April 23, 2026 • 39 mins
Working across 190 countries to deliver research-driven early learning, Sesame Workshop is the non-profit behind the longest running children’s television show and so much more. SherrieWestin is at its helm as President and CEO. Sherrie sits down with Bob to talk about the power of mission-driven work and how to stay relevant for generations of kids to come. From addressing social and environmental issues, to keeping pace with fast-moving technology and adapting to funding cuts, Sherrie leads with self-awareness and empathy while always keeping her eye on research and impact. Plus, Sherrie shares highlights from her time at ABC News and The White House and talks about her new book, “What I Learned from Mom: 27 Celebrated Individuals on How Mother's Wisdom Shaped Their Lives.”
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Clear focus on the mission, not losing sight of the
most important audience and why we're there and listen. I
don't even think Sesame Street can be bulletproof. We have dings,
we have missteps. There's going to be certain factions that
may not agree with Sesame or our content. But as
long as we're true to our purpose, then I think
(00:30):
people trust that the brand is authentic. They trust the
brand value. Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I'm Bob Pittman, and welcome to this episode of Math
and Magic, Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing. Today, we're
going to explore a new frontier kids TV and muppets.
Our guest today is Sherry Weston, the president and CEO
of Sesame Workshop, the nonprofit behind Sesame Street that uses
the power of educational media to help children get the smarter, young,
(01:00):
and kinder. Cherry grew up in Roanoke, Virginia, in the
middle of an apple orchard. She stayed in Virginia for
college at UVA. Before Sesame Street, Cherry had experience in
pr and in the government in the late eighties and
nineties and traditional media at ABC and US News and
World Report, but most of her working life has been
in service to the Muppets. Sherry is also a fun,
(01:21):
interesting person and longtime friends Cherry welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I love the fun and interesting part you are.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Craise knows that now with all of our friends describe
you that way, So you're very lucky. Before we get
on to the meaty stuff. I want to do you
in sixty seconds good. I love that cats are dogs
dogs early riser in night Out, night ol Country or
City Country DC or New York, New York. Protein or
carbs ugh protein sweet or savory sweet, introvert or extrovert,
(01:51):
borderline but extrovert. Comedy or drama comedy. We need comedy, monster,
foody or almost world, Almost World, Oscar the Grouch or
the count Oscar. Commercial airline or air Force one?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well air Force one was fun?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Cook or eat out order in who call for text
text about to get hard? Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Favorite celebrity ever on Sesame Street, Ray Charles favorite all
time movie.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
It's a wonderful life.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Smartest person you know.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
My husband David so annoying.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
That's pretty good. Childhood hero it would have to be
my dad. What did you want to do when you
grew up teacher. Best piece of advice you ever got to.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Be self aware, to know your strengths and weaknesses.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Favorite place to visit Hoositano and your secret talent gifts
some cards. Okay, that's good, let's jump in. Okay, I know.
Sesame Street is the longest running kids show, probably by
a mile. It might even be the or one of
the longest running TV shows. What's at the heart of
that enduring popularity?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Well, I think it really does speak to the prescience
of the creators and founders of Sesame Street, because if
you think of the origins, it was the late sixties,
the War on Poverty, civil rights movement, and there was
research that showed that children in poverty were showing up
at school without the skills they needed to be ready
to learn. So Sesame started as a huge experiment. Could
(03:18):
you use television the medium of the day to teach
was a radical idea of the time, but more importantly,
to reach children who didn't have access to quality early education.
And so I think the prescience of that, the fact
that the need for that today is as great as
nineteen sixty nine. There are so many children who still
(03:39):
need access to quality early education. The opportunity to reach
them through media has never been greater. It's not just television,
it's every possible form. And I think the fact that
Sesame has always innovated and tried to meet the needs
of children today, and of course are engaging muppets, is
what's kept us relevant.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Let's dig into that just a little bit. How do
you keep it relevant for these successive generations of kids.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Well, another point I would make that was sort of
an AHA moment for me when I understood it was
Joan Kanz Cooney who was the creator of Sesame Street.
Not only does she have the foresight to focus on preschool,
the early years when we can have the greatest impact,
but she just had a hunch that the learning would
be deeper if an adult were watching with a child.
(04:28):
So now think of Sesame Street. The reason there were
celebrities still are musicians, humor parodies, and muppets was all
because she wanted it to be appealing to adults as
well as children. So that's why I think it's still
what it is fifty six years later. It appeals to
all ages. And again, the fact that we're always addressing
(04:52):
different issues throughout the decades, does keep us very relevant.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And how do you spot what those issues are that
are relevant.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Well, there's not a specific formula. I mean, if you
think of our history over the decades, childhood obesity becomes
an issue. So we create healthy habits for life, and
Cookie Monster teaches you he can't give up cookies, but
he teaches you that cookies are sometimes food, and fruit
and veggies are in anytime food. When we saw that
the number of children being diagnosed with autism was just
(05:23):
growing significantly. I think the number today is one in
thirty one, we created our Sea Amazing and All Children
Initiative to help families with children with autism make every
day moments easier. It even led to the first autistic
Muppet ever, Julia, so children with autism can identify with
her feel less alone, but also so that we can
(05:45):
break down that stigma and help neurotypical children have a
greater understanding of autism. So I could go on and on,
parental addiction, childhood displacement. It could be through just basic
understanding what's happening in the world. We also partner with
organizations on the ground and often they'll be the ones
to tell us. Look the opioid crisis. We're dealing with
(06:08):
so many young children where a parent is struggling with addiction,
and yet they're no materials for young children. So often
it's through our partnership other experts that will lead us
to the conclusion that we need to step up.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
You have dealt with, either at Sesame Street or in
other places, government cutbacks off and on for decades. How
do you navigate the uncertainty when that comes and goes.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
The main thing that we've always done is just try
to be true to our mission for parents and others
to understand why Sesame Street is so valuable. I mean,
we're big partners with PBS, and we believe deeply in
the importance of public broadcasting so that all children can
have access to quality programming like Sesame Street. But I
(06:56):
would also say that it's really important for us to
remain nonpartisan. We're a charitable organization of five oh one
c three. We are not a political advocacy organization, and
so as long as we're true to our mission of
what's best for preschoolers, we've been able to navigate those storms. Now.
Funding absolutely, it's not just government funding, but there have
(07:19):
been real challenges over the years and very recently, the
media landscape has changed so much that was a very
significant economic challenge for SAAME. And you also saw the
administration eliminate USAID funding that had a direct impact on
our international work, eliminate corporation for public broadcasting. Fortunately, federal
(07:42):
funding is less than four percent of our overall budget,
but it is a place like Bangladesh, it's one hundred
percent of that funding.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
So let's talk about success. Hey, you know you're a
business person, got long history with it and sort of
business terms. How do you measure and define success for
Sesame Street? What are you looking at to say yes,
it's working.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I think one of the most rewarding things about working
at Sesame Workshop, like any nonprofit, is our success is
not on return to the shareholder. It is not on economics.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Lucky you, lucky me.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yes, it's the one the impact we're having for young
children now, it's incredibly important that we can raise the
funds to support that work through a combination of our
earned revenue. We do have the advantage of licensing our IP,
but it's philanthropic support in order to have a real
impact on helping young children give them the skills they need.
(08:37):
To not just succeed in school, but to succeed in life.
