What Epstein’s Really Exposing

This week hosts Tiffany Cross, Angela Rye, and Andrew Gillum cut through the NOISE. 

 

EVERYONE is talking about Jeffrey Epstein’s “client list,” an alleged list of rich and powerful people who molested children trafficked to them by the billionaire, Epstein. Trump’s attorney general, Pam Bondi, seems to have gone back on the Trump campaign’s promise to release the client list. Now, MAGA world is torn. Some are choosing to trust their dear orange leader while others are bucking Trump’s orders to fall in line, and continuing to pursue the release of the list. This is one of the most important political issues to MANY MAGA voters. 

 

And that’s the whole point: is this media cycle about Epstein a big distraction? What might it be distracting us from? As we look ahead to the midterms, some Democrats see this rift in MAGA’s base as an opportunity. Our hosts have some words of warning… 

 

And of course we’ll hear from you! If you’d like to submit a question, check out our tutorial video: http://www.instagram.com/reel/C5j_oBXLIg0/ and send to @nativelandpod. 

 

We are 474 days away from the midterm elections. 

 

Welcome home y’all! 

 

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We want to hear from you! Send us a video @nativelandpod and we may feature you on the podcast. 

 

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Watch full episodes of Native Land Pod here on YouTube.

Native Land Pod is brought to you by Reasoned Choice Media.

 

Thank you to the Native Land Pod team: 

 

Angela Rye as host, executive producer and cofounder of Reasoned Choice Media; Tiffany Cross as host and producer, Andrew Gillum as host and producer, and Lauren Hansen as executive producer; Loren Mychael is our research producer, and Nikolas Harter is our editor and producer. Special thanks  to Chris Morrow and Lenard McKelvey, co-founders of Reasoned Choice Media. 

Theme music created by Daniel Laurent.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native Lampard is a production of iHeartRadio and partnership with
Resent Choice Media.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome, Welcome home. Y'all. This is episode eighty eight of
Native Lampid, where we give you our breakdowns on all
things politics and culture. Of course, we're your hosts Tiffany Cross,
Angela Rye. There together, y'all, and this is me Andrew Gillim.
What's up, Hi.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
I want to start out by addressing a vicious rumor,
and that is Angela and I did not plan to
dress to like today. So if you ever see us
dressed alike, it just happens. It's just, that's all.

Speaker 4 (00:37):
What happened with Andrew, Andrew always doing the opposite, just
like he does.

Speaker 5 (00:43):
Welcome.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
We could be a nineteen eighties album cover with Andrew
in the middle, just butting a few more Bush.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Thank you, thank you so much.

Speaker 6 (00:59):
Okay, Yes, what Tom?

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Move right on past that.

Speaker 6 (01:06):
It was given Uncle Luke.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Are we talking about what we talk about?

Speaker 6 (01:12):
Speaking to Uncle Luke?

Speaker 4 (01:13):
Yeah, it sounds like and I'm not saying he's in
the Epstein files at all, but I am saying that
there is some treachery in those files and MAGA Republicans
don't want to release them after the community is split
on whether or not we should care that much, and
so is MAGA apparently.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, well, I definitely have a lot of thoughts on that.
I as always enjoy hearing from our viewers, and thank
you guys for always taking the time to record videos
and respond even when you disagree. I just enjoy hearing
from y'all, So I yield my time as I do
most weeks, so we can have time to hear from
our viewers.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
I love it. I love it. Well, I'm with you,
but I'm with you too, Angela, and I'd love to
pivot from that Epstein piece to see how are Democrats
as a party as an organization who we're trying to
win back power. It's gonna take advantage of this moment
or create their own moment to try to win the
hearts and minds of an American voters. So we'll get
to that on the other side, y'all, let's get at it.

Speaker 7 (02:13):
What's up Native lampod My name is Atalanta and I'm
a huge fan of the show. You guys actually inspired
me to start my own podcast called Solar Punking. Where
every Sunday we talk about solar punk ideology, things we
can do in our community to make them better, and
ways to build the world that we want to live in. Anyway,
the reason for my videos that Tiffany mentioned last week

(02:34):
come hard. It must be for law students right now,
and I can tell you as a current too, well,
it's been a struggle. I'm a second year law student,
and you know we're meant to read the material, absorb
the material, analyze the material, and apply the material and
sort of gaslad ourselves into believing it along the way.

(02:55):
Chevron difference was a really big one that changed for
us over my academic year. Birthright citizenship is a really
big one right now. Do process is a really big one,
and things are just changing so rapidly it's hard to
kind of keep up sometimes. But I got into this
because they wanted to be an advocate for my community.
So I'm going to stick it out today.

Speaker 6 (03:16):
End either way.

Speaker 7 (03:17):
Anyway.

Speaker 6 (03:18):
I love you, guys, motivated peace.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
Thank you at Alanda, we appreciate that.

Speaker 8 (03:27):
I know that is for real.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
The stay hydrated piece, well, we're popping bottles over here,
so hereous guys.

Speaker 6 (03:35):
I like sparkling water. I don't know what you like it.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
And you put me on water, but they ain't paying
for no branding on this show, so I'm putting it
on the floor. Yeah I like that brand too, But
the other brand you put me onto I really.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Liked yea Georgia. That's good.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
They hydrated. And I have a motivational water bottle that
tells you hour by hour, like I'll look at it
and it's like, by nine am, I should have consumed
this much. By ten am, this much, and so it
keeps me honest on drinking water. So anyway, thanks to
Adlanda for listening and taking the time to send in
that video.

Speaker 8 (04:08):
What else we got?

Speaker 6 (04:09):
Well do we not talking about with her video?

Speaker 8 (04:11):
Oh well, I didn't think she had a question. I
thought she was but we could talk.

Speaker 6 (04:15):
I just want to.

Speaker 4 (04:16):
Say I feel so bad for these law students because
I mean, I really agree with this point, because you
are trying to hang your hat, so to speak, on
the law, on something that you can lean up against,
and there are moments where you lean up against and
it it shifts a little bit.

Speaker 6 (04:32):
It feels like you lean up against this.

Speaker 4 (04:34):
Right now and you fall back into a black hole,
And so I do feel really bad for them because
what they have to navigate is not what is the
truth about humanity and what should be the law, but
also like the fact that people in twenty twenty five
don't know that that should be the case. That's a
different type of negotiating with truth. That is that's that's

(04:58):
really difficult. It's just I do not envy them. I
also feel bad for the law professors.

Speaker 6 (05:03):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (05:04):
That's what you're telling them, like, I'm about to teach
you some stuff in this case, and they wrong, they
all got it wrong.

Speaker 8 (05:09):
Well, can I make a quick point on that.

Speaker 6 (05:12):
CHERYLN.

Speaker 8 (05:12):
Eifel joined Howard Law.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
And I went to her reception and she was talking
about something that probably would have made a lot more
sense to you, but some legal precedent. And she was
talking about it, and there were people in the audience who,
you know, you heard the murmurs like what, I didn't
even know about that, And she said, yeah, exactly. When
I was in law school, I never knew anything about this.
And so she's like, raise your hand, acknowledge, make a
noise if you've heard about this, and this huge like

(05:38):
half the audience started clapping, and they stood up and
started clapping, and she looked over and composed herself and said,
those are.

Speaker 8 (05:45):
All my former law students.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
So whatever the piece was that she was talking about,
they knew about it because she told them about it. Yeah,
because she taught them. So shout out to CHERYLN. Eiffel,
you know how much we love you on this podcast.
And actually, let me just make this in the official
invite to her to join us on Native Land whenever
your time permits, madam next week.

