April 8, 2026 • 36 mins
This week, Diosa and Mala discuss Latino representation in media, sparked by backlash over white actress Odessa A'zion being cast as a Latina character in an upcoming A24 film. Together, they review a study conducted by USC's Norman Lear Center, which highlights that Latino-led/Latino-created shows offer a more nuanced representation of Latinidad. (OBVIO!!) They also consider how digital media has lowered the barrier to entry for Latino/Latine talent. Will AI also lower the barrier to entry or is there another risk for bias?
Please note this episode was recorded in early March. And there's some loud background noise at times, sorry!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
A Lama lokamotives. I'm Deosa and I'm Mala. You're listening
to Loca Radio today.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
We're talking about the current landscape of Latinos in media.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Who are Latinos in media?
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Barely? Barely?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
And we need to stop saying the landscape of Latinos
in media, how reckless, reckless, how reckless of us. But
there's been some there's been some happenings, there's been some research,
there's been some upheavals online, especially with regards to casting
of white actresses enrolls written for Latina.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Characters, which is nothing new, by the way, not at.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
All, not at all. It's tail as old as time.
But it's happened again.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yes, And you guys might have seen the uproar around
an actress named Odessa, who is a white actress who
I think people sort of accuse of like exodis, exoda, exodifying,
exotifying herself. She was cast in a role written for
like a character who is like half Mexican.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
She was cast in A twenty four's Deep Cuts. She
was cast as a character named Zoe Gutierrez. Look at
that and immediately swiftly received a lot of backlash for
the casting from people online. Backlash was so strong that
she withdrew and released a statement, you know, apologizing that
(01:28):
she wasn't trying to take a role from a Latina actor.
I mean, it's like kind of that very messy area
where it's like the actor accepting the role, but then
also the casting directors, right, they're never in the public
eye in the same way that the actors are, right,
but they're.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Also at fault.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
There's so many people.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
There's so many factors that are involved in like casting
a film at that level, and there's managers, and there's agents,
and there's producers, and there's the director.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
I mean, there's a.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Lot of people involved, and it took but I think
it just took the actress herself saying I didn't know
about the cultural background of this.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Character, and so she withdrew from the project.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
They've now cast Ariela Barred. She is a Mexican, American
and Jewish actress. She was actually in this past season
of HBO's The Last of Us with Pedro Bascal. She
was one of the characters, a smaller character, but that
was when I first saw her, and she was a
memorable character that something very tragic happens to her, And
(02:35):
so when I saw that she was the replacement, that's
how I clocked her.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I remembered she was in the last of us.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
I see, yeah, So I mean that's cool.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I think really what it's about is something we're going
to talk about in a study that came out recently
from the Norman Lear Center at USC which is about
how few roles there are for Latinos in media.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
And I think that a lot of.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
The uproar around this casting of Odessa has to do
with the limited number of roles. If there was an
abundance of roles, if there was a plethora of roles,
I don't think people would be as upset.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
But because it's so limited, there's so few.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
In number, it's like, how can you give this one
away when we barely have any right?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And I am obviously not in an actor, but I
can imagine how tough it is to be going out
constantly for the same roles as your peers. In some ways,
you know, Latinos are pitted against each other, to like
be in competition with each other because there isn't a
plethora of roles. I can imagine how challenging that must be.
(03:40):
Mentally to be constantly in competition with your peers who
you might be wanting to build community with, but instead
are like being pitted against each other.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Absolutely, I also think that there's prob Again, the study
that we're going to talk about in just a few
minutes also talks about how when there are Latino roles,
there's very little diversity within the Latino roles. Most of
the Latinos you see on screen are very light skinned,
practically white passing in general, and so it becomes even
(04:11):
easier to cast a white actor in these Latino roles because.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
They're basically white Latinos anyways.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
So it's a very messy if there's very few Latino roles,
there's even fewer Afro Latino roles or indigenous roles for
people from Latin America. And we actually spoke to an
og actor, Edward James, almost not that long ago at
the Amaghan Awards, and he talked about the fact that
(04:40):
he is still the only Chicano Mexican American actor to
be nominated for Best Actor in forty years.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
I'm the only one, and I got that nomination for
the Academy Award back.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
In nineteen eighty eight.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
And since then there's been no one else has given
any performance of Emerits me Aword nomination. Something wrong, nothing
has changed.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I remember Edward James almost really reflecting on how could
that be, because it's not for lack of talent, it's
in industry. It's a question of in the industry and
the system right, and how few Latino and Chicano actors
are given the roles or even the decision makers in
the rooms.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And so that definitely stuck with me.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So with all of that in mind, you know, we
want to talk about the current state of media right
for Latinos, how that applies, also, how digital media is
now a new agent of change maybe or just a
new contender in the game. And also I think in
particular Mala your perspective as someone in film school.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, so in my cohort at USC Cinematic Arts, I'm
one of two Latinos in the whole cohort and their cohorts.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
The numbers are only slightly better.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
There might be three or four. And when I was
thinking about this episode, a question that I posed is like,
what is a piece of media like film or television
that we've watched recently with like a Latino actor who's
in the lead or like directed by a Latino director,
and I can and I mean, I mean Del Toro
Frankenstein right is like for me, the most recent one.
(06:27):
But other than that, I can only really think of
like the films that I'm helping to make at school.
Recently I worked I produced a film called Holloman, which
is written directed by Gabby Preciado from New Mexico, with
an all Latino like cast, like a very intentionally brown
skinned Latino cast, and a pretty predominantly Latino crew in
(06:52):
different departments of the crew, which was very cool to be.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
A part of. And this project is a virtual.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Production thee We shot some of it in front of
the led wall at school, some of it in front
of a different led wall in the city of la
and then other parts of the film at like an
apartment location downtown and then on a ranch in Lancaster.
And it's about this mythical kind of like witch creature
(07:20):
called La Lachusa who is like terrorizing this disillusioned queer
drone operator in the future who like has trauma with
his homophobic father.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Okay, Latino futurism, yes, very.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Much so, absolutely, it's a very cool concept, very cool film.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So, you know, I haven't been watching a ton of
Latino led film or television, but I'm really excited to
be part of a production that is Latino led and
Latino created. And it's a Latino story that I think
is not relying on stereotype at all. Again, and it's
(08:00):
very techy, it's very dystopian, it's very futuristic, and it
brings in mythology, but not a mythology that I think
is well known at all.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Well, the two says definitely has not reached the level
of no.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So I was really happy to be a part of that.
