540 - Battery and Rock Night - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia hartste
that's Karen kil Kara.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Just a just a just your microphone. Here we are
with our microphone.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Microphones are a big part of podcasting, ladies and gentlemen,
kind of the only part really.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, they do more than we do.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah. Once you have a microphone, you're basically a professional
podcast You never give it up.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
You never shut the fuck up. You never can shut
it down.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Do you remember when the way I used to shake
the old microphone stang?

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Do you remember when we were amateur podcasters.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Do you remember when you were the sound guy? Stephen
was just a gleam.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
In our eye? I do.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
So this funny thing happened to me, This funny thing happened. Okay,
guys reading this, you're doing bits bits. Yes, I'm listening
to a book. Or I listened to a book that
I totally it was great. It's a one of the
drinking alcoholics memoirs that I loved so much, called Drinking
a Love Story by Caroline Knapp. It's from the nineties,
so I thought it'd be dated. No, it's life changing.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Is this the one where there's a scene where she
jumps on her boyfriend's back like that, I don't, and
they crash. She has her friend's children, and she crashes
like that, Oh, her friend's children.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, it's so good. It's changed a lot of things.
I have not every drink since I listen.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Are you serious? Yes, it's been eight days.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
But the weird thing about the audio book is that
it's read by the same woman who read I'll Be
Gone in the Dark. No, her name's Gabra Zachman. She's
like a famous audiobook narrator. But I'm listening to this
like sobriety book, and I'm expecting someone to break into
the house in the middle of the night and murder everyone.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
It's really you listen to I'll Be Gone in the
Dark so many times, so many.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Times, it's just really like jarring and also like I've
ruined everything for myself for crime essentially.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
I mean, it is what we do. Yeah, it's how
it is. Yeah, I think that's so funny. That's like
I wonder if that person probably has the most insane
range of books, and it's like, oh, I can do
more than just these two things. But I remember that
there was a couple of those at the time very groundbreaking. Yeah,
kind of autobiography tell alls about here's how I got

(02:23):
through this horrible thing. There was another one about eating disorders.
It's so I think no one recommends it anymore because
it's so triggering, right, it's basically someone giving you training manual.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Right. Well, she has a lot of that in there.
I mean, it's just it's a woman. It doesn't seem
like in the nineties that was discussed a lot. You
have this idea of what an alcoholic is, and it's
not a professional, smart woman from a you know, good background, right,
and it just kind of shows that it could be anyone.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, and that it builds and builds, sure does, grows
and grows.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
And the thought process behind it all is so familiar.
I was almost laughing at myself about how obvious it is.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
But yeah, you know this is the way.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, alcohol is an addictive substance. Yeah, then people get
addicted to it.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
Yeah, because for a little while you get the slippy
slide out of reality. Nice, it's real nice. It reminds
me of this morning. I could not get out of
the shower because it's we're having a very strangely cold
summer here in La and today, well, I haven't been
outside Georgia.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
I was like, it's freezing today. Did you spill? I've
spilled there?

Speaker 3 (03:28):
Oh yes, Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Next Falling Apart fan cult We've got so what's going away?

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Go what?

Speaker 2 (03:37):
I'll look at me?

Speaker 4 (03:39):
What?

Speaker 2 (03:40):
I'm still drunk? Listen. Eight days is not that long. No.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
I think the felt tablecloth will be fine.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
It'll be fine. Us leave that in please all of that.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Netflix needs to know a nice long four minute hold.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Shower.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
I can't get out of the show sometimes because it's
so warm and I don't want to be cold. I
just keep standing there forever.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Should write a memoir about not being able to get
out of the show.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
And then I'm babysitting my friend's kids, but I won't
get out of the show.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Just keep standing back. Should we just get into it? Yeah,
let's do it right. We don't have to fill. I
gave a book wreck.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
Fucking she gave a book wreck. She blew her own
dress open.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Hey, we have a podcast network. You know what it's
called exactly right media, that's right. Here are some highlights,
well we do.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Right now, have a very big summer announcement for you.
And we're very excited. It's Exactly Right's newest true crime
limited series. It's a scammer series from our friends at
Blanchard House. You know they know what they're doing.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
The show's called Royal Swindle and it follows two aussy
connwomen who scam members of British high society. It's a
wild story of greed, lies and love.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
Royal Swindle premieres on July twenty third, So go follow
the show wherever you get your podcasts, get on it early.
You are going to want to listen to all of
the episodes at once. It's an amazing story and.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
It's really helpful for you guys to follow and subscribe
and stuff. So if you are gonna listen, please go
do that now.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
Also, there's horses. Oh fuck yeah, there's horses involved. The
Horse People a Horses Siety.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Horse Serenos or Serenas.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
And if you're looking for some good news, the next
installment of Honking Horays premieres at the end.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Of this episode. Hey, you're welcome in advance.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
And hey listeners, do you know that you can also
be lookers. We are on currently Netflix along with our
other podcast, Buried Bones, So you can watch brand new
episodes of My Favorite Murder and Buried Bones every single
week right here on Netflix.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
You can see us on Netflix. It's really shocking. The
most people I run into who were like, I saw
you on Netflix.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
I thought your voice was the other one's voice. Always.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
And if you're creating even more MFM, join the fan
cult at Fancoult dot supercast dot com. You get every
episode of My Favorite Murder ad free, plus merch discounts,
exclusive audio and video content and more.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Good Night, Georgia goes first? Georgia, who goes first? I
got a big one, especially for Australians. Great shout out
across the world. Speaking of Aussie's hey, oh my good ride.
I did listeners.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
If you were watching Netflix right now, you'd know that
Georgia was getting her little glasses out of her little
glasses case. It's just like mister Roger's over here, where
George is now turning into podcast personality.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Hello, Hello, it's me podcaster Georgia. Okay, okay, stop saying okay, okay, okay,
So this isn't Can I get a rose? Can I

(06:53):
get a bartini?

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Cold as ice? I want to be able to skate
on top of it. That's how we order or cold martini.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Did you know that?

Speaker 1 (07:01):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Is that right?

Speaker 1 (07:02):
I want to skate? I meaning it's so icy on
top I could fuck an ice skating.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
And the bartender's like, you got it and rolls their
eyes so hard they fall backwards behind the bar.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
I would never say that, by the way, I'll say
martini if it's warm, I won't send it back up right,
I just don't.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
I may could skate, but if you don't, I'll smile anyway,
because I don't actually know.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
How you so much. You don't even understand.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
As long as your mustache is curly, I'll do what
you say.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
I'll tip you so much.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Recently, you tip so much that the owners think that
the bartender's giving you free drinks.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
So if you're gonna.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Tip a lot, tip in cash, yes, because I'll fucking
blow out the tip. Sometimes if the person's like cool
and nice or it's like my neighborhood bar, right, and
Vince was like, that's that actually fucks them over because
the owner is like, why did they tip you this much?
You must be giving away alcohol, and then they get
in trouble.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
God, I've never thought of that hadn't either.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Well, but not at a.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
Like a busy place, not like at a major restaurants.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
Like at a bar.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
If they see a tab that was like a thirty
six dollars tab and you tip them fifty dollars on it,
they're going to be like, why did they tip you
fifty dollars on it?

Speaker 2 (08:07):
How many drinks did they actually get? Do you have it?

Speaker 3 (08:10):
That's pretty Forensica County when people are just drunk and
giving away money because they love the person that gave
them the drinks, right, is it.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
The drunk rich person or are you giving away drinks?

Speaker 3 (08:20):
It was just someone that's straight up bad at math.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
I just want us to get the fuck out of it.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
Do you know what I did the other night? I
thought I would be cute and try to make the
whole thing add up to an even number. Oh yeah,
and fuck the waiter over by about thirteen dollars.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Oh no, And I just kept thinking about it.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
I ended we went there second night, so it was
not a big deal, but I was just like thinking
about it, like.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Why was that the priority? Yeah, a round number for
who feels good kind of you and not for the waiter.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
Yeah, but still it doesn't feel good to me because
I know I didn't get there, so I'm always like,
I think I minused it by ten dollars.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
I still can't carry the one my grandma used.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
To carry this cart around that was like tipping and
the exact numbers for what you wanted to tip.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
So why don't we have those anymore?

