Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 112: Galore Galore! - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello. Hello. And welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
This is the show where we recap our early episodes
with new case info and old feelings.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Today we're rewinding to episode 112, which we named Galore Galore.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
This episode came out on March 15th, 2018.

Speaker 4 (00:34):
Right.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Let's listen to the intro of episode 112. hi hello
here and welcome georgia to my.

Speaker 5 (00:44):
Favorite med that's there we are when we do the.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Switch off thing it immediately feels like i'm in second
grade i immediately want to ruin it it's do you
mean like just say the line that isn't your line
yeah because i hate it it's i know it's really
dumb like blow it all up to the moon you
know yeah it's that that That's the feeling I get, too.
But also, it's so easy to follow.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
It is.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
And you just know what to do. And it's catchy
and there's a jingle. It kind of reminds me, it
reminds me of camp. Oh. My. Favorite. Camping. Camping stories.
Camping trip. Do you. Oh, I have a right off
the bat. Well, no. You want to write off the
bat this thing? Corrections corner myself.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Get out in front of even the show itself to
correct yourself.

Speaker 5 (01:34):
At last, I just want to say, someone pointed out
to me on Twitter last week during my murder, I
said the word transvestite.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
I should have said transgender. And I think even in my.

Speaker 5 (01:44):
Mind, I wasn't totally clear on the differences.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, I think the person who wrote to us and
lots of people were saying, what a good call in
and not a call out. The person said, it's the
modern phrase is trans.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:59):
So I screwed that up and I 100% will do
my best to move forward and fuck in.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Just do it right. Well, here's the thing. And it
was such a lovely phrase. Lovely phrase tweet. But I
have I don't know. Like when someone says, you know,
the common parlance is trans. I just am speaking from
what I've known from when I heard people talk about it.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
So it's like we do need those updates. Absolutely. And like,
you know.

Speaker 5 (02:29):
I think I copied and pasted some fucking thing from
Wikipedia and just was reading it.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
And I need to stop and think about it when
I'm doing shit like that.

Speaker 5 (02:36):
And I know, even though I think I'm like, it
was so hard about being corrected when you think you're
fucking liberal and woke as fuck and like on it.
It's so hard to be like, I didn't screw up.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
I support everyone. You can still screw up and it's okay.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
And also it's just, it's just that fine tuning of,
it's not a massive screw up. It's just a person going, oh,
that just, I don't, it makes me feel discluded or
it makes me feel bad.

Speaker 5 (03:01):
Or it's perpetuating a negative stereotype that.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
I a hundred percent don't want to be part of. No, no, no.
There's no time for that. On this podcast of all
the things we're trying to do, that's the last fucking
thing we're trying to do.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Also, I will say in that same vein, in a
corrections vein, um, Um, maybe not all the way in
the corner, but somebody on Twitter was like, Hey, have
you guys ever talked about wind river? And I was
literally standing in my backyard, like doing one thing. And
then I just wrote, we did it. I wasn't even
really thinking about it. I was like, I was getting
four things done at once.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
We did.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
And then she took it as like she jokingly was like,
I was chided.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
But then I whatever.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
And I but I really meant this. I was like,
I really didn't mean it that way. Of course, it
seemed that way. It's Twitter and whatever.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
But what I did like that she was bringing up
her point was what and our point.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Was when we talked about it on the podcast is
Wind River is such a great movie because it's finally
bringing light. to like the murder and missing indigenous women
of America and also of Canada.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Right.

Speaker 5 (04:09):
And then they mentioned this podcast that I had meant
to mention a while ago and hadn't. But so the
podcast is called Missing and Murdered. And season one, I
listened to and loved it called who it was about
who it was titled, Who Killed Alberta Williams. And that
was really good. And the new season just came out.
And this one's called Finding Cleo. And it's hosted by
and like you know, made by Connie Walker, who's an

(04:32):
investigative reporter and an indigenous woman herself.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (04:36):
So it's really, it's really good. I, I, I'm going
to listen to Finding Cleo now, but the first one
who killed Alberta Williams was really good.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (04:43):
I can't wait to listen to, but you have to
look up Missing and Murdered as the name.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
The name of it is Missing and Murdered. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Um, I would, I liked that because I was also
going to say on Twitter and then I was like,
never explain anything on Twitter. It's such, it's so pointless,
but I wanted to say, like when we did our
Vancouver show last, the last time we were on tour
and we were in Vancouver, I wanted to do the
high of the highway of tears, but the, there are
so many victims and there's no, there's kind of no

(05:11):
single story. It's just all these disappearances and all these
really sad stories. So it was like, I wanted to
explain on Twitter that, Yeah. I've never tackled that because
once I started looking into it, it was this expansive.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
And they each have their, they each should be their
own episode.

Speaker 5 (05:26):
Like Alberta Williams in this one is one of the
women from the highway of tears, but it has not,
you know, it's, it maybe has nothing to do with
any of the other women and it's its own, it's like,
you know, multi-part story itself.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
So it's so hard to.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Each one of those cases should be, it, it, it's like, it's,
it gets so vast. It's very much like the grim sleeper.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
It had, it went on for so long that there
are so many people that you're talking about that you
can't not under, under like serve those victims.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
And their stories.

Speaker 5 (05:58):
I was going to do like three of the three
victims or one of the victims that was it was
solved when they found out that it was this serial
killer and it was caught in a really cool way.
But then it's none of the women who this was
solved about were indigenous. So then I was like, I'm
going to only do the Highway of Tears with the
non-indigenous women.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
And that doesn't sound right. So I didn't do that one.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Well, that's kind of, yeah, that's not the point for
what that story is. So it's very cool that there
are people that are dedicating entire true crime podcasts to
that area. And, um, thank you guys for who, to
the people who brought all that stuff up for us
on Twitter.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
We appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. Now fun times in the sunshine.
Let's go fun. Let's have some fun. Let's go to camp.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
We had a little campy kind of event because on
the podcast, I said I wanted to take a tour
of jet propulsion laboratories, which is a place here in, um,
very close to where we are right now in Pasadena, uh,
where they build things like the Mars rover and things
that they put on Mars and other planets.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Mars is the only one I know. So in saying
that on the podcast, we got some.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Responses from people who actually worked at JPL who were like,
I can give you a tour. And the person that
I guess either Steven picked or seemed the most credible.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Maybe it was the most high end.

Speaker 5 (07:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Like we got the guy. I was betting it.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (07:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Steven was, he was only going for the superstars of JPL.
We got a guy who is an engineer named Lou
Gersh and he is in charge.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
All right. Listen to this shit. He is in charge of.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Entry, Descent, and Landing Systems Analysis for the Europa Project.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Europa being a moon of Jupiter. Sure. Which Georgia knew.
She already knew that. Even though I didn't go because
I was sick. That's right. It was me. It was Steven.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
It was our friend, Scotty Landis. And we took a
full on tour of this place. It's like this gorgeous
college campus, but only smart people, which that's the way
colleges should be.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
And did you see that guy.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
When we were walking in a building, there was a
guy that walked out and he was wearing a total
like Blues Brothers suit. But he had kind of like longish,
like early 80s guy hair. And he was, I was like,
look at that rocket scientist.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
He's so cute. Like every, everywhere I looked, I.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Was like, that's the most fascinating person. Like everyone just
seemed so cool and smart. And they were all working
on putting things onto different planets.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Oh my God. It was incredible. Can I say, can
I tell you a love story? Sure. I know a
girl named Nicolette and her... Sheridan. Sheridan.

Speaker 5 (08:42):
Her, like, super gorgeous husband is a super smart rocket scientist.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Loving it. I think he works at JPL.

Speaker 5 (08:48):
He was sending, when they first started dating, he was sending, listen,
I'm getting all of this wrong, but essentially he sent
a thing to a planet.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
Maybe it was the moon. I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Is the moon a planet or is it just our moon?

Speaker 1 (09:03):
A fucking rock. He sent it to a thing, to
a place.

Speaker 5 (09:06):
And he fucking wrote her name on the machine that
was landing on the moon or Jupiter or Mars.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Oh, no. Nicolette.

Speaker 5 (09:14):
So it's going to be there. And it's, you know,
it stays there forever. They can't send them back. So
he wrote her name.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
That's like when you really like someone. Oh, my God.
It's so beautiful. How sweet is that? I love it.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
All in all, just it was an incredible experience. Lou
was the best. He was the best guide. We got
to see the coolest things. He's an incredibly friendly, smart,
cool guy. And his wife, Lindsay, is also a listener.
So hi, you guys. And thank you so, so much.
we actually got to shop at the JPL gift store

(09:49):
at the end, bought my dad a hat, got my
niece a sweatshirt, got myself a sweatshirt.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
I was going to buy you a shirt.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
And then I looked at it. I was like, this
is cute. She'll like this font. And I was like,
really do it. And then I'm like, she will never
wear this shirt. Like, this is not your style.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
You just wanted to spend money. I did. It was
so fun to shop. And they had like, Stephen, you bought...
I bought... i bought space ice.

Speaker 5 (10:11):
Cream i love that they haven't changed the package since
we were children right yeah.

Speaker 4 (10:17):
It's an astronaut neon colors.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Neapolitan ice cream and how was it.

Speaker 4 (10:21):
It wasn't good i took one bite and i turned
to karen and i was like oh this is bad
but it was like that thing of like i would
always see that and i'd want it and of course
my dad or my mom would be like no yeah
and then i finally was like i have my own
money yep It's my life.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
They were right. They're just like, oh yeah, this is
what substitutes as ice cream in the furthest, darkest space.
Because ice cream is good. Ice cream is good.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
So anyway, the next time you hear about any kind
of a, any rover of any type being landed on Europa,
which is a moon of Jupiter.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
That's Lou. That's Lou, baby. Thanks, Lou.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Lou and his team and everybody else at JPL, the coolest,
the coolest scientists around.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
The coolest. Can we say RIP Stephen Hawking? Oh, very nice.
Nice fold in. End cap.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Did you see my tweet where my dad texted me
at 1045 at night and goes, I read a thing
where Stephen Hawking died.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Amazing. What does that mean? It is. I think he
meant like what amazing life. He meant a bunch of
stuff that he didn't write. Such a dad. It made
me laugh so hard. Amazing. Where it's like, yeah, you
mean dying, dying, being a human being. It is amazing.

(11:41):
I love it. All right.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
I also found out I got some information from my dad.
My mom used to give my dad shit all the time.
Because he used to have a Jewish girlfriend when he
was in his 20s. And she would be like, I
know you liked her more than me. She knew her
name for some reason. It was like a running joke
between them. And last night we were talking when I
called my dad to console him about his amazement about

(12:05):
Stephen Hawking's death. Somehow that came up. Because he found
out she was next door neighbor's daughter. or he knew
and told me she was next door neighbors with dick
van dyke when she was growing up and i'm like
oh so she was like rich rich and he goes
oh yeah they lived in bel-air and i'm like i
go dad i'm going.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
There you could have been rich a rich.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Kid rich i could have been half jewish and half
irish which is so badass yeah imagine yeah the confidence
and the guilt um Anyway, so I told my dad,
I texted my dad that I was going to find
her address and go ring the doorbell and say that
I was the family's long lost daughter. And he wrote,
don't embarrass me.

Speaker 5 (12:49):
Anyway, I'm going to embarrass my family so much on
stage on Friday. I'm going to do it anyways.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
It's not about them. No, it's not. It's not. It's
about you. It's about me.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Please focus on what's important. Me in a jumpsuit that
doesn't look good on me.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
We're going to get you the best outfit. You know
what we're going to do? You know what we're going
to do, Karen? We're going to get you a big
chunky necklace. We're going to cinch it at the waist.
We're going to belt it. We're going to belt it
and cinch it. We're going to get Spanx arm sleeves.
That's fucking right.

Speaker 5 (13:17):
You're going to wear long gloves up to your fucking tits.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
It's going to be amazing. You know what we're going
to do? We're going to send my tits out by themselves.
And just let them do the show. Opening number. Lead
with the tits, ladies. Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
I actually thought of that where I'm like, what if
this is just a show where I just go out
just L.A.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Style and be like Angeline Cleavage and a fan across
my face. Hold on a second. You know what we
haven't talked about? What?

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Did you see the thing that someone posted on Twitter
and they're like, you were in.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
The Oh, I shouldn't want to talk about it. Oh
my God. It made me laugh my ass off. They
said you were in the Observer, some British newspaper, and
it was only a picture of Georgia. I know. And
it's like the best photo of me. It's such a
good picture. Thank God. Well, you know what I was thinking?

(14:11):
It's only me. It's It's hilarious. Why did that happen?

Speaker 2 (14:16):
One of a couple reasons, but I don't think there's
any decent picture of me where I'm standing like full
body that I would be the same size as you
and look normal next to you.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
But there's a really great photo that Robin Von Swing
took of us. yeah but it wouldn't have fit in
that lineup because they were trying to fit those five
people it was like five podcasts.

Speaker 5 (14:34):
And I look like I'm fucking hanging out with the
Osbournes you you look like.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
You are on a red carpet like Hollywood style I
was and when I looked at for what for.

Speaker 5 (14:43):
This for like the food video the food taste awards
like the food oh yeah and this is like three
years ago and I clearly look like that's my best
I'll ever be.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
I doubt it. No, you've got so much more ahead
of you, girl. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
I was, I have to say I was insanely relieved
because I was just like, I don't know a picture
that I can imagine being put next to that picture
that I would be like, oh, great. My midsection is
in that newspaper. But what's also really funny is Josie,
I'm not going to be able to remember her last
name offhand, but she's a little bit further down. And

(15:21):
she's the one that used to, she's a British woman
that used to be on Whose Line Is It Anyway
with Greg Proops and Ryan Stiles all the time.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Like the original one, she's super. Hold on. I want
to say Josie Moran, but that's not right. And she
is truly one of the funniest people on the planet.
Hold on, hold on. And I wonder if the girl
that tweeted it to us, because that's how I saw it,
if she thought that that was me. Oh. I mean,

(15:47):
I doubt it. Josie Lawrence. Josie Lawrence. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Is one of the best improvisers there is and one
of the funniest women on the planet. So I was like, well,
maybe she's mistaking us.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
How sassy I look in this. Yeah, I know. I know.
Who is that girl? Good luck with your fucking podcast.
All right. It's my turn. I want to look like her. No,
it's such a good picture. I'm happy about that.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
Um, okay.

Speaker 5 (16:13):
I found a new, okay. I wonder if you've never
heard of it. Like a new police crime drama hit me.
on netflix okay i'm gonna get i feel like i
wanted to text you over the weekend because i've been
sick and vince was gone so i just fucking binge
watch this shit and i was like i'm gonna tell
karen it's norwegian the break no uh it's norwegian the

(16:36):
dark no which is great because uh You read it,
it's subtitled so you can eat crackers really loudly and
you don't have to turn it louder, which I realized
over the weekend how great that was.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
So it's called Borderliner. Yes, I just started it. Oh
my God, how hot is the cup? It's crazy. And
he's secret gay. Secret gay, which is always... Making out
with the other hottest guy, who's a lawyer.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
For some reason, I didn't see that coming. When you're
watching a foreign show, I always, from watching so many
of them, I'm like, I know what this usually contains.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
You're going to set up like... The haggard mother that's
still getting it all done and a cop.

