November 17, 2025 • 40 mins
For years, investigators and the public were divided: was Long Island dealing with one serial killer or two? In this episode we reveal how the different dump sites, conflicting methods, and even a bitter public feud between Suffolk County's police commissioner and district attorney created chaos that may have allowed LISK to keep hunting.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
New episodes are released weekly absolutely free, but you can
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(00:27):
Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer. The views and opinions
expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals
participating in the podcast and do not reflect those of
Tenderfoot TV or iHeartMedia. This podcast contains subject matter which
may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
In this episode, we'll be talking about these victims in
very graphic terms. These details are crucial for proving the
mistakes and missed opportunities that could have led to the
perpetrators capture sooner. These individuals deserve to be remembered not
by the details of their deaths, but by the fullness
of their lives. They are Shannon Gilbert Green, Brainerd Barnes,
(01:12):
Megan Waterman, Melissa Bartholemy Amber, Lyn Costello, Jessica Taylor, Valerie Mack,
Karen Viergatta, Asian Doe, Tanya, Denise Jackson and Tatiana. Marie dikes.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Right, yeah, let's try and walk it.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
So basically she runs this way.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
This is tough. Hold on, I gotta read in my boot.
Speaker 6 (01:50):
This is really what it must have been like, as.
Speaker 7 (01:53):
All just reads.
Speaker 5 (01:55):
Lit'tuf hurts too ow.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Rachel and I were following Shannon Gilbert's last known path
through the treacherous Oak Beach marsh. While the Seffa County
EPD concluded that Shannon died from drowning, there were still
many who refused to accept this conclusion.
Speaker 8 (02:15):
Shannon Gilbert vanished after making a panic nine one one call.
Speaker 9 (02:19):
Police believe Gilbert was simply high and paranoid when she
ran into that march and drowned.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
But not everyone accepts that Gilbert died accidentally.
Speaker 10 (02:27):
There is no evidence whatsoever that Shannon Gilbert died a
natural death.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
One thing was obvious. Walking through that same cold marsh,
thick with razor sharp reeds, was brutally challenging. You see
twice a day seawater floods of this marsh. Sometimes it
feels like you're walking on a soggy trampling. Other times
you're walking through mud that's like quicksand only colder, and
as surprising is it sounds, you can drown in just
(02:55):
three feet of marsh. This whole thing is water.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
If you find the wrong place, your foot's going straight through.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
It used to be worse. While hypothermia may have played
a role in Shannon's death, skeptics were quick to note
that Shannon disappeared in May, when the temperatures were in
the fifties. But if you've spent any time at the beach,
you know those pre dawn hours when the wind comes
off the ocean could be freezing cold. We also had
boots and gloves and jackets that knew exactly where we
(03:27):
were going. Shannon, on the other hand, ran into the
marsh in a panic, heading toward the bright lights of
Ocean Parkway about a quarter mile away.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
Jeez, it just keeps getting worse.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Ocean Parkway is right there, it's right there.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
Ow.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Oh my god, I'm stuck.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
But it didn't matter how close we were, because blocking
our exit to the highway was a five foot high
way up of vines covered in thorns.
Speaker 9 (04:02):
All right, I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
We're not going to get into there. Finally we found
a hole made by police to get to Shannon. We
walked through the path that they cut to get from
that road out to here. It was ridiculous.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
You puldn't have made it.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
For someone barefoot and barely clothed like Shannon. It would
have been nearly impossible to get to Ocean Parkway, just
as impossible as it would have been for someone to
carry a body through that marsh.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
I'm hoping there's something left. There was a white cross before.
Speaker 7 (04:45):
Guys, do you find it?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (04:49):
Can you imagine ending up here.
Speaker 9 (04:54):
So sad?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Seeing Shannon's final resting place about one hundred feet back
from that wall of vines, it made logical sense as
she could have ended up here her body exhausted, her
skin and closed water logged, the freezing cold, making her
drowsy as hypothermia sets him, until finally she passes out
(05:18):
and drowns just a few feet of water. But what
didn't make sense and is so hard to reconcile, is
that Shannon Gilbert, a sex worker who died accidentally in
Oak Beach, had somehow led police to the bodies of
so many other sex workers over nine miles away wall
had been murdered, suggesting what can only be one of
(05:42):
the most shocking coincidences in all of true crime. I'm
Josh Seamen, and this is monster hunting the Long Island
cyrial killer.
Speaker 11 (06:16):
Shannon Gilbert.
Speaker 12 (06:18):
It was her disappearance that led to the discovery of
bodies along Ocean Parkway.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Shannon Gilbert went missing.
Speaker 6 (06:24):
This is Shannon Gilbert.
Speaker 9 (06:25):
She vanished, Shannon Gilbert of Jersey City. And as you
just heard police say, it could be weeks before either one.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
As Rachel and I had come to learn, the overwhelming
mystery of Shannon's death had often undermined the hunt for
the Long Island serial killer. While Shannon had become the
face of this case, the ten victims found along Ocean Parkway,
who were, without a doubt murdered, never got that same
level of media attention. Shannon's death made for TV headlines
(06:52):
of her mother, Mary Gilbert, had hijacked the narrative, including
a number of films that fictionalized Mary's search justice.
Speaker 9 (07:01):
How can you say Shan is not connected.
Speaker 11 (07:03):
She was last seen three miles from the other girls.
Speaker 9 (07:05):
She was in her twenties, just like them. She was small,
just like them.
Speaker 11 (07:09):
She was on craigs, just like them.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And at times this media attention turned into bizarre spectacle,
including a press conference held at Shannon's funeral, led by
the family's lawyer.
Speaker 10 (07:22):
Shannon, I hear you speaking to your murderer, murderer, I
hope you are listening. Murderer, I hope you are listening.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
But lost in the theatrics is an important detail that
many have overlooked. Shannon disappeared on May one, twenty ten.
Less than one month later, in June, Lisk abducted Megan Waterman.
Four months later, he abducted Amberlyn Costello. In just the
four months after Shannon disappeared, Lisk had tragically killed two women,
(08:00):
egging the question if Suffolk County had taken Shannon's case
more seriously, if they had publicized her disappearance within weeks
rather than months, would Lisk have read about it, Would
it have deterred him? And would Megan and Amber still
be with us?
Speaker 13 (08:16):
I would almost guarantee you he's probably watching every move
the police makes on CNN or the local news station.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
But there's something else to consider. List went to Gilgo
Beach not once, but twice to discard these victims, while
just nine miles away Shannon's family. The months later, Suffolk
County pd we're all searching out beach. It's even possible
that police passed that green avalanche pulled over an ocean parkway.
(08:47):
But we also know that Lisk researched and he studied.
He knew going back to Gilgo Beach was risky, and
yet he did it anyway, knowing full well. That exact
same mistake is what led to the capture of Long
Island's other notorious serial murderer, Joel Rifkin, back in nineteen
ninety three.
Speaker 8 (09:07):
Police are investigating at least seventeen murders.
Speaker 12 (09:10):
In connection with thirty four year old Joel Rifkin after
what started as a routine traffic stop.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
There in the arrest, a strong older came from the
back of the vehicle. The troopers investigated and discovered.
Speaker 10 (09:20):
The body of the white female wrapped in a talk.
Speaker 9 (09:24):
Police say he was on his way to dispose of
the body when state troopers tried to pull him over
the Farmingdale.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
So why would list take such an enormous risk. Was
it that thrill of being so close to police proving
he was that much smarter, or that compulsion because Gilgo
was special because eight of his victims were already there
or maybe he didn't think he had to go elsewhere
because of all the time and effort he had spent
(09:51):
convincing law enforcement to look in a different dumping ground
on the other side of Long Island, in the desolate
woods of Manorville.
Speaker 12 (10:02):
Suffolk, police call her Jane Doe number six. Her torso
was found in Manorville in two thousand.
Speaker 14 (10:08):
Hunters found a black plastic bag that had tape all
around it.
