July 16, 2026 • 44 mins
The ’90s version of showing off was a giant Tommy Hilfiger logo across your chest, a big Nautica patch on the sleeve of your polo, or head-to-toe Adidas from the hoodie to the trainers.
Gen Z’s version? Waking up at 4am for a limited edition sneaker, waiting in line for 12 hours for a hoodie, or hunting down the Canada Goose jacket that sold out in minutes. The logo might be smaller, but the scarcity and sacrifice add something even more valuable than the product itself - the story behind how you got it.
In this episode of Market Says, hosts Gayle Troberman and Marcus Collins sit down with University of Michigan marketing students to explore how identity is signaled now that scarcity, sacrifice, and cultural relevance matter as much as the product itself. Why are Gen Z willing to work harder than ever to earn their brand identity?
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
I'm excited about this one.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Great to have you guys back. Maya and Tia.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
You always make us a little bit smarter when it
comes to understanding the gen Z consumer and what the
market actually says.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
So welcome back now, Gail.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'll tell you this.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
When I was in high school, I feel like high
school is really where I found myself in the world
of fashion. I mean, when I was younger, I used
to wear like a Latin T shirts. It was like whatever,
it was like, you know, But once I got int
high school. I remember this so so vividly. My first
day of school, I wore a Mighty Mouse T shirt
with yellow jeans to match the Mighty Mouse aesthetic, and
(00:53):
I remember feeling like a complete loser. And so I
got back in the car my mother picked me up.
I was like, we got to go to the mall
right now. And from that day on, my wardrobe basically
was a collage of Timmy Hill, Figure, Polo and Nautica
Like that was like all I wore, and the bigger
(01:13):
the logo, the better. Like I wanted everyone to know,
Oh my god, everyone had to know. In fact, where
my Nautica jacket. I used to keep like the little
flotation device thing on. I used to keep it hooked
to my jackets like everybody else did, because conspicuous consumption
was at the core of identity projection. But I feel
(01:33):
like today things are far more innocuous, Things are far
more muted, if you will, So, I think the question
becomes if consumption hasn't changed as far as its volume.
In fact, I arguable say that we consume more now,
But the manner in which we consume, and it's visibility,
(01:53):
its public nature, is constantly being negotiated.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
What does this.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Mean for brands that become a part of who we
are and how we want to be seen in the marketplace. So,
of course my high school years are far far far
behind us. We are in a new day, a new time,
in a new world. So of course we have with
us the market. Tell us get a better understanding of
(02:19):
this world. Tia maya welcome back to market, says you
blew us away the first time, so we had to
get your brilliance back with us. Today we're talking about,
I would say, conspicuous consumption through the lens of what
we wear when we drive, how we adorn ourselves, all
(02:41):
the public displays of consumption with me.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yes, yes, thank you for having us.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Let's get this going here.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
When you think about the brands you buy, are you
ever considering what people think about those brands or are
you going in saying that, like, I buy this because
I care, I buy this because I think it's dope.
Talk us through the cognitive process of consumption when it
comes to its visibility to the world.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
Well, when it comes to considering different perspectives. With the
items that I buy for me, my biggest priority is
kind of just the story that it tells. Maybe it's
from that marketer's lens, but I love storytelling in any aspect,
and oftentimes my favorite pieces that I wear has little
story to it. Maybe it's a hand me down from
my mother, maybe it's something from my cousin. But that's
(03:34):
kind of my biggest priority. And also because it's a
bit more affordable. But when it comes to maybe the
daily where oftentimes I just go to utility, what looks good,
what's more accessible. But when you guys talk sneakers, when
you talk cars, somehow these have become bigger marks of
identity in different ways. And I'd say that my workflow
(03:58):
is kind of understanding what my utility is, what I need.
Speaker 7 (04:02):
If I need a sneaker, if.
Speaker 6 (04:03):
I need a formal shoe, then I honestly go to
Pinterest get some ideas of what that could look like,
and then I go to TikTok and Instagram and get
those perspective of what's new, what's cool?
Speaker 7 (04:15):
What why not know? Because those platforms.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
In my mind tell me what's underground, what's maybe a
bit more often to myself.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
So if I'm hearing this right, you look sort of
for functionality congruence, like I'm looking for this kind of shoe,
this kind of top, this kind of jacket that meets
these I's called it empirical functional needs, whether it's like
it needs to be warm, it needs to be black,
it needs to be these things right and being you
(04:45):
kind of go into these other more social settings to
get a sense of it's context, it's meaning, like what
is the story saying beyond what the functionality and maybe
how those things are received by the public.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Am I going too far there?
Speaker 6 (05:00):
Mind?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Zeba right now?
Speaker 7 (05:01):
Absolutely, you said it perfectly, all.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Right, Tia, Gail. You got to know tea is a
bit of a hyphen.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
East right, Thank you are right in her world.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
This is her sanctuary, this is bring it.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
What hype are you subscribing to right now?
Speaker 8 (05:20):
Oh, I'm very much into the street where I feel
like that's my main style. And for me, it's not
about I think the pressure was, how does you care
what other people think?
Speaker 5 (05:29):
For me, it's not what everyone thinks. It's more the
people who know know.
Speaker 8 (05:34):
And That's where I'm coming in, and I'm like, I'm
going to wear what I want and people who think
it's cool will think it's cool because they will know
the brand, they will.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Know its legacy.
Speaker 8 (05:44):
So I feel whenever it comes to choosing brands that
I want to like wear or it's not got to
do with the logo, but more of the meaning of
that brand.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
And it's very much to those people, if you know,
you know.
Speaker 8 (05:56):
And I feel like when I go out with these brands,
to those who I can kind of relate to, we
can have a chat, we can you know, recognize each other,
and so I feel like that's like my community of people,
So it's not just for everybody, and I feel like
people can notice that people who are not in it,
it's also like that's cool what you're wearing. I love
how you kind of show who you are through these
(06:17):
like marks of clothing, and I can I really feel it.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
To Maya's point, then these things are still socially constructed, like, yes,
this is happening among group of people. So it's not
just the functionality of the product, of the garment, of
the artifact alone. It's sort of the story that we
have all our people have collectively brought into exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
You know, it's interesting you even said it.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
You're like, when I go out with this brand, right,
it's like you're you're taking this brand to a party,
You're taking them out with your friends the dinner. You're right,
You're you're actually going out with a brand. I think
that's a fascinating phrase, right, it is, And it's super interesting.
I mean, if brands are a signal, right, if you know,
you know, Marcus, we had big logo, they were very
(07:01):
overt signals for gen xers back in the day. Right
on the back of my ass there's a big brand
on the gens pocket and that said who you were.
Were you a Levi's person or Assesssoon person or you know,
all those different brands through the years, The Citizens for
Humanity and it's interesting to think about that. You see
(07:21):
your brand identification as a way to signal, hey, if
you know, you know, we're we're going to be friends,
we're in a club, we have some sort of shared
passion interest, identity. I kind of love using a brand
to create community.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I guess is what you're saying, Is that fair?
Speaker 5 (07:39):
It's exactly that.
Speaker 8 (07:40):
It's not also that, but there's like underlying tones that
we say or like inside jokes, So not just wearing,
also the clothes, but also human connection. It's it goes
beyond you know, it's got to do with music as well.
It's it's something quite deeply connected that I'm very proud
to show the.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
World, Amaya. Question for you, are all categories the same?
So like the sneakers you wear, is it the same
sort of congruence that you look for when it comes
to a jacket or a backpack or a bag or
I noticed this is this is one of the things
that was not on my radar before I started teaching.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Gail.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
I don't know if this has got your attention, but
water bottles are a big thing in school.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Oh yeah, I've seen the water bottle trend.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
It's crazy, like before it was like crazy Stanley, it
was like are you a hydro flask kind of person?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Are you? It's a whole thing. It's a hard thing.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
So I guess maam my question for you, and I
definitely want to hear from you too well, Tia, are
all categories created equal? Like do you have the same
sort of negotiation process or at the very least the
same social obligation when it comes to your articles of
clothing versus some other artifact or even something as big
(08:54):
as maybe even you know, the car or your drive
or the bike you ride.
Speaker 7 (08:59):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
I think when it comes to the category, it truly
is about where you are and what you can display.
If you're talking about a college setting, oftentimes I always
have my water ball on me, I have.
Speaker 7 (09:11):
My O walla.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Yeah right.
Speaker 6 (09:15):
But I think in college I've also seen so many
people with like the classic long shampope bag and that
was not something that I had even seen before college,
and suddenly everyone had it and I was like, where
did that memo come from?
Speaker 7 (09:27):
But when it comes to the workplace.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
From a conference room in Paris, yeah, they were doing
something right, yo, for sure.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
I Mean that's a really good point because before I
started teaching. We moved from New York here and we
had just had Georgia, our eldest, and my wife had
like this like busted coat. I won't name the brains
so I want to throw any shape, but it was
like it was old.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
It wasn't like a bad coach, just had it for
a long time.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
And I remember it being winter and I saw all
the like the young folks wearing these parka coats. I
was like, oh man, I'm gonna buy one of those
from my wife that had like a nice little red
circle that we all know would be Canada goose, I mean, Gail.
Everybody seemingly in the business school was wearing this coat.
I went to go buy one online. This is a
thousand dollar coat.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah yeah, I live on a ski mountain in the winter.
It is an insanely expensive coat. And yet everybody found
money for it, right because exactly why?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Because I wasn't buying it.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Why does that red circle mean so much? Why?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Right?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Exactly? So, Like to Maya's point, I was like, this
is fascinating. I didn't know, like why everyone buys this coat.
I've never seen an ad for it. And when I
asked students about you know, have they seen an ad
for it? Nope? But why do they buy it? Because
everybody else buys it? Right, it's this sort of social
contagion is happening here. But it's not only with a
forty five dollars water bottle, which is a ridiculous price,
(10:52):
by the way, but also you know these thousand dollars coats,
Like this.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Is a good We're here to learn, Marcus, not judge.