And yeah, I think that there's just a lot of
work to do. But you and I know that there
are Latino filmmakers working and making films.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
I think we know them.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
That's why your perspective in some ways can be kind
of skewed, where I'm like, what do you mean? We
know lots of Latino actors and filmmakers and screenwriters.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
You know, Marvin Lemoos just within the last couple of
years directed something for Disney starring Eva Longoria. And then
we have our friends like Molino, Bobabilla and Scarlet Red.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
And Stephanie as soon as fundraising for season two of
and then they wereating.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Roommates and I was in a season of that as well.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So yeah, I mean that the Latino creative community that
we're a part of is very busy, but are we
necessarily it's not real visible.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
No, it's not reflected.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
The creative community that we know is not reflected in
broader Hollywood.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Not yet, at least not yet.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Someone like Marvin I think is definitely breaking through, especially
with like he he uh had penthefied right and Alexander
in the No Good, Terrible, Very Bad.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
I forget the title, what is the girl Trip?
Speaker 3 (09:27):
You were almost there?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I had the road Trip. It's yeah, yeah, you guys know,
you guys know what you're talking about. We went to
the screen and it was really fun. Marvin's doing great
and uh yeah, like people like Molina Bobadilla, who's just
she's been acting for years now and on major titles,
and people are doing a good job. A scarlet Red
was in a commercial with Megan thee Stallion. We're kind
(09:48):
of all over the place, but you have to like
really look for us.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I think someone who has really broken through is Annie Gonzalez.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
She was in Hemphify. Yeah, she was in the Flame
in Ha Cheeto Mo.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
It was recently in this film with Kelly Roland called
Relationship Goals. It's an Amazon Prime video. And she's someone
who local girl, right.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
We went to the.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Hindivide premieres, we met her. We've tried getting her on
some podcast episodes. Timing has never worked out.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
She's very busy.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
She clearly she I think she's someone who has broken
through like mainstream ways.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Cholo man Iguana, who played Blue Beetle Yes.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
I mean, the Latinos are working, and they're working hard,
and whether that's in front of the camera or behind
the camera, above the line or below the line, Like
we are out there and we are putting in the
work at a.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Lot of different levels.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
And I see young filmmakers at school and online just
trying to make work and trying to tell stories and
just trying to create, create, create, And I think that's
really what it takes. Like everyone we just mentioned has
been working non stop years and years and years, us included,
(11:03):
and so whether it's like a YouTube series or it's
something on Netflix, I mean, everyone is.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Trying to get work out there.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And doing it successfully, but the numbers are still real bad.
And I don't know, it's just it's not for lack
of Latino's working and Latinos create, It's just I don't
know that the bubble hasn't exactly versed yet.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
No, so let's get into the study.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
So USC's Norman Lear Center published a study in January
called Balante between Stereotypes and Specificity, and the study focuses
on Latino representation in popular television.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So this study was conducted by a team of researchers,
mostly PhDs, led by Sosdia Glicardin Vargas Cassenya A.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Corovkova, Dana Weinstein, and Erica L.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Rosenthal. So, from the study itself, which you can find online,
the researchers conducted a content analysis of the top twenty
US broadcast programs with Latino characters in the twenty twenty
four to twenty twenty five television season. So this is
very much broadcast television. They were examining quote diversity, heritage,
(12:21):
cultural specificity, and race centrality, meaning the degree to which
race and ethnicity were central to a character's storyline. And
ultimately they wanted to analyze how these factors intersect with stereotypes.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
And this is what they called their broad sample.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Then separately, they did a deep dive into eight quote
Latino led shows featuring Latino main characters, half of which
were quote Latino created. And I think it's important to
note that they put in quotation marks Latino.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Lead and Latino created.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
It's a sort of category that means that at least
or at more than half of behind the camera talent, directors, producers, showrunners,
writers identified as Latino. So there's not some like a
super official stamp or designation, but the way that they
identify Latino letter, Latino created is Okay, at least half
(13:18):
behind the camera I.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Identified as Latino, like above the line talent.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
That's one of the barometers in some way for it
to be considered Latino letter Latino created.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, Like at least what they're saying in this particular study, Yeah,
that's how we're defining Latino Latino created more than half
behind the camera talent.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Right, And so within the broad sample, Latino characters accounted
for only six percent of all roles, even though shows
based in Los Angeles featured twice as many Latino characters.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
As though said.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Outside of LA, representation was still way below population level
for both the city of LA and the entire country.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
That reminds me of that show that just came out
recently this past year, is I Love La?
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Oh yeah, the Rachel sent out.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah, and we don't have to get into that, but
I do know that that was a very big critique, right,
how can you make a show about La without having
Latinos in the cast.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
But yeah, we're not going to dive into the specifics
of that show.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Also, I didn't like the show at all. I couldn't
watch it.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I tried, I did dry. Yeah, I couldn't do it.
It was it was a hard watch.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I didn't try. That's fair, Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
And look like rachel s note is also like a
young woman up and coming. It's hard for her too
to get work made, for anybody to get work made,
And like lead a show is like a feat is
like an awesome thing.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
So I think that's also important to talk about.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
But within the context of the study and the conversation, Yeah,
there were no Latinos.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
In the show.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah, I mean, and that's to this to this point,
right to the study. I mean, that's a clear example.
In this study, they also found the diversity among Latino
characters was lacking and cultural specificity was rare.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
For example, within the broad sample of shows, there was
only one queer Latino character, and only three of these
Latino characters had darker skin tones.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Most Latinos portrayed were middle class characters, and out of
sixty nine total characters, only eighteen had heritage tied to
a specific Latin American nation, and most were Mexicans.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
So, for the most part, in this broad sample of
broadcast TV six percent Latino characters, most of them had
no specific Latino cultural heritage. They were just like broad
stroke latinotm right, right right, just like.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
I don't know, you'r beige Pan Latin. It's Pan Latin. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I think this is something that continues to be true
and historically has been true, is that criminality was the
most most prominent theme in this broad sample. In the study,
one in four Latinos were depicted as career criminals.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Not new, nothing new, not new, it's uh, it's again
tales all this time.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, I mean, I've been our favorite, Like legendary Latino
actors Mexican American actors broken because they were portrayed as criminals.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah, going back to Edward James and Danie Theircoe.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Yeah yeah, American me all that good stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, American iconic film, but also a very hard watch, Yes,
very tough watch.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
But yeah, criminality and Latinidad on screen, very.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Very synonymous for a very long time, and that has
not changed according to this study. So then, so that
was the broad the broad sample of just like everything
on broadcast television.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Then the researchers of.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
The study did a deep dive into the Latino let
and Latino created shows and they found something a little
different than in the broad sample.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
When they looked at Latino led and Latino.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Created shows, they found that Latino led shows featured nuanced
portrayals of pressing social issues, cultural specificity, and complex explorations.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Of Latino identities, and this.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Was particularly true for shows that were also Latino created.
