"We're Gonna Dance" (w/ Lady Gaga) (RE-RELEASE)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Look may oh, I see you my ow and look
over there is that culture. Yes, lost culture ding dum
lost culturistas calling. It's tough to be speechless on a
day when you have to record a podcast because the
art form requires you talk.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
It feels unfair, like I don't want to be at
work right now because I'm very much like transcending existence,
like physical space right It's all it's all really kind
of led up to.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Honestly, bo, maybe this has to be the serious fantasy
of the series.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
This is the last episode of Last Culture. Thank you
all so much for the not enjoining us.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
All these years. It had to end this way. I
will always remember us this way. I always remember us
this way.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
And you started off the show saying speechless too, you're
let's we have to say you're rattling them off. Third,
let's see we nailed we nailed it, we nailed it.
This is why don't you say you feel I mean,
this is one of the most important people to me,
one of the most I said this at the Radio

(01:06):
City show for us and L fifty, my favorite artst.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
In the world.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
I left my body. Well we'll talk about this. I
left my body because you be said high and then
you turn around and go wait cheers on stage.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Hearing that you guys watched here together was a huge
moment for me, even.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah for everybody, but I mean, we're we're just so
happy she's here.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
The album Mayhem might be out already, Oh it's out,
depending on when this comes out. So you have to
have grace, everybody, because we've listened to the album one
and a half times. We were brought to a secure
location where we were basically told, Okay, we're going to
listen to this and if we want to go back,
we listen to parts. It was a bunker.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
It was like where they keep all the designated survivors
in case of like fallout.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
We're the may have designated. But it is perfect. We
were ecstatic listening to it, and as you all know
at this point, it's brilliant. We think it's our guest
best work, which is saying something and hang a lot.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
She's a fourteen time Grammy winner, Academy Award winner, Army
Award winner, so many more accolades on top of that. Everyone,
please welcome into your ears. Lady.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
I am so so happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
I have the joy of our lives.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
I know it's the joy of mine.

Speaker 4 (02:27):
I was so excited to see you both, and I
just want to say, also, congratulations to both of you.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
You are doing such amazing things.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
It's amazing to watch had an amazing year and I'm
just like really excited to be here. You're also wearing
a Joyan Era T shirt, killing.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Me had I feel like I've only ever like dry
cleaned this year because I want to preserve it.

Speaker 4 (02:49):
So I don't think I dry cleaned anything during You
still got the.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Buzz light on you. I know those are being sold
at auction day day you have to tell Gaga about
your Joanne tour experience.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Oh okay, so, oh no, you played Matt Life here. Yes,
it was pouring rain. I don't know if you remember.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
I love a rango.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
I love a rangehow too, so Diana Ross, I was, oh,
because I remember you said the show it's free production exactly.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
You don't pay for the rains.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
You don't pay for the rain now and the rain
kind of follows you because I feel like Mary the
Night it was the same thing too.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
For that, it was like, oh, yes, that was I was.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
I can't believe that I got away with that we
were exploding cars.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
You had a roof for the building production value.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
And it was raining and they were like, you know,
we have to stop production because it's raining.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
And the cameras and I said, roll the camera.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, we're gonna miss it.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
You had a Vivo interview. This is a throwback to Vivo,
and you were just in an amazing appa. You had
sunglasses on. You're telling this anecdote about Marry the Night,
and at one point you just pull your glasses down
and go, we got free rain.

Speaker 4 (03:58):
It's a camera because you know, when you're putting a
music video together, there's so many things you want to do,
I mean, and everything is, you know, adds to the budget,
and I'm trying to like weigh what thing is more
important than the other. And that wasn't actually supposed to
be a rain scene at all, but then it happened
and like rain on Fire come on.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
So much too much, like Universal Studios Aspen.

Speaker 4 (04:23):
Yes, it was exciting, and then naturally I thought it
would be a good idea to hang upside down from
the sun roof of the car.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
The transam.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
The transam.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, it was gorgeous trans am, Thank you. I was
sick as a dog that City Field show. What did
I say, met Life? I said, I met City Field.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
Okay, but I agreed to Met Life.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
We've also seen you there. Well.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
But you know, I when I play shows, like, I
get so tired on the road that like sometimes I
forget the venue for which tour of course, Yeah, you know,
I would.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Imagine it's like one of those schedules where it's like,
you don't want this to happen, but you could yell
out Barcelona and Brussels.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
No, we can't do that, nor that is not good.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
We've seen you, gosh, we've been lucky to see you
in multiple venues now because it's a city Field meant Life.
We saw one of the shows with Tony at Radio.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Radio City, the last show we were there.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
What you know, it's so funny.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
At the SNL fifty concert the other night, I was
nervous to do Dick in a Box, Yeah, because like
I feel like, you know, if you're a comedian, being
asked to do Who's on First?

Speaker 3 (05:25):
Is probably like really like you know so, and to me, Dick.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
In a Box is the classic of course, So I
was like, oh my god, why did I agree? To
do this, and then I was, you know, walking through
the theater, and I remembered that I had been the
last time i'd been there was with Tony, and I
was like, you know, Tony would have just said, don't
be nervous, or if you are nervous, it's because you care.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
And I do care, absolutely okay.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
But a comedian doing Who's On First is like you.
It's like it's like you singing Le'Veon Rose or something
on film. It's like, I feel like you've inhabited all
of these classics for your entire life. I feel like
you were playing rockmanonoff at four whatever the fuck? Like
have you been doing this your whole life?

Speaker 3 (06:04):
I have been.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
I have been, and it's it's but I love so
much being a part of entertainment, like in like the
truest sense, I don't mean anymore than the thrill of
the good old fashioned hard work with other actors, other musicians,
stage designers, costume makers, makeup artists, wig makers, the lighting

(06:26):
and like backstage at essen L fifty was insane.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
We were all like getting ready to go on and
then like you know.

Speaker 4 (06:33):
A human squid would walk by, Like then the B
fifty two s would be there and then you know,
someone would be getting their you know, wig thrown on,
and it was just I don't know. I think that
that's my favorite part of show business, right is the
show of it all, the show.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Of it all.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Because something about that concert, which we've talked to Kevin Mazer, who,
by the way, photographer.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yes, do you want to hear something? Yes, my mom's
boyfriend from high school. Can you believe?

Speaker 3 (06:58):
Oh that's some piping hot tea.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, I'm from Long Island. He took my mom to prom.
And every time I see him now, mad he comes
over like he's just he's he's he's the guy. He's
the guy.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
But y'all, readers, Katy's PEP is Finals, Kyle's Academy iSER
the like live event.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
I've known him for so long, But can I ask
your mom in his name?

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Katrina?

Speaker 3 (07:18):
I'm so, you know, I see him. I feel like
so I heard about Katrina.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
I love it. Katrina. She had an iconic high school name.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yes, sweet, I was checking with him on Sunday. I
was like, oh my god, Friday, Well, like, what was
that about? I go, you're you? You go to all
of these things. Kevin where does that rank among your nights?
And he was like, that is one of the top three.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
First, Yeah, it was one of.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
The greatest nights in entertainment.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
And I heard it took two years to plan, Yeah,
and I felt really emotional. I like couldn't figure out
exactly what I wanted to stay on stage. I ultimately
decided to shout out Mark Ronson in the Roots because
Mark and I wrote Shallow together and the Roots were
playing it with me and I love them so much.
And I was I almost said, like, and think you
to Lauren and SNL because like, thanks for giving me

(08:03):
a shot on the show years ago, because like SNL
also helps.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Break artists and it's a huge deal.

Speaker 4 (08:09):
I don't know if people I mean, I know that
people know this, but I don't know that they know
how much it means to the artist when we get
booked for the show. I mean, to this day, when
I got called to do double duty, double do double
duty in a couple of weeks, full panic tears. Oh yeah,
so so happy, so elated. I couldn't be more proud.

