In this deeply honest and emotionally raw episode of NXT Chapter, Bishop T.D. Jakes sits down with NFL icon and cultural trailblazer Cam Newton for a conversation that goes far beyond football. From growing up Pentecostal to navigating fame, faith, fatherhood, and personal healing, Cam opens up in ways rarely seen before.
Known for redefining the quarterback position in the NFL with the Carolina Panthers, Auburn University, and on the sport’s biggest stages, Cam reflects on the pressure of being a Black quarterback in the NFL. Cam shares how church shaped his foundation, how curiosity challenged his beliefs, and why faith became more personal than performative as his career evolved. The conversation explores relationships, marriage, vulnerability, and the fear of abandonment — themes that resonate far beyond sports. Cam speaks candidly about fatherhood, co-parenting, emotional language, and the work it takes to heal past wounds before committing to a future partner. Bishop Jakes challenges him to examine masculinity, anger, grace, and the courage it takes to be fully seen, touching on issues many men face but rarely articulate.
From NFL locker rooms to media platforms like Funky Friday, 4th & 1, BET, Revolt, and YouTube, Cam explains how his platforms became his ministry — spaces to reach people who may never step inside a church.
This episode of NXT Chapter is a powerful exploration of identity, healing, and spiritual growth — a conversation about who we are when the applause fades, how we process pain in private, and where warriors go when they need to weep.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Where does Warriors go to week?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:02):
Where does Lions go to lie? Okay, where do Eagles
go to crime? And really kind of check your scars, like, dang, bro,
they got me, dog, Oh my god, they got me.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
See I couldn't do that publicly.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
And when you at odds with a person that's supposed
to recharge you, now everywhere is a battle field.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hello, family, I want to welcome you to next chapter
with TD Jakes. We've got a very very special show
for you today. I think you're going to really enjoy
this episode. Be in formed, be inspired, and be renewed.
Today's guests is a true cultural icon, a Carolina Panthers,
Auburn and Atlantic legend who's swagger, style and spirit redefined
(00:55):
a position, a co host on beet and one o
six in sports and analysts on ESPN First Take, and
a powerhouse content creator and media entrepreneur behind I guess
I could say this Funky Friday and fourth and one,
an NFL superstar, turn media personality, and a devoted father.
(01:20):
Please welcome Cam Newton. Thank you great to have you
on the show. I let me tell you everybody had
been telling me, Yeah, he's a PK. He's a PK.
He's a PK. But they didn't tell me that you
was from a hand clapping foot stomping. Oh yeah, yeah,
(01:44):
yeah yeah, talking.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
About old, old deep root itself.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
My father actually got his learning or studied the word
up under my mother's father. Okay, they met a Savannah
and at Savannah that university, and you know, Bishop Talmadge
was my was my grandfather's name, and he took my
(02:09):
father in and gave him the word and minished taught
the ministry, and he took it from there.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
So when I say.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Church, yeah on the hardwood floor where you get hear
the jump. Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
So being in the position of football where you know
you play on Sundays, Yeah, I didn't really watch NFL
football grow I didn't have the time, right, you know,
you've got the eight o'clock service, then the hosting family
through the main yes, and then you come back.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, sweet potato pade in the back of the church.
I grew. I grew up the same way, the exact
same way.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
It should be fun.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, yeah, So I can deeply relate. I can almost
see the church, so I can deeply relate to it
a little small church, not a big church, a little
tiny church. But everybody knew everybody. Everybody knew everybody else's business,
and we had church, we had church, old school. So
I'm very, very excited to talk to you today and
(03:11):
what your journey. Your journey is like six Flags. I mean,
you had so many different experiences, so many different things
that I want to get into as many of them
as I can today and share them with you. I've
really got some things that I think are important. Chapter
number one, Pentecostal upbringing. How do you think your church
(03:38):
background informed or detracted from your sports career?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Ah Man, I think the religion of being a Christian
gave me my foundation of life, Okay, and that's the
great And if I'm keeping it funky, there are some
things I wish I could unlearn about that transition to
(04:09):
I heard once that said, my religion taught me how
to live, but my religion also taught me how to judge.
And I think when you're talking about what would Jesus
do and all those type of principles that you know,
you hear those mothers of the church and said that
(04:29):
ain't of God certain things the curious, you know, child,
or the curiosity in me was like, but why though,
and it was never answered to some degree. So as
I grew, you know, having that foundation of knowing right
from wrong, but still being curious to a degree, and
that's pretty much where you know and who I am.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
It's like, I don't judge.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I try to find the merit, the logic behind everybody.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I think one of the most interesting.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Classes that I've ever took while studying sociology was a
religion class, because.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I was the first time I got to look at
other religions, not.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
To join, but just to see perspective as a person
of Islam as you know, Buddhism, Hinduism, in Catholic and
certain things.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
And it gave me so.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Much perspective, absolutely, and I needed that and so do
other people need that because I think that there's a
great divide.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
In religion spirituality.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
So I'm the curious cat sort of speak that always
asks ask the question of why, and it has benefited
me more times than not with the spirit to understand
not to judge.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Was it hard growing up a preacher.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Skin, No, it wasn't. I think a lot of you know,
that's the cultural kind of.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Just kid.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
He the worst one.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I had a lot of person I did not lack that. Yeah,
and it was hard for me to get embarrassed. But
I think I come up in the church that you
had to memorize your Easter speech and speak.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
You know, you can have the luxuries. No, you couldn't
read it.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Roses are red violence something. Now you had to memorize it.
You know, the youth teacher gave you your speech on
the the Sunday leading up until Easter Sunday, and you
had to memorize it.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, you had to sit in the kitchen and practice
it for your mother over and over getting ready for ye.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Ye, I slow down people in their eyes and you know,
as as I learned and I was grow It's crazy
because I used my platforms a funky Friday fourth and one.
