June 22, 2026 • 49 mins
“There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me. And I think it's given me a belief - maybe it's a delusional belief - that we all have one of those treasures inside of us. We just have to find it.”--SHAWN JOHNSON EAST
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Okay. So I consider myself a seeker, someone who's trying
to improve, get better, learn something, you know, that kind
of thing. So I'm a real I'm always hungry for
a podcast, ted talk, a commencement address, doesn't matter. I
like them all. So I started this company called Joy
(00:32):
one oh one, which is a beautiful wellness based company
that's got all kinds of stuff there. It's got an app,
and it's got retreats and all this stuff. But what
I learned when I started this new thing, and maybe
you started something new and you get this, it's like
you've always done one thing your whole life, and suddenly
now you're switching into another job. So I'm now a CEO.
(00:54):
I've never been a CEO, but I figured, oh, yeah,
it's easy. You just live how you owe live and
do the thing Jo always did. That's not how it works.
When you have a new job that requires new skills,
you have to learn that job too. So I did
something that's super cool and I'm so excited about it.
So I hired a leadership coach and I didn't even
(01:18):
know what that was. So I had my very first
session and I was thinking, what's this guy gonna show
me or tell me or whatever. So this is just
session one. So for session one, he said to me,
tell me about your life in ten minutes. So I thought, okay,
so that's from the beginning to where we are right now. Now,
think about if someone asked you tell your life in
(01:38):
ten minutes, what would you highlight? What would be the
big moments. That's an easy way to distill down what
matters to you, what's important. What are your highlights of life?
So I did the ten minutes, and then he was
he was giving me some pointers and things, and then
he said something interesting. He said, after this hour long
kind of just getting to know you, he said, I'm
(02:00):
going to give you two homework assignments. So I'm going
to give you the same too that he gave me,
because I think they're interesting. So the first one was
he said, whenever you talk, and I didn't know this
is how I spoke because I don't hear myself. I'm
just talking. He said, don't you don't say I was mad.
You say I was kind of mad, or I was
a little teed off, or I was kind of kind
(02:23):
of bug me. He said, every time you qualify with
kinda a little sort of what you are is upset
or whatever you're feeling, he said, throughout the next week,
every time you say one of those qualifying words, just
pause for a second. Don't correct it, just pause and
(02:44):
say to yourself, oh, there it is there. It is like,
let's say you're someone who apologizes all the time. Just
you know that. So as you go through the next week,
think about it. Every time you say, huh, oh, I
just said I'm sorry for bumping into a table or
you know how we do We're like, So this made
me conscious of ah, I don't need to clarify, be definitive,
(03:05):
like that's important. The other thing he said to do
and try this too, because this is interesting no matter
what you do in life. He said, make two lists, okay,
your strengths and weaknesses. Twenty five strengths and twenty five weaknesses. Okay.
So I was like, oh cool, be simple strengths weaknesses.
(03:25):
Wait till you get to number twelve or fifteen and
you're like, hamanahamanahamana, what's the next thing. It's very helpful
in revealing who you are now. I just I asked Annarel,
who's my executive assistant, to do this, and she totally
crushed it in five minutes, because some people are really
good at it, but I think most people are, like,
I'm not sure, is that so listom And it doesn't.
(03:48):
I don't mean in life strengths and weaknesses. It just
gives you a like thirty five thousand foot kind of
look at your life, and they're cool and interesting exercises
to deal with, so you know who you are and
what you're about. Okay, So the person I'm about to
interview knows all about this stuff. She's somebody who you
(04:10):
might remember from the two thousand and eight Olympics in Beijing.
She won four medals, one gold. She is a powerhouse. Okay,
we all remember her. She was tiny, adorable and crushing
it in. Her name's Sean Johnson. She's an incredible athlete
and she hit this pinnacle at age sixteen. So I
(04:33):
was always wondering, and I'm always so fascinated with people
like this, what happens when you get the goal at
that age? What happens to the rest of your life?
What happens from that point on? Well, she's now Sean
Johnson East, she's married, she's got children, and she's got
this incredible life but she learned so much about joy
(04:54):
and achievement and discipline and all of these things all
rolled into one. So this conversation here on Joy one
oh one with Sean Johnson East is going to be
fascinating because she's been to the top, she's had terrible potholes,
and she's come right back, and she knows the definition
(05:14):
of joy. So I hope you enjoyed this conversation. Hey,
how are you great?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Oh my god, you're so bright and shiny. I'm so happy.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I'm wonderful. It's been I think the last time I
saw you was in Paris.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Lay Molly the Olympic eggs. Yeah. Okay, first of all,
yay for Sean, Yay for Andrew. I'm so happy for you.
Speaking of the Olympics, let's just begin where we begin, Okay, Okay.
I remember Beijing because I was there in the audience
with a big bull of popcorn, and I remember Sean Johnson.
(05:57):
I remember four medals. I remember the goal on the beam.
I remembered thinking to myself, my god, the mountaintop is
right here, and this sixteen year old kid gets to
feel what it feels like. So I know what it
felt like on the outside looking in, What did it
feel like on the inside.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Like exactly what you just said, like the mountaintop. I
had dreamt of that moment. I had been working for
that moment. It it was a dream come true. It's
also such a roller coaster of emotions because to me,
that was such a finish line.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And I was only sixteen.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I was a junior in high school and to cross
a finish ligne that big at such a young age
was such an accomplishment.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But I didn't know what to do next.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I had to start over life. So I remember standing
on the podium thinking like what do I do now? Right?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I did this? I did this amazing thing, and this
is what it feels like. But again, we have to
remind ourselves, and you know that being a kid. You
were a teenager, Like any person who's listening remembers sick,
they remember what it was like to be that age.
And when when you hit the goal, did it feel
like I mean you said like oh no, now what next?
(07:10):
Do You seem like a what next?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Person?
Speaker 1 (07:12):
But for that moment to have reached it, because I
remember there was a whole thing with you and Nastia
Lucan and who's gonna get Who's going to get? It's
gonna be this one, that one. You know, everyone loves
to pit people against one another, especially at the Olympics.
How did you recover from having that kind of a
push pull with a dear friend who you loved and
(07:33):
also were kind of pitted against.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Well, I was with her two days ago. We spent
two days together.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
She is my best friend and she is truly my
family and my sister, and that's how we started as well.
So at the Olympics we actually got to choose who
we were going to room with, and Nastia and I
were inseparable. We are very similar in how we operate.
We're overthinker as perfectionists, we are very very finn and
(08:01):
we were sisters, and I remember we navigated it so
well all the way up until the Olympics, and I
remember at the Olympics we were still navigating it well.
But then that's kind of when all the outside voices
started coming in. You had agents, and you had sponsors,
and you had newspapers.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Back in the day, not even social media. Thank got
saying it was always her or I and I remember
being sixteen, she was eighteen.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
We didn't know how to navigate that after the Olympics,
and we actually didn't see each other or really speak.
And it's it's not because we didn't want to speak,
but we didn't really interact for eight years.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Eight years after the Olympics. Eight years.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
It feel like I mean, anyone who's had a falling
out with a frandom. Yeah, probably half more than half
people listening have What did it feel like for you
to lose someone who.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Understood I could cry about it on the spot. It
felt like I lost a part of me.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
She is.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
We went through such bonding and such I mean trauma
in a happy sense at such a young age. We
went through all of that, and she's the only one
who really understands me on that level, and I'm the
only one who understands her on that level. And I
just remember, in such a creepy way, we used to
follow each other. We knew exactly where each other were.
(09:21):
I knew every event she was at, I knew what
she was wearing. I was checking in on her, but
just from a distance. And I remember eight years later,
we were both in relationships at the time, and I
think our boyfriends got tired of hearing us talk about
each other, and both of our boyfriends at the time
said like, enough of this, you need to reach out.
And I wrote this long letter in an email. I
(09:44):
didn't even know if it was the same email that
she had, and I sent it to her and I
remember getting a response in like sixty seconds.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
What did she say?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
And it was just like I remember writing to her saying,
I love you, I have always loved you.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I will always be here for you. If you don't respond,
it's okay.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I know the world has changed, but just know I'm
here if you ever want.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
And she came back and she was the same way.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
She's like, I've missed you and we've been in Stepha,
well again ever fent.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Wow, that's beautiful. That's a beautiful way to come back
full circle. So Beijing, you're there, You're at the top
of the mountain, and I mean you ended up thinking
what's next? And the next Olympics was obviously what was
a next? I mean in addition to other competitions. So
did you immediately say I got to do this again?
And the answer is yes, then why you already did it?
(10:33):
Like you felt the feelings.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I crossed the finish line in two thousand and eight
thinking knowing I was done. I didn't really have any
aspirations to continue in gymnastics at that point in time.
I felt tired already and I was ready to go
take on the next thing for me. I my dream
after that was to be an orthropedic surgeon. Oh wow,
So I wanted to go to med school. But I
(10:58):
got kind of put on this roller coaster of the
aftermath of the Olympics, where things were just moving so fast.
I was on Dancing with the Stars, I was doing
public speaking, I was doing so much, and it seemed
like the roller coaster wasn't slowing down. And so year
after year I kept like deferring college and finding myself
(11:21):
faced with interviews or people are like, well, are.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
You gonna go back? Are you gonna go back? Are
you going to do it again? You should do it again.
