May 12, 2026 • 58 mins
Legendary bassist Pino Palladino and producer, guitarist, and songwriter Blake Mills join Norah for a deep musical session. They let us in on the instruments they've brought to the studio, challenge Norah with some of the music, and share a set of immersive performances together. Recorded 10/2/25.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You
can visit Nora Jones channel and be sure to subscribe
while you're there. Hey, I'm Nora Jones and today I'm
playing along with Blake Mills and Pino Palladino.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm just playing.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I'm just playing lone Weezy. Hey, I'm Nora and this
is Sarah Oda. Hi, welcome to the show. Oh. Today,
we have a really fun show for you. We have
Blake Mills and Pino Palladino.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Yes, the two deeply admired musicians who are known for
shaping a whole range of records. Blake is a singer, songwriter, guitarist, producer.
He's known for his inventive playing and all his studio work,
and Pino is a legendary bassist whose sound is makes
(00:54):
him one of the most sought after bass players in
the world.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yeah, they've both played on so many class records and
it was a thrill to play with them. It was
also super hard. This was the hardest music I think
I've been thrown. I feel like you had some homework. Yeah,
but it was so fun. I love these songs. They're
beautiful and we caught them when they were on tour
playing songs from their new album That Wasn't a Dream,
(01:21):
And we played some songs from this album. It was
really fun.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yeah, and you talk a little bit about each of
their musical backgrounds and their creative processes and also how
they kind of came together, which is really cool.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
They also brought the most gear of anyone because they
were on tour and they had all their gear and
they all they both have, especially Blake, he has interesting
sounds and specific gear that he uses and weird guitars.
It's a real good guitar. That's his episode. It's magic, superpowerful. Yeah,
he's got some cool stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, and it's fun to have the rare trio in
this room in our studio.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So it was really fun. Please enjoy the episode with Blake,
Mills and Pani Paladino.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Going doing.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
At the mo A becusing.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Well that is very yummy. Really, it's really pretty too,
so good.
Speaker 6 (05:22):
It's so good to play music.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
It does, doesn't it.
Speaker 7 (05:28):
Is?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, that's why I do this, That's why I play music. Yeah,
what are you playing?
Speaker 5 (05:35):
What is? This?
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Contraption is a.
Speaker 6 (05:37):
Guitar built by a luthier named Rolf Spueller. He was
no longer with us, but he he was an instrument maker,
and as I understand it, his goal with this was
to try to make like the best sounding acoustic plugged
(05:59):
in acut stick guitar.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Oh wow, like.
Speaker 6 (06:04):
Uh, something that you could use on a stage and
and like turn up and it still sounds believable. I
mean the way that I'm using it with this music,
you're not really hearing much of the guitar itself. It's
sort of like the you know, the modeling things. But
but yeah, as a just plugging it straight into a
d I, it's a really remarkable really.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, so it has an acoustic sound totally. Is there
a way to show us or do you have to
unplug stuff?
Speaker 5 (06:31):
No?
Speaker 6 (06:31):
I mean there is a curious there is a way.
Speaker 8 (06:33):
There's not much sound comes from the body though.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
There's a little chamber in there, which is why it sounds.
Speaker 9 (06:39):
But the way that the way that.
Speaker 6 (06:42):
It's bill is definitely let's see what do I have here?
Speaker 8 (06:46):
So it's such a beautiful, it's so pretty, so great
to play.
Speaker 6 (06:52):
So it's like, so you have like a pizo that
you can blend with a microphone, So there's definitely a
mic and so.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
So you can kind of do anything with it pretty much. Yeah,
are you allergic to d I acoustic sounds?
Speaker 6 (07:14):
No not, It's not as hard for me because I
don't play with a pick.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, that makes it worse.
Speaker 7 (07:21):
So, like the.
Speaker 6 (07:22):
Pizo pickup is something I find really useful. But I
I think I know what you're talking about, and yeah,
you know, when I'm alongside it, it's pretty hard.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, that kind of it's hard to hear.
Speaker 6 (07:36):
Yeah, it's it's like you're inside of the bad dream
of what a guitar sounds like.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's hard to get a good a good one,
you know. So that's a good.
Speaker 6 (07:50):
You know, they're they're rare, you know. So it's it's
it's not a good, good solution for for very many people,
but yeah, it's it's a special instrument. I bought this
from our are one of our cohorts, Sam Gondel, who's
a saxophone player but is very on the up and
up when it comes to cool equipment. And I think,
you know the fact that we're showing up with like
(08:12):
boss chip tens and hexaphonic pickups, that's definitely his impact
on yeah, on us. Yeah, sometimes you get like gear
envy right when when we're playing with Sam and he
rolls on under the plane, he's got his entire setup
is just like this little like you know, Japanese's just
(08:35):
one of those. It's like it's got his entire setup
is in a trapper keeper, you know, and we're we're
cruising around with like guitar lockers and just thinking, you know,
next time it's going to be no gear. So so
this is actually kind of a downsizing for for us.
Speaker 10 (08:51):
You know.
Speaker 6 (08:51):
Yeah, we're rolling into this with with with sort of
a fussy setup. But for us it's great not traveling
with like pedal boards and things like that.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So it's still still less.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
Yeah, less for me, more for.
Speaker 8 (09:04):
You, Yeah, actually a little more for me.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 8 (09:06):
I normally just sticked one instrument if I can too,
but usually just bass.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
So yeah, but you're playing guitar.
Speaker 8 (09:12):
I'm playing a bit of guitar too, so yeah, it's
definitely a little bit different. But that's so fun for you, right,
I think I start Yeah, absolutely, I love it, and
I think I've started to make guitar faces too. I
don't know how to explain that, Isn't it weird?
Speaker 6 (09:27):
Are you telling a story like you're talking with the
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (09:31):
I'm just nowthing less in control of my face when
I'm playing guitar.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
Yeah, yeah, I suppose it's it's convenient that you wear
hats so often. Yeah, I had some glasses. I'm catching up,
always catching you.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
How's your guitar face?
Speaker 6 (09:49):
I look petrified. I think that's my style. It's just
like a deer in a headlights is what I'm going for.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
It's hard to control that.
Speaker 6 (10:01):
Yeah, I just let it. You know, the face makes me.
I don't make the face, that's how Yeah, well it's
pretty deep. Yeah, the face. If the the face mas
face makes you, first, shame on you, that's right. I think.
(10:23):
I think part of part of what gets me out
of hot water as a guitarist is that I sit
so often when I play. I think it neutralizes a
lot of weird energy that makes makes you do bad
things as a guitarist. Why do you say, Well, partly
for that reason, part but partly because I don't know.
(10:47):
I find that the the ergonomics of it are are
a lot easier when you you've got the ability to
balance it and move it, and you know you can
sometimes depending on the tune, like this. The stretch is
kind of unusual. And when I do that with a strap,
it's just it's inevitably sitting in this way that I've
(11:09):
got to do something that's more painful.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
It almost feels like you're unanchored.
Speaker 6 (11:15):
Yeah, yeah, totally. And unless the strap is.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Like you know, up here, then you'd be one of
those really high guitar I'm like that. I play really
high guitar, yeah, where it's just like in my art basically,
and I'm in a band where we switch guitars because
we're too lazy to bring a ton of gear. We
just share the guitar and they always have to make it. Yeah,
but I also sit very high at the piano.
Speaker 6 (11:41):
So yeah, did you develop that out of like habit
was it like you know, time you sat where you learned?
Speaker 1 (11:50):
It was on a I think I'm just short and
I have a high waist, so I'm just I don't
have a lot of body. And I remember I used
to do gigs in New York and I'd always ask
for the phone book to sit on it. Then they
start making phone books. But it's okay, I got a
piano tech at that's that's great. But yeah, I sit
weirdly high.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
So we were talking the other night about organists who
play the pedals. Oh yeah, and not only how incredible
that is to watch somebody do and here's somebody do,
but also thinking about the ergonomics of that, where like
you're constantly doing like leg lifts sitting down and you
(12:29):
no longer have presumably, I mean I don't know how
to do it, but from what I can tell, like
you don't have that stability, you know, you know, you're
you're tapping your foot against the floor and.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
You're not wearing shoes. They're usually in socks. Yeah right,
and oh yeah that would be weird.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Yeah, you might have the body type for it, though,
like you've got you've got the legs, You've already got legs. Yeah,
the posture, you know, situated.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
I don't know if I have it in me.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
We got to get you a set of pedals down.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
We have a set of pedals.
Speaker 6 (13:01):
Let's fire my up.
Speaker 7 (13:02):
Yeah, no, we have them all.
Speaker 6 (13:03):
Let's get you up there.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah. My husband's a really good organ player. He can't
like go fast on the pedals, but he's Yeah, it's.
Speaker 6 (13:10):
It's like watching somebody, you know, walk on a hammock
or something.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, it's sort of getting lost, right, It's not really
very common, just insane. Well, he was telling me that
a lot of people, like, didn't Jimmy Smith do his
left hand? He didn't do pedals?
Speaker 8 (13:27):
Yeah, I think maybe sometimes it's a combination too.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah, combination. Yeah, it depends on how fast it is.
Speaker 6 (13:34):
I guess cheating in there.
Speaker 8 (13:36):
Yeah, but what a great sound.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Who cares?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
He was amazing.
Speaker 8 (13:40):
Yeah, I try and make that sound.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
I know.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Organ is so cool. Yeah. How long have you guys
known each other?
Speaker 8 (13:48):
Since?
Speaker 6 (13:50):
About ten years or something?
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Oh, that's it?
Speaker 8 (13:52):
Yeah, twenty sixteen, I think, okay, maybe fifteen.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
How did you meet?
