Cat Popper

Norah sits down with one-of-a-kind singer, songwriter, and truly accomplished bass-player, Cat Popper. She’s toured with Ryan Adams, Grace Potter, Jack White and many more. She’s also a member of Puss N Boots, along with Norah and Sasha Dobson. Though you may have heard her bass stylings on several artists’ records, today you’ll get to tune in for live stripped down versions of Cat’s fabulous original songs and a striking Pere Ubu cover from the 80’s. Recorded 4/12/23.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, I'm Norah Jones, and today I'm playing along with
Cat Popper.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm just playing lo wey, I'm just playing in.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Hell with you.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hey, welcome to the show. I'm Norah Jones. With me
as always is Sarah Oda. Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello. We
have a fun fun guest today.

Speaker 4 (00:25):
Yes, we do. Our guest today is another one of
our sisters.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yes, badass bass player, not literal sister, but chosen sister.

Speaker 4 (00:34):
Chosen sister, Maulti instrumentalist, singer, songwriter. Oh, I was gonna say,
T shirt designer.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Oh, bass player, extraordinaire T shirt designer.

Speaker 4 (00:45):
She's played with everyone from Ryan Adams to Grace Potter
to Jack White to Jesse Mallin. Yes to Nora Jones.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Oh, yes, she has played with me.

Speaker 4 (00:53):
She's one third of the Alt country power Supergirl group.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Is that what you call it?

Speaker 4 (00:58):
A supergirl group? Felt right?

Speaker 1 (01:04):
We're a superwoman group. And and we've known Cat forever.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yes, yeah, long time. She's one of the funniest people
we know.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
I highly recommend you follow her on Instagram.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
Cat Underscore Popper.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
At Instagram dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
That's not how it works.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
It's just sick Cat.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
At Cat Underscore popper. Yeah, do it follow her. She's
also designing these really cool T shirts right now. Is
she selling them yet?

Speaker 4 (01:36):
Not yet. Hopefully she will be there, but they're going
to sell out, so you better just get in line now.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
I want all of them.

Speaker 4 (01:44):
Her stage banter is pretty much unbeat, unbeat unbeat unbeat.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
Oh yeah, her stage banter, Sorry, that's not correct, that's
not grammatically correct, unbeatable.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
Her stage banter is unbeatable.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
That just sounded corny the weast oh more time.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
Her stage banter is a Okay, I.

Speaker 5 (02:06):
Thought that's what you were saying.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
You do it, No, you do.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
It this time.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
Her stage banter is unbeatable.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yes, definitely, she's funny, but she's also got like a.

Speaker 4 (02:20):
Very sensitive sweet side that comes out in her music
and that she tapped into with the release of her
first and second singles as Cat Popper, titled Maybe It's
all Right Yeah and Breath.

Speaker 6 (02:33):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
They're beautiful and it's really lovely to see someone who's
been a coveted side person for so many years. I mean,
people love Cat from her being in all these different
bands as the bass player. It's really nice to see
her step out and sing and writing songs. Yeah, you're
gonna love it. I hope you enjoy. We had a

(02:54):
lot of fun. And here's the episode. Here she comes, here,
she comes, cat Popper, Hi, Hi.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
You lost.

Speaker 7 (03:28):
A glass, but it's okay, it was broken.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Just mine.

Speaker 8 (03:41):
The mass.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
In the pie says so good with words, but the
numbers bay bite black birds.

Speaker 9 (04:10):
At your fingers, the says.

Speaker 10 (04:20):
Can rosa, don't look.

Speaker 11 (04:28):
Dun It is so already gone, it's already broken.

Speaker 12 (04:45):
Fast me, I got a lucky street.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
The wind find a way to be still.

Speaker 7 (05:14):
Somehowly ways, and the roof tips.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Remain just shine.

Speaker 13 (05:35):
Lie in the place saves.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Where you wonder.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
It's all right.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
For the real thing.

Speaker 13 (05:54):
To be wrong.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Woman lie you boths like.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
Long said song.

Speaker 14 (06:12):
It's a already gone sorready broken.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
Fall.

Speaker 4 (06:27):
Me I.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Got a lucky street.

Speaker 15 (06:39):
Ooh ooh, you lost a glass.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
In the number.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
That's so pretty, so fucking pretty. God. I love this song.

Speaker 5 (07:25):
I love how you play guitar on this song.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
I haven't really played a lot of guitar recently.

Speaker 5 (07:30):
It's just and it was a different fingerpicking powder and
I'm just kind of amazed that you can just fingerpick
on the guitar.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
I feel like it's a fake finger pick, you know
what I mean. But it's a little bit of.

Speaker 5 (07:41):
A A lot of people are probably faking.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, and that's true.

Speaker 5 (07:44):
It's awesome.

Speaker 6 (07:46):
Can you finger pick? It's hard.

Speaker 5 (07:47):
I'm learning and it's a disaster.

Speaker 6 (07:49):
Yeah, fucking ship chip.

Speaker 5 (07:51):
I can cuss. You can cuss, Okay, it's it's a fucking.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Try not to poop show, you know what, trying not
to cuss.

Speaker 5 (07:57):
Okay, it's a it's a farting yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
I love this song and I love playing guitar, and
it's like playing this kind of guitar feels natural, this
tempo and like the strummy thing, the fingerpicking thing I
can do in like maybe three different chords that way.

Speaker 6 (08:17):
And then that's about it, you know.

Speaker 5 (08:19):
But apparently it's all you need.

Speaker 6 (08:20):
Yeah, you just need like that little country corner.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Right, country corner? Isn't that what they call it?

Speaker 3 (08:26):
You know?

Speaker 1 (08:26):
In the I don't know down south, the country corner,
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (08:30):
I'm from Charlotte, so I'm not really as country as
I sound.

Speaker 6 (08:33):
You're pretty country, I know you.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
I know you girl.

Speaker 5 (08:36):
My granddaddy used to say, don't forget she's a hell billy. Oh,
I don't know. I'm gonna live in New York.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
You've been in New York? How long?

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Thirty years?

Speaker 5 (08:45):
That's crazy, is that you two?

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Yeah, I've been here twenty three years.

Speaker 5 (08:50):
I've been here longer than you.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, I moved here in twenty twenty. Nineteen ninety nine.
Oh my god, we're in ninety nine.

Speaker 5 (08:57):
Wow, it was a good year.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Oh man, So this song, when did you write the song?
You wrote this for our second album or you wrote
it around that time?

Speaker 5 (09:07):
So well, so the so for the second Puss and
Boots album, you said we should have some originals, yeah,
and I thought, oh no, because it takes me a
year write.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
Well, you had a couple originals on the first Pussing
Boots album, which were great, Well.

Speaker 5 (09:22):
Thank you, but I just I had never really written.
And you guys told me you have to do things
you don't know how to do.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
Here this is like this, that's what the that's what
this is.

Speaker 5 (09:32):
That's what this is because.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Because when we started that band, me and Sasha were
just learning how to play the guitar and you were
already an accomplished bassist.

Speaker 5 (09:40):
Well, but when you guys asked me, you asked me
if I would play drums. And then right away I
think realized, well, somebody has to do what they're doing.
And then I was so happy that nobody seemed to
notice that I was playing bass. And one day, you
guys both turned around and looked at me, and you're like,
do you do something?

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Do something you don't know how to do.

Speaker 5 (10:00):
I would come in and I would say, but I
don't know how to do this, and you guys would
be like, that's not interesting that you need.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
To just say that you're going to use those words no.

Speaker 5 (10:08):
But you guys just didn't care that I would balk,
or that I would say I'm nervous.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
You would say, yeah, we wouldn't take it no, and
it'd be like, who cares, We're all nervous.

Speaker 5 (10:17):
It was the craziest, real, craziest.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, was that the first time you've ever experienced that? Yes,
that's so funny.

Speaker 5 (10:23):
Because I was so insecure my whole life, and you know,
growing being a woman in these bands, and a lot
of it was my own insecurity and I in adulthood. Now,
I know everybody was insecure, but I thought I was
the only one who was insecure. No, everybody is everybody's insecure.

Speaker 6 (10:41):
Now we know.

