June 3, 2026 • 47 mins
What does it signify when Latino/Latinx artists perform on a global stage? And is representation and visibility ever enough? This episode digs into one performance that dominated cultural conversation this past spring: Colombian pop star, Karol G, was the first Latina to headline Coachella, but her set came with a mix of celebration and critique.
This week Diosa and Mala dig into the cost of visibility for Latino/Latinx artists. Do these artists owe us political activism? And what does it signify when they don't meet that need? Tune in to find out!
Sources:
Karol G Wants to Speak Out More About ICE, but People Warn Her Not To
Los Hermanos Flores used Coachella for Bukele propaganda
Controversy surrounds Mariachi Reyna de Los Ángeles after performing with Karol G at Coachella
Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/locatora_productions
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
O la la lo motes, I'm Deosa and I'm Mala.
Welcome to look at Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Today. We're talking about the very real cost of visibility,
and we're focusing on LATINX visibility, starting with gottle G
and Coachella.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
In the past year, Latino artists have performed on some
of the biggest stages across the United States. As we know,
Bad Bunny headlined the sixtieth Super Bowl and was the
first artist to perform an entirely Spanish language set. Then
gottle G made history as the first Latina artist to
headline at Coachella. These performances, of course, lead to public opinions, discourse,
(00:42):
and endless commentary.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Nothing is simple, and neither was Carol G's history making
performance at Coachella. So we're going to dig into the
weeds of the pros, the cons, the good, the bad,
what people loved about it, and what people didn't like
so much much about it. So we want to start
with her opening the performance itself. She walked onto the
stage and said, I'm Carolina Hiral Donavaro from Medin, Colombia,
(01:11):
and she opened with Latina Forever. She brought out an
all female Mariacci Band and Becky g joined her both weekends,
so it was like full throttle Latina. We're here, we're repping,
we are embodying our Latini dad, and we are doing
it boldly and loudly and proudly.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
And you know, her most recent album, Tropico Quita, really
paid homage to all the different sounds of Latin America,
going as far back as the beat of mambo, right,
and she really came up as regaton like pap regaton
as well. And so for her to situate herself I
think in this like larger history of sound in Latin
(01:55):
America with Tropico Queta, but then also pay homage to
the artists that came before her on that stage, like
we see Neande, she did a cover to Lorie Stefan's Mithira,
like really really considering I think, in my opinion, like
the artists that came before her in order for her
(02:16):
to be on that stage.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Absolutely, And she said on stage, I am the first
Latino woman to headline at Coachella, and that means that
it has taken twenty seven years of Coachella history for
a Latina to headline, which is pretty major.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
And during the performance. She did say, this is for
my Latinos that have been struggling in this country lately.
We stand for them, I stand for my Latino community.
I'm very proud because this brings out the best in US, unity, resilience,
and a strong spirit. We do this because we want
everyone to feel welcome to our culture. So I want
everyone to feel proud of where you come from. Don't
(02:56):
feel fear, feel pride.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, And I think this performance definitely comes on the
heels of this larger conversation about the responsibility of artists,
especially artists of color, Latino artists, LATINX artists who make
you know, global music that has now taken a global stage, right,
(03:19):
but have really been supported and platformed by their Latino community,
Like do they have a responsibility to speak up and
speak out when policies and politics are plaguing and harming
said community, right, So it's definitely part of that larger conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah. And gottle G was recently on the cover of
Playboy and she was interviewed by Paula Ramos and the
question was asked, like, are you going to say ice out?
Is that going to be a statement? And gottle G
was sort of in her own and you guys can
go and read her interview and Playboy, but Gottlegia was
sort of saying like, I don't know what impact that's
(04:01):
going to have me saying Ice out. And at Coachella,
she didn't specifically say Ice out. She made it about
empowerment for Latinos. She made it about feeling pride and
not fear, definitely alluding to the immigration crisis without specifically
naming Ice or specifically like positioning herself as an anti
(04:24):
Ice figure or activist. So I think that she definitely
was very careful in her wording and her messaging. She
likely has had a lot of conversations with her team.
I'm sure Coachella is huge and it was her moment,
but it was also a moment for her fans, who
are predominantly Latinos. So she said it without saying it,
(04:45):
which is a really interesting choice. I'm not surprised, though.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
It's not surprising in the least because gottal Gee, I
think has historically shown that she kind of teeters on
this a political line. She's very much, like you mentioned,
focusing on the empowerment. I think she very much from
what I've seen and this is you know, we can
get into the weeds of like the racial politics, right,
but like she's very much talking about like women empowerment
(05:11):
women first. It's kind of like this girl boss type
of feminism. Yeah, she's not radical, she's not you know,
she has been breaking barriers in so many ways, but
I think to expect something different I think is also
I don't know, like she's shown us that she's not
the most politically active or vocal. And we put a
(05:31):
lot of expectations on artists. And I'm not saying we
shouldn't ask our ask artists to speak out or to
support our community in tangible ways, but I think she
in particular has had a track record of not being
the most like politically active or vocal.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, And I think the same can be said for
like a lot of pop stars. She's a pop star,
and a lot of pop stars they're touring and they're
making money and that's really the focus. And if you
are too political and you are too anti administration, that's
going to impact your touring and it's going to impact
your bottom line absolutely, you know. And so somebody doesn't
(06:11):
get to the point where they're headlining at Coachella without
playing politics and without playing with the with the big
boys and like accepting their money. I mean, it's just
kind of how it goes, I think to that.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
To that point, though, there's you have, you know, not
in the same way, but you have someone like Bad
Bunny who has had a history of like speaking out
and being very political, especially when it comes to corruption
in Puerto Rico. And you know, so it's like you
have another example of a different type of artist also
(06:46):
selling out stadiums, also headlining, but.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Does it in his own way and is political also.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
So I think that that's where that push and pool
comes from the community. You have these two artists that
are politically very different and still selling out stadiums, but
one is more politically inclined than the other.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah. Yeah, And it does remind me of the conversation
that we had around the Super Bowl and Ed Bunny,
because like, well, to perform the Super Bowl at all,
I mean, how anti establishment can you be exactly? You know,
I mean it's the Super Bowl, there's a federal presence,
there was increased ice presence in the area. There was
a lot of criticism as well, absolutely about Bad Bunny
(07:26):
performing the Super Bowl at all. And then of course,
like Coachella is in the Coachella Valley, you know, and
we can talk about displacement and indigeneity and immigrants and
farm workers and the whole thing. So I think that
it's like accepting the job in and of itself complicates
one's politics. No matter what one says or demonstrates on
(07:47):
the stage, it's still like the container, you know, and
you can fill the container with whatever you want, but
it's still like it's a super Bowl sized container. It's
a Coachella size container.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Absolutely, And the container is capitalism.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
The container is capitalism.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
It's billionaires donating to conservative groups, to anti LGBT groups,
to the administration and their campaigns, you know, when they
were campaigning, and so yes, the container is already corrupted.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, And so this being said, I think that there
was a lot of celebration of gottle Gee at Coachella.
I think that people were very happy with her performance. Overall.
