April 23, 2026 • 28 mins
In this episode of Market Says?, hosts Gayle Troberman and Marcus Collins sit down with University of Michigan marketing students to find out what Gen Z fans actually think about brand marketing in sports and what it takes to get their attention.
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
I'm Gail Troperman and I'm Marcus Collins.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I've built a career in marketing and led advertising and
marketing strategy for the biggest brand names in tech and media,
from iHeart to Microsoft and more.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I teach marketing at the Raw School of Business, University
of Michigan, and I spent my entire career at the
intersection of culture and commerce. Now we've heard from cmos,
we read all the thing pieces, but we haven't heard
enough from the people that brands are actually trying to reach.
So today Gail and I are joined by marketing students
at the University of Michigan, Go Blue, and I think
(00:48):
they're going to bring something really special to this conversation
that most board rooms are actually missing. Gail, the competition
to be in and around live sports has never been more.
But as the commercial stakes rise, so does the noise.
It's just the nature of things. So what does the
market say about the return on all that spin, and
(01:11):
more importantly, what does it mean for the fan experience?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Are brands enhancing the sports experience or does it feel
a little bit more like brands are starting to invade
our free time, our beloved past times? Are sports viewing time,
and how does it actually feel for the fans.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Gail, you and I. We are joined by two of
my favorites. They're all my favorite I like my kids.
It's like you don't have favorite kids, but you got
some favorites. Two of my favorites we have joining us here.
We have Cammy Escobar and Daniel Streike because is want
to be with us to give us a sense of
what the market says Cammy, Daniel, Welcome to the pod.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Hi Marcus, thanks for having us, hey.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
Professor Collins. Gail, Yeah, thank you for having us on
the podcast. Excited to be here, of course, of course.
All right, so let's just start from the start. What
does it take for brand to break through in your mind,
to stand out when sponsoring major sporting events? And how
can they make their market become synonymous with the games
and the matches that you watch and that you love. Essentially,
(02:20):
what the brand's got to do to break out in
this space that we call sport. You know, it's not
just about logo placement on the field or in the arena,
but you kind of have to institutionalize yourselves within the sport.
So a couple examples, like when I think of the
Super Bowl, I think of the Gatorade shower at the
end of the game. When I think of Red Bull,
(02:40):
I can visualize their daredevil athletes. When I think of Wimbledon,
I think of Rolex. So in order for a brand
to become truly synonymous with the games, you first have
to know your brand proposition and purpose, and then you
can target specific sports and audiences that truly align with it.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
The Gatorade example, Daniel is so right on because they've
done a couple of things amazingly well right. They've committed,
just like the fans do, to show up for every game.
They're always there, right, and then they carved out which
I think so few brands find places and partners to
do that with. They carved out their thing. They became
known for a thing, a moment, and it's just super
(03:21):
fun and random and it feels real, right. It just
feels like, Hey, Gatorade showed up and they celebrated with
you in a big, big, unexpected way that became expected.
Speaker 6 (03:32):
I mean, personally, I come from a Hispanic household, so
for me, when I think of a big sporting event,
it's always the World Cup. And based on that, I
think what's really important is that it's culturally relevant as well.
And I think what Adida does really well with the
World Cup is that not only do you see it everywhere,
it's in the merchandise as well.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Like I remember making my parents buy me like the.
Speaker 6 (03:52):
Original jersey of Ham Rodriguez, and it needs to be
like the Adida's original manufacturer, and we want the soccer ball.
So then it's you're not only like wanting to be
part of this experience as a fan, but you're then
purchasing what they're advertising.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
So I think that's very successful.
Speaker 6 (04:08):
When I think of the World Cup, it's automatically synonymous
with the Didas.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I mean what you were saying there, Ken, you're paying
for something, but you're earning something too.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, so interesting, right, Like you use the Audi Dusk
right example. Would it make as much sense if it
were a sports drink or a bank?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Would you still want that merch I.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Think it has to be strategic.
Speaker 6 (04:33):
I mean recently, for the Winter of Olympics, Ralph Lauren
did a collaboration and outfitted all of the athays and
I think for me, you would never originally think like, oh,
Ralph Lauren, like athletic where, but they did it in
a way that was so strategic where you know, it
was the opening ceremony, so you see them all dressed
up and then you think, oh, I might not be
(04:54):
an Olympian, but I want to look like one, so
I want to buy these pieces and also be stylish
at the same time. I know Skims, Kim Kardashian's brand
did that for the Summer Olympics, and I personally already
wear skims. It kind of gives you a part as
a fan to be part of the experience and say like, oh, like,
I'm wearing the same thing as this, like Olympic gold
medalist is, so I feel like I'm connected more than
(05:17):
just watching them as.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Viewer much how far does that stretch?
Speaker 7 (05:21):
Cami?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
For instance, I think Bounty did an activation at the
Super Bowl, and you go, okay, I mean, I guess
we spill things when we eat, we're watching the gay
but like, how much elasticity does that have.
Speaker 6 (05:34):
I don't know how many people are going to watch
a game and say, oh, I'm going to buy Bounty
over the generic brand. So I think there is a
point where marketers can say, Okay, how relevant is this
and is it going to give us a return rather
than maybe doing something a little bit more relevant where
I mean bounty what like, you could be in so
(05:54):
many different areas and it's not necessarily a sporting event
where I think the money's worth it for them.
Speaker 7 (05:59):
Poor bounty.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Funny, my godson was talking to me recently and he's
a huge sports fan, and he was saying he's got
his favorite jersey you wanted when he was visiting Europe.
He bought this shirt and it's got like a dating
app sponsoring it, and it's like, yeah, I don't know
that I want to rep that brand right.
Speaker 7 (06:17):
Totally.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I mean, so Gail, like you and I we come
from a different era, you know, and we watched games
a certain way. But like Cammy Daniel, you all have
been introduced to live events, live sporting events with a
completely different schema. So considering the world you grew up in,
it's inundated with always on social networking platforms, social media
(06:41):
content coming your way. How do you view sporting events?
Do you watch games? Are you watching it from top
to bottom? Are you jumping in and out? Are you
just looking at the score?
