August 14, 2026 • 45 mins
65% of Gen Z feels nostalgic for eras they never lived. That's a marketer's dream — and a minefield. In this episode of Market Says, hosts Gayle Troberman and Marcus Collins sit down with University of Michigan marketing students to unpack why some brands earn their way into a decade that isn't theirs, and why the ones that fake it get caught every time.
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
My eldest daughter, Georgia is obsessed with Full House, like
she's been watching it over and over and over. When
I came into the house yesterday from work, I saw
the television on pause and now she's watching Family Matters,
and I'm like, what the road is going on here?
I started thinking to myself as like, well, when I
(00:36):
was growing up, what were the shows that I watched?
And I don't know about for you, Gail, but like
I was watching Different Strokes, which was like around in
the eighties, so I was like my error. But I
was also watching like Sanford and Son and Good Times,
and like these were shows that like predate me. So
I'm like living experience that isn't my own. So I
(00:57):
think about like Georgia's watching Habits and she watched things
that were contemporary too, just like I did think about
my watching Habits when I was her age. And then
I saw this stat from Vivo that said sixty five
percent of gen Z's filled nostalgia for errors they never lived,
and I go, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
This is a thing.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So I can't help but wonder, why does any of
this click with you, Gail?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
One hundred percent?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I mean, because I think there were some old shows
that used to get like played forever because they were
cheap to air, Brady Bunch, Gilligan's Island, and it was
because they have to pay the actors every time you
run a thing. Laws changed right after those shows from
the seventies. Oh so I grew up on the Brady
Bunch and then when my first PR jobs, I ended
(01:47):
up traveling to thirty cities in America with Maureen McCormick,
who played Marcia. And it was the weirdest thing seeing
all of these different generations of old people and young
people who were obsessed with Marcia Brady was it was
so cool.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Marha mar Marshall.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Completely hard to understand. But I think there's some human
truths too. I think I think comedy holds up really well,
right because like a family sitcom, like family drama is
family drama, Being you know, five is being five, Being
fifteen is being fifteen. I think there's some when when
content's based in human truths. I do think it can persist.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I mean, that's so true.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
And I watched Leave It to Beaver, watched the Andy
Griffin show like this is why I Dream a Genie,
Like all those shows, like I watched all those shows,
and I think you're right. There is a consistency to
the human truth, even though the context changes. So of
course that's just us and our experience. But we want
(02:45):
to know what the market says. So thankfully we've got
two representatives of the market, two bright, bright brains of.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
The University of Michigan.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
So obviously that Hannah and Ario, with this welcome to
market says we are ready to be in light by you.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Thank you for being with us today.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yeah, thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Happy to be back.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Thank you. Let's talk nostalgia for a moment.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It's interesting the literature talks about nostalgia being a mental
condition that I guess come from German roots to say
that it was considered an illness that you couldn't get
past the past. But now we think of nostalgia, it's
just like really warm and fuzzy thing. I feel nostalgic
for a thing. So I guess my question to get
(03:32):
us started, Aria, Hannah, is when you think about nostalgia,
what era in life do you feel nostalgic for.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
I can start with that one.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, first of all, that's so cool.
Speaker 6 (03:43):
I didn't know that it used to be referred to
as that sickening feeling. And typically I do feel warm
and fuzzy when I'm like looking back on stuff, but
I just graduated, and so like now, when I'm looking
back at college, I'm getting that sickening feeling where I'm like,
oh my god, I cannot believe that that's.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
Not going to happen again.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
So that feels super validating that there were doctors like
understood what I'm coming from. So definitely my college era
right now, I already feel super nostalgic about that. And honestly,
like I think high school too, I wouldn't say that
I feel like a sense of nostalgia for like my
true youth, and I think it's because I don't really
remember it. I think high school like I have more
(04:23):
of those formative memories that.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
I can be nostalgic for.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Let you are you.
Speaker 7 (04:28):
Definitely, like Hannah, college has been at the forefront of
my mind, which is so sad. I feel just washed
up now and that you know, I'm I'm not able
to experience that.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, exactly, Welcome to the real world, baby.
Speaker 7 (04:45):
But I mean with the summer, I definitely every year
feel nostalgic for my childhood when I was seven or
eight years old, going to my best friend's house, jumping
on the trampoline outside, even the small moments of looking
through the trampoline netting and seeing below the trampoline is
a very specific memory for me.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
I think, honestly, just just.
Speaker 7 (05:09):
Romanticizing my childhood is very common for me, Like being outside,
being in those simpler times, and then you know, running
inside and eating a bowl of mac and cheese that
was made by somebody.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
It's great, And just thinking about that now, you know, now.
Speaker 7 (05:22):
That I'm in the city and not near tons of
green or nature close to my childhood friends, I definitely
feel that emotional staying a bit and that longing for
a simpler childhood.
Speaker 5 (05:35):
It's so funny.
Speaker 8 (05:36):
I'm recording.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
I'm at a friend's house in the Hamptons right now,
and she's a psychologist, so it's telling her about this
episode to your German word origin. She was telling me
that the Buddhists think nostalgia is like a problem. It's
actually a longing for something that no longer exists. Yeah,
which I thought was fascinating. Right to your summer on
the trampoline, somebody bringing you a nice warm bowl of
(06:00):
mac and cheese, right.
Speaker 8 (06:02):
Like, we miss that thing.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
So it's almost like psychologically as we like lean into
whether it's music or toys or games or you know,
experiences or content, like are we trying to recreate a moment?
Speaker 5 (06:17):
You know?
Speaker 3 (06:18):
It's so interesting because I always I was with you guys,
like I always thought of it as warm and fuzzy.
Speaker 8 (06:22):
Isn't it lovely?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
But maybe we're in our psyche we're just longing for
something we can't have again.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I love that. It's like, let it go AHEADA college
is over, it's done, let.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
It go.
Speaker 8 (06:35):
Yeah, you just got like five decades of work ahead.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Isn't likely get excited for that? Gosh, I love this
conversation already.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
That's interesting about this is that I think about like
the things I feel nostalgic for, right Like.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I love the eighties, I love the nineties.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
I think about high school, like I think about these
sort of really like rich emotional moments. But then I
think about the content that I'm that I'm consuming today
that are actually from a life that I didn't live.
For instance, like right now, if you were to do
my Spotify rap today or the number one song would
(07:13):
probably be what a fool believes by the Doobie Brothers.
Like I love yacht rock. Yacht rock came out in
the late seventies. I was born in seventy nine, right,
so I did not experience that at all. I'm from Detroit,
so I was even in Los Angeles when these guys
were writing, so like Steely Dan, Michael McDonald, Kenny Loggins,
Christopher Cross, Like, I didn't know these guys. Those songs
(07:35):
weren't on the radio when I was a kid. But
yet I feel so connected to this music. So I
ask of you all, we know what's you're nostalgic for
for things that you've lived. Are there things that you're
consuming that's not from your error? Like are you doing throwbacks?
Like Stranger Things is a good example, Like we're watching
Stranger Things, which a new piece of content, but it
(07:59):
was hearkening back to the eighties, Like are there things
that you're experiencing had an aria that feel like you
didn't live it, but it kind of feels like yours too.
Speaker 7 (08:09):
Maybe Yeah, absolutely, I'm on that yacht rock wave as well,
So Fleetwood, Mac, the Smiths, Americas, Deely Dan, all of
my favorites. And then I'm on my third rewatch of
friends as well. Oh yeah, I absolutely long for this
(08:29):
era that I never lived in, and I think it's
again longing for a simpler past.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
It's very easy with nostalgia.
Speaker 7 (08:39):
To think about the good things and not necessarily the
struggle of that generation or of that era. And when
we're experiencing so many hard things in our life now,
you know, politically or personally moving being postcrad, it's easy
to look back and watch friends and think, hey, their
(08:59):
life looks great, Like they just get to hang out
at a coffee shop every single day. They have cute haircuts,
great hairstyles, and they're just a group of friends, you know,
kiking and that's just something that I really long for.
Speaker 8 (09:11):
And a kick ass apartment.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Even in the eighties, I was in New York and
the lad eies, and I was not living in that apartment.
Speaker 7 (09:17):
Exactly, huge apartment, neighbors right next door exactly.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
And I was actually also, you know something current.
Speaker 7 (09:26):
I was doing some market research for this, and I
sat down with a high school friend of mine and
I was like, Hey, what's cool in high school right now?
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Like, what's nostalgic for you?
Speaker 7 (09:36):
And they are obsessed with twenty sixteen because at that
point they were eight or nine years old, and that.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Was the era of the YouTube.
Speaker 7 (09:45):
Influencers, the rainbow filters on Instagram, house music, the Pink Wall.
We've got la at its peak, right, like those palm trees,
and so she was saying, like, yeah, high schoolers definitely
are longing for an era in which we never experienced.
And part of that is because of the resurgence of
(10:06):
house music now and also this lack of core influencers
or core superstars because social media is everywhere.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
They're like, we missed the YouTuber era.
Speaker 7 (10:18):
We missed these influencers that had millions of followers that
everybody was talking about, and we never got to live
through that or experience that. And so we're definitely seeing
this longing transcend beyond gen Z and kind of trickle
down into gen Alfa.
Speaker 8 (10:32):
Almost YouTubers are nostalgic now. I am legit old.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
That's a really good sheut though.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
I mean, I really gravitate to this idea of like
a simper time because in the nineties and late nineties
things weren't simple at all, Like there was so much happening,
Like there was like geopolitical things happening. We were like
bombing other countries, Like these were like really like there
was a lot of discourse around gay relationships. Hip hop
(11:04):
was like trying to push through all these things that
were happening that didn't seem simple at all.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
But yet you look back and go.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Man, those are some pretty good times. I liken it
to like relationships. You go, man, I really loved her.
She was so great to me. Oh she was so good.