You're really good at it.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
And I think that just kind of convinced me that
that must be what people want to see.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
And because I felt so lost in a sense of
like not knowing what to do.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Next, I went back, Wow, and I.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Went all the way back into international or world competition.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I made it to the Pan American Games.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I competed, and I remember thinking at Pan American Games,
this is cool, but.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I don't like it anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Well, by the way, that's a profound statement because you've
been doing it since you're three and then to have
a moment where something that part of you suddenly didn't
feel good anymore. What was the feeling? Was it fatigue
or was it.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Just what I just remember the way I tried to
describe it to even my coach is back in two
thousand and eight, I could overcome anything. I could overcome
any fear or even injury or roadblock or challenge because
I was so driven, because the end goal meant more
than anything.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
So I could get through rehab.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
I could get through the long trainings, the early mornings.
And then fast forward to around the time that I retired,
I remember even the smallest things feeling like the hardest
hurdles to get through, small pains felt really big, and
I think it was just because that passion was gone.
And I remember knowing just kind of facing this question
(12:47):
over and over of am I meant to still be
in this and knowing in my heart that I kept
answering the question no, but then having so many people
around me saying you're almost there, just sticking with it.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Sure, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
It's hard when the world wants you to do something
and you get swept up in the whole thing. So
during that time when you were doing Dancing with the Stars,
you had cheerios, you were giving speeches, you were I
mean everywhere I looked at from Sean Johnson like it
was really cool. But what was that's outside adoration? That's
(13:22):
cool winning Dancing with the Stars. You did it twice,
I think, But you had this love, but what was
bringing you joy? Like? Did that feel fulfilling to you?
During that time?
Speaker 3 (13:35):
That stuff did feel fulfilling, and I enjoyed it. I
remember thinking, I naturally am such a shy, introverted person,
so being on a stage is very hard. But I
remember thinking like I kept being put on stages and
I didn't know why because it was not natural to me,
but thinking that there had to be a purpose behind it,
so trying to at least.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Understand that I should do good with it. I don't
know how to say that.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
So I felt the pressure to take it seriously. So
I was feeling fulfilled. It just felt interesting because I'm
a very type a person. Two plus two has to
equal four, and for me, it was like this was
not what I planned. So I was trying to make
sense with where do I go from here? And when
I went back into gymnastics, I think it was then
(14:24):
that I started to feel very unfulfilled, which was confusing
because it was the one thing that I loved for
so long. And I remember being swept up into that
pressure of everyone saying just stick with it, you're so
close to twenty twelve, and thinking, I know that makes
sense to the world, but I can't under I can't
explain how this is just not bringing me any joy.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
And for some reason, I think that needs to be important.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
And when the day that I chose to retire for
the twenty twelve go ahead, I remember people thinking I
was absolutely crazy, but it was the most freeing decision
I've ever.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I want to dig into that because that's so interesting
to me, the moment that you decided, because there's one
thing to know inside, which it seems like you knew
for a while, but there's another thing to say it
out loud. So tell me about how that came to be,
what you said and what it felt like it had.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Been building for a while, and again, coming from the
athletic side, I think I was trying to weigh is
this just a hard phase or has something switched inside
of me? And when I kind of came to realize
that I was just I was done with the sport
and I needed to move on, I was ready to
kind of get rid of gymnastics and start over with
something new.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I didn't know what it was, but.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
I felt very excited about starting over rather than continuing.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
It was absolutely terrifying.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I remember I had many sponsors backing me for twenty twelve.
I had to call them by cell phone numbers as
a nineteen year old kid and say I just.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Don't love it anymore.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
And the corporate world doesn't quite understand that as well
as mom and dad do.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
So I had to face a lot of.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Disappointment and anger and I had to find it find
conviction in myself enough to say I know you're upset
and I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Can the best option the fact that you yourself called
I bet you any other nineteen year old I would
have said to somebody, will you call whoever and tell
them I can't do it? You physically called them and
told them I did.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I was in an interesting position where.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
My parents were my biggest supporters and so it was
me and my parents, but everybody else thought I was crazy.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
So they said, if you're going to do this, you
have to do it. So I did it.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
What was the hardest call? What was the toughest one
for you?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
There?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I can't. I don't just say they were, but just
what The commis had.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
A sponsor that was very angry, and I'm such a
people pleaser, so it was heartbreaking to me because I
really valued their respect and I want to make people
happy and I want to, you know, perform for them
and to hear the anger, which I now understand as
an adult, came with a lot of pressure from their side.
(17:25):
But that was really hard. I didn't like feeling like
I was letting people down, and I didn't know how
to explain or articulate the conviction I have knowing this
was not my time. Someone else is meant to have
this spot. I'm not meant to be in twenty twelve.
It was really hard, and people had invested a lot
of time and money, which I gave it all back.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
You did, Oh, I did?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Okay? Another just another another wow, just to pause for
a second, because again I think a lot of nineteen
year olds would have said, hey, I have the cash,
thank you very much, But now, of course she did.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I think I was.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
I was really lucky to have a coach who taught
me from a very young age that it was never
about the title or the metal. It was about the
effort and the joy. And he preserved that my whole career.
And I just remember in those hard conversations having to
remind myself of this, like, I know this is the
right choice, and if I'm doing it for the money,
for the title, for the fame, then it's the wrong
(18:26):
it's the wrong purpose. And so when I got through
all those conversations, I felt like I was floating in
the clouds. It was very hard, but I felt such
a weight lifted off my shoulders. And it was because
I went to twenty twelve to work and not compete
that I actually met my husband.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So it was all meant to be.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Okay. First of all, that's beautiful, and I also I
think the relief, the warm hand on your heart, the
oh my gosh, I just did it, and I feel free.
I think after every difficult conversation. Probably think of any
difficult that may have been the most that you've ever had,
but over the course of your life, it's like, I
think anyone who's even like, I've got to tell my
(19:08):
I got to tell my husband, I got to tell
my boss. I have to. The minute you say it,
even if it's the hardest conversation, your shoulders drop like
two or three inches and you feel so to get
on the other side of that is huge. Okay. So
you go for the Today Show, Yay Yay, to the
Olympics to work in and I remember that too. So
you're going along and you're doing I think commentating social media,
(19:32):
a whole bunch of stuff, right, Okay, I remember that.
And then so how did this mystery meeting come to be?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
One of the events that I was asked to go
cover was a cycling event. And I was at this
cycling event and I didn't know what I was watching,
and they set me up with a USA cycling athlete
and his name was Guy East and he wasn't competing,
but he there with his teammates, and I remember he
(20:01):
was explaining everything to me and how cycling world worked
and what I was watching it's a very confusing sport,
and I'm doing the social media thing. And I remember
at the end of the event he said, if you
take anything away from our conversation, it said, I think
you should meet my younger brother. And I was like, what,
Like this took a weird turn. Fast forward I think
(20:22):
probably five months that younger brother, who's now my husband,
flew out to la while I was on Dancing with
the Stars and we went on a blind date. And
I thought he was so adorable, but I didn't know
how it would work. And he lived in Nashville, he
was going to Vanderbilt. Fast forward a little bit longer.
We went on a second date in Nashville, and I
remember telling my mom I was like, I think, I
(20:44):
think this is the guy I'm going to marry.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Really, so it must have been a little intimidating for
the brother Andrew to fly out to Dancing with the
Stars to go on a blind date with you. What
was was he awkward? Was it was he just? Was
he a cool customer?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Like?
Speaker 1 (21:03):
What was he on the first day?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
He was the nerdiest, most awkward, most unfinessed human I
had ever seen. And I think there was honestly, something
so endearing about it. Yeah, I feel like coming from
the Olympic world and coming from Dancing with the Stars
in La I had seen.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Such facades that were perfect for so long.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
And he was just so unapologetically himself and such a
gentleman and knew nothing of Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
He hadn't been on a plane before.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Without his family, and I was like, I started traveling
when I was twelve, what.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Do you mean?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
And it was just it was so pure and he
could have just normal human conversations. He didn't ask a
single thing about Olympics or gymnastics. He asked about like
me as a person, and I hadn't had that in.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
A long time.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
About amazing, I mean, talk about what you needed. I
mean again, like I believe, just like you, like, things
are meant to be the world. I mean, you know,
it worked out the way it was obviously supposed to.
But you were in an interesting time because you had
already stepped away from gymnastics and you're still kind of
(22:20):
looking for your groove thing, like you want something. So
was he being an outsider like that, I would imagine.
I don't know, but was he sort of helpful because
he saw all of you. He didn't see you as
Shawn the gymnast or Shawn the one the dancer or whatever.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Absolutely, I think he healed me, honestly.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
He let me.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Be just me and not do anything.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
And I remember after so we met in La on
dan Z with the Stars. There was a nine month
period before our second date and after our second date,
I think it took two months to dating before I
moved to Nashville and I ended up transferring to Vanderbilt
with him, and I just I did nothing. He let
me be just a student and just a person and
(23:11):
not chase all these titles anymore. And he rebuilt my
confidence from the ground up at just being able to
fail beautifully at everything and be completely average and that
be celebrated. And he truly saw all these insecurities and
one by one would address them and help me kind
of heal from them, not be a perfectionist and elly
(23:34):
athlete anymore.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
By the way, that's a huge step, because there are
probably a ton of people listening who are perfectionists in
one part of their life. To go from I need
to do it exactly right to average is cool. I
like being a student who gets I don't know what
you got. I got b's and c's in college. Who cares?