Speaker 8 (13:57):
Well, we met because Blake was producing an album and
invited me and Chris Dave to be the room section.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Wow, that's a good idea.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
Yeah, I was really reached too far for that.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
What album was that?
Speaker 6 (14:12):
It was John Legends Darkness and Light. That's beautiful and yeah,
one of the ideas was to just have a live
rhythm section, uh for all the songs. And that was
the first project I was a part of that that
I had a chance to work with these guys on it.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
That's so great.
Speaker 6 (14:30):
And during that record Pino mentioned that he'd been working
on some of his own material, and we had a
promotional show I think here in New York in Brooklyn,
and after the show, Pino took me to a studio
(14:51):
and played me one of the songs that he had
been working on and it was phenomenal and it was
I play. I had a few things on it, And
then for about six months was just texting him NonStop, like,
you know, when kind of hear that again and yeah,
you know, how did that turn out? And and and
(15:14):
and at one point you were in la We opened
up the song again and we started to explore, you know,
other places that it could go and arrangement ideas, and
and after doing that with a few more compositions of Pinos,
we we realized that we were working on something that
felt like an album.
Speaker 8 (15:35):
Yeah, and also something that was to me felt like
a collaboration, because at first didn't kind of stop off
that way, but it was, it was It became obvious
pretty quickly, Yeah this should.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Be that's great. Yeah, and is this your third album together?
Speaker 6 (15:51):
Second?
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Second, second, okay, wow, And it's so different. It's so
different from anything I feel like, and it's so sonically
rich and and weird and beautiful and I don't know,
it just must be so fun because you both play
(16:11):
with like so many people to just have this weird,
special thing that you're doing together.
Speaker 8 (16:18):
Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 6 (16:20):
Yeah, I think we I think we were kind of
tickled by the the unusual choices in music, you know,
not just our own, but you know, just in general
as listeners. That's yeah, that's what we gravitate towards some balance,
you know, presence of that alongside things that are you know,
(16:42):
maybe more traditionally rewarding. And that's a cool that's a
cool line to to try to follow you through different projects.
I think that that's relevant to no matter what kind
of music it is. That's a that's a relevant recipe
I think for Yeah. Six, so.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Just do what moves you.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Weirdness if it's if it's out of the norm and
it moves you, then follow it.
Speaker 8 (17:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (17:13):
Yeah, it's beautiful. You were thinking about how many things
were out of the norm before they became the norm.
That's true too, Like, yeah, you know, accessible music in
so many cases wasn't at one point when it came out.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
That's true.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
It was unusual and only through its sort of popularity,
or like hearing non musicians sing h Gary Rafferty right
down the line. Yeah, seeing all those modulations at karaoke. Yeah,
but they know them, they know them, And how many
modulations happen in red a Chili Pepper's hits.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
That's right. I never thought about that.
Speaker 6 (17:54):
It's yes, totally strange music, very strange on paper, Investigator.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
It's always why I liked it.
Speaker 8 (18:01):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
I mean, so with this program, you're doing a lot
of unfamiliar music.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, I mean part of the fun part is doing
things that are out of my own wheelhouse. And sometimes
people come in with songs that I can learn very quickly.
And then today, for instance, I was like cramming and
also nervous, but also I know you're safe people, and
it's going to be okay. Once we're in the room.
(18:29):
It always feels like we're making music and it's not
a big deal. But I was like, what is that core?
Speaker 11 (18:36):
You know?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
But so it's it's really good for me though, you know,
I think learning other material always informs something down the
line that you're going to spit out right, So totally
opens to Yeah, it's not why I decided to do this,
but it's been the upside. It's been one of the
many upsides to it. Yeah, just having to kind of
(18:58):
sharpen my tools a little, which is good for me
at this point. Yeah, move it or lose it. Yeah,
it's like a nice way to play music without traveling,
you know.
Speaker 6 (19:13):
Yeah, that's that's important.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Even though I love to travel. It's like nice to
cut back a little.
Speaker 6 (19:18):
Yeah. Yeah, so we're with you.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Thanks for coming, and you have a show tonight, so
I don't want to we have a show.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
We have a show tomorrow. We have a show tomorrow. Okay, Yeah, cool,
we're happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Oh good, you're not like going straight to soundcheck.
Speaker 8 (19:33):
Great, you can't get rid of this quickly.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
That's great.
Speaker 6 (19:37):
You don't have to play the next one at double speed.
Speaker 8 (19:40):
Right after all?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Good, because I don't think I could play it.
Speaker 8 (19:46):
I did.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I did something with Brandy Younger last week and the
Harp Heart Heart Player, and she had a couple of
tunes that I was like, wait a second, and then
she she's like, I had charts I could have sent you,
And I was like, I didn't even think to ask that.
But it's probably better for me to learn it on
my own, you know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (20:05):
I didn't know what your background was and if having
a chart would would be helpful or Yeah, I don't read.
You don't know really, No, I mean I can. It's
sort of like reading a book upside down or something like.
I can kind of, I'll meet you there, but I don't.
I certainly can't sight read. I can read a chord chart,
but a lot of our music doesn't have chords.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Well that's why. Yeah, that's why I was it's funny.
You sent me this YouTube of the next song we're
going to play YEA and the guy had written a chart,
which is great. But I don't know if you watched it.
He just was close up on each measure as the
song went on, and I was so frustrated. Yeah, I
(20:48):
couldn't take a picture of me. But thank god he
did it. Anyway, I'm thankful for it. But it was
pretty funny.
Speaker 6 (20:54):
He's a friend. Yeah I should have. I should have
seen it if there was like a pdf.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
No, it's it was funny. I was like, that makes sense. Otherwise,
nobody's gonna watch the whole video. They're just gonna take
a screenshot. I get it, but it was funny.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
I texted with him this morning and he lives in
Germany and he's playing that song. That's so cool I
think right now, like as a solo piano piece. Oh
that's beautiful. Well, I love this song.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Let's let's dive in.
Speaker 9 (21:40):
Wow Linsen muscou.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
A fun.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
And every day is great. Clowns just float on.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
M hm.
Speaker 12 (22:11):
I look for your face. You are not a fool ah,
can't see what you do?
Speaker 5 (22:32):
What is wrong with me?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Look into my tell me what you see, tell me
(23:10):
to be?
Speaker 9 (23:13):
Was frong with me?
Speaker 13 (23:24):
What a strong with the.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
Studiunier games, school, still.
Speaker 13 (24:38):
School, compos.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Well, we've all been doing this long enough to know
(27:10):
when you feel really good about something and also the
specific things you want to catch along the way.
Speaker 6 (27:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Something that helped me recently was thinking about it like
an abstract painting, as long as the shape is there
and you can hear what's going on. Phil, No, it's
a song. It's like this thing I've been doing to
stop myself from overdoing it. It's funny.
Speaker 6 (27:34):
That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
YEA.
Speaker 8 (27:36):
The essence of the song, it's the essence of ingredients
that you want to put the emotion.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, I work with Leon Michaels. Do you know him.
He's a producer. He also has a band called El
Michael's Affair. But he we work a lot digitally, but
he always erasist stuff. I'm like, wait, I had it
like seven seven vocals ago. He's like, well that's on.
I'm like wait a second. But it's almost like he
(28:03):
pretends that he's on tape and he'll so it keeps
him from having too much stuff. That's pretty great.
Speaker 6 (28:09):
That is great. Yeah, I think it does, you know,
especially if if it becomes part of the conversation and
part of the process too. Are you sure you want
to do another one, because yeah, it means we're going
to lose you want to listen?
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yeah, no, he doesn't do that. That's a cool part
to take for then it's just you listen more exactly.
Speaker 6 (28:28):
Listen back more like with digitally, you just kind of
you wait to do all that later exactly. Yeah. I
questioned too, whether we as the the party responsible for
the making of the the thing, if we are always
the best arbiters of what is important to capture, you know,
(28:54):
like what's important to achieve because our perspectives are considering
so many things about the music that in many cases
aren't going to be part of the listener's experience or
or or yes, their connotation.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
But I think we're the creators, So I think it's
I think we can do what we want. We can
do We can absolutely do anything the important stuff that
we think is important. Yeah, you know, I think so,
But I know what you mean.
Speaker 6 (29:25):
Like, for example, you know, how have you ever been
in that situation where you're you're working on a mix
of a vocal blend and that part of your intention
is I want to make sure that the melody, the
thing I wrote and think of as the melody you know,
hierarchically is placed and that the subservient harmonies are understood
(29:48):
as such. And so you you know, you you finesse
this blend of this thing right, and at the end
of the day, what people are going to hear and
latch onto. It's like, what's what is the melody of
Sweet Judy Blue Eyes? Who's seeing the melody on those
Cross Pistols and Nash records? Like a lot of times,
Graham Nash's part is the thing that pops back into
(30:11):
your head. You know, It's sort of like the stratosphere yeah,
the high so so in trying to control the experience
somebody's going to have and listening to it, even if
you have all the money and time in the world
to get it perfect, you don't have that control ultimately,
Like it's it's its own thing, and that's the that's
sort of that's my version of letting go in the studio,
(30:36):
Like when you're describing with the painting, it's just reminding
myself that, like it's I'm going to hear this differently
in two years as well.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
The time the time thing is really key. I think
taking space and then coming back to listen to something
and then realizing, oh, that's so cool. I can't remember
what happened with that. Yeah, you know, like wait, so
it sounds.