Speaker 5 (06:51):
So, I mean, if it's my favorite teams shout out
Lions Pistons U of M football basketball. I always try
to catch the games in full, especially especially recently with
the Pistons being the best team in the NBA. I
typically don't tune into a random regular season game like
I would never watch let's just say, like the Hornets
are Kings because I have no stake in that game,
(07:13):
you know, it doesn't interest me. But if it's like
the playoffs or something, I will watch those a random
games because there actually is meaning to it, you know,
and you like to be a part of the moment.
You know, when Kevin Durant wins two finals MVPs or
something like that, or Lebron three to one comeback, you
want to be a part of it. You want to
(07:34):
say I sat there and I watched one of the
greatest player of all time made that three one come
back and won the championship.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
So yeah, I think it depends on the sport.
Speaker 6 (07:44):
Like when the World Series was going on and the
Dodgers were playing really well, I watched every single game,
but that was because I would make time for it.
And I think what really has helped me keep in
touch with everything is TikTok and just Instagram and I've
been inundated with all of these different clips, and when
the DOUBLEMBA was, you know, trendate online, I'd never watched
an MBA or a WNBA A game before. And then
(08:07):
I started to tune in and you know, learn the
stories behind the athletes and really be part of it.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And then I started to watch the live game.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
So I think there's kind of like a two prong
part of this, where like they're the sporting events that
I was already passionate about growing up, and now I
have a newfound passion for different events that I will
want to tune in and watchful.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
So if you guys, you know Cammy Daniel, you're you're
sitting on top of a pile, big pile of marketing money, right,
would you go sponsor like a team or a particular
league or would you go sponsor the athlete and try
to tell backstories like where would you put your money?
Speaker 5 (08:46):
I think I would probably lean towards sponsoring the athlete
because I think like, if a certain team isn't doing well,
they're not going to sell tickets, they're not going to
get a lot of viewership. But if you sponsor a
big athlete, no matter where they go, they will have
fans following them.
Speaker 6 (09:03):
To Daniel's point, I think a lot of people are
very loyal to specific athletes. It doesn't matter what team
they're on. I mean that happened to me. I was
a huge Enrique Hernandez fan at the Dodgers, and he
got traded to the Red Sox, went back to the Dodgers,
and I stayed loyal to him, also simultaneously being a
Dodgers fan, because you can't just completely leave the team
(09:24):
that you love.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
But I would follow him and.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
Watch I would watch the Red Sox just because he
was on the team, And I think that also goes
that he himself is a personality.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Same thing with a lot of these younger.
Speaker 6 (09:36):
Athletes that have access to social media and tap into that,
they become more personable to fans, and you like follow
them on TikTok or follow them on Instagram and know
a little bit more about their lives, so you can
make those brand and partnerships feel a little bit more
organic and actually feel like they want to be part
of it rather than Okay, they're getting paid to sponsor
(09:57):
this product, and you can really make it make sense
to the athlete and like their world of fans, so
that you know, you really get those sales in.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
You go with the players because that's where the emotional
connection is.
Speaker 7 (10:09):
Right. Is there really a place for brands in this.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
I think if the partnership makes sense, people will want
to be a part of it. When I was younger,
I was a gymnast and I was absolutely enthralled with
Gabby Douglas. Anything Gabby Douglas did. I needed to do
anything Gabby Douglas promoted. I needed to buy. I think
I had five of her GK leotards. And that partnership
makes sense. There's definitely a component where the sponsorship and
(10:33):
the marketers need to see is this going to make
sense with our audience and their audience?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Gall Teo what this reminds me of some time? I
feel that he is the deep inside. This is what
I want to be like Mike, if I could be
like Mike.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 7 (10:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
The power of Jingles, there is a there's a magic
to audio. It's so funny, except that tends to be
Marcus right from our generation. More interruptive market that's.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Right, Yeah, disruptive marketing. We were accepting on it. That
was just the status quote that was the orthodoxy for us.
It's like we knew you want to see the game
for free.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
You you know the brands supported, and they're going to
be ads, and it's still pretty much the paradigm, or
do you guys see it differently.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
There's bound to be timeouts, commercial breaks, all that stuff.
But I think it's it's really interesting the time we're
living in now, because during during your guys's time, no,
no shade, not.
Speaker 8 (11:30):
Calling you guys.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
You guys take it, We'll own it.
Speaker 8 (11:36):
When it's a timeout or something.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
I don't really watch the ads that much unless it's
a brand that I'm familiar with, but I'll tend to
just go scroll on Instagram or talk with my friends
who I'm watching the game with.
Speaker 8 (11:46):
I don't know if it's different for a CAMI, but.
Speaker 6 (11:48):
No, I completely agree, or I'll just be like looking
at other games that are going on at the same time.
As a sports watcher, you know that you're going to
have timeouts, like what you said, Daniel, and there's going
to be space for these brands to occupy, and it's
kind of just expected. I think something like the super Bowl,
like you can never take away those TV spots.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I think it's part of the experience of watching it.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
And I think a lot of the times there is
some sort of conversation around who's sponsoring these events? Doesn't
make sense and to the point too, like for some
controversy for certain brands, sometimes it works for them. It's
like why are they here? Why are they paying this
money to be a part of this doesn't make sense,
or there's controversy behind that brand to begin with. Like
(12:31):
it gets people talking, and sometimes that's what certain brands.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Need, speaking of controversy and like being relevant. How do
you feel about sports betting?
Speaker 5 (12:41):
So, I'm personally not a fan of the sports betting ads.
It definitely is a natural fake, but I think it's
just become extremely oversaturated at this point, and I think
it takes away from the integrity of the sport and
the viewing experience itself.
Speaker 8 (12:55):
Like I just want to watch the games.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
I don't want to hear about how I can earn
free three hundred dollars in bettle. I like to just
be able to watch the sport and just celebrate the
athletes and not have any outside stakes in it.
Speaker 6 (13:11):
I personally have no interests or any knowledge about sports betting.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
I've never been into it.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
I've had a couple of my guy friends because I know,
I know ball, so my set I know sports.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
So they're like, well, why don't you like bet on
these games?
Speaker 6 (13:27):
And I'm like, I honestly have so many other ways
to spend my money, and I'd rather like, to Daniel's point,
just enjoy the game.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
If we lose, we lose. If we win, great.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
I think when it's getting shoved down people's throats, it's like, Okay,
we get it. People that are sports betting are already
doing it and know what they're doing, so I think
there might need to be a little strategy switch because personally,
to me, it's not worthy.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
To your point, Gail, this is sort of the saturation
of disruptive marketing of yesteryear.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 7 (13:57):
Real talk, Cammy.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Can you recall a moment or a time where you
saw an ad in some sort of frequency, some repetition
where you were like, okink, got to give it a shot. Now, oh,
I really have a taste for McDonald's. Essentially, are the
ads working?