Speaker 1 (09:05):
We're called calculators in your phone, but I can't figure that.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
Out right because you'd have to kind of know. I
want a little card that says if you want to
go eighteen twenty twenty two regular big.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, all right, we'll figure this out later someday, we
will figure this out. In the meantime, True crime. Let's
do a true crime podcast.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
We're going to Australia. This is an infamous Australian case
that has technically been solved in that the alleged killer
was sentenced, but to many Australians it remains a mystery,
both because they think the wrong man was sentenced and
also because the victim's body has never been found, and
some people even question if there is a body to

(09:43):
be found. There's a lot of debate over this. We're
going to figure it out today, great and solve this one.
Let's do an on air solve for once.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, to those who believe justice was served.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
It's also a survival story, which in which a young
woman escaped her captor and lived to testify against him.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
We love those stories.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Yeah, And to everyone who does, she's a liar who
fabricated the entire story and is responsible for her boyfriend's disappearance.
This is the story of the murder of Peter Falconio
and the survival story of Joanne Lee's.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
So you're about to tell the survival story, but we
don't know how to interpret it.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
We know, okay, she's telling the truth. We do know that.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
We do you and I and a lot of people.
But there's a lot of questions behind it. And that's
partly because of the way the investigation was done and
the way the trial and the evidence went that people
question a lot of things.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
And also she's a woman who.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Survived, and so people just immediately assume lots of stuff.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
So, okay, we'll get into it, and.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
We'll get lots of hate mail about it. The main
sources from the story are reporting from The Guardian and
the Sydney Morning Herald, and also there's a documentary called
Murder in the Outback which I watched. The rest of
the sources can be found in the show notes. The
documentary clearly thinks that the wrong person was put in prison,
so i'm you know, grain.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Results, there's a bias. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
So it's late two thousand. Peter Falconio and Joanne Lee's
they're twenty and twenty seven years old. They are a
couple from England. They've been together about five years. If
you want a picture who I'm talking about. She could
be played by Selma Blair and he could be played
by Sean Gunn, James Gunn's little brother from Guardians of
the Galaxy.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Here's a photo of actually the people. Oh okay, she's
really pretty.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
She's got like a Selma Blair meets Elizabeth Taylor but
British kind of a thing going yeah. And he's really
cute and has a very sweet face and smile.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
She looks like the sister from Peep Show, which is
a deep cut. Oh yeah, very similar to that actress.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
So they met at a nightclub. Peter was a student
at the University of Brighton and they moved in together
and now they are living their twenty something dream.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
They're taking a year.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Off to travel around the world, just kind of beat
like backpackers and explorers. They set out in November. They
start in Asia and they travel to Nepal, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Cambodia,
like something most of us would maybe do two of
those in our lifetime, right, you know. In January of
two thousand and one, they arrive in Australia and they
both get what's called a working holiday visa, meaning they're

(12:09):
allowed to get jobs to fund the rest of their
travels in Australia. So Peter and Joanne's parents are nervous
about the Australia leg of the trip because there's recently
been three highly publicized, highly violent incidents, two of which
targeted backpackers. Those are the backpacker murders, which happened in
the late eighties and early nineties, and you covered at

(12:31):
a live show in Australia. It's episode eighty eight, and
it's just a fucking incredible story that I had never
I've in malat right, I mean, the survivor Paula, Yeah, right.
And then there's also a horrible fire at a hostel
in June of two thousand, which had been started on
purpose and killed fifteen people. So understandably, you know, these
twenty somethings are in Australia. Their parents are worried, but

(12:54):
for many months of the Australia leg, everything goes well.
They stay in Sydney, Joane gets a job in a
bookstore and Peter works for a company that installs furniture
and offices. They're just kind of like saving up to
go on their next leg of their beautiful trip.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
I would love to get a job in Sydney and.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
Just live there for a little while at a bookstore
and just like kind of walk down by the harbor
when you're done. Also, I wonder there's something about knowing
your job isn't permanent, Like this is not the rest
of your fucking life. This is like a stop in
between adventures.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yes it's the.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Twenties, man, you gotta do it right. This is your
sign right now, everyone listening.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Just try stuff.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
We're the people that are like, don't leave the house
self indoors and they were like, but you know what,
also go to Australia.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
So they are saving money for their next leg of
the trip, which is going to be a huge road
trip across Australia, and as we know from our tour there,
there's like the big cities Sydney and Melbourne and Brisbane,
and then there's nothing flyover like bush land and small
towns and then Perth and so there's a lot in

(13:58):
between there that's just kind of long, quiet roads.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, the outback. They call it the.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Jesus thank you for doing my research for me. So
they set off for that trip on June twenty fifth,
two thousand and one, in an orange camper van.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
It's like a VW and.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
They plan to sleep in the van in the back
or like go camping or sleep by the side of
the road.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
I was like, you either look thrilled or like miserable.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
I mean, I've done it, and I've done it in
a VW van.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Oh yeah, that was my old life Georgia. That was
before I knew you.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
It is the kind of thing where you get to
see amazing stuff up close, you get to camp in nature,
which was like, you know, doing it like say in
the California Redwoods. Yeah, can't recommend it enough. We were
just surrounded. But for somebody like me who's a real
lover of nice hotels.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, go to hell. Amenities got to have them.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
You live service totally just eating indoor shower, hot hot shower,
you can just stand around in. So first they go southwest,
they stop in Canberra and in Melbourne, and then they
start their trip by heading north. By July eleventh, they
arrive in a place called Alice Springs, which is a
small city in Northern Territory. So there's all the different territories.

(15:13):
This is Northern Territory. It's kind of basically in the
center of Australia and Alice Springs is the biggest outpost
for many many miles of barren outback.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
There's the word outback.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, I looked it up and I saw it describe
many different ways online, this Northern Territory and this long
stretch of the outback, and it seems like it's a
town that's struggling to be touristy while dealing with lots
of crime. And there's a lot of lingering racism against
the Aboriginal population. I got this quote on Reddit. The

(15:44):
population is a real mixed bag from lefty arts degree
kind of people working in government agencies to classic redneck
outback bogan. And I don't know what bogan means, and
then someone else wrote it's a place criminals go to hide.
So they stay in Alice Springs for a few days,
and it's kind of like the last stop between civilizations.
And there's like little towns along the way, but not

(16:06):
much else. So on the evening of July fourteenth, Peter
and Joanne leave Alice Springs, heading north towards the outback.
It's also called the Red Center picture Las Vegas, that
long stretch from La to Las Vegas of nothing but desert.
But the desert is all red, like this dusty, rusty
looking red color.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
It's really beautiful.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
It's very barren kind of Vegas, Utah Joshua tree open
land with different kinds.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Of bush, the bush, it's bush country. It's bush country.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
So at around six point thirty that evening, they stop
at a rest stop where they share what the papers
will later refer to as a joint of cannabis, and
the press will make a big deal about this later,
and then they continue on their way, with Peter driving.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
We he just goes slightly off the road and comes
back right. It ever so slightly off the road right.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
So it's about seven thirty now, it's pitch black. There's
no moon.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
I cannot even stress how dark it is out in
the bush.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
Can I just say this real quick? And it just
came to me. Don't get high before you go drive
through tens of or hundreds of miles of darkened.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
That's you're unfamiliar with completely. Let's remember they're from England.
Small town in England. Like one of the people that
they met in Alice Springs was like, don't go at night.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
There's nothing. They don't have reason to do it.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, right, it's like not safe and it's scary. So
they're in a remote area. They're on their way to
a settlement called Barrow Creek. Peter and Joanne notice a
pickup truck with a canopy pulling beside the van and
keeping pace with them. It's one of those something's wrong
with your car pullover situations that we know all too well,
and they had been having issues with the car, so