Speaker 6 (06:07):
We hope, we hope that's the missus Eiffles court.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
But yeah, I think that's a good point on what
law professors are going through. And I said last week,
I think people who go to law school are trained
to think differently. So I'm just curious how people are
managing that. So thank you for playing in anything.

Speaker 6 (06:29):
Yeah, that's yes. If you if you have.

Speaker 4 (06:33):
To read through a textbook that may not hold true tomorrow,
what are you banking on.

Speaker 6 (06:41):
We hold these truths to be.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
What self evidence changing.

Speaker 8 (06:46):
We hold these truths to be changing.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
You know, you know, I don't know if you guys
have been following the biggest beef going on better than
any rap beef and that is what's happening in Scotus
with ACB and K with Amy Coney Barrett and Kintanji
Brown Jackson. This is the first time that our friend
Albert is always saying, read the opinions because they're written
for you know people, and I always get intimidated, like,

(07:11):
just explain it, tell me what happened. I have been
reading these opinions. And when I tell you, Justice Kintanji
Brown Jackson is here for it, and she comes in.
So what happens is the Descent will issue and correct
me if I'm wrong, The Descent will issue their opinion,
and Justice Jackson will issue her own. She issued her
own like they can say what they want to say,

(07:32):
but this is what I want to say, and had
her own statement where she was so clear and precise.
And then when ain't nobody call for her, Amy Coney
Barrett came out and responded to Kintanji Brown Jackson, I'll
do a horrible job and have to correct myself explaining it. No,
I think hers was written.

Speaker 6 (07:49):
She had.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
It wasn't verbal, like she issued a written opinion in
response to Justice Jackson, and it was clearly like so
petty she's clearly so intimidated by by Justice Jackson. Is
so ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
You know, one of the things that in addition to
feeling for law students, I'm feeling for criminally charged defendants
right now. And this alligator Alcatraz, that Rohn Deasantiss is
created here in Florida where they're supposedly detaining the worst
of the worst. And legislators went in there and found

(08:23):
out these folks, and most of which don't have infractions,
and in some cases should they have infractions, they're traffic
These folks aren't out here creating crimes and so on,
but they're more importantly, the sixth Amendment to the Constitution
allows for all of us to have rights to an
attorney should we be arrested, apprehended, or accused of some crime.

(08:44):
And right now lawyers cannot get in to see their clients.
They're being told when they show up to see their
clients that right now there isn't a system that can
facilitate them seeing their client. Well, we'll take your concern
and relay it. No, no, no, no, no. These are constitutional rights.
And guess what about the US Constitution. Its limits are
within the jurisdiction of the United States. And so whether
you are a citizen of the US, you're a visitor,

(09:07):
you are undocumented, you still have access to the rights
that are guaranteed there, and right now they're trifling over them.
And so I fear for law students in the world
they're being introduced to because what's up and what's down.
But I also fear for people right now who are
being detained American citizens included being detained without any access

(09:28):
to a lawyer, no access to their family, basically being
absented by the government who are wearing disguises when they
take them and put anywhere, including outside of the boundaries
of the geographical boundaries, in reach of the US government
or any of its courts by sending them to foreign
foreign countries. So the whole thing sucks. But we appreciate

(09:50):
the comment the comments as they as they continue to
come in. Let's take another one.

Speaker 9 (09:54):
Hey, Native Land Podcasts. This is changed from the New
York City and Andrew, I feel so see when you
scoop Tiffity Cross. I need that new season of Acrush Generations.
Angela Rye, I need on one back. I wanted to
contribute to the housing crisis conversation One example of why
the housing crisis exists in New York City is because

(10:15):
government salaries, specifically for city and state employees, do not
keep up with private industries, specifically with real estate rental.
On average, city employees make around forty thousand to sixty
thousand dollars with a forty five thousand to fifty thousand
dollars range. Really, and majority of those people are Blacks

(10:36):
and Latinos. A ruler thumb across mental real estate is
they want forty times to rent. So a lot of
times our average rant can be around three thousand dollars
for these new buildings being built, and so you have
to make around one hundred and twenty thousand dollars to
get into these buildings. And these people.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Don't sis Agela and a lot of people they to
rent to damn High But Andrew, this was a topic
that you introduced, the wanted to talk about, very passionate about.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, well, I want to continue to invite people.

Speaker 6 (11:05):
Do you remember the man to rent to damn High Man.
He probably would win the mayor all election right now.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
He sure would. I mean, and by the way, that's
a message that folks across the country can run with.
That's the problem with this crisis is that it isn't
just the New York cities of the world that are
experiencing it. All over working people, two income households struggling
to make ends meet, largely because the rents and the

(11:31):
mortgages and and and accessibility to affordable housing. And again,
affordable is whatever you can afford on your salary. So
don't think we're talking about Section eight or we're all
talking about Section eight, but we're talking about all housing.
And y'all, I'm not in my drink.

Speaker 8 (11:48):
Wondering what happened.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
I'm continuing to hydrate. But but importantly, this is a
crisis that is being experienced all across the country. And
I got to tell you, if politicians can office around
the country, I don't care what level of government you're
running for if they don't wake up and start talking
about this extreme wealth divide that folks are experiencing. The
income what's real, what you can afford. I go to

(12:11):
the grocery store, y'all. I don't know what y'all's experiences are,
but people literally have their phones out and they're googling
other stores to price compare. I had not seen this
in a very long time. People are real time price
comparing the price of toilet tissue here and if I
went't here what it would cost, And if I ordered
an Amazon, this is what it would cost. And I

(12:35):
don't think this experience that people are having right now
in real time has been yet reflected in our politics yet.
I don't think we've had an election to reflect what's
really going on yet, And I think we ought to
hold on to our seats when that happens, because anything
is possible when the bottom ninety percent of us get
frustrated with the circumstances as they are, especially when it

(12:57):
comes to our wallet.

Speaker 10 (12:59):
Thank you both entertaining my question on your last when
your previous podcast, my concern of talking to some of
us sometimes as if we are political mild contents was
responded to by Angela by challenging me to stop it
being mild content. I'm familiar with some of the work,
and I am critical, friend, but you are what every

(13:22):
black girl in America's descrived to be. And I feel
the same way about Miss Cross as well. But can
angel a pretentious response to me? Can that really show
the truth issue? And it also shows how deep the
equal chamber runs My side views some of you as
being politically compromised, and pushes a white supremacy wrapped up

(13:43):
in black activism for a party that don't care about us.
Your side treat my side similar to how Angela treated me.
There's nobody's listening, but it's just emotional and petty attacks
on pedagogical intelligence. Isn't that the issue?

Speaker 6 (13:59):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (13:59):
Well, thanks our dear friend for sending in yet another video.
I think what I would say to this is, you know,
we make assumptions in this life about people, about their
allegiances to things. And I just spent the last several
weeks connecting black people who are like minded and not

(14:20):
like not like minded at all, people who come from
different economic backgrounds, people who come from different zip codes
and states, and so I think the least of my
concerns right now is being somehow compromised to a party
that I ain't never paid my bills, and I just

(14:41):
wish I would. So, I mean, I don't have anything
other than I am for black folks uniting and figuring
out what our common ground is, what are common causes
and how we move forward and like minded fashion to
hopefully accomplish the same mission, which is our ultimate freedom
and liberation.