Speaker 5 (10:42):
Now we know, and you don't know that until you're
you know, you have to tie your boobies around your waist.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Oh my god, you're the best. Yeah. I feel like
I don't even know where that came from for me.
I feel like maybe Sasha pushed me into that place
of I'll just book it to get the Fat Cat
and we'll learn how to play guitar. And this is
after my second album came out. So I just put

(11:12):
on a baseball cap and we went to the Fat
Cat and played while people were We didn't play.

Speaker 6 (11:16):
In the back room.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
We played in the front room where people were playing pool,
and nobody noticed me, and it was totally fine, and I.

Speaker 6 (11:25):
Kept like screwing up.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Sometimes we would just drop out in the beginning, but
then we would sing pretty harmonies and it was fine.
And then when you joined we started playing, Like where
did we start playing the rodeo bar?

Speaker 5 (11:37):
We did the Shaney Rays truck stop at the National Underground,
which is gone now, but I think we also did Rodeo.

Speaker 6 (11:44):
Bar and Rockwood a lot of rockwood, rockwood.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah, the living room was kind of already gone by then, right.

Speaker 5 (11:52):
I think so we might have done a couple living
room hits also. You know, I think it was good
to do the smaller places because we didn't necessarily want
to draw.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
No, we only played places where people would promise not
to like try to promote it.

Speaker 5 (12:06):
Yeah, we wanted to play for our friends and yeah,
you know it was it was what a great vibe.
There were people who would come to every Puss and
Boots show that were our friends.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, and then there there were slowly these like Puss
and Boots fans who who were just Puss and Boots people,
and we went under like a fake name every time.

Speaker 5 (12:26):
It was so great. It was like a yeah, we
were like a gum shoot the gum Shoot band.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
But so so you started pulling pulling in some covers
and singing first before you started doing originals with us, right, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (12:41):
And it's funny because you guys said, are there any
covers you want to do? And I came in with
my covers and said, well, these are probably like bad
covers and you're got cause that's like how I'm.

Speaker 6 (12:53):
Just You're just down, You're down on yourself.

Speaker 5 (12:55):
Well, and I've been realizing it lately, how much you
know they call Buddhism call it eyeing in mine how
much I denigrate myself and that people have to say, no, no, no,
you're I'm really working on it.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
But are you a Buddhist?

Speaker 5 (13:09):
No? Okay, but I cherry pick.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
I think that's the way to go.

Speaker 5 (13:15):
I'm too much of a hillbilly for Sanskrit. But no
like cherry picking these ideas of oh yeah, I you know,
even yesterday, I was doing it because I anyway, like
in our conversations where I just say I don't know
what I don't know what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
I think I do a lot of that too, And
I think it's just that some people are just more
prone to doing that. You're saying I'm sorry a lot,
you know, stuff like.

Speaker 5 (13:36):
That you don't though you don't and if you do, I.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Don't see you and Sasha, because I feel I feel
like ninety nine percent completely whole in myself around you guys.
So I don't feel like I have to do that.
Does that make sense? But I do feel like I
do that around I cherry pick the people I do
it around, or I don't even realize I'm doing it worse,

(14:00):
but I noticed that I do it around certain people
for sure.

Speaker 5 (14:05):
Yeah, that's interesting. And I do it around people that
I'm closer to people I'm not close. I just kind
of look cool and like I know what I'm doing.
You really like shitting myself on the inside.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
That's the opposite to me, I think, yeah.

Speaker 5 (14:18):
Because there's much more to lose if you guys are like,
we can't we can't play with her anymore. Yeah, she's
just trash. And then but if I'm playing with somebody
who doesn't know me, I can just be cool and collected,
you know.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
I mean, that's so crazy. I know, because you are
one of the most cool people. I feel like from
a distance, people who see you and know who you
are and know the bands you've been in and follow
you your clothes and your hair, you're just cool.

Speaker 5 (14:43):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
But I know the real you. Yeah, you're self conscious
as hell.

Speaker 5 (14:47):
It's like a cool shell with a neurotic NuGet coreget
a gooey center of neurosis.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
Oh my god. So what was the first song you
wrote for our band?

Speaker 6 (15:01):
It was called Was it Pines?

Speaker 5 (15:04):
I don't I don't really remember, but I did. I
think it was. It might have been Pines. And there
was this uh, you know, when I was a kid.
You know the cassio keyboards, Yeah, I had. Mine had
three sounds on it and one was Koto, which you know, I.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
Think it's like a muted kind of chiny thing.

Speaker 5 (15:23):
And I didn't know what it was, and so I
was like, wow, acoustic guitars are loud. So I just
played this really weird muted guitar thing and brought it in.
It was like, the song's probably terrible, but here's one,
and you guys were like, cool, let's play it. You
know what I mean. It's like, let's play its song.
And it's so it's just so funny, but it was.

(15:43):
It was it's it's a sad song.

Speaker 6 (15:45):
It's a sad song, but I loved it. And also this.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Song, oh my God, they buy it like birds at
your fingers. I've heard you and Sasha sang harmonies on
this song so many times while I'm playing guitar, and
I always thought the word was birds, like birds are
biting your fingers, but it's burrs.

Speaker 5 (16:05):
Yeah, it's a it's like a Southern thing burrs.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
No, I know what a bird is, I don't know,
but but like.

Speaker 5 (16:09):
It's a real Southern like uh, it's a real Southern
reference to So I don't think New York. I think
New Yorkers call it or like Yankees call something else.

Speaker 6 (16:19):
I don't know. I'm from Texas.

Speaker 5 (16:21):
Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, not that you would,
but I would.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Oh my god.

Speaker 6 (16:28):
I love your lyrics though, I mean you must read
a lot.

Speaker 5 (16:32):
Huh, we got well lyrics. I think that's why it
takes me so long as I write songs about specific things.
But I'm I'm private, like I'm really private. So then uh,
I have to undo all the writing to you know,
make it all simile and metaphor yea.

Speaker 6 (16:53):
So nobody can tell what's on your inner core.

Speaker 5 (16:55):
Yeah, I don't want to talk. I don't want everybody
to see my you know, neurotic inner nugad until like
you know, until they meet me, and then I'm like,
guess what, guys, I'm the worst. But anyway, so this, yeah,
this song is about you know.

Speaker 6 (17:08):
You don't have to tell me what it's about.

Speaker 5 (17:10):
Well you don't want it, She don't. You don't, she
doesn't want me to. We can edit this part out.
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 6 (17:16):
You can tell me what it's about.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
What's it about?

Speaker 5 (17:19):
It's just about a lot of my songs, you know,
about things that uh that we reject, that we don't want,
things that are painful, and how to how to experience
loss while trying to enjoy your life.

Speaker 6 (17:37):
That's so beautiful. Yeah, and that's not.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Too specific either, even a whole explanation that's so uh
applicable to every human I.

Speaker 5 (17:47):
Know, it's true. And that's the thing about getting older
that I've realized is that, you know, it's not about
getting better and rising up. It's about setting down stuff
you don't need for me. So I feel like, how
is it, you know, how can I experience the paradox
of feeling two things at once? Yeah, and meaning like
I'm having a real bad time and you know, and

(18:11):
and I I'm also enjoying my life somewhere because I
don't know, I've never had an entirely bad day from
beginning to end, and I really forget that, Yeah, you
forget it, Yeah, because there's you know, it's so easy
to get hung up on something that happened, but there's
always something good, there's yeah, And there's always it's so
easy to not notice, even on the worst day of

(18:31):
your life, that you know, this the sun was out,
or you know, somebody patted you on the shoulder, or
you had a rad sandwich or something. I love that.
That's so.

Speaker 6 (18:45):
You are a teacher here.

Speaker 5 (18:47):
Yeah, man, I'm wise as shit.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
You're wise as shit.

Speaker 5 (18:55):
Y'all taken notes?

Speaker 6 (18:59):
When did you become one?

Speaker 5 (19:01):
I don't know. I may have been and just been
really quiet about it, but I think you know, it's
it's really valuable to have really difficult things happen to
you and and then you know, navigate them in a
way so you you know, because everybody experiences that stuff differently.

(19:24):
But it's like, well, wait a minute, like I want
to I want to enjoy life. Yeah, something that I
really don't want happen, So yeah, how do want to
enjoy my life?