But when you alre together there you hated her. It's like, yeah,
argued all the time. All we do is think about
like sort of the warm and fuzzy stuffs that we experience.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Well, our brains do that, right we I think there's
some stat around, like in psychology where we tend to
like process and remember the good. That's right, completely gloss
over probably the eight reasons you broke up, right.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
But to see a life that you didn't live and go, man,
those are some good times.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
That's a really powerful thing.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Like you look back at it, go, it's simpler than
it is now. And I suppose that it's just a
signal that the world has continued to get priestly more complex.
So what was simple for life you didn't live, or
that was complicated then feels far slople than it is
for you today, Hanna, what about you? What do you
feel nostalgic for for it exist is that you didn't
(12:12):
actually experience.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
I honestly think you really hit the nail on the head.
Speaker 6 (12:16):
Because when I think of like YouTubers and stuff like that,
I also am like in a long gang. I guess
you could say for like honestly the time where you
could have gotten involved in it, because now, like I
remember last episode we were talking about how content creators
like that's like one of the most sought after careers
because now it's in like the saturated market super hard
to get into. It's so lucrative and like at the time,
(12:39):
like that's like your simpler time of like I totally
could have gotten into it. I could have done these
like awful hotpank edits on my videos, which is true
because that is significantly like more simple than it is now.
I think where I express my like desire to be
a part of a generation where like I'm not is
definitely like through my clothes and stuff. I think that's
(13:00):
least cycles of things like that, like I'm a huge, baggy,
g lower rise type of person. In high school, I
definitely would have not worn that, Like that was not
the generation that, like I was trying to correlate myself to.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
I think, like right now, I'm at.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
The point where, like I'm trying to look older, I'm
trying to connect with like different demographics, Like I don't
really care anymore.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
So I don't know that is super interesting. I'm so
surprised that high schoolers feel that way, like almost makes
me sad.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
It's like long for an era that's even different from that,
Like you should be going way further back.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
Why are you stopping in twenty sixteen? Keep going?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
And I head to you just kind of slap me
in the face right now because I think about my wardrobe.
I dress like nineteen sixties ivy prep like this exact,
that's all.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
That's the world.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I didn't exist it, Like I didn't like experience that.
And then like Carlton Banks from Freshpets of bell Air,
but like that wasn't like my existence. But I see
that stuff and I go, man, like I like that.
Like that to me, like that feels timeless. So even
when pants get baggy, I still wear very close taper.
She knows they'll go out of style.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, Gailed, what about you?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Are the things that you feel sort of like nostalgic
for that you didn't experience.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
I went through like all these nostalgia phases of like
old movies. And there used to be this little video
store back when we got movies and boxes and cassettes
and you know VCRs.
Speaker 8 (14:23):
And there was this British woman, missus Hudson's Video.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Library in New York when I first moved there, and
she just did the most amazing curation.
Speaker 8 (14:32):
So like you'd go in one week and it was
like Hitchcock Week.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Right, and it was like, oh my god, this is
so fascinating horror movies.
Speaker 8 (14:39):
But like they were so different, right. I grew up
with like you know, Friday and Thirteenth and Scream, and
this was so different.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
It was like such simple, like I love the art
of those movies and just creating fear with the simple
cinematography and music.
Speaker 8 (14:55):
And you know, there'd be Audrey Hepburn Week and you'd
be like, oh my god, that's a life I would
I'd love to have lived.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
And there is just some glamour to that, like error
and that breakfast at Tiffany's. Kind of like time that
was so different as I was, I was living the
you know, baggy jeans and eighties, you know life in
New York.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
That raises a really good point though.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You know, in the industry, markets talk about borrow nostalgia, like, yeah,
let's take from these things and we leverage that equity
to bring something forward. So to your point, taking films
from yesteryear and curating them says something about your taste,
which I would argue is like the last bashion of
humanity in an AI driven world, your ability to curate
(15:39):
and say what belongs to something else is a value
that can't be so duplicated. Right, But I think about like, oh,
does that cre opportunities for brands. For instance, Gap is
doing their whole campaign now bringing back nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, they're taking.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
A time almost like a time capsule and providing a
point of view for today. We've seen brands do this,
I think interestingly. I say, Gap is an example of that. Yeah,
but we've also seen this done like poorly. I think
about Woodstock. Do you remember like Woodstock two point zero? Yeah,
there's woodstock that we know from the sixties, I think
think in the early two thousands they tried to recreate
(16:15):
a woodstock like thing and it was a tragedy.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
It was a catastrophe. It was terrible.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So I guess the question that's coming through my mind
is that are there examples of the things today that
feel current, but are hearkening back to things from the past,
Either things that you've lived, experience that you live, are
things that you had not lived, i e. Gap bringing
back the nineties esthetic.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
The indeeda somba couldn't exactly pizza hut, going back to
like the picnic table tablecloths.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
And like the salad bar and all the red cups,
all these things that are harkening from a times past,
or even burger King their iconography is going back to
the old school burri king. Hannah, are you are you
feeling this barrel nostalgia? Is it resonating with you?
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Definitely?
Speaker 6 (17:09):
I also think it's really cool that you like bring
out the AI stuff because I don't know if you
guys are familiar with the term AI.
Speaker 8 (17:15):
Slop, Yeah, very familiar.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
Yeah, Yeah, I mean it's like so obvious when like
this authenticity has just been like taken away from the
brand so I do feel a sense of appreciation, not
a sense of a brand trying to be something they're
not when they're just going back to their roots, because
I think, like, right now, we've gotten so far on
the spectrum of like that AI slop and things that
(17:38):
are so inauthentic that going to something that's like really.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
The core of the brand and rehighlighting that, like, I
appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
I long for it because I'm like so desperate at
this point to like not see that AI thing anymore. Yeah,
So I think that's like super cool. And I also
would have to say that I think brands are kind
of doing it in a way that's supernatural to the
current it's going against. Like no one's like going out
there being like we're not AI. Stop, like look at
what we're doing. Like they're just doing it because also
(18:09):
a key point here is that they have the history
to back it up.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
And I think that's the.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
Really like key thing with nostalgia and like how we
can choose like what works for us. Like, for example,
like I love listening to the Beatles, and like when
I look at the Beatles like historically, I'm like, oh,
their fan base does kind of resonate with like who
I am, Like I am this generation's version of like
more of like a hippie like granola type girl like whatever,
(18:34):
And I'm like, oh, that's what people then listen to,
So this makes sense for me to grab onto And
it's like that twofold issue of they're also authentic, like
I know, like historically, like they use the resources available
to them.
Speaker 5 (18:46):
It wasn't this AI stuff.
Speaker 6 (18:47):
So they're kind of like hitting those two check marks
of like authenticity, having a good historical representation that like
those things can go with the current and like feel
natural for us not to like borrow the nostalgia up
but instead like make it a part of our new
own identity.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, as you mentioned the Beatles not for nothing.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
I have a reminder set on my calendar for ten
am tomorrow because jodases tickets going sell. Joonasa has celebrated
the thirty fifth year of their first album Forever My
Lady and I will one thousand percent be there when
they're hearing Detroit. Like these ideas like repackaging old albums
for contemporary time, and those guys.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Go on tour for it, people show up.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
It creates such great opportunities for brands in my view,
and I'm very curious here take Gail, but I want
to hear from you first, Aria, I was so much
opportunity for brands to go, hey, we're not going to
just borrow from the nostalgia, We're going to contribute to it.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Are you talk to us?
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Are there any borrow nostalgia activations or expressions that you've
see in the marketplace now that you're like, oh, yeah,
I'm filling that or are you seeing them and rolling
your eyes?
Speaker 7 (19:57):
I think in general, with a lot of the campaigns
that I've seen with.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Gap, they're doing it.
Speaker 7 (20:03):
Really well for gen Z and you know with Kat's
Eye and Milkshake as the song, like that was something
that we grew up with all throughout middle school. Hannah,
I don't know if you relate to this, but like
singing that song in middle school in the hallways and
kind of like joking with your friends about it.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
You know what's sad about that?
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Aria, I'm sorry to cut you off, but what's sad
about that is that when I saw the commercial and
they're playing milkshake, it didn't feel like an old song
to be at all.
Speaker 8 (20:29):
It was like this yeah, it does. It's still hits.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, this song is like twenty something years old.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Like I was like to, I just came out right
good grief, it is, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 7 (20:40):
Well, I mean, I think that's a great point, Professor
Collins is that like nostalgia also taps into these moments
that are always iconic, and so maybe it's not necessarily
bringing in something that's new or trying to start a
new trend.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
It's almost just like.
Speaker 7 (20:55):
Pulling a hidden gym that's been buried through years and
years and like putting the spot back on it. And
so I think nostalgia really does work in marketing when
the product that you're trying to promote is something that
is iconic and is timeless. To me, low rise genes
have always been iconic and timeless. Sambas have always been
iconic and timeless.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
There are trend.
Speaker 7 (21:15):
Cycles that go back and forth, of course, but you know,
the resurgence of them I think is because of their history,
because they are icons. And then we also talk about
how people are really resistant to change, and so with nostalgia,
we're tapping into something that's novel, right, Like Hannah and
I have never experienced the era of friends of Beatles,
(21:36):
but it's also familiar, like something about it maybe reminds
us of when our parents used to play it in
the car when we'rely three four years old. And so
that's really the golden spot that you want to be
hitting as a marketer, right, that novelty that's familiar, no hardship,
no friction looking back in nostalgia as something that's a
simpler time, like, that's really the golden spot. So that's
(21:58):
what I think works really well with nostalgent marketing. However,
there's something that I think needs to be cautioned against
tell and I don't think nostalgia always works because again
with the market research of the high schooler is talking to.
She was like, yeah, Gap is not a cool brand
in high school, like at all, and that cats i
Ad kind of made it.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
Worse for them. And I was like, WHOA tell me more.