I think it seemed I wasn't there, but it seemed
like good vibes, it seemed like fun. It seemed like
the Latinas who were in attendance were happy. But after
the first weekend, a different conversation started to emerge. So
(08:43):
mariacci Rena de Los Angeles and all women group that
was founded in nineteen ninety four turned out to have
some complicated politics attached to its founder, and this began
a lot of online chatter and debate questions and kind
of put the group under a microscope.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yes, yeah, So NBC reporter Amber Frias interviewed Crystal Edanane,
a member of the group and also a daughter of
the founder, Jose Ernandez. They asked her during this filmed
interview about her political affiliation, the group's political affiliation, and
it was shut down pretty quickly by someone on their team,
(09:23):
and so, you know, folks of course continued to dig,
and so what they find is that the founder's wife
that I said on this is the president of the
Conservative Lincoln Club, which is one of the largest conservative
groups in Orange County, and she also led the organization's
efforts to recall Governor Gavin Newsom, and so in this
(09:46):
in a video also circulated online that said on this
is heard saying the organization invites conservative leaders like Florida
Governor Ron de Sante's and Tucker Carlson. So by default,
the the Mariacci group was implicated, you know, and associated
with conservatism and extreme right wing values and also supporting
(10:13):
Donald Trump and this administration.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
But of course the official statement of the group indicates
that the founder and director of Maria Chirina has not
made public statements endorsing any political candidate. And I think
that's really common, right, going back to artists not putting
their politics out there, artists not making direct political statements,
artists not indicating how they're voting, who they're voting for,
(10:38):
or their party affiliation. And so I think that that
really the director of Mariachirina is in a way falling
in line with gottle g And they are the same
in that regard, like.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
By not saying something, they're saying something.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
They are saying something.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, don't go anywhere, look, amotives will be right back.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I think artists and those who are performing and accepting
ticket sales, they need to allow the performance to remain
focused on the music, right and not letting the politics
become part of the show. And so I think that's
like what they're trying to do.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, and it was, you know, this very predictable at
this point, this very predictable cycle ensued right online, folks.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Were there was outrage at the Mariacci group.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
How could they celebrate the culture when they allegedly support
the administration? And then the anger was directed at gott
O g and her team.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
You know, did she know? Should she have known?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Whose responsibility is it to know the political affiliations of
every one involved in this large scale performance?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And so again it goes I think deeper into the
responsibility that is put on Latino artists. Right when they're
on these very large stages, they become responsible for an
entire community. And it's not necessarily fair to put so much,
I think, on artists and expect them to represent such
(12:15):
a vastly diverse community that's clearly very politically different as well,
But it happens.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah. I also a hot take if cattle Gee, just
because she's the artist in question and the headliner in question,
if she could only choose from Mariachi's who are outwardly liberal,
she would have very few to choose from. I think
I don't necessarily know that the Mariachi community is known
(12:45):
for being leftists or being like politically left leaning. I
think that Mariaci in and of itself is coming from
like like a machista sort of tradition, and even this
is an all female group, but I don't don't necessarily
know that. I think of Mariaci and like liberation politics
or liberation music.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
And within this musical tradition there's also the progressive groups
that form within them, right like as a pushback, as
resistance to the cultural norms, the traditions of it all,
like a group like Mariacci Atgoiti's, which then sends a
different message which she could do. She could have done,
but again, I think she has shown us that she's
(13:30):
an artist that's about women empowerment her focus.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
I'm not saying that I personally think.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
That gottle G is bisexual, Okay, but that's a conversation
for a different day.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Is a conversation.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
She is not someone that's like publicly come out, and
I don't expect her to. But again, because she I think,
as someone that has positioned herself as like the girl
boss type of feminist, she's going to pick an all
women Mariacci group versus like a queer Mariacci group, Oh
for sure, you know what I mean, Like she's going
to pick optics, She's going to pick the all women one.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
In my opinion, yes, absolutely, because that is the feminism
is the politic there.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Her type of feminism, her brand of feminism is going
to be like the women power.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, and so it's you know, Latina forever. It's a
Latina feminist approach to her show and to her activism.
It's not necessarily like, oh, we are people of color.
I don't think that's her politic either, and I don't
think she identifies.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
That way, no, no, no no, and.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
So yeah, and when we use that like very specific
lens and terminology, like yeah, there's gonna be issues and
there's gonna be complications with it. Absolutely, And it's not
unlike like white women girl bosses and white women feminism.
You know, it's kind of flat, yes, you know, and
it's missing a lot of nuance. And so gottle G
(14:53):
is doing her own version of that here. And I
think that and like it's cute, and I think again,
I think everybody was happy it's cute in it at
the show clearly resonatesting because you know, she.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Is someone that very publicly went through a breakup and
made an album off of that experience and then I
think her fans really resonated and connected with that who
were also going through their own breakups and then found
empowerment on the other side. That is, for me, the
type of brand that she is. Yes, you know, I
went through something really hard, like we all do. I'm
(15:27):
on the other side of it, like hopefully we all
get to the other side of it, and I'm stronger
because of it. So here's my feminist anthem.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Right, So then the question now is like, is any
other expectation of her, just like are we barking up
the wrong tree? I think So it's just like it's
just it's just place, it's badly placed, badly placed.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, And I think because she has reached that like
mega global star level where you know, I love that
she can channel like Gorolina, but she's you know, when
she's performing, she's gottle g And I don't think that expectation.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
She's not She's she's not she's not the right one.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
You know, we have someone like a Becky g who
has not reached global star stardom, right. I think we
think she's fantastic and super talented, but she is someone
that is very vocal and I think because they came
up around the same time, they're often compared like, well, we.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Have Becky G. That's super vocal.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Becky G is also like a US born Latina, so
it's a very different I think political consciousness and understanding
of what's happening right now in this country.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
She's been very.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Vocal and active, like on the ground, you know, doing things,
and so I think that that's also where there's this
discomfort from listeners. It's like, well we have someone like that, Okay,
well let's keep supporting someone like that, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point too, about like, are
we expecting gottle G to become involved in a political
conversation that really is not hers. This is like a
United States domestic policy and human rights issue and she's
not from here.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, but she knows yours here. It's so murky. It's
so murky. She tours everywhere, ours here, she tours everywhere.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
And because I think, you know, there's this this just
really big emphasis on I think from the community, the
broader Latino community of like representation, right, it's like, well,
we have we have this representation, so like we want
to put all of all of our eggs in that basket.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, and I think that we do that with every
new star. You know, it's like, uh, to me, it's
also like having all these expectations of j Lo, you know,
and then having all these expectations of Shakira, and then
having like with each different star, it's like, well, why
aren't you uh doing this lifting politically for me? Well,
(17:53):
because they're not. They're just not going to and they
really never had and they don't want to and they
don't want to.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
They don't want to.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
We have stars, artists, celebrities that do and that they
want to, and those are the ones that do it.
But I think in this year of twenty twenty six,
like I don't think that the expectation or the call
should necessarily cease to exist, but I do think we
should be realistic that it's like, it's not going to
be all of them. It's not going to be everyone,
(18:21):
even if we may want them to be. We think
it's right, We think it's just I don't think that
that's the case anymore, especially as like, you know, being
conservative and more right wing is actually in vogue.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
It's actually like, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
As like popular as it's ever been so I would
say there's even less of a reason for folks to
hide their political affiliations now.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
And not only that, but you know, conservatism and Latini
thatd are not like separate entities, right, There is a
very very very deep like conservative vein within Latin you know,
on Latin American history, culture, communities. I mean, it's not
something that's foreign to Latini, that absolutely. And so there's
(19:08):
also this expectation that LATINX Latino Latina artists have an
inherent liberalism, progressivism, progressivism, which is probably just like not there. Yeah,
you know, I don't know what Carol G's family is about,
or what kind of family she comes from, or what
kind of school she went to, or the politics that
(19:29):
she grew up with in Colombia. I mean it could
I mean, come on, like, let's be so real.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
We have to This goes back to like the racial
politics of it all. Yes, you know, she's white Latina
in Colombia. Yeah, you know, we may read her differently
here in the US, but like in Colombia, like she's
it's different. And so putting these I think politics on
her is just I think that's why it falls flat.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
It falls very flat, and That's probably also why she's.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Not she's not going to do it.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
She's not doing it because she's that's your that's your
American language, that's your American politic. I'm from Eteyen. I
said it at the top of my set. Yeah, yeah,
I'm happy to be here. But like, that's your language,
and that's your that's your context. You know, I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know what what how she
(20:20):
votes in Colombia or her how her family votes in Colombia.
Who knows. I mean, it could be very surprising to us,
but then again not surprising at all.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Right, And I think when there are artists from Latin
America who are more progressive, they make it very known.
I'm thinking of Puerto Rican, but I'm thinking of like
Ele right past guest Gayidente's sister, right, she is an
incredible artist. She's very progressive. Like hardcore feminists, she makes
(20:51):
that politic known. Anattiju makes it known. These artists from
Latin America who you know are radical and are about it,
they make it very clear. And she's saying a lot
by not saying it, you know. And so again it's
like I need us to read between the lines like yes,
(21:12):
and then do what you will with that information. If
she's not doing what you expect her to do or
want her to do, then maybe we put that support elsewhere. Yeah,
there's I'm not same boycott her or anything in no way,
but I'm just saying that there are artists that are
doing what you want, so support those exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
And gott Algi is not the only one and Mariachirena,
They're not the only ones that has received criticism and
critique after Coachella. There's also been some writing about Los
Ermanos Flores so we can talk about them. They became
the first Salvadorin band to perform at Coachella, and from
Daniel Alvarenga, who wrote on their sub stack under Pucica Danny,
(21:54):
this is what he wrote about the performance. It's interesting
to me in the build up to this moment, there's
been all this fanfare about the first Salvadoran musical act
at Coachella, and all this gushing overrepresentation at a time
when El Salvadode is undergoing an underacknowledged dictatorship. It's no
longer hidden. Just this month, PBS released a frontline special
on President bukeles nefarious ties to Trump and gangs. So
(22:18):
it's not just Karl Gi, It's not just Mariachirina. There's
other Latin acts who performed at Coachella in history making
moments and that performance and what it means is also
being complicated.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
What I loved about this post on Substack from Daniel
Alvarenga is that he starts it with, all right, I'm
going to write something that's further going to alienate me
from my Salve community because this is this band is
like a you know, traditioned, loved band that folks have
grown up listening to, and so to critique is like damn,
(22:53):
Like am I going to be the one to do it?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
And also acknowledging like yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
It's It can be kind of lonely when you're the
one doing the critiquing and acknowledging of like hey, like
this is so cool and fun, but like, please let's
dig deeper, Like let's get go beyond the representation the
celebra celebration in my own words, right, this is what
I'm saying, and the celebration is cool, but like, what's next?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Can we get?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Are we ever going to get to a point where
we're beyond the visibility and the representation of it all
and being like happy with just that. And I think
until there's an abundance of representation and visibility, like we're
just we're going to be happy with what we get.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, it's the It's it's the Buckemen vitin, you know.
