July 15, 2026 • 34 mins
This week Diosa and Mala dig into Chicano history and American history: Luis Valdez's groundbreaking play and film Zoot Suit, the 1943 Zoot Suit Riots, and the question at the center: who gets to call themselves American?
Together, they trace the Zoot Suit from a cross-cultural fashion statement into a symbol that made Mexican American youth targets of state and mob violence during World War II, and why that's so resonant today.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I didn't learn about the zoot Suits or the riots
until I was in college, and so just considering that
I was born and raised here, grew up here, and
that very local history was not one that I learned
until I moved out of LA And I think that
that's common for a lot of Latinos Chicanos who don't
learn their history until they go to a university or
they have to seek it out themselves. And it has
(00:22):
not been I'm not sure how it is now, but
growing up, it was not a part of our curriculum.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I think part of that is because it's sort of
a shameful part of Los Angeles history, because I think
that the zoot Suits in the beginning, back in the
day were treated with disdain and disgusted. Zoot suitors were
targets of violence. I mean, the riots were very violent,
a bloody like series of events in downtown LA and
(00:49):
in Boyle Heights on the East Side, in which American
servicemen Navy men who were like stationed in Long Beach
in the Ports of Los Angeles came out to downtown
with loves and bats and dragged people out of movie theaters.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Already O La La Loka motives. I'm Viosa and I'm Mala.
You're listening to Loca Radio.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
A radiophonic novella, which is just.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
An extra way of saying a podcast. We're so excited
to be in studio today. We have so much to
talk about, and we want to start by sharing kind
of how we got to this episode topic. Wow, because
to production meetings in a row we tried, we played
(01:38):
with the idea of doing in an episode about the
US and it's quote too well not quote it is,
let me see it again, it's alleged digit founding.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Founding.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yes, so we wanted to do an episode in our
way right about two hundred and fifty years and we
tried all these different angles and just nothing felt right. Nothing, No,
we just we couldn't.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
But then but then we said, you know what, instead
of talking about red, white, and Blue and Hamburger's and
hot dogs and the price of mayonnaise, right, why don't
we talk about something even more important in American history,
which is the zoot Suit Riots and the anniversary of
zoot Suit, the cinematic masterpiece.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yes, so that's what we're talking about today. We're talking
about and really thinking about Chicano's chicanas Mexican, Mexican Americans
as the fabric as a part of US history. We
know that to be true, but it's not often framed
in that way. And so that's what we're going to
be doing today.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And we are fresh off of a screening of zoot Suit,
which also included a Q and A with Edward James Almos,
the star al Bachuco and Luis Is, the writer and
director of both zoot Suit the Play and Zootsuit the film.
We went to the Ford. It was incredible, It was fabulous.
(03:08):
The Butchu Go Car Club was there.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
With their bombs, people were dressed up. It was very,
very cool.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
So we're going to take you back back in time
to the historical moment that is the Zootsuit Riots. We're
going to talk about zoot Suit as a fashion statement,
a fashion piece of American iconography at this point and
what it means to us thinking about the fourth of
July and America and the two hundred and fiftieth of
the country.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, okay, let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So we were at the Ford, like you mentioned, and
it was just I feel like any time because we
have had the opportunity to interview Edward James almost like
on the red carpet. I was at an award ceremony
with him once, and Luis father is obviously an icon,
(03:59):
and so just to be you know, at the Ford
Theater in Hollywood, iconic historic la Venue, listening and viewing
like living legends.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
There was just something so like grounding in that, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
That Edward James, almost Luis Valdez, they are our icons,
they are our living legends, and to get to hear from.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Them, and how the.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Play was written and how Edward James almost auditioned and
like just that backstory is so fascinating to me. And
that's one of my favorite things about hearing artists speak
and share like their how they got a role or
what the role meant to them.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
And all of that.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And the historical importance and significance of zoot suit.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, for me, I think about that night at the Ford,
the conversation with Louis Valdez and Edward James almost zoot
suits in general, the film, the event, and I just
think about like Chicano cool and Chicano style and Jim's
almost is up there and Luis Faldez and they're in
their eighties.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Yeah, and Edward like.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
With a long ponytail and an La hat and this
cool fucking jacket and talking about auditioning for Bachuco and
the dialogue and the gala and the physicality of it all.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Like it's all.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Style, and it's style that has endured for decades and
even now Willie Chavaria is creating silhouettes and patterns and
is putting models down the runway who are still wearing
zoot suits. Like it's a timeless elegance. And that's really
(05:42):
what was like, really just translating for me, Oh, absolutely
all night, Like it's a it's a period piece, but
it's completely timeless.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, because it's it is, like you said, a culture
and a style that has endured, because we can still
see the Bachuco style, you know, anywhere in East La,
anywhere in bo Height. It's like it's not something of
the past, it's still present day. And then we have
new designers who have their own renditions or their own
homages to the style, like Willie Chavadiya.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, and I think when we think about like tiny top,
big bottoms, I'm like, yeah, that's a batchuka. Yeah, actually,
like that's the silhouette and the film itself is just
so freakin' cool.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
So we watched We watched the movie after.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
The Q and A and I had never seen it
on a big screen. Yeah, neither have I and I
had this same experience years ago when we went to
like the Turkish Cultural Center to watch Selena and these
like iconic films that we've seen on our at home
on the TV, just like our on the small screen,
and when you watch it on a big screen as
(06:54):
part of an audience, it's like a whole different dynamic.
So I loved that, and I loved that Edward James
almost shared that when he was younger, he was in
a rock and roll band and they performed on stage
at the Ford. And then here we are with him
listening to him talk he's eighty years old watching the
film on the big screen, and it just struck me
(07:16):
how much of a musical it is, because it really is.
It's a very musical film and so much dancing.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
One of the things I loved that Edward James almost
shared is how you know he's from Boyle Heights. He
grew up in that neighborhood. He went to East LA
Community College and he was around, Butchu Goes and he
heard them speak Galo, and how he knew like the
musicality in it, and he knew the rhythm of it.
And while he didn't speak it like, he knew a
(07:43):
thing or two and he just really understood its significance.
And I think that's one of the reasons clearly he
nailed the role. You know, we obviously don't know who
else auditioned, but I think his connection to Gallo and
it just being a part of his surrounding is what
made him the iconic.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
But you go, and for those listening and watching Gollo,
what is it? What are we talking about? Like Luis
and Edward we're talking about on stage at the Ford.