Speaker 7 (22:21):
Like that's crazy because I feel like for us in college,
Gap is the place to go for business casual for
those genes, they've really made a resurgence for us. She
was saying, like, our perception of cats Eye and that
song is totally different because we didn't grow up singing
that in middle school. We think Katsi is maybe a
(22:41):
little bit of like a childish girl group, even like
we don't really listen to their music.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
We don't think they're cool, and so when you're missing
that timeline where.
Speaker 7 (22:53):
The nostalgia doesn't hit for them, it can come off
completely different.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
That's all we talk about in class. Professor Collins is
like culture.
Speaker 7 (23:00):
Is based on how we think about it, right, So
like for them it's totally different, and they're like, we
think of Gap as a childish brand and we don't
want to wear it because of that.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
So interesting, right, because it's the age difference, and I
think that's where marketers. It's so hard to get that
window right because you know at iHeart jingle Ball is
a phenomenon for us, right, and so many brands partner
with us, And it's really interesting because it's like we
think of it as a teen event, but in a
lot of ways, the sweet spot is the preteen and
(23:33):
the mom who are having this shared moment of pop music.
And it's so interesting because we're always talking to brands
about who they want to reach and how to use
that show in the right way, and sometimes like you
could hit a fourteen year old and you could hit
a you know, millennial mom of that fourteen year old,
and you might miss the teen right in the middle, who,
(23:56):
like you're saying, is seeing it as oh, that's a
kid's thing or that's a mom thing. It's very hard
to find something that's multi generational and threads all the
way through. And that's where you got to really think
hard about which is the target. Like GAP's doing great,
right and they're winning you know, your generation, and they're growing,
(24:17):
so probably Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
This is why marketing is hard af I mean, this
is this right here. I mean it's a very challenging,
challenging thing. Shout out to all you cmos get we
see you, we see you.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Total empathy, we feel you, total empathy totally.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
So you know what, it's got me thinking, and like Gail,
you started pushing this thing here that like, there are
very few things that are ubiquitous across everything, right.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Like, there are very few artists they are ubiquitous.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Like, but the only thing I would say that has
that level of gravitas is really technology. But even still,
when it comes to technology, there are swast of population
that are harkening back to a simpler time. They're like man, like,
you know, social networking platforms, they have all this, you know,
these challenges to them.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I just want them something simple.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
And we see within gen Z people using dumb phones,
the flip phones. So I guess my question for you
Aria and Hanna is technology acting in line with our
general nostalgia for the media that we consume, the things
that we wear, the things that we eat, what we
expect of a dormant and esthetics one hundred percent.
Speaker 6 (25:42):
I think that everything's leaning on the side of simplicity,
and like it kind of goes back to the beginning
of our conversation of like maybe.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
That's like the root cause of nostalgia. Like looking I
mean even.
Speaker 6 (25:53):
Now me looking at college, like I'm not really like
longing for failing at test again, and I'm like, I
want the simplicity of what college will.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Like you ever failed it.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
You didn't see me in math, you saw me in marketing, douche.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
And I think Henny actually raise a good point said
there's a want for simplicity that doesn't always mean convenience.
And I think that when we think about technology, we
try to optimize for convenience because like that's where the
value is. But in some cases, the trade off for
convenience is so great that you go, I just wanted
(26:28):
to be simpler, right.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
People forget that that's actually like a core idea of AI,
even like AI at its core, like even though it's
producing things up you know, we may not agree with,
especially from like a marketing perspective of like AI slop
and what online.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
We embraced the AI, we embraced the eye with you.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Yeah, it's doing some really cool things. That's like really
benefiting humanity.
Speaker 6 (26:48):
And also like at this point, there's so much like
AI integrated and even my iPhone that I'm not sure
if I could revert and go back without it. I
want those features, but I don't want to have like
a robot like in front of me. And I think
that's why people are going back, Like even with these
flip phones, Like if you look at the difference between
the flip phones now that they're reproducing versus the ones
(27:09):
back then, Like the flip phones have better keyboards now
and like they have that souff.
Speaker 8 (27:13):
You don't want to go back to triple.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Tap right now that's coming, but we have the tech reason.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
That was both inconvenient and not simple exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
But Ario will say you on the technology side, well.
Speaker 7 (27:28):
As a photographer and an artist, I love going back
to analog and things that are simpler, so I actually
have cyanotypes behind me, even which is a very physical
process of like going out in the sun and doing
things with your hands. And I think with the rise
of AI, we're seeing a lot of artists push against
that by leaning into physical processes like film that can
(27:54):
only be done analog in a dark room, processed by
hand with these chemist coals, with the knowledge, and then
you know, once photographers get on that train, that's how
subculture becomes pop culture, right of like media is now
consuming this, people are consuming this.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
They want to hop on the trends and so film.
Speaker 7 (28:12):
Cameras, digital cameras, vhs, it's all coming back camelors even
but it's very interesting because some of it comes off
a little performative to me, even where it's like I
don't think a lot of these people their intention is to.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Get off the Internet and completely disconnect.
Speaker 7 (28:32):
It almost seems like they want to signal that they
understand that this is some sort of taste, some sort
of niche style, but then also go right back on Instagram,
and post those digital photos, post that film, post that
they have a film camera.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
So there's an interesting kind.
Speaker 7 (28:49):
Of paradox that you have here of like people seem
like they want to disconnect, but also they're posting about
disconnecting on social media and are constantly on it.
Speaker 6 (28:59):
That's so true to add on to that, like especially
seeing it in a college setting, Like when I determine
if like someone I'm seeing is like performative or not.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
It's like does it match their whole being? Like you
really have to put like.
Speaker 8 (29:12):
Your whole field look sexy with this old school camera.
Speaker 6 (29:15):
It's like are you wearing the stuff to match that? Like,
oh you do that? Are you listening to the music
of that generation? Like you kind of have to clock
like everything, And I think that Gen D's definitely like
trying to do that, like they are trying to make
their whole being.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
Whatever aesthetic they choose.
Speaker 6 (29:31):
And if that's AI and like new tech, like you
can tell the people who are like totally embracing it,
like they have super clean backpacks like all of this
like whatever like.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
They're posting it, I think, are it totally hit that?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
So you know, we would talk a lot about like
the consumption of media, what we wear, the products that
we use, the technology that we use.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Where it kind of makes me wonder now is experiences.
For instance, you know in the eighties nineties, there was.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
A really big like club scene, this is all about
going to the club popping bottles like that was just
the thing that you did. But what we're seeing more
and more now is a different nightlife experience. People are
going to like speakeasies or are going to listening net lounges.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
It's a different sort of feel like.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Do you all think back to like, yeah, what it
pops some crystal and put the sprinklers up and do
the whole thing like sparklers up.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
It's like, is that the things that's kind of going
through your minds at all?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Or do you feel like not that existence is not
the one that we look to for sort of emotional
want fomo if you will, And we just choose to
have a different experience all together. So I guess our
experiences were driving nostalgia or is it our ability to
extract experiences that gives us nostalgic feelings.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
I think it's the latter, And I would add on
to it that it's super value s based.
Speaker 6 (30:58):
I think that something that we've been talking about a
lot is that like gen Z really values like longevity.
In another episode, we talked about how like there's kind
of things that are out of reach for gen Z
from a monetary perspective.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
A lot of the times.
Speaker 6 (31:12):
We're reinvesting, like in ourselves and whatnot. And so for
like the clubbing example, it kind of rejects a core
gen Z value right now of like going to bed
early so that you could join the run club in
the morning.
Speaker 5 (31:24):
Like those are super popular stuff like that. So I
will say that there is like a population.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
Where like when I turn twenty one, like I wanted
to do all those things because that's what the generations
before me did, and I was like, that's super cool.
But then once I got like those few months out
of my system and like kind of got intrinsic to
my own values, I would say that nostalgia has smatter
our value system.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
That's a powerful take.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
It's so interesting that the nostalgia, you know, is just
looking at some of pronav from neuro Insights, Right, he's
just super smart. He's eurosteady stuff, and he's always saying
like nine percent of marketing ninety percent of what we
remember is total subconscious And I think nostalgia, Hannah, what
you're getting at is so interesting because I think nostalgia
(32:10):
takes subconscious connections and makes them conscious.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Right.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
You hear that song, you see those genes from junior high,
and it just you have a place to connect the two.
And I think there's something about nostalgia that takes an emotion,
a subconscious feeling, and connects it to a memory.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Your absolutely spot on. Those experiences get tattooed to our
amygdala and hippocampus, right, And those systems in the brain
are not only associated with memory, but also feeling, and
because of what we feel, we end up acting accordingly. Right,
those things are all associated with the Olympic system. Our
emotions are tagged, are catalyzed by our memories, which ultimately
(32:52):
drive decisions that we make, and we can't communicate it. It
doesn't feel rational or logical because that resides another part
of the brain we know, is the neural cortex, Right,
Like these things are operating in concerts sort of trying
to decide who leads.
Speaker 8 (33:08):
What I guess, does it work? Does it work with nostalgia?
Speaker 3 (33:12):
You know, Hannah, you were saying, like Beatles, right, like
you discovered the Beatles. Now if somebody puts Beetles into
their marketing, is that going to now trigger you have
this new memory even though you didn't live.
Speaker 8 (33:22):
It way back when.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
But does it trigger some emotion that makes you pay
attention more?
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Yeah, that's super true.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
And again I would like reharp on the idea of
the authenticity of like what the brand is promoting, so
like going back to like.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
Old logos and stuff like that, Like I.
Speaker 6 (33:39):
Think that's a signal of saying, like we're still aus
this is what we do. And so like I think
being able to project your values with that type of stuff,
and like being able to correlate the two authentic like
ways of Like for example, if I heard a commercial
with the Beatles playing, I'd be like, oh, that represents me,
because here are the values of using like old music
and not how like AI incorporated into it whatever. Because
(34:02):
at the end of the day, like there's also some
nostalgic brands that I wouldn't go back onto, like in
the brief with like Pizza Hut and stuff like that,
Like those values.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
Don't align with me anymore.