Speaker 6 (14:14):
The brand awareness component is definitely relevant when you're showing
up in these spaces and showing up multiple times I
think it gets to a point where our psychographics are
different than our demographics.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Like I am a.
Speaker 6 (14:26):
Girl and I love sports, but I also love makeup,
and I love fashion, and I love all these different
things in hair products. So you give me an advertisement
for this new hair product that's gonna make my hair
be ten times more of luminous.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
I might then go look at that product. Well, a
person who doesn't have hair look at that.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Maybe not.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Personal, But what I'm saying is like, you.
Speaker 6 (14:53):
Don't know exactly who's really watching these sports. Or I
could just be a daughter of a father who loves
to watch sports and I'm just sitting there watching them
with him and don't tune in until I see this
really innovative ad. So I think you really need to
make those thirty seconds that you have relevant and like
pung in for these like watchers to see and hear
about you, and you might miss the mark or you
(15:16):
might land a new customer you never know. And I
think that's a gamble these marketers take when they get
these advertising spots.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Gail validation for the marketing funnel, look at that.
Speaker 7 (15:26):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Maybe there's there there.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
As we see the w NBA blossoming and budding. Of course,
women's soccer has always been crushing. The women's Olympic hockey
team just one gold, we could say women's sports are
having a moment.
Speaker 7 (15:56):
Does any of this change?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Does brand behavior, brand kinetics, and brand presence start to change?
It all in your mind when it comes to women's sports.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
I've always watched more women's sports than I have male sports.
I watched gymnastics, women's soccer, figure skating, women's skiing. I've
just I think the only male sport I really watch
is baseball and sometimes men's males. So I think for me,
I think for me it's it's more of now that
(16:28):
there's more of irrelevance for the greater community of people
and society watching and tuning into these sports, there's obviously
more benefits that these marketers see, and they see a
larger price tag that's worth it for them. I think
before there's always been the notion of oh, well, no
one watches WMBA, no one watches women's sports. And it's
(16:48):
not no one, it's just a smaller percentage of the
population that they don't feel is enough to make the
price tag of what it's going to be to spend
this money on these advertise They don't see the return
on that being worth it. And I think now that
it's becoming more prevalent and more talked about, they're going
to want to switch over, not maybe not entirely, but
(17:11):
spend more of what they already were on women's sport
because it's becoming a thing.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
And I really hope it stays like that. I hope
it's not just oh, like the women's win gold.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
They've been winning gold, they've been having these moments. It's
just now people are tuning in and making it a
bigger point culturally.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
I mean, I get very passionate because.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
Oh, the men's the men's US hockey team won gold
for the first time in forty six years. The women
have been doing that for forty six years when it
was introduced.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
It's been going on.
Speaker 6 (17:40):
It's just I think it's one of those things where
you know, as someone that's I don't think the advertisement
should change. I just think there should be more of
an investment and more of thought into what is being advertised.
And I just think there should be more money and
in women's sports in general, and if the sponsor shild
willing to do it because they see it's worth it now,
(18:02):
better late than ever.
Speaker 7 (18:03):
Amen, Daniel, what say you? Yeah?
Speaker 8 (18:07):
Yeah, I completely agree.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
I think that like the female athletes work just as
hard as the men and deserve to get the recognition
and the fair compensation. So I'm all for brands sponsoring
them advertisements. But I think there's a little bit of
a difference because when you're investing in things like the
NBA and the NFL, I think it's more guaranteed you
have that scale, you have that audience. But when you
(18:30):
invest in the woman's sports, I think it's about supporting
the long term, the long term growth. I think there
is a lot, there's a big future in it, so
I think it's important to get in now.
Speaker 7 (18:43):
I love that delineation, Dane.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
When you show up before it's a media opportunity, Yeah,
it's signals that you actually care.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I was a Storm Seattle Storm season one season ticket holder.
But like brands that have a point of view or
commit to a team and a league, if you're going
to do it, get in early, carve out a place
you can own, be a fan, and show up with
the fans.
Speaker 7 (19:09):
Ay man, Oh yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
That brings it back to my original point about the
brands that their messages stick are the ones that are institutionalized.
So if you have the opportunity to get in let's
say a w NBA team right now before it's about
to pop off, and the value of that team increases
tenfold and your brand has grown along with it and
stuck with it through thick and thin, then your brand
(19:34):
just becomes associated with that team and you'll be the
top of mind person.
Speaker 7 (19:38):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah, I think the prices I was looking to sup.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I think the prices for like a spot in like
a WNBA game are already up like almost ten x
in the last couple of years.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
So it's it's it's growing fast.
Speaker 7 (19:50):
You know.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
You want to also see Cammy to your point, you
want to see those athletes and those teams raping the
benefits and being able to afford more and get their
due for the entertain value they're bringing us too.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
So let's get into the last segment. This is like
where the rubber meets the road. Three questions for you,
Cammy Daniel brands showing up on jerseys. Do you care
or don't you care? Do you care we see brands
on jerseys, Are you like ooh, I see you maybe
Lene with I don't know what I thought, Maybe Len,
I see you brand on said team. I now feel
(20:24):
much more connected to you. Are you like whatever?
Speaker 7 (20:27):
Are you like? Please stop? This is annoying.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Don't care?
Speaker 8 (20:31):
Yeah, don't care, jail.
Speaker 7 (20:32):
That's a hard way to tell brands.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, yeah, I think the athletes care a lot. They
end up having to do a repro brand in a
very personal way.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Right when you're wearing a brand.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
We well college athletes showing up with brands, considering the
rise in IL. I mean some of your friends, your classmates,
your roommates are probably student athletes.
Speaker 7 (20:54):
Do you care?
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Does it matter when you see brands and athletes showing
up care?
Speaker 5 (21:01):
I think yeah, yeah, I think it's one. If it's
a college athlete, all credit to them. If they're making
their money. Now's the time when NIL is going big
so they can get money. And I think when you
associate a person that you have enjoyed watching for a
while with the brand, then it just creates a positive
(21:23):
correlation and you're going to be more interested in the brand.