Speaker 6 (15:00):
The rest of that I'm not gonna respond to because
he ain't talking to me.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, I just want to say thank you friend for
sending in the video, and just to reiterate the point
that even in disagreement, we're all family and in conversation
with you. So I appreciate you listening to the next
episode where we did talk about your question and taking
the time to send in another video. I do take

(15:24):
your point about, you know, certain people looking at other
groups as being politically compromised for a party, and I
think that some of the I hope anyway, some of
the nuance that you get in this conversation. The three
of us don't agree on a lot of things. I'm
certainly not a party person. I'm never here promoting democratic

(15:46):
talking points at all. My interest is always in us
as a community, and I feel like I can say
that for my co host that that's always our first interest.

Speaker 8 (15:58):
So I would just ask you to keep.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
Tuning in, keep weighing in, and we certainly are not
above reproach and depend on our audience to hold us
accountable if you feel like something we're saying you disagree
with will always be open and receptive. I'm accountable to effects, yeah,
I am, But I'm saying if they are rooted in facts,
then we will engage. If it's not your experience or

(16:21):
or experience exactly their personal experience, I think it depends
I might not be accountable to your experience.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Well, I don't know that we're I don't know that
we're accountable accountable to someone's experience. Accountability requires that we
take some ownership, so on and so forth. But I
do think that people's experiences, and we often say this
when we're all talking about registering people to vote, If
your experiences is when you vote, nothing changes, And that's
been your experience every time you've done it, as people

(16:49):
have asked you to and admonished you to, and that
you felt compelled to. But yet nothing changes. Again, definitional insanity,
people's lived experience guides that practice. In fact, I lived
experience guys most of our practices. What we're experiencing during
the day very much so dictates what we end up doing.
And so I think people's experiences matter, and we're not

(17:13):
the arbiters of that truth, right they are.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yes, But I also think that would be a good
deeper philosophical mini pod.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Okay about not.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
To be accountable for your experiences or just accountable for facts?

Speaker 3 (17:29):
What are other people accountable for our experiences too?

Speaker 1 (17:34):
We would let a lot of people off the hook
if that became the new standard, if that people didn't
have to be responsible for our experiences in the world.
White folks right now largely have already wholesale taken themselves
off the hook for the legacy of slavery and segregation.

Speaker 8 (17:57):
And do we not try to hold them accountable for
our experience?

Speaker 1 (18:00):
I do believe.

Speaker 6 (18:01):
I do believe that experience I'm responsible for.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
Like your misunderstanding of me, I think that if I,
if I hurt your feelings, I can apologize to you
for hurting your feelings.

Speaker 6 (18:13):
That's subjective, but I also.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
Can say that is not what I was factually, that
was the intention. But let me let me acknowledge that
you were hurt in some way. What I'm not accountable for, though,
is like you painting me with a broad brush because
you using some talking points you learned about on the
Instagram comment I'm not gonna be responsible?

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Well, no, I don't. Well do we do?

Speaker 3 (18:33):
We want to have this as a mini want to
get it was even you saying it. I'm like that
we can take this politically, personally, professionally. I think there's
a lot of tentacles, So we can talk about it now.
We can have it as a mini pod.

Speaker 6 (18:44):
Who's going to remember that? We want it as me? Okay, okay,
all right, all right.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
But but I do think there was something said here
that Angela you may be able to lift off of,
which is this, what is the what is each side
saying to voters? What are they communicating right now? If
you would pick up the headlines, what's what's out there
right now? What does the voter get to consume? That's
a meaning.

Speaker 6 (19:12):
Well, we can talk about this.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
We were supposed to talk about this big, badass bill
and what people how it is being reported on right now.

Speaker 6 (19:21):
Of course, there's this case with.

Speaker 4 (19:24):
The Epstein files and how people are experiencing that failed promises,
which is not going to be a unique experience with
anyone who voted for Donald Trump based on some promises he.

Speaker 6 (19:34):
Made a lie gonna lie every day of a week.

Speaker 4 (19:37):
So I think that one of the things that we
have to be and one of the things that I'm
actually proud that we do on this podcast is we
don't let headlines and whatever's been like on the breaking
news ticker tape all day on a broadcast.

Speaker 6 (19:50):
We don't let that dictate what we share with our audience.

Speaker 4 (19:53):
So I think here, hopefully you are clear about what
the big badass Bill does. Here, hopefully you are clear
about why. Well maybe today you will be clear about
why this Epstein thing is in the news and why
his supporters fill away. But yeah, I think that we
have an obligation to tell people the truth, even if

(20:14):
it is in the bottom on the bottom fold, on
the other side of the headline. It's not something that
you're looking for, but it's something that.

Speaker 6 (20:21):
We think you need to know.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
I just want to remind all of our listeners, those
of you who may disagree with us vociferously, but you
still enjoy this opportunity to listen and share what we
do here at Native Lampid. The best way you can
support us at this point is to hey, rate, review, subscribe,
and continue to listen to anybody others to listen. We

(20:45):
need to support because we want to be around for
a good little while sharing this community with you. Angela,
go ahead and take us into what's at the top
of the fold that we may or may not believe

(21:06):
should be.

Speaker 6 (21:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:07):
So right now there is a maga war going on,
folks on actually both sides of the aisle are conflicted
about whether or not Jeffrey Epstein file should be released.
And Donald Trump is also speaking pretty ambiguously about this.

Speaker 6 (21:23):
So let's play what Donald Trump is saying right now.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
Your daughter in law said that there should be transparency
in the Epstein case.

Speaker 7 (21:31):
You agree with her, sir.

Speaker 5 (21:33):
The Attorney General's handled that very well. She's really done
a very good job, and I think that when you
look at it, you'll understand that I would like to
see that also, But I think the attorney general the
credibility is very important, and you want credible evidence.

Speaker 10 (21:51):
Or something like that.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
But she's handled it very well, and it's going to
be up to her.

Speaker 5 (21:56):
Whatever she thinks it's credible, she should release.

Speaker 11 (21:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (21:59):
Okay, so he's see would.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Used to say he would direct he was the chief
law enforcement. He directs.

Speaker 10 (22:06):
Well.

Speaker 4 (22:06):
And now you're asking Donald Trump to keep the truth going.
So let's go back to what Pam Bondi said earlier
this year about the Epstein files.

Speaker 12 (22:16):
The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
Well, that really happen.

Speaker 12 (22:22):
It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's
been a directive by President Trump.

Speaker 6 (22:27):
I'm reviewing that.

Speaker 12 (22:28):
I'm reviewing JFK files, MLK files. That's all in the
process of being reviewed because that was done at the
directive of the President from all of these agencies.

Speaker 4 (22:37):
Okay, so he directed her, but now it's completely up
to her. And now it sounds like Attorney General Pam
Bondi has changed her tune a little bit about what
is going to be released.

Speaker 6 (22:49):
Let's roll that President said today.

Speaker 11 (22:51):
You would release credible files related to mis reps.

Speaker 10 (22:54):
Are you prepared to do that?

Speaker 6 (22:55):
And when would you do?

Speaker 12 (22:57):
Our memo today our memo speaks for its off and
we'll get batch you on anything else.

Speaker 11 (23:03):
The DOJ memo said that it found no incriminating client
list and no credible evidence of blackmail, and therefore no
further disclosure.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
I think what is interesting and important here is that
there is this growing groundswell of folks who supported the president,
including the FBI director Cash Betel, his deputy Dan Bongino.
They think that these files should be released. Of course,
the FBI reports to the AGE at the Department of Justice,

(23:37):
and they are very divided and what they think should happen.
I think that this is a massive distraction from what
really matters, which is ensuring that our folks social Security, medicare, Medicaid, snap,
all of those things are still covered. Julian Epstein, Sorry,
Jeffrey Epstein, Lord have mercy on a college man. I'm sorry, Julian,

(23:58):
you did good people.