Speaker 15 (10:13):
They opened up that bag and they found human remains.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
She was known only as Jane Doe number six, and
in November of two thousand, her remains were found on
a hunting trail. A bird dog had alerted three pheasant
hunters to a bag found with duct tap. Inside was
a torso and another bag with her limbs. One leg
was cut just above the mid calf, suggesting the killer
(10:39):
had removed a tattoo to prevent her identification. Eleven years later,
police discovered the rest of Jane Doe number six over
forty miles away on Gilgo Beach.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Jane Doe number six, whose head, hands, and right foot
were recovered along the Ocean Parkway, was linked by DNA
to a torso discovered in Manaville.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
In twenty twenty two, investigators were able to give back
to Jane Doe number six the one thing her killer
could never take away her name.
Speaker 11 (11:14):
Today, we are announcing that Jane Doe number six has
been positively identified as Valerie Mac. With advances in DNA technology,
a genealogy profile was established. This led HOMSNG investigators to
areas of New Jersey. Valerie Max identification represents progress in
this investigation, but there is much work left to do.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Valerie Lynn Fulton had been adopted by the loving Mac
family of New Jersey, but as an adult she bounced
back and forth between Atlantic City and Philadelphia, engaging in
sex work to feed the disease of addiction. We also
know that Valerie left behind a sun whose name she
had tattooed on her calf, but when she vanished in
two thousand, police were used to file a missing person's report,
(12:02):
making it that much harder to identify her remains when
they were first found in Manorvild.
Speaker 16 (12:10):
All right, so we're crossing thee right now. This is
the middle of the pine barrens, hold on of nothing,
and this is our dump side over here.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
In twenty fifteen, Timothy Bulger, a reporter for the Long
Island Press brought us to Manorville to show us the spot.
Run July twenty third, two thousand and three, residents discovered
a second victim, Jessica Taylor, just three years after Jane
Doe Number six aka Valerie Mack.
Speaker 16 (12:45):
So this is the access road that the killer came
down to dumper body, right, so.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
You kind of have to know where you're going.
Speaker 16 (12:54):
Yeah, for the killer who have gotten to this place,
you would have had to go down a couple of
roads and right on your left ears where we found
Jessica Taylor.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Tonight's Suffa County Police have a murder mystery on their hands.
Police ay a Manorville woman walking her dog came across
the body. The partially decomposed body had been decapitated and
both hands were amputated.
Speaker 9 (13:16):
Police say the victim also had a tattoo on her back.
Anyone with information is asked to contact the Suffolk County
of Police.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Twenty year old Jessica Taylor, a native of Poughkeepsie, was
last seen in midtown Manhattan somewhere around July nineteenth, two
thousand and three. According to recent court documents, Jessica called
her mother on July twenty first, to arrange a visit
for her mother's birthday. Sadly, Jessica never made it home.
Less than two hours later her final cell phone activity
(13:47):
so it's an outgoing call. At ten twenty two pm.
Investigators believed that Jessica had been picked up somewhere around
the Port Authority bus terminal. Four days later, he remains
were found in Manerville, but unlike Valerie Mack, Jessica was
found out in the open.
Speaker 16 (14:11):
This is where she was found laying on top of
a piece of plastic.
Speaker 13 (14:17):
A.
Speaker 16 (14:17):
Cops had tried to ida here by releasing a photo
of her tattoo, which had been sliced up by the killer.
He tried to gouge it out so much they had
to push the skin together to try and read it. Eventually,
cops were able to piece together that I said Remy's Angel.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Having recognized the tattoo, the Washington DC detective suspected the
missing woman was Jessica Taylor and that Remy was her pimp,
Khalil White. Back in two thousand and three, when a
dismembered remains of Valerie and Jessica were first found in Manerville,
the police believed they were dealing with is one killer
(14:58):
dubbed the Manaville Butcher. But later when the remains were
also found on Ocean Parkway alongside the Gilgo four who
were found intact, nobody knew what to think.
Speaker 16 (15:10):
That's definitely what's interesting, the effort that the killer talk
to try and hide Jessica Taylor's identity. If you look
at the four women in Go Go Beach, they were intact.
There was no effort to hide their identity. It doesn't
make a whole lot of logical sense.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And this confusion over victims both found in Manorville and
then Gilgo Beach victims who were found dismembered next to
other victims found intact, which suggested two different modus operandi
or two killers, would lead to one of the most
enduring mysteries of the killing season.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
How do the missing remains of Jessica Taylor and Jane
do number six, first found in Manorville, suddenly end up
more than eight years later and over forty miles away
as part of the carnage of Go Go Beach.
Speaker 14 (16:10):
Suffix DA revealed new information today about the discovery of
bodies along Ocean Parkway.
Speaker 9 (16:16):
VOTA announced that the fifth person found, identified as Jessica Taylor,
does not appear to be linked with the other four.
Speaker 12 (16:23):
Who is responsible for dismembering the woman and discarding their
body parts? Across Suffolk County?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
That was the question on everyone's mind, Who is responsible
and where the Manorville butcher and the Long Island serial
killer to separate killers or possibly the same killer.
Speaker 13 (16:43):
The killer or killers of Jane Doe, number six and
Miss Taylor went to extraordinary lengths to prevent the victims
from being identified. As disturbing as that is, there is
no evidence that all of these remains are that of
a single killeth.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
These different mos some victims found dismembered while others found intact.
The different dumping grounds the years in between would all
spark a frenzied debate over one serial killer verse two,
leading to a surreal press conference where police Chief Dormer
and da Spoda openly contradicted each other.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
The facts of the case indicate one serial killer.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
FIGHT very very much disagree with that theory.
Speaker 13 (17:27):
I would never even discuss this publicly except I think
that the facts do not bear out a single kill
a theory at all.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
But as Robert Kolker, the author of Lost Girls, reveals
there was far more to this dysfunction than just the
number of serial killers.
Speaker 17 (17:48):
The Subakind Police Department has a very controversial history. What
happens in the police force is really a function of
what happens politically in Long Island, and you had a
DA who was at odds with the commissioner because they're
from separate political factions, and they worried openly about it.
Speaker 14 (18:04):
In another bizarre twist in the Gilgo Beach homicide saga,
suffix Za Tom.
Speaker 7 (18:09):
Spoda has attacked Sufi Police Commissioner Richard Dormer's who done
it theories.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Suffic Da Thoms Boda says police now believe they're hunting
three killers, not one.
Speaker 14 (18:18):
Boda says they now may be looking for four different
killers and at least one dump bodies the Long Ocean Parkway.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
Now.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
In truth, very few police departments have the investigative skills
to handle one serial killer case, let alone two serial
killers or even three or now four, Nor do they
have the expertise to manage the overwhelming media attention. I
mean she do you ever have a police chief publicly
saying this?
Speaker 18 (18:48):
Should people be scared?
Speaker 7 (18:49):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (18:50):
No, I don't think. No, I don't want anybody to
think that we have a Jack the Ripper running around
selfa county with blood dripping from a knife.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
But then again, this isn't the first time police have
had to deal with more than one serial killer on
Long Island. From nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety three,
there were in fact two active serial killers operating on
Long Island at the same time, that being Joel Rifkin,
the unemployed landscaper who confessed to killing seventeen sex workers,
(19:20):
and Robert Shulman, opposed to worker who's convicted of killing
five sex workers.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Forty two year old Robert Shulman has been charged with
murdering and dismembering two prostitutes whose bodies were found in
Suffolk County.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
It appears coincidental at this time that mister Rifkin was
operating at the same time as mister Shulman was engaged
in similar activity, and now considering lists twenty three year reign,
there were three zero murderers, begging the question what is
it about Long Island that breeds such malevolence? Again, here's
(19:57):
Robert Kolker.
Speaker 17 (19:58):
I think in Long Island's case, the explanation everybody turns
to is that it's this really densely populated area that's
right on top of New York City, but everybody's seat
of jammed in commuting every day. Here, everybody's sumping up
against one another, and it's like living in a pressure cooker.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
In the early days of the Gilgo Beach case, some
detectives even questioned if any of the ten bodies could
be additional victims of Rifkin ra Schulman. Of course, the
one agency with the experience to help answer those questions
was the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit, recently memorialized in David
Fincher's Mind Hunter.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
When we know who the criminal is, we can understand
what's set him off.