Speaker 5 (17:17):
And then the female cop's going to come along and
she's hot and they're going to make out.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yes. You just think you know all the tropes.

Speaker 5 (17:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
So that, and that guy started kissing that other guy.
Like we were only in it for two and a
half minutes.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
It was shockingly hot. It was surprisingly exciting.

Speaker 5 (17:34):
He is the guy who plays a hot gay cop
whose name I don't have and probably couldn't pronounce if
I wanted to.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Right. It's Vince Doster's daughter. Right. Is so beautiful. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (17:44):
So such a handsome cop guy. But anyways, I'm like
almost done with it and it's really good. Shit keeps happening.
Shit keeps happening where I'm like, I would have just
told already. Like they keep getting themselves deeper and deeper.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Oh, like, yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
Sometimes like the line of you can't suspend disbelief that long.

Speaker 5 (18:05):
But I get it when it's like, well, if I
now tell him in even more trouble than if I
should have told in the beginning, now I'm fucked.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
It needs to keep happening. Yeah. But I don't know.
It's good. And there's a strong.

Speaker 5 (18:14):
Female lead who's like on to everyone's lies and is
just like going for the truth. She's a fucking detective
as well. love it going.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
For it there's something about those foreign procedurals maybe it
is the the subtitles that i really.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Love yeah it's so much i like it they.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Make it very clear yeah i've spent all day by
myself typing on some in some version most of it
with you but just lots and lots of typing and
writing in silence yeah so i'm really just getting these
words up on their feet right now just trying some
stuff out. And I just keep saying things and then going.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Like, don't, what? No.

Speaker 5 (18:52):
I spent the weekend alone and didn't, I left the
house for 15 minutes maybe because Vince was gone, you know,
and I like didn't change my clothes. I didn't shower.
I was just like, And then it was a good
reminder of like, here's what you're like alone. Not everyone,
but I am a particularly bad single person. Yes.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
So it was nice, a nice reminder.

Speaker 5 (19:15):
And then not talking, but then I realized I was
talking because I was just having whole conversations.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
With my cats. Yes. You know, that's, that's where we
go to narrating their lives. I mean, I start.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Fake arguments just to entertain myself where I'll be like,
what are you two doing in here? And they're just
laying there like watching me only with their eyes moving. Uh, yeah, it's, um,
There's nothing like being a hermit.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Should we just like do it?

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Let's just get into it. I feel like I just
had one more. other thing to tell you, though. Oh,
I was just going to say I'm really excited for
our L.A.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Show. We have to do an L.A. show in two days.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
I'm super excited, but I'm starting to get insanely nervous.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
It's so much higher stakes. Yeah. Because people we know
are going to be there. It feels like.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
It feels like we've done all these great shows with
all these amazing people all around the country and have
these amazing experiences.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
And they were all people we didn't know. Right. And
there's no way we can prove it.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
It doesn't matter that all that great stuff happened because
now it's just like, now you just got to put
up or shut up in your hometown.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
It's going to be like.

Speaker 5 (20:28):
Some of my girlfriends are coming and my fucking mom
and dad are coming and like my aunt might come and,
and then all our agents are going to be there.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
It's going to be scary. It's like feels official. And
then it also feels like, you know, I also feel
like last time we, Played L.A. and did the Orpheum.
I didn't do like it was I was new at it.

Speaker 4 (20:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
So I wasn't on my game. It was a while ago. Yeah.
And so I feel like I this is now my time.

Speaker 5 (20:55):
To prove to all these L.A. people that I don't
suck anymore.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
Which is hilarious. No pressure.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
As if you haven't been performing and posting live shows
where you, it's in no way suck.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
But LA doesn't know that. No, I know.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
LA doesn't know anything. And that's the problem is that like,
it's very, when we, when this podcast started to actually
get popular in a way that that actually mattered to
me where I was just like, nah, like in the beginning,
I just didn't buy it.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
And you would show me things. I'd just be like,
this is a bunch of bullshit. And you'd be like,
stop getting excited. It's going to end.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Don't be, I just needed to curb your, I want,
I didn't want to see the heartbreak.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
I just wanted to get it over with. Like this
thing is going to fucking snap back on both of
us so hard. You're going to regret the day that
you were happy. You will rue the day you asked
me over.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
But so to have it, When something matters in LA,
I just, it's like, I've lived here for 25 years.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
And nothing fucking matters. Like nothing punches through. Right.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
So then to actually punch through, you think that's what
you want to do. Then it starts happening and you're like,
oh my God.

Speaker 5 (22:00):
Well, I think that's like that for anyone with success
with low self-esteem or with like low self-worth is when
you get success, you doubt it so much that you're
like any kind of Success.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
You're like, bullshit. Who's fuck?

Speaker 5 (22:13):
Why are you fucking with me? You know, instead of
being like, this is great. And I'm enjoying it.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Right. Because you plan for what you plan for how
it's going to happen.

Speaker 5 (22:21):
And like my therapist told me, I worship at the
altar of doubt. And so anything good that happens, I'm like, no.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
And here's why. And it's good that I feel this way.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Because now I'm taking care of myself. Right. It's just
that it takes time to catch up.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
So then I feel like I'm just catching up in
these last couple days where I was like, shoot, I
meant to lose 40 pounds. Oh, shoot, I meant to
do this and that. Like, oh, shoot, we were going
to decorate the stage or whatever. Like, it felt like
we were supposed to do some big, like, we're auditioning
for our own show.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
It's Wednesday, and I just was like, maybe we should
get our makeup done. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (22:53):
And I emailed him like a friend and I'm like,
she's got to have a job that day. She's not
going to do it.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Here's the thing. I know it's going to be fun.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
And I know that when I am nervous for something,
which doesn't happen that often because I'm an old, been
around the block.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
You're being very mean to yourself this episode.

Speaker 5 (23:13):
And I'm going to have to ask you to stop
being mean to my friend.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Okay. All right. But I'm just saying. It's fun to
be excited at this late date. It's going to be great.
It's all people supporting us except my mom. And it's
just going to be amazing. I'm just going to focus
on Janet's face the whole time.

Speaker 5 (23:33):
If I don't do well, she'll be so disappointed in.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
Me. Jesus.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
Okay, we're back. I did have a corrections corner about
using the term transvestite when I meant transgender. And again,
apologies for that. You know, I feel like there were
so many things we were learning in the first couple
years of this podcast.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah. that. I'm so glad we did.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
I feel like too, nowadays with the full cultural dominance
of drag, everybody knows their terminology and everybody's gotten a
really good education. The people that care have gotten their
education about stuff like this. But I think we've proven
on this show that our hearts are in the right
place and that we're totally willing to learn.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
Totally. And correct ourselves for sure. And yeah, it's been
We've been lucky that we've been given that grace. Also
on the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, Girls, and Two-Spirit
People issue, there was a major update after this episode.
Canada's National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and
Girls released its final report on June 3rd, 2019. And

(24:44):
Connie Walker also continued doing major investigative podcast work after
Missing and Murdered. Her podcast, Stolen, Surviving St. Michael's, won
both a Pulitzer Prize and a Peabody Award in 2023.
And it was the first podcast series to win both
in the same year, which is so incredible.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
Connie Walker's work on this topic, on the Native topics
about the injustices of First Nation tribes in this country,
in Canada, just in general, but I think in Canada
and specifically for Connie Walker is amazing. I've been trying
to work on story about residential schools for so long.

(25:22):
And Maren and I have been working, and Molly, you know,
all talking about it and working on it. But it
is such a vast, like, the amount and extremity of
abuse in those schools is so horrifying. It's like trying
to put a concise story together, you know, from my
point of view. It's taken forever because we're just like,
how do we do this in a way that's actually
going to be helpful to these conversations. So, you know,

(25:46):
until we figured out, definitely go support Connie Walker, listen
to Stolen, Surviving St. Michael's, listen to Missing and Murdered. Like,
a Native woman doing the work on behalf of her
own people, it's really powerful.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Do you remember that LA show? I do. It was
a good one.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
That was the one where the house lights were basically
up the entire time. I could see every single person
in the audience at that show.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
That makes it harder.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
That really makes it harder when you can make eye
contact with people in, like, the back.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Also, it was a really beautiful theater. It was very gold. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
And it kind of felt, like, very fancy that night.
It was really fun.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
It was cool being downtown, too, because, like, it's so historic.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
You know, there's just, yeah, when we go in those
old historic theaters, it makes it, it just fits our
creepy-ass haunted vibe so much.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah. And to do that in Los Angeles, of all places,
is such an honor. Yeah, so exciting.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Okay, well, let's get into George's story about the murder
of Rachel Hoffman.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
I think it's you, right? Didn't I do it last time? Oh, okay.
I go first this time. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (26:59):
Great. This is a case that I brought up a
while back and couldn't remember the name of it. And
everyone told me, of course, that was listening. And I couldn't,
I couldn't remember, but I was so obsessed with this
when I first heard about it. So I'm so surprised
I haven't done this one yet. This is the murder
of Rachel Hoffman.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Okay. And the creation of Rachel's Law.

Speaker 5 (27:23):
And I heavily leaned on a 2012 New Yorker magazine
article called The Throwaways by Sarah Stillman. And like she
wrote the piece, it like won awards.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
It's so good. Okay, great. So she, listen, I just.
Used a lot of her stuff. Cool. And she's, and
thank you. Okay.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
So Rachel Morningstar Hoffman was born December 17th, 1984. She
was this bright, friendly, open, lovely person. Everyone who met
her loved her.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
And by 2008. Oh, so recently. Okay.

Speaker 4 (27:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (28:01):
By 2008. So she's 23 years old. She had just
graduated from Florida State University in Tallahassee.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Also where Ted.

Speaker 5 (28:08):
Bundy finished up with an undergraduate degree in criminal justice
and psychology. So she'd also interned as a mental health
at a mental health institute. And she had just been
admitted to a master's program in mental health counseling. But
she was also considering culinary school because she wanted to

(28:31):
use cooking to connect with at-risk youth and counsel them
through cooking.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Wow. She's like a fucking good person. That's a great idea, too. Yeah. Right.

Speaker 5 (28:41):
So picture like... young, pre, oh my God, what the fuck,
Miley Cyrus. She kind of looked like that. Like, like
little Hannah Montana before she transformed into Hannah, I don't know,
I didn't watch the show, but I was.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Long hair? Yeah, like long, pretty red hair, cute face.

Speaker 5 (28:58):
She looked like, she looked like, like a a hippie,
like a hippie jock that you, you know, would know.
And she liked going to like fast music festivals, but
not like Coachella, you know, with the fucking not, she
wasn't using, um, cultural appropriation and going to like fish
concerts and jam bands and shit.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Why are you saying that? Like, that's so much better.
I mean, come on. I mean, I would both rather
stay home, but I'm not a 23-year-old, am I? It's
not an either or. There's so many other options. You're right.
She was Jewish. She had been, you know, whatever. And
she had a social media account for her cats. Her cat.

Speaker 5 (29:34):
Whatever 2008 social media account was, she made one for
her cat.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
MySpace?

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, MySpace. But she'd go to.

Speaker 5 (29:42):
These music festivals with all her friends and she'd always
wear this crazy.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Purple fluffy hat. That was her thing.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Her signature look. So it was Jamiroquai appropriation. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Exactly.

Speaker 5 (29:53):
So she was an only child and she was close
to her parents. But what they didn't know was that
she was in a court ordered substance abuse program because
in February of 2007, while she was a senior in college,
Police had pulled her over for speeding and found almost
an ounce of pot in her car.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Oh. Which isn't a lot of pot, right? I don't
think so. Okay. But don't drive around with pot. Oh, no, no. No, no,
don't do it. Especially in Florida. Oh, God, no. You
know what I mean? Like, California, don't do it. Right. Florida, don't,
don't do it. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (30:27):
So it required that she take regular drug testing. So
instead of being charged with anything, they just made her
go to this court-ordered substance abuse program. Hawaii.

Speaker 3 (30:38):
Right.

Speaker 5 (30:39):
She wasn't in prison. I mean, she didn't stay there
or anything like that, but she had to go. And
she was keeping that from her family? I don't think
they knew. I'm pretty sure they didn't know. She did
smoke pot, though, regularly, and she also sold it in
small quantities to her friends around campus.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
College shit. I'm not fucking saying it's okay at all.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
But if you're wearing a big fuzzy hat, you're probably
going to sell small amounts of pot.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
And smell it. And you're definitely smell like small amounts
of pot.

Speaker 5 (31:09):
Well, it just so happens that her neighbors a year
later in April, 2008 smelled pot. It's funny that you
segmented into that and coming from her apartment. And, uh,
we're like, call the cops. We're like, dude, you got
to check this house out. I think it's a drug house.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
I know. Um, okay. Uh, and so really chill neighbors, cool,
the best neighbors.

Speaker 5 (31:34):
Um, I just remember when we lived in our old
place and our neighbors were like up in our faces,
like live so close to us. I once like yelled
at some kid to be quiet because he was screaming
his fucking head off and his mom yelled, I know
what you guys do. Just because Boone smokes pot and
she smelled it, you know?

Speaker 1 (31:53):
I was like, oh no. Good comeback. I get it.
You're right.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Your child should be able to scream as much as
he wants because we smoke pot.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Um, okay. Okay.

Speaker 5 (32:02):
So they, when they search, they searched her apartment because
of this and they found, um, just under a quarter
pound of weed, four ecstasy pills and two Valium pills.
And I asked Vince, baby, how much is a quarter
pound of marijuana? And he looked it up and told me.
And he said it would cost at that time around
$ 800 to $ 1, 000. So it's intent to sell probably as well.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
You don't have that much pot.

Speaker 5 (32:27):
Because of this, she could face serious prison time for
felony charges, including possession of cannabis with intent to sell
and maintaining a drug house. So she's freaking the fuck
out over this. She had just gotten fucking admitted to
this master's program. You know, what am I going to do?

Speaker 1 (32:43):
Blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 5 (32:46):
The officer in charge at this point, Ryan Pender, knew
that she was just a small time drug person supplying
to her friends, wasn't a fucking kingpin or whatever.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Right.

Speaker 5 (32:59):
So offers to make her a deal. All she has
to do is identify other marijuana drug users. dealers in
town do you know this one.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
I i feel like i have a shade of of
it yeah um oh my god here we go yeah
has to identify she just has to identify other pot
dealers in town and she'll get off they won't even
charge her with anything the answer has to be no
always no i want a lawyer you can't be a
snitch don't be a snitch.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Don't do it you don't trust that that's what's going to.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Happen right The concept of anonymity, please, from all movies
and TV we know, that will be broken.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Well, here we go. Okay.

