March 19, 2020 • 37 mins
Workouts between calls. Meditation apps. A desk candle to boost productivity. Work-from-home hacks for all of us, as we self-isolate and practice social distancing to slow the spread of Coronavirus.
Matt Mullenweg, founder of WordPress and Automattic, was an early evangelist of remote work. Back in the early 2000s, many of his first hires at Wordpress were people he had never met in person. Today, Automattic has nearly 1,200 employees spread across 75 countries around the globe.
With the pandemic now forcing many companies to unexpectedly adopt similar policies, Matt gives Laurie advice on transitioning to this new lifestyle and answers listener questions on the best ways for employees and employers to stay productive.
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Show Notes
- Dance Fitness with Jessica
- Fitbod (fitness app)
- Waking Up with Sam Harris (meditation app)
- Calm (meditation app)
- Sennheiser headset
- Krisp.ai
- Zoom videoconferencing
- Days Without You (Crussen Remix) by Satori
- Dancing by Kiley Minogue
- Qbserve (time-tracking app)
- Momentum (Chrome extension)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
First Contact with Lori Siegel is a production of Dot
Dot Dot Media and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It's we're saying that this is kind of boss level
mode and that this is the hardest version of working
from home that you can imagine, because a lot of
people might have kids, or they didn't really have a
chance to prepare for this.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
This definitely feels like boss level mode. I'll tell you that.
Much as you.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Talk about kind of boss mode, I think you know,
it's an interesting time to start developing those routines, the
things that you said you would and you never did.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
You know. The hardest barrier to that what is distractions. Yeah,
so I think part of what makes this harder is
that there's so much going on in the world. Do
you use any meditation apps yet?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Well?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
No, but I certainly should because I think one thing
I've noticed in isolation is the mental gymnastics are maybe
the hardest part of it. Okay, wow, well we are
in some very strange, strange circumstances. So Matt, I wanted
(01:02):
to bring you on First Contact. Matt mullenmug You are
the founder of Automatic, which is the parentcompany of WordPress
dot com. If folks don't know what WordPress is. ID
like to say, you guys power a good amount of
the Internet. You power thirty four to thirty five percent
of websites are hosted through WordPress. And something that I
have always thought was really interesting is you've been doing
(01:26):
the whole work from home or work remotely thing for
a very long time, right, Like I think you guys
have never had one space, right.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, you know, we came out of the open source world.
So my first colleagues were actually we were working together
as volunteers over the Internet before the company even got started.
So our founding, in fact was on the internet.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So first of all, to give you a little bit
of a backstory, we just had to create this whole
setup at my place remotely. My colleague Jack was literally
remoting into my computer to help me set this all
up because in the last couple of days everything has
changed and we're all grappling with what this virus means
for us and what it means for work. And I mean,
(02:13):
I'm self isolating right now, and so I'm not leaving
my apartment and you too, you're self isolating.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, I'm doing kind of the physical distancing. So my
mom is a little bit older so I just try
to be extra careful with these things. And so I
came down to Houston a few weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Well, I think, you know, as a lot of us
are kind of grappling with this moment.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I think a lot of us are trying to figure
out how to work from home.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
And I've never really done this before, so there've already
been some mishaps, Like truthfully, this is embarrassing to say
to you as like a tech founder, Like I think
I wore pajamas for my first four days in self
isolation and people would try to FaceTime in, and I
was like, I don't think this is the right thing.
So I realized I had to put on real people
clothes like about a day ago.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
And so I really wanted.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
To help give people a sense of best practices.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Like how many employees do you have working remotely?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, so we're around twelve hundred people now. The company's
been pretty much completely remote from day one. We did
do an acquisition last year of Tumblr actually near you
and New York, and so we have a wee workspace
for them, but it's declined that where only about I
think fifty people are going into that office regularly. Of
course before all the virus stuff started. So what we
(03:30):
try to say is that our center of gravity is online.
So we use the word distributed instead of remote to
imply that that's not like essential and remote, but really
like every node is connected equally, and you want that
sort of equality of access to information and ability to
participate between everyone and the company.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I want to get started with, you know, because you're
the expert in this, but I guess maybe just to
start because I know this is a really emotional time.
I know for me maybe the hardest part of self
isolating is the men so gymnastics. So I want to
just start by asking. I know you talk about being
in Houston and being close to your mom.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
How are you doing? You know, how are you mental
health wives?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Thank you? You know, I'm a little bit of a
hermit with a computer screen in a lot of ways anyway,
So I would say that because I travel so much normally,
you know, with your friends, you kind of figure out
ways to stay connected even though you're not together. You
know they might have had you know, postal mail or
(04:31):
telegrams or something. Now we can do FaceTime. I have
friends doing dinner where they zoom, hangouts. You know, so,
which is also a good principle for a remote work
is to say, like, well, what what is really the
thing that I was getting out of X y Z.
You know, kind of like a first principle is thinking, well,
I really like just hanging out with my friends and
(04:52):
hearing what they're up to, kind of ambient intimacy there.
What's a way you can get not one hundred percent,
but maybe eighty percent of that without being physically co
located or even being in the same place at the
same time, And that helps a lot. You know, one
of my favorite things. I'm not good at this, but
I have a lot of friends who do voice those
voice misterges, do you have any.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Friends, Yeah, like voice memos? I have my friend Asa,
does that we leave each other voice memos? I think
that might be kind of cool to do during this time.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's it's cool because it's it's intimate and that it's audio,
but it's asynchronous, right, you don't have to be on
at the same time, which can be hard, especially if
you're having a busy day. So when you think about that,
like what are the kind of levels of communication you know, text, audio, video,
and then can things be synchronous or asynchronous. That's actually
(05:39):
a really good framework to imagine all communication, whether that's
personal or professional.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So as everyone is basically beginning to self isolate to
stay at home, what are the best practices like for
working from home? Would you say, like, what are the
top three things that you need to keep in mind
as you begin to like set up your work from
home space. People have kids, you know, some people are alone.
(06:06):
I mean, there's so many other factors when it comes
to working remotely when you're not around this.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Community and in a physical building.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
You as someone who has built a whole successful company
based off of this, So could you give us like
three of your top key principles and advice for people
who are beginning to do this setup?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Of course, and it's also worth saying that right now
is a little different than normal working from home.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Right, we have people doing it unexpectedly or might be
actually trapped in their home, which is is not usual.
But three things I would say are pretty universal. Or first,
have some good routines. So this sounds basic, but we
forget it, you know, like shower, get dressed, do some
home exercise, you know, kind of do those check ins
like am I hungry? Am I tired? The routine also
(06:51):
helps you build the boundaries, right. One common mistake people
will make when they start working from home is they
don't stop working. Actually, the most common thing we have
when people join automatic is overwork, not underwork. So building
those boundaries and creating the space for yourself, I think
is around routines is a really good step. One.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
What's your routine?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Well, it depends on the day, but I try to
read a little bit in the morning, meditate, do a
little stretch, and if I have extra time before my
first meeting, try to do some exercise. So and there's
all sorts of hacks like the seven minute workouts, the
one that you don't need any weights or anything besides
like a chair and your body weight to do something.