Latino led content they found tackled stereotypes with humor, and
among these Latino created shows in particular more often centered
the perspectives of Latino characters.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
So it seems that.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
When Latino's lead and create shows, there's fewer stereotypes there's
more specificity, there's more nuanced conversations, and the storylines, there's
presentations of social issues, and stories are presented from the
perspectives of the Latino characters themselves. And like, so water
is wet, So water is wet, and the sky is blue.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yes, I mean, and this is this is not I'm
not poking at the study. I just these are things
that we inherently know, right as people, as Latino Latina women, right,
we know that.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
To be true.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
And I love that there's this inclusion of in the
research that the Latino led content tackled stereotypes with humor,
because as a collective, as a people, we do tackle
a lot of very serious issues with humor, right, or
something very serious happens, but we have to make a
little joke after to light in the mood, to kind
(18:28):
of release that heaviness.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
And so.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
It's no surprise, but it's also really good to see
that this was also included as part of the research
in the analysis.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Oh absolutely, And so you know, the study comes to
the conclusion that there is great untapped potential for Latino
led and Latino created content that a lot of the
problems we see in stereotypes in the broad sample, in
the criminality in Latin, that in the flattened port trails,
(19:00):
and the Pan Latin identities, that those problems seem to
be solved and cleared up when the shows are led
and made by latinos, all of a sudden, those problems
don't really.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Seem to be there anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Very interesting, fascinating, fascinating, fascinating actually, and I think like
studies like this are really important, right because we have
like the UCLA Hollywood Diversity Study, there's this study as well,
because it quantifies, it quantifies the things that we already
know and that we feel as viewers and then as
(19:36):
people working in media, that there's this inherent knowing, there's witnessing,
the lack of representation, the lack of jobs.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
And then to have a study you.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Can sometimes gaslight yourself, right, You can sometimes feel like, wait, are.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
There not enough jobs? Is there enough representation?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
And then you have a study like this that reinforces like, no,
this is still an issue in This is not something
that I'm making up in my head. I'm not making
myself out to be a victim. This is still a
systemic problem. And that is why studies like this are important.
Don't go anywhere, look amotives, We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
It's not enough to just have like a character in
a show.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It seems that what the study is also saying is
that we need Latino let and Latino created shows, like
we need behind the camera talent. We need directors, we
need producers, we need writers, we need showrunners who identify
as latinos, because the people behind the camera are actually
shaping what you see in front of the camera. Absolutely,
(20:48):
the actors bring it to life. The actors give face
and give voice to the story. But the story is
created and crafted by the behind the camera crew. And
so we see on camera representations that are stereotypical, that
are flat, that are offensive. It's not the fault of
the actor that story, that image is being crafted by
(21:11):
whoever is behind the camera, and it's never just one person,
it's a whole crew of people bringing it together. So
the study is really pointing to the power of behind
the camera storytellers and why we need Latinos in those roles.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And what are some of the recommendations that we get
from the study.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
The study recommends six key points.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Number one, we should aim for inclusion of one Latino
character for every five roles to reflect reality, period like,
just to reflect reality, not even reality of la or
of America.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Just to reflect reality. Yes we are here. One in
five characters should be Latino.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Two we should diversify those Latino characters so they can't
just be Pan Latin just some vague Beijish, Brownish, spanglishy person.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Right where are they from?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
What is their culturally specific background. Three we should exercise
caution around depictions of Latinos as criminals, drug traffickers, or
members of organized crime, particularly within smaller roles, which is
where I think a lot of this is happening.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
And the fourth recommendation is to capitalize on the diversity
of Latino actors when appropriate by encouraging them to.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Bring their lived experience into roles. Yes, I think that's
a great recommendation.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I think actors can embody so many different characters. I
mean some of the most famous actors, the Marlon Brandos and.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
The Sean Penn's and what have you like.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
These people are able to completely transform the GO method
in general. Like these actors that we love that have
put out such great work, they can completely transform from
role to role and be almost unrecognizable. But often you know,
they're still playing a character within their own cultural or
ethnic group, and so they're pulling from their own lived experience.
(23:11):
Even when they're transforming and playing a character whose life
is so different from their own, there's still some familiarity
because they're still white people playing white.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
People, Which is why we should be casting Latino people
Latinos in Latino roles.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
If it's a historical figure that is from Chile, then
that person should also be. Ideally, the actor portraying this
person should also be Chilean or at the very least
a Latino actor.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yes, South American of some kind, for so many reasons,
but also because like accent matters and Spanish accents can
change so much from country to country and region to region,
and that can really pull you out of a performance
if they don't sound like the character that they're.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Supposed to sound like. And of course there's like.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Voice coaches and accent coaches and things like that, but
there's millions of.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Us from all over, so there's like plenty to choose from.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
We also another recommendation is to prioritize Latino talent behind
the camera. And finally, I think this note is actually
for everyone, including Latino audiences, Latino creators and filmmakers.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
That Latino led media is not just for Latinos.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
So even if we make a film that's a Latino story,
Latino lead, behind the camera, in front of the camera,
Latino created.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
We are making something that's for the world. Yes, and
the goal is then.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
For everybody to see it and for it to show everywhere.
And I think for white like studio executives, if somebody
is pitching a Latino led or Latino created story, it's
also in theory for everybody, for all audiences.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yes, this reminds me of this is not film and television, well,
it is television.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
This reminds me of bad money super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Performance right, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, received a lot
of praise. I talked about it on a podcast episode
with Alana Casanova, Berga's host of La Brega, But you know,
there was also a lot of backtalk from conservatives.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Meggan Kelly was being interviewed by Pierce Morgan.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
The whole show in Spanish is a middle finger to
the rest of America. Who gives a damn that we
have forty forty million Spanish speakers in the United States,
we have three hundred and ten millions who don't speak
a lick of Spanish. This is supposed to be a
unifying event for the country, not for the Latinos, not
(25:49):
for one small group, but for the country.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
And this will stay in my head for the rest
of my life.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And to this point, right, that that was not film, right,
but to this point, that Latino led media is not
just for Latinos. Like that performance, Yes it was centered
for us, Yes it was centered for Puerto Ricans, but.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
It was globally for the world to enjoy.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
So that just little that anecdote reminds me of this recommendation.