Speaker 8 (31:00):
Fresh to you.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 8 (31:02):
But I mean, don't you both think that playing and
listening while you're playing is very different to going in
and listening to what you've just performed completely. It's if
we could do both perfectly, then it would be easy,
I know.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
And because you're so different, you're focused on getting it right. Also,
I mean the best is when you can forget about
what you're doing and just be in it, of course,
but when you're recording, usually you're learning a song or
you're trying to get the right part, and you're kind
of thinking a little well, there's.
Speaker 8 (31:35):
A responsibility exactly for the music.
Speaker 6 (31:37):
Yeah, totally. These things also have a point of view too.
You do your performance, but then you're going back and
you're listening to it, you know, a translation of it, yeah,
in the recording. Yeah, so yeah, it has to. I
think the painting analogy or some sort of a two
dimensional framework is a really good one for recorded music
(31:59):
because it it doesn't end up coming back at you
out of like you know, two speakers.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Or as one kind of weird.
Speaker 6 (32:09):
Yeah, it's like a version of reality.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
It's not reality.
Speaker 6 (32:12):
It's not exactly you know, it's not what's happening in
the room. No matter how good the recording is. It's
just a different medium. Yeah, but it's it's fun. It's
it's cool when you can you know, when you're standing
in front of a painting that looks life like or
even you know, something more than life like.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah, you want not lifelike. I don't as a as
a as an art viewer, I like a painting that's
sort of alluding to something. But of course music is different.
But yeah, anyway, it's interesting. I don't know, you've played
on so many records, both of you. I mean, you
(32:53):
must have gone through so many different types of processes
with people. Or do you feel like you're usually drawn
to similar like same like goes with like or do
you feel like you've just been you've seen a lot
of really different ways of working.
Speaker 6 (33:12):
Yeah, I feel like that's for sure.
Speaker 8 (33:15):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (33:16):
I think you just have to adapt exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
And it's not that one's better or that one gets
a better result necessarily.
Speaker 8 (33:25):
It's really just finding a way of putting what you
have into the music onto the music so that so
that you know it's it's right, it feels good. Yeah,
so many different ways of getting that.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
I know.
Speaker 8 (33:39):
Yeah, I don't know the secret.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
I know, Well that's the that's the the elusive magic dust.
Speaker 5 (33:45):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 6 (33:49):
I think I've had I've been in situations where I've thought, like, it's,
you know, are we making this harder for ourselves than
we need to?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (33:58):
And in many case as I think we probably are. Like,
it doesn't have to be as difficult as it sometimes feels,
but it also doesn't have to not be work hard work,
Like you know this idea that you go in and
you know when you're making a record, the most important
thing is that we just all go in and have fun.
Is like that is the most important.
Speaker 14 (34:21):
Thing some people.
Speaker 8 (34:22):
Yeah, you have to go past that.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Yes, it's not what it's all about. It's like, at
the end of the day, I think you still have
a responsibility to yourself to try to make the best
record you can make and that that should take a
little bit of heavy lifting at times.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
It definitely it means you have to do another one
all the time.
Speaker 6 (34:47):
Yeah, they kind of they set up, They set themselves
up a little bit, don't they. Like once you once
you finish, you finished the album, then you kind of
go like, all right, I don't ever want to do
any of that again next time, you know, naxt time.
We're going to Barbados, Right, We're just going to do
it one day.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, Well, you've done those before and they can be fun.
Speaker 6 (35:08):
It just depends.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
You grew up in Wales. Yeah, yeah, And when did
you come to the States or did you start touring first?
Speaker 8 (35:19):
Yeah, first toured in the States with Jules Holland actually
really yeah, Okay, it's in the band with Jewels.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
That's so cool.
Speaker 8 (35:25):
It was like nineteen eighty one, I think, and toured
over here with Paul Young in the eighties too, and
then started doing studio work and gradually ended up spending
a lot of time in America, and eventually in twenty sixteen,
I moved out here permanently.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
In twenty sixteen only okay, yeah, wow, you're like, all right,
I'll finally take the punch. Yeah, twenty sixteen. Funny year
to move here.
Speaker 8 (35:53):
Yeah, if I think about it, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Do you remember the first record you played on?
Speaker 5 (36:03):
Wow?
Speaker 8 (36:04):
I mean I remember the first sessions. Yeah, but I
don't know what records they.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Were now, But you did a lot of session work yeah,
early on.
Speaker 8 (36:11):
Yeah, I mean we did an album with Jewels, and
then I went on to play for Gary Newman. They
were some of the first sessions sort of where people
heard me playing on records, and it's sort of it
was a sound that, at the times sort of fretless
sound on that electronic music. Yeah, was catching people's ears,
(36:33):
I think, and so that led to where I am today.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Really wow, Yeah, I was going to ask how that happened.
Speaker 8 (36:40):
Yeah, it's long, it's really long.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
It's so unique though, you know, it's so you.
Speaker 8 (36:45):
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, it's beautiful. Can you tell me about the space.
Speaker 8 (36:53):
Yeah, this is it's made by Rob Allen. It's like
a hollow body. It's got a pizo pickup on it
or is it piazzo pickup, I don't know. Yeah, and
it's got a it's tuned like a Bassic except it's
got a high Sea on it. So for that piece,
we just played it just It just means I can
(37:14):
get the notes. I won't higher up easier, We're not
stretching all over the place. Yeah. And we put this
mute on it, which is made by nord Strand, and
it just sort of mutes the strings a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yeah, it's the best.
Speaker 8 (37:30):
Yeah, and I'm really just trying to get that pizzicato
sound out of it for that piece.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, it's beautiful. And what is this blake?
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
This is crazy? What are you playing here? It's like
a fretless guitar.
Speaker 6 (37:44):
Yeah, it's a fretless, fretless baritone guitar with a Susiniac
pickup in it. So that's just like a if anybody
that knows what an Ebo is it's just that for
all the strings all the time.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
Cool?
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Okay, I actually know what EBO is. Surprised at myself.
Speaker 6 (38:04):
Yeah, okay, Yeah. Ebo has been around for I think
since there's the seventies. There might be some that came out,
some version of the Ebo.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
And tronic slide.
Speaker 6 (38:14):
Maybe it's it's more like for the picking hand, so
you hold it against the string.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Oh, I think I thought it was for the other
and it.
Speaker 6 (38:21):
Activates the string. It's a lot like having a bow,
you know, for a guitarist, at least ebo.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (38:32):
Yeah, So with the sustainiac, you know, it's just kind
of it's that concept basically, but applied across all the strings,
and so you can get a lot of interesting sort
of swelling into a note type sounds with it. And
(38:52):
I've had it for five or six years or so,
and I've used it for so many different things. Really
it's had different sounds.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Well that's what's so interesting about it, because when I
was listening to your record, the sounds are just so different.
I mean, it doesn't even sound.
Speaker 6 (39:08):
Like a guitar.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
It sounds like I don't know what it sounds like,
but it sounds earthy, it doesn't sound electronic.
Speaker 6 (39:16):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's some of that in there,
but it's it's interesting having now once the record is
out and getting feedback on what something sound like to
other people. Yeah, a lot of the things that that
sound like woodwinds are on guitar, and the things that
Sam are saxophone player is doing on the record, that's
(39:40):
he's playing a wind controller and he's doing you know,
harp and synthesizers. And it's just like everybody's sort of
modular in there their roles, you know, and how they
play their instruments, and we we probably all share a
little of the sensibility of being frustrated with the limitations
(40:03):
of what we play can do instrument wise.
Speaker 8 (40:08):
I know, like.
Speaker 14 (40:11):
I I.
Speaker 6 (40:13):
Covet certain voicings that you know, you can play on
that that you just can't get without some you know,
without going into carpal.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Tunnel territory or alternate tuning exactly.
Speaker 7 (40:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (40:25):
So so there's just always things that once you become
familiar with your instrument, you recognize that it can't do
easily and you you sort of catalog that and some
of those I think we've been on a missions as
musicians to try to coax a little bit out of
our instruments, because that's a lot easier than actually learning
(40:49):
how to play a piano.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
No, and it's also fun because you're changing it in
a way that is different from, you know, a typical
guitar sound or yeah.
Speaker 6 (40:59):
Yeah, do you ever do prepared piano stuff?
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I like putting tape on it? Yeah, I like that.
I've done that a little bit.
Speaker 6 (41:05):
Yeah, fun.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
I haven't done it live. It would be fun live, yeah,
but you know, I'm like, wait a second, get the
tape out. I'm sure. I'm sure you can get a contraption.
I'm just kind of lazy in that way.
Speaker 6 (41:20):
But just take like you know, your kid's old toy band, Yeah,
and just dump it in there.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Just have a beater, yeah, I'm sure that.
Speaker 6 (41:26):
Yeah, the house piano will love that.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
I should do that to that piano there, that little
tom thumb. That would sound good that way.
Speaker 7 (41:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Actually, my favorite piano in my house up there has
a mute. Yeah, but it's built in. It's just that
kind of and we just love the mute.
Speaker 6 (41:44):
Yeah, it's the prettiest, quite a sound. It's fun to
sing against.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
That easier, way easier. Yeah, it's nice and nice house piano.
Do you ever play Indian music because of the fretless nature,
I'm just we were talking about yeah, all.
Speaker 6 (41:59):
Them, Yeah, yeah, I mean I would say there are
times where I'm hearing Indian music and I'm trying to
sort of like, you know, visit that that place a
little bit. I was doing that a lot more, I
think when I was playing slide yeah, and on fretless
(42:26):
on this instrument, it feels like the sound I'm hearing
in my head right now is a little bit more
like a woodwind player.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
That's what it sounds like.
Speaker 6 (42:36):
Something about the vibrato on on this, like the pressure
sensitivity to it gives this like like wind.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
There's there's a lot of air in it.