Speaker 5 (33:38):
So she was like, no, I won't do that. Some
of those people are her friends, and she refused to
snitch on her friends. But then they were like, well,
how about then instead you become a confidential informant, CI,
they call them, in a drug sting operation, like a
bigger one. And she thought that any charges would be
reduced or even dropped. So she agreed to become a C.I.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
Right.

Speaker 5 (34:02):
So the next day she first tried to set up
another student at Florida State who was a small time
campus dealer. And she felt so guilty about it that
she called the guy and was and told him what
she had planned to do.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
She's just like a.

Speaker 5 (34:18):
Like look at her photo. She's like a sweet baby angel.
And not that it's okay, but she's clearly in her
fucking head.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
Well, see, that's the thing is that idea that you're
going to, here's how I'm going to solve things here.
I'm going to get a little extra spending money by
not getting a job at Staples. What I'm going to
do is, is sell small amounts of reasonable pot.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
And it's like, that's fine. Except for you are now
in the drug world. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
And that's how things spin out. past your control. Like
you're just pretending that you will have control.

Speaker 5 (34:48):
Yeah. And you keep doing that and you keep making
bigger and bigger bets. Like we were talking about exactly
like in Norwegian procedural dramas.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yes. Ask, always get a lawyer immediately. Get that lawyer.
Keep your mouth shut. Yeah. Um, so the guy who
she called and was like, I'm sorry.

Speaker 5 (35:05):
He, he forgave her, but also agreed to help her
with police stuff. So he, The police had told Rachel
at this point that run-of-the-mill pop bus would not fucking suffice.
And they needed bigger dealers. So this was totally not
Rachel's fucking thing. She didn't know bigger dealers. But the

(35:28):
student that she had called was like, I know someone.
There's a dude at a car detailing shop near campus
who he's seen dealing drugs.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
And he said, I bet he can hook you up.
So she didn't even know this guy. Oh, no.

Speaker 5 (35:42):
So Rachel goes to the car shop and speaks with
a guy. His name is Danilo Bradshaw. He's 23. And
he gets his brother-in-law, Andre Green, who's 25, to help
her as well. She lets them know she needs a
bunch of cocaine. Fifteen hundred ecstasy pills.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Oh, no.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
And as she described it, a quote, small and pretty handgun.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
What?

Speaker 5 (36:12):
So and they were like, why the fuck do you
need you a little thing need a handgun? And she said,
I'm a little Jewish girl. I need to protect myself.
So this, I mean, she got caught with four XTC
pills and they're giving her the total amount that they,
that for all this would cost that they were going
to give her was $ 13, 000. So this is an amount
that is that way beyond her level of comprehension as

(36:36):
a drug person.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
The thinking behind this of like, we're going to get
a mole and it's a person who is not truly
in the drug world.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Totally. Like it's such a sideways approach. Right.

Speaker 5 (36:48):
So on the afternoon of when the drug bust was
supposed to go down, when she was going to bust them.
So Rachel goes to the police headquarters. And Officer Pender
places a surveillance wire and recording device in her purse,
which I guess is totally against standard procedures. They usually
hide it more and it's not in her purse.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah. Which also is weird that she would have to
keep her purse on her the whole time. Yes. Which
probably looks suspicious.

Speaker 5 (37:11):
Yeah. So they give her $ 13, 000 in marked bills. Can
you imagine carrying $ 13, 000 around with you?

Speaker 1 (37:16):
I did a lot. just so I can get what
I want. You always need cash. I need, you always do.

Speaker 5 (37:25):
I always have to borrow like dollar bills for the valet.
For me, for some reason, I've never had dollar bills.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
You know, it's really funny.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
I can't remember what happened, but I, something happened where
I didn't have use of my ATM card.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
I'm sure I lost it.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Or I just, a thing I often do is just
entirely blank on the pin.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Like I'll just be standing there. I'll be like, no
idea what that is. Use it every day.

Speaker 5 (37:47):
No idea.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
Oh, I've done that like twice. But so I keep,
somewhere in my home. Why would I ever say this?
But I mean, I, I keep cash so that I
can always have it because that's kind of my weird fear.
So I also squirrel it away.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Like just put, I'll put like $ 3 bills in my
car somewhere.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Do you remember where you keep all of it? No, no, no.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
It's just like, I don't think about it. I don't
want to look at it. It's just like, I know
something is there just in case they need it.

Speaker 5 (38:13):
Well, they say like for the end days, you know,
like you told, keep your gas tank full, but also
hide money in your house.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
Hide money and make sure the money is gold doubloons
because no cash money won't help you.

Speaker 5 (38:25):
Well, you know, my fucking dad bought me silver. He's like,
That's true.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Silver. Paper money is not going to have any value
during the end days. Right. Silver will always have value.
He thinks that's what's going to happen?

Speaker 4 (38:37):
Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
Why doesn't he buy you a whole bunch of bananas?
Because that third Mad Max, fresh fruit was just the
ultimate trading item.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Karen's on to something. Remember? Just get... I don't know
if bananas have seeds or if you have to grow
a tree or whatever.

Speaker 5 (38:54):
Get a banana tree. There is a mini banana tree
in this complex.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
Is that true? Yeah. I can't imagine they're edible. Just
build a little fence around it and say, please. This
is mine. Put a post-it note that says, this is
my yogurt. Don't eat these bananas.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
I have a lemon tree, but that's just going to
give me a bunch of canker sores.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
I want it. No, everyone's going to need a, what's
it called? Citrus? Yeah, but the vitamin C. So they
don't get scurvy?

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
Okay, then I have to build my fence out around
my lemon tree now. And we're going to drink your
pool water. Yeah. Frank already drinks the pool water all
the time. Fucking Frank. jacuzzi cat drinks the fucking pool
water too.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
And they they do it i'm i can guarantee you
that the owner of jacuzzi cat there they have like
a one of those water things that has like a
waterfall in it and they still won't drink that.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Stuff animals Am I right? Make them a MySpace page.

Speaker 5 (39:48):
My cats already have an Instagram account. OK, so they
the police assure her that they're that they would be
watching her the entire time and listening. There were 19
law enforcement agents tracking her and a Drug Enforcement Administration
surveillance plan plan or plane was circling overhead.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
So they she thought that they were she was taken
care of. Right.

Speaker 5 (40:11):
So she's supposed to meet the guys, the drug dealers,
at a public park. And then all these weird things
happen like on her way there, or maybe she had
met them and they're like, let's go to a different location,
which she wasn't supposed to do. Um, they go to
that location and then the agents had, you know, she
had been breaking up because it was like an outdoor park.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
There's not a lot of sales service. It was not
an indoor park. It was not. Wow. There was not
the bio dome. It wasn't. Um, this is the saddest thing.

Speaker 5 (40:43):
Her boyfriend, when she texted him that she's on her way,
her boyfriend joked, uh.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
Texted, I kind of like you, so be safe. Oh no.

Speaker 5 (40:53):
So then she, so she loses contact with the officer
while she's on her way to the second location. And
by the time he hears from her again, she tells
him that she's following them to another location. And this
one's at the end of a dead end, uh, road. Uh,
And before, this is what officer Pender says, before he

(41:14):
tell her not to go, knowing that a dead end
road is a really bad thing to be caught in,
he loses contact with her completely again.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
But she didn't know that they had lost contact with her. Yeah,
because she's not a fucking cop. She's not a trained anything. Exactly. Oh,
she didn't know they lost contact?

Speaker 5 (41:31):
She didn't know that they couldn't even hear her wire.
Because how would she know?

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Right.

Speaker 5 (41:35):
Because she had been on the cell phone with her
that dies and she's like, well, I'm still wired, so.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
So she didn't know.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
And there was a helicopter at some point, so they
must be monitoring me in some way.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Right.

Speaker 5 (41:47):
So at this point, officers begin frantically searching the area,
trying to find her. And the DEA plane circles overhead,
but there's like, because it's an outdoor park, there's all
this dense brush overhead so they can't see anything. Um,
by the time they find the road and the turnoff,
Rachel and her car gone, everyone's gone. And instead they

(42:10):
found a spent 25 caliber round and two live ammunition rounds,
six cigarette butts and a single black flip-flop, which Rachel
had been wearing.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
When she left the station.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Oh no.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
I remember reading about this when it happened in 2008.

Speaker 5 (42:24):
So I was like 28 and like just being so sad,
but also I was picturing her and what, and how that, how,
you know, when she knew something was going down and
how awful that would have felt, but also, you know,
I had dabbled in drugs before and how easily I,
you know, she was this Jewish girl who was just

(42:45):
fucking around and having this time in her life when
she was trying something new and made bad decisions, which
I totally did too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
There's no reason I, I wouldn't have been in that
situation as well. Right.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
So it's, it's just, And it's the thing of which,
which happens to people, uh, of all walks of life
all the time, which is you did a bad, we
caught you doing a very minor bad thing.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Your life's ruined.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Or now you have to get involved in this other
thing that you like.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Now you just have no choice. Now you're kind of
our pawn. Right. And just so frightening. Yeah. Just that
feeling of having no choice and no way to get
out of a situation.

Speaker 5 (43:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
You always do. Even if it's fucking going to jail
for nine months, uh, you know, it happens.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Take the hit like Henry Hill and just fucking do
your time.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
And what am I saying? I would never. Karen's going
out in a blaze. I mean, no way. No way.
I'm going back to jail. No way. Okay.

Speaker 5 (43:44):
Uh, so at this point, Rachel had been working as
a CI for the police department for almost three weeks.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
That's it. And she, and yeah. So Let's fucking veer
off and talk about CIs for a minute. Rachel was
just one.

Speaker 5 (43:58):
And this whole article, this amazing article by Sarah Stillman
has a lot of information about this. I'm just kind
of picking some parts, obviously. So Rachel was just one
of thousands of people every year that helped police build cases.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
In exchange for leniency of their own cases, as we know.

Speaker 5 (44:17):
And it's estimated up to 80% of all drug cases
in America involve CIs. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
That's crazy. 80%? 80%.

Speaker 5 (44:25):
And this is partly because police departments have these crazy
budget issues. They don't have the kind of money to
get undercover officers. And untrained CIs are the only way
they can bust these people. And it's a small town.
They know the cops. Everyone knows who the cops are.
They're not going to send one of them in a
fucking fake mustache and be like, I'll have some drugs, please.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, you can't just Donnie Brasco it up when you're
in like small town America.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Exactly.

Speaker 5 (44:49):
But it also means that they're sending out untrained, sometimes juvenile, juvenile, juvenile.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
I thought you were going to say sometimes Jewish. Sometimes
even Jewish. Can you believe it?

Speaker 5 (45:02):
Occasionally as young as 14 or 15.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
No.

Speaker 5 (45:05):
Sometimes addicted people. To do and place them as undercover officers.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (45:11):
So another factor that came into play with this whole
fucking fiasco is that the is the war on drugs.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Remember our favorite fucking topic.

Speaker 5 (45:20):
Yeah. In the mid 80s, Congress enacted federal sentencing guidelines
that imposed harsh mandatory minimums for even fucking petty drug offenses.
Which means that some sentences for marijuana sales were longer
than those for murder.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah. It's horrifying. It's ridiculous. And of course, that meant
that the U.S.

Speaker 5 (45:38):
Prison population over the course of that decade doubled and
drug informants surged.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
But the problem with the CI system is that it's
totally unreliable.

Speaker 5 (45:49):
It's usually young people from lower income communities, often black
and Latino, who are under pressure to be informants because
they face, you know, so much more if they get
caught with these drugs and if they get put to
take them to jail and.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
You know, they have no choice.

Speaker 5 (46:06):
Yes. But to do this, uh, in one fucking insane case, LeBron, uh, Gaither,
he's a 16 year old student at a public high
school in Lebanon, Kentucky, uh, So in a uncharacteristic of him,
he gets in an argument with his school's assistant principal
and punches him in the face. Oh, uh, he's taken

(46:27):
into custody for juvenile assault and without a lawyer or
parent present, the, an officer from the Kentucky state police
tells him he could go to prison. Uh, but he, if,
unless he agreed to become a local drug informant. So
this isn't even a fucking drug charge. Um, After a sting,
LeBron had to testify before a grand jury against the

(46:50):
drug dealer he'd set up, Jason Noel. Jason Noel then
makes bail. And the very next day, the police send
LeBron back to him to do another sting on the
guy he had just testified against, thinking that he didn't
know who was the snitch.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
What?

Speaker 5 (47:08):
So they sent LeBron wearing a wire to buy more
drugs from LeBron. this dude, it turns out that of course,
Jason Noel, the drug dealer knew that LeBron was the
one who was snitching on him because everyone finds out everything. Right.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Well, and also those drug dealers, it's their business. Right. Right.
They have to be like three steps ahead. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (47:29):
And it's like, if it was another officer that was
being sent out undercover, his officer buddies would fucking make
sure he was safe, but it's just some person that
they don't care about and are not, you know, it's
not their business to, make sure that this person is
neither trained nor really safe. Right. Okay. So, so detectives
lose track of LeBron and, uh, during the sting and

(47:53):
Jason Noel drives off with him, LeBron is tortured, beaten
with a bat shot, run over by a car and
dragged by a chain through the woods and dies. And
it wasn't until 2014. So this was in, um, I
think it's 98. I didn't write it down. 2014, 18

(48:14):
years after his death. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
What's the math? No idea.

Speaker 5 (48:18):
The Supreme Court ruled in favor of his. So they
fucking ruled in favor of his family in wrongful death.
It got over fucking turned. Well, it's so frustrating. Then finally,
the Supreme Court overturned that overturning rule.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
And in his.

Speaker 5 (48:32):
Wrongful death suit, and they're awarded $ 148, 000, which is not enough.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
None of it is enough, obviously.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
But I bet you that's that thing of when they're,
they've built a system around this kind of, like these
kind of setups.

Speaker 5 (48:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
So when that system crumbles, they have to make sure
people can't then retroactively sue them.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Right. Because there could be so many people that could
do that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Have you, I mean, people tweet these things on Twitter
all the time where, Like in California and places where drugs,
you know, pot's legal or becoming legal or whatever. There's
these people who are like, here's this woman who made
$ 3 million in her new pot business of making edibles.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Aren't these cute?

Speaker 2 (49:14):
And then it's like, and here's this black teenager who
was sent to jail for.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
50 years because they dealt.

Speaker 5 (49:20):
Pot.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
And it's like, there's somebody who tweets it all the time,
but it's really mind blowing of like that white cultural
filter of when white people make pot for each other,
it's cool because we have cancer and we have pain
and CBD oil and blah, blah, blah. And when black
people deal pot, you're a criminal and.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
You should be, you should go away to jail forever.
And it's super fucked up.

