January 15, 2026 • 45 mins
A teenage girl. A married man. A gunshot at the front door that the entire nation became obsessed with. On this episode of Killer Thriller, we talk with executive producer Sheri Singer about I Am Mary Jo Buttafuoco, the film that finally lets the woman who survived one of the most infamous crimes tell her story in her own words.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today, we are talking about one of the most infamous
crimes that continues to capture the public's imagination, and that
is the shooting of Mary Joe Butafuco by an underage
girl who was having an affair with her husband. This
crime absolutely dominated the press. If you are unfamiliar with
this case, Mary Joe Butifuco, a stay at home mother
(00:23):
of two small kids, opened her front door and was
shot in the head at her home in Massa Peak
of New York by seventeen year old Amy Fisher, who
was having a salacious relationship with Mary Joe's husband, Joey Buttafuco.
Mary Joe sustained severe permanent injuries, including partial facial paralysis
(00:43):
and deafness in one ear, and she still to this
day has the bullet in her head. The case exploded nationally,
with the press dubbing Amy the Long Island Lolita, and
Joey denied the affair for years. Mary Joe stood by him,
a choice that made her a target of public ridicule.
I mean this family and Amy were on the cover
(01:04):
of every magazine and newspaper. There were three TV movies
made about the crime, and between one hundred and one
hundred and twenty five million people watched at least one
of them. Scandal media had become dominant in mainstream culture
at this time, and this story had everything obsession, stalking,
a shocking act of violence, and a controversial plea deal
(01:28):
that left Mary Joe stunned. Amy Roboc and TJ.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Holmes present Killer Thriller with your Host Alisa Donovan.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Today we are talking about Mary Joe Buttafuco and her story.
And first I'm going to take you back with my
producers here to nineteen ninety two when this all happened.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I think it's interesting right out the gate that we're
talking about the Mary Joe Budafuco story, because in nineteen
ninety two we all were calling it the.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Amy Fishy Fisher story.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
So I know we're going to talk today about the
Lifetime movie that's coming out. Tell I know you've seen it.
Tell us about it and why it's different from the
two or three versions we knew from the nineties.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Okay, So, first of all, it's pretty extraordinary. I have
to say. It's the first time that we're hearing Mary
Joe's story from her own mouth quite literally. Some of
the film is her speaking directly to camera about her story,
and then the other parts are re enactments with actors
(02:40):
that drive the narrative. And I mean, I was I
absolutely remember this case. I grew up thirty minutes from
where this happened, so I was living in Manhattan at
the time, but I grew up on Long Island right
by there, and it just dominated everything. You not get
away from this story.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
How did you feel about her Amy Fisher being nicknamed
the Long Island Lolita? What did that do to somebody
from Long Island?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Well, first of all, nobody is gonna care. But I'm
a huge Nabokov fan, so I loved the book Lolita,
and I felt like, how dare they use this terminology
in this regard? I mean, it's just despicable, is what
I felt. But at the time, I was so young,
I wasn't thinking about how she was being exploited in
(03:33):
the process while also having made these horrific decisions, obviously,
which are inexcusable.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Do you think that that's why this story, this crime
is still ever present in our memories because we are
her age and it just was flabbergasting that some seventeen
year old was dating this old man and then just
tried to attack kill his wife.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I mean, I don't know, if I think about it,
like the age, I was probably a couple of years
older than if it was nine ey, I was probably twenty,
but certainly close enough in age. I think to me,
I felt like I know these people's voices. I know
these accents. I can imagine that guy who runs the shop,
runs the autobody place. I can see this girl, I
(04:22):
can see her in that outfit. I can see the
things like I really went, oh my god, I know
these people. It was absolutely crazy. And the fact that
Mary joe you know this is what I think you
know looking back now is really upsetting and unbelievable. Is
(04:44):
that the story really became about Amy and Joey, and
no one was talking about the woman who was the
victim of this heinous crime. I mean, she opened the
front door of her house and opened the door to
Amy and thinks, here's this young girl who is not threatening,
and then the girl shoots her in the head. It's
completely crazy. One of the reasons for that.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Is that in the nineties, after this case blew up,
there were three different dramatizations of it. Who that stand
out to me the Drew Barrymore version and the Alisa
Milano version that aired on the same night on ABC
and CBS with very big stars. So even though you
(05:29):
could say Drew Barrymore is even a bigger star today,
at the time she was a very big stars. Lana
was coming off of Who's the Boss yep, very recognizable
actors taking over and be portraying Amy Fisher, and both
were from Amy's perspective, from her Amy Fisher story where
Mary Joe but Ifuko is really just sort of the victim,
(05:49):
and a small portion where the affair and relationship between
Joey and Amy was the fuckus y.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yes, I mean it was something like I believe it
was one hundred to one hundred and twenty five million
people watched one or the other of at least one
of those movies. I mean, that is an extraordinary amount
of people who watched something the very first time that
it was on. I mean, it captivated the entire country.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
You've now seen this Mary Joe Buttafuco story that we're
going to be talking about today. What is your takeaway
or what surprised you in watching this dramatization and sort
of documentary version. The others maybe uh misled us with well.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I think first and foremost, I was struck by just
how raw and open she was about her own mistakes
in the midst of something that no one could I mean,
she is was utterly dropped in to this. This is
not her fault write any of this, and she really
(07:05):
chose to be self reflective over the years and learning
about how she developed a pill addiction from her injuries,
but then also as sort of a coping mechanism to
deal with what was happening, which is entirely understandable. And
I think I really understood how her real goal in
(07:31):
life was to be a wife and a mother, like
a very pure goal she had, and it was decimated
by this man, really by her husband, And I think
this is the first time where you really see that
she is accountable for her own decisions, but you really
(07:53):
see how she is finally I think, making him accountable.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It's been thirty years and it's still a story that
captivates us and obviously is the driving force of her life. Yes, yeah,
I mean it's her.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I was also struck by how kind of sweet she seems,
like a very tender person and I don't think that
was she was ever portrayed as that somehow, I just so,
I feel like it's very revelatory, and I, like I said,
I hope she I hope she feels some you know,
(08:32):
if not closure, some some vindication, some healing, some you
know that she's had her voice heard.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
She never changed her name, she still married Joe Butafuco.
So when she tells this story, is she I'm married
Joe Bafuco.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yes, yes, which I do think is interesting because the
sun did change his name. She has two children, a
daughter and a son, and the son, from what I understand,
changed his life name because it's I mean, do you
know anyone else with that last name? I don't. I've
never heard of anyone else with that last name.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
It's interesting. In two thousand and six on entertainment tonight,
I think Amy and Mary Joe did an interview.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Together, yes, which you know thinking about that now, I don't.
I mean the girl tried to kill her. I mean,
that's one thing. There are a lot of things that
are sort of unclear still, like whether Joey pressed her
to do that or whether he even talked to her
about it. But what is unequivocal because she admits it
(09:42):
is she went there to kill her like that was
that was the intent.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
She's started just seven years for the crime.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Of fifteen sure, and she was released early mainly because
Mary Joe came and gave a statement on her behalf,
which I think is extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Now do they dig into that in this show Mary
Joe's ability to forgive.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yes, yes, yes, which is but you know in this
way where they show the complexity of that that, yes,
Mary Joe can see how this girl had a rough
upbringing she was a child. She can have some sympathy
(10:29):
for that, but it doesn't excuse her behavior.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
And yeah, initially Joey, but if you could denied the affair. Yes,
he later in court, Amy testifies against him, and he
does admit.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
He is a diabolical human being in my opinion, the
fact that he could first of all just lie straight
to his wife's face the police like everyone under the sun.