I'm learning.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
You're right, We listen. We don't judge. You're right, we listened.
We don't judge.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
But Maya, do you feel that like across the entire board,
Like is it really category agnostic when it's conspicuous in
its nature?
Speaker 6 (11:13):
You know, honestly, it's about in my perspective, it would
be more about what you truly value. Like I love
Maya Wola, but I came to it around my sophomore
year of college, and that's late in the game for
some people. Some people make it their whole mark of identity.
They decorate it with stickers. They started with the hydroflask
and have met every trend with its time.
Speaker 7 (11:36):
So if it's part of.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
Your utility, if it's part of something that you think
is important to show other people. Then definitely that category matters.
I definitely think maybe for a younger gen Z generation,
we're coming into the car age because at the time,
I'd say with our younger demographic, affordability is the biggest concern,
So we can't be going out and buying horses and
(12:00):
so many other things. But I would love to see
what that changes with time. So when you look at
all these different categories, it's truly about what says the
most about you in the circles that you want to
be in. So Antia's point of if you know, you
kind of know, So what demographic do you want to
give importance to in terms of deciding if you're cool.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Enough or not.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I guess the question is, Tia, do you have a
Canada Goose?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (12:29):
I do have the fuck Cross.
Speaker 8 (12:30):
So when you were saying, I was like, oh, did
follow on that one? Yeah, it's a good jacket, you know.
Coming to Michigan, I was like, I need a good coast.
I convinced my parents and we're like, you know, we're
gonna I'm gonna get it.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
And yeah, it's too big.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
It's such a big jacket.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I can't well, it's a fascinating brand because it is performance, right.
I mean they were designed for like people working in
the Arctic, And you know what.
Speaker 8 (12:55):
Did I need that much of a jacket? Like it's
good performance, but I don't think I needed it that
probably Michigan Winter in a lesser brain step.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
The logo.
Speaker 8 (13:05):
I picked the one with the biggest logo, and'm gonna
be real. It was my first kind of the goose.
It was a big go for Yeah, if you know.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
You know that, you won't know if you can't see it.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
The lyric tells us this it does. The lyric is
pretty unambiguous.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
Here is that, you know, consumption is a cultural app
We buy the things because of who we are and
what it means for people like us. And you know
you all are really you're kind of giving us evidence
of this, give us a proof point of this. It's
just I guess the difference is what's acceptable today is
different than it was some years ago when when at
(13:40):
the night.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
School, Well, I think we talked a lot like.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Brands that are over that signal, right, like you got
your water bottle out, it's sitting there in the classroom
with you. It's like you're carrying it around and the coat, right,
the coat in Michigan, you gotta wear a coat all
winter most of the year. And it's a thing. Right,
it's on your body, You're projecting it. It's milling. This
is who I am. So I understand branding there, right, fashion,
(14:05):
I really get right. We talk sneakers like they're on
your feet most days, like they're really become a part
of the image you put on as you go out
of the house every day into the world. What about
like the brands we don't see, are there any brands
that are part of your identity that maybe bring you joy?
I was thinking about even like brands as consumers you
(14:27):
actually consume, Like do you have food and drink brands
that like they mean something to you? Maybe they make
you feel something on a bad day you seek out
this or you know it got to study all night,
I'm going to go for this meal or this dinner.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Like, are there any of those kinds of brands that we.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
May never see you consume but the brand matters absolutely?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, when you talk about food.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
I think there's a Trader Joe's my hometown that is
right next to my house. So my sister and I
would always go and walk there and grab random snacks.
Those Trader Joe's Talkies are probably in my bloodstream at
this point, and it might be bad for my heart,
but they are so so good. I actually have a
hoodie with that on the back, the Trader Joe's Talkies,
(15:18):
and I made it my sas crazy and it's something
I'm very proud of. I think Trader Joe's is such
a great brand as self, and that is so exciting too,
because it feels authentic as a brand, but it's also
something that I authentically consume at insane amounts.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
That's actually the question is going to ask, like, what's
the story then? So if the idea is that consumption
comes with these sort of cultful stories that we tell
ourselves and we negotiate with other people, what's the stories
of Trader Joe's Talkies.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
I mean it started with talkies, I will not lie,
and I think it was around middle school where everyone
was just eating these talkies and it was about your
spice tolerance.
Speaker 7 (15:55):
If you go way back.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
It started with flaming hot Cheetos. Then talk He's became
more of a thing. The Blue Talkies had its moment
and suddenly I discovered these Trader Joe's ones, and I
think it's because my mom just saw them and grabbed them,
and they just taste better. It doesn't feel like I'm
eating red Dye number forty.
Speaker 7 (16:15):
It feels a bit more authentic as of food.
Speaker 6 (16:18):
But also, as I've grown up, the Trader Joe's brand
is also something that I'm very proud to stand by.
So it's those late nights where I'm staying up and
downing a whole bag with my friends. It's studying together.
It's a communal snack. So a lot of great memories
have been around Trader Joe's talkies. And whenever I go
(16:39):
to Trader Joe's on campus, which is a good forty
minute hike, I always grab like six bags and then
I'm out in my house dealing them to my roommates
and they love it.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
So, oh yes, I was rolled just like a day
ago by a fairly you know, ahead of the trend's
friend that the Trader Joe's tote bag is the new
status symbol for summer.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Oh yeah, so you were.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Right ahead of the trend here, as far as I've
been told. That's interesting, right, Who would think a grocery
store brand would become a fashion brand or an accessory brand.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
It says a lot, right.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
I think for me, it's like beauty products. A lot
of my beauty products.
Speaker 8 (17:22):
It's ones that my mom recommended and used on me
at a young age.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
So I was like, Okay, I guess it works out.
It does. It smells nice, and I really like it.
Speaker 8 (17:31):
And I feel like I've just continued using it because
I've been so like stubborn on changing products or trying
different things because it's just been since I was young,
I've been using it. So a lot of like lotions.
I really like the like US lotions. Those are like
my favorites. And I feel like everyone like if you
recommend me like another show, I'm like, I'm not going
to try that. Like I feel like I'm very stubborn
(17:51):
on this kind of things. But it's just because like
it was built. Yeah, and it's not something I'm going
to tell everyone like I use it, you know, like
it's not something I'm very proud of. But it's like
that's just like in like in my own home, I'm
just constantly buying it. Again I run out, I'm gonna
go repurchase. So yeah, that's aey something.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
So here's a question for us.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Let's do like a brand check right now, like what
brands are you all wearing and how conspicuous is the consumption?
For instance, like may you have on like a mocknek
sort of sweater like object? Can people tell what brand
it is from?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Afar?
Speaker 6 (18:26):
No, this is something I'm proud to wear because I
haven't seen it in mass production yet. Yeah, and I
hope I don't because this is one of my favorite
sweaters and it's from a boutique in my hometown.
Speaker 7 (18:38):
I know it's a chain.
Speaker 6 (18:39):
I've seen it in other places in Michigan, but it
is a bit smaller and that's also a mark of
ownership for me in saying that I got it from
my hometown boutique.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Yeah, it's almost a twist on quiet luxury. It's like
to your point, like if you know, you know right
to that point you were making earlier, absolutely tea. How
about you? What are you wearing right now and are
they conspicuous?
Speaker 5 (18:58):
For me?
Speaker 8 (19:00):
Sneakers are like Nike, Urban Outfitters and Jaded London. So yeah,
kind of like fun brands, very mixed, but yeah, I
feel like those are like core from me.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
I really like those brands.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
So people would know what sneakers you're wearing, right, they'll
see that the Nikes, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
The only one that has a brand like logo. The rest.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
No, So if you know, you know, yeah, sneakers are
hard to be anonymous, right, I think they're all mostly
all understood, right, hard to find a brand in that
category that's not actually understood.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Gail, are you thinking about like your visible consumption these days?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I'm now thinking about what I put on, and I
know these are like.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Gap khakis maybe, which had a conversation. I never wore
khakis in my life, and then I don't know, I
bought my first hair last summer, and I was like,
I think I get why all those men have been
wearing these pants forever.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
They're insanely comfortable. They're very comforting, really delightful. I just
was never that person. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Maybe I thought they were too gay.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
It's the year of the khaki for Gail.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Could it ever be too gay? Though, Gail? Could it
ever be too gay?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
You know that's my other podcast, Gay I you know,
and gay. I know you can never be too gay? No,
that was the thank you?
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah, what about you, doctor Collins. What do you rock
in here?
Speaker 7 (20:21):
Mark through?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
What kind of headphones through those? That's what I want
to know.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Oh, you know, these are these audio dynamics. Those ones
are supposed to be like really for audio files. My
students know this or should know this by now. I
basically wear a uniform. Basically wear the same thing every day.
It's either different colored khakis with a button up shirt.
It's either white or powder blue. That's it. And I
(20:46):
wear sweater.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
The khakis are normally gap because they fit really well.
The tops are always J Crew or Ralph Lauren two.
If I'm wearing jeans, then I'm wearing Levi's.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
That's the fit. So I guess you know, I see
what's happening here.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Whether it's like the way you adorn your water bottle,
you adorn your laptop, right, you put stickers on it
to make it your own, like my idea, you go.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I know it's mass produced, but I have to make
it my own, right.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Grant mccrackey talks about this, as you all both know,
as a possession ritual, right, and this is the way
that we make it ours to help give it meaning,
and that meaning deepens our relationship with the product, the
brand product, and therefore we can immerse our ideaity in
to it. So that makes sense. For the things that
you have now, I guess what I'm kind of curious
about and I'm really really I really do want you
(21:50):
all to sort of bring us into this world, is
how do you discover it? Like for things that you
don't currently own, now, for things that you will be pering,
will be consuming, how do you know which ones are
the ones? Like if maya to your earlier point that
you buy things for the functional side, or you consider
them for the functional side, but then you go on TikTok,
(22:12):
you go on Pinterest to see like how people are
socially negotiating this. Now you are the people. How do
you get inspiration for what to buy? And how do
you engage in the discourse on what those things means?