(08:30):
It was the thing that I wanted to do the
most to promote my record and.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
To just make people happy.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah, it's going to happen. We're recording this before SNL. Yes,
we're coming right off of the celebration of the fiftieth.
But I mean, when when they told me that they
woked to you for double Duty.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
You're going to be incredible, scream Ice Grummed. I just.

Speaker 4 (08:50):
I was so excited to me, Like I say to people,
I'm in the business of making people smile, and that
is one hundred percent how I feel about SNL.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
It's just that it is. It is a night.

Speaker 4 (09:02):
Devoted to making people laugh at home, and I'm all
about it.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
But you literally embodied and captured that. And the last
time you hosted, which was that like jazzy applause cover,
I still watch. It's like a pitch perfect. It is
everything the monologue should be.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
That's the tone for the show. It introduces, not that
you needed introduction, especially at that time or now, but
it's like that was the perfect way to build confidence
for the audience that the show was going to be great.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
It was like such a privilege to do that.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
And I'm a theater kid from New York, so doing
the SNL monologue is a big ada.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
It is a huge deal.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
And you know, I just don't. I don't know that
I ever imagined that I would end up doing that.
I think I had a lot more confidence that I would,
you know, just be a songwriter, singer, producer for as
long as possible. But I didn't know that I would
get embraced in that way. And it's and that's what's
cool about, you know, hosting and doing musical guests too.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
Is being the host the monologue.

Speaker 4 (09:59):
The monologue is so from being an actor in the skips, absolutely,
and then that's also separate from being the artist on
stage as a musical guest. So it's like I get
to kind of do all the things that I like.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, I'm just thinking about how like you talk about
what an amazing moment that is as an artist to
be asked to do that show. And even in Starsborn,
it's almost like an emotional moment in the film when
Ali is told you're doing SNL. It's like that and
getting a Grammy nomination are both moments for that character
in that movie. Did anything from that experience influence the

(10:30):
decision to do Shallow on SNL fifty Because you have
so many songs you could have done, but you chose shallow.

Speaker 4 (10:36):
Well, first of all, one of the reasons that that
was included in A Star Is Born is because a
lot of A Star Is Born was inspired by my
real life, and I worked really really close with Bradley
and Eric on making sure that, like the story of
these two musicians felt real. And so that kind of
feeling around SNL and around a Grammy is that's just

(10:56):
like how it actually felt.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Truly important to you. And so that's and.

Speaker 4 (11:01):
Shallow to me is the song I wish I had
done on SNL. And when Andy and I started talking
about doing Dick in a Box, he came to me
and he said, I had this idea that we started
off and you start with Shallow, and I started and
it's like.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
Doesn't sound good, and then you say, you know, and
we did the whole thing.

Speaker 4 (11:16):
And when I watched the rehearsal, I was like, oh, like,
but now maybe they kind of they might want to hear.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
Because we started and it doesn't go.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
So I thought I thought it would be a chance
to do that and also to kind of put some
of my best work forward on a show that deserves
your best work, you know what I mean. Like to me,
when I see artists perform on SNL like we all
try to put our best foot forward, and so yeah,
I just I wanted it to be like a heartwarming moment,
hopefully for people at home too. I mean, I do

(11:51):
lack lots of different things, you know. I'm also into
the dark arts and the poetry of pop music, and
Shallow is very different than a lot of the music
I've in my career. But it's an important song to
me because it helped me to connect with people that
otherwise maybe didn't know if they could connect with someone
like me, Like maybe they they didn't relate to me
as much, or maybe they didn't know someone like me

(12:13):
in high school. So you know, Shallow is an important
song to me for that reason, and it just felt
like the right one to do.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
I remember the chromatica ball like that, which was such
a party, but we went with like fifteen of our friends,
and when you started Shallow, we all were like checking
in with each other, like this is really happening, Like
we're hearing Shallow. It is like a high point of culture.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Sixty thousand people at met Life, A hush fell, you
know what I mean, Like you could hear a pin drop,
you know, It was just one of those sublime moments.
And I think I remember like looking up at the
crowd being like I was shooting a movie and Charlotte
I flew back for that show. I was like, I'm
not missing God, No, I never like it was just
a culmination of like that era which was like kind

(12:54):
of was a glorious era that got kind of messed
up by the pandemic, and like it just felt like
this victory lap in, this like culm a nation of
like what everybody wanted to celebrate together with you.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
Thank you. It was a really special tour to me.

Speaker 4 (13:08):
I hadn't seen my fans really on tour since I
had to stop the Joint World tour and I and
I was like really not well during that time, and
it totally broke my heart to have to cancel and
that that was the that was the second tour that
that happened on. So I was a little bit nervous

(13:29):
about going out for CHROMATICA. I was like, am I
going to be able to do it? And you know,
am I going to be in pain when I'm on stage?
What's it going to be like? And it was amazing.
I had the best time. Also, my amazing partner.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
Michael was with me.

Speaker 4 (13:43):
He came with me the entire tour. We were together
during the prep for the tour. We lived in Leeds
while we put the tour, which is like very funny
having a brutalists stage in the middle of it.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
That music that was incredible good.

Speaker 4 (13:55):
Thank you, but it was you know, it was special
and healing, and I think in a way it kind
of set me up for this next time.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, I gotta say, just hear you talk about being
in service of the idea of entertainment. I think it
means to me what I hear is that, Like for
a while, I always thought about you as like someone
who is perpetually being a student to the concept of fame.
But I think what it's very quickly become, and like

(14:25):
even sooner than I realized, was you are a student
of entertainment and it's not the same thing, obviously, you
know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
I mean I think you're right about earlier, earlier in
my career, I was a student of fame and I
was fascinated with it and it was a part of
my art and I studied it. I was like really
really fascinated with Andy Warhol, and I tried to sort
of take the spirit of Warhol into my pop shows,
like even like the choices of you know, the music
with the lighting and a you know, a piss yellow

(14:53):
wig that would have been one of you know, his
screen prints. Like it was all about this idea that
anyone and could become a star if they if they
studied how. But the thing that I didn't know what
would happen was my fans, Like I didn't know who
they would be.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
I didn't know how it would make me feel.

Speaker 4 (15:13):
I also did not anticipate, but I'm so glad that
I did hear the stories of people all over the world.
I mean I would stop outside my hotel rooms and
I would talk to fans. I would invite fans backstage
after the shows. I would play demos for fans years
before I released music, and like, what do you think
of this, let's talk about it. What's your home life like?

(15:34):
And they would tell me about their lives. And so
I've grown up. It's almost been two decades in the public.
It's definitely been two decades for me as a recording artist.
But I kind of grew up and I changed. I
was a student of fame. But I ultimately decided that
the reason I want to do this is to make

(15:55):
people happy with art. And then like now, I mean,
I don't know if my fans really know this about
me now, but I warm up my voice twice a day,
and I practice piano every day, and I am like
working harder than ever in the dance studio. So I like,
keep up my chops, yeah, because to me, that hard
work is what my fans deserve. And also it's to

(16:18):
me that's like the privilege of being an artist is
that you get to work on your craft. And I
want to be able to say that I'm getting better
at it, not that I've done it already, and that's that,
you know what.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
We have to talk though about your vocals on this
new album, like we we listened to it, like we said.
I turned to Bobby, I was like, how do you
do it?

Speaker 3 (16:40):
It is?

Speaker 1 (16:40):
It is so olympic what you do with your voice.
And I would imagine you said you're warming up twice
a day. I would imagine your the whole warm ups
are what like half hour long, so you're really in
the pocket on this. Like the rock vocals that are
not easy to do the passion with which you sing.
When you're recording and you're putting songs like these together,

(17:01):
do you go back and back and back vocally or
how can you do that?

Speaker 3 (17:06):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (17:06):
I actually poor poor Andrew and Circuit in the studio
at the Soofflstein when we were.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
Doing vocals, I would sometimes do.