(07:35):
So if you get that movement, it helps a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, I just started doing a This is very embarrassing
to admit, but I'm never I am not someone who
is used to being home. I just signed up for
something called like Dancing with Jessica or something, and at
live streams a dance class somewhere in the South, and
it's almost like we get this a little bit of
serendipity back because I'm watching this random class in the South,
(07:59):
and she did a random prayer.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Before they started.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
It was very different than a New York workout class,
and prayed for the soldiers coming back who were going
to be in quarantine. And it almost reminded me of
that serendipity that we used to have on the internet
back in the day a little bit.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
So I've been attempting to do that too.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
And you are talking to someone who is terrible with
routine in general and working out in general, So I
appreciate that, and I think that's going to be really
really important.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
During this time, I started using an app called a
fit bod, which is kind of like a weight training
but you can program in whatever equipment you happen to have.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Oh cool, and.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
It gives you a set of exercises. Some people prefer
live classes obviously if someone is a peloton like that,
it's kind of built in. So there's a lot of
cool ways there.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, fitbot, that's good to know. Okay, these are very
helpful tips. I mean, honestly, I don't mean to say
like asking for a friend, but like I'm now asking
for all of us because we are in this insanely
unique period, and I think for me, I thought, we
have access to people like you who have these understandings,
so this specific stuff actually really does help. So anyway,
(09:08):
I'll do Fitbot if you do Dancing with Jessica at some.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Point, right, we'll sign up for the same class. Do
you use any meditation apps yet?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Well, no, but I certainly should because I think one
thing I've noticed in an isolation is the mental gymnastics
are maybe the hardest part of it, So I should.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
What meditation apps are you using?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
My two favorites are Waking Up with Sam Harris, which
is a good okay, that actually has a fifty day
course which you really learned how to meditate quite well.
But Calm, which I'm actually was an Angel investor and
is really great because they have specific kind of things
like if you're feeling anxious, they'll a couple of day
program just for that, and so Calm I try to
do that at least ten or twenty minutes every day.
(09:50):
That's routine. Two, I would say, think about your communication.
Try to be intentional in your communication, Okay, especially you'll
find yourself probably communicating a lot more over written form.
Try to add all the context to the messages to
give whoever is on the other side of the screen
all the information they need to respond, and if you
(10:12):
can fluff it up a little. Because text can sometimes
see abrupt, we can often tend towards brevity or communicating
online because we treat it just like texting a friend
and quick. But try to fill it out a little bit,
use emoji, liberally, put some gifts in there, try to
make it a little bit more human even though we're
(10:32):
communicating via text.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That's a really smart thing. I really like that because
I'm just realizing, I think Sabina is listening to this call.
I was responding to her via text, and I realized, like,
my text message is probably sounded short. This was for
actually prepping for this interview with you, and I didn't
mean them too. It's just some of the humanity gets
lost behind a screen when you're moving quickly and you're
doing work, and we don't actually get that ability to
(10:56):
look at each other and soften, If that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
It helps quite a bit, and I make this mistake
all the time too. Of course, if you can ever jump,
if the person wants to. If I'm just saying, hey,
can we hop on a call? I almost always say call,
not video for much the reason that you said you
were in your pajamas. Like not everyone's always ready and
has the setup or a good hair day or whatever
it is to be prepared for video. But audio you
(11:23):
can hop on pretty much anytime, and there's some really
great tools. I recommend a good audio headset. Seinheuzer makes
some really good ones, the SC thirty or SC one thirty.
They're thirty forty fifty bucks, and it gets rid of
the dog barking, it gets rid of everything else going on.
There's also some new software that's pretty neat, one called
crisp dot AI run on your computer that removes all
(11:44):
background noises huh so it uses machine learning algorithm to
essentially remove everything that's set for your voice, so you
can actually be in like a crowded restaurant, even which
I guess we shouldn't be right now, but you could be,
and more likely you might have like street noise. Is
there air conditioning or a washroom dryer or something going
on the back. The audio quality makes a huge difference.
(12:06):
Also makes it so when you're on calls, people don't
need a mute. You know, when everyone's muted, it's weird
in two ways. One to the speaker it's totally silent,
so it feels like very strange just talking to a
completely silent room. And two, if you want to respond,
you have to unmute first, which jilts the conversation, slows
it down right, So check out those It helps quite
a bit. You know, if you're going to be on video,
(12:27):
put a lamp on your desk, better lighting. You don't
want to look weird. All those sort of things like
help quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I know, I would say to our listeners right now, Matt,
I'm looking at him on video, and he has a
very good setup in the back. He has, like, you know,
a nice bookshelf that has like cool stuff, like is
that like some kind.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Of cool album?
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Like you? Your back set up looks much and more
interesting than mine. I have a staircase in mine, and
I also have I don't know why everything is shut down,
but there's construction happening outside. So thank you to all
our listeners who are bearing with my home self isolation
attempt at giving them advice on working from home, as
I'm not sure if I'm one hundred percent doing it.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
The best.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
I actually think your background's great. You have flowers, it's
pretty tidy, and some software like Zoom actually supports like
a virtual green screen so you can put an image
behind you.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
But it is good to take a few moments just
to make your background a little bit more professional, or
try to design a little bit, like put some pictures
of your loved ones there or something where it just
feels a little better. Yeah, you know. Finally, I would
say if the first tip was around, or the first
set of tips around like just being healthy so you're
in a good place. Seconds around like kind of the
work communication, I'd say third would be around, like what
(13:41):
are things you can do to actually make it way
better than you would be if you were in office.
So some examples, I have a candle on my desk.
M I love candles. It smells really good. You can't
really do that in an office. Yeah, you know, maybe
you're hot or cold in the office, so set the
temperature exactly how you like it. Something I like to
do that. I guess you could do an office I
(14:02):
would just be embarrassed. But in between meetings I like
to do just like a little micro exercise like twenty
push ups or twenty squats or something. So think of
things that are actually better because you're at home and
by yourself, that you can kind of building these healthy
micro habits. Put the music on you like as loud
as you like. I like to dance around a little
sometimes if I'm feel a little lower.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
What's your song? What's your song? What song are you
dance into?
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
It's called The Days Without You? Crucon remix is one
that always gets me moving.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
That's amazing. I've decided where's the song.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I'm just going to look for it for our listeners.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I've decided to wake up every morning to Yeah, Kyle
Emano the song Dancing By the way, I was even
like a huge I mean I wasn't like a diehard
fan at all. It just it is such a great song,
and it is such a I realize there's something about
moving your body and smiling during this time. Okay, we've
(14:59):
got to take a quick break to hear from our
sponsors more with my guests after the break. When I
(15:20):
said mental gymnastics earlier, I mean, you know, to give
you more context. You know, it is easy to get
stuck in our own heads. It is easy to not
only just be working from home, but to be dealing
with issues like fear and anxiety about our loved ones,
not just ourselves. I think both of us are in
our thirties, right. You know, my mom is back in Atlanta,
you know, was sick in August. I you know, I
(15:43):
think we all have family right now. And I think
the mental gymnastics of not knowing and knowing something scary
is to come, and you know, I think that can
be really hard. And I think music for me, and
I love hearing you say music has always played a
role in just making us mild during times that are
unprecedented and things we don't know how much control we
(16:05):
have over, although I will say I think we have
control and that we should be staying inside right now.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
It's the fastest way to shift your mood, to change
your brain, and you have the advantage that you're not
going to annoy any coworkers, maybe your neighbors. But so
these tools I think are just things you can look
to it just like the way you put on your
auxygen mask before helping others. It helps, and I think
about it a lot in some ways. You know, I've
struggle a little bit because it feels a little silly
(16:32):
to talk about these things while there's a crisis going on.
But also I think that if you know your I
maybe not in the health professions, we're not going to
be able to contribute in that way. Keeping the economy going,
keeping lives as normal as possible, being strong for friends
and loved ones is one small contribution you can do,
sort of keeping things moving even in a challenging time.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, I totally agree, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Part of I think what's important during this time is
for us, I mean, especially for people like you. You're
a tech founder, a very successful tech founder, and you
know you have all these systems in place and even
doing this for many years, and I think for people
to have access to someone like you during this time
because we're all turning to technology. I would say in
a way that we were all using tech, but now
(17:20):
I think we're about to develop a very new relationship
with tech because we were so dependent on some of this.