It doesn't really matter at the end. But to be someone,
(23:55):
how did that sit with you? Someone who's used to
being discipline got to get it, you know, I.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Mean it was very messy. Yeah, I had a lot
of good days and bad days.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
But I remember he would always talk to me and say,
there's this person me that I see when we're at
home and when we're on a date, and then all
of a sudden, you get in from in front of
a camera and.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
It's like you are a completely different person.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
And he said, if only the world got to see
who you actually were, and that would just unlock all
these things of.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I was taught to perform.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
I was taught to be perfect because it was I
was trying to gain a subjective judge's opinion of me
and try to make that the best. And it was
uncomfortable and it was scary, and there are a lot
of transitions and the workspace, but it was slow and
(24:55):
just beautiful, and he just held my hand through it.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
You know what I think you're I mean, I always
thought you're brave, But one of the bravest things you've
just said is after two months, you moved to Nashville.
I mean you just did it, Like that's a leap
of faith. That's scary. Some people would need some more
assurances that this was going to be something. I don't
want to uproot my life and go there. Tell me
(25:19):
about that process.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I always explained it as like I started. I had
to grow up at a very young age. So at twelve,
I remember flying to Belgium for the first time by
myself to compete for the United States, which is crazy
now that I'm a mom, I'm like, twelve, that's too young.
But I had lived a lot of life and I
was ready to find someone to share life with. And
I remember when I met him and we had this
(25:43):
like spark. I remember thinking, if I continue to travel
the world and if I continue to live on the
opposite side of the world from him or the country,
I'm not giving it the best chance to see if
it can become anything. And I remember thinking, I honestly
have nothing to lose if I moved to Nashville and
we go on two more dates and say this is
(26:06):
not it. Okay, I'll move somewhere else, like it's fine,
And I just remember thinking he's worth it to me
to see if this can last.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
And I think I scared the crap out of him.
You were like, Hi, I'm moving here, I'm going to
your college. I'm moving down the street from you.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
I am really like putting myself in your world. But
if it weren't for that, I don't think it would
have worked. I paused my life because that meant so
much to me. And when we secured that, and it
took a couple of years, you know, to find really
strong foundations, but it meant enough to me to take
the leave of faith and it worked out because of it.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Well, no kidding. I love that you said he changed
so much of you and rebuilt your confidence. I mean
that is epic. Why is he so wise? He was
just a kid, Like, how is he that wise?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I think? I mean, I think he's the greatest. So
I think he's just amazing. And I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
If it came out as wisdom. I just think it was.
It was just a kindness to be, you know, invested
into the depth of someone. We always my husband, I
talk a lot about I think the world really preaches
and tries to encourage people to live an we say
an inch deep and a mile wide anymore, that people
(27:25):
aren't actually getting to know.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Or people to their true depth, or to feel seen.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
And he made me feel seen, And especially coming from
professional athletics, where you don't need to be seen, you
just need to perform, that was a new concept for me.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Wow. Beautiful. So you guys have beautiful children. You have
a whole beautiful family and raising kids, and I was
thinking about how you were raised and how you would
choose to raise and often as moms. I mean, I
take some stuff from my mom that she that she
you know, how she raised me, and then some of
the stuff I just left the table. But what from
(28:02):
your childhood did you take on and say, you know what,
I want my kids to have these things, And what
did you say, you know what, this isn't going to
work for them.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
I would say both my husband and I were raised
similarly in the athletic world from our parents, and we're
definitely using that where our parents never valued athletics, they
valued good humans over everything. And my mom, I have
very vivid memories of she would beg me to skip gymnastics,
(28:33):
just quit it. Just don't do it anymore. It takes
up too much time. I missed my daughter. I want
to go shopping with you. I want to just play
hooky one day. You know, it was all these things
of it just is taking too much of you. And
my parents and Andrew's parents just taught us that athletics
were our choice.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
As long as we.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Were good humans and we had good values and kindness
and respect to people, that's all that mattered.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Loved us for who we were. We didn't have to
earn that.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
So I always knew that that was my choice, and
I really want to make sure my children know the
same thing.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
I don't care about titles.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
I don't care about placements, I don't care about I
just care that you try hard and you're a good human.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
And then if you want to go do whatever sport
you want to do, I love that. I'll be your
biggest cheerleader.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
If there's anything that I would change, I would just
say I'm an only child, and I'm very type A.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I was very driven.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
I was very much just a girl that could sit
still and paint and color and draw. I have two
very very wild boys, very wild boys, and I think
the hands off let me be the driver of everything
that my parents embraced as a kid.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
I think we need a little.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Bit more raining in with my boys, So I have
to be a little more stern with them than my
parents probably were with me.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Can I I'm just gonna go back one more second
of your child because I didn't know this about your
mom that she was like, don't do it. Quit. Yeah,
You're like, I'm not quitting. I'm doing it. So what
was the motivation for a little kid? Because I know
kids like things until it's hard usually and then they
stopped loving it. So what was pushing you all all
(30:17):
that time when you were little?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Myself, which is crazy, and I don't I had just
this drive. My parents opened me up to every opportunity
in life. They did such a beautiful job of that, especially,
I mean, to be very honest, they didn't have the
resources to do that. They they extended themselves to make
the universe just my playground. And so I tried so
many things and very quickly would quit things like don't
(30:43):
like it.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
One practice and I'm done. I don't want to be there.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
But there was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me,
and I think it has taught me, or it's given
me a belief maybe it's a delusional belief that we
all have one of those treasures inside of us.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
We just have to find it.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Because there was no roadblock, no challenge too hard that
I couldn't work through. I was so driven by it,
and my coach was the same way. He's like, if
you don't want to be here, you don't need to
be here. So I just wanted to have fun.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Oh my god, this is good. So wait when you
talked about so you're raising kids and when you were little,
you were your time was all spent, you know, doing
what you were doing. What about childhood? Like you kind
of say, God, I kind of wish I was. I
kind of wish I got to run wild a little bit.
Or is that not on your regret list?
Speaker 3 (31:38):
So, I mean, all of this sounds too good to
be true. As I answer this, it's going to be crazy.
But I don't feel like I missed anything in my childhood.
I was very lucky. My coach, Schiz moved from China
to the United States. They came from gymnastics in China,
where everything was taken from them as a child. They
(31:58):
had to be a professional from a very age, and
they didn't get to have fun or be kids. And
so their dream in moving to the United States was
to open a gym. And their words would say, raised
children who get to be children, but also get to
be good gymnasts. And so we did a very, very
condensed training schedule. We had to go to full day
(32:20):
of school. I got to attend every football game, every dance.
My coaches would let us play. They preserved the joy
in the childlike childhood for us. So all of my
memories there, I remember running around playing Capture the Flag
in my neighborhood. I had enough time to have friendships
(32:43):
outside of the gym. I went to Dairy Queen and
had stacks of pancakes after practice all the time.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I truly had a childhood. And I think that's because
of my coaches.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
That's really cool. So how do you raise your kids.
Who's the disciplinarian, Who's the one who lets it fly?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
I am one hundred percent of the disciplinaria. My husband
lets everything fuck.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
He's another child, which is so much fun, but it's crazy,
And how do we raise them? We say, I don't
know if this is going to sound right, but we
call it free range. We have very wild children who
are very curious and very able and just love to
run wild. And I have a four year old that
(33:25):
race his motocross.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Oh my god, not the.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Sport I would have chosen, but that is truly one
of his treasures. It's like the kid came out riding
a bike and a motorcycle. My dad rode professionally his
whole life. And then my husband comes from a whole
family of Olympic cyclists. So it's in there. But we
(33:50):
just we raised them to have fun, to be good humans,
but to have fun.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Any gymnasts in the group, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
I would have said no about a month ago, but
out of nowhere, my six year old has now asked
to go back to the gym so and she's loving it,
which is scaring me to death.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Why is that scaring you?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
This is going to get deep quickly.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
But I I think the world naturally will put an
unfair expectation on her.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
I think because.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Mom was good, people will expect her to be good.
And I don't think any child should be expected to
be good at something. I think they should be able
to fail and be terrible and be celebrated for it.
So I just don't want too much pressure.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
To be put on her, so you'll if she wants
to go that way, you'll say, all right, do it.
But you're just otherwise you just kind of hands off
to see what she's going to do.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Biggest cheerleader. I'm the mom in the stands watching never
anything more.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Do people forget?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
In my mind, it's going crazy. My mind's like, oh
my god, you're.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Like, please, God, where U I know? Just a little tip,
you're sweetie, you'll be ready. Tried that?
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Yeah, I remember she at one point asked my husband
to teach her to do something in gymnastics, and both
of us started laughing.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I was like, this is comic.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
How much do you want him to Do they get you?
Do they get your whole deal and your husband's deal.
Do they understand? Do they ever look at videos of you,
of you at Beijing, Beijing and go, oh that was mom?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Not really?
Speaker 3 (35:27):
I think we're just I think my daughter, being six,
is just now getting glimpses and understanding of like maybe
the magnitude.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
But we also try not to.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Flaunt anything because it's we don't want them living in
any type of shadow.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
It's their world now, it's not ours.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, So if people come up to you and say,
are you Sean Johnson? Do they go what's happening with
mom over there?