The Latino led media is not just for Latinos, It's
for everyone. We often have had to watch films that
are white lead, predominantly white cast, and we find things
to connect with, to feel represented by, like we're not like, oh,
(26:34):
I can't watch it, Like that's predominantly what we've actually seen,
what's been normalized to be popular media. They can do
it too, they will be okay, they will enjoy it.
Just fucking watch it.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Just watch it. And we don't have to talk about
this because you already talked about this. America yes, she
does say that.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
She's like she's like, I know, it's part of America,
so fucking annoying.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I'm screaming, very sensitive, very sensitive this lady. And I
can't believe she's still yapping, Like she's she's still yapping.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
She's been around for so long.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
She is actually one of those like Gayette.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yes, actually, and even Piers Morgan I think, was like, whoa,
it's weird when these like conservative white men are like
speaking reason.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yeah, it's very strange when like Tucker Carlson did that
recently in an interview with Mike Couldbee. I know, and
this is not to co sign him or Pierce Morgan,
but it's just very strange when these white conservative men
become like voices of reasons.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Yeah, for like a specific topic. Yeah, it's very scary.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
That's how you know it's really far gone is they're
like they're freaking out over how freaked out everybody is.
Like they used to be the farthest right voices and
now they're feeling very middle of the road.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
And I think even they don't really know what to
make of all of exactly exactly, and this is like.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Not to use a very gendered patriarchal term. But the
hysterics with which like white conserve conservative women, you know,
are like conducting themselves with It's this like white women's
hysteria that is on full display. They're on a rampage,
and it's just so bizarre.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
From Megan Kelly to Christina who was just fired.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Was it worth it?
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Girl, I've been wanting to say that all day.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Was it worth selling yourself? But any who, I'm excited
to no longer see her at the airport.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yes on the screens, yeah, same, yes, because.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
She was all plastered all over the airport.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Right before you go through TSA that there's her face.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
And wearing hoop earrings. I know, I know, I can't.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
All right, So let's talk about the future, the future
of Latino Latini Hollywood.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Don't go anywhere, look on motives. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
So I think that something else that is like tangential
to this study that we know to be true is
that Latinos might be a tiny, tiny.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Percentage of on camera rolls and.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Above the line filmmakers in film and television, but Latinos
are fucking killing it in the digital space. I mean,
from YouTube to TikTok to the podcasting space, like Latino influencers,
Latino podcasters, Latino channels, beauty gurus I mean are huge
and have built giant platforms and huge audiences. And I
(29:46):
think it speaks to when Latinos are creating it and
leading it, it can like really take off and it
can resonate and the audiences will come.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
If the Latinos built it, the audiences will come.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
So as we see all this chatter about how digital
is outperforming broadcast, is the future of Latino Hollywood digital?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Maybe do we just look to the digital space? It
feels Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
I think for Latino's Latina LATINX folks to really thrive
in digital media, which they are, is to be okay
with not being a part of the inner circle because
I think Hollywood, for so many actors, filmmakers' creatives, of course,
is aspirational. It is it means something that you want
(30:34):
an oscar, that you won an Academy award, that you were.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Let in by the gatekeepers, right.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
But I think if you're performing and you're actually monetizing
on digital media, you know, it does beg the question
like which do you try to do more of?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
You know, do you continue to do the digital in
hopes that it'll lead you to legacy Hollywood or do
you just go all in where you own everything and
that's that's yours for the keeping.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Absolutely, it's a big question.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
And I think AI is part of this question because AI,
first of all, every week there's a new tool, like
it's changing so rapidly, and it's changing creativity, it's changing
content creation, it's changing filmmaking. At the same time, the
biggest barrier to entry is money. It's financial.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
It's very expensive to make a film, even a short film.
It's very expensive to make a TV show.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I mean, in my producing class right now, our professor
showed us the budgets for like a thirty minute television
pilot that he made years ago. Now this was like
fifteen years ago. And he showed us the budget for
the thirty minute pilot and nothing crazy, like a corporate
drama set in an office in Riverside. It was a
(31:56):
three million dollar budget, you know, and that's one episode
of TV. Right And even the films that we make
at school, the shorts that are like fifteen to twenty
minutes long, these are forty thousand dollars budgets for student
films where nobody is getting paid. So if we were
making these not at school, where everyone was getting baid, yeah,
(32:19):
we'd be talking about millions of dollars. So the barrier
to entry is very high for film, for television, really
for anything on video. So then the question with AI is,
even though it's creepy, even though it's invasive, could the
tools associated with AI, which bring down the cost of
(32:41):
production actually like increase our chances of making work that
can help us to break into the industry.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
These are questions that I think.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
We all have to ask ourselves, and that people like
the researchers at the Norman Lear Center will eventually have
to start taking in to account and studying when as
the years go by.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Right right, I mean, there's AI actors, there's AI hosts,
there's AI influencers. Does does an AI Latina influencer actor
already exist?
Speaker 3 (33:14):
You know, like an AI character that is written coded.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
To be Latina Latino? Does that character already exist? And
then how will that impede maybe future roles if at all?
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
So, like and at school, like even our editing professor
was showing us like shorts and like films that have
been made using entirely AI generated on camera actors. So
then the question becomes, if people start making films using
AI generated actors, will those people prompt the AI to
(33:50):
make Latino AI characters or will they all we prompted
to create white characters.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
So there is studies of how the algorithm is racist.
It's coded by white men, created in some ways to
be racist. Right, this intangible thing, but it's still knowledgeable.
And so is the default for an AI actor unprompted
already white?
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Probably yes?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Right?
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Probably?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (34:17):
And so this is something else is.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Like when we think of traditional filmmaking, going back.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
To Odessa and all of that, you have.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Directors, producers, agents, managers, casting agents already selecting for white people, right,
and when it comes to like an AI generated actor,
those same people will likely still prompt for white people.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
And it does go back.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
To who's behind the camera, right, who even if there's
fewer people behind the camera, is still who is that person?
Speaker 4 (34:54):
What is that team?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
And if there's not latinos prompting the AI, then I
doubt about what's gonna be generated is anything other than white?