So I tried to do it a different way, to
send in voice memos, which I wasn't sure if that
would be a little bit creepy, But I'm like all
for human connection right now as I sit here isolated
in New York, and so we had some people send
(17:40):
in voice memos to ask you questions because I want
people to be able to access some of the tech
founders in the way that I'm able to kind of
get on the phone and call you guys. So I
would love to play some of those for you and
then have you just respond to them and their questions.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Is that cool?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Sounds great?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
All right, here's the first one.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Let's see, Hi, Matt, I work at a real estate
tech startup here in New York City. Like many others,
my company made the decision to close the physical office
last week in response to the coronavirus pandemic and have
all employees work from home. This is likely to be
a period of prolonged disruption. It's so important to have
(18:22):
the right culture for making a distributed workforce succeed. So
what advice would you give to leaders at companies who
don't have a distributed culture as an inherent part of
the operation, but who are perhaps being forced to adopt
such a working style because of this crisis. And secondly,
(18:43):
do you think that this COVID nineteen outbreak will jumpstart
a paradigm shift in the way we think about work
and perhaps get businesses to become more permanently amenable to
distributed working styles.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
What do you think two really good questions. One is
I think we're trying to answer through the whole this
whole podcast, right is the advice for leaders. The only
thing I would add on top of what we've already
said is is just to try to re examine everything
you're doing from that first principle's place. So don't look
at the input, look at the output. Not like we
(19:16):
need to meet Monday in this conference room at nine
am every week, but say, what's the result of that meeting?
Why do we do that for the business? And is
there a different input that could get the same output?
So I think that, you know, unusual times are a
perfect opportunity to reset habits, including work habits, that you
(19:38):
might have fallen into just doing things by default doing
it this week because we did it last week, versus
really looking at it from scratch and saying, well, if
we're reimagining everything, what is a different or better way
to address these things? And that is I think, you know,
if there's a way to make lemonade from the lemons
here is that one of the best things any of
(19:59):
us could do to his second point, which is how
things might permanently shift. They say about democracy that once
you've had a taste of freedom, it's hard to return
to your previous state. My hope is that after the
initial toughness that a lot of folks are going to
through through unexpectedly working from home, that they can start
to find some of the autonomy, agency, and joy that
(20:21):
can come from having more control over your work environments,
your work schedule, again being judged on the output, not
just the input, of what you're contributing to your organization.
And that we also will understand that this is the
first of these that we've really experienced, but probably not
the last. So just like everyone's probably going to be
(20:44):
a bit better prepared at home for whatever you find
that you're missing this time, I hope that everyone spruces
up their home set up a little bit there, thinks
about where they'll work from, the plans for their kids
or their spouses. If there's two calls like that's going
on at once, whereas whereas each partner where each person
in the house going to do it from. And there's
(21:05):
some pretty small and inexpensive investments you can make, like
a lamp on your desk. That can be a huge
help to the quality of your ability to work from
home and the comfort are working from home. So make
a list. Whatever you find challenging, now write it down,
talk to your colleagues and friends about ways to address it,
and you know, when as things settle down or Amazon
(21:27):
is still working wherever you are, start to, you know,
make those small investments in tweaks to allow you to
be as productive or ideally even far more productive in
your own environment than you are in your shared office environment.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I think that's great advice.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Someone I know who's the leader of a big company
messaged me today and sit something along the lines of,
you know, there is so much more efficiency too, and
some of them when there's something like this that happens,
people are cutting right to it. Some of these video
calls like are very very efficient. And so I think
there is something about this moment where we're we're cutting
(22:02):
through the fat and some of the important things they're
rising to the top as well, and I think that
that'll probably manifest itself in some capacity into our work
as well.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
It's we're saying that this is kind of boss level
mode and that this is the hardest version of working
from home that you could imagine, because a lot of
people might have kids or something at home that aren't
used to are unexpectedly at home, or they didn't really
have a chance to prepare for this. So I do
hope that there is a positive outcome. But I also
would say that if this seems extra rough for you
(22:31):
the next week or two, think about what might make
it easier the next time. This is this is a
highly unusual situation in every sense of the word. And
if it doesn't go well, don't don't write off work
from home just because you know the time when we
weren't really allowed to leave our apartments, it was extra TRD.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
This is boss level mode. This definitely feels like boss
level mode. I'll tell you that much. All right, I'm
going to play the next one.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
It's Nick Smooth from Quarterlain and Idaho with Innovation Collective,
and I wanted to ask, what are the things you're
doing to hold on to routines as they're being completely destroyed.
Routines usually come from a place of priorities, and you know,
I'm on day six and trying to rediscover how to
(23:16):
implement my priorities through new routines, but it's a struggle
to be honest, and I have two boys who are
seven and nine, and their routines are being completely jacked
up as well. So any advice on personally rediscovering routines
and things to experiment with and how do you help
your kids rediscover and redefine their routines.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
That is a tricky one because, as we just talked about,
this is an unusual situation. So answer for me personally.
As Laurie knows, I travel a lot because we have
a distributed company, so I would travel a lot to
meet people. I did over five hundred thousand miles last year,
so that means my average miles per hour twenty four
hours a day was like over fifty seven miles per hour.
(23:59):
So stayks still for a couple of weeks now and
maybe a month or two more after. This is highly unusual.
So I'm using it as an opportunity to look at
things I found harder when I was on the road
that I'm trying to build in the good habits now.
So for me, much like you said earlier, LORI like
I actually found working out really hard because I might
(24:19):
be in a different hotel or Airbnb a couple times
a week and it which is kind of hard to
get that routine, and so I'm using this one thing
being the same every day, which is where I am
try to build in that routine. It's kind of pretty
well so far. But I'm also trying not to beat
myself up if I miss a day because it's a
really really busy workday or something like that. But I
think that that is a good opportunity to readdress in
(24:42):
terms of kids, family members, spouses, all these folks being
thrust into the situation as well. What I found most
effective is just taking a little time to zoom out
and check in with folks. So often we kind of
go from from day to day just doing doing, doing doing,
(25:03):
and it's nice to reflect and just take you ten
minutes at the beginning of dinner for every person to
go around the table and say, how has this been,
what have they found challenging, what have they found easy?
What have they liked, what have they disliked, and just
take that without judgment and then have just a little
brainstorm where are some things we can try over the
next few days that might be different, and then do
(25:26):
that check in a few days later. See how it wents.
That sort of iterative process is so simple it even
feels silly saying it because it's so simple, but is
the most effective way to drive change in any organization
or group of people.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
I love that advice, and I think for me personally,
you know, before this happened, I had all these things
I said I wanted to do right about taking care
of myself. And I've like, you, Matt, like we've known
each other for how many years?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
I like, I don't even know, well over a decade now.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Well over a deconde.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I should mention the show is called First Contact, our
first contact we had. I think I ate Ribs for
the first time with you in Brooklyn at our first contact.
And I think there have been so many years, I've said,
because I, you know, a reporter for CNN for ten years.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I was on the road all the time.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I was moving so quickly, and I think, you know,
there are so many things on the to do list
of how I could take care of myself better right
and self care and something like you talk about having
a candle dancing a little bit. You know, for me,
it's on the list of self care. It's been you know,
try to take a bath, right, like, enjoy something like that.