Speaker 7 (21:26):
Let's say you can't me.
Speaker 6 (21:27):
I think with college athletes like you have a stronger
connection to them as like you can see yourself like
they have a little bit more relevance to my life
and more relatability.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
So when I see a college athlete.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
Promote something, is the first instinct like, oh, they're just
getting paid, yes, But then at the same time like, okay,
but why did they take that sponsorship? They probably have
a bunch of other ones, And you know, I also
do want to support them to some extent, knowing that
they're not getting paid the big bucks like pro athletes are,
and they are bringing a lot of money to these
schools and aren't necessarily getting any of that money themselves.
(22:00):
So I think NIL is a great thing and a
great opportunity for these athletes to capitalize on their talents
and do it the right way with the brand that
support them.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You know, do an NIL deal the same way you
buy a spot in a playoff game, right, you go, Hey,
who is this human?
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Do they get us? Do we get them?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
And I think marketers spend a lot of time and energy,
and when they do it right, they really do build long,
ongoing relationships and they become I think more and more
you see it's less like here's a check. Read this
line and it's a lot more like who are you,
What are you into? They're a lot more authentic, totally okay, collaborative.
Speaker 7 (22:35):
Last question, last question, here we go. Do you care?
Don't care?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
This might hurt you a little bit, Cammy, ESPN dropped
Sunday Night Baseball. I mean, Cammy care, don't care?
Speaker 4 (22:49):
I care?
Speaker 7 (22:50):
So this is tough for you, Cammy.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I know you love women's sports, but it's also saying
goodbye to the thing that you you've been a part
of your identity. You love baseball. Care don't care?
Speaker 6 (23:04):
I do care, But it gets to the point where
I care that they're dropping baseball and adding this new
segment of women's sports. So now I can enjoy that
a lot easier than it was before. I think for
me it was like, okay, I have to watch I
can only watch figure skating on the Olympics NBC, and
I can watch this on ESPN and watch this on
(23:25):
another So having that all accessible to me on ESPN,
which I already have subscription to because of baseball, if
there's still a way for me to watch baseball, maybe
not ESPN, I will still go and buy another subscription
to watch baseball. I'm going to be loyal to that,
but now it's kind of an additional part of my
sports watching experience where I now it's so much easier
(23:46):
for me to watch these games that were harder for
me to watch before, and gives other people opportunity and
accessibility to watch these games, which I'm happy that they get.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
That is an abundance mindset. They're not saying this isn't
a binary. I'm widening the pie.
Speaker 7 (24:03):
I like that. Daniel, what say you care? Don't care?
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Yeah, so I'll say sorry America, but I don't care
that they're dropping baseball because I don't watch baseball. I've
never never been a baseball guy.
Speaker 7 (24:16):
Says good Rittence Gail. How do you how do you
feel about?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, in case my dad listens, I think I have
to be pro baseball here shout out to CBS that
they're they're going to give a little more time to
women's sports. But I think it's like all things right,
if you're a huge baseball fan, you got to show
up and watch, so I.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
You can't expect Cammy to hold the whole league down,
like come on, like.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, do you have a lot of friends and your
demo who are also MLB fans?
Speaker 7 (24:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
Quite a bit of my friends have been drafted to
the miners in the Major League. So growing up, I,
whether I liked it or not, had to learn about baseball.
My best friend plays baseball. He's at the Marlins now,
so whether or not I wanted to to watch it,
I had chos on every game. And I think now
that I've learned so much about him, been part of
it my whole life, I love it.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I love that again, Wake up, brands, don't stereotype. You've
got young Hispanic female fans of MLB and that's probably
not your go to in your head for who you're
targeting there.
Speaker 7 (25:18):
So you have broken every brief camy, every brief.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah you yeah, yeah, less pharma ads, more shampoo.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
As we wrap up here, there's some things that really
stuck out to me. Said one, you got to get
in early, right. I love that, Daniebody. You put it like,
you got to be institutional. You got to be like
an institution inside the thing such that you carve out
your own space, not only your own physical space, your
own cognitive space. It has to be contextual. The context matters, right,
(25:53):
The people matter, the connection matters. You can't just be
a part of it. You got to contribute to it
in some meaningful way.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I love that commit all right, get in early, commit
to the whether it's the athlete, whether it's the league.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Whether it's a team.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
If you're going to be a good brand partner, you
got to show up every game and show.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Up when they're winning and when they're losing, just like
the fans.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Absolutely absolutely, Daniel Cammy, you made me proud. Thank you
so very much for blessing us with our insight. Honestly,
I mean, I don't know about you, Gail, but actually
feel smarter.
Speaker 7 (26:25):
They think the tables have turned every time we do.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Market says I learned more than a thing or two.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
This is the best.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Thank you guys for making us smarter.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Thank you, Yeah, thank you guys, and thank you Paul
our listeners joining us here.
Speaker 7 (26:38):
I'm so grateful for you.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Look forward to having you next on you with us.
Speaker 9 (26:48):
Markett says it's a bubblo media I hot podcast production.
Speaker 10 (26:58):
All right, Mishawe Tobacco and I'm Dreiani. We're from the
Athena Project and we want to talk about.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Our new podcast called Unbossing.
Speaker 7 (27:05):
On bossing, Yes, Unbossing.
Speaker 11 (27:08):
You may have heard me say on many occasions, true
that the future doesn't fit in the containers of the past. Well,
in this series, we're going to talk about one specific
container that needs to be radically reshaped, and that is
the shape of leadership today.
Speaker 10 (27:23):
Indeed, a shout, it does feel like everything is changing.
New technologies, AI, new expectations, new ways of working.
Speaker 11 (27:30):
Everything true, accepting the bosses of today, and.
Speaker 7 (27:33):
We're going to seriously take them apart.
Speaker 11 (27:35):
And the way we're going to take them apart is
we're going to unboss them.
Speaker 10 (27:38):
Each week, we'll sit down with the most badass bosses
in business and tech and talk about what they needed to.
Speaker 7 (27:43):
Unlearn in order to succeed. Again, that's right true.
Speaker 11 (27:47):
If success is about learning, prolific success is about unlearning
and writing the new rules for new times.
Speaker 10 (27:54):
If you're a leader and you're not understanding why you
need to onboss, then you've got to stop talking and
start listening to bossing.
