January 27, 2026 • 37 mins
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon is a physician, bestselling author, and the force behind muscle-centric medicine. But before she trained Navy SEALs and reshaped how we think about aging, she was the big sister carrying her sibling’s backpack up a mountain – literally.
In this energizing and deeply personal episode, Gabrielle joins hosts Martin Luther King III, Arndrea Waters King, Marc Kielburger, and Craig Kielburger, alongside her plus one – sister sister Maddy Novich – to challenge everything we’ve been taught about strength, health, and legacy.
They break down how strength isn’t just physical; it’s about showing up, taking ownership, and choosing what matters, even when it’s hard.
They share:
- Why muscle is the true organ of longevity and how to train it at any age
- The daily habits that support lasting health
- How relationships thrive when we recognize the season we’re in – and align accordingly
Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode!
Dr. Lyon’s THE FOREVER STRONG PLAYBOOK: https://drgabriellelyon.com/playbook/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Essentially, the idea of dumb jock is totally wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
The stronger you are, the faster you think.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Doctor Gabrielle Lyon is a Board certified physician, fellowship trained
in nutritional sciences and geriatrics, and the New York Times
best selling author of Forever Strong.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
If we choose the easy route now, life is going
to be harder, But if you choose the harder now,
life will be easier.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
As the creator of muscle centered medicine, she's a powerful
voice challenging everything we've been told about aging, fitness, and
what it means to be strong.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
In your book, you talk about the turning point for
you as a doctor.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
In that moment, I realized that it wasn't an obesity
of it him, that it really was an issue of
muscle and skeletal muscle is an organ of longevity.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Alongside her sister Mattie, they share the physical and mental
secrets that keep them both thriving.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
So health the moments has been something part of my
whole life, but what I learned specifically from Gabrielle was
actually life changing.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Your host Martin Luther King the Third, Andrea Waters, King,
Mark Kilberger, and Craig Kilberger for a transformative conversation about
building strength.
Speaker 6 (01:08):
In your body, your mind, and the relationships that matter most.
Speaker 7 (01:11):
What are three of the biggest myths that you would
like people to stop believe?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, the first one, you, Sailier.
Speaker 7 (01:22):
Welcome to my legacy. Today's guests is changing how millions
think about aging, health and what it means to be
truly strong. Gabrielle Lyon has trained Navy seals, Green Berets,
and NASCAR drivers, and now she's helping everyday people discover
what it means to be strong at any age. Gabrielle,
we are honored to have you here. And as we
(01:44):
know so well on this show, no one walks their
path alone. Our guests always bring along someone who has
witnessed their journey firsthand. Gabrielle, would you do us the
honor of introducing your plus one?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So my plus one is my sister, doctor Madeleine Novich,
who is a PhD in criminology and a professor and
really just has been with me through this entire journey
and our whole lives. I couldn't have done it without her.
Speaker 7 (02:13):
Who is the elder of the team. I always ask
I'm the eldest sister.
Speaker 8 (02:18):
So there you go, Maddie. You knew Gabrielle long before
the world did. Can you share a story from your
childhood that gives us a glimpse of the doctor she'd become.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Absolutely, So I'm going to take you on a journey
back to our childhood when it was the two of
us and we went camping with our father, Nathan Resmeck,
And this was something that we did as kids all
the time, and he would take us on these epic hikes.
Right now, I must have been four or five, and
(02:50):
my sister's a little bit older, and he would take
us on these, you know, ten mile hikes and load
up these backpacks that we were then carrying to our
remote cabin that we were then sleeping in our ten
and you know, the concept of legacy of strength in
our family has been there since the beginning, and so
we would do these long hikes and I just remember
(03:10):
crying because my backpack was so heavy. It wasn't heavy,
of course, but it was heavy to me. And I
remember us stopping multiple times along these hikes and unloading
my backpack into my dad's, into our dad's backpack, and
into my sister's backpack and she would carry like extra
poundage up these ten fifteen mile hikes because that's just
(03:31):
what she did, right. It was no complaining, it was
just this is what sisters do for each other.
Speaker 6 (03:36):
And you know, that was just one of many examples.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
But she is she will take the weight for you,
she will carry it for you, and she will she
won't make fun of you or you know, put you
down because you can't carry the weight. She's just there
as like a supporting and a strong figure. And that
was just we had many of those journeys and she
was very used to taking on all the extra weight
for me.
Speaker 6 (03:58):
So it was it was.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Wonderful childhood to grow up with as this are like, Gabrielle.
Speaker 7 (04:03):
I love that. So you all were rocking before it
became a thing like the weighted backpacks.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Oh yeah, so we started rocking again. We had a
very physical childhood. By the time I was five, I
was doing ten mile bike rides with my dad, you know.
And it's really interesting because in this space right now,
people will say, well, you know, I see that your
kids train, and I think to myself, and you know,
(04:31):
I say this often, we're not raising children, We're raising adults.
And the better habits we can instill in them now,
then they don't have to spend a lifetime trying to
break old ones, old poor ones. So it really is
critical as just we think about our legacy in the
next generation, that this language of strength and this language
(04:52):
of muscle as health becomes secondary.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
You know, I love that, Gabrielle. I'm going to give
it should it your new book, the Forever Strong Playbook,
in anticipation this wonderful interview, And just because I've been
a fan of your work, I have read Forever Strong
and loved it, and every time I went back to
the book, I would have amazing things that I would learn.
And also my lovely wife, Roxanne, who's a yogi, takes
(05:18):
her health very seriously, but not necessarily her muscle health
very seriously. So we've learned a lot in the process
from you. And in your book you talk about the
turning point for you as a doctor seeing the system
go so wrong, seeing patients come to you with chronic fatigue,
ob city, chronic disease and take us back. And you
(05:39):
talk a little bit of this in the book where
you said, oh my goodness, this system is not set
up for success. I need to look at this differently.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Well, I'm excited to take you through this story. And
I first want to go on record of saying that
studying geriatrics was not my first choice. I had studied
nutritional sciences and that had always been my first love,
and I was trained by one of the wildly experts
in protein metabolism. After going through residency, my mentor, doctor
Donald Leahman, said, listen, if you want to make the
(06:08):
impact that I know that you can in this world,
you have to go back to do a fellowship. I'm like, okay, great,
I would love to study nutrition. But the deal is,
as a physician, to go back and do a fellowship,
you must pick a medical specialty for funding for that research.
And so what was available to me was geriatrics, and that,
(06:32):
unbeknownst to me, really changed the trajectory of my life.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Here.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I was thinking all about health and wellness, really kind
of ignoring that aging process. And even because it's scary,
mortality is scary to think about it. I think, especially
for us in this culture, it's not you know, we
don't face our mortality frequently.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
You know, it's something that happens out there.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And I was working on a project that was looking
at the intersection between body composition and brain fund That
was my fellowship project as I was doing this fellowship
in nutritional sciences and geriatrics. And one of the participants
she was a woman in her mid fifties, and I
just I fell in love with her. She was awesome,
(07:14):
she had three kids, she had always put herself last,
She had cycled through the same twenty to thirty pounds
her entire life. And I imaged her brain because part
of the study was working and looking at brain function,
and her brain looked like the beginning of an Alzheimer's.
Speaker 7 (07:32):
Brain in fifties.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
In her fifties, I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Number One, because this woman had done everything that everyone
had told her to do from the medical community. And
number Two, when I went to my mentors and teachers
and fellow colleagues, they said, well, this is just the
way that it is. These are the recommendations, and this
is the outcome. You know, I think that those of
us that have the ability to do something have a responsibility.
(07:57):
And I promised I would never let that happen again.
That you know, as we've been chasing this obesity epidemic
that we've been chasing for the last fifty plus years.
