July 1, 2026 • 19 mins
Could vintage jewelry be one of the smartest real assets to own right now? Merryn Somerset Webb speaks with vintage jewelry expert Emma de Sybel, a former banker who is now the director of Baroque Rocks, about which gemstones, eras, and brands are holding their value—and why buying pre-owned pieces could offer both financial potential and something beautiful to wear.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome to Marin Talk
Your Money, the personal finance edition of Merin Talk's Money.
In these bonus podcasts, we talk about the best strategies
for making the most of your money. I'm Marin Sumset,
(00:22):
web Editor at Large for Bloomberg UK Money, and in
this episode we're going to talk about it slightly less
conventional investment choice. Fine jewelry, vintage jewelry, antique jewelry, however
you want to talk about it, Jewelry that you are
not buying new now the time of market volatility and
ongoing inflation. Jewelry is not only held as value, but
in many cases it has appreciated more than many cases nicely.
(00:44):
So if you are thinking about this in terms of
real assets, how might it actually fit into your wider portfolio?
With me today is Emma Discibil, a former banker who's
now the director of Baroque Rocks, a company which specializes
in vintage jewelry, which is a keen eye for there's stuff,
and that has led to partnerships with various brands, including
fashion retailer Jigsaw and the label Paul Smith. Along the Way.
(01:07):
Welcome to Merin talks money.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Oh, it's wonderful, wonderful to be with you, meren.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Listen, let's just start back.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Tell it.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Tell me a little bit about what you do and
the type of jewelry that you are interested in and
that you sell.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Okay, so I sell predominantly vintage jewelry, and from those
nineteen sixties to early two thousand's vintage is quite interesting.
It's actually fifteen years old, the technical term for vintage.
But it's fine vintage jewelry, which has intrinsic value effectively.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, so when you say fine vintage jewelry, what you
mean is jewelry with actual gems and pressures, metals.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It's exactly. It's not costume jewelry. So it's anything from
nine carrot to fourteen character eighteen carrot. I don't go
any really higher than eighteen charrot because it just yeah,
it's just there's not really the marketplace for that. But
it's very much well. I love it because it's it's
got intrinsic value. It's also really funky, it's very cool. So, yes,
you've got your intrinsic metal value. You've got real gemstones
(02:08):
in there, which also have another value. And they're sustainable.
I think the second hand market is a bit like
driving a car off a fore cord. You know, the
moment you've driven a car, brand new car, it loses
some of its value, but there's still your secondary market.
And I think that's the same thing for Vince's jewelry.
There's very much this big secondary market.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, okay, So looking back at the jewelry before the
period when you're interested in buying jury, there are various
things that you can't really get anymore. There's old cut diamonds.
You sometimes see it auction, et cetera. I'm quite interested
in those because diamonds in particular, when you look at
the modern diamond world, do you think, why on earth
(02:49):
would you go into a shop and buy a piece
of diamond jewelry when we know that you that man
made diamonds are identical exactly, And so the value of
modern diamond jewelry like a little levy. But older diamond
jewelry maybe holds its value.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It very much does earn, especially old minecut diamonds. No
two are the same, and then a lot of them
were recut again in the twentieth century. So basically surviving
old mind cuts are actually becoming scarceer, so again, so
that's why the value's gone up.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
But they don't. But they don't have quite the same
sparkle as a modern cut diamond.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
No, they really don't. They really don't. But I'm real traditionalists,
so I don't touch lab growns. I will not touch them.
And that's ridiculous really, because chemically they have.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
They are exactly the same.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
They are exactly the same, but one is grown in
a test tube and the other one comes from the earth.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
You might not touch them, and other jewelers might not
touch them, but nonetheless, it makes a diamond worthless, doesn't it.
A mind diamond is still worthless because of the existence
of lab grown dimonies. Someone told me about a decade
ago that if you were going to buy a diamond,
with the rise of lab grown diamonds, you should always
buy a flawed diamond or a colored diamond, which may
be one of the reasons why champagne diamonds, etcetera. Took
(04:05):
off a few years back.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Exactly they did, and actually, really the only diamonds that
have held their value recently are the fancy colored diamonds, pinks,
the blues, and they really are genuinely rare. I think
we're going back to the lab growths. There's no resale
market for a lab growner, So I'm going to go
back to my emotional earlier argument of it was formed
billions of years ago versus back in a laboratory.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah. The key point is that a labyrin diamond is
never going to be an investment, but its existence devalues
your investment in mind diamonds.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Depends on when your diamond was. If it's an old mindcots,
then that's value. Yeah, it has to be. Sadly, it has.