Speaker 6 (24:00):
Jeffrey Epstein is He's just not right.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
And I think that this is one of those things
where you know, there's nothing that we can do now
this man isn't here. There are a lot of people
who are victims, alleged victims, et cetera.

Speaker 6 (24:15):
I don't know how this is going to pay and.

Speaker 4 (24:17):
Cover people's most basic needs, but they are divided, and
people have suggested that this is a good place for
us to show that he's the liar that he is.

Speaker 6 (24:24):
But I feel like we've.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
Been saying this since twenty sixteen, Since twenty fifteen, I
think that's the key, Like this is the thing that
y'all want to be mad at Donald Trump over.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
It's such horseshit. I mean, we should just be honest.
The only reason the quote unquote Epstein Files ever became
a thing is because they dangled it as red meat
before their unintellectual base, because the subtext of was the
Clintons were attached to it, the Clintons were involved. So
the same half witted conspiracy theorists, believing idiots who supported

(24:57):
Pizzagate are now not only driving what our government focuses on,
but they're also driving the narrative in the media. I
looked at all this week. There's been breaking news, a
breaking news banner all week, all last week, will likely
be all next week because this tiny, niche group of
people is so focused on the Epstein Files. Dan Brigino

(25:17):
throwing a whole ass temper tantrum, not wanting to show
up to his job at the FBI because he is
mad about the Epstein Files, and we're talking about this
like it's normal. Not the fact that Dan Mangino or Bergino,
how real say his name Bongino, Not the fact that
he is a conspiracy theorist himself and he's the deputy
director of the FBI. Not the fact that he's an

(25:38):
election denier and he's the deputy director of the FBI,
not the fact that he has talked religiously saying that
there is no systemic racism in policing and police departments.
But this niche group of people get to focus on. Oh,
but Dan Mondino doesn't want to go to work anymore
because he's mad, Like, who.

Speaker 6 (25:56):
Gives a shit?

Speaker 3 (25:57):
I don't understand why this is even a subject. Second,
here's the hypocrisy. If we're so concerned about sexual abuse,
let me just tell you guys about Southwest Key Programs.
They were the largest shelter of migrants across this country.
They had multiple shelters throughout the country. There were multiple
accusations of sexual abuse of minors that took place at

(26:17):
this quote unquote nonprofit which was not really a nonprofit.
In March, the Trump administration completely shut down a Biden
era lawsuit that would have sought to hold this conglomerate
of shelters responsible for what they did. If we're so
concerned about sexual abuse, where the entire is the breaking

(26:38):
news banner for that? There is none, Because who cares
about migrant children. That's not the issue. That's not the
sexy thing. This shelter they got billions in federal contracts
for this abuse that allegedly took place during Trump's family
separation policies in twenty seventeen to twenty eighteen. They capitalized

(26:58):
off migrant children. So this country allowed migrant children to
become a billion dollar industry. They allowed children to become
a part of a business. So miss me with the
idea that these people care about the well being of children. Furthermore,
if we're so concerned about sexual abuse, there were multiple
reports in twenty sixteen of Donald Trump going into beauty

(27:19):
pageants where girls as young as fifteen years old were
getting dressed and they were obligated to greet him and
meet him, and him making completely inappropriate marks and remarks
and inappropriate gestures talking about these girls. If we're so
concerned about sexual abuse, then let's focus on that. But
that is not the real concern. Their concern, as Dan

(27:40):
Manzino has said, is to own the Libs. I don't
even know what that means, but it's some stupid, asinine
bullshit that these right wing extremists say. I don't even
get the point of it. So I'm frustrated. I don't
even care about his base. They don't frustrate me anymore.
What I'm frustrated with is the way the media is
being led by the nose, by this tiny group of people,
and they talk about it as though it is normal.

(28:02):
I'm not saying that Epstein case is not important. Let
the DJ pursue it. I'm saying, there is no way,
given what's happening in Gaza right now, speaking if we're
so concerned about children, the well being of children, the
tens of thousands of kids who are dying there, considering
what's happening in Sudan right now, and the children who
are dying there, considering what's happening in Kenya right now.

(28:24):
There are a lot of stories that we should be
focused on. This is not one of them. And quite frankly,
Congressman Hank Johnson, you know, did this whole video of
him playing the guitar and I'm thinking talking about the
Epstein case, and I just thought how insulting that has
to feel to constituents who are not focused on Epstein.
And it just feels like a moment that we are missing,
the moment. You're even on the democratic side, you're letting

(28:47):
them lead you around the nose for these social media
stunts and that, ain't it. That is not the thing
that's going to help people out. To Angela's point about
the big badass bill, is that what you call it,
The big badass bill like that deserve more attention. If
we're so concerned about kids, let's talk about the children
who will literally die because of this bill, the children
who will be kicked off, who won't have caregivers, who

(29:09):
won't have health insurance.

Speaker 8 (29:11):
So it's bullshit to me. Andrew, Sorry, I went on.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Tell us how you really feel. I mean, I felt
you You and Angela both there and I don't disagree.
But I will say, as it relates to the political moment,
is what is making this really outsized? Obviously over the coverage,
which I think is overblown, but I think one of
the things that's driving its nature is that there have
been very few things, In fact, I can't think of

(29:36):
one where Donald Trump's base has openly criticized, parted with him,
and are even damned trying to hold the Attorney General
accountable by saying she ought to be removed from office
or resign over this Epstein thing. And so the question
I think is becoming does this create a wedge issue

(29:58):
between Donald Trump and his really critical base, important for
not just his election but probably going to be critical
to the mitchruns as well. Does it create an opening
And I'm of two minds. One, I don't think that
there is a single one of these conspiracy theorists who
is an available voter for Democrats. I don't think that

(30:23):
is necessarily always what it would have been. But the
Democratic Party that today is the standard bearer for the
status quo and the defender of all institutions versus the
Democratic Party, at least sections of it, who used to
openly question conspiracies that were going on within the government,
cover ups that were taking place, the misuse of power,

(30:45):
going after black civil rights leaders, social justice leaders, and
using the government's instruments as cudgels to whip those people
into submission. There was once a Democratic Party that raised
those issues loud, repeated. You couldn't you couldn't refocus members
of the CBC twenty years ago, thirty years ago going

(31:08):
ham over the CIA and their involvement and the introduction
of narcotics into the black community.

Speaker 5 (31:15):
Right.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
You could ask them anything and they would have drove
it right back to that issue. But today's Democratic Party
appears to have adopted as its platform the defender of
all existing institutions, regardless of how corrupt they may have
been and what damage they may have done to our community.
So I don't think that conspiracy theories right now are
part of the Democratic coalition, and I don't believe that

(31:35):
they are available voters. But I do think that what
this moment might create, should these people's animosities be real,
is that it could have the effect of suppressing some
of these white male voters and others who turned out
for Donald Trump, who traditionally don't turn out to vote
at all. If that has the effect of keeping some
of them home, then I think fine, drive a niche

(31:59):
market a campaign to keep them out of the process,
so long as they're willing to opt themselves out of
the process because their conspiracy theories didn't pan out. But
if any Democrat running for office decides to wholesale redirect
their effort toward in Epstein and release the documents, you
are on your way to losing. Because, as Tiffany and

(32:21):
Angela have already so aptly pointed out, that is not
what our people are talking about. That's not what's keeping
them up at night. It doesn't inspire them and it
doesn't quite frankly distract them either, because they're not really
paying that kind of attention to Jeffrey Epstein or Jillian
his associate, who is serving time. Maxwell, who I think

(32:41):
is in Talla, hassee serving time last time I checked.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
She's the only person who served time out of that
whole thing, the woman and all of this is the
only person who served time. But she did serve as
someone who was facilitating these matchups. The question is what
she's just doing this for mister Epstein or what she
doing this for other parties as well?

