March 24, 2026 • 50 mins
Originally aired September 30, 2025
In celebration of Women’s History Month, we’re revisiting one of our most powerful conversations about resilience, friendship, and the strength of women who lift each other up.
Entrepreneur and bestselling author Marie Forleo joins My Legacy podcast with her ride-or-die best friend Kris Carr for a raw and deeply personal conversation about navigating life’s hardest moments—and the power of having someone by your side through it all.
Join hosts Martin Luther King III, Arndrea Waters King, Marc Kielburger, and Craig Kielburger as Marie and Kris turn hard-won wisdom into practical tools you can use right now. Together, they share how their friendship has carried them through illness, family crises, and the pressures of building meaningful lives and careers.
Together, they reveal how:
- A simple mantra — “everything is figureoutable” — can help you face any challenge
- Fear and anger can become fuel for courage and growth
- A “friendship code” can transform how you show up in moments of crisis
- Facing grief—not outrunning it—leads to real healing
- Long-term love thrives when you celebrate differences instead of trying to erase them
Don’t miss an episode—subscribe now to catch new episodes every Tuesday. For bonus content from the episode, listen here or watch on YouTube.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
One of the things that I always wrestle with is
really like this ultra competitive comparison kind of thing in
my head that I'm not doing enough.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Marie Fourlio is a powerhouse entrepreneur, the creator of Marie TV,
a best selling author, and a world class coach. But
in this conversation, Marie isn't in mentoring mode. She's opening
up in a big way. Alongside her best friend Chris Carr.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
She is my first, my last, my only phone called
when everything is going right, or most frequently when everything
is going wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And they don't hold back from the heartbreak to the healing.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
She opened the door for me to be able to
ask for the kind of support I needed in a
really traumatic moment.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
The shit was hitting the fan in my life, and
I had more perspective when it really hit the fan
in her life.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
And after digging deep, they bring the laughter and real talk.
Only your ride or die would to share.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
The only person in the world who can say painful
truth and to not have nymanna like slapper.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Is the only time you can change somebody is when
they're in diverse Now that a.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Preach joined host Martin Luther King the Third Andrea Waters
king Mark Kilberger and Craig Kilberger for an honest, unapologetic
conversation about relationships, finding light in the darkest moments, and
the biggest lessons learned along the way.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I stood there and I was like WHOA.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Before today's episode begins, please be advised this conversation includes
discussions about suicide and mental health. Some of the content
may be distressing. If you or someone you know is struggling,
help is available. Call the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline
at nine to eight eight or text home to seven
four one seven four one to reach the crisis text line.
(02:03):
These services are free and available twenty four to seven.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Welcome to My Legacy. Today's guest is Marie Fourlio. Marie
built her business and platform on purpose, resilience, an unshakable belief,
and she's made a career of helping others unlock the same. Marie,
We're so honored to have you with us here today
and on My Legacy. We always ask our guests to
bring a plus one, someone who they admire, they turn
(02:29):
to in times of challenge and grief and hope, someone
who's their ride or die. Marie, can you introduce who
your plus one is?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Today I brought the one and only magical Unicorn, herself,
Miss Chris Carr. And for those of you who do
not know my best friend in the entire world, she
is a powerhouse herself. She is a multiple New York
Times Number one best selling author. She is someone who
has spent over two decades of her life not just
(02:57):
surviving but thriving with cant and has inspired millions to
do the same. She's got books, she's got podcasts, through
her coaching, through everything she shares with the world. The
New York Times has called her a new role model,
and Oprah has named her a force for good and
for good reason. And personally, Chris is literally she's my
(03:18):
soul sister. Like we talk about this all the time.
We do not understand how we are not legitimate family,
but we are meant family, and she is the person.
We were talking about this the other day, like we
have never let each other down, and we started celebrating
our friend anniversary. I think it's been over fifteen years.
(03:38):
And she is my first, my last, my only phone
call when everything is going right or most frequently when
everything is going wrong, because that happens to all of
us in life.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I had a spectacular introduction.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Chris, When did you know that Marie was going to
be your soul sister, your friends, your lifelong writer, die.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Companion from the first moment I spoke to her. So
we at each other because back in the day when
you're doing everything and you're building your life and you're
building your business, and you're wearing all the hats as
young puppy entrepreneurs, we were also our customer service. And
so I bought one of her products because so many
(04:18):
people had said to me, you should, you should know
about Marie. You should. You guys would really love each other,
and so I was like, Oh, who is this Marie?
And so I went and I bought her live in
the moment booty camp. And I was like, I don't
know what any of that is, but it sounds like
I need to know what it is and have a
little bit of that in my life. And we got
(04:38):
on the phone and we have not stopped talking ever since.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
That is so so special. Let me Marie ask a question.
You grew up in a small town in New Jersey
and have said your mom was a big factor in
shaping your grit. What do you carry forward from those
early years.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Well so much. But I think the quick story that
I will tell that has really shaped my life was
the fact that my mom, like so many of our parents,
didn't grow up with a lot of resources. She actually
had two alcoholic parents and grew up in the Nork,
New Jersey, and she learned, really by necessity, how to
stretch a dollar bill around a block like five or
(05:20):
six times. And she had made a promise to herself
when she was young that she would somehow find a
way to a better life. And so one of my
best memories as a kid was sitting around her kitchen
table in New Jersey, and it was Sundays and cutting
out coupons because my mom loved to teach me all
the ways that our family could save money. And so
I think most of the people here were all of
(05:41):
a certain age where you might remember something that were
called proofs of purchase, where if you purchased a bunch
of boxes of cereal for particular brand or right milk cartons,
and you collected all those little squares and you mailed
them in, you could get cool stuff like cooking utensils
or a recipe book or something. And my mom's favorite
thing that she loved more than anything was this tiny
(06:03):
little AMFM radio that she got for free from Tropicana
Orange Juice. So it looked like an orange I had
red white straw sticking out of the top that was
the antenna. And as a kid, I knew I could
always find my mom somewhere from listening to the tiny
little sound of this radio. So one day coming home
from school, walking home, and I hear like Diana Ross blasting,
(06:26):
you know, really small out of this radio. And as
I approach the house, it's coming from a weird orientation,
and I look up and I see my tiny little
mom perched precariously on the roof of our two story house,
no ladder, no nothing. I'm terrified. I'm like, Mom, what
are you doing up there? Are you okay? And she
yells down and she's like, ree, don't worry about it.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
The roofer.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
You know, there's a leak. The roofer said it was
going to be at least five hundred bucks to fix it.
I said, screw that, I'm doing it myself. So that
gives you a little flavor of MoMA Poorlia sounds a
me So for context, this was the nineteen eighties, right,
This is all pre Internet, this is pre Google, this
is pre YouTube. And my mom only had a high
school education. So one day it was in the fall,
(07:12):
I'm coming home from school and it was dark out.
It's Jersey, right, It's like four o'clock and it's spooky already.
And as I'm approaching the house, everything is dark and
it's quiet. Now I'm Italian American and if your house
is dark and quiet, this is not good news. So
I'm terrified. I'm like, what's going on? Where's my mom?
(07:33):
Got that pit in my stomach, like something is seriously wrong.
So I walk in the house silence, and then I
start hearing these little clicks and clacks from the kitchen.
I tiptoe over and I see my mom in the kitchen.
She's hunched over the table and it looks like an
operating room. There's a spotlight on screwdrivers, electrical tape, and
(07:54):
then in about twenty pieces was a completely dismantled Tropicana
range radio. And I stood back and I was like, Mom,
are you okay?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
That's your favorite thing? Is it broken? And she looks
up at me and she says, rae. She goes, I'm fine,
She's like the antenna was a little busted, the dial
wasn't working, so I'm fixing it. And I stood there
and I watched her work her magic, and then I
finally thought to ask the question I should have always asked,
which was this, Hey, mom, how do you know how
to do so many different things that you've never done before?
(08:27):
But nobody's shown you how to do it? And she
puts down her screwdriver and she cocks her head to
the side and she said, ray, what are you talking about.
Nothing in life is that complicated. If you roll up
your sleeves, you get in there and you do it,
everything is figure outable. And I kid you, guys not.
I stood there and I was like, whoa everything is
(08:48):
everything is figure out? Well, I was like, everything else, big,
Oh my goodness, everything is figure outible. And so it
was just this belief in possibility and grittiness and going
for it even though you have no clue what the
heck you're doing. That really became the driving force in
my life and still is today.
Speaker 6 (09:07):
And it was a great book. Yes, I grew up
with a single parent. She was a nurse and first
black nurse in her hometown, and very much so like
one day I would come home, even if she's worked
a double shift, and she had the outlets pulled out
literally of the wall, and she changed she was figuring
(09:28):
out how to change the electrical outlets in our house,
or you know. So it just reminded me of such
a beautiful book and so important for young girls. That
again that I bought not only a copy for myself
but for our daughter, and we read and studied and
talked about it together.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
That looks me so much. I can hardly even tell
you and thank you for sharing that. And I think
that so many of us, Chris, I know you come
from such scrappy beginnings as well, and we learned these
invaluable lessons about how to not let the fact that
you may not know or understand something stop you from
moving forward.
Speaker 7 (10:06):
Maria, I wanted to ask you a question. You know,
it was many years ago when you were twenty three
years old you had the courage to launch Marie TV
when many women at that time were not creating that
type of content. And that was courageous, that was adacious,
that was wonderful and obviously been now very successful. I'm
sure there's been lots of upstowns in that process. But
how did you find your confidence and trust in yourself
(10:29):
to go ahead and to create that vision, to create
that platform, to create that voice.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I was born in seventy five, so it was kind
of grown up in the eighties there. And my idea
of a successful, powerful business woman had like huge shoulder
pads and she was in this corner glass office. It
was kind of imagery that I think I just saw
in the media. And I had this notion that one
had to be perfectly educated and speak at a particular
(10:56):
level and use particular language in order to be successful.
