being validated for their emotions, this
gentle parenting. It's like it's turning the kid into a
spoiled brat.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
What is the other side to that? I am sure
there's got to be some child therapist out there, some
parenting expert who is promoting this. Talk to your kids
about how they feel. Talk to them through it. Let
them sit and let them know their emotions are okay.
I don't know the other side to that.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
The other side to that is the way you and
I were raised, and honestly, probably the way I raised
my kids more so than most, and that's the fishbowl approach.
So same scenario, kids upset, they don't have the ice cream.
treat that she wanted. Stop pouting. If you pout, you're
not going to get any ice cream and we're leaving
the park. That's probably what I would have said.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
That's mean parenting.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I know.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Well, but it was kind of like eat it and
shut up or deal with it or buck up Roebuck
or look. And I think a lot of, I mean,
that's how I was raised. Like kind of a tough
love approach where you're going to learn discipline. You're going
to control your emotions right now or we're leaving. And
I have very German. Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
And yes, maybe.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And that's how I was raised. And I remember I
have left. I didn't have to do it often, but
Ava was a she's a big personality. And I I said,
if you do this again, you know, we are leaving.
She did it again. Now I have to leave. So, boom,
I have left a restaurant. I have left a dentist
office and I have. left a shopping mall. I have
three specific moments where I remember I was very strict.
(07:38):
She did it again and I had to leave. Then
she's screaming and crying. I had to put her in
timeout for 45 minutes. Obviously what I was doing was
not effective, but I thought it was what was effective
because it's what I knew. And what they say is
this is an authoritarian style of parenting. And yes, you
might get results short term. The child obeys, but out
of fear and not because they're learning a lesson. This
(08:01):
leaves the child feeling dismissed. and shamed for having a
normal feeling of disappointment. And these children might also grow
up to struggle to develop skills needed to self-regulate and
make good choices because they've relied on others to manage
their behavior. This like sent a light bulb off on me.
And I've actually talked to the girls. I'm like, have I,
did I not validate your feelings? I always tried to
(08:23):
do it a My go-to was to be an authoritarian,
to be strict, to be the disciplinarian. I tried to
show a little love, but I also didn't want to
make my kids soft, spoiled brats. That was what was
in my head. So it's so interesting. And so a
lot of people, they say, who were raised with this
fishbowl approach didn't want to do that to their kids,
(08:44):
but they go to the other extreme, to this gentle parenting,
to this ocean approach where you just, all you do
is validate their feelings and allow them to explore their
feelings and.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I'm trying to find the good in that. Because what
you're saying sounds pleasant. A kid is upset. Let's explore
your feelings. You want to talk to me about how
you're feeling.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I guess that's... You're not giving them tools to move
through their feelings in a productive way. I thought that
was so well put. That is exactly what the issue is.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
You have to sit with it. Where were we? I'm
thinking about a thing I did with Sabine that jumped out.
Three of us were at dinner. This was in Turk's.
At the old Gansevoort place. What's the name of it now? Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
We were at dinner and she had a little attitude
of what was going on. And I said, baby, you're
welcome to feel how you feel, but you're not going
to be allowed to sit here and be rude at dinner.
I said, if you want, I offered. I will put
you in an Uber and take you back to our house.
And then Robach and I are going to continue our
dinner here. It's your call. I gave her that agency. Yes,
(09:52):
you can feel what you want to feel, but it
doesn't give you permission to actually sit here and being
an asshole to everybody else. And I remember you looked
at me like, what the hell is going on here?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
But you didn't say it in a mean way.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Oh, no.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You didn't say it in a threatening way. You weren't angry.
You actually were very matter-of-fact and supportive. I was blown away.
And you know what she did? She said, no, I'll stay.
And within two to three minutes, she turned it around.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
And I don't know where that comes from.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I was so impressed.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I don't know. I didn't study aquarium whatever. So I
don't know where that comes from. And I don't remember
having that as a kid. I don't remember growing up
and my parents certainly didn't ask me about my feelings.
I'm 49. They still haven't asked me about my feelings.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Did you have more of a German style of parenting?
