Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 100: The 100th Episode - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
This is a show where we discuss our old episodes
with case updates and new insights. Now one hundred times over.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
This is Rewind four, episode one hundred of the podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
So you don't have to scroll all the way down.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
No, never again, never again. Now, you can just listen
to this start here today we're rewinding, as I just said,
to episode one hundred, and we named this episode what
the one hundredth episode? Incredible work.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
This episode originally came out on December twenty first, twenty seventeen.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Oh my god, back.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
When all right, let's listen to the intro of episode
one hundred.

Speaker 4 (01:07):
Don't jip kip murder, don't jell kip kip bread murder.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Don't yell jem je jot yell j jolly. Welcome to
my favorite murderly loud. Stephen, Hey, it's the one hundred
episode of my favorite murder podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Remember the podcast you've listened to ninety nine point uh
eight times.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Holy crap. I'm pouring myself and Stephen a glass of
this beautiful rose champagne that today I was vincent and
I were walking by this wine store. I was like, oh,
let me go in and get a bottle for the
hundredth episode. And I'm looking through this thing and this
cute girl with blue hairs like I love the podcast.
I'm like, oh my god, thank you. And then the

(01:58):
chick behind the counter he owns the place, is like
I love it too, and they both started like talking
to me about it, and it was really sweet, and
so I just wanted to say thank you to Enovino,
to Susanna at Eno Vino and Jen's Spain photography.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well exciting. I have a cup of tea. I have
a cup of tea, and we have a cake from Carvel, right.
Stephen went and picked it up at the one Los
Angeles location that's been there for a long time.

Speaker 4 (02:29):
Yeah, they've been there for a while and they were
very sweet and yeah they've been after ice cake.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Give it to us. Yeah, amazing, so fucking cool.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
I mean, I don't even remember having the conversation about
talking about how we were going to have this cake
on this day.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
I don't remember talking about ninety nine episodes worth of
things so true. Here we are, and yet we're just
going to keep on talking.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, bloody blah, let's first, we have presence from Steven. Yeah,
let's just describe these, because we walked upstairs into the
beautiful podcast loft and on the podcast coffee table. They're
two what I referred to as hat boxes.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Gorgeous red like gilded hat boxes. Spoilers. Okay, oh okay,
other hats another ap.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
Oh my god, this is beautiful. It is oh.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
Uh oh what are these? Are these dead mics? They're like,
are these like jannat Jackson mics?

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, Steven, God, Stephen got us head mikes.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
This this is what having one hundred podcasts is.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Like, Holy shit, Stephen, we're gonna record. We're gonna record
like gamers do when they when they record themselves for YouTube.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
It's totally true.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
When you can do all your dance moves and everything.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Oh, Steve, you can like you can move your body
the way you've always wanted to Karen, when we're recording,
I have wanted one of these my whole life.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
Shut up.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
I've just never had a reason for it. Steven, Stephen,
thank you. We didn't get you. We're going to know.
I'm so glad you like that.

Speaker 4 (04:11):
I mean, they're just like they're just so fun.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
They're beautiful.

Speaker 4 (04:15):
Just watching Danny Jackson's just like, yeah, do it.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Oh, we're going to be on the next level. Can
we plug them in now?

Speaker 4 (04:22):
Uh, that might take a while.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Can we just put them on?

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Though?

Speaker 4 (04:25):
You can wear them.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
They kind of look like like retain the retainers and
people headgear.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
They look like headgear if you.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Need a visual, And it's totally like what someone would
wear like the top gun or something like that. And
they have like they've got like foam. It's just really intense.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
I feel like I get very It's not that often
that someone gives me the perfect gift because I do.
I don't talk about what I like that much. I
only talk about and focus on what I hate. And
this is just such a fucking hallarous This is such
a perfect gift. It's such a lovely Uh, it's so

(05:06):
perfect for such a lovely gesture.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
For us, for this occasion. Everything about it. Thank everyone,
happier in my life. Oh yes, well, it's just yes,
you're blessing a special day.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
You know what it is. He's forced to listen to us.
Uh huh, so he has to, he has to pay
attention to what we say. He doesn't want the Mic
to keep bumping against my teeth anymore like it always does.
The foam on teeth is world gross to begin with.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
How is your the background noise of just gift wrap
paper constantly being touched.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
I mean that's the new am thing.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
So oh yeah, Karen, I think that you're just going
to start wearing this always. I think you're exactly sleep
and when you're in the car and you're on the phone.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
I have to say, I have a lot of the
same feelings that I had when I was I think
I've told you the story when I was like four
or five and my aunt Jean gave.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
My sister a pair of red Cobbodos.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
For her birthday and the second I saw her open
the box, I screamed, grabbed them, put them on, and
would not take them off, and I wore them for
like three years.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
And this I have very much the same feeling. Can
I say? So? You and I had blah blah blah,
said like, we'll get each other presents for one hundredth episode.
So that looks great on you, does it? My god?
You look like you look like you work at a
call center. Thank you. You look like like and rule
in the seventies, Ted Bundy, you look like you work
next to Ted Bundy.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
I'm trying to help people, but I'm also making friends
with one of the most legendary serial killers of all time.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yes. Yeah, So I was like, well, what do I
get Karen? And I've been stressing about it for like
a week. Spoiler alert, I got you nothing, which is
totally my style. I stress and stress, don't do anything
about it. You froze. So I had it. But I
had good ideas and actually, initially those red cowboy boots
you talked about, I was going to get the cake
made that were red cowboy boots. Oh my god.

Speaker 5 (06:51):
No.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
I didn't do it though, but that doesn't matter. But
that's going to make I had a couple, so I
want points for them. Even though I got fifty points
for red cowboy boot cake. I have a great imagination
and crippling anxiety that doesn't let me do anything about it.
It's that followed through. But I am an honest believer,
and it's the thought the count too. I really am.
I am too. Okay, great, so that was gonna be one.

(07:12):
Then I was thinking I'd either go get a tattoo
or have a tattoo artist come here for us and
give us SSDGM tattoos while we were recording. But I
couldn't remember if you wanted one or not. Too Okay,
Well then I would have gotten one. I mean, I
love the idea of it. Yeah, but it's just not me.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
I have a tattoo that I shouldn't have gotten in
the first place, and in getting it, realized I'm not
a tattoo person.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
I get that. So that was another idea. And then oh,
and then I was just gonna wrap. I was gonna
gift wrap really well, beautiful, like Christmasy gift wrapping, gorgeous,
Just a pan of cheesy potatoes like My Lady from
Unhealthy Obsessions or whatever that TLC show is. Oh yeah,

(07:56):
because you love cheesy potatoes. He's on backstage a lot.
So I was gonna do some version of potato and
cheese are pasta. And maybe I make a good mac
and cheese. Maybe that green things make us cry someday
cheese potatoes save our life.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Well, here's thank you for all those thoughts and for
stressing about it. That's even more of a gift of
true anxiety over it means a lot. I came up
with the idea and when you said, oh, really like
and then I was like yes, and then immediately forgot
and haven't thought about it since I walked in the door.
And you were like, I didn't get you anything, and

(08:31):
I was like, okay, like.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Oh why would you. I don't ever get me anything,
and I'm like plass both said but I immediately I
was like, oh thank god she forgot too, or she
like didn't do it either.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
It's just so classical me. That would be like my
bossy idea. And then I'm just like, I don't know
what you're talking about anyway.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Well, because then I didn't follow through, right it does?
You have no memory of it, and I have no
follow through. And together that's one hundred episodes. Man, dude,
we are we It was.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
A match made in heaven for real. It really was,
because it's like it's a friend of mine. The other
day I forgot we had made dinner plans and then
she texted me. I was like, now, like I had
to move one night on her. Then she texted and
she was like, now I have to move a night
and I was like yay, Like it's never bad news
to me. Yeah, when you flake, cancel, I love it,

(09:17):
or I just never hear from you again. It's always
a relief to me.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
If you see me out at night. I really like you,
you know what I mean? Yet like I or you
you already think I'm a flake and I can't. I've
used up all my flakingness on you. Yes you're scared. Yeah.
There are a couple of friends that are like, oh,
you're actually here. But then they're always like, but you
always make me come to your side of town. When
I'm like, where should we go, I'm like, down the street,
it's so great over here.

Speaker 5 (09:40):
You will.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
But here's the thing, and this is how it is.
Sometimes you got a cop. If you live in an
area where it's just not that cool, yeah, like you
can go out. This is the thing. You have to
like master plan.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
You have to think of everybody in the plan because
there are people who are like, oh, I'm married and
have a kid, so if we go to dinner, I
don't give a shit where we go because it's all
the same to me. But if you're like a single
lady trying to maximize your time because you finally left
the house after two weeks, you don't want to go
to fucking the Grandma restaurant.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
You don't want to go to like when your friend's
like when you're single and your friend's like, just come
over and we'll make I'll make dinner. Like, No, I
want the possibility of seeing a hawkeye at a bar.
Don't waste my time in front of your TV. No
percent get that.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yes, yeah, it's like if I if I'm going to
make the monstrous efforts of putting clothes on this body
and rolling on outside, we've got to actually do something
that's like worth the while.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
There's no way you're fucking whatever salad you throw together
is gonna be good as like a cheese plate from
the fucking nice restaurant. Yes, and let's spend some money.
Come on, come on, let's do it. Don't care time?

Speaker 2 (10:44):
And did you hear about the asteroid that came within
three miles of the earth? No, I love that though,
I mean, guys are on a clock. Let's maximize this
fun please this Christmas season.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
I went to my Hanuka party last weekend over the weekend,
which was super fun, and all my young sweet cousins
listen to the podcast how Young, Well they're like in
there they're like just had a college so they're all
COOLT Savannah, Jillian High ladies. Hi, they're just like sweet
little angels and then and I love them.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
It's so very cool. Yeah, I have family too who
are like it's people that you don't expect. I was
the young like twenty year olds that I know or
that like Lauren and Connor and Johnny know are my family.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
You know.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
I'm always like, they don't care about anything from my eras,
like why would they there?

Speaker 1 (11:38):
We're boring old people. The life, the way we live.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Is so different that it's like we might as well
be from different sides of the planet. So good God,
bless go do your thing. So when they come and
they're like, oh my god, all my friends like you,
it's like what It honestly feels like a ghost has
walked through the wall and been like, oh my god,
we like you.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
A validating you. Suddenly it's like, oh my god, I'm not.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
It's validating you from people that you're like, I have
to dismiss your group because it's sad when old people
want young people to think they're cool.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
But podcasts, there's something about them. It's all old people.
It's mind control. It's mind control. Mm hmm. How's my
headset look? It looks still glorious. You look like Judith
from HR. And then every time you say something and
that you have to touch your the ear piece lightly.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
That's right, because I'm also I have to be honest.
I'm a little bit playing news Copter four pilot like
I'm a.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Traffic reporter right now, Karen and Karen Kay and the
sky guys. I'm looking right down at the I five
and everything's on fire. Oh on my way here. That's
the only thing you can say. That's like the only
time that ring Karen kaout is where there's a fire
in the south planted.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
It's always on fire. Hey, it's twenty eighteen and we're
on fire. Sorry, I did a terrible radio voice. But
on the exit to come here, there was a there
was a slow down. Of course, I went five miles
an hour the whole time. This it's so fascinating to
talk about La traffic.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
Everyone loves it.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
But when I took the exit there was like a
huge tow truck and then when we all had to
drive by it real slow.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
It was a Maserati that had rear ended like a
Kia and it was I laughed.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
So hard because Masarati is, why do you drive that car? No,
you're just flossing. You're just trying to make people think
you're important.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
Raty oh god. And then one listener who drives a
Maserati right now is like, I fucking knew it. My
brother told me it was cool.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
I fucking I fucking knew it, you know. And I'm
taking this fork. We brought forks up here. I'm I'm
digging into this car bell cake.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Eating food on a podcast into a microphone and it's
now a MS as mr right, it's as ms a sap.
Oh my god, it's not so good. Fuck. Okay, let's
fucking cooking channel unique sweet stash for a minute, do it?
Can I say, yeah, seven, are you gonna eat any
of this? Even there's a pork budge of the whale

(14:04):
cake where I said grab the cake in four and
three forks, and you got so excited that I didn't
say plates yeah, because there's no fucking chance we're cutting
this and put it in plate. It's kind of monsters
eating we are Yep, this isn't fucking tea time with
Karen and Georgia or whatever. It's an ice cream cake,
but there's like a layer of marshmallow fluff in it.

