January 9, 2026 • 24 mins
For the MiniPod this week, our hosts respond to one of your questions: what would America look like if Obama was never president? Policies aside–Obama was such a powerful symbol for Black America. His presidency also inspired a powerful backlash. Our hosts discuss the legacy of Obama and the symbolism of Obama as they ask: was it worth it?
Join our hosts, Angela Rye, Andrew Gillum, and Bakari Sellers.
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Native Land Pod is brought to you by Reasoned Choice Media.
Thank you to the Native Land Pod team:
Angela Rye as host, executive producer, and cofounder of Reasoned Choice Media; Andrew Gillum as host and producer, Bakari Sellers as host and producer, and Lauren Hansen as executive producer; LoLo Mychael is our research producer, and Nikolas Harter is our editor and producer. Special thanks to Chris Morrow and Lenard McKelvey, co-founders of Reasoned Choice Media.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native Lamb Pod is a production of our Heart Radio
in partnership with Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
And welcome to our mini pod. Welcome home, y'all. This
is always an amazing Native Land production here where we
get an opportunity to just sell the complimentary Yeah. No,
we get an opportunity to that was that was us
self complimented? Yes, And while we are grieving missing our
homegirl Tiffany Cross on this show, we do have for
(00:30):
the first time the three of us joining together for
this mini pod. And we got an interesting question that
was asked and I actually, uh, this was this was
my idea if y'all can't tell, but I want to
pose it to the larger group. Can we browe that
question real quick? And then I want to think about it.
I want to I want Andrew to start with this.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
No, why why a G Because I talked too much?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
I wait, No, I don't do that.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
No, you just covered the whole pod, so rude.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
Hello Native Land Pod. My name is Paula Chandler. I
am sixty two years old and a native of Washingtonian
and I have been with you guys from day one.
My question to the group is, and it's kind of
(01:17):
a hypothetical but maybe more of a discussion point for
maybe a mini pod. But there was a bio series
on Showtime a couple of years ago that featured three
First Ladies, Michelle Obama, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Betty Ford. And
there was one scene where Michelle Obama, they and Barack
(01:40):
were transitioning out of the White House. Trump had been
voted in in twenty sixteen, and Michelle Obama played Viola
Davis asked the question do they hate us that much
to vote this kind of person into office? I'm pair
for raising, but that's what the gist of it was.
(02:05):
And my question to the group is what would this
country look like if Barack Obama was never president?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Miss Paula, thank you for your thank you for your question,
thank you for the death.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Wait can I ask a question, Macaary, Is this the
same show? I never watched the show, but is this
the same show? Where Viola Davis looks at who is supposed.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
To be Barack Obama said, because you are nic is
it that show?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
She made some very strange facial expressions throughout the.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
We need can we run next?
Speaker 6 (02:47):
No?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
No, controversial, David.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
She knows I love her, but.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
She played that part hard. It was hard.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
This is the this is y'all are miss see. This
is why I don't This why I'm not the lead.
This is this is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
You have the floor, yep.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
So I thought the question. Paula. Shout out to you.
You look amazing to be fifty years young. Ain't no
way you sixty two. I know all that whispering you
doing at you at your desk right there. We love
it them frames. You've been drinking your water in minding
your business. It's a great question about what happens. Have
y'all ever thought about that if Barack Obama was an
(03:26):
elected president?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I have you well, let's hear it. I want to
you were supposed to.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Haven't know.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I haven't given a lot of consideration to us.
Speaker 7 (03:33):
I like it.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
H I mean, I may go ahead, Angela, so go
ahead tell me what you think.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I feel like I talked a lot in the last show,
So please have your floor.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
You actually didn't. You didn't talk enough.
Speaker 6 (03:45):
But you didn't.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
You didn't talk enough.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
But like, but I'll have the floor.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah, I'm gonna take it. But you but you definitely.
Your voice is definitely so controversial.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
So you go, I'll be sandwiched between the two diplomats.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Well, I just think that they're too things that there
are two things that I would say about Barack Obama
if he was not elected president. The first is that
there is a picture that I remember from Jacob Philadelphia.
Y'all may or may not remember Jacob Philadelphia, but at
the time he was four years old, he was in
the White House, his parents had just gotten decommissioned, and
he got an opportunity to ask the president one question,
and he said, does your hair feel like mine? And
(04:19):
the shade God as we call him, Pete SUSA, captured
that image of Barack Obama leaning over and letting Jacob
Philadelphia shout out to Jacob. I think he just graduated
college or is in college now, which to make you
feel old. But I just think that Barack Obama's presidency
meant so much to an entire generation of young black
and brown children that they could grow up and be
(04:41):
anything in the world. There was so much hope just
about we're not talking about his accomplishments, we're not talking
about the criticisms we have, We're not talking about him
using drones. We're not talking about you know, the Affordable
Care Act, of successes, all of those things. But what
we are talking about is just what he meant in
terms of hope for black people, and I think that
they're there is a lot to say that a black
(05:01):
man can be president. That's first. Second. I am really
really pleased at my father and all the work of
our parents, Eddie Rott, and just the heroes and heroines
we know, who bled, who got shot, many of which
who died, who you know, paid the ultimate what Abraham
Lincoln called the last measure of devotion, so that we
(05:21):
could make you know, some similance of progress in this country.