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (35:54):
We get a lot of questions of why don't they
want a picture of me like themselves?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
And I'm like, well, I don't know how to explain that.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
I'm like, mommy, someone watched Mommy do gymnastics, and yeah,
I don't know how to expectin it.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
So cute. By the way, that's the cutest thing ever,
someone watched Mommy do gymnastics. Yes, I'm sorry, beautiful statement. Well,
which just explains your entire parenting right there. That's just
how you go through. That is awesome. Can we talk about,
first of all, your awesome book. I opened it to
the back cover, which I'm sorry if that's not framed
(36:32):
in your house somewhere, I'm going to be super mad.
What a great picture of the two of you. It's
called The Courage to Commit. And of course I flipped
immediately to this chapter on Joy, chapter two, which I
was into, and I was so struck by one of
the things in it, and it says that you were
asked somebody, an audience member, asked you a question, The
(36:55):
question was you two live such structured lives, how do
you make base for joy? And you spend that chapter
talking about how confused we are about what joy actually
is because people don't think you can be disciplined and
have joy. So explain that thought process.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yes, so.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
The whole book is about like the depth of commitment,
what happens when you actually start saying no to things,
and like filtering your life to the things that actually matter.
I think we're in the anxious generation where there is
so much noise and so many voices in so many
options that it can be crippling to people. I think
people are being overwhelmed with decision fatigue, and instead of
(37:43):
choosing one thing or a couple of things, they're just
not choosing anything at all. They're swiping, you know, swipe
right culture. And the chapter of Joy, we argue that
joy is found in depth, and you can't achieve depth
without our discipline. And I mean that in the sense
(38:04):
of take parenting. It's not always joyful. It's very difficult.
There are a lot of hard nights and hard days
and hard phases. But the amount of joy you feel
looking at this human that you've raised and gone through
such hardship with and so many sleepless nights. That is
(38:26):
a joy and a depth that you can't reach if
you are just a parent for a day.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Or a babysitter for a day. Let's say that.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
And in our culture right now, I think the world
is trying to preach that if you keep hopping from
one honeymoon phase to another and just getting the dopamine
hit of an instant gratification, that I think that is
just instant happiness.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
That's not joy.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
So if you start structuring your life to really like
invest time into something, I think you're going to be
surprised the immense not happiness but joy.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
You feel all the difference, some of the difference. I
love the happiness and joy thing. And I know you
talk about it like butterflies when you meet him and yay,
and then after three years you know everyone gives the
side eye. So it is what's the difference there for you.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I think happiness is a momentary, fleeting, feeling emotion. I
think joy is felt in your soul and joy comes
with pain. And I say that in the sense of
like even in our marriage, at our on our wedding day,
I had happiness because I was like, oh.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
This is so exciting. I'm so giddy. I love this guy.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
But after ten years of marriage, we've gone through heartbreak
and hard arguments and times where we've disappointed each other.
But the amount of joy in my soul and my
being that I feel when I look at that man
is greater than anything I felt on.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Our wedding day.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
But it's because of time and pain and the investment
of it that compounds over time.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
That's first of all. That's a beautiful statement, and I
think some people might like sometimes when there are arguments
and bad moments in relationships where if you're in one,
you're going to have those. That's life. Sometimes that's all
people start seeing through that lens and then the next
thing comes and you go, well, there it goes again,
(40:27):
and then all of the sudden, before you know it,
you guys are not you guys, but whoever's listening. It's
like parallel paths that kind of start peeling off in
opposite directions. How did you make sure or ensure that
your marriage stayed the course in the middle even though
you had all these potholes, like all marriages do.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
It's actually something we took a lot of time to
write about, and it's how we try to approach life.
It's a gift I think we were given in athletics,
which is back in gymnastics. If I was faced with
a challenge, an injury, something I couldn't overcome, the yips,
whatever it was, I would take that. I would look
(41:12):
at that challenge and say, let's go find every tool
we can find to help me overcome it. That's coaches, sports, psychiatrists, dietitians.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Do I need to take time off?
Speaker 3 (41:27):
And I would approach that challenge from every angle and say,
how can I fix it? I think when it comes
to relationships and marriage and parenting and things that are
just happening in our daily life, we're operating as a
culture in a way that says, if it's hard, it
(41:47):
must not be right, instead of going back to athletics
and saying, oh, here's a challenge, how can I fix it?
And so my husband and I, I think, because we're
both athletes, have a very shared perspective on this of
if we hit a road bump, which we do all
the time, it's like, what can we do to fix it?
(42:08):
Who do we need to go find in the counseling world,
What mentors should we bring in what should we change
in our routine? What should we change about ourselves? But
it's always this active idea of how can we better it?
And so in each chapter we write about all the
different factors and angles to attack a problem, whether it's
your environment or your belief, for your faith or your mentorships.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
How can you attack a problem?
Speaker 3 (42:34):
And I think it's just it's just going against the
cultural norm, but it works for us.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Why we have such a fruitful marriage?
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Now, how do you you know you've changed since obviously Beijing.
You've probably evolved a hundred times over. Your husband's probably
evolved one hundred times over. I'm sure you guys have
to reintroduce yourselves. Hi, I'm Sean. I don't like Applebee's anymore.
I used to love it or whatever it is. You know, however,
you know, but you always like that, but you always
(43:06):
How do you keep evolving? Because you can have a
relationship where you're understanding, but you're different, he's different. How
do you keep you know, keep reintroducing yourself if that's
the right word.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
We learned a little trick from He's a counselor. His
name's John Deloney, and he's a friend of ours. But
he taught us this trick years ago of in a
very basic way. He said, never stop dating your spouse,
and he means it in the sense of never stop
asking questions because things always change, and he asks his spouse,
(43:40):
and his spouse asks him all the time for an
updated resume, basically like what's your current favorite color.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Because that can change? Yeah, what's your favorite food?
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Right now? Who's your best friend? And I think if
we constantly approach our marriage like dating like we did
when we were dating, it's with so much curiosity as
to where are you right now? And I've seen it
as my husband we go through phases of life where
he's stressed or entranced to something new or like it's
(44:15):
constantly different and I'm constantly learning about him. And I
think a lot of times people will get it wrong
when they think that the marriage, like getting married, is
a finish line and now you just get to coast,
when I think it's actually a starting line and it's
a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Oh beautiful. So you know, there are a lot of
little kids who I'm sure come up to you, which
is I'm sure I can just imagine when you walk
down like, oh, Sean tell me, what what? What's something
that you would want? These little kids, the young girls
who are coming up now, many of whom are wrapped
up in social media, wrapped up in what do they
(44:51):
think they want? You know there it is performative often
how they're living now, whether they're you know, an athlete
or somebody or not. What would you say to those
kids who are probably needing joy and not really finding it?
Speaker 3 (45:10):
I would probably say what I say to my daughter
now and my kids, which is and this is like
my personal belief, but it's that I think I would
say God has placed hidden treasures in every one of
our hearts, and all of our treasures are different, like
my treasures are different than from my daughters, from my son,
(45:31):
my other son. But it's the adventure of life to
try to find them, and if you get lucky enough
to find even one, you need to do everything in
your power to protect it. And I say that because
I had a conversation with my daughter once where she
was like.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
What if I think she was.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Talking about gymnastics, but she's like, what if I don't
do gymnastics? And I was like, that's mommy's treasure that
doesn't have to be yours. You will find a treasure
and it will light you up and it should be
different than everyone else's.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
But the hardship of life is the world will try
to will try to take.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Your treasure from you, or say it's not worth value,
or say it's not a good enough title, and it's
your challenge in life to protect it. So I would
I would tell kids that just go on your adventure
and try to find it, and if you can, you
have to protect it with everything you've got.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
By the way, you didn't just tell kids, you just
told grown ups, because I think that's I think there
are plenty of grown ups who are on there, walking
along this path and it may be filled with potholes
and kind of dusty and maybe not realizing that there's
actually a path. It's just over this way. It's lush
and green and full and has all of the things
that they're way there that they want. But this one's
(46:52):
easy because they've been on it and they don't know
how to get off it. And this is where I've been.
Sounds like you've done a great job of navigating your life, Sean.
You were delight by the way. Can I just say,
I mean, I know I've interviewed you before, but not
like this, not like this. This is so good. Please
grab this book. It's called The Courage to Commit, Embracing
the Radical Power, sticking with something. Sean. Wow. I mean, girl,
(47:17):
I love the new you. All right, thank you, thank you?
All right, Sean, have a good one. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
I mean, as I just said to Sean, like I've
spoken to her before but never liked that. I mean,
I knew that she was a deep thinker, and I
liked what she said about how a lot of people
are very shallow, you know, not going wide. Going deep
is really what she's describing, and she spent her life
going deep and trying to find ways to make everything
(47:48):
better in her relationships with her kids. I was, I'm
so turned on, Like I am, I'm just on fire
for what Sean Johnson East is serving up. She reminded
me that like other chapters in life, are possible, and
they're full of love and joy. I mean, imagine, if
you hit your peek at sixteen, at least in one profession,
(48:11):
then what And she just proved and you can see
it in her eyes if you're watching the podcast, and
you can hear it in her voice, she's full of joy,
she's in a beautiful chapter in her life, and she's growing,
she's deepening her understanding, her spirituality, her life, all those things.
It was beautiful. My cup's full, man, my cup is full.
(48:34):
So anyway, let me just close. This is a quote
I like to close with, like a quote or a poem.
And there was something about this that struck me. And
it's a simple quote and it says, she was never
quite ready, but she was brave, and the universe listens
to brave. The universe listens to brave. So for all
of us as we are going through transitions in life,
(48:56):
we don't always have to be ready. We just have
to be She was never quite ready, but she was brave,
and the universe listens to brave. That's by Rebecca Ray.