(14:24):
It's crunchy from the like cookie pieces.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
No, that's what it's like famous for, right right, And
it's got the like fudgy frosting and just a little
bit of cake.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
It's not a ton of cake.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
It's there's barely in a cake that there's also a
strip of caramel. Oh my, underneath this fudge frosting. It's
like my mouth is watering and I'm eating it at
the same time.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
That's how good it is. What's really fun about eating
a thing? I should talk mm hm, I was talking
the microphone. It's really fun about eating a thing like this,
Like when you become an adult, is you gonna eat
it and make as big a mess as you want?

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (15:00):
M Also, here's what's really funny.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
I think there's a lot of people on the East
Coast that probably think this is hilarious because we're describing
a thing that'd.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Be like, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
It's like the peanut butter is right next to the
jelly where they're like, yeah, everyone's had this.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
You don't need to describe it. This is our childhood.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Nobody cares.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Every single person had this for their birthday. Bar It's
like you, we didn't know. I've never had that in
my life. M neither.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
It's the best.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Fuck. Let's get sugar high and party.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
You know it's so funny if we can get into
it really quickly. Someone tweeted today at us yes in
said okay, hold on, Stephen, wait hold on.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
They said, please eat a whole cake on the show,
and I said, sounds great.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
When we did it, I'd love to. They said, you
know what, that's a great idea. That's my gift to
you is dessert for dinner. Oh my god, that's so good.
I want to cry. Steven, don't you love it? Stephen?
Keeping in it so good? Keeping it meaning it while
I find this tweet and we're back.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
Wow, one hundred episodes. I'm glad we celebrated.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
I mean, the range of growth, that's just I want
to focus on that for a second. Is the full
range of growth that we've shown in this series one
hundred alone.

Speaker 3 (16:19):
How many episodes do we have now? Like five hundred
over five hundred, right, Molly? How many we just recorded?
Five thirty four, five thirty four and one hundred is
nothing finding celebrating.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
This sets back before we understood anything that was going on.
So in the episode, Steven gave us headphones in gift
boxes like this, Oh there are oh I know, look
that's day of This is a listener if you're only listening.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Uh, Molly, just put up a picture of the Day
of the hundredth episode and the gifts we got.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
There's forks everywhere, in a carvel, budgie, the whale cake.
I also want to point out that there's the old
forks everywhere. The joke about podcasting pajamas, I'm literally wearing
pajama pants.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah, photo, So that was.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Back when we didn't have to care about our appearance
because we were merely podcasters.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
Let's open these. Look at the little vial. What do
you think is in that?

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Look at my tiny iPhone?

Speaker 3 (17:13):
Look at that.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
I'm on Twitter as we record.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
There's my wine.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
Okay, okay, I'm excited. No, yeah, do these really work?
Not currently, but we can make them work.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
But we can put them on as if laies are
going to look great? Yes, because they're kind of like headpants.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
Yeah exactly.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Hello, do you know I wish I could wear my
sunglasses on my head at all times as like an accessory.
It's like a headpant.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
I just think it looks good, but you want to
do that at night? What about this? This is great too?

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Hello True crime podcasting? May I help you?

Speaker 3 (17:51):
Hello? The Paging doctor Isaiyas.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
Page being doctor podcast.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
These are great. Thanks.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Here we can dance and we're wearing them the whole time.

Speaker 5 (18:02):
So in that red box that showed up in that
photo we just threw to, Stephen had the original Janet
Jackson style headsets, and that's what this is as well,
a nod to that.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Thank you more headsets. You know I still have that
gift box. I store belts in it.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
Nice. Well, what I love is this these we Stephen
gave us these headsets for our hundreds original we immediately
lost them some again after we never saw them again,
and then for this one hundredth rewind we get to
go back. Here they are and now I finally get
to live my headphone Janet Jackson life.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
You look great. Also double triple, you have triple microphones
right now?

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Triple?

Speaker 2 (18:45):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
I have so many microphones and so much scotch tape
on me. You got two microphone up, you're a microphone influencer. Okay,
I'm taking this off.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
Okay, no, I look it off.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
I mean thank you so much. I love I love
that we finally have these in our hands. We actually
get to enjoy these. If there's a day where we
can actually podcast with them on and use them, that's
where I want to get to.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
This way, we can walk and talk podcast from all
over the office.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
All over the office, and we can take drive through orders.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
Oh that's true.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
It's going to be so good. Okay, now we're back
in the show we're doing.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
I have information for you. I have an update on Carvel.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
So the Santa Monica Boulevard in Westwood location has closed permanently. Yeah.
As of twenty twenty six, are only three remaining Carvel
locations operating in California.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
Wow, do you want to guess we're there?

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Duarte? No, Hanford, merced Random, that's up by Modesta Madeira.
I think there's water slides there. Yeah, that's Mantiqa.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
I'm sorry, Lamore, I've never heard of that place.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Oh, that's across the freeway from Hanford.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
What's Hanford?

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Pantford is what the city? I just guessed because it's
on the way up the five. This is local jokes.
Get local the definition.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Why are they all in northern California or central Central?

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (20:04):
But I mean how did they stay in business when
the LA one couldn't? I thought the demand was from
the hipsters who were from the East Coast that lived
in LA.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
We have all that artisan ice cream and all that.
You know, it has to be earl gray and tobacco flavor. Now,
I don't like that.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
You don't like the weird flavors.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
I want to buy it. I'm so up for ice cream.
I want don't put gorgonzola.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
And I was just going to say, I want blue
cheese and cherries. No, that was the best ice cream ever.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Fucking salad. If that's what you want so bad, I'm sorry.
That's not what we're trying to do on the one
hundredth episodes.

Speaker 3 (20:35):
Okay, So we both covered the same story on this episode.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
This was a cool idea where we broke format and
we're like, now for the hundredth we're going to celebrate
by doing the same story together.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
We should do that again. Sure that's homework.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
I mean we break up a story Havesi's yeah, one
does one one does the other.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
Okay, so let's get into it.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Someone write this down.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
We are going to get into our one hundredth story,
the big Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
This is the story about the mysterious suspicious death of
Kathleen Peterson. All right, A guy named his Twitter handle
is Manny Patinkin. Oh my God, Manny Patinkin Manny twenty

(21:22):
one eighty nine. Text Us added Stan tour set. So
you guys talked about the staircase death a lot in
the start of your podcast days, but you guys never
fully got into it, and I still have no idea
what it is. And owl question mark. Someone sent us
that today. Really, Yes, that's hilarious.

Speaker 4 (21:41):
How weird is that?

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Because on our first episode and Stephen went back and
listened to it, wrote up some nice notes for us.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
It's called do diligence, that's right, and he did it.
He did his diligence, dude. He did his duty.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
So we didn't have to do no duty exactly. But
we talk about the staircase. We both believed I think
for a while we believed we had covered it. But
it was just conversation, a long conversation, and then the
fun reveal that you told me.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Was it.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Then when we decided, okay, for the hundredth episode, we're
going to cover the staircase together.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Officially, I just realized I'm like trying to surprise everyone
by telling them that we're doing the staircase. But then
I just realized they saw in the description of the
podcast episode when they press play probably yeah, it's not
a surprise. It's not. And you know, at some point
you got to reveal the surprise. What if, Steven, you
put in the description surprise one hundredth episode case Okay,
Oh my god, they're gonna fucking shit, guys. Surprise, but

(22:40):
there is a surprise, because then what what was your reveal? Okay,
so yesterday not yesterday last week. This is how fucking
this is how professional this podcast is. As Karen Steven
are walking out of my door after we recorded, and
we're trying to guess, like whatever, which we were gonna
we want to cover a story together, blah blah blah.
And as we're walking out the door or you walking
out the door, I'm like one of us is like, staircase, great, goodbye.

(23:02):
I think it was you. Okay, and so I credit
thank you, but I don't want to I don't need it.
I turn on the Staircase to watch it and realize
I have just been bullshing it this past couple of
years when people are like, have you seen the Staircase,
And I'm like, yeah, because I don't want to be
like no, of course, you know, and I kind of
convinced myself that I had seen it. But as we're

(23:23):
watching episode one, I was like, oh my god, I've
never fucking seen this. I've watched the forensic files about it,
and I've read a ton about it, but I've never
fucking watched the actual documentary. It's so funny.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Basically, the entire relationship and our story, our origin story,
is predicated on the fact that we both talked endlessly
about the Staircase at that at Matt's.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
Halloween party, and all of that's a lie. That's like
a miss that I remembered about it. No, of course,
but I didn't know. I didn't know, you know what.
After watching most of it, I didn't know what I
was talking about, which just goes to show what a
fucking glass of whiskey will do.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
But you did in that way where this is this
is one of the stories that's been around for so long,
and we've talked about that where the first couple true crime,
like you know, for to eight hours types of shows
that I saw about it presented it in a very clean,
clear cut way. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
I went back and watched the forensic files, which we'll
talk about once we get through it. But it's definitely
this is the story. And then shit just keeps throughout
the years getting added onto it. Yes, and it's really crazy.
And I do have to say watching the documentary gave
me a completely different So guys, go watch the Staircase.
It's like a ten part documentary, Yeah, forty five minutes
each or something like that.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
This is what I love about this case is it's
all opinion. I mean, there's just so many potential. This
is I feel like this is the part of true
crime where people started to go, oh, yeah, the justicism
and I should say this white people whoor like not
people of color started to go, oh, the justice system could.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Get swayed one way or the other based on what the.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
People in charge think of who they're trying, right, and
that I don't think anyone really really looked at that
much before this case, where there's like, now, look at it,
this way and then you're like, oh my god, they
hated him because of this and that.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
I mean, this is the original jinks. This is the
original making a murderer. Like, if you have feelings about that,
you know, you need to watch this. I think this
was way before. It's you know, time, and I think
this also two years before. It seems so vintage, doesn't it. Well,
the like the American Justice I watched today was super vindu.

(25:47):
Yeah yeah, well I watched the Forensic Okay, let's talk
about the fucking case. All right, well, let's get into this.
Do you get into it? So this is this is
the death of Kathleen Peterson.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
The episode of The American Justice that I watched starring
Bill Curtis from two thousand and four was called Blood
on the Staircase.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Okay, well, the Forensic Files is called a novel idea
because he was a novelist. It's a novel idea to
kill your wife. Yeah. I'm like, oh man, yeah, love it.
Blood on the Staircase. Okay, sorry, steven On, can I

(26:31):
just say, yeah, oh wait, are we going to cut
that entirely?

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Kius Georgia cut up to get something and as she
walked over to her stairs started walking down then and goes,
oh my god, what if I fall down the stairs?