I'm glad they got an opportunity to see, you know,
a black man get elected in this country. I'm glad
they got an opportunity to see that. So I think
the hope and the reward, although you know, you know,
we've taken multiple steps back, I think I think that
(05:43):
means a lot. So that's why those those are the
those are the kind of points I would make if
he didn't get elected. And I don't know what the
country looks like without him, but I do know that
he made a great deal of progress, not as much
as we would have wanted. And I just think think
about about going from George W. Bush to Donald Trump.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, I I go back and forth about this so much,
and not about whether or not he should have been president,
because I know how much it meant to me that
we had Barack Obama as our president. What I will
say is it felt divine. It felt like he was
called when all the odds were against him, there was
(06:26):
still a path created. I remember, you know, crying and
begging my congressional boss at the time to endorse him.
There was a split in the Congressional Black Caucus where
you know after it. I wasn't the CBC executive director yet,
but when I became the ED, I learned that Barack
Obama was hardly active and that a lot of them
(06:47):
felt like he wasn't very respectful and definitely wasn't deferential
to them, and that was hard. And then having sat
in meetings with him and the CBC, it was difficult
to watch his behavior, including him doodling the entire time
in a meeting. I walked over to make sure that's
what he was doing. I went to go look at
the notepad after he was doodling the entire time the
members of Congress were talking. And yet when you look
(07:11):
at who replaced him, you can't help but to understand
just how presidential he was, and just how much he
earned that position, and just how much he was overqualified
when you consider the competition.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I don't agree with every decision he made.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I don't agree with the advice that he currently gives
to people who may one day fill his shoes. I
don't like his posture on reparations. I don't think that
we did the right thing on healthcare. I don't think
we went far enough if we broke or deals with
insurance companies that are now stabbing the American people in
the back on healthcare so that they can still make
(07:50):
handover fist and premiums arising because the Republicans are deciding
that greed is far more important than the livelihood of
the American people, our ability to survive. So what I
think was shortsighted about that administration is just how greedy
people can be on a bipartisan and nonpartisan level. And
(08:13):
I think that there were places where progressivism was was
denied so that they could so that they could yeah
sidelined is a better word, so that they could be
deemed as acceptable. And still he wasn't accepted right. So
it's like, at what cost If you're going to have
(08:35):
this super majority and this opportunity to do something with
people who think like you, why not do it? And
then here's the thing that I also know, working on
the hill at that time, he really didn't have everyone
because he had a majority in the House and in
the Senate.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
He had that in word, but not indeed right.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
And we saw that even with the healthcare fallout, members
of Congress who voted with him and then lost their seats.
Even if he had those members or people who were
willing to risk it, all their constituents weren't.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
And I think that is also important to note.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
And I think it didn't take long for us to
see just how much this country would turn.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
I want you all to remember, this is my last point.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
The Voting Rights Act since its inception, had always been
a bipartisan vote, an overwhelming bipartisan vote since nineteen sixty five.
The moment the tide changed on that is after Barack
Obama's election. So this country felt like it threw us
a bone, only to take it back and to do
(09:43):
it in such a way that it was damn near violent.
And I think that is the piece that we also
have to wrestle with. They thought they were giving us something,
not that they were receiving something from someone who was
one of ours.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
And I think that is so treacherous.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
And when you look at how far we come, whether
we talk about the dismantling of affirmative action, of course,
voting rights, or elements of the Civil Rights Act or EEOC,
the Department of Education, all the things that were stood
up to ensure that we would be protected. They're even
taking ruby bridges off of a coin in the two
hundred and fiftieth anniversary of this damn country. Right, These
(10:19):
are the things that we have to wrestle with the why.
And I still think because of that reason, whether it
was just the symbolic election of Barack Obama, which again
I think it was much more than a symbol, I
think that would have been sufficient.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Andrew, I appreciate both your points. I do think he should.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
She gonna selected Merrick Garland, though, Okay, keep.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
Going, well, I would double downtap whatever that is, because
big mistake in my opinion. But that wasn't the only
big mistake. I think there were a lot of big mistakes.
I talked sometimes about negotiating against ourselves. I think there
was a lot of negotiating against what was possible for,
(10:59):
you know, sort of plausible options. But you know what
is we reflect on a lot of presidencies. I think
that can also be said. I don't want to single
the Obama presidency out for that. I do think it
was a sim certainly a symbolic presidency, but not transformational.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
And I disagree, but go ahead.
Speaker 7 (11:22):
Symbolism of it was is not to be undermined. It's
not to be reduced the symbolism of it what it meant.