Let's start with the first how do you discover what
to buy?
Speaker 7 (22:30):
I guess seasonal utility?
Speaker 6 (22:32):
Okay, and that just gives you the basic of say
I want a tank top where I want a shirt,
but I need it to be light and airy. And
then that's where I go and kind of look at
my idols. I love looking at fashion icons and seeing
what they're wearing. And as I get older, I'm more
and more inclined to wear things I have just a
(22:53):
bit more personality. Take this sweater for example, this little
stitch detail that has right now, I've seen it on
different pieces of clothing, but I haven't seen it on
a piece like this before. And that felt like pulling
something that I was inspired by and my utility and
putting it into one thing. So when it comes to that,
(23:15):
utility is important. But style and taste I think is
becoming more increasingly important. So if you're going to talk
about discovery, I will also say taste might be outweighing
what we consider to be loyalty overall. So in crafting
that taste, discovery is truly kind of about your own
(23:36):
self taste and style and what tiny pieces can be
seen throughout the tiny piece of clothing that you wear.
Speaker 7 (23:44):
I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Yeah, this makes all the sense of the world. Okay,
The litera supports this very thing. Its taste becomes the
demarcation between where you are in a social hierarchy. Right,
The better the taste, the more culture you've were. As
Dude talks about it. And in a world that's like
driven by algorithms that are more increasingly becoming more driven
(24:07):
by AI, it's the taste of the curators that make
all the difference. That were able to put this piece
with that piece and that piece. This piece, you go,
that's dope, you go, oh, that's killer, the fact that
you saw that is killer, and then that, of course,
to your point, inspires what you buy because of the
belief that you have in that person's taste.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Is that fair to say TA talk to us.
Speaker 8 (24:31):
I think for me to find the question was to
how do you find like these items and all this?
Speaker 5 (24:38):
I feel like it's definite.
Speaker 8 (24:39):
Yeah, influencers who I relate to, and I can see
myself like I can relate and understand them, and I
really look into their fashion and I can kind of
absorb it. But it is mostly like me myself. And
I feel like, looking back, I've always kind of more
inclined to buy things that most people didn't like, and
(25:00):
I feel like I wanted to always be at the
start of it. And I like when people hate on
things because I'm always defied to say, you know, I
see beauty in it, and I think I'm special and
I feel like items. I'm gonna say, like the sambas
because I was in it at the beginning.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
I really like them. A lot of people like they're
so ugly. I hate them.
Speaker 8 (25:19):
Suddenly they started gaining more and more popularity, and now
everyone had zambis, especially in Europe.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
It was super super popular, and.
Speaker 8 (25:26):
I was like, you know what, now I don't want
to be in it anymore. I don't want to be
part of it. So I'm not gonna wear the sambas
anymore because y'all ruined it. No one liked at the beginning,
and I liked it, And now it's not cool.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
It's not cool because everyone has.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Tokyo.
Speaker 8 (25:39):
Yeah, it's definitely popularity no more, it's done. The trend's over.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Now it's done. You want to be first, right, yes,
first to it?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
So are you following a bunch of influencers who are
always sort of like throwing new things at you and
you're able to go, yeah, yes, I'm gonna I'm gonna
jump on that.
Speaker 8 (25:56):
We're talking about first in line with the drops? When
is it gonna drop? And who's first in line? Are
we gonna queue for this? What's how much value are
we putting into this. You know, let's talk about that.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
That is a oh my god, yeah, talk about gen
X versus gen Z Marcus. I do not understand the
desire to wait in the line.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
The things we avoided lines, We were like, whoa, there's
lines about.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I'll get it another time, I won't get it, Like,
oh my god, it's like, there's mine justifies the brand
and the thing and the purchase. Explain the line to me,
the collab, the pop up, the limited editions, the waiting.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
What's the waiting about?
Speaker 8 (26:39):
It's a war, so you're gonna go in with the mindset, Oh,
I'm gonna fight for this, and when I get it,
I'm going to be the coolest person there because I
went in with the idea of war.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
This is insane. And I think my parents think I'm crazy.
Speaker 8 (26:51):
I'm definitely the type to you put value into things
that they don't think there's no value.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
Like for them, that's like why would you even do that?
You know?
Speaker 8 (26:58):
But I think when I tell people who are in
my circle, they're like, that's so worth it, though, that
makes so much sense.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Why you would do that, you know?
Speaker 5 (27:05):
And I feel like I'm like, okay, then yeah, I'm
going to continue doing this.
Speaker 8 (27:08):
I feel like Supreme when it was like they would
drop every Thursday and then you have to like queue outside,
and it was just more of the excitement. It's more
fun to like the feeling of like I might get it,
you know, I'm gonna fight for this. Then like at
like when you got it, then it's like okay, yeah,
But like I feel like that gave so much anticipation
and so much more love and care for the product
(27:28):
rather than like it just being on sale for everyone.
You know, it was very exclusive. You had to work
for it, right, Yes, you had to work for it,
you know.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
We had a couple of friends kids stay with us
a couple of weeks ago in Rhode Island. They got
up at four am, which was mind blowing. Okay, four
am on like the Thursday, to go get in a
line for a pop up. It was a Haley Bieber
Road pop up that.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
They got up at four They were in line at
four thirty am and they waited a lot. Thing opened
at ten.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
They like, they made their purchase sometime around noon and
then they had to come back at five pm to
get it.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
And I was like, oh my god, that's a twelve
hour commitments.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
The experience, the experience, it's memorable.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
It's the story.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
Is the story? There we go. That's what's different.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Starting there right, like Maya you started with, it's all
about the story and the narrative. And Marcus, what I
find fascinating about the pop ups and the waiting is
it used to be genius creatives like you, Marcus would
write the story and you'd tell us the story. And
now I think, gen Z, if I'm hearing this right,
(28:41):
you're actually creating the story by going there, getting up early,
bringing your friends, getting your coffee, committing to the purchase,
and fighting the war to get the thing. Like you're
actually writing your own story, which is it is very
different kind of marketing, isn't.
Speaker 7 (28:57):
It It is.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
I mean, maybe I'm reading this is too much, but
I like where you're going here, Gail, because I feel
like perhaps in Maya tea police correcting here. Hey, when
I'm gleaning here, at least I'm thinking that, you know,
back in the day, back in the day when we
were engaged in conspicuous consumption in our high school years,
college years, having the means to acquire it was the
(29:23):
earning it right that like if I, if you wore this,
you had that, then you had money signingal where you
were on the social hierarchy, and perhaps maybe the earning
it here is far more laborious, like you have the
labor for it. Yeah, right that Like I stood in
line to get the the Almar swatchwatch, I stood in
(29:44):
line to get the Dove and Crumble Cookie collaboration. I
stood in line to get those Nike drops. I did,
I did it, I earned it. So yeah, again I
might be digging too much, but yeah, and a world
that's more democratized now than in back then, that getting
access to it when it's at mass scale maya to
(30:05):
your earlier point, Like that's not you didn't really earn it,
right because like you get online, it comes right to you. Boom,
there it is.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
You earned it on the front end, right, you had
to exactly work to get the money to earn it.
Now you actually have to work to get the money
to be able to buy it, and then you have
to actually do more labor to go wait for it,
fight your way through no even just following and understand it.
Where is the pop up and where is this thing dropping?
And yeah, it's a lot harder.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, I think that's kind of the point.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Like I suppose it is harder, and therefore it signals
that you have more time, disposable time, you have more
disposable knowledge as well, or more industry specific knowledge as
you know what the right thing to get, what's in
in line for Okay, I'll stop see it, Maya.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
If I'm if I'm barking up the wrong tree, please
let me know.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
But that's this is sort of what I'm deducing as
you are speaking.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Talk to me.
Speaker 6 (30:58):
Absolutely, I'm I mean, we're talking about fashion, and now
that we're talking about this conversation with putting in the work,
one thing we have.
Speaker 7 (31:07):
To address is thrifting.
Speaker 6 (31:09):
And so many of the people around me that wear
some of the coolest pieces of clothing, if they answer
to my question of where did you get this?
Speaker 7 (31:17):
With thrifting, I hate them.
Speaker 6 (31:19):
I'm so mad because I have no patience to go
and sort through racks and racks of clothing to find
one gem. But they do, and they find that one gem,
and it's like the gold rush. They're trying to find
that one piece, and that one piece eats. It's such
a good piece, and I'm so jealous. And I know
that I don't have the capacity to go and do that.
(31:41):
But if I ever do find something that I feel
is a little more underground or something where I put
in a bit more work to go get it, maybe
I've done research on like the quality of material, all
those things. That's part of my journey and story in
wearing this with pride, and so that is another huge
thing about out Mark's ownership, about earning the items that
(32:04):
you want to represent your own abilities, your work and
your time and all those things. So I haven't been
a thrifting person, but that's something I aspire to be.
Maybe it's my patience, maybe it's my taste, but putting
in the work and getting something that you feel as
authentic to yourself is something that I am definitely working towards,
(32:26):
even if it is just for clothing that reflects different
parts of my life as well.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
It's the grooming ritual all over again, Like it's this
is another ritual by which we get things meaning associated
with our identity. Shout out to Granat McCracken, who's just
way ahead of ahead of his time here.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
All right, So we're getting to that part of the.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Show which you all know this is the speed round,
I say, quote unquote speed round.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Do you care? I don't care. That's sort of like
where the rubber meets the road.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
If this show is about exploring how the market sees
the world and navigates through.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
It, this is where we go, all right. So the
survey says, what right? You know?