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Wouldn't that be great? Have I just died? Are you
falling down the stairs? So clean? One hundredth episodes about
a staircase fall. About a staircase fall.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
You can't see anything, so Steven and I can actually
say anything we want happened. And as long as we're
on the same page.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
And the recording would be played in court over and
over again because as I yell, I go no, Karen
and Stephen, that's what I yell for no reason. And
then I'll be like your honor.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
You can clearly hear Stephen stroking his mustache.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
You know he's sitting down.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, you can you hear me eating cake and drooling
about fucking well.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Where was the cake place at the time? Was it
on the staircase? It was into my mouth? Okay the
whole time. Should we just read them at the same time?
And sure? And then I was thinking, you mean two
people talk on the same time just because they're ready
on December nineteennineteen or nineth seventy two. Also, I also
I think at the beginning of this we should say
what we think like what we think the truth is okay,

(27:41):
and I think we should say that till the end. Well,
I mean to convince you at my truth? Okay, what
are you about you? What about you?

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Well?

Speaker 1 (27:49):
I was just gonna I mean maybe we just talked
through okay it and as we go and we'll just
and then we're yelling at each other. Then we have
different opinions. Yes, if we're like building each other up,
if love can build a bridge, Yeah, then we both
think he's guilty. I definitely think he's good.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
Me too.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah. Well, you know what's funny is, before I watched
The Doctor the Staircase, I thought I was like, well
they owl theory makes so much sense, which we'll get
to you guys. Yes, But now that I'm like, oh no,
you're so sweet, baby angel. You think that fucking UFOs exist?
And how they do?

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Now we know?

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Now we know they do. They do.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Alien unidentified alien alloys have been discovered. Aliens exist, We've
all I've known that anyone that watches ancient Aliens knows
it and has known it for quite some time.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
So I bar a Siamese cat knows that they're fucking alien.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
That aliens live here, they were here first, Huh, it's
their planet, we're visiting it everything.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Wait, uh no, but uh, I was gonna say that.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
I think that the in that documentary is so amazing
and effective is because you never see, or you rarely
see the murderer's family featured the way this family's featured.
So you go through it with the family, yeah, and
you want what the family wants because there's so much

(29:21):
pain and horror going on, and the layers keep unpeeling
where you're like, oh no, So then you start to understand.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Why people do the things they I had it was
so watching it was so problematic for me because it
kind of it made me what's so funny about the
documentary is clearly made from a standpoint that he is innocent,
which is so ironic that it made me one hundred
percent sure that he's guilty. So there's something fucking off there.

(29:50):
And what is off is Michael Peterson's personality. Hell yeah,
and how fucking creepy and narcissistic and wrong he is.
And I swear to God, the two doctor the daughters,
they're in a fucking cult. Don't call your dad right
because he's because you got to get off the phone
with your dad. Those girls. Man, it's very sad, but it's.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
But I think, well, I think that documentary wasn't necessarily
on his side. I think they were doing the we're
just veritey, we're here to record what's happening, and what
happens happened.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Land out so much evidence that that that's I just
don't think that's possible.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Oh okay, well, but I think it in in pretending
that it's guiding you this way, opens the door to
let you go that way.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
It's that thing of like you can come all the
way into the house because we know he's innocent, and
then you're like, yeah, I smell a rat, which none
of that would have happened if they hadn't done it
that way.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
It's like, it's the case of fucking this guy who
thinks that he seems very empathetic and that and seems
deep and interesting, when really everyone is so onto him.
Can I read what he's what he can? I just
can we start by me saying, uh, when he got out,
when he got out on bail of prison, the first
thing he said, are you ready for are you ready

(31:08):
for this? To say that, oh, do have it on car,
Go ahead, and then we'll see if it's the same thing. Okay,
Kathleen was my life. I whisper her name in my
heart a thousand times. She is there, but I can't
stop crying.

Speaker 6 (31:22):
Kathleen, where's my life? I whispered her name in my
heart a thousand times. She is there, but I can't
stop crying. It's just like I would never have done anything.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
That's okay, I am charges real loud, and we will
prove it.

Speaker 5 (31:42):
Be for it.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Well, if we're gonna, I have such a talk about
about those last two lines too. Oh my god, let's
get into this. This is gonna be fun because those
last two lines, Oh god, I have this okay, but really.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Quick, so you and I just picked out the exact
same moment where because that was also in.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
That episode of The Way Everyone. He's in an asphalt
parking lot when he says.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
That with camp with news cameras in front of him,
and he is doing the worst acting.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
It's like a sorrow. It's it's it was faux somber.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
And then like, I'm a really good writer. So here's
you can see him practicing this in the mirror. It
is the fakest fucking thing you've ever seen. And it
is such a presentation, it's so much.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Artific and the background is his poor daughter. Okay, serious, God.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
I was going to say it's starting from the nine
to one one call, which is also insanely faked. Okay, well,
here's what I told see you and let me out
here up for that, you know what, we might need
to start doing things at the same one at.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
This episode one hundred through fucking ninety nine is us
two gethers. They're not knowing.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, we don't know what the case is. Either that
or this is because we both want to say something.
The most irritating episode you've ever did.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
The biggest cluster fuck, which is why, like some people
who don't know what this case is are like, can
you just tell me what happened first? If you don't
know what the case is, you know what, you know what,
you know what? Hang up? Please don't hang up the phone,
Hang up the phone, all right?

Speaker 4 (33:05):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
On December ninth, two thousand and one, this dude named
Michael Peterson you heard his voice, He's a creep, called
nine one one to report that he had just found
his wife of fourteen years forty eight year old Kathleen unconscious,
and he said he thought that she fell down the
stairs of their Forest Hills home in Durham, uh, North Carolina.
Ye Michael said that he had been outside by the

(33:26):
pool and had come in at two forty am to
find Kathleen at the foot of their stairs. He maintained
that she must have fallen down the stairs, app because
they had been drinking and she had taken valium all night.
Interjected any fucking moment.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Oh, I was just gonna say, vallium is kind of
a one off thing and my experience, Yeah, it's not
like you party with it all night long. All right,
you take the one you're gonna go to.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Bed, good night. Yeah, and a story. Yeah okay. But
when police arrived, the amount of blood on the walls
made them suspicious, so toxic. College reports showed that Kathleen
had an alcohol content of zero point zero seven percent.
How make Karen? I want to ask you something right now,
I was thinking, can be fun. We gotta we got
a breathalyzer and made Steven get that drunk and see

(34:07):
it's not that Druyn and I way.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Say that down the stairs, four healthy glasses of wine. Yeah,
because point eight is legally right, that's that's not illegal
in North Carolina. But see, my point is it's not
that high like you can get arrested for buzz driving
because point eight is not sloppy, drunk crazy point eight.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
You shouldn't drive at that point you have impaired yourself,
but you're not you know, you know, so Devil's advocate,
it's not impossible that that at that point you'd fallen
down the flight of stairs if you're running up them. Yeah,
but sorry, she's running up stairs.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, and she's falling backwards, not not from the top
of the stairs, but almost from the bottom of the stairs.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Well, let's get to that, okay too. So Michael claimed
that he had been outside by the pool with Kathleen.
They had been talking because they're madly in love with
each other, according to him, until she went in around midnight,
and that he had come home come back in around
forty five minutes later. Two four. I don't know the
timeline is where to find her at the foot of

(35:11):
the stairs. So but here's the thing. It was fucking
December and he's saying he's sitting by the pool finishing
his drink and shit and shorts and a T shirt.
It's fifty to fifty five degrees outside.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
You know how you do, right, which is like, yeah,
your couch and your warmhouse is whatever forty feet away,
You're just gonna go sit by the ball unless they
were fighting for forty five minutes.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
But it's also a fucking collacial mansion, so there's eight
hundred rooms for you to go into.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yes, but I mean like if they got into a
spat at the pool, yeah, and she stormed in a
if she fell so badly that she was killed, you
would hear that, and you would hope that you would
be clonk even if you didn't know for sure, you'd
be like, maybe I should go check, even if I'm mad,
I should go check.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
He doesn't do that right for an hour? Yes, ok
da da da okay, and the other thing is too,
so he calls nine to one one and before the
ambulance gets there. Between that time, his son Todd from
a previous marriage, who's like in his twenties, is already there.
Well what's he doing there? Okay? Well he lived at

(36:16):
the house though, No he didn't. Oh I thought he did.
I don't think he did.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
He was out of the house at a party. Yes,
this was a The American Justice that I watched. He
was down the street at a party, okay, and then
came home.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
So the autopsy report concluded that Kathleen sustained severe injuries,
including a fracture of the thyroid neck cartilage, which isn't
the hyoid bone noways talk about, but something similar, and
seven lacerations at the top and back of her head
consistent with blows from a blunt object caused by homicidal assault,
and had died from blood loss ninety minutes to two

(36:51):
hours after sustaining her injuries. So here's what I was thinking,
Since we both think he's guilty and it's all bullshit,
should we listened to the nine one one call? No,
come on, okay, you can play it. You can play it,
but it's we can we can say it too.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
It's normally nine one one calls upset me because it's
a real moment of the worst.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
It like makes my adrenaline go yeah like, but this.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Instead fills me with absolute disgust because it's insanely faked.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
That's why I want to listen to it, because it's like,
do you have it? I told Steven, I have it ready.
Just it's just so unbelievable to me. Your margins, the street, grief,
what wrong? Why kind of act still bring?

Speaker 5 (37:34):
What kind of act?

Speaker 3 (37:37):
He will be?

Speaker 5 (37:38):
Conscious?

Speaker 1 (37:39):
Conscious?

Speaker 7 (37:40):
No, she's not conscious?

Speaker 4 (37:42):
How many stairs did.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
You throw down? How many for bears? How many stairs?
Calm nails, stars comnails? So fifty and I don't know.

Speaker 4 (37:55):
Get somebody who work.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
In the ambulance. I want to ask you questions.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Okay, he is the fakery is he wants to get
off that phone. He is playing a part and he
can't sustain it. He's delivering his part and that's all
he can do. And he it's that thing in like
acting where it's like if you scream really loud, then
you've are there's nowhere else to go. So he he

(38:22):
didn't start trying to be calm, which is I think
what people normally do, or if they're having a reaction,
they they listen because they need help. So they want
to listen to what the person who can give them
help is doing and saying, because the person on.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
The other line is going to tell them how to
potentially save this person's life. So you need to calm
down and listen to them. That's what they're trained to do.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Yeah, but he's not doing any of those things because
he just wants the big show of how.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Upset he right, and he wants to deliver his information
a that she's still alive, to lie about the timeline
and that she fell downstairs. The fact that he doesn't
mention and if you see the photos, it's an insane
amount of blood, and the fact that he doesn't yell
there's so much blood. Oh my, you know, like most
people if they see the mam but a blood would
freak the fuck out.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
Yes, uh, you know the blood part when you like
in the when the one that I was watching, the
second the camera goes in and they have like the
police camera of walking in the amount of blood that's
there is so ridiculous for a stair fall, for a
slip and fall downstairs, Yeah, which is not if you
think about like when you fall down you skin your knee,
if you hit your head, you'd have a little bit

(39:27):
of blood.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Is blood everywhere at the bottom of the stair cooling
and then smeared and then splattered over it like it's nuts.
And the other thing that this so this person or
sla Franco who's a criminologist. She's a really great website
m A. L k. E. Crime Notes. She she does

(39:48):
the thing I love, which she breaks down the wording.
And in a lot of his speeches and things he says,
and one of them is that when he said, when
she says how many stairs, that's a question he did
not expect to hear. And it takes him fifteen to
twenty five seconds from the beginning of the call to
answer that because he wasn't near the body when he
was asked that question.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
So the thing is, and she says, most people when
someone is hurt are next to the body because they're
ready to help and they want direction on how to help, right,
But he was in another room, away from the mess,
and so he stalls by saying, uh, stairs, And it's
only because he has to run over and see how
many stairs there are.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
And they said when they did the luminoal test, they
showed barefoot tracks away from the area and going into
different parts of the house.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
So he was in the blood. He was standing over
her body.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
And then left, which is like if your loved one,
the person that you love the most in the world
was laying in a pile of blood.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
Where are you going? Yeah, like that doesn't it doesn't
really track no, seemingly yes, well we're always right, okay.
So also there's a bloody shoeprint. So, so Kathleen is
found in this prone position on her back at the

(41:12):
bottom of the staircase, like laying up the first couple stairs, right,
So she's on her back, but on the back of
her sweatpants is a shoeprint that matches the shoes that
Michael was wearing that night. But when the ambulance arrives
and the MT arrives, he's not wearing shoes for some reason.