It's that. It's like, I'm here, I'm bobbing, but I
have questions.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Yes, I have a critique. Yeah, I'm like, like, don't
get me wrong.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Sometimes I'll be watching a movie, listening to something, reading
something and I'm like, oh no, like I feel the
critique forming, and I'm like and yeah, it's like can
you just enjoy things?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
And yes and yes and yes and and Daniel goes
on to say, at this point, we're so desperate, thirsty,
starving to feel represented on a global stage, whether it's
the spectacle of the Bukela administration or a Coachella performance,
that we are willing to overlook that over five hundred
Salvadorans have died in El Salvador's prisons and tens of
(24:16):
thousands are incarcerated, the vast majority without trial. I mean,
it's a human rights crisis. It's absolutely a human rights crisis.
Yeah and still and yet.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, and for those I'm familiar with the crisis in
Il Salvo, they're essentially living through a state sanctioned gang injunction.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
So anyone who is suspected.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Of being involved with gangs is being incarcerated without trial,
without proof, without evidence as well, which is why it's
a human rights violation.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
And it is.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
An ongoing I think conversation within the Salvadoran community and
the US Salvadoran community about and his regime and the
implications of quote safety and questioning what it means to
be safe.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
So this is again a small piece of a larger
conversation that that community is having.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
It's a big conversation, and I see it everywhere because
there's also now increased tourism to El Salvador, where before
there was not. El Salvador was considered very unsafe and
people just were not visiting.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Don't go anywhere, look, Amonis, We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
And that piece of thing seems to be shifting. And
I've seen Airbnb ads for places in El Salvador and like,
you know, like come visit us. It's beautiful here. And
I've seen salvador and influencers posting their time in El
Salvador on TikTok and on reels and really showcasing the
beauty of the country that maybe we weren't able to
(25:55):
see before, and that maybe Salvadorans in the diaspora weren't
able to go back and tap into. So what I've
seen is very complicated feelings by Salvadorans around that facet
as well.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah, and that was one of I think one of
the reasons Daniel wrote this piece on Substack is that
the lead singer of this group, Nodi Flotes, said to
the audience, I want to say something to the Salvadorans,
the Latin Americans visit us in El Salvalor. We are
at peace. The country is beautiful, and we are waiting
for you there. Thank God, peace has arrived in El Salvador.
(26:31):
And so you know, Daniel Varenge is calling this propaganda,
which I don't disagree with. And to that point is
that now there's this image shift of El salvor But
at what cost.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
At what cost, at what human costs? Yeah, it's I
think not unlike here an incarceration of entertainment of immigrants
or supposed alleged assumed illegal immigrants and without trial, without representation,
(27:04):
without due process. And then the way that our administration
here then talks about like safer streets, a safer country.
You know, it's two sides of the same coin, I think,
and I think that in order to get away with
like mass incarceration of people without due process, there has
(27:26):
to be like a public propaganda campaign to talk about
why it's good and why the country benefits overall. And
then people are disappeared in detention centers and again without
the due process. So this is where we have the
human rights violation of it all, you know. So what's
happening is not is not too different. I don't think,
(27:49):
you know, both things are true, right, Like there's injustice
in the world. Life is pain. Life is pain. And
I think that under capitalism and in a postcolonial world,
there are very few things that we can like really enjoy,
right that don't come with a complication, Yeah, that don't
(28:10):
come with a caveat that are not somehow tied to
some human suffering somewhere. It's unfortunate, but it's like the
reality of a consumerist world.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, I mean, you're not going to find liberation at Coachella,
like it's owned by a billionaire who continuously donates billions
of dollars to you know, anti choice groups, anti LGBT groups.
You know, liberation is not coming at these capitalistic music festivals.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
They're not They're fun. Go to them if you want.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
You know, No way am I critiquing folks who go,
because I do think we need space for you know,
music and dance and celebration. I know, I felt like
everybody was there this year, by the way, probably because
Gottleg was performing. Yeah, but I saw so many people
there this year particular, So I don't think that you
(29:04):
shouldn't go to them, but you know, being aware, like
if you're calling for these mega stars to, I don't know,
be politically active at these global stages, I don't know
if that's the stage.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
I feel really conflicted about it, honestly because me as
on a personal level, I'm like, yeah, do it like
be political and radical at these like super capitalistic stages.
You know, we had there were artists that there, There
were artists that were performing at Coachella that were making
political statements.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
So it does happen.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I think where it gets very murky and gray and nuanced.
For me, is like, okay, but do these artists necessarily
have to That's where I think I get a little confused.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
I honestly don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Yeah, And I mean this is like we're entering into
several years of huge, global, high profile events here in LA. Right, So, well,
we had the Super Bowl up up north in the
Bay and bad money performing, and Coachella happens every year,
and this year we have the World Cup here in
(30:13):
Los Angeles, and then twenty twenty eight we're going to
have the Olympics. So for each major, huge global event,
I think all of these questions come flooding in because
all of these events come with like huge influxes of money.
But also for events like the World Cup, for the
super Bowl, for the Olympics, that's also an increased federal presence,
(30:35):
you know, and all the complications that come with that,
and then of course it's all on stolen land. So
I mean, I don't actually know. I think that for
these artists. Like another hot take that I have right
now is that for an artist to make an anti
administration statement would probably derail their career in a way,
(30:57):
but for them to say nothing is going to like
kind of act as a shield and a cover for them.
But I also think that the artists who are making
like anti ice and anti immigration statements, like I don't
necessarily know what impact it has. I don't necessarily know
like what difference it makes. I don't know how we
measure it. Ye, I don't know how we follow that.
(31:22):
I don't know how we follow the echo. And I
also don't know if, like the artists who are making
the anti ice statements are necessarily big enough and powerful
enough to then like have the impact we would want
them to have.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, I think it comes back to, like, well, why
are you doing it? You know, are you doing it
so the people who are listening to you in this case,
music feel you know, like it's like a lifeline and
so so many ways, Like music has this healing power
to it. So if you're an artist and you're creating
(32:01):
music and that has this political message, or you're thinking of,
you know, your community that's currently being targeted, what kind
of I think it's more of the personal impact that
that can have on someone who you know, maybe their
family was just attained, maybe they're going through an immigration process,
(32:21):
you know, with their family, and so it's more of
like that personal impact that maybe can't be measured through
you know, quantity and through like this data of the impact,
but more so like the healing personal how impact that
music can have.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, I agree with you. So I think that like
when we're asking artists to take a stand and make
a statement, I think that's kind of understanding that the
impact is personal, that it's it's spiritual and it's emotional,
and that what we're asking the artists to do is
not actually to be like an activist. We're actually asking
(33:01):
the artists to like impact policy, rather to impact like
the listening experience for the audience.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
I think there's also too, just like all these historical
examples of artists that you know, we're doing that, and
I think that in some ways there's this yearning or
nostalgia for that type of artist that maybe can't exist
anymore in like a digital age or in this like
(33:30):
late stage capitalism, because there was a time when we
had artists that were making music directly in contradiction of
the state of directly in contradiction of like dictators, and
so there was a period where that was actually not
(33:53):
an expectation of the artists, but I think something that
artists were inherently doing and being called to do. Of
course not across all genres or even countries, but there
is a tradition in that, and so I feel that
there's also maybe even folks aren't even fully aware that
maybe that's where that yearning and nostalgias coming from, is
(34:16):
that there was a time then when are pop stars,
Maybe not our pop stars, but our artists and musicians
were doing that thing and they're not anymore.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Protest music and roots music, and I think a lot
of those artists were black, black American artists.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
I'm in particular thinking about like Latin American artists, like
in Chile in particular during like when I was speaking
right now, I was thinking about like the Pinochet regime
and the Chilean artists who were making that type of
protest music.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
But yes, also in the United contexts.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, I also think that that like protest music tradition
maybe even predates the concept of the pop star absolutely,
And I think that what a big difference is the
amount of wealth that musicians can now have, Yes, and
perhaps that amount of wealth was not necessarily a reality
(35:13):
for recording artists back in the day and at the time,
and I think that now and not just today, but
I think this has been brewing for the past several decades,
that a musician is not just a musician, but they're
like a brand in and of themselves, and they start
companies and they have products, and they have merch and
(35:34):
thequila lines and restaurants. Scottle Gae has a restaurant. I
went it was fabulous, Promensa. But they have, you know,
their conglomerates in and of themselves, and I don't think
that's always been the reality.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Is that also because you can't be you can't make
money off of one thing anymore because of late stage capitalism,
off of the music alive, you can't, like especially with streaming.