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Right, and guess what? And again, legitimate questions are to
be asked on all those sides. I think that there
are legitimate questions about the US attorney who decided to
give Epstein a cushy deal in the first place, that
broke the Miami Herald, who broke the news on this
thing and busted it wide open. But we would be
I'm hearing people talk about the Democrats out to seize

(33:20):
this moment as for the midterms, and I am very
concerned that Democratic policy makers and elected officials who are
pursuing re election and the consultants who guide those campaigns.
I am very concerned that they are so weak need
about what is going to get Democrats back in power,
that they may be willing to co op this whole

(33:42):
storyline of Epstein and release the files. And I think
that would be a death ridden mistake and put the
nail on the coughing to whether or not there is
an opposition party to be spoken of after these midterm elections.

Speaker 6 (33:57):
Wow.

Speaker 8 (33:57):
I don't know that I disagree with that, but I think.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
I think it's a bad calculation.

Speaker 4 (34:03):
Yeah, I think that if they are to rest their
laurels on just releasing the files, then yes, But if
they use it as a wedge issue to create space
around what is fact versus fiction, I actually think it's
smart and broken promises, Like you know, yes, he broke
this promise to you, but let me show you all

(34:23):
the other promises.

Speaker 6 (34:24):
He broke to you. He's broken with you.

Speaker 4 (34:27):
And I feel like I'm being a hypocrite right now.
And I can feel Tip's eyes burning about to say
I hold in my cheek because what I'm about to
say is, I don't know if neutralization of those voters
is as significant as converting them, and and there and

(34:48):
I and I don't know. I was thinking that, Yeah,
it's it's hard because I think that it's a tall order,
It's a really tall order, because they would rather believe
to death in white so premiacy, then to believe that
they have anything in common with folks who look like us,
or any immigrant family or whatever.

Speaker 6 (35:08):
So it's hard.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
But I do think that when we are in desperate times,
and if we are honest, we have to acknowledge we
are in really desperate times, in really dire circumstances, we've
got to find allies that make the coalition.

Speaker 6 (35:22):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
That's why we got to convert our voters. We have
people who will be with us if they show up
to vote.

Speaker 11 (35:27):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
This is what the Harris campaign, and this is what
every campaign prior to her has done. They've identified these quote,
middle of the road folks who may share common calls
with us on a thing, and believed mistakenly that those
folks will adopt us wholesale when given the other option.
And they've proven time and time and again no matter
where they have exception with Donald Trump, they still go

(35:48):
home to him. And so if we're talking about limited
resources and how to spend those, I would never ever
suggest that a democratic campaign take their precious resources and
target them towards what they think is this maybe movable
middle of people who are now disrupted by a broken
promise over Epstein and convert them to their voters. If
you're going to convert voters, go to the black voters

(36:10):
down the street and the Latino voters and the white
liberal voters who have checked out of the process and
are choosing not to show up, and give them a
reason to show up. And I bet that the message
that they deliver on healthcare, on this big ass bad
bill that's going to that has created the largest shift
in wealth that we have ever seen in the history
of the United States, creating one so large that the

(36:31):
people who built the pyramids and the pharaohs themselves had
a less divide and wealth than we do today between
our oligards and we're working people.

Speaker 6 (36:42):
Did you create that? I like that. That's a good one.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
But this is this is what this is that is saleable.
Talk about the stuff that the majority of Americans disagree with,
both Trump voters and the middle of the road voters
and Democrats. And that's the bill that they just passed
that's gonna put all us in the poor house before
we know it. Well, obviously you can tell we got
a lot more to say on this. Let's pay some
bills and pick it up. On the other side, don't

(37:05):
want to miss this.

Speaker 6 (37:19):
Well, here's the only thing I'm saying. I hear that
I agree with that.

Speaker 4 (37:23):
I'm not saying, take your money Democratic Candidate X and
spend it on Epstein. What I'm suggesting is that we
don't let this pass by though, either because if the
roles are reversed and this was the Democratic Party doing this,
all they would want a special committee and they should
do that. They should do some of that. But I'm

(37:43):
not saying don't spend a dollar on it. Talking heads
should be talking about it, like, what is there tie,
I'm not saying that there is anything, but you call
into doubt everything that they are sitting with, every promise
that he's broken and this is one of many. Emphasize
this one is one of many, and then name five.

Speaker 6 (38:01):
Or six others.

Speaker 4 (38:02):
Just from a strategic standpoint, that is smart because at
some point, at some point, you would think they have
to start seeing the lie for what it is. It
didn't work, even though he was in office from sixteen
to twenty didn't work, or seventeen to twenty didn't work.

Speaker 6 (38:16):
They didn't buy it. I don't know why they didn't
buy it.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
I gave it, they didn't didn't. They determined that they
didn't care. And I think the same is true here
that if there is a connection in.

Speaker 6 (38:26):
My marrying and it's and it's and it is right.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
They care about this one of all the things.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
I don't know that do we have Speaker Johnson's clip.
I'm just curious do we have?

Speaker 1 (38:35):
We should pull that up, But Angela, just to find
a lot, I think that your point is well, I
think it's right. Definitely, don't let this thing slip by.
If there is a if there is a whole to
be manipulated to create a greater one.

Speaker 6 (38:50):
Not even manipulation, it is a And this is my
whole point.

Speaker 4 (38:53):
I think that one of the things that they do
poorly that we don't do when we when the facts
and the truth and what is right is on our side,
we still don't utilize it.

Speaker 6 (39:03):
And I don't get why, Like I.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Think telling them about his lives is going to do it.
If we are going to connect an issue, it needs
to be to the economy people are going to vote
on their wallets come.

Speaker 6 (39:15):
That novel here of that, because I'm not All I'm.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Saying is I don't think that. I don't believe that
the strategy of stringing along all of his letdowns and
lies is going to be the way forward. They are
aware of them, they are complicit with them. They have
forgiven them, or they have said they don't matter up
until this issue. And I'm saying, on this issue, I
would say Donald Trump again is proven that he is

(39:39):
just for himself. And the fact that budget bill did X,
Y and Z that that that that reiterates the facts,
that makes plain to us He's willing to close our hospitals.
He's willing to take our hospital.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
Didn't they don't care about our say close your hospital.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
What I'm saying our I mean in my community.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
I know I'm saying. Talk to them other ones, it's
their hospitals.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
It is absolutely But to them, if it's their community,
it's he's willing to close our hospital.

Speaker 6 (40:08):
When they hear you say our, they don't they think good.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
I'm not saying. If I'm the voice of the voter,
wherever that voter is, they are they are reflecting on
what they have lost. I want them to know what
is being taken from them, because they don't seem to
care about his lies, his missteps, and his mispromises. But
when I see people in the stores with their calculators
and their cell phones price comparing toilet tissue and paper towel,

(40:35):
I know that this is going to be an economic
collection again. And if we get sidetracked and run down
the wrong road, make the wrong connections, draw the wrong parallels,
we are going to find ourselves out of office yet again.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
I think I think you're both making a legitimate point.
I think Angelia will correct me if I'm wrong. But
I think what Angela is saying, which because I did
when you said that, I was like, hmm, I don't
know how I feel about celebrating people sitting out the price,
even if they are people who disagree with me. So
I think, Angela, you're saying, instead of, you know, just
discarding them, let's try to convert them. And at first

(41:11):
I was with you, but then hearing Andrew, I'm like, yes,
that presupposes that they are convertible, and they are not.
This is not a political party, this is a political cult.
It's a lifestyle cult.