When you see me as talent on ESPN, first take
when you see me, you know, BT of one, O
six and sports. That's my ministry, that's my opportunity to
(07:01):
lure people to the degree I've never been, you know,
shy about who I am or what I represent. I've
given my life over, you know, to Jesus Christ. He
is the head of my life and those type of
things it's like, well it looks a little different, you know,
but I know where my heart is. So ironically enough,
growing up in church was my first initiation.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
To public speaking, okay, Okay, So that was.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
It was extremely comfortable for talking and just being juveial
in front of people and just feeling comfortable.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
So you grew up in front of crowds, that's nothing
new for you. No, you felt natural, felt comfortable and
being in that situation. But it's a big difference between
the church crowd and a football crowd for sure, okay.
And the emphasis is on what you're doing and how
you're acting and how you're performing and all the rehearsals. Said,
(07:57):
I also passed several of the cowboys, so I got
a front row seat at what it was like to
be in the NFL. Yeah. I saw all the girls
waiting in the back, you know, lined up on both sides. Yeah, yeah,
I know, I saw. I saw all of it, Okay,
the good, the bad, and the ugly. So, but it
is an amazing thing that a lot of our young
(08:19):
men aspired to be what what advice would you give
to those young men who aspire to make that to
cross that divide and go into that area.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Well, nothing that's worth having will be given easily, right right.
And I think there's a lot of distractions, temptations, hindrances.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
In any walk of life, right right.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
And when you add in starto yes, plus financial freedom, right,
that could be the recipe to you know, eyes to
the greatest of strong individuals. But as long as you
(09:08):
are rooted in what your purpose is. Oftentimes it's funny
story because I always knew right from wrong.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I just didn't do right all the time.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
And it was crazy that my highlights when I was
in the NFL, you know, it was like that's a
national kind of platform. And I remember on my bye week,
I went back to church because we had a free Sunday.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
And one of the mothers pulled me aside and say, Kimmy,
now I read your lips on one of the touchdowns
that you said, that's not Jesus Baker.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
And now now you know, I wanted to be respectful
because it's yes, ma'am. Yes, But it was one of
those things that that was some of the pressures, Yeah,
trying to be a certain type of right, but also
staying true to are and everybody sees the transition that man,
(10:12):
I remember he was just that knucklehead kid that was
asked to stand up in church because he was falling asleep.
And now going back to those routes, a lot of
those people still see that little boy. Yeah, And I'm
not saying I'm not using an example of using an
explicit word, but I'm saying, as you grow, so does distractions,
(10:36):
and you have to stay focused.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
So you know, I understand your parents were married for
thirty years. You said that you were kind of the
black sheep of the family. How many other siblings do
you have too? So you grew up here a strong
family environment, dinner around the table, all of that kind
of stuff. What do you think was the secret to
the longevity of their relationship?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Simplicity and routine. Okay, simplicity and routine.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
I've studied my my parents' relationship for years and in
some ways envious of it because, on one hand, I know,
simplicity and routine.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
My father's gonna wake.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Up at seven, he's gonna be out of the house
by eight thirty, and when he comes back, his food
is gonna be prepared. You know, the clothes are gonna
be ironed, and the house is gonna be you know,
tidy and everything.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
My mom's you know, she gonna watch HGTV all day.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
She may throw in a Discovery channel every now and
then she's gonna go to her Marshalls or TJ Max
or may C's or J C.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Penny.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
She's gonna do some antique shopping and may you know,
pick up a thing or two and then boom at
a certain times, she's gonna make her way right back
onto the house. To make sure that that routine is consistent.
My brothers as well too, Both are married and I
see them and it's simplicity and routine. Well, on one hand,
(12:15):
I know that, But on the other hand, if we're
being real, I can't be that because, like I was
having a conversation with the young lady that was micing me,
I'm going to sleep at two am.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Losing opportunities with.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
My children, not by choice, just by force, but finding
it in other ways and other avenues. That's my sacrifice
that hopefully pays dividends to what I deem success looks like.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Chapter number two, simplicity. Do you think that where you
are about that it's where you'll always be? You know,
we go through stages and phases in different ages and
differently depending upon where we are in life and with
the level of ambition and demand that's on you right now.
(13:07):
Simplicity is an impossibility, but don't you miss it.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Sometimes I found simplicity in that speaks to me. It
may not speak to everybody. You know, when that red
button is pressed or that red button is pressed, A
lot of times people see a character right right when
(13:32):
you would take the stage.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
As Bishop TDS.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
It's something that clicks into you to say, throat, I
just got to come up, you know, just certain things.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
You know, when I went on a football field, a
character was unleashed.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
But the simplicity is when that red button is not press,
that field is not able to talk to or get
walked on, or that stage is nothing, and I tap
in with myself.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Those moments are precious, at least for me. Yes, they're
very precious and very proud of and hard to come by. Yes,
And you hate for people to disturb them and uproot them. Yes,
and janq back into being on the field or on
the stage or whether it's a Broadway play. They're very,
very precious, precious moments.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
But my question to you is you've been the earthly
display of God to so many people.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Right, how do you find the time the energy to
just take a step back and disconnect, to recharge in
your own life.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It depends on how old I was, how I would
answer that. At one age, it was getting away, it
was going on vacations, it was just getting going where
nobody knew my name. And then it got smaller and smaller.
The universe appear people that did not know who I
was at all. At this stage in my life, I
stay at home. You know everything, I need, everything I wanted.
(15:09):
I go about five places, you know, the CVS to
the grocery store. I insist on normalcy because I think
to be totally robbed of normalcy, it's the worst robbery
in the world to be denied your humanity because you
were created as a human, not a star, not an actor,
(15:30):
not a movie star, not even a preacher. You were
created as a human being, and so you're a man
before you anything else. You're God's man. But you're also
a man, and that man needs to be able to
breathe and think, and in order to be able to
walk out on the stage and be creative and be
inundated with new thought, He needs to be able to
(15:50):
think and read other materials and be wise to what
is going on in the world, especially now when the
world is changing so drastically. I can no longer depend
on the world to be what it was ten years ago.