And research is a huge part of our DNA. Anything
we set out to do, we start with research. We
also test along the way so we can iterate, and
then most importantly, we're measuring those outcomes because if we
can't prove the impact, then how do we sustain the work?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
So this podcast focuses on more marketing. You've got one
of the best known and loved brands. How do you
manage that brand? I mean you've got to sort of say, Okay,
I'm the steward of this great brand. How do you
build those boxes around it? And how do you think
about just the management and how do you protect that brand?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, the brand is the most important thing we have,
right It's what people believe in, it's what they trust,
and it's incredibly valuable. Sessme is like the number one
trusted preschool brand. We take that very seriously. And you
know this, in any brand, there are I like to
think they're deposits and withdrawals. There's sometimes you're deciding whether
(09:39):
to do something and you realize it's going to be
a little bit of a withdrawal, but it's worth it.
Because here are the other trade offs, but there just
always have to be more deposits. It's pretty easy to
know that the north star has to be the trust
of parents and the love of children. That if we
(09:59):
stay focused on what's most important for a three year old,
then I feel like we're true to our brand. And
that's always sort of lens with which we have to
look at various decisions.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Jim Henson, creator of the Muppets and a fellow Mississippian,
was an absolute genius and it's sort of an interesting
case study here is how did the Muppets survive and
even thrive after the tragic loss of their creator.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Well, I was not here when that happened, but I
certainly hear so many stories. And also it was just
such a shock to everyone because he wasn't ill for
a long time, so it was not expected. But I
think it's because Jim was such a tutor and mentor
and so beloved that every one of those muppeteers that
worked with him, that were trained by him, I mean,
(10:49):
so many of them are still on Sesame Street and
they believe wholeheartedly in the mission of Sesame their art.
I mean, these are the most talented individuals, and so
it was never a question that they wouldn't carry on
continue to sort of bring the magic to life.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
There's a lesson in this for brands about bulletproofing franchises.
So if we take it out of Sesame and let's
take it to the rest of the world, what lesson
do you think you learn from that founder creator?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I think it's I think it's clear focus on the mission,
not losing sight of the most important audience and why
we're there. And listen, I don't even think Sesame Street
can be bulletproof. We have dings, we have missteps. There's
going to be certain factions that may not agree with
Sesame or our content. But as long as we're true
(11:47):
to our purpose, then I think people trust that the
brand is authentic. They trust the brand value.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
You've alluded to it here, so I want to pull
it in. Sesame Workshop is a nonprofit. You are clearly
in service to others with a well defined and important mission.
You were sort of talking generally about culture. How do
you think about the corporate culture, your company culture, the
operating culture there, and how that helps you deliver on
(12:16):
your mission.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Well, one of the things about the culture that I
think is such a tremendous asset is we're a very unusual,
complicated organization. People assume you're just Sesame Street the show.
They often don't have any idea the depth and breadth
of our work. Whether you're working in the Middle East
with serving displaced children, whether you're doing partnership deals with
(12:39):
licensed partners that are helping to bring in revenue, whether
you're dealing with the media distribution partners, whether you're dealing
with really difficult subjects that we tackle, and community organizations
much less policy, government, all of the things that factor in.
But having said that, regards wardless of whether someone works
(13:01):
in the licensing side, the themed entertainment side, the direct
services program, social impact, philanthropic development, they all believe in
the mission of Sessame, And honestly, I think people there
are so proud to do what we do. I mean,
even though there are ups and downs and challenges, there
is a real sense of mission and that is a
(13:25):
tremendous advantage in terms of leading an organization. Our culture
needs to reflect our values and so if our mission
is to help children everywhere grow smarter, stronger, and kinder,
that's important too. We'll often say, like, you know, in
our meetings and our business, we need to treat each
(13:46):
other in the same way that we're trying to impart
those same values we're children. So I do think it's
a special place to work.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
And how would you contrast that or compare it to
when you were in the for profit media in terms
of how they do culture and how you do culture.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Well, it's such an interesting question. I will tell you
an interesting culture observation. You know, I had been at
ABC News. I left to go to the White House.
This is the nineties. I came back to ABC Network
when Bob Eiger became president, and it had been Cap
Cities ABC. Both when I was at News and when
I came back, Tom Murphy and Dan Burke were CEO
(14:29):
and COO whom I just admired and loved and adored.
I mean, they were just incredible leaders. It was a
Fortune one hundred company that felt like it was run
like a family business. And I will never forget that.
Tom always said, you can make mistakes as long as
they're honest and you learn from them. I was an
executive vice president. You felt empowered, You felt that you
(14:51):
had the ability to lead, to take risks, which we
all know is so important in an organization that you
know you can take the risk. So I was also
there when Disney bought us, and I've never seen a
corporate culture change so quickly.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Really.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, Now this is not a reflection on Disney today.
This is back right, but it just with all due
respect to Michael Eisner, it went from immediately feeling empowered
and that you could take risks to being very cautious
and concerned. Like in terms of that corporate culture, it
was a very interesting thing to live through.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Interesting and I think your point is interesting how fast
it can change new owner's new approach. Talk a little
bit about how you manage. I love Peter Truck or
Stefanisher management. I think it was getting results through other
people that was pretty simple. How do you do that?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
You ask what the best advice I've ever been given?
And I said, it's to be self aware as a leader,
And by that I mean that you understand those strengths
and weaknesses so that you surround yourself with people that
are much stronger than you are. You know what areas
you should be delegating, and so I think it's so
(16:04):
important to delegate to surround myself with people that have
very different skill sets and strengths, where I can say,
you know better than I do on this, and I'm
going to defer to you, or at least I'm getting
the benefit of very different perspectives even if I have
to ultimately make that decision. And I have a wonderful team.
(16:24):
I really admire and respect each of the people that
I work with on the leadership team. I may not
always agree with them, but I do know the integrity
of each of those people, and I know that each
of us are trying to do the right thing always,
even when we may see it very differently. So I
think that's just the most important thing in leadership is
(16:46):
who you surround yourself with.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Talking a little bit more about management, how do you
manage around risk taking? You've brought it up on the
Capsities versus Disney. How do you think about that and
how do you manage to make sure you can get
their proper amount of risk taking?
Speaker 2 (17:02):
You know, it is the thing that you wake up
at two am thinking about, And some of our risk
have been larger than others. I think you have to
understand that. Like I've only been in the role of
CEO for less than two years. I know I'm going
to make mistakes. I hope I'm not going to make
the same ones twice. And I feel that way about risk.
(17:24):
I think there are sometimes when there is no good decision,
like either way you can argue both sides. I think
then you have to make a decision and do your
best to make it right. It may not be the
perfect decision. There isn't always a right decision, but again,
you make the decision and then do everything to make
it right. And I do think that it's one of
(17:45):
the things that's so important in leading others. And I'm
not sure we do this as well as we should,
but it's something we're very cognizant of. Imparting is to
help others feel that they can take risks, to not
be seconding if something goes wrong, and if they're wrong,
and we learn from them. It's sort of like Tom Murphy.
As long as they were honest, as long as you
(18:06):
learn from them. And that's a value.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
You were talking about spending time in the George H. W.
Bush administration. You were at ABC before that and you
left to go to government. Why do you want to
be in government?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I didn't want to be in government. I loved working
at ABC News. Ruin in Ourledge recruited me to ABC.
It was sort of the glory days, you know, the
Magnificent Seven. Is that what it was? The anchors we had.
But when the President of the United States calls and
asks you if you will take on a position in
the White House, I mean, I do think I had
(18:41):
a sense of public service, and that is hard to say. No,
I mean, believe it or not. I was one of
two highest ranking women in the White House and I
sort of felt like, how can I not?
Speaker 3 (18:54):
And you got to go on Air Force one, Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Come on, I mean, listen, the White House is just
such a challenging place to be. But I will say
that there was a time and even on Air Force one,
yes that is pretty cool. But you'd be going to
an event, you would be worried about the event. You
would be responsible for what was going to happen. It
was only flying home that you would go and you
had a beer and you would be thinking, Okay, this
(19:18):
is pretty cool. And I will never forget one time.