(41:32):
He's fucking barefoot and his socks and shoes are off
and like near her body. Why is that because he
didn't want to track it? Probably right, So how would
her how would his shoeprint end up there?

Speaker 2 (41:43):
You mean, look like when he kicks her down the
stairs or kicks her from behind or something. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Well also that when they get into and I mean,
we're not gonna be.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
Able to do this chronologically, I don't like it's it's
rexit for the discussion. But like in the in the
case when when they talk about when the defense is
talking about what possibly could have happened to make that
much blood, that is not an attack.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
And that many and that many wounds on her head
because it's seven wounds. So it's not like she fell
down the stairs and maybe would have sustained two head injuries.
Let's let's be generous, because we also know she didn't
fall from the top of the stairs. Yeah, she fell
from five or six stairs up. Yeah, so to get
seven head injuries, how did they explain it? It's fucking hilarious.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
She falls, she hits her head, she gets up, spits blood,
like they're trying to rationalize how blood is everywhere, she
slips and falls back down, which is.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
Explaining the fact that she had blood on the bottoms
of her bare feet, even though if she had so,
if she had fallen and become unconscious, she wouldn't have
blood on the bottoms of her feet, right, So she did,
how Like they have to explain that too, right, So
that's then they say that she does that multiple times,
tries to get up, falls and hits her head hard
enough to last right from fucking skull.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
So meanwhile, her loving, loving husband is sitting out by
the pool. She is slipping and falling in her own
blood and dying and he doesn't hear it and doesn't
come inside for forty.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Five from a point zero seven wine intake and a valium.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
I just keep thinking of the time I fell down
on the street in front of the movie theater, my
legendary story where I skin my knee. When you fall down,
even like say eight stairs, you break a hip, you
break your kneecap.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
I don't think anyone ever does that.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
But I'm just saying, yes, you sprain your ankle, you
get a concussion on your head. If you did cut
your head, you have a little bit of blood. The
idea that there's a pool of blood, blood splattered on
every wall, smeared all around.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
And to be fair, we all know the head the
scalp bleeds profusely. Yeah, fair enough, But why would seven
lacerations be present if you know it's it's and all
in the same spot. It's not like all like she's
falling down and hit her temple, hit the back of
her head. It's all on the back and lower part
of her head, as if she was running up the

(44:08):
stairs away from someone. Yep, and they hit her with something.
It clocked her like repeatedly beat her down. Essentially, what
I think is interesting is that there's a spot of
blood on the wall, as if the first attack had happened,
someone tried to clean up the blood and then she
wasn't dead, and there's blood. There's blood spray over the

(44:30):
spot where someone was trying to clean the blood off
the wall. Yes, as so that means either I think
it's either that she became conscious again and wasn't dead
and he beat her again, or he tried to clean it,
realized it wasn't going to work, and so tried to
cover up that clean spot with more blood just kind
of sprayed it on there. Jesus, do you know what

(44:52):
I mean? Yes, that's dark. I mean, like the idea
that then he's just he's just like dissociated, like, but
she can tell the difference between the blood that was
already there in the blood that wasn't that came later. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean, there's so many things in this case that
make it so he'll never so people can question this forever,
and one of them is the fucking blood spatter analyst.

(45:16):
I mean, who Dwayne, Dwayne?

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Dwayne Truly my favorite part of that documentary because he
looks like he was cast by the Cohen Brothers.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
He is the goofiest looking motherfucker.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
And the way he talks about the blood spatter, the
way he gets excited like he's the expert here or whatever.
And then of course, come to find out later on,
after this case, after he's tried, after he's convicted, this
blood spatter guy turns out. Wait, I have the details
here from Stephen's timeline and also from I wrote dirty

(45:50):
Dwayne Deaver, Dirty Dwayne.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
A government ordered.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
Inquest found the agents of the SBI, including Dwayne Deaver,
repeatedly aided prosecutor and obtaining convictions over a sixteen year
period by misrepresenting blood evidence and keeping critical notes from
the attorneys. It was thirty four cases where he falsely
represented evidence.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
So essentially, Michael Peterson gets found guilty, he spends eight
years in prison, and then fucking dirty Dwayne comes out
that he's a lying liar who lies. Yeah, and all
this shit comes out. And so even if his fucking
even if his blood spatter analysis in this case was
totally correct, it doesn't fucking matter which some of it

(46:32):
is and some of it I understand isn't.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
Well it's a lot of it is just him riffing.
So it's like him at home going, well, if you
do this, then this and if we hear I'm going
to do this one. Yeah, he's doing a lot of
like I approximated it, so this is scientific.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Evidence, like he does it enough times until it fits
the story he wants to tell, right, which is so problematic, Yeah,
and crazy and the idea that.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
That amount what was I gonna say it was the
amount of blood and the yeah, just to me, it's
open and shut in that part where it's like if
you're saying she fell backwards down the stairs a couple times,
it still does not It just doesn't explain that amount
of blood, right, it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Right, Well, he so Michael Peterson also had blood on
the inside crotch of his shorts, so that you know dirty.
Dwayne's argument was that could only happen if he was
standing over her beating her blood spatter, which is probably
fucking true.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yes, But but then I guess scientifically you can say,
but you could sit here and go, or if he
he flicked his shoe up, and there's some like you
can't attest for what happens to liquid in a certain scenario.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
The thing I think is super fake.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
I mean, like it sucks because that guy himself being
a fraud, made everything a fraud. Where it's still well,
it's the amount of blood, whatever direction it's spattered in
or whatever. This is not a I fell down the
stairs and hit my head a couple times reasonably.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Yeah, this is like a murder scene. But there's like
four things and we'll get to all of them. But
there's four things that make you go, this isn't this
isn't an open and shutcase. And one of them is
dirty Dwayne, and we'll get to the other ones well.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
And the daughter I never saw this in the staircase,
but the daughter Caitlin, who was Kathleen's daughter from her
first marriage, she said that when they first when Kathleen
and Michael first got married and she moved into the
house with the family, she saw him with like a
hair trigger temper and rage issues several times.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
I've never heard.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
In this episode of American Justice, they have her speaking
and she's not in Yeah, as far as I remember,
she's not in the staircase.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
She's not because she was his two biological sons, his
two adopted daughters and Caitlin, who was Kathleen's daughter. We're
all on his side. And then Caitlin saw the autopsy
report and changed her mind. Then she ended up suing him,

(49:13):
took him winning and winning for her uncle death. Okay, sorry,
because he did it. It's like he did it just
from the get go. But okay, let's talk about the
fucking problems that pop up. And they pop up. It's
so interesting on staircase because they pop up during the recording.

(49:33):
Do you want to get into those? Sure, the gay
porn thing. I love that guy. He's my favorite part
of the staircase. Oh my god? What did he What
was his argument on the stand? What did he say? Verbatim?
I knew Dittaly Oh, I mean, he had a lot
of good quotes. Let's get into Okay, So what I
wrote about was that, like there were there were two motives,

(49:57):
and one was that Kathleen had a one point five
million dollar life insurance policy. Why uh huh, Well, because
she's so high, she was very fucking wealthy, had a
good job, but so around two million with all of
her assets and with the time of her death, and
that the Peterson's were at the time were facing financial issues.

(50:21):
They had one hundred and forty three thousand dollars in
debt at the time of Kathleen's death. Kathleen's company was
undergoing major layoffs. Kathleen was in danger of losing her
one hundred and forty five thousand dollars a year job
and her benefits, and she had deferred a lot of
her salary, so they didn't have a lot of cash,
which is why they were in so much debt. And
Michael hadn't had income for a lot of years, so

(50:45):
so and also I think secretly the sons weren't a
lot of debt as well, because there was an email
to Michael Peterson's ex wife talking about how they were
going to deal with their son's debt. And in the
email it's said, Michael says, I cannot speak to Kathleen
about this. Oh, because it's because the money was such

(51:06):
a huge issue. Because who knows why. Yeah, because money
was an issue because she was sick of you know,
this is speculation, because she was sick of helping them
because you know, they weren't her biological sons for whatever reason.
You know, they'd gotten in illegal trouble in the past.
Which is true. So so there was some secret of
stuff going on about money. So there's money, which I

(51:29):
don't think is I think this is a crime of passion.
I don't think the money. No, I don't think. I
don't think the money, and I don't think the gay porn,
which you don't know.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
In the American justice they're like, Kathleen was on his
hour on his computer two hours before her death, and
they the theory is that she stumbled upon.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
I don't think it's a gay porn. I think it's
fact that he was trying to hire a sex a
gay sex worker to have sex with and she stumbled
upon that information. Don't think it's that.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
No, Well, what do you think the motive is?

Speaker 2 (52:03):
I don't know, but I mean you could her going
on his computer doesn't mean she found anything.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Yeah, but okay, except that she never went on that computer.
The only reason she was doing is because the next
morning she had a conference call and so she didn't
have her home her work laptop at home with her.
So one of her colleagues sent her some information that
she needed to get off the home computer, so she
checked it before midnight, which she never did. She had

(52:31):
to ask Michael Peterson for the password to get into
the their joint email account, so she was never on
that computer, and he had printouts of a conversation he
had with a mail escort about the kind of sex
that they were going to have and like when he
could come over. I read all those the emails between
the two of them. It's fucking intense. Well, but is

(52:53):
there truth that she read that? Well, I mean no,
But if she opened the drawer drawer to get a
pen or whatever and found this, or you know, clicked
on one email in their email chain and saw it,
I mean, it's so easy when she's on that PC
to find any evidence of this, gave this, you know,

(53:16):
his bisexuality, his hiring escorts, his affairs with men that
he had had in their relationship. It's so easy if
she had not stumbled upon that and then died that night.
I mean, it's just there's there's too much of a
link between those two things to me.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Well, I just think if he'd been doing that secretly
for a long time, he wouldn't have them printed up
and sitting in a drawer like.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
He's probably gotten away with it for so long that
he was he thought, well, it's not that. I mean,
it's like what they were together for eight years, or
like they break out ten years before they got married.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Well, so I guess my point is this, I don't
I don't buy the idea that all of a sudden
she's clicking things and it's like that's it. And also
because he that's her being enraged at him. I think
something happened where he like she was like, She's like,
I'm gonna what the fuck is this? I'm going to
expose you get the fuck out of my house. You're

(54:14):
not He has no money, he hasn't had a job
in three years. She's like, but that's like, so you're
saying that the marriage was like eroding anyway, and then
this was her the like left final straw. No.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
I think her finding emails that he is literally planning
for that week a meetup with a gay escort. The
emails are in a conversation of not someone who is
new at this right. So she finds those emails and
realizes and comes downstairs and confronts him, what the fuck

(54:45):
is this? This is like, this is not who I married.
I'm losing my fucking mind. You know, has the emails
in her hand goes to walk upstairs. He fucking panics.
His whole life is about to be expressed.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Sorry, So do we know for a fact those emails
were printed up Yeah, that's that's that's evidence that they had,
not that they the lawyers printed them, but Michael Peterson
printed the email.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
According to forensic files. Yes, they were printed in his
in the drawer in his office.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Okay, well, just I guess my point is that's all
very That just seems like if he had a secret
gay life, that would be something. I just didn't see
that relationship and the and the way I guess it
was presented. I was thinking more of she did something,
said something to him that was more of like her

(55:33):
attacking him.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Why wouldn't it be.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
I'm telling I'm just telling you that it seems really
it's convenient because it's the one night she uses the computer,
the one time, and then she finds everything like he's
not hiding it at all.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
A and then B the lawyers use that in the courtroom.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
As this huge thing of like, oh my god, he's
not who anybody. And it was to me that was
one of those moments in the document that was so
amazing because then you watched all of those people in
Durham be like this is disgusting, this is horrifying, Oh
my god, this is insane where it's like, actually, there's
tons of people that do it all the time.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
But I think, which is why I loved.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
That fucking sex worker, because he got up there and
just like, yeah, this is what it happens a lot.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
It's not a big deal. What I don't think. I
don't think that the people in Durham and in the
in the documentary, Michael Peterson's talks a lot of shit
about closed mindedness here in North Carolina, blah blah blah.
But I don't think they were upset with him being
bisexual or having homosexual relationships. I think that they were
pointing out what a liar Michael Peterson was, and Michael
Peterson was saying that Kathleen knew about his infidelities with men,

(56:39):
was open to him being bisexual and experiencing that outside
of his relationship with her. But I think the argument
was he's he's a known liar, he's light about he
lied about getting the purple heart in Vietnam. He lied
that his injury, he had gotten some injuries in a
car accident in Japan years before, and said that he
had gotten them in Vietnam. His ex wife and he
divorced because he was having affairs with men and women.