Speaker 6 (34:12):
They could do a rebrand, like I totally grew up
with it, but like I'm going to be a pizza snob.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
Like it's just some things of like is it really
going to carry on with me?
Speaker 2 (34:20):
So Ari, you put a ball in this for us.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
We talk about like going out, are you hearkening for
a time of yesteryear that maybe you didn't experience or
do you feel more at home with the like curated
experiences that like feel more of today and less of yesterday.
Speaker 7 (34:38):
I would say with experiences, it does feel a bit
harder to tie that to nostalgia, especially with experiences that
I've never personally had. And so when you're talking about,
you know, going clubbing or popping bottles, like bottle service
is just out of my my field of imagination, even
(34:58):
like I've never experienced that.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
I think it's way out of my budget.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Probably it's insane. It was out of everyone's budget. It
was an absurd error.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Like so why if you go back to music videos
you'd feel you'd want some of that?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
It was crazy?
Speaker 4 (35:16):
You know, maybe I do need I need to go
back to the YouTube era. I go back to the
music videos totally.
Speaker 7 (35:20):
But I think with experiences it does feel a little
bit harder to connect or to really aspire to do
something like that and like really push myself to take
action on it.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
Like I think with nostalgia, it.
Speaker 7 (35:34):
Really is a lot in our heads and Gail, as
you were saying, it's very emotionally driven, and so it's
almost this feeling and maybe not always this want for action.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
And so I think that's why it might work better when.
Speaker 7 (35:48):
We're talking about a product or a song and not
something that's purely a service or an experience, because you know,
we when we buy that product, we then have that
physical association tied to the memory, as opposed to an
experience where I feel like I have to go through
more barriers to go through that, and like, you know,
really stand in line to go club in like you said.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Are call it and that's just not as appealing to me.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
It goes back to like our conversation in the last
episode about lines and stuff. Right, It's like, right, it's
like waiting in line is earning it, right, I think Canada,
your point of it's not just can I drop.
Speaker 8 (36:25):
A Hondo at a club and have bottle service?
Speaker 3 (36:27):
It's a have I picked the right bar and have
I looked at this hand drawn menu and this this,
you know, somebody put this concoction together that's new, but
based in something from the twenties. Part of the nostalgia
I think that threads through is these things that are artisanal,
the valuing, the making of right, touching the vinyl, taking
(36:51):
the picture with.
Speaker 8 (36:52):
Film, all of those things.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
There's something about the physicality two of these things totally.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I think that campaign that Polaroid is doing right now,
we're doing for the last year, I think it's just
absolutely brilliant. You know, it's like get some sand between
your toes, you know, sort of these tactile things that
can't be captured in zeros and ones but can only
really be experienced live and then captured in a very
analogue sort of way through Polaroid. And like my kids
(37:20):
use Polaroid cameras and they feel like the photos matter
a little bit more when there's more scarcity, and therefore
they're more judicious about the photos that they take, and
therefore we have more meaning. We're nearing to the end here,
and I guess instead of doing like our normal speed round,
I guess we have one real question when it comes
(37:40):
to brands engaging in nostalgia do you care or don't you?
And if you do, what needs to happen. One needs
to be satisfied to make it work. And if you don't,
is there any opportunity there that marketers have yet to
really unpack the first question? I'll start with you, Hannah care,
(38:01):
I don't care. Should brands be leveraging nostalgia? Care don't care?
Speaker 6 (38:06):
I definitely care, and I think that it just hits
a lot of boxes for me. It's not necessarily that
they can't engage in like UX principles that are more
modern and stuff like that. I care because I think nostalgia,
like I said, represents a the history I know, Like
I can look back and be like, if it's not broken,
I don't need to fix it.
Speaker 5 (38:26):
So I feel confident in this brand. It's never been broken.
Speaker 6 (38:29):
Yeah, And I think overall, yeah, it like points itself
as a place in history that I can feed into.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
So you care, and it works when those things fill
align and authentic right totally.
Speaker 5 (38:41):
Because you can't.
Speaker 6 (38:42):
I don't think you can rebrand yourself like trying to
hit like let's say your brand and you had X
population for however long and now it's been forty years later,
and you're trying to get them again. There's still some
stuff that you're going to have to hit with the
status like yeah, like I mentioned, like our technology and
stuff is too advanced.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
You can't bring us back to be doing more work,
but you.
Speaker 6 (39:02):
Can hit all the same values that you represented at
that time that brought people in in the first place.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
That's a really good shout. Now.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
I wonder if, like in shitification plays a role in
this too, that when you go back to the way
things were, like man, this is much better than the
things work now, or if like the product was ever
really that good.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
You know, I feel like there is some danger there
that like.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
You go back with like all this like great, great
feeling about it, and then when you experience it again,
you go, ugh, that sucked, Like my memories were better
than the experience. So, Hannah, if you're saying that you
do care to this opportunity there, that's another thing to
think about is that you can screw up the nostalgia
(39:46):
because the expectations are so high.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
The main point is that you have to match the
error that you're in.
Speaker 6 (39:51):
Like, respectfully, I've gone back to like even like old
apps like I love Tumble Run I don't know if
you guys remember that, ye I had like an odd
for it or something like that, and I like redownloaded.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
It and I could definitely tell that it was back.
Speaker 6 (40:03):
Then, and like I appreciate now the technological advances. So
for brands of any kind to rematch me in the era,
it has to hit the simplicity markers, and simplicity now
looks different.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
It tasted good then.
Speaker 6 (40:17):
If they wanted to hit you again, like they needed
to be using like new ingredients and stuff like that
to match you in the era that you're in without
compromising what it's trying to represent at its core.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
That's a really really good shout, Aria, take us home.
Care don't care nostalgia? Do you care that brands are
leveraging it or don't you care?
Speaker 4 (40:38):
Absolutely I care. I think it's very very powerful.
Speaker 7 (40:40):
I mean, we're seeing gen Z really resonate with it emotionally.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
And I think exactly what all of you are saying, right,
Nostalgia is very powerful.
Speaker 7 (40:50):
But if you have a bad product, it's not going
to be able to save bit. So you know, meeting
at that level, really making sure you are meeting those
expectations because constantly we are looking back at our childhood
or at our memories.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
With rose colored glasses, So how.
Speaker 7 (41:05):
Can you kind of match that in the era now
and make sure that you are meeting consumers with that
expectation and from there you don't want to get stuck
in the past either. I think a campaign is really
really good to bring that attention back. Like I said before,
you know, rediscover that hidden gym, uncover it from the dirt,
and shine a spotlight on it. But then moving forward,
(41:27):
like let's talk about how we can continue to innovate,
continue to take a stance, continue to build on our values,
and continue this campaign to really reach new generations. I
think this stallge is a great way to capture the
attention of one generation. For example, let's go back to
gap like capture college students, and then after that, hopefully
moving forward with other campaigns, you can have that trickle
(41:50):
down effect into high schoolers with campaigns that feel a
little bit more.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
Modern, feel more cool, feel more aspirational, not.
Speaker 7 (41:57):
Really holding back on that era of as that they're
not really resonating with.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
Then the final thing that I want to say with.
Speaker 7 (42:04):
Nostalgia is that there's definitely ways that you can do
it right, and there's lots of ways you can do
it wrong, and so I just want to be really clear.
And when I'm seeing these nostalgic campaigns, I'm really hoping
that these brands are tapping into a very niche and
personal human experience for me. And back to the Pizza Hut,
(42:27):
Like them transforming their restaurants doesn't do a lot for
me because as a child, I wasn't going in and
doing a sit down eaten. I was still buying delivery
and eating out. So I think for a fun campaign
that feels nostalgic to me, Like one of my favorite
memories is ordering Pizza Hut for the Super Bowl. So
(42:47):
the highlight for me was the Pizza Hut that got
delivered that I got to eat with my family in
the living room.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
And so if you can really tap into.
Speaker 7 (42:56):
Those deep grooves and those deep memories and really make
a consumer feel like, wow, this is something that I experienced.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
I almost forgot about.
Speaker 7 (43:05):
But thinking back to it, like I feel very emotionally
tied to it. I think that's the best way that
you can do nostalgia, and maybe brands are missing the
mark there. So I would just encourage like a really
deep dive into human experiences.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
I love, love, love this.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
It's like nostalgia is so powerful, but it comes with
a cost.
Speaker 8 (43:28):
Yeah, and I think you guys both said it. There's
got to be an authenticity to it. Anybody could just
pay music.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Rights and drop a song into their ad and just
trying to claim nostalgia. But like I think Gaps hitting
now and they're doing a really good job of they're
not just doing nostalgia right, and they're going into nostalgia
and old music. But they have a right to play
in the nineties. They own the nineties, right, So now
that that's on brand, it makes sense. But maybe it
(43:55):
wouldn't make sense if a competitor to Gap were to
come in and say we're going d into the nineties
and we're going to appropriate all of that look and
feel and music, and it might not work.
Speaker 5 (44:06):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
It feels like you have to have a right to
jump into that nostalgia, which is you have to have
that love for it totally.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
This requires a level of intimacy to understand the context
back then and what it means today.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Well said Hannah Aria.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
As always, you all never cease to impress. Thank you
so very much for being with us on Market says
hipping us to game so that we might understand what's
going on in the market, and that the marketers who
are listening to this podcast and watching us on YouTube,
that they too can walk away a little bit smarter
as Gail and I always do every week. So thank
(44:43):
you all so very much, and to our audience, thanks
for joining us for another episode of Market, says Cale.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
I want to say anything does to people.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Hannah Aria, thank you. You guys make us smarter every
time we show up for this show. You throw a
lot of warnings out there for brands. Right I'm sure
there's people sitting there thinking about their fall campaigns, their
holiday campaigns right now, and nostalgia is on the table.
So marketers out there, if you're going to go there,
make sure you go there with truth and authenticity. And
(45:13):
if you're gonna nostalgia or old stalgia, do it with
respect and love and a real reason why.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Amen, the market has spoken. I hope that you're listening.
See you next time.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Peace Market says.