Speaker 9 (42:46):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
It's beautiful.
Speaker 6 (42:47):
Thanks, It's so fun to play. It's really been. It's
just been a treat. How much of our set is
on this guitar each night. It's really it's growing.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
It's great toys playing with You're playing with awesome toys.
Speaker 8 (43:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (43:07):
When are you going to put the the little pitch
wheel on this? Oh my gosh, this old gal so
you have.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
A little that'd be fun you know, in high school,
I went to Performing Arts High School in Dallas, and
I had a synthesis class. So we played synthesizers in class.
And all the guys in my class were incredible, really
amazing musicians, and they all knew how to do the
pitch bend, and I remember they were teaching me how
to do it and I could not. I think he
(43:36):
took the part away from me actually because I couldn't
do it right.
Speaker 6 (43:39):
Pitch bend on a synthesizer, yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
A d X seven, you know, like we and some
of the guys were playing a mug mog minimg. Do
you say mug or mug? I think it's it's it is, okay.
Speaker 6 (43:52):
Now I know that one. That one we've we've proven, okay, Yeah,
that that's a that's a that's like yeah, it's sort
of the keyboardist way of signing guitar ish.
Speaker 7 (44:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Yeah, it's like our our toy.
Speaker 8 (44:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah. I'm not very good at I'm not very patient
with gear and trying to fiddle with sounds. But if
it's there and I can play it, you can't not.
It's so fun. Can't Yeah, I mean I can't. I
can't stop yeah, it's pretty fun. Yeah, maybe someday I'll
tour with.
Speaker 6 (44:30):
I think, like we're exploring this stuff and having so
much fun with it, and I can also see us,
you know, a year from now, just like let's leave
that ship at home. Oh yeah, straight in. You know,
it does records.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
When one sets the other up, the pendulum swings and
when you're tired of it, well, it doesn't matter because
you can play either way.
Speaker 6 (44:55):
Right hopefully Yeah some nights. Yeah, yeah, like to think.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
So, yeah, I definitely think.
Speaker 13 (45:03):
So.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
You've been doing sessions since you were a kid, right.
Speaker 6 (45:06):
Yeah, I've been doing sessions since I was well, I guess,
and yeah, my late teens.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
That's wild sessions in LA.
Speaker 6 (45:13):
That's so cool. I think part of that is having
grown up in Los Angeles, Yeah, you know, being where
a lot of recording sessions are happening and got thrown
into it pretty early on. Yeah, but I love, I
still love the the framework of working on such a
variety of music over the course of a year. It's
(45:37):
really different from being a recording artist, where you have
a record cycle, you know, and you've got an album
that you're supporting, and you can be playing a group
of songs for a year or two as a session
player or producer. To be working for anywhere from a
day to a few months on such a body work
(46:01):
and then the slate is cleared and you go somewhere
else entirely. That was really good for me, you know,
that kind of variety. I still enjoyed that aspect of
spending most of my time in the studio.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Yeah, I mean it's a special place to be. You
guys have the sweet spots where you get to dip
in and then do your own thing, and absolutely, you knowlege,
it's pretty cool. It's an honor to have here. Oh,
thank you so much. Yeah, I love you guys. We
got to play together on that record my forever Ago. Yeah, god,
(46:38):
that was like two thousand Little Broken Hearts. It was
like twenty ten maybe, yeah.
Speaker 6 (46:42):
And I want to say and remind you what studio
we were working with.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
I can't remember what it was called. I've never been
there again. It was like a big warehouse. Yeah, it
didn't feel like a like a proper studio. Yeah, I
could check, I could check the credit.
Speaker 6 (47:00):
It was long, Yeah, it was a long, long time ago,
felt like a former life.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Well it's fifteen years ago. I guess, I guess it was.
Speaker 6 (47:10):
Some things that happened fifteen years ago don't feel as
long ago as others.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
I know, I know what you mean. Yeah, but yeah
that was it was like two days, but three days.
Speaker 6 (47:21):
It was fun. Yeah, it's a cool record.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Now we got to make a record together, Pino, let's
do it playing around. So I like to usually end
these episodes with a like a cover or just something
kind of a wild card. And I love it when
someone else suggests something that I've never heard of, And
you have suggested this incredible song that I'm really excited about.
Speaker 6 (47:45):
I'm so glad. I'm excited too.
Speaker 8 (47:48):
Well.
Speaker 6 (47:48):
I threw it out there because John Martin is someone
who's been coming up recently as we've been doing some
press for our record. Heard uh the question of like,
you know, what are your what are you listening to
right now? And so that comes up a lot, and
(48:09):
and one of the one of our sort of I
think our common influences or artists that we love is
uh with the records by this guy John Martin.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
I I this is my first time hearing him. Yeah
he's or maybe it's not, but I you know, I
don't know.
Speaker 6 (48:31):
May you so called.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Maybe I've heard that one.
Speaker 6 (48:33):
Yeah, that was kind of his hit.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Yeah, well I love this when you said it's just
such a good song, you know, when you put something
on and it's just like the lyrics and everything, it's all.
Speaker 6 (48:47):
The right spot. Yeah, it's so we've never played this before.
It's going to be.
Speaker 8 (48:56):
Huge. Friend, I didn't know that song.
Speaker 6 (48:58):
Yeah, it's from Yeah, a little bit of a later record.
It's not it's not in the prime of of the
stuff that he's known for, but it's this really, it's
a it's a great record, and he made it. I
think I came up. I came to know it because
Phil Brown, the engineer was was the engineer on this album.
(49:22):
Phil had done the final two Talk Talk records and
the Mark Hollis record. Those were really big for me
around the pandemic, you know that time and and and
I thought they were just so beautifully recorded that I
I picked up Phil's book and and learned about a
bunch of stuff that he did. In one of them
was this John Martin record. That's how I came I
(49:46):
think that's kind of how I came into John Martin
really appreciating his albums. Then went back from there.
Speaker 9 (50:32):
Some of us live like Princess, and some of us
sleeve like we. Most of us live just like me.
We don't know what a means.
Speaker 15 (50:53):
To take our place in the world, to make up peace,
the word, to make up.
Speaker 14 (51:05):
Way, one word, to have us saying one word. If
you ain't got to to say that, I'd care talk
to you.
Speaker 7 (51:27):
No use card.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
There's been no card I say.
Speaker 9 (51:32):
It's just the way the wind blows, just.
Speaker 11 (51:37):
The name of the game, the way the world, the
way the world. It's just the way word, just the way,
the word.
Speaker 10 (52:01):
So coling lonly coling, lonely, coing loly. It's so cold
and lonely world, colding loly, colding loly.
Speaker 16 (52:31):
It's just a cold, holy world where world believe you
(53:55):
or not.
Speaker 5 (53:57):
One word.
Speaker 7 (54:00):
You do not.
Speaker 5 (54:02):
Work world.
Speaker 9 (54:14):
Some of us live like Princess, and some of us
live like Queen.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
Most of us just live like me, and we don't
know what it means.
Speaker 15 (54:34):
To make our place in the world, take our place
in one word, make our line, make our way in
one world.
Speaker 7 (55:13):
After that was fun. It's a fun song.
Speaker 6 (56:15):
Like the sour tuning.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
This is really fun. It is thank you for coming,
Thank you for Blake and Pino. I am honored to
have you here. More please, thank you more please.
Speaker 6 (56:29):
I wanted to have you here in your house as well.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
Thank you for bringing all your stuff. You're cool.
Speaker 6 (56:37):
We just happened to have it.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
Yeah, lucky me.
Speaker 7 (56:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (56:41):
Yeah, we can't wait to listen back to some of this.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
Yeah, it's going to be cool and do more.
Speaker 8 (56:47):
Yeah, we'll come back with one string instrument.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
That's fine, whatever you want. I won't make music out
of anything.
Speaker 6 (56:53):
The three of us will sit at a long piano bench.
One piano.
Speaker 15 (56:56):
One.
Speaker 6 (56:57):
Yay, we did one. Thank you, Thank you, pure, Thanks
you guys.
Speaker 1 (57:04):
Oh yay.
Speaker 6 (57:04):
That was fun.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
That was amazing. Yeah, they're so awesome. They make it
seem so easy. Well, and I was so nervous about
this one because the music was so hard and they're
such heavy weights, you know, but they did. They're just
easy to hang with and sweet, so easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it was great. I loved this episode. I love doing these.
This is a fun show to do. I just have
(57:26):
to say that. Yeah. Yeah, I get to meet and
hang I mean I've met both of them before, I've
worked with Blake before. Yeah, but to just see people
and yeah, do this, it's I Think they have fun too.
I think they do. If you want to know what
songs we played on this episode, the first song was
called Contour and it was from the album That Wasn't
(57:49):
a Dream written by Blake Mills and Pani Paladin and
Chris Weisman. That album was released in twenty twenty five.
The second song was called What Is Wrong with You
Album and written by Blake and Pino. And the third
song we did was a John Martin song from his
album One World, which was released in nineteen seventy seven,
(58:11):
and the song was called One World That was a
fun one to learn. Special thanks to Blake Mills and
Pino Palladino for joining us today, and we'll be back
next week with Mike Campbell. Norah Jones as Playing Along
is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Visit Nora Jones channel
and be sure to subscribe while you're there. I'm your host,
Norah Jones. This episode was recorded by Matt Marinelli, mixed
(58:32):
by Jamie Landry, Audio post production and mastering by Greg Tobler,
artwork by Eliza Fry, Photography by Sherevin Lenez. Produced by
Nora Jones and Sarah Oda executive producers Aaron Wan Kaufman
and Jordan runtalg marketing lead Alison Kantra Graber. Thanks for
joining US.