(57:02):
So they were showing him as a known liar and
saying that she knew about the gay relationships takes away
the motive that he would have killed her because she
found out about it that night and he flipped the
fuck out.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Well, I mean, look, it's not like I'm saying that
isn't true or I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying
to me, that seems like it pulls through the thing
because in the documentary they do in the courtroom, people
act like, holy fuck, it's on camera. It's like one
of the biggest parts of that documentary.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
And so no, that's just my point of People in
Durham were freaked out about it. People in Durham were
it did become the way that that woman free to Brown,
the prosecutor starts talking about him and this, and she's
so evil about it. It's like she's like the wicked
witch of the West. So that to me, I felt
like that was a card that they played to cast

(57:53):
him in this light. In the courtroom to make him
look bad, and then when you watch the documentary, are like, well,
those people are bad and that makes him good, and
so you start playing against you know what I mean,
It's like, yeah, they're bad and he's good.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
But maybe but I think maybe the card was he's
I think they were surprised to hear that a married, straight,
married man was having these illicit relationships with men. I
don't think it was that he's having relationships with men.
This man's having relationship with men. I think it was definitely.
I mean, I'm not so fucking stupid that I think that,

(58:28):
you know, people don't get surprised when they find out
someone's gay, obviously, But I think part of it was
did I mean, it's such a it's such a great
narrative of she found out this thing about him that
he you know, even if she knew he looked at
gay porn, found out that he is, uh, he's planning

(58:49):
on meeting up with and paying for sex from a
gay escort. She found out that night. That's the night
she died. Like the fact that she was on the
computer that night, even though she's never on the computer,
and that's.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
The show lipped but We don't know for a fact,
that's the night she found out. We just know that
he had printed up emails and that he erased that
like that. The cops found out he was erasing stuff
off his computer, and then they went in and were like,
your computer's filled with gay porn and you were having
these affairs.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
But she went on. But she went on the computer
for the first time in a long time that night
that she died. Yes, I get that that's a crazy coincidence.
It's not though, I mean, I just don't think it's
not a crazy coincidence. It's not a coincidence. It's like,
that's the motive that she found out, that he was
paying for sex from a gay guy. But I get it.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
My thing is, I think it's too much of a
coincidence to say all of those things happened because she
was like, oh, I got to check my email here.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
I in my mind, that's that's a thing that.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Got pulled through so that it would be like, you know, salacious,
so it would be against him. And then you know,
and then when the documentary comes and everyone in like
twenty fifteen or whenever it was, looks at that, they're like, well, fuck,
those southern bigots. Yeah, and then and that makes him
look good somehow. But I guess my point was, I

(01:00:11):
think something else happened. Uh that would like when he
talks and he is so remote and calm, and oh,
he's just so affable and so intelligent, and so I
see that thing where it's like, but the one thing
that would turn him, and I don't I'm not saying
I know what it is. I'm just saying it's a

(01:00:32):
thing that makes him snap, go into a rage and
then beat her till the whole fucking stairwell is bloody.
So like, it's not it's not like hey, you and
you you did this and you did that, or her
like being shrillen up.

Speaker 7 (01:00:46):
And he's never been abusive before, you know he has been,
oh he has he yes, But the well then we
get into right, then we get into the family friend
the woman in Germany.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Okay, yes, So then other weird bombshell that came out
during the it was during the staircase being filmed.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Well, it's during the case, but I mean it's because
her Kathleen's uh is it Kathleen's sister or his first
wife's sister calls and says, you do realize, right, Oh no, sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
It's the girl's mother's sister.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
So it's the girl's aunts that Michael Peterson is there
at his wards, and the aunt calls and says, you
do realize their mother was like died at the bottom
of a staircase after he walked them home.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
He was her last person a c herli.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Yeah, he walked the mother and girls home after they
ate dinner at Peterson's house, and then a neighbor saw
him running out of the house later on, and she
was found at the bottom of the stairs with seven
lacerations on her head in the back of her head,
exactly the same fucking death twenty years before.

Speaker 8 (01:01:58):
That's insanity it here, let's see, okay, So yeah, so
so two decades before Michael Peterson found Kathleen at the
bottom of her stairs, he had been friends with another
woman named.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Elizabeth Ratliffe, and they had all lived in Germany. Michael
Peterson was married to his first wife at the time,
had his two sons. Elizabeth apparently died after a fall
down a staircase, and Michael had been the last persons.
You're alive, they ruled authorities ruled rat lift steps to
be of natural causes, concluding that a cerebral hemorrhage caused
her to fall and strike her head, which makes absolutely

(01:02:37):
no sense.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
Right, So they're saying something basically, she was at the
top of the stairs, went oh my god, my head
and fell down the stairs, got seven lacerations.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
And it's almost the same thing that one time you
want you get what happened, you get why they concluded that,
you know what I mean, it's almost sure, like, yeah, okay,
that could have happened, fell.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
Down the stairs, right, not looking at she had had
headaches before, like supposedly it had headaches before weeks before
that happened.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
So she also looks so fucking identical. Elizabeth Bradcliffe and
Kathleen look like they could be fucking sisters. There's the
most insane way.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Yes, there's a part where there's side by sides of
Elizabeth in the like seventies probably and Kathleen, and you
could completely go, oh, that's her in the seventies and
that's her now. Yeah, they look so similar totally.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
It's insane. And it's this thing of like, you know,
did he kill the first woman, did he kill Elizabeth,
or did Elizabeth just die that way. And so when
he killed Kathleen twenty years later, he set up her
body to look the way Elizabeth, you know, like maybe
he didn't kill Elizabeth the first one, maybe she actually

(01:03:52):
died that way, and he in this moment of like, well,
I need to set the body to look like it
was an accident, kind of recreated the same scene. But
that would mean he was at the scene right right,
because he prob no, he found her body, he came,
He came. When the nanny found Elizabeth Ratcliff's body, she

(01:04:13):
went and got Michael Peterson. Oh so he saw it. Yeah, okay,
but I also don't believe that. I think he can now.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
Well, also because it doesn't explain the seven lacerations. It
doesn't explain it's like in the what was that fucking
uh uh Jessica Beale Show, Oh yeah, the Sinner, remember
when she stabs them the exact same way.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Yeah, It's that's what it reminds me of.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Where it's like seven seven head lacerations, where it's like
if it's a blowpoke or if it's whatever the thing is,
it's like someone goes fuck you, walks away from him,
goes upstairs, or however, it happens.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
And he just walks up and goes no, no, no,
no no, and that's his muscle memory. That's what he
does to stop someone.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
And it's rageholic explosion where it's like this crazy attack
and it happens the same way, and then I mean,
who knows, this is all obviously bullshit theory, but but
we're right. But but to me, he does really seem
like one of those people that's like he's going to
keep it so chill no matter what, because he does
it all the way.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
Through the It's so cral.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
Every teen a camera in the staircase is like one
of the most infuriating things to me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
This is why part of the reason why I didn't
I couldn't watch more than five episodes is I was
just like, I do not want to see this man
again and hear him speak like it was one of
those things where Vince had to be like, Okay, Georgia,
we need to go to bed, because I was screaming
at him about not screaming. But I was like, oh,
you know, just yelling at him because he's such a
fucking narcissistic and he does.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
He's a little bit of a like mister Magoo, where
he's like, oh, really right, he's making jokes.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
He's like his.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
Brother's there and they're all just kind of oh whoa
very interesting and there's no shame. There's doesn't seem to
be any real affect, so he's not like you don't
see him. The only time he ever seems like worried
or of real human reactions is when they're talking about
how much jail time is.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
Right. Other than that, it's like, oh, Kathleen, she does
really something. It also doesn't he answers things in a
way incorrectly, like so I printed out this thing from
the Malchi crime notes, where so okay, so at the
at the end of that, I whisper her name bullshit.

(01:06:24):
When he says I would never have done anything to
hurt her, he the way he says that it's an
unreal so she's this chick Ursula. Franco says it's an
unreliable denial, saying I would have never done anything to
hurt her, And then you can add in unless blah
blah blah, unless she sat on the stairs, I've done

(01:06:44):
something wrong. I would have never done anything to hurt her.
To be in with right, and then he also says
hurt instead of kill to minimize and distance himself from
what happened, to deal with the negative emotions, and she
says it's a common strategy used by guilty people to
deal with feelings of good guilt. And then he says,
I am innocent of these charges. That doesn't mean he

(01:07:05):
didn't kill her. He's innocent of the charges he's being
brought up on, right, right, So it's another not reliable denial.
To affirm to be innocent is different from saying I
didn't kill, which is expected. When people say they're innocent,
they're just denying the conclusion that they are guilty. And
just when they say and when they say I didn't

(01:07:26):
do it, they are denying the action. So he's saying
he's guilty, he's not guilty of the charges, leaving out
what the charges are, again, not telling you I'm innocent
of killing my wife.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
And it's that it's the super egomaniacal thing of I
am innocent. Yes, is about me and I'm being persecuted.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
And it's so sad for me. I didn't kill my wife.
I would never I would never hurt Kathleen. Yes, nothing
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
I will I would never hurt Kathleen conceptually, right, I
mean not really.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Yeah, but yeah, it's so fucked up. Oh, and then
he says in the Ohen else says, I'm truly innocent
of these charges. Just of course, when you say truly,
it's like, why are you making a why are you
making a like a qualifier blah blah blah as opposed
to regular innocence. Right, yea truly. But then another quote
he says is when I think of Kathleen, and he says,

(01:08:19):
it's in the staircase. When I think of Kathleen, I remember, unfortunately.
What I remember, unfortunately is her dying in my arms.
That's true, she died in my arms. Why do you
have to say that killing He's like goosing the sympathy. Yeah,
And it's also like, we think she died hours before that.
So him saying it's true she died in my arms
because the first time he called nine one when he

(01:08:40):
said she was still alive. In the second time he
said she wasn't. But based on the neurons, which you
need to talk about, the red blood neurons in her brain,
she died hours before. Then he says, uh. Then he says.
He says something about how the last time that was
He says, when she was walking to go back into
the house after they have been sitting outside, that was