In that moment, I realized that it wasn't an obesity epidemic,
that it really was an issue of muscle, and skeletal
muscle is the organ of longevity. Had she pivoted, had
(08:18):
we pivoted, had she been taught about this organ system,
she would not be in the position that she was
in in that moment. And frankly, if I can change listen,
I'd love to change a million lives, But if I
can change one, five, give me five, then I think
that we can begin to really reorient ourselves to the
(08:42):
power of skeletal muscle.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Well, you've certainly changed millions of lives, and your books
are so well known and your theories are so well known,
but just break it down for us. At the end
of the day. You talk very much about glucose, insulin,
metabolic health and the interrelationship between those three. Just just
pretend somebody doesn't owe your work and know most people do,
(09:03):
but just explain that intersectionality for us.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Sure, Well, first of all, muscle, skeletal muscle, this system.
We've forever thought about it as performance and exercise and strength,
and it is all of those things, but it's so
much more skeletal muscle and the dermatile just don't like
me for this. It is the largest organ system in
the body. It's not skin, it's muscle. It makes up
(09:28):
forty percent or more of an individual. Listen, if you
are more jacked like my husband, and might make up
fifty percent.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
But the performance.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Aspect, if we take that off the table, what is
skeletal muscle's role in the foundation of health and wellness?
But also imagine its role in chronic disease. So, skeletal
muscle at forty percent your body weight, if it becomes inflamed,
Now you have this tissue that is so massive that
is inflamed and disregulated, which happens. It also becomes weaker,
(10:01):
It also becomes less efficient, and it also becomes less
capable at utilizing all of the substrates and fuel that
we need. It's less flexible and skeletal muscle. When we
think about insulin resistance. So what are the big diseases.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
We're worried about.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Alzheimer's which is tied through diabetes in the brain, cardiovascular disease,
diabetes and obesity, let's just say, and cancer.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So we're worried about these diseases.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
And cancer will leave out because it's very complex, but
we do know that there's a metabolic component and having
obesity put to you at risk. So if we think
about skeletal muscle as this primary sink, these chronic diseases
are driven by metabolic dysregulation, So elevated levels of glucose,
(10:48):
elevated levels of insulin, elevated levels of triglycerides. Skeletal muscle
is your primary sink. If you A don't have enough
or B the muscle is not healthy and able to
receive these nutrients, then instead of it looking like a filet,
it looks like a marbled steak. And this this is
(11:11):
where these chronic diseases begin. So obesity is another symptom
of unhealthy muscle.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
First, you know, Gabrielle, you just mentioned something that was
important in terms of Alzheimer's. I remember you wrote in
the book that Alzheimer's is diabetes of the brain. I
thought that was a fascinating statement. Can you just help
us understand that part?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Well, there are multiple kinds of dementia, but Alzheimer's dementia
the majority, easily two thirds of Alzheimer's dementia is related
to metabolism and really metabolic dysfunction. And to take it
a step further, what I mean by that is we've
all heard about insulin resistance in our body.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Insulin is a hormone.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
It's a peptide release from the pancreas that helps remove
glucose carbohydrates from the bloodstream into tissues. Alzheimer's is in
part type three diabetes of the brain, so it's insulin
resistance in the brain. What is good for muscle is
good for brain. And I want to touch on this
(12:13):
because this is important. There is a brain muscle access
There is a brain muscle connection number one. What is
good for muscle, both nutritionally and body composition wise, is
good for brain. When you contract skeletal muscle, because it
is an organ system, it secretes hormone peptide hormones called myokines.
(12:36):
It secretes little molecules that go to the brain that
affect memory, neurogenesis, brain volume. Essentially, the idea of dumb
jock is totally wrong. The stronger you are, the greater
your working memory. The stronger you are, the greater your
executive function, which is thinking with numbers. The faster you move,
(12:59):
the faster you think. There is this relationship, this access,
between what we do with our body and the input
that it has on and in our brain. So there's
a metabolic component of Alzheimer's, which is critical type three
diabetes of the brain. In addition, the majority of individuals
do not train, do not do resistance training, and are
(13:21):
not meeting the minimum training recommendations. When you contract this
organ system, it directly affects the brain.
Speaker 7 (13:30):
Let me ask you this because there are many ways
of strength training, right and if you are you don't
have access to a gym, or if you're traveling a
lot like the three of us do, so you're not
taking dumbills on the road. There are you know, exercise bands.
Do you believe body weight? What are different forms of
strength training other than what we kind of think about,
(13:53):
you know, lugging one hundred pounds dumb bills?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I travel all the time, and what I do is
I have a travel bag that has a handful of
items in there, and I'm going to share with you
what they are. Number One, resistance bands. I carry a
bunch of resistance bands. I'm going to say a bunch
I carry right now, I'm down to two. I've kind
of streamlined. There was five for a while and then
(14:16):
maybe there was a little more. But now I'm down
to two resistance bands, one with a handle, one without. YEP,
it also travel with little devices, so number one you
could get away with that.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
That simply would be enough.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
One resistance span, one with a handle, and then one
I use a round one for leg workout or shoulder workout,
any any of those kinds of.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Exercises.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
If someone doesn't want to do that, or wants to
do that and wants to even take it up a notch,
you could travel with blood flow restriction, bluetooth blood flow restriction.
There are these little bands. I have them in my
bag with her about this big So there's only one
way not to do it, but there's a million different
ways to do it, right.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
The only thing wrong way to do is to not
do to not do it.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
I also like to interject that you will find my
sister doing push up challenges.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
With just thinking that any airport no problem, and the.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
Airport you will do and challenging anybody who will who.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
Is interesting, you will push up challenge.
Speaker 7 (15:19):
There you go, so you can do body weight as well.
You incorporate.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, and that's what I cover in the playbook because
what the data suggests is something called the VILPA. So
it's vigorous intermittent physical activity throughout the day. And what
that is is you could every hour get up and
do ten air squads pretty fast.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
You know, it's doing something to get your heart rate up.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
We think about training as this entity over here in
a discrete moment of time. That's not how we have
to train, right, So if the concept is we have
to contract skeletal muscle tissue, then what we do as
opposed to you know, this is the only time I'm
going to move during this train session, we begin to
integrate it into our life.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Coming up, three myths about your body that doctor Gabrielle
Lyon says are holding people back and what actually matters instead.
Speaker 7 (16:15):
Now back to my legacy, Mattie.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
I like to bring you to the conversation. You're talking
about the push up challenges, which I just found so endearing,
But you also recently posted a video of the two
of you working out together with a message I'm in
a quote here. Being strong is a deeply embedded value
we share. So just tell us a little bit about
that perspective, and what are some of the things that
you've learned from Gabrielle's work that impacts you and your
(16:38):
health longevity on your side?
Speaker 5 (16:40):
Absolutely, well, I'll start. I have done physical fitness my
whole life. Martial arts was my sport of trade.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And she's a black belt. By the way, he's a block.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I only had a brown belt before I started to Also,
she was a ranked runner.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Like in the.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Relay, she got off the couch. Here's the thing, So
I I'm not a natural athlete. This girl, she's like,
you know, chill and out, gets off the couch and
I don't know, you got like second in state.
Speaker 8 (17:14):
Oh, that's.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Just I just wanted it was.
Speaker 6 (17:17):
A sprinter, that's true. And I did do martial arts
my whole life.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
I started with jiu jitsu and kickboxing and then competed
in Korea and ended up in a mixed martial arts school.
So so health and wellness has been something part of
my whole life. But what I learned specifically from Gabrielle
was actually life changing. And there's a couple of things
I want to talk about. One I think is just
practical daily applications that anybody can do. One thing that
(17:42):
I learned is that you should start your day off
with thirty grams of protein, right, Like I normally wouldn't
eat and I'm naturally not inclined to eat until about
eleven AM. And learning from Gabrielle that was a mistake.
