November 18, 2025 • 38 mins
Jillian Turecki – relationship coach, New York Times bestselling author, and advisor to Bumble – joins My Legacy for a raw conversation about love, heartbreak, and the patterns we must break to truly heal.
With her plus one, longtime friend and yoga teacher Nikki Costello, Jillian unpacks what it really means to grow, to love, and to begin again.
Together with hosts Martin Luther King III, Arndrea Waters King, Marc Kielburger, and Craig Kielburger, they explore the difference between chemistry and compatibility, the trap of waiting to be chosen, and why your love life will always reflect the relationship you have with yourself.
They reveal how:
- Healing starts when you stop waiting to be chosen
- Accountability gives you the power to change your patterns
- Chemistry is not a reliable compass for lasting love
- Choosing the right partner begins with knowing your values
- Vulnerability isn’t weakness—it’s the foundation of real connection
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So what are two or three red flash that you
should right?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Okay, let's go there.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Jillian Tareki is the relationship coach millions turn to when
love gets messy, helping people break patterns, build healthy relationships,
and serving up hard truth about love.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You could have dated people who were disproportionately.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
The bigger problem, from swipes to second chances. She breaks
down the realities of modern dating with humor and heart.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
What are the trends that give you hope and what
are the trends that were you?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
More and more people are wanting to With.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Her longtime friend and yoga guru Niki Costello, they dive
into what makes love work and how Jillian turned her
own heartbreak into healing.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I entered a pretty severe dark night of the soul,
and I became obsessed with what makes a relationship work.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Join hosts Martin Luther King the Third, Andrea Waters, King,
Mark Kilberger, and Craig Kilberger for an unfiltered conversation about
real connection, the courage to open your heart, and the
everyday choices that will or break our relationships.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
This is like a whole episode of Sex and the
City Nata. There are some people who you can build
a life with, and there are some people who you.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Should just be.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Welcome to my legacy. Today's guest is Jillian Taureki, a
relationship expert and coach, a New York Times bestselling author,
and an advisor on the Bumble dating app. Jillian, We're
so glad to have you with us here today, and
of course, on my legacy, we always ask our guests
to bring with us someone who knows them well on
a deep personal level, someone who's been with them on
their journey. Would you mind introducing your plus one today?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I absolutely will. First of all, thank you so much
for having me. I'm honored to be here, and today
I introduce Nicki Costello. Nicki is an old, dear friend
of mine and also has played the role of mentor
in my life. She has been my yoga teacher for
seventeen years something insane like that. And I met Niki
(02:07):
and started working with Niki when I was experiencing a
lot of dysregulation in my nervous system and there was
a lot of things going on in my health at
the time where I just didn't feel like stable physically
not mentally. I was searching for more meaning in my
(02:30):
practice and more stability in my practice and more expansion
in my practice. And Niki was the teacher who opened
that up to me. She also officiated my wedding and
even though the marriage did not last, the actual ceremony
was beautiful. And so yeah, just very honored and proud
(02:52):
to have her join us today.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Nikki, you and Julian have been friends for years. Can
you take us back to when you first met and
what is it about Jillian that made you come to
the conclusion I must have her in my life.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I love that.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
Yes, yes, I walked into a classroom and I was
really new to a space, and the class was packed,
it was full, and in the back of the room
there was there was Jillian.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I didn't know her by name, but I recognized something.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
And when when you're a teacher, you recognize or I
do studentship, you recognize this immediate attention connection, a sense
that both of us are doing something purposeful there together.
She liked this particular place in the classroom and it
was always a perspective where she could see me clearly
(03:52):
and everyone else as well. And I really thought about
that a lot, and how Jillian's capacity to focus so
clearly and directly on a person or on whatever it
is that that we were doing. Also was met by
her incredible capacity and inquiry to touch everyone, to reach
(04:16):
everyone where they are. So this is the kind of
friend you always want in your life. One who listens
and one who also serves, one who gives of themselves
fel fully.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So we're in the classroom. How do we get to
that back of the classroom?
Speaker 3 (04:39):
This side?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I was the back, wasn't it, Nicky?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I always went to the back row. Yeah, So this
is why I love the show.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
You get like, who would have ever known that other
than Nicky? With that one perspective that you bring up.
Speaker 6 (04:50):
Now, Jillian, you've mentioned expansion a few times, and that
is a word that really resonates with me. I know
that you said one of your biggest wake up calls
was the day that your husband called to tell you
that he wanted to break up. Was the exact same
day that you suffered a miscarriage and your mother happened
(05:15):
to be dying of terminal cancer. What did you learn
about yourself that day that has carried you through?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah. I often refer to that day as the day
I died, because then there was just like a rebirth
that happened, and I remember having this thought, Oh, this
is what it feels like when your life completely falls apart.
I'm like, this is what it is. And I entered
a pretty severe, dark night of the soul. And you know,
(05:48):
it was people like Nikki who's sitting here just having
her presence as a teacher and as a friend, having
my yoga practice. These are the things that really contributed
to me holding it all together. I was on a
path that was not the right path. And so I
(06:13):
think that when we experience such a catastrophic moment in
our life, we search for meaning, and we want to understand,
you know, why this is all happening, and we want
to figure out how to survive it. We just want
to feel better. And so that's what I did. I
(06:35):
search for meaning in it, and I searched for how
to feel better. And I became obsessed with, well, what
makes a relationship work? Because I was consumed by the
reality that I was in this position where I would be,
you know, left at forty and what does that mean?
(06:56):
And I'm going to be I'm going to get a
divorce and I just couldn't believe it. And I thought
I need to figure this out, because this is I
just need to figure this out. And so here I
am today, still completely dedicated to figuring it out.
Speaker 6 (07:14):
It's like a phoenix that rise from the ashes. Yeah,
that's what I see when I see you and Nikki.
Now you've walked beside Jillian for almost two decades. What's
the most profound change that you've seen in her since
those early years when you first met, when she was
(07:35):
in the back of the classroom taking everything in.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
What I'll focus in on, because I had a very
clear image arise as Jillian was speaking about that day
and the time just after that, is Jillian's humility and vulnerability.