And then afterwards his lawyer said something to the effect of, oh,
(11:04):
this is truly who he is. He's a great family man.
So he pled guilty to this one count of statutory rape.
Like I don't he was almost like they were trying
to champion him as if he's such a great guy,
and then the neighborhood threw him a party when he
got out of prison for statutory rape.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
He was still at the time with Mary Joe I
believe he was still married. Two thousands, he was released
from jail and marry joe and Joey moved to California.
She filed for divorce from him in two thousand and three.
He was remarried in two thousand and five.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yet he also before while they were still married, he
was arrested for a solicitation while he was on probation.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
After he was released from prison.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
After who was released from prison?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
What do you think it is that makes this story
so captivating still that we just still are learning and
watching and this is a new version thirty years later.
What is it about this one?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I think, I think it's really sort of unbelievable still
and then you think, well, it happened, and this girl
is still I mean she I think part of it
is somehow these these people get to have a second
life by doing these kind of exploitative shows about themselves,
(12:36):
and that is so disturbing to me. So that's another
reason that I feel I feel really happy is the
wrong word, you know. I feel really good for Mary
Joe that she's able to have this platform and really
be forthright and raw and honest and truth about her
(13:00):
own story.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I think it's interesting that infamous is what these people are,
which is a lot of people don't know. And it
for me is becoming famous for something bad, but it
is still fame, and so many people thrive off of
(13:23):
being famous even if it is infamous.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Right, And this is something interesting that Mary Joe does
say in this movie that she never wanted to be famous.
She never wanted any attention like this. Like I said,
she wanted a simple life. This is a good person.
She was raised Catholic, very traditional, wanted to be a
wife and a mother, and she chose the wrong dude
(13:51):
for that. Okay, let's get into it with the executive producer,
Sherry Singer of the new Lifetime film. I am Mary
Joe Buttafuco. Welcome, Sherry, thank you for being here with
(14:16):
me today.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
I want to say just to start that I am
so incredibly glad that this woman finally gets her time
to take back her own story. We have been hearing
about this for years and I'm just I feel very
moved by the entire endeavor.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
So bravo, thank you very much. I was too, and
I didn't necessarily expect to be, you know, I just thought, well,
i'll care, you know, but it was beyond particularly once
I met her and I directed all the inserts of
her and just watching her, you know, he's kind of
(14:58):
amazing too.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
What happens is Mary Joe is sitting and she's quite
literally speaking to the camera telling her story, and then
it's intercut with narrative and actors and acting it. And
there is something incredibly powerful about that that you see
the nuance. It's almost as though you see her kind
(15:20):
of healing while she's speaking. It's kind of extraordinary.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
You know, when we filmed the wedding scene, she was
on the set. She came for a few days and
she cried. I mean it was it was super emotional.
Everybody on the set loved her immediately. I love this
so much for her, me too, me too. How can
(15:48):
you not?
Speaker 1 (15:49):
How can you not? Okay, So, let's so this case
became tabloid legend, I mean literally almost instantly. And how
did you approach dramatize the story that people think they know,
but really they mostly only know it through headlines and
caricatures of these people.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Well, we actually just touched on that a little bit.
It was meant to be. Lifetime has this sort of
I Am or I was franchised where a woman that
was famous or infamous years later reflects back on the
story that everybody thinks they knew and tells it and
(16:28):
you know, pretty much entirely from her point of view.
And that doesn't mean we didn't have other sources, but
this is the story that she wanted to tell. So
we felt all of us, you know, felt very responsible
for being true to that.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Right And how did she how did you come to
meet her? How did this The.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Project actually was somebody at Lifetime, an executive that I
work with frequently, who who I think they hooked up
through Instagram believe it or not.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I think, you know, I personally feel like that's how
we heal through anything, right. But she I was so
really moved by that, which I was not expecting necessarily,
because I feel like that there's a nuance in this,
you know, that complication of how they always made Amy
Fisher look like the victim, yes, and then at the
(17:27):
same time demonized her. So it's like all the women
in this story just got the worst end. Yeah, especially
married Joe, but especially married Joe yep, I mean beyond
everything else, you know, she's still got a bullet in
her head. It's unfaible. So well, let's yeah, let's talk
(17:48):
about the actual case a little bit. So how true
is the portrayal in the film of her dealing with
the issues of like Joey not being home or her
being alone with the kids, and him not growing up
and his denial of the affair, Because I felt like
those are the things that somehow no one ever talked about,
(18:08):
like they never he was just sort of excused for
this behavior and almost championed. You know, the moment when
they say she says that they threw a party for
him when he got out of jail serving time for
statutory rape.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I know it's I don't think that would happen today,
you know, because going back about thirty four years, thirty
five years now, so for reasons that you and I
and the audience have lived through during this time, you
know that wouldn't happen. But it did, and we had
(18:48):
to have multiple sources for you know, all of our scenes.
It was the writer did a tremendous amount of research,
spent a long time I'm interviewing Mary Joe, and would
go back to her, you know, when he was constructing things,
and we made sure I mean the actual the parts
(19:11):
that she isn't in. She still read the script at
a certain point, but she saw all the things that
she was going to say and had her own input
in that. And you know, I guess we've all decided
to believe her it's first hand, and I do, by
the way, believe it. In fact, I think it was
(19:33):
probably worse than you know, what we could portray. Yes,
I think it was a conservative view.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yes, as a viewer, at moments, I felt like, gosh,
she just was able to withstand so much but then
also be very transparent about how awful some of these
things were. And I just kept thinking, this is you know, generationally,
that is not normal. It's not something that you know,
(20:05):
we culturally have done in this country ever. And so
I feel like, and her being raised Catholic and all
of the sort of her own religious and cultural things,
that just said, you have to be a partner, that's
what you do you can't.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
That's a really central part of understanding why she stayed
for eleven years after the incident and why and her
family pressures, you know, from there from their religion, because
people say, oh a, why didn't Why did you so
(20:45):
not believe him? You know, and be why did you stay?
And we felt it was really important to tell to
answer that question for the audience because for those who
already knew this story, those are the biggest questions.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yes. Yes, And when you hear it and you see this,
it makes I mean, it's utterly understandable, you know, the
amount of I just can't imagine that you could ever
stand up to that at that time, under those circumstances
and wanting to be I thought it was so beautiful.
(21:20):
You know, we often do not champion and celebrate stay
at home moms, and it's the single most important job
there is, in my opinion, and oftentimes, you know, women
sort of they don't get appreciated enough for that. And
this seems like a woman who that's really what she
wanted to do. She wanted to be a wife and
(21:40):
a mother, yes, and it's such a pure, beautiful desire
and to have it so destroyed like, I just it's devastating.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Yeah, it really is, and that really is who she was.
