104 - Garden Party

Karen and Georgia cover the case of Susan Kuhnhausen and the Order of the Solar Temple cult.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Center yourself, guest Syria, are you centered I feel like
I might be, Or are you in the center.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'm kind of I'm a little sideways, a little wonky.
I might be a little wanky.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
That's because this is my my favorite murder, the podcast
with the consistently worst opening in the.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
History of podcasts. You know, we invite you in slowly
with awkwardness.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Right by making you want to turn it off, but
but you stick around because you're.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Like, maybe this could get worse.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
That's that's Karen Kilgarriff. That's side is Karen Kilgarriff, And
that that fake size Georgia Hartstalk. Hi.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Hi, We're here to talk to you about true crime
and all the things that we have now associated with
true crime, which is everything, which pretty much anything, anything, everything,
all of it. The thing I'm living now is just
consistent pictures of old razor blade holes in people's bathroom cabinet.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Like twenty eighteen is all about shit hidden in walls. Yes,
and especially if you have an old timey medicine cabinet,
go check yours. I bet there's so many people listening, like,
what are you talking about? Yeah, go downstairs. I don't
know if you're upstairs, I don't know why your bathroom's downstairs.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Wait, first of all, why are you upstairs? Go downstairs?
Someone's in their car right now.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
They don't know, So go upstairs.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Go upstairs. Is a double decker bus, you know, double
decker bus? Driver? Oh you do it?

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Go upstairs, Go upstairs to your mansion, Go into the bathroom.
Why don't you have bathroom upstairs? Yeah, that's so weird.
Everyone does, And why don't you? You? You? And then
open your cabinet, and is there a thing that says
razors can go in here or whatever? The fucking old
timey font.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yes, is there a little old fashioned hole that seems
haunted m and could have bloody remnants of somebody in it?

Speaker 1 (02:14):
So much DNA, so much vintage DNA. Ooh, that would
be fun.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
And just maybe you stare at it for a couple hours.
Then you start to pull at it and.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
You write a book of short stories about every person
who's put a razor into that fucking hole.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
First it's an old guy, then it's a young guy,
and it's a lady's shaving her legs. Yes, you get
a woman.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
This is why is the patriarchy taking over your short
book of short stories.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Never forget, women shave way more than me, so much more.
We're just all of our bodies, face and legs, all
of it.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Listen, when you get to be thirty something, you're gonna
shave your face too.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Don't You're. One of my favorite tweets is our friend
Morgan Murphy, hilarious comedian Morgan Murphy. She has my favorite
tweet of all time, which is your girlfriend shaves her toes.
It was just like shit, just a little drop of
hardcore and that's good. Sorry, it's the truth. Like an
Italian yep, just get it done real quick, and you

(03:12):
need two hundred and forty characters to get the good
stuff going.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Mmmmm ay man. You know I had to take the
like close up mirror down from my wall in the bathroom,
the like look at this mirror, yeah, real close in
all the hairs and stuff. Because I had to take
it down.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
I say that special occasion hotel room is only good call.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
And then you're like, what is wrong with me?

Speaker 2 (03:32):
And you look at your face You're like why.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Then I even told me.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
But when I was growing up, we got those for Christmas.
One year, my sister and I when I was like
fourteen years life because your mom was like girls, she
it was someone else that gave me to us, Holy shit,
and we I used to sit at my desk in
my room with the lights out and that thing on
it like switching it. You know how it'd be like day,
evening night or whatever. Evening and night are the same,
but not on this mirror. It was like one was green,

(03:58):
one was bright, one was like really pink.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Like what if you're at like a like a late
afternoon tonight party, like that evening is gonna come and
you're gonna need to look your best you're.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Gonna have today. Yeah, you have to adjust your eyebrow
plucking to the light.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Or more men will never love you and you'll never
find a husband.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Never find a man. You will not land a man
at this garden party unless you pluck your shin correct
or Jessicama clintalk dress can only get you so far.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
And that fucking updo that permed updoo.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
You better get your list of topics to talk about
in small talk conversations, and you better shave your upper
lift or thread it or do something something. Don't forget
about those nosehirs because that's a girl. There's here's the
worst one. Oh no, just everyone's will I'll just catch
a random black neck hair.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah yeah, I got the chin, I got the chin covered.
I got the neck. You take the neck, I'll take
the chin.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Neck might be like the next stage up. I'm like
a whole g generation older than you.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Question is it going up or down?

Speaker 2 (05:03):
I feel like it might be going to No, No,
it's horrible.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
You're in for a treat.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
I'm in for the night. That's why I do not
leave my house. I can't trust my neck. I don't
know what's coming out of there ever, anyway, what.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
We're talking about, Oh yeah, you got the mirror.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
Just I would stare into it and pluck my brows
and look at my purse for so long that my
dad would just keep walking by my bedroom door, going oh.
He would make a noise like it was a bug light,
and I was like a praying Manti's cat on a
bug light. He's like, a look at the bug light.
You're not help my dad. They never helped.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
No, why would they. They want you to suffer so
you don't get an ego.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Well, it fucking.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Worked, and like reach great heights or whatever. You know why,
because then you're gonna fall further. You're welcome, fourteen year
old Karen.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
See, it doesn't hurt as bad when you don't climb
as high.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
When you stumble upwards, it's better than when you climb upwards,
that's right, right, or or sore upwards right? That takes
so much.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Ever, that's for the rich.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
That's for like people who don't have friends, like time
for friends, yeah, time for pets.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, that's for people who are like, oh, I'm a
concert clarinetist. Well, congratulations, go do that, then buy yours.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
I can't have a dog, arc hat. I just I'm
never home. I'm working all hours. And it's like, well,
then you're living your life wrong.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, you need a pet. Bring it with you, Bring
it to the symphony with you.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, let's teach it to fucking play a horn instrument.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Wait, speaking of which, can I tell you sidebar that
I took my dogs to the dog beat.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, which is like, I'm so jealous if we can't
take my cats to the dog.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Beach, shouldn't you shouldn't? They would not have a good time.
But although it is one big cat box, really.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
They'd be like whoa, I don't think that would happen
everywhere we go.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
And shit, But because it had rained so crazy down here,
there was so much garbage and seaweed on the beach.
Frank was like in Heaven. It was like a mini
beach garbage dump.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
What was in there?

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Well, there was one whole huge fish by just a
big dead fish. That's so cool. Then there was lots
of what looked it was pieces of plastic that looked
like they were from legs, pantyhose containers, like the eggs.
We're like, why are there so many plastic eggs around?
Then there was like a basically like Kia Futon frame.

(07:31):
There's a little kid in the surf that was pushing
out a huge like what looked like the gnarled base
of an oak tree, and he was just it was
like they were like, oh, good to project. You go
do that in the in the riptide.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
One word pathogens just everywhere.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
One small cut on your.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Foot, one tiny cut. Do you watch house? Go watch house.
They'll never trace that disease. I know.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
All those beautiful young doctors on the beach, Oh my god.
And there was like oil. It was really dirty, and
I took my feet. I took my shoes off and
then I was like, oh, Karen. I didn't think about
it until like I have forty five minutes in. I
was like, Oh, I'm there's no way I'm not gonna
have some crazy mystery.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Rash this this podcast is going to change to my
favorite staff infection. Like tonight, get your fucking feet off
my couch. Everything's covered.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
I keep everything in surgical booties until I'm clear.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
Two weeks clear too. This is what happens when you
leave the house.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Well, what would your favorite staff infection be? Oh, because
there's a lot, there's so many.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Good I really do love thorign bodies, foreign bodies.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
I like a good jump on a rusty nail. I
did that once in sixth grades.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
I don't like that.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
It was intense, but I think I did it because
I was at a slumber party that I didn't want
to be at. It was. It was very intensely christian.
I was like, I've got to get out of here.
And the next thing I knew, I was like jumping
in a field and I landed on a rusty nail.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
I was like, well, it looks like I go my mom,
unless we can break into your parents slicker cabin and
just pour some alcohol on this or wherever.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
I think I need to be driven away from here,
whatever the medical procedure is. It's it's not going to
take place.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
It's not it's not praying over my foot.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
No, it's not gonna be with your weird Christian records.
Got to go love the Lord, see you at school.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
But I can't handle this. I'm watching a show on Netflix. Yeah,
it might be watching that everyone loves called The End
of the fucking World.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
No, do you heard it?

Speaker 1 (09:29):
No?

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Oh, it's so good. What is it? Okay? It's like, okay,
it's like if you.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Took Harold and Maud Yes, anti Wes Anderson.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Anti, like angry at Wes Anderson.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Like anti like cute and like kitchen in that way, but.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Like no, shot is centered, nothing is No, it's okay,
maybe just Wes Anderson, but like dark Wes Anderson. Okay,
got it, okay, And then like it's just like it's
dark but like cute and cool. It's like these it's
really good and it's murdery and there's these two young
kids in it and they're like, he looks like Harold
from Harold and mad and she's super adorable, and they
maybe they murder someone we don't know.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Like, it's a really good show.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Should I read you the thing instead of telling you
sure about it? In my own special way.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
I feel like what you just did was very clear.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Listen. If I say it's good, it's probably good.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
I mean, I feel like you're batting. I'd say eight
for ten.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Sure, I get where'd I go wrong? That?

Speaker 2 (10:27):
I don't know. I couldn't give you ten out of ten.
I just couldn't. Well, that's fair enough, because I again,
I want you to climb. I want things to be hard.
I want you to earn it.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
If you compliment someone without a little bit of a
negativity in it, they're just gonna not try anymore.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
That's right. They're gonna get a big head. Uh huh.
And you know that's the worst thing that can happen.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
And then they're gonna show up at a fucking garden
party with hairs coming out of everywhere.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
Oh look at me, I'm so pretty. I have a beard. No,
this is wrong. What's happening.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
You're never going to find a husband. You'll mcclint to
hawk your bress.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
He loved well, grow all together. Oh sure, you can
wear that dress all you want, but the Laurel's not
going to land you a man. It's not the florals. No,
it's the clear chin. It's a smooth chin and a
feminine chin. So shut up, shut it are what are
we doing?

Speaker 1 (11:19):
I don't know. What do you have to talk about?