And I remember being on Wall Street, on the floor
of the New York Stock Exchange and trying to kind
of step into my idealized image of what a successful
young woman was. And I tried to do that in
the magazine world, both on the advertising side and the
editorial side, and kind of all these different beautiful opportunities
(11:18):
that were career opportunities. But I kept feeling completely disconnected
because I was trying to be something that I wasn't.
And so after feeling like a failure and leaving jobs,
even though I had a very strong work ethic and
I was never afraid of hard work, I couldn't deny
from a soul level that I wasn't where my soul wanted.
Speaker 6 (11:42):
Me to be.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
And the moment that I relaxed and said, you know what,
I don't speak perfectly, I don't have I graduated from college.
I was the first in my family to go to college.
But I don't have higher degrees. I am way far
from perfect. I'm quirky, I'm weird, I have a strange
sense of humor. I like all of these different things.
And I started just expressing the true essence of who
(12:03):
I am. That's actually when things started to come together.
So releasing this notion of perfection, releasing this notion of
having to be someone that I genuinely wasn't, that was
the only place it came from. That and just a
lot of pain of failure of trying to be something
I wasn't and it did not work out.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Marie, you spoke about where from pain comes courage, and
in the same way, Chris, we all know your story.
The world knows your story. How you know in your
early thirties you received what you know talk about pain
and courage. What would have been a devastating for most
people diagnosis in a rare and curable stage four cancer,
and instead of retreating from it, you built a movement
(12:44):
around health and wellness. Take us back to that moment,
and can you help us understand where you found that
courage from when you decided to share your story and
to build your movement.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I think my courage came out of fear, but also
out of anger, if I'm to be totally honest, because
you know, when you're in your early thirties and or
work for a lot of people young adults with cancer,
when you're just starting out, you're trying to get your
life together. You're trying to figure out who you're going
to be and how you're going to make a living,
and you know, maybe you've got dreams of starting a
(13:18):
family or whatever that is. And then something like an
incurable cancer diagnosis comes your way. It's so destabilizing, and
so the initial thing was I'm terrified, am I going
to live? I'm going to die? So I have this
rare cancer that can be slow growing, but it can
also be very aggressive, and so for me, it was
(13:39):
a first and foremost find the best doctor, figure out
what this thing is, and then come up with a
game plan. And the first doctor suggested a triple organ transplant,
and I thought that that was crazy. I had never
heard of anybody surviving something like that, and so I
said thank you, but no thank you again. Much like Marie,
(14:00):
I didn't have a higher degree. I actually wasn't even
interested in health and wellness. I figured, like fiber was
for later. Right now, I got to get my shit
together make a living, and so this was not something
that I thought was important or something that I want
to spend a lot of time educating myself on. But
then when you're up against the ropes, you find out
(14:20):
real quickly what you do need to put your focus on,
and for me, it was my health. And so I
went about interviewing all of these different doctors, and I
think it was my first experience of saying, Okay, honestly,
these people work for me, and I'm looking for my
second in command. It was my first first opportunity of
being a CEO, and it was just it was becoming
(14:43):
the CEO of my health, which is what I often
talk about. As I kept meeting more people and interviewing them,
I decided, Okay, once I find my second in command,
then I really have to look outside of the box,
and when I finally did, he was like, look, this
can be grow slow growing, it can be aggressive, all
the things I just share with you. Sometimes it can change.
(15:04):
And so we're just going to watch and wait, and
we're going to track you, and we're going to wait
for cancer to make the first move, and we're going
to get a baseline and until then, you're going to
watch and live. And I said, well, I don't really
know what that means, and he said, go figure it out.
And so it was through that fear and that frustration
(15:25):
that I decided to carve another path. And for me,
I think the anger was really about how come there
isn't a lot of information out there for people like me,
a young adult living with stage four cancer who doesn't
have the kind of opportunities to like have chemo and
radiation and surgery, And how come there isn't there are
(15:48):
any books or media or resources for people like us
who are living with these chronic diseases. And in a
lot of ways, you know, especially back then and even
before then, the Big Sea was still something that you
whispered about, you know, And so I think it was
part of the reason why I came out with the
film crazy sexy cancer. Everybody said, do not call it that,
(16:12):
and I was like, oh, I'm calling it that, And honestly,
that's where it began. It came from my own pain,
as Marie would say, and then it just turned into
something else, especially when you take the thing that is
so difficult for you and then you can Marie and
I share this in common a lot, which is we
use our creativity as tools for our healing. And I
(16:35):
think that that's something that we both champion in each other.
Is her creative power is something that I'm in awe of.
It's something I always want her to continue to like
put a foot on the gas and move towards because
it's this unlimited supply of possibility and potential that I
get really inspired by. And I think I have moments
(16:56):
where I've offered the same experience for her, but ultimately
to you know, just get back to your question. I think, Marie, now,
did it came from pain?
Speaker 6 (17:05):
And I just want to take a moment because, particularly
if there are young women that are listening. But when
what both of you all have just talked about, you know,
I think sometimes we want to gloss over fear, anger, pain,
but leaning into.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Those things you know.
Speaker 6 (17:27):
You know, we I say to our daughter all the
time that you know, courage is not not being afraid,
it's doing it even when you are afraid. But if
they can learn young women at such a young age
that in those moments, something beautiful can be birthed.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Scrolling won't change your life, but subscribing just might tap
that button and stay connected to conversations that kept.
Speaker 6 (17:54):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Oh my gosh, I'm so glad you brought Chris. I
gotta say it, and why immediately. The friendship is so amazing, Marie.
If I can ask a question, I always deeply moved
here and Chris speak a moment ago. I'm so curious
what has she taught you? Not through her words, though,
but how she lives her life.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I feel like I learned from my best friend every day,
and in terms of just witnessing how she shows up
in the world for everyone else. I have never witnessed
someone so committed to her family and her friends, like
when you are on Chris's inner circle. The things that
(18:34):
she's taught me is just you stop at nothing to
show up and dive full in when your people need you,
and Honestly, I've gone through the past probably a little
over two years for me, has been one of the
hardest of my life. Both of my parents their health declining.
And I know this is something in you know, a
journey that many of us go through in various ways,
(18:57):
and for me it's been the past few years. And
I think watching Chris over the course of our friendship,
how she showed up has really given me a lot
of strength for how I wanted to show up for
my own family in their time of need.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
And in fact, even on your Instagram, there is something
that I would like to share. You said that my
mom almost died last year twice my dad's health nos
died at the same time. It was the most hellish,
painful six months of my life. Can you talk a
(19:32):
little bit more about those six months and what you
learned in those moments of crisis.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yes, so those six months extended to over two years
and essentially, you know, and I'll say this, and I
think it's important. What I'm about to say is it
can be heard in a way that's like, wow, this
is shocking. But I want to say this because I
think many people experience this in their lives and have
(20:00):
trouble finding people to relate to. But my mom after
being devastated by COVID in twenty twenty three. She's a
tiny woman. I've told the story about her already. She's
extremely resilient, and within about two weeks of having COVID
and no one knew it, she lost almost thirty pounds,
so she looked like a skeleton. She was in the
emergency room and the doctors kept telling her there was
(20:22):
nothing wrong with her, and if you would have seen her,
you would have said, she's probably close to death, like
what are you smoking. So, as a person who wanted
to dive in and say, you know, we need to
handle this, it was like, at the same time that
my mom was crumbling, my dad we realized his memory
(20:42):
wasn't just some memory issues but going into dementia slash Alzheimer's.
So everything was crashing at once fast forward because it
was impossible for us to find anything that would help
my mom. She actually tried to take her own life
three times over the course of the past two years.
And so as you can imagine, very traumatic, very difficult,
(21:06):
and navigating quote unquote healthcare system that's not really designed
to get people well has been difficult, to say the least,
I think it has. The whole experience has shown me
really how many challenges we have in this country. You know,
as someone who prides myself on being a boss in
(21:28):
many ways, being hopefully a somewhat good communicator, and have
an ability to kind of navigate complex systems, it has
made my heartbreak to think about so many others who
have similar struggles, who don't have the experience or the
ability to do some of the things that I've been
able to do. The system is crushing. So I'll pause
(21:49):
there in a moment, but I just wanted to say
that for anyone who might be listening right now who
is going through an experience with chronic illness aging parents,
my heart goes out to you. It will not last forever.
I think one of the things I've learned is how
important it is to give yourself breaks and take care
of yourself. And I think we need to keep having
(22:09):
these conversations because our population is aging, and we don't
really have the infrastructure or the support to help people
really exist in their last stages of life with dignity,
with safety, with care, and then all of the caregivers,
many of which we're in our thirties, forties, fifties and
sixties who are struggling with growing a family and their
(22:33):
children and then also having to take care of your
elders as well. So I think there's a lot of
opportunity for growth and transformation there.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
And how did Chris show up for you in those
in those six months?
Speaker 1 (22:45):
So can I tell you guys this? So we have
we have a code in text which is essentially an emoji,
and it's an ambulance emoji. That emoji is not used
all the time, but when one of us sends the
other the ambulance emoji, it is essentially I need you
right now. And we never quote unquote cry wolf. But
(23:06):
the way that Chris showed up for me is like
when I sent those emojis, like hey, this is happening
right now, she dropped everything and just strategized with me.
And she would often ask me, do you need me
to listen? Do we need to brainstorm? Do you need
me to get in my car? So it was kind
of that level of knowing that I was probably in
(23:28):
a really fragile state and that she opened the door
for me to be able to ask for the kind
of support I needed in a really traumatic moment.