And I have to tell you this, and I don't
know if this is controversial or not, but I actually
appreciated the symbolism of Michelle Obama as first Lady more
than I probably appreciated the symbolism of Barack Obama as
(11:44):
as as president. I think Michelle Obama's presidence there unleashed
something I think far more lasting in black women in
our community and black boys, black men too. And again
we could we could probably debate the ins and outs
of it. But but even today this moment, I feel
(12:06):
her presence more lasting as first as as first Lady,
and what she meant for the country despite all of
the bulletin arrows that she had to take and intercept
throughout the campaign and also through throughout the governing. When
I think about the transformational part of it and what
(12:28):
was possible the sixty one votes in the US Senate
and the and the overwhelming Democratic majorities in the House. Remember,
we didn't get healthcare in those numbers. We had healthcare
after we fell below that sixty and after we lost
some seats even in the House. It was the death
(12:50):
of Kennedy that took us to fifty nine and all
the dramatics that happened around that because the President had
set up to this point that we would only pass
healthcare with a sixty plus and a bipartisan way, with
a sixty plus majority in the US Senate. And that's
when Nancy came in and said, you said sixty, I
(13:13):
say fifty one, and then began all the negotiations and
antits that got us to the version of healthcare that
we ultimately got. But before we even got to a
bill on paper, there were huge negotiations that didn't include
the American people that took away all the possibilities before
we got to what was possible. And that's really one
(13:34):
of the things that really sticks in my crawl about
the transformational or the lack of the transformational at that time.
And it wasn't just that there were lots of policy pieces,
not to mention the appointments pieces. I still maintain that
had Barack Obama nominated a black woman to the Supreme
Court as his last last and that last final year,
(13:54):
that we would have had a we would have had
a black woman on the US Supreme Court. The fact
that Mayor Garland could not muster even the support of
white men moderates to be part of the base of
of his of his appointment, and nobody else in the
country happened to be excited about him.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
There was no rallying cry for his appointment.
Speaker 7 (14:18):
We would never have allowed, I think the Republicans, nor
do I believe they would have had the audacity to
steal a black woman seat on the Supreme Court quite
the way they did a white man, a moderate white man, with.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Very little support quite frankly from the country.
Speaker 7 (14:34):
These are obviously, what do you call it, backseat quarterback
observations are making we couldn't. Nobody could have known these
things in the moment. Even though I felt very strongly
about a black woman appointment appointed and that last appointment,
I wouldn't change the election of Barack Obama.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I think its symbolism was important, but mostly the coupled
symbolism I think was important. But the transformation, the losing
of seven hundred plus legislative seats around the country that
threw us into a ridiculous redistricting process where we lost
a far more than what I think we could have
and should have gained. There are just a lot of
(15:13):
clawbacks that.
Speaker 7 (15:15):
Came with that, that came with that moment of history
that I sometimes wonder if it was worth it from
a political policy standpoint, And I probably will come down
on the side that from political policy, probably not from
a symbolic perspective, probably, so I'm split on it. But
(15:37):
nonetheless I'm I'm very much so proud that that Barack
Obama was able to break that ceiling, and hopefully the
next opportunity that we have will take us, you know,
twice as far, you know as his.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
You know.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
The one thing that I hope we get from this
as a people, though, is that even when we elect
a leader who looks like us and things like us
in many ways, we still have an obligation to make demands,
to have requirements, and to make our requests known.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
We took such an approach. I mean, like.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Literally, I got half hate mail from racist at the
Congressional Black Caucus and half hate mail from black people.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Don't you say nothing about the president? The saving Sea
should not be challenging Barack Obama. Y'all had that conversation quietly.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
It's like their role is actually to push policy that
isn't the best interests of their constituents.
Speaker 7 (16:39):
And we have this on that show Angela early on,
and anytime we would have a critique, it was like,
we don't need to do that, but I think we
definitely need to do it.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Out Like, I think that the critique is fair. I
think the critique, though, as you said, is a lot
in hindsight, because I think that you I think that
if you look at Barack Obama's presidency, like repealing Don't Ask,
Don't Tell, Lily led Better, Wall Street Reform, right, if
you look at the Affordable Care Act, I mean, the
list kind of goes on and on and on with
(17:08):
some of the things. I mean, he saved he saved Michigan,
like he said, he saved the auto industry. Those things
are real policy changes. Now the question is now, what
what what if you somebody, somebody's gonna be in the comments,
what did he do for black folk? Right? So, I
hear you, and I do think that Mary Garland was
a horrible choice. I don't think Mitch mcconnall was going
to give us a seat, but I do wish that
(17:28):
he would have gone out with a p y oh
to help Tillory tremendously. So, but I get all those things.
I think that I think that we judge Barack Obama
through the lens of Donald Trump in two ways. The
first is Donald Trump. With this president, she has shown
you what is possible. He has shown you that there
(17:51):
that anything the president wants to do, he can do it.