It is neither English nor Spanish, and they didn't describe
it as Spanglish either. It's its own specific dialect. And
Edward identifies it as coming from the Texas Mexico border.
(08:28):
Luis Faldees quote describes it as like Spanish English Gypsy
that is like mixed together, migrated its way to southern
California to East Los Angeles, and there was a certain
subset of people in the neighborhood, the Pachucos, who would
speak it amongst themselves and that basically not even everybody
(08:50):
in the neighborhood, not even everybody in Bull Heights understood.
It's almost like, to me, the way they describe it,
it sounds like a creole in a sense.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Like an insider language.
Speaker 5 (09:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
You either you grow up with it, you know it,
but it's not it's not taught, you know, to outsiders.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
You have to be in the community to know.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
To know, you got to be in the note to know.
And I love that.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So much of the film also has that kind of
inside joke like insider writing and perspective, and the film
is very funny, and part of what they talked about
is how Louise Feldez combines humor with social critique, going
back to his Theatro Campecino days. Yes, that what they
(09:36):
were making plays about were these like horrific injustices and
human rights rights violations, but they were doing it with
a humorous like Bend and Lean and Zootsuit has a
lot of very funny moments.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yes, yeah, I mean I was trying to remember the
first time that I saw Zootsuit and it was definitely
in a Chicano studies class I was in college, and
I was thinking about when did I learn about the
zutsu rights and when did I learn about Luis Valez
and the film and its significance. And I really think
it was just Chinanda Studies, you know, and that was
(10:16):
that puts me in like eighteen nineteen right.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
So now to.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
See it over a decade later, right on the big screen,
because similar to you, I had only seen it on
a small screen.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
At all, at home or in the classroom.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, And so to see it in the big screen,
I thought, was you feel like that's the way it's
meant to be watched. And you know, while watching the film,
when we were listening to Luis Valez and Edward James
almost talk about the film, you know, I learned a
thing or two as well, like that it was the
first Chicano played.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
A debut on Broadway.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Incredible.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I did not know that, and I think that that
is incredible. And I think that's still one of the
things that sticks with me about Edward James almost in
the times that we've interviewed him, is that he's talked
about how, you know, he has been the only one,
like the only Chicano to be nominated, the only Chicano
to have like the first, but he knows he's not
the only one, and he knows he shouldn't be the first,
(11:12):
and that there's still a problem that when we think
about Chicano actors and we think about Chicano films and Chigno.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Hollywood, like it is still.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
There's still a few of them, you know, and we
know that that's not the truth and that's not the
reality of like the talent.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, we've cited studies on this podcast. Even within twenty
twenty six, within this past year of Latino representation in Hollywood,
it's still embarrassingly small.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
And minuscule and not enough, and.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It's not whatever accurate means or authentic means, whatever.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
It means, it's just not meeting it.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
And there's something about this film that is just so
like nobody else could make this film, right, Like, no
one could make this film besides these artists, and it
just rings so true and it's just so beautiful to watch,
and the language is so poetic, and for me, in
recent years, the only thing that has come close is
(12:17):
also a play rolling through East La Romeo and Juliet I.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Haven't seen it, but I remember you told me about it.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yes, Written by Louis Alfaro. And what they did is
they took the story of Romeo and Juliet and they
rewrote the script Luis Alfaro. They took the script Romeo
and Juliet. They used iamic pentameter, but they wrote it
in like East La Chicano slang. And to me, I
(12:46):
think about zoot Suit and the calas and the writing
and the musicality and the stylization, and the only thing
that has ever come close to me in all of
these years is this, this Romeo and Juliet rolling through
Ea Stelle adaptation. And in talking to the writer, what
they want is for Romeo and Juliet rolling through East
(13:06):
La to also be a sort of cult classic. And
I could see it eventually one day being like our
modern day zoot Suit adjacent project. You know, for me,
when I think about Zootsuit, like I feel like Zootsuit
has always.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Been a part of my life, right it has been.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yes, I had we have in our home a framed
zoot Suit film poster that has always been there because
the artist who designed the zoot Suit film poster, Ignacio Gomez,
He's an iconic Chicano muralist. He's from East La. He's
always been based in Los Angeles. He's done some very
(13:47):
important murals and memorials, like throughout his career, print work,
statues like he does it all. But uh, he designed
the Zootsuit poster. And my dad at some point in
his life worked with Ignacio Gomez and commissioned him to
do pieces when he worked in marketing. And then when
my dad was preparing to propose to my mother, because
(14:11):
he had a working relationship with Ignacio, my dad commissioned
a portrait of my mother and had Ignacio make it
paint it, and that was like one of his gifts
to my mom, like upon engagement and marriage.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Don't go anywhere Los.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
And so that portrait of my mother, that painting has
always hung in our family home like the centerpiece of
the home. And Ignacio was always a presence in my
life because when he had other works coming up, he
would come over and utilize my mom and me and
my siblings as models.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yeah, aren't you in a mural?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I'm in a couple of the works, I mean a
couple of mural and works, and so is my mom.
So years ago, like two thousand and one, maybe there
was a project where artists were given like these big
angel statues and the city of La and I think
(15:16):
a nonprofit organization commissioned this like public art project, and
Ignacio was one of the artists that was assigned to
paint like one of these big angels, one of these
big angel statues. And his statue was named the Los
Angeles Fiesta Angel. And on this statue it included images
(15:37):
of like Chicano children, like reading and learning and then
like dancing folklodco. So he came over and took my
picture and had me model and then painted the Fiesta
Angel with my likeness and so I'm like for a while,
this angel was on Universal Studios City Walk outside of
(15:58):
Camacho's Mexican Restaurant, and so that's when we would like
go to to like city Walk, like, oh, there's there,
I am, There's there's the Fiesta Angel. So yeah, So,
like zoot Suit has always been a part of my
life because of that Ignacio Gomez connection, because of the artist.
And then when zoot Suit was there was a revival
(16:18):
of zoot Suit at the Mark Taper downtown and of
course we went to go see it and Melina Bobabilla,
our good friend, was acting in the revival as Bertha, one.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Of my favorite characters.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yes, so good.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Yeah, and so I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Zootsuit is just like it's everywhere, It's among us, It's
part of the fabric.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
It's the heart beat.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, it is the fabric of Los Angeles, right and Chicano,
La East, La bo Heights. Yeah, it is very much
a part of the landscape of LA, the fabric of LA.