Speaker 7 (23:40):
It's really on honor that and just myself and my
brother Craig. We lost our father about a handful of
weeks ago, but nine ten weeks ago. Sorry, thank you,
We appreciate that. So we do have a good understanding
of the dysfunction of the medical system that really separates
the mind and the body. And just want to say
how challenging that it is. And I want to say
(24:01):
thank you for sharing that, and especially for sharing with
such detail and such rawness about the challenges your mom's
gone through, especially the last little while, because aging is difficult,
but aging parents without a medical system that really understands
the wholeness of that process is equally difficult. Chris, I
want to direct the same type of question for you
(24:22):
to give listeners inspiration, advice and courage. Let's take us
back to the pandemic, when your father was sick and
was dying, your business was struggling because of the pandemic,
and you just celebrated quote unquote your twentieth anniversary of
having incurable cancer. Now, for anybody else, any one of
those would have been a crisis, but this is must
(24:43):
have felt like an emotional tsunami. What pulled you through,
what got you through through that moment? What advice do
you have for people that are going through very challenging times.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
I look back at that time, and I know all
the things that Marie has gone through in these for years,
and I feel like I was just a little ahead,
meaning like the shit was hitting the fan in my life,
and I had more perspective when it really hit the
fan in her life. And so a lot of the
(25:14):
mistakes that I made in my own life I could
try to avoid in hers. So even saying things like
do you want me to listen, as opposed to just
barreling in with advice you have to do this, you
have to do that, you have to do this, you know,
was something that I learned through my own experience of grief.
I did not want to touch grief. So as somebody
who has lived with stage four cancer for over two decades,
(25:36):
you would think that grief would be an emotion that
I am very familiar with, because there's a lot of
grief that comes from the loss of an identity, the
loss of physical capabilities, the loss of you know, your health.
And yet I had a blind spot because it felt
so hot and so big to me that if I
thought that if I even touched it, and what would
(25:58):
happen is my whole life foot fall apart. Because there
was so much systemic and generational trauma in those places
and in those hot spots, and so I kept avoiding it.
And I think for me that avoidance would come through
working harder, creating more, helping others further, just hustle, and
(26:21):
the more success I got, the easier it was to
continue down that path. So it really wasn't until the
pandemic and this constellation of loss came my way. My
father was my chosen father, so I didn't meet my
biological father until I was a teenager, and so he
and I had a very very close relationship. We still do,
(26:44):
and I actually think Marie has a close relationship with
him on the other side, because she's always reminding me
Ken said this, and Ken would tell us to do that,
and Ken would say that this thing that you're doing
is like naughty town, USA, cut it out right. So
she has had a lot of she's been impacted by
him as well. But it was really those moments when
(27:04):
everything starts to fall apart that I think we have
this opportunity to do the deep healing. And as a
result of that, you know, my book is called I'm
Not a Morning Person, Morning with You, and it's because
I didn't want to be a morning person. And yet
it's those places that we avoid that often hold our freedom,
as everybody here knows and then some And so I
(27:27):
went on this pilgrimage, in this journey that was really
about having the courage to explore my grief and then
kind of understanding that we can't amputate any of our
emotions and expect to be whole. And I believe going
back to that first question of you know, if joy
is the is the path to a good life, and
(27:48):
you know, wholeness is the point, then we certainly can't
amputate something like grief. And so when everything was going
on and has continued to go on for both of us,
I think because I had had a little bit of
that experience, certainly living it, but also then writing about it.
Because when you write about something, you have to put
words to it in a different way other than in
(28:11):
how you would tell your therapist. And so in some
ways I've felt very very privileged to be Marie's best
friend during this time, because I felt like I had
something to offer that the younger me would not have
had to offer.
Speaker 7 (28:27):
And Chris, just you can't amputate grief so powerful, so
important in terms of wholeness. But you were there and
you showed up with Marie, of course, and that was
really impactful. But what did Marie do to show up
for you and just give us some tangible things? And
(28:47):
so if you have a best friend going through a crisis,
going through difficult time, and when everybody to be listening
to this, Chris, how did Marie show up and give
you that love and connection that you needed, especially at
that time.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Well, Marie always keeps me connected to my source. And
I think that's one of the greatest things that she
does for me. She not only stands for me as
a person, but she stands for the parts of me
that I neglect, and there are plenty of them.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
What do you mean by that? What can you explain
that moment? That's really deep?
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Explain that little So when you're going through difficult time,
especially she now that when you know your parents are
getting older and you're in the stage where maybe you're
caring for young people and older people, there's a lot
of pressure on you to be that caregiver, and there's
a lot of very serious decisions that also have to
be made during that time. So you need to be
your sharpest, you need to be at full capacity. Well,
(29:37):
how can you be at full capacity when you're absolutely
exhausted and burnt out? And so of course you're not
going to take the time in those moments, or you
don't think that take the time to recuperate and to
really take care of yourself because you're in fight or
flight mode. You know, somebody's survival is dependent on you
and how you show up. And so your best friend,
(29:59):
if you're like you have a best friend like me
who'll kick your ass, will be the person who will
say like, hey, you're doing a great job, but you
need this, or you need to take care of yourself,
or you need a rest or you need play, you
need to come to the city, We need to have
a good time, We need to see a scary movie.
Do you need me to brainstorm? How can I help you?
What doors can I open for you? So it's all
(30:21):
of those things, right, And she is truly the person
that I would go to when I have the best
news on the planet, and She's the first person I'm
gonna go to when I have the worst news on
the planet, because she's gonna hold my hair when I'm
barfing because I'm totally overwhelmed by what's going on. And
then she's gonna give me a hug, and then she's
(30:41):
gonna say, how can I help you put this back
together again? And probably if she's gonna help you put
something back together again, it's gonna come back together in
a much better, stronger, and more loving way.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
We feel each other very intuitively, and and I can
feel in Chris that she's depleted. Like I'm showing up
with my full humor. I might drive to her. She
lives a couple hours away. We love some of the
same foods. I'm like, we're making this soup, We're watching
our favorite show. We're doing x Y or Z, or
I'm making you come into the city and I'm cooking
(31:18):
for you and I'm going to take you shopping, or
I'm gonna somehow fill your well in a way that's
going to keep you aligned with that joy and yourself
and the fact that everything's gonna be okay and you
don't have to hold it together on your own and
I got you. And if you need to just melt
and lose it and have it be messy, I will
(31:39):
sit here and get in the mess with you, and
you don't have to clean it up. I got that too.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Coming up, Marie four Leo and Chris Carr. She has
the relationship advice they wish they'd hurt sooner, and how
they show up for each other through life's toughest moments.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
Now back to my legacy, let us.
Speaker 6 (32:00):
Talk a little bit about romantic relationships, because obviously the
two of you all are such a powerful system for
each other, but you've also built strong, loving partnerships with
two amazing men. Marie, I think it's been more than
two decades with your partner, Josh. Yes, we're coming up
(32:24):
almost on thirty thirty years together, and like us, you
were wise enough to have a partner with a little
bit of seasoning on them. I think that there's a
little bit of age the same with us, which is
absolutely so wonderful and spicy. But what have you learned
(32:49):
about what it really really takes to grow together through
the ups and downs of life with your romantic partner?
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, oh my gosh. And by the way, this is
something Chris and I, Oh, we talk about this all
the time. But for me with Josh, so yeah, it's
like twenty two plus years and he is just such
a magical, incredible, creative, loving human being. And I can
say this because we say this often like the times,
(33:19):
like we have so much love and adoration and respect
for one another and there's such deep rapport and support
and like soul level recognition, and then at so many
times we want to we're just like I can't stand you,
you know, like it's just like we drive each other absolutely, Baddy.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Try working together too, Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Oh gosh, I say this to Chris too. I say
this to Chris. I'm like, if Josh and I work together.
So Josh is primarily an actor, writer, director, so he's
in the entertainment field, and I've got, you know, my
own Loneline empire. If him and I work together, I
would be in an orange jumpsuit because I would have
murdered this or man and be just a way for it.
(34:00):
Because that's the level that we can get to. I'm
joking obviously, but some of the things that we've learned,
I will say probably the most I've done every retreat
one could do read every book one could read, because
I'm that person who loves to learn and tries to
to just be a better person. And doctor Harville Hendrix
(34:21):
and Helen Kelly the Mago American Therapy.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Our butt continues to save our butts on the car
rides where I'm like, really, did you just say that
or whatever?
Speaker 6 (34:35):
Automatically going to the script.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
We try and then sometimes one of us slips out,
and of course like if it's Josh, I'm like, you're
not doing dialogue.
Speaker 7 (34:45):
As a dutiful husband, and craigsy husband, just give us
like the thirty seconds of what you're talking about with
the script and the therapy, we just take us a
step back and.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Very silent.
Speaker 7 (34:56):
Yes, yes, so so so, just just engage to listen.
Speaker 6 (35:01):
It is I think one of the most potent and
powerful ways of facilitating love and conversation, certainly in with
your romantic partners, you know, kind of dialoguing and really
hearing what your partner is saying and then not responding
as much. So for me, a lot of it is
(35:21):
so closely rooted in that the whole idea too, of
nonviolence and agape love. Because you separate, you separate the
actions or the words from the individual so that you
can come back together whole.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yes, and so anyone can google learn about it. They're
still teaching Harville and Helen and I recommend everyone you know,
get a hold of their books, watch their videos. There's
a new documentary that's out. It's fabulous stuff, whether it's
romantic or otherwise. But I think Josh and I really,
for me, I have to always come back to celebrating
our differences. Yeah, we're very, very different people because each
(35:56):
of us in their philosophical and kind of research clinical
frame work, you know, we all have wounds that were
formed very early on that sort of determine our lens
on the world, and that in our romantic relationships are
very often we're almost magnetically attracted to the exact opposite
of who's going to push your buttons so that you
(36:17):
can both heal together. And so for Josh and I,
we find that, for example, one of my fears is
being suffocated. So I love freedom. I love freedom, I
love freedom. And Joshi's fear, his kind of core childhood wound,
is being abandoned. So you could just see when one
person doesn't want to be suffocated and one person doesn't
want to be abandoned. You have like a saltmn pepper
(36:39):
shaker of the exact things that will drive it with
our bonkers. So I think for us celebrating the differences,
coming back to tools that actually work. I think also
the courage to know I am not the same person
that I was twenty two plus years ago, and neither
is he, and being able to courageously sit and talk
(37:04):
and discover anew who this person is now, who do
they want to become? And can we continue to grow
together without holding one another back and honoring our differences
as we both evolve forward, And that's like an ever
growing dance. We certainly don't always get it right, but
(37:27):
what I'm proud of is that we keep coming back
to the core of we love each other. We want
to see each other happy. We're committed to each other's
health and well being, and we're committed to it being
messy and too working it through when things aren't going well.