Speaker 5 (49:42):
I mean, and then in a, in a couple of years,
in a decade and two, like when pot is decriminalized everywhere,
if we're going to look back and be horrified at
how we've been treating people who are addicted and smoke
pot and, I mean, more than anything, that's the problem
is you need to treat the people who are addicted

(50:02):
to drugs and need help rather than.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
I wouldn't prioritize pot in that because that's so many
people are able to live their lives doing pot. There's
people who are on Oxycontin who drive like city buses
and shit. Like there's an Oxycontin problem in this country
that's ravaging like certain states. And I mean, that's, you know,
the war on drugs is almost like bit itself in

(50:26):
the ass because now we just have pharmaceutical companies that
are like, oh.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Our drugs are fine. Yeah. You can't do those drugs.

Speaker 5 (50:33):
And we'll pay the doctors money if they prescribe them,
even though they're not necessary and they know they're addictive
and we're lying to you about how fucking addictive they are.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Mm-hmm. It's very dark. It's very dark. It's fucked. I
watch Intervention. I'm going to watch all those shows. Okay.

Speaker 5 (50:49):
There's also a case, and this, so LeBron was African-American.
Shelly Hilliard, she's an African-American teen from Detroit, and she
was caught with half an ounce of marijuana, which is
not a lot, threatened with jail time, but it was
especially scary for her because she is trans and And

(51:09):
so she would have been sent to a.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
Male prison, which is super scary for her.

Speaker 5 (51:14):
So she agrees to become a CI. They set her
up to set up her drug dealer. He finds out
and ultimately strangles, mutilates, burns, and dismembers.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
Shelly's body because she set him up.

Speaker 5 (51:30):
One witness in the murder case testifies that the police
had revealed Shelly's identity to her dealer.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
What? All for an ounce of weed.

Speaker 5 (51:40):
I mean, I know. Okay.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
Back to Rachel.

Speaker 4 (51:42):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
So the morning after her disappearance, she's disappeared. The cops
call her parents and they're like, Hey, have you seen Rachel?
Do you know where she is? Yeah. And they don't even, yeah.

Speaker 5 (51:55):
So they're like, what the fuck? They go to Tallahassee.
They're only told that Rachel is missing. Not that she
was a CI, um, or the circumstances of her disappearance.
They don't tell her them, her parents, anything. They go
back to Rachel's apartment to wait and, you know, for
next steps or whatever. They turn on the news and
that's when they discover that she had, quote, provided assistance

(52:16):
during a police operation.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
But they find out on TV. On the TV.

Speaker 5 (52:20):
And that then they find out that the officials suspect
foul play is going on.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
So they don't even know that there was foul play.

Speaker 4 (52:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (52:29):
So then on May 9th, 2008, after a two-day search,
after Rachel disappears, the two suspects are caught near Orlando
and they lead police to a dry creek bed in
rural Taylor County, which is southeast of Tallahassee, where Rachel's
body is found.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (52:46):
It turns out Rachel, and then it turns out that
the two drug dealers had fucking pegged her as a
mark from the beginning. And they had never intended to
sell her any drugs. All the ecstasy was fucking aspirin.
So they were going to trick her to begin with.
So it was even a stupid fucking thing to begin with. Um,
and then it's, it's totally, it's not totally clear because

(53:09):
no one knows exactly what happened, but it's thought that
they found the wire in her purse and, uh, freaked
the fuck out. They shot her five times in the
head and chest. So at a press conference at the
fucking scene, while her body is still there, officer Dave
McCraney McCraney of the Tallahassee police department says, quote, at

(53:29):
some point during the investigation, she chose not to follow
the instructions. She met Green and Bradshaw on her own.
That meeting ultimately resulted in her murder. So they're immediately
saying it was her own fault because she went to
another location. Which is like, can you imagine if she
went to one location and they were like, let's go
to another one, and she was like, no, and refused to?

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Right. And she thinks there's a plane, there's 19 officers,
she's being followed. She's never done this before. She's never
done this before. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (54:00):
And friends and family of Rachel are fucking pissed that
the police were trying to portray her also as a
hardcore drug dealer, like criminal, even though she had never
been convicted of any crimes. Um, and in the media
and that because she didn't follow directions, her murder was
her own fault. That's what they were trying to make
it seem. Uh, Rachel's parents are fucking pissed. Um, so

(54:21):
Irv Hoffman and Margie Weiss, they decided to put all
their energy into making policy changes to the way CIs
are used. So they wanted answers to questions like, why
was Rachel used in such a high-risk police thing when
she had no training? Why was she sent to buy
a semi-automatic pistol when she had never even fired a
fucking weapon before? Why was she pressured into taking part

(54:43):
in all of this before she consulted a lawyer? And
they're also not read Miranda rights and not given their
amendment fucking things because they're not under arrest.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Oh, right. So it's basically like, look, if you want
this to go away, it's under the table. Right. You're
not under arrest. So maybe they don't think to ask
for a lawyer.

Speaker 5 (55:04):
They want policy changes to the program, like not using
people in drug treatment programs, which makes sense because part
of being in a drug treatment program is you're not
allowed to hang out and associate with people who are
dealing and doing drugs in the first place. And that
non-violent low-level drug offenders like Rachel should not be used

(55:25):
in stings targeting traffickers with histories of violence. Additionally, CIs
should be given the right to counsel. That was their thoughts.
And then they found out that California was one of
the few states that had any rules governing the use
of teenage informants. and prohibited recruits younger than 13, which like,

(55:46):
isn't a great, like.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
That's just cut it off at junior high, like that.

Speaker 5 (55:51):
And they're the best example of doing well, which I
was 13 when I was using drugs and they could
have fucking had me rat on all those kids.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
I was also when you're 13, like, Oh yeah, that's
not good. Like that idea that you're just going to like, yep, yep.
We're going to blackmail this This like, we're going to.

Speaker 5 (56:08):
Blackmail this teenager to get another teenager to get the
whatever year old who sells a little more pot in
this town, who sells a little more pot in this town,
which is like, you're not getting, you're not getting enough
to street who's a danger. You're fucking just perpetuating this
thing of, you know, then these kids get out of
prison and they can't get a job because they have

(56:28):
a record. And so California 13, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
That rule had been put into place after 17-year-old Chad
McDonald was brutally murdered and his 15-year-old girlfriend raped and
shot in retaliation for Chad's work as a low-level drug
CI in 1998.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Oh, my God. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (56:47):
So they had made this kid, Chad, be a CI,
but everyone knew he was dealing meth and doing meth
at the time. And the police actually knew that, too,
but still used him. And everyone knew he was the snitch.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
And that still happened. Okay.

Speaker 5 (57:03):
So Rachel's parents began working on Rachel's Law, and they
got the father of one of Rachel's friends was a
Florida attorney named Lance Block.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
He agreed to work pro bono to help them.

Speaker 5 (57:14):
And on May 7, 2009, on the one-year anniversary of
Rachel's murder, Rachel's Law is signed by the governor of Florida,
but it's stripped of so many provisions.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
It's so basic. But it does establish.

Speaker 5 (57:28):
New guidelines for law enforcement when dealing with confidential informants.
So it does start the conversation of changing the way
it's done. And it's the first comprehensive legislation of its
kind in the nation. And they're still working to get
policy reforms on a national level. So they're still fucking
working on it. And in 2012, in a wrongful death lawsuit,

(57:53):
Rachel's parents won 2.6 million settlement from the city of Tallahassee,
along with a formal apology.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Wow. Sounds way different than what LeBron got. Yeah. Well,
I mean, of course.

Speaker 5 (58:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Of the police.

Speaker 5 (58:08):
Department's conduct, the grand jury, who are not like Judge Judy,
and they don't fucking usually tell people what, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 1 (58:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (58:14):
They said, quote, letting a young, immature woman get into
a car by herself with $ 13, 000 to go off and
meet two convicted felons that they knew were bringing at
least one firearm with them was an unconscionable decision that
cost Ms. Hoffman her life. And an internal affairs investigation

(58:37):
said that police officers had committed at least 21 violations
and nine.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
Separate policies with this case.

Speaker 4 (58:43):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (58:45):
So Green and Bradshaw are now serving life sentences for
the murder of Rachel Hoffman.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
And I.

Speaker 5 (58:52):
Think her parents put together an annual music and arts
festival called the Purple Hatter's Ball. Because remember, she wore
that purple hat.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (59:03):
And it's created to celebrate the memory of Rachel. It's
fucking her favorite jam bands. And it's like Facebook. painting
and all these lovely things um and uh everyone wears
purple And the next festival is in Live Oak, Florida
this June 1st and 2nd of 2018. So murderinos. And

(59:23):
she was a fucking criminal justice major. So, you know,
she was into true crime probably. So that was the
murder of Rachel Hoffman.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Amazing. So sad. So sad. And frustrating. Frustrating.

Speaker 5 (59:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Yeah. Okay, we're back. Do you have any updates?

Speaker 3 (59:43):
No updates, but I was just thinking about reading the
story again or listening to the story again, how cool
that this podcast was for us to cover these cases
that had been in our heads for so long and
had nowhere to go. Because this is one of those
cases where I read about it and read about it
and I was like, what the fuck? I want to
talk to someone about this. And then being able to

(01:00:06):
cover it is just like the whole point, I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Right. Right. It feels like you're getting it out there,
making sure people know about it. Yeah, because it's just
so fucking corrupt and fucked up and sad.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
And, you know, those stories where you're like, I could
see that happening to me or I could see how
that would happen.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
And it's just getting her story out. Yeah, it's important.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
And hoping it never happens again. But all right, let's
get into Karen's story. This is a big one. The
death of Bonnie Lee Bakley.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
OK, so this I'm doing this story this week because
I mentioned it last time.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
It's the murder of Bonnie Lee Bakley. Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
And and the, you know, eventual trial of famous Hollywood
actor Robert Blake.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Fuck yes, Karen.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
And it centers around one of the most popular and
exciting Italian restaurants in the Valley, Vitello's.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
It's gone, right? No, I think they redid it. It's
still there. Oh, yeah. Okay. It's just totally different now
because it used to be like divey. Well, it used
to be like, you know what it was?

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
It was like, clearly it was like built in the 60s, 70s,
probably early 70s, I would say.

Speaker 5 (01:01:20):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
So the inside was, like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
These big Naugahyde booths that were, like, red plastic fake leather.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Love it. There's a huge, like, wall... you know fresco
or whatever you want to.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Call it exactly right of uh like i don't know
i can't remember if it was like venice.

Speaker 5 (01:01:40):
And grapes or every grapes are draped on everything and
they're dusty because no one ever cleans.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Them yeah like literal like plastic grapes like look at
the bounty of milan or i mean wherever.

Speaker 5 (01:01:52):
Yeah and they have like a house a glass of
house chianti for three dollars or.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
Whatever yes And they have those like melty red candles.
It's just the whole, it's exactly like the classic Italian restaurant.
And the food, like the, the garlic bread is just
a big loaf of sourdough cut in half with garlic
on it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
I love old school places like this so fucking much.
I want to cry.

Speaker 5 (01:02:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
It's, you know, exactly what you're going to get. And
Vitello's is good food.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
Is it?

Speaker 5 (01:02:18):
Cause I don't even care if it's like a If
it's the fucking ambiance is on point, I'm good.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Well, do you like opera singers because they have that?
Shut up. Yes, they'll have all of a sudden an
opera singer will bust out singing. Can I tell you
something really quickly?

Speaker 5 (01:02:31):
Do you know the one that's just like this on
Vermont called Stephen? You know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Oh. Hold on. It's on Vermont. Dresden? No, it's on
Vermont across from the House of Pies. We go there all...
Vince and I used to go there. Oh, yes. It's...
We used to order pizza from there when I lived
on Alexandria.

Speaker 5 (01:02:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Hold on. Cut this. It's like Domino's. It's like... It's
not Domino's. It's... I mean, no, not Domino's, but like...
It's called... The P? P... Pichelli? Pitz.

Speaker 5 (01:03:00):
Pitz.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
I... Yeah, I know. Sorry, we can cut this out.
Why am I doing this? Palermos. Palermos. That's right. You
did it. Palermos. Leave it in. Palermos. Just like that.

Speaker 5 (01:03:14):
Also, when you go in and you're waiting for your table,
you can get a glass of like dollar boxed wine.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
It's like the best.

Speaker 5 (01:03:20):
So one time, once I went there the first time,
we're like, this place is amazing. Uh, and it was
a Friday night.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
So they had their, a guy with a.

Speaker 5 (01:03:28):
Um, what are they called? An accordion accordion walking around
singing at tables. And I go, oh my God, that
guy fucking was the entertainment at my brother's bar mitzvah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
No. I was like, is your name fucking Israel? Whatever
it was. And he was like freaking out too. And
it was, it was him. And I took a photo
of him and he's like, I remember your brother.

Speaker 5 (01:03:50):
No, you don't.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
Uh, that's amazing. No, you know what it is?

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
It's the not chain hometown restaurant, In Petaluma, it's Volpe's
where we go with my family. And half of it
is the original grocery store from the 20s.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
That they took the like counter out and put in
tables so that you're sitting in the old grocery store.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
I'm dying. It's really awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
And that's up the street from that hotel, Petaluma Hotel, I.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Want you to stay at. I'm going to come with
you to Petaluma one day.

Speaker 5 (01:04:21):
Oh, when we do our Sacramento show, we should stay
a night.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
We can stay at Laura's. Okay. Totally. Totally. But anyway, that's, that's,
so that's Vitello's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
It's, it's neighborhood-y. It's very Italian. Like it's, it's, if
you like kiss your fingers, you know, style Italian bullshit, that's,
it's there for you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Is that their saying?

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
That's actually painted on the sign. If you like kiss
your fingers style Italian bullshit, this is your jam, maroo. Um,
so this was the play. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
So let's just get into this fucking thing because it's
so insane.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
So we'll just talk first about Robert Blake. He's a
famous actor.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
And up until this point, he was kind of one
of those, he was like a Hollywood stalwart, I would say.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
He started, he was one of the kids on our gang. Oh, really? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
He was in the Little Rascals original, they called them
the film series.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
And it was basically, he grew up, he was born
in Nutley, New Jersey to a vaudeville family.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Oh, shit.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
His father was an actor and an alcoholic, abusive.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
An asshole, mom unfeeling.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
And the three siblings, they had a little like a
vaudeville show with the little kids called The Three Little Hillbillies.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Put them to work. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
So they he's and he described his childhood as feeling
like he was like a like a monkey with a
monkey grinder. Like he was just out there begging for
change around town in Nutley, New.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Jersey, which is horrifying. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:05:57):
Sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
I got all of the things I'm telling you right
now from a show that I couldn't love the title
of more, Rich and Acquitted. Oh my God. Spoiler alert. Well,
now we know. But I mean, yeah, but we knew
because this was a famous case anyway. Why didn't that
show in any Emmys?