Like maybe before you could earn a living, you could
earn a living, you know, even as a smaller artist,
but now you have to be a brand in order
(36:07):
to diversify your portfolio.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Well yeah, and that's the thing is that the music
is not art just for art's sake that you get
you make the art, you get paid for the art.
The music is a vehicle to sell other things. Yeah, right,
Like if you're not earning a living off of the
music itself. The music is a driver for advertising products.
(36:30):
So I think that, like it's going to be really
hard to have musicians who are leftist vocal activists when
they have a brand, right and they have products to sell. Yeah,
so yeah, once again late stage capitalism. Yeah, it's the
container and it's like, you know, everybody's in the fish bowl. Yeah,
(36:52):
and so can we have nice things? We can both caveats.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, there's lots of caveats, caveats, And I think that that,
for me, is also one of the like.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
You know, for it really does I don't mean this
in like a like I'm.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Just throwing away this word out like I'm throwing this
word out like, but it does feel like a type
of gas lighting that happens when you have Latino artists
on these like really big stages and then and at
the same time you have these nationwide policies that are
harming direct communities that are Latino right or indigenous or
(37:30):
immigrant communities, and so it does feel like this really
weird like gas lighting and crazy making that's happening. That
makes me think of this saying like you love the culture,
but you hate the people right where we can love
the music and the food, but I actually don't really
want to see you and your people actually make it
and do it and like all of the cultural origins
(37:52):
that make this thing that I like, actually don't want
any part of you.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Sure, it's the the dangling of the carrot, right, like
you can have this, you can have this, This is
for you. This is nice, but like over here, we're
abducting your community. So you know, it's back to the
basic question of the episode is like visibility, but at
what cost? You know, visibility, What does it really mean?
(38:21):
What does it really do? How does it help? How
does it hurt? Is it just like, yeah, is it
a placebo? It's not actually a solution to anything. It's
not a cure. It's not getting at like the root.
Cause yeah, it's it makes us feel better in the moment.
But is it fixing anything. I don't think so. But
(38:42):
I also don't think it's supposed to.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Yeah, That's how I felt after the Bad Bunny performance
at the Super Bowl. I felt like, oh man, this
was so energizing and amazing and it made me feel
good and I'm going to harness this power and sorry,
I'm going to harness this energy to like keep going.
It doesn't just like end here like with this feel
good moment, Like how then does this propel me forward
(39:05):
to take action or do some type of change within
my little circle or community. And I think very similar
when we participate in these events, we should think about
them in that way where it doesn't just end here
with this like really beautiful fun celebration and celebration of
music and culture. But then how does it drive me
(39:26):
forward to do the things that I want to do
for my community that will actually have an impact versus
like saying ice out.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, absolutely, it's yeah. Music, dancing, getting together to party
are supposed to be things that like refill our cups
and reinvigorate us and rejuvenate us so that we can
go back to our day to day lives and fight
the good fight. It's not actually the solution, right, so
(39:54):
we can't think of it that way. Yeah, it's just
a show, you know, and it's post to entertain us
and make us happy and give us some doorphins so
that we can go out and like do the work.
That's really I think what it's about. And we can't
expect the artists to do the work. We have to
do the work, like the audience is actually the one
(40:15):
who has to do the work.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, I think we invite the artists to do the work,
you know, with us, but they might not and we
have to be okay with them not accepting that invitation.
And again I think focusing or giving more energy to
the artists that do. I think of like Snow the Product,
who is not at the global superstar level. She is
a would be in relation to gott O. G would
(40:38):
be considered a smaller artist, right, But yeah, she's someone
that's been super vocal making music about the administration and
the theo who votes for Trump? You know she and
she's in the comments of the she's I've seen her
in the comment section when people in particular with the
Mariacci Los Angeles you know conversation, she was like, it's complicit,
(41:01):
you know, and so you have those artists that are
doing it and they want to do it.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Yeah, And then the and then the other question becomes
like and I love the Snow the product. I think
Snow the Product is great and has like a very
wide range of music that she makes. But then but
then I think you ask your every day like music lover,
are you bumping the political tracks, Like, is that what
(41:27):
you're listening to, like when you want to get hype
and when you want to like like catch a vibe,
And the answer is probably know. So this is the
other thing too, is like sometimes I think that like
the music that is ultra political is also not necessarily
the stuff that people like want to listen to, you know.
(41:48):
And I think that like that complicates things as well,
because as an artist, I can see how you would
want to bring politics into your work, But then is
it translating for your listeners for your audience, right?
Speaker 1 (42:03):
That fatigue, that fatigue of it all, Yeah, I mean,
and that's another layer of it, right, That is another
layer of it is well, people are maybe at Coachella
to escape.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
I don't know how those girls. Those tickets are so.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Expensive, of all the festivals so expensive, But yeah, I
mean people do use these types of events as a
form of reprieve from the day to day life, right,
and so yeah, but then also people are energized at
the same time, So I don't know. I mean, we
(42:36):
never claim or believe to have like the answer, and
I think that in all of our conversations it's about
bringing the perspective and then like trying to be best
informed and move forward with that, you know, with with
(42:57):
the cultural critique, if you will.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yeah, and it's just that it's a critique.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Yeah, and it's yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yeah, and I don't know either. I don't know either.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
I don't at all.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
We're just discussing. We're just discussing. But it's important. It's
an important conversation. I think that, you know, like I'll
never forget remember when Bill hook said Beyonce was a terrorist.
I mean, you know, there's always a level of critique.
There's always a layer of critique, you know what.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
I've seen people bring that up again and they were like,
you know what, I was really mad at this.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Bill Hooks was right. Beyonce's a capitalist. Beyonce's a capitalist, and.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
As they all are. I mean they're millionaires, they're billionaires.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
You know, we've said billions of times that we love Beyonce. Right, Yeah,
she's was at the mcgala. She is in community with
the billionaires.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Yeah, of course, you know, and it's like.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
She's someone else that has has made like you know,
pseudo political type of musuals and music and some of
it yes, as political. Some of it is maybe a
little more like pseudo. But you know, then we had
someone like Bell Hiks at the time though was like
absolutely not, like she's not.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
The future feminism and you know what, Bell Hooks was
not wrong.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Maybe we couldn't see it at the time because we
were so I think this was during like the Lemonade
era of Beyonce, so people were really writing for her,
as they continue to do so. But yeah, maybe we
definitely couldn't see it then when when Bell Hooks was
critiquing Beyonce.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Right, So I think you know, it's I think every
artist is going to be at one point or another
if they're big enough taken to task in that way. Yeah,
and especially if they are in some capacity representing or
claiming to represent a marginalized group, you expect to then
be brought to the table. And whether you engage or
(44:56):
not is a different thing. But like that's going to happen.
So what's happening here?
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, And this is the cost of visibility if you
are going to be at this global level, if you're
going to be hyper visible, this is the type of
conversation that is going to be had, not only about you,
but about your work and then how you profit from
the community that you claim to represent.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, it likely will not have an impact on their
business and how they operate and how they conduct themselves,
which is fine, but yeah, but the conversation is going
to happen. It's natural.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Yeah, the cultural critique is maybe maybe will not change
the culture, but it is a part of the cultural conversation.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Yes, culture begets critique and change and you know input,
like culture is created, and so that means that people
have like contributions, and sometimes the contribution is a question
or yeah, criticism, and that's how things move forward, and
that's what we're doing here.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
I remember moving the culture years ago. We were like,
we're not critics. Yes the fuck we are.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
We criticize.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
We are actually cultural critics.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
And I don't think we realized what we were doing
when we were doing it. I think we were just like, yeah, well,
this is analysis, you know, this is what we're doing.
This is what we're talking about. But now, with like
eleven seasons, ten years under our belt, I'm like, oh, yeah,
we have been culturally critiquing everything we've been seeing in
the past decade. And it's been a lot of stuff
that we've seen oh.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah, oh and we've received critiques as well and criticism
because that's part of it too. Like we make something,
we put it out there, it will also invite critique
and criticism. It's just the natural life cycle of creation
and creativity. You can't put something out into the world
and not expect feedback. Like feedback is normal, it's natural.