And I think, you know, back then it was we
were also sort of struggling with men's rights and you know,
women's and women standing up and saying I can be
a mother and a wife, but some people just want
(22:11):
to do one or the other, you know. And it's
no different than than many many, many career women who
have deep careers deciding that not having kids is you know,
right for them. So I think it was. It's a
(22:31):
lot of in the hindsight looking at what was going
on in the country then, right right, as well as
this story.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yes, as well as the specifics for them. And that
also makes me think about her addiction to the pain
pills and the medications. You know, we didn't no one
was talking about addiction to opioids at that time, nobody
seven years seven years. So yeah, how much do you
think how much was that a part of her denial?
Did she talk?
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Well, I'm sure that that that was. It was all
of the all of the things you're bringing up, you know,
we were a part of it, and she didn't want
to believe it. She was told not to believe it.
By people in her life that mattered, and she had kids,
(23:23):
and you know it's I mean, I've been through it.
It's really hard to get a divorce, even when you
both want it. It's really hard, right, and even if
people are civil, right, you know so, And in those days,
you were told it's better to stay in an unhappy
marriage than to put your kids through a divorce. That
(23:45):
was the molt, you know, from the late eighties certainly
through the nineties, and and some of us never agreed
with that, but a lot of people did.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Yeah, so I think she's she's you know, iconic in
this way. You know that that the things that happened
to her happened at a time and a place that
they could right.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Right, Let's talk a little bit about the the the
actual shooting, to which I think, you know, we kind
(24:35):
of gloss over this, the specifics of she was standing
on her own doorstep of her own home, yes, with
being unafraid of looking at this little girl, and so
how how true to reality were those specifically the things
(24:55):
when they she goes and tries to sell her candy
bars under the guys's of doing that for school, And we.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Didn't make any of this up.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
That's all real.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah, yeah, we did. We took very little, if anything,
we took very We took almost no creative license because
we couldn't and and therefore, you know what you saw happened.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
You just see how young this person is, the Amy,
the choices she made in so naive and so wildly
dangerous by going to the door first, and so were
those things were real that she like stopped her and
tried to I mean, it's just crazy.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Those two people that she hired for the first one
who couldn't pull the trigger and then the second one
where she got the gun. I mean they testified, you know,
on the record.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
They really helped to prosecute they did.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Yes, you know, probably for a deal, you know that,
but that'll that's standard, you know, if you're going to
step up and tell the truth and you want you
want something in return, right right? No, they you know,
so they were very real people.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Right did she when in the in the movie they
show Mary Joe and she comes to and she identified
Amy in a in a photo that was that also really?
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Yes, happened. Yeah, we couldn't. We had very little creative license.
I mean you can the kind of creative license you
have is maybe a scene that really occurred, didn't happen
in the park we shot it in, or you know,
maybe the you know, the the photos we took for example,
when she remarried, you know, that was representative of what,
(26:52):
you know, what their life was like, because it was
you know, but those kinds of things, even with a
you know, with a based on fact docudrama, you can
have a little latitude for setting things, you know, maybe
in a different place because you're shooting a movie. Sure
you don't as opposed to a documentary. But even with documentaries,
(27:18):
now you know, they're recreating, right, you know, they're all
the reality shows and the docs have lots of recreation
in them, right, So we obviously had had to do that.
But I know, it's kind of hard to believe that
these things really happened.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It really is unbelievable, much of it.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
I mean, I have to tell you, I was around
and in the business producing and some of my friends
made those three Network movies, so I remember them very well,
and it's they really were you know, the fact that
they did the Amy Fisher story, you know what.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I it's it's stunning to me.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Think back on that and it's it's just so shocking.
But a lot of it was it was instantaneous, you know,
it happened. I mean, she was on a set. Mary
Joe was on a set six months after she was shot.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So those dates are real, That's what I was gathering.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Oh my gosh, they all had to be real.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I mean, that's they don't even they haven't even processed.
She can she's still in very early stages of her injuries.
I can't even imagine the confusion of that and the
And I really appreciated how she talked about in retrospect,
now how absurd all of that was that but you
(28:51):
but you what do you do all of the you know,
there's just a multitude that was so complicated what was happening,
and then just having to go with it. And I
really I really appreciated that and the complexity and Amy
being portrayed as the victim. But then Mary Joe's opinion
(29:13):
based on her own actual experiences, And did you feel
this from her? Did you talk about that at all?
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Yeah, Well, one of the things we talked about was
that obviously this is a woman who shot to kill her,
you know, and she didn't die, and it uprooted the
entire you know, her entire life obviously, and her kid's life.
But at a certain point, you know, she started leaning
(29:41):
into and you saw this, you know, this scene when
she comes out of rehab where she's telling her kids,
I have to forgive. And I think one of the
things that I admire the most about her is I
don't know if I could do that, you'd be perfectly honest.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I am telling you. I was asking myself that many
times watching this movie, like would I be capable? Like
I'd love to think that that one I would have
left immediately, which you know, I'm certain that wouldn't have
happened either. But you know, her strength is something else.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I agree, Yeah, and I still see it, you know,
I I saw it. And she also she's very, very sweet.
And the other thing was she was very I mean,
and she's a lot of other things too, you know,
but she wanted to do her best job, you know,
(30:39):
of telling the story from her point of view, and
I you know, the proof is in the fact that
she's very close still to her kids. You know, I
met her daughter. Yeah, and when we were shooting the inserts,
who was lovely and therapist now and and and she
(31:05):
made it a priority to give you know, yes, yes,
create that she had the opportunity to do that. And really,
I mean, Lifetime was the right home for this.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I mean, it really is a you know, we I
think about this a lot and talk about this a lot.
You know, the idea of turning pain into purpose and
all of that, and it seems so kind of trite
at this point we just say that as a term,
but there is so much methodical, deep work that actually
(31:40):
goes into being able to do that. And I've I
just I'm you know, I mean, she talks about she
uses the term having Stockholm syndrome even you know, because
this is also about he was an abusive man, yes, emotionally,
and it's really uh, that's a whole other part that
(32:01):
again nobody really talks about. It's it really is is
shocking how much things have you know, changed. So were
you with you know, this branding of the Long Island Lolita,
We all just like accepted that as oh okay, and
I'll let me read this article about like it just
is bananas when I think about it now. And that
(32:24):
obviously shifted some sympathy towards her, but also exploited her.
But how conscious were you guys of correcting that narrative?
Speaker 3 (32:33):
What we wanted. The best way to do it is,
I think the way it turned out, which is for
Mary Joe to say, you know, I, yes she did this,
you know, yes, you know it roomed a big part
of my life. Yes, it had a lot of impact
on my kids. Yes it broke up my marriage, but
(32:57):
in a certain sense, you know, there were she was
so young. I mean, that's all you really have to say.
She was seventeen years old, right, right? And you know,
and you know, I don't know what was in her
head because I haven't met her and I haven't talked
to her. I mean I've watched a lot of the
(33:20):
old footage and seen statements that she has made, but
I don't I couldn't speak for her, but I can
say that Mary that having married Joe, watch her come
to that conclusion and say it both as the character
and as the real Mary Joe was a priority for her,
(33:44):
for sure, it was.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, Yes, getting back to her daughter. Did her daughter
have any reactions on set?