We walked a lot in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and we would
(08:03):
walk along the East River and she we'd always have
sweet Pea Darlian. And so when you really consider, like
we have these moments where everything seems to be falling
apart right and so many people then want to cling
to keeping it together. Jillian could show up, she could
(08:27):
do her work, she could teach yoga with incredible integrity
and commitment, and when when she could retreat from that
and simply walk, she could be vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
She didn't try to hold on to.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
The life that she had had, that she thought she
was making. She stayed in Really what Andrea is an
expansive place. It's an expansive place because it's saying, Okay,
this is all happening.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Can I allow myself.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
To be a little bit bigger, to receive more at
this moment when it feels like everything's been taken away?
So I just listen, and I know something about Jillian
that the world is benefiting from right now, and that is.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
In that state, in that place.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
How do you ask yourself the really important questions and
how to then do those questions take you deeper into
knowing who you are and how to rebuild from a
place of vulnerability, tenderness and the strength that comes from,
(09:46):
you know, going deep and saying I'm I can, I
can change now.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And it's so important to do it because sometimes you'll
be forced into that kind of surrender. But it is,
you know, I think, and that's like the word that
comes to my mind is you really just have to surrender,
and then you have to come up with a.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
Plan surrender and then come up with the plan.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Speaking of a plan, Julian and you laid out in
your new York Times bestseller, It begins with You, Nine
Hard Truths about love. Of those nine truths, which one
do people resist the most but need to hear the most.
Speaker 6 (10:37):
He's asking as a man that's been married for twenty years, thirty.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Thirty we dated.
Speaker 6 (10:46):
We dated for ten years before we were married, so
it's time served.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
So I always say thirty years.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yes, Yes, it is.
Speaker 6 (10:56):
Can I get an amen? Wow?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I would say it's it's the first truth, which is
the title of the book, and the last one. Accountability
is hard for a lot of people. It's hard to
take responsibility for your life when you feel like you've
been dealt a tough hand. It's hard to take responsibility
(11:22):
for your relationship when you're pissed off at your partner.
It's hard to take. It's hard to take responsibility. I mean,
life can be very hard and sad. Things can happen
where you rightfully feel like a victim and you cannot
(11:44):
change your life from that vantage point. It Begins with
You is not about oh, you're the problem, you know,
because I know that becomes somewhat of a platitude. It's
not that, it's just that you are the common denominator
and all your relationships. That does not mean that you
are the only problem. You could have dated people who
(12:07):
were disproportionately the bigger problem. You still chose them. And
some people like to say, oh right, my biggest problem
is that I choose terrible partners. Okay, I'll give you that.
You're telling me that when you were with these terrible
partners you were an angel all the way through. Impossible
because we're human. So the first one is I really
(12:29):
had to get through to people, which I believe I did. Hey,
this is not about blame. This isn't about making it
your fault. This is about empowerment that truly it does
begin with you, and if you adopt that mindset, if
you will, you then have enormous power to change your
(12:55):
love life and your life in general. And then the
last one, which is a doozy, is you must make
peace with your parents. I think that a lot of
people have resistance to that. That chapter is not just
about making peace with a quote unquote hard parent, It's
just make peace with who they are. Look at it
(13:15):
from different perspectives. I tell a story in that book
about this girl who I worked with. I'm twenty seven
years old Colombian and she was raised by her single
Colombian mom and they came to this country and when
they did, this woman she had barely any money. They
escaped an abusive father and it was just her and
(13:37):
her daughter. And this woman started cleaning people's homes and
built a multi million dollar company over twelve years. But
when you think about what a woman has to go
through in order to become that, she's got to become tough.
(13:58):
And so she taught her daughter be tough and be strong,
and girls don't cry, which is nuts because usually it's
boys that get that messaging. Boys aren't supposed to cry.
So she and her mother's intention. She was very close
with her mom, by the way, and her mom ended
up passing from cancer, and she had come to me
(14:19):
in her grief and had come to me trying to
figure out why I was never working with men, and
she had not. Surprisingly, this girl had an amazing career.
I mean, her mom taught her how to take care
of herself, how to not take no for an answer,
how to be strong, and it has served her so
well in her life, just not in her love life. Yes,
(14:44):
And it's because she really internalized this idea that she
could never be vulnerable and so making peace with her
mom who passed, who she loved and was well taken
care of by her, was just understanding what her mom
really really wanted for her and not to have that
(15:07):
story replaying in her head that she can't be vulnerable.
Speaker 6 (15:10):
And I love the fact too of that. This is
when you really think about that, it really is empowering
to start and it's interesting and you start with which
is kind of the opposite most is I kind of
start with your parents and end with you. But it's
so interesting, you know, you start with you and then
(15:31):
ultimately I think going along the steps, you have that
the capacity then to look at your parents and that
relationship with the more beautiful and holistic view coming up.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Jillian calls out the dating red flags you can't fix,
can't ignore, and should absolutely walk away from.
Speaker 6 (15:54):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Jillian, you recently became a relationship expert and product advisor
for Bumble, of course, one of the largest dating apps
in the world. Yes, so, I'm a data geek, and
I gotta say that one of the coolest things about
this role is I imagine you get to see a
lot of the inside data on a meta level of
what that actually looks like. So when you are looking
at all of that data, what are the trends that
(16:19):
give you hope and what are the trends that were
you The.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Data that gives me hope is that there are people
who more and more people are wanting to build healthier
relationships more and because of that, they are more willing
(16:44):
to have conversations and share how their past experiences has
shaped them today. And more people are having insight into
what doesn't really work for them in a relationship, so
then they can more easily vet people. Honestly, it's like, Okay,
(17:10):
now I understand that actually it's not just how I
think you look and how you think I look like
do our values align? And so what I'm seeing is
that there's a movement towards really getting people to understand
what their values are and to share that to get
(17:31):
better matches. So that I think is very positive data.
I think that the troubling data is what has always
been there in just dating apps and dating culture in general,
is that technology in the swiping just makes it so
that we're treating people like they're incredibly disposable. Then there's
(17:56):
just all technology runs like on an algorithm, right, and
that's very very complex. I can't even begin to wrap
my head around it. But sometimes you're not getting you
won't be getting the right matches because the algorithm has
somehow shifted. It's like the same thing on social media.
Some people, your followers won't be seeing some of your
(18:18):
content because there's an algorithm shift. So in that way,
that's something that that's a hurdle that I think is
continuously there for us to have to overcome when it
comes to technology in general and better at matching and dating.