Speaker 6 (41:23):
But the cult has fractures.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
Well, all groups have fractures. I don't know if it's
fractured enough.

Speaker 6 (41:28):
I don't know either.

Speaker 3 (41:31):
I know it's not fractured enough that they would ever
come to R side. There's been enough data to support
that for the past ten years in this society. We've
even seen video evidence. If I can find it, I'll
play it on a later episode. But there was actually
a group of people who had Trump supporters, and they
were posing questions to them, and they had faked audio.

(41:53):
It was like AI and they had faked all these
things that Donald Trump said, and he talked about sleeping
with his daughter, He talked about the the most obnoxious things,
and one by one they all found a way to
excuse it, to apologize for it. Even people who have
been fired from their jobs, who have been directly impacted,
have said, I do not regret my vote. I just

(42:13):
didn't think it would happen to me. You voted for
it to happen to someone else, but you didn't think
it would happen to you. And even when it does
happen to you, you are still resolute. You are so convicted,
and that they're united in our impression you're so convicted
in your belief that you need, that you ought to have,
that you deserve and that we do not, that you're

(42:34):
willing to cut off a limb just to make sure
that we don't have. So I get your point, I
just don't I know that they are not convertible.

Speaker 6 (42:43):
So what's our path? And ask this?

Speaker 4 (42:49):
So what I'm saying is Andrew and tif Uh, my
question is, if you don't think that they're gettable, that
they're not convertible, what is the path forward?

Speaker 6 (43:00):
Because we have the math, a mathis so what's the
path forward? Is it going to the ninety million? What
is it like?

Speaker 8 (43:06):
What motivating ore is to what ends motivating voter?

Speaker 1 (43:10):
So let's be very clear.

Speaker 6 (43:10):
We do have the numbers.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
We do have the numbers when their regular base shows up.
You see what Donald Trump benefited from.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
Was he he had a hyper sized, uh white production
of white Yeah, that.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Is not the normal course of white voters in this country.
He juiced it. So when I say keep them home,
I'm saying, y'all weren't interested before, go back to being
non interested. I absolutely do care about what voter suppression
looks like. When they suppress our vote they change the laws, right,
they make it illegal for us to access it. What
I'm talking about is not a llegal means by which

(43:44):
to suppress a vote. That's not my issue. I'm saying,
you thought you bought into a system by buying Donald
aprothetic that reflected what you think, your values, your your
best interests, and now it's proven that that ain't true
for you on this issue of Epstein, whatever that be.
All these guys are losers. Don't support any of them.

(44:07):
And guess what, that's not a hard argument. That's what
they believe before and that's what they believe now, except
except for Donald Trump.

Speaker 8 (44:14):
But you're the path forward.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
Democratic voters who are already our voters but have chosen.

Speaker 8 (44:26):
But I guess I'm asking that gets us to a win.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
That okay, But what I'm asking is in the current
infrastructure that we have, in the Democratic Party that exists
in this country, and in the Maga cult that exists
in this country, in the big bucket of apathetic people
that exist in this country, do you think that is
a logical path forward that can produce a tangible success

(44:52):
when it comes to policy and participation?

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Okay, absolutely, guess what that that produced, that produced Joe
Biden and twenty twenty. What produced Joe Biden was the
fact that Republicans who had been there for him in
twenty sixteen decided they were not going to be there
in twenty twenty. What did they do? They sat at home.
By the way, that is also the gateway that gave

(45:16):
us Barack Obama. The same white voters who showed up to.

Speaker 8 (45:19):
Put they stayed home in twenty.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
Twenty four did not decide that they were going to
block Obama from becoming president. They stayed home.

Speaker 6 (45:30):
Some of them voted for Barack Obama.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
That may be true, but I'm telling you the victory doesn't.

Speaker 8 (45:34):
Yeah, but not in number. Overwhelmingly.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
They stayed home in two thousand and eight, in two thousands, well,
but there were vertibles. Well, I don't know that they
were convertibles. There were people who were frustrated with the
Bush administration. So it wasn't necessarily a vote for Obama,
but a vote against the party that.

Speaker 4 (45:51):
Existed, the same thing that we may be going tours now.
It could be a coalition of people who are voting
against what they thought they were.

Speaker 8 (45:58):
I don't I think I'm a playbill. Almost twenty years old. Now,
I don't know what.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
We need to throw ship at the wall to see
what sticks. That's the playbook, his ship.

Speaker 6 (46:11):
We need our own ship at his ship. But it
sounds like.

Speaker 8 (46:17):
You are hopeful, like you face, I.

Speaker 6 (46:22):
Am desperate, is what you're Okay, that's desperate answer to
get people. I am not. Let me make sure that
everybody p s a everybody.

Speaker 4 (46:30):
I am not opposed to getting black people out to
the post. I am not opposed to getting brown people
out to the polls. I am not opposed to getting
Indigenous people out to the post. What I'm saying is,
with all of that, we still need to make sure
we have more numbers. Andrew is saying we to include
white people today. That's a new breaking news on this show.

(46:51):
That's fine, Andrew. I'm with we being white people too great.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
But I'm just saying this is, this is, this has
been our map by the way to victory every cycle,
juicing our voters over theres.

Speaker 6 (47:04):
But your hour is very loose in a way that
was confusing.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
I'm saying.

Speaker 8 (47:07):
I'm saying this is the difference as a democratic voter.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
That's not what I'm saying. Our let me define it.
Real quick. Yeah, our are the voters who, if they vote,
they will vote for Democrats.

Speaker 6 (47:21):
Okay, so what she said.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
That's not a Democratic voter.

Speaker 8 (47:25):
Yes, I understand, but it makes your difference.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
It's a big difference.

Speaker 6 (47:31):
So what is it then?

Speaker 8 (47:32):
Who's the power is somebody who will vote for it.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
It doesn't matter if Democrat, if your party, but if
you vote, you will vote for.

Speaker 6 (47:39):
But includes white people.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
And he's not speaking right. He's not speaking from a
race perspective. He's speaking from a political perspective.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
I'm right, And so I want to contrast that voter,
that voter who if they vote, they will vote for
the Democrat. I want to contrast that voter with a
voter who has to be persuaded. A voter who has
to be persuaded is one who is right now inclined
to supporting Donald Trump, probably has and is up until
this point, up until this fisher has arrived. That persuadable

(48:08):
voter one has to make has to draw the conclusion
that they're in a better bed if they switch over
and vote for the Democrat than they would have on
the whole. Taking the totality of their interest into consideration,
then they would be if they stayed with Donald Trump
or state with the Republicans, or they could also draw

(48:28):
the conclusion that they're pissed as hell with the Republicans.
They don't sanction what they did on Epstein or maybe
some other issue, and they say I'm staying home. I
think we underestimate the power of a voter who is
determined to vote for Democrats don't easily get persuaded to
change their vote to a Republican and vice versa. I

(48:50):
will never so long as I live and have a
brain to think with and hard to care with, I
don't think I'll ever be in common cause with today's
Republican party. I don't care how mad I get with Democrats.
I may vote for a third party, I may not
vote at all on that particular race. But to tell
me to be bad at Democrats on this issue and

(49:12):
then go wholesale to the other side, who's ninety nine
percent agenda is against me, it's tom foolish. It is.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
So you're saying there's a pathway on the other side.
I think Angela is kind of saying the same thing.
Out of desperation, let's try to get whomever we can.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
I'm just saying we don't have to be desperate and
make the choice to go persuadable.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
I get the nuance you're saying, like tap into people
who are receptive.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
To We're already with you, yes, right, because.