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Was she there when you wasn't actually on the set
when we shot? She was because we shot you know,
in a distant location, and Jesse, her daughter has a
life in California and a therapy practice and other things,
(34:13):
so she couldn't make it. But and also frankly, it
can be very boring for somebody who's not Ayes. I
mean everybody thinks it's like I want to go to
a movie set.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah. I remember my dad coming to the set first time.
He called it. It's like watching the grass grow.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Oh yeah, I like watching paint dry.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
In Joey's sentencing, Amy Fisher spoken implied that Joey knew
she was planning to shoot Mary Joe and all these
Do you have any thoughts on that.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
I have no idea whether that was true or not. Yeah,
And I think, you know, the human in me would
like to believe that he didn't.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Right, the human in me would like to believe that also.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
So I have no idea. Yeah, I doubt it.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Actually, it's been such a long time since the crime occurred.
But what do you think is the hardest thing for
(35:24):
Mary Joe about making this film?
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Saying, you know, coming to grips with I think the
easiest thing was. And then I'll say what I think
the hardest thing was. I think the easiest thing for
her was that she felt like she had an opportunity
to really tell her story and with some distance. So
(35:50):
I think that part, I think the hardest part was.
I mean, she was very, very emotional, you know, she
it took her back through you know, all the things
right that happened or most and but I and I
think she I you know, when when we were shooting
(36:14):
her on camera part and we got to the end
and she started to cry, you know, she said, you
could take that out, you don't have to use that,
And I said, how can I not? You know, that's
how you felt. And I'm not going to you know,
erase that, you know, to plase, you know, yes, because
(36:38):
you think an audience might be at by it. Do
you know what.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Absolutely humanizes her on a level That end makes us
realize just how exploited and forgotten and pushed aside she
was in this whole, this whole situation, which is imaginable
when you think that she is the person who was
(37:02):
the victim of the Christ. She did nothing, She was
utterly innocent, and somehow the story has always become about
the other two.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Well, it's more tabloidy when it's when it's about the
other two that right, that is and certainly you know
the National Inquirer was a big deal then. Yes, I
really didn't have the Internet yet or social media.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
The National Inquirer I remember it, yep.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Me too. And you know I was working in the world,
so I I I don't know. I mean when it
actually happened, I was making family movies for Walt Disney Della,
So I wasn't in that world until a few years
(37:57):
later and when I actually started at Lifetime, and I
I just think that that that was the thing to
do then, and it was not. I mean, I can
think of a lot of sensational stories that happened to women,
(38:21):
you know that you could have blamed them for, right,
the burning.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Bed, Oh yes, indeedy Lorena Bobbitt, all of that. Yeah,
those things that were you know, we just sort of
didn't question the narrative that was being sold. And it's
really or And I was also so I'm gonna say
(38:47):
moved again, but I was by her by Mary Joe
talking about you know, the SNL sketches, all of the comedy,
the people turning it the.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Talk show to SNL. She talked about comedy Skitch that
comedy sketches.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Sorry, she didn't call out anyone specifically, yes, to be clear,
but the comedy. You know, I just can't imagine how
that felt.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
I can't either. I mean, I hate watching myself doing
a normal interview. You know, I can't imagine it either.
But and it was she was just very very open
about talking.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
About I do think there is as you said, you know,
the distance and perspective really is key in this.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
And also changing times, you know what I mean, not
just but it was a while ago, but that times
have changed.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Why do you think people are still so fascinated by
this case?
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Because I think it was it was sort of a
household name. I mean, people that that are younger than
I am, you know, vaguely remember it, and people that
lived in Long Island remember it.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
That's me. I grew up about thirty minutes from where
this happened, and I was living in Manhattan at the
time in college and auditioning, and so this was like
on every paper. And you know, my parents still lived
on Long Island at the time, so it was everywhere,
the local, the national. It just was absolutely everywhere and
(40:31):
so identifiable because that accent. I grew up with that accent.
It's so specific, just kind of all of it.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Yes, it was challenging casting people who could.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Who could do it right because it's not a New
York accent, it's a Long Island accent.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Yes, you really have to listen to it carefully. Yeah,
but yes, that's kind of an unferred There was almost
like a character. Long Island was almost like a character
in theory.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah, because Joey sort of epitomized that. Yes, and you
know that guy, that Italian Long Island guy who can
do whatever, and oh he's charming, you know, he just
sort of gets away with it. So what do you
hope that the millions of people who were obsessed with
this and will watch this film, what do you hope
(41:24):
that they will get out of it? Well?
Speaker 3 (41:25):
First, I hope they watch it and can't help it.
But secondly, I hope they get out of it the
things we're actually talking about, yes, which are how times
can change, how social mores and religious mores can change,
(41:48):
but can also really in any direction, really influence people's
opinions of things and the way they look at them.
And I think that I I just want her to
be heard authentically. You know as as herself. Yes, and
I think we you know, we worked really hard to
(42:12):
have the all the pieces that weren't actually her feel authentic.
And you know, we had three wonderful leads and and
I wasn't sure and they were hard to they were
going to be hard to find because of the accents
and the mannerisms and how many years the you know,
(42:33):
the story to a lot of these stories do not
cover that many years. You know, where you're changing here
and colors and the way you look and what's going
on in the world, and you know, so there was
a lot of production around doing.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
The performances were very, very strong everybody.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
I'm really proud of them. I really am so.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
After everything that Mary Joe has adored and been through.
What do you think I mean this this idea of closure,
which I always think.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Is a farce the somewhat anyway.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
You get some Yeah, like, what do you think it
looks like for her? And do you think that she
has gotten some healing from making this film?
Speaker 3 (43:22):
I think she did. I mean she I think because
she could let herself emotionally experience these things, you know,
and because of how she felt on the set, and
because of how she felt when she was, you know,
delivering the things she wanted to say camera. I think
(43:42):
she probably got some of that. And I think, you know,
there's this feeling if you feel totally misunderstood and you
get a chance to, in your own words, try to
set it straight. You know, that would feel liberating to
me in a certain way. She's also, like, you know,
(44:03):
very close to her daughter and her son, and she's
very present, you know, she was. I found her. I
wasn't sure right right what it was going to be like,
and I found her very very present and really thoughtful,
you know, about what was going on.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Oh I love I just love hearing that so much.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
You really, I mean, I wouldn't say it if I
didn't really believe it.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
So I am Mary Joe Budafuco will premiere on Saturday,
January seventeenth, at eight pm Eastern and Pacific on Lifetime.
Everyone must watch it.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
I'm glad you really like the movie, and I hope
a lot of people will watch.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I do too. I do too. Thank you so much, Sherry,
Thank you so much. Okay, I want to hear what
cases you all are interested in hearing about. What are
you watching that you want us to talk about what
actors or producers or directors do you want to hear.
Hit us up at our DMS at Killer Thriller Pod
on Instagram and TikTok and let us know. Make sure
(45:07):
to follow the pod on socials and subscribe to Amy
and TJ Presents wherever you listen to podcasts that will
wrap us up for today until next time.