And then you know, another positive piece of data is
(18:40):
that I think that some places I know Bumble is
for sure, you know, really committed to safety for women
because let's face it, if you're on a dating app,
you're interacting with strangers, and women always have to be
very careful about that because people will say, oh, you know,
(19:01):
technology has ruined us, or dating apps is routing ruined dating,
And then I and then I often wonder has it
or has it just exposed us? You know, is it
dating apps that has created so many emotionally unavailable people
or is it just exposing it because we're seeing more.
(19:23):
You know, back in the day, people we speaking of community,
people were much more engaged in community in our society.
So they would go more to they would join that
bowling league, they would go to the church, they would
go to the synagogue, they would go to the mosque,
they would they would, they would do these things, and
(19:44):
oftentimes we would meet through community or a friend of
a friend. Now you're meeting people and they truly are
complete strangers, so there's no accountability, and that's where things
have gotten very compl But it's never been easy to
find love. I've never thought about that.
Speaker 6 (20:05):
I've never thought about the fact of there was some
type of connection to some type of community, like we
were set up on a blind age. Yeah, so even
though so it still was, I've never thought about it
in that capacity. And when we were leading up to
this interview with you, you know, you know, I did
what any good girlfriend would do, is so I asked
(20:26):
a lot of my single friends. So I kind of
have like a tale of two camps, right, a tale
of two single ladies. There's one who is like running
far away now from dating world or dating apps, and
it's kind of of the mind frame that if it happens,
it happens, and when it happens, It happens. And then
then there's my other friend who's like, you know, kind
(20:48):
of tipping their toe in and out and in and out,
but not necessarily committed. I'm going to go in for
a few weeks and then Okay, that's it. I'm out.
Is there a strategy, if you will, that you have
found that you would offer to my single wonderful friends, so.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
You can always take the route like friend A, who
is like, I'm just going to live my life and
I'm going to trust that when the timing is right,
I will meet this person and let it happen organically.
And I think that that's I think when you like
your life and you don't feel lonely and you're not
(21:31):
and you don't have a clock ticking when it comes
to your fertility and you want to have children, then
I think that's a great option. What I think is
equally a great option is if you want a relationship,
you gotta go get it, and that means you cannot
(21:52):
let anything stand in the way. Go on lots of dates,
keep prepare to be disappointed on most of them, and
get really good at vetting people, really good practice your
social skills, because most people have very weak social skills
(22:12):
and treat it like a job that you're going to
meet someone. But that doesn't mean that you burn yourself
out or exhausted. You still have to live your life,
but you just have to be determined. I love that
when you're in between and you're kind of tipping your toes.
I've got nothing but empathy for that. I get it.
(22:33):
Chances are you're not going to meet someone in that state.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Jillian, what is your hottest take? Pawn very much intended
on the role chemistry plays when searching for love.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
It plays a huge role. It's very very very important,
and it's incredibly unreliable and it's not enough. So there's
lots of different ways to look at it. So first
of all, there's there's various levels to chemistry. The obvious,
(23:07):
which is the physical sexual attraction. Then there's emotional chemistry.
You have great you feel like a great spiritual connection.
There's intellectual chemistry you have great conversations where you feel inspired.
You have playful chemistry like you have like a good friendship.
So there's various levels to chemistry, and you know there,
(23:30):
I think they're all important. If I'm being honest, Sometimes
we mistake, there's no spark yet. In other words, sometimes
like feeling an immediate spark of chemistry does not mean anything.
In fact, oftentimes when we do, it's because of For
(23:52):
some people, because it's familiar, they remind you of mom
or dad, and it's not necessarily a good thing. For
some people, it's the per looks exactly like the archetype
in your mind of what you consider to be beautiful
or handsome. If someone really truly figures out the nuance
and what chemistry is and why it happens, they will
(24:14):
win the Nobel Peace Prize, because in many ways it
truly is a mystery, and there's lots of different theories,
and all the theories are sound, but no one can
really point their finger on it, except for the fact
that you could feel immediate chemistry with the person who's
going to abuse you. You can feel immediate chemistry with someone.
And what people don't understand is that there are some
(24:37):
people who you can build a life with, and there
are some people who you should just have a night with.
In the beginning, when we are flooded with hormones and
we are flooded with lust, and we are because everything
in the beginning is novelty and adventure and the unknown
(24:58):
and a promise of the And when we are flooded
with novelty, adventure and hope, our systems are flooded with aliveness.
And in that aliveness we feel so much chemistry with someone.
But staying in love is a skill, and you have
(25:19):
to work on those things. You have to bring a
liveness to the relationship. You can't just be passive because
in the beginning, you can be totally passive because your
hormones are doing it all for you, and the newness
of it is doing it all for you. To be
a good partner and to build a good relationship, it
(25:41):
begins with you, and you have to bring that energy
to a relationship. You just have tory. But the thing
is what happens is that, as you know, in a relationship,
when we're really close with someone, we're really comfortable, we
start to treat them like family. And what do we
do with family. We regress and we kind of take
them for granted and we're a little bit passive, and
(26:04):
we can't do that in a romantic relationship. So chemistry
is important, but you have to be self aware enough
to know your patterns and are you only having chemistry
with people who are unavailable? Are you only having chemistry
with people who treat you like crap? Or are you
able to value other things in a person? And sometimes
(26:27):
chemistry can grow. I think for men it's more instantaneous,
but for women it's different because as a woman starts
to feel safe with someone, as she starts to feel
seen and heard, that's when she starts to open up more.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Scrolling won't change your life, but subscribing just might tap
that button and stay connected to conversations that can't. Now
back to my legacy.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Julie, you kind of alluded to some of this, but
so what are two of three we read flags that
you should run right away?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Okay, let's go there. When someone is all they're doing
is bad mouthing their ex and their family, which, by
the way, is different than sharing a very difficult experience
you had with someone. But talk about a victim who
(27:28):
never takes responsibility. It's always everyone else's fault. I had
a client once and her picker, meaning like what she
her internal compass of who she chose, was just broken.