This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You
can visit Nora Jones channel and be sure to subscribe
while you're there. Hey, I'm Nora Jones and today I'm
playing along with Blake Mills and Pino Palladino.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm just playing.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I'm just playing lone Weezy. Hey, I'm Nora and this
is Sarah Oda. Hi, welcome to the show. Oh. Today,
we have a really fun show for you. We have
Blake Mills and Pino Palladino.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Yes, the two deeply admired musicians who are known for
shaping a whole range of records. Blake is a singer, songwriter, guitarist, producer.
He's known for his inventive playing and all his studio work,
and Pino is a legendary bassist whose sound is makes
(00:54):
him one of the most sought after bass players in
the world.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yeah, they've both played on so many class records and
it was a thrill to play with them. It was
also super hard. This was the hardest music I think
I've been thrown. I feel like you had some homework. Yeah,
but it was so fun. I love these songs. They're
beautiful and we caught them when they were on tour
playing songs from their new album That Wasn't a Dream,
(01:21):
And we played some songs from this album. It was
really fun.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yeah, and you talk a little bit about each of
their musical backgrounds and their creative processes and also how
they kind of came together, which is really cool.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
They also brought the most gear of anyone because they
were on tour and they had all their gear and
they all they both have, especially Blake, he has interesting
sounds and specific gear that he uses and weird guitars.
It's a real good guitar. That's his episode. It's magic, superpowerful. Yeah,
he's got some cool stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, and it's fun to have the rare trio in
this room in our studio.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So it was really fun. Please enjoy the episode with Blake,
Mills and Pani Paladino.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Going doing.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
At the mo A becusing.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Well that is very yummy. Really, it's really pretty too,
so good.
Speaker 6 (05:22):
It's so good to play music.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
It does, doesn't it.
Speaker 7 (05:28):
Is?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, that's why I do this, That's why I play music. Yeah,
what are you playing?
Speaker 5 (05:35):
What is? This?
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Contraption is a.
Speaker 6 (05:37):
Guitar built by a luthier named Rolf Spueller. He was
no longer with us, but he he was an instrument maker,
and as I understand it, his goal with this was
to try to make like the best sounding acoustic plugged
(05:59):
in acut stick guitar.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Oh wow, like.
Speaker 6 (06:04):
Uh, something that you could use on a stage and
and like turn up and it still sounds believable. I
mean the way that I'm using it with this music,
you're not really hearing much of the guitar itself. It's
sort of like the you know, the modeling things. But
but yeah, as a just plugging it straight into a
d I, it's a really remarkable really.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, so it has an acoustic sound totally. Is there
a way to show us or do you have to
unplug stuff?
Speaker 5 (06:31):
No?
Speaker 6 (06:31):
I mean there is a curious there is a way.
Speaker 8 (06:33):
There's not much sound comes from the body though.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
There's a little chamber in there, which is why it sounds.
Speaker 9 (06:39):
But the way that the way that.
Speaker 6 (06:42):
It's bill is definitely let's see what do I have here?
Speaker 8 (06:46):
So it's such a beautiful, it's so pretty, so great
to play.
Speaker 6 (06:52):
So it's like, so you have like a pizo that
you can blend with a microphone, So there's definitely a
mic and so.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
So you can kind of do anything with it pretty much. Yeah,
are you allergic to d I acoustic sounds?
Speaker 6 (07:14):
No not, It's not as hard for me because I
don't play with a pick.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, that makes it worse.
Speaker 7 (07:21):
So, like the.
Speaker 6 (07:22):
Pizo pickup is something I find really useful. But I
I think I know what you're talking about, and yeah,
you know, when I'm alongside it, it's pretty hard.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, that kind of it's hard to hear.
Speaker 6 (07:36):
Yeah, it's it's like you're inside of the bad dream
of what a guitar sounds like.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's hard to get a good a good one,
you know. So that's a good.
Speaker 6 (07:50):
You know, they're they're rare, you know. So it's it's
it's not a good, good solution for for very many people,
but yeah, it's it's a special instrument. I bought this
from our are one of our cohorts, Sam Gondel, who's
a saxophone player but is very on the up and
up when it comes to cool equipment. And I think,
you know the fact that we're showing up with like
(08:12):
boss chip tens and hexaphonic pickups, that's definitely his impact
on yeah, on us. Yeah, sometimes you get like gear
envy right when when we're playing with Sam and he
rolls on under the plane, he's got his entire setup
is just like this little like you know, Japanese's just
(08:35):
one of those. It's like it's got his entire setup
is in a trapper keeper, you know, and we're we're
cruising around with like guitar lockers and just thinking, you know,
next time it's going to be no gear. So so
this is actually kind of a downsizing for for us.
Speaker 10 (08:51):
You know.
Speaker 6 (08:51):
Yeah, we're rolling into this with with with sort of
a fussy setup. But for us it's great not traveling
with like pedal boards and things like that.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So it's still still less.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
Yeah, less for me, more for.
Speaker 8 (09:04):
You, Yeah, actually a little more for me.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 8 (09:06):
I normally just sticked one instrument if I can too,
but usually just bass.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
So yeah, but you're playing guitar.
Speaker 8 (09:12):
I'm playing a bit of guitar too, so yeah, it's
definitely a little bit different. But that's so fun for you, right,
I think I start Yeah, absolutely, I love it, and
I think I've started to make guitar faces too. I
don't know how to explain that, Isn't it weird?
Speaker 6 (09:27):
Are you telling a story like you're talking with the
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (09:31):
I'm just nowthing less in control of my face when
I'm playing guitar.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
Yeah, yeah, I suppose it's it's convenient that you wear
hats so often. Yeah, I had some glasses. I'm catching up,
always catching you.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
How's your guitar face?
Speaker 6 (09:49):
I look petrified. I think that's my style. It's just
like a deer in a headlights is what I'm going for.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
It's hard to control that.
Speaker 6 (10:01):
Yeah, I just let it. You know, the face makes me.
I don't make the face, that's how Yeah, well it's
pretty deep. Yeah, the face. If the the face mas
face makes you, first, shame on you, that's right. I think.
(10:23):
I think part of part of what gets me out
of hot water as a guitarist is that I sit
so often when I play. I think it neutralizes a
lot of weird energy that makes makes you do bad
things as a guitarist. Why do you say, Well, partly
for that reason, part but partly because I don't know.
(10:47):
I find that the the ergonomics of it are are
a lot easier when you you've got the ability to
balance it and move it, and you know you can
sometimes depending on the tune, like this. The stretch is
kind of unusual. And when I do that with a strap,
it's just it's inevitably sitting in this way that I've
(11:09):
got to do something that's more painful.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
It almost feels like you're unanchored.
Speaker 6 (11:15):
Yeah, yeah, totally. And unless the strap is.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Like you know, up here, then you'd be one of
those really high guitar I'm like that. I play really
high guitar, yeah, where it's just like in my art basically,
and I'm in a band where we switch guitars because
we're too lazy to bring a ton of gear. We
just share the guitar and they always have to make it. Yeah,
but I also sit very high at the piano.
Speaker 6 (11:41):
So yeah, did you develop that out of like habit
was it like you know, time you sat where you learned?
Speaker 1 (11:50):
It was on a I think I'm just short and
I have a high waist, so I'm just I don't
have a lot of body. And I remember I used
to do gigs in New York and I'd always ask
for the phone book to sit on it. Then they
start making phone books. But it's okay, I got a
piano tech at that's that's great. But yeah, I sit
weirdly high.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
So we were talking the other night about organists who
play the pedals. Oh yeah, and not only how incredible
that is to watch somebody do and here's somebody do,
but also thinking about the ergonomics of that, where like
you're constantly doing like leg lifts sitting down and you
(12:29):
no longer have presumably, I mean I don't know how
to do it, but from what I can tell, like
you don't have that stability, you know, you know, you're
you're tapping your foot against the floor and.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
You're not wearing shoes. They're usually in socks. Yeah right,
and oh yeah that would be weird.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Yeah, you might have the body type for it, though,
like you've got you've got the legs, You've already got legs. Yeah,
the posture, you know, situated.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
I don't know if I have it in me.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
We got to get you a set of pedals down.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
We have a set of pedals.
Speaker 6 (13:01):
Let's fire my up.
Speaker 7 (13:02):
Yeah, no, we have them all.
Speaker 6 (13:03):
Let's get you up there.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah. My husband's a really good organ player. He can't
like go fast on the pedals, but he's Yeah, it's.
Speaker 6 (13:10):
It's like watching somebody, you know, walk on a hammock
or something.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, it's sort of getting lost, right, It's not really
very common, just insane. Well, he was telling me that
a lot of people, like, didn't Jimmy Smith do his
left hand? He didn't do pedals?
Speaker 8 (13:27):
Yeah, I think maybe sometimes it's a combination too.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah, combination. Yeah, it depends on how fast it is.
Speaker 6 (13:34):
I guess cheating in there.
Speaker 8 (13:36):
Yeah, but what a great sound.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Who cares?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
He was amazing.
Speaker 8 (13:40):
Yeah, I try and make that sound.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
I know.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Organ is so cool. Yeah. How long have you guys
known each other?
Speaker 8 (13:48):
Since?
Speaker 6 (13:50):
About ten years or something?
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Oh, that's it?
Speaker 8 (13:52):
Yeah, twenty sixteen, I think, okay, maybe fifteen.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
How did you meet?