Presidential presidential power largely goes unchecked. The president is willing
to break those things. That's first. And on the flip
side of it, I use Barack Obama as a symbol
all the time he was editor in chief of the
Law Review. He had to be, you know, the top
(18:12):
tenth of one percent in order to be elected president
of the United States, And I wouldn't hire Donald Trump
to run a McDonald's right. And so I just think
that there are a few lenses that we look at
Barack Obama through, through the lens of Donald Trump. And
I also think that if Hillary Clinton would have gotten
(18:33):
elected like she should have gotten elected, then Barack Obama's
legacy is probably shiny er because some of those things
that we're talking about would have been strengthened, preserved, et cetera.
YadA YadA YadA. So life is funny, man, and politics
is funny. But I am I'm proud of Barry. Barry
could have done more. I'm more proud of Celli. Oh
and those things. They raised an amazing family in the
(18:56):
White House under the glare of all those.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Things, with their mama. And here move moved her mama
right on.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
In there, missus, miss Robinson, may may she rest in power.
Speaker 7 (19:05):
Well, I wouldn't hire Donald Trump to run an errand.
But the truth is is Barack Obama probably you know,
he really did initiate the ex not initiate because the presidents,
all presidents try to expand power, but he expanded presidential
power while he was president.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I mean, you don't remember much of the ex Everyone, every.
Speaker 7 (19:28):
Every one of them has sought to expand the power
of the office. Those drone strikes that were very contentious
during the time, mostly on the left.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
A lot of the folks on the.
Speaker 6 (19:39):
Left were highly critical of of Quite frankly, while Donald
Trump may be doing it with soldiers, Barack was doing
it with you know, with flights and drones to.
Speaker 7 (19:51):
Take out UH leaders. We also including Latin Well, not that.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
I was I want to mention that in my list
of accomplishments, I was going to say that he probably
had one of the greatest foreign foreign policy accomplishments with
the killing of Osama bin Laden, that any president's had
in recent history.
Speaker 7 (20:11):
He also deported more people than any president in the
collection up to that point. I'm not citing that. I'm
not citing that as a negative or positive. I'm simply
saying at during his presidency heat well, it isn't.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I just wasn't making the point for that reason.
Speaker 7 (20:30):
I was making the point to say that he didn't
often wait on an invitation or license for certain things.
He also showed hubris in the offices as well, and
I think in some ways his lived experience probably not
being a black man from the traditional South unleashed his
license in ways that I think would have constrained a
(20:52):
traditional African American from the traditional geopolitical South serving an
in office. I think his lived experience, how he now
that is.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Now that's a fact. I mean, you know, you know,
being yeah, no, no, no, no, no, that's a whole hearted fact.
Not going to an HBCU. Being raised in the way
that he was raised in Kansas, in Hawaii, not not
the traditional South. You know, all of those things are true.
I do think though he had more formidable foes and allies.
(21:26):
For the best example I can give you is that
I don't think anybody would say that Chuck Schumer is
nearly as formidable a foe as Mitch McConnell was when
he was absolutely not.
Speaker 7 (21:37):
Is he a friend?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Does Harry Reid?
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Nor is? And I'm going to say that you, I mean,
the constraints that that that Barack Obama had were their
names were Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell. I mean, that's
just that, that is, and those were more formidable figures
than we have today. I'll wrap up my comments on
this just just this week Mike, I mean, Mark Kelly
said that we no longer have three branches of government.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
John Bayner too.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
That's true, formidable, But but Mark Kelly said, we no
longer have three branches of government because the House of
Representatives and Republicans succeeded their power. Barack Obama at least
operated under three co equal branches of government, which can But.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
The Supreme Court is also helping these three co equal
branches of government disappear.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
And that's the thing I was going to bring up.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
We're talking about him utilizing or over utilizing presidential power.
He tried to make a recess appointment to the Labor
Relations Board that the Supreme Court at the time said
he could not do constitutionally. This Supreme Court is telling
Donald Trump forget the constitution. You know.
Speaker 7 (22:42):
Yeah, I mean, but but guess what we can trace
back the makeup of the Supreme Court decisions made administration.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Well they weren't they weren't his decision though, And this
way the people get old. But no, no, no, no, no,
ruthber Ruth Bader Ginsburg was a problem. And people on
the left do not like me to say that out loud.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
No, I mean, everybody retired.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Anybody knows that.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
And I got a picture with her.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Forms the pressure brought to bear.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I gotta go, I gotta go get some ice cream.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
You bought this up.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I brought it up because it was a good topic.
I want you to It's still.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
A good topic. But we don't all agree.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And it's nuanced, right, it's very nuanced. And and no.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
We're not afraid to criticize a black man, which you
should be able to do. And you should be able
to hold people accountable who we vote for and challenge.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yes, that's what love looks like. And how you're gonna
get better if we don't do that.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Well, my kids have nut egg and shell fish allergy.
So I'm going to pick up Happy Happy Birthday, SAYI stokely.