Speaker 1 (19:32):
There's that that thing where you know, I knew this
lady who used to sign her emails make it a
great day, and I was like, oh god, that's like
her tag. But wow, that's a really that's good advice.
It's actually up to you. Yeah, all the crap that
happens to you, you can't let it ruin your I
mean you can, but you got to make it for yourself,

(19:55):
make it a great day.

Speaker 6 (19:56):
Yeah, and make it great.

Speaker 5 (19:57):
I think to start to get there, you have to
have allow yourself to say I'm having a I'm having
a bad day, yeah, and not fight and just say
like this sucks. Like if I'm feeling sorry for myself,
I'm gonna feel sorry. Just lay down in it for
a little while and feel it and then you learn
how to like feel it and it'd be okay and
not like I'm not supposed to be afraid. I'm not

(20:18):
supposed to be have self pity or you know, resentment.
It's like, no, just lay down in it and feel
it and then you know what it feels like so
you can carry it in one.

Speaker 6 (20:25):
Hand instead of on your back.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (20:28):
Man, a lot of nuggets here.

Speaker 5 (20:31):
I know we should.

Speaker 6 (20:32):
Juicy, you should write a book.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Oh God, by the way, your book, I can just
imagine all your Instagram nuggets, Like every other page is
wise and every other page is one of your Instagram pictures,
which are the funniest things. Everybody.

Speaker 6 (20:49):
You have to check out Kat's Instagram pages.

Speaker 5 (20:52):
I wish I was selling something.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Well, you have a T shirt you need to sell
on right now? I sweatshirt, that's really cool. I want
that cannonball utterly. So you come from jazz like me
and sash right, yeah, I I how did you start
playing music?

Speaker 6 (21:10):
I don't even know.

Speaker 5 (21:11):
Well, I you know, I was born in Thailand. I'm
just kidding. That's messed up. When I was I don't
know ten, I used to play the piano in the house,
and so they sent me to piano lessons.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Okay, were you the only musical one or yes, you
had a piano in the house though that we had.

Speaker 5 (21:30):
A piano in the and I hated piano lessons. It
was like this woman with a it was like a
loud ticking clock and she had a giant dog. It
was the piano and I couldn't It was just bad vibes.
So I started playing violin when I was in fifth grade.
And then I saw Sting playing an upright bass.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Oh cool.

Speaker 5 (21:52):
I went to the teacher, you know, this was in
eighteen forty two, and she said, like, you can't. You
have to play the cello.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
And I was like, like, bass isn't for girls.

Speaker 5 (22:02):
Women don't play bass. She was she she wept actually,
she said your fingers are so great for cello, and
it was like she actually got teary eyed that I
wasn't going to play the cello. Oh wow, I want
to play the big one. So I started playing upright
when I was ten, and then I I.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
I was really young, right, you play upright? I mean,
did you have a baby one?

Speaker 5 (22:22):
I had like a three quarter size?

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Were you tall that yet? Because you're tall?

Speaker 5 (22:27):
Probably tall? And now I have a five eights So
there's still you know, there's still. But I went to
performing arts high school and studied class school.

Speaker 6 (22:35):
That's right. Yeah, oh wow.

Speaker 5 (22:38):
But I was going to like hardcore shows, like I
got my nose broken in a in a pit, you know,
and I would.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Go classical by day, hardcore of my night. That's kind
of you in a nutshete.

Speaker 5 (22:51):
And like I used to go to the Irish Contra
dances and bring my upright and they'd let me sit in.

Speaker 6 (22:56):
Oh my god.

Speaker 5 (22:57):
I just loved, you know, bluegrass I loved. So then
I decided I wanted to be an archaeologist because I
didn't want to be in an orchestra because it's just
not me. So I went to Chapel Hill for a
year and they had a jazz band. I started playing
jazz there.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
So you started in college the first year, the.

Speaker 5 (23:17):
First year of college. Okay, so they said, we'll give
you a scholarship if you play with an ensemble. And
I was like, dude, I want to study rocks and
go on digs and stuff. I didn't want to do that.
I'm crazy as hell. But then I loved jazz. And
you know, my dad they emigrated to New York City
in nineteen thirty nine from Romania.

Speaker 6 (23:38):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 5 (23:39):
You didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
See, you know how we know each other, but we
don't know everything.

Speaker 5 (23:43):
Yeah, man, first generation American.

Speaker 6 (23:46):
That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
I didn't know that. That's crazy. So where did they move.

Speaker 5 (23:49):
They they came over during the World's Fair and they
actually lived in.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
They moved like.

Speaker 5 (24:00):
Across the street from the Museum of Natural History.

Speaker 6 (24:03):
Oh my god.

Speaker 5 (24:04):
Yeah, the building is still there. And then my dad,
when he was a young man, moved to Brooklyn Heights
and his rent was ninety dollars a month. So he
moved to Carmine Street. His rent was forty five dollars
a month.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Whoa, yeah, in the West Village, in the Westville, it
was cheaper than Brooklyn Rights.

Speaker 5 (24:21):
Yeah, Brooklyn Heights has always been like, that's insane. I know,
but he so, you know, we would come here every
Christmas and spend time with my with all the crazy
Romanians in New York.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
So he always had a part in New York Street.

Speaker 5 (24:33):
Yeah, and I was always fascinated by it. So it
was so fun to move here. And I auditioned at
Berkeley and at Manhattan School. And at Berkeley it was
like what year was it that I would have been
mighty something ninety three or something, and Berkeley was like,
we need women. Here's a full ride scholarship. And I

(24:54):
was like, I don't want anybody who wants me that bad.
And I was like, that's crazy. I didn't want to
live in Boston because I New York. You know, you
wanted to come to New York and I had all
the crazy Romanians here. So anyway, I auditioned it Manhattan
School and they were like you suck, and I was like,
you know what, I'll take it New York.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
You're you like to be punished. It's kind of.

Speaker 5 (25:15):
Hot, turns me on.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (25:16):
I just wanted to be Yeah, well.

Speaker 6 (25:18):
This is where it's at.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
I mean, Boston's great, but where you want to be
to play music as a young.

Speaker 5 (25:24):
And also to play so many different kinds of music.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, did you know you were interested in the rock
and roll yet?

Speaker 11 (25:32):
No?

Speaker 5 (25:33):
Interesting, I didn't start playing electric bass until I was
about thirty.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
What.

Speaker 5 (25:37):
Yeah, I'm not kidding.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
You didn't know that.

Speaker 5 (25:39):
No, I know. It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Had I met you yet?

Speaker 5 (25:42):
You should see how her eyes are sparkling. She was
a little bit turned on.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
I have sparkles in my eyes.

Speaker 6 (25:47):
I had met you already.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, yeah, I met you at a wedding in like
two thousand and three or four, right, you were playing
in the band and I was a guest at the
wedding and my friend was was in the band, and
so we talked.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah, and you came.

Speaker 5 (26:05):
You were so nice. I was drunk. I was drunk
at the wedding, but you didn't. You drunk doesn't mean
you had to be nice.

Speaker 6 (26:11):
I was definitely a nice drunk always.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
I've never been a mean drunk, just annoying, probably like
a chatty drunk annoying.

Speaker 5 (26:21):
But yeah, that's where we first met. And then you know,
we would be at this club and the living room,
the club on the Lower East Side where oh yeah,
a big watering hole for musicians.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, and you you liked my hair. One night, I did,
and I showed you my extensions.

Speaker 5 (26:38):
Yeah, she said, you like my hair, check it out.
And she flipped her head over and showed me your extension.
She goes, you can touch them if you want.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
I was like, wow, happy drunk.

Speaker 5 (26:47):
It was awesome.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
It was crazy. That was a fun era.

Speaker 5 (26:51):
It was such a fun I miss I missed that.
I miss a lot of those people me too, Like
I think in a way a lot of people, uh
were all over the globe at this point. That was
their sort of like high high school football. You know,
the days that you remember that some people, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
The yeah, yeah, it's like the glory days. I mean
everybody has that at a certain age between your twenties
and thirties.

Speaker 6 (27:15):
It's like a thing or something.

Speaker 5 (27:18):
Right, Yeah, and everybody thinks that nobody else has it,
or or then it's over for everybody because yours are over.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
No, but it's still it's still going on for somebody.
Everybody in the city.