Speaker 3 (49:44):
You and I agree that anybody who's a Trumper.

Speaker 8 (49:47):
Is not convertible.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
It is not convertible.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
And I think Angela correct me if I'm wrong. You're saying,
let's try to get everybody, including them. Let's try to
get everybody.

Speaker 6 (49:55):
And I'm not saying starting with them.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
I hope I'll never clearly abandon your base, and by base,
I don't mean just the people who turned out in
this last election. Yes, if there is another election, we
need to have all hands on days.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
I think Democrats interpret that message of persuadable and go
get everybody to mean that ninety percent of their budgets
around who they talk to.

Speaker 6 (50:19):
Done.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
But that's why I'm saying that the message must be
clear here to the extent. By the way, I'm not
saying every person to a person who is with Donald
Trump can't be converted. That's not what I'm saying. What
I'm saying is they cannot be converted, and large enough
numbers to make an electoral difference, and that's what matters
at the end of the day. So the numbers that
make a difference are your voters going to the polls.

(50:41):
That's why the negotiation of Democrats and candidates make every
time when they're in cycle is whether they spend their
money toward getting voters who are not with them but
persuading them to their side to now vote, or doubling
down on your current base of voters and juicing that
number to the best of your ability. Democrats in my
state have large we believed that the best investment is

(51:02):
and taking those precious resources and spending it toward what
you believe is the movable middle, I think, and every
time that lesson has taught us a loss.

Speaker 6 (51:10):
I think.

Speaker 4 (51:11):
My frustration with this conversation is we are talking about
an election that's not currently happening, and all I'm talking
about right now is getting these folks aligned with the
with us on other issues so that we can proactively
fight and then put up what an alternative to what

(51:31):
this disaster.

Speaker 6 (51:32):
Is looks like.

Speaker 4 (51:34):
Right now, we keep talking about an election that I
want to be honest with people, we don't know is
going to happen.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
It is scheduled. It is scheduled.

Speaker 6 (51:43):
It is scheduled across it's scheduled.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
But I'm just saying, I know you mean, I'm saying
that there are people who are DOCA recipients, who are
in holding facilities and ready to be deported. I'm saying
that the rule of law does not matter. Whether it's
about immigration, or it's about our civil rights, or it's
about labor, it doesn't matter. Like everything is on the

(52:06):
chopping block, and at the very least, maybe if we
pull together right now, we can stop some of the hemorrhaging.
I'm not at the election yet, so I mean, I'm
happy to have an election conversation, but I think that's
foolish because there are so many fights that we have
to have to even get there and to even.

Speaker 6 (52:22):
Protect whether or not election day would be here for
us to go cast a ballot.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
Don't go anywhere, guys, because we're shifting focused to midterms.
I think gonna happen or not, let's get into it.
We'll see on the other side. So I definitely I
understand what Jaday and Angela completely because you brought it up.

(52:48):
I want to punctuate this point about midterms, because we
talked about this last week on the podcast, and producer
Nick is telling us we have like ten minutes left,
so I'll be brief so we can get to our CCA's.
But we see already Republicans cheating in Texas. They are
the Republican control legislature is redrawing the maps. And so

(53:10):
what Republicans would say is, well, how can you say
that we had more people vote in the last election
in the time before. And yes, you have more people voting,
but they're voting in jerrymandered congressional districts. And jerry mandering
is something that's practiced by both parties. It's not illegal,
but racial jerry mandering is. And those two twin components
are often right exactly those two twins. Well, they're still

(53:32):
technically illegal. But what's illegal?

Speaker 8 (53:34):
Now, what's the law the Civil.

Speaker 6 (53:36):
Rights Division that would normally look at these maps and
tell them.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
That they have reclassed white people as the victim class,
and the Civil Rights Division at the DLJ. And so
I take your point Angela, where you're saying, we're talking
about an election that's not here and that may not
happen in the terms of how we experience elections to happen.
We've never really had free and fair elections, but it
has been in boldened now where they're throwing everything at

(54:00):
the bit. My perspective on that ridge, even if Democrats
were to seize control of the House, the Senate, and
some state legislatures across the country, I don't know that
this party, even given a modicum of power, is ready
to meet the moment to combat what we're seeing happening
by the Trump administration. I'm not saying to abandon hope.

(54:21):
I'm not saying don't vote. I think, to Angelo's point,
we have to fight with everything we've got everywhere we
can fight. I want to make that clear. I reach
y'all's comments that y'all tired of me and the doom
and gloom. Fine, I'm trying to say there is something
that can be done. I'm not encouraging or discouraging action
from anyone. I just don't know, when you ask what
the path forward is, I don't know that there is

(54:44):
a path to stop what we're seeing. I'm a bit exhausted.
These were the things that we grew up reading about
are still happening in our lifetimes. The things that we've battled,
the things that we've seen happen. Mandatory minimums are back
mass and Carson will once again increase if you look
at Project twenty twenty five as a guide. So I

(55:05):
just don't know that there's a path to a better tomorrow.
The only path I can focus on is a path
to shelter and safety for our people. And when I
say our people, I mean our community. And if we
can ally if fifty or fifty two percent of Latino
men voted for Donald Trump, I'm certainly willing to ally
with the forty eight percent who did not, and I

(55:28):
would extend that to all communities across which I think
is your point.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
Andrew Well, I would just say, as a matter of
not my opinion, but of fact, if Democrats were to
become the majority party inside the House of Representatives, as
they have under Hakim Jeffrey's leadership, the Speaker designee of
the House of Representatives, should Democrats gain control, he has

(55:54):
been able to hold his party to vote to a
person every Democrat against the Republican's agenda. So far in
this as an opposition party, they ain't been the greatest
on messaging. I have issues with the fact that they
should do more alternative programming opposite what Trump's doing. When
he signed that build better, build badly, build that will

(56:17):
burnish all of us, they should have had counter programming.
I got my issues, but I know this much. There
were speakers of the House that could not do could
not match what he's been able to do to this
point by keeping all Democrats voting the exact same way.
If he's able to carry that into leadership as the
Speaker of the House, he can stop Donald Trump's agenda wholesale,

(56:40):
should it have anything to do with a piece of
legislation that needs to be passed through both the House
the Senate and then signed into law by the President,
they could bring their legislative agenda to a complete and
total halt. Suddenly, when they gain control, they can appoint
chairmans of committees that can launch investigations across the broad

(57:01):
swipe of this government, and they can barrel this administration
and investigations. Now, the Supreme Court may have made Donald
trumpet king, but everybody under him can be punished by
the law, can be jailed, can be prosecuted if they
run a foul of the law. So a Department of
Justice that says ignore the orders of a judge or

(57:23):
a just right.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
That that is what I swear. I was sitting here thinking,
so let's just say that he's gonna be right. So
they run investigations, they find him guilty, I would direct
you to the Muller Report.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Put him to the work of doing it.

Speaker 4 (57:37):
I think, I think, Andrew, this is this is where
I think we get it wrong.

Speaker 6 (57:41):
I mean, I really do that.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
Opposed to what we have today, which is we can
put masks up and hold signs up during a speech
but have no power to do anything.

Speaker 6 (57:50):
Well, what I think that.

Speaker 4 (57:52):
I think that my issue is, in order for us
to change what is happening, we have to accept what is.
And I think some of the things that we keep
putting up as strategies to combat what's going on is
denial of what is actually happening.

Speaker 6 (58:09):
Yes it is, Andrew, you can shake your head.

Speaker 4 (58:10):
But I'm saying, like, if you keep coming up with
solutions that would work in ordinary circumstances, or we're gonna
engage in oversight, We're going to pass legislation to do
He's still got to sign a bill into law.