And it's it's wild to me, like you have a
connection because of the artist who designed the poster.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
But like I mentioned before, or like I didn't.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Learn about the zoot Suits or the riots until I
was in college. And so just considering that I was
born and raised here, grew up here, and that very
local history was not one that I learned until I
moved out of LA. And I think that that's common
for a lot of Latinos Chicanos who don't learn their
history until they go to a university or they have
(17:22):
to seek it out themselves. And it has not been
I'm not sure how it is now, but growing up,
it was not a part of our curriculum.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I think part of that is because it's sort of
a shameful part of Los Angeles history, because I think
that the zoot suits in the beginning, back in the
day were treated with disdain and disgust and were uh targets.
Zoot suitors were targets of violence. I mean the riots
were a violent, very violent, bloody like series of events
(17:54):
in downtown LA and in Boyle Heights on the East Side,
in which American servicemen navymen who were like stationed in
Long Beach in the Ports of Los Angeles, came out
to downtown with clubs and bats and dragged people out
of movie theaters. Those theaters still exist here in our
(18:18):
downtown LA historic Broadway, dragged people out of theaters and
beat them and stripped them of their zoot suits and
injured people. And the LAPD were sort of sympathetic to
the navymen.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Yeah, the LAPD was calling it self defense.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yes, and arrested a lot of the victims. And the
movie and the play zoot Suit deals with not the
zoot Suit riots specifically, but with the Sleepy Lagoon murder trial,
in which the zoot suitters are also unjustly persecuted and villainized,
(18:55):
and the way that they presented themselves and their style
and their dress was part of like what people were
throwing stones about.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I mean in that timeframe or in that time period,
butchuko was synonymous with like gang member, So to dress
as a butchuko was to imply that you were gang affiliated.
And it was also emboldened by the lovely media. And
it also continued that narrative that to be a Bachuco
(19:26):
is to be a gang member, to be Mexican American
is to be inherently violent, To be a man of
color is to also be inherently violent. And so this
has to be like stomped on, this has to be stopped.
And so there was that villainizing that was happening not
only by elected officials but also the media and how
they were covering these in this case for the Sleepy
(19:47):
Lagoon Trial, for the Sleepy Lagoon Trial, these young Mexican
American men.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah, And what's interesting also in the play and in
the film is is there's acknowledgment that the zoots see
was worn by African Americans by Filipinos, Henry Raina's character
being played by a Filipino actor, and there being two
black characters in the film who are some of the
first faces that you see on screen in the context
(20:17):
of their like nightlife, and they're gang, the thirty eighth
Street Gang, the crew and all the zoot suitors and
even the Pachuco. There's a moment in the film where
he mentions, like, to quote, right, the Blacks, the Mexicans,
the Filipinos when the media, when the press are like
(20:38):
indemnifying Henry Reina and his crew and they're referring to
them blanket as zoot suitors.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
And then El Pachuco says.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Well, what you're really doing is you're using coded language
to describe black people, Mexican people, and Filipino people who
are young and who are wearing these drapes, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, in the historical context which we talked about in
the last episode when we were talking about maxing right
and you brought the zoot suitters as a form of
style maxing right, and the historical context of that time
was that it was World War Two, it was in
nineteen forties.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
There was the rationing, and.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
To use this excess fabric was seen as frivolous and
it was seen as disrespectful an American.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And un American.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
And in prepping for this episode, you know, I learned
that the servicemen also saw the zoot suitters as like
draft dodgers, right, and so that was another layer of
the hatred and vitriol in addition to everything else we've stated.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, and what's interesting too is that in the film,
Henry Reina is supposed to report to the Navy like
the next day.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And what I love about that detail is that Edward
James almost character El Pachuco tells him something. I can't
quote it, you probably can, but it's something along the
lines of like, you know, don't love the gringo more
than you love your people.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yes, you know, don't hate your rasa more than you
love the gringo.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yes, And he was referring to him enlisting and to
him starting or reporting for like the Navy the following day.
And obviously the turn of events put him on a
different path and he was unjustly charged for the murder.
But I liked how the character Batchuko is like this
(22:34):
omniscient like reminder of like, this is your culture, this
is your people, like don't turn your back on them,
and like stop trying to assimilate, like stay true to
who you are, And that's one of the I think
core messages that we see throughout the film.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
The film is very is very complicated, The writing is
very complicated, absolutely, and the play is very complicated because
in addition to those sorts of warnings from Batchuko about
like loving yourself versus loving the gringo, loving yourura versus
loving America, there's also these moments throughout the play where
(23:08):
Elbachuko is this instigator. Yes, he is a troublemaker. He
gets Henry in trouble and when Henry is in solitary confinement,
when he's in prison, he has this one on one
with the Batchuko where he says, I know who you are, Carnal.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
You're me. You're the worst of me and the best
of me.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And then we think back to these other moments in
the film where like that night where they're going out,
Henry opens his drawer and looks at his switchblade and
closes the drawer and decides not to take it, and
immediately after Elbachuko is there and hands him the switchblade,
and then he takes it, and so he's almost like
Elbachuko is almost like this this double edged sword.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Absolutely, this is who I am.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
But who I am can be my greatest advocate or
my worst Enemy Lapachukada. In the context of the film
is the culture, is the authenticity, is the resistance, but
it can also be the path to destruction. And I
love how the film plays in that complexity. And the
(24:15):
film is not preachy in that way. It's not like
down with the Gringo, down with America. You know, we
are right, we are perfect, we are everything. It really
dabbles in the wow to quote the film, like just
what they want to see two more Mexicans killing each other, right,
(24:37):
And I love the film for that. And it was
written so long ago, and it was made so long ago.
And it's not a question that's a new question. It's
not an issue that's a new issue. It tells us
that our people have been struggling with this for a
long time.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
I know.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
We saw this film at the Ford because of its anniversary, right,
because of the forty fifth year, to see how the
messages carry on today in the context of ice rays,
in the context of people showing up like wearing like
their cultural pride or garments, and seeing how people are
(25:15):
using now style as a form of resistance. We see
the prensas right, and the monios are very popular right now.
Within I think like the gen Z community that are
who are Latinas, and so I can see that parallel
in the reality that we are living through present day.
And how you know, in the nineteen forties there was
(25:36):
the Zoot Suitors. There was that type of discrimination across
the country, right, not just against Mexican Americans, but you know,
this was still during Jim Crow, the Jim Crow era.