The institutions are changing. One thing I always give credit
to when Katrina came in New Orleans, it wasn't the
(16:13):
wind or the rain that really did the most devastation.
It was the breaking of the levees. And we are
watching the levees break. All the standards, all the routines, institutions, stables, laws, rules.
We knew how things went, we knew how they work.
They're all breaking and as they break, we're on the roof.
(16:35):
We're on the roof right now. And so I never
felt more needed in all of my life. And to
be honest, I never felt more uncomfortable in all of
my life, because I like for it to know that
this is stable, this is not going to fall over,
It's going to be there. And that's where faith becomes
the most important, because you don't need faith when everything
(16:57):
is steady. You need faith when everything is shape. No,
for sure, you need faith when all hell is breaking
loose and you find yourself in those kinds of situations
when you look at your life and you look at
your commitment to familyhood. You were talking about your sons
and all that you have. How many I have.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Six sons, three daughters.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Six sons and three daughters. Okay, wow, that's a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
That's he was taking a bag.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, you didn't completely, but you got six sons and
three daughters. How do you manage to give them presents
and not just presence? Or do you?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (17:47):
I'm a very hands on father, but I think the
more wiser I become, I try to make sure that
each child experiences, to the best of my ability, the
same parent, even though they will never witness the same dad. No,
(18:08):
do you understand? Oh, I totally do.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
So.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
It's like your first they get to oh my goodness,
you just ah, then you start getting into your second,
and then you get into your third, and then finally
do you when you when you get to a place
where you appreciate life and yours to say, when when
the nurse or the night nurse comes in at the
hospital and she says.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Hey, do you want me to take the child? So
you guys can.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yes, you take it, because we know that these times
are precious for sleeping and catching up and just you know,
those type of situations, and that when you start to
have a family dynamic, you start to realize the way
you parent your your your sons is not the same
way you parent your daughters. The way you parent your oldest,
(18:58):
it's not the same way your parents youngest.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
And then me being.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
The middle child, I know, I never really bought into
I was the forgotten one or I felt no, no, no.
My parents did an unbelievable job with maintaining equality within
the household. And that's what I just planned to do,
like small things, especially during the holidays, you know, the
s'mores and you know, I do all these cool things
(19:26):
to the world, TikTokers, the snap chatters, instagrammars and YouTubers.
And when you do those things and try to give
your children the experiences and when you ask them, what
was the coolest thing about Daddy's jersey, you know, retirement
jersey ceremony.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Man, we got to just play with Daddy on the
football field. It's the simplicity.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
It's not the extravagant you know, birthday parties and they
just want to pool and with having a lot I've
realized they don't even want the money, they just want you. Yeah,
and I try to find time that, even when I
know that they won't me going back to that simplicity
(20:13):
or tapping into yourself to get recharged. I want to
make sure that I'm the best version so that when
they see me, I'm green.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Three Reluctance to marriage. Your parents have been married for
thirty years. The thing you brag about the most is
the steadiness of how they are. They were dependable, they
were consistent. You even know what TV shows they watched.
All of that was in place, and out of that environment,
you still grew into the uniqueness of who you were.
(20:44):
Yet at the same time, I've read that you were uncomfortable, undecided,
or uneasy about getting married. Yeah. Yeah, what makes you
not want to give them the steadiness that you enjoyed?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
It always is misunderstood about my thought process of marriage, right,
and I'm gonna try you cut your cut your steam on,
cut your iron on, and your iron cast. I think
for me, growing up in church, my expectations of what
(21:21):
marriage looked like was was was pristine.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Sister so and so and brother so and so.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
We were not privy to what their issues was alongst
the household, that's what the adults protected and shielded the
children from. We just stopped seeing sister so and something
or brother so on. And you start to grow, you
start to realize it's like, well, sister so and so
still here, and she just brought another brother so and so.
(21:52):
What brother so and so and still Hey, y'all don't
really know what's going on. They all have to say, now,
will you take a step back from spirituality religion and
you go into the world and the people that you
(22:14):
look up to or you look at, and you start
to be around, and you start to say, y'all, values
of marriage ain't the same that I was used to,
Was it I tripping? Or is y'all tripping?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
So? Or is part of the education of the child
to learn conflict resolution and how to survive imperfect situation?
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
See, because I think that you do your children and
injustice if you create this Aussie and Harriet life for
them and then they go out into the real world
and find out that doesn't really exist. Some of the
strength inner strength of your inner being comes from the
conflict and what went wrong, not what I learned more
(22:58):
about what went wrong in my life than about what
went right for sure, I learned. I learned strength, I
learned survival techniques. I learned forgiveness. I learned when you've
had enough and you need to walk away. All of
those things I learned either through my own experiences or
watching my parents walk through their experiences. My father was
(23:19):
the kidney patient. He died when I was sixteen. I
watched my mother take care of him. I watched him
have good days, and I watched him have bad days.
I watched him run his fiststool a wall. I found
out that having uniformity came at great price, at a
great price, and that you had to suck up some
(23:40):
of your individualism and some of your attitudes and some
of your feelings for the betterment of the whole. I
tell people I've been married forty three years, and I
tell people we are married today because we believed in
something bigger than ourselves. And that is to say, the
marriage requires that you stop being so fish in order
(24:01):
for the good of the whole. And not everybody is
mature enough to come into that selflessness so that you
can create that environment of safety for everybody. And when
I think about you, I'm guessing because this is my
first time meeting you, but when I think about you.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It's our second. I'll tell you the first.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Oh really, we got to talk about that? Okay, when
I think about you. The thing that really trips me
out about you, it's hard to day as an athlete.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
I was gonna let you finish, but you said a
certain amount of maturity.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, right, right, I would say.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Also, people aren't in relationships for the wrong reasons, right,
I talk to people for that, right, right. And it's
my job to evoke emotion. I'm gonna stab, twist, I'm
gonna rub, I'm gonna, you know, console you. I'm gonna
(25:03):
tell you certain things, and I'm also gonna study and
observe you.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
And I realized.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
A marital vow comes from religion. All the principles of
how to find a virtuous woman comes from religion and scripture.