(26:40):
It's been Try to learn to be home and work out,
try to be still more. And I think to a degree,
this is potentially for me when it comes to routine,
forcing me into that in a way that I said
I was going to do it, and now that's it's
almost a survival technique for me having been a nice
(27:00):
now for I would say seven days, and we don't
know how long this is going to go. So I
think using this is an opportunity for some kind of
self reflection. Soone messaged me the other day and said,
I'm an extrovert.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
What do I do? And by the way, who am
I to give this advice? Right?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
But I think for me personally, using this to look
inwards and say, here are some of the things that
I want to work on personally, and this is horrible
what's happening. But to be able to actually spend some
time to try to do those things because you don't
really have another option, as you talk about kind of
bos mode, I think, you know, it's an interesting time
to start developing those routines, the things that you said
(27:36):
you would and you never did, you know, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
The hardest barrier to that is destructions. Yeah, so I
think part of what makes this harder is that there's
so much going on in the world, so you do
have to create that space for yourself to get done
whatever you feel like you need to do that day.
I'm going to say this, but I will also preface
it with this is really hard for me too. But
the news will still be there in a few hours.
Twitter will still be there, s Booker still be there.
(28:01):
So you can turn those things off. You'll find your
mental health is a lot your mind's a lot clearer,
and you're not actually going to miss something that's going
to make a huge difference.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I spoke to an entrepreneur who was in quarantine and China,
and I said to him, what's the thing about this
that's been hard? And he said, you know, I've started
being fully engulfed digitally right and because of that, it's
like jokes, He's like I swallowed the red pill man,
like I went all in, you know, and so it's
almost harder. I think it's incredible and that we can
(28:34):
all find connection right now, and we all need human
connection and tech, which has gotten a pretty bad rap
for the last you know, a couple of years has
helped us find some humanity again.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
But I do I'm with you. I think we've got
to be pretty careful.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Because some of the days that have gone by, like
I could spend easily without even realizing it hours almost
like it's almost okay now in a way that it
wasn't just completely going away. So I love this idea
of like maybe putting away your phone if you can
for a couple hours, or finding some time to try.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
To do that, and don't do it just because someone
on a podcast said to try it. So for example,
take a day and say I'm going to check Twitter
as much as I want, and then the end of
the day just say how you feel, write it down.
And then try another day where you stop yourself from
it and they just write down how you feel. I mean,
all these things, this sort of opportunity of self experiment
(29:26):
can be really rich, but you have to be a
little systematic about it, so write things down, don't just
go with what you think you felt or how you felt.
So it's really helpful.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Okay, we've got to take a quick break to hear
from our sponsors more with my guests. After the break,
(30:00):
we got one more before we wrap, So hold.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
On, Hi, this is Manny. My questions are how to
be more focused and productive while working from home, given
that I did not work remotely in recent past. Also
how to navigate around various distructions while working from home.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
So I know we've covered a lot of this, but
maybe if you could kind of recap it.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I know I'm with.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
You, Mannie, like I am totally with you in dealing
with that, So that is why I brought in Matt.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
There's great software like qbserve, screen Time, etc. So I
like the self profile so sometimes it's very eye opening
to look back and see how much time you actually
spent on a certain website. So check out rescue time, qbserve,
and of course screen time, which is built into a
lot of Apple devices, to see where you actually spend
(30:54):
your time and whether that aligns with what your priorities are.
On my desk, the candle's actually a nice hack because
I find it actually does help me focus. If you
can have some sort of totem or reminder on your
desk that if you find yourself being pulled to distraction,
which often is a symptom of some other feeling like anxiety,
(31:14):
loneliness something else. If the totem can remind you of that,
to take a deep breath, or to close the new
tab or something like that, it can be really really helpful.
I use a Chrome extension called Momentum that when you
launch a new tab, it can tell you what percent
of the day you have left, or show you a
custom message or a different image. So just use this
(31:34):
as a reminder because often opening a new tab is
that point of distraction. It just to try to catch
myself before I trigger the sort of unproductive habit, and
those can be most helpful. But like I said, don't
beat yourself up, and also just try different things. One
thing I've started doing to kind of balance is I'll
(31:55):
set a timer when I go to a website. So
I use some soft are called Tomato one, but it's
any sort of pome dural timer or set of time
on your phone. Just say hey, I'm going to spend
fifteen minutes on Twitter and start it and when that
alarm finishes, close the tap or close the app or
whatever it is. These things sound silly, but you kind
(32:16):
of need a little bit more self discipline, especially in
the beginning to do this, and don't don't rely just
on your willpower, like, use the technology to make it
easier for you. Those would be the ones that I say,
I'll go a little extra. On that new tab screen,
it allows a countdown. So I actually went to an
actuarial calendar calculator and sort of plugged in my date
(32:42):
of birth and whether I smoke or not, and it
gave me the age I would probably live to. So
I plugged that into the countdown timer. So every time
I launch a new tab, it says Momento morning and
the number of days until that day when statistically I'm
likely to kick the bucket. So right now it's fourteen thousand, five,
one hundred and forty four. That's about how many days
(33:02):
I probably have left going around the sun or with
Earth rotating, And so just reminding myself of that is
a really great thing to say, Like, is what I'm
doing truly important right now? Okay? Am I doing the
thing that?
Speaker 6 (33:16):
You know?
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Fourteen thousand days left? Is how I want to spend
those days. So look just around your environment, your habits,
everything you're doing, and see where you can kind of
insert either a reminder or a trigger or an interruption
that can help you make good choices to try to
make it easier on yourself. There's no reason to make
(33:36):
it hard. We have a lot of technology, and almost
every piece of technology you use can be customized. There's
time well spent things on your phone where you can
limit time on certain apps. You can get software for
your computer that blocks certain websites between certain times of
the day. Sometimes I put my computer in airplane mode
just to like make sure I can read a document
(33:57):
without interruptions. So just figure out what it is that
makes it easy for you and do that.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
I love that advice.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
We launched a community number so people can text me
and someone texted. Something they did when they were in
the military to take care of themselves during tough times
was they would write down things they were going to
do when things got better, write down restaurants they wanted
to go to. So I'm going to start doing that,
(34:24):
you know, because we don't know how long we're going
to be in quarantine and self isolating, and we don't
know how long this is going to be. So what
are you looking forward to when all this is when
all this is over?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Oh yeah, I think just getting together with friends of
that worry. It's one of those things. Like I said,
I'm still trying to see my mom when I can,
So that means that everyone else I'm trying to avoid
seeing because I don't want to be an unknown carrier
or asymptomatic carrier to her. So just that, you know what,
(34:56):
I'll pick one thing. Hugs. I'm a hug given and
receiving hugs and uh, and we're kind of not doing
that right now. We're doing elbow bumps you even if
you see someone. So just I'm looking forward to hugs again.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
I can't wait to give folks giy and hugs. No
time soon, no time soon, but wow, I can't wait
till all this is over and we can all hug
each other. And I think that's a nice way to
end with a hopeful future and hugs in these times
(35:34):
of social distancing, when everything feels completely unknown. I have
always believed it's important to stay connected, but I believe
that now more than ever.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
So I say this and I mean it.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Reach out to us, reach out to me, keep an
eye out on our social media.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
We're gonna have.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Ways to participate. You can text me nine one seven
five four zero three four one zero. Also if you
have anything you're thinking about, if you're sitting in self isolation,
you want to say something, you have questions, send me
a voice memo to First Contact Podcast at gmail dot com.
We're going to do our best to be there for
everyone during this tough time.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Thanks for listening. You can connect with me.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
I'm self isolating and here I am at Lorisiegel. On
Twitter and Instagram. The show is at First Contact Podcast.