Speaker 4 (33:03):
We planned the case to the jewelry. Like the idea
is like, so what is the verdict here?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
So here we go.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Your sneakers ranked Hookah one hundred plus dollars, on Cloud
one hundred plus dollars, sambas like everything now is like
north of one hundred dollars. I guess the question is
each one of these things share something different about ourselves.
Do you care or don't you care what sneakers people
(33:30):
are wearing? Does it matter? This isn't about who you are. Care,
don't care? Tia talk to us the hype beasts herself care.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
I'm sorry. You know, when I go on dates, I'm
definitely looking.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
What are you wearing?
Speaker 5 (33:40):
What are you wearing? What are your sneakers?
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Now here's a question because I remember this old adage
back in the day.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I mean, I feel like I'm like geriatric at this point.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
There's that adage that like women judge men buy their shoes.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
They're like, oh, I'm judging, And.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
It really was about like how clean they were, if
they were in shape. But I just saw a Rebot
collaboration with Selene and the shoes looked like they were
ran over by the dump truck, like literally out the box.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
They looked like dirty.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Afright, So clear, this isn't about like cleanliness, This is
about what fill in the blank. So you I'm judging
you on a date, as you say, you look at
those sneakers.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
What are you judging on? What's the criteria?
Speaker 5 (34:22):
Swag?
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Do you have it?
Speaker 6 (34:25):
Or?
Speaker 5 (34:29):
But I rely on you, you.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Know I can rely on you.
Speaker 8 (34:34):
Don't embarrass me.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Oh my gosh, this is great.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
You didn't put effort into the food where you're going
to put effort into the relationship.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
I think it's a fair question.
Speaker 5 (34:45):
It says a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
It says a lot.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
It's because sneakers, sneakers shoes in general are more long
term time horizon, like you wear their longer relationship a relationship.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I see it. You know.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
There's a there's a song by Frank Ocean on his
Loddy Ro mixtape it's called denim, and he got a
love like dinim. It lasts last, love it last, right,
And if you picked the wrong thing, then I don't
know what we're talking about here, all right, maya sneakers care,
don't care.
Speaker 6 (35:12):
It's less about the price and more about the brand
and the look. And so to that end, I do care.
And also on the dating aspect, if your like shoes
match your outfit, that's going an extra step and that's
a huge point for.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Me, right right, So the market listen up, ye, pay attention.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Dating advice. It's a new segment we have here on market.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
So the market's talking to the market this.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
It's right.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
We get we to get like hinged, Yeah, yeah, exactly,
grinder and tender onto the pod.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Let's talk about this. That's right, Okay, So sneakers, we
got it. They matter. Bag.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
There's like the fancy, fancy bags.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
The Louis Buitons of the world.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
In New York City to gales point at least, there's
the tote bags, the Trader Joe's totes bags.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Or the New Yorker Toast's bag.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Tote bag's a big one, right, So like the bag,
sometimes these bags can be hundreds of thousands, hundred of dollars,
thousands of dollars. Sometimes they can be a thirty dollars bag,
but they kind of say to them out who you are,
or in other cases they complete the outfit or both.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Do they matter? Bags care, don't care.
Speaker 7 (36:23):
Don't care?
Speaker 5 (36:24):
I feel like, yeah, it's different.
Speaker 8 (36:27):
I feel I think a cheap bag is totally fine
and there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 5 (36:30):
So yeah, I'll rock with that too.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
The hype beasts of spoken.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
Yeah, MYA care, don't care?
Speaker 6 (36:40):
You know here, I think I would actually say I care,
and I understand the whole like the cheap bag works,
and that's also part of the choice, right, that's part
of your authenticity.
Speaker 7 (36:50):
I have the Trader Joe's tote bag. I love it.
I use it all the time.
Speaker 6 (36:54):
I also have toat bags that I painted with my
friends and I love those as well. So I like
using what's obviously it's good for my utility. Yeah, but
also I like happing. Somebody has a bit of personality
and that's my own choice to me. Yeah, but I
think it always says a little bit about who you are.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
I love a good tote and I tell you I
love my can Lion's tote.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
I get it every year. I love them.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
I love my south By Southwest totes that they give
us every year. I love them. I'm here for them. Yeah,
all right, last one. We talked about this a little bit.
Consider what you all said about sneakers. I'm really curious
about this one. Water bottles. Again, they span the gamut
because price. They're different brands that have different meanings. I
imagine you will enlighteness, care, don't care. So when you're
(37:39):
in the classroom, or you pull up into the Ugly
or wherever you are, right you pull up.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
This undergraduate library for those who are from Michigan.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
You pull up wherever you are and you put your
water bottle on the table. You see someone else their
water bottle on the table, do you care or don't care?
Speaker 2 (37:54):
What brand it is and what it may say about them?
Speaker 5 (37:56):
For me, don't care.
Speaker 8 (37:57):
I feel like I've never been part of like the
talk with the Stanley's or the o Walas. I don't
know why. I feel like it was. I was with
people who were like, oh, like who cares? Like like
why is this getting so much high? Like why is
people caring so much? So I feel like I was
always like, okay, like doesn't matter. Then I guess to me,
so don't care for me?
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Okay, so sneakers matter, bag's not so much, and water
bottles not so much. Okay, yeah, all right, maya talk
to us? Because I know you love your owala, you
love your You love exactly you carry with your where
you go. Care, don't care. Are you judging potential interests
or potential friends even based on the water bottle that
they have.
Speaker 7 (38:34):
I'm not judging.
Speaker 6 (38:35):
I respect someone that has a well decorated one because
that's commitment.
Speaker 7 (38:41):
But you know, I don't really care as much. I
don't think I really did.
Speaker 6 (38:46):
I never hopped on the hydroflask or the Stanley, also
because it's obscenely large.
Speaker 7 (38:51):
But but it comes to the water bottles.
Speaker 6 (38:55):
If you want to make it a market of ownership,
go for it. Mad respect, but not the biggest thing
about me.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Right, I actually have one last one that was the
last one. This is the last one.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
This is something that irks me. I'll be honest, it
irks me. I see my daughter Georgia, who fancies herself
as fashionable.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
She got an eye. I'll give it to her.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
But She'll have one Nike sneakers with Adidas socks and
a New Balanced sweatshirt.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yo.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
When I was growing up, this was blasphemous. We call
it perpetrating. Like why you purpin, dude, Like, you can't
wear different brands in the same category. You can't wear Adidas,
Nike and New Balance. What are you talking about. It's
like wearing He'll figure Polo and Nautica. You don't do that.
But she's like a thing. Kara, don't care perpetrating, Kara,
(39:45):
don't care. Maya First, I don't.
Speaker 6 (39:47):
Really care in how we make decisions as consumers. This
world has constant innovation with products and brands, so discovery
and taste outweigh loyalty to me.
Speaker 7 (40:00):
So perpetrating not that bad.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
I love it. You can mix it up.
Speaker 8 (40:05):
You it care care, care, care care.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
That is clashing. It's clashing.
Speaker 8 (40:15):
I think for me, I definitely grew up because I
grew up playing like basketball and stuff. Nike was like
my thing, you know, Michael Jordan, I was like, yes, Nike,
and I always felt like Adidas was definitely those like
lifestyle things that were trying to hop in with like
soccer and everything they were in on it kind of.
But I was never like I'm not worring Adidas, like
like I'm not doing that. So I was so loyal
to Nike and like I would have like debates with people,
(40:37):
I'm like, no, like Nike, He's just it, and I
always resonated with them.
Speaker 5 (40:40):
So I feel like, care for sure.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
You're still loyal?
Speaker 6 (40:43):
Right?
Speaker 5 (40:44):
Oh wait, still loyal to this day?
Speaker 1 (40:46):
I love?
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Yeah, still loyal. There's us marketers. What would one more
question for you guys if we gave you, like, all right,
here's you know, here's one hundred thousand dollars. You've got
to go market a water bottle, Like you've got to
go get more people to want your water bottle. Like,
what's your advice for the brands out there? The marketers
out there?
Speaker 1 (41:06):
What do you do?
Speaker 3 (41:07):
How do you earn that identity position place in my life?
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Any tips?
Speaker 7 (41:14):
I guess, make an experience.
Speaker 6 (41:15):
If this conversation has been anything, it's tell a story,
but also help your consumer create a story, because that
becomes more meaningful with time. So I guess water bottles
seem like a fad time and again there's something new,
But if you're going to create a new one, then
make it an experience for someone to be proud to
(41:37):
participate in and create.
Speaker 7 (41:38):
That war for us to fight in. Yeah, exclusivity for sure.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I love this.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
Yeah, Tiya Maya, thank you so very much for bring
us into your world and schooling us like you that
you have already done.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
And continue to do.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
I don't know about you, Gail Visaya or and no,
and again I feel smarter when we have these versations,
and sometimes.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
I feel humbled, not what I don't know, yep, but also.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
I feel emboldened because what we're hearing here is exactly
if the literature has been telling us that consumption is
a cultural act, and that cultural act is predicated on
what things mean to us, and we negotiate that meaning
not as individuals but as collectives. Whether it's something that
is conspicuous there but can see publicly, or even things
(42:28):
that no one sees. These things matter. People matter, and
if you are trying to be a part of consumption,
then you've got to understand the people.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's so true, and I once again
thank you both. We learn so much, and I think
one of the things I love about everyone every episode
of Market says is generationally it's really easy.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
To look and judge. We did this, you do that.
I don't get it right.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
And what I love is every time we ask the questions,
which more of us should do more often, both as
marketers and as old people, like there's reason, there's deep,
rich stories, and there's there's motivations, and understanding them is
what will make us all better marketers, whether you're trying
to sell.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Boats to boomers or you're.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
Trying to sell water bottles to college students, like, understanding
the motivation is everything, and you guys helped us do
that yet again.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
So thank you funs Amen, Amen, thank you all so
very much, and thank you to everyone for tuning in
for another episode of Market says, tune back in next
time where we get blown away by the brilliance of
the market, particularly the market represented at the Row School
of Business Unisity of Michigan. We love having you with us,
and we love being informed and we love being enlightened.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
So please join us again until Dan.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Peace, Market says, there's a Pubblo Media. iHeart podcast production.