I'm going to pick up a ice cream cake to
celebrate their life. I would be nothing without them. Although
I love Angela and Andrew, Angela more than Andrew slightly.
Uh but but shout out to everyone. Thank you for
joining the Native Lamp Pod, thank you for joining U
(24:03):
Mini Pod, and Welcome.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Home, Go Home, Welcome Home.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Native Lamp Pod is a production of iHeart Radio and
partnership with Resent Choice Media for more podcasts from iHeart Radio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Native Lamb Pod is a production of our Heart Radio
in partnership with Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
And welcome to our mini pod. Welcome home, y'all. This
is always an amazing Native Land production here where we
get an opportunity to just sell the complimentary Yeah. No,
we get an opportunity to that was that was us
self complimented? Yes, And while we are grieving missing our
homegirl Tiffany Cross on this show, we do have for
(00:30):
the first time the three of us joining together for
this mini pod. And we got an interesting question that
was asked and I actually, uh, this was this was
my idea if y'all can't tell, but I want to
pose it to the larger group. Can we browe that
question real quick? And then I want to think about it.
I want to I want Andrew to start with this.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
No, why why a G Because I talked too much?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
I wait, No, I don't do that.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
No, you just covered the whole pod, so rude.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
Hello Native Land Pod. My name is Paula Chandler. I
am sixty two years old and a native of Washingtonian
and I have been with you guys from day one.
My question to the group is, and it's kind of
(01:17):
a hypothetical but maybe more of a discussion point for
maybe a mini pod. But there was a bio series
on Showtime a couple of years ago that featured three
First Ladies, Michelle Obama, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Betty Ford. And
there was one scene where Michelle Obama, they and Barack
(01:40):
were transitioning out of the White House. Trump had been
voted in in twenty sixteen, and Michelle Obama played Viola
Davis asked the question do they hate us that much
to vote this kind of person into office? I'm pair
for raising, but that's what the gist of it was.
(02:05):
And my question to the group is what would this
country look like if Barack Obama was never president?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Miss Paula, thank you for your thank you for your question,
thank you for the death.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Wait can I ask a question, Macaary, Is this the
same show? I never watched the show, but is this
the same show? Where Viola Davis looks at who is supposed.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
To be Barack Obama said, because you are nic is
it that show?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
She made some very strange facial expressions throughout the.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
We need can we run next?
Speaker 6 (02:47):
No?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
No, controversial, David.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
She knows I love her, but.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
She played that part hard. It was hard.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
This is the this is y'all are miss see. This
is why I don't This why I'm not the lead.
This is this is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
You have the floor, yep.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
So I thought the question. Paula. Shout out to you.
You look amazing to be fifty years young. Ain't no
way you sixty two. I know all that whispering you
doing at you at your desk right there. We love
it them frames. You've been drinking your water in minding
your business. It's a great question about what happens. Have
y'all ever thought about that if Barack Obama was an
(03:26):
elected president?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I have you well, let's hear it. I want to
you were supposed to.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Haven't know.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I haven't given a lot of consideration to us.
Speaker 7 (03:33):
I like it.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
H I mean, I may go ahead, Angela, so go
ahead tell me what you think.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I feel like I talked a lot in the last show,
So please have your floor.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
You actually didn't. You didn't talk enough.
Speaker 6 (03:45):
But you didn't.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
You didn't talk enough.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
But like, but I'll have the floor.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah, I'm gonna take it. But you but you definitely.
Your voice is definitely so controversial.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
So you go, I'll be sandwiched between the two diplomats.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Well, I just think that they're too things that there
are two things that I would say about Barack Obama
if he was not elected president. The first is that
there is a picture that I remember from Jacob Philadelphia.
Y'all may or may not remember Jacob Philadelphia, but at
the time he was four years old, he was in
the White House, his parents had just gotten decommissioned, and
he got an opportunity to ask the president one question,
and he said, does your hair feel like mine? And
(04:19):
the shade God as we call him, Pete SUSA, captured
that image of Barack Obama leaning over and letting Jacob
Philadelphia shout out to Jacob. I think he just graduated
college or is in college now, which to make you
feel old. But I just think that Barack Obama's presidency
meant so much to an entire generation of young black
and brown children that they could grow up and be
(04:41):
anything in the world. There was so much hope just
about we're not talking about his accomplishments, we're not talking
about the criticisms we have, We're not talking about him
using drones. We're not talking about you know, the Affordable
Care Act, of successes, all of those things. But what
we are talking about is just what he meant in
terms of hope for black people, and I think that
they're there is a lot to say that a black
(05:01):
man can be president. That's first. Second. I am really
really pleased at my father and all the work of
our parents, Eddie Rott, and just the heroes and heroines
we know, who bled, who got shot, many of which
who died, who you know, paid the ultimate what Abraham
Lincoln called the last measure of devotion, so that we
(05:21):
could make you know, some similance of progress in this country.