Speaker 16 (20:41):
The question is not only why did the killer do it,
but why did the killer do.
Speaker 9 (20:45):
It this way?
Speaker 16 (20:47):
We are now talking about.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Psychology. In twenty eleven, the FBI initially consulted on the
Gilg case, primarily gathering cell phone data while agents in
the Behavioral Analysis Unit began developing a profile of Lisk.
But once the newly appointed police chief, James Burke, took
over in January of twenty twelve, he and the DA
(21:12):
infamously kicked the FBI off the case, leaving the data
analysis half finished and lists profile in complete. We now
know that Berke and Spuda we're trying to keep the
Feds at arm's length.
Speaker 10 (21:26):
It is the law that the federal authorities should be
in this case. Apparently they'd been bopped out and told
to stay away by Suffolk County.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Whether a complete profile of Lisk would have changed the
course of the investigation remains to be seen, but one
thing is for sure. Suffolk County's lack of expertise led
to a cloud of confusion that had stymied the investigation,
a confusion that only grew more baffling with the discovery
of the last victims found on Ocean Parkway, including the
(22:00):
coldest case of them all, Fire Island. Jane Doe.
Speaker 10 (22:04):
Beach combers made a gruesome discovery on Fire Island. Officials
say two legs wrapped that a plastic bag were found
last night.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
On April twentieth, nineteen ninety six, two brothers walking along
a beach discovered a plastic bag containing the remains of
an unidentified woman. It's presumed the plastic bag was thrown
into the water from another location and carried there by
the tides. Fifteen years later, Fire Island Jane Doe's skull
was recovered on Ocean Parkway, just over the county line
(22:34):
in Nassau County.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
The search for more human remains extended into Nassau County. Today, searchers,
some on horseback, would find a skull near Oyster Bay Park.
Speaker 12 (22:45):
DNA proves that skull belongs to the same woman whose
legs were found wrapped in plastic back in nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
In twenty twenty two, the Gilgo Beach Task Force teamed
with Authorn, the fame forensic genomics company specializing in cold cases,
in hopes of creating a new profile for this victim.
Speaker 9 (23:06):
For twenty seven years, she was known only as Fire
Island Jane Doe. Today her true name.
Speaker 15 (23:14):
We were able to identify Fire Island Jane Doe as
Karen Virgatta.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
The last time Dominic Virgatta heard from his daughter Karen
was on Valentine's Day nineteen ninety six, when she called
to wish him a happy birthday. After months of not
hearing from Karen, Dominic tried to file a missing person's report,
but the NYPD refused. In nineteen ninety seven, the Suffolk
County Detective revealed that a woman's body had been found,
(23:40):
but her degraded DNA didn't match his. Over the ensuing years,
the family had even hired a private investigator, but all
to no avail. Dominic Vigotta died in December of twenty
twenty two, just seven months before Karen had finally been identified.
Speaker 10 (23:58):
Forgotta was thirty four and living in Manhattan when she
vanished on Valentine's Day twenty seven years ago.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
With the discovery of caarms remains along Ocean Parkway, investigators
now believe that the killer or killers had been operating
since at least nineteen ninety six, when she was first
found in Fire Island. More So, Fire Island was in
Suffolk County, but her other remains were found in Nassau County,
suggesting the killer may have been trying to confuse law enforcement.
(24:26):
Yet as baffling as all this sounds, there was at
least some logic in the victimology, that being petite female
sex workers, That was until police uncovered the next victim.
Speaker 12 (24:38):
One male body was found among the ten. Police also
revealed that he may have been killed between five and
ten years ago.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
The unidentified Asian Male was estimated between the ages of
seventeen and twenty three years old at the time of
his debt.
Speaker 18 (24:54):
When Asian Doe was first discovered on April fourth, twenty eleven,
this person was colloquially known as Asian Male.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Sarah Wyman, an author and journalist, has been investigating Asian
doe remains. Is one of the cases most significant mysteries.
Speaker 18 (25:12):
Biologically, they were a signe mail at birth, but Asian
Doe was found with clothing that we would identify with women,
like panties and abroad, so Asian Doe might have identified
as trans.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
He was wearing women's clothing, and I think that's significant.
Speaker 18 (25:31):
Suffolk County thinks that Asian Doe may have been a
sex worker in New York City. Ultimately, there's still so
much we don't know. We don't know who their family
members are. We don't know if they came over from China,
because it's believed that they were of Han Chinese descent,
or if they were born in North America and ended
up in New York.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Unlike any of the other victims found along Ocean Parkway,
Asian Doe reportedly died from blunt for or trauma to
the head. At the time, detectives theorized that the differing
mo suggested the killer might have felt duped and bloodgoned
Asian Doe in a fit of rage, and while newly
released information might suggest a different motive, one that we'll
(26:16):
discuss in greater detail later, Asian Doe remains unidentified to
this day.
Speaker 18 (26:22):
We just don't know enough about who Asian Doe really
was and what kind of life they led, So until
we have that information, if we ever do, then all
will have.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Is don't, Which brings us to the most tragic case
of them all, involving two of the final victims on
Ocean Parkway, each one found on either end of these
hollow grounds. As it bookends to a nightmare.
Speaker 14 (26:51):
Monday morning, a police dog stumbled up remains just a
mile and a half away from Jones Beach.
Speaker 15 (26:55):
The case of has developed into a murder mystery, growing
more ruesome by the day.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
It's all been very startling. In April twenty eleven, police
would uncover the ninth sets of remains along Ocean Parkway,
dubbed Jane Doe number three. Like many of the other victims,
she was found in a plastic bag, and like Karen Bergatta,
she too had been discarded just over the Nassau County border.
While police had no idea who Jane Doe number three was,
(27:24):
she still managed to reveal a shocking connection to another
set of recently discovered remains.
Speaker 16 (27:30):
Been revealed that one of the new victims is a
young child wrapped in a blanket.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Investigators have discovered remains of a female toddler between the
age of sixteen and thirty two months.
Speaker 12 (27:42):
And another new clue, DNA now links the body of
a toddler found in Suffolk County to the bones found
seven miles away in nassauv It's believed they were mother
and daughter.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
The fact that a mother and child were found among
the victims was more than just a shocking revelation. For many,
the killing of a child was the ultimate act of cruelty.
Some theorized these victims or possibly Lisk's wife and child,
but others believe the toddler's involvement was nothing more than
the tragic consequence of an illicit date gone awry.
Speaker 11 (28:22):
The child's remains being found, what does that now.
Speaker 6 (28:25):
Say, Well, if one of these women gets a phone
call at two o'clock in the morning, It has an
opportunity to make money and has a child she can't
find a sitter for.
Speaker 7 (28:32):
She might bring the.
Speaker 6 (28:33):
Child with her to the encounter, and that may be
the explanation for how the child ended up at a
body dump site.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Many of the unidentified found along Ocean Parkway had been
entered into a database called NamUs, which is used by
law enforcement, medical examiners, and even amateur sluice to help
identify these unknown victims. But while police had entered the
toddler in NamUs, for some reason, they hadn't entered the mother,
Jane Doe number three, prompting us to reach out to
(29:03):
Todd Matthews, a former head of NamUs, who agreed to
help us review the database.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
Suffolk County didn't link one of the other Jane does
through DNA to this child. Wouldn't the mother be tied
to this baby dough somehow here.
Speaker 7 (29:20):
I don't know of a reason why it wouldn't be
in here. And there's a non public side of names.
It's very different than this. If I was a police
officer or medical examiner, this screen is different. And there's
tools that they have that are investigating tools.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
So can you give us any information if we turn
the cameras off on the non public site.
Speaker 7 (29:37):
It depends on what I say.
Speaker 13 (29:38):
There, Okay, so guys, let's turn the cameras off.
Speaker 6 (29:43):
So there she is.
Speaker 7 (29:44):
Let's say dental head was not recovered DNA, it's there.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
While law enforcement did have an active case record for
the mother on the private side of NamUs, she wasn't
being listed publicly. A glaring on me. That might be
another reason why these two victims hadn't been identified.