Speaker 4 (17:16):
Like fifty takes wow, and they were very you know, supportive,
and it was fine. But the reason is because when
I'm writing music, I'm sometimes imagining someone.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
Else's singing it.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
Of course, yeah, because it helps me.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
To kind of embody the spirit of a superstar. Because
I know I didn't, like always feel very confident as
a kid, and that stayed with me my whole life.
So during the writing process, like when I wrote Born
This Way, I was actually thinking about when Houston Wow,
and so I love that you knew that, No, but
I so I was thinking always about different people. But

(17:53):
then when I when I get there to sing it,
I'm like, Okay, I could sing this in a lot
of different ways. How should I sing it? So Take one,
I do it one way. Take two, I do it
another way. By take eight, I've sunk into it differently.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
Take sixteen, I go I'm gonna try something completely different
scratch at all. And so I think what you are
hearing on this album is that I was actually pretty
pretty bossy actually in the studio about about getting the
best possible vocal and also pushing myself to do things
that I've never done on a record before. I don't

(18:27):
think I sound on this album like I sound on it.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
I know so many vocal discoveries on this and so
many This is crazy to say because you're always so
many different characters in your music which you're you're speaking to,
but so many more than ever, and new characters.

Speaker 4 (18:39):
That we're hearing yes, and which character is going to
tell that story?

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (18:43):
And why yes? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (18:46):
I mean I remember there was this very early early
interview of yours where it was for V magazine and
it was like you were in like Mario Testino made
you get all like tanned, and you know, it was
a very like Chestino look, and it was incredible. But
I think it was someone I woul think it was
John Norris, it fuse who was asking you about like

(19:07):
or you brought up faith no More? And I was like, Okay,
this is not what I expected Gaga to like love
and like zero in on this is like the real
musical taste that she has, and then it would shift
to like, oh, but then this bitch knows the Great
American song Book, like the Bag and then it's like
wait and then she also like she's like the classically

(19:28):
trained pianist and she like fucking knows like all of these.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
So I didn't want not mean to call you a bitch. No,
you said this, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
No, but it's like, wait, hold on, my soul is
on my body, this bitch knows, this bitch knows American.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yes, I do, thank you, period.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
And like, I just think the characters are not so
much characters as they are the knowledge and this and
being the student music of entertainment, like you embody all
of these things. And so I think with Mayhem, I
think with this album, it's like Bobby was saying that
this is probably the most authentically you album you've ever
put out. That makes me think, well, then there's something

(20:12):
to Gaga being an amalgamation of all these different things
and these genres and these studied detailed musical exercises, I guess,
but like that's who you are because I couldn't boil
you down to one thing, and I'm sure you couldn't either.

Speaker 4 (20:26):
No, I mean I am definitely all of these things,
and that that's what Mayhem is.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
It's a celebration of all of that.

Speaker 4 (20:34):
And you know it's so funny as you're talking about
this too, I'm like thinking about this moment where Michael
Michael was in the studio every day. Michael executive produced
the record with me, and there was at one point
I was like, really into this electro grunge sound like
on Perfect Celebrity.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
It's a.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
Were saying garbage.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
So I'm like, I'm like, oh, We're gonna make the
whole album life and I'm going to change everything and
he and he was like, no, you are not. You
can't do that because but he was right, because I
am all of the different genres, all of the different approaches,
all the different processes. That's why it ultimately is Mayhem

(21:13):
is because if you're stepping really far back, it like
doesn't make sense. But when you put it all together,
it's me and I appreciate you seeing that in me.
I feel like since the beginning of my career, there
was always some type of criticism coming from somewhere of
like but who are you? You know, and like what

(21:35):
is Lady Gaga? And can you explain it to me?
And what's your style? And you know, you know, what's
what genre?

Speaker 3 (21:41):
Really is? Should I what should I call you?

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Like?

Speaker 3 (21:44):
What's your what do you really like? You know?

Speaker 4 (21:47):
And I think that first of all, I was terrified
to make a pop record again, and I decided to
do it. And I felt very supported in doing it
by Michael, by my family, by you know, everyone around me.
But feeling like people think you're chaotic is there's something

(22:07):
There was a joy in that for a while, but
there was also like a pain in that too.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Was that what the fear was coming from?

Speaker 4 (22:12):
Yeah, well it's like, especially as a woman, people are
like you're you're chaos. Like it's kind of like part
of me is like, uh huh, you know, and then
the other part of me is like, but what what
do you mean by that?

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Right?

Speaker 4 (22:24):
And likes it's kind of like you're a mess, and
like you're a mess because I can't figure out how
to organize you and I don't know how to think
about you. And I think what I want my fans
to know is like that's other people's problem. That's not
your problem.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
You can be the whole you.

Speaker 4 (22:44):
And that was that was a part of this record,
and I felt I felt excited as a female producer too,
like just doing whatever I wanted when I wanted to
in the way that I heard it. And I'm so happy,
Like even before we started that you brought up Killer
because it's like, my.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
It's amazing. Thank you. No, you don't even know. We
heard it twice and we've been like grabbing onto that
in our brain, like this whole album. Let's talk about
the album like it's like face, melty brain, scratchy heart,
screamy pop dance with this theme of mortality throughout. Okay, Yes,

(23:24):
and I wanted to. I know you've said before, like
you listen to a horror you watch a horror movie
every night before you go to bed. I don't know
if you're in that zone now, but the theme of
death and like dancing in the face of it is
obviously all over this. What I've always wanted to ask you, though,
is how much are you laughing while you're creating? Like
how much is joy and humor and laughter a part

(23:45):
of your creative process when you're making music, all of it. Yeah,
it is.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
There's a lot of humor on Killa, especially funny record. Yes,
Ride a funny record. I'm like, not that confident. The
person that wrote that record is confident. But I would
say also though that it's like the process is a
little bit manic, because I also get really serious, and
I know I can be difficult to work with because like,

(24:10):
I'm a very warm hearted person, but when I'm like songwriting,
I get like, you want what you want. I'm like,
I'm trying to listen to what I'm hearing and get
it out as fast as possible. But then maybe I'll
you know, yeah, the lyric I'm a Kila and boy
You're going to die tonight and like right, and then
that's funny and then that comes out. But then I
get serious again because I'm trying to figure out if
the guitar lick is right, and I'm like, no, it's

(24:31):
not that when it's this windard again, like it's kind
of a Yes, the process is chaotic, and I'm not
also a very linear thinker. I'm very tangentile, and sometimes
if I can't get one part of the song right,
I will need to stay on it for three days,
like a bassline or a guitar riff, and then other

(24:53):
times I will move on from it and go I'll
go like no, no.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
Let's go to the pre chorus.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Now.

Speaker 4 (24:58):
You know, it's it's sort of it's very nonlinear process
and I love it and I love it and I'm
so like also appreciative that my partner, like he you know,
the first few years that we were together, I wasn't
in the studio, and when he saw me start to
make music, he was like, oh my god, I've like,

(25:19):
I've never seen you happier and when you're making music
and that and that was I felt very seen by that.
And I think why it is so important to me
is when you grow up in the public eye, as
you know, there's things that people grow to like about you,
but there's things that they don't know about you, Like
they don't know that you that's like maybe deep in
reflection at home working on something.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
They know the outward facing you.

Speaker 4 (25:43):
So it feels really nice to be seen by someone
for the thing that.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
The thing that you do alone that makes.

Speaker 4 (25:52):
You special, that's your gift, right like the thing the
world doesn't see.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah, I mean, I think you even alluded to this
in the Oscar acceptance, where you were just like this
is hard work. There are sacrifices that need to be
made to get to this point. Like the reason I'm
on the stage is because I worked so hard. And
that is the essential thing about you, Lady Gaga, is
that you're.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
You're I love being here, I love it.