I'm glad they got an opportunity to see, you know,
a black man get elected in this country. I'm glad
they got an opportunity to see that. So I think
the hope and the reward, although you know, you know,
we've taken multiple steps back, I think I think that
(05:43):
means a lot. So that's why those those are the
those are the kind of points I would make if
he didn't get elected. And I don't know what the
country looks like without him, but I do know that
he made a great deal of progress, not as much
as we would have wanted. And I just think think
about about going from George W. Bush to Donald Trump.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, I I go back and forth about this so much,
and not about whether or not he should have been president,
because I know how much it meant to me that
we had Barack Obama as our president. What I will
say is it felt divine. It felt like he was
called when all the odds were against him, there was
(06:26):
still a path created. I remember, you know, crying and
begging my congressional boss at the time to endorse him.
There was a split in the Congressional Black Caucus where
you know after it. I wasn't the CBC executive director yet,
but when I became the ED, I learned that Barack
Obama was hardly active and that a lot of them
(06:47):
felt like he wasn't very respectful and definitely wasn't deferential
to them, and that was hard. And then having sat
in meetings with him and the CBC, it was difficult
to watch his behavior, including him doodling the entire time
in a meeting. I walked over to make sure that's
what he was doing. I went to go look at
the notepad after he was doodling the entire time the
members of Congress were talking. And yet when you look
(07:11):
at who replaced him, you can't help but to understand
just how presidential he was, and just how much he
earned that position, and just how much he was overqualified
when you consider the competition.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I don't agree with every decision he made.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I don't agree with the advice that he currently gives
to people who may one day fill his shoes. I
don't like his posture on reparations. I don't think that
we did the right thing on healthcare. I don't think
we went far enough if we broke or deals with
insurance companies that are now stabbing the American people in
the back on healthcare so that they can still make
(07:50):
handover fist and premiums arising because the Republicans are deciding
that greed is far more important than the livelihood of
the American people, our ability to survive. So what I
think was shortsighted about that administration is just how greedy
people can be on a bipartisan and nonpartisan level. And
(08:13):
I think that there were places where progressivism was was
denied so that they could so that they could yeah
sidelined is a better word, so that they could be
deemed as acceptable. And still he wasn't accepted right. So
it's like, at what cost If you're going to have
(08:35):
this super majority and this opportunity to do something with
people who think like you, why not do it? And
then here's the thing that I also know, working on
the hill at that time, he really didn't have everyone
because he had a majority in the House and in
the Senate.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
He had that in word, but not indeed right.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
And we saw that even with the healthcare fallout, members
of Congress who voted with him and then lost their seats.
Even if he had those members or people who were
willing to risk it, all their constituents weren't.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
And I think that is also important to note.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
And I think it didn't take long for us to
see just how much this country would turn.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
I want you all to remember, this is my last point.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
The Voting Rights Act since its inception, had always been
a bipartisan vote, an overwhelming bipartisan vote since nineteen sixty five.
The moment the tide changed on that is after Barack
Obama's election. So this country felt like it threw us
a bone, only to take it back and to do
(09:43):
it in such a way that it was damn near violent.
And I think that is the piece that we also
have to wrestle with. They thought they were giving us something,
not that they were receiving something from someone who was
one of ours.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
And I think that is so treacherous.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
And when you look at how far we come, whether
we talk about the dismantling of affirmative action, of course,
voting rights, or elements of the Civil Rights Act or EEOC,
the Department of Education, all the things that were stood
up to ensure that we would be protected. They're even
taking ruby bridges off of a coin in the two
hundred and fiftieth anniversary of this damn country. Right, These
(10:19):
are the things that we have to wrestle with the why.
And I still think because of that reason, whether it
was just the symbolic election of Barack Obama, which again
I think it was much more than a symbol, I
think that would have been sufficient.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Andrew, I appreciate both your points. I do think he should.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
She gonna selected Merrick Garland, though, Okay, keep.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
Going, well, I would double downtap whatever that is, because
big mistake in my opinion. But that wasn't the only
big mistake. I think there were a lot of big mistakes.
I talked sometimes about negotiating against ourselves. I think there
was a lot of negotiating against what was possible for,
(10:59):
you know, sort of plausible options. But you know what
is we reflect on a lot of presidencies. I think
that can also be said. I don't want to single
the Obama presidency out for that. I do think it
was a sim certainly a symbolic presidency, but not transformational.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
And I disagree, but go ahead.
Speaker 7 (11:22):
Symbolism of it was is not to be undermined. It's
not to be reduced the symbolism of it what it meant.