And that's you know that can be often in any
(37:47):
human relationship where you have friction.
Speaker 6 (37:50):
And Chris, I know that Brian has been with you
throughout from your diagnosis to your healing. What has he
taught you about love in partnership.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Well, you know, prior to Brian, I was always looking
for the guy who would leave me basically, so I
for me, my core woman is also abandonment. It's somebody
who met her father later in life. My father left
when I was conceived, and so I think I was
always looking for that daddy figure. And I remember as
(38:24):
a child thinking, well, if I am successful, maybe one
day he'll hear about me and he'll want to meet
me because I'll have value, right, And so I would
and I also imagine what he might have been like.
I saw him as like this big warrior and you know,
he's a lot of bravado. I don't know where my
little childhood mind came up with all this stuff, maybe
(38:46):
like superhero type of stuff. And so I was always
looking for that big warrior, bravado guy who had a
lot of charisma and a lot of daddy troubles too, right.
And so it really wasn't until my diagnosis that as
I was healing other aspects of my life and really
kind of saying, Okay, if you only have a certain
(39:08):
amount of time left. If that's the case, how do
you want to spend it? That I think I saw
somebody like Brian.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
We knew each other and we had been in previous
relationships and we had been in our friend circles, but
I hadn't seen him as somebody who could be a
partner with me. And so Brian is a filmmaker. He
is an Emmy Award winning editor film editor. And when
I was making my film Crazy Sexy Cancer, one of
our mutual friends was like, maybe Brian can cut a
(39:37):
little trailer for you, because they knew that I wanted
to submit it to a little industry night to see
if so I could get representation. So he cut that
trailer for me, and he started to teach me a
whole lot about filmmaking because I had always been in
front of the camera, but right before my diagnosis, I
had moved to wanting to be behind the camera because
I wanted to basically call the shots. And we were
(39:59):
little bit dating, but not really. It was really for me.
It was about the focus of the film. But as
this four years went on, you know, making the project together,
you know, he became the partner that I always I
think deserved and hadn't didn't see because I was so
trapped in my own wounds, and so we ended up
(40:22):
leaving our careers and working together. And I think that
in and of itself becomes this practice for relationship. As
Marie has said, we have had many conversations where we've
coached each other through hot relationship moments, and I'd say
the biggest thing that I have learned from him specifically is,
and Marie loves when I say this, so you will
(40:44):
know exactly what I'm saying, Marie, is the only time
you can change somebody is when they're in diapers.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
That's one of the.
Speaker 7 (40:51):
Best That's good, yes, is that at the beginning of
life and the end of life or just the beginning
of life.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Just obviously.
Speaker 6 (41:00):
Got it, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
And I've had to learn. I had to learn, like, Okay,
who is this person that I'm with that I can
like champion and love and love for who he is.
And and then if you want to change somebody, it's
because there's something in you that really is desiring to
be healed. And so for me it was like, Okay,
I got the focus on the wrong place. What are
(41:24):
the wounds, what's the what are the booboos, what are
the hurt nooks and crannies of my being that need
that care. And then I think, I mean, I'm still
on this path. But the more work we put into
that area, I guess our relationships benefit too, because we
sort of like let the love flourish as opposed to,
(41:45):
you know, try to control and suffocate it and make
it look a certain way that it doesn't want to
be in the first place.
Speaker 5 (41:51):
That's amazing and sometimes we say, particularly with the quote
you can only chance someone in diapers.
Speaker 6 (42:01):
Now that a preach and that comes directly from a
preacher's KIDK.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
So there you go, preach.
Speaker 5 (42:10):
I can make a whole sermon around it. I want
to ask both of you something about uh particularly for
our uh single listeners uh be because certainly dating can
be frustrating and challenging, and you know everybody has a checklist.
(42:35):
What maybe what's one thing that you were looking for
in your twenties, but now it's what you love most
about your partner.
Speaker 6 (42:47):
Before you answer this, did you ever think in your
life that Martin Luther King would be asking you about
your dating checklist?
Speaker 2 (42:53):
No?
Speaker 3 (43:01):
No, I cannot wait for dinner tonight and be like, honey.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
I tell you about my day so.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Just as a little context, Jersey girl Italian American grew
up on the Jersey Shore, which really big hair, lots
of tanning beds, gold gym, muscles, guidos. I can say
that because I'm Italian American, so like probably on my
list in my early twenties was like a really good
tan and gold chains. And then as it got to
(43:31):
like a more mature age, someone like Josh who is
so willing to do the work And when I say
the work, I mean the work of loving themselves and
another human being who is as flawed as I am,
who is as wild as I am, who has as
(43:52):
many different expressions as I am. So somebody who's willing
to not just you know, assume that they know it all,
but be willing to be curious and grow and learn.
So yeah, from from tans and kind of oiled up
big muscles and gold chains to the inner.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
You know, I don't even know if I knew what
I wanted. I was just sort of flailing all around,
you know.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
Back then.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
But what I know now is that I really am
so grateful to have a partner that I love talking
to that is endlessly curious, that you know, can dive
into any topic out there. Even when we go out
and we meet people and maybe he doesn't know anything
about the thing that they do, he's endlessly fascinated by
(44:40):
it and he wants to have those really wonderful conversations.
And I think, as my life has continued, it's just
so we it's so we're so lucky when we can
have deep conversations with the people.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
That we love.
Speaker 6 (44:56):
And I do want to take us back to where
we began, which is just the deep and unwavering friendship between.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
The two of you.
Speaker 6 (45:06):
All part of that too, showing up and being there
for each other. Sometimes you have to kind of stand
in some hard truth or one truth, and so I
would like to ask each of you what would be
the one truth that you have said to each other
that you all really needed to hear at that moment.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
I can be very hard headed, I will say that,
and I sometimes I'm like, I need to open everything
as figure outable. Oh wow, I wrote that. Boy do
I need a reminder? Here's what I want to say.
I will find the truth. But I just want to,
like with Chris, she's really the one person in the
world and I really think she is the only person
(45:50):
in the world who can say what may be to
perhaps my ego, you know, like a painful truth, and
to not have me want to like slap her one person,
because she will know how to kind of talk about intention,
to like kind of fill the space with love and
say hey, because I know she's standing for the essence
(46:14):
of me, the soul of me, the highest of me
that I can I know she's speaking never to hurt me,
but to help me rise up and to help me
ease my suffering. One of the things that I always
wrestle with, less so now than in my earlier years,
but is really like this ultra competitive comparison kind of
(46:36):
thing in my head that I'm not doing enough, that
oh I should be doing more. It's kind of this
addiction to productivity and achievement, and some of which can
be really beautiful and that can drive us, and then
for me, I've noticed it can go awry and it
can be a monster that can feel just terrible inside.
And anytime that I've found myself in a space like
(46:56):
that where I'm torturing me and I'm still you know,
no matter how hard I'm working or how much I'm producing,
it's still never enough. And let's say I'm comparing myself
to a colleague or somebody out there, She'll be the
one to be like, Okay, well this is what I
know about you, Marie, you are such a powerful manifestor
do you really want that?
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Do you want X, Y or Z?
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Because I know you could get it and we could
write down, does that do you really want that?
Speaker 5 (47:18):
Life?
Speaker 8 (47:19):
And then when she does that to me, I'm no, like,
like it brings it all together. So she has this
way of taming my inner demons and my monsters, and
so the truth is really getting me back aligned with
how powerful of a creator that I am. And the
truth I usually need to hear is like I'm doing
(47:39):
exactly what I really want to do. It's this thing
and I'm pointing to my head for all of our listeners.
It's my mind that can often take me off into
these very tortuous places.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
So with me, I as much I will stand for
people and stand for people in my family especially, and
you know myner in our circle, I can also disappear
and vanish and hide, and you become my own little
happy hermit cave dweller. And Marie always knows when it's
gone too far and she'll just you know, pull me
(48:15):
out of the cave, sometimes by my hair, but always lovingly.
But also there are those moments when I actually don't
know how to use my voice, and they tend to
be in similar situations, and literally she will coach me
and she'll give me the script to follow. And you
(48:36):
think that when you are grown up, you don't need
help with things like scripts and how to talk to people,
but I think oftentimes we actually do, especially when they're
conversations that are difficult and maybe scary. And when I
say scary, because they're tapping into something an old wound
or a place that still needs love and care in ourselves.
And so she's my script doctor.
Speaker 7 (49:00):
That's awesome, script doctor. What a great conversation. Thank you, guys.
This has just been absolutely remarkable.
Speaker 4 (49:06):
And just listening to the two of you, I gotta say,
I think this is one of my favorite episodes You've
ever had because of just the vulnerability, the rawness, the
holding each other accountable, the storytelling, and just clearly the
love between the two of you. It's just such a
beautiful model for friendship. Courage comes from pain, the places
(49:26):
we avoid hold our freedom. We cannot amputate any emotions
and expect to be whole. And of course, I think
my personal favorite only time we could change someone in diapers.