Speaker 4 (26:22):
I love also community, So like being with you and
talking with you and bonding over music is like, this
is the thing I probably missed the most from my
time before I became famous. I did an interview downtown
last week, and I picked the location and I was like,

(26:43):
we got to go to this bar that I used
to write music at, and we did the interview there,
and I like cried during the interview talking about all
my friends.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
Down there and welcome to the Johnson's nice I went to.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
Like there was a lot of bars down there that
we went to, but that was just one of them.
And I used to go there during the day, like
I'd got like one o'clock and like order a you know, paps,
blue ribbon and a shot of whiskey and riding a napkin.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
But living around artists, being around uh writers, songwriters, comedians, photographers, actors, musicians,
go go dancers, club promoters. You know.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
We were all like, we were all like our own
little group and we supported each other. And it was
actually really hard to go to Hollywood and do what
I was doing there because it was just not like
New York at all, And I know you you know
about New York. And so this is actually hugely like

(27:47):
a deep, a deep joy for me to be here
because we get to I get to like do the
thing that made like it's part of who I am.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Right, it was like talking about it all.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
We'll talk about your current community, which is like what
circa gaesophl Stein, which, by the way, Killa. When I
see Killa fe drink Stein, I'm like, well, I think
I have an expectation with the song is did not?

Speaker 1 (28:14):
I know?

Speaker 4 (28:15):
Then he flipped the script on everyone. Yeah, thank you,
thank you. Kasofelstein is very very talented. He's very specific.
I won't give away any of his secrets of how
he works, but I loved working on that record with him,
and it's so funny. Every time we talk to each other,
we always go like, oh man, I love this song.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
This song.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
It's very special.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
It's an industrial funk song. Yeah, the only live instrument on.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
It is the good I go to ask electronics.

Speaker 4 (28:43):
That's right, that's right, It's it's just really it's so
different for me, and I think there's areas of mayhem
that are the tip of the iceberg of where I
might even go next, you know, Like that's that was
some of the joy of making the album, was going like,
oh no, I'm not done with this, right, you know,
now I have to take this further.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Talk about sequencing this one, because I feel like that
was its own process.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
It sequencing the album was. I mean, Michael was like
worried about me. He was like, are you okay? And
I said no, Like I just kept listening to the
songs and in every conceivable order, right, Because there's there's versions.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
It's it's you know, do you do it? But by bpm?

Speaker 4 (29:23):
That's like the most to me, the most obvious first
version is like for it to feel like one night
at a club, right, And then there's the other version
where it's like, okay, but do you do it? Based
on the story and like is there a story that
I'm telling her? Which there is? So I I did
kind of a mixture of both of those things, And
the album kind of starts out with like the Devil
on your shoulder whispering to you, like, would you like

(29:45):
to make some bad decisions tonight, because like I'll help you,
Like I can fix this feeling that you're haven't And
by the end of the album, you know you've gone
through joy, you've gone through partying, you've gone through anger.
I mean, perfect Celebrities may be the most angry song
I've ever made. Ye then Vanish into You is a
song about wanting to disappear into someone. It's it's a

(30:07):
happy love song, but it's also dark. We're happy just
to be alive. And then Killa keeps the party going,
but it's like that, it's that moment at the party
when you were like a little numbed.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
Out the end your the outros are incredible, Thank.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
You, thank you. I am a very big fan of
the outros too.

Speaker 4 (30:28):
We actually had a thought to release the outros like
two days before the album, just but I don't think
I'm going to do it.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, what's the hesitation?

Speaker 4 (30:37):
Yeah, just because I feel like when you hear them
as an actual outro, it's like then then it's an outro,
But if I give it, then it's a snippet.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
But then it's a snippet, and then it kind of
is decontextualized from the actual work.

Speaker 4 (30:48):
Yeah, I mean, Killa, you really experience that outro because
of the beginning, like it, I kind of need the beginning.
Cinderella has got to walk up the stairs before the glippery.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah. The other song that I feel like was like
we we listened to several times and the build on
this one is just amazing. But it's so different for
you we feel is how Bad do You Want Me?

Speaker 3 (31:11):
We love Oh my God, You're lessing?

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Put that on the album you did because it's like
throwback you for you because it's it's very pop. It
really very much.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
It's like a total hyper pop song.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
But I was like, I hear like a high school
girl singing this like you're You're how bad do you want?
Like yeah, like it, you know what I mean? Like
we can we can see and hear the character in this,
like tell us about that song.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
Okay, So very funny story is Michael and I started
that song at home, but I had I started it first,
and he heard me singing it and he walks in
from the kitchen and he goes, is that about me?
I was like no, And then he came on in
and we started to like finish it together. And you know,

(32:00):
that song embodies a feeling that I've had probably my
whole life, which is that I always felt archetyped as
the bad girl. And it's why the lyric is kind
of funny, you like my hair, my ripped up jeans,
because like that's like so stereotypical, Like the girl with
ripped jeans is bad, right, and so it's so kind
of silly and humorous. So but but I've always felt

(32:22):
this kind of like I don't know, shame that I'm
I've always been at war with this feeling that if
I am, you know, interested in someone that like they're
actually longing for a good girl, but they're stuck with me.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
And I'm who they really want.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
But like we're in this like three way relationship and
there there is no actual other good girl, but the
good girls like in their head and they're and they're
kind of comparing me the whole time.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
So yeah, exactly, Oh my god, you we love it.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
What I'm telling you. We've been like just texting it
to each other, like so you want me for real?

Speaker 4 (33:01):
Yeah, the good girl in your dreams is mad. You're
loving me? I know you wish that she was me?
How bad do you want me?

Speaker 1 (33:07):
So? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (33:08):
And I like it's so funny too, because it's a
fun pop song. But I cried when I read it,
like it was like.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
My favorite kind of song, emotional pop, Like I have
a have a.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
I have some voice recordings of it somewhere that I have,
like from the original that. Yeah, maybe I'll just drop
those one at some point.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
That's that's the teas.

Speaker 4 (33:25):
But I also was also not charge I should put
that on the record, and Michael was like, you have to, like,
your fans are going to love that song.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
What was the hesitation around that about?

Speaker 3 (33:33):
I just I don't know.

Speaker 4 (33:34):
Sometimes when things are really super pop, I get like,
I don't know, I get a weird reaction.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah, what do you think that comes from?

Speaker 4 (33:41):
I don't know. I felt this way about just Dance.
Thank God I didn't listen to myself.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, yeah, because.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
I was going to I was gonna ask is it
about the prior work? But I think there's something about
this current team around Mayhem, between Wanton Circuit and Paris.
It's like these are all people who understand what came
before but are facing and have a vision for the future.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
For yes, I mean Andrew.

Speaker 4 (34:04):
What was great about working with him is he also
plays a lot of different instruments, and I know how
to write on all those different instruments. So if I
if we were in the studio, I would just be like, okay,
like play the guitar this way, do the bassline this one.
Then we would do it over and over and we
would riff back and forth. Circuit is an amazing musician. Also,
he's also like the fastest producer programmer that I've ever

(34:27):
seen it ever. He's wildly fast. So he also does
amazing analog synth work. We had like every iconic analog
synth possible in the studio. Andrew also had a mechanic
there that was working on the synth to kind of
like bring out the low end in certain areas and
like sort of like tailor the instruments to be unique

(34:47):
for the album. And Gastoffelstein, I will share nothing, Okay.
The man is a mystery and I'm gonna feel that way.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
He shall remain well.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Yeah, also die with a smile at the end of
the the album, it's this beautiful moment of like, first
of all, the first line being I just woke up
from a dream really kind of works after what's happened,
And then it does feel like a beautiful cinematic like
credits role the Waltz too, which I love.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
I you know, as a personal choice, I really wanted
the mayhem to end.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Uh. That's beautiful, you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (35:23):
Like, because Blade of Grass is a beautiful song, but
you don't get the feeling that the mayhem is over with.
Blade of Grass is a song about saying I'm gonna
spend the rest of my life with you, but I
just want you to know that now that you've asked
me to spend the rest of my life with you,
all I can think about is how hard it was
to get here.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (35:42):
So I did make the decision that I wanted there
to be a message of hope on the record because
I and like, I don't I feel nervous about speaking
about mental health issues at this stage of my life.
I think only because I talked about them so much
for so many years, and I I'm so passionate about
mental health and people getting help.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
But I also like I like deal with.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
My own sort of nerves about people only talking about
me in that way, like I don't want to be
defined by that time in my life. But I will
say that like having personal mayhem and like struggling mentally,
that is a very particular kind of chaos that I

(36:26):
hope that people who do struggle like hear this record
and then know that there's peace at the end of
it and that it can get better, because it truly
got better for me and I just really wanted that
to be a part of it. And also in working
with Bruno, who like one hundred percent collaborated with me

(36:49):
like head to head, musician to musician, and I'm usually
the only woman in the room when I'm making music
and to be treated with that kind of respect really
meant a lot to me. And it felt it felt
like it felt like the only way to put a
period on the end of the album, if that makes sense.
Like like that, I and also that I'm sure you've

(37:11):
heard the phrase reheating your nachos, right, It's like I've
never heard that, and I was like, what is this?