I can't remember where we were going, but they came
over to say, by the way, Sherry, we're going to
be flying over Roanoke, Virginia. Call your parents and I did.
We called it and said, Mom, look up, you're going
to see Air Force one.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Oh that's great. I'm on, that's great. What a treat
sessme Workshop. Do you think a nonprofit like that, because
you've been in both, it's more like the government or
for profit business.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Oh no, it's more like a for profit business. But
you have all of the challenges of a business in
order to fund the work. And keep in mind, we're
not like Red Cross or traditional nonprofit when it's only philanthropic.
We have to be able to compete in the media business,
in the licensing. It's fortunate that we have a diversified
(20:07):
revenue stream, but it's also more challenging because it makes
it harder for people to understand that you're actually a
nonprofit and need to support. But I don't see us
as like government. I see us like corporate, but with
a cause and a heart.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
So you mentioned you've been CEO for about two years.
You went through a number of jobs at Sesame Workshop
before becoming CEO.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Can't hold down the job exactly when.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
You were started as a CMO, worked a lot of
different jobs wound up as the CEO. For people who've
not been a CEO, what do you think they don't
know about being the CEO versus any of those.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Other jobs, that it's much lonelier. I never understood that
when people said the job of CEOs can be lonely,
but it is because you can't share and talk with
everybody the way you might have before. And even you
are closest associates, you still are responsible. And there's certain
things that I'm someone who always wants to fix things,
(21:08):
and if you have certain issues, I want to just
help get them fixed. And then to realize there's certain
times I need you to go to HR, not me,
or I need to not be involved in this particular
part of this has been a learning experience for me too,
where I realized, no, I should have just delegated that
and not stepped in. It's not where I need to
(21:29):
be or where I should be. And I do find
that when I talk to other CEOs, it is so
helpful because they understand in a way that you don't
if you haven't. Sort of like being a parent, right like,
it doesn't mean everybody has to be a parent, but no,
one can really understand until they've been a parent.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
You were CMO and your CEO. A lot of people
listening are cmos.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I love being a CMOS really important.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
By the way, I think I'm the worst job in
our company, is anybody in marketing because my heart I'm
the CMO hiding out as a CEO.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I loved the job of CMO and we have a
fantastic team in our marketing and comms and I have
a probably more appreciation for that area than some do
because I don't see it as something where once you
have something done, you take it to be marketed. I mean,
a great marketing and comms team is so steeped in
the strategy and what you're trying to accomplish. It's you know,
(22:27):
math and magic. We rely on so much data. We're
a creative organization, but it's both the art and the science.
As I said, research is a huge part of what
we do. This is a lovely creative thing to do,
but is it having the right impact? Is it reaching
the right audience? Measuring that to make sure you're really
being not just creative, but that you're having the outcome needed,
(22:51):
Especially when you have limited resources, that forces you to
be even more strategic and hopefully more creative. But I
think that the difference is at CMO. If you're a
true marketer, you had to focus on what you love.
If you're CEO, you have to focus on all those
other things too.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
That's the big difference.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
It is more math and magic. Right after this quick break,
welcome back to math and magic. Let's hear more from
my conversation with Sherry Weston. I want to get some
context on you by going back in time. You were
(23:31):
in the last wave of baby boomers. I've read a
number of places. You grew up in the middle of
an apple orchard, rowing up Virginia. Can you paint the
picture of that place and time and sort of what
it was where you began?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
You know how you don't. You don't know that when
you're growing up that that isn't what the world is like.
That is your world, right, And when I look back,
I do realize how incredibly fortunate it was, because it
reminds me of that Madman Eras.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Like.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
My mother was a stay at home mom. She was young.
She had me a year after my mother and father
got married. I think she was twenty three. And we
did grow up in an apple orchard. I mean there
were other homes too, it just happened to be a
big apple orchard. We'd had thirteen apple trees in our yard.
I had to pick up apples all the time. I mean,
I just have such fond memories of my childhood. I
(24:23):
have two younger brothers. We lived at the end of
a sort of dead end, so we could leave the
house and not have to you know, Mom would just
call it later and to come back home because and
I do think our parents just loved being parents. So
we were in the top of the apple trees. My
mom was right up there with us. I realized we
(24:45):
were like her playmates because she was so young. I
can't imagine at twenty three having I mean I didn't
have children until much later. But it was a great
place to grow up.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
What influence did your parents have on you? Did you
sort of look at yourself today and say that came
from my parents? What is it?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well, my father was very sort of large and in charge,
had a wonderful sense of humor. My parents entertained a lot.
He was in sales and so he was just a
great businessman. But you know, he enjoyed people. They were
a great couple. I just remember always having people over
and we would run around at our pajamas. My little
brother would have the pajamas with your feet in it,
(25:23):
but we would get to stay up for the party.
And you know, I'm probably one of the only people
that likes the smell of cigarettes, even though I've never smoked,
because the only time you ever smelled cigarettes was the party.
In those days, my parents didn't smoke, but they put
out ashrays if you're having a party, right. So they
were just really fun and very caring. Like my dad,
(25:45):
just looked out for people in a way that I
appreciated more and more as I got older. My mom
was also very creative, so she let me start creative
class in our basement when I was in fourth grade
and all the younger kids would come over. We started
the neighborhood Gazette, where I would write little articles on
(26:06):
different pets around the neighborhood and stick them in people's mailboxes.
You know, she was always coming up with fun ideas
for events or activities. Everyone was always at our house
because my mom was everybody's favorite. Mom.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Were you a good student?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I was a good student.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Were you an athlete?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
I played tennis, Well that's pretty good.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Well behaved or hell raiser.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
I was well behaved. It's not a hell racer. Until
I got a little older.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
When did you realize Rowano was not your future?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
You know? Again, I had such a happy childhood that
it's not like I was trying to get out. But
I didn't want to go to college in the same state.
And yet I ended up going to University of Virginia,
And I'm actually so grateful I did. I think. I
just thought I wanted to go far away, and I
didn't really have the sophistication to understand how much better
one school was than another. So by luck, I ended
(27:02):
up choosing UVA. I realized how much more I was
exposed to a UVA because people were from so many
different places. Never occurred to me to go back to Roanoke,
you know. And I went to Washington, d C. After college,
and then to New York again. It was a great
place to grow up. My mother's still there, but I
(27:22):
was always sort of elsewhere afterwards.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Ever long for the small town life.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I really love the life that I have, so I'm
not yearning for anything different. Listen, my children. We've raised
them in Bronxville, right outside the city, so you still
have the treehouse David built or the yard, and it's
not a bad commute. So I have all the benefits
of the city, but I don't feel like I'm missing
(27:48):
out you.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
In addition to all this other stuff you're doing, you're
also an author. You got a book out what I
learned from Mom. Give us the headline about it.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I can't take credit for this idea. One of the
former CEOs, who you know, Jeff Done, when he stepped down,
he said to me, I've always had a passion project.
I want to write a book on what I learned
from Mom, because he is convinced his mom had lived
in a different area, she would have been a CEO.
And he said, will you help me? And I was like, Jeff,
you know my job, I don't have two minutes in
(28:21):
a day. How would I possibly be able to help
you with this? And he goes, no, no, no, you know
you could help me think of people to include. We'll
do interviews together. So anyway, I said, okay, on one condition,
I could only rationalize this if it benefits says to
me in some way, and he generously agreed that we
would donate all of our author proceeds to SESAME workshops,
(28:41):
so that way I could rationalize that I would take
time and we have a really interesting, eclectic group. There
are twenty seven stories from individuals talking about the impact
their mother had on their success. These are all very successful,
interesting people from ken Burn's two, Cindy Crawford from Skip
(29:01):
Gates to Katie Kurk, people from different walks of life.