I'm laughing. It's not German style. I guess it's called
the fishbowl approach.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Just respect for authority. That is my parent. When they
say do something, I know to do it. And it
wasn't beyond that. So yeah, I never found them to
be the fishbowl thing either.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So it's funny. This is the metaphor they say. So
children get stunted in a fishbowl, meaning like they don't
trust their own feelings. They don't trust even their own
decision-making at times because they've been told what to do
for so long. They say children get lost in an ocean.
If it's just lean into your emotions, like, okay, now
(11:17):
what you're just, you, you, it's too much about emotions.
And they say, but they flourish in an aquarium. And
that's the metaphor. Children get lost in an ocean. They
get stunted in a fishbowl and they flourish in an aquarium.
And so that's a way to remember it. I've never
heard it put like that. And I just thought that
was such unbelievably good advice that I wish I had
(11:40):
had when I was raising my kids. I do ask
them all the time. I'm like, I do try to
listen to their feelings. And I do appreciate the fact
that they will stand up to me and they will
say things to me. In a way that I would
never have done or said to my parents ever. Maybe
too much. You're laughing. You're smiling. But it's one of
(12:02):
those things where it's a needle to thread for folks
who didn't have that imprinting. And then to know how
to try and do your best with kids. Okay, so
say you've already raised your kids like me and now
you're dealing with potential grandkids or you are, you do
have grandkids in your life. What do you do when
you see your child doing this ocean type of parenting,
(12:26):
this gentle parenting? We've got tips for you too after
the break. Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. This
is our Relationship Saturday, and this is about your relationship
to your kids, to your grandkids, and it isn't always easy.
(12:49):
They say if you are the grandparent, you're watching your
child gentle parent your grandchild and turning your grandchild into
a screaming, raving, little, emotional, I hate to use the
word brat, but I guess is there another way to
put it? Monster.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Monster.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Monster.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So it was really cool to see the advice this
expert gave this grandfather. She said, the first thing you do,
do not point out your differences. Don't say, well, I
would do it like this. You will never get a
receptive audience from your child. And in this case, the
person who wrote it, it was his stepdaughter. So it
was even more of a, you didn't necessarily have that
(13:28):
That connection where she would just automatically trust that you
had her best interest at heart. But they said what
you can do is model the kind of parenting that
you'd like your child to do. So your granddaughter actually
might react to your parenting if you do it in
the right way. Because right now, she might think you're
(13:49):
mean or... criticizing her. Like she might not be receptive.
So they say, if you are friendly and non-combative, and
that will make her more inclined to trust you and
to be more receptive to your approach. You can't control
how your child raises your grandchild, obviously, but you can
control how you show up in the family dynamic. So
(14:10):
they say, if your granddaughter is pouting or throwing a fit,
don't react to that, but instead redirect her and say,
let's play a game and just Get her out of
that emotion. Just basically take her over to her. Still
be warm, but don't react if she continues to reject
you or continues to pout.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Just be warm.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I believe, how old did he say the grandchild was?
She's five years old. Oh, excuse me.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
She's been a single mother for five years. The child
is 10. Okay, so that's an older child. So they said,
you can't go in and go hard and start disciplining
the child. That will never, ever work as a grandparent.
What you have to do is create a relationship where
you're trusted, where you're warm and you're kind, but you
aren't reacting to the bad behavior. You're not inviting more
(15:02):
bad behavior. You're not saying, oh, sweetie, what can I do?
You just distract and you redirect. And then you just
establish this type of warmth and trust. I'm not going
to put up with this type of behavior, but in
a kind way. And how you do that is just say,
let's go outside. Would you like to take a walk?
(15:22):
And then when your daughter sees you really trying to
create a bond with her child, she might be more
receptive to seeing how you're doing. And honestly, me watching
you and how you have handled Sabine, I see the trust.