This was still during segregation. And so to again just see,
it's one of those things where you look at progress
and you can say like, Okay, yeah, things have changed
(25:59):
for the best, and then you can also say like, oh,
but so much is also still the same.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
And for me, that's what that film.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
I think that's why it is such a cult classic
because even ten years ago that film, you know, you
could say like, oh, there's still a lot of parallels here,
you know, but watching it in this day, I can
see the parallels between the racial profiling that the Zoot
Suitors were facing in the nineteen forties, fast forward to
now the racial profiling that Latinos are facing in this
(26:28):
country when it comes to immigration stops, when it comes
to even you know, the due process that is lacking
and is actually killing people in our community across the country.
It is just so strike it's striking, you know, the
parallels that can we can see between then and now,
and is one of the reasons I think this film
(26:49):
is the cult classic that it is.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
I agree completely.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I think what you just identified is also the reality
that Latinos we are not the Irish, You're not the Polish.
And it's not as if within one generation or even
two generations, three generations, discrimination is going to fade out, right.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
It's like, you know, there's this idea of like barometer
of who became white. Yes, right, and so like Irish
Italian people, they did face discrimination intensely, but then at
one point they were included in our idea of whiteness.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
They were absorbed. Yeah, and they assimilated.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
And they assimilated, and I Latinos have not had, not
all of them have had that same type of access
to whiteness.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
No, I don't think we qualify. Not all of it qualify.
Not all of us qualify something.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Not all of us want to either.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
It's also a choice to opt in. And I think
that things like wearing a zoot suit, wearing your trendsas
wearing your cultural signifiers are a direct decision to opt
in to Latinidad and to your culture that is not
(28:07):
US American whiteness.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
Don't go anywhere lo is right back, absolutely, yeah, And
I think decades later we still find ourselves asking this
question because you know, not much has changed in these ways,
but it's this idea of like who gets to claim
a US American identity and who is afforded like American news.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
And when we think of this.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Construct of quote America meaning the United States, there is
a clear picture in mind, and it's not necessarily our
community or the people who look like us.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, which is funny because there is no specific American
standard of what it looks like to be an American.
It doesn't exist, Actually, it doesn't exist. So I think
going back suit is an American standard of beauty because
it was created here in the United States, from Harlem
and cab Calloway to the streets of downtown in East LA.
(29:13):
Like it's coast to coast, and it is quintessentially American.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yeah, And it's so you know, in this orbit right now,
in my orbit in particular, you know, we bought tickets
to see Zoutsu at the Ford.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
We talked about it.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
You brought it to the Looks Maxing. You brought it
to the Maxing episode, And simultaneously.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
My grad school instructor.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
He wrote this piece about Mexican Americans rooting for Mexico
during the World Cup and he's a third generation Mexican American.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
He's at the Hano. What's interesting is that.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
He quotes Luis Faldez, who he saw speak at a
conference like back in the eighties, and they're having this
conversation about.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Like what do we call ourselves? Right?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Are we Hispanic? Are we Latino? Are we Chicano? We're like,
are we Mexican? American?
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Who are we? And Oscar quotes him saying, you know
what I am.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I'm American because I was born in Delanno, California. I'm
a son of migrant farm workers from Mexico. And I
think that that is such to me, like really struck
me that he identified, like, well, I'm an American, because
that is not something I have opted into as an identity.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
And what Oscar writes.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
In this is like, if you don't claim it, no
one's going to give it to you. And I thought
that that was a really interesting point and not one
that I had considered before because I'm not necessarily fighting
for this like quote American identity of what we think
of like an all American girl, that is a very
specific standard. But by way of where I was born, yeah,
(30:49):
I am, you know, a US born American. And so
that was like a cultural nuance that I think was
missing for me. And it doesn't mean I'm going to
like change how I but that point of like, if
we don't claim it, they're not going to give it
to you.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
And I thought that that was really interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
It's very interesting, and it reminds me of years ago
we were having a conversation about Selena and I don't
think she ever identified as a Chicana. I don't know
if the family identifies as Chicanos, the Tejanos, right, but
I remember we had a comment from somebody that said,
(31:28):
just in basic the basic definition of what Chicano or
Chicana is like, to be of Mexican American descent born
in the United States after a certain period of time
can qualify you to be a Chicana. A Chicano the
same way as like a tomato by definition is.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
A fruit, right, yes.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Like by definition and the characteristics and the qualities that
make one this you are that right and by the
same token, like have a US passport. You know, I
was born in the United States the same way. I'm
a Californian, but I've never gone around ever and said
I'm a Californian.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, no, I'm from LA but I just am yeah,
of course, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Of course, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
And I actually had a conversation with my brother about
that maybe a couple of years ago, where I asked him,
you know, what, how do you identify? You know, my
brother is full Mexican on both sides, and so he
like had to think about it, and he was like,
I think Mexican American, he was like, but also Chicano
fits for me.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
And I was like, okay, you know, and we had it.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Even like within my brother and I we hadn't had
that conversation or like, how how do we identify and
what feels right for you? And so yeah, I think
like identity, it's so personal obviously, but it I think
in the context of the two hundred and fiftieth birthday,
you know, we wanted to talk about like Chicano's and
(33:00):
Mexican Americans and this like American identity and the zootsuits
being a part of American history.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
What I love most about the World Cup, not most,
but like one of the things that is like so
amazing to me is like at the Mexico Games, rip
since disqualified, but there's a mariachi song that gets played
Viva Mexico, Viva America. Yes, yes, at all the Mexico Games. Yes,
And it's like need I say more?
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Right, When I was growing up, my dad was very
very very very staunch in that in like America is
not one place. No, Like there's South America, there's Central America,
there's North America. My father would quiz us, quiz me
on like what what country was in which part, Like
was it in the in the South, in South America,
(33:49):
in Central and North And that was like a part
of like the dinner table quiz that he would give me.
And yeah, he was very My dad very much taught
me at a very young age, like America is not
just one place. People here in the US will always
talk about this place as America, as them being American,
and he's like, but I'm American too, I'm from South
(34:12):
America that is also in America. And so that I
think has always been like just my personal frustration with
these conversations of like how you the US becomes like
the America, you know, when we know that there's there's
more than one the America.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Cause yeah, it's a whole hemisphere, honey, Yes it's the
whole Western hemisphere.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
Yes, I'm an American. Yeah, we all are get in line,
get it, get in line.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
All right, Loka Motives. Thank you for listening to another radio.