Speaker 1 (37:16):
It's running.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
Yeah, But I have to say, like there's something beautiful
in it because I think being a female artist, there
was always pressure on me. What is she going to
do next? How is she going to reinvent herself? How
is she going to change? Well, you know, she's going
to do the same thing forever, and then I would
reinvent myself and I would change, and they'd be like,

(37:39):
we wish she was, like, you know, she used to
be right. And I think what I realized making this
album is there is a sound and a style and
a way of creating music that I did come up with,
and I'm owning it on this album and it's it's
to me.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
I did it in a new way.

Speaker 4 (37:58):
And I also took myself to musical places that have
never been to before.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
And I was a student of music.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
But I think it's okay for anyone to own their
own inventions and be like, this is me, and you know,
I'm the creator of me. And a lot of female
artists we know this that people say, well, that record
was successful because of this producer, that this thing was
successful because and it's not fair to women to do that.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
It's women are creators as well.

Speaker 4 (38:28):
We are the creators of our lives and it's our
vision and you know we weren't made.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
We made ourselves.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
I think out of all your albums, this one stands
as like a true artistic statement for you. It is
your your painting with every color on the palette. You know,
It's like, I don't think you should ever well, first
of all, I don't think you will ever be defined
by any of the mental health conversation. It's only been
helpful to people. You you have literally you say to

(39:00):
my life, I would listen to Marry the Night in
very dark times. I still do, Oh my god, Tuesday
night writing at at SNL. Sometimes I'll I'll hit that track.
I got to Marry the fucking Night because it's four
am and I got to I have a sketch.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
To finish, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (39:13):
I do like it's I completely understand this relationship you
have with the people. The way people talk about your
life and what you've gone through, it is only enriching
what the work is.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
Thank thank you, I thanks for sharing that. I'm so
sorry that you go through those times. I think it's
you know, it's like something I have to work through
because it really was true.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
That for a while. And I don't know if you
can relate to this anyway.

Speaker 4 (39:38):
But it's sometimes when you get to that place, talking
about it is the healthiest thing for you, Yes, and
like you have to get it out, and if you
don't get it out, you're just living in silence about it,
and it's like the secret that is making you feel
more sick. So yeah, I'm you know, I'm a work
in progress. It's like I'm just you know, I'm not

(39:59):
an authority on anything. Really, I just am a person
and I love making people happy and I hope that
people will put on mayhem, start to finish and just
have a good time because it's ultimately meant to be
a celebration of you. But I think I did make
it for those that feel like maybe they don't always

(40:21):
know how to make sense of themselves, and I'm saying,
like that's cool, it's okay, you don't have to make
perfect sense of it.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
That's what the sequencing is about. In the end, That's
probably why you landed on this order of songs, because
that's the statement that's right.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Well, we have the central question of our podcast that
we ask everybody that we're going to ask of you,
Lady Yaga, which is what was the culture that made
you say culture was for me. This can be anything
from a film you saw that moved you in a
certain direction, a song and artist, something environmental. If you
could think, I became something close to Lady Yaga, if

(41:04):
not full on Lady Gaga in this moment.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
I have a few different ones.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
I feel like we love that.

Speaker 4 (41:10):
I think the one that is the most important to
me is I had gay friends in high school. And
I didn't have a lot of friends in high school,
and I went to an all girls school, which means
that when school was over, I used to walk like
eight blocks away to the boys' school and they weren't
out yet. But we were friends and we would do
the musicals together and I found my people. And then

(41:31):
later in my career when I started performing out and
I had LGBTQ plus fans, I was like, Oh, this
is the community that loved me when I was a child,
and this is the community that I'm meant to be
a part of now. And so I don't think I
would be Lady Gaga without the queer community.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Wow, you're such an important friend in the life of
a gay person when you are that person, you know
what I mean? Like that, that's such a silly way
to seek with those words sequencing. But I'll just never
forget my safe spaces when I wasn't out, when I
was in high school, when I felt like I could
talk about my influences, talk about the music I wanted

(42:10):
to talk about, you know, like telling all the boys
in my school that I liked to Limp Biscuit and
all love to them. But I wanted to talk about
Christina Aguilera and then finding the girls and being like,
don't you love the last track? Obvious I'm the self
titled you know what I mean. Like, it's just like
being able to share a language and share a humor,
and you have grown into such a maximum version of

(42:34):
that and it was I mean, jumping around. We just
have to say, it was so beautiful, and thank you
so much for saying what you said on the Grammys.
So for speaking to our community and speaking to the
trans community people that need it the most.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
That was my absolute privilege.

Speaker 4 (42:49):
And I promised myself that if I want a Grammy
that night, I was going to say something that was
in support of something that is so so important, which
is to be protective and loving to a community that
is experiencing violence.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (43:05):
It's my privilege to be a part of this community
and it's the language that we speak to each other.
And it's also like, thank you for teaching me so
much about the world. I couldn't be the person that
I am without the stories of all of the people
that I've met and the authenticity and the realness. Like

(43:26):
I have so many gay friends that like just share
with me their truth and that's a real gift.

Speaker 3 (43:32):
Like how many people do you meet that don't do that?

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Right everybody?

Speaker 3 (43:36):
And it's like that can be also not a great
way to move through the world.

Speaker 4 (43:42):
So you know, to me, this is my privilege to
be a part of it, and I know I wouldn't
be the same. And you know, I think like Born
this Way for me was it's like easily my favorite
album that I that I ever created. And what's interesting
is the second and to the question that you asked me,

(44:02):
if I could think of another culture, it would be
that culture of friends on the Lower East Side, And
Born this Way was a mixture of the inspiration of
the queer community, my love of the queer community, as
well as like this like techno rock, electro rock, underground
New York metal, scene that I was a part of,

(44:23):
so you know, all of those things like that Blender
is like truly what makes me me and it still is.
And I think this is an important time for us
all to be reroll with each other and ask for
what we need from each other.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Well, something about that night where you want the Grammy
with Bruno That was so impawtful because I was just
watching at home kind of just because a couple of
hours gone by in the show already, and I was
just like, I guess no one's really addressing what's going
on in like a real important way, and you were.
You broke the seal on that, And then the immediate
response from the audience and from people at home was

(44:59):
thank god, something so grateful because I will always think
about the way you handled the rumors and the way
you even talked about with Anderson Cooper, which was like
would that be such a bad thing, Like the fact
that you were even talking about this recently where you're
like you had to decide whether or not you would
quote unquote fix the rumor, But how would that make
someone feel if they were trans And why would you

(45:21):
inject more shame into that situation? Because I think there
was some turning point in Lady Gaga as an artist
who was studying fame, because that's a moment where I
don't know, we experienced this such a smaller scale than
you obviously, but it's like, there's nothing more frustrating than
someone saying something about you that isn't true and you
don't have the opportunity to address it or you're not.
All you want to say is that's not true. But
for you to flip that on its head and be like,

(45:45):
if it were true, who fucking cares?