On Instagram and on Twitter, you can find us. We're
at First Contact Pod and First Context of production of
Dot dot dot Media. Executive produced by Lori Siegel and
Derek Dodge. I will say we're executive producing it from
(36:37):
home at the moment. This episode was produced and edited
by Sabine Jansen and Jack Reagan. The original theme music
is by Xanders Seeing. I hope everyone is staying home
and staying healthy during this time. We're sending our thoughts
to each and every one of you, guys. First Contact
(36:58):
with Lorisiegel is a production of Dot dot Dog Media
and iHeartRadio
First Contact with Lori Siegel is a production of Dot
Dot Dot Media and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It's we're saying that this is kind of boss level
mode and that this is the hardest version of working
from home that you can imagine, because a lot of
people might have kids, or they didn't really have a
chance to prepare for this.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
This definitely feels like boss level mode. I'll tell you that.
Much as you.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Talk about kind of boss mode, I think you know,
it's an interesting time to start developing those routines, the
things that you said you would and you never did.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
You know. The hardest barrier to that what is distractions. Yeah,
so I think part of what makes this harder is
that there's so much going on in the world. Do
you use any meditation apps yet?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Well?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
No, but I certainly should because I think one thing
I've noticed in isolation is the mental gymnastics are maybe
the hardest part of it. Okay, wow, well we are
in some very strange, strange circumstances. So Matt, I wanted
(01:02):
to bring you on First Contact. Matt mullenmug You are
the founder of Automatic, which is the parentcompany of WordPress
dot com. If folks don't know what WordPress is. ID
like to say, you guys power a good amount of
the Internet. You power thirty four to thirty five percent
of websites are hosted through WordPress. And something that I
have always thought was really interesting is you've been doing
(01:26):
the whole work from home or work remotely thing for
a very long time, right, Like I think you guys
have never had one space, right.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, you know, we came out of the open source world.
So my first colleagues were actually we were working together
as volunteers over the Internet before the company even got started.
So our founding, in fact was on the internet.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So first of all, to give you a little bit
of a backstory, we just had to create this whole
setup at my place remotely. My colleague Jack was literally
remoting into my computer to help me set this all
up because in the last couple of days everything has
changed and we're all grappling with what this virus means
for us and what it means for work. And I mean,
(02:13):
I'm self isolating right now, and so I'm not leaving
my apartment and you too, you're self isolating.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, I'm doing kind of the physical distancing. So my
mom is a little bit older so I just try
to be extra careful with these things. And so I
came down to Houston a few weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Well, I think, you know, as a lot of us
are kind of grappling with this moment.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I think a lot of us are trying to figure
out how to work from home.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
And I've never really done this before, so there've already
been some mishaps, Like truthfully, this is embarrassing to say
to you as like a tech founder, Like I think
I wore pajamas for my first four days in self
isolation and people would try to FaceTime in, and I
was like, I don't think this is the right thing.
So I realized I had to put on real people
clothes like about a day ago.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
And so I really wanted.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
To help give people a sense of best practices.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Like how many employees do you have working remotely?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, so we're around twelve hundred people now. The company's
been pretty much completely remote from day one. We did
do an acquisition last year of Tumblr actually near you
and New York, and so we have a wee workspace
for them, but it's declined that where only about I
think fifty people are going into that office regularly. Of
course before all the virus stuff started. So what we
(03:30):
try to say is that our center of gravity is online.
So we use the word distributed instead of remote to
imply that that's not like essential and remote, but really
like every node is connected equally, and you want that
sort of equality of access to information and ability to
participate between everyone and the company.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I want to get started with, you know, because you're
the expert in this, but I guess maybe just to
start because I know this is a really emotional time.
I know for me maybe the hardest part of self
isolating is the men so gymnastics. So I want to
just start by asking. I know you talk about being
in Houston and being close to your mom.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
How are you doing? You know, how are you mental
health wives?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Thank you? You know, I'm a little bit of a
hermit with a computer screen in a lot of ways anyway,
So I would say that because I travel so much normally,
you know, with your friends, you kind of figure out
ways to stay connected even though you're not together. You
know they might have had you know, postal mail or
(04:31):
telegrams or something. Now we can do FaceTime. I have
friends doing dinner where they zoom, hangouts. You know, so,
which is also a good principle for a remote work
is to say, like, well, what what is really the
thing that I was getting out of X y Z.
You know, kind of like a first principle is thinking, well,
I really like just hanging out with my friends and
(04:52):
hearing what they're up to, kind of ambient intimacy there.
What's a way you can get not one hundred percent,
but maybe eighty percent of that without being physically co
located or even being in the same place at the
same time, And that helps a lot. You know, one
of my favorite things. I'm not good at this, but
I have a lot of friends who do voice those
voice misterges, do you have any.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Friends, Yeah, like voice memos? I have my friend Asa,
does that we leave each other voice memos? I think
that might be kind of cool to do during this time.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's it's cool because it's it's intimate and that it's audio,
but it's asynchronous, right, you don't have to be on
at the same time, which can be hard, especially if
you're having a busy day. So when you think about that,
like what are the kind of levels of communication you know, text, audio, video,
and then can things be synchronous or asynchronous. That's actually
(05:39):
a really good framework to imagine all communication, whether that's
personal or professional.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So as everyone is basically beginning to self isolate to
stay at home, what are the best practices like for
working from home? Would you say, like, what are the
top three things that you need to keep in mind
as you begin to like set up your work from
home space. People have kids, you know, some people are alone.
(06:06):
I mean, there's so many other factors when it comes
to working remotely when you're not around this.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Community and in a physical building.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
You as someone who has built a whole successful company
based off of this, So could you give us like
three of your top key principles and advice for people
who are beginning to do this setup?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Of course, and it's also worth saying that right now
is a little different than normal working from home.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Right, we have people doing it unexpectedly or might be
actually trapped in their home, which is is not usual.
But three things I would say are pretty universal. Or first,
have some good routines. So this sounds basic, but we
forget it, you know, like shower, get dressed, do some
home exercise, you know, kind of do those check ins
like am I hungry? Am I tired? The routine also
(06:51):
helps you build the boundaries, right. One common mistake people
will make when they start working from home is they
don't stop working. Actually, the most common thing we have
when people join automatic is overwork, not underwork. So building
those boundaries and creating the space for yourself, I think
is around routines is a really good step. One.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
What's your routine?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Well, it depends on the day, but I try to
read a little bit in the morning, meditate, do a
little stretch, and if I have extra time before my
first meeting, try to do some exercise. So and there's
all sorts of hacks like the seven minute workouts, the
one that you don't need any weights or anything besides
like a chair and your body weight to do something.
(07:35):
So if you get that movement, it helps a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, I just started doing a This is very embarrassing
to admit, but I'm never I am not someone who
is used to being home. I just signed up for
something called like Dancing with Jessica or something, and at
live streams a dance class somewhere in the South, and
it's almost like we get this a little bit of
serendipity back because I'm watching this random class in the South,
(07:59):
and she did a random prayer.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Before they started.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
It was very different than a New York workout class,
and prayed for the soldiers coming back who were going
to be in quarantine. And it almost reminded me of
that serendipity that we used to have on the internet
back in the day a little bit.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
So I've been attempting to do that too.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
And you are talking to someone who is terrible with
routine in general and working out in general, So I
appreciate that, and I think that's going to be really
really important.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
During this time, I started using an app called a
fit bod, which is kind of like a weight training
but you can program in whatever equipment you happen to have.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Oh cool, and.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
It gives you a set of exercises. Some people prefer
live classes obviously if someone is a peloton like that,
it's kind of built in. So there's a lot of
cool ways there.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, fitbot, that's good to know. Okay, these are very
helpful tips. I mean, honestly, I don't mean to say
like asking for a friend, but like I'm now asking
for all of us because we are in this insanely
unique period, and I think for me, I thought, we
have access to people like you who have these understandings,
so this specific stuff actually really does help. So anyway,
(09:08):
I'll do Fitbot if you do Dancing with Jessica at some.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Point, right, we'll sign up for the same class. Do
you use any meditation apps yet?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Well, no, but I certainly should because I think one
thing I've noticed in an isolation is the mental gymnastics
are maybe the hardest part of it, So I should.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
What meditation apps are you using?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
My two favorites are Waking Up with Sam Harris, which
is a good okay, that actually has a fifty day
course which you really learned how to meditate quite well.