We'll catch you next time, bess Lo
I didn't learn about the zoot Suits or the riots
until I was in college, and so just considering that
I was born and raised here, grew up here, and
that very local history was not one that I learned
until I moved out of LA And I think that
that's common for a lot of Latinos Chicanos who don't
learn their history until they go to a university or
they have to seek it out themselves. And it has
(00:22):
not been I'm not sure how it is now, but
growing up, it was not a part of our curriculum.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I think part of that is because it's sort of
a shameful part of Los Angeles history, because I think
that the zoot Suits in the beginning, back in the
day were treated with disdain and disgusted. Zoot suitors were
targets of violence. I mean, the riots were very violent,
a bloody like series of events in downtown LA and
(00:49):
in Boyle Heights on the East Side, in which American
servicemen Navy men who were like stationed in Long Beach
in the Ports of Los Angeles came out to downtown
with loves and bats and dragged people out of movie theaters.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Already O La La Loka motives. I'm Viosa and I'm Mala.
You're listening to Loca Radio.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
A radiophonic novella, which is just.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
An extra way of saying a podcast. We're so excited
to be in studio today. We have so much to
talk about, and we want to start by sharing kind
of how we got to this episode topic. Wow, because
to production meetings in a row we tried, we played
(01:38):
with the idea of doing in an episode about the
US and it's quote too well not quote it is,
let me see it again, it's alleged digit founding.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Founding.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yes, so we wanted to do an episode in our
way right about two hundred and fifty years and we
tried all these different angles and just nothing felt right. Nothing, No,
we just we couldn't.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
But then but then we said, you know what, instead
of talking about red, white, and Blue and Hamburger's and
hot dogs and the price of mayonnaise, right, why don't
we talk about something even more important in American history,
which is the zoot Suit Riots and the anniversary of
zoot Suit, the cinematic masterpiece.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yes, so that's what we're talking about today. We're talking
about and really thinking about Chicano's chicanas Mexican, Mexican Americans
as the fabric as a part of US history. We
know that to be true, but it's not often framed
in that way. And so that's what we're going to
be doing today.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And we are fresh off of a screening of zoot Suit,
which also included a Q and A with Edward James Almos,
the star al Bachuco and Luis Is, the writer and
director of both zoot Suit the Play and Zootsuit the film.
We went to the Ford. It was incredible, It was fabulous.
(03:08):
The Butchu Go Car Club was there.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
With their bombs, people were dressed up. It was very,
very cool.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
So we're going to take you back back in time
to the historical moment that is the Zootsuit Riots. We're
going to talk about zoot Suit as a fashion statement,
a fashion piece of American iconography at this point and
what it means to us thinking about the fourth of
July and America and the two hundred and fiftieth of
the country.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, okay, let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So we were at the Ford, like you mentioned, and
it was just I feel like any time because we
have had the opportunity to interview Edward James almost like
on the red carpet. I was at an award ceremony
with him once, and Luis father is obviously an icon,
(03:59):
and so just to be you know, at the Ford
Theater in Hollywood, iconic historic la Venue, listening and viewing
like living legends.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
There was just something so like grounding in that, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
That Edward James, almost Luis Valdez, they are our icons,
they are our living legends, and to get to hear from.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Them, and how the.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Play was written and how Edward James almost auditioned and
like just that backstory is so fascinating to me. And
that's one of my favorite things about hearing artists speak
and share like their how they got a role or
what the role meant to them.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
And all of that.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And the historical importance and significance of zoot suit.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, for me, I think about that night at the Ford,
the conversation with Louis Valdez and Edward James almost zoot
suits in general, the film, the event, and I just
think about like Chicano cool and Chicano style and Jim's
almost is up there and Luis Faldez and they're in
their eighties.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Yeah, and Edward like.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
With a long ponytail and an La hat and this
cool fucking jacket and talking about auditioning for Bachuco and
the dialogue and the gala and the physicality of it all.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Like it's all.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Style, and it's style that has endured for decades and
even now Willie Chavaria is creating silhouettes and patterns and
is putting models down the runway who are still wearing
zoot suits. Like it's a timeless elegance. And that's really
(05:42):
what was like, really just translating for me, Oh, absolutely
all night, Like it's a it's a period piece, but
it's completely timeless.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, because it's it is, like you said, a culture
and a style that has endured, because we can still
see the Bachuco style, you know, anywhere in East La,
anywhere in bo Height. It's like it's not something of
the past, it's still present day. And then we have
new designers who have their own renditions or their own
homages to the style, like Willie Chavadiya.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, and I think when we think about like tiny top,
big bottoms, I'm like, yeah, that's a batchuka. Yeah, actually,
like that's the silhouette and the film itself is just
so freakin' cool.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
So we watched We watched the movie after.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
The Q and A and I had never seen it
on a big screen. Yeah, neither have I and I
had this same experience years ago when we went to
like the Turkish Cultural Center to watch Selena and these
like iconic films that we've seen on our at home
on the TV, just like our on the small screen,
and when you watch it on a big screen as
(06:54):
part of an audience, it's like a whole different dynamic.
So I loved that, and I loved that Edward James
almost shared that when he was younger, he was in
a rock and roll band and they performed on stage
at the Ford. And then here we are with him
listening to him talk he's eighty years old watching the
film on the big screen, and it just struck me
(07:16):
how much of a musical it is, because it really is.
It's a very musical film and so much dancing.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
One of the things I loved that Edward James almost
shared is how you know he's from Boyle Heights. He
grew up in that neighborhood. He went to East LA
Community College and he was around, Butchu Goes and he
heard them speak Galo, and how he knew like the
musicality in it, and he knew the rhythm of it.
And while he didn't speak it like, he knew a
(07:43):
thing or two and he just really understood its significance.
And I think that's one of the reasons clearly he
nailed the role. You know, we obviously don't know who
else auditioned, but I think his connection to Gallo and
it just being a part of his surrounding is what
made him the iconic.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
But you go, and for those listening and watching Gollo,
what is it? What are we talking about? Like Luis
and Edward we're talking about on stage at the Ford.
It is neither English nor Spanish, and they didn't describe
it as Spanglish either. It's its own specific dialect. And
Edward identifies it as coming from the Texas Mexico border.