Diane von Furstenberg, I love clarsa Ward from CNN has
a fantastic story. Some are more about how challenging it was,
but what they learned from their mother. Some are what
you would expect that their mother believed so much in them.
But I actually find the stories so different. They're quite charming,
and it forced me to have to write a small
(29:24):
chapter on my mother. And I do think I've always
thought of myself as sort of closer to my dad
and Daddy's girl growing up. But just listening, I had
done a lot of the interviews with Jeff before he
said you're going to have to write a chapter for you,
and he said, let me interview you about your mom.
And I have to say I really came away with
(29:46):
this appreciation. That actually got a lot more from my
mom than I might think, and that was a nice process.
I read the book to her last weekend when I
went to see her in Virginia, and I'm gla that
I did this.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
So here's what everybody listening. If you buy the book,
remember you're making a donation to Sesame Work.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yes, yes, and you can. You can go on any website, Amazon, whatever.
The book just came out, so you can order it.
I think it would make a great Mother's Day present.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Here we go, here's the pitch. I love it. The
CMO at work. Let's hit a few topics before we
end AI. Friend or foe both? Okay, how do you
use it? How do you think about it?
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Well? I feel like I have to be thinking about
it a lot because of my role at Sesame and
for Sesame Workshop. This is a really important issue. Because
of your question, friend or foe, we know there are
both huge risks and huge opportunities, and as we've discussed today,
we have to look at everything through the lens of
(30:47):
a child, and so as an organization, of course, I
need to be thinking about how do Sesame use AI,
how do we train our employees, How are we more
effective and efficient with AI? And at the same time,
we need to be thinking about how do we help
parents understand the risk. How do we provide resources to
(31:10):
families that we like to call it digital wellbeing, that
are helping them develop the strategies the foundation to have
more of a healthy relationship for young children with technology
at an earlier age. So that is both a responsibility
in looking at the risk and the guardrails needed. And
(31:31):
yet at the same time, how do we use AI
to be as effective as we can? The other thing
that's so important for us, we're always looking at what
is the most important curriculum for young children, and so
critical thinking skills is essential that we're making sure that
young children have the critical thinking skills they need, the
self regulation in terms of digital well being, the perspective taking.
(31:56):
So there's a really important role for SESAME to help
prepare children growing up in a world powered by AI.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Like it or not, technology is moving faster than ever.
How do you stay abreast of those changes and decide
how you use it in your organization?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Well, I think it's very challenging the speed of change
the world in which we're living. We look at that
again through the lens of children too. It's not just
societal change. It feels like the world is more divided
than ever before. It's technological change, it's environmental change, and
so we just work so hard with key partners through
(32:35):
our own research to remain innovative. The AI thing is
just as a speed that is I think beyond all
of us, and we're struggling and doing our best work speed.
But from a technology and an innovation standpoint, it's always
been important to us. Again, as I said, even though
it used to be television that was innovative in its day,
and gone are the days where everyone comes to you
(32:57):
in one place. And that's the same with children. So
if we're going to be effective, we have to reach
to teach, which means we need to understand where children
are consuming media, understand what platforms are essential for us
to be on. That may vary depending on the targeted audience,
(33:18):
you know, particularly geographically, but so it's really important for
us to understand where children are in order to go
to them, to reach them, and to be making sure
that on all those platforms they are on, there is
actual quality content that can be a constructive use of
(33:39):
their time that is good for them.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
On a personal note, work life balance or work life integration,
how do you live it?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I think it's more work life integration. I think as
much as we talked about work life balance for many years,
it's not going to be always balanced. There's going to
be sometimes where work just takes more time and it's
a necessity you're going through this crisis or this deal,
or they're going to be sometimes where the age of
your children or family just requires more attention. My family
(34:12):
is clearly my priority, especially when my children were young
growing up. The great thing about working at SESS me
no one ever bats an eye if you're leaving for
a ballgame or a recital or your children's school. That
is just understood that it's a priority. But I don't
think it's easy to do it all at the same time.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
So when young people come to you, you're giving them
some advice. What do you say to people who want
to work in the government and for people who want
to work in nonprofits? What unique advice do you give them?
Speaker 2 (34:39):
For those I would say that whether it's for a nonprofit,
for a company you love, for government service, just make
sure it's true to your passion like that you believe
in what you're doing. You don't have to be a
nonprofit to have clear mission. Corporations have a clear mission.
It's okay that they have to return money to a shareholder.
(35:01):
And I always tell younger people right out of school,
meet with anyone, talk with anyone, take the job. Even
if you learn that you hate that, that was really
valuable to learn. I don't want to do that. So
all of that is a learning process. And I certainly
didn't come out of college with a very clear path
that I'm going to end up at Sesame Street. One
thing led to the next, and there were opportunities that
(35:24):
came about that they made sense of the time. They
don't make sense when you look back. But I'm really
grateful for all those very different experiences I've had, both
in public service corporate nonprofit media.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
If you could go back in time, what advice would
you give your twenty one year old self.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Oh, I would tell my twenty one year old self
to worry less about being embarrassed and less about what
others think, and again probably to take more risks.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
We end each episode of Mathemagic with a shout out
to the people who we know or know of who
we think see business through math, through numbers, through data,
and that's their path to success. And then those people
who are the magician's magic and they just make things
happen because they just have that spark and that creativity.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
I would say for the mathematician, I would actually do
a shout out to James Heckman, who is actually a
Nobel Prize winning economist at the University of Chicago. And
the reason I say James Heckman is because he has
been such an inspiration for our work at SESAME. He's
done a lot of the work on the return on
investment to reaching children in their critical early years, and
(36:38):
we rely on that that is such an important fact
to understand not just educational but the long term outcomes
and improvements when you reach children in those critical early
years in terms of their long term health, their productivity.
And of course he's done a lot of the work
on the math that shows the return to society as
(37:01):
a whole in terms of reduced incarceration, reduced health costs, etc.
So I'm gonna go with James Heckman on the magic. Well,
I think I'm gonna have to go with Abbi Kadabby
for the magician because also the the muppeteer Leslie Carrera Rudolph,
who is Abbiy Kadabby what I know, I know, but
(37:25):
she is the most I've never seen someone pours so
much heart into her art and so her ability. I mean,
it is true that Abbie Kidabbi is the one character
on Sesame that has magic. But if you watch Leslie
interact with children, especially children with disabilities or particular neurodiverse children,
(37:52):
oh my god, she's magical. I mean, she really is
just magical. So I'm gonna go with with Leslie Cherry.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
We all appreciate what you're doing for kids all over
the world. Thank you, and certainly in our home here
in the US, and the unique insights you gave us today.
So thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Thank you so much for inviting me with such a treat.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Here are a few things I picked up from my
conversation with Sherry. One mission, Mission Mission. It's at the
heart of everything Sherry does at Sesame Workshop, from guiding
decisions to im viewing a sense of urgency to establishing longevity.
When you have such a clear and meaningful why, the
rest falls into place. Two. There isn't always an easy decision,
(38:35):
but you can make it right. Sesame Workshop has had
a tough hear the most challenging Sherry has ever seen,
and while some situations don't have a perfect solution, it's
still important to consider all the options and be decisive.