Today, we are talking about one of the most infamous
crimes that continues to capture the public's imagination, and that
is the shooting of Mary Joe Butafuco by an underage
girl who was having an affair with her husband. This
crime absolutely dominated the press. If you are unfamiliar with
this case, Mary Joe Butifuco, a stay at home mother
(00:23):
of two small kids, opened her front door and was
shot in the head at her home in Massa Peak
of New York by seventeen year old Amy Fisher, who
was having a salacious relationship with Mary Joe's husband, Joey Buttafuco.
Mary Joe sustained severe permanent injuries, including partial facial paralysis
(00:43):
and deafness in one ear, and she still to this
day has the bullet in her head. The case exploded nationally,
with the press dubbing Amy the Long Island Lolita, and
Joey denied the affair for years. Mary Joe stood by him,
a choice that made her a target of public ridicule.
I mean this family and Amy were on the cover
(01:04):
of every magazine and newspaper. There were three TV movies
made about the crime, and between one hundred and one
hundred and twenty five million people watched at least one
of them. Scandal media had become dominant in mainstream culture
at this time, and this story had everything obsession, stalking,
a shocking act of violence, and a controversial plea deal
(01:28):
that left Mary Joe stunned. Amy Roboc and TJ.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Holmes present Killer Thriller with your Host Alisa Donovan.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Today we are talking about Mary Joe Buttafuco and her story.
And first I'm going to take you back with my
producers here to nineteen ninety two when this all happened.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I think it's interesting right out the gate that we're
talking about the Mary Joe Budafuco story, because in nineteen
ninety two we all were calling it the.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Amy Fishy Fisher story.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
So I know we're going to talk today about the
Lifetime movie that's coming out. Tell I know you've seen it.
Tell us about it and why it's different from the
two or three versions we knew from the nineties.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Okay, So, first of all, it's pretty extraordinary. I have
to say. It's the first time that we're hearing Mary
Joe's story from her own mouth quite literally. Some of
the film is her speaking directly to camera about her story,
and then the other parts are re enactments with actors
(02:40):
that drive the narrative. And I mean, I was I
absolutely remember this case. I grew up thirty minutes from
where this happened, so I was living in Manhattan at
the time, but I grew up on Long Island right
by there, and it just dominated everything. You not get
away from this story.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
How did you feel about her Amy Fisher being nicknamed
the Long Island Lolita? What did that do to somebody
from Long Island?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Well, first of all, nobody is gonna care. But I'm
a huge Nabokov fan, so I loved the book Lolita,
and I felt like, how dare they use this terminology
in this regard? I mean, it's just despicable, is what
I felt. But at the time, I was so young,
I wasn't thinking about how she was being exploited in
(03:33):
the process while also having made these horrific decisions, obviously,
which are inexcusable.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Do you think that that's why this story, this crime
is still ever present in our memories because we are
her age and it just was flabbergasting that some seventeen
year old was dating this old man and then just
tried to attack kill his wife.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I mean, I don't know, if I think about it,
like the age, I was probably a couple of years
older than if it was nine ey, I was probably twenty,
but certainly close enough in age. I think to me,
I felt like I know these people's voices. I know
these accents. I can imagine that guy who runs the shop,
runs the autobody place. I can see this girl, I
(04:22):
can see her in that outfit. I can see the
things like I really went, oh my god, I know
these people. It was absolutely crazy. And the fact that
Mary joe you know this is what I think you
know looking back now is really upsetting and unbelievable. Is
(04:44):
that the story really became about Amy and Joey, and
no one was talking about the woman who was the
victim of this heinous crime. I mean, she opened the
front door of her house and opened the door to
Amy and thinks, here's this young girl who is not threatening,
and then the girl shoots her in the head. It's
completely crazy. One of the reasons for that.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Is that in the nineties, after this case blew up,
there were three different dramatizations of it. Who that stand
out to me the Drew Barrymore version and the Alisa
Milano version that aired on the same night on ABC
and CBS with very big stars. So even though you
(05:29):
could say Drew Barrymore is even a bigger star today,
at the time she was a very big stars. Lana
was coming off of Who's the Boss yep, very recognizable
actors taking over and be portraying Amy Fisher, and both
were from Amy's perspective, from her Amy Fisher story where
Mary Joe but Ifuko is really just sort of the victim,
(05:49):
and a small portion where the affair and relationship between
Joey and Amy was the fuckus y.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yes, I mean it was something like I believe it
was one hundred to one hundred and twenty five million
people watched one or the other of at least one
of those movies. I mean, that is an extraordinary amount
of people who watched something the very first time that
it was on. I mean, it captivated the entire country.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
You've now seen this Mary Joe Buttafuco story that we're
going to be talking about today. What is your takeaway
or what surprised you in watching this dramatization and sort
of documentary version. The others maybe uh misled us with well.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I think first and foremost, I was struck by just
how raw and open she was about her own mistakes
in the midst of something that no one could I mean,
she is was utterly dropped in to this. This is
not her fault write any of this, and she really
(07:05):
chose to be self reflective over the years and learning
about how she developed a pill addiction from her injuries,
but then also as sort of a coping mechanism to
deal with what was happening, which is entirely understandable. And
I think I really understood how her real goal in
(07:31):
life was to be a wife and a mother, like
a very pure goal she had, and it was decimated
by this man, really by her husband, And I think
this is the first time where you really see that
she is accountable for her own decisions, but you really
(07:53):
see how she is finally I think, making him accountable.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It's been thirty years and it's still a story that
captivates us and obviously is the driving force of her life. Yes, yeah,
I mean it's her.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I was also struck by how kind of sweet she seems,
like a very tender person and I don't think that
was she was ever portrayed as that somehow, I just so,
I feel like it's very revelatory, and I, like I said,
I hope she I hope she feels some you know,
(08:32):
if not closure, some some vindication, some healing, some you
know that she's had her voice heard.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
She never changed her name, she still married Joe Butafuco.
So when she tells this story, is she I'm married
Joe Bafuco.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yes, yes, which I do think is interesting because the
sun did change his name. She has two children, a
daughter and a son, and the son, from what I understand,
changed his life name because it's I mean, do you
know anyone else with that last name? I don't. I've
never heard of anyone else with that last name.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
It's interesting. In two thousand and six on entertainment tonight,
I think Amy and Mary Joe did an interview.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Together, yes, which you know thinking about that now, I don't.
I mean the girl tried to kill her. I mean,
that's one thing. There are a lot of things that
are sort of unclear still, like whether Joey pressed her
to do that or whether he even talked to her
about it. But what is unequivocal because she admits it
(09:42):
is she went there to kill her like that was
that was the intent.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
She's started just seven years for the crime.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Of fifteen sure, and she was released early mainly because
Mary Joe came and gave a statement on her behalf,
which I think is extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Now do they dig into that in this show Mary
Joe's ability to forgive.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yes, yes, yes, which is but you know in this
way where they show the complexity of that that, yes,
Mary Joe can see how this girl had a rough
upbringing she was a child. She can have some sympathy
(10:29):
for that, but it doesn't excuse her behavior.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
And yeah, initially Joey, but if you could denied the affair. Yes,
he later in court, Amy testifies against him, and he
does admit.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
He is a diabolical human being in my opinion, the
fact that he could first of all just lie straight
to his wife's face the police like everyone under the sun.