I mean the prices are down fifty twenty percent, so yes,
you're right.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah, all right, let's talk about other gemsy other gems?
What is popular? What is fashion?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Mom?
Speaker 1 (04:54):
When I bought something the other day, I bought a
zircon ring. Everyone said to me, why would you buy
a man made them? Because people hear zircon and they hear.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
But actually, this is a beautiful gem. But I think
it's really undervalued because no one recognizes it as being
the equivalent of.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
A Selfhi, no, exactly, So zircons. I love a zircon.
I'll talk about the blue one. So the blue circons
really do rival the sapphires, and they are a fraction
of the cost. Obviously, because saphars again have going back
to dimons, diamonds, sapphars, emeralds, and rubies. With a big
four and those are the big four, then everyone else
(05:32):
is jostling for the next place. But within the jewelry world,
you can no longer talk about the big four. You
have to talk about all gemstones. But I'm still going
to talk about the big four.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Hang on, why aren't you allowed to talk about the
big four?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
I think there are We can't call them the big
four anymore. You have, okay, just put them into a
slightly bigger bucket with everyone else, but zircons. If I've
got a chipped diamond in there, for example, sometimes I'll
replace it with a white circon, which again right balls
for diamonds. For they're brilliant blue circons. They're vastly undervalued,
(06:05):
So there I'd say they are a great investments. I
am going to if I may just take us onto
going back to the big four. Emeralds and emeralds are
part of the beryl family, and the reason I wanted
to talk about beryls are because going back to undervalued
gemstones are aquamarines and morganites, because morganites and aquamarines are
(06:27):
not an emerald, but they are in the same again
chemical formula, chemical makeup the same family. But again they
haven't had the marketing, they haven't had the history, they
haven't had the folklore that an emerald has enjoyed. For example,
because they were found discovered in nineteen ten, they don't
have the same market value.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Is it also about Is it also about rarity? It
is an emerald, what we think of as an emerald
and nice green color, etc. Is that more rare than
an ach marine or a morganite, Because I think one
of the big drivers here is rarity. No, really not no, So.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
They're really rare. They are rare, but they just haven't
had the marketing around them. And that's why I always say,
actually have a look at when you're if you're buying jewelry,
look at the morganites, look at the acromarines. And what's
really interesting going back to diamonds, because a diamond market
has fallen so significantly, a lot of investors are pivoting
now to the colored gemstone market, and that's been very
(07:24):
interesting and people are asking me for different colored stones,
et cetera, et cetera. Another fascinating undervalued gemstone, in my opinion,
is a spinell. Now, I don't know if you know
what a spinella.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I don't visit you, okay.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So spanell is really exciting. So in so, when King
Charles had his coronation back in twenty twenty three, he
wore out of Westminster Abbey, he literally strutted off wearing
the black Prince's ruby in the Imperial straight crown. Right
apart from that ruby in the State crown that hangs
(08:00):
just above the visible just above the cross, is not
a ruby. It's a spinel. It's still referred to as
a ruby, okay.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And is it the same chemical makeup?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Is it no different, totally different gemstone? It's and it's
found from Burma. But basically for centuries, miners didn't distinguish
between the two, between a ruby or a spanel. They
couldn't tell the difference. Then they went into the labs
where they were properly assessed and discovered that they're very different.
Why they're compelling now is that there's no lab grown disruption.
(08:34):
They're very underpriced equivalent to rubies and auction prices again,
the collector base of growing and the color range, just
like diamonds, is quite large.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Burmese rubies used to be all the raids, right. Is
it possible that quite quite a few of the things
that were flagged as Burmese rubies are actually spinels?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
I would say they probably are one hundred percent yeap interesting.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Okay, Here's another gem that I've always been interested in,
which is relatively new one. I remember when the first
marketing campaign for it started about twenty years ago, which
is tanzanite, which apparently only comes from one mine at
the bottom of Kilimanjaro, et cetera. There is this huge
Marilani Hill exactly huge marketing campaign around it about twenty
years ago, and they then they seem to lose traction.