(17:44):
they assume that's what he's pointing to, and she's like,
don't pull over.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
I don't trust this guy.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
There's not traffic on this road at all, there's nobody around,
but he pulls over anyways. So at this point Joan
hasn't really gotten a great look at the guy, but
she sees that he's wearing a baseball.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Cap, has a like a big mustache.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
And Peter walks around to the back of the car
to talk with this guy and they talk about sparks
coming out of the exhaust pipe.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Baby Peter comes.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Back around and tells Joanne to sit in the driver's
seat and rev the engine so they can see what's
wrong with the car. She does that, she hears a
loud bang, which at first she believes is the car backfiring,
but then the man who had stopped them comes to
the driver's side door where she is and points a
silver handgun at Joanne and tells her to get out
of the car. So she immediately realizes that the shot

(18:31):
she heard was probably Peter getting shot. The man ties
her wrists together with this like weird contraption and gets
her into the passenger seat of his truck. And it's
a green Toyota little truck with a canopy over the bed.
And it's so specific. I'm gonna show you a photo.
It's normal to Australia, but like it almost looks like
a little army van.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, you know, with like a canvas top on the back.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
Yep, and the wheels are lifted a little bit so you.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Can go over rocks. Yeah, you know what I mean.
It's made for the out back. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
So this all comes from her after the fact, one
of the most terrifying traumatic moments of her life, that
she explains what happened, and she's not totally clear, she
doesn't remember a lot of it, but basically, she says
she notices a stocky dog writing with him, and then
the man draws are down tries to tie her ankles
as well. She fights back and then he forces her

(19:20):
into the bed of that track, but then he.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Leaves she's tied up.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
He leaves to do something, presumably hide Peter's body, because
if someone had been driving by, they would have seen that.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
And at that moment she just has this.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
She says, quote a strange calmness came over me, almost
like an acceptance, like this is it. I'm going to die.
But then out of sheer terror, I realized that I
wasn't just going to die. He was going to rape me.
And I believe that was the turning point and that's
what saved me, because I just all of a sudden
from somewhere found some strength end quote. She pops up

(19:55):
and she's able to get her ankles free, and she
runs into the book like runs into the outback and
it's pitch black out there. She hides in a bush.
The attacker comes after her, scans the area with a flashlight.
It's completely black, and somehow the flashlight never quite lands
on her. She's laying flat.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
There's nowhere to hide. I know.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
Some were like, I mean, like just the things I'm
picturing of the TV shows I've seen that take place,
places like that where just like what do you get
down by a plant on the ground, And.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Oh, that's exactly so stressful. I know.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
He eventually gives up and goes back to the road.
We're assuming that he wanted to get rid of Peter's
body in case someone drove by.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
And he leaves and.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Joanne hides in that bush for five hours until one am,
when she feels safe enough to get out. She returns
to the road and flags down a passing truck like
a semi.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
Thank god something was passing, Yeah, I mean, and also
how scary that would be to be standing there, like, well,
let's hope this person ripes.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Me let's hope it's not the same person.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
So scary the truck drivers, there's two of them, and
they are shocked to find her there. They say, the
fear in her face, they have never seen it.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Before in their lives. It's this is a terrified woman.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
They use the wirecutters to get the wrist stuff off.
There's tape around her neck, they get that off. She's
got cuts and scrapes everywhere. She was laying in the
bush and they drive her to the closest service station
where they call the police, who arrive finally when the
sun rises on June fifteenth, and launch into one of
the largest man hunts in Australian history. At the scene

(21:25):
of the attack, they find a stain on the ground
that's later determined to be Peter's blood. So there is
a small pool of blood, but they always say that
it doesn't seem like there's enough blood, and there's no
like brain matter. If he really got shot in the head.
There's inconsistencies there, but who knows. They also find the
orange van that they were driving, about eighty meters off

(21:46):
the road, hidden in the brush. However, roadblocks don't get
set up until around eight hours after the initial attack.
So the search area is vast, it's about two times
the state of.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Texas the search area.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
Thank god, helicopter skin the area, but they don't find anything.
Joanne obviously has just survived a terrifying ordeal, and so
you would expect that she'd be treated with empathy and respect. However,
it's the early two thousands, and she's a woman not
to mention young and pretty, and so you would be wrong.

(22:18):
A huge deal is made over the fact that she
just straight up refuses to talk to the press, and there,
you know, it's the thing that happens all the time,
which is she didn't act the way a victim is
supposed to act, which we now know is bullshit.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
She's kind of.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Almost like hostily ignoring.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
The press, the postle ignoring. That's what I do. That's
the play right out.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Of my playbook. I mean.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
Also, the first thing I thought of when you said
that was the dingoes ate my baby.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
That's what everyone talks about.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
Okay, yes, everyone talks about the Chamberlain case when this
gets brought up.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Because she was treated the same way.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
And found out to be totally innocent, She's taken the
very next day to do a play by play reenactment
of exactly what happened in the car.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
She walks everyone through it. She doesn't remember a lot
of it.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
But she's very like composed, which of course, it's like,
do you think maybe they gave her a valume? Do
you think maybe she wanted to help the police. She's
not going to break down crying in that moment.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
She's just like, it's just the judge, you ever compartmentalized,
right exactly? You have to hire people that have alcoholic
parents so that people understand all the tricks.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
Of the trade, I mean dissociation.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
And she's there, Yeah, chef's kiss to the association. But
she's standing there like, yes, the trauma of her closest
loved one murdered in front of her, and then I
have to take these steps to get that murder, Saul, right, Like,
it's no time to be falling apart.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
No, one of the things I tell you right now
that I know and that you don't know, like could
help find my boyfriend if he's still alive, and yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
That's supposed to be the agreement anyway, it is.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
The British and Australian press immediately pounce on her like
if they are hungry for this, like wolves for the story.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
They suggest that her.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Story might not be true, or that she's hiding parts
of it. Joanne gives a press conference eleven days after
the attack, and at the time it's treated as her
like finally deigning to speak to the press, and they
immediately pick apart what she's wearing. She has like a
tank top on that says cheeky monkey. I mean there's
no pr training back then.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
No.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, she doesn't play the victim the way they want
her to. She doesn't play it smoothly.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
Also, that's the kind of thing where it's like you're
trying to get an outfit together for a press conference,
a thing you've never dressed for before. You don't have
anybody on your side, and probably if she's in grief
or whatever it is, it's like you're just wearing a shirt.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yeah you picked up and she's on a trip in
a foreign country. She picks something out of her luggage
and puts it on. Oh, I forgot about that part
about it. It's only what she has. But during the
press conference she acts dismissive. She doesn't cry, which is
a force reported on. But it's literally been less than
two weeks since she was kidnapped that this happens. So

(25:06):
even more articles come out. I mean, it's a huge
cover story, doubting Joanne, saying her tone and behavior don't
seem appropriate.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Blah blah blah. We all know that.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
And it seems like she's pretty pissed off at the
press as well as the police, who at this part
start reinterviewing her, and this time with the tone that
she's a suspect, not the victim, and there's video of
this in the documentary. They start questioning her story. They
say that they gave her statement to some like analysts

(25:36):
who said they were twelve apparent inconsistencies lies in her
version of events, meaning like shit didn't add up. And
it's like, oh, you mean the story that she told
you when she's fucking traumatized, maybe high she was also high?