I should wake up and within two hours of waking up,
I should prime my body with protein so that I
am sting up my muscles for success.
Speaker 7 (18:01):
Right.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
And so that's one thing I've learned from her. Second
is any there is no excuse not to work out.
The only you know, the only mistake is not doing it.
And so anytime my sister and I are traveling together,
we always prioritize working out together. I spend the summers abroad,
and this past summer, my husband and I joined gyms
in you know, four different cities in Europe, just because
(18:24):
it's such a priority, and that I think was really
you know, it was a priority to begin with. But
learning to focus on muscle strength was something that I
learned specifically from Gabrielle.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Right, it's about resistance.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
I was doing a peloton, and I know nothing wrong
with doing a peloton, right, and spending all the time,
which I love but at the same time, it wasn't
It wasn't enough for muscle strength. So that was another
thing that I learned. It's just to really focus on
building muscle, primming my body with protein, hitting daily protein goals.
Speaker 6 (18:57):
Those are very achievable for most people. I think.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
I love that. That's amazing.
Speaker 8 (19:01):
So you're both married and have talked about your wonderful partners. Maddie.
You've shared that you and your husband have regular alignment meetings.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
Yes, honey, yes, honey.
Speaker 8 (19:16):
Can you talk about how it keeps you connected?
Speaker 6 (19:19):
Absolutely?
Speaker 5 (19:20):
So having a strong partner is so critical.
Speaker 6 (19:25):
To my experience. And I have an amazing partner.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
And we don't really argue very much because we have
set up this process of doing alignment meetings where we
feel when we when we are misaligned.
Speaker 6 (19:37):
Right, So, if we have a different goal or.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
We have something we need to accomplish, we will sit
down over coffee and do what's called DDC.
Speaker 6 (19:45):
We debate the side commit to whatever it is.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
And these are interesting takeaways that my husband learned being
in sort of corporate I mean he's in tech, he's
in a tech startup, but he is in a great
tech startup, and they were very thoughtful about how they
would teach the different players to work together, and he
brought those home to our household and said, Okay, hey,
we're having a misalignment on how you're feeling.
Speaker 6 (20:08):
Right, you feel like you're taking on more of the parenting.
I don't want you to feel that way.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Let's sit down, have an alignment meeting, and let's go
over which tasks I can do, which tasks you want
to do, and something actually I learned from my sister,
which is the idea to lean into your strengths and
outsource your weaknesses, right, And so we would go through
our strengths and weaknesses and take on different strategies so
that we were aligned.
Speaker 6 (20:32):
So no one felt like they.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
Were being overworked or or you know, that there was
a disproportionate distribution of work in the house because parenting
we have three small kids well twelve seven and or
it's a busy house and we're both full time working,
and so having those alignment meetings really taught us the
(20:54):
power of communication. We often have these alignment meetings in
front of our kids when we need to, so that
we can say the example for healthy discussions of adults,
so that they know help you communicate with each other
and then the debate the side commit I think is
actually a really powerful couple's strategy because you can't go
back and say, well, I told you that was the
wrong idea, because you debated it, you decided together, and
(21:17):
you committed to that course of action. So when it
goes the right way, it's amazing, and when it goes
the wrong way, you can't point fingers, and so it
allows for.
Speaker 6 (21:26):
A very healthy, very healthy household.
Speaker 8 (21:29):
I think it's so good, serving accountable.
Speaker 7 (21:32):
I'm writing notes.
Speaker 8 (21:34):
This is so delicious. I love it. And Gabrielle, are
you constantly traveling for work? Also? What are some ways
you and Shane have found to stay connected.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
So my husband is a little unusual. He was a
Navy seal for ten years prior to his second career.
He is now in his second career as a surgical resident,
and he's in his thirtyeth a Baylor in urology. His
work schedule is about, I don't know, one hundred hours
a week. It's it's tremendous. So I am not nearly
(22:10):
as organized as my sister in that way. Basically, I'm
shining a light wake up. It's not good but I
will say he is a professional teammate and this is
just inherent in this archetype of individual. And my expectation
(22:30):
of him right now is that he needs to get
through training and while we are connected, when we can be,
I mean, he very much needs that connection. We are
in a season that is highly dynamic and not so
much on my end, but really on his surgical training
is not you know, it's very intense because they're training
(22:50):
him up to you know, to be world class. And
I recognize that now, we both do. And your question
is how do we stay connected? And it's really we
try to schedule once a week time together, but honestly,
you know, he needs to sleep, he needs there are
things that so right now this season is I got it.
(23:11):
I can manage. And brother, when you are done, you.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Are digging all of it.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
I want to give a plug for Shane that he's
also very accessible if you need him right like if
there's totally and he's a team player, like my daughter
had a fight with an escalator and lost and.
Speaker 6 (23:27):
Had a gash, like I mean, and I'm like, who
do I call? And I'm like, of course, I call Shane.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
The Nateil trauma you know er bick and he he
responds right away, so I totally you know the seasons.
He is busy, but he is, like sister said, a
professional team player and if you ever need there, which
is like amazing.
Speaker 7 (23:49):
Let's underscore that too, because I do think I was
using in my mind the term season even before you
said it, because I think it's so important for families,
For couples, we you know, to acknowledge the season that
you're in. It's a different season when you have a
seven month baby than when you have a seventeen year
old that's going off to college. And so I think
part of even in alignment meetings or it's also to
(24:12):
acknowledge the season that the couple is in or the
family is in. I think that's another brilliant takeaway.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (24:18):
Now, Maddie Gabrielle also interviewed you on her podcast, and
you talked about setting boundaries prioritizing yourself as a professor
and mom of three. So, what are some practical ways
you've learned to actually do that?
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Absolutely, I think one of those is absolutely leaning into
your strengths and outsourcing your weaknesses. So I think asking
for help, whether you pay for it whether it's from
friends or family.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
Moms do a million things.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
A day and they can't do it all, and they
shouldn't have to do it all. So I think setting
boundaries of what you as a mother or what I
as a mother want to accomplish, and then asking for
help or hiring for help or ordering or whatever it
is makes you or me, you know the proverbial mom
like a better human being.
Speaker 6 (25:10):
Right when I'm more plax, I'm a better parent.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
So I think really identifying what you want to do.
And my sister's a great example, right, eating a healthy
and high protein is really important. I would not trust
her to cook food, so she So I think just
allowing for you know, understanding what you're good at, understanding
not good at, bringing in help to fill in what
(25:34):
you're not good at is really important. And I think also,
you know, my sister is another great example, or all
working moms are great examples. There's a lot of research
to show that working moms are really critical for daughters
to see themselves as future professionals. So it's important, I
think also to have that recognition that working on yourself
(25:56):
is actually setting the example for future generations. So I
say that as a professor. I think you know boundaries too.
Is I set work boundaries? I say, Okay, I'm on campus,
I'm with my students. I love my students. I don't
answer emails after eight pm unless it's an emergency, like
you'll hear from me the next day. But when my
time is done with my students, my time is done,
and I will see you the next day.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
And they're very respectful.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Because if you are transparent and you articulate your boundaries,
everybody's expectations are managed.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
If you're looking for stories that move you, insights that
shift you, in conversations that stay deeply within you, do
us a favor, and do yourself a favor, and hit
the subscribe button right now. It's the best way to
support this podcast and support your journey. New episodes drop
every week. Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 7 (26:44):
Now, you've also said you called your sister out a
little bit on this and said that she doesn't do
a very good job of taking care of herself. Maybe
it's that caring that strength for everyone else from a child.
So what would be what would you wish for your
sister to do more, for more of for herself.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
Oh, that's a good question.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
I think I would wish her to do more self care.