(08:28):
Luis Faldees quote describes it as like Spanish English Gypsy
that is like mixed together, migrated its way to southern
California to East Los Angeles, and there was a certain
subset of people in the neighborhood, the Pachucos, who would
speak it amongst themselves and that basically not even everybody
(08:50):
in the neighborhood, not even everybody in Bull Heights understood.
It's almost like, to me, the way they describe it,
it sounds like a creole in a sense.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Like an insider language.
Speaker 5 (09:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
You either you grow up with it, you know it,
but it's not it's not taught, you know, to outsiders.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
You have to be in the community to know.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
To know, you got to be in the note to know.
And I love that.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So much of the film also has that kind of
inside joke like insider writing and perspective, and the film
is very funny, and part of what they talked about
is how Louise Feldez combines humor with social critique, going
back to his Theatro Campecino days. Yes, that what they
(09:36):
were making plays about were these like horrific injustices and
human rights rights violations, but they were doing it with
a humorous like Bend and Lean and Zootsuit has a
lot of very funny moments.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yes, yeah, I mean I was trying to remember the
first time that I saw Zootsuit and it was definitely
in a Chicano studies class I was in college, and
I was thinking about when did I learn about the
zutsu rights and when did I learn about Luis Valez
and the film and its significance. And I really think
it was just Chinanda Studies, you know, and that was
(10:16):
that puts me in like eighteen nineteen right.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
So now to.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
See it over a decade later, right on the big screen,
because similar to you, I had only seen it on
a small screen.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
At all, at home or in the classroom.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, And so to see it in the big screen,
I thought, was you feel like that's the way it's
meant to be watched. And you know, while watching the film,
when we were listening to Luis Valez and Edward James
almost talk about the film, you know, I learned a
thing or two as well, like that it was the
first Chicano played.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
A debut on Broadway.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Incredible.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I did not know that, and I think that that
is incredible. And I think that's still one of the
things that sticks with me about Edward James almost in
the times that we've interviewed him, is that he's talked
about how, you know, he has been the only one,
like the only Chicano to be nominated, the only Chicano
to have like the first, but he knows he's not
the only one, and he knows he shouldn't be the first,
(11:12):
and that there's still a problem that when we think
about Chicano actors and we think about Chicano films and Chigno.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Hollywood, like it is still.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
There's still a few of them, you know, and we
know that that's not the truth and that's not the
reality of like the talent.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, we've cited studies on this podcast. Even within twenty
twenty six, within this past year of Latino representation in Hollywood,
it's still embarrassingly small.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
And minuscule and not enough, and.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It's not whatever accurate means or authentic means, whatever.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
It means, it's just not meeting it.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
And there's something about this film that is just so
like nobody else could make this film, right, Like, no
one could make this film besides these artists, and it
just rings so true and it's just so beautiful to watch,
and the language is so poetic, and for me, in
recent years, the only thing that has come close is
(12:17):
also a play rolling through East La Romeo and Juliet I.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Haven't seen it, but I remember you told me about it.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yes, Written by Louis Alfaro. And what they did is
they took the story of Romeo and Juliet and they
rewrote the script Luis Alfaro. They took the script Romeo
and Juliet. They used iamic pentameter, but they wrote it
in like East La Chicano slang. And to me, I
(12:46):
think about zoot Suit and the calas and the writing
and the musicality and the stylization, and the only thing
that has ever come close to me in all of
these years is this, this Romeo and Juliet rolling through
Ea Stelle adaptation. And in talking to the writer, what
they want is for Romeo and Juliet rolling through East
(13:06):
La to also be a sort of cult classic. And
I could see it eventually one day being like our
modern day zoot Suit adjacent project. You know, for me,
when I think about Zootsuit, like I feel like Zootsuit
has always.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Been a part of my life, right it has been.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yes, I had we have in our home a framed
zoot Suit film poster that has always been there because
the artist who designed the zoot Suit film poster, Ignacio Gomez,
He's an iconic Chicano muralist. He's from East La. He's
always been based in Los Angeles. He's done some very
(13:47):
important murals and memorials, like throughout his career, print work,
statues like he does it all. But uh, he designed
the Zootsuit poster. And my dad at some point in
his life worked with Ignacio Gomez and commissioned him to
do pieces when he worked in marketing. And then when
my dad was preparing to propose to my mother, because
(14:11):
he had a working relationship with Ignacio, my dad commissioned
a portrait of my mother and had Ignacio make it
paint it, and that was like one of his gifts
to my mom, like upon engagement and marriage.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Don't go anywhere Los.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
And so that portrait of my mother, that painting has
always hung in our family home like the centerpiece of
the home. And Ignacio was always a presence in my
life because when he had other works coming up, he
would come over and utilize my mom and me and
my siblings as models.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yeah, aren't you in a mural?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I'm in a couple of the works, I mean a
couple of mural and works, and so is my mom.
So years ago, like two thousand and one, maybe there
was a project where artists were given like these big
angel statues and the city of La and I think
(15:16):
a nonprofit organization commissioned this like public art project, and
Ignacio was one of the artists that was assigned to
paint like one of these big angels, one of these
big angel statues. And his statue was named the Los
Angeles Fiesta Angel. And on this statue it included images
(15:37):
of like Chicano children, like reading and learning and then
like dancing folklodco. So he came over and took my
picture and had me model and then painted the Fiesta
Angel with my likeness and so I'm like for a while,
this angel was on Universal Studios City Walk outside of
(15:58):
Camacho's Mexican Restaurant, and so that's when we would like
go to to like city Walk, like, oh, there's there,
I am, There's there's the Fiesta Angel. So yeah, So,
like zoot Suit has always been a part of my
life because of that Ignacio Gomez connection, because of the artist.
And then when zoot Suit was there was a revival
(16:18):
of zoot Suit at the Mark Taper downtown and of
course we went to go see it and Melina Bobabilla,
our good friend, was acting in the revival as Bertha, one.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Of my favorite characters.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yes, so good.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Yeah, and so I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Zootsuit is just like it's everywhere, It's among us, It's
part of the fabric.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
It's the heart beat.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, it is the fabric of Los Angeles, right and Chicano,
La East, La bo Heights. Yeah, it is very much
a part of the landscape of LA, the fabric of LA.