I see the warmth. And that makes everyone feel more
receptive to a different type of parenting.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Is there a regional element to this? Is there some
area of the country that might be more prone to
gentle parenting?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
I didn't see that, and that's a good question.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I'm just curious.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
They do say that this does tend to be this
Gen Z generation. Um, that is reacting to what most
of us who are Gen Xers, I don't know where
the millennials fall into this, but a lot of us
were raised with more of an authoritarian parenting style. That
was the thing to do in the seventies, maybe even
in the eighties where yes, tough love discipline. That's how
(16:22):
they were raised. They want you to be the best.
They push you to get the good grades and to
be achievers. That was how we were raised. And you
and I were raised fairly similarly. We had corporal punishment.
We had that conversation around the table as well. I
believe all of us who are in our 40s and 50s,
all sitting at that table, all had been spanked. Every
single one of us.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Some of us were whooped. It's a black-white thing, ain't it?
Y'all got spankings, we got whoopings.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, I guess it's just a different way to say it,
different way to describe it. But it's now, now those
of us who were raised that way are dealing with
children who are raising their kids exceptionally different. And the
point being, there is a different way to do it.
There's a middle ground.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
It sounds like we're all getting it wrong for the
most part.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, except for you.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Well, generally. I don't know. You do the best you
can and hope your kid comes out okay. That's kind
of it. What works for me and my child might
not work with somebody else and their child. But I
have actually never seen and I don't know some... Seen
out somewhere. I don't know anybody personally that I've seen
raise their child like that. Gentle parenting to be that
kind of.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I have.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, I haven't seen it.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I have seen... In your life. Oh, I won't name anyone,
but I have seen plenty of my friends... letting their
children basically control and dominate all aspects of their life,
all their conversations. Adults have to stop talking because the
child comes back every three minutes demanding a new snack.
And I'm about to lose my mind because I was
the opposite of that. But I understand I have to
(17:52):
respect that everyone chooses to raise their kids differently, but
I can then choose not to be around those children.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Don't bring them kids to my house. Raise them that
way in your home because they are causing a hell
in my place.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
And I think everyone listening has a friend, a daughter,
a sister, somebody who's raising their kids that way, and
they are exceptionally difficult to be around. And I always
say little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems. And
so I just, I love this aquarium approach. That's a bummer.
(18:22):
I know you love that flavor. Maybe next time we
can get in line earlier. Let's pick something else. What
else looks good?
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Oh my God, I'm laughing. I gave that word for word. Almost.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
And you did not see this ahead of time. But
the bottom line is kids need empathy, but they also
need limits. And you have to be able to give
them both. And you empower them by letting them choose
to calm down and guiding them. But you don't demand it.
You don't threaten them with punishment. And that is what
(18:53):
I believe I did. If you don't do this, we're leaving.
If you don't do this, you're going to time out.
And I did what I thought was effective at the time,
but there was a better way. There was a better way.
There is a better way.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
You did the best you could. But I guess my
idea is to always give the kid the option. Like,
you're upset. That's fine. But you're not going to be
upset and ruin everybody else's day. You can go back
to your room and be upset. I always give that
space and that option for, I don't just say, straighten up.
You've got to stand here and stop looking at it.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
See, and that's awesome. So you validated feelings, but then
you also created limits.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
That is the key. And so, yes, we can model
that behavior with even our grandkids when we choose to
do so. Even if we didn't get it right with
our kids, there's always the next time.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
That's why grandparents are so good. Right. Because they didn't
screwed it up once. We all mess it up again.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
All right. Hope this helps some of y'all out there.
And with that everyone I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ Holmes
we'll talk soon
Hey there, folks. It is Saturday, September 12th. It sounds
so lovely. Gentle parenting. Who wouldn't want to be a
gentle parent? What kid wouldn't want a gentle parent? Well,
if you're one, you are screwing up your kid. And
with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ
as we continue on this relationship Saturday. If you've checked
(00:24):
out Our feed, we started this morning, Robes, talking about
beige flags in relationships. We followed that up with talking
about public relationships, excuse me, public breakups and asking for
divorces via Instagram. Both of those are on our feed
just before this story. Be sure to check that one out. But, Robes,
you're bringing another one to me, and this is something
(00:46):
we've been talking about quite a bit lately.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, so this was so interesting. We actually had dinner
with a friend of yours who was complaining about... watching
his grandchild being raised in a very different way than
he raised his child and how many of us were raised.