Speaker 8 (45:27):
It's a bubblo media.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
iHeart podcast production.
Speaker 8 (45:30):
If you're not in the conversation, you're not in the game.
My eldest daughter, Georgia is obsessed with Full House, like
she's been watching it over and over and over. When
I came into the house yesterday from work, I saw
the television on pause and now she's watching Family Matters,
and I'm like, what the road is going on here?
I started thinking to myself as like, well, when I
(00:36):
was growing up, what were the shows that I watched?
And I don't know about for you, Gail, but like
I was watching Different Strokes, which was like around in
the eighties, so I was like my error. But I
was also watching like Sanford and Son and Good Times,
and like these were shows that like predate me. So
I'm like living experience that isn't my own. So I
(00:57):
think about like Georgia's watching Habits and she watched things
that were contemporary too, just like I did think about
my watching Habits when I was her age. And then
I saw this stat from Vivo that said sixty five
percent of gen Z's filled nostalgia for errors they never lived,
and I go, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
This is a thing.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So I can't help but wonder, why does any of
this click with you, Gail?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
One hundred percent?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I mean, because I think there were some old shows
that used to get like played forever because they were
cheap to air, Brady Bunch, Gilligan's Island, and it was
because they have to pay the actors every time you
run a thing. Laws changed right after those shows from
the seventies. Oh so I grew up on the Brady
Bunch and then when my first PR jobs, I ended
(01:47):
up traveling to thirty cities in America with Maureen McCormick,
who played Marcia. And it was the weirdest thing seeing
all of these different generations of old people and young
people who were obsessed with Marcia Brady was it was
so cool.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Marha mar Marshall.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Completely hard to understand. But I think there's some human
truths too. I think I think comedy holds up really well,
right because like a family sitcom, like family drama is
family drama, Being you know, five is being five, Being
fifteen is being fifteen. I think there's some when when
content's based in human truths. I do think it can persist.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I mean, that's so true.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
And I watched Leave It to Beaver, watched the Andy
Griffin show like this is why I Dream a Genie,
Like all those shows, like I watched all those shows,
and I think you're right. There is a consistency to
the human truth, even though the context changes. So of
course that's just us and our experience. But we want
(02:45):
to know what the market says. So thankfully we've got
two representatives of the market, two bright, bright brains of.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
The University of Michigan.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
So obviously that Hannah and Ario, with this welcome to
market says we are ready to be in light by you.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Thank you for being with us today.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yeah, thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Happy to be back.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Thank you. Let's talk nostalgia for a moment.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It's interesting the literature talks about nostalgia being a mental
condition that I guess come from German roots to say
that it was considered an illness that you couldn't get
past the past. But now we think of nostalgia, it's
just like really warm and fuzzy thing. I feel nostalgic
for a thing. So I guess my question to get
(03:32):
us started, Aria, Hannah, is when you think about nostalgia,
what era in life do you feel nostalgic for.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
I can start with that one.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, first of all, that's so cool.
Speaker 6 (03:43):
I didn't know that it used to be referred to
as that sickening feeling. And typically I do feel warm
and fuzzy when I'm like looking back on stuff, but
I just graduated, and so like now, when I'm looking
back at college, I'm getting that sickening feeling where I'm like,
oh my god, I cannot believe that that's.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
Not going to happen again.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
So that feels super validating that there were doctors like
understood what I'm coming from. So definitely my college era
right now, I already feel super nostalgic about that. And honestly,
like I think high school too, I wouldn't say that
I feel like a sense of nostalgia for like my
true youth, and I think it's because I don't really
remember it. I think high school like I have more
(04:23):
of those formative memories that.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
I can be nostalgic for.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Let you are you.
Speaker 7 (04:28):
Definitely, like Hannah, college has been at the forefront of
my mind, which is so sad. I feel just washed
up now and that you know, I'm I'm not able
to experience that.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, exactly, Welcome to the real world, baby.
Speaker 7 (04:45):
But I mean with the summer, I definitely every year
feel nostalgic for my childhood when I was seven or
eight years old, going to my best friend's house, jumping
on the trampoline outside, even the small moments of looking
through the trampoline netting and seeing below the trampoline is
a very specific memory for me.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
I think, honestly, just just.
Speaker 7 (05:09):
Romanticizing my childhood is very common for me, Like being outside,
being in those simpler times, and then you know, running
inside and eating a bowl of mac and cheese that
was made by somebody.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
It's great, And just thinking about that now, you know, now.
Speaker 7 (05:22):
That I'm in the city and not near tons of
green or nature close to my childhood friends, I definitely
feel that emotional staying a bit and that longing for
a simpler childhood.
Speaker 5 (05:35):
It's so funny.
Speaker 8 (05:36):
I'm recording.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
I'm at a friend's house in the Hamptons right now,
and she's a psychologist, so it's telling her about this
episode to your German word origin. She was telling me
that the Buddhists think nostalgia is like a problem. It's
actually a longing for something that no longer exists. Yeah,
which I thought was fascinating. Right to your summer on
the trampoline, somebody bringing you a nice warm bowl of
(06:00):
mac and cheese, right.
Speaker 8 (06:02):
Like, we miss that thing.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
So it's almost like psychologically as we like lean into
whether it's music or toys or games or you know,
experiences or content, like are we trying to recreate a moment?
Speaker 5 (06:17):
You know?
Speaker 3 (06:18):
It's so interesting because I always I was with you guys,
like I always thought of it as warm and fuzzy.
Speaker 8 (06:22):
Isn't it lovely?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
But maybe we're in our psyche we're just longing for
something we can't have again.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I love that. It's like, let it go AHEADA college
is over, it's done, let.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
It go.
Speaker 8 (06:35):
Yeah, you just got like five decades of work ahead.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Isn't likely get excited for that? Gosh, I love this
conversation already.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
That's interesting about this is that I think about like
the things I feel nostalgic for, right Like.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I love the eighties, I love the nineties.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
I think about high school, like I think about these
sort of really like rich emotional moments. But then I
think about the content that I'm that I'm consuming today
that are actually from a life that I didn't live.
For instance, like right now, if you were to do
my Spotify rap today or the number one song would
(07:13):
probably be what a fool believes by the Doobie Brothers.
Like I love yacht rock. Yacht rock came out in
the late seventies. I was born in seventy nine, right,
so I did not experience that at all. I'm from Detroit,
so I was even in Los Angeles when these guys
were writing, so like Steely Dan, Michael McDonald, Kenny Loggins,
Christopher Cross, Like, I didn't know these guys. Those songs
(07:35):
weren't on the radio when I was a kid. But
yet I feel so connected to this music. So I
ask of you all, we know what's you're nostalgic for
for things that you've lived. Are there things that you're
consuming that's not from your error? Like are you doing throwbacks?
Like Stranger Things is a good example, Like we're watching
Stranger Things, which a new piece of content, but it
(07:59):
was hearkening back to the eighties, Like are there things
that you're experiencing had an aria that feel like you
didn't live it, but it kind of feels like yours too.
Speaker 7 (08:09):
Maybe Yeah, absolutely, I'm on that yacht rock wave as well,
So Fleetwood, Mac, the Smiths, Americas, Deely Dan, all of
my favorites. And then I'm on my third rewatch of
friends as well. Oh yeah, I absolutely long for this
(08:29):
era that I never lived in, and I think it's
again longing for a simpler past.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
It's very easy with nostalgia.
Speaker 7 (08:39):
To think about the good things and not necessarily the
struggle of that generation or of that era. And when
we're experiencing so many hard things in our life now,
you know, politically or personally moving being postcrad, it's easy
to look back and watch friends and think, hey, their
(08:59):
life looks great, Like they just get to hang out
at a coffee shop every single day. They have cute haircuts,
great hairstyles, and they're just a group of friends, you know,
kiking and that's just something that I really long for.
Speaker 8 (09:11):
And a kick ass apartment.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Even in the eighties, I was in New York and
the lad eies, and I was not living in that apartment.
Speaker 7 (09:17):
Exactly, huge apartment, neighbors right next door exactly.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
And I was actually also, you know something current.
Speaker 7 (09:26):
I was doing some market research for this, and I
sat down with a high school friend of mine and
I was like, Hey, what's cool in high school right now?
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Like, what's nostalgic for you?
Speaker 7 (09:36):
And they are obsessed with twenty sixteen because at that
point they were eight or nine years old, and that.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Was the era of the YouTube.
Speaker 7 (09:45):
Influencers, the rainbow filters on Instagram, house music, the Pink Wall.
We've got la at its peak, right, like those palm trees,
and so she was saying, like, yeah, high schoolers definitely
are longing for an era in which we never experienced.
And part of that is because of the resurgence of
(10:06):
house music now and also this lack of core influencers
or core superstars because social media is everywhere.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
They're like, we missed the YouTuber era.
Speaker 7 (10:18):
We missed these influencers that had millions of followers that
everybody was talking about, and we never got to live
through that or experience that. And so we're definitely seeing
this longing transcend beyond gen Z and kind of trickle
down into gen Alfa.
Speaker 8 (10:32):
Almost YouTubers are nostalgic now. I am legit old.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
That's a really good sheut though.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
I mean, I really gravitate to this idea of like
a simper time because in the nineties and late nineties
things weren't simple at all, Like there was so much happening,
Like there was like geopolitical things happening. We were like
bombing other countries, Like these were like really like there
was a lot of discourse around gay relationships. Hip hop
(11:04):
was like trying to push through all these things that
were happening that didn't seem simple at all.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
But yet you look back and go.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Man, those are some pretty good times. I liken it
to like relationships. You go, man, I really loved her.
She was so great to me. Oh she was so good.
But when you alre together there you hated her. It's like, yeah,
argued all the time. All we do is think about
like sort of the warm and fuzzy stuffs that we experience.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Well, our brains do that, right we I think there's
some stat around, like in psychology where we tend to
like process and remember the good. That's right, completely gloss
over probably the eight reasons you broke up, right.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
But to see a life that you didn't live and go, man,
those are some good times.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
That's a really powerful thing.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Like you look back at it, go, it's simpler than
it is now. And I suppose that it's just a
signal that the world has continued to get priestly more complex.