But why is that we only cutting out certain pieces
of the Bible to just fix our lifestyle. Well, we're
not applying the other things that God wanted us to do.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
So does that drive you away? No?
Speaker 1 (25:38):
It doesn't, No, no, no, no, no, it doesn't. It doesn't
drive me away.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
What it tells me is that I have to make
sure that I'm making a sound decision. I can't fall
victim to a person that doesn't have my same principles
because knowing that.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
That same whisper of that's not of God.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
But why would it have been easier to find companionship money?
Come on here, Well you took it right out of
mountain when you were broker. Were you more sure that
they were into you for you? Yes, it's part of
the problem and the reluctance coming from the fact that
now you can never be sure why yes, why behind?
(26:18):
Whether they are with you for a payday yes, or
whether they're with you for the prestige or the rooms
they get to go into, and you have to go
back in your mind and wonder what's the real reason?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And this is the thing Bishop, you won't find out
until it's too late.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Yeah, So when a person questions my marital faults, it's
not that I have an issue with marriage. I've been
in the situation to understand this. My desire of marriage
is not greater than my fear of divorce. Because when
(26:57):
I come into a situation and I start to say, like, yo,
I'm just this, you know, church going individual and marriage
is supposed to be here.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Then I go into a situation where people in.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
My locker room are married on Sundays, but on Fridays
they say hold on, bro where y'all say y'all at yeah,
I'm gonna meet Y'll hold on. But that's not just
the whole thing. There's a vow that most people do
say when they do get married under the Christian law.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
For better or for worse. Okay, So as I.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Study that and I start to realize, like yo, people
who are a couple of goals, people who are showing
off their ring before they even understand truly their partner
and is their partner battle tested.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Well, when you look at marriage, we have manage just
gotten through several iterations, gone through polygamy. Biblically, it's gone
through polygamy, It's gone through many many changes in terms
of what we require arranged marriages. Country solve problems by
marrying the daughter from this side the prince from that side.
(28:17):
Saw political conflicts. We have had a lot of iterations
of marriage and a lot of marriage that was different
from what we are going through now. My question to
you is this, if you can't feel safe marrying someone
for their motives about you, your finances, your wealth and success.
(28:40):
Would you feel more comfortable if they were wealthy and
successful and didn't need what you had? No, you don't want.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
That because I have that dynamic now, you don't want that.
See the thing about people love to assume yeah, like
they love to say, oh, just because you're married, you
just are selfish. No, No, I practice married or you
know displays in situations in my house. Right, with all
(29:07):
due respect of our relationship, I'm not just out here
coming in whenever I want to. I'm not just allowing
her or she's not just allowing me to do certain things.
When we have the children, we do do marital by
laws and principles.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Do you think an upwardly progressive woman couldn't do that?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
What I'm saying is the issue now becomes not with the.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Expectation of marriage.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
It's all the surrounding antics government right right. I know
that it's not to say that it makes it, It
makes it awkward. It's just like if we were to
get married on the holy matrimony, and there the Bible
(29:57):
does give perfect depictions of what will come under God's
eyes as an acceptable reason to divorce.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Why are you so adamant about that? But you weren't
adamant about having the kids.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
That for me was something that I thought I was
building towards it.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Do you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (30:18):
See the thing about my transition, like I said, knowing
right from wrong, but not doing right, that was one
of those things.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
But I get that. I get that. I'm not judging that.
I'm saying that you are almost military about it when
it comes to marriage.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
I'm just I just we haven't had a discussion about
having children before marriage.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
We just had a discussion before math.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
So how did so I'm asking? So I'm asking how
did you reconcile in your mind spreading your seed in
other places that you don't have the commitment and not
giving your child yes, giving them your attention, yes, giving
them your affection, but you didn't give them what you got, yes,
the stability. And do you ever think about that? And
(31:08):
how do you feel about that? I'm not talking about
for the cameras. I'm not talking about it in a book.
When you laying down at night at two o'clock in
the morning, do you ever think about I want to
walk in the next room and see you. I want
you to see what a healthy relationship looks like. I
(31:30):
want you to see what an argument looks like. I
want you to see what dispute looks like. The whole
idea of family is not just the biblical side of it,
and not the biblical side with having children. It's a
whole package. It's a whole package. And I'm wondering you
as a person and a person that has deep convictions.
(31:52):
I can tell already how do you manage the convictions
when you fail? And if you have grace for yourself
when you fall? Would you have grace for yourself in
a marriage? Would you have grace for her? Is there
grace for a marriage?
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I'm walking in grace to refine my flaws. So there's
never been a situation that I did not go into
it intending to marry. It just didn't work out.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
I see.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
So I believe you do more harm being in a
toxic situation, so on off toxic fruit, giving off toxic
energy to children.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
So what have you learned from that in your dating process?
That makes you slower to go that deep into the
relationship for fear of getting trapped with someone that you
can that you can have sex with and that sex
is great, but the love is weak.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Yeah, the goodness, come on, that's that's that's what I've
identified taking a step back.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Let's talk about that.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Come on.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's get with.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Let's cut that's what it was.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, we were I was young. I get it.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I came into a situation going back. I will keep
reitering certain things because it's now going to start to
make sense.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I knew right from wrong. I just didn't always do
right while I was young. I did not have the
eye to identify.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Certain qualities to say, oh, we need to we need
to attack this, not by pass, no, no, no, we need
to attack this because that right there is going to
show up, or that that monster is going to grow.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Bigger and bigger and bigger.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
And as your partner, yeah, that's where you can lean
on me and I can lean on you.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Now you know what you want?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
No for sure?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Okay, now you know what you want? Tell us what
that looks like to you.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Now I know, not just what I want. I think
for each and every man, it's verbalizing what you want.
And that's the issue because being around men for a
long time in.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
The sport of football, you get to see different sides.