I'd say, like, do more massages, go slower, you stay
home with the kids, because she's she feels that she's
you know, she is doing so much for the world,
and she's doing so much for her family, and she
(27:26):
does you know, she does some stuff for herself. Don't
get me wrong, but I think she could really hone
in and take care of that golden goose. Is what
our mother always says, take care of the golden goose,
because when you take care of you, you can better
take care of everybody else.
Speaker 7 (27:39):
That's what I wish for you for twenty twenty six,
Gabrielle the Golden Goose.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
You know, you talk about recovery is an important part
of just not just working out, but just as an
overall mindset. And you said recovery isn't passive as proactive,
but in this case, you're talking about sleep, light, exposure,
hot and cold. You know, why do you think we've
gotten recovery so wrong? And what are some of the
critical elements of recovery.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah, I think that we've gotten recovery a little bit
wrong because we think that recovery is you know, and
this kind have many layers of meaning to it. That
it's just a warm bubble ball. Oh I got to
chill out. Oh that's what recovery is. And maybe that is,
but I think recovery is where a lot of the
magic happens.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
And when I say a lot of the magic, I.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Mean you are not making gains when you're training, and
if you think about your profession, you're not coming up
with these amazing creative ideas when you're grinding it out.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
You're sitting back and then all of a sudden, the idea.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Fairy just Oh, this is a great idea, and it
comes where there's moments of a little bit of idle behavior.
At least this is what I found. So there's the
mental recovery and then the physical recovery, the active process.
And you ask me, what have we gotten wrong? And
I don't know if we've gotten it wrong, but I
do think things like cold exposure, heat exposure, that there
(29:03):
is more to this physical domain than training and eating
while in and this is the environmental aspect, and that's
where I think recovery really fits in.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
And what I bet.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
That we're going to find a lot more about is
that the light that light makes a huge difference, the
lights that are around us and on us. I think
we are going to see more and more data that
it affects us much more deeply than we recognize, and
so being outside is going to be more and more important.
Speaker 7 (29:31):
Okay, so we recently had Tampson Fidel and her husband
Ira on this podcast talking about menopause, and for all
of our audience listening, you should definitely send that one
to all of the men in your life and you
can thank us later. Gabrielle, I know that Tampson interviewed
you on her podcast. What are the three things that
(29:51):
you tell every woman in their forties and fifties that
they need to start doing right now?
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Strength training Strength is a responsibility, not a lot xury
nail in your nutrition. It doesn't get easier, but everything
is possible. And number three, carry a neutral mind. The
more neutral you are, the less swings you know, the
higher you go, the lower you fall. And if you
maintain a level of neutrality, then you can make the
(30:19):
next right action happen, which allows you to be more discerning,
be strong, eat your protein, and be neutral. And actually
I said it in the wrong order. So the neutrality
piece should be first, you know, I think part of
what has happened is that we're always chasing this dopamine
and this drive, and it allows for a lot of distractions.
(30:40):
So instead of being able to take the next right action,
we're chasing the shiny object. We're looking at the next
thing to do, rather than allowing for ourselves to be
very discerning that this is the next right action and
there's no narrative around it. And when we become very neutral,
we have more flexibility and clarity at taking one next
(31:01):
right action. And so that's probably the first piece because
then that allows you to not skip the jam and
recognize that strength is a responsibility and that it's so
much more. It's the act of achieving and going after
strength that has this cascade effect because it's not the
strength that we're after, really, it's the whole system body
(31:21):
effect of muscle, which affects the brain, metabolism, bone, all
of the things that are important to us. Is it's
truly at our fingertips, you know, if we reorient to
that central focus of muscle.
Speaker 8 (31:33):
Maddie, you've become known as the cargo bike momb You
have five cargo bikes and use them to move your
three kids, groceries, even furniture around New York City. What's
been the biggest unexpected benefit?
Speaker 6 (31:53):
These bikes are life changing for me.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
I did not you know, I did not bike really
until I went to the Netherlands for a couple of
weeks and started biking and came back and I the
benefits are really endless. There's health and wellness benefits.
Speaker 6 (32:12):
Right, the even.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Assist cargo bikes give a moderate exercise. They are helping
us reduce our risk of being in a car right
one and three. I mean, I can get all very
technical on this because I spend a lot of time
thinking about this, but really, there's so many benefits. The
cargo bike has truly transformed my life. It's transformed a
number of people lives. You know. One thing that I
(32:35):
think is a very interesting metric point when we think
about why we use these bikes, is we accept in
our society forty thousand deaths with cars. There's six million
accidents car crashes a year, and so this is something
as a New Yorker, was a very uncomfortable place for
me to think about. So we live in New York City,
(32:56):
we don't have a car, we have these cargo bikes instead,
we move our family around, we move furniture. They can
do almost everything a car can, and we bike in
them year round, and they.
Speaker 6 (33:07):
Are cost savings.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
I mean, there's a whole slew of benefits, but I
think really recognizing how fun transportation can be, what kind
of connection it can bring that vast majority of me
and my family are. We're moving within one to three
miles of our home, which all can easily be done
on a cargo bike. So it's been a really fun
journey to learn and discover how incredible these bikes can
(33:32):
truly be.
Speaker 7 (33:32):
And they can find you at Cargo Bike Mama, right,
look you up.
Speaker 6 (33:36):
Okay, mma, m mma MMA.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (33:40):
Gabrielle, you've been pushing back on decades of conventional wisdom
about diet and fitness for our listeners. I would like
to ask you, what are three of the biggest myths
that you would like people to stop believing.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Well, the first one is that wee eat too much protein.
We don't, and we have to recognize that the current
recommendations are set at a minimum.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
And you know, people.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Will say, oh, well, the RDA, which is the recommended
dietary allowance. Well, that number is based on something called
a nitrogen balance value. I don't know of any health
outcome that is based on a nitrogen balance value. So
this is an early nineteen hundred technique that has come
up with this number, and we still use this number.
(34:24):
So the conversation is absolutely irrelevant for the amount of
protein that we are having. It's not that is it.
You know, is the RDA enough? It's is the RDA
even a relevant number? And that is a huge misunderstanding.
So number one, we are not eating enough protein for
optimal eating period. We're maybe eating enough protein to not
(34:45):
be worse than yesterday. But if we believe that skeletal
muscles the organ of longevity, there there's only two ways
to fuel it and stimulate it. Number one training and
number two dietary protein. So that piece, if someone left
away with nothing else, it's to understand the importance of
protein and muscle and aging. So that's the first myth.
(35:07):
And number two, women are not going to get bulky.
I've been trying for the last thirty years, same with
my sister. It's very difficult to put on muscle, and
the act of trying and the focus on it is
critical to longevity, health and wellness. The stronger you are,
the longer you live, the more muscle mass you have,
the better your ability to mitigate Alzheimer's and cardiovascular disease
(35:31):
and all these diseases that we're working against. And muscle
is what you have to gain, it's not what you
have to lose.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
And then I think.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
The third one in terms of health and wellness, I
don't know what I would pick for the third one,
but what is really on my mind is that we
can do hard things and this comfort, and that we're
always looking for comfort and making things easy on us.
If we choose the easy route now, life is going
(36:03):
to be harder. But if you choose the harder now,
life will be easier.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Gabrielle Mattie, you are so both incredibly impressive. This has
been a remarkable conversation to witness the bond between two
sisters who are both changing the world in their own ways.
You reminded us that strength isn't about perfection. It's about
showing up, and it's about living your true values and
doing the hard things that matter most. So some of
(36:30):
the things I loved in terms of our conversation today,
the fact that we're not raising children, we're raising adults.
The fact that we of course should be all traveling
with our resistance bands. Make sure we pack that next time,
recognizing the seasons and when's relationship, and of course the
power of a neutral mind, being strong and eating protein.
(36:52):
Thank you for inspiring this conversation, and thank you for
both living your legacy every single day.