So what was simple for life you didn't live, or
that was complicated then feels far slople than it is
for you today, Hanna, what about you? What do you
feel nostalgic for for it exist is that you didn't
(12:12):
actually experience.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
I honestly think you really hit the nail on the head.
Speaker 6 (12:16):
Because when I think of like YouTubers and stuff like that,
I also am like in a long gang. I guess
you could say for like honestly the time where you
could have gotten involved in it, because now, like I
remember last episode we were talking about how content creators
like that's like one of the most sought after careers
because now it's in like the saturated market super hard
to get into. It's so lucrative and like at the time,
(12:39):
like that's like your simpler time of like I totally
could have gotten into it. I could have done these
like awful hotpank edits on my videos, which is true
because that is significantly like more simple than it is now.
I think where I express my like desire to be
a part of a generation where like I'm not is
definitely like through my clothes and stuff. I think that's
(13:00):
least cycles of things like that, like I'm a huge, baggy,
g lower rise type of person. In high school, I
definitely would have not worn that, Like that was not
the generation that, like I was trying to correlate myself to.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
I think, like right now, I'm at.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
The point where, like I'm trying to look older, I'm
trying to connect with like different demographics, Like I don't
really care anymore.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
So I don't know that is super interesting. I'm so
surprised that high schoolers feel that way, like almost makes
me sad.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
It's like long for an era that's even different from that,
Like you should be going way further back.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
Why are you stopping in twenty sixteen? Keep going?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
And I head to you just kind of slap me
in the face right now because I think about my wardrobe.
I dress like nineteen sixties ivy prep like this exact,
that's all.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
That's the world.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I didn't exist it, Like I didn't like experience that.
And then like Carlton Banks from Freshpets of bell Air,
but like that wasn't like my existence. But I see
that stuff and I go, man, like I like that.
Like that to me, like that feels timeless. So even
when pants get baggy, I still wear very close taper.
She knows they'll go out of style.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, Gailed, what about you?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Are the things that you feel sort of like nostalgic
for that you didn't experience.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
I went through like all these nostalgia phases of like
old movies. And there used to be this little video
store back when we got movies and boxes and cassettes
and you know VCRs.
Speaker 8 (14:23):
And there was this British woman, missus Hudson's Video.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Library in New York when I first moved there, and
she just did the most amazing curation.
Speaker 8 (14:32):
So like you'd go in one week and it was
like Hitchcock Week.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Right, and it was like, oh my god, this is
so fascinating horror movies.
Speaker 8 (14:39):
But like they were so different, right. I grew up
with like you know, Friday and Thirteenth and Scream, and
this was so different.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
It was like such simple, like I love the art
of those movies and just creating fear with the simple
cinematography and music.
Speaker 8 (14:55):
And you know, there'd be Audrey Hepburn Week and you'd
be like, oh my god, that's a life I would
I'd love to have lived.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
And there is just some glamour to that, like error
and that breakfast at Tiffany's. Kind of like time that
was so different as I was, I was living the
you know, baggy jeans and eighties, you know life in
New York.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
That raises a really good point though.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You know, in the industry, markets talk about borrow nostalgia, like, yeah,
let's take from these things and we leverage that equity
to bring something forward. So to your point, taking films
from yesteryear and curating them says something about your taste,
which I would argue is like the last bashion of
humanity in an AI driven world, your ability to curate
(15:39):
and say what belongs to something else is a value
that can't be so duplicated. Right, But I think about like, oh,
does that cre opportunities for brands. For instance, Gap is
doing their whole campaign now bringing back nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, they're taking.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
A time almost like a time capsule and providing a
point of view for today. We've seen brands do this,
I think interestingly. I say, Gap is an example of that. Yeah,
but we've also seen this done like poorly. I think
about Woodstock. Do you remember like Woodstock two point zero? Yeah,
there's woodstock that we know from the sixties, I think
think in the early two thousands they tried to recreate
(16:15):
a woodstock like thing and it was a tragedy.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
It was a catastrophe. It was terrible.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So I guess the question that's coming through my mind
is that are there examples of the things today that
feel current, but are hearkening back to things from the past,
Either things that you've lived, experience that you live, are
things that you had not lived, i e. Gap bringing
back the nineties esthetic.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
The indeeda somba couldn't exactly pizza hut, going back to
like the picnic table tablecloths.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
And like the salad bar and all the red cups,
all these things that are harkening from a times past,
or even burger King their iconography is going back to
the old school burri king. Hannah, are you are you
feeling this barrel nostalgia? Is it resonating with you?
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Definitely?
Speaker 6 (17:09):
I also think it's really cool that you like bring
out the AI stuff because I don't know if you
guys are familiar with the term AI.
Speaker 8 (17:15):
Slop, Yeah, very familiar.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
Yeah, Yeah, I mean it's like so obvious when like
this authenticity has just been like taken away from the
brand so I do feel a sense of appreciation, not
a sense of a brand trying to be something they're
not when they're just going back to their roots, because
I think, like, right now, we've gotten so far on
the spectrum of like that AI slop and things that
(17:38):
are so inauthentic that going to something that's like really.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
The core of the brand and rehighlighting that, like, I
appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
I long for it because I'm like so desperate at
this point to like not see that AI thing anymore. Yeah,
So I think that's like super cool. And I also
would have to say that I think brands are kind
of doing it in a way that's supernatural to the
current it's going against. Like no one's like going out
there being like we're not AI. Stop, like look at
what we're doing. Like they're just doing it because also
(18:09):
a key point here is that they have the history
to back it up.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
And I think that's the.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
Really like key thing with nostalgia and like how we
can choose like what works for us. Like, for example,
like I love listening to the Beatles, and like when
I look at the Beatles like historically, I'm like, oh,
their fan base does kind of resonate with like who
I am, Like I am this generation's version of like
more of like a hippie like granola type girl like whatever,
(18:34):
And I'm like, oh, that's what people then listen to,
So this makes sense for me to grab onto And
it's like that twofold issue of they're also authentic, like
I know, like historically, like they use the resources available
to them.
Speaker 5 (18:46):
It wasn't this AI stuff.
Speaker 6 (18:47):
So they're kind of like hitting those two check marks
of like authenticity, having a good historical representation that like
those things can go with the current and like feel
natural for us not to like borrow the nostalgia up
but instead like make it a part of our new
own identity.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, as you mentioned the Beatles not for nothing.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
I have a reminder set on my calendar for ten
am tomorrow because jodases tickets going sell. Joonasa has celebrated
the thirty fifth year of their first album Forever My
Lady and I will one thousand percent be there when
they're hearing Detroit. Like these ideas like repackaging old albums
for contemporary time, and those guys.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Go on tour for it, people show up.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
It creates such great opportunities for brands in my view,
and I'm very curious here take Gail, but I want
to hear from you first, Aria, I was so much
opportunity for brands to go, hey, we're not going to
just borrow from the nostalgia, We're going to contribute to it.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Are you talk to us?
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Are there any borrow nostalgia activations or expressions that you've
see in the marketplace now that you're like, oh, yeah,
I'm filling that or are you seeing them and rolling
your eyes?
Speaker 7 (19:57):
I think in general, with a lot of the campaigns
that I've seen with.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Gap, they're doing it.
Speaker 7 (20:03):
Really well for gen Z and you know with Kat's
Eye and Milkshake as the song, like that was something
that we grew up with all throughout middle school. Hannah,
I don't know if you relate to this, but like
singing that song in middle school in the hallways and
kind of like joking with your friends about it.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
You know what's sad about that?
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Aria, I'm sorry to cut you off, but what's sad
about that is that when I saw the commercial and
they're playing milkshake, it didn't feel like an old song
to be at all.
Speaker 8 (20:29):
It was like this yeah, it does. It's still hits.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, this song is like twenty something years old.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Like I was like to, I just came out right
good grief, it is, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 7 (20:40):
Well, I mean, I think that's a great point, Professor
Collins is that like nostalgia also taps into these moments
that are always iconic, and so maybe it's not necessarily
bringing in something that's new or trying to start a
new trend.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
It's almost just like.
Speaker 7 (20:55):
Pulling a hidden gym that's been buried through years and
years and like putting the spot back on it. And
so I think nostalgia really does work in marketing when
the product that you're trying to promote is something that
is iconic and is timeless. To me, low rise genes
have always been iconic and timeless. Sambas have always been
iconic and timeless.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
There are trend.
Speaker 7 (21:15):
Cycles that go back and forth, of course, but you know,
the resurgence of them I think is because of their history,
because they are icons. And then we also talk about
how people are really resistant to change, and so with nostalgia,
we're tapping into something that's novel, right, Like Hannah and
I have never experienced the era of friends of Beatles,
(21:36):
but it's also familiar, like something about it maybe reminds
us of when our parents used to play it in
the car when we'rely three four years old. And so
that's really the golden spot that you want to be
hitting as a marketer, right, that novelty that's familiar, no hardship,
no friction looking back in nostalgia as something that's a
simpler time, like, that's really the golden spot. So that's
(21:58):
what I think works really well with nostalgent marketing. However,
there's something that I think needs to be cautioned against
tell and I don't think nostalgia always works because again
with the market research of the high schooler is talking to.
She was like, yeah, Gap is not a cool brand
in high school, like at all, and that cats i
Ad kind of made it.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
Worse for them. And I was like, WHOA tell me more.
Speaker 7 (22:21):
Like that's crazy because I feel like for us in college,
Gap is the place to go for business casual for
those genes, they've really made a resurgence for us. She
was saying, like, our perception of cats Eye and that
song is totally different because we didn't grow up singing
that in middle school. We think Katsi is maybe a
(22:41):
little bit of like a childish girl group, even like
we don't really listen to their music.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
We don't think they're cool, and so when you're missing
that timeline where.