But Calm, which I'm actually was an Angel investor and
is really great because they have specific kind of things
like if you're feeling anxious, they'll a couple of day
program just for that, and so Calm I try to
do that at least ten or twenty minutes every day.
(09:50):
That's routine. Two, I would say, think about your communication.
Try to be intentional in your communication, Okay, especially you'll
find yourself probably communicating a lot more over written form.
Try to add all the context to the messages to
give whoever is on the other side of the screen
all the information they need to respond, and if you
(10:12):
can fluff it up a little. Because text can sometimes
see abrupt, we can often tend towards brevity or communicating
online because we treat it just like texting a friend
and quick. But try to fill it out a little bit,
use emoji, liberally, put some gifts in there, try to
make it a little bit more human even though we're
(10:32):
communicating via text.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That's a really smart thing. I really like that because
I'm just realizing, I think Sabina is listening to this call.
I was responding to her via text, and I realized, like,
my text message is probably sounded short. This was for
actually prepping for this interview with you, and I didn't
mean them too. It's just some of the humanity gets
lost behind a screen when you're moving quickly and you're
doing work, and we don't actually get that ability to
(10:56):
look at each other and soften, If that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
It helps quite a bit, and I make this mistake
all the time too. Of course, if you can ever jump,
if the person wants to. If I'm just saying, hey,
can we hop on a call? I almost always say call,
not video for much the reason that you said you
were in your pajamas. Like not everyone's always ready and
has the setup or a good hair day or whatever
it is to be prepared for video. But audio you
(11:23):
can hop on pretty much anytime, and there's some really
great tools. I recommend a good audio headset. Seinheuzer makes
some really good ones, the SC thirty or SC one thirty.
They're thirty forty fifty bucks, and it gets rid of
the dog barking, it gets rid of everything else going on.
There's also some new software that's pretty neat, one called
crisp dot AI run on your computer that removes all
(11:44):
background noises huh so it uses machine learning algorithm to
essentially remove everything that's set for your voice, so you
can actually be in like a crowded restaurant, even which
I guess we shouldn't be right now, but you could be,
and more likely you might have like street noise. Is
there air conditioning or a washroom dryer or something going
on the back. The audio quality makes a huge difference.
(12:06):
Also makes it so when you're on calls, people don't
need a mute. You know, when everyone's muted, it's weird
in two ways. One to the speaker it's totally silent,
so it feels like very strange just talking to a
completely silent room. And two, if you want to respond,
you have to unmute first, which jilts the conversation, slows
it down right, So check out those It helps quite
a bit. You know, if you're going to be on video,
(12:27):
put a lamp on your desk, better lighting. You don't
want to look weird. All those sort of things like
help quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I know, I would say to our listeners right now, Matt,
I'm looking at him on video, and he has a
very good setup in the back. He has, like, you know,
a nice bookshelf that has like cool stuff, like is
that like some kind.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Of cool album?
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Like you? Your back set up looks much and more
interesting than mine. I have a staircase in mine, and
I also have I don't know why everything is shut down,
but there's construction happening outside. So thank you to all
our listeners who are bearing with my home self isolation
attempt at giving them advice on working from home, as
I'm not sure if I'm one hundred percent doing it.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
The best.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
I actually think your background's great. You have flowers, it's
pretty tidy, and some software like Zoom actually supports like
a virtual green screen so you can put an image
behind you.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
But it is good to take a few moments just
to make your background a little bit more professional, or
try to design a little bit, like put some pictures
of your loved ones there or something where it just
feels a little better. Yeah, you know. Finally, I would
say if the first tip was around, or the first
set of tips around like just being healthy so you're
in a good place. Seconds around like kind of the
work communication, I'd say third would be around, like what
(13:41):
are things you can do to actually make it way
better than you would be if you were in office.
So some examples, I have a candle on my desk.
M I love candles. It smells really good. You can't
really do that in an office. Yeah, you know, maybe
you're hot or cold in the office, so set the
temperature exactly how you like it. Something I like to
do that. I guess you could do an office I
(14:02):
would just be embarrassed. But in between meetings I like
to do just like a little micro exercise like twenty
push ups or twenty squats or something. So think of
things that are actually better because you're at home and
by yourself, that you can kind of building these healthy
micro habits. Put the music on you like as loud
as you like. I like to dance around a little
sometimes if I'm feel a little lower.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
What's your song? What's your song? What song are you
dance into?
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
It's called The Days Without You? Crucon remix is one
that always gets me moving.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
That's amazing. I've decided where's the song.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I'm just going to look for it for our listeners.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I've decided to wake up every morning to Yeah, Kyle
Emano the song Dancing By the way, I was even
like a huge I mean I wasn't like a diehard
fan at all. It just it is such a great song,
and it is such a I realize there's something about
moving your body and smiling during this time. Okay, we've
(14:59):
got to take a quick break to hear from our
sponsors more with my guests after the break. When I
(15:20):
said mental gymnastics earlier, I mean, you know, to give
you more context. You know, it is easy to get
stuck in our own heads. It is easy to not
only just be working from home, but to be dealing
with issues like fear and anxiety about our loved ones,
not just ourselves. I think both of us are in
our thirties, right. You know, my mom is back in Atlanta,
you know, was sick in August. I you know, I
(15:43):
think we all have family right now. And I think
the mental gymnastics of not knowing and knowing something scary
is to come, and you know, I think that can
be really hard. And I think music for me, and
I love hearing you say music has always played a
role in just making us mild during times that are
unprecedented and things we don't know how much control we
(16:05):
have over, although I will say I think we have
control and that we should be staying inside right now.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
It's the fastest way to shift your mood, to change
your brain, and you have the advantage that you're not
going to annoy any coworkers, maybe your neighbors. But so
these tools I think are just things you can look
to it just like the way you put on your
auxygen mask before helping others. It helps, and I think
about it a lot in some ways. You know, I've
struggle a little bit because it feels a little silly
(16:32):
to talk about these things while there's a crisis going on.
But also I think that if you know your I
maybe not in the health professions, we're not going to
be able to contribute in that way. Keeping the economy going,
keeping lives as normal as possible, being strong for friends
and loved ones is one small contribution you can do,
sort of keeping things moving even in a challenging time.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, I totally agree, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Part of I think what's important during this time is
for us, I mean, especially for people like you. You're
a tech founder, a very successful tech founder, and you
know you have all these systems in place and even
doing this for many years, and I think for people
to have access to someone like you during this time
because we're all turning to technology. I would say in
a way that we were all using tech, but now
(17:20):
I think we're about to develop a very new relationship
with tech because we were so dependent on some of this.