From there, you lead with confidence and make your decisions
work for you. Three. Creative work needs an audience. The
(38:56):
content at Sesame Workshop, from songs to muppets, is incredibly
clever and joyful, but creativity isn't enough to keep the
organization going or to fulfill the mission. Data and research
about education, impact and audience are a part of every
decision in Sesame. As Sherry says, you need to reach
to teach. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's it
(39:21):
for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Thanks so much for listening to Math and Magic, a
production of iHeart Podcasts. The show is created and hosted
by Bob Pittman. The Math and Magic team is Ali Perry,
Jessica Crinchitch, and Dylan Hoyer. Special thanks to Sidney Rosenbloom
for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no
small feat. Until next time,
You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Clear focus on the mission, not losing sight of the
most important audience and why we're there and listen. I
don't even think Sesame Street can be bulletproof. We have dings,
we have missteps. There's going to be certain factions that
may not agree with Sesame or our content. But as
long as we're true to our purpose, then I think
(00:30):
people trust that the brand is authentic. They trust the
brand value. Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I'm Bob Pittman, and welcome to this episode of Math
and Magic, Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing. Today, we're
going to explore a new frontier kids TV and muppets.
Our guest today is Sherry Weston, the president and CEO
of Sesame Workshop, the nonprofit behind Sesame Street that uses
the power of educational media to help children get the smarter, young,
(01:00):
and kinder. Cherry grew up in Roanoke, Virginia, in the
middle of an apple orchard. She stayed in Virginia for
college at UVA. Before Sesame Street, Cherry had experience in
pr and in the government in the late eighties and
nineties and traditional media at ABC and US News and
World Report, but most of her working life has been
in service to the Muppets. Sherry is also a fun,
(01:21):
interesting person and longtime friends Cherry welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I love the fun and interesting part you are.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Craise knows that now with all of our friends describe
you that way, So you're very lucky. Before we get
on to the meaty stuff. I want to do you
in sixty seconds good. I love that cats are dogs
dogs early riser in night Out, night ol Country or
City Country DC or New York, New York. Protein or
carbs ugh protein sweet or savory sweet, introvert or extrovert,
(01:51):
borderline but extrovert. Comedy or drama comedy. We need comedy, monster,
foody or almost world, Almost World, Oscar the Grouch or
the count Oscar. Commercial airline or air Force one?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well air Force one was fun?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Cook or eat out order in who call for text
text about to get hard? Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Favorite celebrity ever on Sesame Street, Ray Charles favorite all
time movie.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
It's a wonderful life.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Smartest person you know.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
My husband David so annoying.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
That's pretty good. Childhood hero it would have to be
my dad. What did you want to do when you
grew up teacher. Best piece of advice you ever got to.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Be self aware, to know your strengths and weaknesses.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Favorite place to visit Hoositano and your secret talent gifts
some cards. Okay, that's good, let's jump in. Okay, I know.
Sesame Street is the longest running kids show, probably by
a mile. It might even be the or one of
the longest running TV shows. What's at the heart of
that enduring popularity?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Well, I think it really does speak to the prescience
of the creators and founders of Sesame Street, because if
you think of the origins, it was the late sixties,
the War on Poverty, civil rights movement, and there was
research that showed that children in poverty were showing up
at school without the skills they needed to be ready
to learn. So Sesame started as a huge experiment. Could
(03:18):
you use television the medium of the day to teach
was a radical idea of the time, but more importantly,
to reach children who didn't have access to quality early education.
And so I think the prescience of that, the fact
that the need for that today is as great as
nineteen sixty nine. There are so many children who still
(03:39):
need access to quality early education. The opportunity to reach
them through media has never been greater. It's not just television,
it's every possible form. And I think the fact that
Sesame has always innovated and tried to meet the needs
of children today, and of course are engaging muppets, is
what's kept us relevant.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Let's dig into that just a little bit. How do
you keep it relevant for these successive generations of kids.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Well, another point I would make that was sort of
an AHA moment for me when I understood it was
Joan Kanz Cooney who was the creator of Sesame Street.
Not only does she have the foresight to focus on preschool,
the early years when we can have the greatest impact,
but she just had a hunch that the learning would
be deeper if an adult were watching with a child.
(04:28):
So now think of Sesame Street. The reason there were
celebrities still are musicians, humor parodies, and muppets was all
because she wanted it to be appealing to adults as
well as children. So that's why I think it's still
what it is fifty six years later. It appeals to
all ages. And again, the fact that we're always addressing
(04:52):
different issues throughout the decades, does keep us very relevant.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And how do you spot what those issues are that
are relevant.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Well, there's not a specific formula. I mean, if you
think of our history over the decades, childhood obesity becomes
an issue. So we create healthy habits for life, and
Cookie Monster teaches you he can't give up cookies, but
he teaches you that cookies are sometimes food, and fruit
and veggies are in anytime food. When we saw that
the number of children being diagnosed with autism was just
(05:23):
growing significantly. I think the number today is one in
thirty one, we created our Sea Amazing and All Children
Initiative to help families with children with autism make every
day moments easier. It even led to the first autistic
Muppet ever, Julia, so children with autism can identify with
her feel less alone, but also so that we can
(05:45):
break down that stigma and help neurotypical children have a
greater understanding of autism. So I could go on and on,
parental addiction, childhood displacement. It could be through just basic
understanding what's happening in the world. We also partner with
organizations on the ground and often they'll be the ones
to tell us. Look the opioid crisis. We're dealing with
(06:08):
so many young children where a parent is struggling with addiction,
and yet they're no materials for young children. So often
it's through our partnership other experts that will lead us
to the conclusion that we need to step up.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
You have dealt with, either at Sesame Street or in
other places, government cutbacks off and on for decades. How
do you navigate the uncertainty when that comes and goes.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
The main thing that we've always done is just try
to be true to our mission for parents and others
to understand why Sesame Street is so valuable. I mean,
we're big partners with PBS, and we believe deeply in
the importance of public broadcasting so that all children can
have access to quality programming like Sesame Street. But I
(06:56):
would also say that it's really important for us to
remain nonpartisan. We're a charitable organization of five oh one
c three. We are not a political advocacy organization, and
so as long as we're true to our mission of
what's best for preschoolers, we've been able to navigate those storms. Now.
Funding absolutely, it's not just government funding, but there have
(07:19):
been real challenges over the years and very recently, the
media landscape has changed so much that was a very
significant economic challenge for SAAME. And you also saw the
administration eliminate USAID funding that had a direct impact on
our international work, eliminate corporation for public broadcasting. Fortunately, federal
(07:42):
funding is less than four percent of our overall budget,
but it is a place like Bangladesh, it's one hundred
percent of that funding.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
So let's talk about success. Hey, you know you're a
business person, got long history with it and sort of
business terms. How do you measure and define success for
Sesame Street? What are you looking at to say yes,
it's working.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I think one of the most rewarding things about working
at Sesame Workshop, like any nonprofit, is our success is
not on return to the shareholder. It is not on economics.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Lucky you, lucky me.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yes, it's the one the impact we're having for young
children now, it's incredibly important that we can raise the
funds to support that work through a combination of our
earned revenue. We do have the advantage of licensing our IP,
but it's philanthropic support in order to have a real
impact on helping young children give them the skills they need.
(08:37):
To not just succeed in school, but to succeed in life.
And research is a huge part of our DNA. Anything
we set out to do, we start with research. We
also test along the way so we can iterate, and
then most importantly, we're measuring those outcomes because if we
can't prove the impact, then how do we sustain the work?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
So this podcast focuses on more marketing. You've got one
of the best known and loved brands. How do you
manage that brand? I mean you've got to sort of say, Okay,
I'm the steward of this great brand. How do you
build those boxes around it? And how do you think
about just the management and how do you protect that brand?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, the brand is the most important thing we have,
right It's what people believe in, it's what they trust,
and it's incredibly valuable. Sessme is like the number one
trusted preschool brand. We take that very seriously. And you
know this, in any brand, there are I like to
think they're deposits and withdrawals. There's sometimes you're deciding whether
(09:39):
to do something and you realize it's going to be
a little bit of a withdrawal, but it's worth it.