If you're not in the conversation, you're not in the game.
I'm excited about this one.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Great to have you guys back. Maya and Tia.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
You always make us a little bit smarter when it
comes to understanding the gen Z consumer and what the
market actually says.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
So welcome back now, Gail.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'll tell you this.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
When I was in high school, I feel like high
school is really where I found myself in the world
of fashion. I mean, when I was younger, I used
to wear like a Latin T shirts. It was like whatever,
it was like, you know, But once I got int
high school. I remember this so so vividly. My first
day of school, I wore a Mighty Mouse T shirt
with yellow jeans to match the Mighty Mouse aesthetic, and
(00:53):
I remember feeling like a complete loser. And so I
got back in the car my mother picked me up.
I was like, we got to go to the mall
right now. And from that day on, my wardrobe basically
was a collage of Timmy Hill, Figure, Polo and Nautica
Like that was like all I wore, and the bigger
(01:13):
the logo, the better. Like I wanted everyone to know,
Oh my god, everyone had to know. In fact, where
my Nautica jacket. I used to keep like the little
flotation device thing on. I used to keep it hooked
to my jackets like everybody else did, because conspicuous consumption
was at the core of identity projection. But I feel
(01:33):
like today things are far more innocuous, Things are far
more muted, if you will, So, I think the question
becomes if consumption hasn't changed as far as its volume.
In fact, I arguable say that we consume more now,
But the manner in which we consume, and it's visibility,
(01:53):
its public nature, is constantly being negotiated.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
What does this.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Mean for brands that become a part of who we
are and how we want to be seen in the marketplace. So,
of course my high school years are far far far
behind us. We are in a new day, a new time,
in a new world. So of course we have with
us the market. Tell us get a better understanding of
(02:19):
this world. Tia maya welcome back to market, says you
blew us away the first time, so we had to
get your brilliance back with us. Today we're talking about,
I would say, conspicuous consumption through the lens of what
we wear when we drive, how we adorn ourselves, all
(02:41):
the public displays of consumption with me.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yes, yes, thank you for having us.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Let's get this going here.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
When you think about the brands you buy, are you
ever considering what people think about those brands or are
you going in saying that, like, I buy this because
I care, I buy this because I think it's dope.
Talk us through the cognitive process of consumption when it
comes to its visibility to the world.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
Well, when it comes to considering different perspectives. With the
items that I buy for me, my biggest priority is
kind of just the story that it tells. Maybe it's
from that marketer's lens, but I love storytelling in any aspect,
and oftentimes my favorite pieces that I wear has little
story to it. Maybe it's a hand me down from
my mother, maybe it's something from my cousin. But that's
(03:34):
kind of my biggest priority. And also because it's a
bit more affordable. But when it comes to maybe the
daily where oftentimes I just go to utility, what looks good,
what's more accessible. But when you guys talk sneakers, when
you talk cars, somehow these have become bigger marks of
identity in different ways. And I'd say that my workflow
(03:58):
is kind of understanding what my utility is, what I need.
Speaker 7 (04:02):
If I need a sneaker, if.
Speaker 6 (04:03):
I need a formal shoe, then I honestly go to
Pinterest get some ideas of what that could look like,
and then I go to TikTok and Instagram and get
those perspective of what's new, what's cool?
Speaker 7 (04:15):
What why not know? Because those platforms.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
In my mind tell me what's underground, what's maybe a
bit more often to myself.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
So if I'm hearing this right, you look sort of
for functionality congruence, like I'm looking for this kind of shoe,
this kind of top, this kind of jacket that meets
these I's called it empirical functional needs, whether it's like
it needs to be warm, it needs to be black,
it needs to be these things right and being you
(04:45):
kind of go into these other more social settings to
get a sense of it's context, it's meaning, like what
is the story saying beyond what the functionality and maybe
how those things are received by the public.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Am I going too far there?
Speaker 6 (05:00):
Mind?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Zeba right now?
Speaker 7 (05:01):
Absolutely, you said it perfectly, all.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Right, Tia, Gail. You got to know tea is a
bit of a hyphen.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
East right, Thank you are right in her world.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
This is her sanctuary, this is bring it.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
What hype are you subscribing to right now?
Speaker 8 (05:20):
Oh, I'm very much into the street where I feel
like that's my main style. And for me, it's not
about I think the pressure was, how does you care
what other people think?
Speaker 5 (05:29):
For me, it's not what everyone thinks. It's more the
people who know know.
Speaker 8 (05:34):
And That's where I'm coming in, and I'm like, I'm
going to wear what I want and people who think
it's cool will think it's cool because they will know
the brand, they will.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Know its legacy.
Speaker 8 (05:44):
So I feel whenever it comes to choosing brands that
I want to like wear or it's not got to
do with the logo, but more of the meaning of
that brand.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
And it's very much to those people, if you know,
you know.
Speaker 8 (05:56):
And I feel like when I go out with these brands,
to those who I can kind of relate to, we
can have a chat, we can you know, recognize each other,
and so I feel like that's like my community of people,
So it's not just for everybody, and I feel like
people can notice that people who are not in it,
it's also like that's cool what you're wearing. I love
how you kind of show who you are through these
(06:17):
like marks of clothing, and I can I really feel it.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I love that.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
To Maya's point, then these things are still socially constructed, like, yes,
this is happening among group of people. So it's not
just the functionality of the product, of the garment, of
the artifact alone. It's sort of the story that we
have all our people have collectively brought into exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
You know, it's interesting you even said it.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
You're like, when I go out with this brand, right,
it's like you're you're taking this brand to a party,
You're taking them out with your friends the dinner. You're right,
You're you're actually going out with a brand. I think
that's a fascinating phrase, right, it is, And it's super interesting.
I mean, if brands are a signal, right, if you know,
you know, Marcus, we had big logo, they were very
(07:01):
overt signals for gen xers back in the day. Right
on the back of my ass there's a big brand
on the gens pocket and that said who you were.
Were you a Levi's person or Assesssoon person or you know,
all those different brands through the years, The Citizens for
Humanity and it's interesting to think about that. You see
(07:21):
your brand identification as a way to signal, hey, if
you know, you know, we're we're going to be friends,
we're in a club, we have some sort of shared
passion interest, identity. I kind of love using a brand
to create community.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I guess is what you're saying, Is that fair?
Speaker 5 (07:39):
It's exactly that.
Speaker 8 (07:40):
It's not also that, but there's like underlying tones that
we say or like inside jokes, So not just wearing,
also the clothes, but also human connection. It's it goes
beyond you know, it's got to do with music as well.
It's it's something quite deeply connected that I'm very proud
to show the.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
World, Amaya. Question for you, are all categories the same?
So like the sneakers you wear, is it the same
sort of congruence that you look for when it comes
to a jacket or a backpack or a bag or
I noticed this is this is one of the things
that was not on my radar before I started teaching.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Gail.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
I don't know if this has got your attention, but
water bottles are a big thing in school.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Oh yeah, I've seen the water bottle trend.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
It's crazy, like before it was like crazy Stanley, it
was like are you a hydro flask kind of person?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Are you? It's a whole thing. It's a hard thing.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
So I guess maam my question for you, and I
definitely want to hear from you too well, Tia, are
all categories created equal? Like do you have the same
sort of negotiation process or at the very least the
same social obligation when it comes to your articles of
clothing versus some other artifact or even something as big
(08:54):
as maybe even you know, the car or your drive
or the bike you ride.
Speaker 7 (08:59):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
I think when it comes to the category, it truly
is about where you are and what you can display.
If you're talking about a college setting, oftentimes I always
have my water ball on me, I have.
Speaker 7 (09:11):
My O walla.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Yeah right.
Speaker 6 (09:15):
But I think in college I've also seen so many
people with like the classic long shampope bag and that
was not something that I had even seen before college,
and suddenly everyone had it and I was like, where
did that memo come from?
Speaker 7 (09:27):
But when it comes to the workplace.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
From a conference room in Paris, yeah, they were doing
something right, yo, for sure.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
I Mean that's a really good point because before I
started teaching. We moved from New York here and we
had just had Georgia, our eldest, and my wife had
like this like busted coat. I won't name the brains
so I want to throw any shape, but it was
like it was old.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
It wasn't like a bad coach, just had it for
a long time.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
And I remember it being winter and I saw all
the like the young folks wearing these parka coats. I
was like, oh man, I'm gonna buy one of those
from my wife that had like a nice little red
circle that we all know would be Canada goose, I mean, Gail.
Everybody seemingly in the business school was wearing this coat.
I went to go buy one online. This is a
thousand dollar coat.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah yeah, I live on a ski mountain in the winter.
It is an insanely expensive coat. And yet everybody found
money for it, right because exactly why?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Because I wasn't buying it.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Why does that red circle mean so much? Why?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Right?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Exactly? So, Like to Maya's point, I was like, this
is fascinating. I didn't know, like why everyone buys this coat.
I've never seen an ad for it. And when I
asked students about you know, have they seen an ad
for it? Nope? But why do they buy it? Because
everybody else buys it? Right, it's this sort of social
contagion is happening here. But it's not only with a
forty five dollars water bottle, which is a ridiculous price,
(10:52):
by the way, but also you know these thousand dollars coats,
Like this.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Is a good We're here to learn, Marcus, not judge.
I'm learning.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
You're right, We listen. We don't judge. You're right, we listened.
We don't judge.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
But Maya, do you feel that like across the entire board,
Like is it really category agnostic when it's conspicuous in
its nature?