So I tried to do it a different way, to
send in voice memos, which I wasn't sure if that
would be a little bit creepy, But I'm like all
for human connection right now as I sit here isolated
in New York, and so we had some people send
(17:40):
in voice memos to ask you questions because I want
people to be able to access some of the tech
founders in the way that I'm able to kind of
get on the phone and call you guys. So I
would love to play some of those for you and
then have you just respond to them and their questions.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Is that cool?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Sounds great?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
All right, here's the first one.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Let's see, Hi, Matt, I work at a real estate
tech startup here in New York City. Like many others,
my company made the decision to close the physical office
last week in response to the coronavirus pandemic and have
all employees work from home. This is likely to be
a period of prolonged disruption. It's so important to have
(18:22):
the right culture for making a distributed workforce succeed. So
what advice would you give to leaders at companies who
don't have a distributed culture as an inherent part of
the operation, but who are perhaps being forced to adopt
such a working style because of this crisis. And secondly,
(18:43):
do you think that this COVID nineteen outbreak will jumpstart
a paradigm shift in the way we think about work
and perhaps get businesses to become more permanently amenable to
distributed working styles.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
What do you think two really good questions. One is
I think we're trying to answer through the whole this
whole podcast, right is the advice for leaders. The only
thing I would add on top of what we've already
said is is just to try to re examine everything
you're doing from that first principle's place. So don't look
at the input, look at the output. Not like we
(19:16):
need to meet Monday in this conference room at nine
am every week, but say, what's the result of that meeting?
Why do we do that for the business? And is
there a different input that could get the same output?
So I think that, you know, unusual times are a
perfect opportunity to reset habits, including work habits, that you
(19:38):
might have fallen into just doing things by default doing
it this week because we did it last week, versus
really looking at it from scratch and saying, well, if
we're reimagining everything, what is a different or better way
to address these things? And that is I think, you know,
if there's a way to make lemonade from the lemons
here is that one of the best things any of
(19:59):
us could do to his second point, which is how
things might permanently shift. They say about democracy that once
you've had a taste of freedom, it's hard to return
to your previous state. My hope is that after the
initial toughness that a lot of folks are going to
through through unexpectedly working from home, that they can start
to find some of the autonomy, agency, and joy that
(20:21):
can come from having more control over your work environments,
your work schedule, again being judged on the output, not
just the input, of what you're contributing to your organization.
And that we also will understand that this is the
first of these that we've really experienced, but probably not
the last. So just like everyone's probably going to be
(20:44):
a bit better prepared at home for whatever you find
that you're missing this time, I hope that everyone spruces
up their home set up a little bit there, thinks
about where they'll work from, the plans for their kids
or their spouses. If there's two calls like that's going
on at once, whereas whereas each partner where each person
in the house going to do it from. And there's
(21:05):
some pretty small and inexpensive investments you can make, like
a lamp on your desk. That can be a huge
help to the quality of your ability to work from
home and the comfort are working from home. So make
a list. Whatever you find challenging, now write it down,
talk to your colleagues and friends about ways to address it,
and you know, when as things settle down or Amazon
(21:27):
is still working wherever you are, start to, you know,
make those small investments in tweaks to allow you to
be as productive or ideally even far more productive in
your own environment than you are in your shared office environment.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I think that's great advice.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Someone I know who's the leader of a big company
messaged me today and sit something along the lines of,
you know, there is so much more efficiency too, and
some of them when there's something like this that happens,
people are cutting right to it. Some of these video
calls like are very very efficient. And so I think
there is something about this moment where we're we're cutting
(22:02):
through the fat and some of the important things they're
rising to the top as well, and I think that
that'll probably manifest itself in some capacity into our work
as well.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
It's we're saying that this is kind of boss level
mode and that this is the hardest version of working
from home that you could imagine, because a lot of
people might have kids or something at home that aren't
used to are unexpectedly at home, or they didn't really
have a chance to prepare for this. So I do
hope that there is a positive outcome. But I also
would say that if this seems extra rough for you
(22:31):
the next week or two, think about what might make
it easier the next time. This is this is a
highly unusual situation in every sense of the word. And
if it doesn't go well, don't don't write off work
from home just because you know the time when we
weren't really allowed to leave our apartments, it was extra TRD.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
This is boss level mode. This definitely feels like boss
level mode. I'll tell you that much. All right, I'm
going to play the next one.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
It's Nick Smooth from Quarterlain and Idaho with Innovation Collective,
and I wanted to ask, what are the things you're
doing to hold on to routines as they're being completely destroyed.
Routines usually come from a place of priorities, and you know,
I'm on day six and trying to rediscover how to
(23:16):
implement my priorities through new routines, but it's a struggle
to be honest, and I have two boys who are
seven and nine, and their routines are being completely jacked
up as well. So any advice on personally rediscovering routines
and things to experiment with and how do you help
your kids rediscover and redefine their routines.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
That is a tricky one because, as we just talked about,
this is an unusual situation. So answer for me personally.
As Laurie knows, I travel a lot because we have
a distributed company, so I would travel a lot to
meet people. I did over five hundred thousand miles last year,
so that means my average miles per hour twenty four
hours a day was like over fifty seven miles per hour.
(23:59):
So stayks still for a couple of weeks now and
maybe a month or two more after. This is highly unusual.
So I'm using it as an opportunity to look at
things I found harder when I was on the road
that I'm trying to build in the good habits now.
So for me, much like you said earlier, LORI like
I actually found working out really hard because I might
(24:19):
be in a different hotel or Airbnb a couple times
a week and it which is kind of hard to
get that routine, and so I'm using this one thing
being the same every day, which is where I am
try to build in that routine. It's kind of pretty
well so far. But I'm also trying not to beat
myself up if I miss a day because it's a
really really busy workday or something like that. But I
think that that is a good opportunity to readdress in
(24:42):
terms of kids, family members, spouses, all these folks being
thrust into the situation as well. What I found most
effective is just taking a little time to zoom out
and check in with folks. So often we kind of
go from from day to day just doing doing, doing doing,
(25:03):
and it's nice to reflect and just take you ten
minutes at the beginning of dinner for every person to
go around the table and say, how has this been,
what have they found challenging, what have they found easy?
What have they liked, what have they disliked, and just
take that without judgment and then have just a little
brainstorm where are some things we can try over the
next few days that might be different, and then do
(25:26):
that check in a few days later. See how it wents.
That sort of iterative process is so simple it even
feels silly saying it because it's so simple, but is
the most effective way to drive change in any organization
or group of people.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
I love that advice, and I think for me personally,
you know, before this happened, I had all these things
I said I wanted to do right about taking care
of myself. And I've like, you, Matt, like we've known
each other for how many years?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
I like, I don't even know, well over a decade now.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Well over a deconde.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I should mention the show is called First Contact, our
first contact we had. I think I ate Ribs for
the first time with you in Brooklyn at our first contact.
And I think there have been so many years, I've said,
because I, you know, a reporter for CNN for ten years.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I was on the road all the time.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I was moving so quickly, and I think, you know,
there are so many things on the to do list
of how I could take care of myself better right
and self care and something like you talk about having
a candle dancing a little bit. You know, for me,
it's on the list of self care. It's been you know,
try to take a bath, right, like, enjoy something like that.
(26:40):
It's been Try to learn to be home and work out,
try to be still more. And I think to a degree,
this is potentially for me when it comes to routine,
forcing me into that in a way that I said
I was going to do it, and now that's it's
almost a survival technique for me having been a nice
(27:00):
now for I would say seven days, and we don't
know how long this is going to go. So I
think using this is an opportunity for some kind of
self reflection. Soone messaged me the other day and said,
I'm an extrovert.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
What do I do? And by the way, who am
I to give this advice? Right?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
But I think for me personally, using this to look
inwards and say, here are some of the things that
I want to work on personally, and this is horrible
what's happening. But to be able to actually spend some
time to try to do those things because you don't
really have another option, as you talk about kind of
bos mode, I think, you know, it's an interesting time
to start developing those routines, the things that you said
(27:36):
you would and you never did, you know, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
The hardest barrier to that is destructions. Yeah, so I
think part of what makes this harder is that there's
so much going on in the world, so you do
have to create that space for yourself to get done
whatever you feel like you need to do that day.