(01:09:00):
the last time he saw her alive. And then he
goes except for when I found her, Like he has
to be like, oh fuck, I'm My story is that
I found her alive at the bottom of the stairs.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
Yeah, which she didn't. He forgot, right, he forgot that
was the story, right. Well, the one thing I was
going to say is they talk about it really bugs me,
Like when I was watching the documentary the prosecutorial team
which he hired before there were.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
Charges against him and one another narcissistic creep. Yes that lawyer. Yeah,
what's his name? Uh, I remember Rudolph but sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
But basically he tries to say, there is no way
that somebody could beat somebody else with a blowpoke in
that staircase, like or with any instrument that would have
given her those seven deep lacerations in the back of
her head at the bottom of that staircase. There's not
enough room that you couldn't pull that thing up over

(01:10:01):
your head over and over and beat some with that,
which is a bullshit because you don't know that's not
the blowpook itself, so that it's like predicating everything on
this one concept, which is like, we don't.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
Know if that's it, don't know if it's a blowbook,
but that's the murder weapon, is what I'm saying. Yeah,
and also or.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Could he could just be holding it right up to
the hills and not it's not like he's got it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
At the very end. Or I read in another thing
that maybe he just hit her head against the stairs. Sure,
and that's that's and that would take a small hit
to open the scalp up and not cause brain or
skull fractures. Which is one of the points that people
made is if he had beaten her, there'd be skull fractures,
and there wasn't. So if it was an up close hit,

(01:10:46):
there wouldn't be skull fractures. Maybe because she died by
bleeding out, she didn't die from a skull.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
Fracture, right, which normally I think most doctors would say,
if you fell down the stairs, hit your head a
bunch of times, you still wouldn't bleed out, right, I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Bleed out that quickly, and you have a concussion.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
But The other thing is that then later on they try,
they attempt to get a retrial because the neighbor finds
a tire iron, and then they say they they withheld
this evidence, that the prosecution withheld this evidence, and so
the defense was like, we need a new trial because
they withheld the possibility there could be a prowler that

(01:11:23):
had a tire iron. So all of a sudden, the
same people are arguing the exact same.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
The opposite of what they were saying, which is like,
oh so a prowler could.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
Beat her with a tire iron, but he couldn't beat
her with a blowpoke, Right, that makes sense?

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
It doesn't. It's so crazy. Also that the blowpoke was missing,
and later in the documentary one that the other son
finds the blowpoke in the garage, which is weird. Well,
and the police, who we all know, like, you know,
it's we're very biased in this.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
But the police in the American justice are like, we
went all over that garage, the blowpoke was not in the.

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
Garage, and they find the blowpoke without the end the tip.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
Yeah, I mean, and they all they did was they
didn't find it leave it where it was called The
copsybody go take pictures.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
They presented it in court to say we found this yeah,
and it was on video right like while they were
recording the documentary. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
Yeah, So then we're like, here it is, we found it.
Here it is everybody. And then they're just like, well, yeah,
you could have any you can't put that there. And
then the camera was recording, right, Oh my god, this
is so perfect. Yeah, like that doesn't mean anything, but
they were introducing they were doing that tricky shit of
introducing ideas that are like, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
Yeah. Also, so there's all these injuries to her head
and neck, contusions all over her arms, in the back
of her arms, and she has zero injuries to her
knees and legs, which you think, falling down the stairs
you'd absolutely hit your fucking legs. So then the other thing, God,
can we talk about doctor Henry Lee. Oh oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
Oh him spitting that ketchup. Oh my god, it's so
And also, you know they hired him really early. They
hired him, they made sure he was available. Like basically,
these lawyers knew this thing was going to blow up.
He was like semi famous authors, so they knew.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
They just they got there. All their heavy hitters like
they knew this could be a thing. Yeah, and they could.
They couldn't make it a big thing.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
That they're going to get if he's the guy that
got up you know that was it a football player
basically exonerated for murder. Then he then they also were like, well,
we'll get doctor Henry Lee, he's from an OJ trial,
and we'll get these people and like just line everybody
up to what looks like here's here's what it looks
like a team of people who get people off.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
They wouldn't pay this amount of money if they didn't
think he wasn't you know what I mean? Yeah, okay,
so here, okay, so rare red neurons. Okay, Basically there
were these neurons and Kathleen's brain that were consistent with
the brain having a long period like a couple hours

(01:14:04):
lack of oxygen before dying. So essentially it shows that
these injuries to her head happened hours before he called
nine to one one and she died. And to me,
that's uh yeah, no, no, no, this means she was
unconscious a while before she actually died, right, So that
to me, that's all you that's all you really.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
Need, Like because it's even longer than his claim forty
five minutes of like I was out drinks.

Speaker 1 (01:14:28):
Cool and when I found her and he's on nine
one one, he's like, she's alive. So that would have
been forty five minutes. Yeah, and that's not consistent with
you can't neurons don't lie, right, that's that's due that's
deep science.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Also, the uh thyroid cartilage that was that was damage.
I can't remember neck.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
Yeah, how they described that was it like, uh, you see,
you can't break cartilage, right, so it's like it was,
but it was hemorrhaging.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
And so basically that means when your thyroid cartilage is damaged,
that's strangulation.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
Because a fracture of the thighroid neck cartilage.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
Oh okay, so you can fracture it. So but it's
it's pressure on the neck. It's indicative of being strangled.
But it also is hemorrhaged. So she was being strangled.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
She was alive.

Speaker 2 (01:15:21):
This isn't a thing where she fell down the stairs
broke her neck and that's why that was damaged. She
she was strangled while alive. Yeah, almost like someone was
holding her down.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Yeah, and also had their foot on the back of
her leg to keep her in place, and was straddling
her at the same time, and that's how he got
blood batters on the inside of his shorts.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Yep, and just hit her on the back of the
head as she was sitting on the stairs, flipped her
over so that she looked like she had.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
Tried to clean up a little bit. She came back,
she came back to consciousness, consciousness, conscious, and he had
to hit her again, covered up those blood spatters. Called
nine woman, I mean, or a prowler came in and
hit her with an owl. That's they add those together.

(01:16:15):
If we're gonna fucking do this. The owl theory.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
The idea of the owl theory is from a neighbor,
like a nosy neighbor who has nothing to do with
the case, but he's like, I know what this is
and it can't be him, and this.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
Is really what it is. When you for me, people
believe it, people believe we're going to get to that,
and I get the thing where people.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
I was looking up owl injuries today because I was like,
what do those look like compared to what these both
of these cases of both of these.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
Women with seven lacerations on the back of their head.
What do they look like?

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
Not the same because owl talons look like puncture wounds, right,
and these and the lacerations are long drag marquee like
cut deep cut.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
They'll do the impatis what do they put it when
they put the talent over the wound to show you
what it looks like. But actually, owl talents, it's not
three claws in the front and one in the back.
It's they have three and it's you know, listen, yes,
I'm not a fucking.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
It's mostly just those three that go like that, right,
they're kind of like they take up all that space,
and the one on the back step here and fun
and cool and I like.

Speaker 1 (01:17:16):
Reading about it, but it's not true.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
I don't think it's true because was there are you
then saying you would have to then say that that
what's the woman in Germany's name Liz Elizabeth, Yeah, Ratcliffe Ratcliffe, Ratliff, Ratliffe,
that she was also attacked by Now, like it doesn't
make sense because it's the exact same death.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
He's the common denominator, Like maybe the fucking owl found
the gay porn?

Speaker 2 (01:17:44):
Could you imagine that owls? Like I never use this computer. Yeah,
but tonight, that's how fucking ridiculous it is. I mean,
look also with that theory, he it was long and
ago enough that he could have been keeping all of
his porn in a little file that said pornunderneath it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
And then she was like, you know what, I'm that's true.
What kind of women does he like? You know, maybe
he was maybe she was fine with him being into
gay porn. Like that's my thing about it. It's like
maybe he she did know he was bisexual and was
okay with it, you know, like it's fine, nothing's wrong
with that. But I think when you get over into
fucking paying for sex territory, yes, having affairs is a

(01:18:24):
different thing. Having an affair with a male escort in
your home while you're at work, Yeah, you know. That's
and Kathleen had divorced her fucking first husband because he
was having an affair, so I did not okay or
you know, had cheated on her. So she's not okay
with affairs based on the fact on her history. Fuck no, well,

(01:18:47):
no one's okay with affairs, even mean affairs. I mean,
like you know, open marriages, and he did right in
one of the emails to this dude he was trying
to hire. I'm a married man to a wonderful woman
and she knows or and you know something like that.
So it's like it's just such a weird mindset.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
It's like he does whatever he wants and rationalizes it probably.
I think you know what would freak me out even
more is that the way that Kathleen and Michael met
was because when they when after Michael got divorced from
his first wife and I think her name is Patty,
and they moved out, she took the sons and Michael

(01:19:30):
stayed with the two girls. The two girls started playing
with Caitlin in the neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
And that's how.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
Kathleen and Michael met in the first place, is because
all the girls were Yeah, And I don't know why
that freaks me out so much, but it's like it's
not like they they came together in this weird way that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:49):
Well, so there's like family photos of them that make
me uncomfortable, Like, but they're all standing together as like
this brady a bunch family. Yes, I don't know how
old were the the adopted girls when Michael and Kathleen
got married, they were older, Yeah, because they had they.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
I think those girls met each other when they were
like preteens maybe, and then that they were together for
like eight years.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
So the fact that they called Kathleen mom makes me
a little uncomfortable. I just the whole Michael just seemed
like a cult leader to me. And these these two
adopted girls who lost first they lost their biological father,
then their mother died in these insane circumstances. They go
to and live with this man family friend and his wife.

(01:20:38):
They divorce. The two girls are with this guy, they
find this great woman and they're like, oh, like it's
almost this Like, did Michael tell the adopted daughters to
call Kathleen mom in a manipulative way because it would
make her want to stick around, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
Or is it just that they wanted normalcy right? And
they just were like, Okay, great, she's landed. We're doing
this like we're building our own family. Yeah, and we're
gonna make this work.

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
Well, the son's called her mom too, didn't they? Yes?
But no, they couldn't have they had their own mom,
like a living mom. They did, they did, but that
whole dynamic, there's something off about it to me.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
Well, because in this I keep talking about like it's
my pride and joy in this American Justice. There is
a part where they are all and I wonder if
the producers of that show manipulated them. But they're all
sitting around looking at like Christmas pictures and one of
the daughters says, oh, yeah, this is she loved her stairs.
She always had to put her Christmas decorations. And basically

(01:21:42):
she's talking about the front like the main staircase, which
is a.

Speaker 1 (01:21:45):
Photo of them together in her wedding dress on the stairs. Yeah,
so creepy. And but basically it's just her. It's them talking.

Speaker 2 (01:21:52):
About it like oh, she loved her stairs, and like
wave and it's and but she goes it's so cute,
and it's just like them all trying to act like
we have the best, we have the most perfect life.

Speaker 1 (01:22:04):
We had the most perfect life. They were so in love.
It's almost like if I guess what I guess in
the staircase, the daughters, the adopted daughters, feel like they're
being paraded to to show to give Michael Peters and
sympathy that he has a family who supports him. The
way they're shown emotionally so much and talked about as

(01:22:26):
and they speak on cameras so like, you know emotionally
that their dad could never do this. It almost seems
like they're being used by him and his side in
a way to show to have empathy because he has
fucking none.

Speaker 2 (01:22:41):
Well, I mean they it seems like it's absolutely their choice.
So it's what they want to do. And I feel
like they understand the importance of if someone is accused
of this terrible crime, especially if they're innocent, which.

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
They believe he is or at least, but there's no
room for them to even grapple with that idea. Otherwise
I don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:23:02):
You could in that scenario because it would be like
this is like now it's us against them, right, It's not.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
There's no room for great I need for my lad
what happened. I need my dad to not have done this.
There's that could you imagine?