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Yeah, there's a lot to consider.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Much to consider, but we still think the future is bright,
and we think it's gonna be okay.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
It's gonna be okay.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
As long as we keep creating and we keep making things.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
For ourselves, for our community, for the world, it will
be okay. The arts will keep us going.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yes, the arts will keep us going. Support the arts,
support us, support us, support us. We're trying, and yeah,
thank you for listening.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Thank you for listening to another. We'll catch you next time.
The See Thoughts Local
A Lama lokamotives. I'm Deosa and I'm Mala. You're listening
to Loca Radio today.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
We're talking about the current landscape of Latinos in media.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Who are Latinos in media?
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Barely? Barely?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
And we need to stop saying the landscape of Latinos
in media, how reckless, reckless, how reckless of us. But
there's been some there's been some happenings, there's been some research,
there's been some upheavals online, especially with regards to casting
of white actresses enrolls written for Latina.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Characters, which is nothing new, by the way, not at.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
All, not at all. It's tail as old as time.
But it's happened again.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yes, And you guys might have seen the uproar around
an actress named Odessa, who is a white actress who
I think people sort of accuse of like exodis, exoda, exodifying,
exotifying herself. She was cast in a role written for
like a character who is like half Mexican.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
She was cast in A twenty four's Deep Cuts. She
was cast as a character named Zoe Gutierrez. Look at
that and immediately swiftly received a lot of backlash for
the casting from people online. Backlash was so strong that
she withdrew and released a statement, you know, apologizing that
(01:28):
she wasn't trying to take a role from a Latina actor.
I mean, it's like kind of that very messy area
where it's like the actor accepting the role, but then
also the casting directors, right, they're never in the public
eye in the same way that the actors are, right,
but they're.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Also at fault.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
There's so many people.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
There's so many factors that are involved in like casting
a film at that level, and there's managers, and there's agents,
and there's producers, and there's the director.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
I mean, there's a.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Lot of people involved, and it took but I think
it just took the actress herself saying I didn't know
about the cultural background of this.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Character, and so she withdrew from the project.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
They've now cast Ariela Barred. She is a Mexican, American
and Jewish actress. She was actually in this past season
of HBO's The Last of Us with Pedro Bascal. She
was one of the characters, a smaller character, but that
was when I first saw her, and she was a
memorable character that something very tragic happens to her, And
(02:35):
so when I saw that she was the replacement, that's
how I clocked her.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I remembered she was in the last of us.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
I see, yeah, So I mean that's cool.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I think really what it's about is something we're going
to talk about in a study that came out recently
from the Norman Lear Center at USC which is about
how few roles there are for Latinos in media.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
And I think that a lot of.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
The uproar around this casting of Odessa has to do
with the limited number of roles. If there was an
abundance of roles, if there was a plethora of roles,
I don't think people would be as upset.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
But because it's so limited, there's so few.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
In number, it's like, how can you give this one
away when we barely have any right?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And I am obviously not in an actor, but I
can imagine how tough it is to be going out
constantly for the same roles as your peers. In some ways,
you know, Latinos are pitted against each other, to like
be in competition with each other because there isn't a
plethora of roles. I can imagine how challenging that must be.
(03:40):
Mentally to be constantly in competition with your peers who
you might be wanting to build community with, but instead
are like being pitted against each other.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Absolutely, I also think that there's prob Again, the study
that we're going to talk about in just a few
minutes also talks about how when there are Latino roles,
there's very little diversity within the Latino roles. Most of
the Latinos you see on screen are very light skinned,
practically white passing in general, and so it becomes even
(04:11):
easier to cast a white actor in these Latino roles because.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
They're basically white Latinos anyways.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
So it's a very messy if there's very few Latino roles,
there's even fewer Afro Latino roles or indigenous roles for
people from Latin America. And we actually spoke to an
og actor, Edward James, almost not that long ago at
the Amaghan Awards, and he talked about the fact that
(04:40):
he is still the only Chicano Mexican American actor to
be nominated for Best Actor in forty years.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
I'm the only one, and I got that nomination for
the Academy Award back.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
In nineteen eighty eight.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
And since then there's been no one else has given
any performance of Emerits me Aword nomination. Something wrong, nothing
has changed.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I remember Edward James almost really reflecting on how could
that be, because it's not for lack of talent, it's
in industry. It's a question of in the industry and
the system right, and how few Latino and Chicano actors
are given the roles or even the decision makers in
the rooms.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And so that definitely stuck with me.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So with all of that in mind, you know, we
want to talk about the current state of media right
for Latinos, how that applies, also, how digital media is
now a new agent of change maybe or just a
new contender in the game. And also I think in
particular Mala your perspective as someone in film school.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, so in my cohort at USC Cinematic Arts, I'm
one of two Latinos in the whole cohort and their cohorts.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
The numbers are only slightly better.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
There might be three or four. And when I was
thinking about this episode, a question that I posed is like,
what is a piece of media like film or television
that we've watched recently with like a Latino actor who's
in the lead or like directed by a Latino director,
and I can and I mean, I mean Del Toro
Frankenstein right is like for me, the most recent one.
(06:27):
But other than that, I can only really think of
like the films that I'm helping to make at school.
Recently I worked I produced a film called Holloman, which
is written directed by Gabby Preciado from New Mexico, with
an all Latino like cast, like a very intentionally brown
skinned Latino cast, and a pretty predominantly Latino crew in
(06:52):
different departments of the crew, which was very cool to be.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
A part of. And this project is a virtual.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Production thee We shot some of it in front of
the led wall at school, some of it in front
of a different led wall in the city of la
and then other parts of the film at like an
apartment location downtown and then on a ranch in Lancaster.
And it's about this mythical kind of like witch creature
(07:20):
called La Lachusa who is like terrorizing this disillusioned queer
drone operator in the future who like has trauma with
his homophobic father.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Okay, Latino futurism, yes, very.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Much so, absolutely, it's a very cool concept, very cool film.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So, you know, I haven't been watching a ton of
Latino led film or television, but I'm really excited to
be part of a production that is Latino led and
Latino created. And it's a Latino story that I think
is not relying on stereotype at all. Again, and it's
(08:00):
very techy, it's very dystopian, it's very futuristic, and it
brings in mythology, but not a mythology that I think
is well known at all.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Well, the two says definitely has not reached the level
of no.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So I was really happy to be a part of that.