And it's it's wild to me, like you have a
connection because of the artist who designed the poster.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
But like I mentioned before, or like I didn't.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Learn about the zoot Suits or the riots until I
was in college. And so just considering that I was
born and raised here, grew up here, and that very
local history was not one that I learned until I
moved out of LA. And I think that that's common
for a lot of Latinos Chicanos who don't learn their
history until they go to a university or they have
(17:22):
to seek it out themselves. And it has not been
I'm not sure how it is now, but growing up,
it was not a part of our curriculum.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I think part of that is because it's sort of
a shameful part of Los Angeles history, because I think
that the zoot suits in the beginning, back in the
day were treated with disdain and disgust and were uh targets.
Zoot suitors were targets of violence. I mean the riots
were a violent, very violent, bloody like series of events
(17:54):
in downtown LA and in Boyle Heights on the East Side,
in which American servicemen navymen who were like stationed in
Long Beach in the Ports of Los Angeles, came out
to downtown with clubs and bats and dragged people out
of movie theaters. Those theaters still exist here in our
(18:18):
downtown LA historic Broadway, dragged people out of theaters and
beat them and stripped them of their zoot suits and
injured people. And the LAPD were sort of sympathetic to
the navymen.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Yeah, the LAPD was calling it self defense.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yes, and arrested a lot of the victims. And the
movie and the play zoot Suit deals with not the
zoot Suit riots specifically, but with the Sleepy Lagoon murder trial,
in which the zoot suitters are also unjustly persecuted and villainized,
(18:55):
and the way that they presented themselves and their style
and their dress was part of like what people were
throwing stones about.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I mean in that timeframe or in that time period,
butchuko was synonymous with like gang member, So to dress
as a butchuko was to imply that you were gang affiliated.
And it was also emboldened by the lovely media. And
it also continued that narrative that to be a Bachuco
(19:26):
is to be a gang member, to be Mexican American
is to be inherently violent, To be a man of
color is to also be inherently violent. And so this
has to be like stomped on, this has to be stopped.
And so there was that villainizing that was happening not
only by elected officials but also the media and how
they were covering these in this case for the Sleepy
(19:47):
Lagoon Trial, for the Sleepy Lagoon Trial, these young Mexican
American men.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah, And what's interesting also in the play and in
the film is is there's acknowledgment that the zoots see
was worn by African Americans by Filipinos, Henry Raina's character
being played by a Filipino actor, and there being two
black characters in the film who are some of the
first faces that you see on screen in the context
(20:17):
of their like nightlife, and they're gang, the thirty eighth
Street Gang, the crew and all the zoot suitors and
even the Pachuco. There's a moment in the film where
he mentions, like, to quote, right, the Blacks, the Mexicans,
the Filipinos when the media, when the press are like
(20:38):
indemnifying Henry Reina and his crew and they're referring to
them blanket as zoot suitors.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
And then El Pachuco says.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Well, what you're really doing is you're using coded language
to describe black people, Mexican people, and Filipino people who
are young and who are wearing these drapes, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, in the historical context which we talked about in
the last episode when we were talking about maxing right
and you brought the zoot suitters as a form of
style maxing right, and the historical context of that time
was that it was World War Two, it was in
nineteen forties.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
There was the rationing, and.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
To use this excess fabric was seen as frivolous and
it was seen as disrespectful an American.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And un American.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
And in prepping for this episode, you know, I learned
that the servicemen also saw the zoot suitters as like
draft dodgers, right, and so that was another layer of
the hatred and vitriol in addition to everything else we've stated.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, and what's interesting too is that in the film,
Henry Reina is supposed to report to the Navy like
the next day.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And what I love about that detail is that Edward
James almost character El Pachuco tells him something. I can't
quote it, you probably can, but it's something along the
lines of like, you know, don't love the gringo more
than you love your people.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yes, you know, don't hate your rasa more than you
love the gringo.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yes, And he was referring to him enlisting and to
him starting or reporting for like the Navy the following day.
And obviously the turn of events put him on a
different path and he was unjustly charged for the murder.
But I liked how the character Batchuko is like this
(22:34):
omniscient like reminder of like, this is your culture, this
is your people, like don't turn your back on them,
and like stop trying to assimilate, like stay true to
who you are, And that's one of the I think
core messages that we see throughout the film.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
The film is very is very complicated, The writing is
very complicated, absolutely, and the play is very complicated because
in addition to those sorts of warnings from Batchuko about
like loving yourself versus loving the gringo, loving yourura versus
loving America, there's also these moments throughout the play where
(23:08):
Elbachuko is this instigator. Yes, he is a troublemaker. He
gets Henry in trouble and when Henry is in solitary confinement,
when he's in prison, he has this one on one
with the Batchuko where he says, I know who you are, Carnal.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
You're me. You're the worst of me and the best
of me.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And then we think back to these other moments in
the film where like that night where they're going out,
Henry opens his drawer and looks at his switchblade and
closes the drawer and decides not to take it, and
immediately after Elbachuko is there and hands him the switchblade,
and then he takes it, and so he's almost like
Elbachuko is almost like this this double edged sword.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Absolutely, this is who I am.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
But who I am can be my greatest advocate or
my worst Enemy Lapachukada. In the context of the film
is the culture, is the authenticity, is the resistance, but
it can also be the path to destruction. And I
love how the film plays in that complexity. And the
(24:15):
film is not preachy in that way. It's not like
down with the Gringo, down with America. You know, we
are right, we are perfect, we are everything. It really
dabbles in the wow to quote the film, like just
what they want to see two more Mexicans killing each other, right,
(24:37):
And I love the film for that. And it was
written so long ago, and it was made so long ago.
And it's not a question that's a new question. It's
not an issue that's a new issue. It tells us
that our people have been struggling with this for a
long time.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
I know.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
We saw this film at the Ford because of its anniversary, right,
because of the forty fifth year, to see how the
messages carry on today in the context of ice rays,
in the context of people showing up like wearing like
their cultural pride or garments, and seeing how people are
(25:15):
using now style as a form of resistance. We see
the prensas right, and the monios are very popular right now.
Within I think like the gen Z community that are
who are Latinas, and so I can see that parallel
in the reality that we are living through present day.
And how you know, in the nineteen forties there was
(25:36):
the Zoot Suitors. There was that type of discrimination across
the country, right, not just against Mexican Americans, but you know,
this was still during Jim Crow, the Jim Crow era.