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Is huge.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:49):
Well, I think that was probably the most responsible I
ever felt for the words that were going to come
out of my mouth at that point. Like I really
kind of did understand that the way that I would
react to that would, I thought be meaningful. But to
be frank, I didn't think about it for very long. No,

(46:13):
But seriously, it was outrageous to me that it was
also kind of a weird thing, like, so, how do
you feel about these rumors? I'm like, like, what are
we talking? What are we talking about? These are people's lives,
These are people's real lives. And that's what makes me
so upset about it today is when I see when
I see people peering down at others and making it

(46:38):
making it like socially acceptable to peer down and to
say that the trans community should be treated this way
is wrong. It is wrong, It's violent. It is everything
I hate, it is everything.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
I should just go after the most vulnerable people. Yes,
that's why community is so important though, because had you
not been exposed to community and had you not like,
had this understanding of people's humanity, someone may have been
put in that situation as like a pop star that's
being rocketed to fame and like, you know, aggressively trying

(47:14):
to be defined by this thing that the media is
like you know inherently saying is like some negative thing.
But because you had that exposure to community and because
you knew the reality that these are people's lives, you
were able to be in that position and be so
gorgeous and responsible. And that's important.

Speaker 4 (47:32):
The blessing is when when I was accepted by the
queer community. That was the gift to me, because then
I get to learn, and I get to I get
to experience and have real relationships that change my insights
and sometimes you know, people ask, you know, how can
I do this better?

Speaker 3 (47:49):
Can you explain this to me, like.

Speaker 4 (47:51):
People want to learn more, and I, you know, I
always have the desire to say, like be friends with
more people in the per community, Like that's the best,
the best way to learn, to just be a part
of the world.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
And it's quite easy. We're all pretty friendly, that's right,
the best.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
I mean, you were you were, So you are such
an important part of that conception for people because I
think I had come out of the closet again when
Born this Way came out, because went to conversion therapy
obviously didn't well, did.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Not work out.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
I didn't know that, yeah, yeah, And so Mad had
come out in college. So we've known each other since college.
Mad had come out around the same time we were
both doing comedy. He was in the sketch group. I
was in the improv group. Born this Way came out
the same the single came out the same week as
this college comedy festival. We would drive from Nyutreet to
Skidmore and we were just blasting that song for forty
eight straight hours, being wasted just like in some like

(48:49):
toolshed and back, just like that is.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
And he felt emboldened to come out that weekend.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
That's really special. That's really really special.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
You're so important. It's a huge swath of people who
only want the best things for you and for each other.
And if there is community in this world, it is
fully embodied in that sector. But also those people need leadership,
and You've always been that leader, culturally, artistically, in so

(49:19):
many ways, You've always been that person.

Speaker 4 (49:21):
Continue I appreciate you saying that, but you know what,
I more than being a leader, I just want to
do my part, and like I really believe that, like
we can all do our small part, and then when
we all do our small part, it like makes a
big part. And I believe that we will continue to
show show people that are filled with hatred and ignorance

(49:45):
that they should be looking up to the queer community
and following and learning about love and learning about grace,
learning about kindness.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
I really believe that. And I'm not giving up.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
No no, no, no no, And we know and either
are away. And it's it's so interesting that the answer
that you gave to the question was almost like the
very simple, beautiful answer that felt like was coming out
in the results of the election and everything is people
were just saying one word community. Yeah, look around you

(50:17):
water the flowers, right, build those connections, maybe find new connections. Community,
that is really what it's all about, and exposure to
the humanity of everybody.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (50:29):
And I know that it feels important for me to
say too that yes I say these things publicly, but
like it's actually even more important to me that I
live them in my life, right, Like that that is
the work.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Yeah, the category is dnswer die. The only way forward
is to just is to be joyous and to celebrate
each other in that way, because like I think Abrica
Dabra is like my interpretation of it is it is
this duel between it's death or love.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
It's the only alternative.

Speaker 4 (51:01):
There's really only one option in that video, like really
like she she announces the category, but like you kind
of know, like, no, we're going to dance. Choice for me, Yeah,
we're gonna dance.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Speaking of dance, Okay, so we'll be at Coachella. I'm
going weekend one, but when I s to work, he's
going to go week in two. I think I may
go again. Is there. Because we're listening to the album,
We're like, oh my god, in the desert, this is
going to be insane.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
Could you drink some water.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Yes, So how long have you been thinking about that performance.

Speaker 4 (51:37):
All night every night since I said yes? And also,
you know, before then, I mean, I didn't really get
a chance to do Coachella the way I wanted to.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
Yeah, you know, it was great.

Speaker 4 (51:51):
It was actually great for A Star is Born, too,
because Coachella agreed to let us use the stage major
the movie. As you know, making movies and production, like
you know, places to film is a positive thing. It
was great for the film. Yeah, I had like three
days to get ready for it.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Oh my god, it's absurd.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
But for this I am just putting everything that I
have into it.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
And I'm really excited.

Speaker 4 (52:15):
I mean I do, but I don't want to give
anything away because I truly want it to be like big,
a big surprise.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
I feel like I have heard you say in recent
interviews that you have been moving in the direction of
something slightly more stripped down because there was a time
in your in your career where you know the set
pieces would be like unmanageably big, you know what I mean,
And now you are thinking in terms of sustainability and
in terms of what I do.

Speaker 4 (52:39):
Yeah, I do think a lot more now about like
not wasting and not overproducing things, because when I was younger,
I used to get like so nervous that we would
like run out of props, you know, or run out,
or costumes would get ruined, or something wouldn't work well,
so we would have a backup. But now, you know,
I have an archive with a lot of like costumes

(53:01):
from all my previous tours and TV shows, and so
now I try to reuse those and repurpose them. And
in the aber Kadabra video, we did some of that
as well as like the white cape that I'm wearing
wedding dresses, it was all vintage wedding dresses.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
That's cool.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
Yeah, so you know, I'm trying to Yeah, I'm changing.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
I don't think you need the overproduction obviously, which is
what you're saying. It's like people will just be fucking
gagged to see you in any kind of every month
stage picture. You know, well about the Radio Stity Show
with Tony Bennett's like we were with our friends studio
and we just the three of us kept saying, she
just always knows her stage picture.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (53:39):
But you know, I do, I do believe when it
comes to stage performance and this is probably has to
do more with me like loving theater so much too,
is that you can do a lot with like a
black box theater and a spotlight, and like it's how
it's lit, it's your pose. It's the way that you
say the first line. You know, more adornment and more

(54:02):
money doesn't necessarily mean better, certainly, you know, it's like
how you think about it and how you bring it.
I think simplicity is actually like very very powerful, but
that also is not indicative necessarily of what Coachella will be.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
So sure. I just brought that up as a maybe
you were talking on hot Ones actually about like performing
at the Slipper Room way back when, which is crazy
done shows there, and like I was just thinking to
myself when you were talking about that, some of my
most formative, memorable like theatrical experiences have been in rooms

(54:38):
with like seven or eight other people watching someone create fantasy.
That's right, when you shouldn't be able to, but yet
it is that it is like lighting choices, the way
things sound in rooms like that, that's right.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
It's the stage. Yeah, it's like the magic of the stage.
That because when you do things like.

Speaker 4 (54:57):
I mean, there are clubs where people perform right like
in the room, like on the floor right. But to me,
the context change is on a stage. You know, it's elevated,
and you know, like I'm going to see a show
and there's going to something's going to try to move me.
And I do find in New York actually at some
of those downtown clubs that like there is immense talent, yes,

(55:20):
immense talent, and it's so much fun and and I've
always like also been so in awe of the drag
shows in New York.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
It is un real.