I think that one my wife is going to quote
to me a few times. The two of you have
brought such a beautiful friendship to share with us.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
Thank you, thank you, thank you for joining us. If
you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share, and follow us on
at my Legacy movement on social media and YouTube. New
episodes drop every Tuesday. At its core, this podcast honors
doctor King's vision of the beloved community and the power
(50:10):
of connection. A Legacy Plus Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia
creator and executive producer Suzanne Hayward co executive producer Lisa Lyle.
Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your
podcasts on
One of the things that I always wrestle with is
really like this ultra competitive comparison kind of thing in
my head that I'm not doing enough.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Marie Fourlio is a powerhouse entrepreneur, the creator of Marie TV,
a best selling author, and a world class coach. But
in this conversation, Marie isn't in mentoring mode. She's opening
up in a big way. Alongside her best friend Chris Carr.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
She is my first, my last, my only phone called
when everything is going right, or most frequently when everything
is going wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And they don't hold back from the heartbreak to the healing.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
She opened the door for me to be able to
ask for the kind of support I needed in a
really traumatic moment.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
The shit was hitting the fan in my life, and
I had more perspective when it really hit the fan
in her life.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
And after digging deep, they bring the laughter and real talk.
Only your ride or die would to share.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
The only person in the world who can say painful
truth and to not have nymanna like slapper.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Is the only time you can change somebody is when
they're in diverse Now that a.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Preach joined host Martin Luther King the Third Andrea Waters
king Mark Kilberger and Craig Kilberger for an honest, unapologetic
conversation about relationships, finding light in the darkest moments, and
the biggest lessons learned along the way.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I stood there and I was like WHOA.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Before today's episode begins, please be advised this conversation includes
discussions about suicide and mental health. Some of the content
may be distressing. If you or someone you know is struggling,
help is available. Call the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline
at nine to eight eight or text home to seven
four one seven four one to reach the crisis text line.
(02:03):
These services are free and available twenty four to seven.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Welcome to My Legacy. Today's guest is Marie Fourlio. Marie
built her business and platform on purpose, resilience, an unshakable belief,
and she's made a career of helping others unlock the same. Marie,
We're so honored to have you with us here today
and on My Legacy. We always ask our guests to
bring a plus one, someone who they admire, they turn
(02:29):
to in times of challenge and grief and hope, someone
who's their ride or die. Marie, can you introduce who
your plus one is?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Today I brought the one and only magical Unicorn, herself,
Miss Chris Carr. And for those of you who do
not know my best friend in the entire world, she
is a powerhouse herself. She is a multiple New York
Times Number one best selling author. She is someone who
has spent over two decades of her life not just
(02:57):
surviving but thriving with cant and has inspired millions to
do the same. She's got books, she's got podcasts, through
her coaching, through everything she shares with the world. The
New York Times has called her a new role model,
and Oprah has named her a force for good and
for good reason. And personally, Chris is literally she's my
(03:18):
soul sister. Like we talk about this all the time.
We do not understand how we are not legitimate family,
but we are meant family, and she is the person.
We were talking about this the other day, like we
have never let each other down, and we started celebrating
our friend anniversary. I think it's been over fifteen years.
(03:38):
And she is my first, my last, my only phone
call when everything is going right or most frequently when
everything is going wrong, because that happens to all of
us in life.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I had a spectacular introduction.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Chris, When did you know that Marie was going to
be your soul sister, your friends, your lifelong writer, die.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Companion from the first moment I spoke to her. So
we at each other because back in the day when
you're doing everything and you're building your life and you're
building your business, and you're wearing all the hats as
young puppy entrepreneurs, we were also our customer service. And
so I bought one of her products because so many
(04:18):
people had said to me, you should, you should know
about Marie. You should. You guys would really love each other,
and so I was like, Oh, who is this Marie?
And so I went and I bought her live in
the moment booty camp. And I was like, I don't
know what any of that is, but it sounds like
I need to know what it is and have a
little bit of that in my life. And we got
(04:38):
on the phone and we have not stopped talking ever since.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
That is so so special. Let me Marie ask a question.
You grew up in a small town in New Jersey
and have said your mom was a big factor in
shaping your grit. What do you carry forward from those
early years.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Well so much. But I think the quick story that
I will tell that has really shaped my life was
the fact that my mom, like so many of our parents,
didn't grow up with a lot of resources. She actually
had two alcoholic parents and grew up in the Nork,
New Jersey, and she learned, really by necessity, how to
stretch a dollar bill around a block like five or
(05:20):
six times. And she had made a promise to herself
when she was young that she would somehow find a
way to a better life. And so one of my
best memories as a kid was sitting around her kitchen
table in New Jersey, and it was Sundays and cutting
out coupons because my mom loved to teach me all
the ways that our family could save money. And so
I think most of the people here were all of
(05:41):
a certain age where you might remember something that were
called proofs of purchase, where if you purchased a bunch
of boxes of cereal for particular brand or right milk cartons,
and you collected all those little squares and you mailed
them in, you could get cool stuff like cooking utensils
or a recipe book or something. And my mom's favorite
thing that she loved more than anything was this tiny
(06:03):
little AMFM radio that she got for free from Tropicana
Orange Juice. So it looked like an orange I had
red white straw sticking out of the top that was
the antenna. And as a kid, I knew I could
always find my mom somewhere from listening to the tiny
little sound of this radio. So one day coming home
from school, walking home, and I hear like Diana Ross blasting,
(06:26):
you know, really small out of this radio. And as
I approach the house, it's coming from a weird orientation,
and I look up and I see my tiny little
mom perched precariously on the roof of our two story house,
no ladder, no nothing. I'm terrified. I'm like, Mom, what
are you doing up there? Are you okay? And she
yells down and she's like, ree, don't worry about it.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
The roofer.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
You know, there's a leak. The roofer said it was
going to be at least five hundred bucks to fix it.
I said, screw that, I'm doing it myself. So that
gives you a little flavor of MoMA Poorlia sounds a
me So for context, this was the nineteen eighties, right,
This is all pre Internet, this is pre Google, this
is pre YouTube. And my mom only had a high
school education. So one day it was in the fall,
(07:12):
I'm coming home from school and it was dark out.
It's Jersey, right, It's like four o'clock and it's spooky already.
And as I'm approaching the house, everything is dark and
it's quiet. Now I'm Italian American and if your house
is dark and quiet, this is not good news. So
I'm terrified. I'm like, what's going on? Where's my mom?
(07:33):
Got that pit in my stomach, like something is seriously wrong.
So I walk in the house silence, and then I
start hearing these little clicks and clacks from the kitchen.
I tiptoe over and I see my mom in the kitchen.
She's hunched over the table and it looks like an
operating room. There's a spotlight on screwdrivers, electrical tape, and
(07:54):
then in about twenty pieces was a completely dismantled Tropicana
range radio. And I stood back and I was like, Mom,
are you okay?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
That's your favorite thing? Is it broken? And she looks
up at me and she says, rae. She goes, I'm fine,
She's like the antenna was a little busted, the dial
wasn't working, so I'm fixing it. And I stood there
and I watched her work her magic, and then I
finally thought to ask the question I should have always asked,
which was this, Hey, mom, how do you know how
to do so many different things that you've never done before?
(08:27):
But nobody's shown you how to do it? And she
puts down her screwdriver and she cocks her head to
the side and she said, ray, what are you talking about.
Nothing in life is that complicated. If you roll up
your sleeves, you get in there and you do it,
everything is figure outable. And I kid you, guys not.
I stood there and I was like, whoa everything is
(08:48):
everything is figure out? Well, I was like, everything else, big,
Oh my goodness, everything is figure outible. And so it
was just this belief in possibility and grittiness and going
for it even though you have no clue what the
heck you're doing. That really became the driving force in
my life and still is today.
Speaker 6 (09:07):
And it was a great book. Yes, I grew up
with a single parent. She was a nurse and first
black nurse in her hometown, and very much so like
one day I would come home, even if she's worked
a double shift, and she had the outlets pulled out
literally of the wall, and she changed she was figuring
(09:28):
out how to change the electrical outlets in our house,
or you know. So it just reminded me of such
a beautiful book and so important for young girls. That
again that I bought not only a copy for myself
but for our daughter, and we read and studied and
talked about it together.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
That looks me so much. I can hardly even tell
you and thank you for sharing that. And I think
that so many of us, Chris, I know you come
from such scrappy beginnings as well, and we learned these
invaluable lessons about how to not let the fact that
you may not know or understand something stop you from
moving forward.
Speaker 7 (10:06):
Maria, I wanted to ask you a question. You know,
it was many years ago when you were twenty three
years old you had the courage to launch Marie TV
when many women at that time were not creating that
type of content. And that was courageous, that was adacious,
that was wonderful and obviously been now very successful. I'm
sure there's been lots of upstowns in that process. But
how did you find your confidence and trust in yourself
(10:29):
to go ahead and to create that vision, to create
that platform, to create that voice.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I was born in seventy five, so it was kind
of grown up in the eighties there. And my idea
of a successful, powerful business woman had like huge shoulder
pads and she was in this corner glass office. It
was kind of imagery that I think I just saw
in the media. And I had this notion that one
had to be perfectly educated and speak at a particular
(10:56):
level and use particular language in order to be successful.
And I remember being on Wall Street, on the floor
of the New York Stock Exchange and trying to kind
of step into my idealized image of what a successful
young woman was. And I tried to do that in
the magazine world, both on the advertising side and the
editorial side, and kind of all these different beautiful opportunities
(11:18):
that were career opportunities. But I kept feeling completely disconnected
because I was trying to be something that I wasn't.
And so after feeling like a failure and leaving jobs,
even though I had a very strong work ethic and
I was never afraid of hard work, I couldn't deny
from a soul level that I wasn't where my soul wanted.