Speaker 8 (13:57):
Well, we met because Blake was producing an album and
invited me and Chris Dave to be the room section.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Wow, that's a good idea.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
Yeah, I was really reached too far for that.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
What album was that?
Speaker 6 (14:12):
It was John Legends Darkness and Light. That's beautiful and yeah,
one of the ideas was to just have a live
rhythm section, uh for all the songs. And that was
the first project I was a part of that that
I had a chance to work with these guys on it.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
That's so great.
Speaker 6 (14:30):
And during that record Pino mentioned that he'd been working
on some of his own material, and we had a
promotional show I think here in New York in Brooklyn,
and after the show, Pino took me to a studio
(14:51):
and played me one of the songs that he had
been working on and it was phenomenal and it was
I play. I had a few things on it, And
then for about six months was just texting him NonStop, like,
you know, when kind of hear that again and yeah,
you know, how did that turn out? And and and
(15:14):
and at one point you were in la We opened
up the song again and we started to explore, you know,
other places that it could go and arrangement ideas, and
and after doing that with a few more compositions of Pinos,
we we realized that we were working on something that
felt like an album.
Speaker 8 (15:35):
Yeah, and also something that was to me felt like
a collaboration, because at first didn't kind of stop off
that way, but it was, it was It became obvious
pretty quickly, Yeah this should.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Be that's great. Yeah, and is this your third album together?
Speaker 6 (15:51):
Second?
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Second, second, okay, wow, And it's so different. It's so
different from anything I feel like, and it's so sonically
rich and and weird and beautiful and I don't know,
it just must be so fun because you both play
(16:11):
with like so many people to just have this weird,
special thing that you're doing together.
Speaker 8 (16:18):
Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 6 (16:20):
Yeah, I think we I think we were kind of
tickled by the the unusual choices in music, you know,
not just our own, but you know, just in general
as listeners. That's yeah, that's what we gravitate towards some balance,
you know, presence of that alongside things that are you know,
(16:42):
maybe more traditionally rewarding. And that's a cool that's a
cool line to to try to follow you through different projects.
I think that that's relevant to no matter what kind
of music it is. That's a that's a relevant recipe
I think for Yeah. Six, so.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Just do what moves you.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Weirdness if it's if it's out of the norm and
it moves you, then follow it.
Speaker 8 (17:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (17:13):
Yeah, it's beautiful. You were thinking about how many things
were out of the norm before they became the norm.
That's true too, Like, yeah, you know, accessible music in
so many cases wasn't at one point when it came out.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
That's true.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
It was unusual and only through its sort of popularity,
or like hearing non musicians sing h Gary Rafferty right
down the line. Yeah, seeing all those modulations at karaoke. Yeah,
but they know them, they know them, And how many
modulations happen in red a Chili Pepper's hits.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
That's right. I never thought about that.
Speaker 6 (17:54):
It's yes, totally strange music, very strange on paper, Investigator.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
It's always why I liked it.
Speaker 8 (18:01):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
I mean, so with this program, you're doing a lot
of unfamiliar music.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, I mean part of the fun part is doing
things that are out of my own wheelhouse. And sometimes
people come in with songs that I can learn very quickly.
And then today, for instance, I was like cramming and
also nervous, but also I know you're safe people, and
it's going to be okay. Once we're in the room.
(18:29):
It always feels like we're making music and it's not
a big deal. But I was like, what is that core?
Speaker 11 (18:36):
You know?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
But so it's it's really good for me though, you know,
I think learning other material always informs something down the
line that you're going to spit out right, So totally
opens to Yeah, it's not why I decided to do this,
but it's been the upside. It's been one of the
many upsides to it. Yeah, just having to kind of
(18:58):
sharpen my tools a little, which is good for me
at this point. Yeah, move it or lose it. Yeah,
it's like a nice way to play music without traveling,
you know.
Speaker 6 (19:13):
Yeah, that's that's important.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Even though I love to travel. It's like nice to
cut back a little.
Speaker 6 (19:18):
Yeah. Yeah, so we're with you.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Thanks for coming, and you have a show tonight, so
I don't want to we have a show.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
We have a show tomorrow. We have a show tomorrow. Okay, Yeah, cool,
we're happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Oh good, you're not like going straight to soundcheck.
Speaker 8 (19:33):
Great, you can't get rid of this quickly.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
That's great.
Speaker 6 (19:37):
You don't have to play the next one at double speed.
Speaker 8 (19:40):
Right after all?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Good, because I don't think I could play it.
Speaker 8 (19:46):
I did.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I did something with Brandy Younger last week and the
Harp Heart Heart Player, and she had a couple of
tunes that I was like, wait a second, and then
she she's like, I had charts I could have sent you,
And I was like, I didn't even think to ask that.
But it's probably better for me to learn it on
my own, you know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (20:05):
I didn't know what your background was and if having
a chart would would be helpful or Yeah, I don't read.
You don't know really, No, I mean I can. It's
sort of like reading a book upside down or something like.
I can kind of, I'll meet you there, but I don't.
I certainly can't sight read. I can read a chord chart,
but a lot of our music doesn't have chords.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Well that's why. Yeah, that's why I was it's funny.
You sent me this YouTube of the next song we're
going to play YEA and the guy had written a chart,
which is great. But I don't know if you watched it.
He just was close up on each measure as the
song went on, and I was so frustrated. Yeah, I
(20:48):
couldn't take a picture of me. But thank god he
did it. Anyway, I'm thankful for it. But it was
pretty funny.
Speaker 6 (20:54):
He's a friend. Yeah I should have. I should have
seen it if there was like a pdf.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
No, it's it was funny. I was like, that makes sense. Otherwise,
nobody's gonna watch the whole video. They're just gonna take
a screenshot. I get it, but it was funny.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
I texted with him this morning and he lives in
Germany and he's playing that song. That's so cool I
think right now, like as a solo piano piece. Oh
that's beautiful. Well, I love this song.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Let's let's dive in.
Speaker 9 (21:40):
Wow Linsen muscou.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
A fun.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
And every day is great. Clowns just float on.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
M hm.
Speaker 12 (22:11):
I look for your face. You are not a fool ah,
can't see what you do?
Speaker 5 (22:32):
What is wrong with me?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Look into my tell me what you see, tell me
(23:10):
to be?
Speaker 9 (23:13):
Was frong with me?
Speaker 13 (23:24):
What a strong with the.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
Studiunier games, school, still.
Speaker 13 (24:38):
School, compos.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Well, we've all been doing this long enough to know
(27:10):
when you feel really good about something and also the
specific things you want to catch along the way.
Speaker 6 (27:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Something that helped me recently was thinking about it like
an abstract painting, as long as the shape is there
and you can hear what's going on. Phil, No, it's
a song. It's like this thing I've been doing to
stop myself from overdoing it. It's funny.
Speaker 6 (27:34):
That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
YEA.
Speaker 8 (27:36):
The essence of the song, it's the essence of ingredients
that you want to put the emotion.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, I work with Leon Michaels. Do you know him.
He's a producer. He also has a band called El
Michael's Affair. But he we work a lot digitally, but
he always erasist stuff. I'm like, wait, I had it
like seven seven vocals ago. He's like, well that's on.
I'm like wait a second. But it's almost like he
(28:03):
pretends that he's on tape and he'll so it keeps
him from having too much stuff. That's pretty great.
Speaker 6 (28:09):
That is great. Yeah, I think it does, you know,
especially if if it becomes part of the conversation and
part of the process too. Are you sure you want
to do another one, because yeah, it means we're going
to lose you want to listen?
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yeah, no, he doesn't do that. That's a cool part
to take for then it's just you listen more exactly.
Speaker 6 (28:28):
Listen back more like with digitally, you just kind of
you wait to do all that later exactly. Yeah. I
questioned too, whether we as the the party responsible for
the making of the the thing, if we are always
the best arbiters of what is important to capture, you know,
(28:54):
like what's important to achieve because our perspectives are considering
so many things about the music that in many cases
aren't going to be part of the listener's experience or
or or yes, their connotation.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
But I think we're the creators, So I think it's
I think we can do what we want. We can
do We can absolutely do anything the important stuff that
we think is important. Yeah, you know, I think so,
But I know what you mean.
Speaker 6 (29:25):
Like, for example, you know, how have you ever been
in that situation where you're you're working on a mix
of a vocal blend and that part of your intention
is I want to make sure that the melody, the
thing I wrote and think of as the melody you know,
hierarchically is placed and that the subservient harmonies are understood
(29:48):
as such. And so you you know, you you finesse
this blend of this thing right, and at the end
of the day, what people are going to hear and
latch onto. It's like, what's what is the melody of
Sweet Judy Blue Eyes? Who's seeing the melody on those
Cross Pistols and Nash records? Like a lot of times,
Graham Nash's part is the thing that pops back into
(30:11):
your head. You know, It's sort of like the stratosphere yeah,
the high so so in trying to control the experience
somebody's going to have and listening to it, even if
you have all the money and time in the world
to get it perfect, you don't have that control ultimately,
Like it's it's its own thing, and that's the that's
sort of that's my version of letting go in the studio,
(30:36):
Like when you're describing with the painting, it's just reminding
myself that, like it's I'm going to hear this differently
in two years as well.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
The time the time thing is really key. I think
taking space and then coming back to listen to something
and then realizing, oh, that's so cool. I can't remember
what happened with that. Yeah, you know, like wait, so
it sounds.
Speaker 8 (31:00):
Fresh to you.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 8 (31:02):
But I mean, don't you both think that playing and
listening while you're playing is very different to going in
and listening to what you've just performed completely. It's if
we could do both perfectly, then it would be easy,
I know.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
And because you're so different, you're focused on getting it right. Also,
I mean the best is when you can forget about
what you're doing and just be in it, of course,
but when you're recording, usually you're learning a song or
you're trying to get the right part, and you're kind
of thinking a little well, there's.