(46:54):
We welcome it. We are not above it. We're not
immune to it. And I don't necessarily think that like
our audience holds back necessarily.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
They don't.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
They don't. And so we're all like participating in the
same ecosystem here, you know, like we're part of it.
We receive it, we give it out. It's this, it's
it's it's it's flowing absolutely well.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
On that note, thank you for listening to another cap Radio.
We'll catch you next time.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Bessie bus Loca
O la la lo motes, I'm Deosa and I'm Mala.
Welcome to look at Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Today. We're talking about the very real cost of visibility,
and we're focusing on LATINX visibility, starting with gottle G
and Coachella.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
In the past year, Latino artists have performed on some
of the biggest stages across the United States. As we know,
Bad Bunny headlined the sixtieth Super Bowl and was the
first artist to perform an entirely Spanish language set. Then
gottle G made history as the first Latina artist to
headline at Coachella. These performances, of course, lead to public opinions, discourse,
(00:42):
and endless commentary.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Nothing is simple, and neither was Carol G's history making
performance at Coachella. So we're going to dig into the
weeds of the pros, the cons, the good, the bad,
what people loved about it, and what people didn't like
so much much about it. So we want to start
with her opening the performance itself. She walked onto the
stage and said, I'm Carolina Hiral Donavaro from Medin, Colombia,
(01:11):
and she opened with Latina Forever. She brought out an
all female Mariacci Band and Becky g joined her both weekends,
so it was like full throttle Latina. We're here, we're repping,
we are embodying our Latini dad, and we are doing
it boldly and loudly and proudly.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
And you know, her most recent album, Tropico Quita, really
paid homage to all the different sounds of Latin America,
going as far back as the beat of mambo, right,
and she really came up as regaton like pap regaton
as well. And so for her to situate herself I
think in this like larger history of sound in Latin
(01:55):
America with Tropico Queta, but then also pay homage to
the artists that came before her on that stage, like
we see Neande, she did a cover to Lorie Stefan's Mithira,
like really really considering I think, in my opinion, like
the artists that came before her in order for her
(02:16):
to be on that stage.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Absolutely, And she said on stage, I am the first
Latino woman to headline at Coachella, and that means that
it has taken twenty seven years of Coachella history for
a Latina to headline, which is pretty major.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
And during the performance. She did say, this is for
my Latinos that have been struggling in this country lately.
We stand for them, I stand for my Latino community.
I'm very proud because this brings out the best in US, unity, resilience,
and a strong spirit. We do this because we want
everyone to feel welcome to our culture. So I want
everyone to feel proud of where you come from. Don't
(02:56):
feel fear, feel pride.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, And I think this performance definitely comes on the
heels of this larger conversation about the responsibility of artists,
especially artists of color, Latino artists, LATINX artists who make
you know, global music that has now taken a global stage, right,
(03:19):
but have really been supported and platformed by their Latino community,
Like do they have a responsibility to speak up and
speak out when policies and politics are plaguing and harming
said community, right, So it's definitely part of that larger conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah. And gottle G was recently on the cover of
Playboy and she was interviewed by Paula Ramos and the
question was asked, like, are you going to say ice out?
Is that going to be a statement? And gottle G
was sort of in her own and you guys can
go and read her interview and Playboy, but Gottlegia was
sort of saying like, I don't know what impact that's
(04:01):
going to have me saying Ice out. And at Coachella,
she didn't specifically say Ice out. She made it about
empowerment for Latinos. She made it about feeling pride and
not fear, definitely alluding to the immigration crisis without specifically
naming Ice or specifically like positioning herself as an anti
(04:24):
Ice figure or activist. So I think that she definitely
was very careful in her wording and her messaging. She
likely has had a lot of conversations with her team.
I'm sure Coachella is huge and it was her moment,
but it was also a moment for her fans, who
are predominantly Latinos. So she said it without saying it,
(04:45):
which is a really interesting choice. I'm not surprised, though.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
It's not surprising in the least because gottal Gee, I
think has historically shown that she kind of teeters on
this a political line. She's very much, like you mentioned,
focusing on the empowerment. I think she very much from
what I've seen and this is you know, we can
get into the weeds of like the racial politics, right,
but like she's very much talking about like women empowerment
(05:11):
women first. It's kind of like this girl boss type
of feminism. Yeah, she's not radical, she's not you know,
she has been breaking barriers in so many ways, but
I think to expect something different I think is also
I don't know, like she's shown us that she's not
the most politically active or vocal. And we put a
(05:31):
lot of expectations on artists. And I'm not saying we
shouldn't ask our ask artists to speak out or to
support our community in tangible ways, but I think she
in particular has had a track record of not being
the most like politically active or vocal.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, And I think the same can be said for
like a lot of pop stars. She's a pop star,
and a lot of pop stars they're touring and they're
making money and that's really the focus. And if you
are too political and you are too anti administration, that's
going to impact your touring and it's going to impact
your bottom line absolutely, you know. And so somebody doesn't
(06:11):
get to the point where they're headlining at Coachella without
playing politics and without playing with the with the big
boys and like accepting their money. I mean, it's just
kind of how it goes, I think to that.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
To that point, though, there's you have, you know, not
in the same way, but you have someone like Bad
Bunny who has had a history of like speaking out
and being very political, especially when it comes to corruption
in Puerto Rico. And you know, so it's like you
have another example of a different type of artist also
(06:46):
selling out stadiums, also headlining, but.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Does it in his own way and is political also.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
So I think that that's where that push and pool
comes from the community. You have these two artists that
are politically very different and still selling out stadiums, but
one is more politically inclined than the other.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah. Yeah, And it does remind me of the conversation
that we had around the Super Bowl and Ed Bunny,
because like, well, to perform the Super Bowl at all,
I mean, how anti establishment can you be exactly? You know,
I mean it's the Super Bowl, there's a federal presence,
there was increased ice presence in the area. There was
a lot of criticism as well, absolutely about Bad Bunny
(07:26):
performing the Super Bowl at all. And then of course,
like Coachella is in the Coachella Valley, you know, and
we can talk about displacement and indigeneity and immigrants and
farm workers and the whole thing. So I think that
it's like accepting the job in and of itself complicates
one's politics. No matter what one says or demonstrates on
(07:47):
the stage, it's still like the container, you know, and
you can fill the container with whatever you want, but
it's still like it's a super Bowl sized container. It's
a Coachella size container.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Absolutely, And the container is capitalism.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
The container is capitalism.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
It's billionaires donating to conservative groups, to anti LGBT groups,
to the administration and their campaigns, you know, when they
were campaigning, and so yes, the container is already corrupted.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, And so this being said, I think that there
was a lot of celebration of gottle Gee at Coachella.
I think that people were very happy with her performance. Overall.
I think it seemed I wasn't there, but it seemed
like good vibes, it seemed like fun. It seemed like
the Latinas who were in attendance were happy. But after
the first weekend, a different conversation started to emerge. So
(08:43):
mariacci Rena de Los Angeles and all women group that
was founded in nineteen ninety four turned out to have
some complicated politics attached to its founder, and this began
a lot of online chatter and debate questions and kind
of put the group under a microscope.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yes, yeah, So NBC reporter Amber Frias interviewed Crystal Edanane,
a member of the group and also a daughter of
the founder, Jose Ernandez. They asked her during this filmed
interview about her political affiliation, the group's political affiliation, and
it was shut down pretty quickly by someone on their team,
(09:23):
and so, you know, folks of course continued to dig,
and so what they find is that the founder's wife
that I said on this is the president of the
Conservative Lincoln Club, which is one of the largest conservative
groups in Orange County, and she also led the organization's
efforts to recall Governor Gavin Newsom, and so in this
(09:46):
in a video also circulated online that said on this
is heard saying the organization invites conservative leaders like Florida
Governor Ron de Sante's and Tucker Carlson. So by default,
the the Mariacci group was implicated, you know, and associated
with conservatism and extreme right wing values and also supporting
(10:13):
Donald Trump and this administration.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
But of course the official statement of the group indicates
that the founder and director of Maria Chirina has not
made public statements endorsing any political candidate. And I think
that's really common, right, going back to artists not putting
their politics out there, artists not making direct political statements,
artists not indicating how they're voting, who they're voting for,
(10:38):
or their party affiliation. And so I think that that
really the director of Mariachirina is in a way falling
in line with gottle g And they are the same
in that regard, like.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
By not saying something, they're saying something.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
They are saying something.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, don't go anywhere, look, amotives will be right back.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I think artists and those who are performing and accepting
ticket sales, they need to allow the performance to remain
focused on the music, right and not letting the politics
become part of the show. And so I think that's
like what they're trying to do.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, and it was, you know, this very predictable at
this point, this very predictable cycle ensued right online, folks.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Were there was outrage at the Mariacci group.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
How could they celebrate the culture when they allegedly support
the administration? And then the anger was directed at gott
O g and her team.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
You know, did she know? Should she have known?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Whose responsibility is it to know the political affiliations of
every one involved in this large scale performance?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And so again it goes I think deeper into the
responsibility that is put on Latino artists. Right when they're
on these very large stages, they become responsible for an
entire community. And it's not necessarily fair to put so much,
I think, on artists and expect them to represent such
(12:15):
a vastly diverse community that's clearly very politically different as well,
But it happens.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah. I also a hot take if cattle Gee, just
because she's the artist in question and the headliner in question,
if she could only choose from Mariachi's who are outwardly liberal,
she would have very few to choose from. I think
I don't necessarily know that the Mariachi community is known
(12:45):
for being leftists or being like politically left leaning. I
think that Mariaci in and of itself is coming from
like like a machista sort of tradition, and even this
is an all female group, but I don't don't necessarily
know that. I think of Mariaci and like liberation politics
or liberation music.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
And within this musical tradition there's also the progressive groups
that form within them, right like as a pushback, as
resistance to the cultural norms, the traditions of it all,
like a group like Mariacci Atgoiti's, which then sends a
different message which she could do. She could have done,
but again, I think she has shown us that she's
(13:30):
an artist that's about women empowerment her focus.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
I'm not saying that I personally think.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
That gottle G is bisexual, Okay, but that's a conversation
for a different day.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Is a conversation.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
She is not someone that's like publicly come out, and
I don't expect her to. But again, because she I think,
as someone that has positioned herself as like the girl
boss type of feminist, she's going to pick an all
women Mariacci group versus like a queer Mariacci group, Oh
for sure, you know what I mean, Like she's going
to pick optics, She's going to pick the all women one.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
In my opinion, yes, absolutely, because that is the feminism
is the politic there.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Her type of feminism, her brand of feminism is going
to be like the women power.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, and so it's you know, Latina forever. It's a
Latina feminist approach to her show and to her activism.