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Okay? Anything? Yeah, I do. Two weeks ago, the last
in Person upstairs? What do we call this podcast? When
it's us not live? I talked about the Beast of
Jersey a whole. Somebody said. So. I was making conversation
with somebody and they were like, what was your last
show about? They had never listened to the podcast. They
were just trying to be polite. And I went into

(11:43):
a synopsis of what the Beast of Jersey was all about.
And as I was saying it, I was like, stop
talking now.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
You were like, oh, they were being polite. They don't
want to know about the fucking leather mask. This person
wore plastic weird raybe that they raped out of at anyone.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
They raped everyone they could by themselves, which is why.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
But I think people listening to those podcasts and why
you and I are doing it is that we realize
we can't talk to anyone about But that's exactly right.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
We all have to meet here if you want to
have These are not dinner conversations. These are your friend's
new girlfriend.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
Okay, this is like the podcast of I don't get
the face of someone who isn't interested when I tell
them about this.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Isn't it cool?

Speaker 1 (12:24):
And then but usually they like, they kill inside their
own race, and they didn't kill inside their own race anymore.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
And he did that. That's amazing. Nobody wants to know
about that. That's in real life. People are like, anyhow,
she's did you hear about the bomb? Right? So anyway, yeah,
but as some of you know, I did talk about
the kind of cows because the islands we were talking
about were Jersey and Guernsey. And so then I began

(12:53):
to hold forth like a cow expert. You are because
I am. I am a c plus us cow expert.
That's how much I got it right. And I'm very
angry and ashamed because I grew up amidst cows. I
had to smell their shit every day. It was all
hay and cows and now felfa and NonStop dairy. So

(13:15):
The fact that I got this wrong is both shaming
and then also I'm not sure why I'm cute.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
I mean, proximity doesn't equal fucking knowledge. Knowledge.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Very true. Here we go, Are you ready?

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Always?

Speaker 2 (13:27):
This is from Gail. Okay, Gail, she gets right into it.
You're absolutely right about the Jersey and Guernsey cattle breeds
coming from the islands in the English channel, but a
little not right about a little right. You're just a
little not right, which is so accurate about what those
cows look like. Jerseys are the smaller brown ones, and

(13:47):
their babies look like little deer. They are the cutest.
Even the groans are cute. Guernseys are brown and white cows,
and they aren't as common. The black and white cows
are whole Stein's. That's what I was talking about. Both
Jerseys and Guernseys are known for their rich and flavorful
milk that is high in protein and butterfat. Although the
milk that you buy from the store has been standardized
in its nutrient composition by removing fat and adding it

(14:10):
buckad government. So the fat content fuck the government. So
the fat content is most important for making other dairy
products besides milk jerseys are particularly popular because even though
they are small and don't make as much milk as
larger cows, they are much more efficient and making milk.

(14:32):
Think of them as the preuses of dairy cattle, and
I will from now on I'm a professor of dairy
and animals.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Sorry.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Well, yes, so I was pretty tickle to hear you
guys talk about cows while I was simultaneously listening to
your podcast and scrambling to edit powerpoints about cows before
the semester starts. Like in her episode, that's it was
like made for her.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
She's like, listen, I hate cereal rapists. Yeah, but here's
my chance to shine.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
But still I found something I could. I love here,
and that's what we try to do. This is what
it's all about. And then she said, cheers to all
and especially the pets, Gail, And then in parentheses it says,
which in my case is a woman's scientist name. I
don't know what that means. Oh, that's so thank you, Gail.
Also thank you Sarah, Emma, Ali and everyone who tweeted

(15:21):
us this correction. We got emails from Sarah, Emma and
Ali also that we're all equally of his informative about cows.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
That's nice.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
So just so everybody knows, jerseys are the prettiest cows.
Guernseys are like Jersey's less pretty sister.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Oh, now we're going to get I'm going for it.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Holstein's are black and white cows like from an old
country folk painting.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
And then the ones I grew up with were Heifer's,
which are the orange and white ones I believe they are?

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Or maybe that's I have never known so much about
cows in my life.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
And and isn't it fun? Like you can now take
this straight to a dinner party.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah, I'm talking about murder.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
You go straight into listing cows and their colors.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
You know how everyone loves to talk about you.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
Just wait for a nice posm of conversation. Did you
know the ones that look like there are jerseys?

Speaker 1 (16:15):
Their happers and then you got buck, they got room Man's.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Not the government. May I have that salt and pepper please?

Speaker 1 (16:23):
Because can I say correct? To correct nobody? Really? But
just to read this high ladies. And then in preenthesy
says Steven animals. Oh and this is called some Montessori
insight about Georgia's dirty feet.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Uh oh, here we go.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Blah blah blah, really nice stuff and then uh. On
episode one oh two, you mentioned attending Montessori schools and
Georgia recalls having a feet washing bucket as a Montessori teacher.
I was cackling in my car. This dirty feed scenario
is totally not a fever dream. The goal of Montessori
schools is to teach independence, life skills, and appreciation of nature.
You were key enough to go to get to go

(17:01):
outside and explore and learn, allowing those feet to get nasty.
Bless your teacher for allowing the children to wash their
feet water. So fun. We only have a hand washing station.
I'm not nice enough to let my little ones take
their shoes off outside. Anyways, Thanks for all you do.
Stay sexy. Wash those feet don't get murdered, Jamie.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Well, Jamie though, I bet that's smart because you don't
want like a child staph infections.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
Don't step on a fucking rusty nail, do not.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
They'll jump on it just to get out of school.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
Oh, definitely lazy.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Anyhow, Oh, I guess this last one. This is just
a fun email. Yeah, it's Stephen pulled for us. Look
and listen, David Fincher. Yeah, it's the subject line from Gina, Hi,
ladies and honorary Lady Stephen Raymore.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Steven's triumphantly raising his fists.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
So good. Was watching seven for the first time, Such
a good movie you've had twenty nine years I've watch
was watching seven for the first time, and notice this.
And then she pulled a screen cap and it's Morgan
Freeman standing in front of broad pit and the line
he's saying to him is I want you to look
and I want you to listen. Okay, And then she

(18:12):
back in the email, says just saying, has anyone ever
seen Karen and Georgia in the same room as Morgan?
Karen and Morgan certainly share that deep, distinguished voice. Oh
my god, lots of love plus some sloth, greed, gluttony,
et cetera. Gina, that's everyone, so goddamn funny.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
If you haven't seen seven, Murderinos, young Murderinos, go watch seven.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Oh my god, if you haven't seen seven, creepy. This
conversation ends here. Yeah, pause it, pose it.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Go check your go downstairs and check your medicine cabinet.
That's right, Go back upstairs, Go back upstairs to you,
why is your TV upstairs in your bathrooms downstairs? It
seems inconvenient.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, because a basement bathroom and in an attic TV
room is just hard for the family.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Is your house only a basement in an attic? What
does that mean?

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Or maybe you're a doctor Seu's character. Do you have
a hat where the machines that clean the house come
out of it? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (19:06):
You might want to check your hat.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Check your fucking check, and then check the fucking government man.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, tell them about cows. Inform them. Who goes first
this week?

Speaker 2 (19:17):
I think it's you?

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Right?

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Did I go what? Did? We had a live episode? Oh? Yeah,
but didn't we think we were doing We're.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Not thinking first this week. I was counting on going
first this week.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Good because I had to do it last week.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, I find it technically technically yeah, do you think
of Bert? You think I think going first is better
because then I can fucking chill as shit, Oh, drink
my sparkling wine. Oh you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (19:42):
I do so, But I can't go first every week
because I would suck.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, that would suck. It does suck. It's like you
kind of have to get everything up off the ground, right,
all right? You set a tone? Yeah, and then what
howd to intimidate you? But you really control the mood
right now?

Speaker 1 (19:56):
Just kidding?

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Fuck No.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
The thing too is what if what if this is
your murder? What if my murder is your murder? And
I go get it first?

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Then you don't have to go. I can't wait.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Then I just sit back and go like, yes, girl,
tell it. Yeah, yeah, you forgot this part. Let me
tell you this thing.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
Okay, fucking thing.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Okay, and now we can start, all right. So I
found this story and decided to do it, and then
really found out that it is also an I Survived.
She's in an I Survived episode.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yes, so this is special for you. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
So I watched the I Survived episode. It was great,
but also I got a lot, like most of my
information from an article in the Willamette Week by Beth
Slavic from twenty sixteen. So cool, Thank you, Beth, good job.
We're proud of you. Okay, So this is the story
of Susan Kuhnhausen. Okay, any bells?

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (20:55):
No, I feel like I'm like reading to the master.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Can I just do a quick brag? Yeah? My sister
said last weekend, I think it was. She was like,
there's an eye survived on that's amazing right now, you
need to watch it. A woman who escaped a serial killer.
And I wrote back, does she have red hair in
a green sweater? I've seen it already? And my siter goes,
that was creepy because I know, yeah, I honestly have

(21:24):
seen them all five times.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
I've seen maybe two. Okay, you're the queen of this,
so I felt a little. But I think that this
is you.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Know, do you mind if I will listen to you
and guests the whole time? Yeah, I'll bring in when
I think I know that's what this podcast is.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, girl, this podcast doesn't be quiet while I tell
you about the story, So please be quiet. Interrupt the
shit out of me with incorrect guesses.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
This is the one time I've been interrupting you for
two years straight, but this is the one time we
were like, could you please be quiet? This isn't an
I survived.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
It's actually really and wait, literally two years straight today.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
That's right, it's our two year fucking anniversary.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Of existing, of existing and having real fucking personalities, lives.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
Having an interest that we shared. I thought this could
possibly be interesting. First day of the rest of our lives.
Insanely due two years high five Georgia hart Star, thank
you to Careen.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
This podcast would be going to Montessori.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
No, it wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
That's too young, right, it's too young. But unmost day
care working daycare working moms. Yeah, listen, we get Steve Stephen.
Will you be this podcast nanny? Stephen's the podcast nanny?
I would think so, Stephen, thank you.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, I'll take care of you. You would be a manny, right,
oh right, right, right, Stephen? You came in what a
year and a half, I mean like six months in
my my, I guess two years. There's a heart in
his calendar. Oh yeah, it's like a little like in
my locker. It's like, yeah, my two universaries in May.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Okay, yeah, well, well we're going to say right now
that we'll get you something for your two anniversary, and
then we won't.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
So then we'll make up for it and it'll be
even better.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yes, that's that's exactly all I can hope for all
you've ever wanted.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
We do, right, yeah, exactly, you know how we do.
I love it?