Thanks you guys for listening.
Okay. So I consider myself a seeker, someone who's trying
to improve, get better, learn something, you know, that kind
of thing. So I'm a real I'm always hungry for
a podcast, ted talk, a commencement address, doesn't matter. I
like them all. So I started this company called Joy
(00:32):
one oh one, which is a beautiful wellness based company
that's got all kinds of stuff there. It's got an app,
and it's got retreats and all this stuff. But what
I learned when I started this new thing, and maybe
you started something new and you get this, it's like
you've always done one thing your whole life, and suddenly
now you're switching into another job. So I'm now a CEO.
(00:54):
I've never been a CEO, but I figured, oh, yeah,
it's easy. You just live how you owe live and
do the thing Jo always did. That's not how it works.
When you have a new job that requires new skills,
you have to learn that job too. So I did
something that's super cool and I'm so excited about it.
So I hired a leadership coach and I didn't even
(01:18):
know what that was. So I had my very first
session and I was thinking, what's this guy gonna show
me or tell me or whatever. So this is just
session one. So for session one, he said to me,
tell me about your life in ten minutes. So I thought, okay,
so that's from the beginning to where we are right now. Now,
think about if someone asked you tell your life in
(01:38):
ten minutes, what would you highlight? What would be the
big moments. That's an easy way to distill down what
matters to you, what's important. What are your highlights of life?
So I did the ten minutes, and then he was
he was giving me some pointers and things, and then
he said something interesting. He said, after this hour long
kind of just getting to know you, he said, I'm
(02:00):
going to give you two homework assignments. So I'm going
to give you the same too that he gave me,
because I think they're interesting. So the first one was
he said, whenever you talk, and I didn't know this
is how I spoke because I don't hear myself. I'm
just talking. He said, don't you don't say I was mad.
You say I was kind of mad, or I was
a little teed off, or I was kind of kind
(02:23):
of bug me. He said, every time you qualify with
kinda a little sort of what you are is upset
or whatever you're feeling, he said, throughout the next week,
every time you say one of those qualifying words, just
pause for a second. Don't correct it, just pause and
(02:44):
say to yourself, oh, there it is there. It is like,
let's say you're someone who apologizes all the time. Just
you know that. So as you go through the next week,
think about it. Every time you say, huh, oh, I
just said I'm sorry for bumping into a table or
you know how we do We're like, So this made
me conscious of ah, I don't need to clarify, be definitive,
(03:05):
like that's important. The other thing he said to do
and try this too, because this is interesting no matter
what you do in life. He said, make two lists, okay,
your strengths and weaknesses. Twenty five strengths and twenty five weaknesses. Okay.
So I was like, oh cool, be simple strengths weaknesses.
(03:25):
Wait till you get to number twelve or fifteen and
you're like, hamanahamanahamana, what's the next thing. It's very helpful
in revealing who you are now. I just I asked Annarel,
who's my executive assistant, to do this, and she totally
crushed it in five minutes, because some people are really
good at it, but I think most people are, like,
I'm not sure, is that so listom And it doesn't.
(03:48):
I don't mean in life strengths and weaknesses. It just
gives you a like thirty five thousand foot kind of
look at your life, and they're cool and interesting exercises
to deal with, so you know who you are and
what you're about. Okay, So the person I'm about to
interview knows all about this stuff. She's somebody who you
(04:10):
might remember from the two thousand and eight Olympics in Beijing.
She won four medals, one gold. She is a powerhouse. Okay,
we all remember her. She was tiny, adorable and crushing
it in. Her name's Sean Johnson. She's an incredible athlete
and she hit this pinnacle at age sixteen. So I
(04:33):
was always wondering, and I'm always so fascinated with people
like this, what happens when you get the goal at
that age? What happens to the rest of your life?
What happens from that point on? Well, she's now Sean
Johnson East, she's married, she's got children, and she's got
this incredible life but she learned so much about joy
(04:54):
and achievement and discipline and all of these things all
rolled into one. So this conversation here on Joy one
oh one with Sean Johnson East is going to be
fascinating because she's been to the top, she's had terrible potholes,
and she's come right back, and she knows the definition
(05:14):
of joy. So I hope you enjoyed this conversation. Hey,
how are you great?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Oh my god, you're so bright and shiny. I'm so happy.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I'm wonderful. It's been I think the last time I
saw you was in Paris.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Lay Molly the Olympic eggs. Yeah. Okay, first of all,
yay for Sean, Yay for Andrew. I'm so happy for you.
Speaking of the Olympics, let's just begin where we begin, Okay, Okay.
I remember Beijing because I was there in the audience
with a big bull of popcorn, and I remember Sean Johnson.
(05:57):
I remember four medals. I remember the goal on the beam.
I remembered thinking to myself, my god, the mountaintop is
right here, and this sixteen year old kid gets to
feel what it feels like. So I know what it
felt like on the outside looking in, What did it
feel like on the inside.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Like exactly what you just said, like the mountaintop. I
had dreamt of that moment. I had been working for
that moment. It it was a dream come true. It's
also such a roller coaster of emotions because to me,
that was such a finish line.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And I was only sixteen.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I was a junior in high school and to cross
a finish ligne that big at such a young age
was such an accomplishment.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But I didn't know what to do next.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I had to start over life. So I remember standing
on the podium thinking like what do I do now? Right?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I did this? I did this amazing thing, and this
is what it feels like. But again, we have to
remind ourselves, and you know that being a kid. You
were a teenager, Like any person who's listening remembers sick,
they remember what it was like to be that age.
And when when you hit the goal, did it feel
like I mean you said like oh no, now what next?
(07:10):
Do You seem like a what next?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Person?
Speaker 1 (07:12):
But for that moment to have reached it, because I
remember there was a whole thing with you and Nastia
Lucan and who's gonna get Who's going to get? It's
gonna be this one, that one. You know, everyone loves
to pit people against one another, especially at the Olympics.
How did you recover from having that kind of a
push pull with a dear friend who you loved and
(07:33):
also were kind of pitted against.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Well, I was with her two days ago. We spent
two days together.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
She is my best friend and she is truly my
family and my sister, and that's how we started as well.
So at the Olympics we actually got to choose who
we were going to room with, and Nastia and I
were inseparable. We are very similar in how we operate.
We're overthinker as perfectionists, we are very very finn and
(08:01):
we were sisters, and I remember we navigated it so
well all the way up until the Olympics, and I
remember at the Olympics we were still navigating it well.
But then that's kind of when all the outside voices
started coming in. You had agents, and you had sponsors,
and you had newspapers.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Back in the day, not even social media. Thank got
saying it was always her or I and I remember
being sixteen, she was eighteen.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
We didn't know how to navigate that after the Olympics,
and we actually didn't see each other or really speak.
And it's it's not because we didn't want to speak,
but we didn't really interact for eight years.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Eight years after the Olympics. Eight years.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
It feel like I mean, anyone who's had a falling
out with a frandom. Yeah, probably half more than half
people listening have What did it feel like for you
to lose someone who.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Understood I could cry about it on the spot. It
felt like I lost a part of me.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
She is.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
We went through such bonding and such I mean trauma
in a happy sense at such a young age. We
went through all of that, and she's the only one
who really understands me on that level, and I'm the
only one who understands her on that level. And I
just remember, in such a creepy way, we used to
follow each other. We knew exactly where each other were.
(09:21):
I knew every event she was at, I knew what
she was wearing. I was checking in on her, but
just from a distance. And I remember eight years later,
we were both in relationships at the time, and I
think our boyfriends got tired of hearing us talk about
each other, and both of our boyfriends at the time
said like, enough of this, you need to reach out.
And I wrote this long letter in an email. I
(09:44):
didn't even know if it was the same email that
she had, and I sent it to her and I
remember getting a response in like sixty seconds.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
What did she say?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
And it was just like I remember writing to her saying,
I love you, I have always loved you.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I will always be here for you. If you don't respond,
it's okay.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I know the world has changed, but just know I'm
here if you ever want.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
And she came back and she was the same way.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
She's like, I've missed you and we've been in Stepha,
well again ever fent.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Wow, that's beautiful. That's a beautiful way to come back
full circle. So Beijing, you're there, You're at the top
of the mountain, and I mean you ended up thinking
what's next? And the next Olympics was obviously what was
a next? I mean in addition to other competitions. So
did you immediately say I got to do this again?
And the answer is yes, then why you already did it?
(10:33):
Like you felt the feelings.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I crossed the finish line in two thousand and eight
thinking knowing I was done. I didn't really have any
aspirations to continue in gymnastics at that point in time.
I felt tired already and I was ready to go
take on the next thing for me. I my dream
after that was to be an orthropedic surgeon. Oh wow,
So I wanted to go to med school. But I
(10:58):
got kind of put on this roller coaster of the
aftermath of the Olympics, where things were just moving so fast.
I was on Dancing with the Stars, I was doing
public speaking, I was doing so much, and it seemed
like the roller coaster wasn't slowing down. And so year
after year I kept like deferring college and finding myself
(11:21):
faced with interviews or people are like, well, are.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
You gonna go back? Are you gonna go back? Are
you going to do it again? You should do it again.