And he has, I think he even said like it,
my grandchild's becoming a spoiled, whatever. I don't know if
(01:10):
he put a label on it, but a lot of
people would say spoiled brat. And so we were having
this funny conversation about how we were raised and how
we were trying to raise our kids and how this
new generation of kids is has a very different mindset.
And yes, it's oftentimes called gentle parenting. So we're having
this conversation.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
And I pulled up the New York Times and they
had an entire article on this because yes, a grandfather
wrote in saying, what am I supposed to do?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I am watching. This was his stepdaughter ruin my grandchild's life.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Okay. First, is that the actual uh, official title of it.
It's called gentle parenting, gentle parenting. Okay. Um, a couple
more questions here. Uh, I need to know or ask,
do you have an actual definition? Can you define it
best you can for me?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Uh, so, so here's how they put it. They say
that there is, um, there are three different ways to approach.
Here's the problem. Here's the scenario. This is what they get.
A child's waiting in line at an ice cream truck
at the park. And before it's her turn, The treat
that she wants is sold out. A parent's response to
(02:21):
their child indicates their child rearing style. So either you
have a fishbowl approach, you have an ocean approach, or
an aquarium approach.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Okay, help me here. So my kid is at the
ice cream truck. They run out of the thing Sabine wants.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Imagine she's younger, like maybe say she's five or under,
and she starts to throw a fit.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Okay. Okay, so my reaction to her, and let me
know what category I'd fall in. Oh, babe, that sucks.
I'm sure they'll have it next time. You sure there's
nothing else you want? You don't have to. But yeah,
next time, maybe we'll get here a little earlier. Maybe
they just won't run out. But if you want anything else, cool.
If not, I understand.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Babe, you nailed it. I just got chills because you
just did the aquarium approach. And that is the approach
that parenting experts say is the right way to do it.
And you know what? I did the fishbowl approach, and
that's more of the authoritarian approach. The gentle parenting is
more of the ocean approach and you did the aquarium approach.
(03:19):
Let me explain.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yes, please. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So your approach that you just described is what parenting
experts actually recommend. It's called the aquarium approach. This is
what they say you would say in response. That's a bummer.
And I know you love that flavor. Maybe next time
we can get in line earlier. Let's pick something else.
What else looks good?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
That's like literally what you said. The aquarium approach takes
the leadership. of the fishbowl approach and combines it with
the respect and compassion of the ocean approach. And this
combination makes children feel both confident and safe. You nailed it.
I told you, I have watched you with Sabine and
I am so impressed with how you handle her and
how you've handled her moods, how you've handled her even disrespect.
(04:00):
And she's not a disrespectful kid, but on the rare occasion,
she acts up and she hardly ever does. And she
probably doesn't because of how you have parented her. And
I actually read this and thought, Holy hell, That's how
TJ parents. And you just literally almost said it word
for word.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Here's the gentle parenting approach to that same scenario. Oh no,
this is so hard. Can you tell me what you're feeling?
Are you mad? Are you sad? Let's talk about your
mad and sad feelings. I have seen, I watched a
parent do this. I told you and your friend in
our conversation at a restaurant last week, a kid was
(04:38):
screaming because he wanted something that the mom couldn't give.
She got down and kneeled and right in his face
in front of all of us in this restaurant who
were trying to eat and he is continuing to scream.
She's like, what do you need, sweetie? I see you're
really frustrated. Why are you so frustrated right now? How
can mom help?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Was I not there?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
No, I was with Nikki. And I was about to
blow a gasket. And the kid did not calm down.
The kid kept screaming. And it went on far too long.
And I wanted to go over there and give the
kid a spanking.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
What is that called?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Gentle parenting. It's leaning into their emotions and validating their
feelings at all costs.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Well, I'm going back to the aquarium and the fishbowl
and the something. Does that fall into one of those categories?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
The ocean approach. This is the gentle parenting.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
It's the ocean thing.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
That's the ocean approach. Basically, so they say a lot
of times these are parents who grew up the way
we grew up, and they try to create an open,
flexible household for their children, but they take it too far.