You get to see the douche, the douche, the douche
to the strong.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Warrior that takes the field on Sundays. But then in
the locker room, man, this silly joker. Look at this dude,
man and the fun loving guy that always gets a
bad rap, and it's like, that's not who he is,
but that's the character. And then you always hear these
things about man, she just don't get me. But you've
(34:56):
been married for seven years, Like what's so hard to
just tell your significant other, your girlfriend, your fiance, your
wife that hey, you're not happy. And here's why. Man,
she not gonna understand, bro, And it's easy for you
to say you ain't married, I said, and I respectfully
take a step back, but those issues still are there.
(35:19):
So for me, growing up, I was working towards bypassing
the things because man, she was fine or man, we
didn't know how to.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
And I'm gonna say this right, we didn't know.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
How to properly discuss our issues without it becoming a fight.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
And this is the thing too.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Not until recently, when I say recently, within the last
two years, that I was able to verbies without sex.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yes, okay, emotional language often comes difficult for men. Yes,
we were not encouraged to have emotional language. We were
encouraged to suck it up and take it like a
man and shut your mouth, and so breaking through those barriers.
I totally get it. But I'm wondering, do you realize
that I just gave you a chance for millions of people,
(36:26):
perhaps two or at least thousands, to see what your
Cinderella looks like, and you didn't describe her. I have her,
you have her, Yes, you have her. Now I'm in
a relationship. I'm in a committed relationship, and and you
feel like this is one.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
It is the one.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
It is.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I'm not going nowhere else my fighting congratulations, no, thank you,
But this is the thing. So I can hear the
comments now that's gonna say, But why you ain't MA
see those type of things? For me, it's still the journey,
because for me, I need to have full conviction.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
How long is it gonna take you?
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I don't know when are you going to see your math?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
I'm enjuryed talking to you.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
I love, I promise you certain things. And I think
that's what church, yeah does, Yeah, they weaponize certain things
and forces you to do certain things and you may
not be ready. And my grandmother was it don't take
(37:37):
that long to do nothing right.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
You see what I'm saying. But this is the discussions
that I have with my father.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
But see, I'm not talking to you as a bishop,
but I'm not talking to you as a pastor. I'm
talking to you as a person. I want to know
who you are. We all get dressed and we break along.
That doesn't stay long. We use the odorant that fades away.
We get our hair done, but it grows back. We
brush our teeth, but our brush stinks. So I want
(38:05):
to know what's up under there? Chapter number four wearing masks?
What's up? What's up under there? What's up under there?
The resilience that made you survive? For example, I've read
about the correct you had at the height of your career.
(38:27):
You've run all these troph treats of Heisman trophies. You've
made a name for yourself for many teams. You've been
in the NFL. You've lived the dream. Then you get
a car wreck that was so devastating you end up
crawling out the back window. I wanted to meet the
guy that refused to die in the car and crawled
(38:51):
out the back window and got himself to some help.
I am fascinated by that. I wanted to meet the
guy that refused to end his career, even though it
was eventually cut short. Okay, and the normal path and
trajectory of people who played the role that you played
in football, you were denied that. I wanted to meet
(39:13):
the guy that was did the bigotry that exists in
sports and in the NFL, and how you had to
maneuver through all of that. And I'm meeting him. I'm
meeting him. I'm meeting him. So I'm grinting because that's
who I wanted to meet. I didn't want to have
a conversation to you with you from a pulpit. That's
why I'm doing a talk show. That's why I'm doing
(39:34):
a podcast, so that I can meet you where you are,
without the preconceived idea of what I think, because we
all have masks and the preconceived of what you think.
I want you to tell me where you are, what
you feel at your age, and I want to tell
(39:56):
you that ten years from now, you will disagree with
half of the stuff you said. Now you see what
I'm saying. So if you make a decision, the hardest
thing about marriage is you're picking somebody at one stage
that you gotta.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Stick with and choose yeah, in every stage.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
At every stage, and you don't know what they're gonna be,
and you don't know if they're gonna get kidney of
these and you don't know if they're gonna get cancer,
and you don't know if they're gonna end up with
one leg, and you don't know if you're gonna end
up with one leg. You don't know if you're gonna
end up impotent. You have to make that decision. So
there has to be something deeper than superficials that tie
(40:37):
you together. And she also has to be a woman
that can put up with baby mama drama and put
up with other kids and pick up your philanthropic side
of you. I read about you. I did my homework.
So there's a philanthropic side of you. There's the adoptive
side of you. There's the loving side of you. There's
(40:57):
a fighting side of you. There's a warrings side of you.
There's a relentless, tenacious side of you. When you look
at all of those different parts, of you, and you've
got to marry one person. What skill sets do they
need to be able to accommodate those ten people that
are sitting in that chair. There's ten people sitting in
(41:18):
that chair at least that I can see. And I
just just met you. So if we spend some time together,
I might find twenty five. Okay, yeah, I'm not saying
you bout both no no, no, no, no, no, no personality disorder.
I'm saying that we are a complicated species, and gifted
(41:40):
people are particularly complicated because you have things that you
do on stage and you have to gear up to
do it, and you have to be a certain kind
of person to crawl out of a glass window in
a car wreck that could have killed you and get
back on the field and play again. I wanted to
meet that person and find out who he is. There's
(42:01):
something beating up under that sweater that is relentless, that
is tenacious, that is able to maneuver through a system
that does not always lend itself to a black quarterback
being successful. After one hundred and five years of the NFL,
(42:23):
you've only got thirty five people that are quarterbacks. And
I called a friend of mine and told him I
was going to interview you. He just that. No, no,
he went out like I was getting ready to interview
prints or something. Oh no, he went absolutely crazy. He
says that you are arguably the top five quarter black
(42:48):
quarterbacks in the world. That's what he said about you. Okay,
that's what he said about you. Okay, give him a
bible for me. See, I will do that. I will
do that. I had this conversation last night, okay, And
so he's schooling me because I'm not into athletics like that.
(43:10):
He's schooling me about about who I'm dealing with. That
I'm dealing with the Michael Jordan of football and all.