And then afterwards his lawyer said something to the effect of, oh,
(11:04):
this is truly who he is. He's a great family man.
So he pled guilty to this one count of statutory rape.
Like I don't he was almost like they were trying
to champion him as if he's such a great guy,
and then the neighborhood threw him a party when he
got out of prison for statutory rape.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
He was still at the time with Mary Joe I
believe he was still married. Two thousands, he was released
from jail and marry joe and Joey moved to California.
She filed for divorce from him in two thousand and three.
He was remarried in two thousand and five.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yet he also before while they were still married, he
was arrested for a solicitation while he was on probation.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
After he was released from prison.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
After who was released from prison?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
What do you think it is that makes this story
so captivating still that we just still are learning and
watching and this is a new version thirty years later.
What is it about this one?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I think, I think it's really sort of unbelievable still
and then you think, well, it happened, and this girl
is still I mean she I think part of it
is somehow these these people get to have a second
life by doing these kind of exploitative shows about themselves,
(12:36):
and that is so disturbing to me. So that's another
reason that I feel I feel really happy is the
wrong word, you know. I feel really good for Mary
Joe that she's able to have this platform and really
be forthright and raw and honest and truth about her
(13:00):
own story.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I think it's interesting that infamous is what these people are,
which is a lot of people don't know. And it
for me is becoming famous for something bad, but it
is still fame, and so many people thrive off of
(13:23):
being famous even if it is infamous.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Right, And this is something interesting that Mary Joe does
say in this movie that she never wanted to be famous.
She never wanted any attention like this. Like I said,
she wanted a simple life. This is a good person.
She was raised Catholic, very traditional, wanted to be a
wife and a mother, and she chose the wrong dude
(13:51):
for that. Okay, let's get into it with the executive producer,
Sherry Singer of the new Lifetime film. I am Mary
Joe Buttafuco. Welcome, Sherry, thank you for being here with
(14:16):
me today.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
I want to say just to start that I am
so incredibly glad that this woman finally gets her time
to take back her own story. We have been hearing
about this for years and I'm just I feel very
moved by the entire endeavor.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
So bravo, thank you very much. I was too, and
I didn't necessarily expect to be, you know, I just thought, well,
i'll care, you know, but it was beyond particularly once
I met her and I directed all the inserts of
her and just watching her, you know, he's kind of
(14:58):
amazing too.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
What happens is Mary Joe is sitting and she's quite
literally speaking to the camera telling her story, and then
it's intercut with narrative and actors and acting it. And
there is something incredibly powerful about that that you see
the nuance. It's almost as though you see her kind
(15:20):
of healing while she's speaking. It's kind of extraordinary.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
You know, when we filmed the wedding scene, she was
on the set. She came for a few days and
she cried. I mean it was it was super emotional.
Everybody on the set loved her immediately. I love this
so much for her, me too, me too. How can
(15:48):
you not?
Speaker 1 (15:49):
How can you not? Okay, So, let's so this case
became tabloid legend, I mean literally almost instantly. And how
did you approach dramatize the story that people think they know,
but really they mostly only know it through headlines and
caricatures of these people.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Well, we actually just touched on that a little bit.
It was meant to be. Lifetime has this sort of
I Am or I was franchised where a woman that
was famous or infamous years later reflects back on the
story that everybody thinks they knew and tells it and
(16:28):
you know, pretty much entirely from her point of view.
And that doesn't mean we didn't have other sources, but
this is the story that she wanted to tell. So
we felt all of us, you know, felt very responsible
for being true to that.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Right And how did she how did you come to
meet her? How did this The.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Project actually was somebody at Lifetime, an executive that I
work with frequently, who who I think they hooked up
through Instagram believe it or not.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I think, you know, I personally feel like that's how
we heal through anything, right. But she I was so
really moved by that, which I was not expecting necessarily,
because I feel like that there's a nuance in this,
you know, that complication of how they always made Amy
Fisher look like the victim, yes, and then at the
(17:27):
same time demonized her. So it's like all the women
in this story just got the worst end. Yeah, especially
married Joe, but especially married Joe yep, I mean beyond
everything else, you know, she's still got a bullet in
her head. It's unfaible. So well, let's yeah, let's talk
(17:48):
about the actual case a little bit. So how true
is the portrayal in the film of her dealing with
the issues of like Joey not being home or her
being alone with the kids, and him not growing up
and his denial of the affair, Because I felt like
those are the things that somehow no one ever talked about,
(18:08):
like they never he was just sort of excused for
this behavior and almost championed. You know, the moment when
they say she says that they threw a party for
him when he got out of jail serving time for
statutory rape.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I know it's I don't think that would happen today,
you know, because going back about thirty four years, thirty
five years now, so for reasons that you and I
and the audience have lived through during this time, you
know that wouldn't happen. But it did, and we had
(18:48):
to have multiple sources for you know, all of our scenes.
It was the writer did a tremendous amount of research,
spent a long time I'm interviewing Mary Joe, and would
go back to her, you know, when he was constructing things,
and we made sure I mean the actual the parts
(19:11):
that she isn't in. She still read the script at
a certain point, but she saw all the things that
she was going to say and had her own input
in that. And you know, I guess we've all decided
to believe her it's first hand, and I do, by
the way, believe it. In fact, I think it was
(19:33):
probably worse than you know, what we could portray. Yes,
I think it was a conservative view.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yes, as a viewer, at moments, I felt like, gosh,
she just was able to withstand so much but then
also be very transparent about how awful some of these
things were. And I just kept thinking, this is you know, generationally,
that is not normal. It's not something that you know,
(20:05):
we culturally have done in this country ever. And so
I feel like, and her being raised Catholic and all
of the sort of her own religious and cultural things,
that just said, you have to be a partner, that's
what you do you can't.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
That's a really central part of understanding why she stayed
for eleven years after the incident and why and her
family pressures, you know, from there from their religion, because
people say, oh a, why didn't Why did you so
(20:45):
not believe him? You know, and be why did you stay?
And we felt it was really important to tell to
answer that question for the audience because for those who
already knew this story, those are the biggest questions.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yes. Yes, And when you hear it and you see this,
it makes I mean, it's utterly understandable, you know, the
amount of I just can't imagine that you could ever
stand up to that at that time, under those circumstances
and wanting to be I thought it was so beautiful.
(21:20):
You know, we often do not champion and celebrate stay
at home moms, and it's the single most important job
there is, in my opinion, and oftentimes, you know, women
sort of they don't get appreciated enough for that. And
this seems like a woman who that's really what she
wanted to do. She wanted to be a wife and
(21:40):
a mother, yes, and it's such a pure, beautiful desire
and to have it so destroyed like, I just it's devastating.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Yeah, it really is, and that really is who she was.
And I think, you know, back then it was we
were also sort of struggling with men's rights and you know,
women's and women standing up and saying I can be
a mother and a wife, but some people just want
(22:11):
to do one or the other, you know. And it's
no different than than many many, many career women who
have deep careers deciding that not having kids is you know,
right for them. So I think it was. It's a
(22:31):
lot of in the hindsight looking at what was going
on in the country then, right right, as well as
this story.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yes, as well as the specifics for them. And that
also makes me think about her addiction to the pain
pills and the medications. You know, we didn't no one
was talking about addiction to opioids at that time, nobody
seven years seven years. So yeah, how much do you
think how much was that a part of her denial?