Speaker 5 (27:30):
They told my dad in the sixties, you know, well,
in the forties he was going to see you know,
Boris Karloff and Broadway and stuff like that. And then
in the in the fifties, when he moved back anyway,
he bounced around, but he moved back here and they
were like New York's over in the fifties, in the fifties,
So just keep that in mind, everybody.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
It's like an organism, you know it Sometimes it's sleepy,
but like it's never it's it's never going to die. Yeah,
well hopefully, hopefully. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (28:00):
I love the city.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
I love this city. So the other tune you did,
you sent this to me before you put it out,
and this is a pair of Ubu song. Oh yeah,
I have never heard of this band. I don't know
anything about them. I didn't know it, and I was like, damn,
this song is good, and your voice on this recording
sounds so sexy and so good.

Speaker 5 (28:22):
This was one where I learned how to use Logic Pro.
I learned how to use a better software, and I
laid down all the instruments except drums. I had somebody
fly that in. So when you said you wanted to
play it, I was like, I don't know how, but yeah,
Pair Ubu is this Chicago. It's like art punk, experimental rock,
like all the you know, they don't really know where
to put it, but it's this band from the I

(28:43):
guess the seventies that. Yeah, they just they're brilliant, and everybody,
all the like sort of outside jazz musicians we know,
were a part of it.

Speaker 6 (28:51):
It's really so cool. I didn't know anything about it.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
They you always turned me on to stuff I don't
know about it really.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Even in Pus and Boots, you always bring in covers
by bands that I've never really checked out, you know,
and they're always kind of just like punk rock, right
a little bit.

Speaker 5 (29:10):
Yeah, yeah, in that realm after after nine to eleven,
like a month after nine eleven, I used to tamp
at the World Financial Center, so the time, and they
they had this company that I was working for come
in like a month after, you know, and so it
was still burning and we're you know, nobody's in the
office but us. And I was working for the you know,

(29:33):
a high up guy, and nobody was there. So I
listened to internet radio and like that's where I heard
the song, and I it's from a live There was
a show, uh in the seventies called Night David Sanborn
and Jules Holland. It was called Night Something.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, I found that online yesterday.

Speaker 6 (29:55):
It's so I can't remember it's like.

Speaker 5 (29:56):
A jazz you know, artie show, and so that's where
I lifted it from. And I found it when I moved.
I found it on a CD and I was like, God,
it's just so evocative, like let me walk with you.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
It's such a killer song. The first line that he sings,
and when your cover too, when you sing it, it's
just so enticing. Oh yeah, I love it. Let's do it.
I don't know what I should play, but I'm gonna
let's see. You want me to chunk right? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (30:23):
If you can?

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Are you gonna play bass?

Speaker 5 (30:25):
I'll play bass?

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Cool, I'd see. I didn't know you tempt at or
that you did financial temping or that you see I
don't know so much about you.

Speaker 5 (30:34):
I tempt. I would bring my upright bass and put
it in the corner and work twelve hours and then
go play a gig.

Speaker 6 (30:39):
Are you serious?

Speaker 3 (30:40):
It's awful?

Speaker 1 (30:41):
That's crazy, Okay, the things we do.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
I know.

Speaker 5 (30:46):
So this has like a really fun, wandering bass line
that I can't play and sing.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah, I noticed that it is very wandering.

Speaker 5 (30:55):
This is what I call a victory lap basline. From
beginning to end.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Play guitar in this I love it. Okay, I'm gonna
play acoustic though.

Speaker 5 (31:05):
I love it all right, let's try this.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
Dog day afternoon.

Speaker 13 (31:21):
Bye see, think about you?

Speaker 3 (31:28):
What am I gonna do? Sorrows hanging over me? Bye
bye bye. Let me walk with you.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
Because it's breaking.

Speaker 13 (32:05):
My the things that we had, the good and the bad.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Now it's sparking up. Don't. Let's talk about tomorrow.

Speaker 13 (32:22):
Baby, was standing at the edge of sorrow.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
It's like the whole world's going zap.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
It's like the whole worlds going.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
I know my way around you.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
Still live around here.

Speaker 13 (33:07):
I know the sights to see things they mean to me.
How we tore it down.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
Let me walk with you because it's breaking my heart.

Speaker 13 (33:27):
Things that we had, the good and bad.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
Now it's sparking up. Don't.

Speaker 13 (33:35):
Let's talk about some myro.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
Baby.

Speaker 13 (33:39):
It was standing at the edge of sorrow.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
It's like the whole world's going slow.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
It's like the whole worlds going.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
It was a dream. But it was a tin cake.
Now he not a tree. It was a tin cake.

Speaker 16 (34:12):
Had I not kicked that? Had I not kicked that?
Had I not kick that? Had I not kick that?

Speaker 3 (34:28):
It was a ge?

Speaker 17 (34:32):
Don Let's talk about tomorrow. Baby, it was sting the
edge of sorrow.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
It's like the whole world's going slow.

Speaker 17 (34:47):
It's like the whole world, lets going don let's talk
about tomorrow.

Speaker 9 (34:57):
He was a gre bitche of sorrow.

Speaker 5 (35:17):
Yeah, man, it's folk music.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
Hell, Louis Armstrong.

Speaker 5 (35:20):
What did he say is all music is folk music.
Courses don't make music something like that. That's fucking awesome.

Speaker 6 (35:30):
We got it, We got it. That was cool.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yeah, that song it's and you.

Speaker 5 (35:35):
I just it's so cool to play. I mean not
that I ever play this. I did it one live
show and then so to get to play it anyways
extra for me.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
So we did an emails episode a few a few
weeks ago, and we got all these requests for who
people want on the podcast, and I think you were
the most requested person. Did you write in a bunch?

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Did? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (35:57):
It was the email address. No, I'm just yeah I did.
I didn't. No, I can't believe it.

Speaker 6 (36:04):
You're the most requested person.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
And one person requested Paul McCartney and Kat Popper, which
I thought was amazing.

Speaker 5 (36:13):
Well, it would have been odd to I wouldn't want
to show him up. So I'm glad that he wasn't
here together. Yeah, okay, well that would have been that
would have been fun. It would have been really awkward
for him. That's how I learned how to play bass.
Was his bass line in James Jamerson's bass lines. Yeah, yeah,
oh electro electric.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
Yeah, in your thirties, that's crazy.

Speaker 5 (36:33):
Yeah, it was in my thirties. And then when I
started playing rock music, people were like, why don't you
play with the kick drum? And it was you know,
you're supposed to go boom, boom boom, and I was
playing all these dancy Beatles lines and Jamerson.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Like, yeah, you're you're a very lyrical bass player.

Speaker 5 (36:48):
It took me forever to figure out how to play
with the kick drum because I thought, well, the kick
drum is doing that, why do I have to do that?
But you know sometimes it's called for that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, I didn't know any of that.

Speaker 5 (37:00):
Well, that makes me so happy.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
We should play another song. Let's jump forward. You're in
this whole rock scene for the last fifteen or so years,
twenty years.

Speaker 5 (37:12):
Maybe. I always have to look up on Wikipedia how
old I am?

Speaker 1 (37:16):
How old are you? No, don't you wo not have
to go out there?

Speaker 5 (37:19):
I'm fifty this year.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
That's crazy, it's crazy. Yeah, I remember your fortieth. We
brought you a yellow cake. I remember seeing you at
the living room, seeing you at that wedding, and then
all of a sudden you were playing with Ryan Adams,
who I was a huge fan of at that time.
I was like a massive It was a big influencer

(37:42):
on me those.

Speaker 6 (37:43):
First few records.

Speaker 5 (37:44):
Oh wow.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah, and then I don't think I knew you that
well when he called me in to sing on was
that Cold Roses?

Speaker 15 (37:52):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (37:53):
Yeah, God, that song you guys did together.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
It's still my favorite, But that we didn't really know
each other. Well, we knew each other, but remember when
I came in and.

Speaker 5 (38:02):
Yeah, I do. I couldn't believe. And you he sat
at the piano with you. You guys recorded it sitting
next to each other, right, I.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Mean we only did like two takes. No, we did
one take. He wouldn't let us do it again.

Speaker 5 (38:15):
And that's how we recorded the whole album. He would
sort of come in four hours late and then you know,
say press go, and the mics wouldn't be ready, and
he would play a song we'd never heard. Yeah, we
would guess what the chord changes were going to be
and sometimes afterwards we would go in and like punch
the most egregious mistakes.