Speaker 7 (30:05):
The best nayakadect was made to look at the other
case that's related and get the case entered into NamUs.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
However, when Todd Matthews asked the Nassau County Medical Examiner's
office to update NamUs with the mother's information, they made
a shocking admission unknown to the public. Suffolk Police had
long since linked the mother's remains found on Ocean Parkway
to a female torso found over twenty miles away a
(30:33):
decade earlier. It was a cold case that Rachel and
I knew all too well, that of Peaches, Nasa Cunty
Police says.
Speaker 9 (30:41):
The partial remains were found at Hempstead Lake State Park
in nineteen ninety seven in a plastic container.
Speaker 12 (30:47):
She has been known as Peaches all these years because
of her tattoo.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
In June of nineteen ninety seven, a woman's torso was
found inside a rubber maid container at a popular park
in the middle of Long Island. The unidentified victim was
dubbed Peaches due to a distinct peach tattoo on her
left breast. While many of us had suspected Peaches could
be an early victim of LISK, with the help of
Todd Matthews, we had suddenly just gotten confirmation.
Speaker 8 (31:16):
Nineteen years ago. Here in Nassau County, a woman's torso
long considered linked to the remains that have been found
at Gilgo Beach, but now a federal registry confirms it.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Looking back, it's hard to say why police in Nassau
never made this connection public, but considering the dysfunction of
Suffolk County, the whole back wasn't surprising. But Peach's official
inclusion as an early list victim did lead to a
number of revelations. Notably, she extended the killer's geographical footprint,
(31:52):
with Hempstead Park now becoming the westernmost dumb site on
Long Island. But The most important revelation was the one
that eluded investigators until April twenty twenty five, when it
was announced that the Gilgo Beach Task Force had finally
solved the mystery that had tormented so many.
Speaker 9 (32:12):
Police today announced that Peaches is Tanya Denise Jackson, a
twenty six year old Army veteran and single mom originally
from Alabama. Her two year old daughter was Tatiana Marie Dikes.
Speaker 13 (32:24):
Officials saying that they will continue to fight until there's
justice in this case that has rained cold for so long.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
For those of us who have watched the hunt for
liscun full for decades, it's been a long road, made
all the more frustrating knowing what we know now that
back in twenty eleven, a witness had given Suffolk County
detectives a tip that could have led to the killer's
capture sooner, a clue that had been filed away and
lost in time. So then, how did Suffolk County catch
(33:02):
Lisk released? What's the official story? It starts with an
investigation that only begins in Earnest, after police Chief James
Burke is arrested the man charged with replacing him, Timothy Cini,
makes good on a promise to re engage the FBI.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Bringing the FBI to the table with all of its
expertise and resources is a step in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
With the FBI's help, SENI refocused on their cell phone
data analysis from twenty twelve. Back then, agents had already
identified an area where pings from four cell phone towers
had overlapped in Massapequa Park. And now with a newly
secured court order per cell phone tower data dumps, the
request that Chief Burke had previously denied, the FBI analysts
(33:52):
started drilling into the data.
Speaker 15 (33:54):
There was an FBI phone expert who drove through the
Massapequa Park area and establish a map of the cell
phone coverage, and he showed a small area in this
neighborhood that not only was the killer using a phone
in that area, but one of the victims had used
her phone as well.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
The investigators had now whittled down their area of interest
into that geographic box we mentioned previously, a polygon shaped
grid of just several hundred homes in Massapequa Park where
they believed the killer lived.
Speaker 18 (34:27):
Now you can say we have this small area that
we know the killer is connected to. We have this
small area that we know the killer is connected to.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
How many people actually fit this profile? Now, with their
box in hand, if investigators were confident, they would eventually
find that one individual among thousands, that mysterious commuter who
lived in Massapequa Park and worked in midtown Manhattan. But
it would still take years and the creation of a
task force before Suffolk County could finally leave its chaotic
(34:58):
pass behind.
Speaker 15 (35:00):
These commission Rodney Harrison today announcing a new task force
made up of investigators from the FBI, the New York State Police,
as well as the Saffa County Police, Sheriff's Office, and
a DA's office.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
In March of twenty twenty two, the New York State
Police investigator Cask with reviewing old case files, would come
across a statement taken by detectives back in twenty eleven
from amberlind Costello's roommate, Dave Shaller. But what caught her
attention was Shaller's mention of a man who turned violent
during an in call at his home, a huge ogre
(35:33):
of a man who drove a first generation Chevy Avalanche.
Speaker 14 (35:37):
Detectives then looked to see who in that area owned
a distinctive vehicle allegedly tied to one of the murders,
a Chevrolet Avalanche.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Using a comprehensive vehicle database, the state investigator quickly found
a first generation avalanche linked to a resident living in
Massapequa Park, a man named rex Huerman whose home was
located within their sophisticated box. Pulling up human's picture and
seeing his physical description six' four and weighing two hundred
(36:06):
and seventy five, pounds it was plainly obvious that this
was the Ogre Dave shaller was talking.
Speaker 7 (36:13):
About was there a aha moment when all of a
sudden his name came?
Speaker 9 (36:18):
Up once we were able to attach the.
Speaker 6 (36:21):
Avalanche inside of that massive equal, Box sir Rex, huerman
that was a moment where we, Said, okay there's something.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Here but it was when detectives learned that Rex huerman
had spent the last thirty six years commuting to his
office in Midtown, manhattan that The Gilgo Beach Task force
knew they had found their, man a real life boogeyman
who had evaded capture for over twenty seven, YEARS a
cruel and sadistic monster known as The Long island serial.
Speaker 7 (36:52):
Killer Frankie news to bring. You police have made an
arrest in The Gilgo beach murders.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Investigation here With Miguilbo Task force to announce the indictment
Of Rex.
Speaker 17 (37:04):
Yureman breaking news out Of New, york the arrest of
a suspected serial.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Killer these young women were found In december of twenty
ten by The Suffolk.
Speaker 15 (37:14):
County Police, department and then there was, nothing absolutely.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Nothing for the next thirteen.
Speaker 15 (37:20):
Years their cases went unsolved until.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Today handcuffs and flank by.
Speaker 14 (37:26):
Authorities Rex hureman take it to A Long island courthouse
in a case that has confounded investigators for more than a.
Decade german Next sherman is a demon that walks among.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Us ready to keep, Listening remember you can binge the
rest of the season right now with An iHeart True
Crime plus, subscription available exclusively On Apple Podcasts. Plus you
(38:03):
get exclusive bonuses and ad free. Listening so head To Apple,
podcasts Search iHeart True Crime plus and subscribe. Today hunting
The Long Island Serial killer is a production Of TENDERFOOT
tv And iHeart, podcasts, hosted written and executive produced by
(38:27):
Me Josh, Zemon produced and written By Caitlin, Colford Donald,
albright And Payne, lindsay our executive producers on behalf Of TENDERFOOT.
Tv Matt frederick And Trevor, young our executive producers on
behalf Of iHeart. Podcasts original music By Alex, Lasarenko David
little and makeup And Vanity. Set our supervising producer Is John.
(38:51):
Street editing and writing By Daniel. Lonsberry additional voiceover provided
By Rachel. Mills production provided By Ghost, Robot sound, design
mix and master By Daydon. Cole cover design By byron.
McCoy Interns Arnetta, Fontinat Shelby, Hanson Alec walker And Fox.
(39:15):
Williams Ana Television NETWORKS. Llc audio from The Killing season
used under license copyright twenty twenty five A Anda Television NETWORKS.
Llc all rights. Reserved special thanks to the team At
United Talent, agency The Nord, Group Brad, Abramson Todd, Leebowitz
(39:36):
Rich perrillo And Jigsaw, Productions Rachel, Mills Zachary, Mortensen Jen,
Beegle David, Baker joe Jack alone And Evan, krause as
well as the teams At iHeart podcasts And TENDERFOOT. Tv
find us on social media At Monster Underscore pod for
more podcasts Like Monster hunting The Long island Serial. Killer
(40:00):
Search TENDERFOOT tv in your podcast app or visit tenderfoot dot.