And she started to date this guy and he had
the crazy ex and she was going on and he
(27:51):
convinced her on and on and on and on and
on about how emotionally unstable his exes. But he was
married to her for ten years, so what does that
say about him? And actually what turned out is that
he was incredibly emotionally unstable and the two of them
were creating an incredibly emotionally unstable relationship. So that's red
(28:12):
flag number one. Another one is someone who's just not
investing their time in you. They are not really trying
to get to know you. They may want to sleep
with you, or they may want to have a fun
time with you. But if you want a relationship and
someone is not actually asking you questions about your life,
(28:37):
asking you about you, know, there's no curiosity there to
really get under the hood of the car and understand
who you are. Huge red flag. And that's different than
a first date when someone might be very nervous, because
a lot of times people are nervous, especially men who
I've worked with, They're very very nervous and self conscious
(28:57):
on a first date. And what men tend to do
is then just talk about themselves and not ask any questions,
and oftentimes it's just coming from an insecurity. This is like,
you know, you've had a few dates and it's just
not progressing, and you feel like the person's not asking
you any questions, and so that's a red flag. And
(29:17):
then a third red flag. You have to tune into
your body and check in and just ask yourself, how
do I feel when I'm with this person? Do I
feel comfortable? Do I feel at ease? Do I feel
like I can express an opinion safely? Do I feel
(29:38):
like I can be myself with this person? If the
answer to any of those questions is no, that's your
internal alarm system going off, trying to get your attention.
Speaker 6 (29:49):
So way back in the nineteen hundreds during our first date,
were you nervous? Do you remember?
Speaker 1 (30:01):
I'm always nervous.
Speaker 6 (30:04):
I'm still making nervous sometimes now.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
So, Nikki, let me ask you a question. You've taught
people for decades about the importance of the mind body connection.
If you could teach everyone one thing from yoga that
would help their relationship, what would that be?
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Trusting oneself?
Speaker 5 (30:35):
When one is engaged in practice yoga practice, a meditation
practice and has a connection to their their spirit, like
really their heart. In that state of connection, there's such trust,
there's such a sense of being I am I am
with myself, I'm good, and many of us practice for
(30:59):
a long time to be able to fully not only
embrace that, but trust the truth of that feeling in
our own hearts. We find many ways to escape that,
or we have doubts or we have confusion in all
our relationships and aspects of our life. When you're sitting
with yourselves and you're like, I I'm good, like I
(31:23):
trust myself, then a spiritual practice has come to fruition.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
M I love how that connects back too, to Jillian's
like the first principle that it starts with you. I
love that how that connects back for all circle too, Like,
so you can come to a point of I'm good
no matter what, I am good, and I can trust myself. Yes, yes,
(31:52):
I'm gonna jump single ladies, ladies, let's do it, because
there are more single women today in their thirties, forties,
and fifties.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Than ever before.
Speaker 6 (32:04):
So I know Jillian that you talk about women not
betraying themselves in relationships. What are some of the most
harmful patterns. I think we've talked about some of them
with the red flags, But is there anyone that we
didn't go over that keep women from finding the love
(32:25):
that they truly deserve.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Let's give it to a single age. Okay, So one
habit that women have that isn't serving them is men
tend to jump into relationships after a breakup too quickly
without enough self reflection. Women tend to stay single too long,
(32:53):
and stay hurt too long, and stay afraid too long.
And part of that is biology. Part of that is
just the need for a woman to feel safe that
it's just not the same for a man. Disproportionately, more
women than men come to me and saying, you know,
(33:13):
it's been two years, it's been three years, I'm still
like hung up on my ex. And I would love
women to just reflect, like are you holding on to
a story here? Like are you not letting yourself move forward?
Related to that is women overall tend to value love
and connection. Men value it too, but women tend to
(33:35):
put that above everything else. And also this there's been
there's so much societal pressure that tells a woman that
her worth is really through her relationship or whether or
not she's in a relationship. I like to empower women
to understand that, yes, value love and connection and I'm
(33:56):
all for you being in a relationship, but there's so
many women who value the love of another more than
they value learning how to love themselves.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
That's profound.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
And of course there's men out there who experience that too,
but it's way more. You see that, way more in women,
this desire to be chosen, when really the woman should
be the chooser. Yes, And so then she betrays herself
because she will do anything to get chosen, and she's
focusing And this is something I see with both genders,
(34:32):
focusing too much on like the status of a person
or how a person looks, or the status of the man,
or how that woman looks, and not enough on character.
But really the main thing is, are you craving love
so much that you are forgetting to love yourself in
that pursuit of a relationship, And can you learn how
(34:55):
to value your freedom as much as you do love
and connection? And then let's just see if then you
can develop more of yourself outside of a relationship, so
you can be a chooser rather than someone who's just
pathetically waiting. And I say that with love and not
with judgment, but just waiting to be chosen. Other red
(35:17):
fogs is you gotta You have to know when someone's
not into you.
Speaker 6 (35:22):
This is like a whole episode of sex in the City.
He's not like there's so many other.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Thing You have to know that and and stop and
stop saying I love you to someone who's showing you
no love. And that's why when I talk about choosing yourself,
you know a lot of people think if I'm going
to choose myself, I have to villainize the other person.
You don't have to villainize a single soul. This is
(35:51):
this is between you and you. This is not about them.
Why are you gonna get mad at someone who for
not being emotionally available to you? You should evaluate why
you're sticking around for that, Or you should evaluate why
you haven't had an open and honest conversation where you
are vulnerable to see if that opens something up between
(36:14):
the two of you. But there's too much Let me
wait for the other person to lead, Let me wait
for the other person to do the thing instead of
you learning the skills first. You know how hungry are
you for a relationship? And is that hunger overriding your
your judgment?
Speaker 6 (36:34):
I love that, Or I also heard you say, are
you waiting in safety or maybe seeking safety. But you're
waiting yes too long, as opposed to just you know,
going in. I love that.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Be the be the chooser, Be the chooser.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
Yeah, Jolanna, Nikki, thank you for bringing such incredible depths
of wisdom you both share on how you support people
in personal development. Gillian, you reminded us that healing is
always possible, that patterns can be broken, and the relationships
that we build, as messy and as complicated as they are,
they're worth the work. And Nikki, thank you for showing
(37:13):
us what true friendship looks like as you brought her
from the back of the class to the front, supporting
on her personal development, and how you support students to
find their best selves. To both of you, I love
the lines surrender and then make a plane on this journey.
Today we surrendered and you led us on an extraordinary
journey sharing your love, your legacy. Thank you so.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Much, Thank you so much for having me for Thank
you Nikki for joining me today. This has been an
absolute honor.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Thank you, thank you so much, Thank you for joining us.