(09:19):
But I saw an auction the other day. Quite a
few tanzanites come up, tansanit rings, etctera come up, but
what looked like reasonable prices in line again with I
don't know, peridose or they're sort of not big four gems.
What's going on with tanzanites.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Again, going back to the rarity. I love wearing something
that is rare, that has a story behind it. And
so with the with tanzanite, as you said, it's only
found in one space and one place on Earth, and
that's in tanzaniair they are paled as a one generation gemstone.
There's hardly anything left in the in the mines, So
(09:54):
again the tanzanites are probably undervalued for where they are now.
And again they've never been successfully synthesizer. So again this
is another great stone to be buying, genuinely rare and
genuinely rare.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Let's move further up. We've talked about a lot of
things that give jewelry gems their value. We've talked about rarity,
We've talked about condition, We've talked about we haven't really
talked about history and provedance. That's more antique jwelry. But
that's all important.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
But actually, do you know what I think for what
I do the bit like George and silver. So I'm
going to go back to the nineteen seventies stuff. So
early nineties, in seventies when gold was relatively cheap, I
hadn't had the Nixon effect their gold. You know, jewelers
were far more generous with their gold, and so you
get in the seventies really heavy gold pieces, and what's
(11:13):
happened now Because the gold price back in January twenty
twenty six hit five hundred and eighty nine US dollars
per Troy out everyone was like going, Oh my gosh,
what's going on? Blah blah blah blah blah. A lot
of the nineteen seventies early seventies stuff with any weight
got smelted. So then we're going back into that vicious
circle of there's not enough supply ye rarity value. So
(11:36):
the gold nineteen seventies pieces will go up in value,
et cetera, et cetera, and in the same grace for silver.
Silver again has gone up, not as exponentially high as gold,
but it has gone up. But again, the smelting process,
in my world is so painful and so heartbreaking. That
is craftsmanship gone. People cannot make or don't make pieces
(11:58):
like they really used because again the old antique jewelry
to even mid century, the jewelers made their own, made
their own implements to make the jewelry wise, so a
lot of it and nowadays a lot of it's machine made. Yeah,
So if you see like a pave diamond looks that's
all machine made, and five part I mean like less
(12:19):
dotted diamonds in a same ring, that's machine that's not handmade.
And so the handmade stuff is really valuable and those
techniques aren't being passed down because the jewelry world works
in a silo effect. No one talks to the right
hand or the left hand, and that's a real shame.
I think that's the one thing in the jewelry world
I think we could probably be better with and.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Today what you say about things being melted down, because
we often say when we're talking, when I've talked about
and letting inventage, surry etc. In the past, I've often
said that quite often you can buy pieces for not
much more than the value of the precious metal and
the gem itself. So it's very exciting you're getting that
great craftsmanship for free, but you're saying that in many
cases free and enough. No one wants a offsmanship, so
(13:00):
they will melt it down and separate the pieces.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Unfortunately. Yes, actually, because gold has dropped, I'm going to
be taking myself straight back up to the Birmingham Jewelry Quarter.
Any jewelry quarter in the UK is a great place
to go and start looking for jewelry. I would be
still while it's now low, what is it today? Today's
live spot price is about I talk to US dollars
four thousand and fifteen US dollars per Troy ounces about
(13:26):
three thousand pounds and that's really come down from its
heightened in January. So I'll be going to have a
look what's around. I'll be buying now.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And when you speak to all the jewelers, when you
go up to the jury quarters, et cetera, are there expectations
from them, given their decades of experience buying that mister,
where the gold price might go next?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yes, they think it's still going to go up again,
JP Morgan. I had a quick look at what their
forecasts are. They still think it's going to go well
over six six hundred and JP Morgan's conservative, They're not
like Goldman's. Goldmans always give far larger forecasts. So I
do think it's now going to go up, and I
think in this little dip is a really interesting time
(14:05):
to invest. And also because you'll go back to the
craftsmanship which you are would be buying into again the rarity,
there will be a secondary market I mean, and going
back to rarity. What the luxury houses were very interesting
at the moment.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Oh no, this is exactly what I was about to
ask you about when we got sidepacked on something else?