Speaker 6 (38:32):
But that's quite a way to do things.

Speaker 5 (38:35):
That was awesome. I loved it.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah. I love that fly by the seat of your
pants get away too, And also like all the mistakes
are kind of beautiful. I remember not liking this one
vocal thing I did in that take of Dear John,
and but he wouldn't let us do it again. And
then now when I listened to it, I'm like, that's nothing.
That doesn't bother me at all. It's not even it's

(38:57):
not even that weird.

Speaker 5 (38:58):
I think, Yeah, I know, I mean I don't really
listen to that stuff very often. It was a hard
time for me. Yeah, but when I do, I'm like, gos, shit,
I can't believe the snapshots, you know.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah, they're snapshots. That's what these recordings are. And that's
why when they're so off the cuff, it's so much
more special, I think.

Speaker 5 (39:15):
And what we're doing today, where you know, we didn't
rehearse this stuff, and I don't play my songs ever,
and I've never played them and sang that at the
same time, like this is what music should.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
Be like, you know, but I love that you're putting
out singles now well as a you, as a you,
a cat popper. I look on Spotify for cat Popper
and your name comes up as an artist and it's
you doing your song Maybe it's all right, you know,
and I think that's so cool.

Speaker 5 (39:44):
Well, I was pushed a friend. I recorded it on
garage Band and I wrote it. It's another song yet
about it's called maybe It's all right, And it's not
like it's all right. It's like, well, maybe it's all right?
Like can I live with? Maybe? Like something terrible is
how to me? Can I live with? Maybe this is
going to serve me or someone else in some way,

(40:05):
because like everybody's gonna die, and you know, it's easy
to forget that, but like, can I believe in a
loving universe that like is gonna you know, uh let
me die. So anyway, just during the pandemic, I pulled
out my recording gear and you know, I recorded that
song and it's like it's a mess.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
It's great.

Speaker 5 (40:26):
Well, it's a great song. But like when I recorded
the vocal, I laid down on the couch and just
laid the microphone on my face, like I just so
there's no pop screen on it or anything. It's you know.
And then my friend Jesse Mallin, who's one of my
best friends. He's he has a small record label called
Velvet Elk Records, and he said, let's put it out.

(40:47):
I was like, are you nuts?

Speaker 1 (40:48):
I feel like he's one of your pushers. He like,
he pushes, he he rolls you in the same directions
that me and Sasha might have ten years ago, like
tried to trying to like remind you that you're bad.

Speaker 5 (41:00):
He he I'm so lucky, Like he does it all
the time, and he he insisted. And I my first
question was why, like that sounds like work and.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Then it doesn't have to be though it.

Speaker 5 (41:14):
Doesn't know because I thought I was supposed to make
a record and tour. He's like, let's just put the single.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
No, he makes records like you can just put singles out.

Speaker 5 (41:21):
You can just put singles. Great, and then you know,
we had Jamie, your front of house guy Landry mix it,
which was not an easy task because I didn't know that, Yeah,
it's a mess.

Speaker 6 (41:32):
I didn't know Jamie mixed that.

Speaker 5 (41:34):
So he did a great job and then we made
a video about being My friend Vivian Wong made a video.
It was during a pandemic, and I did all this
nerd research about old historical places that are gone or
are still there, and we did before and after pictures
that we took from archives.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Well, that like ties in with your your sort of
interest in all that stuff history nerds do. History. You're
such you're the biggest history buff.

Speaker 5 (42:04):
Do you remember when you you renovated your house and
you wouldn't let me metal detect you.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
You asked if you could come over and metal detect
when we dug out the basement, and I actually didn't
care if you did. But then my contractor said that
if you found a body or a bone, then we'd
have to stop the whole project.

Speaker 6 (42:21):
So maybe it's better to not let her.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
I would have. It's true.

Speaker 5 (42:27):
New York City is basically built on hundreds of years
of dead people.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Like my, God, that's crazy. I was, so, I was like, God, oh,
I would have. I just I didn't not want to
know you don't live.

Speaker 5 (42:40):
There, or kiss off your contractor.

Speaker 6 (42:42):
I just didn't want to know.

Speaker 5 (42:44):
That's I'll be That'll be the title in my book.
Nora wouldn't let me metal detect her.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
I Also, I don't think I realized that metal detect
was a verb, like I'm gonna can I come over
and metal detect at your house? Is that the C word?
A verb?

Speaker 5 (43:01):
Is that the correct I think, like like true people
they just call they say, uh, there's there's a word
for it.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
But detecting, Yeah, oh.

Speaker 6 (43:12):
Just detecting.

Speaker 5 (43:12):
I think so.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
But I like metal detect, metal detect. I think that
should be the name of your album when you finish it,
metal detect well, because also you're kind of you're kind
of hardcore underneath it all middle metal detect. I mean,
even though these songs are kind of sweet, you have
like a punk rock aura about you, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 5 (43:33):
It's a cool layer, neurotic nugat and then a punk por.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Punk center, a chewy punk center.

Speaker 6 (43:45):
Detect.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
That should we do that song?

Speaker 5 (43:49):
Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Yeah, let me let me switch to piano. You're gonna
play acoustic.

Speaker 5 (43:54):
I'm gonna play acoustic.

Speaker 18 (43:55):
Sweet?

Speaker 1 (43:56):
Thanks?

Speaker 6 (43:56):
Really mean to play guitar, dude.

Speaker 5 (43:58):
Anything you want to?

Speaker 1 (43:59):
Yeah, that's a cutie guitar?

Speaker 3 (44:05):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (44:05):
I know it's old, but is it new to you?

Speaker 3 (44:07):
Got it.

Speaker 5 (44:08):
I got it at Main Drag. I walked in. I
was like, right now a lot. So it's like two
hundred bucks.

Speaker 6 (44:16):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (44:17):
Yeah, it's really cute.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
It's really cute. Do you know what your it is?

Speaker 5 (44:20):
I don't know anything about it.

Speaker 6 (44:21):
That's awesome.

Speaker 5 (44:23):
I think it smells like a little bit like poop,
so I think it has a little bit of rot
in it. And I put it on a form of
like what do you do if your guitar smells like poop?
And and everybody was stumped.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
That sounds like a screen good screen bag crab. Right,
all right, So I guess I'm just gonna follow you.

Speaker 5 (44:51):
This song about love and loss? Remember if our Loves
one of the songs we would do when you would always.

Speaker 13 (45:03):
M hm.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Oh yeah, I don't remember. I don't know.

Speaker 5 (45:09):
We never knew.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Oh.

Speaker 5 (45:10):
Sometimes you would do it on hate You, so it
was like we never knew when you were going to start.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Oh, and I would do like a weird intro like
milk it.

Speaker 5 (45:19):
I don't remember, but you would be doing it. You'd
be flirting with us, like when when am I going
to stop mess with you?

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Let's do a gig soon. I miss it, don't cheez mmm.
I only get you and Sasha individually, now.

Speaker 5 (45:34):
I know.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
I know.

Speaker 5 (45:35):
It's like there's been a divorce.

Speaker 6 (45:37):
No, there hasn't.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
It's just it's too hard to schedule.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
No.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
No, I don't mean like like, yeah, yeah, I have
you have custody of me today. Sasha had custody of
me last night because we went out.

Speaker 5 (45:49):
And then I get custody because we're going to be
playing some.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Great Yeah you're you and Sasha are doing some stuff together.
I know that's awesome. I know, all right, we'll do
it soon. Put some boots. We'll be back, mark my words,
we'll be buck.

Speaker 13 (46:05):
Okay, lean, I might not mind that.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
A slow down and I lose.

Speaker 13 (46:23):
I guess I just get tired of waiting to feel
all right.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
Maybe that's all right. I got a bit play.

Speaker 17 (46:38):
Fascination with a thousand ways to let you do. I
sit here, walking at my foose, and maybe that's sorry.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
Maybe it's all right.

Speaker 17 (47:03):
The sweetest snow, sticky in the throat, empty nig sit
night again, and let's all.

Speaker 3 (47:27):
Oh, man, so complicated a rattle.

Speaker 19 (47:35):
When I want to settle down, sleepy, it fills up
with sparrows.

Speaker 13 (47:47):
All night, all right.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
The sweetest snow. Still in the road.