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Oh right, right at cannabis joint. Yeah, I forgot about
that part. So they're saying it's inconsistent with the truth.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
Someone comes up and shoots your loved one in the
head and then you have to tell the story correctly or.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Like day right, right, So she does get angry at them,
you know, and then After three weeks of this, DNA
testing on the shirt she had been wearing at the
time of the attack comes back and there is a
small speck of blood on it that has nail DNA.
It's not Peter's DNA. It doesn't belong to anyone in
their database of criminals either. Police also turn up CCTV

(26:24):
footage from a Shell gas station back in Alice Springs
from just after midnight on the evening of the attack.
The footage shows a Toyota truck with a canopy matching
Joanne's description. You can't see the plate though, and it
shows a man going into the station. He's wearing a
baseball cap. He has a mustache, just like Joanne said.
We don't know if it's the person that she said

(26:44):
it was. It's just someone happens to drive in who
matches the description at that time.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
Multiple descriptions right, car and face right.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Despite all this evidence, there are many stories picking apart
minor inconsistencies. For example, there's conflicting details, composite sketch. We
don't even know if the guy in the Shell station
is him, so if it's not consistent with him, it's
maybe because it isn't him, right, we don't know. So
two years go by with occasional articles that's still cast
doubt on Joanne's story. Peter's body is never recovered and

(27:16):
there's no meaningful leads. And then in two thousand and two,
a forty two year old drug runner named Bradley John Murdoch.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
What it's just, it's late in life to be a
drug runner. I think he's just like be a drug
dealer at this point, right.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
So he's a bad dude, So people don't think he's guilty.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
People do either way.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
He's a criminal. He was in a motorcycle gang. He's
been a drug runner for a long time, and there
are some violent acts on his.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Record as well. He's a racist, he has racist tattoos.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
He's pulled a gun at a sucker game on an
Aboriginal crowd.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Like he's not a good dude, Okay.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
So he's arrested in connection with a different case in
which a twelve year old girl and her mother are
both abducted from their home and they're bound and gagged,
sexually assaulted and kidnapped for twenty hours, driven away. And
this isn't mistaken identity, Like they picked the wrong guy.
In a lineup like they knew him. He lived in
their back house.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
They and they identified him.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yes, this is Bradley John Murdoch, the drug runner. And
he's like six seven six'. Eight he's a huge. Man
and when he's, arrested police noticed a few. Things he
had tie cables in his, truck consistent with what the
mother and daughter said they were tied, with and also
consistent with What joanne had been tied. With the truck
seems to Match joanne's. Description it's the same one as

(28:38):
we looked. At in, Fact murdoch had been tracked down
and interviewed in two thousand and one because his truck
matched the model in.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Those gas STATION cctv.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
FOOTAGE i think they just questioned a lot of people
with records who had that, truck but police had not
gotten A dna sample from. Him then they get. One
now it's tested and it's found to be a match
for the blood that had been On joanne's.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
Shirt. WOW.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Ok and then he's acquitted of the. Case with the
mother and, daughter it's a hung. Jury it just seems
christ it seems like what's the.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Word it's so fucked.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Up, yeah it's almost like they just put enough reasonable
doubt into the jury's head that they didn't convict.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Him but, right it's clear to most of us that he.
Did gotta have that.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Evidence, Yes and then immediately as he's walking out of the,
courtroom he's tackled by.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Police he's arrested For peter's. Murder oh, shit. Yeah they
were like ready to. Commuts oh, yeah in.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Credible they're, like if he gets off on, this we're
immediately bringing them.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
In that had to feel good to like that prosecutor
out every. Word it's, like go ahead and enjoy that
two minutes you got. Acquitted.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Right the case attracts so much attention the trial's delayed
for a, while and so it eventually starts In october
of two thousand and. Five In, Darwin murdo's lawyers use
the angle of Discrediting joanne's testimony because she's ready to
testify aainst. Him this includes suggesting that she was having
an affair while she was living In, sydney which in,

(30:05):
fact she hadn't been cheating On. Peter she had an
affair with a, man so they use that as part
of the.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Headlines, sorry how old is? She twenty? SEVEN i Mean,
yeah isn't that what everyone? Does, yeah and she admitted.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
It it wasn't like a revelation at. Trials she admitted
to a.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
Delice. Yeah she said that they had had an, affair
they liked each.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Other she was going to go on this trip With
peter and then they were going to see where they.
Landed and she got put into police custody and emailed
him this guy while she was in police, custody like
weeks After peter's death or this, incident and, said when
this is, over meet me In. Berlin it just didn't
look good for. Her, oh and that's why police were

(30:48):
kind of going after her.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
MORE i, mean even if it's purely like escapist AND
i just don't want to be in a time where
this is.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Over.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
Sorry that's first of, all everyone just stopped putting things
in fucking. WRITING i, mean, seriously she's not a perfect
victim at, all which is upsetting to, people but doesn't
mean she's not a. Victim this is worst case scenario
for IF i was that defense, LAWYER i would just be,
like are you fucking kidding? Me, yeah because this is

(31:17):
motive now.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Right well that's the other thing, Too it's so fucking.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
Annoying is they're like when people who say That murdoch
didn't do, it they, say there's no.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Motive there's no.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Motive because she fucking took. Off the motive was to,
murder it to. Rape it's actually assault and rape this.
Woman come, on like that's the motive. Period, no you're completely.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
RIGHT i, mean like the idea of a motive for
a serial rapist is the. Act so that doesn't make
sense at, all like saying they didn't have money on
them or something like what the FUCK.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
I don't, know, yeah or like trying to steal the. Cars,
no he killed the boyfriend and tied up and kept
alive the.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Girlfriend MAY i introduced you a bunch of other serial
killers over history that we have talked, about serious.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
One do you want to? Hear this is why we
talk about.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
It So joanne testifies Against, murdoch who she has already
identified in a photo, lineup which also has some issues.
Behind if you watch the, documentary you'll see she might
have seen this guy getting arrested.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
In the news and then did the photo line up
and picked.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
Him the evidence against him and this whole trial isn't
Great and that's a lot of what people argue is
based on the. Evidence it doesn't show that he's, guilty
even though he could, be, Right so that's difficult for,
people AND i understand, that, yeah that. Is and So
murdoch is found guilty both of the murder and of Assaulting.
Joanne he appeals his sentences multiple, times. Unsuccessfully laws are

(32:41):
passed In australia that prevent any convicted murderer of being
granted parole who has withheld the location of a body
that has not been. Found they keep, saying take us
to the. Body if he didn't do, it then he
can't do that, though right. Right in twenty, Nineteen murdoch
is diagnosed with throat, cancer and he died just about
a year ago In july of twenty twenty, five without

(33:03):
ever revealing the location Of Peter falconio's. Body in the
statement the family says About, murdoch, quote we are only
forced to think about him now that he's. Died we
don't want to let him ruin our lives more than
he already. Has the awful thing is our family's future
With peter was cruelly taken. Away today we instead focus
on the three children we have left and our. Grandchildren

(33:24):
we didn't have much, faith but we were Hoping Bradley
John murdoch would reveal Where peter was before he. Died
but even now we still hold out hope that his
remains will be found end. Quote and The Northern Territory
police are offering a reward of up to five hundred
thousand dollars for information leading to the recovery Of peter's.
Remains he would be fifty three years old right now

(33:46):
if he were still. Alive and that is the story
of the attack On Peter falconio And Joanne.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
Lee's, Wow, now what would you do knowing this story
AND i only know you just told. Me, Yeah but
knowing the, story if you found out THE dna evidence
that actually it was all her, plan would that shock
you to your? Bone so is that something you're, like
it's absolutely not possible.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Based on the, evidence it's not. Possible but based on
the evidence against, him and there's OTHER dna evidence that
doesn't check, out it's just a little like it's hard
to believe his story Against. MURDOCH i don't. KNOW i
don't know how to.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
SAY i would be, very very shocked if she had
something to do with. It, okay what about?