Speaker 6 (11:13):
You know, honestly, it's about in my perspective, it would
be more about what you truly value. Like I love
Maya Wola, but I came to it around my sophomore
year of college, and that's late in the game for
some people. Some people make it their whole mark of identity.
They decorate it with stickers. They started with the hydroflask
and have met every trend with its time.
Speaker 7 (11:36):
So if it's part of.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
Your utility, if it's part of something that you think
is important to show other people. Then definitely that category matters.
I definitely think maybe for a younger gen Z generation,
we're coming into the car age because at the time,
I'd say with our younger demographic, affordability is the biggest concern,
So we can't be going out and buying horses and
(12:00):
so many other things. But I would love to see
what that changes with time. So when you look at
all these different categories, it's truly about what says the
most about you in the circles that you want to
be in. So Antia's point of if you know, you
kind of know, So what demographic do you want to
give importance to in terms of deciding if you're cool.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Enough or not.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I guess the question is, Tia, do you have a
Canada Goose?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (12:29):
I do have the fuck Cross.
Speaker 8 (12:30):
So when you were saying, I was like, oh, did
follow on that one? Yeah, it's a good jacket, you know.
Coming to Michigan, I was like, I need a good coast.
I convinced my parents and we're like, you know, we're
gonna I'm gonna get it.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
And yeah, it's too big.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
It's such a big jacket.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I can't well, it's a fascinating brand because it is performance, right.
I mean they were designed for like people working in
the Arctic, And you know what.
Speaker 8 (12:55):
Did I need that much of a jacket? Like it's
good performance, but I don't think I needed it that
probably Michigan Winter in a lesser brain step.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
The logo.
Speaker 8 (13:05):
I picked the one with the biggest logo, and'm gonna
be real. It was my first kind of the goose.
It was a big go for Yeah, if you know.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
You know that, you won't know if you can't see it.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
The lyric tells us this it does. The lyric is
pretty unambiguous.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
Here is that, you know, consumption is a cultural app
We buy the things because of who we are and
what it means for people like us. And you know
you all are really you're kind of giving us evidence
of this, give us a proof point of this. It's
just I guess the difference is what's acceptable today is
different than it was some years ago when when at
(13:40):
the night.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
School, Well, I think we talked a lot like.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Brands that are over that signal, right, like you got
your water bottle out, it's sitting there in the classroom
with you. It's like you're carrying it around and the coat, right,
the coat in Michigan, you gotta wear a coat all
winter most of the year. And it's a thing. Right,
it's on your body, You're projecting it. It's milling. This
is who I am. So I understand branding there, right, fashion,
(14:05):
I really get right. We talk sneakers like they're on
your feet most days, like they're really become a part
of the image you put on as you go out
of the house every day into the world. What about
like the brands we don't see, are there any brands
that are part of your identity that maybe bring you joy?
I was thinking about even like brands as consumers you
(14:27):
actually consume, Like do you have food and drink brands
that like they mean something to you? Maybe they make
you feel something on a bad day you seek out
this or you know it got to study all night,
I'm going to go for this meal or this dinner.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Like, are there any of those kinds of brands that we.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
May never see you consume but the brand matters absolutely?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, when you talk about food.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
I think there's a Trader Joe's my hometown that is
right next to my house. So my sister and I
would always go and walk there and grab random snacks.
Those Trader Joe's Talkies are probably in my bloodstream at
this point, and it might be bad for my heart,
but they are so so good. I actually have a
hoodie with that on the back, the Trader Joe's Talkies,
(15:18):
and I made it my sas crazy and it's something
I'm very proud of. I think Trader Joe's is such
a great brand as self, and that is so exciting too,
because it feels authentic as a brand, but it's also
something that I authentically consume at insane amounts.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
That's actually the question is going to ask, like, what's
the story then? So if the idea is that consumption
comes with these sort of cultful stories that we tell
ourselves and we negotiate with other people, what's the stories
of Trader Joe's Talkies.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
I mean it started with talkies, I will not lie,
and I think it was around middle school where everyone
was just eating these talkies and it was about your
spice tolerance.
Speaker 7 (15:55):
If you go way back.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
It started with flaming hot Cheetos. Then talk He's became
more of a thing. The Blue Talkies had its moment
and suddenly I discovered these Trader Joe's ones, and I
think it's because my mom just saw them and grabbed them,
and they just taste better. It doesn't feel like I'm
eating red Dye number forty.
Speaker 7 (16:15):
It feels a bit more authentic as of food.
Speaker 6 (16:18):
But also, as I've grown up, the Trader Joe's brand
is also something that I'm very proud to stand by.
So it's those late nights where I'm staying up and
downing a whole bag with my friends. It's studying together.
It's a communal snack. So a lot of great memories
have been around Trader Joe's talkies. And whenever I go
(16:39):
to Trader Joe's on campus, which is a good forty
minute hike, I always grab like six bags and then
I'm out in my house dealing them to my roommates
and they love it.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
So, oh yes, I was rolled just like a day
ago by a fairly you know, ahead of the trend's
friend that the Trader Joe's tote bag is the new
status symbol for summer.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Oh yeah, so you were.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Right ahead of the trend here, as far as I've
been told. That's interesting, right, Who would think a grocery
store brand would become a fashion brand or an accessory brand.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
It says a lot, right.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
I think for me, it's like beauty products. A lot
of my beauty products.
Speaker 8 (17:22):
It's ones that my mom recommended and used on me
at a young age.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
So I was like, Okay, I guess it works out.
It does. It smells nice, and I really like it.
Speaker 8 (17:31):
And I feel like I've just continued using it because
I've been so like stubborn on changing products or trying
different things because it's just been since I was young,
I've been using it. So a lot of like lotions.
I really like the like US lotions. Those are like
my favorites. And I feel like everyone like if you
recommend me like another show, I'm like, I'm not going
to try that. Like I feel like I'm very stubborn
(17:51):
on this kind of things. But it's just because like
it was built. Yeah, and it's not something I'm going
to tell everyone like I use it, you know, like
it's not something I'm very proud of. But it's like
that's just like in like in my own home, I'm
just constantly buying it. Again I run out, I'm gonna
go repurchase. So yeah, that's aey something.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
So here's a question for us.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Let's do like a brand check right now, like what
brands are you all wearing and how conspicuous is the consumption?
For instance, like may you have on like a mocknek
sort of sweater like object? Can people tell what brand
it is from?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Afar?
Speaker 6 (18:26):
No, this is something I'm proud to wear because I
haven't seen it in mass production yet. Yeah, and I
hope I don't because this is one of my favorite
sweaters and it's from a boutique in my hometown.
Speaker 7 (18:38):
I know it's a chain.
Speaker 6 (18:39):
I've seen it in other places in Michigan, but it
is a bit smaller and that's also a mark of
ownership for me in saying that I got it from
my hometown boutique.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Yeah, it's almost a twist on quiet luxury. It's like
to your point, like if you know, you know right
to that point you were making earlier, absolutely tea. How
about you? What are you wearing right now and are
they conspicuous?
Speaker 5 (18:58):
For me?
Speaker 8 (19:00):
Sneakers are like Nike, Urban Outfitters and Jaded London. So yeah,
kind of like fun brands, very mixed, but yeah, I
feel like those are like core from me.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
I really like those brands.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
So people would know what sneakers you're wearing, right, they'll
see that the Nikes, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
The only one that has a brand like logo. The rest.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
No, So if you know, you know, yeah, sneakers are
hard to be anonymous, right, I think they're all mostly
all understood, right, hard to find a brand in that
category that's not actually understood.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Gail, are you thinking about like your visible consumption these days?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I'm now thinking about what I put on, and I
know these are like.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Gap khakis maybe, which had a conversation. I never wore
khakis in my life, and then I don't know, I
bought my first hair last summer, and I was like,
I think I get why all those men have been
wearing these pants forever.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
They're insanely comfortable. They're very comforting, really delightful. I just
was never that person. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Maybe I thought they were too gay.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
It's the year of the khaki for Gail.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Could it ever be too gay? Though, Gail? Could it
ever be too gay?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
You know that's my other podcast, Gay I you know,
and gay. I know you can never be too gay? No,
that was the thank you?
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah, what about you, doctor Collins. What do you rock
in here?
Speaker 7 (20:21):
Mark through?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
What kind of headphones through those? That's what I want
to know.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Oh, you know, these are these audio dynamics. Those ones
are supposed to be like really for audio files. My
students know this or should know this by now. I
basically wear a uniform. Basically wear the same thing every day.
It's either different colored khakis with a button up shirt.
It's either white or powder blue. That's it. And I
(20:46):
wear sweater.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
The khakis are normally gap because they fit really well.
The tops are always J Crew or Ralph Lauren two.
If I'm wearing jeans, then I'm wearing Levi's.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
That's the fit. So I guess you know, I see
what's happening here.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Whether it's like the way you adorn your water bottle,
you adorn your laptop, right, you put stickers on it
to make it your own, like my idea, you go.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I know it's mass produced, but I have to make
it my own, right.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Grant mccrackey talks about this, as you all both know,
as a possession ritual, right, and this is the way
that we make it ours to help give it meaning,
and that meaning deepens our relationship with the product, the
brand product, and therefore we can immerse our ideaity in
to it. So that makes sense. For the things that
you have now, I guess what I'm kind of curious
about and I'm really really I really do want you
(21:50):
all to sort of bring us into this world, is
how do you discover it? Like for things that you
don't currently own, now, for things that you will be pering,
will be consuming, how do you know which ones are
the ones? Like if maya to your earlier point that
you buy things for the functional side, or you consider
them for the functional side, but then you go on TikTok,
(22:12):
you go on Pinterest to see like how people are
socially negotiating this. Now you are the people. How do
you get inspiration for what to buy? And how do
you engage in the discourse on what those things means?
Let's start with the first how do you discover what
to buy?