Speaker 9 (28:01):
Unbossing is a bubble of media iHeart podcast production, and
it's on the iHeart app or wherever you get your podcasts.
If you're not in the conversation, you're not in the game.
I'm Gail Troperman and I'm Marcus Collins.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I've built a career in marketing and led advertising and
marketing strategy for the biggest brand names in tech and media,
from iHeart to Microsoft and more.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I teach marketing at the Raw School of Business, University
of Michigan, and I spent my entire career at the
intersection of culture and commerce. Now we've heard from cmos,
we read all the thing pieces, but we haven't heard
enough from the people that brands are actually trying to reach.
So today Gail and I are joined by marketing students
at the University of Michigan, Go Blue, and I think
(00:48):
they're going to bring something really special to this conversation
that most board rooms are actually missing. Gail, the competition
to be in and around live sports has never been more.
But as the commercial stakes rise, so does the noise.
It's just the nature of things. So what does the
market say about the return on all that spin, and
(01:11):
more importantly, what does it mean for the fan experience?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Are brands enhancing the sports experience or does it feel
a little bit more like brands are starting to invade
our free time, our beloved past times? Are sports viewing time,
and how does it actually feel for the fans.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Gail, you and I. We are joined by two of
my favorites. They're all my favorite I like my kids.
It's like you don't have favorite kids, but you got
some favorites. Two of my favorites we have joining us here.
We have Cammy Escobar and Daniel Streike because is want
to be with us to give us a sense of
what the market says Cammy, Daniel, Welcome to the pod.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Hi Marcus, thanks for having us, hey.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
Professor Collins. Gail, Yeah, thank you for having us on
the podcast. Excited to be here, of course, of course.
All right, so let's just start from the start. What
does it take for brand to break through in your mind,
to stand out when sponsoring major sporting events? And how
can they make their market become synonymous with the games
and the matches that you watch and that you love. Essentially,
(02:20):
what the brand's got to do to break out in
this space that we call sport. You know, it's not
just about logo placement on the field or in the arena,
but you kind of have to institutionalize yourselves within the sport.
So a couple examples, like when I think of the
Super Bowl, I think of the Gatorade shower at the
end of the game. When I think of Red Bull,
(02:40):
I can visualize their daredevil athletes. When I think of Wimbledon,
I think of Rolex. So in order for a brand
to become truly synonymous with the games, you first have
to know your brand proposition and purpose, and then you
can target specific sports and audiences that truly align with it.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
The Gatorade example, Daniel is so right on because they've
done a couple of things amazingly well right. They've committed,
just like the fans do, to show up for every game.
They're always there, right, and then they carved out which
I think so few brands find places and partners to
do that with. They carved out their thing. They became
known for a thing, a moment, and it's just super
(03:21):
fun and random and it feels real, right. It just
feels like, Hey, Gatorade showed up and they celebrated with
you in a big, big, unexpected way that became expected.
Speaker 6 (03:32):
I mean, personally, I come from a Hispanic household, so
for me, when I think of a big sporting event,
it's always the World Cup. And based on that, I
think what's really important is that it's culturally relevant as well.
And I think what Adida does really well with the
World Cup is that not only do you see it everywhere,
it's in the merchandise as well.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Like I remember making my parents buy me like the.
Speaker 6 (03:52):
Original jersey of Ham Rodriguez, and it needs to be
like the Adida's original manufacturer, and we want the soccer ball.
So then it's you're not only like wanting to be
part of this experience as a fan, but you're then
purchasing what they're advertising.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
So I think that's very successful.
Speaker 6 (04:08):
When I think of the World Cup, it's automatically synonymous
with the Didas.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I mean what you were saying there, Ken, you're paying
for something, but you're earning something too.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, so interesting, right, Like you use the Audi Dusk
right example. Would it make as much sense if it
were a sports drink or a bank?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Would you still want that merch I.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Think it has to be strategic.
Speaker 6 (04:33):
I mean recently, for the Winter of Olympics, Ralph Lauren
did a collaboration and outfitted all of the athays and
I think for me, you would never originally think like, oh,
Ralph Lauren, like athletic where, but they did it in
a way that was so strategic where you know, it
was the opening ceremony, so you see them all dressed
up and then you think, oh, I might not be
(04:54):
an Olympian, but I want to look like one, so
I want to buy these pieces and also be stylish
at the same time. I know Skims, Kim Kardashian's brand
did that for the Summer Olympics, and I personally already
wear skims. It kind of gives you a part as
a fan to be part of the experience and say like, oh, like,
I'm wearing the same thing as this, like Olympic gold
medalist is, so I feel like I'm connected more than
(05:17):
just watching them as.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Viewer much how far does that stretch?
Speaker 7 (05:21):
Cami?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
For instance, I think Bounty did an activation at the
Super Bowl, and you go, okay, I mean, I guess
we spill things when we eat, we're watching the gay
but like, how much elasticity does that have.
Speaker 6 (05:34):
I don't know how many people are going to watch
a game and say, oh, I'm going to buy Bounty
over the generic brand. So I think there is a
point where marketers can say, Okay, how relevant is this
and is it going to give us a return rather
than maybe doing something a little bit more relevant where
I mean bounty what like, you could be in so
(05:54):
many different areas and it's not necessarily a sporting event
where I think the money's worth it for them.
Speaker 7 (05:59):
Poor bounty.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Funny, my godson was talking to me recently and he's
a huge sports fan, and he was saying he's got
his favorite jersey you wanted when he was visiting Europe.
He bought this shirt and it's got like a dating
app sponsoring it, and it's like, yeah, I don't know
that I want to rep that brand right.
Speaker 7 (06:17):
Totally.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I mean, so Gail, like you and I we come
from a different era, you know, and we watched games
a certain way. But like Cammy Daniel, you all have
been introduced to live events, live sporting events with a
completely different schema. So considering the world you grew up in,
it's inundated with always on social networking platforms, social media
(06:41):
content coming your way. How do you view sporting events?
Do you watch games? Are you watching it from top
to bottom? Are you jumping in and out? Are you
just looking at the score?
Speaker 5 (06:51):
So, I mean, if it's my favorite teams shout out
Lions Pistons U of M football basketball. I always try
to catch the games in full, especially especially recently with
the Pistons being the best team in the NBA. I
typically don't tune into a random regular season game like
I would never watch let's just say, like the Hornets
are Kings because I have no stake in that game,
(07:13):
you know, it doesn't interest me. But if it's like
the playoffs or something, I will watch those a random
games because there actually is meaning to it, you know,
and you like to be a part of the moment.