He had all these analogy to describe who you were,
and I wanted to see who's up under there. I'll
tell you.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Tell me, well, the quality that she has to possess
is grace.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Because what I realized for so.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Long and was good at masking. Still am good at masking,
and I think anybody who is somebody is good at masking.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Where does warriors go to weak?
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Where does lions go to lie?
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Where did eagles go to cry? And really kind of
check your scars? Like dang, bro, they got me, dog,
Oh my god, they got me. See, I couldn't do
that publicly. And when you had odds with a person
that's supposed to recharge you.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Now everywhere is about a feel. So while I was
growing up.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
So growing up fast and realizing that yo, bypassing all
these things and saying like yo, above all, I realized
I was hurt and I wasn't able to verbalize what
hurt me. Now, if I can go back to that
situation and I can honestly say, I don't want to
(44:42):
point the finger, but maybe you hurt me.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
I was too prideful.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
I was too like, man, man, I'm you know what
I'm saying Like, I'm like, I don't need you.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
I do need you, man, you like man, get out
of here, but don't leave.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
See as a man, it's oh my goodness for me.
Growing up, I was the bread winner. I was the
cash cow. I was the man of my house.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
But always given respect to my father as that because
he is.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
Still the most influential man or person on this earth.
But even when he comes to me saying, son, I
need your mom, I need your brother, I need your partner,
I need everybody around you, I need.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
It forces you to grow up fast.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
So all that to say, when I was in relationships
having children, I was hurt. Did not know how to
verbalize my hurt. I was masking hurt with sex, and
that was not getting to the nucleus of the situation.
And now when you don't really say, hold on, I'm
hurt baby before before no no, no, no, no no,
(45:57):
don't kiss like we need to sit.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Down here, trauma, we need to talk.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Yeah, because what you said the other day when you
was walking out the kitchen and you threatened me or you.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
The hurt. I couldn't. I didn't know how to say it.
I know it needed to be said.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
And even for her, I didn't think that the relationship
that I was in we were listening to understand, we
were just listening to respond.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
There's many things she said I totally relate to. One
of the interesting things is when you have to mask,
or you feel the need to mask, you can be
lonely in a crowded room. You can be laying in
the bed and be by yourself because the real part
(46:51):
of you, the part of you, not the part that's saying,
be the part that's really hurt. Nobody gets to meet him,
and that's the person that God wants, that's the person
that a good woman wants, and sooner or later, that's
the point, the person that your kids want. But you
spend all of your life masking that person. How do
(47:15):
you unclothe him and still feel safe?
Speaker 1 (47:21):
You know what's crazy?
Speaker 3 (47:23):
This may sound like the most toxic thing that any
person ever has said, but my children sees that person
and that's the only human beings on this earth that
I feel fully safe with.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
And there you go.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
My children see a saltside, the protector, the provider, the
come on, son, don't do that. Man, You gotta you
gotta a frown face. Matter of fact, you get you
get a green face today, Daddy, go get you ice cream.
Matter of fact, we'll go get you a dinosaur. No,
(48:03):
you know what, bump all that We're gonna go walk
into the.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Forest that you always like. You'll do that? Think you promise? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Kiss it?
Speaker 1 (48:15):
My children see that.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
So it may not make sense to you.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
You you y'all. I've identified early on that the only
people that I can truly trust and gets the most
vulnerable side of me, it's my children, for right now,
for right now, I'm learning for right now. Like I said, yeah,
in the last two years, but my.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Lady has unlocked that for me.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Chapter five, Fixing Relationships. When you talk about that hurt
and I still get the feeling of being hurt and
using anger the camera fladge it because it's the easiest
emotion for us to access. It's not just that they
hurt you. There many times you hurt them.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Oh, without a doubt.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Yeah, yes, did you ever go back to fix it
any of that? You stepped out on her, You broke
her heart? She really did love you, Yep, you realized that.
It took her two or three years. Maybe she's never
gotten over you. Did you go back to fix it?
(49:30):
And if you did? Tell men out there, how do
you fix it when all hell breaks loose in your
love relation, all your marriage? What are the words the
emotional language that you say? Is it? I'm sorry? It
is it? How do you fix it? You know?
Speaker 3 (49:53):
The same thing that I said that my partner will
need the word that I use. It's the same way
handle important relationships that mean a lot to me.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
And that's through grace.
Speaker 3 (50:07):
She I was raised in a way that at the
time she didn't even know that that life exists. Right
when we first started dating, my first mother, my children,
she didn't want this.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
She was just like, man, I just like the fact
that we I get.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
You, but she already had a child and I was
willing to say I will take you and everything that
comes with you. She came a point in time that
was like she kept just saying I just want you,
but the reality is.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
I'm a package deal. Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
I get it, and to understand that.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
It was the complexity of that, and it's like, oh,
but you like being that character.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
It's like, no, I need to be that character for
all of us. I'm not trying to.
Speaker 3 (51:04):
Trick people. That's who I am. That's part of me.
That's one of those twenty five or teen you know
what I'm saying. I think when you have the understanding
and say I did have a strong case of hurting somebody,
it takes time and it takes grace. And there's been
(51:24):
multiple attempts to try to talk. It's been multiple attempts
to try to come to the understanding. As you just
told me, I'm trying to come down to you or
I'm trying to come up to you to get on
your level.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
And it's still hurt there.
Speaker 3 (51:40):
And I will be grace gracious throughout the whole process
to when she finally or when the people finally want
to come around and say, you know what, let's lay
it all out there, no judgment. I'm gonna let you
know how you feel or how you made me feel,
and I'm gonna tell you what you did and what
(52:03):
spun the whole thing, because that's the thing that was needed.
And we didn't have communication when there was conflict. We
had communication, but everything was oh man, you want that too, Okay, cool,
whatever she want, matter of fact, Oh yeah, that is heart,
matter of fact. I'm gonna get a that's easy to communicate.