Every interaction is thoroughly discussed, and they lean way too
much into their children's feelings, but it deprives the child
(05:45):
of moving through their feelings in a productive way. It
lets them actually overindulge in the emotions. And you're like,
in an effort to validate your kid's feelings, you turn
them into spoiled brats who are screaming because, by the way,
when they're like, ah, and they're upset, you're leaning into that.
It's okay to feel that way. And you validate their feelings.
(06:06):
I believe that is what your friend was describing watching
his granddaughter, just constantly being validated for their emotions, this
gentle parenting. It's like it's turning the kid into a
spoiled brat.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
What is the other side to that? I am sure
there's got to be some child therapist out there, some
parenting expert who is promoting this. Talk to your kids
about how they feel. Talk to them through it. Let
them sit and let them know their emotions are okay.
I don't know the other side to that.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
The other side to that is the way you and
I were raised, and honestly, probably the way I raised
my kids more so than most, and that's the fishbowl approach.
So same scenario, kids upset, they don't have the ice cream.
treat that she wanted. Stop pouting. If you pout, you're
not going to get any ice cream and we're leaving
the park. That's probably what I would have said.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
That's mean parenting.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I know.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Well, but it was kind of like eat it and
shut up or deal with it or buck up Roebuck
or look. And I think a lot of, I mean,
that's how I was raised. Like kind of a tough
love approach where you're going to learn discipline. You're going
to control your emotions right now or we're leaving. And
I have very German. Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
And yes, maybe.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And that's how I was raised. And I remember I
have left. I didn't have to do it often, but
Ava was a she's a big personality. And I I said,
if you do this again, you know, we are leaving.
She did it again. Now I have to leave. So, boom,
I have left a restaurant. I have left a dentist
office and I have. left a shopping mall. I have
three specific moments where I remember I was very strict.
(07:38):
She did it again and I had to leave. Then
she's screaming and crying. I had to put her in
timeout for 45 minutes. Obviously what I was doing was
not effective, but I thought it was what was effective
because it's what I knew. And what they say is
this is an authoritarian style of parenting. And yes, you
might get results short term. The child obeys, but out
of fear and not because they're learning a lesson. This
(08:01):
leaves the child feeling dismissed. and shamed for having a
normal feeling of disappointment. And these children might also grow
up to struggle to develop skills needed to self-regulate and
make good choices because they've relied on others to manage
their behavior. This like sent a light bulb off on me.
And I've actually talked to the girls. I'm like, have I,
did I not validate your feelings? I always tried to
(08:23):
do it a My go-to was to be an authoritarian,
to be strict, to be the disciplinarian. I tried to
show a little love, but I also didn't want to
make my kids soft, spoiled brats. That was what was
in my head. So it's so interesting. And so a
lot of people, they say, who were raised with this
fishbowl approach didn't want to do that to their kids,
(08:44):
but they go to the other extreme, to this gentle parenting,
to this ocean approach where you just, all you do
is validate their feelings and allow them to explore their
feelings and.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I'm trying to find the good in that. Because what
you're saying sounds pleasant. A kid is upset. Let's explore
your feelings. You want to talk to me about how
you're feeling.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I guess that's... You're not giving them tools to move
through their feelings in a productive way. I thought that
was so well put. That is exactly what the issue is.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
You have to sit with it. Where were we? I'm
thinking about a thing I did with Sabine that jumped out.
Three of us were at dinner. This was in Turk's.
At the old Gansevoort place. What's the name of it now? Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
We were at dinner and she had a little attitude
of what was going on. And I said, baby, you're
welcome to feel how you feel, but you're not going
to be allowed to sit here and be rude at dinner.
I said, if you want, I offered. I will put
you in an Uber and take you back to our house.