Speaker 2 (34:33):
You you don't? Know, well just based on what you told.
Me it's like that.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
Idea it's like believe women, always and yet we have
told many stories about women who never stopped, lying, right
you know WHAT i, mean had very evil intent from early,
days so it's not. IMPOSSIBLE i just think it's fascinating
when cheaters cheat as if it's no big deal in
the grand scheme of, things where it's like you just

(34:59):
put a little time bomb in your.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Future.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
Yeah that then tells the person that you care about
the most they cannot trust anything you say or.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Do, Right but what's her motive? Though to be with this?
Guy then just break, up break out your.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Boyfriend they're not, married they have no financial, ties and
That there's just so many weird. Inconsistencies AND i think
that the police, investigation because of the way it was
done first and, foremost made it so that it'd be
really hard to convict someone for this and have everyone
believe they got the right. Guy, yes so anything about
her being guilty based on that evidence also can't be, trusted,

(35:35):
Right SO i just don't think there's more evidence that
this Guy murdock is guilty than she, is and even
that is kind of, loose.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
Right although just the affair really, yeah screws, it it's not.

Speaker 5 (35:48):
Good but then wise of, Motive, yeah the other people
talk about is like why would how she'd never been
to this, place this remote place in the middle of,
Nowhere how are you going to plan this perfect crime
and get away with?

Speaker 1 (36:01):
It, yeah those are other but there are little weird
things like the dog that was with him she identified
as the wrong kind of, dog which just shows that
maybe it's Not.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Murdoch but also she told him she got in the.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Truck he forced in the truck this way and there's
actually no way to get into the truck that. Way
but it's like she was traumatized and she was going through.
It she'd remembered it, INCORRECTLY.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
I mean something like, That And i'm just guessing, obviously
but it sounds like the kind of thing where cops
went and re enacted. Something later, On it's, like, well
she's saying she did, this and then you want to,
go how big was the cop that was playing?

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Her, right she went did the.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Reenactment she is six foot eight, Also and the other thing, is,
oh she went and said she's so she's standing there,
going this is HOW i did.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
It, Yeah like you couldn't have.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Step by step, Yeah and they're, like that doesn't make.
Sense this doesn't make. Sense there's also the theory that
people believe That Peter falconio is still alive and had
just faked his own death and, disappeared and maybe she
helped him with, it and that's why she's. Flying people
say that they've seen.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Him.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
Oh some people say she's in on. It some people
say she's.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
Not, yeah but that he's still alive and he like
just escaped his life.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
And she's basically this is her cover, story, yeah or
or she Her.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
Yeah those two, guys it's Like i'm kidnapping your, boyfriend.
RIGHT i think that's the most male ideal. Version we're just, like,
no these are two guys having a. Prank it's not
a man killing the man so he can rape the.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Woman and then there's no. Motive, again like he didn't
have his crazy. Debt he had a lovely, family and he's.
Young he was a very sweet. Guy everyone loved. Him,
hmmm Y, well BUT i think all of it just
as it's just all smoke and mirrors to point away
from the person who most likely murdered him in the
exact way that she said it.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
Happened it's interesting BECAUSE i feel like THOSE i saw
them after the, fact eyewitness things so not.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Helpful it just feels like they're always.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
Wrong, yeah BUT i, mean, man please come back to
me about this within three, months BECAUSE i.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Don't this is.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
FRUSTRATING i. WILL i know you hate. It and it's
not a cold. CASE i didn't give you a cold.
Case right's, solved it's still. Frustrated considered, Solved, yeah that's.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Tough.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Well, also the police wanted to solve it as soon
as possible, too for tourism's, sake you, know and show
that they had got the right. Guy you think that
she would have said that he was six foot eight
or whatever when describing her.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Attacker she doesn't seem like she got a great look at.
Him but she's in the passenger.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
Side he pulls up behind them and, says pull, over something's.
Wrong she's sitting in the passenger, seat she's talking to.
Him if she did turn, around it would be headlights
in her.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Eyes. Yeah all of the inconsistencies on her that they
placed on her can be.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Explained, yeah by.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
Logic yeah, yeah, Wow, okay well great job killing and
interesting and. Important, yeah uh, GOD i HOPE i, know
it would just be.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Nice i'll let you. Know, okay thank.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
You we're going to take a left turn today in
honor of The World. Cup oh that's happening here in
The United states Of. America did you hear about any of?

Speaker 2 (39:15):
This, yes it's bringing worlds. Together.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Amazing people are having a this is the dawning of
The age Of aquarius. Moment boston And, GLASGOW i, believe
are now deeply in love and getting. Married you're watching
a lot of people from THE uk come over and
like eat real southern food In georgia and lose their fucking.

Speaker 4 (39:34):
Mind.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
AMAZING i heard something about ranch stressing being probably.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
People are sending it back to. Themselves people are getting
caught with it in their carry, ons AND i think
for a lot of people, here it's like people here
are being reminded of why this is a great. Country
somebody ran stressing it's ran stressing and southern, food and someone,
said it's, like, Uh i've heard this twice. Now it's

(39:57):
like we're all cousins and our parents don't get, along
so we don't like each, other thank. God and we
finally got dropped off when we get to have a. Sleepover,
yeah and now everyone's having a great time and going
fuck our.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Parents they realize are lied to this whole time by your,
parents and these kids are.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Awesome love that countries are not the governments that make
terrible decisions for, them thank.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
You it's the. People they force us to pay taxes
that go to do terrible. Things but we don't want.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
That we don't want, it and we love our fellow.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Man we.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
Do it's all very. Beautiful TikTok dot com if you
want to get if you want to jump in on,
it it's pretty. Lovely so kind of in celebration of
that and the fact THAT i Think i've told you the.
Story But Robin collising AND i my sister's, Friend adrian's,
husband if we, can we will Watch World cup games
If i'm like home for the summer or. Around and
the fun thing about, it we started doing it when
we were on Vacation hawaii is getting up.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
And watching them at like three thirty in the.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
Morning, yeah and so be like someone would get donuts
the night before and we would do this whole thing
and then we would be the weirdos in the front.
Room and of COURSE i don't care about soccer one
or the, other but it WAS i love being up
in the middle of the night for every for like
a weird. Reason and we're going to do it again
WHEN i go home for fourth Of. JULY i, Know
i'm very. Excited by the time this episode, airs which

(41:08):
will be On, Thursday july, ninth it'll be the semi finals.
Starting and just for your own, interest we have more
than twenty seven thousand listeners In chile really a ninety
thousand In.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Brazil.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
Wow so for the listeners that are in those, Countries,
hi we can't believe you listen to this.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Podcast thank. You we're so.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
Excited, yeah, welcome absolutely. Welcome Maybe benitos google how to
say it, correctly don't USE. Ai so we're just very
excited that you're. Here so this story Begins september, third
nineteen eighty, nine just before five O'CLOCK. Pm it's The
South american qualifiers for the nineteen Ninety World cup at

(41:52):
The Maricana stadium In rio de Jan. Ero the matches
Between brazil And. Chile i'm pronouncing It chile because that's
how you're supposed to pronounce, it but it makes it
sound LIKE i know What i'm, doing AND i absolutely do,
not BUT i feel self conscious about, it But i'll
still say. It we appreciate, that kind of like an
art teacher in high.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
School it's, like have you ever been To chile Or?

Speaker 3 (42:13):
Brasil so in this match That i'm telling you about
it's about to take, Place brazil has the. Advantage they
have the home field. Advantage but Also brazil in the
soccer world, football as the rest of the entire globe calls.
It in, Football brazil is a. Powerhouse the kids play
with a, smaller heavier ball as they grow, up so

(42:35):
by the time they get to the bigs or even the,
mids they are faster and sharper and. BETTER i saw,
that and It's brazil is Where pele is. From who's
the greatest many believe the greatest of all. Time, Basically
chile is going into this the, underdog just Because brazil
is like The yankees of, football do not write in

(42:59):
no one.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
CARES i don't know how right or WRONG i, am
or you don't, care thank.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
You it's just slightly defensive about how MUCH i don't
know about What i'm talking. About, Okay, So brazil has
won The World cup five, times more than any other,
country but The chilean fans still have faith their team
could beat the, odds thanks in no small part to
their thirty two year old captain and the, Goalkeeper Roberto,
Rojas robert The. Red he is ready to do whatever

(43:27):
it takes to get his team to The World, cup
and that ambition will lead to one of the most
notorious incidents In South american sports. History this is the
story of the nineteen eighty Nine brazil Versus Chile World cup.
Qualifiers is this the wrong goal? Story there's a lot
of elements to this. Story can you see?