(52:24):
Then yeah, things not present, not presence, Yeah yeah yeah.
So when you have conflict, it started to become even
more difficult to communicate. And that's when I needed you
the most, or that's when I need you the most,
(52:45):
and when I felt hurt by when I needed you
the most.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
You weren't there.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
You know what's funny about men. We can be hurt
and nobody know it. H We can be hurt and
still function. We can be hurt and still make love.
We can be hurt and still by you the dress.
We can be hurt and take care of Valentine. Then
we can be hurt and do all kinds of things
and not display it at all, which is scary as
(53:14):
I'll get out, because you can't look at my face
and tell what's going on in my heart or in
my head. But to the degree that you have been
able to liberate or apologize, or repair or stitch or
glue or staple together the hearts of the people, the
trail of blood you left behind you, how has that?
(53:34):
How has that healed you?
Speaker 3 (53:38):
That's why it's taking time, because I don't want a
previous cut.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
To bleed on somebody else.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
So you're saying to me in a way, you're not
single enough to get married, What do you mean? What
I mean by that is you're still healing from the
things you've been through and you're trying to get hold
enough Yes single men's whole. Yeah, So you're trying to
get hold enough parts that needs to do. Yeah, yes, yeah,
So you don't want to get married with two thirds
(54:11):
of you and one third of you living in regret,
and one third of you having flashbacks, one third of
you having memory.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
Being no, no, no, no, no, No, No, let's cut down
to the nitty or a lot of me.
Speaker 3 (54:22):
When I'm triggered, I leave and you will not know
where I'm going because I can leave.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
My phone, I can leave you.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
I can leave you and I can be gone.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
I've never did a drug or day of my life.
Speaker 3 (54:40):
I've never fell victim to alcoholism. I drink wine, but
that's not really like h It's not hard liquor. Never
drink hard liquor. That wasn't something that I always had
a natural spirit. But that boy can't.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
He's just lively. My thing? What sex?
Speaker 3 (55:04):
And when I leave you, the ego in me is
gonna say what you ain't gonna do, sweetheart, somebody else will.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
And that's what I'm trying to make hole.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
So that makes sense to me from this perspective. You've
always had a stage. Yeah, You've always had an audience.
You've always had a clap, whether it was Easter Sunday,
whether it was football, whether it was a girlfriend that
you go from a stadium full of people to an
audience of one or two or whatever you whatever you
(55:40):
were into, we ain't going there. But whatever it was,
you've always had an audience. When all the audiences are
gone and it's just you what's going on in here.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
I'm at peace the most, but there's a lot of
me that asked the question, are you gonna fight for me?
Because when I was vulnerable to the individuals that's family,
that's friends, that's partners, Are you gonna fight for That's
(56:19):
what I'm most scared of because everybody in love, everybody
wanna walk down to everybody wanna everybody wanna do all
the festive marital stuff.
Speaker 1 (56:31):
That the Bible don't even say.
Speaker 3 (56:34):
And I when I call it out, I'm like, yo,
The Bible ain't never mention no honeymoon.
Speaker 1 (56:39):
The Bible ain't never mentioned the ring.
Speaker 3 (56:41):
The Bible ain't never mentioned spending millions and thousands of
dollars on a marriage celebration. The Bible didn't say a
lot of these things. But if we're going off of
the Bibles of Cord, there's a lot of worldly things
that have crept into it. So now for me, above all,
going back to the most and packful vow for me,
(57:02):
I want to.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
Know, without a shadow of a doubt, for better or
for worse.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
And how is that evidence?
Speaker 1 (57:16):
You will never know? That's the thing.
Speaker 2 (57:18):
Okay, see because on one hand, you are telling me
you have to have somebody who relates to your history
but also can handle your destiny. Okay, your history where
you've been, or they won't have the same values and
the same convictions that have been inbred in you, both
at home and at church. And yet your destiny, the
(57:41):
man you hope to be, the man you are becoming,
the man that you, by the way, will spend your
whole life becoming that by the time you get through
working on him, you will be old because there's always
some work to be done. When Paul said I finished
my course, he was getting ready to die. It's a
long walk into where you're trying to go. And you
(58:04):
want somebody who can walk with you at every stage,
and they want somebody who can walk with them at
every stage. So so I'm gonna get off the relationships
and I like where you're at.
Speaker 3 (58:15):
Okay, but don't just walk with me when it's for
the betterment of you. Yeah, I got it, and that's
I got been. As long as people understand that when
you are hurt, come get me.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
I may tell man, get the hell away.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
But don't pay that no attention.
Speaker 1 (58:38):
That's that's the that's a character.
Speaker 3 (58:41):
But then some will say, oh, that's toxic, miss me
with that, it's like no masculinity.
Speaker 2 (58:47):
It's really a test. It's will you come get me.
It's really a test because your definition of love is
proven by you the other person coming to get you,
and that way you don't have to worry about it.
Abandonment checkmate, I got you.
Speaker 1 (59:04):
I take you through these courses just to see I
want it. This is the only way I can find out.
Speaker 2 (59:09):
Yeah, yeah, I mean you.
Speaker 1 (59:11):
Call it how I see it.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
Man.
Speaker 3 (59:12):
My father ain't raise no food now and I don't
got food before.
Speaker 1 (59:17):
So for me, I need to sit up here and
say like, hey, hold on, I hate to do this
to your baby. I gotta see you know what you
got to me?
Speaker 2 (59:29):
The good?
Speaker 3 (59:31):
But I really don't know. And that's what I'm afraid of.
That's not to say that I can't come along or
come around to being that or everybody to understand that.
Speaker 1 (59:41):
It's like, Yo, this journey.
Speaker 2 (59:44):
It's a journey.
Speaker 1 (59:44):
It's a journey, but it's lopsided. Yeah, until it's not.
Speaker 2 (59:51):
It's a journey and it's slopsided both ways from time
to time.
Speaker 1 (59:55):
Oh yes, sir, yeah, tell yes, without a.