Speaker 13 (48:06):
I can't Fina Carapa sings.

Speaker 17 (48:10):
Yes, that's all right, that's all round, it's all right. Maybe,
oh just baby, I'll take my chances.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
As I'm falling.

Speaker 17 (48:40):
The wine's wind until I find these flowers in my way.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
If life was fair, i'd be struggled.

Speaker 17 (48:54):
Sweetest snow, sweetly in my role.

Speaker 8 (49:08):
Happy nags, so Jesus, and that's all.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
It's so, it's so, that's all.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
I sucked the ending, stuck the ending.

Speaker 5 (49:42):
Nobody will remember the rest of it.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
I forgot to come in on that one harmony, but
I think I covered Okay.

Speaker 6 (49:47):
I love that line.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
I've got a whiplash fascination with a thousand ways to
let you down right, that's fucked up walking into a room?

Speaker 3 (49:58):
How abmu? I gonna fuck it up today? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Right, Oh my god, that's amazing. Yeah. I love the Yeah.
You play guitar, you play loud. I don't mean to no, no,
I mean it's great. It's like your sound. We all
have our little sounds.

Speaker 5 (50:13):
Maybe it would be easier if I didn't play so loud,
but I don't know any.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Better for who I mean. I think that's cool. It
kind of dictates the vibe, you know, whenever we switch
guitars on stage with put some boots anyway, because we
always share guitars, it's so funny how different our feels
are and how different the amp settings have to be.
It's almost like harder to share a guitar. And also

(50:39):
like you and Sasha are so much harder than me.
We have to mark the straps so that I cause
I play it way higher the guitar strap.

Speaker 5 (50:47):
It's so great when we play. But also because I
think a lot of people have you know, they have
texts and stuff. You have texts in your band and
we don't. So we're doing all that stuff in between
songs and it's part of the show. It's like, this
is all the stuff that goes on to make music happen.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Yeah, it's like it's like a little complicated since we've
both we all three switch around on instruments so much now,
but it's also kind of simple because we just share
instruments and we can do it ourselves.

Speaker 5 (51:11):
It's like musical instruments, that's that's your joke. That's not funny.

Speaker 6 (51:16):
That's it's never been not funny or funny to.

Speaker 5 (51:21):
Make grony funny.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
You've always done that joke on stage, you know, I
can't help it, like a compulsion. You're great. Our shows
are so funny because, like we we do really quiet
ballads a lot, but then I feel like the energy
is punk rock because you and Sasha are always just
totally insane on stage.

Speaker 5 (51:43):
And then you pick your moments.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
I pick my moments because I don't I don't know
if I can match your your funniness, Like you're so
funny and Sasha is so funny, and I'm always like
the quiet one, and then I'll just be like me
ah or something.

Speaker 5 (51:58):
But it's almost too like you're just you know, you
don't need to vibe for space. You have these do
you have these singers that come out and I think
people are like, holy shit, that's that's the one who
sang that song that I love so much. That's fucking awesome.

Speaker 6 (52:13):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
I feel like a little gnome in our band sometimes
like really, yeah, I don't know, but also not at all.
I think. I think you guys are so good at
interacting with the audience, and it's never been something I've
I've always been shy to look at the audience. So
when we're in that band, I'm like forced to stand

(52:34):
there in front of the audience. But I always my
instinct when I'm standing on a stage because I'm used
to sitting in right at a piano, So my instinct
when I'm standing on a stage is kind of to
shrink back into myself or back into the back of
the stage almost. It's kind of funny.

Speaker 5 (52:50):
It's because it just comes across as confidence, and I'm
super codependent, so I want to make sure everybody's having
a good time.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Yeah, see, I'm I. I that's interesting to me.

Speaker 5 (53:01):
Yeah, And they say, you know, it's like everything you
know has a skillful and on skillful side, So it
means that I'm kind of you know I Maybe some
people disagree, but I feel like I'm kind of comfortable
on the mic, and I think it's yeah, just because
you know, it's like I'm having a party and I
feel guilty. You have to put pants on, and.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
You're the host of the party, so you want to
make sure that they're comfortable in their waistbands, right, that's funny.
I like, yeah, I like when we play at bars
and stuff, like when we play at Sunny's, I feel
more comfortable in those settings for some reason than on
a stage.

Speaker 6 (53:39):
With this band particularly.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
I don't know why.

Speaker 5 (53:42):
Well, I think it serves us. You know, there's people
who come to see music who love it so much,
and they don't there's not like a raucous vibe, and
I think, you know, it's I don't know. I don't
know if it's different now because of the Internet, but
I feel like people forget that the vibe that they
bring as a crowd is a part. It is all show.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
It's a it's a it's like the fifth Beetle. Yeah
it is, aren't there, Fine, it's the sixth Beetles. I
don't know.

Speaker 5 (54:07):
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
I don't know how any ping you're kidding. It's the
It's the fourth Puss.

Speaker 5 (54:15):
It's true. So when people people who know us come,
they know that, they're like, you know, they heckle us
and the woo a lot, and then other people they're like, oh,
we need to be respectful, which is really nice.

Speaker 6 (54:25):
It's really nice, but it's actually not what we want.

Speaker 5 (54:27):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
And the truth is even at my Nora Jones shows,
I love hecklers. I love people yelling at me or
woo age or wooing or even.

Speaker 6 (54:35):
Like even yelling.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
I know something, there's always a tipping point where it
gets obnoxious. But like I much prefer like a raucous,
yelly audience then right, Like you don't want to like clappers,
and you don't.

Speaker 5 (54:46):
Want the one lady who's yelling in between every song
or I like.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Her until about halfway about the set, and then I'm like,
all right, lady, you.

Speaker 5 (54:53):
Know, because that's that's but like wooing wooing and you know,
woo wooing woo woo.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
And then yeah, fuck yeah, I still get freebird every
once in a while. Which is it always.

Speaker 6 (55:06):
Cracks me up?

Speaker 5 (55:07):
So disappointing.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
I mean, I just I think people just think it's
still funny.

Speaker 5 (55:12):
The best heckle that I shouldn't give this up is
after somebody's first song is to scream one more?

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Have you ever done that?

Speaker 5 (55:20):
I did that a thousand times at the living room.
It had to be edited out of like which alive.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
More?

Speaker 20 (55:30):
All right?

Speaker 1 (55:30):
We got more for that's pretty funny? All right? Will
you come to my show and do that someday?

Speaker 5 (55:36):
Absolutely?

Speaker 3 (55:37):
One more?

Speaker 5 (55:37):
One more? Yeah? Or y'all play that one good one?

Speaker 1 (55:42):
Okay, no, that's not cool.

Speaker 5 (55:44):
But it's like, uh, usually people will know it's me.
I'm like, oh, cat's here.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
Cats here.

Speaker 6 (55:49):
You cracked me up. Well, you did a show solo.

Speaker 5 (55:52):
I did one just so Mallan had me do. He
was like a sold out stone Bony show. And I
opened and I played five songs solo.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Solo.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Well no, no, no, oh.

Speaker 6 (56:04):
You had a band.

Speaker 8 (56:04):
No.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
I meant like on stage, you had a band. Oh, fun,
that's fun.

Speaker 5 (56:08):
Well, I'd never done it before, so it's like, oh,
it's like I gotta pay people. I got the range,
rehearsal times and get everybody to the gigs.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
Yeah, you're used to not being the organizer.

Speaker 5 (56:18):
No, it's hard. I'd sit in the back and complain
about stuff.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
You you're like one of the most favorite side people.

Speaker 6 (56:26):
You're a side person.

Speaker 5 (56:27):
I am.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Yeah, Yeah, I feel like you are. You have done
so many great gigs as a bass player as part
of the band, an important part of the band, but
not the front man, not having to organize, not you know,
getting on payroll, but not having to you know, overthink
the the logistics of the stuff.

Speaker 5 (56:47):
It's so hard and just to do, you know, in
the interview show that I'm working on, which I just
as have been like this weird brain child, but just
to you know, it's a video show where we intern
few people.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
You may have.

Speaker 6 (57:02):
Done it yesterday.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Yeah, done it?

Speaker 5 (57:05):
I mean you may have. I'm not sure.

Speaker 6 (57:06):
I definitely did.