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
I mean, it's so funny because it's when I when
I look this up on YouTube, there's like a whole
there's a whole realm of rich and acquitted. And and
they're real because I when I first started listening to it,
I was like, God, they're being real judgy about like
money and they keep talking about his money. And then
it's basically talking about how when you have money, the
entire justice system works totally differently. for you and the

(01:06:37):
whole approach and strategy to the justice system. So system,
I'm not drunk. So, so the three little hillbillies have, uh,
you know, minor success in Nutley, New Jersey and the
surrounding area. So then, but it's, it's the, um, mid thirties.

(01:06:57):
So because it's after the depression, the movie business is exploding.
Everyone's like, I've got, I do have 25 extra cents.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
I want to spend it on entertainment. I want things
to be fun.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
I want to go and like watch the Ziegfeld Follies
or whatever, something big in a, in a movie theater
and have a good time. So his father moves the
whole family out to Hollywood because he thinks he's going
to be the movie star.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Bad news. They're so poor. They sleep in the car.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
You know, it's really hard, but the father gets a
job in a hardware store and he, Mickey was his
name at the time. Mickey Gubitose was his original name.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
Is Robert Blake's name?

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Is Robert Blake's real name. He was born as Mickey Gubitose.
Mickey Gubitose, he's five years old when he gets the
job on the Our Gang series. And he starts as
an extra and they showed clips on the show and
he is the cutest. You see him, he's got this
little twinkle in his eye, but he's also like, he's
like a little tough guy and it's so cute. And

(01:08:00):
then with all, I mean, our gang, if you go back,
if you ever have a free day and you just
want to have some dumb fun, the our gang series
was the cutest, sweetest thing. And all those little kids
were really talented. Now there is extreme fucking racism because
it was the thirties.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
But the cool thing was, or I won't say cool,
but the thing that made it slightly different was that
Buckwheat was.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
One of their friends and hung around. Right, right. But,
you know, there's also, as anything from before 1995, it's,
you know, a different time. Anyhow, so he basically, he's
the one that makes it big.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
And he, from our gang, when that's over, he kind
of like, basically emancipates himself, runs away from home.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
He joins the army. He ends up marrying a woman
named Sondra Kerr. He has two kids with her, starts
this family. It looks like he's about to fade into
obscurity as like a character actor that like was a
child actor, you know? Yeah. Because people, it was really cool.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
They had interviews with like other little kids that had
been on that series that grew up to also be actors.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
So you could recognize them.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
As they were talking and they were talking about how
Robert Blake as a child actor was really good. He
was a really good actor. He was a really serious child, um,
Like he was there to like kill it.

Speaker 5 (01:09:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
Which is very taking it seriously. Exactly. Not just because
his parents wanted him to. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Not just because he would get the shit beaten out
of him when he went home. But, but it's just
that thing where, you know, like when those, when little
kids have it, that kind of like, why am I
looking at that kid?

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
There's six kids and that's the one that's caught my eye.
He was that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
So, um, right as he begins to fade into into
obscurity he gets that part in in cold blood whoa
and if you haven't seen the movie that robert blake
stars robert blake stars as you know one of the
two killers in in cold blood and he's so good
and it's really i only saw a clip of it
i've never seen the entire movie starts finish yeah but

(01:10:05):
it's really amazing i think i.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
Watched it but didn't realize it was him and you
don't watch it again.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Yeah because it's old it's like a thing you'd see
on amc yeah um But it's really good. Also, and
then it started making me think of how much I
loved the version with.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Toby, that British actor. Keith McGuire. Keith. Someone make that, please.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
That short British actor that's in... He's been in tons
of stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
He's so good. And he plays....

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
Truman Capote you remember that one and they go out
to start interviewing the families it shows how Truman Capote
wrote that book it's such a.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
Good movie what's his face? Philip Seymour Hoffman did one
version so there was one with Philip Seymour Hoffman and
there was another one with Sandra Bullock and Tobey Maguire
no British Tobey Stephen's going to find it once he's
done grooming his mustache David. Toby. Keith. Oh, Toby Jones.

(01:11:10):
Toby Jones. No. Don't know who that is. No. No. Yeah, yeah.
But he's such a good actor. He's in everything. Okay.
And that, oh, Infamous is the name of the biopic.

Speaker 3 (01:11:22):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
From 2006.

Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
But then there's also the Philip Seymour Hoffman one, which
is Give It a Look-See.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
It's good. I liked it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
I just love that story that, you know, somebody like,
Truman Capote was just such a insane one of a
kind beyond belief. That was a sidebar to beat all
sidebars because basically he's in cold blood. He comes back
and that that kind of brings his relevance back. And
then he gets the lead on the cop show Beretta.

Speaker 5 (01:11:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
Do you remember that show? I was too young.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
You were definitely too young because I was like it
was just in my consciousness that That was like such
a mid-70s show. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
But Beretta was the cop that had the parrot.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
And so if you remember, he was like the Italian-looking
cop with a white parrot.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
On his shoulder. What the fuck?

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
And he kind of had that Columbo-y thing where he
was like, yeah, man, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
Yeah. And every man, I guess, is what that impression
just was.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
But you can look up old episodes of Beretta. And
if only for the opening theme song.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
How's it go?

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
The full version is recorded by Sammy Davis Jr.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
Holy shit. And it's called Keep Your Eye on the Sparrow.
And it's like, keep your eye on the sparrow. You
have to look it up. It's happening. It's so like....

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
Disco 70s look at the like hardcore fucking like weird
solo bongos at the beginning they're like here we go
the streets keep your yes yeah yes you have it
holy shit maybe i do know it This show had everything.
And he ended up winning an Emmy for that role.
I think that show went on for four years, whatever.

(01:13:08):
So he basically then becomes a hit and he invests
his money wisely and he builds his wealth. And he
also became a fixture on The Tonight Show.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
And so once Beretta was over, he was still like.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
A big presence in Hollywood. And in the winter of
the year 2000, he.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
He goes to a jazz.

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
Club one night, and he meets a woman named Bonnie
Lee Bakley. And they hit it off immediately.

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
And she didn't know he was a celebrity.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
She actually had to call her sister and say, have
you ever heard of this name? Because he's saying he's famous.
But that was in Rich and Acquitted.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
Yes. But they really did hit it off.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
Then at the end of the night, no judgment, they
go out to his van and do it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
No. Like the alley behind the jazz club. What?

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
That's the first night they met. is, is they did that.
So then there, that is where their fate is sealed.
That's where in the alley, in the alley behind a
jazz club in the picture that they showed on rich
and acquitted. It was this purple van on these big old,
like jacked up wheels.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
Oh my God.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
It, it looks, it's like half Scooby-Doo half like monster
truck rally. You're like, where did you get this fucking car?
If you invested your money so goddamn wisely. All right.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
In 2000, too. This car is from 2000.

Speaker 5 (01:14:40):
Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
This is not the 70s we're talking about. It's not
Beretta anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:14:46):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
But he was truly keeping his eye on the Sparrow.
And keeping it real. Keeping it real in the alley.
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
So now let's switch over to this woman, this romance
that he's having with Bonnie Lee Bakley. So she was
born in 1956 in Morristown, New Jersey. She was also
poor growing up.

Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
They're both from New Jersey.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
Both from New Jersey, about 20 years apart or so.
She has a fascinating history. And this woman, if you
want to talk about somebody that got fucking maligned after
her own death, Bonnie Lee Bakley, we all heard every
single thing this woman ever did. She was not there

(01:15:29):
to defend herself or even just be a presence. Now,
she did a bunch of fucked up shit, and that
ended up getting proven in court. Before she met Robert Blake.
But as the cops said in Rich and Acquitted, doesn't
mean she deserved to get murdered.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
And it doesn't mean, you know, it doesn't mean she's
any less of a victim.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
I just remember when this case started, how often they
talked like on the radio and, you know, like Howard
Stern style talk shit on this woman.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
And apparently it was the lawyer's plan from the beginning.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
No. Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
They were ready once the indictment came or the charges
were filed.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
The lawyer had it all ready of like, well, here's
the victim. Wow. And here's her past. It's pretty intense.
So now.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
Going back to where she came from, she was married
for the first time and divorced when she was 15.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
Oh, honey. Then she dropped out of high school after
she had a marriage and a divorce. Sweetie. What I
estimate to be sophomore year. Yeah. Then she was like,
you know what? I'm past high school now. She's like,
when am I going to go back to high school?
When are we going to go to the spring formal?
I don't think so. I'm a divorcee. I'm above you all.

(01:16:53):
Oh my God. So she moves to New York City.
She wants to be a model. She's really beautiful. She
has great features.

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
She's kind of a like bottle blonde, but in that,
you know, she's like got this big open face. She
wants to be a model. She wants to be an actress.
And she goes right for those nudes. She's like, she just,
she's like, I'm ready to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
I want to do it. And let's do this thing. She....

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
Nothing pans out, which sometimes happens when you take Nance.
People are just like, yep, put him in the pile
with the other Nance.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
Sure. She ends up marrying her second husband was her
first cousin. No, don't do that. Yeah, she did it.
And she had three kids with him. No, don't do
that either. Yeah, yeah. Oh, no. They did that. Like
what around year is this? This is the, sorry. 70s-ish?
This is like the early 70s. Oh, and they're having
cousin kids.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
Cousin kids and kind of like a, I want to
be famous, but maybe I'll just do this instead.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
That's all fine, but don't marry your cousin. Right. Do
whatever the fuck you want. Don't marry your cousin. Here's
what's kind of cool.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
So she has all these pictures that she took trying
to get break into show business. Essentially, she's a visionary.
She starts a mail order, nude photo mailing like service.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
She puts personal ads in the back of like smut magazines.
That's like, hey, here's me. Do you want me to
send you my nude photos? Write to me here and
send me this amount of money.

Speaker 1 (01:18:22):
So smart. She starts fucking making bank on this business. Yes.
Good for her.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
So they're like, I love nudes. I was just reading
this whole magazine of nudes. I'd love more nudes.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
Yeah. From your home. Right. And she's like, I've got this.
So she.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
eventually makes so much money off of this business she
can buy several homes in the memphis area oh my
god yeah so she's she's she's supporting that family she's
like getting it done.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
We're in the wrong business i mean you have to
be willing to in some of the pictures because there's
exercise so Pass. Get on all fours with a cowboy
hat on and nothing else. Oh, no, I don't want
to do that. There was a lot of that kind
of stuff. Yeah, yeah, like campy shit.

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
It seemed very, it was like 70s porn had an
innocence about it, where it was kind of like, look
at me with no shirt on.

Speaker 5 (01:19:14):
That's how a lot of those pictures felt. Yeah, I've
seen Debbie Does Dallas.

Speaker 1 (01:19:17):
Have you? Yeah. Is it good? No. It's fun. Good storyline, though.
The best. Powerful ending. Spoiler alert, Debbie Does Dallas. Well,
no way. the whole nighttime soap opera. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
So now this is fascinating and it kind of shows
you the mindset, but also like, you know, she's from Tennessee.
She's living in Tennessee at this point, right. In the
Memphis area, Memphis, Tennessee, just double checking with myself. Um,
And she's trying, she still has that thing of like celebrity.

(01:19:52):
She's always been obsessed with celebrity ever since she was
a little kid.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
She wanted it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:56):
She wanted to be around it. She wanted to be
near it. So she gets this idea in her head.
I'm going to hook up with Jerry Lee Lewis.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
What?

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:20:04):
Cousins. He loves cousins. She loves cousins. That's right. In 1989.
So she's 33 years old. She's been married four times.
Holy shit. She's been arrested for drugs. Okay. Which it's
the seventies. It's going to happen. Or well now it's
the late eighties.

Speaker 4 (01:20:18):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
But the 70s have existed. So I'm giving her a pass,
I guess. The 80s were even worse. The 80s were
a bit nuts.

Speaker 2 (01:20:28):
But so it's 1989 is when she gets this Jerry
Lee Lewis plan. And she actually ends up hanging out
and like sidling up. And she's a gorgeous woman. So
like she eventually meets him. She gets to hang out
with him a little bit. I guess she ends up
hooking up with him. She gets pregnant and tells.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
Him it's her baby. It's his baby. Yeah. It's his baby.
She's like, look, this is my baby. I hope it's
her baby. And there's no way you can prove me wrong.
And Jerry Lou Lewis is like, sounds great. Shit, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. I keep hitting the mic. No, that's okay. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
So basically, Jerry Lou Lewis is like, why don't you
go ahead and take a paternity test for that baby?

Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
Did they have those in 89? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
They were very popular back then. And of course, he
was not the father.

Speaker 5 (01:21:13):
Oh, man.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
So that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
She basically... Takes her fourth husband and is like, we're
moving to California. Like, she just gets out. And I
should actually have you look this up because this is
the best.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
Bonnie Lee Bakley.

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
She takes all that money from her home nudes business
and buys herself a billboard.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
On Sunset.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
Strip.

Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
Like Angeline style? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
Angelina style, except for it's just on the right side.
It's her headshot, her 80s headshot. She's just like, and
then it just says Lee Bonnie. That was her stage name.
Lee Bonnie with a phone number underneath it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
Can I see this? I need to see this immediately.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
It's really, it's so 80s to me. It's just very like. Look,
here's an actress on a billboard. So, Angeline, if you're
not from L.A.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
Oh, yeah. But you've seen her.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
Like, if they're going to do the beginning of a
Hollywood movie, they will cut to an Angeline billboard. And
that's that lady with the insane breast implants.

Speaker 1 (01:22:07):
She's got the 80s. She looks like the rocker chick
who would hang out at, like, the Whiskey.

Speaker 5 (01:22:13):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
In the 80s, who would, like, hook up with metal dudes.
Metal dudes. She's got a big... kind of baby face,
tons of blonde hair. That was a.

Speaker 5 (01:22:24):
Staple of my childhood when we come to L.A., to
my grandma's house, Angeline had a billboard there.

Speaker 1 (01:22:30):
And I was just like, I want to be like
her when I grow up.

Speaker 5 (01:22:32):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
And I am. Look at you. Look at you. And
you saw yourself in that British tabloid. You've made it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:40):
Well, also, she was being bankrolled by some businessman. So
it was just kind of like, do you like this person?
Put them in your movie or TV show. And that's
kind of the way some people were trying to get famous.

Speaker 1 (01:22:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
Because nobody, because they hadn't figured out they can do
stand-up comedy yet.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
Uh, I'm going to see if I can find this
for you. Okay. There it is. That was on sunset. Oh, wow. Yeah.
It looks, it looks like a, um, a real estate photo.
It's very reasonable. Yeah. And it is very, very beautiful. Yeah. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
And it's just kind of, she's just basically like, if
you drive by this and you want to put me
in your thing, totally feel free.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
Okay. Plus I have home nudes. Yes. Cheekbones for days.
You know, she looks like somewhere between Meryl Streep and
Bonnie Raitt. Yeah. She has that look. Yeah. Like severe angles,
but pretty. Yeah. Okay. And a nice tall forehead. Maybe
a little Sigourney Weaver going on.