Tv and if you want to keep following my hunt
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As sinister With Josh, zeman
New episodes are released weekly absolutely free, but you can
binge the entire season now with iHeart True Crime Plus
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and exclusive bonus episodes, So head to Apple Podcasts, search
iheartrue Crime Plus and subscribe. Today you're listening to Monster
(00:27):
Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer. The views and opinions
expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals
participating in the podcast and do not reflect those of
Tenderfoot TV or iHeartMedia. This podcast contains subject matter which
may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
In this episode, we'll be talking about these victims in
very graphic terms. These details are crucial for proving the
mistakes and missed opportunities that could have led to the
perpetrators capture sooner. These individuals deserve to be remembered not
by the details of their deaths, but by the fullness
of their lives. They are Shannon Gilbert Green, Brainerd Barnes,
(01:12):
Megan Waterman, Melissa Bartholemy Amber, Lyn Costello, Jessica Taylor, Valerie Mack,
Karen Viergatta, Asian Doe, Tanya, Denise Jackson and Tatiana. Marie dikes.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Right, yeah, let's try and walk it.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
So basically she runs this way.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
This is tough. Hold on, I gotta read in my boot.
Speaker 6 (01:50):
This is really what it must have been like, as.
Speaker 7 (01:53):
All just reads.
Speaker 5 (01:55):
Lit'tuf hurts too ow.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Rachel and I were following Shannon Gilbert's last known path
through the treacherous Oak Beach marsh. While the Seffa County
EPD concluded that Shannon died from drowning, there were still
many who refused to accept this conclusion.
Speaker 8 (02:15):
Shannon Gilbert vanished after making a panic nine one one call.
Speaker 9 (02:19):
Police believe Gilbert was simply high and paranoid when she
ran into that march and drowned.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
But not everyone accepts that Gilbert died accidentally.
Speaker 10 (02:27):
There is no evidence whatsoever that Shannon Gilbert died a
natural death.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
One thing was obvious. Walking through that same cold marsh,
thick with razor sharp reeds, was brutally challenging. You see
twice a day seawater floods of this marsh. Sometimes it
feels like you're walking on a soggy trampling. Other times
you're walking through mud that's like quicksand only colder, and
as surprising is it sounds, you can drown in just
(02:55):
three feet of marsh. This whole thing is water.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
If you find the wrong place, your foot's going straight through.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
It used to be worse. While hypothermia may have played
a role in Shannon's death, skeptics were quick to note
that Shannon disappeared in May, when the temperatures were in
the fifties. But if you've spent any time at the beach,
you know those pre dawn hours when the wind comes
off the ocean could be freezing cold. We also had
boots and gloves and jackets that knew exactly where we
(03:27):
were going. Shannon, on the other hand, ran into the
marsh in a panic, heading toward the bright lights of
Ocean Parkway about a quarter mile away.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
Jeez, it just keeps getting worse.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Ocean Parkway is right there, it's right there.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
Ow.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Oh my god, I'm stuck.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
But it didn't matter how close we were, because blocking
our exit to the highway was a five foot high
way up of vines covered in thorns.
Speaker 9 (04:02):
All right, I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
We're not going to get into there. Finally we found
a hole made by police to get to Shannon. We
walked through the path that they cut to get from
that road out to here. It was ridiculous.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
You puldn't have made it.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
For someone barefoot and barely clothed like Shannon. It would
have been nearly impossible to get to Ocean Parkway, just
as impossible as it would have been for someone to
carry a body through that marsh.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
I'm hoping there's something left. There was a white cross before.
Speaker 7 (04:45):
Guys, do you find it?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (04:49):
Can you imagine ending up here.
Speaker 9 (04:54):
So sad?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Seeing Shannon's final resting place about one hundred feet back
from that wall of vines, it made logical sense as
she could have ended up here her body exhausted, her
skin and closed water logged, the freezing cold, making her
drowsy as hypothermia sets him, until finally she passes out
(05:18):
and drowns just a few feet of water. But what
didn't make sense and is so hard to reconcile, is
that Shannon Gilbert, a sex worker who died accidentally in
Oak Beach, had somehow led police to the bodies of
so many other sex workers over nine miles away wall
had been murdered, suggesting what can only be one of
(05:42):
the most shocking coincidences in all of true crime. I'm
Josh Seamen, and this is monster hunting the Long Island
cyrial killer.
Speaker 11 (06:16):
Shannon Gilbert.
Speaker 12 (06:18):
It was her disappearance that led to the discovery of
bodies along Ocean Parkway.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Shannon Gilbert went missing.
Speaker 6 (06:24):
This is Shannon Gilbert.
Speaker 9 (06:25):
She vanished, Shannon Gilbert of Jersey City. And as you
just heard police say, it could be weeks before either one.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
As Rachel and I had come to learn, the overwhelming
mystery of Shannon's death had often undermined the hunt for
the Long Island serial killer. While Shannon had become the
face of this case, the ten victims found along Ocean Parkway,
who were, without a doubt murdered, never got that same
level of media attention. Shannon's death made for TV headlines
(06:52):
of her mother, Mary Gilbert, had hijacked the narrative, including
a number of films that fictionalized Mary's search justice.
Speaker 9 (07:01):
How can you say Shan is not connected.
Speaker 11 (07:03):
She was last seen three miles from the other girls.
Speaker 9 (07:05):
She was in her twenties, just like them. She was small,
just like them.
Speaker 11 (07:09):
She was on craigs, just like them.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And at times this media attention turned into bizarre spectacle,
including a press conference held at Shannon's funeral, led by
the family's lawyer.
Speaker 10 (07:22):
Shannon, I hear you speaking to your murderer, murderer, I
hope you are listening. Murderer, I hope you are listening.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
But lost in the theatrics is an important detail that
many have overlooked. Shannon disappeared on May one, twenty ten.
Less than one month later, in June, Lisk abducted Megan Waterman.
Four months later, he abducted Amberlyn Costello. In just the
four months after Shannon disappeared, Lisk had tragically killed two women,
(08:00):
egging the question if Suffolk County had taken Shannon's case
more seriously, if they had publicized her disappearance within weeks
rather than months, would Lisk have read about it, Would
it have deterred him? And would Megan and Amber still
be with us?
Speaker 13 (08:16):
I would almost guarantee you he's probably watching every move
the police makes on CNN or the local news station.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
But there's something else to consider. List went to Gilgo
Beach not once, but twice to discard these victims, while
just nine miles away Shannon's family. The months later, Suffolk
County pd we're all searching out beach. It's even possible
that police passed that green avalanche pulled over an ocean parkway.
(08:47):
But we also know that Lisk researched and he studied.
He knew going back to Gilgo Beach was risky, and
yet he did it anyway, knowing full well. That exact
same mistake is what led to the capture of Long
Island's other notorious serial murderer, Joel Rifkin, back in nineteen
ninety three.
Speaker 8 (09:07):
Police are investigating at least seventeen murders.
Speaker 12 (09:10):
In connection with thirty four year old Joel Rifkin after
what started as a routine traffic stop.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
There in the arrest, a strong older came from the
back of the vehicle. The troopers investigated and discovered.
Speaker 10 (09:20):
The body of the white female wrapped in a talk.
Speaker 9 (09:24):
Police say he was on his way to dispose of
the body when state troopers tried to pull him over
the Farmingdale.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
So why would list take such an enormous risk. Was
it that thrill of being so close to police proving
he was that much smarter, or that compulsion because Gilgo
was special because eight of his victims were already there
or maybe he didn't think he had to go elsewhere
because of all the time and effort he had spent
(09:51):
convincing law enforcement to look in a different dumping ground
on the other side of Long Island, in the desolate
woods of Manorville.
Speaker 12 (10:02):
Suffolk, police call her Jane Doe number six. Her torso
was found in Manorville in two thousand.
Speaker 14 (10:08):
Hunters found a black plastic bag that had tape all
around it.