Speaker 6 (36:58):
Thanks so much, Thank you, thank you, thank you for
joining us.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
If you enjoy today's conversation, subscribe, share, and follow us
on at my Legacy Movement on social media and YouTube.
New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus content every Thursday.
At its core, this podcast honors doctor King's vision of
the beloved community and the power of connection. A Legacy
(37:25):
Plus Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and executive producer
Suzanne Hayward co executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen on the
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Essentially, the idea of dumb jock is totally wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
The stronger you are, the faster you think.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Doctor Gabrielle Lyon is a Board certified physician, fellowship trained
in nutritional sciences and geriatrics, and the New York Times
best selling author of Forever Strong.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
If we choose the easy route now, life is going
to be harder, But if you choose the harder now,
life will be easier.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
As the creator of muscle centered medicine, she's a powerful
voice challenging everything we've been told about aging, fitness, and
what it means to be strong.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
In your book, you talk about the turning point for
you as a doctor.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
In that moment, I realized that it wasn't an obesity
of it him, that it really was an issue of
muscle and skeletal muscle is an organ of longevity.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Alongside her sister Mattie, they share the physical and mental
secrets that keep them both thriving.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
So health the moments has been something part of my
whole life, but what I learned specifically from Gabrielle was
actually life changing.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Your host Martin Luther King the Third, Andrea Waters, King,
Mark Kilberger, and Craig Kilberger for a transformative conversation about
building strength.
Speaker 6 (01:08):
In your body, your mind, and the relationships that matter most.
Speaker 7 (01:11):
What are three of the biggest myths that you would
like people to stop believe?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, the first one, you, Sailier.
Speaker 7 (01:22):
Welcome to my legacy. Today's guests is changing how millions
think about aging, health and what it means to be
truly strong. Gabrielle Lyon has trained Navy seals, Green Berets,
and NASCAR drivers, and now she's helping everyday people discover
what it means to be strong at any age. Gabrielle,
we are honored to have you here. And as we
(01:44):
know so well on this show, no one walks their
path alone. Our guests always bring along someone who has
witnessed their journey firsthand. Gabrielle, would you do us the
honor of introducing your plus one?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So my plus one is my sister, doctor Madeleine Novich,
who is a PhD in criminology and a professor and
really just has been with me through this entire journey
and our whole lives. I couldn't have done it without her.
Speaker 7 (02:13):
Who is the elder of the team. I always ask
I'm the eldest sister.
Speaker 8 (02:18):
So there you go, Maddie. You knew Gabrielle long before
the world did. Can you share a story from your
childhood that gives us a glimpse of the doctor she'd become.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Absolutely, So I'm going to take you on a journey
back to our childhood when it was the two of
us and we went camping with our father, Nathan Resmeck,
And this was something that we did as kids all
the time, and he would take us on these epic hikes.
Right now, I must have been four or five, and
(02:50):
my sister's a little bit older, and he would take
us on these, you know, ten mile hikes and load
up these backpacks that we were then carrying to our
remote cabin that we were then sleeping in our ten
and you know, the concept of legacy of strength in
our family has been there since the beginning, and so
we would do these long hikes and I just remember
(03:10):
crying because my backpack was so heavy. It wasn't heavy,
of course, but it was heavy to me. And I
remember us stopping multiple times along these hikes and unloading
my backpack into my dad's, into our dad's backpack, and
into my sister's backpack and she would carry like extra
poundage up these ten fifteen mile hikes because that's just
(03:31):
what she did, right. It was no complaining, it was
just this is what sisters do for each other.
Speaker 6 (03:36):
And you know, that was just one of many examples.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
But she is she will take the weight for you,
she will carry it for you, and she will she
won't make fun of you or you know, put you
down because you can't carry the weight. She's just there
as like a supporting and a strong figure. And that
was just we had many of those journeys and she
was very used to taking on all the extra weight
for me.
Speaker 6 (03:58):
So it was it was.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Wonderful childhood to grow up with as this are like, Gabrielle.
Speaker 7 (04:03):
I love that. So you all were rocking before it
became a thing like the weighted backpacks.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Oh yeah, so we started rocking again. We had a
very physical childhood. By the time I was five, I
was doing ten mile bike rides with my dad, you know.
And it's really interesting because in this space right now,
people will say, well, you know, I see that your
kids train, and I think to myself, and you know,
(04:31):
I say this often, we're not raising children, We're raising adults.
And the better habits we can instill in them now,
then they don't have to spend a lifetime trying to
break old ones, old poor ones. So it really is
critical as just we think about our legacy in the
next generation, that this language of strength and this language
(04:52):
of muscle as health becomes secondary.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
You know, I love that, Gabrielle. I'm going to give
it should it your new book, the Forever Strong Playbook,
in anticipation this wonderful interview, And just because I've been
a fan of your work, I have read Forever Strong
and loved it, and every time I went back to
the book, I would have amazing things that I would learn.
And also my lovely wife, Roxanne, who's a yogi, takes
(05:18):
her health very seriously, but not necessarily her muscle health
very seriously. So we've learned a lot in the process
from you. And in your book you talk about the
turning point for you as a doctor seeing the system
go so wrong, seeing patients come to you with chronic fatigue,
ob city, chronic disease and take us back. And you
(05:39):
talk a little bit of this in the book where
you said, oh my goodness, this system is not set
up for success. I need to look at this differently.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Well, I'm excited to take you through this story. And
I first want to go on record of saying that
studying geriatrics was not my first choice. I had studied
nutritional sciences and that had always been my first love,
and I was trained by one of the wildly experts
in protein metabolism. After going through residency, my mentor, doctor
Donald Leahman, said, listen, if you want to make the
(06:08):
impact that I know that you can in this world,
you have to go back to do a fellowship. I'm like, okay, great,
I would love to study nutrition. But the deal is,
as a physician, to go back and do a fellowship,
you must pick a medical specialty for funding for that research.
And so what was available to me was geriatrics, and that,
(06:32):
unbeknownst to me, really changed the trajectory of my life.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Here.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I was thinking all about health and wellness, really kind
of ignoring that aging process. And even because it's scary,
mortality is scary to think about it. I think, especially
for us in this culture, it's not you know, we
don't face our mortality frequently.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
You know, it's something that happens out there.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And I was working on a project that was looking
at the intersection between body composition and brain fund That
was my fellowship project as I was doing this fellowship
in nutritional sciences and geriatrics. And one of the participants
she was a woman in her mid fifties, and I
just I fell in love with her. She was awesome,
(07:14):
she had three kids, she had always put herself last,
She had cycled through the same twenty to thirty pounds
her entire life. And I imaged her brain because part
of the study was working and looking at brain function,
and her brain looked like the beginning of an Alzheimer's.
Speaker 7 (07:32):
Brain in fifties.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
In her fifties, I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Number One, because this woman had done everything that everyone
had told her to do from the medical community. And
number Two, when I went to my mentors and teachers
and fellow colleagues, they said, well, this is just the
way that it is. These are the recommendations, and this
is the outcome. You know, I think that those of
us that have the ability to do something have a responsibility.
(07:57):
And I promised I would never let that happen again.
That you know, as we've been chasing this obesity epidemic
that we've been chasing for the last fifty plus years.
In that moment, I realized that it wasn't an obesity epidemic,
that it really was an issue of muscle, and skeletal
muscle is the organ of longevity. Had she pivoted, had
(08:18):
we pivoted, had she been taught about this organ system,
she would not be in the position that she was
in in that moment. And frankly, if I can change listen,
I'd love to change a million lives, But if I
can change one, five, give me five, then I think
that we can begin to really reorient ourselves to the
(08:42):
power of skeletal muscle.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Well, you've certainly changed millions of lives, and your books
are so well known and your theories are so well known,
but just break it down for us. At the end
of the day. You talk very much about glucose, insulin,
metabolic health and the interrelationship between those three. Just just
pretend somebody doesn't owe your work and know most people do,
(09:03):
but just explain that intersectionality for us.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Sure, Well, first of all, muscle, skeletal muscle, this system.