Speaker 6 (11:42):
Me to be.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
And the moment that I relaxed and said, you know what,
I don't speak perfectly, I don't have I graduated from college.
I was the first in my family to go to college.
But I don't have higher degrees. I am way far
from perfect. I'm quirky, I'm weird, I have a strange
sense of humor. I like all of these different things.
And I started just expressing the true essence of who
(12:03):
I am. That's actually when things started to come together.
So releasing this notion of perfection, releasing this notion of
having to be someone that I genuinely wasn't, that was
the only place it came from. That and just a
lot of pain of failure of trying to be something
I wasn't and it did not work out.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Marie, you spoke about where from pain comes courage, and
in the same way, Chris, we all know your story.
The world knows your story. How you know in your
early thirties you received what you know talk about pain
and courage. What would have been a devastating for most
people diagnosis in a rare and curable stage four cancer,
and instead of retreating from it, you built a movement
(12:44):
around health and wellness. Take us back to that moment,
and can you help us understand where you found that
courage from when you decided to share your story and
to build your movement.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I think my courage came out of fear, but also
out of anger, if I'm to be totally honest, because
you know, when you're in your early thirties and or
work for a lot of people young adults with cancer,
when you're just starting out, you're trying to get your
life together. You're trying to figure out who you're going
to be and how you're going to make a living,
and you know, maybe you've got dreams of starting a
(13:18):
family or whatever that is. And then something like an
incurable cancer diagnosis comes your way. It's so destabilizing, and
so the initial thing was I'm terrified, am I going
to live? I'm going to die? So I have this
rare cancer that can be slow growing, but it can
also be very aggressive, and so for me, it was
(13:39):
a first and foremost find the best doctor, figure out
what this thing is, and then come up with a
game plan. And the first doctor suggested a triple organ transplant,
and I thought that that was crazy. I had never
heard of anybody surviving something like that, and so I
said thank you, but no thank you again. Much like Marie,
(14:00):
I didn't have a higher degree. I actually wasn't even
interested in health and wellness. I figured, like fiber was
for later. Right now, I got to get my shit
together make a living, and so this was not something
that I thought was important or something that I want
to spend a lot of time educating myself on. But
then when you're up against the ropes, you find out
(14:20):
real quickly what you do need to put your focus on,
and for me, it was my health. And so I
went about interviewing all of these different doctors, and I
think it was my first experience of saying, Okay, honestly,
these people work for me, and I'm looking for my
second in command. It was my first first opportunity of
being a CEO, and it was just it was becoming
(14:43):
the CEO of my health, which is what I often
talk about. As I kept meeting more people and interviewing them,
I decided, Okay, once I find my second in command,
then I really have to look outside of the box,
and when I finally did, he was like, look, this
can be grow slow growing, it can be aggressive, all
the things I just share with you. Sometimes it can change.
(15:04):
And so we're just going to watch and wait, and
we're going to track you, and we're going to wait
for cancer to make the first move, and we're going
to get a baseline and until then, you're going to
watch and live. And I said, well, I don't really
know what that means, and he said, go figure it out.
And so it was through that fear and that frustration
(15:25):
that I decided to carve another path. And for me,
I think the anger was really about how come there
isn't a lot of information out there for people like me,
a young adult living with stage four cancer who doesn't
have the kind of opportunities to like have chemo and
radiation and surgery, And how come there isn't there are
(15:48):
any books or media or resources for people like us
who are living with these chronic diseases. And in a
lot of ways, you know, especially back then and even
before then, the Big Sea was still something that you
whispered about, you know, And so I think it was
part of the reason why I came out with the
film crazy sexy cancer. Everybody said, do not call it that,
(16:12):
and I was like, oh, I'm calling it that, And honestly,
that's where it began. It came from my own pain,
as Marie would say, and then it just turned into
something else, especially when you take the thing that is
so difficult for you and then you can Marie and
I share this in common a lot, which is we
use our creativity as tools for our healing. And I
(16:35):
think that that's something that we both champion in each other.
Is her creative power is something that I'm in awe of.
It's something I always want her to continue to like
put a foot on the gas and move towards because
it's this unlimited supply of possibility and potential that I
get really inspired by. And I think I have moments
(16:56):
where I've offered the same experience for her, but ultimately
to you know, just get back to your question. I think, Marie, now,
did it came from pain?
Speaker 6 (17:05):
And I just want to take a moment because, particularly
if there are young women that are listening. But when
what both of you all have just talked about, you know,
I think sometimes we want to gloss over fear, anger, pain,
but leaning into.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Those things you know.
Speaker 6 (17:27):
You know, we I say to our daughter all the
time that you know, courage is not not being afraid,
it's doing it even when you are afraid. But if
they can learn young women at such a young age
that in those moments, something beautiful can be birthed.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Scrolling won't change your life, but subscribing just might tap
that button and stay connected to conversations that kept.
Speaker 6 (17:54):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Oh my gosh, I'm so glad you brought Chris. I
gotta say it, and why immediately. The friendship is so amazing, Marie.
If I can ask a question, I always deeply moved
here and Chris speak a moment ago. I'm so curious
what has she taught you? Not through her words, though,
but how she lives her life.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I feel like I learned from my best friend every day,
and in terms of just witnessing how she shows up
in the world for everyone else. I have never witnessed
someone so committed to her family and her friends, like
when you are on Chris's inner circle. The things that
(18:34):
she's taught me is just you stop at nothing to
show up and dive full in when your people need you,
and Honestly, I've gone through the past probably a little
over two years for me, has been one of the
hardest of my life. Both of my parents their health declining.
And I know this is something in you know, a
journey that many of us go through in various ways,
(18:57):
and for me it's been the past few years. And
I think watching Chris over the course of our friendship,
how she showed up has really given me a lot
of strength for how I wanted to show up for
my own family in their time of need.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
And in fact, even on your Instagram, there is something
that I would like to share. You said that my
mom almost died last year twice my dad's health nos
died at the same time. It was the most hellish,
painful six months of my life. Can you talk a
(19:32):
little bit more about those six months and what you
learned in those moments of crisis.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yes, so those six months extended to over two years
and essentially, you know, and I'll say this, and I
think it's important. What I'm about to say is it
can be heard in a way that's like, wow, this
is shocking. But I want to say this because I
think many people experience this in their lives and have
(20:00):
trouble finding people to relate to. But my mom after
being devastated by COVID in twenty twenty three. She's a
tiny woman. I've told the story about her already. She's
extremely resilient, and within about two weeks of having COVID
and no one knew it, she lost almost thirty pounds,
so she looked like a skeleton. She was in the
emergency room and the doctors kept telling her there was
(20:22):
nothing wrong with her, and if you would have seen her,
you would have said, she's probably close to death, like
what are you smoking. So, as a person who wanted
to dive in and say, you know, we need to
handle this, it was like, at the same time that
my mom was crumbling, my dad we realized his memory
(20:42):
wasn't just some memory issues but going into dementia slash Alzheimer's.
So everything was crashing at once fast forward because it
was impossible for us to find anything that would help
my mom. She actually tried to take her own life
three times over the course of the past two years.
And so as you can imagine, very traumatic, very difficult,
(21:06):
and navigating quote unquote healthcare system that's not really designed
to get people well has been difficult, to say the least,
I think it has. The whole experience has shown me
really how many challenges we have in this country. You know,
as someone who prides myself on being a boss in
(21:28):
many ways, being hopefully a somewhat good communicator, and have
an ability to kind of navigate complex systems, it has
made my heartbreak to think about so many others who
have similar struggles, who don't have the experience or the
ability to do some of the things that I've been
able to do. The system is crushing. So I'll pause
(21:49):
there in a moment, but I just wanted to say
that for anyone who might be listening right now who
is going through an experience with chronic illness aging parents,
my heart goes out to you. It will not last forever.
I think one of the things I've learned is how
important it is to give yourself breaks and take care
of yourself. And I think we need to keep having
(22:09):
these conversations because our population is aging, and we don't
really have the infrastructure or the support to help people
really exist in their last stages of life with dignity,
with safety, with care, and then all of the caregivers,
many of which we're in our thirties, forties, fifties and
sixties who are struggling with growing a family and their
(22:33):
children and then also having to take care of your
elders as well. So I think there's a lot of
opportunity for growth and transformation there.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
And how did Chris show up for you in those
in those six months?
Speaker 1 (22:45):
So can I tell you guys this? So we have
we have a code in text which is essentially an emoji,
and it's an ambulance emoji. That emoji is not used
all the time, but when one of us sends the
other the ambulance emoji, it is essentially I need you
right now. And we never quote unquote cry wolf. But
(23:06):
the way that Chris showed up for me is like
when I sent those emojis, like hey, this is happening
right now, she dropped everything and just strategized with me.
And she would often ask me, do you need me
to listen? Do we need to brainstorm? Do you need
me to get in my car? So it was kind
of that level of knowing that I was probably in
(23:28):
a really fragile state and that she opened the door
for me to be able to ask for the kind
of support I needed in a really traumatic moment.
Speaker 7 (23:40):
It's really on honor that and just myself and my
brother Craig. We lost our father about a handful of
weeks ago, but nine ten weeks ago. Sorry, thank you,
We appreciate that. So we do have a good understanding
of the dysfunction of the medical system that really separates
the mind and the body. And just want to say
how challenging that it is. And I want to say
(24:01):
thank you for sharing that, and especially for sharing with
such detail and such rawness about the challenges your mom's
gone through, especially the last little while, because aging is difficult,
but aging parents without a medical system that really understands
the wholeness of that process is equally difficult. Chris, I
want to direct the same type of question for you
(24:22):
to give listeners inspiration, advice and courage. Let's take us
back to the pandemic, when your father was sick and
was dying, your business was struggling because of the pandemic,
and you just celebrated quote unquote your twentieth anniversary of
having incurable cancer. Now, for anybody else, any one of
those would have been a crisis, but this is must
(24:43):
have felt like an emotional tsunami. What pulled you through,
what got you through through that moment? What advice do
you have for people that are going through very challenging times.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
I look back at that time, and I know all
the things that Marie has gone through in these for years,
and I feel like I was just a little ahead,
meaning like the shit was hitting the fan in my life,
and I had more perspective when it really hit the
fan in her life. And so a lot of the
(25:14):
mistakes that I made in my own life I could
try to avoid in hers. So even saying things like
do you want me to listen, as opposed to just
barreling in with advice you have to do this, you
have to do that, you have to do this, you know,
was something that I learned through my own experience of grief.