Speaker 15 (10:13):
They opened up that bag and they found human remains.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
She was known only as Jane Doe number six, and
in November of two thousand, her remains were found on
a hunting trail. A bird dog had alerted three pheasant
hunters to a bag found with duct tap. Inside was
a torso and another bag with her limbs. One leg
was cut just above the mid calf, suggesting the killer
(10:39):
had removed a tattoo to prevent her identification. Eleven years later,
police discovered the rest of Jane Doe number six over
forty miles away on Gilgo Beach.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Jane Doe number six, whose head, hands, and right foot
were recovered along the Ocean Parkway, was linked by DNA
to a torso discovered in Manaville.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
In twenty twenty two, investigators were able to give back
to Jane Doe number six the one thing her killer
could never take away her name.
Speaker 11 (11:14):
Today, we are announcing that Jane Doe number six has
been positively identified as Valerie Mac. With advances in DNA technology,
a genealogy profile was established. This led HOMSNG investigators to
areas of New Jersey. Valerie Max identification represents progress in
this investigation, but there is much work left to do.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Valerie Lynn Fulton had been adopted by the loving Mac
family of New Jersey, but as an adult she bounced
back and forth between Atlantic City and Philadelphia, engaging in
sex work to feed the disease of addiction. We also
know that Valerie left behind a sun whose name she
had tattooed on her calf, but when she vanished in
two thousand, police were used to file a missing person's report,
(12:02):
making it that much harder to identify her remains when
they were first found in Manorvild.
Speaker 16 (12:10):
All right, so we're crossing thee right now. This is
the middle of the pine barrens, hold on of nothing,
and this is our dump side over here.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
In twenty fifteen, Timothy Bulger, a reporter for the Long
Island Press brought us to Manorville to show us the spot.
Run July twenty third, two thousand and three, residents discovered
a second victim, Jessica Taylor, just three years after Jane
Doe Number six aka Valerie Mack.
Speaker 16 (12:45):
So this is the access road that the killer came
down to dumper body, right, so.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
You kind of have to know where you're going.
Speaker 16 (12:54):
Yeah, for the killer who have gotten to this place,
you would have had to go down a couple of
roads and right on your left ears where we found
Jessica Taylor.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Tonight's Suffa County Police have a murder mystery on their hands.
Police ay a Manorville woman walking her dog came across
the body. The partially decomposed body had been decapitated and
both hands were amputated.
Speaker 9 (13:16):
Police say the victim also had a tattoo on her back.
Anyone with information is asked to contact the Suffolk County
of Police.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Twenty year old Jessica Taylor, a native of Poughkeepsie, was
last seen in midtown Manhattan somewhere around July nineteenth, two
thousand and three. According to recent court documents, Jessica called
her mother on July twenty first, to arrange a visit
for her mother's birthday. Sadly, Jessica never made it home.
Less than two hours later her final cell phone activity
(13:47):
so it's an outgoing call. At ten twenty two pm.
Investigators believed that Jessica had been picked up somewhere around
the Port Authority bus terminal. Four days later, he remains
were found in Manerville, but unlike Valerie Mack, Jessica was
found out in the open.
Speaker 16 (14:11):
This is where she was found laying on top of
a piece of plastic.
Speaker 13 (14:17):
A.
Speaker 16 (14:17):
Cops had tried to ida here by releasing a photo
of her tattoo, which had been sliced up by the killer.
He tried to gouge it out so much they had
to push the skin together to try and read it. Eventually,
cops were able to piece together that I said Remy's Angel.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Having recognized the tattoo, the Washington DC detective suspected the
missing woman was Jessica Taylor and that Remy was her pimp,
Khalil White. Back in two thousand and three, when a
dismembered remains of Valerie and Jessica were first found in Manerville,
the police believed they were dealing with is one killer
(14:58):
dubbed the Manaville Butcher. But later when the remains were
also found on Ocean Parkway alongside the Gilgo four who
were found intact, nobody knew what to think.
Speaker 16 (15:10):
That's definitely what's interesting, the effort that the killer talk
to try and hide Jessica Taylor's identity. If you look
at the four women in Go Go Beach, they were intact.
There was no effort to hide their identity. It doesn't
make a whole lot of logical sense.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And this confusion over victims both found in Manorville and
then Gilgo Beach victims who were found dismembered next to
other victims found intact, which suggested two different modus operandi
or two killers, would lead to one of the most
enduring mysteries of the killing season.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
How do the missing remains of Jessica Taylor and Jane
do number six, first found in Manorville, suddenly end up
more than eight years later and over forty miles away
as part of the carnage of Go Go Beach.
Speaker 14 (16:10):
Suffix DA revealed new information today about the discovery of
bodies along Ocean Parkway.
Speaker 9 (16:16):
VOTA announced that the fifth person found, identified as Jessica Taylor,
does not appear to be linked with the other four.
Speaker 12 (16:23):
Who is responsible for dismembering the woman and discarding their
body parts? Across Suffolk County?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
That was the question on everyone's mind, Who is responsible
and where the Manorville butcher and the Long Island serial
killer to separate killers or possibly the same killer.
Speaker 13 (16:43):
The killer or killers of Jane Doe, number six and
Miss Taylor went to extraordinary lengths to prevent the victims
from being identified. As disturbing as that is, there is
no evidence that all of these remains are that of
a single killeth.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
These different mos some victims found dismembered while others found intact.
The different dumping grounds the years in between would all
spark a frenzied debate over one serial killer verse two,
leading to a surreal press conference where police Chief Dormer
and da Spoda openly contradicted each other.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
The facts of the case indicate one serial killer.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
FIGHT very very much disagree with that theory.
Speaker 13 (17:27):
I would never even discuss this publicly except I think
that the facts do not bear out a single kill
a theory at all.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
But as Robert Kolker, the author of Lost Girls, reveals
there was far more to this dysfunction than just the
number of serial killers.
Speaker 17 (17:48):
The Subakind Police Department has a very controversial history. What
happens in the police force is really a function of
what happens politically in Long Island, and you had a
DA who was at odds with the commissioner because they're
from separate political factions, and they worried openly about it.
Speaker 14 (18:04):
In another bizarre twist in the Gilgo Beach homicide saga,
suffix Za Tom.
Speaker 7 (18:09):
Spoda has attacked Sufi Police Commissioner Richard Dormer's who done
it theories.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Suffic Da Thoms Boda says police now believe they're hunting
three killers, not one.
Speaker 14 (18:18):
Boda says they now may be looking for four different
killers and at least one dump bodies the Long Ocean Parkway.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
Now.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
In truth, very few police departments have the investigative skills
to handle one serial killer case, let alone two serial
killers or even three or now four, Nor do they
have the expertise to manage the overwhelming media attention. I
mean she do you ever have a police chief publicly
saying this?
Speaker 18 (18:48):
Should people be scared?
Speaker 7 (18:49):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (18:50):
No, I don't think. No, I don't want anybody to
think that we have a Jack the Ripper running around
selfa county with blood dripping from a knife.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
But then again, this isn't the first time police have
had to deal with more than one serial killer on
Long Island. From nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety three,
there were in fact two active serial killers operating on
Long Island at the same time, that being Joel Rifkin,
the unemployed landscaper who confessed to killing seventeen sex workers,
(19:20):
and Robert Shulman, opposed to worker who's convicted of killing
five sex workers.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Forty two year old Robert Shulman has been charged with
murdering and dismembering two prostitutes whose bodies were found in
Suffolk County.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
It appears coincidental at this time that mister Rifkin was
operating at the same time as mister Shulman was engaged
in similar activity, and now considering lists twenty three year reign,
there were three zero murderers, begging the question what is
it about Long Island that breeds such malevolence? Again, here's
(19:57):
Robert Kolker.
Speaker 17 (19:58):
I think in Long Island's case, the explanation everybody turns
to is that it's this really densely populated area that's
right on top of New York City, but everybody's seat
of jammed in commuting every day. Here, everybody's sumping up
against one another, and it's like living in a pressure cooker.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
In the early days of the Gilgo Beach case, some
detectives even questioned if any of the ten bodies could
be additional victims of Rifkin ra Schulman. Of course, the
one agency with the experience to help answer those questions
was the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit, recently memorialized in David
Fincher's Mind Hunter.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
When we know who the criminal is, we can understand
what's set him off.