I'm going to say this, but I will also preface
it with this is really hard for me too. But
the news will still be there in a few hours.
Twitter will still be there, s Booker still be there.
(28:01):
So you can turn those things off. You'll find your
mental health is a lot your mind's a lot clearer,
and you're not actually going to miss something that's going
to make a huge difference.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I spoke to an entrepreneur who was in quarantine and China,
and I said to him, what's the thing about this
that's been hard? And he said, you know, I've started
being fully engulfed digitally right and because of that, it's
like jokes, He's like I swallowed the red pill man,
like I went all in, you know, and so it's
almost harder. I think it's incredible and that we can
(28:34):
all find connection right now, and we all need human
connection and tech, which has gotten a pretty bad rap
for the last you know, a couple of years has
helped us find some humanity again.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
But I do I'm with you. I think we've got
to be pretty careful.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Because some of the days that have gone by, like
I could spend easily without even realizing it hours almost
like it's almost okay now in a way that it
wasn't just completely going away. So I love this idea
of like maybe putting away your phone if you can
for a couple hours, or finding some time to try.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
To do that, and don't do it just because someone
on a podcast said to try it. So for example,
take a day and say I'm going to check Twitter
as much as I want, and then the end of
the day just say how you feel, write it down.
And then try another day where you stop yourself from
it and they just write down how you feel. I mean,
all these things, this sort of opportunity of self experiment
(29:26):
can be really rich, but you have to be a
little systematic about it, so write things down, don't just
go with what you think you felt or how you felt.
So it's really helpful.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Okay, we've got to take a quick break to hear
from our sponsors more with my guests. After the break,
(30:00):
we got one more before we wrap, So hold.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
On, Hi, this is Manny. My questions are how to
be more focused and productive while working from home, given
that I did not work remotely in recent past. Also
how to navigate around various distructions while working from home.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
So I know we've covered a lot of this, but
maybe if you could kind of recap it.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I know I'm with.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
You, Mannie, like I am totally with you in dealing
with that, So that is why I brought in Matt.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
There's great software like qbserve, screen Time, etc. So I
like the self profile so sometimes it's very eye opening
to look back and see how much time you actually
spent on a certain website. So check out rescue time, qbserve,
and of course screen time, which is built into a
lot of Apple devices, to see where you actually spend
(30:54):
your time and whether that aligns with what your priorities are.
On my desk, the candle's actually a nice hack because
I find it actually does help me focus. If you
can have some sort of totem or reminder on your
desk that if you find yourself being pulled to distraction,
which often is a symptom of some other feeling like anxiety,
(31:14):
loneliness something else. If the totem can remind you of that,
to take a deep breath, or to close the new
tab or something like that, it can be really really helpful.
I use a Chrome extension called Momentum that when you
launch a new tab, it can tell you what percent
of the day you have left, or show you a
custom message or a different image. So just use this
(31:34):
as a reminder because often opening a new tab is
that point of distraction. It just to try to catch
myself before I trigger the sort of unproductive habit, and
those can be most helpful. But like I said, don't
beat yourself up, and also just try different things. One
thing I've started doing to kind of balance is I'll
(31:55):
set a timer when I go to a website. So
I use some soft are called Tomato one, but it's
any sort of pome dural timer or set of time
on your phone. Just say hey, I'm going to spend
fifteen minutes on Twitter and start it and when that
alarm finishes, close the tap or close the app or
whatever it is. These things sound silly, but you kind
(32:16):
of need a little bit more self discipline, especially in
the beginning to do this, and don't don't rely just
on your willpower, like, use the technology to make it
easier for you. Those would be the ones that I say,
I'll go a little extra. On that new tab screen,
it allows a countdown. So I actually went to an
actuarial calendar calculator and sort of plugged in my date
(32:42):
of birth and whether I smoke or not, and it
gave me the age I would probably live to. So
I plugged that into the countdown timer. So every time
I launch a new tab, it says Momento morning and
the number of days until that day when statistically I'm
likely to kick the bucket. So right now it's fourteen thousand, five,
one hundred and forty four. That's about how many days
(33:02):
I probably have left going around the sun or with
Earth rotating, And so just reminding myself of that is
a really great thing to say, Like, is what I'm
doing truly important right now? Okay? Am I doing the
thing that?
Speaker 6 (33:16):
You know?
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Fourteen thousand days left? Is how I want to spend
those days. So look just around your environment, your habits,
everything you're doing, and see where you can kind of
insert either a reminder or a trigger or an interruption
that can help you make good choices to try to
make it easier on yourself. There's no reason to make
(33:36):
it hard. We have a lot of technology, and almost
every piece of technology you use can be customized. There's
time well spent things on your phone where you can
limit time on certain apps. You can get software for
your computer that blocks certain websites between certain times of
the day. Sometimes I put my computer in airplane mode
just to like make sure I can read a document
(33:57):
without interruptions. So just figure out what it is that
makes it easy for you and do that.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
I love that advice.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
We launched a community number so people can text me
and someone texted. Something they did when they were in
the military to take care of themselves during tough times
was they would write down things they were going to
do when things got better, write down restaurants they wanted
to go to. So I'm going to start doing that,
(34:24):
you know, because we don't know how long we're going
to be in quarantine and self isolating, and we don't
know how long this is going to be. So what
are you looking forward to when all this is when
all this is over?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Oh yeah, I think just getting together with friends of
that worry. It's one of those things. Like I said,
I'm still trying to see my mom when I can,
So that means that everyone else I'm trying to avoid
seeing because I don't want to be an unknown carrier
or asymptomatic carrier to her. So just that, you know what,
(34:56):
I'll pick one thing. Hugs. I'm a hug given and
receiving hugs and uh, and we're kind of not doing
that right now. We're doing elbow bumps you even if
you see someone. So just I'm looking forward to hugs again.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
I can't wait to give folks giy and hugs. No
time soon, no time soon, but wow, I can't wait
till all this is over and we can all hug
each other. And I think that's a nice way to
end with a hopeful future and hugs in these times
(35:34):
of social distancing, when everything feels completely unknown. I have
always believed it's important to stay connected, but I believe
that now more than ever.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
So I say this and I mean it.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Reach out to us, reach out to me, keep an
eye out on our social media.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
We're gonna have.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Ways to participate. You can text me nine one seven
five four zero three four one zero. Also if you
have anything you're thinking about, if you're sitting in self isolation,
you want to say something, you have questions, send me
a voice memo to First Contact Podcast at gmail dot com.
We're going to do our best to be there for
everyone during this tough time.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Thanks for listening. You can connect with me.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
I'm self isolating and here I am at Lorisiegel. On
Twitter and Instagram. The show is at First Contact Podcast.
On Instagram and on Twitter, you can find us. We're
at First Contact Pod and First Context of production of
Dot dot dot Media. Executive produced by Lori Siegel and
Derek Dodge. I will say we're executive producing it from
(36:37):
home at the moment. This episode was produced and edited
by Sabine Jansen and Jack Reagan. The original theme music
is by Xanders Seeing. I hope everyone is staying home
and staying healthy during this time. We're sending our thoughts
to each and every one of you, guys. First Contact
(36:58):
with Lorisiegel is a production of Dot dot Dog Media
and iHeartRadio
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