Speaker 4 (55:31):
And I've been watching some of the recreations on top
of the video and it's just like it's I mean.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
I was jan Jan did it with Yeah the next
day after the no.

Speaker 4 (55:48):
But also like the leasing is perfect on the cour
the hat and I saw people making like the spiked
hat out of plastic and then hands brain painting it.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
Cranberry rand Arry, I.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Mean, when you came to Drag Race and did that
workshop with them, that was just taking it the extra mile.
And I think that telegraphed to everyone that it is
about the details. It is I mean like that that
is such a of course, it's about so much more
than that, but the details do matter. You were so
detailed in the way that you walk through with those queens.

Speaker 4 (56:18):
I mean, I loved being a part of drag race.
That was so much fun and also a privilege. I
loved it so much. I mean, I think that I
have like just the ultimate respect for drag as an
art form. I also think drag very often does it
so much better than we do it on red carpets, honestly,
Like I think it's just on another level.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Yeah, how much of what you do do you think
of as drag?

Speaker 3 (56:45):
I mean, that's interesting.

Speaker 4 (56:48):
I probably wouldn't use that word just because I do
feel like it's a very specific art form that I
don't like do. But there is to me also a
drag element in what I'm doing. But I don't think that,
you know, wigs and makeup and costumes always mean drag.
I think like it is a very beloved and specific

(57:09):
art form. And but not no, but certainly not no.
It's kind of like sometimes people will, you know, you know,
ask me that, and I just like it's hard to
say yes, because I would never want to like take
away from someone that's devoted their life to it.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
Sure you're coming from a place of respect from what
they do exactly.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
That's my sort of rationale. Whenever someone's like, what would
your drag me be, I'm like, I don't know, because
I are not. I've not thought that far because and
I honestly think it's because I love the form so
much that I'm like, I don't want to insert myself
in that without earning my chops, without.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
Like, well, if I was going to do it, I
would have to like step.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
It up in a right. So there you go to
speak on another art form. Because we went to NYU
here you did a semester at CAP twenty one. Yes,
so we had a bunch of friends in Cap twenty

(58:10):
one when we were there, and that was like legendary
that you had grace that studio for even a second.
Is there still a part of you that would do
musical theater and like a like a mainstream sense, like
would you go and do Broadway? And if so, is
there a role?

Speaker 3 (58:24):
I think so? Yes, I think I would love to
write a musical.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Well, of course I think that a new one.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
Yeah, a new one. Yeah, yeah, I think that.

Speaker 4 (58:33):
I mean that would give me the ultimate joy of
like crafting all the music. Yes, working with amazing writers
on developing the story in the script and then you
know the stage design and the costumes.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
Yeah, and maybe I'd be.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
In it too, but you know, just like the idea
of writing one that sounds really I mean that's I mean.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Come on the Cyndi lauper Bag.

Speaker 4 (58:55):
I mean, does all my albums basically want to be musical?

Speaker 1 (59:00):
You're in the pocket already, so why not?

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Okay, we're going to close things off with I don't
think so, honey. This is where we take one minute
each to rail against something.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
Trying to think of there's anything else I want to
ask you. Oh, I know, I know, I know, I
have one more thing. Okay, okay, So you you talk
about when you do films, your commitment to that and
like your I don't know if you have you described
yourself as method?

Speaker 4 (59:23):
Yes, yeah, probably that sounds like something I would say, yeah,
and that embarrassingly remembering, yes, nobody.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
I want to know.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
Because your performances are so brilliant. I mean, you would
start I saw Stars five times opening weekends you. I
love House of Gucci. I mean, like, I wonder have
you approached acting now in a way that you can
feel is is sustainable or how do you feel when
you are approaching a role now and in terms of

(59:51):
what you've learned and what you've done, Because you've done
such incredible stuff.

Speaker 4 (59:54):
I think, thank you. I think that I love making films. Yeah,
I love being an actor. It's a privilege working with
such amazing actors and actresses in like every film that
I've been a part of. I learned a lot working
with Joaquin actually, like it was a very, very enriching experience.
I would say, I don't know that it's acting. You're

(01:00:16):
really feeling it when you're doing it, and it's real.
So I would say the thing I've learned the most
is like to put yourself fully in the moment and
to really be in it, you know, as if it
was real life, and that it is a performance, but
that it's not pretend, right, you know, I was actually
working with It's really started. I was working with my

(01:00:39):
niece on something related to Wicked. She sings, and I
was talking to her about, you know, thinking of a
moment in her life where it made her want to
to cry because she felt so changed inside. And what
I want to say about acting is this, it's not

(01:01:01):
far from singing, you know that you you have to
go to a place where you're really truly connecting to
what you're saying. Yeah, and it's it's not just about
the words on their own, it's about like the human
being behind it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
But when you when you play characters that go through
so like such harrowing stuff. Yeah, yeah, do you think
that going forward? Like I don't know if you have
anything on the books or whatever, but would you ever
do because you love comedy so much? Like does the
lightness appeal to you in terms of that work?

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
It does? It actually does. Michael's always like, can you please.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Absolutely yourself?

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
Yes, I would love to do a more lighthearted film.
I would, but I I.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
You know, I love the dark stuff too.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Yes, me, Yeah that is Mayham.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Yeah, it's Mayhem.

Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
I'm like, I'm like a pretty soft person that adores intensity.
So I don't really know where that comes from. I
always thought it was funny when I was making this
album because like I would you know, like I'm at
home like making breakfast for me and Michael and then
go to the studio and I'm like kind of self
spoken and like just being myself, and then like the

(01:02:09):
music was so.

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
Hard and it doesn't really make a lot of sense.
But you know, I.

Speaker 4 (01:02:16):
Guess that's the way that I deal with myself. It's
like the way I deal with my anger. It's the
way that I deal with my intense feelings.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Yeah, got it. God, we just love you at all, Like, oh,
just anyway, I we this is amazing having you here.
But we're going to do our silly little segment now.
I don't think so, honey, And I guess I'll start
it out. I do have something last night I sort
of was like I had nervous energy, so I was like,

(01:02:43):
I want to take myself on a YouTube wormhole that
I've never experienced before. I want a new educational experience,
and I got one. I'm excited to learn. This is
Matt Rodgers. I don't think so many time starts. Now,
I don't think so, honey. People don't respect elephants. You
don't understand how my God located their community is. This
is a fact. Elephants can communicate from miles away with

(01:03:04):
each other without seeing each other. They speak, and it
is speaking at a decibel that is so low. Do
you understand? I don't think so, honey. You understand you
can't be heard by the human ear, but they are
always speaking. Elephants have processes they go through for their grief.
They honor their debt. They will walk in succession and grieve,

(01:03:26):
and there is different ways of communicating. They're in a
matriarchal society. People don't know that. And get this. It's
not just mom, it's mom and all her friends raising
a child community aunties. If the aunties, it's the friends.
They will mimic what it is to feed a child,
even if they're not feeding it, just to give the
child comfort. Elephants are unbelievable. They are not just gorgeous,

(01:03:50):
and think about their trunks. That is amazing. Can you
do something like that? I don't think so, honey. That's
one man. Dada get on my level when comes to you.
So at this point, I've never been so connected to
the animal world. And you know, sometimes I fear animals.
Yes you do, just the wild ones. But the elephants
are important. But these elephants. Have you ever really gotten

(01:04:11):
into elephant dead?

Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
Over that rant?

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
That was?