Speaker 16 (20:41):
The question is not only why did the killer do it,
but why did the killer do.
Speaker 9 (20:45):
It this way?
Speaker 16 (20:47):
We are now talking about.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Psychology. In twenty eleven, the FBI initially consulted on the
Gilg case, primarily gathering cell phone data while agents in
the Behavioral Analysis Unit began developing a profile of Lisk.
But once the newly appointed police chief, James Burke, took
over in January of twenty twelve, he and the DA
(21:12):
infamously kicked the FBI off the case, leaving the data
analysis half finished and lists profile in complete. We now
know that Berke and Spuda we're trying to keep the
Feds at arm's length.
Speaker 10 (21:26):
It is the law that the federal authorities should be
in this case. Apparently they'd been bopped out and told
to stay away by Suffolk County.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Whether a complete profile of Lisk would have changed the
course of the investigation remains to be seen, but one
thing is for sure. Suffolk County's lack of expertise led
to a cloud of confusion that had stymied the investigation,
a confusion that only grew more baffling with the discovery
of the last victims found on Ocean Parkway, including the
(22:00):
coldest case of them all, Fire Island. Jane Doe.
Speaker 10 (22:04):
Beach combers made a gruesome discovery on Fire Island. Officials
say two legs wrapped that a plastic bag were found
last night.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
On April twentieth, nineteen ninety six, two brothers walking along
a beach discovered a plastic bag containing the remains of
an unidentified woman. It's presumed the plastic bag was thrown
into the water from another location and carried there by
the tides. Fifteen years later, Fire Island Jane Doe's skull
was recovered on Ocean Parkway, just over the county line
(22:34):
in Nassau County.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
The search for more human remains extended into Nassau County. Today, searchers,
some on horseback, would find a skull near Oyster Bay Park.
Speaker 12 (22:45):
DNA proves that skull belongs to the same woman whose
legs were found wrapped in plastic back in nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
In twenty twenty two, the Gilgo Beach Task Force teamed
with Authorn, the fame forensic genomics company specializing in cold cases,
in hopes of creating a new profile for this victim.
Speaker 9 (23:06):
For twenty seven years, she was known only as Fire
Island Jane Doe. Today her true name.
Speaker 15 (23:14):
We were able to identify Fire Island Jane Doe as
Karen Virgatta.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
The last time Dominic Virgatta heard from his daughter Karen
was on Valentine's Day nineteen ninety six, when she called
to wish him a happy birthday. After months of not
hearing from Karen, Dominic tried to file a missing person's report,
but the NYPD refused. In nineteen ninety seven, the Suffolk
County Detective revealed that a woman's body had been found,
(23:40):
but her degraded DNA didn't match his. Over the ensuing years,
the family had even hired a private investigator, but all
to no avail. Dominic Vigotta died in December of twenty
twenty two, just seven months before Karen had finally been identified.
Speaker 10 (23:58):
Forgotta was thirty four and living in Manhattan when she
vanished on Valentine's Day twenty seven years ago.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
With the discovery of caarms remains along Ocean Parkway, investigators
now believe that the killer or killers had been operating
since at least nineteen ninety six, when she was first
found in Fire Island. More So, Fire Island was in
Suffolk County, but her other remains were found in Nassau County,
suggesting the killer may have been trying to confuse law enforcement.
(24:26):
Yet as baffling as all this sounds, there was at
least some logic in the victimology, that being petite female
sex workers, That was until police uncovered the next victim.
Speaker 12 (24:38):
One male body was found among the ten. Police also
revealed that he may have been killed between five and
ten years ago.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
The unidentified Asian Male was estimated between the ages of
seventeen and twenty three years old at the time of
his debt.
Speaker 18 (24:54):
When Asian Doe was first discovered on April fourth, twenty eleven,
this person was colloquially known as Asian Male.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Sarah Wyman, an author and journalist, has been investigating Asian
doe remains. Is one of the cases most significant mysteries.
Speaker 18 (25:12):
Biologically, they were a signe mail at birth, but Asian
Doe was found with clothing that we would identify with women,
like panties and abroad, so Asian Doe might have identified
as trans.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
He was wearing women's clothing, and I think that's significant.
Speaker 18 (25:31):
Suffolk County thinks that Asian Doe may have been a
sex worker in New York City. Ultimately, there's still so
much we don't know. We don't know who their family
members are. We don't know if they came over from China,
because it's believed that they were of Han Chinese descent,
or if they were born in North America and ended
up in New York.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Unlike any of the other victims found along Ocean Parkway,
Asian Doe reportedly died from blunt for or trauma to
the head. At the time, detectives theorized that the differing
mo suggested the killer might have felt duped and bloodgoned
Asian Doe in a fit of rage, and while newly
released information might suggest a different motive, one that we'll
(26:16):
discuss in greater detail later, Asian Doe remains unidentified to
this day.
Speaker 18 (26:22):
We just don't know enough about who Asian Doe really
was and what kind of life they led, So until
we have that information, if we ever do, then all
will have.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Is don't, Which brings us to the most tragic case
of them all, involving two of the final victims on
Ocean Parkway, each one found on either end of these
hollow grounds. As it bookends to a nightmare.
Speaker 14 (26:51):
Monday morning, a police dog stumbled up remains just a
mile and a half away from Jones Beach.
Speaker 15 (26:55):
The case of has developed into a murder mystery, growing
more ruesome by the day.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
It's all been very startling. In April twenty eleven, police
would uncover the ninth sets of remains along Ocean Parkway,
dubbed Jane Doe number three. Like many of the other victims,
she was found in a plastic bag, and like Karen Bergatta,
she too had been discarded just over the Nassau County border.
While police had no idea who Jane Doe number three was,
(27:24):
she still managed to reveal a shocking connection to another
set of recently discovered remains.
Speaker 16 (27:30):
Been revealed that one of the new victims is a
young child wrapped in a blanket.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Investigators have discovered remains of a female toddler between the
age of sixteen and thirty two months.
Speaker 12 (27:42):
And another new clue, DNA now links the body of
a toddler found in Suffolk County to the bones found
seven miles away in nassauv It's believed they were mother
and daughter.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
The fact that a mother and child were found among
the victims was more than just a shocking revelation. For many,
the killing of a child was the ultimate act of cruelty.
Some theorized these victims or possibly Lisk's wife and child,
but others believe the toddler's involvement was nothing more than
the tragic consequence of an illicit date gone awry.
Speaker 11 (28:22):
The child's remains being found, what does that now.
Speaker 6 (28:25):
Say, Well, if one of these women gets a phone
call at two o'clock in the morning, It has an
opportunity to make money and has a child she can't
find a sitter for.
Speaker 7 (28:32):
She might bring the.
Speaker 6 (28:33):
Child with her to the encounter, and that may be
the explanation for how the child ended up at a
body dump site.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Many of the unidentified found along Ocean Parkway had been
entered into a database called NamUs, which is used by
law enforcement, medical examiners, and even amateur sluice to help
identify these unknown victims. But while police had entered the
toddler in NamUs, for some reason, they hadn't entered the mother,
Jane Doe number three, prompting us to reach out to
(29:03):
Todd Matthews, a former head of NamUs, who agreed to
help us review the database.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
Suffolk County didn't link one of the other Jane does
through DNA to this child. Wouldn't the mother be tied
to this baby dough somehow here.
Speaker 7 (29:20):
I don't know of a reason why it wouldn't be
in here. And there's a non public side of names.
It's very different than this. If I was a police
officer or medical examiner, this screen is different. And there's
tools that they have that are investigating tools.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
So can you give us any information if we turn
the cameras off on the non public site.
Speaker 7 (29:37):
It depends on what I say.
Speaker 13 (29:38):
There, Okay, so guys, let's turn the cameras off.
Speaker 6 (29:43):
So there she is.
Speaker 7 (29:44):
Let's say dental head was not recovered DNA, it's there.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
While law enforcement did have an active case record for
the mother on the private side of NamUs, she wasn't
being listed publicly. A glaring on me. That might be
another reason why these two victims hadn't been identified.