We've forever thought about it as performance and exercise and strength,
and it is all of those things, but it's so
much more skeletal muscle and the dermatile just don't like
me for this. It is the largest organ system in
the body. It's not skin, it's muscle. It makes up
(09:28):
forty percent or more of an individual. Listen, if you
are more jacked like my husband, and might make up
fifty percent.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
But the performance.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Aspect, if we take that off the table, what is
skeletal muscle's role in the foundation of health and wellness?
But also imagine its role in chronic disease. So, skeletal
muscle at forty percent your body weight, if it becomes inflamed,
Now you have this tissue that is so massive that
is inflamed and disregulated, which happens. It also becomes weaker,
(10:01):
It also becomes less efficient, and it also becomes less
capable at utilizing all of the substrates and fuel that
we need. It's less flexible and skeletal muscle. When we
think about insulin resistance. So what are the big diseases.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
We're worried about.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Alzheimer's which is tied through diabetes in the brain, cardiovascular disease,
diabetes and obesity, let's just say, and cancer.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So we're worried about these diseases.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
And cancer will leave out because it's very complex, but
we do know that there's a metabolic component and having
obesity put to you at risk. So if we think
about skeletal muscle as this primary sink, these chronic diseases
are driven by metabolic dysregulation, So elevated levels of glucose,
(10:48):
elevated levels of insulin, elevated levels of triglycerides. Skeletal muscle
is your primary sink. If you A don't have enough
or B the muscle is not healthy and able to
receive these nutrients, then instead of it looking like a filet,
it looks like a marbled steak. And this this is
(11:11):
where these chronic diseases begin. So obesity is another symptom
of unhealthy muscle.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
First, you know, Gabrielle, you just mentioned something that was
important in terms of Alzheimer's. I remember you wrote in
the book that Alzheimer's is diabetes of the brain. I
thought that was a fascinating statement. Can you just help
us understand that part?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Well, there are multiple kinds of dementia, but Alzheimer's dementia
the majority, easily two thirds of Alzheimer's dementia is related
to metabolism and really metabolic dysfunction. And to take it
a step further, what I mean by that is we've
all heard about insulin resistance in our body.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Insulin is a hormone.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
It's a peptide release from the pancreas that helps remove
glucose carbohydrates from the bloodstream into tissues. Alzheimer's is in
part type three diabetes of the brain, so it's insulin
resistance in the brain. What is good for muscle is
good for brain. And I want to touch on this
(12:13):
because this is important. There is a brain muscle access
There is a brain muscle connection number one. What is
good for muscle, both nutritionally and body composition wise, is
good for brain. When you contract skeletal muscle, because it
is an organ system, it secretes hormone peptide hormones called myokines.
(12:36):
It secretes little molecules that go to the brain that
affect memory, neurogenesis, brain volume. Essentially, the idea of dumb
jock is totally wrong. The stronger you are, the greater
your working memory. The stronger you are, the greater your
executive function, which is thinking with numbers. The faster you move,
(12:59):
the faster you think. There is this relationship, this access,
between what we do with our body and the input
that it has on and in our brain. So there's
a metabolic component of Alzheimer's, which is critical type three
diabetes of the brain. In addition, the majority of individuals
do not train, do not do resistance training, and are
(13:21):
not meeting the minimum training recommendations. When you contract this
organ system, it directly affects the brain.
Speaker 7 (13:30):
Let me ask you this because there are many ways
of strength training, right and if you are you don't
have access to a gym, or if you're traveling a
lot like the three of us do, so you're not
taking dumbills on the road. There are you know, exercise bands.
Do you believe body weight? What are different forms of
strength training other than what we kind of think about,
(13:53):
you know, lugging one hundred pounds dumb bills?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I travel all the time, and what I do is
I have a travel bag that has a handful of
items in there, and I'm going to share with you
what they are. Number One, resistance bands. I carry a
bunch of resistance bands. I'm going to say a bunch
I carry right now, I'm down to two. I've kind
of streamlined. There was five for a while and then
(14:16):
maybe there was a little more. But now I'm down
to two resistance bands, one with a handle, one without. YEP,
it also travel with little devices, so number one you
could get away with that.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
That simply would be enough.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
One resistance span, one with a handle, and then one
I use a round one for leg workout or shoulder workout,
any any of those kinds of.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Exercises.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
If someone doesn't want to do that, or wants to
do that and wants to even take it up a notch,
you could travel with blood flow restriction, bluetooth blood flow restriction.
There are these little bands. I have them in my
bag with her about this big So there's only one
way not to do it, but there's a million different
ways to do it, right.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
The only thing wrong way to do is to not
do to not do it.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
I also like to interject that you will find my
sister doing push up challenges.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
With just thinking that any airport no problem, and the.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
Airport you will do and challenging anybody who will who.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
Is interesting, you will push up challenge.
Speaker 7 (15:19):
There you go, so you can do body weight as well.
You incorporate.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, and that's what I cover in the playbook because
what the data suggests is something called the VILPA. So
it's vigorous intermittent physical activity throughout the day. And what
that is is you could every hour get up and
do ten air squads pretty fast.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
You know, it's doing something to get your heart rate up.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
We think about training as this entity over here in
a discrete moment of time. That's not how we have
to train, right, So if the concept is we have
to contract skeletal muscle tissue, then what we do as
opposed to you know, this is the only time I'm
going to move during this train session, we begin to
integrate it into our life.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Coming up, three myths about your body that doctor Gabrielle
Lyon says are holding people back and what actually matters instead.
Speaker 7 (16:15):
Now back to my legacy, Mattie.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
I like to bring you to the conversation. You're talking
about the push up challenges, which I just found so endearing,
But you also recently posted a video of the two
of you working out together with a message I'm in
a quote here. Being strong is a deeply embedded value
we share. So just tell us a little bit about
that perspective, and what are some of the things that
you've learned from Gabrielle's work that impacts you and your
(16:38):
health longevity on your side?
Speaker 5 (16:40):
Absolutely, well, I'll start. I have done physical fitness my
whole life. Martial arts was my sport of trade.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And she's a black belt. By the way, he's a block.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I only had a brown belt before I started to Also,
she was a ranked runner.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Like in the.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Relay, she got off the couch. Here's the thing, So
I I'm not a natural athlete. This girl, she's like,
you know, chill and out, gets off the couch and
I don't know, you got like second in state.
Speaker 8 (17:14):
Oh, that's.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Just I just wanted it was.
Speaker 6 (17:17):
A sprinter, that's true. And I did do martial arts
my whole life.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
I started with jiu jitsu and kickboxing and then competed
in Korea and ended up in a mixed martial arts school.
So so health and wellness has been something part of
my whole life. But what I learned specifically from Gabrielle
was actually life changing. And there's a couple of things
I want to talk about. One I think is just
practical daily applications that anybody can do. One thing that
(17:42):
I learned is that you should start your day off
with thirty grams of protein, right, Like I normally wouldn't
eat and I'm naturally not inclined to eat until about
eleven AM. And learning from Gabrielle that was a mistake.
I should wake up and within two hours of waking up,
I should prime my body with protein so that I
am sting up my muscles for success.
Speaker 7 (18:01):
Right.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
And so that's one thing I've learned from her. Second
is any there is no excuse not to work out.
The only you know, the only mistake is not doing it.