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, Okay, all right, Susan Kuhhausen. Okay, here we go.
On the evening of Wednesday, September sixth, two thousand and six,
fifty one year old emergency room nurse of nearly thirty
years Susan Kuhnhausen ended her shift at Providence Portland Medical
Center and headed to her appointment at Perfect Look Hair

(23:34):
Salon in East Burnside Street on East Burnside Street, Portland.
I guess you know what that is. You already know, d'ian.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
No, no, no, I don't I know that area though,
the Burnside Just oh, okay, so perfect Look, it's our
new hair salon.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
It's so good, It's so good. Susan had moved to
Oregon in the early eighties. She settled in Portland, and
she was well liked by everyone who knew her. Of course,
everyone says she's outgoing, vivacious, she's this amazing nurse. She's
loved by everyone. In nineteen eighty eight, when she was
in her early thirties, Susan, along with a friend and
her mom's help, placed a singles ad in the Willamette Week,

(24:09):
which is what this fucking I.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Just realized is what this article is from. Oh yeah,
I didn't put it together. That's awesome, that's amazing. That's
a very popular circular. Is that in Portland? I think
it still exists.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, looking for and so she placed a singles ad
which is how I used to find love.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
It's like before could you imagine? No, it's just like, oh,
it's all like letters and numbers and like I'm a
Taurus s f.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
S looking for d I think my mom put one
of those in in like Irvine Weekly or whatever in
the eighties.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
Did she get me? Did she catch any good fish?

Speaker 1 (24:46):
I'm sure she didn't Jesus, because she dated were horrendous.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Were they sick? Name? You know?

Speaker 1 (24:52):
They were just like like single dads in the eighties
were creeps, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (24:57):
A lot of transition lenses, a lot of mustards. Y.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, all right, this isn't about me.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
Okay or Janet? Sorry about Janet.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
It's always about Janet, okay. So she wrote looking for
a quote someone different, and then about herself, she wrote
overweight but not over life, which I love so much.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
There's your there's like a that's a necklace instead of
like live laugh love overweight but.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Not over life, not over life. And then you kick
a stranger in.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
The dicksize by your necklace?

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Can you know the website Reductress that I'm just like
Their fucking headlines make me laugh so harder than their articles.
It's like it's like the Onion for women. Yes, there
they have like merch now and one of their they
have a shirt that has an arrow and it's up
to the arrow goes to your face and it says,
my vagina's up here.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
They had one after the Golden Globes that said zero
quotes from men about the me too movements. So funny,
it's so good.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Okay, someone different, overweight but not over life, seeks sm
who wants more out of a relationship than just quote
slender fucking girl.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yes, wow, Goddess is in the late eighties when none
of these attitudes were allowed.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
No, you go to fucking jazzer size and you diet
and reduce or you're nothing and no one.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
It's blaming our bust everybody. It was a hard time.
But then meanwhile we were being tricked into ingesting fake
diet food that was actually filled with sugar. So like
we all thought New York Seltzer was diet. Yeah, and
we're like this is so delicious that you drink like
seven of them and it's just like drinking.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Good right, and then you scream at your kids. Yeah, okay, okay.
Thirty nine year old Mike Koonhansen responded and about him,
Susan said, quote, he had a nice voice. I was impressed.
He wanted to talk about deeper things, which I wrote,
red flag. You know, No he doesn't.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
He goes straight to poetry. Get out of there.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Deeper things, deeper than what than what?

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Their first day was in five Very nineteen eighty eight.
Mike Mike was adopted as a newborn in nineteen forty eight,
grew up in Portland. He told Susan he saw combat
in Vietnam, but military records list him as a switchboard operator.
Within the year, they drove to Reno to get married.
So she marries this dude, Mike kuhnham Housen. Okay, it
quickly soured, she said, quote it wasn't long after.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
Wait a second, Wait a second.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Don't give it away for the listeners at home.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
I won't. I think I might just say give me a.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Give me like a keyword.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
She finds him in the house.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
No, okay, but close. I think you do know, you're
just not there yet. Okay, we gotta get you for
a little further. And then you're like yes, okay, no, no, No.
It wasn't very long after we got married that there
was no more hiking, no more going out. Yeah, because
people say they're into shit, that they're not into shit,
and then in a year they're sick of you, which
is why you need to start a relationship saying I

(27:57):
like to sit at home and binge, watch shit with
my cat and fucking get takeout.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, what's past like topical weekend interest. Yeah, that's the
reality of the relationship.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
Nobody likes to hike.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
No, it's total dating bullshit. It's stupid, it's really dumb.
It's for single, desperate, thirsty people literally literally.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Okay thought married. Within a few years of the wedding,
Mike got a new job as a janitorial supervisor for
Oregon Entertainment, the parent company of Fantasy Adult Video. So
basically he started working for an adult video company as
the genitor, which has to be like a bomber job,
like about you don't come home from that fucking kicking

(28:38):
your heels and.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Your wife, even if it's all paper products like guys
and ties. There is still a level of light scum.
I would say on everything that he that was his
job just to mop off totally literally and figuratively.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah. Okay, So he starts slowly revealing to her in
the early years that he'd never really been happy his life. Philosophy,
she says, was life's a shit sandwich and every day
you take another bite until you die.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
Fucking thanks Garfield, Jesus Christ. This is why.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Everyone needs to go to therapy and get pharmaceuticals. Yes,
well not everyone, but this guy clearly.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
I mean, it's just so sorry. That's all of life
to you. Yeah, Like you're not gonna you have that
attitude and you're not gonna do anything to change it.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Like take a chill pill, and by chill pill, I
mean a fucking.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Zola on it, lip the up, anything something help yourself, Okay.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Mike chain smoked. He also pounded diet cox, which is like,
is that why you being a dick about it? He
was very controlling. He would found Susan about her plans
when she went out, and he kept track of her
spending and complained about all her purchases, which is like,
shut up. I need to go to perfect look every
two weeks or you're gonna tell me I look like shit.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yes, exactly. Also, she is an emergency room nurse. Yeah
she's pulling down then. Oh yeah, union wage, she's doing
very well.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yeah, your fantasy adult fucking video store is not the
same wage.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Probably not so Yeah, the spending discussion.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Anyway, let's talk about marriage. Okay, Seventeen years into their marriage,
Susan is like, fuck the shit, She said, I cared
about him, but I didn't want to live with him anymore.
I wanted to be happy again. So in September two
thousand and five, she kicks on the fuck out of
the house and he moves into his father's home. But
Susan never changes the locks or the alarm code, which

(30:31):
was their anniversary.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
Well, why would she? It's her husband, right, she thinks
she knows and has a relationship with Right.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Okay, so she wasn't surprised. After her hair appointment, she
gets home, she's still in her scrubs. It's six thirty
seven pm. She lives in Montevilla neighborhood, comes home, finds
a note by the microwave from Mike because they're still
talking and stuff, saying, Sue, I haven't been sleeping, had
to get away, went to the beach. He said he'd
see here on Friday or Saturday.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Love me, he says.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
So Susan disarms the alarm, goes through the house to
the front, grabs her mail, and she comes back inside
and looks through the house to her bedroom and sees
that it's really fucking dark in her bedroom normally, and
she's like, oh, I thought i'd opened the drapes that morning.
That's like something is off. She knew it immediately in
the in the fucking and insect part of her brain.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Well, there's what is scarier than that, When you're standing
in your house and there's something off, there's something that
you didn't do that. That is like I always have
a lamp. There's a one lamp I'd never turn off.
Oh and if that, if that were off, if I
came home and that were off, I would be like, well,
I would think I got my electricity turned off, which
happens constantly.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
But my thing is like if my cats aren't if
one of the cats aren't greeting me, there's something wrong
in the house, yes, you know, like they're scared. There's
there's a reason.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
If my dogs aren't there barking at the window like
I'm the mailman, I think they're both dead, like I
picture they ate chemicals, they ate whatever. Like I get
a whole thing of trying to go into acceptance about
losing both dogs at the same home. And then Georgia
like walk up like what I want.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
I was sleeping the other day, Vincent came home and
the whole house smelled like cigarettes, like someone had just
smoked a cigarette or was smoking a cigarette in the house.
It was really fucking creepy. And you like went room
to room and looked everywhere and.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
What was Did you have a window open?

Speaker 1 (32:23):
No, I don't know what it was. It was probably
someone in the hallway or something.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Wait. I think we've talked about this already, But did
I ever tell you about my friends who live in
New York and they they are the producers of Eugene
Mermon's comedy Festival h And they put a camera in
their house because they in their apartment, they kept noticing
little things moved, and so finally they put this a

(32:50):
camera in their house that would switch on if there
was a movement. Yeah, and so the guy was at work,
it switches on. Their landlord just is going into their
house walking around, and she's it's one of the creepiest videos.
They showed it to me. And she's just really slowly
walking around and looking at everything. Oh my god. And
she like at one point walks upstairs which is just

(33:13):
their bedroom, and is up there for like three minutes
and then comes back down. I never told you about
that now, and then she just leaves. But it was
like one of the creepiest, weirdest things I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
How come she was moving shit.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
It's like she would she would look over like for
a while, she'd look at pictures, or she'd like lean over.
She was just snooping around. So I'm sure one time
she like pick up a magazine at it and put
it down, thinking they'll never notice. Oh my god, isn't
that amazing?

Speaker 1 (33:39):
You know that's happened in your life?

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Oh my god?