Speaker 2 (01:23:42):
There's a little Weaver in there. She starts writing. So
this was around the time where Christian Brando... Ended up
going to jail for involuntary manslaughter.

Speaker 1 (01:23:53):
Right. Marlon Brando's son.

Speaker 5 (01:23:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:23:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
He's going off the fucking rails. Yeah. That's a whole other.
I didn't even want to get into it because I'm like, oh,
we should save that one. Because that's a whole insane story. Totally.
These Hollywood murders.

Speaker 4 (01:24:09):
But.

Speaker 2 (01:24:10):
Um, so he's in jail. So she's one of those people.
She starts writing him letters in jail, sending him home,
homespun nudes.

Speaker 1 (01:24:18):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
He's like, this is great. Thank you so much. And
when he gets out of jail, they started having a relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Oh shit. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:27):
Um, so that's basically kind of just this on and
off thing. They, a lot of people in this special
say like they're seeing each other or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:24:34):
Like, uh huh. We get it. We know what that means.

Speaker 2 (01:24:37):
In a van in the alley behind the jazz club. Oh, Uh,
but then when she's seeing Christian Brando in real life,
that's when she meets Robert Blake.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
That's where that story overlaps.

Speaker 5 (01:24:49):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
So Bonnie kept flying back to Arkansas to pick up
her mail because apparently when she lived in, uh, she was,
she ended up getting arrested there. Because she had so
many fake IDs and so many fake Social Security cards
for all the different people that she pretended to be

(01:25:11):
when she had that home nudes business. She never gave
anybody her real name.

Speaker 5 (01:25:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
So she had a ton of fake ID, like fraudulent ID, basically.

Speaker 4 (01:25:20):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
She had gone home to pick up her mail because
she had been arrested for.

Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
Basically, she got pulled over. A cop said, let me
see your ID. She pulls out one. Fifteen other ones
fall out. The cop's like, what the fuck? She gets
arrested for fraud or whatever. So now she's on probation
in Arkansas. So she has to have an address there. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
So she keeps, she like stays in LA for a
little while, goes checks her billboard.

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
To see if there's any takers. And then she goes back.
She has to go back to Arkansas. She's been doing
that on and off.

Speaker 5 (01:25:52):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:25:53):
But once she hooks up with Robert Blake, so it's
April of 1989. Now she finds out she's pregnant.

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
So she tells both Christian Brando and Robert Blake that
they're the father.

Speaker 1 (01:26:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
And, uh, she's kind of doing this thing of like,
I'm not sure which one I want to marry. And
I'm still trying to pick because Robert Blake had a
ton of money and he was really stable and he
was actually interested in her and like into her Christian
Brando was young and good looking. And, you know, kind
of like the, you know, she was just trying to
decide like who she was going to start a life with.

(01:26:28):
So she picks Robert Blake, but then when she tells him,
so I'm pregnant and And blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:33):
He's just like, you lied to me. And he turns
on her. Robert Blake does?

Speaker 5 (01:26:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
He's super mean. They have.

Speaker 2 (01:26:40):
So, it also turns out, later on when this trial starts,
she recorded almost.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
Every single phone call she ever had. Shut up. So, they... Like,
when this case started... I vaguely remember this. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:26:57):
They had, they have phone calls of theirs. They have
phone calls of other people. She had like, she just
recorded all phone calls.

Speaker 1 (01:27:03):
Weird.

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
So they could go through all of them. And that's
when they start to find out her very checkered past.

Speaker 1 (01:27:09):
Okay. Like the actual proof of it. Um, But basically she,
she thinks she's going to do this kind of like, well,
I'm pregnant. And so let's hook up.

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):
And I finally made my decision of my two boyfriends
in my Hollywood life. And Robert Blake is like, no
fucking way. And is so mean and like demanding she
get an abortion, telling her he's going to make her
get an abortion, like all this stuff that she actually
ends up writing a letter to her lawyer saying, If
anything happens to me, Robert Blake is responsible for my death.

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
So she ends up going back to Arkansas or Memphis.
I think it was Memphis. And she has the baby.
It's this beautiful little girl. I mean, we've all seen
when the case came up, you saw a million pictures
of her.

Speaker 1 (01:27:56):
Her name's Rose. And she is. So cute.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
She looks like she's wearing like a little black hat
of hair and she's got like bright red lips. And
the second that Robert Blake saw the picture of her,
he called Bonnie Blake Bakley and said, get a paternity
test because that's my baby.

Speaker 1 (01:28:15):
And they did. And it proved that it was his baby.
So he knew. He knew. It looks exactly like him. Okay.
And especially when you see those like our gang clips
or whatever. It's she's.

Speaker 2 (01:28:26):
Looks just like him and she's really cute.

Speaker 1 (01:28:28):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
So he's basically says to Bonnie, move back to LA,
make a life with me. Like I want to, I like,
I love that baby. That's my baby. Let's make this work.
And so. she gets on a plane, even though she
knows she's breaking her parole or violating her parole. Uh,
she gets back on a plane, uh, to LA to,

(01:28:49):
to make this happen. Once she's in LA, Robert Blake
is like, give the baby to the nanny for the day.
Let's go out to lunch. And when they're out to lunch,
two cops walk up. And go, you're in violation of
your parole in Arkansas. You're under arrest.

Speaker 1 (01:29:04):
Stop it. And take her away. Robert Blake's like, don't
worry about it. I'll take care of the baby.

Speaker 2 (01:29:09):
We've got it covered. Those two cops bring her. They
don't arrest her. They bring her to the airport and
put her on a plane.

Speaker 1 (01:29:15):
No. Back to Arkansas. They tricked her? Yeah, they tricked her.
So it turned out those two guys weren't cops. No.
They were two friends of Robert Blake's. No.

Speaker 2 (01:29:24):
And the entire time it was his plan to get
custody of that little girl.

Speaker 1 (01:29:30):
Oh my God. So basically he's got the baby.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
His grown daughter is like keeping the baby at her house.
And he just basically sent her back and was like
trying to get rid of her. So she realizes the
whole thing was a scam. She's furious. She threatens to
file kidnapping charges against him. So they start to work
on a deal because she's like, I will, I will

(01:29:57):
like throw the.

Speaker 1 (01:29:57):
Book at you. Yeah. And the deal is, She agrees
to drop the charges if he'll marry her. Shut up. Uh-huh.
So they... That's the most romantic thing I've ever heard
in my life. This is.

Speaker 2 (01:30:10):
Remember the story you told about the guy writing the
girl's name on the thing?

Speaker 1 (01:30:14):
This is better. Sending it to a planet.

Speaker 3 (01:30:15):
This is better.

Speaker 1 (01:30:16):
Can you imagine if a man....

Speaker 5 (01:30:19):
So how'd you guys meet? So how'd you and Vince meet? Well,
I tricked him. I threatened him with kidnapping charges.

Speaker 2 (01:30:26):
He retaliated, of course. And then I made him sign
a piece of paper that said.

Speaker 1 (01:30:31):
But in the end, you were meant to be. He
didn't love me. And I'm never alone with him because
I'm scared of him. What the fuck? So crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:30:39):
So in this prenup, basically it was like she was
allowed to see the baby once a month and to
see Robert Blake once a month.

Speaker 1 (01:30:47):
That's the agreement. It was the exchange. He will marry
you if you sign this.

Speaker 5 (01:30:51):
But what does she get out of it then? If
she doesn't even get to be with her baby, she
didn't care about her baby.

Speaker 2 (01:30:55):
Well, she does, but she, there's nothing she can do
because she was in violation of parole and they've already
kind of got that. So it's the kind of the
only thing, only way she can see the baby still
be in a life and still get the thing she
ultimately has always wanted, which is To be married to
a celebrity.

Speaker 1 (01:31:11):
Oh, man. That feels... I'm going to move out of L.A.
right now. It's... This town is bad feelings wall to wall. Delore.
Good night. I mean, anyone who comes here has bad intentions.
Or is going to have a bad time. Right. Or
better get bad intentions or you're going to get screwed.
Screw before you get screwed. That's for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:34):
Um, yeah, just real good feeling place. It's, it's the
reason that people come here, try to do something and
then they're like, Oh no, you know what? I'm now
an evangelical Christian because I've, I've seen or a Scientologist
or I'm going to be so vegan that I try
to kill you. Like it's people just have to, they

(01:31:54):
have to reassess their entire life.

Speaker 5 (01:31:56):
They like need a thing to focus on.

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
Otherwise they'll focus on The horrible. How they're nothing or
they'll buy themselves a billboard. Like it's the kind of
town where you feel like you're so nothing for so
long that you're like, I'm just going to buy a billboard.

Speaker 1 (01:32:11):
It's the only way I can break through. It's just,
it's a nightmare. So anyway, I like it here though.
I mean, no, I love it. I'm pretty happy. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:32:18):
It's really gorgeous. We're having a great time. And guys,
we get to do a show at the ORFM in
two days.

Speaker 1 (01:32:22):
Oh my God. That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:32:24):
She signs this prenup that basically gives her almost nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:32:30):
Um, they marry in November of 2000. I wish I
could have been at that fucking ceremony. I bet there
was rose petals and love galore. Everywhere. Just like scattered.

Speaker 2 (01:32:43):
You just used the word galore. And I think I
might never stop using the word galore. It's so fun
to say.

Speaker 1 (01:32:50):
It's of that time. It feels of this era. Yes.
And I mean, like, you know, it's 2000, but like
this fucking time.

Speaker 2 (01:32:57):
Thing yeah six months later when her probation ends in
arkansas she officially moves to la she moves into the
guest house on his property not into his house her
husband's house she moves into the guest house and they
never share the same house they only ever set it
up like that so it's not a real yeah i

(01:33:18):
don't get it it's very strange so then this all
leads up now we are up to may 4th Of 2001.

Speaker 1 (01:33:25):
2001.

Speaker 2 (01:33:26):
When Robert Blake asks Bonnie if she would like to
go out to dinner.

Speaker 1 (01:33:30):
Do they ever go like on dates or anything like that?
Do we know? It doesn't sound like it. Yeah. No.
It sounds like a real bummer, man.

Speaker 2 (01:33:38):
It sounds like the most toxic relationship and the most
codependent bad intentions from every direction.

Speaker 1 (01:33:46):
Also, it's that thing of like, if you get together
with a guy.

Speaker 2 (01:33:51):
And then the only way you can see staying in
his life is tricking him into thinking he's fathered your child.
I'd go back to square one, go back to that
jazz bar and pick somebody else.

Speaker 1 (01:34:02):
Or start, you know, go back even further. Start it.
Go to therapy. Yeah. Start there. Ask some questions.

Speaker 5 (01:34:09):
So then when you get to the jazz bar, you
pick a good, kind person.

Speaker 1 (01:34:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
Maybe drop some of that. whatever happened to you in
junior high, um, drop, drop some of that. My first
marriage was when I was 15. See, see if you
can start a new, none of this is helping anybody, uh,
or constructive in any way.

Speaker 1 (01:34:31):
So they go to dinner. He says, I want to
take you to Vitello's. She's like, hell yes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:36):
I love dusty grape, fake grapes. I love red sauce.
I love melted mozzarella on, on, you know, pottery.

Speaker 1 (01:34:45):
Box, Chianti favorite. Uh, what's that wine? The one that's
so funny. Chablis. Oh, Vin Rose. That's my grandma used
to order. Oh my God. I'll have a Vin Rose. Uh,
she had a weird New York accent cause she was
from San Francisco. Um, okay. So they go to dinner. Um, there,

(01:35:07):
I just had a recurrent, uh, uh, recovered memory, there
used to be a stand-up show at Vitello's upstairs. Yeah,
this was like the late 90s.

Speaker 2 (01:35:17):
Those are the kind of things I would be like, sure,
I'll do that show, and I would show up and
I'd be like, I'm not doing this.

Speaker 1 (01:35:22):
I'm going to drink in the corner. You can have
the opera guy take my sack.

Speaker 2 (01:35:28):
Okay, so Robert Blake tells Bonnie that he's brought his
9mm pistol with him to dinner because of all the
unscrupulous business that she's involved in and for her safety.
And she's like, sounds great. I'll have the breadsticks.

Speaker 1 (01:35:44):
Yeah. And... She ordered the breadsticks. Just breadsticks. Sounds fucking great.
You know, when you're trying to be ladylike on a date. Yeah,
you're on a diet. I'll just get seven breadsticks. Can
I just have the breadsticks? And a pitcher of iced tea. God,
I love Vitellos. So they leave the restaurant at 924. And.

Speaker 2 (01:36:08):
Between 924 and 940, Bonnie Lee Bakley is shot in
Robert Blake's car in the parking lot of Vitello's. So
they get into the car, and then he goes, sorry,
I left my gun in the restaurant. I'll be right back,

(01:36:28):
and goes back into the restaurant.

Speaker 1 (01:36:30):
Mm-hmm. Um, to get his gun that he says he
left in the booth. Great.

Speaker 2 (01:36:34):
There are no witnesses from the restaurant that say he
went back into the restaurant. No one saw him go
in and get his gun. But while he, he claims
in his alibi is that when he, while she was
getting shot outside, he was inside getting his gun.

Speaker 1 (01:36:47):
But nobody saw him. No one saw him.

Speaker 2 (01:36:50):
But it's the perfect alibi because it's like, well, I
was inside with my gun.

Speaker 1 (01:36:53):
Just say you went inside to pee. Like, why did
he have to introduce the gun part?

Speaker 2 (01:36:57):
I guess to cover the fact that that's where his
gun was. Like, make it real clear that.

Speaker 5 (01:37:02):
Oh, he didn't even have his gun on him.

Speaker 1 (01:37:04):
Yeah, the gun wasn't anywhere but in the restaurant. But
then why didn't he actually do that and wave at
everyone with the gun? Hi, guys. So they all said
they saw him waving with the gun. You know what
I mean? Yeah, I don't know. Listen, I'm a master
fucking criminal. Can I mute it? I mean, would that
have helped? Be like, hey guys, you know, thanks again. Bye.
Oh shit, my wife just got shot. This one's for

(01:37:26):
the opera singer. Chew into the ceiling. I'm sorry, I'm
making light of this. No, no, no. I mean, what
we're making light of is the plan. The whole... What
we're making light of is life and how fucking stupid
it is.

Speaker 2 (01:37:38):
And also how Hollywood makes you think you can do
things you shouldn't and can't do.

Speaker 1 (01:37:43):
But it fucking.

Speaker 5 (01:37:45):
money and acquittal, the TV show has shown us anything.