Speaker 8 (31:35):
A responsibility exactly for the music.
Speaker 6 (31:37):
Yeah, totally. These things also have a point of view too.
You do your performance, but then you're going back and
you're listening to it, you know, a translation of it, yeah,
in the recording. Yeah, so yeah, it has to. I
think the painting analogy or some sort of a two
dimensional framework is a really good one for recorded music
(31:59):
because it it doesn't end up coming back at you
out of like you know, two speakers.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Or as one kind of weird.
Speaker 6 (32:09):
Yeah, it's like a version of reality.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
It's not reality.
Speaker 6 (32:12):
It's not exactly you know, it's not what's happening in
the room. No matter how good the recording is. It's
just a different medium. Yeah, but it's it's fun. It's
it's cool when you can you know, when you're standing
in front of a painting that looks life like or
even you know, something more than life like.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah, you want not lifelike. I don't as a as
a as an art viewer, I like a painting that's
sort of alluding to something. But of course music is different.
But yeah, anyway, it's interesting. I don't know, you've played
on so many records, both of you. I mean, you
(32:53):
must have gone through so many different types of processes
with people. Or do you feel like you're usually drawn
to similar like same like goes with like or do
you feel like you've just been you've seen a lot
of really different ways of working.
Speaker 6 (33:12):
Yeah, I feel like that's for sure.
Speaker 8 (33:15):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (33:16):
I think you just have to adapt exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
And it's not that one's better or that one gets
a better result necessarily.
Speaker 8 (33:25):
It's really just finding a way of putting what you
have into the music onto the music so that so
that you know it's it's right, it feels good. Yeah,
so many different ways of getting that.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
I know.
Speaker 8 (33:39):
Yeah, I don't know the secret.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
I know, Well that's the that's the the elusive magic dust.
Speaker 5 (33:45):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 6 (33:49):
I think I've had I've been in situations where I've thought, like, it's,
you know, are we making this harder for ourselves than
we need to?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (33:58):
And in many case as I think we probably are. Like,
it doesn't have to be as difficult as it sometimes feels,
but it also doesn't have to not be work hard work,
Like you know this idea that you go in and
you know when you're making a record, the most important
thing is that we just all go in and have fun.
Is like that is the most important.
Speaker 14 (34:21):
Thing some people.
Speaker 8 (34:22):
Yeah, you have to go past that.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Yes, it's not what it's all about. It's like, at
the end of the day, I think you still have
a responsibility to yourself to try to make the best
record you can make and that that should take a
little bit of heavy lifting at times.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
It definitely it means you have to do another one
all the time.
Speaker 6 (34:47):
Yeah, they kind of they set up, They set themselves
up a little bit, don't they. Like once you once
you finish, you finished the album, then you kind of
go like, all right, I don't ever want to do
any of that again next time, you know, naxt time.
We're going to Barbados, Right, We're just going to do
it one day.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, Well, you've done those before and they can be fun.
Speaker 6 (35:08):
It just depends.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
You grew up in Wales. Yeah, yeah, And when did
you come to the States or did you start touring first?
Speaker 8 (35:19):
Yeah, first toured in the States with Jules Holland actually
really yeah, Okay, it's in the band with Jewels.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
That's so cool.
Speaker 8 (35:25):
It was like nineteen eighty one, I think, and toured
over here with Paul Young in the eighties too, and
then started doing studio work and gradually ended up spending
a lot of time in America, and eventually in twenty sixteen,
I moved out here permanently.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
In twenty sixteen only okay, yeah, wow, you're like, all right,
I'll finally take the punch. Yeah, twenty sixteen. Funny year
to move here.
Speaker 8 (35:53):
Yeah, if I think about it, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Do you remember the first record you played on?
Speaker 5 (36:03):
Wow?
Speaker 8 (36:04):
I mean I remember the first sessions. Yeah, but I
don't know what records they.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Were now, But you did a lot of session work yeah,
early on.
Speaker 8 (36:11):
Yeah, I mean we did an album with Jewels, and
then I went on to play for Gary Newman. They
were some of the first sessions sort of where people
heard me playing on records, and it's sort of it
was a sound that, at the times sort of fretless
sound on that electronic music. Yeah, was catching people's ears,
(36:33):
I think, and so that led to where I am today.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Really wow, Yeah, I was going to ask how that happened.
Speaker 8 (36:40):
Yeah, it's long, it's really long.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
It's so unique though, you know, it's so you.
Speaker 8 (36:45):
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, it's beautiful. Can you tell me about the space.
Speaker 8 (36:53):
Yeah, this is it's made by Rob Allen. It's like
a hollow body. It's got a pizo pickup on it
or is it piazzo pickup, I don't know. Yeah, and
it's got a it's tuned like a Bassic except it's
got a high Sea on it. So for that piece,
we just played it just It just means I can
(37:14):
get the notes. I won't higher up easier, We're not
stretching all over the place. Yeah. And we put this
mute on it, which is made by nord Strand, and
it just sort of mutes the strings a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yeah, it's the best.
Speaker 8 (37:30):
Yeah, and I'm really just trying to get that pizzicato
sound out of it for that piece.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, it's beautiful. And what is this blake?
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
This is crazy? What are you playing here? It's like
a fretless guitar.
Speaker 6 (37:44):
Yeah, it's a fretless, fretless baritone guitar with a Susiniac
pickup in it. So that's just like a if anybody
that knows what an Ebo is it's just that for
all the strings all the time.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
Cool?
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Okay, I actually know what EBO is. Surprised at myself.
Speaker 6 (38:04):
Yeah, okay, Yeah. Ebo has been around for I think
since there's the seventies. There might be some that came out,
some version of the Ebo.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
And tronic slide.
Speaker 6 (38:14):
Maybe it's it's more like for the picking hand, so
you hold it against the string.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Oh, I think I thought it was for the other
and it.
Speaker 6 (38:21):
Activates the string. It's a lot like having a bow,
you know, for a guitarist, at least ebo.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (38:32):
Yeah, So with the sustainiac, you know, it's just kind
of it's that concept basically, but applied across all the strings,
and so you can get a lot of interesting sort
of swelling into a note type sounds with it. And
(38:52):
I've had it for five or six years or so,
and I've used it for so many different things. Really
it's had different sounds.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Well that's what's so interesting about it, because when I
was listening to your record, the sounds are just so different.
I mean, it doesn't even sound.
Speaker 6 (39:08):
Like a guitar.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
It sounds like I don't know what it sounds like,
but it sounds earthy, it doesn't sound electronic.
Speaker 6 (39:16):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's some of that in there,
but it's it's interesting having now once the record is
out and getting feedback on what something sound like to
other people. Yeah, a lot of the things that that
sound like woodwinds are on guitar, and the things that
Sam are saxophone player is doing on the record, that's
(39:40):
he's playing a wind controller and he's doing you know,
harp and synthesizers. And it's just like everybody's sort of
modular in there their roles, you know, and how they
play their instruments, and we we probably all share a
little of the sensibility of being frustrated with the limitations
(40:03):
of what we play can do instrument wise.
Speaker 8 (40:08):
I know, like.
Speaker 14 (40:11):
I I.
Speaker 6 (40:13):
Covet certain voicings that you know, you can play on
that that you just can't get without some you know,
without going into carpal.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Tunnel territory or alternate tuning exactly.
Speaker 7 (40:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (40:25):
So so there's just always things that once you become
familiar with your instrument, you recognize that it can't do
easily and you you sort of catalog that and some
of those I think we've been on a missions as
musicians to try to coax a little bit out of
our instruments, because that's a lot easier than actually learning
(40:49):
how to play a piano.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
No, and it's also fun because you're changing it in
a way that is different from, you know, a typical
guitar sound or yeah.
Speaker 6 (40:59):
Yeah, do you ever do prepared piano stuff?
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I like putting tape on it? Yeah, I like that.
I've done that a little bit.
Speaker 6 (41:05):
Yeah, fun.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
I haven't done it live. It would be fun live, yeah,
but you know, I'm like, wait a second, get the
tape out. I'm sure. I'm sure you can get a contraption.
I'm just kind of lazy in that way.
Speaker 6 (41:20):
But just take like you know, your kid's old toy band, Yeah,
and just dump it in there.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Just have a beater, yeah, I'm sure that.
Speaker 6 (41:26):
Yeah, the house piano will love that.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
I should do that to that piano there, that little
tom thumb. That would sound good that way.
Speaker 7 (41:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Actually, my favorite piano in my house up there has
a mute. Yeah, but it's built in. It's just that
kind of and we just love the mute.
Speaker 6 (41:44):
Yeah, it's the prettiest, quite a sound. It's fun to
sing against.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
That easier, way easier. Yeah, it's nice and nice house piano.
Do you ever play Indian music because of the fretless nature,
I'm just we were talking about yeah, all.
Speaker 6 (41:59):
Them, Yeah, yeah, I mean I would say there are
times where I'm hearing Indian music and I'm trying to
sort of like, you know, visit that that place a
little bit. I was doing that a lot more, I
think when I was playing slide yeah, and on fretless
(42:26):
on this instrument, it feels like the sound I'm hearing
in my head right now is a little bit more
like a woodwind player.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
That's what it sounds like.
Speaker 6 (42:36):
Something about the vibrato on on this, like the pressure
sensitivity to it gives this like like wind.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
There's there's a lot of air in it.
Speaker 9 (42:46):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
It's beautiful.