Speaker 7 (22:30):
I guess seasonal utility?
Speaker 6 (22:32):
Okay, and that just gives you the basic of say
I want a tank top where I want a shirt,
but I need it to be light and airy. And
then that's where I go and kind of look at
my idols. I love looking at fashion icons and seeing
what they're wearing. And as I get older, I'm more
and more inclined to wear things I have just a
(22:53):
bit more personality. Take this sweater for example, this little
stitch detail that has right now, I've seen it on
different pieces of clothing, but I haven't seen it on
a piece like this before. And that felt like pulling
something that I was inspired by and my utility and
putting it into one thing. So when it comes to that,
(23:15):
utility is important. But style and taste I think is
becoming more increasingly important. So if you're going to talk
about discovery, I will also say taste might be outweighing
what we consider to be loyalty overall. So in crafting
that taste, discovery is truly kind of about your own
(23:36):
self taste and style and what tiny pieces can be
seen throughout the tiny piece of clothing that you wear.
Speaker 7 (23:44):
I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Yeah, this makes all the sense of the world. Okay,
The litera supports this very thing. Its taste becomes the
demarcation between where you are in a social hierarchy. Right,
The better the taste, the more culture you've were. As
Dude talks about it. And in a world that's like
driven by algorithms that are more increasingly becoming more driven
(24:07):
by AI, it's the taste of the curators that make
all the difference. That were able to put this piece
with that piece and that piece. This piece, you go,
that's dope, you go, oh, that's killer, the fact that
you saw that is killer, and then that, of course,
to your point, inspires what you buy because of the
belief that you have in that person's taste.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Is that fair to say TA talk to us.
Speaker 8 (24:31):
I think for me to find the question was to
how do you find like these items and all this?
Speaker 5 (24:38):
I feel like it's definite.
Speaker 8 (24:39):
Yeah, influencers who I relate to, and I can see
myself like I can relate and understand them, and I
really look into their fashion and I can kind of
absorb it. But it is mostly like me myself. And
I feel like, looking back, I've always kind of more
inclined to buy things that most people didn't like, and
(25:00):
I feel like I wanted to always be at the
start of it. And I like when people hate on
things because I'm always defied to say, you know, I
see beauty in it, and I think I'm special and
I feel like items. I'm gonna say, like the sambas
because I was in it at the beginning.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
I really like them. A lot of people like they're
so ugly. I hate them.
Speaker 8 (25:19):
Suddenly they started gaining more and more popularity, and now
everyone had zambis, especially in Europe.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
It was super super popular, and.
Speaker 8 (25:26):
I was like, you know what, now I don't want
to be in it anymore. I don't want to be
part of it. So I'm not gonna wear the sambas
anymore because y'all ruined it. No one liked at the beginning,
and I liked it, And now it's not cool.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
It's not cool because everyone has.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Tokyo.
Speaker 8 (25:39):
Yeah, it's definitely popularity no more, it's done. The trend's over.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Now it's done. You want to be first, right, yes,
first to it?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
So are you following a bunch of influencers who are
always sort of like throwing new things at you and
you're able to go, yeah, yes, I'm gonna I'm gonna
jump on that.
Speaker 8 (25:56):
We're talking about first in line with the drops? When
is it gonna drop? And who's first in line? Are
we gonna queue for this? What's how much value are
we putting into this. You know, let's talk about that.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
That is a oh my god, yeah, talk about gen
X versus gen Z Marcus. I do not understand the
desire to wait in the line.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
The things we avoided lines, We were like, whoa, there's
lines about.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I'll get it another time, I won't get it, Like,
oh my god, it's like, there's mine justifies the brand
and the thing and the purchase. Explain the line to me,
the collab, the pop up, the limited editions, the waiting.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
What's the waiting about?
Speaker 8 (26:39):
It's a war, so you're gonna go in with the mindset, Oh,
I'm gonna fight for this, and when I get it,
I'm going to be the coolest person there because I
went in with the idea of war.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
This is insane. And I think my parents think I'm crazy.
Speaker 8 (26:51):
I'm definitely the type to you put value into things
that they don't think there's no value.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
Like for them, that's like why would you even do that?
You know?
Speaker 8 (26:58):
But I think when I tell people who are in
my circle, they're like, that's so worth it, though, that
makes so much sense.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Why you would do that, you know?
Speaker 5 (27:05):
And I feel like I'm like, okay, then yeah, I'm
going to continue doing this.
Speaker 8 (27:08):
I feel like Supreme when it was like they would
drop every Thursday and then you have to like queue outside,
and it was just more of the excitement. It's more
fun to like the feeling of like I might get it,
you know, I'm gonna fight for this. Then like at
like when you got it, then it's like okay, yeah,
But like I feel like that gave so much anticipation
and so much more love and care for the product
(27:28):
rather than like it just being on sale for everyone.
You know, it was very exclusive. You had to work
for it, right, Yes, you had to work for it,
you know.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
We had a couple of friends kids stay with us
a couple of weeks ago in Rhode Island. They got
up at four am, which was mind blowing. Okay, four
am on like the Thursday, to go get in a
line for a pop up. It was a Haley Bieber
Road pop up that.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
They got up at four They were in line at
four thirty am and they waited a lot. Thing opened
at ten.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
They like, they made their purchase sometime around noon and
then they had to come back at five pm to
get it.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
And I was like, oh my god, that's a twelve
hour commitments.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
The experience, the experience, it's memorable.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
It's the story.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
Is the story? There we go. That's what's different.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Starting there right, like Maya you started with, it's all
about the story and the narrative. And Marcus, what I
find fascinating about the pop ups and the waiting is
it used to be genius creatives like you, Marcus would
write the story and you'd tell us the story. And
now I think, gen Z, if I'm hearing this right,
(28:41):
you're actually creating the story by going there, getting up early,
bringing your friends, getting your coffee, committing to the purchase,
and fighting the war to get the thing. Like you're
actually writing your own story, which is it is very
different kind of marketing, isn't.
Speaker 7 (28:57):
It It is.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
I mean, maybe I'm reading this is too much, but
I like where you're going here, Gail, because I feel
like perhaps in Maya tea police correcting here. Hey, when
I'm gleaning here, at least I'm thinking that, you know,
back in the day, back in the day when we
were engaged in conspicuous consumption in our high school years,
college years, having the means to acquire it was the
(29:23):
earning it right that like if I, if you wore this,
you had that, then you had money signingal where you
were on the social hierarchy, and perhaps maybe the earning
it here is far more laborious, like you have the
labor for it. Yeah, right that Like I stood in
line to get the the Almar swatchwatch, I stood in
(29:44):
line to get the Dove and Crumble Cookie collaboration. I
stood in line to get those Nike drops. I did,
I did it, I earned it. So yeah, again I
might be digging too much, but yeah, and a world
that's more democratized now than in back then, that getting
access to it when it's at mass scale maya to
(30:05):
your earlier point, Like that's not you didn't really earn it,
right because like you get online, it comes right to you. Boom,
there it is.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
You earned it on the front end, right, you had
to exactly work to get the money to earn it.
Now you actually have to work to get the money
to be able to buy it, and then you have
to actually do more labor to go wait for it,
fight your way through no even just following and understand it.
Where is the pop up and where is this thing dropping?
And yeah, it's a lot harder.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, I think that's kind of the point.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Like I suppose it is harder, and therefore it signals
that you have more time, disposable time, you have more
disposable knowledge as well, or more industry specific knowledge as
you know what the right thing to get, what's in
in line for Okay, I'll stop see it, Maya.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
If I'm if I'm barking up the wrong tree, please
let me know.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
But that's this is sort of what I'm deducing as
you are speaking.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Talk to me.
Speaker 6 (30:58):
Absolutely, I'm I mean, we're talking about fashion, and now
that we're talking about this conversation with putting in the work,
one thing we have.
Speaker 7 (31:07):
To address is thrifting.
Speaker 6 (31:09):
And so many of the people around me that wear
some of the coolest pieces of clothing, if they answer
to my question of where did you get this?
Speaker 7 (31:17):
With thrifting, I hate them.
Speaker 6 (31:19):
I'm so mad because I have no patience to go
and sort through racks and racks of clothing to find
one gem. But they do, and they find that one gem,
and it's like the gold rush. They're trying to find
that one piece, and that one piece eats. It's such
a good piece, and I'm so jealous. And I know
that I don't have the capacity to go and do that.
(31:41):
But if I ever do find something that I feel
is a little more underground or something where I put
in a bit more work to go get it, maybe
I've done research on like the quality of material, all
those things. That's part of my journey and story in
wearing this with pride, and so that is another huge
thing about out Mark's ownership, about earning the items that
(32:04):
you want to represent your own abilities, your work and
your time and all those things. So I haven't been
a thrifting person, but that's something I aspire to be.
Maybe it's my patience, maybe it's my taste, but putting
in the work and getting something that you feel as
authentic to yourself is something that I am definitely working towards,
(32:26):
even if it is just for clothing that reflects different
parts of my life as well.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
It's the grooming ritual all over again, Like it's this
is another ritual by which we get things meaning associated
with our identity. Shout out to Granat McCracken, who's just
way ahead of ahead of his time here.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
All right, So we're getting to that part of the.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Show which you all know this is the speed round,
I say, quote unquote speed round.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Do you care? I don't care. That's sort of like
where the rubber meets the road.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
If this show is about exploring how the market sees
the world and navigates through.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
It, this is where we go, all right. So the
survey says, what right? You know?
Speaker 4 (33:03):
We planned the case to the jewelry. Like the idea
is like, so what is the verdict here?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
So here we go.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Your sneakers ranked Hookah one hundred plus dollars, on Cloud
one hundred plus dollars, sambas like everything now is like
north of one hundred dollars. I guess the question is
each one of these things share something different about ourselves.