You know, when Kevin Durant wins two finals MVPs or
something like that, or Lebron three to one comeback, you
want to be a part of it. You want to
(07:34):
say I sat there and I watched one of the
greatest player of all time made that three one come
back and won the championship.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
So yeah, I think it depends on the sport.
Speaker 6 (07:44):
Like when the World Series was going on and the
Dodgers were playing really well, I watched every single game,
but that was because I would make time for it.
And I think what really has helped me keep in
touch with everything is TikTok and just Instagram and I've
been inundated with all of these different clips, and when
the DOUBLEMBA was, you know, trendate online, I'd never watched
an MBA or a WNBA A game before. And then
(08:07):
I started to tune in and you know, learn the
stories behind the athletes and really be part of it.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And then I started to watch the live game.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
So I think there's kind of like a two prong
part of this, where like they're the sporting events that
I was already passionate about growing up, and now I
have a newfound passion for different events that I will
want to tune in and watchful.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
So if you guys, you know Cammy Daniel, you're you're
sitting on top of a pile, big pile of marketing money, right,
would you go sponsor like a team or a particular
league or would you go sponsor the athlete and try
to tell backstories like where would you put your money?
Speaker 5 (08:46):
I think I would probably lean towards sponsoring the athlete
because I think like, if a certain team isn't doing well,
they're not going to sell tickets, they're not going to
get a lot of viewership. But if you sponsor a
big athlete, no matter where they go, they will have
fans following them.
Speaker 6 (09:03):
To Daniel's point, I think a lot of people are
very loyal to specific athletes. It doesn't matter what team
they're on. I mean that happened to me. I was
a huge Enrique Hernandez fan at the Dodgers, and he
got traded to the Red Sox, went back to the Dodgers,
and I stayed loyal to him, also simultaneously being a
Dodgers fan, because you can't just completely leave the team
(09:24):
that you love.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
But I would follow him and.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
Watch I would watch the Red Sox just because he
was on the team, And I think that also goes
that he himself is a personality.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Same thing with a lot of these younger.
Speaker 6 (09:36):
Athletes that have access to social media and tap into that,
they become more personable to fans, and you like follow
them on TikTok or follow them on Instagram and know
a little bit more about their lives, so you can
make those brand and partnerships feel a little bit more
organic and actually feel like they want to be part
of it rather than Okay, they're getting paid to sponsor
(09:57):
this product, and you can really make it make sense
to the athlete and like their world of fans, so
that you know, you really get those sales in.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
You go with the players because that's where the emotional
connection is.
Speaker 7 (10:09):
Right. Is there really a place for brands in this.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
I think if the partnership makes sense, people will want
to be a part of it. When I was younger,
I was a gymnast and I was absolutely enthralled with
Gabby Douglas. Anything Gabby Douglas did. I needed to do
anything Gabby Douglas promoted. I needed to buy. I think
I had five of her GK leotards. And that partnership
makes sense. There's definitely a component where the sponsorship and
(10:33):
the marketers need to see is this going to make
sense with our audience and their audience?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Gall Teo what this reminds me of some time? I
feel that he is the deep inside. This is what
I want to be like Mike, if I could be
like Mike.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 7 (10:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
The power of Jingles, there is a there's a magic
to audio. It's so funny, except that tends to be
Marcus right from our generation. More interruptive market that's.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Right, Yeah, disruptive marketing. We were accepting on it. That
was just the status quote that was the orthodoxy for us.
It's like we knew you want to see the game
for free.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
You you know the brands supported, and they're going to
be ads, and it's still pretty much the paradigm, or
do you guys see it differently.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
There's bound to be timeouts, commercial breaks, all that stuff.
But I think it's it's really interesting the time we're
living in now, because during during your guys's time, no,
no shade, not.
Speaker 8 (11:30):
Calling you guys.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
You guys take it, We'll own it.
Speaker 8 (11:36):
When it's a timeout or something.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
I don't really watch the ads that much unless it's
a brand that I'm familiar with, but I'll tend to
just go scroll on Instagram or talk with my friends
who I'm watching the game with.
Speaker 8 (11:46):
I don't know if it's different for a CAMI, but.
Speaker 6 (11:48):
No, I completely agree, or I'll just be like looking
at other games that are going on at the same time.
As a sports watcher, you know that you're going to
have timeouts, like what you said, Daniel, and there's going
to be space for these brands to occupy, and it's
kind of just expected. I think something like the super Bowl,
like you can never take away those TV spots.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I think it's part of the experience of watching it.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
And I think a lot of the times there is
some sort of conversation around who's sponsoring these events? Doesn't
make sense and to the point too, like for some
controversy for certain brands, sometimes it works for them. It's
like why are they here? Why are they paying this
money to be a part of this doesn't make sense,
or there's controversy behind that brand to begin with. Like
(12:31):
it gets people talking, and sometimes that's what certain brands.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Need, speaking of controversy and like being relevant. How do
you feel about sports betting?
Speaker 5 (12:41):
So, I'm personally not a fan of the sports betting ads.
It definitely is a natural fake, but I think it's
just become extremely oversaturated at this point, and I think
it takes away from the integrity of the sport and
the viewing experience itself.
Speaker 8 (12:55):
Like I just want to watch the games.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
I don't want to hear about how I can earn
free three hundred dollars in bettle. I like to just
be able to watch the sport and just celebrate the
athletes and not have any outside stakes in it.
Speaker 6 (13:11):
I personally have no interests or any knowledge about sports betting.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
I've never been into it.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
I've had a couple of my guy friends because I know,
I know ball, so my set I know sports.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
So they're like, well, why don't you like bet on
these games?
Speaker 6 (13:27):
And I'm like, I honestly have so many other ways
to spend my money, and I'd rather like, to Daniel's point,
just enjoy the game.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
If we lose, we lose. If we win, great.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
I think when it's getting shoved down people's throats, it's like, Okay,
we get it. People that are sports betting are already
doing it and know what they're doing, so I think
there might need to be a little strategy switch because personally,
to me, it's not worthy.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
To your point, Gail, this is sort of the saturation
of disruptive marketing of yesteryear.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 7 (13:57):
Real talk, Cammy.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Can you recall a moment or a time where you
saw an ad in some sort of frequency, some repetition
where you were like, okink, got to give it a shot. Now, oh,
I really have a taste for McDonald's. Essentially, are the
ads working?