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
Because then if he did that, then he also it
opens the doors to their own money.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
They fucking end up okaying their own mother, their biological mother,
Elizabeth at Ratliffe, being fucking exhumed, yes, because they and
they think it's going to prove him innocent, right, and
instead of instead her cause of death gets changed to homicide.

Speaker 2 (01:23:35):
Yes, because they see those fucking lacerations and it's all
mirror image.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
But instead everyone is against Michael Peterson, and that's the
that's there, that's his narrative is instead they're against him, right,
and they're making this stuff up, which maybe it's true
because this fucking blood analyst was making shit up.

Speaker 2 (01:23:56):
I mean, that's the nothing is so that nothing is
simple and nothing is ever all one way.

Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
Of these are the good guys and these are the bad.
Total I have room for the fact that I could
be totally fucking wrong about all of this and he
might be innocent. I am not. I will never be like,
not never, but there's room for that, Yes, there is.
This is just how this seems based on the information
that I've been able to find and the vibes, and because.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
It's that vibe, that's the thing that drives me the craziest.
Is I just want to go, you don't think you're
convincing the right of all people because I don't buy
your dumb.

Speaker 1 (01:24:32):
Pipe, but that pipe are not fooling me.

Speaker 2 (01:24:34):
And also it's just the I'm like, I'm a connoisseur
of good acting and this is not too good acting
at all?

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
And how are you acting to begin with? Yes, why
can't bad? It's like you can still tell acting whether
it's good or bad.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
Why are you bothering the thing that we both named,
the thing that I played a recording of is it's
terrible acting. It is inappropriate. It's the There is absolutely
nothing genuine about it. Whatsoever. It is is rehearsed. It's
like bad community theater.

Speaker 1 (01:25:05):
It's the first time of him speaking to the media too,
and he thinks that's what's going to make them get
on his side because he doesn't understand basic human emotions
such as if you're crying and you are freaking out
about what's going on, people are on your side because
they're like, that's a real emotion.

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
That's how he's really And now I can hear the
people that would argue of like nobody grieves the same
or he was in a position that nobody could anticipate
or imagine.

Speaker 1 (01:25:37):
Corneass fucking statement. Exactly right, he's not.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
This isn't like they trapped him on the street and
forced him to give a statement. This was him breaking
his silence to the press and giving an official.

Speaker 1 (01:25:49):
Statement about these are the words he thought would work,
So tuck you.

Speaker 2 (01:25:53):
Yes, it's so crazy, And now I told you that
the way I realized he was guilty.

Speaker 1 (01:26:02):
Tell me I had been watching it was the last
season of Breaking Bad. I'm pretty sure it was.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
Last season, and it was right the end where everything's
going crazy and Walt keeps having to leave, and then
he comes back to the family and you know, his
wife's like, what the fuck did and he was always.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
Lying, And there was a part where he is trying
to you know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:25):
The thing where he would always make breakfast, so he
was trying to make breakfast and look, I'm making breakfast
pancakes everybody, and he is as I think, either his
son or his wife are trying to talk to him,
and he's opening these doors and kind of going what no, yes,
of course, and like keeps fucking with the cupboards and
doing stuff while answering questions and like trying to pretend
to think, but then doing stuff with the cupboards. There

(01:26:47):
is an almost exact scene in the staircase where Michael
Peterson is in the kitchen and they're like asking him
some really kind of crucial, you know things, and he
is doing Walt exactly from Breaking Bad, where it's like
it was such a mirror thing where I was like, whoa,
he's totally lying.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
It was Jonathan's exact same thing. Cranston watched that. I wonder,
Brian Kranston, that's what I meant. Brian Cranston watched that.
I'm like Jonathan Overholt. Listen, there's a Jonathan Cranston out there.
I bet you anything.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
You went to high school with him, you loved him.
Right now, you want to know if I watched Breaking Back.

Speaker 1 (01:27:24):
I got meth from him. That's fucking crazy, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:27:29):
I just got this weird chill where I was like, oh,
Brian Cranston made that acting choice because that's what it
looks like when you.

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
Lie and when you're trying to make it seem casual
and to give yourself time to answer yea, because you
look like you're focused on something else yep, and you're not.
I'm so distracted by pancakes. I'm in the middle of us.
What's that. Yes, it's like the weirdest ah. And for me,
I was like, that's it. It's over.

Speaker 2 (01:27:57):
If I was on the jury, I'd be like, full on,
full on death penalty. Well, at the end of My
American Justice.

Speaker 1 (01:28:05):
Your favorite, my favorite American does favorite hour of TV
show ever.

Speaker 2 (01:28:11):
Thank you, Bo Curtis for your service to us as
true crime listeners and watchers.

Speaker 1 (01:28:17):
You don't know how much you may do us. He
Bill Curtis, Do you think he does? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:28:25):
Now he know, Yeah, I don't know. I don't think
he could possibly understand how much we love him.

Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
As a remember in the very beginning, the very first
live show we did was that show.

Speaker 1 (01:28:38):
In Chicago that was for the Podcast Festival. They knew
Bill Curtis.

Speaker 2 (01:28:42):
Somebody said that they might be able to get us
a Bill Curtis walk on, and we were like, oh
my god.

Speaker 1 (01:28:49):
It was like we were so excited for so long.
But Bill Curtis, our lord and savior. He was he
was busy.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
Anyhow, at the end of This American Justice, my television
show that I produce, there's a jail house interview with
Michael Peterson, and in it he says, I'm in here,
I'm as free as I would be out there. And
to me, that's that thing of like the truly psychotic

(01:29:15):
where he's basically saying, you haven't gotten me, like you
can do anything you want, but you haven't gotten me.

Speaker 1 (01:29:22):
It's also like this the system is so messed up
outside of here, like the government in your life and stuff,
it's the same as in here. One really instead of
being like I'm in here because I killed my wife, right.

Speaker 2 (01:29:32):
Or I'm in here because of a huge miscarriage of justice,
please do something, there's a camera like, he's okay with it.
I'm innocent, I'm innocent, I.

Speaker 1 (01:29:41):
Didn't kill her. None of that's happening.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
He's like, look what your life He basically is trying
to say some bullshit theory of like you know, whether
your life is heaving or hell, it's all in your mind,
and he's like at peace with it. He's yes, Basically,
he goes, I'm not saying I like jail obviously, but like,
but it's this thing where to me, it's what it

(01:30:04):
is about Michael Peterson, which is to me, what's fascinating
about killers and psychopaths and all those people.

Speaker 1 (01:30:11):
Where they have they have to do it, they have
to win. They can't not say that thing.

Speaker 2 (01:30:17):
So even if it's going to make them look even guiltier,
that's his emma that he has to tell you he
didn't get me. Yes, I'm wearing this jail outfit. Yes
I'm in here, but but no I'm actually free, right,
so you know, or.

Speaker 1 (01:30:31):
Almost this like he thinks of himself as this beautiful
miss miscarriage of justice. Yeah, and this like he's a martyr.
He's a martyr. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, dude,
this isn't that your wife is dead? Right, there's no
talk of her.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
Yeah I know, I know, but that American Justice was
made in like two thousand and four or five, so
they had no idea that this story continues is for
quite some time after.

Speaker 1 (01:31:02):
Well, that's what's funny about this this a novel idea
episode of Forensic Files, which you can watch on YouTube,
is that I think that they get so of course
it's before we find out all of these issues around it,
and our friend Dirty Dwayne is in it, like being
interviewed as the guy who solved the case. Yes, and

(01:31:23):
so that's problematic, but I think, really if you ignore that,
I think that that episode gets it correct. The whole
thing is correct. It's just the shit that happens afterwards
is problematic. So it's so funny that this like dated
Forensic Files without the uh you know, fucking addendums and shit. Yeah,

(01:31:43):
I think it's correct. I do too. I mean, but
it doesn't really well to show you exactly why he's guilty,
and then so much shit comes out later. That whole
thing was like what is real? Nothing?

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
I mean, blood spatter evidence experts are fraudulent to the
core where it's not even a real thing.

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
Yeah, you can't even you can't even rely on them.
Who can you rely on?

Speaker 2 (01:32:10):
Whoever the other person is? That's made up there specialty
of like no, no, no, I did this in my basement.

Speaker 1 (01:32:14):
Don't worry. I tested out on myself. We had a
great time. Here's the video. We laughed, we loved. Well. Shit,
that's fucking Michael. The Murder of Kathleen Peterson by Michael Peterson.

Speaker 2 (01:32:29):
And in Steven's timeline that I was reading off of,
he said that those French documentarians have another as yet
to be released as of December twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (01:32:39):
But they have a third.

Speaker 4 (01:32:41):
Yeah, they're working on a third documentary because he was
released this year.

Speaker 1 (01:32:46):
Yeah, he got so. He did an Alfred plea, which
we know from the West Memphis. Three basically says that
you know that the state has enough to convict you.
But so you're you're agreeing that they have enough to
convict you, but you didn't. You're still saying you're not guilty. Yeah,
you're not pleading guilty. Right, Yeah, So he's out now.

(01:33:07):
Yeah he had a time served situation, right, which one
don't need to get into. Oh right bye, no, no, no, no,
I just mean like he served eighty six months and
so now and it's concurrent with them.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
Yeah, all of the the way he gets out and
gets bonds and in between shit and all that.

Speaker 1 (01:33:29):
Him going in and out of.

Speaker 2 (01:33:30):
Jail is like imagine if that was a black man, Oh,
you would have never seen that person again. Yeah, that
the way this keyps just getting entertained, because this does
happen to other people when it's like oh yeah this
all of this has to get thrown out, and they
don't teately throw up a bond and like hey let's
get this person out of h.

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
Hey this blood spatter. Analyis has lied in the thirty
four cases. I bet he's lied in these other ones
as well. No, it doesn't turn around like that, It
doesn't at all. I wonder what Christmas is like with
fucking Michael Peterson. What do you think this Christmas is
going to be like for everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:34:07):
Well, so with the last so the second addendum French
documentary The Staircase two Electric Bugloo, I have to say
it every time, uh, In that one one of the daughters,
I kind of like that we're not naming their names
because I feel like they are they let them live
their lives and also just they're they're really kind of

(01:34:30):
the subject of this documentary.

Speaker 1 (01:34:31):
It's like it's so much pain for them. It's been
so horrible for them. Oh the whole way. I almost
want to go like, if you need to fight and
believe that, please do that, because yes, because it just
sucks that their other sister is on the other side.
You know that they're fighting.

Speaker 2 (01:34:51):
The part two, one of the sisters no longer is
speaking out for Michael Peterson.

Speaker 1 (01:34:57):
Okay, uh, Well, the the daughter Caitlyn, Kathleen's actual biological daughter,
said that when she saw the autopsy, there's like this
beautiful quote by her that's somewhere here says, the only
thing I have to say is that about the trial

(01:35:17):
and all the subsequent fallout is that if there was
any closure to possibly come from all of this, it
came after sitting through the entire trial and listening day
after day to all the evidence on both sides, and
after the closing arguments, when all was said and done,
I felt confident that I knew what happened. I knew
what happened to my mom. Well, there's no true closure
that can ever come from an event like this for

(01:35:38):
a lossess deep. I was ready to walk away and
start moving forward with my life. And that's Caitlyn Note
thinking that Michael Peterson killed her mother, right, Yeah, so
sad and not feeling caught up that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:53):
Yeah, her stepfather was also being persecuted, right, She just
was kind of like, I can't.

Speaker 1 (01:35:59):
I need to walk away. Yeah, it's just awful, it is.
It's intense. I'm glad we did it together. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:36:11):
Okay, we're back. Yeah, Karen, do you want to read
us the updates?