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Right, like someone's gone through your shit. When I was
a kid, when I was like a certain there was
a certain young part period in my life when I
was like twelve where all I fucking did was snoop
through my fucking family's shit. Yes, just snoop. It was
so much fun.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
I would always go through my mom's night stand drawer
because there was always weird, super random shit in there,
but there was never anything good. But it would be like,
if I dig back here far enough, there was something
weird where I'm like, is this sexual? I'm not sure?
And it never was. It was like never what I
wanted it. One time I thought I found a porn
under my parents' bed and I pulled it out and

(34:19):
I was just an exercise, like these videotape Yeah, I
was gonna say a VCR.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
My friend and I went through we It was during
this time and I had a friend who was like, yeah,
let's go through my mom shit too, and we both
had single moms and we found like it must have
been given to her as a gag gift, because now
that I'm older, I'm like, no one would use.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Those on themselves. It's disgusting.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
But at the time we were like, I think we
like stopped looking through people's stuff after we found this
box of like weird dildo attachments. Yes, we were both
like oh no, yeah, and never talked about it again.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
That's the thing that you learn depending from somewhere between
when you're eleven and fourteen, Yeah, which is you can
go ahead and snoop all you want, but there's a
you have to land on the other side of snooping, yeah,
which is not only that you you're a snooper and
you could get caught yeah, known as that. Yeah, but
then you know something.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, there might be shit you don't want to know.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
You're not even imagining what you wouldn't want to know, yea,
and managing that. You're just being like, I know what
this is going to amount to.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yeah, don't do it, do not or I mean do
but just know that.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
But then you have to die with some secrets. You
could snoop up a secret that you're then you're just like,
well or you just know that and talk about it
years later. It's true.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Okay, this isn't about me. This is about Susan. That's right,
disarming her alarm. It's dark in her room. She goes
to her room. This is your last chance to guess
what this is. I know what this is because sorry,
Mike is not in the house. No, okay, but but
I know what you know? You think, okay, you know,
but you have no idea From behind the bedroom door,

(36:02):
a man suddenly lurches towards me.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
It's a hired guy.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
Sorry, sorry, Okay, Susan doesn't recognize his face. He's got dockers,
a blue striped shirt on, and a tan baseball hat
pulled down over his eyes. He has yellow rubber gloves
on his hands and is carrying a red and black
claw fucking hammer, a clawhammer, clawhammer. He swings the fucking

(36:27):
hammer and his first blow lands on her left temple.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Okay, you hire a hit man, and he's like, here's
how I'm gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
I'm gonna bludge in her to death.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
I'm gonna I choose to bludge in a person as
opposed to just shoot them and get out of here. Yes, yeah,
horrify yeah okay.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
So, using her instincts and her three decades of experience
in the er where Karen all the e Yar nurses
are trained regularly in self defense, learning how to slip
out of headlocks and clutches. Wow, Susan knows instinctively to
roud her attacker, not to like cower and back off,
because the blows land shittier ifs are the closer you are.

(37:09):
That's just I'm not this, don't legally, I am not
telling you to do anything when you get attacked, et cetera. Yeah,
and that would have less force the swings of the
hammer if she's not.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
If she's super close to him.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
She fucking screams at him, who are you? What do
you want? She's fucking yelling at him, but he doesn't answer.
Susan's only five foot four, so she's five inches shorter
than the man, and she has two bad knees from
repeded injuries and her excessive weight, as she fucking clearly
stated in her in her singles bad she out but

(37:45):
she outweighed him because he was super skinny, So she
says she she's She slams her body up against his
attempts to push him over, but he doesn't fall. Instead,
he pushes Susan against the bedroom wall, then says the
only phrase that he ever said, He's gonna say that night,
secretly between you and me, the last fucking thing he'll

(38:06):
ever say. Oh you're strong, You're strong. And she says
that the phrase sends surges of adrenaline through her because
she said quote. With hearing this phrase, she says, he's
here to kill me. She realized at that moment. I
don't know why, I don't know who he is, but
his intent was clear and those are his last fucking words. Ever. Oh,

(38:31):
Susan pushes him again and says, who sent you? She
wrestles the hammer from him, and she fucking swings the
claw three or four times into his skull. Fuck she
got the fucking hammer. Yes, He grabs it back, and
so Susan grabs his throat and says, who sent you here?
Squeezing his fucking throat, his face turns red and purple,

(38:56):
and then he goes blue. Susan freaks out at that moment,
and let's go and tries to fucking run. She he
catches her though, as she's running from the bedroom. They're
in this narrow hallway together. He spins her around and
punches her, splitting her lip. Punches her again and she
falls to the floor, and when she looks up, he's

(39:17):
standing over her with the hammer. And at that moment,
she thinks, I'm going to die today.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Why did she let go when his face was blue?

Speaker 1 (39:24):
I mean, people don't want to kill people, true.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
But fuck, I know, least make him pass out.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
I mean, yeah, but like you think close enough?

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Right? The fact that he was able to get up.
I guess so I always think I'm smarter than people
and death near death situations.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
So she knows she needs to get the hammer from him,
so she pulls him to the floor with her. So
he's standing over her and she fucking pulls me to
the ground her.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
That's brilliant, I know. She starts to.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Bite him in her mind, thinking I know I'm gonna die,
but I'm going to fucking leave teeth marks that people
know that he like can find him. Yeah, So she
wrestling on the floor to get either. She bites his arm,
his flank, in his thigh, and bites through his fucking zipper,
to his fucking genitals, to his dick. They can't write
that in the will, i'mett probably probably not. At the

(40:12):
same time, she's going through his fucking pockets looking for
ID so she can like throw his wallet under the
bed so like the cops will know.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Who it is. Jesus. No, well, you know what, the
er her working in an er probably prepped her for
so many.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
There's no time to panic.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Yeah, yeah, real click clear, thinker and horrible.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
Here's exactly.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
She said.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
I was like a down power line snapping on the pavement.
How cool is that?

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (40:38):
I know the fight at this point had lasted. You
know how long this fight has gone on? How long
can you fucking fight for?

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Do you think I would give it a good nineteen minutes?

Speaker 1 (40:48):
Okay, never mind it's fourteen.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
Oh, but however, that's a lot like success hours.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
I can't even do five minutes of cardiot.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
I can't even walk up your stairs without being winded exactly,
all right, So we'll edit that out and then I'll
say six minutes.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
Okay, okay, great. They're both wedged on their sides in
the small hallway. She throws a leg over his body,
climbs on top of him, hooks her left arm around
his neck's neck so she's got on a fucking chokehold.
Ww style, says, tell me who's sent Tell me who
sent you here? And I will call you a fucking ambulance.
And all he did was growl. And then she says,

(41:29):
when I realized I was not going to ever regain
the hammer, it came to me that I need I
needed to become the weapon. She growl us, she says,
She leans forward, tightens her form against his throat, and
he stopped moving. She grabs the hammer and runs outside
of the neighbors. They call nine one one. Here's a
quote from the nine to one call. Do you need

(41:49):
an ambulance? Says They said, do you need an ambulance?
And the neighbor said no. She's a nurse, She says,
call an ambulance for the guy. He maybe did. She's like, ahaa,
fucking fine, but she is not. She is she doesn't know.
She doesn't feel like as much of a badass about
this as we think of her as a bad ass.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
She's like freaked the fuck out about us.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Of course, of course, I mean not just that this
happened to her, but that she killed the dude, right, Okay, Well.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
So that's I mean, that's a horrible burden.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yes, So the man was fucking dead. His name's His
name was Edward Haffey. He was a fifty nine year
old Vietnam veteran. On off top, she showed he had
a near lethal dose of cocaine in a system when
he died. Relatives and friends told police he'd been raised
in an upper middle class home and was an avid
tennis player. So something fucking happened, and I bet it's cocaine. Yeah,

(42:40):
he recently lived or Vietnam. He recently lived in a
trailer on northeast Killingsworth Street and had a long rap sheet.
In Susan's basement, they find Ed's backpack and inside is
a container of Hershey's syrup. What two hundred dollars in cash,
diabetes pill and a day book and a pay stub.
So court record show that fifteen years earlier, on February

(43:02):
twenty eighth, nineteen ninety one, this guy, Edward Hafey arranged
the murder of his ex girlfriend, thirty nine year old
Georgia Lee Dutton. Where that my name is Georgia and
my sister's nickname is Lee.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Yeah, not really a little bit, a little bit touch
of weird.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Let's go a little. Her decomposed body was later found
along the Umpqua River.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
That's right?

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Is that right near Roseberg? So I try to look
up details about her murder because I wanted to say
some more about her, but I can't find anything at all.
So he had pled guilty to conspiracy to commit aggregated
murder in nineteen ninety four and spent the next nine
years in the Eastern Oregon Correctional Institution. And he had
been released in November of two thousand and three for murder.

(43:45):
Oh god, okay, oh my good. After he got out,
he moved to Portland and in July two thousand and four,
was hired by none other than our fucking friend Mike
koon hants Hawsen the worst last name name to clean
floors at adult at Fantasy Adult Video. Oh so they

(44:05):
were work mats, they were workmates. So which is where
the past stub in his backpack was from? Oh? Okay, okay.
There's also a day book that had an entry that
said call Mike for September fourth, two thousand and six,
along with Mike's new cell phone number.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
So like, not a good murderer, No, one's covering anything.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Not a good hit man. No, and he got killed
instead of well.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
I mean the claw the claw hammer is the indicator.
This is not a hit man. This is like a lunatic.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Yeah, definitely. So on September eighth, Mike left a suicide
note at his father's house, saying all I ever wanted
was to be loved, and every time I had it,
I fucked it up. No, dude, you're a piece of shit.
Don't feel fucking sorry for yourself.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Yeah, this is not the time for if you've arranged
the murder of your ex wife that, Yeah, it's not
the time to talk about how hard things are for.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
You, right and how bad it is that you fuck
things up. So then he takes off. Ten am on
September thirteenth, a deputy finds Mike in the parking garage
of a Kaiser. Mike says, he's checking himself in.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
We don't kaiser. Yeah, they won't have They'll have you
there for ten minutes max. Well for to a psychiatric hold.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
Oh sorry, whatever, talking shit.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
I didn't realize Kayser had any psychiatric services available.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Let's go try it. I will right now, I will.
So police put him an involuntary psychiatric hold. Then they
put him under arrest for conspiracy commit murder, obviously at
a motive. He had lost his job weeks earlier. He
had no place to live. Susan had named her brother
as a beneficiar in her life insurance policy, which is
so smart, because she was like, I'm divorced, Like she
must have had some fucking yeah you know, and Mike

(45:46):
knew that. But Susan and Mike had paid off that
house and it was worth about three hundred thousand dollars
and it would be all his if Susan died, so
he Mike claims he has nothing to do with it,
but there's no signs of fourth entry at Susan's home,
and the secure already record showed someone had disabled the
alarm while Susan was at work. Mike later said he
had just dropped the note off, but they were like,