And yeah, I think that there's just a lot of
work to do. But you and I know that there
are Latino filmmakers working and making films.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
I think we know them.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
That's why your perspective in some ways can be kind
of skewed, where I'm like, what do you mean? We
know lots of Latino actors and filmmakers and screenwriters.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
You know, Marvin Lemoos just within the last couple of
years directed something for Disney starring Eva Longoria. And then
we have our friends like Molino, Bobabilla and Scarlet Red.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
And Stephanie as soon as fundraising for season two of
and then they wereating.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Roommates and I was in a season of that as well.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So yeah, I mean that the Latino creative community that
we're a part of is very busy, but are we
necessarily it's not real visible.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
No, it's not reflected.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
The creative community that we know is not reflected in
broader Hollywood.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Not yet, at least not yet.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Someone like Marvin I think is definitely breaking through, especially
with like he he uh had penthefied right and Alexander
in the No Good, Terrible, Very Bad.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
I forget the title, what is the girl Trip?
Speaker 3 (09:27):
You were almost there?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I had the road Trip. It's yeah, yeah, you guys know,
you guys know what you're talking about. We went to
the screen and it was really fun. Marvin's doing great
and uh yeah, like people like Molina Bobadilla, who's just
she's been acting for years now and on major titles,
and people are doing a good job. A scarlet Red
was in a commercial with Megan thee Stallion. We're kind
(09:48):
of all over the place, but you have to like
really look for us.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I think someone who has really broken through is Annie Gonzalez.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
She was in Hemphify. Yeah, she was in the Flame
in Ha Cheeto Mo.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
It was recently in this film with Kelly Roland called
Relationship Goals. It's an Amazon Prime video. And she's someone
who local girl, right.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
We went to the.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Hindivide premieres, we met her. We've tried getting her on
some podcast episodes. Timing has never worked out.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
She's very busy.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
She clearly she I think she's someone who has broken
through like mainstream ways.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Cholo man Iguana, who played Blue Beetle Yes.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
I mean, the Latinos are working, and they're working hard,
and whether that's in front of the camera or behind
the camera, above the line or below the line, Like
we are out there and we are putting in the
work at a.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Lot of different levels.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
And I see young filmmakers at school and online just
trying to make work and trying to tell stories and
just trying to create, create, create, And I think that's
really what it takes. Like everyone we just mentioned has
been working non stop years and years and years, us included,
(11:03):
and so whether it's like a YouTube series or it's
something on Netflix, I mean, everyone is.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Trying to get work out there.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And doing it successfully, but the numbers are still real bad.
And I don't know, it's just it's not for lack
of Latino's working and Latinos create, It's just I don't
know that the bubble hasn't exactly versed yet.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
No, so let's get into the study.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
So USC's Norman Lear Center published a study in January
called Balante between Stereotypes and Specificity, and the study focuses
on Latino representation in popular television.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So this study was conducted by a team of researchers,
mostly PhDs, led by Sosdia Glicardin Vargas Cassenya A.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Corovkova, Dana Weinstein, and Erica L.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Rosenthal. So, from the study itself, which you can find online,
the researchers conducted a content analysis of the top twenty
US broadcast programs with Latino characters in the twenty twenty
four to twenty twenty five television season. So this is
very much broadcast television. They were examining quote diversity, heritage,
(12:21):
cultural specificity, and race centrality, meaning the degree to which
race and ethnicity were central to a character's storyline. And
ultimately they wanted to analyze how these factors intersect with stereotypes.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
And this is what they called their broad sample.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Then separately, they did a deep dive into eight quote
Latino led shows featuring Latino main characters, half of which
were quote Latino created. And I think it's important to
note that they put in quotation marks Latino.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Lead and Latino created.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
It's a sort of category that means that at least
or at more than half of behind the camera talent, directors, producers, showrunners,
writers identified as Latino. So there's not some like a
super official stamp or designation, but the way that they
identify Latino letter, Latino created is Okay, at least half
(13:18):
behind the camera I.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Identified as Latino, like above the line talent.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
That's one of the barometers in some way for it
to be considered Latino letter Latino created.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, Like at least what they're saying in this particular study, Yeah,
that's how we're defining Latino Latino created more than half
behind the camera talent.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Right, And so within the broad sample, Latino characters accounted
for only six percent of all roles, even though shows
based in Los Angeles featured twice as many Latino characters.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
As though said.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Outside of LA, representation was still way below population level
for both the city of LA and the entire country.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
That reminds me of that show that just came out
recently this past year, is I Love La?
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Oh yeah, the Rachel sent out.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah, and we don't have to get into that, but
I do know that that was a very big critique, right,
how can you make a show about La without having
Latinos in the cast.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
But yeah, we're not going to dive into the specifics
of that show.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Also, I didn't like the show at all. I couldn't
watch it.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I tried, I did dry. Yeah, I couldn't do it.
It was it was a hard watch.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I didn't try. That's fair, Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
And look like rachel s note is also like a
young woman up and coming. It's hard for her too
to get work made, for anybody to get work made,
And like lead a show is like a feat is
like an awesome thing.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
So I think that's also important to talk about.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
But within the context of the study and the conversation, Yeah,
there were no Latinos.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
In the show.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah, I mean, and that's to this to this point,
right to the study. I mean, that's a clear example.
In this study, they also found the diversity among Latino
characters was lacking and cultural specificity was rare.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
For example, within the broad sample of shows, there was
only one queer Latino character, and only three of these
Latino characters had darker skin tones.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Most Latinos portrayed were middle class characters, and out of
sixty nine total characters, only eighteen had heritage tied to
a specific Latin American nation, and most were Mexicans.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
So, for the most part, in this broad sample of
broadcast TV six percent Latino characters, most of them had
no specific Latino cultural heritage. They were just like broad
stroke latinotm right, right right, just like.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
I don't know, you'r beige Pan Latin. It's Pan Latin. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I think this is something that continues to be true
and historically has been true, is that criminality was the
most most prominent theme in this broad sample. In the study,
one in four Latinos were depicted as career criminals.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Not new, nothing new, not new, it's uh, it's again
tales all this time.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, I mean, I've been our favorite, Like legendary Latino
actors Mexican American actors broken because they were portrayed as criminals.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah, going back to Edward James and Danie Theircoe.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Yeah yeah, American me all that good stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, American iconic film, but also a very hard watch, Yes,
very tough watch.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
But yeah, criminality and Latinidad on screen, very.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Very synonymous for a very long time, and that has
not changed according to this study. So then, so that
was the broad the broad sample of just like everything
on broadcast television.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Then the researchers of.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
The study did a deep dive into the Latino let
and Latino created shows and they found something a little
different than in the broad sample.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
When they looked at Latino led and Latino.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Created shows, they found that Latino led shows featured nuanced
portrayals of pressing social issues, cultural specificity, and complex explorations.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Of Latino identities, and this.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Was particularly true for shows that were also Latino created.