Do you care or don't you care what sneakers people
(33:30):
are wearing? Does it matter? This isn't about who you are. Care,
don't care? Tia talk to us the hype beasts herself care.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
I'm sorry. You know, when I go on dates, I'm
definitely looking.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
What are you wearing?
Speaker 5 (33:40):
What are you wearing? What are your sneakers?
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Now here's a question because I remember this old adage
back in the day.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I mean, I feel like I'm like geriatric at this point.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
There's that adage that like women judge men buy their shoes.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
They're like, oh, I'm judging, And.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
It really was about like how clean they were, if
they were in shape. But I just saw a Rebot
collaboration with Selene and the shoes looked like they were
ran over by the dump truck, like literally out the box.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
They looked like dirty.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Afright, So clear, this isn't about like cleanliness, This is
about what fill in the blank. So you I'm judging
you on a date, as you say, you look at
those sneakers.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
What are you judging on? What's the criteria?
Speaker 5 (34:22):
Swag?
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Do you have it?
Speaker 6 (34:25):
Or?
Speaker 5 (34:29):
But I rely on you, you.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Know I can rely on you.
Speaker 8 (34:34):
Don't embarrass me.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Oh my gosh, this is great.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
You didn't put effort into the food where you're going
to put effort into the relationship.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
I think it's a fair question.
Speaker 5 (34:45):
It says a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
It says a lot.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
It's because sneakers, sneakers shoes in general are more long
term time horizon, like you wear their longer relationship a relationship.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I see it. You know.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
There's a there's a song by Frank Ocean on his
Loddy Ro mixtape it's called denim, and he got a
love like dinim. It lasts last, love it last, right,
And if you picked the wrong thing, then I don't
know what we're talking about here, all right, maya sneakers care,
don't care.
Speaker 6 (35:12):
It's less about the price and more about the brand
and the look. And so to that end, I do care.
And also on the dating aspect, if your like shoes
match your outfit, that's going an extra step and that's
a huge point for.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Me, right right, So the market listen up, ye, pay attention.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Dating advice. It's a new segment we have here on market.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
So the market's talking to the market this.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
It's right.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
We get we to get like hinged, Yeah, yeah, exactly,
grinder and tender onto the pod.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Let's talk about this. That's right, Okay, So sneakers, we
got it. They matter. Bag.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
There's like the fancy, fancy bags.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
The Louis Buitons of the world.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
In New York City to gales point at least, there's
the tote bags, the Trader Joe's totes bags.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Or the New Yorker Toast's bag.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Tote bag's a big one, right, So like the bag,
sometimes these bags can be hundreds of thousands, hundred of dollars,
thousands of dollars. Sometimes they can be a thirty dollars bag,
but they kind of say to them out who you are,
or in other cases they complete the outfit or both.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Do they matter? Bags care, don't care.
Speaker 7 (36:23):
Don't care?
Speaker 5 (36:24):
I feel like, yeah, it's different.
Speaker 8 (36:27):
I feel I think a cheap bag is totally fine
and there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 5 (36:30):
So yeah, I'll rock with that too.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
The hype beasts of spoken.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
Yeah, MYA care, don't care?
Speaker 6 (36:40):
You know here, I think I would actually say I care,
and I understand the whole like the cheap bag works,
and that's also part of the choice, right, that's part
of your authenticity.
Speaker 7 (36:50):
I have the Trader Joe's tote bag. I love it.
I use it all the time.
Speaker 6 (36:54):
I also have toat bags that I painted with my
friends and I love those as well. So I like
using what's obviously it's good for my utility. Yeah, but
also I like happing. Somebody has a bit of personality
and that's my own choice to me. Yeah, but I
think it always says a little bit about who you are.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
I love a good tote and I tell you I
love my can Lion's tote.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
I get it every year. I love them.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
I love my south By Southwest totes that they give
us every year. I love them. I'm here for them. Yeah,
all right, last one. We talked about this a little bit.
Consider what you all said about sneakers. I'm really curious
about this one. Water bottles. Again, they span the gamut
because price. They're different brands that have different meanings. I
imagine you will enlighteness, care, don't care. So when you're
(37:39):
in the classroom, or you pull up into the Ugly
or wherever you are, right you pull up.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
This undergraduate library for those who are from Michigan.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
You pull up wherever you are and you put your
water bottle on the table. You see someone else their
water bottle on the table, do you care or don't care?
Speaker 2 (37:54):
What brand it is and what it may say about them?
Speaker 5 (37:56):
For me, don't care.
Speaker 8 (37:57):
I feel like I've never been part of like the
talk with the Stanley's or the o Walas. I don't
know why. I feel like it was. I was with
people who were like, oh, like who cares? Like like
why is this getting so much high? Like why is
people caring so much? So I feel like I was
always like, okay, like doesn't matter. Then I guess to me,
so don't care for me?
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Okay, so sneakers matter, bag's not so much, and water
bottles not so much. Okay, yeah, all right, maya talk
to us? Because I know you love your owala, you
love your You love exactly you carry with your where
you go. Care, don't care. Are you judging potential interests
or potential friends even based on the water bottle that
they have.
Speaker 7 (38:34):
I'm not judging.
Speaker 6 (38:35):
I respect someone that has a well decorated one because
that's commitment.
Speaker 7 (38:41):
But you know, I don't really care as much. I
don't think I really did.
Speaker 6 (38:46):
I never hopped on the hydroflask or the Stanley, also
because it's obscenely large.
Speaker 7 (38:51):
But but it comes to the water bottles.
Speaker 6 (38:55):
If you want to make it a market of ownership,
go for it. Mad respect, but not the biggest thing
about me.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Right, I actually have one last one that was the
last one. This is the last one.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
This is something that irks me. I'll be honest, it
irks me. I see my daughter Georgia, who fancies herself
as fashionable.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
She got an eye. I'll give it to her.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
But She'll have one Nike sneakers with Adidas socks and
a New Balanced sweatshirt.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yo.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
When I was growing up, this was blasphemous. We call
it perpetrating. Like why you purpin, dude, Like, you can't
wear different brands in the same category. You can't wear Adidas,
Nike and New Balance. What are you talking about. It's
like wearing He'll figure Polo and Nautica. You don't do that.
But she's like a thing. Kara, don't care perpetrating, Kara,
(39:45):
don't care. Maya First, I don't.
Speaker 6 (39:47):
Really care in how we make decisions as consumers. This
world has constant innovation with products and brands, so discovery
and taste outweigh loyalty to me.
Speaker 7 (40:00):
So perpetrating not that bad.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
I love it. You can mix it up.
Speaker 8 (40:05):
You it care care, care, care care.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
That is clashing. It's clashing.
Speaker 8 (40:15):
I think for me, I definitely grew up because I
grew up playing like basketball and stuff. Nike was like
my thing, you know, Michael Jordan, I was like, yes, Nike,
and I always felt like Adidas was definitely those like
lifestyle things that were trying to hop in with like
soccer and everything they were in on it kind of.
But I was never like I'm not worring Adidas, like
like I'm not doing that. So I was so loyal
to Nike and like I would have like debates with people,
(40:37):
I'm like, no, like Nike, He's just it, and I
always resonated with them.
Speaker 5 (40:40):
So I feel like, care for sure.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
You're still loyal?
Speaker 6 (40:43):
Right?
Speaker 5 (40:44):
Oh wait, still loyal to this day?
Speaker 1 (40:46):
I love?
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Yeah, still loyal. There's us marketers. What would one more
question for you guys if we gave you, like, all right,
here's you know, here's one hundred thousand dollars. You've got
to go market a water bottle, Like you've got to
go get more people to want your water bottle. Like,
what's your advice for the brands out there? The marketers
out there?
Speaker 1 (41:06):
What do you do?
Speaker 3 (41:07):
How do you earn that identity position place in my life?
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Any tips?
Speaker 7 (41:14):
I guess, make an experience.
Speaker 6 (41:15):
If this conversation has been anything, it's tell a story,
but also help your consumer create a story, because that
becomes more meaningful with time. So I guess water bottles
seem like a fad time and again there's something new,
But if you're going to create a new one, then
make it an experience for someone to be proud to
(41:37):
participate in and create.
Speaker 7 (41:38):
That war for us to fight in. Yeah, exclusivity for sure.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I love this.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
Yeah, Tiya Maya, thank you so very much for bring
us into your world and schooling us like you that
you have already done.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
And continue to do.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
I don't know about you, Gail Visaya or and no,
and again I feel smarter when we have these versations,
and sometimes.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
I feel humbled, not what I don't know, yep, but also.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
I feel emboldened because what we're hearing here is exactly
if the literature has been telling us that consumption is
a cultural act, and that cultural act is predicated on
what things mean to us, and we negotiate that meaning
not as individuals but as collectives. Whether it's something that
is conspicuous there but can see publicly, or even things
(42:28):
that no one sees. These things matter. People matter, and
if you are trying to be a part of consumption,
then you've got to understand the people.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's so true, and I once again
thank you both. We learn so much, and I think
one of the things I love about everyone every episode
of Market says is generationally it's really easy.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
To look and judge. We did this, you do that.
I don't get it right.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
And what I love is every time we ask the questions,
which more of us should do more often, both as
marketers and as old people, like there's reason, there's deep,
rich stories, and there's there's motivations, and understanding them is
what will make us all better marketers, whether you're trying
to sell.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Boats to boomers or you're.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
Trying to sell water bottles to college students, like, understanding
the motivation is everything, and you guys helped us do
that yet again.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
So thank you funs Amen, Amen, thank you all so
very much, and thank you to everyone for tuning in
for another episode of Market says, tune back in next
time where we get blown away by the brilliance of
the market, particularly the market represented at the Row School
of Business Unisity of Michigan. We love having you with us,
and we love being informed and we love being enlightened.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
So please join us again until Dan.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Peace, Market says, there's a Pubblo Media. iHeart podcast production.
If you're not in the conversation, you're not in the game.
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