(46:08):
you let this fucking killer inside, and he's like, no, no,
I didn't.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
Oh the note was like his cover of like the
yeahs that I was there, but it wasn't my thing.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
I was there and I disabled the alarm, but it
was so I could leave this note. And they're like, yeah,
but clearly you just fucking let this guy in at
the same time.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
And also, if they're getting a divorced or divorced, why
would she give a shit if he's going somewhere like right,
tell me when you get back that you went somewhere. Right.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
No, it's very it's very stupid. Yeah, so blah blah blah,
all these other little things happen, and we know it's him.
The promise was a fifty thousand dollars pay day for
this The dude who killed her, who got killed. On
August thirtieth, two thousand and seven, Mike pleads guilty to solicituding.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Solicituding maybe Susan's.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Murder, Okay, and that so. The hitman's aunt writes a
letter to Susan in twenty ten, after all this takes place, saying,
although this was a terrible thing that happened, no one
in this family has any bad feelings towards you.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
You did what you were forced to.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Do, and in doing so, you spared many from the
same trauma you experience.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
That's right. Oh my god, that's incredible. I know.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
So Susan filed for divorce the day after Mike's arrest.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Oh they were just separated.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yeah, they hadn't divorced yet, Okay, okay, And by twenty fourteen,
she had moved to a new Portland home and like
a crazy out of the way cul de sac, she said,
she felt like a quote a broken plate glued back together,
like she's just it's so sweet that she's so fucking
heartbroken about having to kill someone, even though the person
she killed out of self defense was the person who

(47:44):
was sent to murder.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Her, that person who attempted to murder her.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah, she's a badass and she's justified as fuck, and
what an amazing person. And we all hope that we
would act the same way in such a situation, and
we're in awe of her that she fucking did that,
and it doesn't really feel that way. I think when
it happens is what this shows us.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Right, it's like, first that's that's the effect that has
on us as first person.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Especially as a nurse who's like trained to save lives.
That's her point in life.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And she's and she understands why
people get into the situation where they're like, I'm doing
so much coke, I think it's okay to kill something. Yeah,
claw hammer, Yeah the worst.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
So so she she's super parent with this time. She says,
I'm doing a life sentence for picking a bad husband,
which is like, don't put that on you.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah, we're all broken plates, that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
We're all broken place.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
We're all broken plate.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
We've never been whole plates. Yeah maybe right when we
were born.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
But yeah somewhere around. Yeah, I mean it's different from
everybody too.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
Like this podcast, for me, I would say it was
it really was preteen.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
That's when the game broke. I was just like, what
the fuck is happening?

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah? I see that. I think when we first have memories,
like you have a memory because something happens true, you know, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
Yeah, I think, I mean five or six, I think
for me.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
But her, Yeah, that experience would be that's something you
really have to work through.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Yes, So Mike is supposed to be released on September fourteenth,
twenty fourteen, So she's freaking the fuck out. She puts
gravel all around her house so she can hear any footsteps.
She practiced shooting out of shooting range, and she said
if he came here, he was not going to get
close enough to hurt me. So can you imagine how

(49:39):
terrifying that is? Ye? Then, ninety two days before his release,
on Friday the thirteenth of twenty fourteen, Mike died of
prostate cancer in prison at sixty five years old.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Shit.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
Yeah, So her name is now Susan Walters. She continued
to work as a nurse until December twenty fourteen, and
today she's a motivation speaker and provides self defense expertise
for Portland's for Portland police Bureaus, Women's Strength and girl
strength programs. Yes, and she's a go to expert on

(50:11):
victims fucking rights. Yeah, she's an advocate and focus it's
on developing a web based portal for crime victims. That
portal provides a protected single point for victims to receive
updates about their offenders. So, you know, like the people
who are like, no one fucking told me he was
getting out of prison, or today was his fucking parole hearing,
I could have gone to and said what happened? You know,

(50:32):
you can follow that now. Yeah, that's a amazing.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
That's so important.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
Victims of crime, crime in Maul, oh, god, everyone Malt
and Malnoma, Maltnomah County is that right, can now follow
their case, their offenders and access resources through the website.
It's casecompanion dot org. And I think every fucking city
should have this. That's incredible, And she said, Susan says,

(50:58):
surviving the event itself is difficult cult. Surviving a prolonged
and protracted criminal justice journey is also equally hard, Yeah,
which we like totally. That's amazing. So she said, being
an imperfect woman, I married an imperfect man, thinking that
we could love, honor and negotiate and have a good
life together, but he had issues around abandonment, anger, and

(51:21):
anxiety that he couldn't overcome.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
She says that she.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
And the family of my hopes that he finds the
piece he didn't find in this world, oh, in death.
And that's the story of badass fucking Susan Kuhnhausen. Wow,
that's amazing, And there's a survivor I survived about it. Yeah,
that's good. I watched when it's good. But there's another
story in it. One of the other two stories that's

(51:48):
really fucking depressing, which one it's a girl who's closing
up like the store she works in and gets held
up and like they never found the person. It's just
like really and she's so fragile and like clearly like
not ready to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Yeah, there's that show is so good. It's so perfectly produced,
it's so well done. But there are I would say
about five where I watch and go isn't ready and
isn't it's beautiful that they're doing it for themselves, because
I bet it's a great step for them.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
And for other I'm sure other people listen to it
and hear it and see this woman telling the story
and they're so empowered by her. Yeah, but she just
seems so fragile, and it was it made me really sad.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
But it's also the reality of it. Yeah, it's the
reality of it totally is Yeah. I yeah, it's so good.
That show is incredible.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
And then there was a family who's fucking boat like capsized.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
Cool too, I dipped into a frozen river. It's like, okay,
and I feel bad for you. But there's a woman
who's fighting off a fucking claw hammer. We need to
get back to her, can we real quick? Real quick?
Those are always this at end. First, do you notice
that the boat people the boat capsite, they get rescued,
and then they're like, well, God helped me out of

(53:08):
the ocean. Awesome, we'll talk to you later. Hey, Susan,
what did God not help you out of?

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Can you tell us God help them out of the ocean?

Speaker 2 (53:18):
What did you ever do? She's like, well, I became
an emergency room nurse and fucking nailed some shit to
the wall.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Yeah she did.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Oh it's intense. Yeah, all right, Well I went a
little cultie with mine for this week. Good, I think
because somebody recommended on Twitter, and I'm sorry I didn't
write your name down because I get very uh defensive

(53:47):
when people recommend British procedurals to me, as you know,
because I'm always like, how dare you come to me
at a wall under recommendation? But we've talked about this
a lot, but I still like it.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
Let's talk about it more, let's really do a deep dive.
This is about you.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
But somebody recommended a show called Silent Witness and it
is basically a it's like a law and Order in
England where there are on iTunes. It's season one through
four and then season like seventeen through twenty nine like
it's been on four. It's a procedural time, it's a
procedural and it's basically about the corner and the medical

(54:23):
examiner and who's the silent witness the corner corner medical
examiner or maybe the dead body dead body any answers Anyway,
it's a cat. There's a cat that lives in corners.
Cat like a Badega cat, but in the word just
as up on a shelf.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Can I just say there's a there's an instagram called
Bodega Cats of Instagram. Yeah, and it's made me never
want to eat out a bodega again because just the photos.
I mean, they're adorable. But cat's assholes on everything on Adego.
Like any fucking bag of Guardettos, fucking chips, you get
the cat's and adega cat's asshole.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Do a quick chlorox wipe rints on the outside of
that bag.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
I can never lick a bag of Gordettas again.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
That's how you pick what flavor you want, because you
lick the outside.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
It tastes like what they're supposed to taste like, right.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
I guess that's right. The outside tastes like the inside,
just like people. I love fucking New York City bodegas
so much as a country girl who we always lived
five miles away from anything good when I lived in
New York, the idea that I could walk down the
stairs from my apartment and literally forty feet to the

(55:35):
corner and go in and get a bag of taats.
They always have tasts, they always have hair.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Boca weird like brand of ice cream sandwiches.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Yep. And the word bodega sounds so cool. It sounds
very much like Hi, I'm an art student. I sometimes
free based coke. But I also just love to come
and get an Italian sub sandwich. Oh yeah, okay, So
anyway I went. I went because I had watched I
think four seasons of Silent Witness and there were some

(56:04):
it's such it's very dramatically produced, and there's a lot
of like her just standing over a dead body being like, uh,
you know the victim is in a in rigor where
you're like, okay, this is very real, Like yeah, it's
because it's boring. It's a touch boring, get it. They're
not afraid to go boring in English, because that's what
it's really like, because it's real. There's one where it

(56:26):
was about a bunch of people who died on a
boat and then every time so they were just sitting
there waiting at the harbor, waiting for the dead bodies
to get transported in from the ocean, and then every
time it would there would just be this terrible horn
that would sound, and I was like, I bet this
is what really happens. This is awful, like it is
when I turn it off exactly because you're like, I
don't want to experience this. Maybe it will happen to

(56:48):
me someday. So how about I don't go through it now, right,
I don't want to hear.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Oh go ahead, in my fucking show that I'm watching,
why do.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
They keep driving dead bodies up in these jeloppies. It's
not funny, it's not I don't appreciate it, Okay. So anyway,
I had a lot of that. So then I was like,
let's take a nice left turn and go into a
little cult area. Great, and I thought about the one
that I've always been obsessed with, which is the Order
of the Solar Temple.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
So this was the one where on October fourth, nineteen
ninety four, and this was on so remember back ninety four,
remember it? It was on all the news.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
I don't remember this, Okay, get ready.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
Because you might as I encourage you to yell out
when you remember.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
I'm going to You don't have to encourage me, okay.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
So October fourth, nineteen ninety four. It's a place called
Morn I'm assuming it's pronounced more in Heights. It's a
ski resort near Montreal, and authorities are called to the
scene of a burning condominium and when they get inside
put the fire out, they find two charred dead bodies.
So they look up who owns the condominium and on

(57:59):
the whatever mortgage papers, don't oh this the signage pai area. Yeah, uh,
the owners are two men, Joseph de Mombro and Luke Gerret,
So they assume that's these two charred bodies are the owners.
But then as the investigators make their way through the

(58:22):
burnt condominium apartment, they find three more bodies in the
back in the back of the house in like stacked
in a closet, and those bodies are identified as a
man named Tony Dutoit or Dutois, and his wife Nikki
and their three month old son, Christopher Emmanuel.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Are they burned too or they're burned?