Because here are the other trade offs, but there just
always have to be more deposits. It's pretty easy to
know that the north star has to be the trust
of parents and the love of children. That if we
(09:59):
stay focused on what's most important for a three year old,
then I feel like we're true to our brand. And
that's always sort of lens with which we have to
look at various decisions.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Jim Henson, creator of the Muppets and a fellow Mississippian,
was an absolute genius and it's sort of an interesting
case study here is how did the Muppets survive and
even thrive after the tragic loss of their creator.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Well, I was not here when that happened, but I
certainly hear so many stories. And also it was just
such a shock to everyone because he wasn't ill for
a long time, so it was not expected. But I
think it's because Jim was such a tutor and mentor
and so beloved that every one of those muppeteers that
worked with him, that were trained by him, I mean,
(10:49):
so many of them are still on Sesame Street and
they believe wholeheartedly in the mission of Sesame their art.
I mean, these are the most talented individuals, and so
it was never a question that they wouldn't carry on
continue to sort of bring the magic to life.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
There's a lesson in this for brands about bulletproofing franchises.
So if we take it out of Sesame and let's
take it to the rest of the world, what lesson
do you think you learn from that founder creator?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I think it's I think it's clear focus on the mission,
not losing sight of the most important audience and why
we're there. And listen, I don't even think Sesame Street
can be bulletproof. We have dings, we have missteps. There's
going to be certain factions that may not agree with
Sesame or our content. But as long as we're true
(11:47):
to our purpose, then I think people trust that the
brand is authentic. They trust the brand value.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
You've alluded to it here, so I want to pull
it in. Sesame Workshop is a nonprofit. You are clearly
in service to others with a well defined and important mission.
You were sort of talking generally about culture. How do
you think about the corporate culture, your company culture, the
operating culture there, and how that helps you deliver on
(12:16):
your mission.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Well, one of the things about the culture that I
think is such a tremendous asset is we're a very unusual,
complicated organization. People assume you're just Sesame Street the show.
They often don't have any idea the depth and breadth
of our work. Whether you're working in the Middle East
with serving displaced children, whether you're doing partnership deals with
(12:39):
licensed partners that are helping to bring in revenue, whether
you're dealing with the media distribution partners, whether you're dealing
with really difficult subjects that we tackle, and community organizations
much less policy, government, all of the things that factor in.
But having said that, regards wardless of whether someone works
(13:01):
in the licensing side, the themed entertainment side, the direct
services program, social impact, philanthropic development, they all believe in
the mission of Sessame, And honestly, I think people there
are so proud to do what we do. I mean,
even though there are ups and downs and challenges, there
is a real sense of mission and that is a
(13:25):
tremendous advantage in terms of leading an organization. Our culture
needs to reflect our values and so if our mission
is to help children everywhere grow smarter, stronger, and kinder,
that's important too. We'll often say, like, you know, in
our meetings and our business, we need to treat each
(13:46):
other in the same way that we're trying to impart
those same values we're children. So I do think it's
a special place to work.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
And how would you contrast that or compare it to
when you were in the for profit media in terms
of how they do culture and how you do culture.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Well, it's such an interesting question. I will tell you
an interesting culture observation. You know, I had been at
ABC News. I left to go to the White House.
This is the nineties. I came back to ABC Network
when Bob Eiger became president, and it had been Cap
Cities ABC. Both when I was at News and when
I came back, Tom Murphy and Dan Burke were CEO
(14:29):
and COO whom I just admired and loved and adored.
I mean, they were just incredible leaders. It was a
Fortune one hundred company that felt like it was run
like a family business. And I will never forget that.
Tom always said, you can make mistakes as long as
they're honest and you learn from them. I was an
executive vice president. You felt empowered, You felt that you
(14:51):
had the ability to lead, to take risks, which we
all know is so important in an organization that you
know you can take the risk. So I was also
there when Disney bought us, and I've never seen a
corporate culture change so quickly.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Really.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, Now this is not a reflection on Disney today.
This is back right, but it just with all due
respect to Michael Eisner, it went from immediately feeling empowered
and that you could take risks to being very cautious
and concerned. Like in terms of that corporate culture, it
was a very interesting thing to live through.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Interesting and I think your point is interesting how fast
it can change new owner's new approach. Talk a little
bit about how you manage. I love Peter Truck or
Stefanisher management. I think it was getting results through other
people that was pretty simple. How do you do that?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
You ask what the best advice I've ever been given?
And I said, it's to be self aware as a leader,
And by that I mean that you understand those strengths
and weaknesses so that you surround yourself with people that
are much stronger than you are. You know what areas
you should be delegating, and so I think it's so
(16:04):
important to delegate to surround myself with people that have
very different skill sets and strengths, where I can say,
you know better than I do on this, and I'm
going to defer to you, or at least I'm getting
the benefit of very different perspectives even if I have
to ultimately make that decision. And I have a wonderful team.
(16:24):
I really admire and respect each of the people that
I work with on the leadership team. I may not
always agree with them, but I do know the integrity
of each of those people, and I know that each
of us are trying to do the right thing always,
even when we may see it very differently. So I
think that's just the most important thing in leadership is
(16:46):
who you surround yourself with.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Talking a little bit more about management, how do you
manage around risk taking? You've brought it up on the
Capsities versus Disney. How do you think about that and
how do you manage to make sure you can get
their proper amount of risk taking?
Speaker 2 (17:02):
You know, it is the thing that you wake up
at two am thinking about, And some of our risk
have been larger than others. I think you have to
understand that. Like I've only been in the role of
CEO for less than two years. I know I'm going
to make mistakes. I hope I'm not going to make
the same ones twice. And I feel that way about risk.
(17:24):
I think there are sometimes when there is no good decision,
like either way you can argue both sides. I think
then you have to make a decision and do your
best to make it right. It may not be the
perfect decision. There isn't always a right decision, but again,
you make the decision and then do everything to make
it right. And I do think that it's one of
(17:45):
the things that's so important in leading others. And I'm
not sure we do this as well as we should,
but it's something we're very cognizant of. Imparting is to
help others feel that they can take risks, to not
be seconding if something goes wrong, and if they're wrong,
and we learn from them. It's sort of like Tom Murphy.
As long as they were honest, as long as you
(18:06):
learn from them. And that's a value.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
You were talking about spending time in the George H. W.
Bush administration. You were at ABC before that and you
left to go to government. Why do you want to
be in government?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I didn't want to be in government. I loved working
at ABC News. Ruin in Ourledge recruited me to ABC.
It was sort of the glory days, you know, the
Magnificent Seven. Is that what it was? The anchors we had.
But when the President of the United States calls and
asks you if you will take on a position in
the White House, I mean, I do think I had
(18:41):
a sense of public service, and that is hard to say. No,
I mean, believe it or not. I was one of
two highest ranking women in the White House and I
sort of felt like, how can I not?
Speaker 3 (18:54):
And you got to go on Air Force one, Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Come on, I mean, listen, the White House is just
such a challenging place to be. But I will say
that there was a time and even on Air Force one,
yes that is pretty cool. But you'd be going to
an event, you would be worried about the event. You
would be responsible for what was going to happen. It
was only flying home that you would go and you
had a beer and you would be thinking, Okay, this
(19:18):
is pretty cool. And I will never forget one time.
I can't remember where we were going, but they came
over to say, by the way, Sherry, we're going to
be flying over Roanoke, Virginia. Call your parents and I did.