You're really good at it.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
And I think that just kind of convinced me that
that must be what people want to see.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
And because I felt so lost in a sense of
like not knowing what to do.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Next, I went back, Wow, and I.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Went all the way back into international or world competition.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I made it to the Pan American Games.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I competed, and I remember thinking at Pan American Games,
this is cool, but.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I don't like it anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Well, by the way, that's a profound statement because you've
been doing it since you're three and then to have
a moment where something that part of you suddenly didn't
feel good anymore. What was the feeling? Was it fatigue
or was it.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Just what I just remember the way I tried to
describe it to even my coach is back in two
thousand and eight, I could overcome anything. I could overcome
any fear or even injury or roadblock or challenge because
I was so driven, because the end goal meant more
than anything.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
So I could get through rehab.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
I could get through the long trainings, the early mornings.
And then fast forward to around the time that I retired,
I remember even the smallest things feeling like the hardest
hurdles to get through, small pains felt really big, and
I think it was just because that passion was gone.
And I remember knowing just kind of facing this question
(12:47):
over and over of am I meant to still be
in this and knowing in my heart that I kept
answering the question no, but then having so many people
around me saying you're almost there, just sticking with it.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Sure, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
It's hard when the world wants you to do something
and you get swept up in the whole thing. So
during that time when you were doing Dancing with the Stars,
you had cheerios, you were giving speeches, you were I
mean everywhere I looked at from Sean Johnson like it
was really cool. But what was that's outside adoration? That's
(13:22):
cool winning Dancing with the Stars. You did it twice,
I think, But you had this love, but what was
bringing you joy? Like? Did that feel fulfilling to you?
During that time?
Speaker 3 (13:35):
That stuff did feel fulfilling, and I enjoyed it. I
remember thinking, I naturally am such a shy, introverted person,
so being on a stage is very hard. But I
remember thinking like I kept being put on stages and
I didn't know why because it was not natural to me,
but thinking that there had to be a purpose behind it,
so trying to at least.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Understand that I should do good with it. I don't
know how to say that.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
So I felt the pressure to take it seriously. So
I was feeling fulfilled. It just felt interesting because I'm
a very type a person. Two plus two has to
equal four, and for me, it was like this was
not what I planned. So I was trying to make
sense with where do I go from here? And when
I went back into gymnastics, I think it was then
(14:24):
that I started to feel very unfulfilled, which was confusing
because it was the one thing that I loved for
so long. And I remember being swept up into that
pressure of everyone saying just stick with it, you're so
close to twenty twelve, and thinking, I know that makes
sense to the world, but I can't under I can't
explain how this is just not bringing me any joy.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
And for some reason, I think that needs to be important.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
And when the day that I chose to retire for
the twenty twelve go ahead, I remember people thinking I
was absolutely crazy, but it was the most freeing decision
I've ever.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I want to dig into that because that's so interesting
to me, the moment that you decided, because there's one
thing to know inside, which it seems like you knew
for a while, but there's another thing to say it
out loud. So tell me about how that came to be,
what you said and what it felt like it had.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Been building for a while, and again, coming from the
athletic side, I think I was trying to weigh is
this just a hard phase or has something switched inside
of me? And when I kind of came to realize
that I was just I was done with the sport
and I needed to move on, I was ready to
kind of get rid of gymnastics and start over with
something new.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I didn't know what it was, but.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
I felt very excited about starting over rather than continuing.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
It was absolutely terrifying.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I remember I had many sponsors backing me for twenty twelve.
I had to call them by cell phone numbers as
a nineteen year old kid and say I just.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Don't love it anymore.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
And the corporate world doesn't quite understand that as well
as mom and dad do.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
So I had to face a lot of.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Disappointment and anger and I had to find it find
conviction in myself enough to say I know you're upset
and I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Can the best option the fact that you yourself called
I bet you any other nineteen year old I would
have said to somebody, will you call whoever and tell
them I can't do it? You physically called them and
told them I did.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I was in an interesting position where.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
My parents were my biggest supporters and so it was
me and my parents, but everybody else thought I was crazy.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
So they said, if you're going to do this, you
have to do it. So I did it.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
What was the hardest call? What was the toughest one
for you?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
There?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I can't. I don't just say they were, but just
what The commis had.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
A sponsor that was very angry, and I'm such a
people pleaser, so it was heartbreaking to me because I
really valued their respect and I want to make people
happy and I want to, you know, perform for them
and to hear the anger, which I now understand as
an adult, came with a lot of pressure from their side.
(17:25):
But that was really hard. I didn't like feeling like
I was letting people down, and I didn't know how
to explain or articulate the conviction I have knowing this
was not my time. Someone else is meant to have
this spot. I'm not meant to be in twenty twelve.
It was really hard, and people had invested a lot
of time and money, which I gave it all back.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
You did, Oh, I did?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Okay? Another just another another wow, just to pause for
a second, because again I think a lot of nineteen
year olds would have said, hey, I have the cash,
thank you very much, But now, of course she did.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I think I was.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
I was really lucky to have a coach who taught
me from a very young age that it was never
about the title or the metal. It was about the
effort and the joy. And he preserved that my whole career.
And I just remember in those hard conversations having to
remind myself of this, like, I know this is the
right choice, and if I'm doing it for the money,
for the title, for the fame, then it's the wrong
(18:26):
it's the wrong purpose. And so when I got through
all those conversations, I felt like I was floating in
the clouds. It was very hard, but I felt such
a weight lifted off my shoulders. And it was because
I went to twenty twelve to work and not compete
that I actually met my husband.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So it was all meant to be.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Okay. First of all, that's beautiful, and I also I
think the relief, the warm hand on your heart, the
oh my gosh, I just did it, and I feel free.
I think after every difficult conversation. Probably think of any
difficult that may have been the most that you've ever had,
but over the course of your life, it's like, I
think anyone who's even like, I've got to tell my
(19:08):
I got to tell my husband, I got to tell
my boss. I have to. The minute you say it,
even if it's the hardest conversation, your shoulders drop like
two or three inches and you feel so to get
on the other side of that is huge. Okay. So
you go for the Today Show, Yay Yay, to the
Olympics to work in and I remember that too. So
you're going along and you're doing I think commentating social media,
(19:32):
a whole bunch of stuff, right, Okay, I remember that.
And then so how did this mystery meeting come to be?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
One of the events that I was asked to go
cover was a cycling event. And I was at this
cycling event and I didn't know what I was watching,
and they set me up with a USA cycling athlete
and his name was Guy East and he wasn't competing,
but he there with his teammates, and I remember he
(20:01):
was explaining everything to me and how cycling world worked
and what I was watching it's a very confusing sport,
and I'm doing the social media thing. And I remember
at the end of the event he said, if you
take anything away from our conversation, it said, I think
you should meet my younger brother. And I was like, what,
Like this took a weird turn. Fast forward I think
(20:22):
probably five months that younger brother, who's now my husband,
flew out to la while I was on Dancing with
the Stars and we went on a blind date. And
I thought he was so adorable, but I didn't know
how it would work. And he lived in Nashville, he
was going to Vanderbilt. Fast forward a little bit longer.
We went on a second date in Nashville, and I
remember telling my mom I was like, I think, I
(20:44):
think this is the guy I'm going to marry.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Really, so it must have been a little intimidating for
the brother Andrew to fly out to Dancing with the
Stars to go on a blind date with you. What
was was he awkward? Was it was he just? Was
he a cool customer?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Like?
Speaker 1 (21:03):
What was he on the first day?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
He was the nerdiest, most awkward, most unfinessed human I
had ever seen. And I think there was honestly, something
so endearing about it. Yeah, I feel like coming from
the Olympic world and coming from Dancing with the Stars
in La I had seen.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Such facades that were perfect for so long.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
And he was just so unapologetically himself and such a
gentleman and knew nothing of Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
He hadn't been on a plane before.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Without his family, and I was like, I started traveling
when I was twelve, what.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Do you mean?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
And it was just it was so pure and he
could have just normal human conversations. He didn't ask a
single thing about Olympics or gymnastics. He asked about like
me as a person, and I hadn't had that in.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
A long time.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
About amazing, I mean, talk about what you needed. I
mean again, like I believe, just like you, like, things
are meant to be the world. I mean, you know,
it worked out the way it was obviously supposed to.
But you were in an interesting time because you had
already stepped away from gymnastics and you're still kind of
(22:20):
looking for your groove thing, like you want something. So
was he being an outsider like that, I would imagine.
I don't know, but was he sort of helpful because
he saw all of you. He didn't see you as
Shawn the gymnast or Shawn the one the dancer or whatever.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Absolutely, I think he healed me, honestly.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
He let me.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Be just me and not do anything.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
And I remember after so we met in La on
dan Z with the Stars. There was a nine month
period before our second date and after our second date,
I think it took two months to dating before I
moved to Nashville and I ended up transferring to Vanderbilt
with him, and I just I did nothing. He let
me be just a student and just a person and
(23:11):
not chase all these titles anymore. And he rebuilt my
confidence from the ground up at just being able to
fail beautifully at everything and be completely average and that
be celebrated. And he truly saw all these insecurities and
one by one would address them and help me kind
of heal from them, not be a perfectionist and elly
(23:34):
athlete anymore.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
By the way, that's a huge step, because there are
probably a ton of people listening who are perfectionists in
one part of their life. To go from I need
to do it exactly right to average is cool. I
like being a student who gets I don't know what
you got. I got b's and c's in college. Who cares?