Speaker 2 (58:45):
But then once the investigators start looking into it, they
realize that the front two bodies and the back bodies
are all covered in blood, so before they burned, they
were covered in blood. So then they're like, something actually
happened here. Well, then on Tony's body, he was stabbed

(59:06):
over fifty times in the back, holy shit. Nikki was
stabbed in the chest and like upper body area, like
six or seven times. Oh my god, this is the
worst part. The baby was stabbed in the heart with
a wooden steak. So they're like, what kind of occult
shit is going on here?

Speaker 1 (59:27):
I have never heard this before.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
It's it's shitty, tell me everything, Okay. So then they
realized that one of the two bodies that they found
originally up in the front of the house, one of
them is a woman. So they're like, I don't think
this is the owners. Something insane happened here, so that
they pull out. They put out arrest warrants for the

(59:49):
owners because they had. The police discover that all five
of these people were members of the Order of the
Solar Temple, which was a very secretive sec founded by
the two men on the owner's papers, Joseph de Mombro
and Luke Cherat. Then the police find out that Tony
and his wife Nikki had recently left the cult after

(01:00:11):
speaking out against these leaders, and so that's when the
cops are like, okay, we got to arrest these guys,
but they're nowhere to be found. The next day or
it's the same let's see, it's October fifth in the
Swiss village of Cirie is how it's pronounced. There's a
farmhouse that's on fire, and when the firemen in this

(01:00:36):
Swiss village, go there and put it out. They find
the owner inside. He's slumped over the kitchen table and
there's a plastic bag over his head. So they think,
oh no, he's an elderly farmer and he's committed suicide.
Then they find a gunshot wound in the back of
his head and they're like, uh oh. So then they

(01:00:57):
as they inspect the house, they start finding in SENDI
your devices all over the house, and then they start
looking in the outbuildings on the property. So there's more
buildings aside from the farmhouse. They start to investigate these buildings.
They also have these incendiary devices in them, and one
of them, one of the cops, observes that the outside

(01:01:21):
of the building is really big, but when they go in,
it's really small. There's just a small space and it's
like an office that looks really busy. It looks like
there's people that come there to work every day or whatever,
but it's compared to the outside. They're like, they start
looking for secret panels and they find one, and basically
what happens is an entire section of wall is found

(01:01:43):
to be able to slide back. Oh my god, on
the other side, of this wall, they find a huge
secret chamber. It's decorated floor to ceiling in red. No,
it has these weird mirrors on every wall that at
the top are kind of shaped little bit like I
don't know what the word is. It's like that, you know,
like the top of a Turkish turret or whatever, where

(01:02:05):
it look looks like a Hershey's kiss, but swoopy fatter.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Anyway, it's all like ritualized. There's weird these weird stands,
like lecterns that are gold that are in there, and
there's and then they they so basically it's all obviously
used for some kind of religious rites, straight up CULTI bullshit,
some CULTI bullshit. There's champagne bottles on the ground and

(01:02:33):
in the middle of the floor arranged in a like
star formation feet in the center head of the outside
are eighteen corpses, eighteen eighteen. They're all wearing either red,
gold or black ceremonial capes, and some have plastic bags

(01:02:54):
over their heads. Then they find another a second secret room.
There's three more bodies inside that room, and there's a
ton of blood in both rooms. So the police basically
start putting.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Together imagine stumbling upon that No, it's a something on
a fucking secret hidden room. Yes, like, which is awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
The Miller coaster of emotions cop went through where he's like,
I'm the one that hey, and then they slide the
wall back and it's like, well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
Here you go, Yeah, this is what you wanted. Here's
your secret room.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Friend. So they realize that this is obviously a ritualized
mass suicide, but there's so much blood in the room.
They're like, oh, this wasn't voluntary for a lot of
these people. Yeah, and most of the people had been
killed by gunshot once to the head that were not

(01:03:47):
self inflicted. So that's how they start putting together that
this was perhaps non voluntary suicide or as we like
to call it, murter. Okay, non involved, the worst kind
of suicide, non voluntary. I am a professional psych cop. Okay.

(01:04:12):
So then two days later, one hundred miles away in
the Swiss resort village of Grange, Sir Salvan, thank you
so much. Do you know it sounds nothing like that?

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Yeah, but it sounds better when you say it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
I just I'm trying to sell it like I'm a
waitress at a fancy French cafe. Right, would you like
a croc monsieur or okay so, which is French for
a baked onion. Okay uh. The fire department is called
to now three adjacent chalets that are all on fire,
and inside each they find early similar scenes to the

(01:04:50):
Serie fire. This time twenty five.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Bodies are discovery I get.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Including three teenagers and four children. And most of these bodies,
these victims have been poisoned and they're all identified through
a dental records to also be members of the Order
of the Solar Temple. And in this situation, only fifteen
of the forty seven were true suicides. The rest were murders.

(01:05:20):
So now the search for the co founders of the
Order of the Solar Temple goes international. So basically this
cult was founded by this guy, Joseph de Moombro, who
was born in southern France. He studied to be a
clockmaker and a jeweler, but he always had interests in
the occult and when he was in his thirties he

(01:05:41):
joined the Rosicutions or the Order of the Rosy Cross.
And it's another So there's all these secret cults or
sex that are based on the Knights Templar. So the
Knights Templar were the knights who went on the first
Crusades and they came back and then they were so

(01:06:01):
dedicated to this spreading of Christianity down into the Middle
East that they began to protect. It was like they
they vowed to protect all these Christian pilgrims that were
going down into the Middle East, so they would they
basically kind of were out there protecting people. But they

(01:06:23):
also made a ton of money because of the because
of the Crusades, they were just out there, you know,
obviously killing and pillaging and doing all their stuff, so
they became very rich. Then their power, they were so
well regarded that they became really powerful, and of course
then the popes are like, who are these motherfuckers? We're
supposed to be the most powerful. So then they became

(01:06:44):
hunted and then that's when they went underground and it
was all secret, secret, secret. So that's what all these
people and that's kind of like the like the Dan
Brown books and stuff, where's all the Knights templar this,
and the Knights templar that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
If the guy, if the guy or gal who does
animate my podcast would animate that part of you telling
me explaining to me the crusade.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
Because it's I would say, I would guess right now,
and hopefully there is a history professor listening. Oh yeah,
I think I probably got that fifty seven percent right.
I think I would have passed a test, but not
well a D plus, a D plus, which is pretty
much my average.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
And it would make you happy now and the repressor
that you're not supposed to be happy about that I
thought can pass bitch.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
I passed, bitch, and I never thought I could because
I can't read. So definitely let me know all the
information I'm missing in the three hundred years that the
Knights Templar were in action. But essentially it became that thing.
And we've all seen the Dan Brown what is that
book that I can't think of? The DaVinci Code, Thank you, Steven.

(01:07:52):
Stephen loves literature. But it's just this idea that essentially
they were protecting Mary Magdalen, who was carrying Jesus's baby.
You know, that's like at the end of the day,
that is supposedly the uh what do they call that?
The Truth? The Bible?

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
Uh? Christianity?

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
What's the cup? The kiddish cup? Thank you? The Holy
Grail is Jesus's baby, right, It's also called the kiddish cup.
We had it first. Oh that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
So don't come at me with a fucking yeah, you explained.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
It to me. I don't fucking know what's going on anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
This is a religion podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
It's all about secrets. They based this whole thing on,
like secrets, hidden treasure, hidden money, making sure that they
could always kind of get this the Christianity where they
needed it to go, okay, and have missionaries protected.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
Okay, so secret societies are like, got to keep it,
keep up with the Christians.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
Right, But then, as we know, when things are secret,
then little power structures come up. And then suddenly you've
got two people that are like, well, I'm in charge
of this secret sect, and now I've decided we're gonna
do a little something extra. We're gonna wash everybody's feet
in a bucket, right, we're gonna do They start adding
their own shit, and it's like, no longer are you
a Knight's templar.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
Now you're a foot washer.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
Now you're some kind of like I feel like everyone,
every woman needs to fuck me before we start this ceremony.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
How many times have I said this fuck the government,
and I'll say it again. This is not my fucking phrase.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Ellis fucking knows. He's like, I'm sick of you saying.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
He knows, he's so sick of it. Okay, So anyhow,
I lost my place entirely.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
Okay, that's what this podcast is called.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Where am I?

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Where He?

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
In nineteen seventy three, Joseph Demombro moves to the Swiss border.
He starts a group called the Center for the Preparation
of the New Age. Okay, hot stuff is happening in
this group. Let's get together, let's weave some looms, let's
fucking make pottery, let's talk about the Knights Templars seventy
three Okay. And he begins to tell his followers or

(01:10:14):
the people in the group that he is the reincarnation
of the god o Cyrus and of Moses. And then
he starts telling them, you're the reincarnation of Napoleon, and
you're the reincarnation of Cleopatra, and everybody's the reincarnation of
some famous political leader or royalty of some kind. Doubt it.
And then he starts telling them he's the one that's

(01:10:38):
going to decide who's having a relationship with who, because
he's the only one who knows who they were originally were,
and now we have this chance to breed a master
race of children, so let's make sure that like Cleopatra
has sex with Napoleon or whatever. He's making up all
this shit and people like, yes, sounds good. Everyone's like, yeah,
we want to bone, Yeah, we want to bone, and
we want to be death famous people. Right, So he

(01:11:02):
basically is like, I'm in charge of who gets married.
I'm in charge of who gets to have children. So
it becomes he goes from like we're a group that
gets together to talk about how grab the Knights Templar are,
and now it's like I control every aspect of your life,
which is how it always goes. Even though that's how
intense and bizarre it was. All these respected citizens and
extremely wealthy people join this thing because it's all about