And I have to tell you this, and I don't
know if this is controversial or not, but I actually
appreciated the symbolism of Michelle Obama as first Lady more
than I probably appreciated the symbolism of Barack Obama as
(11:44):
as as president. I think Michelle Obama's presidence there unleashed
something I think far more lasting in black women in
our community and black boys, black men too. And again
we could we could probably debate the ins and outs
of it. But but even today this moment, I feel
(12:06):
her presence more lasting as first as as first Lady,
and what she meant for the country despite all of
the bulletin arrows that she had to take and intercept
throughout the campaign and also through throughout the governing. When
I think about the transformational part of it and what
(12:28):
was possible the sixty one votes in the US Senate
and the and the overwhelming Democratic majorities in the House. Remember,
we didn't get healthcare in those numbers. We had healthcare
after we fell below that sixty and after we lost
some seats even in the House. It was the death
(12:50):
of Kennedy that took us to fifty nine and all
the dramatics that happened around that because the President had
set up to this point that we would only pass
healthcare with a sixty plus and a bipartisan way, with
a sixty plus majority in the US Senate. And that's
when Nancy came in and said, you said sixty, I
(13:13):
say fifty one, and then began all the negotiations and
antits that got us to the version of healthcare that
we ultimately got. But before we even got to a
bill on paper, there were huge negotiations that didn't include
the American people that took away all the possibilities before
we got to what was possible. And that's really one
(13:34):
of the things that really sticks in my crawl about
the transformational or the lack of the transformational at that time.
And it wasn't just that there were lots of policy pieces,
not to mention the appointments pieces. I still maintain that
had Barack Obama nominated a black woman to the Supreme
Court as his last last and that last final year,
(13:54):
that we would have had a we would have had
a black woman on the US Supreme Court. The fact
that Mayor Garland could not muster even the support of
white men moderates to be part of the base of
of his of his appointment, and nobody else in the
country happened to be excited about him.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
There was no rallying cry for his appointment.
Speaker 7 (14:18):
We would never have allowed, I think the Republicans, nor
do I believe they would have had the audacity to
steal a black woman seat on the Supreme Court quite
the way they did a white man, a moderate white man, with.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Very little support quite frankly from the country.
Speaker 7 (14:34):
These are obviously, what do you call it, backseat quarterback
observations are making we couldn't. Nobody could have known these
things in the moment. Even though I felt very strongly
about a black woman appointment appointed and that last appointment,
I wouldn't change the election of Barack Obama.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I think its symbolism was important, but mostly the coupled
symbolism I think was important. But the transformation, the losing
of seven hundred plus legislative seats around the country that
threw us into a ridiculous redistricting process where we lost
a far more than what I think we could have
and should have gained. There are just a lot of
(15:13):
clawbacks that.
Speaker 7 (15:15):
Came with that, that came with that moment of history
that I sometimes wonder if it was worth it from
a political policy standpoint, And I probably will come down
on the side that from political policy, probably not from
a symbolic perspective, probably, so I'm split on it. But
(15:37):
nonetheless I'm I'm very much so proud that that Barack
Obama was able to break that ceiling, and hopefully the
next opportunity that we have will take us, you know,
twice as far, you know as his.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
You know.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
The one thing that I hope we get from this
as a people, though, is that even when we elect
a leader who looks like us and things like us
in many ways, we still have an obligation to make demands,
to have requirements, and to make our requests known.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
We took such an approach. I mean, like.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Literally, I got half hate mail from racist at the
Congressional Black Caucus and half hate mail from black people.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Don't you say nothing about the president? The saving Sea
should not be challenging Barack Obama. Y'all had that conversation quietly.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
It's like their role is actually to push policy that
isn't the best interests of their constituents.
Speaker 7 (16:39):
And we have this on that show Angela early on,
and anytime we would have a critique, it was like,
we don't need to do that, but I think we
definitely need to do it.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Out Like, I think that the critique is fair. I
think the critique, though, as you said, is a lot
in hindsight, because I think that you I think that
if you look at Barack Obama's presidency, like repealing Don't Ask,
Don't Tell, Lily led Better, Wall Street Reform, right, if
you look at the Affordable Care Act, I mean, the
list kind of goes on and on and on with
(17:08):
some of the things. I mean, he saved he saved Michigan,
like he said, he saved the auto industry. Those things
are real policy changes. Now the question is now, what
what what if you somebody, somebody's gonna be in the comments,
what did he do for black folk? Right? So, I
hear you, and I do think that Mary Garland was
a horrible choice. I don't think Mitch mcconnall was going
to give us a seat, but I do wish that
(17:28):
he would have gone out with a p y oh
to help Tillory tremendously. So, but I get all those things.
I think that I think that we judge Barack Obama
through the lens of Donald Trump in two ways. The
first is Donald Trump. With this president, she has shown
you what is possible. He has shown you that there
(17:51):
that anything the president wants to do, he can do it.
Presidential presidential power largely goes unchecked. The president is willing
to break those things. That's first. And on the flip
side of it, I use Barack Obama as a symbol
all the time he was editor in chief of the
Law Review. He had to be, you know, the top
(18:12):
tenth of one percent in order to be elected president
of the United States, And I wouldn't hire Donald Trump
to run a McDonald's right. And so I just think
that there are a few lenses that we look at
Barack Obama through, through the lens of Donald Trump. And
I also think that if Hillary Clinton would have gotten
(18:33):
elected like she should have gotten elected, then Barack Obama's
legacy is probably shiny er because some of those things
that we're talking about would have been strengthened, preserved, et cetera.