It doesn't really matter at the end. But to be someone,
(23:55):
how did that sit with you? Someone who's used to
being discipline got to get it, you know, I.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Mean it was very messy. Yeah, I had a lot
of good days and bad days.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
But I remember he would always talk to me and say,
there's this person me that I see when we're at
home and when we're on a date, and then all
of a sudden, you get in from in front of
a camera and.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
It's like you are a completely different person.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
And he said, if only the world got to see
who you actually were, and that would just unlock all
these things of.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I was taught to perform.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
I was taught to be perfect because it was I
was trying to gain a subjective judge's opinion of me
and try to make that the best. And it was
uncomfortable and it was scary, and there are a lot
of transitions and the workspace, but it was slow and
(24:55):
just beautiful, and he just held my hand through it.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
You know what I think you're I mean, I always
thought you're brave, But one of the bravest things you've
just said is after two months, you moved to Nashville.
I mean you just did it, Like that's a leap
of faith. That's scary. Some people would need some more
assurances that this was going to be something. I don't
want to uproot my life and go there. Tell me
(25:19):
about that process.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I always explained it as like I started. I had
to grow up at a very young age. So at twelve,
I remember flying to Belgium for the first time by
myself to compete for the United States, which is crazy
now that I'm a mom, I'm like, twelve, that's too young.
But I had lived a lot of life and I
was ready to find someone to share life with. And
I remember when I met him and we had this
(25:43):
like spark. I remember thinking, if I continue to travel
the world and if I continue to live on the
opposite side of the world from him or the country,
I'm not giving it the best chance to see if
it can become anything. And I remember thinking, I honestly
have nothing to lose if I moved to Nashville and
we go on two more dates and say this is
(26:06):
not it. Okay, I'll move somewhere else, like it's fine,
And I just remember thinking he's worth it to me
to see if this can last.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
And I think I scared the crap out of him.
You were like, Hi, I'm moving here, I'm going to
your college. I'm moving down the street from you.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
I am really like putting myself in your world. But
if it weren't for that, I don't think it would
have worked. I paused my life because that meant so
much to me. And when we secured that, and it
took a couple of years, you know, to find really
strong foundations, but it meant enough to me to take
the leave of faith and it worked out because of it.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Well, no kidding. I love that you said he changed
so much of you and rebuilt your confidence. I mean
that is epic. Why is he so wise? He was
just a kid, Like, how is he that wise?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I think? I mean, I think he's the greatest. So
I think he's just amazing. And I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
If it came out as wisdom. I just think it was.
It was just a kindness to be, you know, invested
into the depth of someone. We always my husband, I
talk a lot about I think the world really preaches
and tries to encourage people to live an we say
an inch deep and a mile wide anymore, that people
(27:25):
aren't actually getting to know.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Or people to their true depth, or to feel seen.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
And he made me feel seen, And especially coming from
professional athletics, where you don't need to be seen, you
just need to perform, that was a new concept for me.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Wow. Beautiful. So you guys have beautiful children. You have
a whole beautiful family and raising kids, and I was
thinking about how you were raised and how you would
choose to raise and often as moms. I mean, I
take some stuff from my mom that she that she
you know, how she raised me, and then some of
the stuff I just left the table. But what from
(28:02):
your childhood did you take on and say, you know what,
I want my kids to have these things, And what
did you say, you know what, this isn't going to
work for them.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
I would say both my husband and I were raised
similarly in the athletic world from our parents, and we're
definitely using that where our parents never valued athletics, they
valued good humans over everything. And my mom, I have
very vivid memories of she would beg me to skip gymnastics,
(28:33):
just quit it. Just don't do it anymore. It takes
up too much time. I missed my daughter. I want
to go shopping with you. I want to just play
hooky one day. You know, it was all these things
of it just is taking too much of you. And
my parents and Andrew's parents just taught us that athletics
were our choice.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
As long as we.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Were good humans and we had good values and kindness
and respect to people, that's all that mattered.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Loved us for who we were. We didn't have to
earn that.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
So I always knew that that was my choice, and
I really want to make sure my children know the
same thing.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
I don't care about titles.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
I don't care about placements, I don't care about I
just care that you try hard and you're a good human.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
And then if you want to go do whatever sport
you want to do, I love that. I'll be your
biggest cheerleader.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
If there's anything that I would change, I would just
say I'm an only child, and I'm very type A.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I was very driven.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
I was very much just a girl that could sit
still and paint and color and draw. I have two
very very wild boys, very wild boys, and I think
the hands off let me be the driver of everything
that my parents embraced as a kid.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
I think we need a little.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Bit more raining in with my boys, So I have
to be a little more stern with them than my
parents probably were with me.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Can I I'm just gonna go back one more second
of your child because I didn't know this about your
mom that she was like, don't do it. Quit. Yeah,
You're like, I'm not quitting. I'm doing it. So what
was the motivation for a little kid? Because I know
kids like things until it's hard usually and then they
stopped loving it. So what was pushing you all all
(30:17):
that time when you were little?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Myself, which is crazy, and I don't I had just
this drive. My parents opened me up to every opportunity
in life. They did such a beautiful job of that, especially,
I mean, to be very honest, they didn't have the
resources to do that. They they extended themselves to make
the universe just my playground. And so I tried so
many things and very quickly would quit things like don't
(30:43):
like it.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
One practice and I'm done. I don't want to be there.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
But there was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me,
and I think it has taught me, or it's given
me a belief maybe it's a delusional belief that we
all have one of those treasures inside of us.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
We just have to find it.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Because there was no roadblock, no challenge too hard that
I couldn't work through. I was so driven by it,
and my coach was the same way. He's like, if
you don't want to be here, you don't need to
be here. So I just wanted to have fun.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Oh my god, this is good. So wait when you
talked about so you're raising kids and when you were little,
you were your time was all spent, you know, doing
what you were doing. What about childhood? Like you kind
of say, God, I kind of wish I was. I
kind of wish I got to run wild a little bit.
Or is that not on your regret list?
Speaker 3 (31:38):
So, I mean, all of this sounds too good to
be true. As I answer this, it's going to be crazy.
But I don't feel like I missed anything in my childhood.
I was very lucky. My coach, Schiz moved from China
to the United States. They came from gymnastics in China,
where everything was taken from them as a child. They
(31:58):
had to be a professional from a very age, and
they didn't get to have fun or be kids. And
so their dream in moving to the United States was
to open a gym. And their words would say, raised
children who get to be children, but also get to
be good gymnasts. And so we did a very, very
condensed training schedule. We had to go to full day
(32:20):
of school. I got to attend every football game, every dance.
My coaches would let us play. They preserved the joy
in the childlike childhood for us. So all of my
memories there, I remember running around playing Capture the Flag
in my neighborhood. I had enough time to have friendships
(32:43):
outside of the gym. I went to Dairy Queen and
had stacks of pancakes after practice all the time.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I truly had a childhood. And I think that's because
of my coaches.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
That's really cool. So how do you raise your kids.
Who's the disciplinarian, Who's the one who lets it fly?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
I am one hundred percent of the disciplinaria. My husband
lets everything fuck.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
He's another child, which is so much fun, but it's crazy,
And how do we raise them? We say, I don't
know if this is going to sound right, but we
call it free range. We have very wild children who
are very curious and very able and just love to
run wild. And I have a four year old that
(33:25):
race his motocross.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Oh my god, not the.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Sport I would have chosen, but that is truly one
of his treasures. It's like the kid came out riding
a bike and a motorcycle. My dad rode professionally his
whole life. And then my husband comes from a whole
family of Olympic cyclists. So it's in there. But we
(33:50):
just we raised them to have fun, to be good humans,
but to have fun.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Any gymnasts in the group, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
I would have said no about a month ago, but
out of nowhere, my six year old has now asked
to go back to the gym so and she's loving it,
which is scaring me to death.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Why is that scaring you?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
This is going to get deep quickly.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
But I I think the world naturally will put an
unfair expectation on her.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
I think because.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Mom was good, people will expect her to be good.
And I don't think any child should be expected to
be good at something. I think they should be able
to fail and be terrible and be celebrated for it.
So I just don't want too much pressure.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
To be put on her, so you'll if she wants
to go that way, you'll say, all right, do it.
But you're just otherwise you just kind of hands off
to see what she's going to do.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Biggest cheerleader. I'm the mom in the stands watching never
anything more.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Do people forget?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
In my mind, it's going crazy. My mind's like, oh
my god, you're.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Like, please, God, where U I know? Just a little tip,
you're sweetie, you'll be ready. Tried that?
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Yeah, I remember she at one point asked my husband
to teach her to do something in gymnastics, and both
of us started laughing.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I was like, this is comic.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
How much do you want him to Do they get you?
Do they get your whole deal and your husband's deal.
Do they understand? Do they ever look at videos of you,
of you at Beijing, Beijing and go, oh that was mom?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Not really?
Speaker 3 (35:27):
I think we're just I think my daughter, being six,
is just now getting glimpses and understanding of like maybe
the magnitude.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
But we also try not to.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Flaunt anything because it's we don't want them living in
any type of shadow.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
It's their world now, it's not ours.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, So if people come up to you and say,
are you Sean Johnson? Do they go what's happening with
mom over there?
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (35:54):
We get a lot of questions of why don't they
want a picture of me like themselves?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
And I'm like, well, I don't know how to explain that.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
I'm like, mommy, someone watched Mommy do gymnastics, and yeah,
I don't know how to expectin it.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
So cute. By the way, that's the cutest thing ever,
someone watched Mommy do gymnastics. Yes, I'm sorry, beautiful statement. Well,
which just explains your entire parenting right there. That's just
how you go through. That is awesome. Can we talk about,
first of all, your awesome book. I opened it to
the back cover, which I'm sorry if that's not framed
(36:32):
in your house somewhere, I'm going to be super mad.