(01:11:26):
the He sells this idea that you, if you give
enough money, you can like absorb the spirituality and power
of the Knights Templar. It's this honorable society and you
join it and you're forwarding the Christian movement or what
I don't know, whatever, so because.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
Rich people get bored is really what that means.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
They get bored and we all want guarantees, right, so
it's like, I'm going to give this guy who claims
to be what he also claimed to be the reincarnation
of a fourteenth century night night templar whatever. And then
the other guy, Luke Jera, he claimed to be the
third incarnation of Jesus Christ. He went straight to the top.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
Oh man, Yeah, So.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
Basically people are getting into it, and at that time
he changed the name Joseph Demmbro. In nineteen seventy eight
changes the name to the Foundation of the Golden Way.
He takes a core group of the followers and is like,
we're super into this, let's go start the Foundation of
the Golden Way. And in that group, that's when Luke
Jura shows up. He is Luke Xuray was born in

(01:12:35):
the Belgian Congo. He studied to be an actual doctor.
Then he decides he's not into like traditional medicines and
he wants to be an alternative healer. So then he
starts getting really into holistic medicine and really into New
Age shit, and he starts he becomes like a star
on the New age circuit. He's the one that, like
in the mid late seventies, is out there telling everybody,

(01:12:58):
here's how you tap into your inner the godd o
Cyrus or whatever the fuck it is.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
You stop worrying about gas. You don't have to worry
about gas prices and fucking having a job and money,
right because you're wealthy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
Yeah, don't worry about any of the things that everybody
else in Jimmy Carter's America are freshing out about. Don't
worry about it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Yeah, because you have enough money. So come join a.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
Cult, Come secret sect with us. Yeah. So when they
meet Joe Dimambro knows that this guy, he's like the
face man, He's going to be the perfect pitch man
for their new cult, which they in nineteen eighty four
basically reconfigure. Yeah, it's going on for so long. They
reconfigure and call themselves the Order of the Solar Temple.

(01:13:39):
So that's when Luke Jerai comes into Joe Demombro's life.
That's when it all clicks.

Speaker 1 (01:13:44):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
So basically, uh, they in this group, they have these
rituals that are based on ancient Christian and Masonic rites.
It's all secret. So all the members are secret. All
that you know, nobody tells an anybody else that they're
in this group. And at its height, they had lodges
in Canada, Australia, Switzerland and Martinique.

Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
I mean, I'll join just to fucking go on, Baker, I.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
Mean, right, you know, to just go to an island
and then pretend you're Cleopatra skiing and shit skiing and Martinique.
So that was a joke everybody. I know. Martinique is
a beautiful island. So soon the topic changes. And when
I say soon, I mean after seven years or whatever the
fuck son, these people stay in this weird cult. They

(01:14:33):
start sending this message that an apocalypse is coming. It's
an environmental apocalypse. Man has caused it. It's man's fault
that it's going to happen, and only the elite are
going to survive it. Great, So if you want to
be in that group, why don't you kick down all
of the money that you have. No, Yeah, they make
everybody give them all of their money. Yeah, and it's

(01:14:55):
this insurance. So eventually that message becomes the reason that
you should trust us. Is that Joe's daughter, whose name
was Emmanuel, she was one of nine existing cosmic children
who would lead them all to a planet that was
next to the star Serius and his son, also Eli.

(01:15:18):
I believe his name was his destiny. Eli's destney was
to usher in the New Age. So luckily the leader
of this cult two children were the key pieces to
get them to So basically, the Earth was going to
end for environmental reasons, and then they were going to
travel via the a Path of Fire to a planet

(01:15:40):
that's next to the Star series.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
Everyone's like, it's crazy, it's crazy, and I want to.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
Be like, how the fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
But like, there's there's the podcast Heaven's Gate that's like
super good. That like my sad retelling of the Heaven's
Gate story last week before the podcast came out, By
the way, I just I didn't know about it yet.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
It was good.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
They like focus on a couple actual cult members and
explain how it happened, and you kind of get it
a little more. But it's just so bananas and bonkers.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
I think it comes down to that feeling of like
when life is feels really plain all the time, and
then you get introduced to an idea of your.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
Special and there's more than there's more than this, and
you're correct. Everyone else is going along with their everyday
life and.

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
They're all lemmings. Your special. I see how special you are.
Come in do my ritual.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
Yeah, let me shin. I have I have knowledge, Yeah,
I had, and that I will impart onto you. Yes, listen,
I'm starting a call right now.

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
Yeah, I mean, I'm believing you in here are you
the gott Osiris.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
I have Elvis sitting on my lap staring at me.

Speaker 2 (01:16:44):
She is petting a cat in a kind of evil
cult like.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
Way yep, okay, I just uncrossed his eyes.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
It's a miracle.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
She's real.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
Yeah. So okay. So basically this is that's goes on
so long that of course nothing ends up happening. And
the members are like, yeah, okay, you've been talking about
this apocalypse.

Speaker 1 (01:17:07):
For a while.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
Nothing's going on, and I've given you like millions.

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
Of the apocalypse happened.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
Yeah, I want I want everyone else to die. I
want to see what you're talking about. I want these
things to happen. Well. Also, meanwhile, they started getting, of
course super crazy with their power. They were buying houses everywhere.
They had everybody's money. So they're out like they've got
houses here, and you know, as you saw chalets and
condos in every city.

Speaker 1 (01:17:32):
They're hiding fucking rooms they've.

Speaker 2 (01:17:34):
Got they can build things that look like small rooms
but that are actually big rooms. It's crazy, and so
the members are like, yeah, you seem to be getting
a lot of stuff, but like all of our you know,
it's on our dime.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
So then Luke Gera is voted out as grand Master
of the Canadian branch of the Temples. Home is he
because he starts to demand that that one woman has
sex with him before every ritual for his to build strength,
and everyone's like okay, but he he's getting everyone started.

(01:18:15):
He's like all the members are like, you're losing your
ship and it's obvious and it's creepy. So then he
gets voted out. Well then Joe Demombro is just like, wait, no,
it's our colt, Like, you can't get voted out. What
are you doing.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
This isn't a fucking fantasy island or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:18:34):
Yeah you mean survivor Yes, yes you knew. Just as
a bit of information, Luke Jerie. It shouldn't be a
surprise that he lost his shit because before joining the
Order of the Solar Temple. He belonged to a racist,
neo Nazi magical organization co founded by a former Gestapo
officer named Julian Origis. And he was also an illegal

(01:18:57):
arms dealer, so he wasn't a great like, he wasn't
a nice.

Speaker 1 (01:19:01):
A little background check, rich people.

Speaker 2 (01:19:03):
Yeah, are you a good guy? Can you write a horse?
Are you an arms dealer? These things should disqualify you.
So then this is all building, right, So they're like
slightly losing control. It's like, oh no, no, focus on
my cosmic daughter or whatever. Then in February of nineteen
ninety three, it's the fifty four day Siege of Waco.

(01:19:24):
Oh shit, right, So on all of our TVs we
all saw the branch, Davidians and David Koresh and everything.
We saw that whole thing go up in flames.

Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
Is that going to be a podcast soon or a
TV show? I think it's a TV show, a documentary.

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
I think it's one of those American crimes or something
writing experience. I want to see a doctor.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
Oh that'd be fun.

Speaker 2 (01:19:53):
Just the longest American dad of all time. He works
with the CIA. So okay, so after that happens and everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
Watched it on TV and everyone's like, oh, no more
cults for me, exactly. I think I've had enough.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
Is the funniest thing.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
In the world to me.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
Where they're like, oh, this is where we're headed. We're
not actually headed to a planet next to the Star series.
We're just gonna burn government style, right, fuck the government. Listen,
it's the government, okay, so please.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
Please don't hurt me. Government.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
That won't work, so you feel it. This is my
favorite part. So as all of this is right, it's crumbling.
It's crumbling our millions, you know, people are walking away
our secret. And they really did have They had millionaires,
they had scientists, they had famous architects. There was people
in this cult, very high level people, a very famous
Swiss composer.

Speaker 1 (01:20:45):
So it's like a bunch of smarty.

Speaker 2 (01:20:47):
Pants smarty pants and richies.

Speaker 1 (01:20:49):
Smart and richie fucking asshole.

Speaker 2 (01:20:51):
I mean, the whole place smelled like fucking after shade.
So what am me saying? So Okay, then they discover
so our friend Tony Dutoi Dutois I don't remember how
I pronounced it, the man who has found stab fifty
times in the apartment in Canada.

Speaker 1 (01:21:11):
And baby and his wife and baby.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
Okay, So it turns out he was a longtime member
of the Order of the Solar Temple and he discovered
so they would have these rights and rituals, and when
Joe Dimambro did them, he could make things fly, he
could make things like appear out of nowhere. There's all
these weird things he did that made people believe that

(01:21:34):
he was special and had special powers. Well, it turns
out Tony Dutois discovers that he was using lasers and holograms. No,
and he was second ninety I'm impressed by that. In
ninety four, yeah, even earlier. Yeah, he basically set it
up so the whole thing was like special effects and
fog and light show or whatever, and made people believe

(01:21:57):
it was his power and he was spending he was
spending their money, a ton of money, because you know,
a hologram back then was very expensive.

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
It's basically like coach a coach ella fucking DJ set.

Speaker 2 (01:22:08):
Yeah, but just him and twelve people in robes. So
Tony finds out about this and starts going, you guys,
this is super fake. This is the whole thing is
a fraud, to the point where and so much like
distrust and uh, disillusion was going through the whole cult,

(01:22:29):
down to Joe Demambro's own children, who were like, my
dad's a fraud. Like everybody was.

Speaker 1 (01:22:34):
Starting to bath. Not a space cadet, and my dad
is lying.

Speaker 2 (01:22:37):
I can't lead you to that planet. No, but that's
my favorite that It was like the the straw that
broke the camel's back was that his holograms and lasers
were discovered. Yeah, so then everyone's just bailing like crazy, Okay,
so then uh he so basically Tony tells everybody and

(01:22:59):
then like gets out of town. So Joe Demambro announced
to the remaining members that the dutois three month old
son was the Antichrist and needed to be assassinated. Yes,
that's so. The two bodies that were in that condo
from the beginning of the story turned out to be
thirty five year old Jerry Janeau and sixty sixty year

(01:23:21):
old Collette Jennet. They murdered the Dutoise, murdered that baby,
and then committed suicide and lit that apartment on fire
with thecendiary device that was like all the incendiary devices
in Switzerland. Yes, so what awful awful people so crazy,

(01:23:42):
and then like once they knew that was happening, they
know it's over. So they announced to the rest of
the membership that the apocalypse has arrived and it's time
for all of them to travel to the planet next
to the star Serius. Let's go. So it's mass suicide time.
And because they were saying the transformation takes place in fire,

(01:24:05):
that's why all those in scendiary device, that's where all
the buildings were burning.