Speaker 4 (43:48):
It?

Speaker 2 (43:48):
What?

Speaker 3 (43:49):
Do there are other waves? Coming i'm having the hugest
offlash right.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Now oh you were, like he's so. Angry can you
see how MUCH i love? Football?

Speaker 4 (43:57):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (43:57):
No.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
Okay so the main sources used for today's glory are
an episode of ESPN's thirty four thirty, podcasts not thirty
by thirty the measurements THAT i once said that show
was Entitled i'm also a twenty twenty five episode of
BBC's Sporting witness, podcast and an article by a writer
Named Daniel edwards at a little website called goal dot,

(44:20):
com and the rest of those sources are in our show.
Notes so there's already been drama Between brazil And chile
before the playoff match That i'm talking. About two years
before nineteen eighty, seven they went up against each other
in an early round of a tournament called The Copa,
america which is between all The Southern american men's national football.

(44:42):
Teams brazil is the favorite to win once, again but
when they go head to head With, Chile chile ends
up beating them in a stunning four zero. Upset so
the goalie Of chile's, Team Roberto, rojas plays a flawless.
Game he does not let a single goal get by,
him which is no small. Feat as Journalist DANIEL. A

(45:05):
larcone puts it quote quite, frankly goalkeepers are. INSANE a
good goalkeeper has a certain amount of disregard for his
or her own.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
Safety they live on the. Edge, yeah, terrifying so.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
Scary so over his decade long, Career rojas has done just,
that earning respect with his, passion fearlessness and athleticism that
he plays. With let's take a picture. There he is
superstar Of chile. Football he's been caught up in a
couple noteworthy, scandals though from earlier in his. Career one
involved him lying about his age so he could participate

(45:38):
in youth tournaments it's, odd and another involving doping produce
standard scandals for football, players but he, is despite.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
That a national.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
Hero the fans call Him El condor because condors are
the national symbol Of. Chile we're going to learn a lot, today,
Okay and they kind of think he looks like a
condor's but it's all a form of. Respect so, basically
When chile goes and Whips brazil's ass at The Copa

(46:10):
america nineteen eighty, seven his national icon status is truly,
cemented and Ultimately chile places second in that. Tournament they
as a country have appeared at The World cup several.
Times their best run was in nineteen sixty. Two this
Is chile when they came in third. Place but now
This World cup tournament in nineteen ninety that's going to

(46:31):
be In. Italy this feels like it's their big. Chance
it's the final days of the brutal military dictatorship Of.
Pinochet it's a time of major political and social upheaval
in the. Country soccer matches have become places where Impassion
chileans can express their national pride on a global, stage

(46:52):
so there's a lot.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
In it for.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
Them the nineteen eighty Nine World cup qualifiers Have chile
And brazil face off. Again they played two games in this.
Qualifier the first one takes place In santiago On august
thirteenth at the city's national. Stadium it's Called National. Stadium
it's nearly at. Capacity the crowd is riled. Up look
how big this stadium. Is just to give you this

(47:15):
sense of it's Super bowl size and. LEVEL i, mean
obviously we know, this but the rest of the world's
football is our football wow with different shaped, Balls so
all those people going. Crazy, normally both football teams playing
that day come out of that tunnel and onto the field,
together mostly so that riled up fans don't throw shit

(47:38):
at the opposing, team, Right so if they're both, there
nobody throws. Anything and so that is just basically standard
play for these. Qualifiers but on this, day Before brazil
is ready to, go team Captain Roberto rojas just has
his team go out. First he leads them out onto
the field Without, brazil Forcing brazil to walk into this

(48:00):
pack stadium. Alone it's an explicit break from. Protocol it's
meant to Rattle brazil in a crucial pregame, moment but
it's also part of a larger mentality That chilean Journalist
Danilo diaz shorthands as quote mass bundidos klos, bandidos which
means more bandits than the, bandits which is, basically they're

(48:21):
going to fuck with, you so fuck with them, first.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Right that's kind of the motto in.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
Podcasting not all teams of this era are of This
macavelian mindset where the end justifies the, means but some,
do and in ESPN's thirty for thirty, podcast they cite
a few stories about Various Latin american clubs accused of
allegedly doing these these. Moves some have been accused of

(48:48):
allegedly drugging their opponents Before matt SHIT.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
I or that to?

Speaker 2 (48:53):
You yeah right for your podcast does it go hi.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
Question they've also been accused of covertly photographing these players
and compromising situations with sex, workers then blowing those pictures
up and hanging them around the arena before The.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
King that is, vicious it's fucking.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
Insane some club managers have been accused of releasing a
small dog onto the pitch when the team is ahead
to basically run down The clock's the that's the third
in that, list the least. Bad, yeah but it's all dirty,
play and the list goes on and. On So roberto's
move of walking out without The brazilian, team you, know

(49:36):
is kind of that muscling that they, do and it
definitely sets a palpable feeling of hostility in the. Stadium
that of, course it's even before. Gameplay once the game,
starts that tone increases. Dramatically so now we're just a
minute and a half into the. Game when A chilean
midfielder aggressively tackles A brazilian player and injures him, somehow

(49:58):
That chilean player only gets a yellow, card which is
the official warning. Card but then as the Injured brazilian
player is being taken off the, field a fight breaks
out between other players and someone else is, injured and
this time A brazilian player is given a red, card
which means he is now kicked out of the. Game,

(50:19):
afterward That brazilian player will tell reporters, QUOTE i didn't
hit him that, hard so it just started with a
bit of. Violence around minute, fourteen The chilean player who
got the yellow card tries to trip A brazilian midfielder
and when he realizes he is going to get carded,
again which probably means he's going to get red, carded

(50:39):
he tries to intimidate the, ref so then A brazilian
player steps in to defend the ref while Several chilean
players grab their teammate try to get him to calm
down and come over to the bench, basically and they
are all worried he's becoming a. Liability so it's a
pretty even match between the two teams and the, Goalie
Roberto rojas is playing a near perfect. Game he defends

(51:03):
shot after shot made By. Brazil by, halftime the score
is zero to, zero which is a very big deal
when teams are playing Against. Brazil just to keep them
from scoring is, yeah because you can end in a
tie and you can and just keep them from scoring
and get one more than, them and that's all you
need to.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
DO i just explained it all.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
Sports but eleven minutes into the matches second, half things
take a turn when A chilean defender near the. Goal so,
Basically Roberto, rojas the goalie is back here by the
goal box and nearby one of Another chilean player needs
to basically kick the ball down there so they can
go start playing on the other end of the.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Field but like.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
You, anticipated, yep, sorry, yeah when he goes to do, this,
no because it's, famous he goes to do it and
instead of sending, it he hits the back of his
own players and it bounces off that guy's leg and
goes in to the fucking.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Net so he. Scores he's on his own team For.
BRAZIL i only know about this because of events explaining
it to, me and it's just it's a. Nightmare.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
Yeah and of course now there's already hostility and bad
vibes in the.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Stadium people go.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Nuts so he does that on his own home team
field with an audience.

Speaker 3 (52:19):
Full of nightmare like hardcore. Fans tensions are. High now
this gigantic mistake from the. Underdogs now THAT i know
you're doing the, STORY i can't believe.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
It this is so fucked. Up, yeah that's, GREAT i love.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
It, Yeah, okay it's an accidental assistant goal For. Brazil
AS i, said the bad vibes go from bad to.
Rotten the score is now one to Zero.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Brazil but who is it the fault of the guy
who kicked it or the guy who ricocheted off of the?