Speaker 6 (58:22):
He's not going to sign it into law.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
No, law. There will be no law.

Speaker 6 (58:26):
There's not law now, there's not. Yes, there's not.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
There's lawlessness now because Republicans run rough shot over the
government at every level.

Speaker 6 (58:34):
Andrew, that's why, Andrews.

Speaker 11 (58:36):
Let me.

Speaker 6 (58:36):
Let me just make sure that.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
We just no lot of that.

Speaker 6 (58:39):
That I'm not saying something different.

Speaker 4 (58:41):
I'm saying and as our friends Vince will say, I
am in violent agreement with you on that and to
that point, because there is rampant lawlessness. Because the folks
on January sixth, twenty twenty one are now literally in
the freaking cabinet, we have a different set of circumstances.

Speaker 6 (59:01):
This is wartime now. This ain't no time to pass
your little bill that he's not gonna sign.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
This is not your.

Speaker 4 (59:06):
Time to hold a special have a special committee and
an oversight responsibility around his God. This ain't the time
to go knock on the doors of the Department Education
is about to be defunded and hope they'll let you in.
This ain't the time to go and try to sit
down and meet with him and come let us reason.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
Everything you're talking about is wellowed persist, because there's a
way I'm not done. No accountability there's exactly.

Speaker 4 (59:28):
And the accountability, No, the accountability won't change in a
year and a half when maybe my could potential twenty
twenty six elections come up.

Speaker 6 (59:37):
I don't think that. I don't think that's what time
it is. I think the time is now inaccurate. It's
not How is it accurate?

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Because where you are failing to take into consideration, I'm
not I'm not talking about Democrats advancing any legislation. I
don't think that'll do anything other than investigate the mother
put people in jail who are breaking the law.

Speaker 6 (59:56):
And he's gonna let them out of jail.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
Stand up the third that's fine, put into the work line.

Speaker 6 (01:00:02):
It put Andrew, it's not fine.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
And I'm telling you that's what I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Saying, until until they have to do it, until they're
out of office.

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
And I was presuming that they're going to be out
of office. So I guess all I'm saying is because
let me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
There are some bedrocks to the system.

Speaker 6 (01:00:20):
Andrew, the bad rocks have been shook.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
To their own because they are in total and complete control.

Speaker 6 (01:00:26):
Yes, and that's not going to change.

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
The Supreme Court makeup is not going to change. Or
three branches, Andrew, the three branches are compromised.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
The three branches are compromised because Republicans control all Yes,
and Andrew, Wait a minute. As a matter of factor
and not an opinion, Andrew, is that if Democrats hold control,
they are one of the one third that makes up
the governing structure of the country. I hear you saying
that everybody's.

Speaker 4 (01:00:56):
Rolling the government, which puts us in the constitutional crisis
we're in right now. He's defied the constitution because there's
in a constitutional crisis to him, No, Andrew, even with
the opposition, Andrew, if the Democrats get control of the House,
they might they likely won't get control of the Senate.
They still are going to be in a constitutional crisis

(01:01:17):
if the Democrats get control of the Senate.

Speaker 6 (01:01:19):
But it is a constitutional not.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
A constitutional executive. Democrats only control one bud. It is
not a constitutional crisis, Andrew.

Speaker 4 (01:01:28):
It is if you decide, all that require is required
for a constitutional crisis is for one branch of government
to defy the orders of another. It is happening every
single day. The other thing that I want you to consider,
maybe we talk about it next time. They getting ready
to do a constitutional.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
Convention and then and then well is it not good?

Speaker 6 (01:01:49):
Not good?

Speaker 8 (01:01:50):
But let me it's not good to open it in.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
A long time, and there are a lot of people in.

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
The legislats that are going to rough shot over everything
public and lead, Yes, what.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
I think because because unfortunately we're out of time, guys,
I think we can either pick this up on the
mini pod because I think this is a good I
think what you two are representing our factions on our
side of the divide, because I find myself getting frustrated
with things.

Speaker 8 (01:02:15):
Both of y'all are saying and agreeing with things.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
Both of y'all are hands so and I think that
there's that we all are saying the same thing on
some level. So with that, unfortunately we do have to
move to CCAS and we're doing this normally. We will
let the conversation go for the folks listening and watching,
but Angela has a flight, we have more to record.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
It's all good. We got to be disciplined do with
our time.

Speaker 8 (01:02:35):
I guess, yes, and then we can move it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Forward, which is simply that there are some dead rocks
that if a conversation is supposed to happen collesially that
have to be under recognition. We don't get the makeup facts. Facts,
we have opinions. Facts should be immutable, and we're all
entitled to an opinion, but we're not entitled to our
own facts. And I do think that I hope this

(01:03:00):
bay continues, not only on this platform, but wherever you are.
I hope you are assessing what options you have to
hold your elected officials accountable.

Speaker 8 (01:03:11):
Love it handle well?

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
Yes, I hope that people are not having fact free
debates at home. We certainly don't do it on this podcast.
But I would also say I am hopeful that folks
will take the time I have m a sound like
you today tip to read what's really going on and
make an assessment, even spiritually, about where you think we are.
I don't think that things are going to be as

(01:03:35):
fixable just with one election, because our democracy has essentially
been unraveled in seven months time. So I'm hoping that
people will really see how they can lean in what
they feel called to do and push. It's going to
take all hands in, all great minds and innovation on
deck to make it through this one.

Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
My CTA is just curating moments of joy. I wants
to thank everyone for agreeing with Andrew and me and
our CTA from last week for the speakerphone Angela, Yeah,
the poll, the data is and speakerphones are out.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
That's it.

Speaker 6 (01:04:16):
Walking down the street, we're doing that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
Like even yesterday, I'm like, I feel like I'm being
trolled because I said this, and now everybody around me
is on a speakerphone. So I want to thank you
guys for weighing in. I also want to thank you
all for weighing in with all your comments about Angela's glasses,
which I get to see in person. Everyone loves your glasses.
They were like, Angela, so you got those glasses. So
I want to thank you all for that. So this
is just my joyful moment saying thank you for agreeing

(01:04:42):
with me because that felt nice. Uh, And to invite
you all to curate moments of joy because whatever the
path forward is, if it's OVA in five years, five months,
or whatever, treat each day like it's your last. Tell
the folks you love them. Do what makes you feel
good as long as it le and just you know,

(01:05:03):
that's my whole thing. If it don't make me smile
or laugh, I don't want no parts of it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
There it is curate joy and as always we want
to remind everyone to please leave us a review and
subscribe to Native lampod. We're available on all podcast platforms
and YouTube of course. And did you know that Native
lampod is part of a podcast network called Reason Choice Media.
You should know that after this episode, We've got a

(01:05:27):
lot of colleagues over there. Jamel Hill is on Reasent
Choice Media Network with her show Politics, and se Cup
on her show with Off the Cups cupp Be sure
to check out those and don't forget to follow us
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lists on native lampod dot com. We are of course

(01:05:51):
Angel Rah, Tiffany Cross, and I'm Andrew Gilliam. Welcome home, y'all.
There are four hundred and seventy four days until the
inevitable mid term elections.

Speaker 8 (01:06:01):
If we can keep it wealthy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Thank you for joining the natives, attention to what the
info and all of the latest Roy Guillem and Cross
connected to the statements that you leave on our socials.
Thank you sincerely for the patients. Reason for your Choice
is cleared, so grateful and took to execute roads for
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home to all of the natives, we thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
Native Lamppid is a production of iHeart Radio and partnership
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