Is the brand, the Chanelle, Tiffany, Cardier, etc. When you're
buying a bit of jewelry, how much does that matter?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Okay? So I would say nineteen seventy is going back
to my normal. Nineteen seventy is the line Borgary nineteen
seventy is great place to buy into. And guess what
I was having a chat with the borgery guys down
on Bond Street last year or the year before. Anyway,
they have been busy buying back vintage pieces. So for example,
when Elizabeth Taylor's incredible trousseau went to auction, they were
(14:56):
in the market buying back. Now, if the luxury houses
are buying back their pieces from those times like Bankkeep
and Apples or Cartial Drifty, and they're all buying back
their vintage mid century pieces, that is another indicator of
a good investment, I personally think. So they'll be then
releasing it trip feeding it into the market.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
God it really is or back to the seventies, isn't it?
Do you know if Vinda story held its value well
in the nineteen seventies in that inflation re environment, I.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Think people found nineteen seventies jewelry really quite hideous. I
think they were really preferred an art deco and all
the rest of it. And again it comes down to
jewelry in the eye of the beholder. Really.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Okay, So here we are in the environment where we
are feeling a little bit back to the seventies in
terms of inflation, in terms of politics and all that
kind of thing. We've talked about the various gems that
you think of value at the moment, and we've looked
a little bit at the various eras. But if you
wanted to go out right now and by in your
view opinion only not advice, in your view, what would
(15:58):
be the thing to go out and buy now? It's
just a little extra of your portfolio. We're talking about,
not to your portfolio here, everybody, we're not suggesting you
go out but ten percent into gems. If you wanted
to have a time a little bit on the side
and also wear it gridally, what would you go out
and buy now?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Okay? So I fight with my husband who's in the industries,
not in the jewel industry, but in the financial industry.
And I would say gold is so much more fun
to wear, right, I don't want it in my portfolio.
I want to be able to have the physical thing,
and I also want to be able to wear it.
I don't want to have to wait for someone to
liquidate my shares, thank you very much, And I'm sure
(16:34):
lots of other people do love that. But I want
to be able to wear my pieces. I want to
look like a Christmas tree. I want to have a
trousseau of physical gold, physical silver where I know that
goodness forbid. I could just take the whole lot, and
I need a cash. I could go straight up to
the bullion guys and get it. So I would go
out now. While gold is low, silver is low, I
(16:56):
still think both gold and silver are going out. My
tips for you, if you've got deep pockets, I would
buy vintage bullgery. I would purely because I love bullgery.
I'd buy the big houses because they've held their value. First,
EBS is a great place to look. Then I would
go to antique shops. Grays Market is a fantastic if
you're in London. Grays Market silver vaults. Go to these places.
(17:18):
They're amazing. A lot of the secondhand kind of vintage
antique places have been closing down. So there was one
on the King's Road and they've just closed and that
that's been there for the years and years and years
and they just closed down. So again the whole market
there is scarcity. People is it's more difficult to get
your jewelry into jewelry. Of course you can go to
(17:39):
the emporium which is Barock Rocks. But I would go
have a look on first. AB's great place to look,
and I'd say go and buy now, because that's what
I'm going to be doing.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Everyone's going to be bidding against you, Emma.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I know at the auction houses. Oh there's a great
auction website which I will tell everyone to have a look,
and especially where called the sale Room dot And this
is a disaster for anyone, and I mean anyone who
who loves bidding, because the Sealroom is like a big umbrella.
It hosts every single auction website all of the UK,
(18:11):
sometimes in South African ones. It has European auction sites,
so you could then effectively buy and sometimes they've got
some American auction houses, but it just means that you'll
reach so you can type in I don't know, nineteen
seventy seven, Bulgary, and then you can start watching it
and they'll give you a lot. So let's give me
my tips. It's a disaster be able to buy anything.
(18:34):
So Salum dot com, seerum dot com. Okay, it's amazing,
it's amazing, look it up.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Thank you very much, Emma. We really enjoyed having you on.
Thanks so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Thank you very much. Moren an absolute pleasure, and probably
weekly went totally off piece, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
That's how it works. Thanks for listening to this weeks
marrin talk to your money. If you like us, your rate,
review and subscribe whereever you listen to podcasts, or if
you're Georg, follow me and John on ex or Twitter
at Marinus w and John Underscore step Back. This episode
was produced by Some Society and Jennifer Seeley's sound designed
by Blake Maples and Aaron Casper. Questions and comments on
this show and all our shows are always welcome. Get
(19:12):
in touch, let us know about your favorite gems. I'll
show emails. Merrimaney at Bloomberg dot net.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome to Marin Talk
Your Money, the personal finance edition of Merin Talk's Money.