Speaker 7 (22:53):
The nostalgia doesn't hit for them, it can come off
completely different.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
That's all we talk about in class. Professor Collins is
like culture.
Speaker 7 (23:00):
Is based on how we think about it, right, So
like for them it's totally different, and they're like, we
think of Gap as a childish brand and we don't
want to wear it because of that.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
So interesting, right, because it's the age difference, and I
think that's where marketers. It's so hard to get that
window right because you know at iHeart jingle Ball is
a phenomenon for us, right, and so many brands partner
with us, And it's really interesting because it's like we
think of it as a teen event, but in a
lot of ways, the sweet spot is the preteen and
(23:33):
the mom who are having this shared moment of pop music.
And it's so interesting because we're always talking to brands
about who they want to reach and how to use
that show in the right way, and sometimes like you
could hit a fourteen year old and you could hit
a you know, millennial mom of that fourteen year old,
and you might miss the teen right in the middle, who,
(23:56):
like you're saying, is seeing it as oh, that's a
kid's thing or that's a mom thing. It's very hard
to find something that's multi generational and threads all the
way through. And that's where you got to really think
hard about which is the target. Like GAP's doing great,
right and they're winning you know, your generation, and they're growing,
(24:17):
so probably Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
This is why marketing is hard af I mean, this
is this right here. I mean it's a very challenging,
challenging thing. Shout out to all you cmos get we
see you, we see you.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Total empathy, we feel you, total empathy totally.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
So you know what, it's got me thinking, and like Gail,
you started pushing this thing here that like, there are
very few things that are ubiquitous across everything, right.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Like, there are very few artists they are ubiquitous.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Like, but the only thing I would say that has
that level of gravitas is really technology. But even still,
when it comes to technology, there are swast of population
that are harkening back to a simpler time. They're like man, like,
you know, social networking platforms, they have all this, you know,
these challenges to them.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I just want them something simple.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
And we see within gen Z people using dumb phones,
the flip phones. So I guess my question for you
Aria and Hanna is technology acting in line with our
general nostalgia for the media that we consume, the things
that we wear, the things that we eat, what we
expect of a dormant and esthetics one hundred percent.
Speaker 6 (25:42):
I think that everything's leaning on the side of simplicity,
and like it kind of goes back to the beginning
of our conversation of like maybe.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
That's like the root cause of nostalgia. Like looking I
mean even.
Speaker 6 (25:53):
Now me looking at college, like I'm not really like
longing for failing at test again, and I'm like, I
want the simplicity of what college will.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Like you ever failed it.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
You didn't see me in math, you saw me in marketing, douche.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
And I think Henny actually raise a good point said
there's a want for simplicity that doesn't always mean convenience.
And I think that when we think about technology, we
try to optimize for convenience because like that's where the
value is. But in some cases, the trade off for
convenience is so great that you go, I just wanted
(26:28):
to be simpler, right.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
People forget that that's actually like a core idea of AI,
even like AI at its core, like even though it's
producing things up you know, we may not agree with,
especially from like a marketing perspective of like AI slop
and what online.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
We embraced the AI, we embraced the eye with you.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Yeah, it's doing some really cool things. That's like really
benefiting humanity.
Speaker 6 (26:48):
And also like at this point, there's so much like
AI integrated and even my iPhone that I'm not sure
if I could revert and go back without it. I
want those features, but I don't want to have like
a robot like in front of me. And I think
that's why people are going back, Like even with these
flip phones, Like if you look at the difference between
the flip phones now that they're reproducing versus the ones
(27:09):
back then, Like the flip phones have better keyboards now
and like they have that souff.
Speaker 8 (27:13):
You don't want to go back to triple.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Tap right now that's coming, but we have the tech reason.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
That was both inconvenient and not simple exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
But Ario will say you on the technology side, well.
Speaker 7 (27:28):
As a photographer and an artist, I love going back
to analog and things that are simpler, so I actually
have cyanotypes behind me, even which is a very physical
process of like going out in the sun and doing
things with your hands. And I think with the rise
of AI, we're seeing a lot of artists push against
that by leaning into physical processes like film that can
(27:54):
only be done analog in a dark room, processed by
hand with these chemist coals, with the knowledge, and then
you know, once photographers get on that train, that's how
subculture becomes pop culture, right of like media is now
consuming this, people are consuming this.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
They want to hop on the trends and so film.
Speaker 7 (28:12):
Cameras, digital cameras, vhs, it's all coming back camelors even
but it's very interesting because some of it comes off
a little performative to me, even where it's like I
don't think a lot of these people their intention is to.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Get off the Internet and completely disconnect.
Speaker 7 (28:32):
It almost seems like they want to signal that they
understand that this is some sort of taste, some sort
of niche style, but then also go right back on Instagram,
and post those digital photos, post that film, post that
they have a film camera.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
So there's an interesting kind.
Speaker 7 (28:49):
Of paradox that you have here of like people seem
like they want to disconnect, but also they're posting about
disconnecting on social media and are constantly on it.
Speaker 6 (28:59):
That's so true to add on to that, like especially
seeing it in a college setting, Like when I determine
if like someone I'm seeing is like performative or not.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
It's like does it match their whole being? Like you
really have to put like.
Speaker 8 (29:12):
Your whole field look sexy with this old school camera.
Speaker 6 (29:15):
It's like are you wearing the stuff to match that? Like,
oh you do that? Are you listening to the music
of that generation? Like you kind of have to clock
like everything, And I think that Gen D's definitely like
trying to do that, like they are trying to make
their whole being.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
Whatever aesthetic they choose.
Speaker 6 (29:31):
And if that's AI and like new tech, like you
can tell the people who are like totally embracing it,
like they have super clean backpacks like all of this
like whatever like.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
They're posting it, I think, are it totally hit that?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
So you know, we would talk a lot about like
the consumption of media, what we wear, the products that
we use, the technology that we use.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Where it kind of makes me wonder now is experiences.
For instance, you know in the eighties nineties, there was.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
A really big like club scene, this is all about
going to the club popping bottles like that was just
the thing that you did. But what we're seeing more
and more now is a different nightlife experience. People are
going to like speakeasies or are going to listening net lounges.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
It's a different sort of feel like.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Do you all think back to like, yeah, what it
pops some crystal and put the sprinklers up and do
the whole thing like sparklers up.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
It's like, is that the things that's kind of going
through your minds at all?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Or do you feel like not that existence is not
the one that we look to for sort of emotional
want fomo if you will, And we just choose to
have a different experience all together. So I guess our
experiences were driving nostalgia or is it our ability to
extract experiences that gives us nostalgic feelings.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
I think it's the latter, And I would add on
to it that it's super value s based.
Speaker 6 (30:58):
I think that something that we've been talking about a
lot is that like gen Z really values like longevity.
In another episode, we talked about how like there's kind
of things that are out of reach for gen Z
from a monetary perspective.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
A lot of the times.
Speaker 6 (31:12):
We're reinvesting, like in ourselves and whatnot. And so for
like the clubbing example, it kind of rejects a core
gen Z value right now of like going to bed
early so that you could join the run club in
the morning.
Speaker 5 (31:24):
Like those are super popular stuff like that. So I
will say that there is like a population.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
Where like when I turn twenty one, like I wanted
to do all those things because that's what the generations
before me did, and I was like, that's super cool.
But then once I got like those few months out
of my system and like kind of got intrinsic to
my own values, I would say that nostalgia has smatter
our value system.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
That's a powerful take.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
It's so interesting that the nostalgia, you know, is just
looking at some of pronav from neuro Insights, Right, he's
just super smart. He's eurosteady stuff, and he's always saying
like nine percent of marketing ninety percent of what we
remember is total subconscious And I think nostalgia, Hannah, what
you're getting at is so interesting because I think nostalgia
(32:10):
takes subconscious connections and makes them conscious.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Right.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
You hear that song, you see those genes from junior high,
and it just you have a place to connect the two.
And I think there's something about nostalgia that takes an emotion,
a subconscious feeling, and connects it to a memory.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Your absolutely spot on. Those experiences get tattooed to our
amygdala and hippocampus, right, And those systems in the brain
are not only associated with memory, but also feeling, and
because of what we feel, we end up acting accordingly. Right,
those things are all associated with the Olympic system. Our
emotions are tagged, are catalyzed by our memories, which ultimately
(32:52):
drive decisions that we make, and we can't communicate it. It
doesn't feel rational or logical because that resides another part
of the brain we know, is the neural cortex, Right,
Like these things are operating in concerts sort of trying
to decide who leads.
Speaker 8 (33:08):
What I guess, does it work? Does it work with nostalgia?
Speaker 3 (33:12):
You know, Hannah, you were saying, like Beatles, right, like
you discovered the Beatles. Now if somebody puts Beetles into
their marketing, is that going to now trigger you have
this new memory even though you didn't live.
Speaker 8 (33:22):
It way back when.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
But does it trigger some emotion that makes you pay
attention more?
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Yeah, that's super true.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
And again I would like reharp on the idea of
the authenticity of like what the brand is promoting, so
like going back to like.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
Old logos and stuff like that, Like I.
Speaker 6 (33:39):
Think that's a signal of saying, like we're still aus
this is what we do. And so like I think
being able to project your values with that type of stuff,
and like being able to correlate the two authentic like
ways of Like for example, if I heard a commercial
with the Beatles playing, I'd be like, oh, that represents me,
because here are the values of using like old music
and not how like AI incorporated into it whatever. Because
(34:02):
at the end of the day, like there's also some
nostalgic brands that I wouldn't go back onto, like in
the brief with like Pizza Hut and stuff like that,
Like those values.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
Don't align with me anymore.
Speaker 6 (34:12):
They could do a rebrand, like I totally grew up
with it, but like I'm going to be a pizza snob.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
Like it's just some things of like is it really
going to carry on with me?