If you enjoy today's conversation, subscribe, share, and follow us
on at my Legacy movement on social media and YouTube.
New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus content every Thursday.
At its core, this podcast honors doctor King's vision of
(38:09):
the beloved community and the power of connection. A Legacy
Plus studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and executive producer
Suzanne Hayward come executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen on the
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
So what are two or three red flash that you
should right?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Okay, let's go there.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Jillian Tareki is the relationship coach millions turn to when
love gets messy, helping people break patterns, build healthy relationships,
and serving up hard truth about love.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You could have dated people who were disproportionately.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
The bigger problem, from swipes to second chances. She breaks
down the realities of modern dating with humor and heart.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
What are the trends that give you hope and what
are the trends that were you?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
More and more people are wanting to With.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Her longtime friend and yoga guru Niki Costello, they dive
into what makes love work and how Jillian turned her
own heartbreak into healing.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I entered a pretty severe dark night of the soul,
and I became obsessed with what makes a relationship work.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Join hosts Martin Luther King the Third, Andrea Waters, King,
Mark Kilberger, and Craig Kilberger for an unfiltered conversation about
real connection, the courage to open your heart, and the
everyday choices that will or break our relationships.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
This is like a whole episode of Sex and the
City Nata. There are some people who you can build
a life with, and there are some people who you.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Should just be.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Welcome to my legacy. Today's guest is Jillian Taureki, a
relationship expert and coach, a New York Times bestselling author,
and an advisor on the Bumble dating app. Jillian, We're
so glad to have you with us here today, and
of course, on my legacy, we always ask our guests
to bring with us someone who knows them well on
a deep personal level, someone who's been with them on
their journey. Would you mind introducing your plus one today?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I absolutely will. First of all, thank you so much
for having me. I'm honored to be here, and today
I introduce Nicki Costello. Nicki is an old, dear friend
of mine and also has played the role of mentor
in my life. She has been my yoga teacher for
seventeen years something insane like that. And I met Niki
(02:07):
and started working with Niki when I was experiencing a
lot of dysregulation in my nervous system and there was
a lot of things going on in my health at
the time where I just didn't feel like stable physically
not mentally. I was searching for more meaning in my
(02:30):
practice and more stability in my practice and more expansion
in my practice. And Niki was the teacher who opened
that up to me. She also officiated my wedding and
even though the marriage did not last, the actual ceremony
was beautiful. And so yeah, just very honored and proud
(02:52):
to have her join us today.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Nikki, you and Julian have been friends for years. Can
you take us back to when you first met and
what is it about Jillian that made you come to
the conclusion I must have her in my life.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I love that.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
Yes, yes, I walked into a classroom and I was
really new to a space, and the class was packed,
it was full, and in the back of the room
there was there was Jillian.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I didn't know her by name, but I recognized something.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
And when when you're a teacher, you recognize or I
do studentship, you recognize this immediate attention connection, a sense
that both of us are doing something purposeful there together.
She liked this particular place in the classroom and it
was always a perspective where she could see me clearly
(03:52):
and everyone else as well. And I really thought about
that a lot, and how Jillian's capacity to focus so
clearly and directly on a person or on whatever it
is that that we were doing. Also was met by
her incredible capacity and inquiry to touch everyone, to reach
(04:16):
everyone where they are. So this is the kind of
friend you always want in your life. One who listens
and one who also serves, one who gives of themselves
fel fully.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So we're in the classroom. How do we get to
that back of the classroom?
Speaker 3 (04:39):
This side?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I was the back, wasn't it, Nicky?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I always went to the back row. Yeah, So this
is why I love the show.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
You get like, who would have ever known that other
than Nicky? With that one perspective that you bring up.
Speaker 6 (04:50):
Now, Jillian, you've mentioned expansion a few times, and that
is a word that really resonates with me. I know
that you said one of your biggest wake up calls
was the day that your husband called to tell you
that he wanted to break up. Was the exact same
day that you suffered a miscarriage and your mother happened
(05:15):
to be dying of terminal cancer. What did you learn
about yourself that day that has carried you through?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah. I often refer to that day as the day
I died, because then there was just like a rebirth
that happened, and I remember having this thought, Oh, this
is what it feels like when your life completely falls apart.
I'm like, this is what it is. And I entered
a pretty severe, dark night of the soul. And you know,
(05:48):
it was people like Nikki who's sitting here just having
her presence as a teacher and as a friend, having
my yoga practice. These are the things that really contributed
to me holding it all together. I was on a
path that was not the right path. And so I
(06:13):
think that when we experience such a catastrophic moment in
our life, we search for meaning, and we want to understand,
you know, why this is all happening, and we want
to figure out how to survive it. We just want
to feel better. And so that's what I did. I
(06:35):
search for meaning in it, and I searched for how
to feel better. And I became obsessed with, well, what
makes a relationship work? Because I was consumed by the
reality that I was in this position where I would be,
you know, left at forty and what does that mean?
(06:56):
And I'm going to be I'm going to get a
divorce and I just couldn't believe it. And I thought
I need to figure this out, because this is I
just need to figure this out. And so here I
am today, still completely dedicated to figuring it out.
Speaker 6 (07:14):
It's like a phoenix that rise from the ashes. Yeah,
that's what I see when I see you and Nikki.
Now you've walked beside Jillian for almost two decades. What's
the most profound change that you've seen in her since
those early years when you first met, when she was
(07:35):
in the back of the classroom taking everything in.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
What I'll focus in on, because I had a very
clear image arise as Jillian was speaking about that day
and the time just after that, is Jillian's humility and vulnerability.
We walked a lot in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and we would
(08:03):
walk along the East River and she we'd always have
sweet Pea Darlian. And so when you really consider, like
we have these moments where everything seems to be falling
apart right and so many people then want to cling
to keeping it together. Jillian could show up, she could
(08:27):
do her work, she could teach yoga with incredible integrity
and commitment, and when when she could retreat from that
and simply walk, she could be vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
She didn't try to hold on to.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
The life that she had had, that she thought she
was making. She stayed in Really what Andrea is an
expansive place. It's an expansive place because it's saying, Okay,
this is all happening.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Can I allow myself.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
To be a little bit bigger, to receive more at
this moment when it feels like everything's been taken away?