In these bonus podcasts, we talk about the best strategies
for making the most of your money. I'm Marin Sumset,
(00:22):
web Editor at Large for Bloomberg UK Money, and in
this episode we're going to talk about it slightly less
conventional investment choice. Fine jewelry, vintage jewelry, antique jewelry, however
you want to talk about it, Jewelry that you are
not buying new now the time of market volatility and
ongoing inflation. Jewelry is not only held as value, but
in many cases it has appreciated more than many cases nicely.
(00:44):
So if you are thinking about this in terms of
real assets, how might it actually fit into your wider portfolio?
With me today is Emma Discibil, a former banker who's
now the director of Baroque Rocks, a company which specializes
in vintage jewelry, which is a keen eye for there's stuff,
and that has led to partnerships with various brands, including
fashion retailer Jigsaw and the label Paul Smith. Along the Way.
(01:07):
Welcome to Merin talks money.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Oh, it's wonderful, wonderful to be with you, meren.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Listen, let's just start back.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Tell it.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Tell me a little bit about what you do and
the type of jewelry that you are interested in and
that you sell.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Okay, so I sell predominantly vintage jewelry, and from those
nineteen sixties to early two thousand's vintage is quite interesting.
It's actually fifteen years old, the technical term for vintage.
But it's fine vintage jewelry, which has intrinsic value effectively.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, so when you say fine vintage jewelry, what you
mean is jewelry with actual gems and pressures, metals.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It's exactly. It's not costume jewelry. So it's anything from
nine carrot to fourteen character eighteen carrot. I don't go
any really higher than eighteen charrot because it just yeah,
it's just there's not really the marketplace for that. But
it's very much well. I love it because it's it's
got intrinsic value. It's also really funky, it's very cool. So, yes,
you've got your intrinsic metal value. You've got real gemstones
(02:08):
in there, which also have another value. And they're sustainable.
I think the second hand market is a bit like
driving a car off a fore cord. You know, the
moment you've driven a car, brand new car, it loses
some of its value, but there's still your secondary market.
And I think that's the same thing for Vince's jewelry.
There's very much this big secondary market.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, okay, So looking back at the jewelry before the
period when you're interested in buying jury, there are various
things that you can't really get anymore. There's old cut diamonds.
You sometimes see it auction, et cetera. I'm quite interested
in those because diamonds in particular, when you look at
the modern diamond world, do you think, why on earth
(02:49):
would you go into a shop and buy a piece
of diamond jewelry when we know that you that man
made diamonds are identical exactly, And so the value of
modern diamond jewelry like a little levy. But older diamond
jewelry maybe holds its value.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It very much does earn, especially old minecut diamonds. No
two are the same, and then a lot of them
were recut again in the twentieth century. So basically surviving
old mind cuts are actually becoming scarceer, so again, so
that's why the value's gone up.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
But they don't. But they don't have quite the same
sparkle as a modern cut diamond.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
No, they really don't. They really don't. But I'm real traditionalists,
so I don't touch lab growns. I will not touch them.
And that's ridiculous really, because chemically they have.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
They are exactly the same.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
They are exactly the same, but one is grown in
a test tube and the other one comes from the earth.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
You might not touch them, and other jewelers might not
touch them, but nonetheless, it makes a diamond worthless, doesn't it.
A mind diamond is still worthless because of the existence
of lab grown dimonies. Someone told me about a decade
ago that if you were going to buy a diamond,
with the rise of lab grown diamonds, you should always
buy a flawed diamond or a colored diamond, which may
be one of the reasons why champagne diamonds, etcetera. Took
(04:05):
off a few years back.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Exactly they did, and actually, really the only diamonds that
have held their value recently are the fancy colored diamonds, pinks,
the blues, and they really are genuinely rare. I think
we're going back to the lab growths. There's no resale
market for a lab growner, So I'm going to go
back to my emotional earlier argument of it was formed
billions of years ago versus back in a laboratory.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah. The key point is that a labyrin diamond is
never going to be an investment, but its existence devalues
your investment in mind diamonds.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Depends on when your diamond was. If it's an old mindcots,
then that's value. Yeah, it has to be. Sadly, it has.