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
Have you been to Africa to see them? Yes? You're healthy?
Oh my god, no, thank you so much. I just
wanted to give them their shine because and I actually
almost came in here today. I you know, I changed
my outfitt six times Gaga and landed in a white polo,
but I was gonna wear a red sweatshirt with a
panda on it. Oh and I just because they're my

(01:04:38):
next target. I was like, I need to find out
what's happening with them. There's a lot. And by the way, elephants,
when they say they never forget, they really don't. And
that's why it's so important to keep them safe because
when they are attacked or they have a family member attacked,
the trauma lives in them forever. Oh my god, and
they remember it and they won't go places where they've
It is so sad, but it's but the knowledge will

(01:05:00):
embolden us to protect that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
Thank you for your service to the other. That was
so beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
I just care for them so much and they're so
tender and emotional. Absolutely yeah. Okay, So with that, bow
do you have an I don't think so, honey. Okay,
wonderful to hear. I love when that is true. This
is Bowen Yang's I don't think so, honey. It's times
was now. I don't think so honey hot ones.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
You made Lady Gaga cry and you're gonna give this
woman to bomb.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
I've had it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
I had the privilege quote unquote of tasting to bomb
and it is battery acid, rancid stuff. Just kidding, Sean Evans,
We love you, Love Everybody. Feed one of the funniest
things I've done personally. You were champ. It was it
did not feel right to make you suffer in that
way while you were trying to talk about the album,
while you were trying to talk about your career. I

(01:05:53):
can't we need to put respect on Lady Gaga's time
in her promotional bag.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
I guess she You can't.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Be making this woman chomp on plant based wings. I
think fifteen seconds to do it off camera? Just say, Sean,
how about this, say before we recorded, we had Lady
Gaga try these wings.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Five Second's not.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Gonna put the indignity of her sweating and crying and
you know, chugging down milk on film for you. That's
not for Some things are too precious and that's one
of them.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
And that's when Bonyang said, fuck your show, no the
format so that we can do no. But you were amazing.
You were incredible on it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
Oh my god, what was the.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
Process of what you you're still in You're still absorbing that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
I know, I can't. It's these are like this is amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:06:44):
No, yes, speaking from the heart, it's it's special.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
You've blown away by I don't think so, honey. It
is so funny. You're gonna be great. You're gonna be great.
It's not harder than hot Ones. Okay, I mean but
hod Ones. Was it a good experience?

Speaker 4 (01:07:02):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Yeah, I had kidding.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
It was spicy.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
It was spicy. But do you and you you do spicy?

Speaker 3 (01:07:08):
I do? I do do spicy?

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
Yeah, I mean what I thought was funny was that
I did like seven and they were sort of fine,
and then eight out of note, like what a sneak attack, though, like,
at least let me know at four and six totally
is going to get that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Have you seen the show?

Speaker 3 (01:07:24):
No, of course I had.

Speaker 4 (01:07:25):
Just like I don't know if i'd seen like, you know,
thirty episodes, but watching.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
From home, you're like, oh, like, I guess it's a
linear I thought it would be.

Speaker 4 (01:07:32):
I kept laughing at myself because I was like, it's
like not actually a contest, it's not a no, it's
not like, am I winning, but like, if you get to.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
The end, you win, and you will do win, you will.
I love that you totally forgot.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
You were so in the heat of the moment, literally
that you forgot to promote the album. You were like,
oh yeah, you were like, oh that was fun. What
am I here to do? That was amazing? That was
one of my favorite episodes. And I again purely ingested
that is one of the favorite, my favorite things I've
ever done.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
He's got to do it. Do it one day. You
got to do it. I'm manifesting it. It's going to happen.
But he really what we're doing, the verses we're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
We're doing verses Matt and are gonna do the one
where you face where that is a game of contest
where you face off against each other, but he's gonna win.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
Well, I think it's so sweet. Is that he mirrors you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Is that he'll drink if you drink, He eats the
wings the same the same time that you do.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
I think that's lovely.

Speaker 3 (01:08:17):
I mean he was really nice, so nice, I think
really nice.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
Yeah, he was so sweet, and I just I was
expecting more spicy until until and then until I was
praying for it to stop.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
You pray, yeah, absolutely, Well, anyway, I just had to
put take them to task, and it's it's now time
for years.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
If you'd like to do one, you're going to do it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
So afraid this is going to backfire.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
No it's not. I'm just saying, I don't think so honey.
Then the thing and then you just kind of let
it go, let it go. One minute goes by fast.
This is lady gagas. I don't think so honey that
sentence and her time starts now.

Speaker 4 (01:08:53):
Basically, I don't think so honey that you guys are
putting me on the spot to do this.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
I don't think so.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
I don't like to. I hate rant, I hate confronting
people good at it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
We're uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 (01:09:03):
O heay right now I'm shaking seriously.

Speaker 4 (01:09:06):
I like would love to just like go on stage
and sing and change my outfits and pick my wigs
and write songs and make albums and go on tours.

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
But I do not want to rant about anything. It
is so scary to me. I feel scared. I want
to cry.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
No, please, don't.

Speaker 4 (01:09:23):
I love you so much, but I don't think so
that you're putting me on this spot.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
I Ca'm not just gonna do whatever you say, whatever
you ask me to do it. When you tell me
to do things, it makes me want to cry. It
makes me sick.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
We shouldn't have done that. We shouldn't have done that.

Speaker 4 (01:09:35):
I love you so much, and also I don't think
so don't you ever put me on the spot ever again.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
But I love doing this ten seconds.

Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
Thank you so much for having me here.

Speaker 4 (01:09:43):
But please, please, please don't make me get angry about
anything in public.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
And that's one man, Lady.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
God, honestly, hot ones you should have gotten rid of
or hot sauce, lost coach, we should have done I mean,
we have to where the show's done. This is the
last episode ever. This is how can we beat this?

Speaker 3 (01:10:02):
Funny?

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
Said?

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
You have to ask? God? Got your did you break
in a sweat? I?

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
Yeah, you know what I like to plan. I know,
I'm stick a control freak. I like to plan everything.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
I like to know every they were told about. I
don't think what aut I know?

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
And I panicked then and now we're so sorry, but
you're okay at a real level.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
You crushed it. So there you go. You know, all
the best ad on things to honeys have been the
one that kind of drags us, dragged us. Yeah, truly,
the people who come after us tend to succeed. So
well done, Thank you, very well done.

Speaker 3 (01:10:42):
I think I got like my voice got very high
and loud.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
You're warmed up now, you know you haven't done it yet.
Even on days when you don't perform, you do your
warm up. Yes, yeah, that's fun.

Speaker 4 (01:10:52):
Right, yeah, it's it's grounding and then and like then
sometimes yeah, okay, I can't give too much away.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
I can't give too much away. I'm in like the
danger zone with Coachello, where like.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
It's going to start slipping sand totally because it's it's
getting closer.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
It's happening you you're seeing the visuals. We cannot fucking wait.

Speaker 3 (01:11:09):
It's going to be amazing. We're coming. Heay, we will
take care of you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
Oh no, no, I'm coming weekin too. He's coming, but
I will go again because I have to be there
with him to watch it. I'm not missing this for
the fucking world. So literally, what it was was we
had why I had tickets for the first weekend, and
he was like I'll just come Sunday and on the
od I'm working because I'm working on Saturday. Famously, on
the odds that she's performing on Sunday night, I'll just
come the Friday announcement. We love it. You're going to

(01:11:34):
kick off the weekend so incredibly well. But I was like, okay,
now I'll go back the second weekend so that I
get to go. Friend Mayhem is at March seventh. That's right,
two days after my birthday. By the way, this kicked
off Pisce season in the best w Oh yeah, it's
February nineteenth, Deep in the Fields. This is really really
good stuff. Yeah, thank you so much for coming on.

Speaker 4 (01:11:53):
Thank you so much for having me. I loved this
so much. I love you both so much. Thanks for
being so kind to me. And it was so such
a nice hang too, It was it really was. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:12:03):
I hope that we can do it again without microphones.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
Oh yeah, we'll get rid of these things. We love
that We do end every episode with a song killer Killer,
Are you gonna da tonight? Killer Killer? Killer Killer? Oh
my god, listen to me and bye. Love of Culture Reach.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
This is the production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players
in My Heart radio podcasts.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Executive
produced by Ana Hasnia and.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
Produced by Beck Ramos. Editing mixed by Doug Baby an
equal board and our music is by Henry Komerski

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