And so anytime my sister and I are traveling together,
we always prioritize working out together. I spend the summers abroad,
and this past summer, my husband and I joined gyms
in you know, four different cities in Europe, just because
(18:24):
it's such a priority, and that I think was really
you know, it was a priority to begin with. But
learning to focus on muscle strength was something that I
learned specifically from Gabrielle.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Right, it's about resistance.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
I was doing a peloton, and I know nothing wrong
with doing a peloton, right, and spending all the time,
which I love but at the same time, it wasn't
It wasn't enough for muscle strength. So that was another
thing that I learned. It's just to really focus on
building muscle, primming my body with protein, hitting daily protein goals.
Speaker 6 (18:57):
Those are very achievable for most people. I think.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
I love that. That's amazing.
Speaker 8 (19:01):
So you're both married and have talked about your wonderful partners. Maddie.
You've shared that you and your husband have regular alignment meetings.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
Yes, honey, yes, honey.
Speaker 8 (19:16):
Can you talk about how it keeps you connected?
Speaker 6 (19:19):
Absolutely?
Speaker 5 (19:20):
So having a strong partner is so critical.
Speaker 6 (19:25):
To my experience. And I have an amazing partner.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
And we don't really argue very much because we have
set up this process of doing alignment meetings where we
feel when we when we are misaligned.
Speaker 6 (19:37):
Right, So, if we have a different goal or.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
We have something we need to accomplish, we will sit
down over coffee and do what's called DDC.
Speaker 6 (19:45):
We debate the side commit to whatever it is.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
And these are interesting takeaways that my husband learned being
in sort of corporate I mean he's in tech, he's
in a tech startup, but he is in a great
tech startup, and they were very thoughtful about how they
would teach the different players to work together, and he
brought those home to our household and said, Okay, hey,
we're having a misalignment on how you're feeling.
Speaker 6 (20:08):
Right, you feel like you're taking on more of the parenting.
I don't want you to feel that way.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Let's sit down, have an alignment meeting, and let's go
over which tasks I can do, which tasks you want
to do, and something actually I learned from my sister,
which is the idea to lean into your strengths and
outsource your weaknesses, right, And so we would go through
our strengths and weaknesses and take on different strategies so
that we were aligned.
Speaker 6 (20:32):
So no one felt like they.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
Were being overworked or or you know, that there was
a disproportionate distribution of work in the house because parenting
we have three small kids well twelve seven and or
it's a busy house and we're both full time working,
and so having those alignment meetings really taught us the
(20:54):
power of communication. We often have these alignment meetings in
front of our kids when we need to, so that
we can say the example for healthy discussions of adults,
so that they know help you communicate with each other
and then the debate the side commit I think is
actually a really powerful couple's strategy because you can't go
back and say, well, I told you that was the
wrong idea, because you debated it, you decided together, and
(21:17):
you committed to that course of action. So when it
goes the right way, it's amazing, and when it goes
the wrong way, you can't point fingers, and so it
allows for.
Speaker 6 (21:26):
A very healthy, very healthy household.
Speaker 8 (21:29):
I think it's so good, serving accountable.
Speaker 7 (21:32):
I'm writing notes.
Speaker 8 (21:34):
This is so delicious. I love it. And Gabrielle, are
you constantly traveling for work? Also? What are some ways
you and Shane have found to stay connected.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
So my husband is a little unusual. He was a
Navy seal for ten years prior to his second career.
He is now in his second career as a surgical resident,
and he's in his thirtyeth a Baylor in urology. His
work schedule is about, I don't know, one hundred hours
a week. It's it's tremendous. So I am not nearly
(22:10):
as organized as my sister in that way. Basically, I'm
shining a light wake up. It's not good but I
will say he is a professional teammate and this is
just inherent in this archetype of individual. And my expectation
(22:30):
of him right now is that he needs to get
through training and while we are connected, when we can be,
I mean, he very much needs that connection. We are
in a season that is highly dynamic and not so
much on my end, but really on his surgical training
is not you know, it's very intense because they're training
(22:50):
him up to you know, to be world class. And
I recognize that now, we both do. And your question
is how do we stay connected? And it's really we
try to schedule once a week time together, but honestly,
you know, he needs to sleep, he needs there are
things that so right now this season is I got it.
(23:11):
I can manage. And brother, when you are done, you.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Are digging all of it.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
I want to give a plug for Shane that he's
also very accessible if you need him right like if
there's totally and he's a team player, like my daughter
had a fight with an escalator and lost and.
Speaker 6 (23:27):
Had a gash, like I mean, and I'm like, who
do I call? And I'm like, of course, I call Shane.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
The Nateil trauma you know er bick and he he
responds right away, so I totally you know the seasons.
He is busy, but he is, like sister said, a
professional team player and if you ever need there, which
is like amazing.
Speaker 7 (23:49):
Let's underscore that too, because I do think I was
using in my mind the term season even before you
said it, because I think it's so important for families,
For couples, we you know, to acknowledge the season that
you're in. It's a different season when you have a
seven month baby than when you have a seventeen year
old that's going off to college. And so I think
part of even in alignment meetings or it's also to
(24:12):
acknowledge the season that the couple is in or the
family is in. I think that's another brilliant takeaway.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (24:18):
Now, Maddie Gabrielle also interviewed you on her podcast, and
you talked about setting boundaries prioritizing yourself as a professor
and mom of three. So, what are some practical ways
you've learned to actually do that?
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Absolutely, I think one of those is absolutely leaning into
your strengths and outsourcing your weaknesses. So I think asking
for help, whether you pay for it whether it's from
friends or family.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
Moms do a million things.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
A day and they can't do it all, and they
shouldn't have to do it all. So I think setting
boundaries of what you as a mother or what I
as a mother want to accomplish, and then asking for
help or hiring for help or ordering or whatever it
is makes you or me, you know the proverbial mom
like a better human being.
Speaker 6 (25:10):
Right when I'm more plax, I'm a better parent.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
So I think really identifying what you want to do.
And my sister's a great example, right, eating a healthy
and high protein is really important. I would not trust
her to cook food, so she So I think just
allowing for you know, understanding what you're good at, understanding
not good at, bringing in help to fill in what
(25:34):
you're not good at is really important. And I think also,
you know, my sister is another great example, or all
working moms are great examples. There's a lot of research
to show that working moms are really critical for daughters
to see themselves as future professionals. So it's important, I
think also to have that recognition that working on yourself
(25:56):
is actually setting the example for future generations. So I
say that as a professor. I think you know boundaries too.
Is I set work boundaries? I say, Okay, I'm on campus,
I'm with my students. I love my students. I don't
answer emails after eight pm unless it's an emergency, like
you'll hear from me the next day. But when my
time is done with my students, my time is done,
and I will see you the next day.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
And they're very respectful.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Because if you are transparent and you articulate your boundaries,
everybody's expectations are managed.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
If you're looking for stories that move you, insights that
shift you, in conversations that stay deeply within you, do
us a favor, and do yourself a favor, and hit
the subscribe button right now. It's the best way to
support this podcast and support your journey. New episodes drop
every week. Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 7 (26:44):
Now, you've also said you called your sister out a
little bit on this and said that she doesn't do
a very good job of taking care of herself. Maybe
it's that caring that strength for everyone else from a child.
So what would be what would you wish for your
sister to do more, for more of for herself.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
Oh, that's a good question.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
I think I would wish her to do more self care.
I'd say, like, do more massages, go slower, you stay
home with the kids, because she's she feels that she's
you know, she is doing so much for the world,
and she's doing so much for her family, and she
(27:26):
does you know, she does some stuff for herself. Don't
get me wrong, but I think she could really hone
in and take care of that golden goose. Is what
our mother always says, take care of the golden goose,
because when you take care of you, you can better
take care of everybody else.