Did she talk?
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Well, I'm sure that that that was. It was all
of the all of the things you're bringing up, you know,
we were a part of it, and she didn't want
to believe it. She was told not to believe it.
By people in her life that mattered, and she had kids,
(23:23):
and you know it's I mean, I've been through it.
It's really hard to get a divorce, even when you
both want it. It's really hard, right, and even if
people are civil, right, you know so, And in those days,
you were told it's better to stay in an unhappy
marriage than to put your kids through a divorce. That
(23:45):
was the molt, you know, from the late eighties certainly
through the nineties, and and some of us never agreed
with that, but a lot of people did.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Yeah, so I think she's she's you know, iconic in
this way. You know that that the things that happened
to her happened at a time and a place that
they could right.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Right, Let's talk a little bit about the the the
actual shooting, to which I think, you know, we kind
(24:35):
of gloss over this, the specifics of she was standing
on her own doorstep of her own home, yes, with
being unafraid of looking at this little girl, and so
how how true to reality were those specifically the things
(24:55):
when they she goes and tries to sell her candy
bars under the guys's of doing that for school, And we.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Didn't make any of this up.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
That's all real.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah, yeah, we did. We took very little, if anything,
we took very We took almost no creative license because
we couldn't and and therefore, you know what you saw happened.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
You just see how young this person is, the Amy,
the choices she made in so naive and so wildly
dangerous by going to the door first, and so were
those things were real that she like stopped her and
tried to I mean, it's just crazy.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Those two people that she hired for the first one
who couldn't pull the trigger and then the second one
where she got the gun. I mean they testified, you know,
on the record.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
They really helped to prosecute they did.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Yes, you know, probably for a deal, you know that,
but that'll that's standard, you know, if you're going to
step up and tell the truth and you want you
want something in return, right right? No, they you know,
so they were very real people.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Right did she when in the in the movie they
show Mary Joe and she comes to and she identified
Amy in a in a photo that was that also really?
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Yes, happened. Yeah, we couldn't. We had very little creative license.
I mean you can the kind of creative license you
have is maybe a scene that really occurred, didn't happen
in the park we shot it in, or you know,
maybe the you know, the the photos we took for example,
when she remarried, you know, that was representative of what,
(26:52):
you know, what their life was like, because it was
you know, but those kinds of things, even with a
you know, with a based on fact docudrama, you can
have a little latitude for setting things, you know, maybe
in a different place because you're shooting a movie. Sure
you don't as opposed to a documentary. But even with documentaries,
(27:18):
now you know, they're recreating, right, you know, they're all
the reality shows and the docs have lots of recreation
in them, right, So we obviously had had to do that.
But I know, it's kind of hard to believe that
these things really happened.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It really is unbelievable, much of it.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
I mean, I have to tell you, I was around
and in the business producing and some of my friends
made those three Network movies, so I remember them very well,
and it's they really were you know, the fact that
they did the Amy Fisher story, you know what.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I it's it's stunning to me.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Think back on that and it's it's just so shocking.
But a lot of it was it was instantaneous, you know,
it happened. I mean, she was on a set. Mary
Joe was on a set six months after she was shot.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So those dates are real, That's what I was gathering.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Oh my gosh, they all had to be real.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I mean, that's they don't even they haven't even processed.
She can she's still in very early stages of her injuries.
I can't even imagine the confusion of that and the
And I really appreciated how she talked about in retrospect,
now how absurd all of that was that but you
(28:51):
but you what do you do all of the you know,
there's just a multitude that was so complicated what was happening,
and then just having to go with it. And I
really I really appreciated that and the complexity and Amy
being portrayed as the victim. But then Mary Joe's opinion
(29:13):
based on her own actual experiences, And did you feel
this from her? Did you talk about that at all?
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Yeah, Well, one of the things we talked about was
that obviously this is a woman who shot to kill her,
you know, and she didn't die, and it uprooted the
entire you know, her entire life obviously, and her kid's life.
But at a certain point, you know, she started leaning
(29:41):
into and you saw this, you know, this scene when
she comes out of rehab where she's telling her kids,
I have to forgive. And I think one of the
things that I admire the most about her is I
don't know if I could do that, you'd be perfectly honest.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I am telling you. I was asking myself that many
times watching this movie, like would I be capable? Like
I'd love to think that that one I would have
left immediately, which you know, I'm certain that wouldn't have
happened either. But you know, her strength is something else.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I agree, Yeah, and I still see it, you know,
I I saw it. And she also she's very, very sweet.
And the other thing was she was very I mean,
and she's a lot of other things too, you know,
but she wanted to do her best job, you know,
(30:39):
of telling the story from her point of view, and
I you know, the proof is in the fact that
she's very close still to her kids. You know, I
met her daughter. Yeah, and when we were shooting the inserts,
who was lovely and therapist now and and and she
(31:05):
made it a priority to give you know, yes, yes,
create that she had the opportunity to do that. And really,
I mean, Lifetime was the right home for this.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I mean, it really is a you know, we I
think about this a lot and talk about this a lot.
You know, the idea of turning pain into purpose and
all of that, and it seems so kind of trite
at this point we just say that as a term,
but there is so much methodical, deep work that actually
(31:40):
goes into being able to do that. And I've I
just I'm you know, I mean, she talks about she
uses the term having Stockholm syndrome even you know, because
this is also about he was an abusive man, yes, emotionally,
and it's really uh, that's a whole other part that
(32:01):
again nobody really talks about. It's it really is is
shocking how much things have you know, changed. So were
you with you know, this branding of the Long Island Lolita,
We all just like accepted that as oh okay, and
I'll let me read this article about like it just
is bananas when I think about it now. And that
(32:24):
obviously shifted some sympathy towards her, but also exploited her.
But how conscious were you guys of correcting that narrative?
Speaker 3 (32:33):
What we wanted. The best way to do it is,
I think the way it turned out, which is for
Mary Joe to say, you know, I, yes she did this,
you know, yes, you know it roomed a big part
of my life. Yes, it had a lot of impact
on my kids. Yes it broke up my marriage, but
(32:57):
in a certain sense, you know, there were she was
so young. I mean, that's all you really have to say.
She was seventeen years old, right, right? And you know,
and you know, I don't know what was in her
head because I haven't met her and I haven't talked
to her. I mean I've watched a lot of the
(33:20):
old footage and seen statements that she has made, but
I don't I couldn't speak for her, but I can
say that Mary that having married Joe, watch her come
to that conclusion and say it both as the character
and as the real Mary Joe was a priority for her,
(33:44):
for sure, it was.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, Yes, getting back to her daughter. Did her daughter
have any reactions on set?
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Was she there when you wasn't actually on the set
when we shot? She was because we shot you know,
in a distant location, and Jesse, her daughter has a
life in California and a therapy practice and other things,
(34:13):
so she couldn't make it. But and also frankly, it
can be very boring for somebody who's not Ayes. I
mean everybody thinks it's like I want to go to
a movie set.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah. I remember my dad coming to the set first time.