Speaker 6 (42:47):
Thanks, It's so fun to play. It's really been. It's
just been a treat. How much of our set is
on this guitar each night. It's really it's growing.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
It's great toys playing with You're playing with awesome toys.
Speaker 8 (43:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (43:07):
When are you going to put the the little pitch
wheel on this? Oh my gosh, this old gal so
you have.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
A little that'd be fun you know, in high school,
I went to Performing Arts High School in Dallas, and
I had a synthesis class. So we played synthesizers in class.
And all the guys in my class were incredible, really
amazing musicians, and they all knew how to do the
pitch bend, and I remember they were teaching me how
to do it and I could not. I think he
(43:36):
took the part away from me actually because I couldn't
do it right.
Speaker 6 (43:39):
Pitch bend on a synthesizer, yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
A d X seven, you know, like we and some
of the guys were playing a mug mog minimg. Do
you say mug or mug? I think it's it's it is, okay.
Speaker 6 (43:52):
Now I know that one. That one we've we've proven, okay, Yeah,
that that's a that's a that's like yeah, it's sort
of the keyboardist way of signing guitar ish.
Speaker 7 (44:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Yeah, it's like our our toy.
Speaker 8 (44:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah. I'm not very good at I'm not very patient
with gear and trying to fiddle with sounds. But if
it's there and I can play it, you can't not.
It's so fun. Can't Yeah, I mean I can't. I
can't stop yeah, it's pretty fun. Yeah, maybe someday I'll
tour with.
Speaker 6 (44:30):
I think, like we're exploring this stuff and having so
much fun with it, and I can also see us,
you know, a year from now, just like let's leave
that ship at home. Oh yeah, straight in. You know,
it does records.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
When one sets the other up, the pendulum swings and
when you're tired of it, well, it doesn't matter because
you can play either way.
Speaker 6 (44:55):
Right hopefully Yeah some nights. Yeah, yeah, like to think.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
So, yeah, I definitely think.
Speaker 13 (45:03):
So.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
You've been doing sessions since you were a kid, right.
Speaker 6 (45:06):
Yeah, I've been doing sessions since I was well, I guess,
and yeah, my late teens.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
That's wild sessions in LA.
Speaker 6 (45:13):
That's so cool. I think part of that is having
grown up in Los Angeles, Yeah, you know, being where
a lot of recording sessions are happening and got thrown
into it pretty early on. Yeah, but I love, I
still love the the framework of working on such a
variety of music over the course of a year. It's
(45:37):
really different from being a recording artist, where you have
a record cycle, you know, and you've got an album
that you're supporting, and you can be playing a group
of songs for a year or two as a session
player or producer. To be working for anywhere from a
day to a few months on such a body work
(46:01):
and then the slate is cleared and you go somewhere
else entirely. That was really good for me, you know,
that kind of variety. I still enjoyed that aspect of
spending most of my time in the studio.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Yeah, I mean it's a special place to be. You
guys have the sweet spots where you get to dip
in and then do your own thing, and absolutely, you knowlege,
it's pretty cool. It's an honor to have here. Oh,
thank you so much. Yeah, I love you guys. We
got to play together on that record my forever Ago. Yeah, god,
(46:38):
that was like two thousand Little Broken Hearts. It was
like twenty ten maybe, yeah.
Speaker 6 (46:42):
And I want to say and remind you what studio
we were working with.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
I can't remember what it was called. I've never been
there again. It was like a big warehouse. Yeah, it
didn't feel like a like a proper studio. Yeah, I
could check, I could check the credit.
Speaker 6 (47:00):
It was long, Yeah, it was a long, long time ago,
felt like a former life.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Well it's fifteen years ago. I guess, I guess it was.
Speaker 6 (47:10):
Some things that happened fifteen years ago don't feel as
long ago as others.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
I know, I know what you mean. Yeah, but yeah
that was it was like two days, but three days.
Speaker 6 (47:21):
It was fun. Yeah, it's a cool record.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Now we got to make a record together, Pino, let's
do it playing around. So I like to usually end
these episodes with a like a cover or just something
kind of a wild card. And I love it when
someone else suggests something that I've never heard of, And
you have suggested this incredible song that I'm really excited about.
Speaker 6 (47:45):
I'm so glad. I'm excited too.
Speaker 8 (47:48):
Well.
Speaker 6 (47:48):
I threw it out there because John Martin is someone
who's been coming up recently as we've been doing some
press for our record. Heard uh the question of like,
you know, what are your what are you listening to
right now? And so that comes up a lot, and
(48:09):
and one of the one of our sort of I
think our common influences or artists that we love is
uh with the records by this guy John Martin.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
I I this is my first time hearing him. Yeah
he's or maybe it's not, but I you know, I
don't know.
Speaker 6 (48:31):
May you so called.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Maybe I've heard that one.
Speaker 6 (48:33):
Yeah, that was kind of his hit.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Yeah, well I love this when you said it's just
such a good song, you know, when you put something
on and it's just like the lyrics and everything, it's all.
Speaker 6 (48:47):
The right spot. Yeah, it's so we've never played this before.
It's going to be.
Speaker 8 (48:56):
Huge. Friend, I didn't know that song.
Speaker 6 (48:58):
Yeah, it's from Yeah, a little bit of a later record.
It's not it's not in the prime of of the
stuff that he's known for, but it's this really, it's
a it's a great record, and he made it. I
think I came up. I came to know it because
Phil Brown, the engineer was was the engineer on this album.
(49:22):
Phil had done the final two Talk Talk records and
the Mark Hollis record. Those were really big for me
around the pandemic, you know that time and and and
I thought they were just so beautifully recorded that I
I picked up Phil's book and and learned about a
bunch of stuff that he did. In one of them
was this John Martin record. That's how I came I
(49:46):
think that's kind of how I came into John Martin
really appreciating his albums. Then went back from there.
Speaker 9 (50:32):
Some of us live like Princess, and some of us
sleeve like we. Most of us live just like me.
We don't know what a means.
Speaker 15 (50:53):
To take our place in the world, to make up peace,
the word, to make up.
Speaker 14 (51:05):
Way, one word, to have us saying one word. If
you ain't got to to say that, I'd care talk
to you.
Speaker 7 (51:27):
No use card.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
There's been no card I say.
Speaker 9 (51:32):
It's just the way the wind blows, just.
Speaker 11 (51:37):
The name of the game, the way the world, the
way the world. It's just the way word, just the way,
the word.
Speaker 10 (52:01):
So coling lonly coling, lonely, coing loly. It's so cold
and lonely world, colding loly, colding loly.
Speaker 16 (52:31):
It's just a cold, holy world where world believe you
(53:55):
or not.
Speaker 5 (53:57):
One word.
Speaker 7 (54:00):
You do not.
Speaker 5 (54:02):
Work world.
Speaker 9 (54:14):
Some of us live like Princess, and some of us
live like Queen.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
Most of us just live like me, and we don't
know what it means.
Speaker 15 (54:34):
To make our place in the world, take our place
in one word, make our line, make our way in
one world.
Speaker 7 (55:13):
After that was fun. It's a fun song.
Speaker 6 (56:15):
Like the sour tuning.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
This is really fun. It is thank you for coming,
Thank you for Blake and Pino. I am honored to
have you here. More please, thank you more please.
Speaker 6 (56:29):
I wanted to have you here in your house as well.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
Thank you for bringing all your stuff. You're cool.
Speaker 6 (56:37):
We just happened to have it.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
Yeah, lucky me.
Speaker 7 (56:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (56:41):
Yeah, we can't wait to listen back to some of this.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
Yeah, it's going to be cool and do more.
Speaker 8 (56:47):
Yeah, we'll come back with one string instrument.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
That's fine, whatever you want. I won't make music out
of anything.
Speaker 6 (56:53):
The three of us will sit at a long piano bench.
One piano.
Speaker 15 (56:56):
One.
Speaker 6 (56:57):
Yay, we did one. Thank you, Thank you, pure, Thanks
you guys.
Speaker 1 (57:04):
Oh yay.
Speaker 6 (57:04):
That was fun.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
That was amazing. Yeah, they're so awesome. They make it
seem so easy. Well, and I was so nervous about
this one because the music was so hard and they're
such heavy weights, you know, but they did. They're just
easy to hang with and sweet, so easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it was great. I loved this episode. I love doing these.
This is a fun show to do. I just have
(57:26):
to say that. Yeah. Yeah, I get to meet and
hang I mean I've met both of them before, I've
worked with Blake before. Yeah, but to just see people
and yeah, do this, it's I Think they have fun too.
I think they do. If you want to know what
songs we played on this episode, the first song was
called Contour and it was from the album That Wasn't
(57:49):
a Dream written by Blake Mills and Pani Paladin and
Chris Weisman. That album was released in twenty twenty five.
The second song was called What Is Wrong with You
Album and written by Blake and Pino. And the third
song we did was a John Martin song from his
album One World, which was released in nineteen seventy seven,
(58:11):
and the song was called One World That was a
fun one to learn. Special thanks to Blake Mills and
Pino Palladino for joining us today, and we'll be back
next week with Mike Campbell. Norah Jones as Playing Along
is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Visit Nora Jones channel
and be sure to subscribe while you're there. I'm your host,
Norah Jones. This episode was recorded by Matt Marinelli, mixed
(58:32):
by Jamie Landry, Audio post production and mastering by Greg Tobler,
artwork by Eliza Fry, Photography by Sherevin Lenez. Produced by
Nora Jones and Sarah Oda executive producers Aaron Wan Kaufman
and Jordan runtalg marketing lead Alison Kantra Graber. Thanks for
joining US.
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