Latino led content they found tackled stereotypes with humor, and
among these Latino created shows in particular more often centered
the perspectives of Latino characters.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
So it seems that.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
When Latino's lead and create shows, there's fewer stereotypes there's
more specificity, there's more nuanced conversations, and the storylines, there's
presentations of social issues, and stories are presented from the
perspectives of the Latino characters themselves. And like, so water
is wet, So water is wet, and the sky is blue.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yes, I mean, and this is this is not I'm
not poking at the study. I just these are things
that we inherently know, right as people, as Latino Latina women, right,
we know that.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
To be true.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
And I love that there's this inclusion of in the
research that the Latino led content tackled stereotypes with humor,
because as a collective, as a people, we do tackle
a lot of very serious issues with humor, right, or
something very serious happens, but we have to make a
little joke after to light in the mood, to kind
(18:28):
of release that heaviness.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
And so.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
It's no surprise, but it's also really good to see
that this was also included as part of the research
in the analysis.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Oh absolutely, And so you know, the study comes to
the conclusion that there is great untapped potential for Latino
led and Latino created content that a lot of the
problems we see in stereotypes in the broad sample, in
the criminality in Latin, that in the flattened port trails,
(19:00):
and the Pan Latin identities, that those problems seem to
be solved and cleared up when the shows are led
and made by latinos, all of a sudden, those problems
don't really.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Seem to be there anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Very interesting, fascinating, fascinating, fascinating actually, and I think like
studies like this are really important, right because we have
like the UCLA Hollywood Diversity Study, there's this study as well,
because it quantifies, it quantifies the things that we already
know and that we feel as viewers and then as
(19:36):
people working in media, that there's this inherent knowing, there's witnessing,
the lack of representation, the lack of jobs.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
And then to have a study you.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Can sometimes gaslight yourself, right, You can sometimes feel like, wait, are.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
There not enough jobs? Is there enough representation?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
And then you have a study like this that reinforces like, no,
this is still an issue in This is not something
that I'm making up in my head. I'm not making
myself out to be a victim. This is still a
systemic problem. And that is why studies like this are important.
Don't go anywhere, look amotives, We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
It's not enough to just have like a character in
a show.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It seems that what the study is also saying is
that we need Latino let and Latino created shows, like
we need behind the camera talent. We need directors, we
need producers, we need writers, we need showrunners who identify
as latinos, because the people behind the camera are actually
shaping what you see in front of the camera. Absolutely,
(20:48):
the actors bring it to life. The actors give face
and give voice to the story. But the story is
created and crafted by the behind the camera crew. And
so we see on camera representations that are stereotypical, that
are flat, that are offensive. It's not the fault of
the actor that story, that image is being crafted by
(21:11):
whoever is behind the camera, and it's never just one person,
it's a whole crew of people bringing it together. So
the study is really pointing to the power of behind
the camera storytellers and why we need Latinos in those roles.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And what are some of the recommendations that we get
from the study.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
The study recommends six key points.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Number one, we should aim for inclusion of one Latino
character for every five roles to reflect reality, period like,
just to reflect reality, not even reality of la or
of America.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Just to reflect reality. Yes we are here. One in
five characters should be Latino.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Two we should diversify those Latino characters so they can't
just be Pan Latin just some vague Beijish, Brownish, spanglishy person.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Right where are they from?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
What is their culturally specific background. Three we should exercise
caution around depictions of Latinos as criminals, drug traffickers, or
members of organized crime, particularly within smaller roles, which is
where I think a lot of this is happening.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
And the fourth recommendation is to capitalize on the diversity
of Latino actors when appropriate by encouraging them to.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Bring their lived experience into roles. Yes, I think that's
a great recommendation.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I think actors can embody so many different characters. I
mean some of the most famous actors, the Marlon Brandos and.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
The Sean Penn's and what have you like.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
These people are able to completely transform the GO method
in general. Like these actors that we love that have
put out such great work, they can completely transform from
role to role and be almost unrecognizable. But often you know,
they're still playing a character within their own cultural or
ethnic group, and so they're pulling from their own lived experience.
(23:11):
Even when they're transforming and playing a character whose life
is so different from their own, there's still some familiarity
because they're still white people playing white.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
People, Which is why we should be casting Latino people
Latinos in Latino roles.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
If it's a historical figure that is from Chile, then
that person should also be. Ideally, the actor portraying this
person should also be Chilean or at the very least
a Latino actor.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yes, South American of some kind, for so many reasons,
but also because like accent matters and Spanish accents can
change so much from country to country and region to region,
and that can really pull you out of a performance
if they don't sound like the character that they're.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Supposed to sound like. And of course there's like.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Voice coaches and accent coaches and things like that, but
there's millions of.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Us from all over, so there's like plenty to choose from.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
We also another recommendation is to prioritize Latino talent behind
the camera. And finally, I think this note is actually
for everyone, including Latino audiences, Latino creators and filmmakers.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
That Latino led media is not just for Latinos.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
So even if we make a film that's a Latino story,
Latino lead, behind the camera, in front of the camera,
Latino created.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
We are making something that's for the world. Yes, and
the goal is then.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
For everybody to see it and for it to show everywhere.
And I think for white like studio executives, if somebody
is pitching a Latino led or Latino created story, it's
also in theory for everybody, for all audiences.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yes, this reminds me of this is not film and television, well,
it is television.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
This reminds me of bad money super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Performance right, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, received a lot
of praise. I talked about it on a podcast episode
with Alana Casanova, Berga's host of La Brega, But you know,
there was also a lot of backtalk from conservatives.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Meggan Kelly was being interviewed by Pierce Morgan.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
The whole show in Spanish is a middle finger to
the rest of America. Who gives a damn that we
have forty forty million Spanish speakers in the United States,
we have three hundred and ten millions who don't speak
a lick of Spanish. This is supposed to be a
unifying event for the country, not for the Latinos, not
(25:49):
for one small group, but for the country.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
And this will stay in my head for the rest
of my life.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And to this point, right, that that was not film, right,
but to this point, that Latino led media is not
just for Latinos. Like that performance, Yes it was centered
for us, Yes it was centered for Puerto Ricans, but.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
It was globally for the world to enjoy.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
So that just little that anecdote reminds me of this recommendation.