Speaker 1 (01:24:09):
So what were the in sandiary devices made of? Do
you know?

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
I don't like in my mind, it looks like a
light switch with the plate off the front.

Speaker 1 (01:24:17):
Yeah, and like there's a little thing tied to this
thing and a little and.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
Then a mouse choose the road, yes, right, and then boom.

Speaker 1 (01:24:26):
Yeah, but the mouse survives, that's right. Mouse is fine.

Speaker 2 (01:24:29):
The mouse is innocent. And then a cat swoops down
and eats the mouse.

Speaker 1 (01:24:34):
Yay.

Speaker 2 (01:24:35):
So it was at that farmhouse from the beginning in
Siri where Joe Demombro and Luke Jerra met their and
along with twenty one other member so they were okay,
they were in SyRI then okay. So that was basically
the reason that it's so amazing to me is because
I remember very distinctly when I saw it on the news.

(01:24:56):
They were so vague, and it's still you can barely
get any good information. I never heard of this what
was really happening, But I remember seeing it on the
news and being like, I want to know more, and
all you ever heard was so. Then again, in nineteen
ninety five in Grenoble, they find sixteen bodies out in

(01:25:16):
the forest. What uh huh? They in an area they
called Hell's, Hell's Entrance or Hell's whole or something which
is super creepy. And the creep that you can see
a picture online. It's a forest, there's police tape. It
looks like it's from like a helicopter. There's police tape,
and then there it just looks like there's a weird
orange light. It's super creepy.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
I I fucking google weird murders, weird deaths, weird what
the fuck you know all the time, and I've never
heard of this.

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
Fold some nights, templar in there, fold in cult okay,
fold in. Well, so in that forest there were sixteen bodies.
And this is a year later. Then two years after that,
in Quebec, in March of ninety seven, five people are
found dead, and at the last minute, three children who
were supposed to also die convince their parents who ended

(01:26:09):
up dead, convinced their parents that they wanted to live,
and their parents let them go. So three kids escaped.

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
I want to interview them, right, they're still killing themselves
even though it's over.

Speaker 2 (01:26:23):
Yes, two years later by who like, why so crazy?
Or three years later? So the total number deaths in
the Order of the Solar Temple is seventy four. Jesus
and their members included scientists, architects, policemen, and children, and
the group had between four and six hundred members. It's

(01:26:45):
estimated to have made in its prime ninety three million dollars.
And in the Grenoble scene where in nineteen ninety five
where they found sixteen bodies, the wife of famous champion
skier Jean Varnay, who was the inventor of the awesome
eighties sunglasses. His wife, Edith and their youngest son Patrick

(01:27:08):
were among the sixteen victims. So they couldn't have been richer.
Those people they had. Varnay in the eighties was like,
you couldn't be richer.

Speaker 1 (01:27:16):
Are they the ones with the swoopy thing? Here. It's
a weird thing here.

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):
No, Varnays were like the kind of the original ski sunglasses,
So they were mirrored and they were like kind of plastic.

Speaker 1 (01:27:24):
Yeah, every douche fucking skier. Yeah, instructor has this.

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
Rich guys. We went skiing the first time we went
to Tahoe when I was eight. They made us take
ski lessons and my sister had a pair of Varnais on,
and I, instead of listening to the ski instructor, just
kept staring at myself in the mirrored reflection of my
sister's sunglasses. So I didn't listen to how to stop
or what to do. And so basically we went down

(01:27:49):
one run and I was like, I need to take
these off. I'm leaving. Yeah, I'm not doing this. I
don't know what's now. And then we just played in
the snow all day exactly. Here's the more interesting one.
Channel four, the British TV station, they made a documentary
alleging that Grace Kelly, the Princess of Monica, was also

(01:28:10):
initiated into the Order of the Solar Temple just months
before her car accident that took her life. Yeah, she
was in a car accident. Some say she was not
in that car. Some say the body was never found,
but her estate denies any association with the Order of
the Solar Temple. But the filmmakers who made this documentary
for Channel four talked to the acupuncturists who worked on

(01:28:32):
Princess Grace before her orientation or not orientation initiation ceremony,
and because apparently they did acupuncture to relax people so
that they weren't like freaked out, I guess, And that
woman attested to the fact that it was Princess Grace,
but didn't want to give her name or information because
she's scared, because she says that the Order of the

(01:28:55):
Solar Temple is still in effect today, still has members,
and she's scared of those members coming to retaliate.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
Against tiding out in plain sights.

Speaker 2 (01:29:07):
And so the very last thing is when Princess Grace's
car crashed in Monaco, her car landed in the yard
of a member of the Order of the Solar Temple.

Speaker 1 (01:29:20):
Bean.

Speaker 2 (01:29:23):
Yeah, that was good. That was a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:29:25):
That was a really good one. Shit, dude, I know,
I want to know everything. I want to know what
these people talked about. There's photos. Are their pictures?

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
Yes, there's pictures of uh and it's all the faces
are blacked out. There's black bars across the eyes of
like an actual ritual. But then there's the empty room
where they found the bodies they I know, the ones
I saw. It was just the room without the bodies
lying in it. But then you can also see there's
like graphs of how they laid out the bodies in

(01:29:55):
star formation. Yes, and I think the one the people
that killed themselves last in nineteen ninety seven in Canada
were laid out in a crucifix for me. So the
people who.

Speaker 1 (01:30:07):
Unintentional suicide most people did they did they ever figure
out if they like were just like kill me or
they were like held hostage or because like I could
see people like I don't want to kill myself, but
just shoot me in the back of the head. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:30:21):
I think what they were saying is that theory is
that it wasn't they were like, I don't want to
do this. They went there for other reasons. Some of
them think they were drugged or poisoned, but then it
was then they fought them because there was so much
blood that it wasn't just like putting people down in
an orderly fashion. There was like it was a real
bloody crime scene. So they think it was. That's what

(01:30:44):
led them to believe it was the against against your
will suicide. That's crazy, fucking nuts, man, live secret cults. Secret.
Where is the treasure? There's treasure Trazier. Oh yeah, the
nights templar they put supposedly that's like nick cage style.

(01:31:06):
They supposedly.

Speaker 1 (01:31:07):
How is that what that is?

Speaker 2 (01:31:08):
Yeah? Because they went and pillaged everything down in like
the Holy Land.

Speaker 1 (01:31:11):
They stole all the ship, they stole the ship and
the fucking Jewish people.

Speaker 2 (01:31:14):
What's that's right?

Speaker 1 (01:31:15):
That's right, chosen ones.

Speaker 2 (01:31:17):
So it's your it's your birthright. Mm hmm to go
and find that those gold ba balloons and take them back.
Let's do it. I would love to.

Speaker 1 (01:31:27):
Let's go on an adventure.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
Okay, okay, goodbye bye.

Speaker 1 (01:31:33):
That was amazing, Thank you, thank you for that.

Speaker 2 (01:31:35):
Absolutely love a cult.

Speaker 1 (01:31:37):
What did we well, we've come to the end, my friends.

Speaker 2 (01:31:41):
Oh yeah, what's a do you have a fun thing
for this week?

Speaker 1 (01:31:43):
A thing that made me happy?

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:31:45):
Now do you well? I do? Actually, okay, great, maybe
it'll inspire me.

Speaker 2 (01:31:50):
Okay, good, But this is a it's a repeat of
what I've done before, but it's a kind of an
update and it's very exciting because my favorite band, and
now many other people's favorite band, Sure Shore, finally came
out with an album. It's self titled. It says sure Shore.
You can get it on Spotify, you can get it
on iTunes, and it is so goddamn good. It's all
the like single releases that they had before, and then

(01:32:13):
a bunch of new songs I've never heard before that
are so beautiful and it's just great. I just got
it and I love it so well.

Speaker 1 (01:32:21):
If we're gonna do this will be the music perfect thing.
Vince got us ticket. So Vince surprised me with tickets
to go see the band Jawbreaker Night, which I'm like,
super excited to go see them. I've never I've never
seen them play. I've been in love with them forever.
Great old band. Everyone go listen. But it's also I

(01:32:44):
love that Vince does shit like that and it's really
sweet and like I would never go see music or
anything live, but Vince is like into that shit. Yeah,
So like he does it and then I'm like, what
didn't I do this more? And I know yeah, So
it's nice to tell you.

Speaker 2 (01:32:58):
Have friends like me that are like I'm tell you.

Speaker 1 (01:33:01):
Well, you know, I'm not gonna go that night like
that night, I'm gonna be sick like I am every night.

Speaker 2 (01:33:06):
But it's sweet that he did it. It's so good.
Oh wait, so it's future. You haven't done it yet.

Speaker 1 (01:33:09):
Yeah, I haven't done yet. He just bought tickets to go
to see Job Breaker.

Speaker 2 (01:33:12):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:33:12):
And you know, twenty something year old Georgia is like,
you put it on the radio today and I got
really excited.

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
Yes, that's exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:33:21):
Yeah, all right, thanks for listening to you GUYI guys,
thanks for once again going through that with us. We
have had it up to here with not going through
this with you because we love it so much.

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
It's very fun. It's a very fun job. And on
our on our two year anniversary, thank you honey so much,
Thank you so much. We're fucking lucky. This is the
best ever. It's crazy, lucky, wonderful. Yeah, thanks everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:33:50):
Thanks Steven, Thanks Steven, well, thank you more in six months. Yeah,
when you've earned it, When you've earned it, when you've
fucking been through the ship, like we have the real ship.

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
When you finally fucked the government the way we need
you to.

Speaker 1 (01:34:03):
Elvis knows. He's been here from the beginning.

Speaker 2 (01:34:06):
He was he was here before us.

Speaker 1 (01:34:07):
Yeah, he'll be here after us.

Speaker 2 (01:34:09):
He will remain after we have gone.

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
Is that it I?

Speaker 2 (01:34:13):
That's it all right? Well, then stay sexy and don't
get murdered. Bye Elvis Cookie. Yeah, yeah,