Speaker 1 (01:37:50):
It's true. It is true. It's true. It's why people
want it so badly is because it gets you to
a place. I was right. Rich and acquitted.

Speaker 2 (01:37:58):
It gets you to a place where you are untouchable
and that's what everybody wants.

Speaker 1 (01:38:02):
That's real power. So I want to be touchable. Oh,
do you? I don't want to be untouchable. I think
you're silky soft and totally touchable. Thank you. Baby soft.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:38:13):
So At 940, Robert Blake rings the doorbell of a
neighbor of Vitello's.

Speaker 1 (01:38:21):
Why?

Speaker 2 (01:38:22):
Because he went there to call 9-1-1 to the neighbors
screaming going fucking berserk god um and the neighbor is
it's a guy named sean stanek it's his house he
goes there to his house to call 9-1-1 when he
leaves and the cops go to like go to the
crime scene he he He waits a little while.

Speaker 1 (01:38:43):
Then he calls police again.

Speaker 2 (01:38:44):
And he asks them to come and look through his
house because he thinks Robert Blake might have hid something
there while he was there. He says his behavior was
so strange and over the top and bizarre. And he
was screaming and being super crazy about my.

Speaker 1 (01:39:00):
Wife, my wife, my whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:39:02):
That he was like, I don't, I just want you
guys to come and look. I feel like he did
something and I didn't catch it, which I think is amazing.
And such a cool move where it's like, could I
just invite you guys.

Speaker 5 (01:39:12):
Back real quick? He didn't even try to look for
it himself. He was just like, something's fucking off and
I am not putting my fingerprints on it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:18):
No, get the authorities in here. Absolutely. ASAP. Well done,
Sean Stanek.

Speaker 2 (01:39:23):
So And other neighbors in the neighborhood were like, yeah,
he was just running around screaming and, like, just so
clearly presenting, like, I am freaking out. But a little
vaudevillian and over the top.

Speaker 5 (01:39:35):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:39:36):
Play it to the back. What do you guys call it? Yeah, exactly.
Play to the back row. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:39:42):
So police are like, well, this is strange because, again,
no witnesses actually saw him go into Vitello's the second time.

Speaker 1 (01:39:50):
And he also... Bonnie... had a cell.

Speaker 2 (01:39:54):
Phone and was always on her cell phone. She was like,
as we know for her recorded messages obsession, she was
a big phone person, always had her phone on her.
He could have taken her phone and called 911.

Speaker 1 (01:40:06):
Right there at the car and he didn't do it.

Speaker 4 (01:40:09):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:40:10):
He also, he was taken in for questioning.

Speaker 2 (01:40:14):
After like they all left the scene. So Bonnie, uh,
was shot twice.

Speaker 1 (01:40:19):
In the car. She was in the car. She was
sitting in the car in the passenger seat, shot through
the window. blood all in the car.

Speaker 2 (01:40:26):
She was taken, the ambulance came and she was taken
to the hospital, but she died at the hospital. Robert
Blake was taken in for questioning by the detectives, never
asked how she was.

Speaker 1 (01:40:38):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:40:40):
So they were like, yeah, the couple of these things
aren't adding up in a big way. They do the
gun residue on his hands test inconclusive. They end up,
which is a super brilliant idea, and like You know,
for 2000s, pretty advanced. There's a dumpster that the car
is parked right next to. And instead of going through

(01:41:02):
the dumpster there, they just take the entire dumpster back
to like the forensics lab or whatever and go through
every piece of garbage piece by piece.

Speaker 1 (01:41:09):
That's right. To find. Yeah. To find anything. And they
end up finding this dumpster.

Speaker 2 (01:41:16):
It's a 9mm, it's a very rare World War II
German officer's gun that's a P38 9mm pistol.

Speaker 1 (01:41:25):
No idea.

Speaker 2 (01:41:25):
But when they find it, it's covered in motor oil.
So they can't get any fingerprints off of it or
even do any ballistics on it.

Speaker 1 (01:41:34):
It's just completely ruined. Okay. they think intentionally. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:41:38):
I wonder if that was a fucking plot line in
an episode of Beretta. They should have fucking looked that up, man.

Speaker 1 (01:41:43):
That's a fucking genius idea. Can you, can, is double
jeopardy still a thing? Um, bring him back, bring him
on back. That is such a good idea.

Speaker 2 (01:41:52):
I wonder if anybody looked up all the episodes of
Beretta and just been like, this person did this, this person,
this was the plan.

Speaker 5 (01:41:59):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:42:00):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:42:00):
The next day, um, He lawyers up immediately, of course.
And the next day is when the lawyer starts releasing
the phone call tapes of Bonnie, starts trashing her. Like
he had a whole... basically kind of like a media
thing ready.

Speaker 1 (01:42:18):
That has nothing to do with it.

Speaker 2 (01:42:21):
Well, it's, it's what it is, is like they were
trying to build the case that, that she had enemies
all across the nation, that she had, she had conned
men all over the place. And there were lots of
people that, that were her enemy, not just Robert Blake.
So as bad and contentious and horrible and loveless and
nightmarish as this marriage was that she had just entered into,

(01:42:43):
she still, he wasn't, perhaps wasn't the only suspect that
should have been looked at.

Speaker 5 (01:42:49):
Right, right, right.

Speaker 1 (01:42:49):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:42:50):
Um, uh, she, and they find out that they start
like when they start listening to these phone calls, they
start finding these old men all around the country that they,
they thought she was his, that they thought she was
their wife.

Speaker 1 (01:43:06):
No, they, um, they thought they were married. They, she
was married to lots of people.

Speaker 2 (01:43:12):
She got married a lot and she would, uh, take
out life insurance policies on them.

Speaker 1 (01:43:18):
And she also had them change their will to include
her in. Stop it. Yeah, that happened. That was a
couple of them.

Speaker 2 (01:43:23):
Now this also, this was in rich and acquitted, but, uh,
this also was all the information that the lawyer is
just like anybody to listen to it.

Speaker 1 (01:43:33):
They'll tell that story.

Speaker 2 (01:43:34):
Um, one person theorized that she had been married over
25 times, but the provable amount, she.

Speaker 1 (01:43:41):
Was married nine times for sure. Oh my God. Yeah. Um, okay. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:43:46):
So, uh, so at some point, like in the, in
this process, Robert Blake fires that, uh, initial lawyer and
he hires Thomas Mesereau. You've seen him on tons of
true crime things. He has strange, like, uh, little Dutch
boy hair, uh, but gray.

Speaker 1 (01:44:06):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:44:07):
It makes very little sense. And he's the guy that
defended Mike Tyson and Michael Jackson. So you've seen him
on the news.

Speaker 1 (01:44:13):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:44:15):
And and so he hires that guy. Then he hires
media consultants to start the story spin and they get
him on Barbara Walters. So from jail in his orange
jumpsuit with his hair now turned white, he isn't dying
his hair black anymore like he had up until that time.

Speaker 1 (01:44:33):
That, that was like a big thing.

Speaker 2 (01:44:35):
And they say he did it for sympathy or whatever,
but from jail, she's like, did you kill your wife?

Speaker 1 (01:44:40):
And he's like, no, of course I didn't. He's like,
as if he's irritated with Barbara overdoing it a little for.

Speaker 2 (01:44:47):
Even if there's a, yeah, he's, there's a touch of
Lily gilding, but we can't tell if that's just how
he is because he's a child actor. He's never had
a normal life.

Speaker 5 (01:44:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:44:56):
Like you just, you just don't know. Um, he ends up, Eventually,
he ends up going free on a million dollars bail.

Speaker 1 (01:45:05):
A million dollars bail? Rich. Rich. Acquitted.

Speaker 3 (01:45:09):
Rich.

Speaker 1 (01:45:10):
And bailed. Is that their theme song? Rich, rich, rich,
and acquitted. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:45:18):
So then the trial starts on December 20th, 2004 at
good old fucking Ventura Courthouse.

Speaker 1 (01:45:26):
At our spot, Van Nuys. Van Nuys Courthouse. Fuck yeah.
That's how it all ties back in. Love it.

Speaker 2 (01:45:33):
Now, now that I'm thinking, I know the pretrial was
at the Van Nuys courthouse. I don't know if the
actual trial.

Speaker 1 (01:45:39):
Let's go with it. So.

Speaker 2 (01:45:42):
There's two different stuntmen who come testify that Robert Blake
solicited them to kill his wife months before the actual murder.
One of them they can prove he talked to on
the phone the morning of the murder. But in cross-examination,
he gets this. Mesereau ends up resigning from the case,

(01:46:04):
whatever that's called, leaving it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:06):
Quitting. Quitting, I guess. Quitting is the word I was
looking for.

Speaker 4 (01:46:10):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:46:11):
You're welcome. He leaves. He gets a, Blake gets a
third lawyer.

Speaker 5 (01:46:19):
Always a bad sign when you have to keep fucking getting...
Look at Ted Bundy, for example.

Speaker 1 (01:46:23):
It's not good. No. You're not an agreeable individual. They
hate you. Yeah, they hate your guts. They can't even... Like,
they're lawyers and they can't even fucking deal with you.
They can't deal.

Speaker 2 (01:46:31):
They don't have to be around you that much. And
they're just like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Yeah,
just do what I tell you and everything will be fine.

Speaker 1 (01:46:36):
No, no, no, no. I'm a rock and roll actor.
I'm smart, yeah. Okay, so the new.

Speaker 2 (01:46:43):
A lawyer is basically just like, well, I'm just going
to eviscerate any of these witnesses who even because there's
so little evidence that they have to like. So the
two stuntmen that come and.

Speaker 1 (01:46:53):
Say, oh, yeah, he asked us to kill his wife.

Speaker 2 (01:46:57):
One of them, they pull up a report that he
had recently been hospitalized for cocaine psychosis.

Speaker 1 (01:47:03):
Oh, no. What's that? It's just like you do so
much cocaine, you fucking lose your mind. How much cocaine?
I mean, I'd say a night's worth. Maybe two nights worth.

Speaker 3 (01:47:13):
All right.

Speaker 1 (01:47:14):
Interesting. It's like you just, you started and you don't stop.
Oh my God. And then you just fucking go berserk. Okay.
So that comes out on one guy.

Speaker 2 (01:47:21):
So then he just like, cause all of his credibility
is done and they basically do the same thing to
the second guy. They're just like, oh, you're both, you're
both these drug addicts. You're both these, you know, whoever
you'd say anything for money, you'd say anything.

Speaker 5 (01:47:33):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:47:34):
Um, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:47:36):
Basically, once they get rid of those two people, there's
no real evidence that's usable in court. So the jury
deliberates for 12 days on March 16th. 12 days?

Speaker 1 (01:47:48):
2005.

Speaker 2 (01:47:50):
Robert Blake was found not guilty of murder and not
guilty of one of the two counts of solicitation of murder.

Speaker 1 (01:47:55):
Straight up not guilty? Not even like?

Speaker 2 (01:47:58):
Not guilty.

Speaker 1 (01:47:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:47:59):
Sorry, go on.

Speaker 1 (01:48:00):
Not guilty. No, that's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:48:02):
Um, the, the other count of solicitation of the, of
the guy, the cocaine psychosis guy, um, that was dropped
when it was revealed that the jury was deadlocked 11
to 1 in favor of acquittal. So they were going
to go for it anyway. And they were just basically like,
forget that one. And he's just going free.

Speaker 1 (01:48:21):
Erase that one off the whiteboard. Yeah. They're just like, oh,
you're rich. You're acquitted. The Los Angeles, this is from Wikipedia.

Speaker 2 (01:48:28):
Los Angeles District Attorney Stephen Cooley called Blake, quote, a
miserable human being.

Speaker 1 (01:48:34):
And the jurors are, quote, incredibly stupid. Yeah. To fall
for the defense's claims.

Speaker 2 (01:48:41):
There's one woman in this special Rich and Acquitted where
she goes, of course I believe that Mr. Blake would
left his gun inside a restaurant. Haven't we all left
things inside restaurants at one time or another?

Speaker 5 (01:48:53):
Stop it.

Speaker 1 (01:48:54):
It's just like, lady, it's a fucking gun. Oh my God.
It's not your lipstick. It's not your fucking retainer that
you put in the cloth napkin. Ugh. Cost your parents $ 300.
They were so pissed. In Mimi's Cafe in Irvine. So basically,
the public consensus was that he hired someone to kill

(01:49:15):
his wife, and it's just unprovable. But there were lots
of character witnesses that were like, no, he's the best,
and he would never do that. And of course, there
was no evidence. Okay, go on. On the night of
his acquittal, several fans celebrated at Patello's. And Karen Kilgariff

(01:49:36):
was one of them. And I was up there singing
opera just like this. On November 18th, 2005. That's not opera.
It's not? What? Yes, it is. That was Verity.

Speaker 2 (01:49:48):
I love opera. Everything's straight out your nose in opera.
This is the Barber of Seville.

Speaker 1 (01:49:56):
But if you're singing about opera, it's opera. Yes. You
don't have to sing opera. That's right. This is a
musical about singing opera. There's no actual opera in it.
I'm out here and I'm wearing a Viking hat. More nasal.
Nasal or your, please. A Viking hat.

Speaker 2 (01:50:12):
Um, guys, on November 18th, 2005, Robert Blake was found
liable in a California.

Speaker 1 (01:50:18):
Civil court for her wrongful death. Civil court will always
fucking come at you.

Speaker 2 (01:50:23):
They'll come back and they'll be like, hey, we see
things a little bit different.

Speaker 1 (01:50:26):
We forgot to talk about the fucking OJ Simpson. No,
we'll talk about it next time. Go on. Okay. Um, so... Sorry. No, no,
that's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:50:35):
So since that time he had to file for bankruptcy,
he's in $ 3 million in debt, unpaid legal fees, as
well as state and federal taxes. He said that he
might return to acting because he has such financial problems now.

Speaker 1 (01:50:51):
Acting's like, we're good, bro. Yeah, we're like, we got
it covered, Beretta.

Speaker 4 (01:50:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:50:56):
We're going to hire the parrot instead.

Speaker 2 (01:50:59):
In 2010, the state of California filed a tax lien
against Blake for.

Speaker 5 (01:51:03):
$ 1, 100, 000.

Speaker 1 (01:51:04):
$ 1, 110, 000 in unpaid back taxes.

Speaker 3 (01:51:05):
Ouch.

Speaker 2 (01:51:05):
It hurts.

Speaker 1 (01:51:05):
Now, this is a very famous interview. He went on
July 16, 2012. He went on Piers Morgan.

Speaker 2 (01:51:22):
And he's wearing a sleeveless cowboy shirt and a cow
black cowboy shirt and then a cowboy hat.

Speaker 1 (01:51:28):
No, no, don't do that.