We called it and said, Mom, look up, you're going
to see Air Force one.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Oh that's great. I'm on, that's great. What a treat
sessme Workshop. Do you think a nonprofit like that, because
you've been in both, it's more like the government or
for profit business.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Oh no, it's more like a for profit business. But
you have all of the challenges of a business in
order to fund the work. And keep in mind, we're
not like Red Cross or traditional nonprofit when it's only philanthropic.
We have to be able to compete in the media business,
in the licensing. It's fortunate that we have a diversified
(20:07):
revenue stream, but it's also more challenging because it makes
it harder for people to understand that you're actually a
nonprofit and need to support. But I don't see us
as like government. I see us like corporate, but with
a cause and a heart.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
So you mentioned you've been CEO for about two years.
You went through a number of jobs at Sesame Workshop
before becoming CEO.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Can't hold down the job exactly when.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
You were started as a CMO, worked a lot of
different jobs wound up as the CEO. For people who've
not been a CEO, what do you think they don't
know about being the CEO versus any of those.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Other jobs, that it's much lonelier. I never understood that
when people said the job of CEOs can be lonely,
but it is because you can't share and talk with
everybody the way you might have before. And even you
are closest associates, you still are responsible. And there's certain
things that I'm someone who always wants to fix things,
(21:08):
and if you have certain issues, I want to just
help get them fixed. And then to realize there's certain
times I need you to go to HR, not me,
or I need to not be involved in this particular
part of this has been a learning experience for me too,
where I realized, no, I should have just delegated that
and not stepped in. It's not where I need to
(21:29):
be or where I should be. And I do find
that when I talk to other CEOs, it is so
helpful because they understand in a way that you don't
if you haven't. Sort of like being a parent, right like,
it doesn't mean everybody has to be a parent, but no,
one can really understand until they've been a parent.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
You were CMO and your CEO. A lot of people
listening are cmos.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I love being a CMOS really important.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
By the way, I think I'm the worst job in
our company, is anybody in marketing because my heart I'm
the CMO hiding out as a CEO.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I loved the job of CMO and we have a
fantastic team in our marketing and comms and I have
a probably more appreciation for that area than some do
because I don't see it as something where once you
have something done, you take it to be marketed. I mean,
a great marketing and comms team is so steeped in
the strategy and what you're trying to accomplish. It's you know,
(22:27):
math and magic. We rely on so much data. We're
a creative organization, but it's both the art and the science.
As I said, research is a huge part of what
we do. This is a lovely creative thing to do,
but is it having the right impact? Is it reaching
the right audience? Measuring that to make sure you're really
being not just creative, but that you're having the outcome needed,
(22:51):
Especially when you have limited resources, that forces you to
be even more strategic and hopefully more creative. But I
think that the difference is at CMO. If you're a
true marketer, you had to focus on what you love.
If you're CEO, you have to focus on all those
other things too.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
That's the big difference.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
It is more math and magic. Right after this quick break,
welcome back to math and magic. Let's hear more from
my conversation with Sherry Weston. I want to get some
context on you by going back in time. You were
(23:31):
in the last wave of baby boomers. I've read a
number of places. You grew up in the middle of
an apple orchard, rowing up Virginia. Can you paint the
picture of that place and time and sort of what
it was where you began?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
You know how you don't. You don't know that when
you're growing up that that isn't what the world is like.
That is your world, right, And when I look back,
I do realize how incredibly fortunate it was, because it
reminds me of that Madman Eras.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Like.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
My mother was a stay at home mom. She was young.
She had me a year after my mother and father
got married. I think she was twenty three. And we
did grow up in an apple orchard. I mean there
were other homes too, it just happened to be a
big apple orchard. We'd had thirteen apple trees in our yard.
I had to pick up apples all the time. I mean,
I just have such fond memories of my childhood. I
(24:23):
have two younger brothers. We lived at the end of
a sort of dead end, so we could leave the
house and not have to you know, Mom would just
call it later and to come back home because and
I do think our parents just loved being parents. So
we were in the top of the apple trees. My
mom was right up there with us. I realized we
(24:45):
were like her playmates because she was so young. I
can't imagine at twenty three having I mean I didn't
have children until much later. But it was a great
place to grow up.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
What influence did your parents have on you? Did you
sort of look at yourself today and say that came
from my parents? What is it?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well, my father was very sort of large and in charge,
had a wonderful sense of humor. My parents entertained a lot.
He was in sales and so he was just a
great businessman. But you know, he enjoyed people. They were
a great couple. I just remember always having people over
and we would run around at our pajamas. My little
brother would have the pajamas with your feet in it,
(25:23):
but we would get to stay up for the party.
And you know, I'm probably one of the only people
that likes the smell of cigarettes, even though I've never smoked,
because the only time you ever smelled cigarettes was the party.
In those days, my parents didn't smoke, but they put
out ashrays if you're having a party, right. So they
were just really fun and very caring. Like my dad,
(25:45):
just looked out for people in a way that I
appreciated more and more as I got older. My mom
was also very creative, so she let me start creative
class in our basement when I was in fourth grade
and all the younger kids would come over. We started
the neighborhood Gazette, where I would write little articles on
(26:06):
different pets around the neighborhood and stick them in people's mailboxes.
You know, she was always coming up with fun ideas
for events or activities. Everyone was always at our house
because my mom was everybody's favorite. Mom.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Were you a good student?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I was a good student.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Were you an athlete?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
I played tennis, Well that's pretty good.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Well behaved or hell raiser.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
I was well behaved. It's not a hell racer. Until
I got a little older.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
When did you realize Rowano was not your future?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
You know? Again, I had such a happy childhood that
it's not like I was trying to get out. But
I didn't want to go to college in the same state.
And yet I ended up going to University of Virginia,
And I'm actually so grateful I did. I think. I
just thought I wanted to go far away, and I
didn't really have the sophistication to understand how much better
one school was than another. So by luck, I ended
(27:02):
up choosing UVA. I realized how much more I was
exposed to a UVA because people were from so many
different places. Never occurred to me to go back to Roanoke,
you know. And I went to Washington, d C. After college,
and then to New York again. It was a great
place to grow up. My mother's still there, but I
(27:22):
was always sort of elsewhere afterwards.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Ever long for the small town life.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I really love the life that I have, so I'm
not yearning for anything different. Listen, my children. We've raised
them in Bronxville, right outside the city, so you still
have the treehouse David built or the yard, and it's
not a bad commute. So I have all the benefits
of the city, but I don't feel like I'm missing
(27:48):
out you.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
In addition to all this other stuff you're doing, you're
also an author. You got a book out what I
learned from Mom. Give us the headline about it.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I can't take credit for this idea. One of the
former CEOs, who you know, Jeff Done, when he stepped down,
he said to me, I've always had a passion project.
I want to write a book on what I learned
from Mom, because he is convinced his mom had lived
in a different area, she would have been a CEO.
And he said, will you help me? And I was like, Jeff,
you know my job, I don't have two minutes in
(28:21):
a day. How would I possibly be able to help
you with this? And he goes, no, no, no, you know
you could help me think of people to include. We'll
do interviews together. So anyway, I said, okay, on one condition,
I could only rationalize this if it benefits says to
me in some way, and he generously agreed that we
would donate all of our author proceeds to SESAME workshops,
(28:41):
so that way I could rationalize that I would take
time and we have a really interesting, eclectic group. There
are twenty seven stories from individuals talking about the impact
their mother had on their success. These are all very successful,
interesting people from ken Burn's two, Cindy Crawford from Skip
(29:01):
Gates to Katie Kurk, people from different walks of life.
Diane von Furstenberg, I love clarsa Ward from CNN has
a fantastic story. Some are more about how challenging it was,
but what they learned from their mother. Some are what
you would expect that their mother believed so much in them.