Speaker 6 (14:14):
The brand awareness component is definitely relevant when you're showing
up in these spaces and showing up multiple times I
think it gets to a point where our psychographics are
different than our demographics.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Like I am a.
Speaker 6 (14:26):
Girl and I love sports, but I also love makeup,
and I love fashion, and I love all these different
things in hair products. So you give me an advertisement
for this new hair product that's gonna make my hair
be ten times more of luminous.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
I might then go look at that product. Well, a
person who doesn't have hair look at that.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Maybe not.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Personal, But what I'm saying is like, you.
Speaker 6 (14:53):
Don't know exactly who's really watching these sports. Or I
could just be a daughter of a father who loves
to watch sports and I'm just sitting there watching them
with him and don't tune in until I see this
really innovative ad. So I think you really need to
make those thirty seconds that you have relevant and like
pung in for these like watchers to see and hear
about you, and you might miss the mark or you
(15:16):
might land a new customer you never know. And I
think that's a gamble these marketers take when they get
these advertising spots.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Gail validation for the marketing funnel, look at that.
Speaker 7 (15:26):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Maybe there's there there.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
As we see the w NBA blossoming and budding. Of course,
women's soccer has always been crushing. The women's Olympic hockey
team just one gold, we could say women's sports are
having a moment.
Speaker 7 (15:56):
Does any of this change?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Does brand behavior, brand kinetics, and brand presence start to change?
It all in your mind when it comes to women's sports.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
I've always watched more women's sports than I have male sports.
I watched gymnastics, women's soccer, figure skating, women's skiing. I've
just I think the only male sport I really watch
is baseball and sometimes men's males. So I think for me,
I think for me it's it's more of now that
(16:28):
there's more of irrelevance for the greater community of people
and society watching and tuning into these sports, there's obviously
more benefits that these marketers see, and they see a
larger price tag that's worth it for them. I think
before there's always been the notion of oh, well, no
one watches WMBA, no one watches women's sports. And it's
(16:48):
not no one, it's just a smaller percentage of the
population that they don't feel is enough to make the
price tag of what it's going to be to spend
this money on these advertise They don't see the return
on that being worth it. And I think now that
it's becoming more prevalent and more talked about, they're going
to want to switch over, not maybe not entirely, but
(17:11):
spend more of what they already were on women's sport
because it's becoming a thing.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
And I really hope it stays like that. I hope
it's not just oh, like the women's win gold.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
They've been winning gold, they've been having these moments. It's
just now people are tuning in and making it a
bigger point culturally.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
I mean, I get very passionate because.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
Oh, the men's the men's US hockey team won gold
for the first time in forty six years. The women
have been doing that for forty six years when it
was introduced.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
It's been going on.
Speaker 6 (17:40):
It's just I think it's one of those things where
you know, as someone that's I don't think the advertisement
should change. I just think there should be more of
an investment and more of thought into what is being advertised.
And I just think there should be more money and
in women's sports in general, and if the sponsor shild
willing to do it because they see it's worth it now,
(18:02):
better late than ever.
Speaker 7 (18:03):
Amen, Daniel, what say you? Yeah?
Speaker 8 (18:07):
Yeah, I completely agree.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
I think that like the female athletes work just as
hard as the men and deserve to get the recognition
and the fair compensation. So I'm all for brands sponsoring
them advertisements. But I think there's a little bit of
a difference because when you're investing in things like the
NBA and the NFL, I think it's more guaranteed you
have that scale, you have that audience. But when you
(18:30):
invest in the woman's sports, I think it's about supporting
the long term, the long term growth. I think there
is a lot, there's a big future in it, so
I think it's important to get in now.
Speaker 7 (18:43):
I love that delineation, Dane.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
When you show up before it's a media opportunity, Yeah,
it's signals that you actually care.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I was a Storm Seattle Storm season one season ticket holder.
But like brands that have a point of view or
commit to a team and a league, if you're going
to do it, get in early, carve out a place
you can own, be a fan, and show up with
the fans.
Speaker 7 (19:09):
Ay man, Oh yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
That brings it back to my original point about the
brands that their messages stick are the ones that are institutionalized.
So if you have the opportunity to get in let's
say a w NBA team right now before it's about
to pop off, and the value of that team increases
tenfold and your brand has grown along with it and
stuck with it through thick and thin, then your brand
(19:34):
just becomes associated with that team and you'll be the
top of mind person.
Speaker 7 (19:38):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah, I think the prices I was looking to sup.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I think the prices for like a spot in like
a WNBA game are already up like almost ten x
in the last couple of years.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
So it's it's it's growing fast.
Speaker 7 (19:50):
You know.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
You want to also see Cammy to your point, you
want to see those athletes and those teams raping the
benefits and being able to afford more and get their
due for the entertain value they're bringing us too.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
So let's get into the last segment. This is like
where the rubber meets the road. Three questions for you,
Cammy Daniel brands showing up on jerseys. Do you care
or don't you care? Do you care we see brands
on jerseys, Are you like ooh, I see you maybe
Lene with I don't know what I thought, Maybe Len,
I see you brand on said team. I now feel
(20:24):
much more connected to you. Are you like whatever?
Speaker 7 (20:27):
Are you like? Please stop? This is annoying.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Don't care?
Speaker 8 (20:31):
Yeah, don't care, jail.
Speaker 7 (20:32):
That's a hard way to tell brands.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, yeah, I think the athletes care a lot. They
end up having to do a repro brand in a
very personal way.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Right when you're wearing a brand.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
We well college athletes showing up with brands, considering the
rise in IL. I mean some of your friends, your classmates,
your roommates are probably student athletes.
Speaker 7 (20:54):
Do you care?
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Does it matter when you see brands and athletes showing
up care?
Speaker 5 (21:01):
I think yeah, yeah, I think it's one. If it's
a college athlete, all credit to them. If they're making
their money. Now's the time when NIL is going big
so they can get money. And I think when you
associate a person that you have enjoyed watching for a
while with the brand, then it just creates a positive
(21:23):
correlation and you're going to be more interested in the brand.
Speaker 7 (21:26):
Let's say you can't me.