Speaker 5 (57:07):
But it's like just you know, having to come up
with the interviews and the ideas and then I'm doing most.
I have a partner, Dave. He's like, he's my producer,
my partner. But like I've learned how to use film software,
So editing something is like recreating. Yeah, you know, it's
like it's like throwing a bunch of It's like the
filming or the recording process is dropping a deck of

(57:30):
cards and then building them back up. Is editing so
you can make anything out of them. I had no idea.

Speaker 6 (57:36):
Yeah, you're getting creative.

Speaker 5 (57:38):
Yeah, it's it's exhausting.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
It's it's exhausting. Is it more exhausting than touring on
a tour bus with a bunch of stinky bandmates?

Speaker 5 (57:45):
It is more exhausting, But it's it's I just I.

Speaker 6 (57:49):
Ran out of steam to do that was hard.

Speaker 5 (57:51):
Yeah, I ran out of steam.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
I feel like the way you toured to like when
you were touring with Ryan, it was it was a
really long run. It was just long bunch of years.
He didn't really stop, did he.

Speaker 5 (58:04):
Well, you know we did because he would either he
would like fire us for a little while, or he
would cancel a tour. I think it was. It was
after that, the Jack White stuff and the Grace Potter stuff.
It was, you know, it was a lot at the
Grace Potter. We never came home.

Speaker 6 (58:19):
She never stopped.

Speaker 5 (58:19):
She never stopped.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
So when how long did you do Grace Grace Potter Race?

Speaker 5 (58:23):
A few years?

Speaker 6 (58:25):
You were a nocturnal.

Speaker 5 (58:26):
I was a nocturnal and it was so I mean,
I the only reason I left the band was because
it was like I have dogs, and yeah, boyfriend, I
miss I miss them.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Well, that road life is a totally different thing. It's
a different thing, and it's different whenever you're in a band,
even if you care deeply about the band and the
music and you have input, it's different when it's not
your personal project.

Speaker 5 (58:50):
Well, I always considered myself like a permanent private in
the army. Yeah, and I always liked to you know, really,
I liked support people and yeah, my favorite I always
quote Keith Christopher, my favorite bass player. He said, your
job as a bass player is to get your drummer laid.
So I do that, Like, that's what I do, is

(59:12):
I get I'm like so happy to make everybody feel good.
And you know, so I love being a side.

Speaker 6 (59:18):
No, you're you do love it.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
I can see that, but like to make it your
life on the road, I mean it's too much.

Speaker 5 (59:23):
Yeah, it's no. My body couldn't take it anymore.

Speaker 6 (59:26):
And you did the Jack White tour.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Were you you were a permanent part of the band,
but you were you came in after the fact as
a sub right, yes, yeah.

Speaker 5 (59:34):
Yes, so I came in and I did. I do
know it's like a year or something.

Speaker 6 (59:38):
Wow, that's a good amount of time though.

Speaker 5 (59:40):
And it was it was two weeks on, two weeks off.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
And which is that's a little more reasonable, It's more.

Speaker 5 (59:45):
Reasonable, but it was, you know, it's still a lot,
and it's you know, Europe and and yeah, and look
it's I'm so lucky. But I don't know about you
half these places, Like I think the most I've seen
of Paris is driving under the Eiffel Tower.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Yeah, you know, on the Yeah, that's life on the road.
You don't always get to really check out the town. Yeah,
it depends on how it's laid out. But you know,
it's more cost effective to not have a day off
in every city, Yeah, to just book shows and then.

Speaker 5 (01:00:14):
The bigger the shows. It's like you're on this bus
which is like a spaceship, and then you know, you're
playing in a big venue that's like a space ship.
So the spaceship docks and the other.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Spaceships docks in the belly of the spaceship and like
an indoor parking lots and it's usually a little bit
off the highway, so it's not like you're in the
center of the quaint town, right.

Speaker 5 (01:00:33):
So yeah, so playing you know, smaller venues is awesome,
but you know you're just like not necessarily going to
make a ton of money. And it's like like you
have you have a really good road set up.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Well, I've had the fortune of being able to plot
it out after you know, the first few years. Yeah,
being able to like pick and choose what's easy ish
and not easy.

Speaker 5 (01:00:56):
And you've done you've done harder touring, you've done van touring,
like you've done.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
I did do it for a little while, but you know,
I got I got upgraded to a bus early on.

Speaker 5 (01:01:05):
So but it's still nice that you you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
We did a van tour with Puss and Boots with
my four month old was in a car seat.

Speaker 5 (01:01:16):
He loved it. I mean sort of right, he.

Speaker 6 (01:01:18):
Sort of loved it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
I don't know, he doesn't remember it. My nanny remember
we brought my nanny and she's like, this is touring.

Speaker 6 (01:01:25):
It was a van tour.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
She's like, oh, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
I was like, don't worry, don't worry. When we go
out with my thing will be on an It was hilarious.
It's like a promise. It's not all like, it's all
not on a van.

Speaker 5 (01:01:41):
I don't know. Yeah, I like van touring, I think,
especially like in England.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Yeah, it can be It can be sweet if the
drives aren't too bad. You got to make sure the
drives aren't too long, and that nobody's stinky or eating
burritos in the car like.

Speaker 6 (01:01:55):
Beans or tuna.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
That wouldn't be good either.

Speaker 5 (01:02:01):
Or they forgot their tuna sandwich from yesterday.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
That's yes, and they left there's kippers in the seats
all right, well let's let's let's do another song. I'm
excited that you're writing and recording and putting out music.
It makes me really like glowy happy.

Speaker 5 (01:02:23):
Well you're so, you're another supportive one. And I like,
you know how people send you friends send you music
and stuff. And I was really shy about sending you
whatever I sent you, and I sent it to you
and I was like, I'm not you don't have to
listen to it, but I just wanted you to do,
you know, And then you were like, holy shit, I
love this.

Speaker 4 (01:02:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:02:41):
Oh, because it's just, you know, it's exciting to share
with friends. And also, you know, the subtext is like
it's because of you guys that you know. Ah, so
I had the you know, the courage to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
It's all building blocks. We're all students and we're all teachers.

Speaker 5 (01:02:57):
But I just and we'll play another song. I just
I'm always curious people know that they can do it,
Like how you knew at an early age that you
could write music and put it out and tour it,
and how like I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
I didn't know I could write music until I was
probably I think I was like twenty when I wrote
Come Away with Me. It was so simple and not fancy,
but it was from the heart. And it took me
many years after that to feel confident. And then that
Jeff tweetybook, you know, how to Write One Song? You
know how he talks about, Uh, yeah, there's no writer's block.

(01:03:28):
There's just there's just self editing. Once I figured that out,
like maybe ten or fifteen years ago, and that really
helped me. It doesn't matter if you think something's crap
or not. It's just like you move forward and then
you can polish it up at the end. And if
it's crap, you don't have to play it for anybody.
Yeah that's but yeah, he puts it much more poetically

(01:03:51):
in his book.

Speaker 5 (01:03:51):
But you gave it to me. It was like, I'm
not reading this.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Yeah, it's actually a really good creativity handbook.

Speaker 5 (01:03:56):
It's just intimidating to it, like how to write what's
called how to write One Song?

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
No, but that's why you should read it, because why
are you intimidated? He breaks it down. I mean, you
don't need it, you're writing songs.

Speaker 5 (01:04:05):
But I think it's like, despite myself, I find myself
writing a song. But if I think that I'm going to,
you know, in the artist way she talks about. First
of all, she says, there's no such thing as laziness.
It's fear. And it's like, no, no, I'm lazy. I'm
lazy too, and I'm not. It's fear, or not necessarily fear,
but just it's like showing up and sitting down and

(01:04:25):
just playing in a song usually.

Speaker 6 (01:04:27):
Comes ueah, fear of working.

Speaker 5 (01:04:29):
The other thing that, yeah, fear of working. The other
thing that she says, which is sort of what you said,
is you take care of the quantity and let the
universe take care of the quality.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Oh yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I have that book on
my shelf for twenty years and I've never done it
the artist's way. I know it's really good. Well, so
I like the Jeff tweedybooks, Like it's like just a
great handbook for creativity. It's a great way to spur
your own creativity.

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:04:54):
It's sort of what got me to the courage to write.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
Yeah, yeah, I want to. Maybe I'll get into it.