Speaker 2 (52:45):
Kicker but he, okay he kicked it to his to his.
GUY i, mean, like who. Knows it's nobody's.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
FAULT i literally watched four soccer games and without a,
Pause i'm, like it's the fault of the man with the.
Leg HOW i KNOW i played. SOCCER i love orange.
SLICES i think it's LIKE i would, say primary, kicker
because he was supposed to kick it up in afar
and then he just kicked it straight over to that.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Guy.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
Nightmare so now there's just seven minutes left in the,
game and another bizarre thing. Happens after A brazilian, Foul
chile is given a free. Kick, right the underdogs have a.
Chance can fucking even it?

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Up as long as you don't lose with that, point,
yes everyone would be, fine.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Just clear clear.

Speaker 3 (53:28):
It but when The brazilian players hear That chile's being
given a free, kick all The brazilian players on the,
field including their, goalie get. Furious and they start arguing
and confronting the refs and going crazy that this is not.
Fair and as they're doing, that A chilean player that's

(53:48):
near the ball realizes they never called time, out and
he very subtly passes the ball to a teammate who
then just kicks it straight into the.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Goal it is.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
Legal play and they make that. Point holy, Shit, yes.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
So chile gets a, goal so we're one to. One
we're one to. One everything's gonna be. Fine so isn't that?

Speaker 3 (54:10):
Insane that is so? Banana they actually review it and it's.
Decided it's it's declaredly like tie them out or. WHATEVER i,
mean they must have. Right so the game ends in a,
tie one to. One. Whew well the crowd they were
growing pissed off, before but now the game's.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Over no one.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Satisfied it's like both teams lost to them. Essentially so
as the teams walk off the, field that fans just start.
Throwing they throw, batteries they throw, rocks they throw anything
they can.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Is a battery and rock.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Night it was a soccer b yob or are just
hand them out when you walk?

Speaker 2 (54:45):
In who's got? Those? Night At dodger.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
Stadium they, said, well it was, like you, know it
was nineteen ninety so there's people with.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Radios but still it's just a little. Bit but they're,
Like i'm not throwing my, Radio i'm.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
Battery that's, right, honey give me your. Purse later on
in the locker, room a reporter Calls roberto out for
fanning the flames of the fan hostilities by Leaving brazil
in the tunnel when they were walking, out And roberto
responds by, saying, quote, man we have to use everything
we can to. Win so there's another game left between

(55:19):
these two, teams so they have a final kind of
chance to reverse. This both teams. Do according to the
way the points system works in The World cup, Qualifiers
chile has to win by at least one goal to
stay in the running to play in The World.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Cup, okay they just need to get a.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
Point they need to get more point than they want more,
points which is how you win.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
Everything now we're back where we. Started It's september, third
nineteen eighty. Nine we're In rio De, janeiro where at
The Maracana stadium the energy could not be more different
than it was In.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Santiago the vibes are.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Great it's described later as a one hundred and fifty
thousand person party with a Mostly brazilian. Crowd they're all
wearing the country's. Colors they have, tambourines they have little,
drums they're shooting off, flares they're shooting off fireworks in
the Stand jesus and they're all.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Hot so it's just a great. Time hot as in
like good. Looking, yeah we're In.

Speaker 3 (56:13):
Brazil so the match, begins and like probably every other
team On, Chile roberto the, goalie is playing like his
life depends on. It he blocks shot after shot from
The brazilian. Offenders the crowds keyed. Up they're cheering When
brazil launches balls Towards chile's goal because it's home, team
and When roberto blocks, it they jeer and they boo

(56:35):
and doesn't, matter doesn't shake. Him at, halftime the score
is still zero, zero which is huge For. Chile they
are Preventing brazil from.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
Scoring but if they, tie Then brazil, wins, right, yeah,
okay it's like a sudden death.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
Situation, Yeah, so less than five minutes into the second,
half a shot finally gets Past. Roberto brazil scores the
stadium rops in, cheers doesn't let. Up it's now one Zero,
brazil so everyone of course is locked on this. Gameplay
as The chileans now have the, ball they're driving it
down the.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Field some are looking.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
Toward their end Where Roberto rojas is standing in the
goal box when if flare suddenly comes down out of
the audience and falls onto the field like near. Him
it lands in a plume of smoke that just seems
to swallow him Whole dumbledore.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Is it job From Arrested.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Development after a, moment the smoke clears and the crowd
looks in horror as they Watch Roberto rojas writhing around
on the ground in, pain clutching his bloody.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
Face oh my, GOD i didn't know.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
This he's immediately carried off the field and into the locker.
ROOM i think we have a picture of the flare
falling onto the field during the. Game some drunk person
just holy. Shit, yeah it's like a.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
Firework.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
Yeah and then we have, photos of course of him
being carried, off, bloody being carried off the. Field that's
him down, there and you can see the blood from this.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
Side, god that's, violent it's.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
Crazy so they get him into the locker room and
they find a one and a quarter inch gash across his.
Forehead in protest of what seems like a blatant attack
on their captain by a crazed, fan the chile players
refuse to continue this. Game brazil, meanwhile is. Stunned they
have no idea what's. Happened they know it's, serious and
they also know that this happening could Hand chile the automatic.

(58:35):
Win so in the aftermath of the game's abrupt, ending
Many chileans are of course. Furious so it's another one
of these weird endings where it's all of a, sudden
we're just in this insane medical problem and no one
really knows what's going. On some of The chileans even
go protest outside of The brazilian embassy In.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Santiago when they go back.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Home, well aren't The brazilians pissed, too? Though because they
were going to?

Speaker 3 (59:00):
Win you, Know, well they don't know what's going, on
so they don't they think that maybe they're a fan
of theirs is who did this, right like through this
flare right that it was kind of an, attack and
so they're just kind of not sure what to do about,
it But chile is, like you've attacked our. Player you
did this on. Purpose there's a lot of emotion on
The chilean, side but there's healthy speculation and suspicion about

(59:25):
what happened on The brazilian. Side many onlookers are wondering
how a flare would result in the laceration instead of
resulting in. Burns roberto has no. Burns he's insisting the
injury was a result of that flare and there is
no evidence anything different would.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
HAPPENED i know that was going to.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Happen and then like it's like he's a wrestler who
has like a fucking razor blade and his.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Hit, shit yeah up, asleeve right exactly.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
So even though hundreds of cameras are present at the
match that, day it's initially thought they were all pointed
down toward the opposite end of the. Field within, hours
a photographer Named Ricardo alfieri comes forward saying that during the,
game he saw the flare out of the corner of
his eye and he whipped around and snapped five shots

(01:00:13):
as the flare fell to the. Ground oh, shit and
his undeveloped photos gets shopped. Around he basically goes and
shops them to all The brazilian, newspapers and a newspaper
CALLED Oh globo is the one who gets, them buys,
them and in the middle of the night calls the
head of their photo. Lab she's fast asleep at. Home they,
say get in here and develop these pictures for. Us

(01:00:35):
it is unclear how Much alfieri is. PAID espn says
it's around five thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
In nineteen eighty, nine eighty nine eighty, nine five thousand
today is ten thirteen.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
Thousand close, though but no one attempts to translate it
In brazilian, money so we don't know the. Reason we
can just assume that it's he got a bunch of
money much higher than the going. Rate so these five
photographs run in THE O globo newspaper the next, morning
in full, color and they clearly show this flare landing

(01:01:08):
several feet Behind Roberto, rojas making no contact with, him
then him throwing his body into the plume of smoke
and basically becoming a part of. It there's no contact
between this flare And Roberta, rojas and these photos like
to show that very, clearly he's not even close to.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
It it's back.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
There and he's claiming that the cut is on his, forehead,
right and then basically the pictures go that he throws
himself into the flair and then there's. Blood, Right so
now everyone thinks it's in the. Newspaper so now everyone
thinks it's an elaborate's. Done when police track down the
person who's set off the, flair they find out it's

(01:01:52):
a Young brazilian fan in her twenties Named we're not
sure about the pronunciation of this fan's, name but we
think It's Rosaneanery. Mayo so setting off flares was very
common at football games In South, america or at, least you,
know firecrackers and flares.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Whatnot in the.