So I just listen, and I know something about Jillian
that the world is benefiting from right now, and that is.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
In that state, in that place.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
How do you ask yourself the really important questions and
how to then do those questions take you deeper into
knowing who you are and how to rebuild from a
place of vulnerability, tenderness and the strength that comes from,
(09:46):
you know, going deep and saying I'm I can, I
can change now.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And it's so important to do it because sometimes you'll
be forced into that kind of surrender. But it is,
you know, I think, and that's like the word that
comes to my mind is you really just have to surrender,
and then you have to come up with a.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
Plan surrender and then come up with the plan.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Speaking of a plan, Julian and you laid out in
your new York Times bestseller, It begins with You, Nine
Hard Truths about love. Of those nine truths, which one
do people resist the most but need to hear the most.
Speaker 6 (10:37):
He's asking as a man that's been married for twenty years, thirty.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Thirty we dated.
Speaker 6 (10:46):
We dated for ten years before we were married, so
it's time served.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
So I always say thirty years.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yes, Yes, it is.
Speaker 6 (10:56):
Can I get an amen? Wow?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I would say it's it's the first truth, which is
the title of the book, and the last one. Accountability
is hard for a lot of people. It's hard to
take responsibility for your life when you feel like you've
been dealt a tough hand. It's hard to take responsibility
(11:22):
for your relationship when you're pissed off at your partner.
It's hard to take. It's hard to take responsibility. I mean,
life can be very hard and sad. Things can happen
where you rightfully feel like a victim and you cannot
(11:44):
change your life from that vantage point. It Begins with
You is not about oh, you're the problem, you know,
because I know that becomes somewhat of a platitude. It's
not that, it's just that you are the common denominator
and all your relationships. That does not mean that you
are the only problem. You could have dated people who
(12:07):
were disproportionately the bigger problem. You still chose them. And
some people like to say, oh right, my biggest problem
is that I choose terrible partners. Okay, I'll give you that.
You're telling me that when you were with these terrible
partners you were an angel all the way through. Impossible
because we're human. So the first one is I really
(12:29):
had to get through to people, which I believe I did. Hey,
this is not about blame. This isn't about making it
your fault. This is about empowerment that truly it does
begin with you, and if you adopt that mindset, if
you will, you then have enormous power to change your
(12:55):
love life and your life in general. And then the
last one, which is a doozy, is you must make
peace with your parents. I think that a lot of
people have resistance to that. That chapter is not just
about making peace with a quote unquote hard parent, It's
just make peace with who they are. Look at it
(13:15):
from different perspectives. I tell a story in that book
about this girl who I worked with. I'm twenty seven
years old Colombian and she was raised by her single
Colombian mom and they came to this country and when
they did, this woman she had barely any money. They
escaped an abusive father and it was just her and
(13:37):
her daughter. And this woman started cleaning people's homes and
built a multi million dollar company over twelve years. But
when you think about what a woman has to go
through in order to become that, she's got to become tough.
(13:58):
And so she taught her daughter be tough and be strong,
and girls don't cry, which is nuts because usually it's
boys that get that messaging. Boys aren't supposed to cry.
So she and her mother's intention. She was very close
with her mom, by the way, and her mom ended
up passing from cancer, and she had come to me
(14:19):
in her grief and had come to me trying to
figure out why I was never working with men, and
she had not. Surprisingly, this girl had an amazing career.
I mean, her mom taught her how to take care
of herself, how to not take no for an answer,
how to be strong, and it has served her so
well in her life, just not in her love life. Yes,
(14:44):
And it's because she really internalized this idea that she
could never be vulnerable and so making peace with her
mom who passed, who she loved and was well taken
care of by her, was just understanding what her mom
really really wanted for her and not to have that
(15:07):
story replaying in her head that she can't be vulnerable.
Speaker 6 (15:10):
And I love the fact too of that. This is
when you really think about that, it really is empowering
to start and it's interesting and you start with which
is kind of the opposite most is I kind of
start with your parents and end with you. But it's
so interesting, you know, you start with you and then
(15:31):
ultimately I think going along the steps, you have that
the capacity then to look at your parents and that
relationship with the more beautiful and holistic view coming up.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Jillian calls out the dating red flags you can't fix,
can't ignore, and should absolutely walk away from.
Speaker 6 (15:54):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Jillian, you recently became a relationship expert and product advisor
for Bumble, of course, one of the largest dating apps
in the world. Yes, so, I'm a data geek, and
I gotta say that one of the coolest things about
this role is I imagine you get to see a
lot of the inside data on a meta level of
what that actually looks like. So when you are looking
at all of that data, what are the trends that
(16:19):
give you hope and what are the trends that were
you The.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Data that gives me hope is that there are people
who more and more people are wanting to build healthier
relationships more and because of that, they are more willing
(16:44):
to have conversations and share how their past experiences has
shaped them today. And more people are having insight into
what doesn't really work for them in a relationship, so
then they can more easily vet people. Honestly, it's like, Okay,
(17:10):
now I understand that actually it's not just how I
think you look and how you think I look like
do our values align? And so what I'm seeing is
that there's a movement towards really getting people to understand
what their values are and to share that to get
(17:31):
better matches. So that I think is very positive data.
I think that the troubling data is what has always
been there in just dating apps and dating culture in general,
is that technology in the swiping just makes it so
that we're treating people like they're incredibly disposable. Then there's
(17:56):
just all technology runs like on an algorithm, right, and
that's very very complex. I can't even begin to wrap
my head around it. But sometimes you're not getting you
won't be getting the right matches because the algorithm has
somehow shifted. It's like the same thing on social media.
Some people, your followers won't be seeing some of your
(18:18):
content because there's an algorithm shift. So in that way,
that's something that that's a hurdle that I think is
continuously there for us to have to overcome when it
comes to technology in general and better at matching and dating.
And then you know, another positive piece of data is
(18:40):
that I think that some places I know Bumble is
for sure, you know, really committed to safety for women
because let's face it, if you're on a dating app,
you're interacting with strangers, and women always have to be
very careful about that because people will say, oh, you know,
(19:01):
technology has ruined us, or dating apps is routing ruined dating,
And then I and then I often wonder has it
or has it just exposed us? You know, is it
dating apps that has created so many emotionally unavailable people
or is it just exposing it because we're seeing more.