And then Robach and I are going to continue our
dinner here. It's your call. I gave her that agency. Yes,
(09:52):
you can feel what you want to feel, but it
doesn't give you permission to actually sit here and being
an asshole to everybody else. And I remember you looked
at me like, what the hell is going on here?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
But you didn't say it in a mean way.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Oh, no.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You didn't say it in a threatening way. You weren't angry.
You actually were very matter-of-fact and supportive. I was blown away.
And you know what she did? She said, no, I'll stay.
And within two to three minutes, she turned it around.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
And I don't know where that comes from.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I was so impressed.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I don't know. I didn't study aquarium whatever. So I
don't know where that comes from. And I don't remember
having that as a kid. I don't remember growing up
and my parents certainly didn't ask me about my feelings.
I'm 49. They still haven't asked me about my feelings.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Did you have more of a German style of parenting?
I'm laughing. It's not German style. I guess it's called
the fishbowl approach.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Just respect for authority. That is my parent. When they
say do something, I know to do it. And it
wasn't beyond that. So yeah, I never found them to
be the fishbowl thing either.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So it's funny. This is the metaphor they say. So
children get stunted in a fishbowl, meaning like they don't
trust their own feelings. They don't trust even their own
decision-making at times because they've been told what to do
for so long. They say children get lost in an ocean.
If it's just lean into your emotions, like, okay, now
(11:17):
what you're just, you, you, it's too much about emotions.
And they say, but they flourish in an aquarium. And
that's the metaphor. Children get lost in an ocean. They
get stunted in a fishbowl and they flourish in an aquarium.
And so that's a way to remember it. I've never
heard it put like that. And I just thought that
was such unbelievably good advice that I wish I had
(11:40):
had when I was raising my kids. I do ask
them all the time. I'm like, I do try to
listen to their feelings. And I do appreciate the fact
that they will stand up to me and they will
say things to me. In a way that I would
never have done or said to my parents ever. Maybe
too much. You're laughing. You're smiling. But it's one of
(12:02):
those things where it's a needle to thread for folks
who didn't have that imprinting. And then to know how
to try and do your best with kids. Okay, so
say you've already raised your kids like me and now
you're dealing with potential grandkids or you are, you do
have grandkids in your life. What do you do when
you see your child doing this ocean type of parenting,
(12:26):
this gentle parenting? We've got tips for you too after
the break. Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. This
is our Relationship Saturday, and this is about your relationship
to your kids, to your grandkids, and it isn't always easy.
(12:49):
They say if you are the grandparent, you're watching your
child gentle parent your grandchild and turning your grandchild into
a screaming, raving, little, emotional, I hate to use the
word brat, but I guess is there another way to
put it? Monster.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Monster.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Monster.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So it was really cool to see the advice this
expert gave this grandfather. She said, the first thing you do,
do not point out your differences. Don't say, well, I
would do it like this. You will never get a
receptive audience from your child. And in this case, the
person who wrote it, it was his stepdaughter. So it
was even more of a, you didn't necessarily have that
(13:28):
That connection where she would just automatically trust that you
had her best interest at heart. But they said what
you can do is model the kind of parenting that
you'd like your child to do. So your granddaughter actually
might react to your parenting if you do it in
the right way. Because right now, she might think you're
(13:49):
mean or... criticizing her. Like she might not be receptive.
So they say, if you are friendly and non-combative, and
that will make her more inclined to trust you and
to be more receptive to your approach. You can't control
how your child raises your grandchild, obviously, but you can
control how you show up in the family dynamic. So
(14:10):
they say, if your granddaughter is pouting or throwing a fit,
don't react to that, but instead redirect her and say,
let's play a game and just Get her out of
that emotion. Just basically take her over to her. Still
be warm, but don't react if she continues to reject
you or continues to pout.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Just be warm.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I believe, how old did he say the grandchild was?
She's five years old. Oh, excuse me.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
She's been a single mother for five years. The child
is 10. Okay, so that's an older child. So they said,
you can't go in and go hard and start disciplining
the child. That will never, ever work as a grandparent.
What you have to do is create a relationship where
you're trusted, where you're warm and you're kind, but you
aren't reacting to the bad behavior. You're not inviting more
(15:02):
bad behavior. You're not saying, oh, sweetie, what can I do?