It's not necessarily like, oh, we are people of color.
I don't think that's her politic either, and I don't
think she identifies.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
That way, no, no, no no, and.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
So yeah, and when we use that like very specific
lens and terminology, like yeah, there's gonna be issues and
there's gonna be complications with it. Absolutely, And it's not
unlike like white women girl bosses and white women feminism.
You know, it's kind of flat, yes, you know, and
it's missing a lot of nuance. And so gottle G
(14:53):
is doing her own version of that here. And I
think that and like it's cute, and I think again,
I think everybody was happy it's cute in it at
the show clearly resonatesting because you know, she.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Is someone that very publicly went through a breakup and
made an album off of that experience and then I
think her fans really resonated and connected with that who
were also going through their own breakups and then found
empowerment on the other side. That is, for me, the
type of brand that she is. Yes, you know, I
went through something really hard, like we all do. I'm
(15:27):
on the other side of it, like hopefully we all
get to the other side of it, and I'm stronger
because of it. So here's my feminist anthem.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Right, So then the question now is like, is any
other expectation of her, just like are we barking up
the wrong tree? I think So it's just like it's
just it's just place, it's badly placed, badly placed.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, And I think because she has reached that like
mega global star level where you know, I love that
she can channel like Gorolina, but she's you know, when
she's performing, she's gottle g And I don't think that expectation.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
She's not She's she's not she's not the right one.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
You know, we have someone like a Becky g who
has not reached global star stardom, right. I think we
think she's fantastic and super talented, but she is someone
that is very vocal and I think because they came
up around the same time, they're often compared like, well, we.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Have Becky G. That's super vocal.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Becky G is also like a US born Latina, so
it's a very different I think political consciousness and understanding
of what's happening right now in this country.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
She's been very.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Vocal and active, like on the ground, you know, doing things,
and so I think that that's also where there's this
discomfort from listeners. It's like, well we have someone like that, Okay,
well let's keep supporting someone like that, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point too, about like, are
we expecting gottle G to become involved in a political
conversation that really is not hers. This is like a
United States domestic policy and human rights issue and she's
not from here.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, but she knows yours here. It's so murky. It's
so murky. She tours everywhere, ours here, she tours everywhere.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
And because I think, you know, there's this this just
really big emphasis on I think from the community, the
broader Latino community of like representation, right, it's like, well,
we have we have this representation, so like we want
to put all of all of our eggs in that basket.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, and I think that we do that with every
new star. You know, it's like, uh, to me, it's
also like having all these expectations of j Lo, you know,
and then having all these expectations of Shakira, and then
having like with each different star, it's like, well, why
aren't you uh doing this lifting politically for me? Well,
(17:53):
because they're not. They're just not going to and they
really never had and they don't want to and they
don't want to.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
They don't want to.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
We have stars, artists, celebrities that do and that they
want to, and those are the ones that do it.
But I think in this year of twenty twenty six,
like I don't think that the expectation or the call
should necessarily cease to exist, but I do think we
should be realistic that it's like, it's not going to
be all of them. It's not going to be everyone,
(18:21):
even if we may want them to be. We think
it's right, We think it's just I don't think that
that's the case anymore, especially as like, you know, being
conservative and more right wing is actually in vogue.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
It's actually like, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
As like popular as it's ever been so I would
say there's even less of a reason for folks to
hide their political affiliations now.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
And not only that, but you know, conservatism and Latini
thatd are not like separate entities, right, There is a
very very very deep like conservative vein within Latin you know,
on Latin American history, culture, communities. I mean, it's not
something that's foreign to Latini, that absolutely. And so there's
(19:08):
also this expectation that LATINX Latino Latina artists have an
inherent liberalism, progressivism, progressivism, which is probably just like not there. Yeah,
you know, I don't know what Carol G's family is about,
or what kind of family she comes from, or what
kind of school she went to, or the politics that
(19:29):
she grew up with in Colombia. I mean it could
I mean, come on, like, let's be so real.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
We have to This goes back to like the racial
politics of it all. Yes, you know, she's white Latina
in Colombia. Yeah, you know, we may read her differently
here in the US, but like in Colombia, like she's
it's different. And so putting these I think politics on
her is just I think that's why it falls flat.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
It falls very flat, and That's probably also why she's.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Not she's not going to do it.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
She's not doing it because she's that's your that's your
American language, that's your American politic. I'm from Eteyen. I
said it at the top of my set. Yeah, yeah,
I'm happy to be here. But like, that's your language,
and that's your that's your context. You know, I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know what what how she
(20:20):
votes in Colombia or her how her family votes in Colombia.
Who knows. I mean, it could be very surprising to us,
but then again not surprising at all.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Right, And I think when there are artists from Latin
America who are more progressive, they make it very known.
I'm thinking of Puerto Rican, but I'm thinking of like
Ele right past guest Gayidente's sister, right, she is an
incredible artist. She's very progressive. Like hardcore feminists, she makes
(20:51):
that politic known. Anattiju makes it known. These artists from
Latin America who you know are radical and are about it,
they make it very clear. And she's saying a lot
by not saying it, you know. And so again it's
like I need us to read between the lines like yes,
(21:12):
and then do what you will with that information. If
she's not doing what you expect her to do or
want her to do, then maybe we put that support elsewhere. Yeah,
there's I'm not same boycott her or anything in no way,
but I'm just saying that there are artists that are
doing what you want, so support those exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
And gott Algi is not the only one and Mariachirena,
They're not the only ones that has received criticism and
critique after Coachella. There's also been some writing about Los
Ermanos Flores so we can talk about them. They became
the first Salvadorin band to perform at Coachella, and from
Daniel Alvarenga, who wrote on their sub stack under Pucica Danny,
(21:54):
this is what he wrote about the performance. It's interesting
to me in the build up to this moment, there's
been all this fanfare about the first Salvadoran musical act
at Coachella, and all this gushing overrepresentation at a time
when El Salvadode is undergoing an underacknowledged dictatorship. It's no
longer hidden. Just this month, PBS released a frontline special
on President bukeles nefarious ties to Trump and gangs. So
(22:18):
it's not just Karl Gi, It's not just Mariachirina. There's
other Latin acts who performed at Coachella in history making
moments and that performance and what it means is also
being complicated.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
What I loved about this post on Substack from Daniel
Alvarenga is that he starts it with, all right, I'm
going to write something that's further going to alienate me
from my Salve community because this is this band is
like a you know, traditioned, loved band that folks have
grown up listening to, and so to critique is like damn,
(22:53):
Like am I going to be the one to do it?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
And also acknowledging like yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
It's It can be kind of lonely when you're the
one doing the critiquing and acknowledging of like hey, like
this is so cool and fun, but like, please let's
dig deeper, Like let's get go beyond the representation the
celebra celebration in my own words, right, this is what
I'm saying, and the celebration is cool, but like, what's next?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Can we get?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Are we ever going to get to a point where
we're beyond the visibility and the representation of it all
and being like happy with just that. And I think
until there's an abundance of representation and visibility, like we're
just we're going to be happy with what we get.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, it's the It's it's the Buckemen vitin, you know.