I mean the prices are down fifty twenty percent, so yes,
you're right.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah, all right, let's talk about other gemsy other gems?
What is popular? What is fashion?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Mom?
Speaker 1 (04:54):
When I bought something the other day, I bought a
zircon ring. Everyone said to me, why would you buy
a man made them? Because people hear zircon and they hear.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
But actually, this is a beautiful gem. But I think
it's really undervalued because no one recognizes it as being
the equivalent of.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
A Selfhi, no, exactly, So zircons. I love a zircon.
I'll talk about the blue one. So the blue circons
really do rival the sapphires, and they are a fraction
of the cost. Obviously, because saphars again have going back
to dimons, diamonds, sapphars, emeralds, and rubies. With a big
four and those are the big four, then everyone else
(05:32):
is jostling for the next place. But within the jewelry world,
you can no longer talk about the big four. You
have to talk about all gemstones. But I'm still going
to talk about the big four.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Hang on, why aren't you allowed to talk about the
big four?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
I think there are We can't call them the big
four anymore. You have, okay, just put them into a
slightly bigger bucket with everyone else, but zircons. If I've
got a chipped diamond in there, for example, sometimes I'll
replace it with a white circon, which again right balls
for diamonds. For they're brilliant blue circons. They're vastly undervalued,
(06:05):
So there I'd say they are a great investments. I
am going to if I may just take us onto
going back to the big four. Emeralds and emeralds are
part of the beryl family, and the reason I wanted
to talk about beryls are because going back to undervalued
gemstones are aquamarines and morganites, because morganites and aquamarines are
(06:27):
not an emerald, but they are in the same again
chemical formula, chemical makeup the same family. But again they
haven't had the marketing, they haven't had the history, they
haven't had the folklore that an emerald has enjoyed. For example,
because they were found discovered in nineteen ten, they don't
have the same market value.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Is it also about Is it also about rarity? It
is an emerald, what we think of as an emerald
and nice green color, etc. Is that more rare than
an ach marine or a morganite, Because I think one
of the big drivers here is rarity. No, really not no, So.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
They're really rare. They are rare, but they just haven't
had the marketing around them. And that's why I always say,
actually have a look at when you're if you're buying jewelry,
look at the morganites, look at the acromarines. And what's
really interesting going back to diamonds, because a diamond market
has fallen so significantly, a lot of investors are pivoting
now to the colored gemstone market, and that's been very
(07:24):
interesting and people are asking me for different colored stones,
et cetera, et cetera. Another fascinating undervalued gemstone, in my opinion,
is a spinell. Now, I don't know if you know
what a spinella.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I don't visit you, okay.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So spanell is really exciting. So in so, when King
Charles had his coronation back in twenty twenty three, he
wore out of Westminster Abbey, he literally strutted off wearing
the black Prince's ruby in the Imperial straight crown. Right
apart from that ruby in the State crown that hangs
(08:00):
just above the visible just above the cross, is not
a ruby. It's a spinel. It's still referred to as
a ruby, okay.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And is it the same chemical makeup?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Is it no different, totally different gemstone? It's and it's
found from Burma. But basically for centuries, miners didn't distinguish
between the two, between a ruby or a spanel. They
couldn't tell the difference. Then they went into the labs
where they were properly assessed and discovered that they're very different.
Why they're compelling now is that there's no lab grown disruption.
(08:34):
They're very underpriced equivalent to rubies and auction prices again,
the collector base of growing and the color range, just
like diamonds, is quite large.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Burmese rubies used to be all the raids, right. Is
it possible that quite quite a few of the things
that were flagged as Burmese rubies are actually spinels?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
I would say they probably are one hundred percent yeap interesting.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Okay, Here's another gem that I've always been interested in,
which is relatively new one. I remember when the first
marketing campaign for it started about twenty years ago, which
is tanzanite, which apparently only comes from one mine at
the bottom of Kilimanjaro, et cetera. There is this huge
Marilani Hill exactly huge marketing campaign around it about twenty
years ago, and they then they seem to lose traction.
(09:19):
But I saw an auction the other day. Quite a
few tanzanites come up, tansanit rings, etctera come up, but
what looked like reasonable prices in line again with I
don't know, peridose or they're sort of not big four gems.