Speaker 5 (01:05:02):
It's really fun.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
I feel like my kids would be into that in
high school or something. Not yet they.

Speaker 5 (01:05:07):
Would be into it now. It's like the idea is
once a week you do something, you take yourself on
an artist date. Right, Yeah, And one of my artists
dates was look in the mirror and draw a picture
of yourself. And I was so intimidated and I was laughing.
It was like, I mean, I'm alone drawing a picture
and I'm totally intimidated. You know what I mean.

Speaker 6 (01:05:23):
It's amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:05:24):
Yeah, or go I went to Greenwood Cemetery. I was like,
I'm going to go to Greenwood Cemetery but myself, and
on the train, It's like, who do you think you
are with.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
In my head?

Speaker 5 (01:05:33):
And I was like, why would that even be there?

Speaker 6 (01:05:35):
Why do you have that guy in your head?

Speaker 5 (01:05:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (01:05:38):
I guess we all do.

Speaker 5 (01:05:40):
I think, yeah, either, we probably do. I think some
of us notice it more than others.

Speaker 6 (01:05:44):
Maybe that's it. Some of us have it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Ample if some of our guys have a megaphone and
some of them are just whispering quietly.

Speaker 5 (01:05:53):
Well, I've kept you here for ages. We want to play.
I'll talk to you all day.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:06:01):
Well, I'm so glad that I got to be a
part of it. Like, seriously, thank you for asking me.
I was so I thought, maybe you were confused, and
I was like, oh, yeah, I wrote some songs.

Speaker 6 (01:06:10):
I'm not confused that you're not.

Speaker 5 (01:06:12):
I'm not confused.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
I'm not confused. Okay, I have it together. All right,
Let's stoop Pine.

Speaker 5 (01:06:20):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
We talked about earlier. It's that song you wrote, what
like the one of the first songs you wrote, maybe
when we were starting to put some boots.

Speaker 5 (01:06:27):
Yeah, I you know, I used to have an addiction problem,
and this is about.

Speaker 6 (01:06:31):
Yeah, that I didn't know.

Speaker 5 (01:06:32):
You knew that you were, you were around for a
minute of that. Maybe you didn't see it. I didn't
really Yeah, I think it was like I don't think
many people saw it, but I.

Speaker 6 (01:06:39):
Was probably drunk when I saw it. So let's be honest.

Speaker 5 (01:06:43):
But this is about like, there was just a string
of people that I knew who died wow from uh
drug related death shall we say, And it was happening
all around me.

Speaker 6 (01:06:56):
So it really was. Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:06:59):
I know, it's so wild and just to like to
you know. So it's been it'll be sixteen years in
September since I've had anything.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Congratulations.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
I know.

Speaker 6 (01:07:07):
Well it's amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:07:09):
I'm just lucky.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
One day, one day at a time, but one day
at a time. You are lucky, but you also are
really determined and you did it for yourself.

Speaker 5 (01:07:19):
Well, I do think it's a really special come like,
it's not because I'm smart, and it's not because I
cared a lot. I did get really lucky that it
hit at the right time.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Yeah, so lucky is part of life, I guess.

Speaker 5 (01:07:32):
Yeah. Yeah, so I'm stoked that we're going to do it.

Speaker 8 (01:07:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:07:36):
Do you have that when you write songs that you
don't know keitherin?

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
No, I usually know what keitherin.

Speaker 5 (01:07:42):
It must be just guitar songs.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Actually, whenever we used to do El Madmo, that band
I had with daru Oda and Andy Borger, I wrote
a few songs like really high up on the neck
of the guitar, and I had no idea what I
was doing.

Speaker 5 (01:07:54):
Yeah, yes, yeah, that's maybe it's all right. People are like,
I'm not playing that guitar part. Doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
Also, yeah, that's too. The chords are weird. They're like
kind of a shell of a one four or five,
but then they have like weird extensions in them. And
you know, we just did this.

Speaker 5 (01:08:09):
Until I think it's a lot of replacements.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
Yeah, you love the replacements, I know you do. All Right,
here we go. I'm gonna play piano. Yeah, you don't
have to play guitar unless you want it. But no,
let me try this.

Speaker 5 (01:08:24):
Nobody wants extra shit.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
No, I love your guitar. And but I have a
thing I might.

Speaker 5 (01:08:27):
I can't wait.

Speaker 20 (01:08:28):
I just have a little idea. Here, pie tallingly.

Speaker 17 (01:08:46):
Get picked up one by one, shimmer in the street, line.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
Shimmles. The code is so mean. Words do they know?
They leave.

Speaker 7 (01:09:14):
In the w.

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
Sleepenless snows. The blood of the screen.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
Was z.

Speaker 13 (01:09:39):
By ch.

Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
The wind spread leave so lasted.

Speaker 10 (01:09:53):
We captly the raid.

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
In tire every hole.

Speaker 10 (01:10:03):
And girded the.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
Room with a stack of our souls.

Speaker 10 (01:10:33):
The bars held the hall of the advantail.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
We rive TIVI st trees that took a who stayed
sail sway and sleep.

Speaker 14 (01:11:03):
And lea hot spreak.

Speaker 4 (01:11:08):
For thing.

Speaker 18 (01:11:10):
Said, that's sad as shit, but sad, it's so sad,
so grim.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
It's grim, but he's really pretty.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
That was fad.

Speaker 5 (01:11:30):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
Thanks for having me wait.

Speaker 5 (01:11:37):
Perfect, thank you for learning my songs and for being
a generous friend.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
I thought you were going to say a gentleman, A
gentleman and a scholar.

Speaker 5 (01:11:46):
I love you, and you didn't mention my prosthesis today, which,
oh you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
Have a prosthetic thumb today, I do. I love you
so much. Thanks for doing this.

Speaker 5 (01:11:54):
Thank you can believe you asked. Thanks everybody, there's a
whole there's twenty people the audience today.

Speaker 6 (01:12:01):
I don't think so. You have a lot of fans.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
I know because they wrote in asking me to have
you on the show.

Speaker 5 (01:12:08):
Well, thank you for that. Don't buy anything I'm selling
because I'm not selling anything yet. But one day, you know,
buy something if I'm selling it. But until then, just
like be cool and try to be nice to people
on the internet.

Speaker 6 (01:12:22):
Wise words from a wise woman.

Speaker 5 (01:12:26):
I love you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
I love you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
I'm just Oh, that was fun.

Speaker 4 (01:12:35):
She's so funny.

Speaker 7 (01:12:36):
I love her.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
She is so funny. I felt like I interrupted a
lot because I was so comfortable with her. It didn't
I didn't remember we were doing like an interview.

Speaker 4 (01:12:46):
This is recorded, Nora.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
I'm sorry, Yeah, it kind of felt like band rehearsal.

Speaker 4 (01:12:53):
I love her singing voice. It's so sweet and sort
of haunting.

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
It's high and lonesome, right, It's got that Highlands.

Speaker 4 (01:13:01):
She's got a thing that I can't isn't like anything
else I've heard.

Speaker 1 (01:13:04):
It's just that sort of heart melancholy coming through I know.
I also love her voice very much.

Speaker 4 (01:13:11):
And she's like clever with her songwriting.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
Yeah, her lyrics are great, she's very poetic, and then
she just is hilarious.

Speaker 4 (01:13:20):
Anyway, we love Kat. She's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
Kat.

Speaker 4 (01:13:22):
Thanks for doing this.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
If you're curious about some of the songs we played,
the first one, written by Cat, is called Lucky and
it's off of the Puss and Boots album Sister. The
second song we did was a pair of Ubu cover
called Breath, and Cat put that out as a single
available online. The third song is called Maybe It's All Right,
written by Cat Popper, also available as a single online

(01:13:50):
under Cat Popper. The fourth song is called Pines and
it's off the Puss and Boots album No Fools, No Fun.

Speaker 4 (01:13:56):
Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe to Noradja owns
is playing along wherever you get your podcasts so you
never miss a new episode.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
This episode was recorded by Matt Marinelli and mixed by
Jamie Landry, edited by Sarah Oda. Additional engineering by Greg
Tobler and Steven Sacho. Artwork by Eliza Frye, Photography by
Shervin Linez. Produced by Me and my Oda, Me and

(01:14:25):
my Oda