This was still during segregation. And so to again just see,
it's one of those things where you look at progress
and you can say like, Okay, yeah, things have changed
(25:59):
for the best, and then you can also say like, oh,
but so much is also still the same.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
And for me, that's what that film.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
I think that's why it is such a cult classic
because even ten years ago that film, you know, you
could say like, oh, there's still a lot of parallels here,
you know, but watching it in this day, I can
see the parallels between the racial profiling that the Zoot
Suitors were facing in the nineteen forties, fast forward to
now the racial profiling that Latinos are facing in this
(26:28):
country when it comes to immigration stops, when it comes
to even you know, the due process that is lacking
and is actually killing people in our community across the country.
It is just so strike it's striking, you know, the
parallels that can we can see between then and now,
and is one of the reasons I think this film
(26:49):
is the cult classic that it is.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
I agree completely.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I think what you just identified is also the reality
that Latinos we are not the Irish, You're not the Polish.
And it's not as if within one generation or even
two generations, three generations, discrimination is going to fade out, right.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
It's like, you know, there's this idea of like barometer
of who became white. Yes, right, and so like Irish
Italian people, they did face discrimination intensely, but then at
one point they were included in our idea of whiteness.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
They were absorbed. Yeah, and they assimilated.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
And they assimilated, and I Latinos have not had, not
all of them have had that same type of access
to whiteness.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
No, I don't think we qualify. Not all of it qualify.
Not all of us qualify something.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Not all of us want to either.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
It's also a choice to opt in. And I think
that things like wearing a zoot suit, wearing your trendsas
wearing your cultural signifiers are a direct decision to opt
in to Latinidad and to your culture that is not
(28:07):
US American whiteness.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
Don't go anywhere lo is right back, absolutely, yeah, And
I think decades later we still find ourselves asking this
question because you know, not much has changed in these ways,
but it's this idea of like who gets to claim
a US American identity and who is afforded like American news.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
And when we think of this.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Construct of quote America meaning the United States, there is
a clear picture in mind, and it's not necessarily our
community or the people who look like us.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, which is funny because there is no specific American
standard of what it looks like to be an American.
It doesn't exist, Actually, it doesn't exist. So I think
going back suit is an American standard of beauty because
it was created here in the United States, from Harlem
and cab Calloway to the streets of downtown in East LA.
(29:13):
Like it's coast to coast, and it is quintessentially American.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yeah, And it's so you know, in this orbit right now,
in my orbit in particular, you know, we bought tickets
to see Zoutsu at the Ford.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
We talked about it.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
You brought it to the Looks Maxing. You brought it
to the Maxing episode, And simultaneously.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
My grad school instructor.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
He wrote this piece about Mexican Americans rooting for Mexico
during the World Cup and he's a third generation Mexican American.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
He's at the Hano. What's interesting is that.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
He quotes Luis Faldez, who he saw speak at a
conference like back in the eighties, and they're having this
conversation about.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Like what do we call ourselves? Right?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Are we Hispanic? Are we Latino? Are we Chicano? We're like,
are we Mexican? American?
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Who are we? And Oscar quotes him saying, you know
what I am.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I'm American because I was born in Delanno, California. I'm
a son of migrant farm workers from Mexico. And I
think that that is such to me, like really struck
me that he identified, like, well, I'm an American, because
that is not something I have opted into as an identity.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
And what Oscar writes.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
In this is like, if you don't claim it, no
one's going to give it to you. And I thought
that that was a really interesting point and not one
that I had considered before because I'm not necessarily fighting
for this like quote American identity of what we think
of like an all American girl, that is a very
specific standard. But by way of where I was born, yeah,
(30:49):
I am, you know, a US born American. And so
that was like a cultural nuance that I think was
missing for me. And it doesn't mean I'm going to
like change how I but that point of like, if
we don't claim it, they're not going to give it
to you.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
And I thought that that was really interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
It's very interesting, and it reminds me of years ago
we were having a conversation about Selena and I don't
think she ever identified as a Chicana. I don't know
if the family identifies as Chicanos, the Tejanos, right, but
I remember we had a comment from somebody that said,
(31:28):
just in basic the basic definition of what Chicano or
Chicana is like, to be of Mexican American descent born
in the United States after a certain period of time
can qualify you to be a Chicana. A Chicano the
same way as like a tomato by definition is.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
A fruit, right, yes.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Like by definition and the characteristics and the qualities that
make one this you are that right and by the
same token, like have a US passport. You know, I
was born in the United States the same way. I'm
a Californian, but I've never gone around ever and said
I'm a Californian.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, no, I'm from LA but I just am yeah,
of course, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Of course, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
And I actually had a conversation with my brother about
that maybe a couple of years ago, where I asked him,
you know, what, how do you identify? You know, my
brother is full Mexican on both sides, and so he
like had to think about it, and he was like,
I think Mexican American, he was like, but also Chicano
fits for me.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
And I was like, okay, you know, and we had it.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Even like within my brother and I we hadn't had
that conversation or like, how how do we identify and
what feels right for you? And so yeah, I think
like identity, it's so personal obviously, but it I think
in the context of the two hundred and fiftieth birthday,
you know, we wanted to talk about like Chicano's and
(33:00):
Mexican Americans and this like American identity and the zootsuits
being a part of American history.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
What I love most about the World Cup, not most,
but like one of the things that is like so
amazing to me is like at the Mexico Games, rip
since disqualified, but there's a mariachi song that gets played
Viva Mexico, Viva America. Yes, yes, at all the Mexico Games. Yes,
And it's like need I say more?
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Right, When I was growing up, my dad was very
very very very staunch in that in like America is
not one place. No, Like there's South America, there's Central America,
there's North America. My father would quiz us, quiz me
on like what what country was in which part, Like
was it in the in the South, in South America,
(33:49):
in Central and North And that was like a part
of like the dinner table quiz that he would give me.
And yeah, he was very My dad very much taught
me at a very young age, like America is not
just one place. People here in the US will always
talk about this place as America, as them being American,
and he's like, but I'm American too, I'm from South
(34:12):
America that is also in America. And so that I
think has always been like just my personal frustration with
these conversations of like how you the US becomes like
the America, you know, when we know that there's there's
more than one the America.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Cause yeah, it's a whole hemisphere, honey, Yes it's the
whole Western hemisphere.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
Yes, I'm an American. Yeah, we all are get in line,
get it, get in line.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
All right, Loka Motives. Thank you for listening to another radio.
We'll catch you next time, bess Lo
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