What's going on with tanzanites.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Again, going back to the rarity. I love wearing something
that is rare, that has a story behind it. And
so with the with tanzanite, as you said, it's only
found in one space and one place on Earth, and
that's in tanzaniair they are paled as a one generation gemstone.
There's hardly anything left in the in the mines, So
(09:54):
again the tanzanites are probably undervalued for where they are now.
And again they've never been successfully synthesizer. So again this
is another great stone to be buying, genuinely rare and
genuinely rare.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Let's move further up. We've talked about a lot of
things that give jewelry gems their value. We've talked about rarity,
We've talked about condition, We've talked about we haven't really
talked about history and provedance. That's more antique jwelry. But
that's all important.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
But actually, do you know what I think for what
I do the bit like George and silver. So I'm
going to go back to the nineteen seventies stuff. So
early nineties, in seventies when gold was relatively cheap, I
hadn't had the Nixon effect their gold. You know, jewelers
were far more generous with their gold, and so you
get in the seventies really heavy gold pieces, and what's
(11:13):
happened now Because the gold price back in January twenty
twenty six hit five hundred and eighty nine US dollars
per Troy out everyone was like going, Oh my gosh,
what's going on? Blah blah blah blah blah. A lot
of the nineteen seventies early seventies stuff with any weight
got smelted. So then we're going back into that vicious
circle of there's not enough supply ye rarity value. So
(11:36):
the gold nineteen seventies pieces will go up in value,
et cetera, et cetera, and in the same grace for silver.
Silver again has gone up, not as exponentially high as gold,
but it has gone up. But again, the smelting process,
in my world is so painful and so heartbreaking. That
is craftsmanship gone. People cannot make or don't make pieces
(11:58):
like they really used because again the old antique jewelry
to even mid century, the jewelers made their own, made
their own implements to make the jewelry wise, so a
lot of it and nowadays a lot of it's machine made. Yeah,
So if you see like a pave diamond looks that's
all machine made, and five part I mean like less
(12:19):
dotted diamonds in a same ring, that's machine that's not handmade.
And so the handmade stuff is really valuable and those
techniques aren't being passed down because the jewelry world works
in a silo effect. No one talks to the right
hand or the left hand, and that's a real shame.
I think that's the one thing in the jewelry world
I think we could probably be better with and.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Today what you say about things being melted down, because
we often say when we're talking, when I've talked about
and letting inventage, surry etc. In the past, I've often
said that quite often you can buy pieces for not
much more than the value of the precious metal and
the gem itself. So it's very exciting you're getting that
great craftsmanship for free, but you're saying that in many
cases free and enough. No one wants a offsmanship, so
(13:00):
they will melt it down and separate the pieces.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Unfortunately. Yes, actually, because gold has dropped, I'm going to
be taking myself straight back up to the Birmingham Jewelry Quarter.
Any jewelry quarter in the UK is a great place
to go and start looking for jewelry. I would be
still while it's now low, what is it today? Today's
live spot price is about I talk to US dollars
four thousand and fifteen US dollars per Troy ounces about
(13:26):
three thousand pounds and that's really come down from its
heightened in January. So I'll be going to have a
look what's around. I'll be buying now.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And when you speak to all the jewelers, when you
go up to the jury quarters, et cetera, are there expectations
from them, given their decades of experience buying that mister,
where the gold price might go next?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yes, they think it's still going to go up again,
JP Morgan. I had a quick look at what their
forecasts are. They still think it's going to go well
over six six hundred and JP Morgan's conservative, They're not
like Goldman's. Goldmans always give far larger forecasts. So I
do think it's now going to go up, and I
think in this little dip is a really interesting time
(14:05):
to invest. And also because you'll go back to the
craftsmanship which you are would be buying into again the rarity,
there will be a secondary market I mean, and going
back to rarity. What the luxury houses were very interesting
at the moment.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Oh no, this is exactly what I was about to
ask you about when we got sidepacked on something else?