Speaker 1 (01:36:15):
I will do the updates for this part of the story.

Speaker 3 (01:36:17):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
So Michael Peterson sold the house that Kathleen died in.
He still lives in Durham. He lived with his ex wife,
Patricia for two years. She unfortunately died of a heart attack.
He now lives in a ground floor apartment.

Speaker 3 (01:36:31):
What's that information about.

Speaker 2 (01:36:33):
Well, because it's a ground floor apartment with no stairs,
and it's an important accommodation. According to his defense attorney
David Rudolph, who we have spoken to on this show
and he talked about that is at his recent crime
con experience, that that was a stipulation of where Michael.

Speaker 1 (01:36:49):
Peterson has to live.

Speaker 3 (01:36:50):
That's so fucked up.

Speaker 1 (01:36:51):
It's really weird.

Speaker 2 (01:36:52):
But it's also that thing where I mean, we've talked
about it. But the idea that in this story, when
it comes to light that this an accident happened in
Germany where he was there and another woman died by
falling down the stairs.

Speaker 3 (01:37:04):
That doesn't happen once in someone's life, let alone twice.

Speaker 2 (01:37:08):
I feel like the judgmental part of me is just like,
we're done here, yeah, and it's kind of a satisfying thing.

Speaker 5 (01:37:14):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:37:14):
That's the logical part of you, not the judgmental part
of it, right it is. What I don't understand is
how you haven't watched the fucking twenty twenty two HBO
Max mini series.

Speaker 3 (01:37:24):
I didn't do the scripto Dairscase. I know it's really good.

Speaker 1 (01:37:27):
It's Tony Colette and you knew this are calling calling
for they're both so incredible. Yeah, there is a really
upsetting sex scene in it that I won't tell you.

Speaker 3 (01:37:37):
Well, I'm sold you have to watch it.

Speaker 1 (01:37:39):
It's like, it's like you should have said that are weird.
It's like a weird thing that you're like, how did
they get these actors to do that? Because I would
have been like, I'm out actors love stuff like that.
It's like, i'll tell you after this, I won't say it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:53):
Oh okay, Well, now it's time to get into good
things of the week, a thing we used to do
on this show.

Speaker 3 (01:37:59):
We used to have good things to talk about, and
we used to force.

Speaker 1 (01:38:02):
Ourselves to really silver lining this thing. Should we say
we're happy about this week, go for it? Should we
should it be like something boring or should it be
like thanks everyone? Definitely boring? Tried to do in a

(01:38:24):
very flat, okay voice. Well, I was just thinking about
how different both of our lives were before we started
this podcast, or when we started this podcast, and when
we kind of came together at the Halloween party and
I lied about having watched The Staircase because it sounded right,
and just how grateful I am from this pod that

(01:38:45):
by this podcast and the listeners and the community, and
I mean it was kind of in a rough we
think we were both kind of in different reasons and
rough points of our lives and going through some of
our own shit. And this podcast has changed that completely
and made my life into the beautiful fucking thing that
I'm so happy for and grateful for. And you know,

(01:39:06):
if all you ever do is a hundred episodes, this
is then one of the highlights of my life for real,
like one it feels like a dream. It's so true.
It's been insane. I love you very much. I love
you too, Karen. And I love that you thought to
do this and made me come to your house to

(01:39:27):
do it. I love that you said okay.

Speaker 2 (01:39:30):
But it was one of those things where it was
just like, in starting to do it, it was just like,
oh yeah, this is like, even if it's just for us,
it's so much fun.

Speaker 1 (01:39:41):
That conversation we just had about the staircase, even when
we were arguing about certain things, was so much fun.
That's all I want to do. I know, it's the best.
It's so much fun.

Speaker 2 (01:39:48):
But also because and sometimes it's been I will say this,
I'm I totally agree and every I mean, that's part
of the fun for me has been this variance of
basically kind of standing in the center of an explosion
with you, yeah, and getting through it with you and
like truly.

Speaker 1 (01:40:09):
Growing with you. I feel like my God.

Speaker 2 (01:40:12):
But there have been times where, you know, when we
started out, we said whatever the fuck we wanted because
we were just in your house. And then you know,
of course, then we went through like a teenage phase
where we got super self conscious because people started going,
you're saying this word wrong, and you're doing that wrong,
and you have the wrong thoughts and you have the
wrong idea. We're like, you have to do this right, yes,
and then we got real worried about what if we

(01:40:33):
lose people or what if we you know, and there's
just all it's like the natural growth process. And now,
so that conversation we just had felt so much more
like one of the first episodes, because of course, in
my mind, I'm going, we can't say that that's libel,
that's whatever we're talking. We're putting words in someone's mouth.
But overall, that's the point of this podcast. And I

(01:40:56):
said this at the Kansas City show, I believe was
we're not trying to be forty eight hours. We're sitting
on the couch watching forty eight hours, talking about forty
to each other.

Speaker 1 (01:41:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:41:08):
And we've never wanted to be broad you know, professional
broadcasters or newscasters or anything. We just want to talk
about the thing that freaks us out so much, right
and fascinates.

Speaker 1 (01:41:19):
Us so much. And we're sitting in this room, this
loft pod loft, surrounded by aren't made by these incredible
people who we have somehow fucking touched in a way.
And well, because we have so much in common with Right,
And I'm just honored. I'm honored, and I'm amazed, and
thank you Steven too for being here. Yeah, it's just

(01:41:43):
I feel really lucky. It's weird. We are two of
the luckiest people. I can't believe for sure. Yeah, and
we're filled with ice cream cake, Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:41:53):
I mean, and for all you guys that have been
you know, one of my favorite favorite things is it's
sometimes when we meet people at shows and they say
I've been listening since the beginning, and then I'll go, oh,
you have since the first one, and they'll go, oh, well, no,
I mean like I came out in episode five.

Speaker 1 (01:42:09):
Yeah, and on that.

Speaker 2 (01:42:11):
On the last time we were out, someone said that,
and I go from the beginning and she goes, day one.

Speaker 1 (01:42:16):
I found you, remember that, Caid. I told us the story.

Speaker 2 (01:42:18):
She said, sorry, I don't remember your name, but she said,
I opened it. I was in a bad mood. I
opened up my you know iTunes podcast, saw the thing
and was like, that seems interesting and clicked on it.

Speaker 1 (01:42:29):
Yeah, and she was like, at first I hated your voices.
That's the other thing, because she said, at first I
thought you were both annoying or something. And then I
kept listening and I loved it, and I couldn't stop listening. Yeah,
it is cool. And we read all of the notes
and all of the messages on Twitter and all. I mean,
it's just it doesn't it doesn't make any sense. My
mind is fucking blown. We're both you guys have changed

(01:42:51):
our lives. Thank you so fucking much.

Speaker 2 (01:42:53):
We love it. We love it, We love you. One
hundred episodes so fun Thank you for being here with us. Yeah,
we're very grateful.

Speaker 1 (01:43:01):
Yeah, it's so funny, like one hundred episodes. One hundred episodes,
and we kind of thought that was it.

Speaker 3 (01:43:11):
We were peaking.

Speaker 1 (01:43:11):
I mean, I was ready to peek and be done
for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:43:15):
So true, I got my pod left. I wouldn't do
a nicer apartment. I mean, what else?

Speaker 1 (01:43:20):
What more could we want? Know what?

Speaker 3 (01:43:21):
I had air conditioning?

Speaker 1 (01:43:22):
Yeah, and I was out of foreclosure. That's right, and
that's all that mattered to me.

Speaker 3 (01:43:27):
We made it, we did, and then we got greedy.

Speaker 2 (01:43:29):
We made it, and then we got up out of
the hole and we said, hey, it's nice up here.
We should keep on striving for more.

Speaker 1 (01:43:36):
Yeah, and we deserve it. We're good at this. Uh okay,
here's I just have to bring back up.

Speaker 2 (01:43:43):
How hilarious it is that listener that told us they
were listening since the very first episode.

Speaker 1 (01:43:49):
They hated our voices at first.

Speaker 3 (01:43:50):
But then they got used to.

Speaker 2 (01:43:51):
It is the It's the ultimate example of what it's
like to have a podcast where someone's telling you they
love you, insulting you as much as they can.

Speaker 3 (01:44:01):
Well, they'll say, my mom hates you, guys, Yeah, I
love you.

Speaker 1 (01:44:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:44:05):
Hey, look my mom mates me too. Listen, look and listen.

Speaker 1 (01:44:11):
Okay, well, we can't name this episode the one hundredth episode.
We have to name it something more interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:44:16):
Yes, and thank god, there's so many choices. For example,
you saying ninety nine episodes worth of things when you're
talking about how much you've forgotten, which is so real
on this experience.

Speaker 3 (01:44:26):
And I wasn't naming in Perry montopause yet that's right.
Dessert for dinner, yes, needs to be.

Speaker 1 (01:44:32):
Yeah, that was my reward to you. Also, Judith from
HR which is when we had our.

Speaker 3 (01:44:37):
Headsets hot ams asap you.

Speaker 2 (01:44:40):
Got close yep us, Oh, this is it the staircase
two electric bogoloo.

Speaker 3 (01:44:45):
Talking about part two. We did that a lot had
to How about our friend dirty Dwayne.

Speaker 2 (01:44:49):
Yeah, that dirty so legendary blood splatter expert actually false. Yeah,
to be revealed later that there's no such thing dirty
Dwayne Man. All right, But then there's one more surprise.
Apparently that's right, because sweet if we get dessert for dinner, okay,
Molly's bringing it in.

Speaker 1 (01:45:09):
What'd you get out?

Speaker 3 (01:45:11):
What is the screen case?

Speaker 1 (01:45:12):
Oh? My god, your faces on it? Yes, okay, Mollie
just came into the studio with the cutest little cake
and it's got the photo from my old apartment, me
and Karen on the couch, got my legs up and
my month six here.

Speaker 3 (01:45:32):
Probably those feet. Blur out. I'm gonna blur out the feet.
You don't get free feet.

Speaker 1 (01:45:38):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:45:39):
Those are worth a lot of money on feet dot com. Wow,
that's beautiful, Mollie. Thank you so much, Thank you, thank
you Stephen for Oh no, I.

Speaker 3 (01:45:48):
Took this picture. You're selfie. Yeah, it's a selfie.

Speaker 1 (01:45:52):
There it is there, it is all right, we've really
done it.

Speaker 3 (01:45:55):
Let's yeah. Should we cut it? Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (01:45:57):
How do you want to cut it?

Speaker 3 (01:45:58):
Cut my head off, yeah, cut my don't cut your
feet off? Straight down the middle.

Speaker 1 (01:46:05):
Yeah, okay. Got ice cream cake? So hard? So dangerous?

Speaker 2 (01:46:09):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (01:46:09):
Gorganzola cherry flavor? You bet?

Speaker 5 (01:46:12):
It's actually and thank you to Corey, our set decorator
as well. It's chocolate cake with cookies and cream ice cream.

Speaker 3 (01:46:19):
Oh that's bloody.

Speaker 7 (01:46:21):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:46:23):
We should just you know what here? Okay, eat your
face true face cheers.

Speaker 1 (01:46:31):
Yes, the ultimate act of narcissism, eating your own face.

Speaker 2 (01:46:35):
Well that is this week's episode of Rewind. It's the
one hundredth episode we've rewound.

Speaker 1 (01:46:42):
We're going to go back to a better time to
say goodbye, when Elvis was still alive. Yeah, and we'll
let him say goodbye from twenty seventeen. We want you
to stay sexy, and we also want you to don't
get murdered. Bye bye, Elvis. Want Cookie All

All Episodes

Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 100: The 100th Episode

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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