It's that. It's like, I'm here, I'm bobbing, but I
have questions.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Yes, I have a critique. Yeah, I'm like, like, don't
get me wrong.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Sometimes I'll be watching a movie, listening to something, reading
something and I'm like, oh no, like I feel the
critique forming, and I'm like and yeah, it's like can
you just enjoy things?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
And yes and yes and yes and and Daniel goes
on to say, at this point, we're so desperate, thirsty,
starving to feel represented on a global stage, whether it's
the spectacle of the Bukela administration or a Coachella performance,
that we are willing to overlook that over five hundred
Salvadorans have died in El Salvador's prisons and tens of
(24:16):
thousands are incarcerated, the vast majority without trial. I mean,
it's a human rights crisis. It's absolutely a human rights crisis.
Yeah and still and yet.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, and for those I'm familiar with the crisis in
Il Salvo, they're essentially living through a state sanctioned gang injunction.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
So anyone who is suspected.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Of being involved with gangs is being incarcerated without trial,
without proof, without evidence as well, which is why it's
a human rights violation.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
And it is.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
An ongoing I think conversation within the Salvadoran community and
the US Salvadoran community about and his regime and the
implications of quote safety and questioning what it means to
be safe.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
So this is again a small piece of a larger
conversation that that community is having.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
It's a big conversation, and I see it everywhere because
there's also now increased tourism to El Salvador, where before
there was not. El Salvador was considered very unsafe and
people just were not visiting.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Don't go anywhere, look, Amonis, We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
And that piece of thing seems to be shifting. And
I've seen Airbnb ads for places in El Salvador and like,
you know, like come visit us. It's beautiful here. And
I've seen salvador and influencers posting their time in El
Salvador on TikTok and on reels and really showcasing the
beauty of the country that maybe we weren't able to
(25:55):
see before, and that maybe Salvadorans in the diaspora weren't
able to go back and tap into. So what I've
seen is very complicated feelings by Salvadorans around that facet
as well.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah, and that was one of I think one of
the reasons Daniel wrote this piece on Substack is that
the lead singer of this group, Nodi Flotes, said to
the audience, I want to say something to the Salvadorans,
the Latin Americans visit us in El Salvalor. We are
at peace. The country is beautiful, and we are waiting
for you there. Thank God, peace has arrived in El Salvador.
(26:31):
And so you know, Daniel Varenge is calling this propaganda,
which I don't disagree with. And to that point is
that now there's this image shift of El salvor But
at what cost.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
At what cost, at what human costs? Yeah, it's I
think not unlike here an incarceration of entertainment of immigrants
or supposed alleged assumed illegal immigrants and without trial, without representation,
(27:04):
without due process. And then the way that our administration
here then talks about like safer streets, a safer country.
You know, it's two sides of the same coin, I think,
and I think that in order to get away with
like mass incarceration of people without due process, there has
(27:26):
to be like a public propaganda campaign to talk about
why it's good and why the country benefits overall. And
then people are disappeared in detention centers and again without
the due process. So this is where we have the
human rights violation of it all, you know. So what's
happening is not is not too different. I don't think,
(27:49):
you know, both things are true, right, Like there's injustice
in the world. Life is pain. Life is pain. And
I think that under capitalism and in a postcolonial world,
there are very few things that we can like really enjoy,
right that don't come with a complication, Yeah, that don't
(28:10):
come with a caveat that are not somehow tied to
some human suffering somewhere. It's unfortunate, but it's like the
reality of a consumerist world.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, I mean, you're not going to find liberation at Coachella,
like it's owned by a billionaire who continuously donates billions
of dollars to you know, anti choice groups, anti LGBT groups.
You know, liberation is not coming at these capitalistic music festivals.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
They're not They're fun. Go to them if you want.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
You know, No way am I critiquing folks who go,
because I do think we need space for you know,
music and dance and celebration. I know, I felt like
everybody was there this year, by the way, probably because
Gottleg was performing. Yeah, but I saw so many people
there this year particular, So I don't think that you
(29:04):
shouldn't go to them, but you know, being aware, like
if you're calling for these mega stars to, I don't know,
be politically active at these global stages, I don't know
if that's the stage.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
I feel really conflicted about it, honestly because me as
on a personal level, I'm like, yeah, do it like
be political and radical at these like super capitalistic stages.
You know, we had there were artists that there, There
were artists that were performing at Coachella that were making
political statements.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
So it does happen.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I think where it gets very murky and gray and nuanced.
For me, is like, okay, but do these artists necessarily
have to That's where I think I get a little confused.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
I honestly don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Yeah, And I mean this is like we're entering into
several years of huge, global, high profile events here in LA. Right, So, well,
we had the Super Bowl up up north in the
Bay and bad money performing, and Coachella happens every year,
and this year we have the World Cup here in
(30:13):
Los Angeles, and then twenty twenty eight we're going to
have the Olympics. So for each major, huge global event,
I think all of these questions come flooding in because
all of these events come with like huge influxes of money.
But also for events like the World Cup, for the
super Bowl, for the Olympics, that's also an increased federal presence,
(30:35):
you know, and all the complications that come with that,
and then of course it's all on stolen land. So
I mean, I don't actually know. I think that for
these artists. Like another hot take that I have right
now is that for an artist to make an anti
administration statement would probably derail their career in a way,
(30:57):
but for them to say nothing is going to like
kind of act as a shield and a cover for them.
But I also think that the artists who are making
like anti ice and anti immigration statements, like I don't
necessarily know what impact it has. I don't necessarily know
like what difference it makes. I don't know how we
measure it. Ye, I don't know how we follow that.
(31:22):
I don't know how we follow the echo. And I
also don't know if, like the artists who are making
the anti ice statements are necessarily big enough and powerful
enough to then like have the impact we would want
them to have.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, I think it comes back to, like, well, why
are you doing it? You know, are you doing it
so the people who are listening to you in this case,
music feel you know, like it's like a lifeline and
so so many ways, Like music has this healing power
to it. So if you're an artist and you're creating
(32:01):
music and that has this political message, or you're thinking of,
you know, your community that's currently being targeted, what kind
of I think it's more of the personal impact that
that can have on someone who you know, maybe their
family was just attained, maybe they're going through an immigration process,
(32:21):
you know, with their family, and so it's more of
like that personal impact that maybe can't be measured through
you know, quantity and through like this data of the impact,
but more so like the healing personal how impact that
music can have.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, I agree with you. So I think that like
when we're asking artists to take a stand and make
a statement, I think that's kind of understanding that the
impact is personal, that it's it's spiritual and it's emotional,
and that what we're asking the artists to do is
not actually to be like an activist. We're actually asking
(33:01):
the artists to like impact policy, rather to impact like
the listening experience for the audience.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
I think there's also too, just like all these historical
examples of artists that you know, we're doing that, and
I think that in some ways there's this yearning or
nostalgia for that type of artist that maybe can't exist
anymore in like a digital age or in this like
(33:30):
late stage capitalism, because there was a time when we
had artists that were making music directly in contradiction of
the state of directly in contradiction of like dictators, and
so there was a period where that was actually not
(33:53):
an expectation of the artists, but I think something that
artists were inherently doing and being called to do. Of
course not across all genres or even countries, but there
is a tradition in that, and so I feel that
there's also maybe even folks aren't even fully aware that
maybe that's where that yearning and nostalgias coming from, is
(34:16):
that there was a time then when are pop stars,
Maybe not our pop stars, but our artists and musicians
were doing that thing and they're not anymore.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Protest music and roots music, and I think a lot
of those artists were black, black American artists.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
I'm in particular thinking about like Latin American artists, like
in Chile in particular during like when I was speaking
right now, I was thinking about like the Pinochet regime
and the Chilean artists who were making that type of
protest music.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
But yes, also in the United contexts.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, I also think that that like protest music tradition
maybe even predates the concept of the pop star absolutely,
And I think that what a big difference is the
amount of wealth that musicians can now have, Yes, and
perhaps that amount of wealth was not necessarily a reality
(35:13):
for recording artists back in the day and at the time,
and I think that now and not just today, but
I think this has been brewing for the past several decades,
that a musician is not just a musician, but they're
like a brand in and of themselves, and they start
companies and they have products, and they have merch and
(35:34):
thequila lines and restaurants. Scottle Gae has a restaurant. I
went it was fabulous, Promensa. But they have, you know,
their conglomerates in and of themselves, and I don't think
that's always been the reality.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Is that also because you can't be you can't make
money off of one thing anymore because of late stage capitalism,
off of the music alive, you can't, like especially with streaming.