Speaker 2 (34:20):
So Ari, you put a ball in this for us.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
We talk about like going out, are you hearkening for
a time of yesteryear that maybe you didn't experience or
do you feel more at home with the like curated
experiences that like feel more of today and less of yesterday.
Speaker 7 (34:38):
I would say with experiences, it does feel a bit
harder to tie that to nostalgia, especially with experiences that
I've never personally had. And so when you're talking about,
you know, going clubbing or popping bottles, like bottle service
is just out of my my field of imagination, even
(34:58):
like I've never experienced that.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
I think it's way out of my budget.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Probably it's insane. It was out of everyone's budget. It
was an absurd error.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Like so why if you go back to music videos
you'd feel you'd want some of that?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
It was crazy?
Speaker 4 (35:16):
You know, maybe I do need I need to go
back to the YouTube era. I go back to the
music videos totally.
Speaker 7 (35:20):
But I think with experiences it does feel a little
bit harder to connect or to really aspire to do
something like that and like really push myself to take
action on it.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
Like I think with nostalgia, it.
Speaker 7 (35:34):
Really is a lot in our heads and Gail, as
you were saying, it's very emotionally driven, and so it's
almost this feeling and maybe not always this want for action.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
And so I think that's why it might work better when.
Speaker 7 (35:48):
We're talking about a product or a song and not
something that's purely a service or an experience, because you know,
we when we buy that product, we then have that
physical association tied to the memory, as opposed to an
experience where I feel like I have to go through
more barriers to go through that, and like, you know,
really stand in line to go club in like you said.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Are call it and that's just not as appealing to me.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
It goes back to like our conversation in the last
episode about lines and stuff. Right, It's like, right, it's
like waiting in line is earning it, right, I think Canada,
your point of it's not just can I drop.
Speaker 8 (36:25):
A Hondo at a club and have bottle service?
Speaker 3 (36:27):
It's a have I picked the right bar and have
I looked at this hand drawn menu and this this,
you know, somebody put this concoction together that's new, but
based in something from the twenties. Part of the nostalgia
I think that threads through is these things that are artisanal,
the valuing, the making of right, touching the vinyl, taking
(36:51):
the picture with.
Speaker 8 (36:52):
Film, all of those things.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
There's something about the physicality two of these things totally.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I think that campaign that Polaroid is doing right now,
we're doing for the last year, I think it's just
absolutely brilliant. You know, it's like get some sand between
your toes, you know, sort of these tactile things that
can't be captured in zeros and ones but can only
really be experienced live and then captured in a very
analogue sort of way through Polaroid. And like my kids
(37:20):
use Polaroid cameras and they feel like the photos matter
a little bit more when there's more scarcity, and therefore
they're more judicious about the photos that they take, and
therefore we have more meaning. We're nearing to the end here,
and I guess instead of doing like our normal speed round,
I guess we have one real question when it comes
(37:40):
to brands engaging in nostalgia do you care or don't you?
And if you do, what needs to happen. One needs
to be satisfied to make it work. And if you don't,
is there any opportunity there that marketers have yet to
really unpack the first question? I'll start with you, Hannah care,
(38:01):
I don't care. Should brands be leveraging nostalgia? Care don't care?
Speaker 6 (38:06):
I definitely care, and I think that it just hits
a lot of boxes for me. It's not necessarily that
they can't engage in like UX principles that are more
modern and stuff like that. I care because I think nostalgia,
like I said, represents a the history I know, Like
I can look back and be like, if it's not broken,
I don't need to fix it.
Speaker 5 (38:26):
So I feel confident in this brand. It's never been broken.
Speaker 6 (38:29):
Yeah, And I think overall, yeah, it like points itself
as a place in history that I can feed into.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
So you care, and it works when those things fill
align and authentic right totally.
Speaker 5 (38:41):
Because you can't.
Speaker 6 (38:42):
I don't think you can rebrand yourself like trying to
hit like let's say your brand and you had X
population for however long and now it's been forty years later,
and you're trying to get them again. There's still some
stuff that you're going to have to hit with the
status like yeah, like I mentioned, like our technology and
stuff is too advanced.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
You can't bring us back to be doing more work,
but you.
Speaker 6 (39:02):
Can hit all the same values that you represented at
that time that brought people in in the first place.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
That's a really good shout. Now.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
I wonder if, like in shitification plays a role in
this too, that when you go back to the way
things were, like man, this is much better than the
things work now, or if like the product was ever
really that good.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
You know, I feel like there is some danger there
that like.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
You go back with like all this like great, great
feeling about it, and then when you experience it again,
you go, ugh, that sucked, Like my memories were better
than the experience. So, Hannah, if you're saying that you
do care to this opportunity there, that's another thing to
think about is that you can screw up the nostalgia
(39:46):
because the expectations are so high.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
The main point is that you have to match the
error that you're in.
Speaker 6 (39:51):
Like, respectfully, I've gone back to like even like old
apps like I love Tumble Run I don't know if
you guys remember that, ye I had like an odd
for it or something like that, and I like redownloaded.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
It and I could definitely tell that it was back.
Speaker 6 (40:03):
Then, and like I appreciate now the technological advances. So
for brands of any kind to rematch me in the era,
it has to hit the simplicity markers, and simplicity now
looks different.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
It tasted good then.
Speaker 6 (40:17):
If they wanted to hit you again, like they needed
to be using like new ingredients and stuff like that
to match you in the era that you're in without
compromising what it's trying to represent at its core.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
That's a really really good shout, Aria, take us home.
Care don't care nostalgia? Do you care that brands are
leveraging it or don't you care?
Speaker 4 (40:38):
Absolutely I care. I think it's very very powerful.
Speaker 7 (40:40):
I mean, we're seeing gen Z really resonate with it emotionally.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
And I think exactly what all of you are saying, right,
Nostalgia is very powerful.
Speaker 7 (40:50):
But if you have a bad product, it's not going
to be able to save bit. So you know, meeting
at that level, really making sure you are meeting those
expectations because constantly we are looking back at our childhood
or at our memories.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
With rose colored glasses, So how.
Speaker 7 (41:05):
Can you kind of match that in the era now
and make sure that you are meeting consumers with that
expectation and from there you don't want to get stuck
in the past either. I think a campaign is really
really good to bring that attention back. Like I said before,
you know, rediscover that hidden gym, uncover it from the dirt,
and shine a spotlight on it. But then moving forward,
(41:27):
like let's talk about how we can continue to innovate,
continue to take a stance, continue to build on our values,
and continue this campaign to really reach new generations. I
think this stallge is a great way to capture the
attention of one generation. For example, let's go back to
gap like capture college students, and then after that, hopefully
moving forward with other campaigns, you can have that trickle
(41:50):
down effect into high schoolers with campaigns that feel a
little bit more.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
Modern, feel more cool, feel more aspirational, not.
Speaker 7 (41:57):
Really holding back on that era of as that they're
not really resonating with.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
Then the final thing that I want to say with.
Speaker 7 (42:04):
Nostalgia is that there's definitely ways that you can do
it right, and there's lots of ways you can do
it wrong, and so I just want to be really clear.
And when I'm seeing these nostalgic campaigns, I'm really hoping
that these brands are tapping into a very niche and
personal human experience for me. And back to the Pizza Hut,
(42:27):
Like them transforming their restaurants doesn't do a lot for
me because as a child, I wasn't going in and
doing a sit down eaten. I was still buying delivery
and eating out. So I think for a fun campaign
that feels nostalgic to me, Like one of my favorite
memories is ordering Pizza Hut for the Super Bowl. So
(42:47):
the highlight for me was the Pizza Hut that got
delivered that I got to eat with my family in
the living room.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
And so if you can really tap into.
Speaker 7 (42:56):
Those deep grooves and those deep memories and really make
a consumer feel like, wow, this is something that I experienced.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
I almost forgot about.
Speaker 7 (43:05):
But thinking back to it, like I feel very emotionally
tied to it. I think that's the best way that
you can do nostalgia, and maybe brands are missing the
mark there. So I would just encourage like a really
deep dive into human experiences.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
I love, love, love this.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
It's like nostalgia is so powerful, but it comes with
a cost.
Speaker 8 (43:28):
Yeah, and I think you guys both said it. There's
got to be an authenticity to it. Anybody could just
pay music.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Rights and drop a song into their ad and just
trying to claim nostalgia. But like I think Gaps hitting
now and they're doing a really good job of they're
not just doing nostalgia right, and they're going into nostalgia
and old music. But they have a right to play
in the nineties. They own the nineties, right, So now
that that's on brand, it makes sense. But maybe it
(43:55):
wouldn't make sense if a competitor to Gap were to
come in and say we're going d into the nineties
and we're going to appropriate all of that look and
feel and music, and it might not work.
Speaker 5 (44:06):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
It feels like you have to have a right to
jump into that nostalgia, which is you have to have
that love for it totally.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
This requires a level of intimacy to understand the context
back then and what it means today.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Well said Hannah Aria.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
As always, you all never cease to impress. Thank you
so very much for being with us on Market says
hipping us to game so that we might understand what's
going on in the market, and that the marketers who
are listening to this podcast and watching us on YouTube,
that they too can walk away a little bit smarter
as Gail and I always do every week. So thank
(44:43):
you all so very much, and to our audience, thanks
for joining us for another episode of Market, says Cale.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
I want to say anything does to people.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Hannah Aria, thank you. You guys make us smarter every
time we show up for this show. You throw a
lot of warnings out there for brands. Right I'm sure
there's people sitting there thinking about their fall campaigns, their
holiday campaigns right now, and nostalgia is on the table.
So marketers out there, if you're going to go there,
make sure you go there with truth and authenticity. And
(45:13):
if you're gonna nostalgia or old stalgia, do it with
respect and love and a real reason why.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Amen, the market has spoken. I hope that you're listening.
See you next time.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Peace Market says.
Speaker 8 (45:27):
It's a bubblo media.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
iHeart podcast production.
Speaker 8 (45:30):
If you're not in the conversation, you're not in the game.
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