I did not want to touch grief. So as somebody
who has lived with stage four cancer for over two decades,
(25:36):
you would think that grief would be an emotion that
I am very familiar with, because there's a lot of
grief that comes from the loss of an identity, the
loss of physical capabilities, the loss of you know, your health.
And yet I had a blind spot because it felt
so hot and so big to me that if I
thought that if I even touched it, and what would
(25:58):
happen is my whole life foot fall apart. Because there
was so much systemic and generational trauma in those places
and in those hot spots, and so I kept avoiding it.
And I think for me that avoidance would come through
working harder, creating more, helping others further, just hustle, and
(26:21):
the more success I got, the easier it was to
continue down that path. So it really wasn't until the
pandemic and this constellation of loss came my way. My
father was my chosen father, so I didn't meet my
biological father until I was a teenager, and so he
and I had a very very close relationship. We still do,
(26:44):
and I actually think Marie has a close relationship with
him on the other side, because she's always reminding me
Ken said this, and Ken would tell us to do that,
and Ken would say that this thing that you're doing
is like naughty town, USA, cut it out right. So
she has had a lot of she's been impacted by
him as well. But it was really those moments when
(27:04):
everything starts to fall apart that I think we have
this opportunity to do the deep healing. And as a
result of that, you know, my book is called I'm
Not a Morning Person, Morning with You, and it's because
I didn't want to be a morning person. And yet
it's those places that we avoid that often hold our freedom,
as everybody here knows and then some And so I
(27:27):
went on this pilgrimage, in this journey that was really
about having the courage to explore my grief and then
kind of understanding that we can't amputate any of our
emotions and expect to be whole. And I believe going
back to that first question of you know, if joy
is the is the path to a good life, and
(27:48):
you know, wholeness is the point, then we certainly can't
amputate something like grief. And so when everything was going
on and has continued to go on for both of us,
I think because I had had a little bit of
that experience, certainly living it, but also then writing about it.
Because when you write about something, you have to put
words to it in a different way other than in
(28:11):
how you would tell your therapist. And so in some
ways I've felt very very privileged to be Marie's best
friend during this time, because I felt like I had
something to offer that the younger me would not have
had to offer.
Speaker 7 (28:27):
And Chris, just you can't amputate grief so powerful, so
important in terms of wholeness. But you were there and
you showed up with Marie, of course, and that was
really impactful. But what did Marie do to show up
for you and just give us some tangible things? And
(28:47):
so if you have a best friend going through a crisis,
going through difficult time, and when everybody to be listening
to this, Chris, how did Marie show up and give
you that love and connection that you needed, especially at
that time.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Well, Marie always keeps me connected to my source. And
I think that's one of the greatest things that she
does for me. She not only stands for me as
a person, but she stands for the parts of me
that I neglect, and there are plenty of them.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
What do you mean by that? What can you explain
that moment? That's really deep?
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Explain that little So when you're going through difficult time,
especially she now that when you know your parents are
getting older and you're in the stage where maybe you're
caring for young people and older people, there's a lot
of pressure on you to be that caregiver, and there's
a lot of very serious decisions that also have to
be made during that time. So you need to be
your sharpest, you need to be at full capacity. Well,
(29:37):
how can you be at full capacity when you're absolutely
exhausted and burnt out? And so of course you're not
going to take the time in those moments, or you
don't think that take the time to recuperate and to
really take care of yourself because you're in fight or
flight mode. You know, somebody's survival is dependent on you
and how you show up. And so your best friend,
(29:59):
if you're like you have a best friend like me
who'll kick your ass, will be the person who will
say like, hey, you're doing a great job, but you
need this, or you need to take care of yourself,
or you need a rest or you need play, you
need to come to the city, We need to have
a good time, We need to see a scary movie.
Do you need me to brainstorm? How can I help you?
What doors can I open for you? So it's all
(30:21):
of those things, right, And she is truly the person
that I would go to when I have the best
news on the planet, and She's the first person I'm
gonna go to when I have the worst news on
the planet, because she's gonna hold my hair when I'm
barfing because I'm totally overwhelmed by what's going on. And
then she's gonna give me a hug, and then she's
(30:41):
gonna say, how can I help you put this back
together again? And probably if she's gonna help you put
something back together again, it's gonna come back together in
a much better, stronger, and more loving way.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
We feel each other very intuitively, and and I can
feel in Chris that she's depleted. Like I'm showing up
with my full humor. I might drive to her. She
lives a couple hours away. We love some of the
same foods. I'm like, we're making this soup, We're watching
our favorite show. We're doing x Y or Z, or
I'm making you come into the city and I'm cooking
(31:18):
for you and I'm going to take you shopping, or
I'm gonna somehow fill your well in a way that's
going to keep you aligned with that joy and yourself
and the fact that everything's gonna be okay and you
don't have to hold it together on your own and
I got you. And if you need to just melt
and lose it and have it be messy, I will
(31:39):
sit here and get in the mess with you, and
you don't have to clean it up. I got that too.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Coming up, Marie four Leo and Chris Carr. She has
the relationship advice they wish they'd hurt sooner, and how
they show up for each other through life's toughest moments.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
Now back to my legacy, let us.
Speaker 6 (32:00):
Talk a little bit about romantic relationships, because obviously the
two of you all are such a powerful system for
each other, but you've also built strong, loving partnerships with
two amazing men. Marie, I think it's been more than
two decades with your partner, Josh. Yes, we're coming up
(32:24):
almost on thirty thirty years together, and like us, you
were wise enough to have a partner with a little
bit of seasoning on them. I think that there's a
little bit of age the same with us, which is
absolutely so wonderful and spicy. But what have you learned
(32:49):
about what it really really takes to grow together through
the ups and downs of life with your romantic partner?
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, oh my gosh. And by the way, this is
something Chris and I, Oh, we talk about this all
the time. But for me with Josh, so yeah, it's
like twenty two plus years and he is just such
a magical, incredible, creative, loving human being. And I can
say this because we say this often like the times,
(33:19):
like we have so much love and adoration and respect
for one another and there's such deep rapport and support
and like soul level recognition, and then at so many
times we want to we're just like I can't stand you,
you know, like it's just like we drive each other absolutely, Baddy.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Try working together too, Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Oh gosh, I say this to Chris too. I say
this to Chris. I'm like, if Josh and I work together.
So Josh is primarily an actor, writer, director, so he's
in the entertainment field, and I've got, you know, my
own Loneline empire. If him and I work together, I
would be in an orange jumpsuit because I would have
murdered this or man and be just a way for it.
(34:00):
Because that's the level that we can get to. I'm
joking obviously, but some of the things that we've learned,
I will say probably the most I've done every retreat
one could do read every book one could read, because
I'm that person who loves to learn and tries to
to just be a better person. And doctor Harville Hendrix
(34:21):
and Helen Kelly the Mago American Therapy.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Our butt continues to save our butts on the car
rides where I'm like, really, did you just say that
or whatever?
Speaker 6 (34:35):
Automatically going to the script.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
We try and then sometimes one of us slips out,
and of course like if it's Josh, I'm like, you're
not doing dialogue.
Speaker 7 (34:45):
As a dutiful husband, and craigsy husband, just give us
like the thirty seconds of what you're talking about with
the script and the therapy, we just take us a
step back and.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Very silent.
Speaker 7 (34:56):
Yes, yes, so so so, just just engage to listen.
Speaker 6 (35:01):
It is I think one of the most potent and
powerful ways of facilitating love and conversation, certainly in with
your romantic partners, you know, kind of dialoguing and really
hearing what your partner is saying and then not responding
as much. So for me, a lot of it is
(35:21):
so closely rooted in that the whole idea too, of
nonviolence and agape love. Because you separate, you separate the
actions or the words from the individual so that you
can come back together whole.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yes, and so anyone can google learn about it. They're
still teaching Harville and Helen and I recommend everyone you know,
get a hold of their books, watch their videos. There's
a new documentary that's out. It's fabulous stuff, whether it's
romantic or otherwise. But I think Josh and I really,
for me, I have to always come back to celebrating
our differences. Yeah, we're very, very different people because each
(35:56):
of us in their philosophical and kind of research clinical
frame work, you know, we all have wounds that were
formed very early on that sort of determine our lens
on the world, and that in our romantic relationships are
very often we're almost magnetically attracted to the exact opposite
of who's going to push your buttons so that you
(36:17):
can both heal together. And so for Josh and I,
we find that, for example, one of my fears is
being suffocated. So I love freedom. I love freedom, I
love freedom. And Joshi's fear, his kind of core childhood wound,
is being abandoned. So you could just see when one
person doesn't want to be suffocated and one person doesn't
want to be abandoned. You have like a saltmn pepper
(36:39):
shaker of the exact things that will drive it with
our bonkers. So I think for us celebrating the differences,
coming back to tools that actually work. I think also
the courage to know I am not the same person
that I was twenty two plus years ago, and neither
is he, and being able to courageously sit and talk
(37:04):
and discover anew who this person is now, who do
they want to become? And can we continue to grow
together without holding one another back and honoring our differences
as we both evolve forward, And that's like an ever
growing dance. We certainly don't always get it right, but
(37:27):
what I'm proud of is that we keep coming back
to the core of we love each other. We want
to see each other happy. We're committed to each other's
health and well being, and we're committed to it being
messy and too working it through when things aren't going well.