Like maybe before you could earn a living, you could
earn a living, you know, even as a smaller artist,
but now you have to be a brand in order
(36:07):
to diversify your portfolio.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Well yeah, and that's the thing is that the music
is not art just for art's sake that you get
you make the art, you get paid for the art.
The music is a vehicle to sell other things. Yeah, right,
Like if you're not earning a living off of the
music itself. The music is a driver for advertising products.
(36:30):
So I think that, like it's going to be really
hard to have musicians who are leftist vocal activists when
they have a brand, right and they have products to sell. Yeah,
so yeah, once again late stage capitalism. Yeah, it's the
container and it's like, you know, everybody's in the fish bowl. Yeah,
(36:52):
and so can we have nice things? We can both caveats.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, there's lots of caveats, caveats, And I think that that,
for me, is also one of the like.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
You know, for it really does I don't mean this
in like a like I'm.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Just throwing away this word out like I'm throwing this
word out like, but it does feel like a type
of gas lighting that happens when you have Latino artists
on these like really big stages and then and at
the same time you have these nationwide policies that are
harming direct communities that are Latino right or indigenous or
(37:30):
immigrant communities, and so it does feel like this really
weird like gas lighting and crazy making that's happening. That
makes me think of this saying like you love the culture,
but you hate the people right where we can love
the music and the food, but I actually don't really
want to see you and your people actually make it
and do it and like all of the cultural origins
(37:52):
that make this thing that I like, actually don't want
any part of you.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Sure, it's the the dangling of the carrot, right, like
you can have this, you can have this, This is
for you. This is nice, but like over here, we're
abducting your community. So you know, it's back to the
basic question of the episode is like visibility, but at
what cost? You know, visibility, What does it really mean?
(38:21):
What does it really do? How does it help? How
does it hurt? Is it just like, yeah, is it
a placebo? It's not actually a solution to anything. It's
not a cure. It's not getting at like the root.
Cause yeah, it's it makes us feel better in the moment.
But is it fixing anything. I don't think so. But
(38:42):
I also don't think it's supposed to.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Yeah, That's how I felt after the Bad Bunny performance
at the Super Bowl. I felt like, oh man, this
was so energizing and amazing and it made me feel
good and I'm going to harness this power and sorry,
I'm going to harness this energy to like keep going.
It doesn't just like end here like with this feel
good moment, Like how then does this propel me forward
(39:05):
to take action or do some type of change within
my little circle or community. And I think very similar
when we participate in these events, we should think about
them in that way where it doesn't just end here
with this like really beautiful fun celebration and celebration of
music and culture. But then how does it drive me
(39:26):
forward to do the things that I want to do
for my community that will actually have an impact versus
like saying ice out.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, absolutely, it's yeah. Music, dancing, getting together to party
are supposed to be things that like refill our cups
and reinvigorate us and rejuvenate us so that we can
go back to our day to day lives and fight
the good fight. It's not actually the solution, right, so
(39:54):
we can't think of it that way. Yeah, it's just
a show, you know, and it's post to entertain us
and make us happy and give us some doorphins so
that we can go out and like do the work.
That's really I think what it's about. And we can't
expect the artists to do the work. We have to
do the work, like the audience is actually the one
(40:15):
who has to do the work.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, I think we invite the artists to do the work,
you know, with us, but they might not and we
have to be okay with them not accepting that invitation.
And again I think focusing or giving more energy to
the artists that do. I think of like Snow the Product,
who is not at the global superstar level. She is
a would be in relation to gott O. G would
(40:38):
be considered a smaller artist, right, But yeah, she's someone
that's been super vocal making music about the administration and
the theo who votes for Trump? You know she and
she's in the comments of the she's I've seen her
in the comment section when people in particular with the
Mariacci Los Angeles you know conversation, she was like, it's complicit,
(41:01):
you know, and so you have those artists that are
doing it and they want to do it.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Yeah, And then the and then the other question becomes
like and I love the Snow the product. I think
Snow the Product is great and has like a very
wide range of music that she makes. But then but
then I think you ask your every day like music lover,
are you bumping the political tracks, Like, is that what
(41:27):
you're listening to, like when you want to get hype
and when you want to like like catch a vibe,
And the answer is probably know. So this is the
other thing too, is like sometimes I think that like
the music that is ultra political is also not necessarily
the stuff that people like want to listen to, you know.
(41:48):
And I think that like that complicates things as well,
because as an artist, I can see how you would
want to bring politics into your work, But then is
it translating for your listeners for your audience, right?
Speaker 1 (42:03):
That fatigue, that fatigue of it all, Yeah, I mean,
and that's another layer of it, right, That is another
layer of it is well, people are maybe at Coachella
to escape.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
I don't know how those girls. Those tickets are so.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Expensive, of all the festivals so expensive, But yeah, I
mean people do use these types of events as a
form of reprieve from the day to day life, right,
and so yeah, but then also people are energized at
the same time, So I don't know. I mean, we
(42:36):
never claim or believe to have like the answer, and
I think that in all of our conversations it's about
bringing the perspective and then like trying to be best
informed and move forward with that, you know, with with
(42:57):
the cultural critique, if you will.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yeah, and it's just that it's a critique.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Yeah, and it's yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yeah, and I don't know either. I don't know either.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
I don't at all.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
We're just discussing. We're just discussing. But it's important. It's
an important conversation. I think that, you know, like I'll
never forget remember when Bill hook said Beyonce was a terrorist.
I mean, you know, there's always a level of critique.
There's always a layer of critique, you know what.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
I've seen people bring that up again and they were like,
you know what, I was really mad at this.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Bill Hooks was right. Beyonce's a capitalist. Beyonce's a capitalist, and.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
As they all are. I mean they're millionaires, they're billionaires.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
You know, we've said billions of times that we love Beyonce. Right, Yeah,
she's was at the mcgala. She is in community with
the billionaires.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Yeah, of course, you know, and it's like.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
She's someone else that has has made like you know,
pseudo political type of musuals and music and some of
it yes, as political. Some of it is maybe a
little more like pseudo. But you know, then we had
someone like Bell Hiks at the time though was like
absolutely not, like she's not.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
The future feminism and you know what, Bell Hooks was
not wrong.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Maybe we couldn't see it at the time because we
were so I think this was during like the Lemonade
era of Beyonce, so people were really writing for her,
as they continue to do so. But yeah, maybe we
definitely couldn't see it then when when Bell Hooks was
critiquing Beyonce.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Right, So I think you know, it's I think every
artist is going to be at one point or another
if they're big enough taken to task in that way. Yeah,
and especially if they are in some capacity representing or
claiming to represent a marginalized group, you expect to then
be brought to the table. And whether you engage or
(44:56):
not is a different thing. But like that's going to happen.
So what's happening here?
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, And this is the cost of visibility if you
are going to be at this global level, if you're
going to be hyper visible, this is the type of
conversation that is going to be had, not only about you,
but about your work and then how you profit from
the community that you claim to represent.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, it likely will not have an impact on their
business and how they operate and how they conduct themselves,
which is fine, but yeah, but the conversation is going
to happen. It's natural.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Yeah, the cultural critique is maybe maybe will not change
the culture, but it is a part of the cultural conversation.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Yes, culture begets critique and change and you know input,
like culture is created, and so that means that people
have like contributions, and sometimes the contribution is a question
or yeah, criticism, and that's how things move forward, and
that's what we're doing here.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
I remember moving the culture years ago. We were like,
we're not critics. Yes the fuck we are.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
We criticize.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
We are actually cultural critics.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
And I don't think we realized what we were doing
when we were doing it. I think we were just like, yeah, well,
this is analysis, you know, this is what we're doing.
This is what we're talking about. But now, with like
eleven seasons, ten years under our belt, I'm like, oh, yeah,
we have been culturally critiquing everything we've been seeing in
the past decade. And it's been a lot of stuff
that we've seen oh.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah, oh and we've received critiques as well and criticism
because that's part of it too. Like we make something,
we put it out there, it will also invite critique
and criticism. It's just the natural life cycle of creation
and creativity. You can't put something out into the world
and not expect feedback. Like feedback is normal, it's natural.
(46:54):
We welcome it. We are not above it. We're not
immune to it. And I don't necessarily think that like
our audience holds back necessarily.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
They don't.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
They don't. And so we're all like participating in the
same ecosystem here, you know, like we're part of it.
We receive it, we give it out. It's this, it's
it's it's it's flowing absolutely well.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
On that note, thank you for listening to another cap Radio.
We'll catch you next time.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Bessie bus Loca
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