But I actually find the stories so different. They're quite charming,
and it forced me to have to write a small
(29:24):
chapter on my mother. And I do think I've always
thought of myself as sort of closer to my dad
and Daddy's girl growing up. But just listening, I had
done a lot of the interviews with Jeff before he
said you're going to have to write a chapter for you,
and he said, let me interview you about your mom.
And I have to say I really came away with
(29:46):
this appreciation. That actually got a lot more from my
mom than I might think, and that was a nice process.
I read the book to her last weekend when I
went to see her in Virginia, and I'm gla that
I did this.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
So here's what everybody listening. If you buy the book,
remember you're making a donation to Sesame Work.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yes, yes, and you can. You can go on any website, Amazon, whatever.
The book just came out, so you can order it.
I think it would make a great Mother's Day present.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Here we go, here's the pitch. I love it. The
CMO at work. Let's hit a few topics before we
end AI. Friend or foe both? Okay, how do you
use it? How do you think about it?
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Well? I feel like I have to be thinking about
it a lot because of my role at Sesame and
for Sesame Workshop. This is a really important issue. Because
of your question, friend or foe, we know there are
both huge risks and huge opportunities, and as we've discussed today,
we have to look at everything through the lens of
(30:47):
a child, and so as an organization, of course, I
need to be thinking about how do Sesame use AI,
how do we train our employees, How are we more
effective and efficient with AI? And at the same time,
we need to be thinking about how do we help
parents understand the risk. How do we provide resources to
(31:10):
families that we like to call it digital wellbeing, that
are helping them develop the strategies the foundation to have
more of a healthy relationship for young children with technology
at an earlier age. So that is both a responsibility
in looking at the risk and the guardrails needed. And
(31:31):
yet at the same time, how do we use AI
to be as effective as we can? The other thing
that's so important for us, we're always looking at what
is the most important curriculum for young children, and so
critical thinking skills is essential that we're making sure that
young children have the critical thinking skills they need, the
self regulation in terms of digital well being, the perspective taking.
(31:56):
So there's a really important role for SESAME to help
prepare children growing up in a world powered by AI.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Like it or not, technology is moving faster than ever.
How do you stay abreast of those changes and decide
how you use it in your organization?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Well, I think it's very challenging the speed of change
the world in which we're living. We look at that
again through the lens of children too. It's not just
societal change. It feels like the world is more divided
than ever before. It's technological change, it's environmental change, and
so we just work so hard with key partners through
(32:35):
our own research to remain innovative. The AI thing is
just as a speed that is I think beyond all
of us, and we're struggling and doing our best work speed.
But from a technology and an innovation standpoint, it's always
been important to us. Again, as I said, even though
it used to be television that was innovative in its day,
and gone are the days where everyone comes to you
(32:57):
in one place. And that's the same with children. So
if we're going to be effective, we have to reach
to teach, which means we need to understand where children
are consuming media, understand what platforms are essential for us
to be on. That may vary depending on the targeted audience,
(33:18):
you know, particularly geographically, but so it's really important for
us to understand where children are in order to go
to them, to reach them, and to be making sure
that on all those platforms they are on, there is
actual quality content that can be a constructive use of
(33:39):
their time that is good for them.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
On a personal note, work life balance or work life integration,
how do you live it?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I think it's more work life integration. I think as
much as we talked about work life balance for many years,
it's not going to be always balanced. There's going to
be sometimes where work just takes more time and it's
a necessity you're going through this crisis or this deal,
or they're going to be sometimes where the age of
your children or family just requires more attention. My family
(34:12):
is clearly my priority, especially when my children were young
growing up. The great thing about working at SESS me
no one ever bats an eye if you're leaving for
a ballgame or a recital or your children's school. That
is just understood that it's a priority. But I don't
think it's easy to do it all at the same time.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
So when young people come to you, you're giving them
some advice. What do you say to people who want
to work in the government and for people who want
to work in nonprofits? What unique advice do you give them?
Speaker 2 (34:39):
For those I would say that whether it's for a nonprofit,
for a company you love, for government service, just make
sure it's true to your passion like that you believe
in what you're doing. You don't have to be a
nonprofit to have clear mission. Corporations have a clear mission.
It's okay that they have to return money to a shareholder.
(35:01):
And I always tell younger people right out of school,
meet with anyone, talk with anyone, take the job. Even
if you learn that you hate that, that was really
valuable to learn. I don't want to do that. So
all of that is a learning process. And I certainly
didn't come out of college with a very clear path
that I'm going to end up at Sesame Street. One
thing led to the next, and there were opportunities that
(35:24):
came about that they made sense of the time. They
don't make sense when you look back. But I'm really
grateful for all those very different experiences I've had, both
in public service corporate nonprofit media.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
If you could go back in time, what advice would
you give your twenty one year old self.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Oh, I would tell my twenty one year old self
to worry less about being embarrassed and less about what
others think, and again probably to take more risks.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
We end each episode of Mathemagic with a shout out
to the people who we know or know of who
we think see business through math, through numbers, through data,
and that's their path to success. And then those people
who are the magician's magic and they just make things
happen because they just have that spark and that creativity.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
I would say for the mathematician, I would actually do
a shout out to James Heckman, who is actually a
Nobel Prize winning economist at the University of Chicago. And
the reason I say James Heckman is because he has
been such an inspiration for our work at SESAME. He's
done a lot of the work on the return on
investment to reaching children in their critical early years, and
(36:38):
we rely on that that is such an important fact
to understand not just educational but the long term outcomes
and improvements when you reach children in those critical early
years in terms of their long term health, their productivity.
And of course he's done a lot of the work
on the math that shows the return to society as
(37:01):
a whole in terms of reduced incarceration, reduced health costs, etc.
So I'm gonna go with James Heckman on the magic. Well,
I think I'm gonna have to go with Abbi Kadabby
for the magician because also the the muppeteer Leslie Carrera Rudolph,
who is Abbiy Kadabby what I know, I know, but
(37:25):
she is the most I've never seen someone pours so
much heart into her art and so her ability. I mean,
it is true that Abbie Kidabbi is the one character
on Sesame that has magic. But if you watch Leslie
interact with children, especially children with disabilities or particular neurodiverse children,
(37:52):
oh my god, she's magical. I mean, she really is
just magical. So I'm gonna go with with Leslie Cherry.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
We all appreciate what you're doing for kids all over
the world. Thank you, and certainly in our home here
in the US, and the unique insights you gave us today.
So thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Thank you so much for inviting me with such a treat.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Here are a few things I picked up from my
conversation with Sherry. One mission, Mission Mission. It's at the
heart of everything Sherry does at Sesame Workshop, from guiding
decisions to im viewing a sense of urgency to establishing longevity.
When you have such a clear and meaningful why, the
rest falls into place. Two. There isn't always an easy decision,
(38:35):
but you can make it right. Sesame Workshop has had
a tough hear the most challenging Sherry has ever seen,
and while some situations don't have a perfect solution, it's
still important to consider all the options and be decisive.
From there, you lead with confidence and make your decisions
work for you. Three. Creative work needs an audience. The
(38:56):
content at Sesame Workshop, from songs to muppets, is incredibly
clever and joyful, but creativity isn't enough to keep the
organization going or to fulfill the mission. Data and research
about education, impact and audience are a part of every
decision in Sesame. As Sherry says, you need to reach
to teach. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's it
(39:21):
for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Thanks so much for listening to Math and Magic, a
production of iHeart Podcasts. The show is created and hosted
by Bob Pittman. The Math and Magic team is Ali Perry,
Jessica Crinchitch, and Dylan Hoyer. Special thanks to Sidney Rosenbloom
for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no
small feat. Until next time,
Host
Bob Pittman
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