Is the brand, the Chanelle, Tiffany, Cardier, etc. When you're
buying a bit of jewelry, how much does that matter?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Okay? So I would say nineteen seventy is going back
to my normal. Nineteen seventy is the line Borgary nineteen
seventy is great place to buy into. And guess what
I was having a chat with the borgery guys down
on Bond Street last year or the year before. Anyway,
they have been busy buying back vintage pieces. So for example,
when Elizabeth Taylor's incredible trousseau went to auction, they were
(14:56):
in the market buying back. Now, if the luxury houses
are buying back their pieces from those times like Bankkeep
and Apples or Cartial Drifty, and they're all buying back
their vintage mid century pieces, that is another indicator of
a good investment, I personally think. So they'll be then
releasing it trip feeding it into the market.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
God it really is or back to the seventies, isn't it?
Do you know if Vinda story held its value well
in the nineteen seventies in that inflation re environment, I.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Think people found nineteen seventies jewelry really quite hideous. I
think they were really preferred an art deco and all
the rest of it. And again it comes down to
jewelry in the eye of the beholder. Really.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Okay, So here we are in the environment where we
are feeling a little bit back to the seventies in
terms of inflation, in terms of politics and all that
kind of thing. We've talked about the various gems that
you think of value at the moment, and we've looked
a little bit at the various eras. But if you
wanted to go out right now and by in your
view opinion only not advice, in your view, what would
(15:58):
be the thing to go out and buy now? It's
just a little extra of your portfolio. We're talking about,
not to your portfolio here, everybody, we're not suggesting you
go out but ten percent into gems. If you wanted
to have a time a little bit on the side
and also wear it gridally, what would you go out
and buy now?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Okay? So I fight with my husband who's in the industries,
not in the jewel industry, but in the financial industry.
And I would say gold is so much more fun
to wear, right, I don't want it in my portfolio.
I want to be able to have the physical thing,
and I also want to be able to wear it.
I don't want to have to wait for someone to
liquidate my shares, thank you very much, And I'm sure
(16:34):
lots of other people do love that. But I want
to be able to wear my pieces. I want to
look like a Christmas tree. I want to have a
trousseau of physical gold, physical silver where I know that
goodness forbid. I could just take the whole lot, and
I need a cash. I could go straight up to
the bullion guys and get it. So I would go
out now. While gold is low, silver is low, I
(16:56):
still think both gold and silver are going out. My
tips for you, if you've got deep pockets, I would
buy vintage bullgery. I would purely because I love bullgery.
I'd buy the big houses because they've held their value. First,
EBS is a great place to look. Then I would
go to antique shops. Grays Market is a fantastic if
you're in London. Grays Market silver vaults. Go to these places.
(17:18):
They're amazing. A lot of the secondhand kind of vintage
antique places have been closing down. So there was one
on the King's Road and they've just closed and that
that's been there for the years and years and years
and they just closed down. So again the whole market
there is scarcity. People is it's more difficult to get
your jewelry into jewelry. Of course you can go to
(17:39):
the emporium which is Barock Rocks. But I would go
have a look on first. AB's great place to look,
and I'd say go and buy now, because that's what
I'm going to be doing.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Everyone's going to be bidding against you, Emma.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I know at the auction houses. Oh there's a great
auction website which I will tell everyone to have a look,
and especially where called the sale Room dot And this
is a disaster for anyone, and I mean anyone who
who loves bidding, because the Sealroom is like a big umbrella.
It hosts every single auction website all of the UK,
(18:11):
sometimes in South African ones. It has European auction sites,
so you could then effectively buy and sometimes they've got
some American auction houses, but it just means that you'll
reach so you can type in I don't know, nineteen
seventy seven, Bulgary, and then you can start watching it
and they'll give you a lot. So let's give me
my tips. It's a disaster be able to buy anything.
(18:34):
So Salum dot com, seerum dot com. Okay, it's amazing,
it's amazing, look it up.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Thank you very much, Emma. We really enjoyed having you on.
Thanks so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Thank you very much. Moren an absolute pleasure, and probably
weekly went totally off piece, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
That's how it works. Thanks for listening to this weeks
marrin talk to your money. If you like us, your rate,
review and subscribe whereever you listen to podcasts, or if
you're Georg, follow me and John on ex or Twitter
at Marinus w and John Underscore step Back. This episode
was produced by Some Society and Jennifer Seeley's sound designed
by Blake Maples and Aaron Casper. Questions and comments on
this show and all our shows are always welcome. Get
(19:12):
in touch, let us know about your favorite gems. I'll
show emails. Merrimaney at Bloomberg dot net.
Host
Merryn Somerset Webb
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