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
Eighties they would do it a. Lot hers just happened
to be the one that hit the.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Field she pointed it towards the, field.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
Well toward the, field but not toward a. Person so
she's eventually cleared of any involvement in like a conspiracy
to Injure. Rojas but in a weird, twist the public
interest around her becomes so intense she basically becomes an
overnight celebrity for setting the, flare and a few months,
later In, november the same, year she's on the cover

(01:02:36):
Of Brazilian. Playboy WHAT i told you everyone was hot
at this. Game she's basically identified as The maracana fireworks.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Girl, wow she went viral before going viral as, Right she's,
Like i'm in this.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Too but in the, end the investigators Conclude roberto's gash
was self. Inflicted, ack what did he like hit his
head on the ground or. Something, basically he saw the
flare drop and then he opportunistically was like he basically
was going to injure, himself and then basically he thought
the flare is the perfect excuse to be. Injured but

(01:03:12):
basically he doesn't talk about any of. This he keeps
his mouth. SHUT, fifa which is the international football governing,
body Declares chile the match losers and Advances brazil to
the nineteen Ninety World, cup and then months, later after,
INVESTIGATING fifa Hands roberto a lifetime ban from. Competition the

(01:03:35):
Team chile has fined thirty one thousand dollars and that's
how much in today's, money.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Fifty six dollars eighty thousand.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
Dollars, yeah so Basically roberto finally has to come clean
and he reveals he slashed himself with a razor blade
that he'd hidden in his goalie glows shit before the match.
Began what he's just waiting for a moment to do.
This he basically had a backup so that in case

(01:04:03):
it was, needed this could take. Place because they knew,
that you, know like the dirty play was going to.
Happen anything could. Happen they had to be. Ready idea got,
it but.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
You ended up being the dirty player and bad.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Dirty he basically says that the idea of doing this
was like an insurance policy idea that was lingering in his,
head or even an escape patch to Get chile out
of matches that had taken a downward. Turn and he
didn't act. Alone That chilean head coach and team doctor

(01:04:36):
were also in on this.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
Scheme.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
Dude so in an interview, Later roberto tells a newspaper,
QUOTE i cut myself with a razor and the farce was.
Discovered it was a cut to my, dignity and this
all runs under the Headline i'm. Guilty so he genuinely seems,
remorseful which might explain why in two thousand and, ONE
fifa rescends that lifetime ban And Roberto roja goes on

(01:05:02):
to coach goalies in of all, Places, brazil shit shepherding
a new generation of soccer, players and later he becomes
a well known sports pundit In South. America despite, everything
he's in his sixties. Now he is a beloved sports
legend In. Chile he's a hero to many fans In brazil.

(01:05:22):
Too he lives, there he coaches. There his Wife vivian
has TOLD cnn, quote here In, Brazil roberto has always
been loved the most important thing For brazilians is that he,
has in his, interviews come across as a human being
with a very distinct and good, character and he has
admitted his guilt and been Forgiven.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
Yeah take responsibility for your, bullshit and so doubling down
with a bunch of fucking.

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
Yeah lies and being, like, hey how about we talk
about the insane pressure that sports puts on the players
and the staff to win no matter, what at all.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
Costs and that's the story of the Condor Roberto. Rojas.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Wow, yeah he fucking cut himself like a, wrestler like a,
professionals just exactly like how you described. It Ah, yah
that's wonder how many like how many times that's actually
happened and not gotten found.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
Out, well what's funny is Too AND i think it's
also the sweet part of The World cup having such a,
profound beautiful effect on this country is we can celebrate
and enjoy sports without being emotionally invested right, therefore without
beating the shit out of the opposing teams fans in
the parking lot or something like, that and instead enjoy

(01:06:40):
like the show of the show and, suddenly you, know
and maybe it's too, general BUT i think it's true
For american male. Culture you get to be there and
enjoy the fun and the partying and the drinking and
the hooha without turning a bus over and lighting it
on fire because you just are. Like that's enabling the
people In, Lawrence kansas to fully support The albanian team

(01:07:03):
like they even know what's going. On they're just, like, oh,
no We're albanians now because you're here practicing in our. Town,
wow it's really. Lovely BUT i mean, this the other
side of sports is that thing where you're just it's
win no matter, what no matter the, cause no matter
of the.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Cost, yeah for, Sure i'm putting your own pride in
whether that team wins or.

Speaker 3 (01:07:23):
Not how about a little pride and honesty for fuck's?
Sake why is that so?

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Hard? Wow, well great. Job that was a wild. ONE
i had never heard that. Before crazy. Right, Yeah, hey
have you ever done anything like? That let us?

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
Know, hey have you ever pulled a razor blade out
of your goalie glove to make other people feel?

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
Bad write it in at my favorite murder At gmail
for our hometown.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
Episodes, Hey karen And, georgia my Name's Stone Cold Steve
austin And i've pulled a number like this a time or.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
Two, wow great, Job thank. You crazy couple stories, right epic.

Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
ONE i think this show has a summertime vibe to
it of, Like, okay you're gonna tell me that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Story, Now i'm going to tell you. Something it truly
has nothing to do with.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
Anything in the, Meantime i'll take a Bucking martini that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
Skates. Okay so this.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
Batch of Honking horays is brought to you By.

Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
Hyundai thank, You.

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
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Speaker 4 (01:08:23):
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Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Yeah you go.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
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Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
Okay the title Is horay and it says My horay
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Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
With that's.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
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Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
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Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
Hines that's the oldest JOKE i could possibly AS i get.
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Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
Forty it was. Amazing. Wow, yeah let's go do that right.
Now The atlantic, says a little further right, way that's.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
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i picked up rock tumbling as a.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
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Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
NICE i bought my seven years a rock tumbling kit
for his birthday last. Summer he lost interest in the
first few, days But i've been hooked ever. Since my
husband often gently asked me WHAT i plan to do
with all these, rocks AND i tell.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
Him to mind his own. Business. NICE i now.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
Have two rock tumblers going at all, times lots of polished,
rocks and many more waiting to get their. Turn each
group of rocks takes between five to eight weeks to.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
Complete and here are some photos of the.

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
Rocks oh my, GOD i think that's a highly valuable
rock right.

Speaker 4 (01:10:27):
There with this two rock tumblers, GOING i mean serious.
Business answer the question your husband asked a very valid, question.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
What are you going to? Do what are you going
to do with all those?

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
Rocks this one is From kendall s from The Fan
cult And kendall's just. SAYING i took my ten year
old twins to their first concert And florence and The
Machine hell, Yeah, wow that's a huge one for what
was your first?

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Concert my first real concert was Trans addiction at The
Hollywood Ball.

Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
Okay What my first real concert Was chicago at the Cow.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
Palace a six year old. BUSINESSMAN i was just like a.

Speaker 4 (01:11:03):
Freshman and then someone's parents got tickets AND i was, like, sure,
well let's go see a ten man.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
Band thank you again To hyundai for letting us do
these honking. Horays we love.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
Them we love. Them we love to celebrate, you stay
sexy and don't get. Murdered good, Night, Elvis do you
want a? Cookie this has been an exactly right.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
Production our senior producer Is Molly smith and our associate
producer Is Tessa.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
Hughes our editor Is Aristotle. Lascevedo this episode was mixed
By Leona.

Speaker 3 (01:11:36):
Squalacci our researchers Are mayor McGlashan And Ali.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
Elkin email your hometowns To My Favorite murder at gmail
dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
And follow the show On instagram At My Favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
Murder listen To My Favorite murder on The iHeartRadio App
Apple podcasts or wherever you get your.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
Podcasts and now you can watch my favorite murder On.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Netflix and when you're, there hit the double thumbs up
and the remind me.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
Buttons that's the best way you can support our. Show,
goodbye

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540 - Battery and Rock Night

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}540 - Battery and Rock Night