What a great picture of the two of you. It's
called The Courage to Commit. And of course I flipped
immediately to this chapter on Joy, chapter two, which I
was into, and I was so struck by one of
the things in it, and it says that you were
asked somebody, an audience member, asked you a question, The
(36:55):
question was you two live such structured lives, how do
you make base for joy? And you spend that chapter
talking about how confused we are about what joy actually
is because people don't think you can be disciplined and
have joy. So explain that thought process.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yes, so.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
The whole book is about like the depth of commitment,
what happens when you actually start saying no to things,
and like filtering your life to the things that actually matter.
I think we're in the anxious generation where there is
so much noise and so many voices in so many
options that it can be crippling to people. I think
people are being overwhelmed with decision fatigue, and instead of
(37:43):
choosing one thing or a couple of things, they're just
not choosing anything at all. They're swiping, you know, swipe
right culture. And the chapter of Joy, we argue that
joy is found in depth, and you can't achieve depth
without our discipline. And I mean that in the sense
(38:04):
of take parenting. It's not always joyful. It's very difficult.
There are a lot of hard nights and hard days
and hard phases. But the amount of joy you feel
looking at this human that you've raised and gone through
such hardship with and so many sleepless nights. That is
(38:26):
a joy and a depth that you can't reach if
you are just a parent for a day.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Or a babysitter for a day. Let's say that.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
And in our culture right now, I think the world
is trying to preach that if you keep hopping from
one honeymoon phase to another and just getting the dopamine
hit of an instant gratification, that I think that is
just instant happiness.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
That's not joy.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
So if you start structuring your life to really like
invest time into something, I think you're going to be
surprised the immense not happiness but joy.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
You feel all the difference, some of the difference. I
love the happiness and joy thing. And I know you
talk about it like butterflies when you meet him and yay,
and then after three years you know everyone gives the
side eye. So it is what's the difference there for you.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I think happiness is a momentary, fleeting, feeling emotion. I
think joy is felt in your soul and joy comes
with pain. And I say that in the sense of
like even in our marriage, at our on our wedding day,
I had happiness because I was like, oh.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
This is so exciting. I'm so giddy. I love this guy.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
But after ten years of marriage, we've gone through heartbreak
and hard arguments and times where we've disappointed each other.
But the amount of joy in my soul and my
being that I feel when I look at that man
is greater than anything I felt on.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Our wedding day.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
But it's because of time and pain and the investment
of it that compounds over time.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
That's first of all. That's a beautiful statement, and I
think some people might like sometimes when there are arguments
and bad moments in relationships where if you're in one,
you're going to have those. That's life. Sometimes that's all
people start seeing through that lens and then the next
thing comes and you go, well, there it goes again,
(40:27):
and then all of the sudden, before you know it,
you guys are not you guys, but whoever's listening. It's
like parallel paths that kind of start peeling off in
opposite directions. How did you make sure or ensure that
your marriage stayed the course in the middle even though
you had all these potholes, like all marriages do.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
It's actually something we took a lot of time to
write about, and it's how we try to approach life.
It's a gift I think we were given in athletics,
which is back in gymnastics. If I was faced with
a challenge, an injury, something I couldn't overcome, the yips,
whatever it was, I would take that. I would look
(41:12):
at that challenge and say, let's go find every tool
we can find to help me overcome it. That's coaches, sports, psychiatrists, dietitians.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Do I need to take time off?
Speaker 3 (41:27):
And I would approach that challenge from every angle and say,
how can I fix it? I think when it comes
to relationships and marriage and parenting and things that are
just happening in our daily life, we're operating as a
culture in a way that says, if it's hard, it
(41:47):
must not be right, instead of going back to athletics
and saying, oh, here's a challenge, how can I fix it?
And so my husband and I, I think, because we're
both athletes, have a very shared perspective on this of
if we hit a road bump, which we do all
the time, it's like, what can we do to fix it?
(42:08):
Who do we need to go find in the counseling world,
What mentors should we bring in what should we change
in our routine? What should we change about ourselves? But
it's always this active idea of how can we better it?
And so in each chapter we write about all the
different factors and angles to attack a problem, whether it's
your environment or your belief, for your faith or your mentorships.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
How can you attack a problem?
Speaker 3 (42:34):
And I think it's just it's just going against the
cultural norm, but it works for us.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Why we have such a fruitful marriage?
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Now, how do you you know you've changed since obviously Beijing.
You've probably evolved a hundred times over. Your husband's probably
evolved one hundred times over. I'm sure you guys have
to reintroduce yourselves. Hi, I'm Sean. I don't like Applebee's anymore.
I used to love it or whatever it is. You know, however,
you know, but you always like that, but you always
(43:06):
How do you keep evolving? Because you can have a
relationship where you're understanding, but you're different, he's different. How
do you keep you know, keep reintroducing yourself if that's
the right word.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
We learned a little trick from He's a counselor. His
name's John Deloney, and he's a friend of ours. But
he taught us this trick years ago of in a
very basic way. He said, never stop dating your spouse,
and he means it in the sense of never stop
asking questions because things always change, and he asks his spouse,
(43:40):
and his spouse asks him all the time for an
updated resume, basically like what's your current favorite color.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Because that can change? Yeah, what's your favorite food?
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Right now? Who's your best friend? And I think if
we constantly approach our marriage like dating like we did
when we were dating, it's with so much curiosity as
to where are you right now? And I've seen it
as my husband we go through phases of life where
he's stressed or entranced to something new or like it's
(44:15):
constantly different and I'm constantly learning about him. And I
think a lot of times people will get it wrong
when they think that the marriage, like getting married, is
a finish line and now you just get to coast,
when I think it's actually a starting line and it's
a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Oh beautiful. So you know, there are a lot of
little kids who I'm sure come up to you, which
is I'm sure I can just imagine when you walk
down like, oh, Sean tell me, what what? What's something
that you would want? These little kids, the young girls
who are coming up now, many of whom are wrapped
up in social media, wrapped up in what do they
(44:51):
think they want? You know there it is performative often
how they're living now, whether they're you know, an athlete
or somebody or not. What would you say to those
kids who are probably needing joy and not really finding it?
Speaker 3 (45:10):
I would probably say what I say to my daughter
now and my kids, which is and this is like
my personal belief, but it's that I think I would
say God has placed hidden treasures in every one of
our hearts, and all of our treasures are different, like
my treasures are different than from my daughters, from my son,
(45:31):
my other son. But it's the adventure of life to
try to find them, and if you get lucky enough
to find even one, you need to do everything in
your power to protect it. And I say that because
I had a conversation with my daughter once where she
was like.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
What if I think she was.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Talking about gymnastics, but she's like, what if I don't
do gymnastics? And I was like, that's mommy's treasure that
doesn't have to be yours. You will find a treasure
and it will light you up and it should be
different than everyone else's.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
But the hardship of life is the world will try
to will try to take.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Your treasure from you, or say it's not worth value,
or say it's not a good enough title, and it's
your challenge in life to protect it. So I would
I would tell kids that just go on your adventure
and try to find it, and if you can, you
have to protect it with everything you've got.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
By the way, you didn't just tell kids, you just
told grown ups, because I think that's I think there
are plenty of grown ups who are on there, walking
along this path and it may be filled with potholes
and kind of dusty and maybe not realizing that there's
actually a path. It's just over this way. It's lush
and green and full and has all of the things
that they're way there that they want. But this one's
(46:52):
easy because they've been on it and they don't know
how to get off it. And this is where I've been.
Sounds like you've done a great job of navigating your life, Sean.
You were delight by the way. Can I just say,
I mean, I know I've interviewed you before, but not
like this, not like this. This is so good. Please
grab this book. It's called The Courage to Commit, Embracing
the Radical Power, sticking with something. Sean. Wow. I mean, girl,
(47:17):
I love the new you. All right, thank you, thank you?
All right, Sean, have a good one. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
I mean, as I just said to Sean, like I've
spoken to her before but never liked that. I mean,
I knew that she was a deep thinker, and I
liked what she said about how a lot of people
are very shallow, you know, not going wide. Going deep
is really what she's describing, and she spent her life
going deep and trying to find ways to make everything
(47:48):
better in her relationships with her kids. I was, I'm
so turned on, Like I am, I'm just on fire
for what Sean Johnson East is serving up. She reminded
me that like other chapters in life, are possible, and
they're full of love and joy. I mean, imagine, if
you hit your peek at sixteen, at least in one profession,
(48:11):
then what And she just proved and you can see
it in her eyes if you're watching the podcast, and
you can hear it in her voice, she's full of joy,
she's in a beautiful chapter in her life, and she's growing,
she's deepening her understanding, her spirituality, her life, all those things.
It was beautiful. My cup's full, man, my cup is full.
(48:34):
So anyway, let me just close. This is a quote
I like to close with, like a quote or a poem.
And there was something about this that struck me. And
it's a simple quote and it says, she was never
quite ready, but she was brave, and the universe listens
to brave. The universe listens to brave. So for all
of us as we are going through transitions in life,
(48:56):
we don't always have to be ready. We just have
to be She was never quite ready, but she was brave,
and the universe listens to brave. That's by Rebecca Ray.
Thanks you guys for listening.
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