Speaker 6 (21:27):
I think with college athletes like you have a stronger
connection to them as like you can see yourself like
they have a little bit more relevance to my life
and more relatability.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
So when I see a college athlete.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
Promote something, is the first instinct like, oh, they're just
getting paid, yes, But then at the same time like, okay,
but why did they take that sponsorship? They probably have
a bunch of other ones, And you know, I also
do want to support them to some extent, knowing that
they're not getting paid the big bucks like pro athletes are,
and they are bringing a lot of money to these
schools and aren't necessarily getting any of that money themselves.
(22:00):
So I think NIL is a great thing and a
great opportunity for these athletes to capitalize on their talents
and do it the right way with the brand that
support them.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You know, do an NIL deal the same way you
buy a spot in a playoff game, right, you go, Hey,
who is this human?
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Do they get us? Do we get them?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
And I think marketers spend a lot of time and energy,
and when they do it right, they really do build long,
ongoing relationships and they become I think more and more
you see it's less like here's a check. Read this
line and it's a lot more like who are you,
What are you into? They're a lot more authentic, totally okay, collaborative.
Speaker 7 (22:35):
Last question, last question, here we go. Do you care?
Don't care?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
This might hurt you a little bit, Cammy, ESPN dropped
Sunday Night Baseball. I mean, Cammy care, don't care?
Speaker 4 (22:49):
I care?
Speaker 7 (22:50):
So this is tough for you, Cammy.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I know you love women's sports, but it's also saying
goodbye to the thing that you you've been a part
of your identity. You love baseball. Care don't care?
Speaker 6 (23:04):
I do care, But it gets to the point where
I care that they're dropping baseball and adding this new
segment of women's sports. So now I can enjoy that
a lot easier than it was before. I think for
me it was like, okay, I have to watch I
can only watch figure skating on the Olympics NBC, and
I can watch this on ESPN and watch this on
(23:25):
another So having that all accessible to me on ESPN,
which I already have subscription to because of baseball, if
there's still a way for me to watch baseball, maybe
not ESPN, I will still go and buy another subscription
to watch baseball. I'm going to be loyal to that,
but now it's kind of an additional part of my
sports watching experience where I now it's so much easier
(23:46):
for me to watch these games that were harder for
me to watch before, and gives other people opportunity and
accessibility to watch these games, which I'm happy that they get.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
That is an abundance mindset. They're not saying this isn't
a binary. I'm widening the pie.
Speaker 7 (24:03):
I like that. Daniel, what say you care? Don't care?
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Yeah, so I'll say sorry America, but I don't care
that they're dropping baseball because I don't watch baseball. I've
never never been a baseball guy.
Speaker 7 (24:16):
Says good Rittence Gail. How do you how do you
feel about?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, in case my dad listens, I think I have
to be pro baseball here shout out to CBS that
they're they're going to give a little more time to
women's sports. But I think it's like all things right,
if you're a huge baseball fan, you got to show
up and watch, so I.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
You can't expect Cammy to hold the whole league down,
like come on, like.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, do you have a lot of friends and your
demo who are also MLB fans?
Speaker 7 (24:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
Quite a bit of my friends have been drafted to
the miners in the Major League. So growing up, I,
whether I liked it or not, had to learn about baseball.
My best friend plays baseball. He's at the Marlins now,
so whether or not I wanted to to watch it,
I had chos on every game. And I think now
that I've learned so much about him, been part of
it my whole life, I love it.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I love that again, Wake up, brands, don't stereotype. You've
got young Hispanic female fans of MLB and that's probably
not your go to in your head for who you're
targeting there.
Speaker 7 (25:18):
So you have broken every brief camy, every brief.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah you yeah, yeah, less pharma ads, more shampoo.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
As we wrap up here, there's some things that really
stuck out to me. Said one, you got to get
in early, right. I love that, Daniebody. You put it like,
you got to be institutional. You got to be like
an institution inside the thing such that you carve out
your own space, not only your own physical space, your
own cognitive space. It has to be contextual. The context matters, right,
(25:53):
The people matter, the connection matters. You can't just be
a part of it. You got to contribute to it
in some meaningful way.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I love that commit all right, get in early, commit
to the whether it's the athlete, whether it's the league.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Whether it's a team.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
If you're going to be a good brand partner, you
got to show up every game and show.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Up when they're winning and when they're losing, just like
the fans.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Absolutely absolutely, Daniel Cammy, you made me proud. Thank you
so very much for blessing us with our insight. Honestly,
I mean, I don't know about you, Gail, but actually
feel smarter.
Speaker 7 (26:25):
They think the tables have turned every time we do.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Market says I learned more than a thing or two.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
This is the best.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Thank you guys for making us smarter.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Thank you, Yeah, thank you guys, and thank you Paul
our listeners joining us here.
Speaker 7 (26:38):
I'm so grateful for you.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Look forward to having you next on you with us.
Speaker 9 (26:48):
Markett says it's a bubblo media I hot podcast production.
Speaker 10 (26:58):
All right, Mishawe Tobacco and I'm Dreiani. We're from the
Athena Project and we want to talk about.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Our new podcast called Unbossing.
Speaker 7 (27:05):
On bossing, Yes, Unbossing.
Speaker 11 (27:08):
You may have heard me say on many occasions, true
that the future doesn't fit in the containers of the past. Well,
in this series, we're going to talk about one specific
container that needs to be radically reshaped, and that is
the shape of leadership today.
Speaker 10 (27:23):
Indeed, a shout, it does feel like everything is changing.
New technologies, AI, new expectations, new ways of working.
Speaker 11 (27:30):
Everything true, accepting the bosses of today, and.
Speaker 7 (27:33):
We're going to seriously take them apart.
Speaker 11 (27:35):
And the way we're going to take them apart is
we're going to unboss them.
Speaker 10 (27:38):
Each week, we'll sit down with the most badass bosses
in business and tech and talk about what they needed to.
Speaker 7 (27:43):
Unlearn in order to succeed. Again, that's right true.
Speaker 11 (27:47):
If success is about learning, prolific success is about unlearning
and writing the new rules for new times.
Speaker 10 (27:54):
If you're a leader and you're not understanding why you
need to onboss, then you've got to stop talking and
start listening to bossing.
Speaker 9 (28:01):
Unbossing is a bubble of media iHeart podcast production, and
it's on the iHeart app or wherever you get your podcasts.
If you're not in the conversation, you're not in the game.
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