YadA YadA YadA. So life is funny, man, and politics
is funny. But I am I'm proud of Barry. Barry
could have done more. I'm more proud of Celli. Oh
and those things. They raised an amazing family in the
(18:56):
White House under the glare of all those.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Things, with their mama. And here move moved her mama
right on.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
In there, missus, miss Robinson, may may she rest in power.
Speaker 7 (19:05):
Well, I wouldn't hire Donald Trump to run an errand.
But the truth is is Barack Obama probably you know,
he really did initiate the ex not initiate because the presidents,
all presidents try to expand power, but he expanded presidential
power while he was president.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I mean, you don't remember much of the ex Everyone, every.
Speaker 7 (19:28):
Every one of them has sought to expand the power
of the office. Those drone strikes that were very contentious
during the time, mostly on the left.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
A lot of the folks on the.
Speaker 6 (19:39):
Left were highly critical of of Quite frankly, while Donald
Trump may be doing it with soldiers, Barack was doing
it with you know, with flights and drones to.
Speaker 7 (19:51):
Take out UH leaders. We also including Latin Well, not that.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
I was I want to mention that in my list
of accomplishments, I was going to say that he probably
had one of the greatest foreign foreign policy accomplishments with
the killing of Osama bin Laden, that any president's had
in recent history.
Speaker 7 (20:11):
He also deported more people than any president in the
collection up to that point. I'm not citing that. I'm
not citing that as a negative or positive. I'm simply
saying at during his presidency heat well, it isn't.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I just wasn't making the point for that reason.
Speaker 7 (20:30):
I was making the point to say that he didn't
often wait on an invitation or license for certain things.
He also showed hubris in the offices as well, and
I think in some ways his lived experience probably not
being a black man from the traditional South unleashed his
license in ways that I think would have constrained a
(20:52):
traditional African American from the traditional geopolitical South serving an
in office. I think his lived experience, how he now
that is.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Now that's a fact. I mean, you know, you know,
being yeah, no, no, no, no, no, that's a whole hearted fact.
Not going to an HBCU. Being raised in the way
that he was raised in Kansas, in Hawaii, not not
the traditional South. You know, all of those things are true.
I do think though he had more formidable foes and allies.
(21:26):
For the best example I can give you is that
I don't think anybody would say that Chuck Schumer is
nearly as formidable a foe as Mitch McConnell was when
he was absolutely not.
Speaker 7 (21:37):
Is he a friend?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Does Harry Reid?
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Nor is? And I'm going to say that you, I mean,
the constraints that that that Barack Obama had were their
names were Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell. I mean, that's
just that, that is, and those were more formidable figures
than we have today. I'll wrap up my comments on
this just just this week Mike, I mean, Mark Kelly
said that we no longer have three branches of government.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
John Bayner too.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
That's true, formidable, But but Mark Kelly said, we no
longer have three branches of government because the House of
Representatives and Republicans succeeded their power. Barack Obama at least
operated under three co equal branches of government, which can But.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
The Supreme Court is also helping these three co equal
branches of government disappear.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
And that's the thing I was going to bring up.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
We're talking about him utilizing or over utilizing presidential power.
He tried to make a recess appointment to the Labor
Relations Board that the Supreme Court at the time said
he could not do constitutionally. This Supreme Court is telling
Donald Trump forget the constitution. You know.
Speaker 7 (22:42):
Yeah, I mean, but but guess what we can trace
back the makeup of the Supreme Court decisions made administration.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Well they weren't they weren't his decision though, And this
way the people get old. But no, no, no, no, no,
ruthber Ruth Bader Ginsburg was a problem. And people on
the left do not like me to say that out loud.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
No, I mean, everybody retired.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Anybody knows that.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
And I got a picture with her.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Forms the pressure brought to bear.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I gotta go, I gotta go get some ice cream.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
You bought this up.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I brought it up because it was a good topic.
I want you to It's still.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
A good topic. But we don't all agree.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And it's nuanced, right, it's very nuanced. And and no.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
We're not afraid to criticize a black man, which you
should be able to do. And you should be able
to hold people accountable who we vote for and challenge.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yes, that's what love looks like. And how you're gonna
get better if we don't do that.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Well, my kids have nut egg and shell fish allergy.
So I'm going to pick up Happy Happy Birthday, SAYI stokely.
I'm going to pick up a ice cream cake to
celebrate their life. I would be nothing without them. Although
I love Angela and Andrew, Angela more than Andrew slightly.
Uh but but shout out to everyone. Thank you for
joining the Native Lamp Pod, thank you for joining U
(24:03):
Mini Pod, and Welcome.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Home, Go Home, Welcome Home.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Native Lamp Pod is a production of iHeart Radio and
partnership with Resent Choice Media for more podcasts from iHeart Radio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen
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Hosts And Creators
Tiffany Cross
Andrew Gillum
Angela Rye
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