The Latino led media is not just for Latinos, It's
for everyone. We often have had to watch films that
are white lead, predominantly white cast, and we find things
to connect with, to feel represented by, like we're not like, oh,
(26:34):
I can't watch it, Like that's predominantly what we've actually seen,
what's been normalized to be popular media. They can do
it too, they will be okay, they will enjoy it.
Just fucking watch it.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Just watch it. And we don't have to talk about
this because you already talked about this. America yes, she
does say that.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
She's like she's like, I know, it's part of America,
so fucking annoying.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I'm screaming, very sensitive, very sensitive this lady. And I
can't believe she's still yapping, Like she's she's still yapping.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
She's been around for so long.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
She is actually one of those like Gayette.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yes, actually, and even Piers Morgan I think, was like, whoa,
it's weird when these like conservative white men are like
speaking reason.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yeah, it's very strange when like Tucker Carlson did that
recently in an interview with Mike Couldbee. I know, and
this is not to co sign him or Pierce Morgan,
but it's just very strange when these white conservative men
become like voices of reasons.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Yeah, for like a specific topic. Yeah, it's very scary.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
That's how you know it's really far gone is they're
like they're freaking out over how freaked out everybody is.
Like they used to be the farthest right voices and
now they're feeling very middle of the road.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
And I think even they don't really know what to
make of all of exactly exactly, and this is like.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Not to use a very gendered patriarchal term. But the
hysterics with which like white conserve conservative women, you know,
are like conducting themselves with It's this like white women's
hysteria that is on full display. They're on a rampage,
and it's just so bizarre.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
From Megan Kelly to Christina who was just fired.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Was it worth it?
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Girl, I've been wanting to say that all day.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Was it worth selling yourself? But any who, I'm excited
to no longer see her at the airport.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yes on the screens, yeah, same, yes, because.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
She was all plastered all over the airport.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Right before you go through TSA that there's her face.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
And wearing hoop earrings. I know, I know, I can't.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
All right, So let's talk about the future, the future
of Latino Latini Hollywood.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Don't go anywhere, look on motives. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
So I think that something else that is like tangential
to this study that we know to be true is
that Latinos might be a tiny, tiny.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Percentage of on camera rolls and.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Above the line filmmakers in film and television, but Latinos
are fucking killing it in the digital space. I mean,
from YouTube to TikTok to the podcasting space, like Latino influencers,
Latino podcasters, Latino channels, beauty gurus I mean are huge
and have built giant platforms and huge audiences. And I
(29:46):
think it speaks to when Latinos are creating it and
leading it, it can like really take off and it
can resonate and the audiences will come.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
If the Latinos built it, the audiences will come.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
So as we see all this chatter about how digital
is outperforming broadcast, is the future of Latino Hollywood digital?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Maybe do we just look to the digital space? It
feels Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
I think for Latino's Latina LATINX folks to really thrive
in digital media, which they are, is to be okay
with not being a part of the inner circle because
I think Hollywood, for so many actors, filmmakers' creatives, of course,
is aspirational. It is it means something that you want
(30:34):
an oscar, that you won an Academy award, that you were.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Let in by the gatekeepers, right.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
But I think if you're performing and you're actually monetizing
on digital media, you know, it does beg the question
like which do you try to do more of?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
You know, do you continue to do the digital in
hopes that it'll lead you to legacy Hollywood or do
you just go all in where you own everything and
that's that's yours for the keeping.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Absolutely, it's a big question.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
And I think AI is part of this question because AI,
first of all, every week there's a new tool, like
it's changing so rapidly, and it's changing creativity, it's changing
content creation, it's changing filmmaking. At the same time, the
biggest barrier to entry is money. It's financial.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
It's very expensive to make a film, even a short film.
It's very expensive to make a TV show.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I mean, in my producing class right now, our professor
showed us the budgets for like a thirty minute television
pilot that he made years ago. Now this was like
fifteen years ago. And he showed us the budget for
the thirty minute pilot and nothing crazy, like a corporate
drama set in an office in Riverside. It was a
(31:56):
three million dollar budget, you know, and that's one episode
of TV. Right And even the films that we make
at school, the shorts that are like fifteen to twenty
minutes long, these are forty thousand dollars budgets for student
films where nobody is getting paid. So if we were
making these not at school, where everyone was getting baid, yeah,
(32:19):
we'd be talking about millions of dollars. So the barrier
to entry is very high for film, for television, really
for anything on video. So then the question with AI is,
even though it's creepy, even though it's invasive, could the
tools associated with AI, which bring down the cost of
(32:41):
production actually like increase our chances of making work that
can help us to break into the industry.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
These are questions that I think.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
We all have to ask ourselves, and that people like
the researchers at the Norman Lear Center will eventually have
to start taking in to account and studying when as
the years go by.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Right right, I mean, there's AI actors, there's AI hosts,
there's AI influencers. Does does an AI Latina influencer actor
already exist?
Speaker 3 (33:14):
You know, like an AI character that is written coded.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
To be Latina Latino? Does that character already exist? And
then how will that impede maybe future roles if at all?
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
So, like and at school, like even our editing professor
was showing us like shorts and like films that have
been made using entirely AI generated on camera actors. So
then the question becomes, if people start making films using
AI generated actors, will those people prompt the AI to
(33:50):
make Latino AI characters or will they all we prompted
to create white characters.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
So there is studies of how the algorithm is racist.
It's coded by white men, created in some ways to
be racist. Right, this intangible thing, but it's still knowledgeable.
And so is the default for an AI actor unprompted
already white?
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Probably yes?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Right?
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Probably?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (34:17):
And so this is something else is.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Like when we think of traditional filmmaking, going back.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
To Odessa and all of that, you have.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Directors, producers, agents, managers, casting agents already selecting for white people, right,
and when it comes to like an AI generated actor,
those same people will likely still prompt for white people.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
And it does go back.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
To who's behind the camera, right, who even if there's
fewer people behind the camera, is still who is that person?
Speaker 4 (34:54):
What is that team?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
And if there's not latinos prompting the AI, then I
doubt about what's gonna be generated is anything other than white?
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Yeah, there's a lot to consider.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Much to consider, but we still think the future is bright,
and we think it's gonna be okay.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
It's gonna be okay.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
As long as we keep creating and we keep making things.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
For ourselves, for our community, for the world, it will
be okay. The arts will keep us going.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yes, the arts will keep us going. Support the arts,
support us, support us, support us. We're trying, and yeah,
thank you for listening.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Thank you for listening to another. We'll catch you next time.
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