You just distract and you redirect. And then you just
establish this type of warmth and trust. I'm not going
to put up with this type of behavior, but in
a kind way. And how you do that is just say,
let's go outside. Would you like to take a walk?
(15:22):
And then when your daughter sees you really trying to
create a bond with her child, she might be more
receptive to seeing how you're doing. And honestly, me watching
you and how you have handled Sabine, I see the trust.
I see the warmth. And that makes everyone feel more
receptive to a different type of parenting.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Is there a regional element to this? Is there some
area of the country that might be more prone to
gentle parenting?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
I didn't see that, and that's a good question.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I'm just curious.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
They do say that this does tend to be this
Gen Z generation. Um, that is reacting to what most
of us who are Gen Xers, I don't know where
the millennials fall into this, but a lot of us
were raised with more of an authoritarian parenting style. That
was the thing to do in the seventies, maybe even
in the eighties where yes, tough love discipline. That's how
(16:22):
they were raised. They want you to be the best.
They push you to get the good grades and to
be achievers. That was how we were raised. And you
and I were raised fairly similarly. We had corporal punishment.
We had that conversation around the table as well. I
believe all of us who are in our 40s and 50s,
all sitting at that table, all had been spanked. Every
single one of us.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Some of us were whooped. It's a black-white thing, ain't it?
Y'all got spankings, we got whoopings.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, I guess it's just a different way to say it,
different way to describe it. But it's now, now those
of us who were raised that way are dealing with
children who are raising their kids exceptionally different. And the
point being, there is a different way to do it.
There's a middle ground.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
It sounds like we're all getting it wrong for the
most part.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, except for you.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Well, generally. I don't know. You do the best you
can and hope your kid comes out okay. That's kind
of it. What works for me and my child might
not work with somebody else and their child. But I
have actually never seen and I don't know some... Seen
out somewhere. I don't know anybody personally that I've seen
raise their child like that. Gentle parenting to be that
kind of.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I have.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, I haven't seen it.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I have seen... In your life. Oh, I won't name anyone,
but I have seen plenty of my friends... letting their
children basically control and dominate all aspects of their life,
all their conversations. Adults have to stop talking because the
child comes back every three minutes demanding a new snack.
And I'm about to lose my mind because I was
the opposite of that. But I understand I have to
(17:52):
respect that everyone chooses to raise their kids differently, but
I can then choose not to be around those children.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Don't bring them kids to my house. Raise them that
way in your home because they are causing a hell
in my place.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
And I think everyone listening has a friend, a daughter,
a sister, somebody who's raising their kids that way, and
they are exceptionally difficult to be around. And I always
say little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems. And
so I just, I love this aquarium approach. That's a bummer.
(18:22):
I know you love that flavor. Maybe next time we
can get in line earlier. Let's pick something else. What
else looks good?
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Oh my God, I'm laughing. I gave that word for word. Almost.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
And you did not see this ahead of time. But
the bottom line is kids need empathy, but they also
need limits. And you have to be able to give
them both. And you empower them by letting them choose
to calm down and guiding them. But you don't demand it.
You don't threaten them with punishment. And that is what
(18:53):
I believe I did. If you don't do this, we're leaving.
If you don't do this, you're going to time out.
And I did what I thought was effective at the time,
but there was a better way. There was a better way.
There is a better way.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
You did the best you could. But I guess my
idea is to always give the kid the option. Like,
you're upset. That's fine. But you're not going to be
upset and ruin everybody else's day. You can go back
to your room and be upset. I always give that
space and that option for, I don't just say, straighten up.
You've got to stand here and stop looking at it.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
See, and that's awesome. So you validated feelings, but then
you also created limits.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
That is the key. And so, yes, we can model
that behavior with even our grandkids when we choose to
do so. Even if we didn't get it right with
our kids, there's always the next time.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
That's why grandparents are so good. Right. Because they didn't
screwed it up once. We all mess it up again.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
All right. Hope this helps some of y'all out there.
And with that everyone I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ Holmes
we'll talk soon
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