Speaker 7 (27:39):
That's what I wish for you for twenty twenty six,
Gabrielle the Golden Goose.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
You know, you talk about recovery is an important part
of just not just working out, but just as an
overall mindset. And you said recovery isn't passive as proactive,
but in this case, you're talking about sleep, light, exposure,
hot and cold. You know, why do you think we've
gotten recovery so wrong? And what are some of the
critical elements of recovery.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah, I think that we've gotten recovery a little bit
wrong because we think that recovery is you know, and
this kind have many layers of meaning to it. That
it's just a warm bubble ball. Oh I got to
chill out. Oh that's what recovery is. And maybe that is,
but I think recovery is where a lot of the
magic happens.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
And when I say a lot of the magic, I.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Mean you are not making gains when you're training, and
if you think about your profession, you're not coming up
with these amazing creative ideas when you're grinding it out.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
You're sitting back and then all of a sudden, the idea.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Fairy just Oh, this is a great idea, and it
comes where there's moments of a little bit of idle behavior.
At least this is what I found. So there's the
mental recovery and then the physical recovery, the active process.
And you ask me, what have we gotten wrong? And
I don't know if we've gotten it wrong, but I
do think things like cold exposure, heat exposure, that there
(29:03):
is more to this physical domain than training and eating
while in and this is the environmental aspect, and that's
where I think recovery really fits in.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
And what I bet.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
That we're going to find a lot more about is
that the light that light makes a huge difference, the
lights that are around us and on us. I think
we are going to see more and more data that
it affects us much more deeply than we recognize, and
so being outside is going to be more and more important.
Speaker 7 (29:31):
Okay, so we recently had Tampson Fidel and her husband
Ira on this podcast talking about menopause, and for all
of our audience listening, you should definitely send that one
to all of the men in your life and you
can thank us later. Gabrielle, I know that Tampson interviewed
you on her podcast. What are the three things that
(29:51):
you tell every woman in their forties and fifties that
they need to start doing right now?
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Strength training Strength is a responsibility, not a lot xury
nail in your nutrition. It doesn't get easier, but everything
is possible. And number three, carry a neutral mind. The
more neutral you are, the less swings you know, the
higher you go, the lower you fall. And if you
maintain a level of neutrality, then you can make the
(30:19):
next right action happen, which allows you to be more discerning,
be strong, eat your protein, and be neutral. And actually
I said it in the wrong order. So the neutrality
piece should be first, you know, I think part of
what has happened is that we're always chasing this dopamine
and this drive, and it allows for a lot of distractions.
(30:40):
So instead of being able to take the next right action,
we're chasing the shiny object. We're looking at the next
thing to do, rather than allowing for ourselves to be
very discerning that this is the next right action and
there's no narrative around it. And when we become very neutral,
we have more flexibility and clarity at taking one next
(31:01):
right action. And so that's probably the first piece because
then that allows you to not skip the jam and
recognize that strength is a responsibility and that it's so
much more. It's the act of achieving and going after
strength that has this cascade effect because it's not the
strength that we're after, really, it's the whole system body
(31:21):
effect of muscle, which affects the brain, metabolism, bone, all
of the things that are important to us. Is it's
truly at our fingertips, you know, if we reorient to
that central focus of muscle.
Speaker 8 (31:33):
Maddie, you've become known as the cargo bike momb You
have five cargo bikes and use them to move your
three kids, groceries, even furniture around New York City. What's
been the biggest unexpected benefit?
Speaker 6 (31:53):
These bikes are life changing for me.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
I did not you know, I did not bike really
until I went to the Netherlands for a couple of
weeks and started biking and came back and I the
benefits are really endless. There's health and wellness benefits.
Speaker 6 (32:12):
Right, the even.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Assist cargo bikes give a moderate exercise. They are helping
us reduce our risk of being in a car right
one and three. I mean, I can get all very
technical on this because I spend a lot of time
thinking about this, but really, there's so many benefits. The
cargo bike has truly transformed my life. It's transformed a
number of people lives. You know. One thing that I
(32:35):
think is a very interesting metric point when we think
about why we use these bikes, is we accept in
our society forty thousand deaths with cars. There's six million
accidents car crashes a year, and so this is something
as a New Yorker, was a very uncomfortable place for
me to think about. So we live in New York City,
(32:56):
we don't have a car, we have these cargo bikes instead,
we move our family around, we move furniture. They can
do almost everything a car can, and we bike in
them year round, and they.
Speaker 6 (33:07):
Are cost savings.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
I mean, there's a whole slew of benefits, but I
think really recognizing how fun transportation can be, what kind
of connection it can bring that vast majority of me
and my family are. We're moving within one to three
miles of our home, which all can easily be done
on a cargo bike. So it's been a really fun
journey to learn and discover how incredible these bikes can
(33:32):
truly be.
Speaker 7 (33:32):
And they can find you at Cargo Bike Mama, right,
look you up.
Speaker 6 (33:36):
Okay, mma, m mma MMA.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (33:40):
Gabrielle, you've been pushing back on decades of conventional wisdom
about diet and fitness for our listeners. I would like
to ask you, what are three of the biggest myths
that you would like people to stop believing.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Well, the first one is that wee eat too much protein.
We don't, and we have to recognize that the current
recommendations are set at a minimum.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
And you know, people.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Will say, oh, well, the RDA, which is the recommended
dietary allowance. Well, that number is based on something called
a nitrogen balance value. I don't know of any health
outcome that is based on a nitrogen balance value. So
this is an early nineteen hundred technique that has come
up with this number, and we still use this number.
(34:24):
So the conversation is absolutely irrelevant for the amount of
protein that we are having. It's not that is it.
You know, is the RDA enough? It's is the RDA
even a relevant number? And that is a huge misunderstanding.
So number one, we are not eating enough protein for
optimal eating period. We're maybe eating enough protein to not
(34:45):
be worse than yesterday. But if we believe that skeletal
muscles the organ of longevity, there there's only two ways
to fuel it and stimulate it. Number one training and
number two dietary protein. So that piece, if someone left
away with nothing else, it's to understand the importance of
protein and muscle and aging. So that's the first myth.
(35:07):
And number two, women are not going to get bulky.
I've been trying for the last thirty years, same with
my sister. It's very difficult to put on muscle, and
the act of trying and the focus on it is
critical to longevity, health and wellness. The stronger you are,
the longer you live, the more muscle mass you have,
the better your ability to mitigate Alzheimer's and cardiovascular disease
(35:31):
and all these diseases that we're working against. And muscle
is what you have to gain, it's not what you
have to lose.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
And then I think.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
The third one in terms of health and wellness, I
don't know what I would pick for the third one,
but what is really on my mind is that we
can do hard things and this comfort, and that we're
always looking for comfort and making things easy on us.
If we choose the easy route now, life is going
(36:03):
to be harder. But if you choose the harder now,
life will be easier.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Gabrielle Mattie, you are so both incredibly impressive. This has
been a remarkable conversation to witness the bond between two
sisters who are both changing the world in their own ways.
You reminded us that strength isn't about perfection. It's about
showing up, and it's about living your true values and
doing the hard things that matter most. So some of
(36:30):
the things I loved in terms of our conversation today,
the fact that we're not raising children, we're raising adults.
The fact that we of course should be all traveling
with our resistance bands. Make sure we pack that next time,
recognizing the seasons and when's relationship, and of course the
power of a neutral mind, being strong and eating protein.
(36:52):
Thank you for inspiring this conversation, and thank you for
both living your legacy every single day.
Speaker 6 (36:58):
Thanks so much, Thank you, thank you, thank you for
joining us.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
If you enjoy today's conversation, subscribe, share, and follow us
on at my Legacy Movement on social media and YouTube.
New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus content every Thursday.
At its core, this podcast honors doctor King's vision of
the beloved community and the power of connection. A Legacy
(37:25):
Plus Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and executive producer
Suzanne Hayward co executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen on the
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Craig Kielburger
Marc Kielburger
Martin Luther King III
Arndrea Waters King
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