He called it. It's like watching the grass grow.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Oh yeah, I like watching paint dry.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
In Joey's sentencing, Amy Fisher spoken implied that Joey knew
she was planning to shoot Mary Joe and all these
Do you have any thoughts on that.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
I have no idea whether that was true or not. Yeah,
And I think, you know, the human in me would
like to believe that he didn't.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Right, the human in me would like to believe that also.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
So I have no idea. Yeah, I doubt it.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Actually, it's been such a long time since the crime occurred.
But what do you think is the hardest thing for
(35:24):
Mary Joe about making this film?
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Saying, you know, coming to grips with I think the
easiest thing was. And then I'll say what I think
the hardest thing was. I think the easiest thing for
her was that she felt like she had an opportunity
to really tell her story and with some distance. So
(35:50):
I think that part, I think the hardest part was.
I mean, she was very, very emotional, you know, she
it took her back through you know, all the things
right that happened or most and but I and I
think she I you know, when when we were shooting
(36:14):
her on camera part and we got to the end
and she started to cry, you know, she said, you
could take that out, you don't have to use that,
And I said, how can I not? You know, that's
how you felt. And I'm not going to you know,
erase that, you know, to plase, you know, yes, because
(36:38):
you think an audience might be at by it. Do
you know what.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Absolutely humanizes her on a level That end makes us
realize just how exploited and forgotten and pushed aside she
was in this whole, this whole situation, which is imaginable
when you think that she is the person who was
(37:02):
the victim of the Christ. She did nothing, She was
utterly innocent, and somehow the story has always become about
the other two.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Well, it's more tabloidy when it's when it's about the
other two that right, that is and certainly you know
the National Inquirer was a big deal then. Yes, I
really didn't have the Internet yet or social media.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
The National Inquirer I remember it, yep.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Me too. And you know I was working in the world,
so I I I don't know. I mean when it
actually happened, I was making family movies for Walt Disney Della,
So I wasn't in that world until a few years
(37:57):
later and when I actually started at Lifetime, and I
I just think that that that was the thing to
do then, and it was not. I mean, I can
think of a lot of sensational stories that happened to women,
(38:21):
you know that you could have blamed them for, right,
the burning.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Bed, Oh yes, indeedy Lorena Bobbitt, all of that. Yeah,
those things that were you know, we just sort of
didn't question the narrative that was being sold. And it's
really or And I was also so I'm gonna say
(38:47):
moved again, but I was by her by Mary Joe
talking about you know, the SNL sketches, all of the comedy,
the people turning it the.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Talk show to SNL. She talked about comedy Skitch that
comedy sketches.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Sorry, she didn't call out anyone specifically, yes, to be clear,
but the comedy. You know, I just can't imagine how
that felt.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
I can't either. I mean, I hate watching myself doing
a normal interview. You know, I can't imagine it either.
But and it was she was just very very open
about talking.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
About I do think there is as you said, you know,
the distance and perspective really is key in this.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
And also changing times, you know what I mean, not
just but it was a while ago, but that times
have changed.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Why do you think people are still so fascinated by
this case?
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Because I think it was it was sort of a
household name. I mean, people that that are younger than
I am, you know, vaguely remember it, and people that
lived in Long Island remember it.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
That's me. I grew up about thirty minutes from where
this happened, and I was living in Manhattan at the
time in college and auditioning, and so this was like
on every paper. And you know, my parents still lived
on Long Island at the time, so it was everywhere,
the local, the national. It just was absolutely everywhere and
(40:31):
so identifiable because that accent. I grew up with that accent.
It's so specific, just kind of all of it.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Yes, it was challenging casting people who could.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Who could do it right because it's not a New
York accent, it's a Long Island accent.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Yes, you really have to listen to it carefully. Yeah,
but yes, that's kind of an unferred There was almost
like a character. Long Island was almost like a character
in theory.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah, because Joey sort of epitomized that. Yes, and you
know that guy, that Italian Long Island guy who can
do whatever, and oh he's charming, you know, he just
sort of gets away with it. So what do you
hope that the millions of people who were obsessed with
this and will watch this film, what do you hope
(41:24):
that they will get out of it? Well?
Speaker 3 (41:25):
First, I hope they watch it and can't help it.
But secondly, I hope they get out of it the
things we're actually talking about, yes, which are how times
can change, how social mores and religious mores can change,
(41:48):
but can also really in any direction, really influence people's
opinions of things and the way they look at them.
And I think that I I just want her to
be heard authentically. You know as as herself. Yes, and
I think we you know, we worked really hard to
(42:12):
have the all the pieces that weren't actually her feel authentic.
And you know, we had three wonderful leads and and
I wasn't sure and they were hard to they were
going to be hard to find because of the accents
and the mannerisms and how many years the you know,
(42:33):
the story to a lot of these stories do not
cover that many years. You know, where you're changing here
and colors and the way you look and what's going
on in the world, and you know, so there was
a lot of production around doing.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
The performances were very, very strong everybody.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
I'm really proud of them. I really am so.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
After everything that Mary Joe has adored and been through.
What do you think I mean this this idea of closure,
which I always think.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Is a farce the somewhat anyway.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
You get some Yeah, like, what do you think it
looks like for her? And do you think that she
has gotten some healing from making this film?
Speaker 3 (43:22):
I think she did. I mean she I think because
she could let herself emotionally experience these things, you know,
and because of how she felt on the set, and
because of how she felt when she was, you know,
delivering the things she wanted to say camera. I think
(43:42):
she probably got some of that. And I think, you know,
there's this feeling if you feel totally misunderstood and you
get a chance to, in your own words, try to
set it straight. You know, that would feel liberating to
me in a certain way. She's also, like, you know,
(44:03):
very close to her daughter and her son, and she's
very present, you know, she was. I found her. I
wasn't sure right right what it was going to be like,
and I found her very very present and really thoughtful,
you know, about what was going on.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Oh I love I just love hearing that so much.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
You really, I mean, I wouldn't say it if I
didn't really believe it.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
So I am Mary Joe Budafuco will premiere on Saturday,
January seventeenth, at eight pm Eastern and Pacific on Lifetime.
Everyone must watch it.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
I'm glad you really like the movie, and I hope
a lot of people will watch.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I do too. I do too. Thank you so much, Sherry,
Thank you so much. Okay, I want to hear what
cases you all are interested in hearing about. What are
you watching that you want us to talk about what
actors or producers or directors do you want to hear.
Hit us up at our DMS at Killer Thriller Pod
on Instagram and TikTok and let us know. Make sure
(45:07):
to follow the pod on socials and subscribe to Amy
and TJ Presents wherever you listen to podcasts that will
wrap us up for today until next time.
Popular Podcasts
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.
iHeartOlympics: The Latest
Listen to the latest news from the 2026 Winter Olympics.
Milan Cortina Winter Olympics
The 2026 Winter Olympics in Milan Cortina are here and have everyone talking. iHeartPodcasts is buzzing with content in honor of the XXV Winter Olympics We’re bringing you episodes from a variety of iHeartPodcast shows to help you keep up with the action. Follow Milan Cortina Winter Olympics so you don’t miss any coverage of the 2026 Winter Olympics, and if you like what you hear, be sure to follow each Podcast in the feed for more great content from iHeartPodcasts.