(19:23):
You know, back in the day, people we speaking of community,
people were much more engaged in community in our society.
So they would go more to they would join that
bowling league, they would go to the church, they would
go to the synagogue, they would go to the mosque,
they would they would, they would do these things, and
(19:44):
oftentimes we would meet through community or a friend of
a friend. Now you're meeting people and they truly are
complete strangers, so there's no accountability, and that's where things
have gotten very compl But it's never been easy to
find love. I've never thought about that.
Speaker 6 (20:05):
I've never thought about the fact of there was some
type of connection to some type of community, like we
were set up on a blind age. Yeah, so even
though so it still was, I've never thought about it
in that capacity. And when we were leading up to
this interview with you, you know, you know, I did
what any good girlfriend would do, is so I asked
(20:26):
a lot of my single friends. So I kind of
have like a tale of two camps, right, a tale
of two single ladies. There's one who is like running
far away now from dating world or dating apps, and
it's kind of of the mind frame that if it happens,
it happens, and when it happens, It happens. And then
then there's my other friend who's like, you know, kind
(20:48):
of tipping their toe in and out and in and out,
but not necessarily committed. I'm going to go in for
a few weeks and then Okay, that's it. I'm out.
Is there a strategy, if you will, that you have
found that you would offer to my single wonderful friends, so.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
You can always take the route like friend A, who
is like, I'm just going to live my life and
I'm going to trust that when the timing is right,
I will meet this person and let it happen organically.
And I think that that's I think when you like
your life and you don't feel lonely and you're not
(21:31):
and you don't have a clock ticking when it comes
to your fertility and you want to have children, then
I think that's a great option. What I think is
equally a great option is if you want a relationship,
you gotta go get it, and that means you cannot
(21:52):
let anything stand in the way. Go on lots of dates,
keep prepare to be disappointed on most of them, and
get really good at vetting people, really good practice your
social skills, because most people have very weak social skills
(22:12):
and treat it like a job that you're going to
meet someone. But that doesn't mean that you burn yourself
out or exhausted. You still have to live your life,
but you just have to be determined. I love that
when you're in between and you're kind of tipping your toes.
I've got nothing but empathy for that. I get it.
(22:33):
Chances are you're not going to meet someone in that state.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Jillian, what is your hottest take? Pawn very much intended
on the role chemistry plays when searching for love.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
It plays a huge role. It's very very very important,
and it's incredibly unreliable and it's not enough. So there's
lots of different ways to look at it. So first
of all, there's there's various levels to chemistry. The obvious,
(23:07):
which is the physical sexual attraction. Then there's emotional chemistry.
You have great you feel like a great spiritual connection.
There's intellectual chemistry you have great conversations where you feel inspired.
You have playful chemistry like you have like a good friendship.
So there's various levels to chemistry, and you know there,
(23:30):
I think they're all important. If I'm being honest, Sometimes
we mistake, there's no spark yet. In other words, sometimes
like feeling an immediate spark of chemistry does not mean anything.
In fact, oftentimes when we do, it's because of For
(23:52):
some people, because it's familiar, they remind you of mom
or dad, and it's not necessarily a good thing. For
some people, it's the per looks exactly like the archetype
in your mind of what you consider to be beautiful
or handsome. If someone really truly figures out the nuance
and what chemistry is and why it happens, they will
(24:14):
win the Nobel Peace Prize, because in many ways it
truly is a mystery, and there's lots of different theories,
and all the theories are sound, but no one can
really point their finger on it, except for the fact
that you could feel immediate chemistry with the person who's
going to abuse you. You can feel immediate chemistry with someone.
And what people don't understand is that there are some
(24:37):
people who you can build a life with, and there
are some people who you should just have a night with.
In the beginning, when we are flooded with hormones and
we are flooded with lust, and we are because everything
in the beginning is novelty and adventure and the unknown
(24:58):
and a promise of the And when we are flooded
with novelty, adventure and hope, our systems are flooded with aliveness.
And in that aliveness we feel so much chemistry with someone.
But staying in love is a skill, and you have
(25:19):
to work on those things. You have to bring a
liveness to the relationship. You can't just be passive because
in the beginning, you can be totally passive because your
hormones are doing it all for you, and the newness
of it is doing it all for you. To be
a good partner and to build a good relationship, it
(25:41):
begins with you, and you have to bring that energy
to a relationship. You just have tory. But the thing
is what happens is that, as you know, in a relationship,
when we're really close with someone, we're really comfortable, we
start to treat them like family. And what do we
do with family. We regress and we kind of take
them for granted and we're a little bit passive, and
(26:04):
we can't do that in a romantic relationship. So chemistry
is important, but you have to be self aware enough
to know your patterns and are you only having chemistry
with people who are unavailable? Are you only having chemistry
with people who treat you like crap? Or are you
able to value other things in a person? And sometimes
(26:27):
chemistry can grow. I think for men it's more instantaneous,
but for women it's different because as a woman starts
to feel safe with someone, as she starts to feel
seen and heard, that's when she starts to open up more.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Scrolling won't change your life, but subscribing just might tap
that button and stay connected to conversations that can't. Now
back to my legacy.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Julie, you kind of alluded to some of this, but
so what are two of three we read flags that
you should run right away?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Okay, let's go there. When someone is all they're doing
is bad mouthing their ex and their family, which, by
the way, is different than sharing a very difficult experience
you had with someone. But talk about a victim who
(27:28):
never takes responsibility. It's always everyone else's fault. I had
a client once and her picker, meaning like what she
her internal compass of who she chose, was just broken.
And she started to date this guy and he had
the crazy ex and she was going on and he
(27:51):
convinced her on and on and on and on and
on about how emotionally unstable his exes. But he was
married to her for ten years, so what does that
say about him? And actually what turned out is that
he was incredibly emotionally unstable and the two of them
were creating an incredibly emotionally unstable relationship. So that's red
(28:12):
flag number one. Another one is someone who's just not
investing their time in you. They are not really trying
to get to know you. They may want to sleep
with you, or they may want to have a fun
time with you. But if you want a relationship and
someone is not actually asking you questions about your life,
(28:37):
asking you about you, know, there's no curiosity there to
really get under the hood of the car and understand
who you are. Huge red flag. And that's different than
a first date when someone might be very nervous, because
a lot of times people are nervous, especially men who
I've worked with, They're very very nervous and self conscious
(28:57):
on a first date. And what men tend to do
is then just talk about themselves and not ask any questions,
and oftentimes it's just coming from an insecurity. This is like,
you know, you've had a few dates and it's just
not progressing, and you feel like the person's not asking
you any questions, and so that's a red flag. And
(29:17):
then a third red flag. You have to tune into
your body and check in and just ask yourself, how
do I feel when I'm with this person? Do I
feel comfortable? Do I feel at ease? Do I feel
like I can express an opinion safely? Do I feel
(29:38):
like I can be myself with this person? If the
answer to any of those questions is no, that's your
internal alarm system going off, trying to get your attention.