And that's you know that can be often in any
(37:47):
human relationship where you have friction.
Speaker 6 (37:50):
And Chris, I know that Brian has been with you
throughout from your diagnosis to your healing. What has he
taught you about love in partnership.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Well, you know, prior to Brian, I was always looking
for the guy who would leave me basically, so I
for me, my core woman is also abandonment. It's somebody
who met her father later in life. My father left
when I was conceived, and so I think I was
always looking for that daddy figure. And I remember as
(38:24):
a child thinking, well, if I am successful, maybe one
day he'll hear about me and he'll want to meet
me because I'll have value, right, And so I would
and I also imagine what he might have been like.
I saw him as like this big warrior and you know,
he's a lot of bravado. I don't know where my
little childhood mind came up with all this stuff, maybe
(38:46):
like superhero type of stuff. And so I was always
looking for that big warrior, bravado guy who had a
lot of charisma and a lot of daddy troubles too, right.
And so it really wasn't until my diagnosis that as
I was healing other aspects of my life and really
kind of saying, Okay, if you only have a certain
(39:08):
amount of time left. If that's the case, how do
you want to spend it? That I think I saw
somebody like Brian.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
We knew each other and we had been in previous
relationships and we had been in our friend circles, but
I hadn't seen him as somebody who could be a
partner with me. And so Brian is a filmmaker. He
is an Emmy Award winning editor film editor. And when
I was making my film Crazy Sexy Cancer, one of
our mutual friends was like, maybe Brian can cut a
(39:37):
little trailer for you, because they knew that I wanted
to submit it to a little industry night to see
if so I could get representation. So he cut that
trailer for me, and he started to teach me a
whole lot about filmmaking because I had always been in
front of the camera, but right before my diagnosis, I
had moved to wanting to be behind the camera because
I wanted to basically call the shots. And we were
(39:59):
little bit dating, but not really. It was really for me.
It was about the focus of the film. But as
this four years went on, you know, making the project together,
you know, he became the partner that I always I
think deserved and hadn't didn't see because I was so
trapped in my own wounds, and so we ended up
(40:22):
leaving our careers and working together. And I think that
in and of itself becomes this practice for relationship. As
Marie has said, we have had many conversations where we've
coached each other through hot relationship moments, and I'd say
the biggest thing that I have learned from him specifically is,
and Marie loves when I say this, so you will
(40:44):
know exactly what I'm saying, Marie, is the only time
you can change somebody is when they're in diapers.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
That's one of the.
Speaker 7 (40:51):
Best That's good, yes, is that at the beginning of
life and the end of life or just the beginning
of life.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Just obviously.
Speaker 6 (41:00):
Got it, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
And I've had to learn. I had to learn, like, Okay,
who is this person that I'm with that I can
like champion and love and love for who he is.
And and then if you want to change somebody, it's
because there's something in you that really is desiring to
be healed. And so for me it was like, Okay,
I got the focus on the wrong place. What are
(41:24):
the wounds, what's the what are the booboos, what are
the hurt nooks and crannies of my being that need
that care. And then I think, I mean, I'm still
on this path. But the more work we put into
that area, I guess our relationships benefit too, because we
sort of like let the love flourish as opposed to,
(41:45):
you know, try to control and suffocate it and make
it look a certain way that it doesn't want to
be in the first place.
Speaker 5 (41:51):
That's amazing and sometimes we say, particularly with the quote
you can only chance someone in diapers.
Speaker 6 (42:01):
Now that a preach and that comes directly from a
preacher's KIDK.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
So there you go, preach.
Speaker 5 (42:10):
I can make a whole sermon around it. I want
to ask both of you something about uh particularly for
our uh single listeners uh be because certainly dating can
be frustrating and challenging, and you know everybody has a checklist.
(42:35):
What maybe what's one thing that you were looking for
in your twenties, but now it's what you love most
about your partner.
Speaker 6 (42:47):
Before you answer this, did you ever think in your
life that Martin Luther King would be asking you about
your dating checklist?
Speaker 2 (42:53):
No?
Speaker 3 (43:01):
No, I cannot wait for dinner tonight and be like, honey.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
I tell you about my day so.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Just as a little context, Jersey girl Italian American grew
up on the Jersey Shore, which really big hair, lots
of tanning beds, gold gym, muscles, guidos. I can say
that because I'm Italian American, so like probably on my
list in my early twenties was like a really good
tan and gold chains. And then as it got to
(43:31):
like a more mature age, someone like Josh who is
so willing to do the work And when I say
the work, I mean the work of loving themselves and
another human being who is as flawed as I am,
who is as wild as I am, who has as
(43:52):
many different expressions as I am. So somebody who's willing
to not just you know, assume that they know it all,
but be willing to be curious and grow and learn.
So yeah, from from tans and kind of oiled up
big muscles and gold chains to the inner.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
You know, I don't even know if I knew what
I wanted. I was just sort of flailing all around,
you know.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
Back then.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
But what I know now is that I really am
so grateful to have a partner that I love talking
to that is endlessly curious, that you know, can dive
into any topic out there. Even when we go out
and we meet people and maybe he doesn't know anything
about the thing that they do, he's endlessly fascinated by
(44:40):
it and he wants to have those really wonderful conversations.
And I think, as my life has continued, it's just
so we it's so we're so lucky when we can
have deep conversations with the people.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
That we love.
Speaker 6 (44:56):
And I do want to take us back to where
we began, which is just the deep and unwavering friendship between.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
The two of you.
Speaker 6 (45:06):
All part of that too, showing up and being there
for each other. Sometimes you have to kind of stand
in some hard truth or one truth, and so I
would like to ask each of you what would be
the one truth that you have said to each other
that you all really needed to hear at that moment.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
I can be very hard headed, I will say that,
and I sometimes I'm like, I need to open everything
as figure outable. Oh wow, I wrote that. Boy do
I need a reminder? Here's what I want to say.
I will find the truth. But I just want to,
like with Chris, she's really the one person in the
world and I really think she is the only person
(45:50):
in the world who can say what may be to
perhaps my ego, you know, like a painful truth, and
to not have me want to like slap her one person,
because she will know how to kind of talk about intention,
to like kind of fill the space with love and
say hey, because I know she's standing for the essence
(46:14):
of me, the soul of me, the highest of me
that I can I know she's speaking never to hurt me,
but to help me rise up and to help me
ease my suffering. One of the things that I always
wrestle with, less so now than in my earlier years,
but is really like this ultra competitive comparison kind of
(46:36):
thing in my head that I'm not doing enough, that
oh I should be doing more. It's kind of this
addiction to productivity and achievement, and some of which can
be really beautiful and that can drive us, and then
for me, I've noticed it can go awry and it
can be a monster that can feel just terrible inside.
And anytime that I've found myself in a space like
(46:56):
that where I'm torturing me and I'm still you know,
no matter how hard I'm working or how much I'm producing,
it's still never enough. And let's say I'm comparing myself
to a colleague or somebody out there, She'll be the
one to be like, Okay, well this is what I
know about you, Marie, you are such a powerful manifestor
do you really want that?
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Do you want X, Y or Z?
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Because I know you could get it and we could
write down, does that do you really want that?
Speaker 5 (47:18):
Life?
Speaker 8 (47:19):
And then when she does that to me, I'm no, like,
like it brings it all together. So she has this
way of taming my inner demons and my monsters, and
so the truth is really getting me back aligned with
how powerful of a creator that I am. And the
truth I usually need to hear is like I'm doing
(47:39):
exactly what I really want to do. It's this thing
and I'm pointing to my head for all of our listeners.
It's my mind that can often take me off into
these very tortuous places.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
So with me, I as much I will stand for
people and stand for people in my family especially, and
you know myner in our circle, I can also disappear
and vanish and hide, and you become my own little
happy hermit cave dweller. And Marie always knows when it's
gone too far and she'll just you know, pull me
(48:15):
out of the cave, sometimes by my hair, but always lovingly.
But also there are those moments when I actually don't
know how to use my voice, and they tend to
be in similar situations, and literally she will coach me
and she'll give me the script to follow. And you
(48:36):
think that when you are grown up, you don't need
help with things like scripts and how to talk to people,
but I think oftentimes we actually do, especially when they're
conversations that are difficult and maybe scary. And when I
say scary, because they're tapping into something an old wound
or a place that still needs love and care in ourselves.
And so she's my script doctor.
Speaker 7 (49:00):
That's awesome, script doctor. What a great conversation. Thank you, guys.
This has just been absolutely remarkable.
Speaker 4 (49:06):
And just listening to the two of you, I gotta say,
I think this is one of my favorite episodes You've
ever had because of just the vulnerability, the rawness, the
holding each other accountable, the storytelling, and just clearly the
love between the two of you. It's just such a
beautiful model for friendship. Courage comes from pain, the places
(49:26):
we avoid hold our freedom. We cannot amputate any emotions
and expect to be whole. And of course, I think
my personal favorite only time we could change someone in diapers.
I think that one my wife is going to quote
to me a few times. The two of you have
brought such a beautiful friendship to share with us.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
Thank you, thank you, thank you for joining us. If
you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share, and follow us on
at my Legacy movement on social media and YouTube. New
episodes drop every Tuesday. At its core, this podcast honors
doctor King's vision of the beloved community and the power
(50:10):
of connection. A Legacy Plus Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia
creator and executive producer Suzanne Hayward co executive producer Lisa Lyle.
Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your
podcasts on
Hosts And Creators
Craig Kielburger
Marc Kielburger
Martin Luther King III
Arndrea Waters King
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