Speaker 7 (30:05):
The best nayakadect was made to look at the other
case that's related and get the case entered into NamUs.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
However, when Todd Matthews asked the Nassau County Medical Examiner's
office to update NamUs with the mother's information, they made
a shocking admission unknown to the public. Suffolk Police had
long since linked the mother's remains found on Ocean Parkway
to a female torso found over twenty miles away a
(30:33):
decade earlier. It was a cold case that Rachel and
I knew all too well, that of Peaches, Nasa Cunty
Police says.
Speaker 9 (30:41):
The partial remains were found at Hempstead Lake State Park
in nineteen ninety seven in a plastic container.
Speaker 12 (30:47):
She has been known as Peaches all these years because
of her tattoo.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
In June of nineteen ninety seven, a woman's torso was
found inside a rubber maid container at a popular park
in the middle of Long Island. The unidentified victim was
dubbed Peaches due to a distinct peach tattoo on her
left breast. While many of us had suspected Peaches could
be an early victim of LISK, with the help of
Todd Matthews, we had suddenly just gotten confirmation.
Speaker 8 (31:16):
Nineteen years ago. Here in Nassau County, a woman's torso
long considered linked to the remains that have been found
at Gilgo Beach, but now a federal registry confirms it.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Looking back, it's hard to say why police in Nassau
never made this connection public, but considering the dysfunction of
Suffolk County, the whole back wasn't surprising. But Peach's official
inclusion as an early list victim did lead to a
number of revelations. Notably, she extended the killer's geographical footprint,
(31:52):
with Hempstead Park now becoming the westernmost dumb site on
Long Island. But The most important revelation was the one
that eluded investigators until April twenty twenty five, when it
was announced that the Gilgo Beach Task Force had finally
solved the mystery that had tormented so many.
Speaker 9 (32:12):
Police today announced that Peaches is Tanya Denise Jackson, a
twenty six year old Army veteran and single mom originally
from Alabama. Her two year old daughter was Tatiana Marie Dikes.
Speaker 13 (32:24):
Officials saying that they will continue to fight until there's
justice in this case that has rained cold for so long.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
For those of us who have watched the hunt for
liscun full for decades, it's been a long road, made
all the more frustrating knowing what we know now that
back in twenty eleven, a witness had given Suffolk County
detectives a tip that could have led to the killer's
capture sooner, a clue that had been filed away and
lost in time. So then, how did Suffolk County catch
(33:02):
Lisk released? What's the official story? It starts with an
investigation that only begins in Earnest, after police Chief James
Burke is arrested the man charged with replacing him, Timothy Cini,
makes good on a promise to re engage the FBI.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Bringing the FBI to the table with all of its
expertise and resources is a step in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
With the FBI's help, SENI refocused on their cell phone
data analysis from twenty twelve. Back then, agents had already
identified an area where pings from four cell phone towers
had overlapped in Massapequa Park. And now with a newly
secured court order per cell phone tower data dumps, the
request that Chief Burke had previously denied, the FBI analysts
(33:52):
started drilling into the data.
Speaker 15 (33:54):
There was an FBI phone expert who drove through the
Massapequa Park area and establish a map of the cell
phone coverage, and he showed a small area in this
neighborhood that not only was the killer using a phone
in that area, but one of the victims had used
her phone as well.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
The investigators had now whittled down their area of interest
into that geographic box we mentioned previously, a polygon shaped
grid of just several hundred homes in Massapequa Park where
they believed the killer lived.
Speaker 18 (34:27):
Now you can say we have this small area that
we know the killer is connected to. We have this
small area that we know the killer is connected to.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
How many people actually fit this profile? Now, with their
box in hand, if investigators were confident, they would eventually
find that one individual among thousands, that mysterious commuter who
lived in Massapequa Park and worked in midtown Manhattan. But
it would still take years and the creation of a
task force before Suffolk County could finally leave its chaotic
(34:58):
pass behind.
Speaker 15 (35:00):
These commission Rodney Harrison today announcing a new task force
made up of investigators from the FBI, the New York State Police,
as well as the Saffa County Police, Sheriff's Office, and
a DA's office.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
In March of twenty twenty two, the New York State
Police investigator Cask with reviewing old case files, would come
across a statement taken by detectives back in twenty eleven
from amberlind Costello's roommate, Dave Shaller. But what caught her
attention was Shaller's mention of a man who turned violent
during an in call at his home, a huge ogre
(35:33):
of a man who drove a first generation Chevy Avalanche.
Speaker 14 (35:37):
Detectives then looked to see who in that area owned
a distinctive vehicle allegedly tied to one of the murders,
a Chevrolet Avalanche.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Using a comprehensive vehicle database, the state investigator quickly found
a first generation avalanche linked to a resident living in
Massapequa Park, a man named rex Huerman whose home was
located within their sophisticated box. Pulling up human's picture and
seeing his physical description six' four and weighing two hundred
(36:06):
and seventy five, pounds it was plainly obvious that this
was the Ogre Dave shaller was talking.
Speaker 7 (36:13):
About was there a aha moment when all of a
sudden his name came?
Speaker 9 (36:18):
Up once we were able to attach the.
Speaker 6 (36:21):
Avalanche inside of that massive equal, Box sir Rex, huerman
that was a moment where we, Said, okay there's something.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Here but it was when detectives learned that Rex huerman
had spent the last thirty six years commuting to his
office in Midtown, manhattan that The Gilgo Beach Task force
knew they had found their, man a real life boogeyman
who had evaded capture for over twenty seven, YEARS a
cruel and sadistic monster known as The Long island serial.
Speaker 7 (36:52):
Killer Frankie news to bring. You police have made an
arrest in The Gilgo beach murders.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Investigation here With Miguilbo Task force to announce the indictment
Of Rex.
Speaker 17 (37:04):
Yureman breaking news out Of New, york the arrest of
a suspected serial.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Killer these young women were found In december of twenty
ten by The Suffolk.
Speaker 15 (37:14):
County Police, department and then there was, nothing absolutely.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Nothing for the next thirteen.
Speaker 15 (37:20):
Years their cases went unsolved until.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Today handcuffs and flank by.
Speaker 14 (37:26):
Authorities Rex hureman take it to A Long island courthouse
in a case that has confounded investigators for more than a.
Decade german Next sherman is a demon that walks among.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Us ready to keep, Listening remember you can binge the
rest of the season right now with An iHeart True
Crime plus, subscription available exclusively On Apple Podcasts. Plus you
(38:03):
get exclusive bonuses and ad free. Listening so head To Apple,
podcasts Search iHeart True Crime plus and subscribe. Today hunting
The Long Island Serial killer is a production Of TENDERFOOT
tv And iHeart, podcasts, hosted written and executive produced by
(38:27):
Me Josh, Zemon produced and written By Caitlin, Colford Donald,
albright And Payne, lindsay our executive producers on behalf Of TENDERFOOT.
Tv Matt frederick And Trevor, young our executive producers on
behalf Of iHeart. Podcasts original music By Alex, Lasarenko David
little and makeup And Vanity. Set our supervising producer Is John.
(38:51):
Street editing and writing By Daniel. Lonsberry additional voiceover provided
By Rachel. Mills production provided By Ghost, Robot sound, design
mix and master By Daydon. Cole cover design By byron.
McCoy Interns Arnetta, Fontinat Shelby, Hanson Alec walker And Fox.
(39:15):
Williams Ana Television NETWORKS. Llc audio from The Killing season
used under license copyright twenty twenty five A Anda Television NETWORKS.
Llc all rights. Reserved special thanks to the team At
United Talent, agency The Nord, Group Brad, Abramson Todd, Leebowitz
(39:36):
Rich perrillo And Jigsaw, Productions Rachel, Mills Zachary, Mortensen Jen,
Beegle David, Baker joe Jack alone And Evan, krause as
well as the teams At iHeart podcasts And TENDERFOOT. Tv
find us on social media At Monster Underscore pod for
more podcasts Like Monster hunting The Long island Serial. Killer
(40:00):
Search TENDERFOOT tv in your podcast app or visit tenderfoot dot.
Tv and if you want to keep following my hunt
for The Long island Serial killer or a deeper dive
into my other true crime, content join me on YouTube
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