Speaker 6 (29:49):
So way back in the nineteen hundreds during our first date,
were you nervous? Do you remember?
Speaker 1 (30:01):
I'm always nervous.
Speaker 6 (30:04):
I'm still making nervous sometimes now.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
So, Nikki, let me ask you a question. You've taught
people for decades about the importance of the mind body connection.
If you could teach everyone one thing from yoga that
would help their relationship, what would that be?
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Trusting oneself?
Speaker 5 (30:35):
When one is engaged in practice yoga practice, a meditation
practice and has a connection to their their spirit, like
really their heart. In that state of connection, there's such trust,
there's such a sense of being I am I am
with myself, I'm good, and many of us practice for
(30:59):
a long time to be able to fully not only
embrace that, but trust the truth of that feeling in
our own hearts. We find many ways to escape that,
or we have doubts or we have confusion in all
our relationships and aspects of our life. When you're sitting
with yourselves and you're like, I I'm good, like I
(31:23):
trust myself, then a spiritual practice has come to fruition.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
M I love how that connects back too, to Jillian's
like the first principle that it starts with you. I
love that how that connects back for all circle too, Like,
so you can come to a point of I'm good
no matter what, I am good, and I can trust myself. Yes, yes,
(31:52):
I'm gonna jump single ladies, ladies, let's do it, because
there are more single women today in their thirties, forties,
and fifties.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Than ever before.
Speaker 6 (32:04):
So I know Jillian that you talk about women not
betraying themselves in relationships. What are some of the most
harmful patterns. I think we've talked about some of them
with the red flags, But is there anyone that we
didn't go over that keep women from finding the love
(32:25):
that they truly deserve.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Let's give it to a single age. Okay, So one
habit that women have that isn't serving them is men
tend to jump into relationships after a breakup too quickly
without enough self reflection. Women tend to stay single too long,
(32:53):
and stay hurt too long, and stay afraid too long.
And part of that is biology. Part of that is
just the need for a woman to feel safe that
it's just not the same for a man. Disproportionately, more
women than men come to me and saying, you know,
(33:13):
it's been two years, it's been three years, I'm still
like hung up on my ex. And I would love
women to just reflect, like are you holding on to
a story here? Like are you not letting yourself move forward?
Related to that is women overall tend to value love
and connection. Men value it too, but women tend to
(33:35):
put that above everything else. And also this there's been
there's so much societal pressure that tells a woman that
her worth is really through her relationship or whether or
not she's in a relationship. I like to empower women
to understand that, yes, value love and connection and I'm
(33:56):
all for you being in a relationship, but there's so
many women who value the love of another more than
they value learning how to love themselves.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
That's profound.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
And of course there's men out there who experience that too,
but it's way more. You see that, way more in women,
this desire to be chosen, when really the woman should
be the chooser. Yes, And so then she betrays herself
because she will do anything to get chosen, and she's
focusing And this is something I see with both genders,
(34:32):
focusing too much on like the status of a person
or how a person looks, or the status of the man,
or how that woman looks, and not enough on character.
But really the main thing is, are you craving love
so much that you are forgetting to love yourself in
that pursuit of a relationship, And can you learn how
(34:55):
to value your freedom as much as you do love
and connection? And then let's just see if then you
can develop more of yourself outside of a relationship, so
you can be a chooser rather than someone who's just
pathetically waiting. And I say that with love and not
with judgment, but just waiting to be chosen. Other red
(35:17):
fogs is you gotta You have to know when someone's
not into you.
Speaker 6 (35:22):
This is like a whole episode of sex in the City.
He's not like there's so many other.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Thing You have to know that and and stop and
stop saying I love you to someone who's showing you
no love. And that's why when I talk about choosing yourself,
you know a lot of people think if I'm going
to choose myself, I have to villainize the other person.
You don't have to villainize a single soul. This is
(35:51):
this is between you and you. This is not about them.
Why are you gonna get mad at someone who for
not being emotionally available to you? You should evaluate why
you're sticking around for that, Or you should evaluate why
you haven't had an open and honest conversation where you
are vulnerable to see if that opens something up between
(36:14):
the two of you. But there's too much Let me
wait for the other person to lead, Let me wait
for the other person to do the thing instead of
you learning the skills first. You know how hungry are
you for a relationship? And is that hunger overriding your
your judgment?
Speaker 6 (36:34):
I love that, Or I also heard you say, are
you waiting in safety or maybe seeking safety. But you're
waiting yes too long, as opposed to just you know,
going in. I love that.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Be the be the chooser, Be the chooser.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
Yeah, Jolanna, Nikki, thank you for bringing such incredible depths
of wisdom you both share on how you support people
in personal development. Gillian, you reminded us that healing is
always possible, that patterns can be broken, and the relationships
that we build, as messy and as complicated as they are,
they're worth the work. And Nikki, thank you for showing
(37:13):
us what true friendship looks like as you brought her
from the back of the class to the front, supporting
on her personal development, and how you support students to
find their best selves. To both of you, I love
the lines surrender and then make a plane on this journey.
Today we surrendered and you led us on an extraordinary
journey sharing your love, your legacy. Thank you so.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Much, Thank you so much for having me for Thank
you Nikki for joining me today. This has been an
absolute honor.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Thank you, thank you so much, Thank you for joining us.
If you enjoy today's conversation, subscribe, share, and follow us
on at my Legacy movement on social media and YouTube.
New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus content every Thursday.
At its core, this podcast honors doctor King's vision of
(38:09):
the beloved community and the power of connection. A Legacy
Plus studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and executive producer
Suzanne Hayward come executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen on the
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Craig Kielburger
Marc Kielburger
Martin Luther King III
Arndrea Waters King
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