Speaker 2 (01:51:29):
And he is so crazy. You have to look it
up on YouTube. It's an experience to have. And he
just starts attacking Pierce Morgan for asking him any questions
at all. And Pierce Morgan's like, yeah, but this is
what we came here for is like the interview. And
he snaps and is super fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:51:47):
I want to watch it.

Speaker 2 (01:51:49):
You have to watch it. Uh, It's it's a it's
pretty legendary. He told the people that were writing.

Speaker 1 (01:51:57):
His autobiography that he hoped for one last great film role.

Speaker 2 (01:52:01):
But the but he was in Lost Highway, the David
Lynch movie in 1997 and that. To date is his.

Speaker 1 (01:52:10):
Last acting role. Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:52:12):
Um, in a March 2016, this is the, this is
one of the saddest endings, not saddest, but like one
of the most like, Oh, endings of any of the
murders that I've done in 2016, March, 2016, he told
a reporter that he had a private nurse and that
he was suffering, suffering from incontinence. And that my friend

(01:52:33):
is the, is this sad ending. Um, of the murder
of Bonnie Lee Bakley.

Speaker 1 (01:52:41):
Oh my God.

Speaker 2 (01:52:42):
And the rich acquitted experience of actor Robert Blake.

Speaker 1 (01:52:48):
That's right. Now he's 85. He's still alive. He's still alive.
I think he remarried for a third time. Someone married
him again? Of course. It's the fucking, this is a
town full of people who want their own billboard.

Speaker 5 (01:53:02):
Jesus.

Speaker 1 (01:53:03):
They'll do anything. Also, how can he get to be 85?

Speaker 5 (01:53:06):
But fucking Stephen Hawking is what? Was he like 73?

Speaker 1 (01:53:11):
Look. Such bullshit. I wish I could explain God's work.
I wish you could too. But it's a mystery. Yeah.
This is just how he does it.

Speaker 5 (01:53:20):
Next time we have to talk about the OJ, if
I did it, that they finally.

Speaker 1 (01:53:25):
Oh, thank you. That was amazing. That was... Oh, no, no.
You're welcome. Thank you. That was so.

Speaker 5 (01:53:31):
I don't want to call it fun, but it was
a wild ride. You know who he's always reminded me
of is the dude, the dad from The Staircase. Like.

Speaker 1 (01:53:41):
Just creepy in that way. Yes. Whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:53:44):
There's definitely an energy about him that you're, but, but
you can't tell.

Speaker 1 (01:53:48):
Actors are so creepy. They're so creepy. That it's like,
it's the, yeah. It's like, who are, is this the
real you or is there another real you? Are you acting? Yeah.
Do you ever know how to not be acting?

Speaker 5 (01:53:59):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:54:00):
And you just think feelings are weird masks to put
on so you can manipulate people.

Speaker 1 (01:54:05):
Right. Like instead of actually having a real time experience.
It's like, here's how feelings look like and sound like. Oh, Italy.
I love this place. My gun. Abundanza, everybody. Pizza for one.
Type of shit.

Speaker 5 (01:54:22):
Nick got a ringtone immediately. Steven, turn that into a
fucking ringtone. Um.

Speaker 1 (01:54:27):
But you're talking about, so there was the OJ Simpson,
like an If I Did It special? Right. It got
filmed in like 2006.

Speaker 5 (01:54:35):
And there was like a fucking public outcry. And everyone
was like, don't put it out. But so they finally did.
You'll have to watch it and we'll talk about it
next week.

Speaker 1 (01:54:44):
Okay, great. It's fucked up. He did it. Yeah. And
he admits to it in this fucking show. Whoa. It's
fucked up.

Speaker 4 (01:54:51):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:54:52):
So... two women who were one of us.

Speaker 5 (01:54:57):
They were murderinos. They were lovely women. And they were
murdered this week.

Speaker 2 (01:55:05):
Yeah, this is one of the most awful things. We've
been contacted and had a bunch of people tell us
about this. But Steven, just so you guys know, and
I think sometimes people aren't aware of this, like, Steven
is so good about he's on those message boards with
you guys. And he knows what everyone's doing. He reads
all those emails. So like he lets us know especially
when something this horrible happens.

Speaker 1 (01:55:27):
And so we found out that it was on Tuesday.
When was Monday? When was Tuesday? We found out this morning. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:55:38):
That two different murderinos in Seattle were murdered.

Speaker 1 (01:55:42):
Separately. So Lita Burns and Samantha Field were. We're both murdered.

Speaker 5 (01:55:48):
If you go to the My Favorite Murder Facebook page,
there's more information. We actually don't know a lot of
information ourselves, but we just wanted to acknowledge them. And
we're so heartbroken over it. And not just because, you know,
they're listening to the podcast, obviously, but because it's just
really heartbreaking. And we feel like they're friends of ours.

(01:56:09):
And it just feels really, it feels like we're this
club and we've lost everything. two members and it feels
horrible and in.

Speaker 2 (01:56:16):
Such a and such a terrible way like just we're
thinking about you guys because they were your friends and
you know this is this is your guys community that
you're building and so you're all connected and the idea
that something like that would happen to you in your
community is just heartbreaking so we're thinking about you and
and we're so sorry and we're so sorry to the

(01:56:36):
families and you know hopefully there'll be quick uh Like
for the one that is right now, they don't know
as much information. Hopefully that case will be solved quickly.
The other one is just an incredible tragedy. I mean,
they both are, but yeah, there's just so much loss
and we're so sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:57:01):
Okay, we're back here. And any updates? Just a couple.

Speaker 2 (01:57:04):
Of course, Quentin Tarantino's novelization of the film Once Upon
a Time in Hollywood is That movie was dedicated to
Robert Blake.

Speaker 1 (01:57:11):
And in the.

Speaker 2 (01:57:13):
Movie, Brad Pitt's character is accused of murdering his wife,
which is kind of interesting. Robert Blake did die of
heart disease on March 9th, 2023. He was 89 years old.
And Rose Lenore Blake is in her late 20s and
lives a quiet life now.

Speaker 1 (01:57:31):
All right, let's head back in for Good Things of
the Week. Uh, okay.

Speaker 5 (01:57:42):
So my positive thing this week, and I just want
to give this shout out to this, this movie that
I can put on in the background and Vince and
I put it on at night when we get home
from going out and we just want to watch something
and it's just, you could start it at any point
and it just makes me so happy. It's called Los
Angeles Plays Itself.

Speaker 1 (01:58:01):
Oh. Have you seen it? No. It's so good.

Speaker 5 (01:58:03):
It's a documentary about Los Angeles in the movies.

Speaker 1 (01:58:07):
Oh.

Speaker 5 (01:58:08):
And it shows all the overtones. old school movies and
all the places and things in Los Angeles in the background,
like Rebel Without a Cause, all these places. And it's
just this really lovely, lovely thing to put on as
a nice distraction.

Speaker 1 (01:58:22):
And you can Just watch it and enjoy yourself. I
would love to see that. It's so good. It's really funny.

Speaker 2 (01:58:28):
After all the shit we've been saying, that's like the
perfect thing to say.

Speaker 1 (01:58:32):
It's like, you know what? But it actually is really pretty.
The Los Angeles thing itself. Yeah. I thought Beretta's on there.
I mean, there's, I think he was in New York. Well,
never mind. Well, that's what they show that too.

Speaker 5 (01:58:43):
It's like they say this is New York, but here's
Los Angeles downtown. I think the Orpheum's in there as well.

Speaker 1 (01:58:48):
Oh, that's right.

Speaker 5 (01:58:49):
They show downtown LA and what it's pretending to be
or when they're, you know, to live and die in
LA and.

Speaker 1 (01:58:54):
What parts of LA it is. And it's narrated by
this guy who's got like the most soothing, lovely, monotone voice. Oh.
It's such a good fucking, it's such a good... It's
just like a good living creature that I really like. Amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:59:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:59:06):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:59:07):
I love to live and die in LA is a
good movie. Well, mine's also kind of on the same.
It was making me laugh. There were people that were
giving us suggestions for what this segment should be called.
And it was making me laugh. People had some hilarious suggestions.
But we should think of an actual.

Speaker 1 (01:59:22):
Name for it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:59:25):
Because people were trying to do puns, of course, which, God. God,
people love puns. But I don't think we have it yet.
Unless you can think of one while I say this one.

Speaker 1 (01:59:35):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:59:35):
I just, last night I watched my, we all got
to write two episodes on baskets this season.

Speaker 1 (01:59:42):
And my second one was on last night. Oh my God.

Speaker 2 (01:59:45):
And it made me laugh. Now, look, I mean, part
of the reason it makes me laugh is because Zach
and Martha and Louie They riff so much.

Speaker 1 (01:59:57):
So we get credit for stuff that we did not write.
And it's awesome.

Speaker 2 (02:00:01):
I mean, like watching Zach riff and knowing that the
things like he just he just writes the best joke.

Speaker 1 (02:00:07):
So I remember when I can't remember what the actual
joke is supposed to be, but. Christine Baskets says to Chip, she's.

Speaker 2 (02:00:14):
Like, Chip, it's not a competition. And he goes, yes,
it is, mother. Everything is. And it made me laugh
so hard. And that was totally Zach's joke. But there
were things in it that were.

Speaker 1 (02:00:27):
Um, so fun to, to make up.

Speaker 2 (02:00:30):
And I remember when I was making them up thinking,
I think this is going to work like having that
feeling and it, but it's so hard to believe in
that when you're just making something up and writing it
on a page. And, you know, of course I always
talk about how much I love Jonathan Kreisel is my
boss on that show and the director and the visionary
of that show and the one that makes it work.

(02:00:52):
It's his doing, but he was like, no, no, no,
this is exactly how it should be. And this ending
scene where they're all in this Halloween store, having a
fight as a family is just like, I was laughing
at my own writing, which usually anything I watch of
my own gives me great pain. It gives me lots
of like retroactive shame and regret. And I should have
done this better. And I should have done this. And

(02:01:13):
I just purely enjoyed myself.

Speaker 1 (02:01:15):
I love that. It was really fun.

Speaker 2 (02:01:17):
And I don't know, those guys are just, we get,
it's just the coolest thing to be a part of.

Speaker 1 (02:01:23):
So that was exciting. That's awesome. Yeah. I love that. Wait,
I know what we'll call it. Bragging corner. How's that?
How about the positive place? Positive vibes. Positive vibes. Something
about party vibes. Party vibes. Yep. My favorite party vibes. Yeah. Hashtag.

(02:01:47):
I think party vibes. What do you think? This gives
me party vibes? Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:01:52):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (02:01:53):
I'm going to be sarcastic every time I say it
if it's party vibes.

Speaker 1 (02:01:56):
Well, because it's stupid.

Speaker 5 (02:01:57):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:01:58):
Like, I mean it as a joke. No, no, I know. No.
I mean, I like party vibes. No, we'll keep, let's
keep workshopping that. You know what? Let's put a pin
in it and let's fucking workshop it. Let's do party
vibes is best of right now. There's all these people
that are like, I tweeted something better on Twitter. Yeah,
you did. You're right. No, you're absolutely right about your

(02:02:19):
own ideas. Yeah. Don't ever listen to anybody else's outside influence.
Don't bother. Party Vibes is what it is until we
think of a better idea. Okay, and we'll get there.
That's the one to beat. Yeah. Okay, we're back.

Speaker 2 (02:02:34):
So this episode was originally entitled... I love it.

Speaker 1 (02:02:39):
Galore, galore.

Speaker 2 (02:02:40):
What I love is that it's such a weird word
and I used it twice.

Speaker 1 (02:02:44):
And then you're just like, why are you using it?

Speaker 3 (02:02:47):
Galore all the time but i like that it's the
word galore galore like.

Speaker 1 (02:02:51):
It's galore galore it's so good.

Speaker 3 (02:02:54):
So bad but if we were naming it today maybe
naming it something else maybe we would call it the
furthest darkest space of course.

Speaker 1 (02:03:04):
That's good don't embarrass me oh.

Speaker 3 (02:03:07):
The altar of doubt i mean i still think about
that all the time.

Speaker 2 (02:03:10):
Altar of doubt that's right also the british toby Because
Toby Jones is always relevant on this show and in
our lives.

Speaker 1 (02:03:18):
And then, of course, hire the parrot instead. Just wisdom
from this show. Truly.

Speaker 2 (02:03:25):
Look, the benefit of us just talking without thinking is that,
you know, that's how a lot of good podcasting is made.

Speaker 1 (02:03:32):
Right.

Speaker 3 (02:03:34):
You don't realize the shit you say until you get
the titles read back to you at the end of
the episode.

Speaker 1 (02:03:38):
And you're like, I said that? What? How are we?

Speaker 2 (02:03:41):
Doing this for this long it makes no sense but
it's very fun.

Speaker 3 (02:03:46):
Right and in the meantime let's go back to 2018
to say goodbye from there.

Speaker 5 (02:03:54):
Gosh thanks for listening we we love this community And
we love being part of it. And we're so fucking grateful.

Speaker 1 (02:04:02):
Yeah, we really are. For you guys listening and for
what's happened to our life.

Speaker 5 (02:04:07):
We don't talk about it because, like we said, we're
fucking terrified that it's going to all fall apart the
minute we acknowledge it.

Speaker 1 (02:04:15):
And we say it at live shows. We don't really
say it on recorded episodes. That's true. How insanely incredible.

Speaker 5 (02:04:22):
I don't I want to say my life has become
because of this podcast.

Speaker 1 (02:04:26):
It's true.

Speaker 5 (02:04:26):
In a way that I think I fell through a
wormhole when I was a kid and ended up here
because there's just no way that this is real.

Speaker 1 (02:04:35):
It's so true. It's so funny to say that because
I was today was my therapy today. Therapy day.

Speaker 2 (02:04:41):
Uh, so where, which is when I get especially.

Speaker 1 (02:04:43):
Like raw and kind of like, what am I saying?

Speaker 2 (02:04:46):
Uh, but I did have a moment where I told
my therapist, it really does feel like everything has come together.
It's like, it's that feeling like at the end of
a prayer for Owen Meany, where all of a sudden
he understands why he was doing that trick shot with
his friend the whole time. Cause then they're in the
war together or whatever. It had that feeling of like,
the stuff that we, you and I have been doing
lately where I'm like, Oh, I got it. I've been

(02:05:08):
trained for this. I kind of know what I'm doing here.
And it finally makes sense.

Speaker 1 (02:05:13):
Like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:05:14):
It's thank, what we're saying is thank you. Thank you
guys for listening. Thanks for being a part of it. It's,
we're having the best time. We're glad you guys are
having the best time. Fucking hooray. We're so grateful.

Speaker 1 (02:05:27):
And, and stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Bye. Bye. Elvis,
want a cookie? Oh, yeah. You want a cookie? Good boy.
You want a cookie? You got it. I know, but
I think there's more. There's a better one. I'm sorry.
Just keep saying it. I'm such a stage mom.

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Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 112: Galore Galore!

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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