Speaker 2 (59:59):
Shot, had it both ways room time to time, and
you you, and in the midst of all of that,
your career are in it. So you almost got two
eyes anyway, because you are to a degree married to
your professional profession or you're not any good headed. Yeah okay,
So I get what you're saying there, and you have
(01:00:21):
to have somebody who's willing to share you, and now
you lose you and still come after you. Am I
am I talking to your language?
Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
I mean fluid?
Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Flu Because it's hard.
Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
It's hard to communicate with people that do not see
your realism because if you can't cope with my lifestyle,
it's hard for you to understand what I'm going through.
I dealt with that with my father, the man my
hero today. Man, if my dad says, son, I need
(01:00:59):
you to jump off this cliff, pop for real, Bet
I'm doing it? That's how much control will he ever
use that? No, I'm using that as an example of
how locked in me and my father is. But even
(01:01:20):
in the most tenderest moments, there's a disconnect because it's
like Pop, Now you go to the grocery store, Man,
don't nobody know you? You lost normal, and I don't want
to disrespect you like pop man. I just signed a
hundred million dollars bro I gave the church twenty million
(01:01:42):
of that, constantly giving back and everything everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Won't for me is something. What if I need something?
Who go? You see what I'm saying? I need you
and you just leave? Oh, because I am besed you.
Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Now You're gonna pull the preacher out of me. I've
been good all this time. Now you've got to mess
me out. The kind of love you're talking about comes
from across that never lets you down, that always comes
for you, that's always there for you, That is that graceful,
That is that merciful, even if the cross generates through
the person you're married to. That that kind of God love,
(01:02:24):
that a gape love is what you are describing. That
kind of love that gives you peace and makes you
lay down at night and rest within yourself and be
content within yourself. And you don't need somebody to tell
you what's your name and all that kind of stuff.
You've got somebody on the inside who has identified you,
and you have been identified. You are being identified as
(01:02:47):
you are being described right now. Some good some bad
articles coming out some good, some bad. Posts coming out
some good, some bad. But the identification that counts is
the identification you get from God, because that is the
identification that you fight off all the other identifications with,
because I am who he says I am, I am
(01:03:09):
who he says I am, and understanding that, and understanding
that you can climb up in his lap and be
a little boy one minute, and then you can go
out here and play football and make a touchdown if
you need to, or go out here and do a
show and have all kinds of crazy ratings and all
of that kind of stuff. Some of the stuff you're
(01:03:30):
asking her for, you're asking the wrong person.
Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
I'm just using it as an example.
Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
I know.
Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
I guess that the biggest misconception because when you say.
Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
You go to recharge, that's where I go.
Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
And it's so sacred to me. Okay, I don't be
wanting people to see that, right. I don't want to.
I don't want people to hear my prayers that I'm
praying for. I know I'm flawed, but I had a
praying grandmother, and I lost earlier this year. My mother
constantly praise for me. I know that it's in my heart.
(01:04:09):
I know how to go to the man above and
cast down in just these demons and like, I ain't
gotta talk.
Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
What's up?
Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Bro?
Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
I need you see those things? People just look at
the funky Friday.
Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
And I'm not being unrealistic to a specific individual, because
you're absolutely right, but.
Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
I shell.
Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
The vulnerable to him because it is sleepless nice And
why are you always over there? It's like, man, I
gotta talk. I gotta see a sign. Man, I'm uneasy,
and before I do what has been easy for so long,
(01:04:55):
show a sign, just God? Like, where am Like?
Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Well?
Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
Why am I mad? And all the time? Rage? Nothing
make me happy?
Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Mm hmm?
Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Well why am I yearning?
Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
That?
Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Like it's some conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
I'm glad you brought up the rage.
Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
I spoke at Saint Petersburg, Florida years ago and the
subject was the danger of anger. And you could literally
feel heat coming up from the altar because there's so
much suppressed anger. Have you You don't have to discuss
what it is, but have you identified the things that
(01:05:42):
you had that make you angry?
Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
It's her mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (01:05:51):
Checkmate, Okay, do you want to so own yeah that.
Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
It didn't exist before her or or are hers?
Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
No, no, no, no, no, no, there's no herd like the first
baby mother that I was with.
Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Okay, okay, it's.
Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
Her, and I just want her to know that, like
I love you respectfully for who you are to me,
what we've been through.
Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
I've moved on, but there's still rage because I know.
Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
What you're doing. You don't have to do that. I
could be your greatest asset, and I know I did
my part and.
Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Hurting you, But don't don't. Don't. Don't play with me. Please,
don't play with me.
Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
You played with me way too many times in my face.
As a man of power. You don't want to get
embarrassed in front of people. You did that way too
many times as a man as a provider. You don't
want to be separated from your kids. You ain't God,
(01:07:17):
Why are you telling me when and I can and
I can't.
Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
As a man, I.
Speaker 3 (01:07:24):
Will go to the end of the earth to protect you,
and you not respecting.
Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
That as a man. What do you tell your daughter,
your oldest daughter, who I'm told has issues with you,
How are you winning her back? Or have you given
up on winning them? No? Never given up never given up. Never.
Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
She's in a very complex situation because on one hand,
what's in her blood is loyalty, and she believes by
being with me is disloyal.
Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
To her, to her mother. Correct.
Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
And I've always had the thought that our relationship, which
was great at one point and it went through a
very murky, muddy time because it was murky for her
and she was just a byproduct of that and witnessing
it it all being of age to understand daddy cheated
(01:08:37):
on mommy. But this is where uh huh, I'll take
that one.
Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
I'll take that one, because there's more the story.
Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
There's principles that was always bestowed upon me.
Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
Going back to sister so and so is what brother
so and so? How we don't see brothers Sister so
and so brings now the brother?
Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
Uh go put your offering in the bucket. And in
my household, I was always taught to shelter children from
why are we doing it?
Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
No, let's do it?
Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
No, no, no, I'm using example. Okay, why are we doing
this in front of the key?
Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
So let me ask you a question. If you got
a camera over there, if there were one thing that
you wanted to get through to her. You may have
said it before, you may have tried to express it before,
but if there were one thing that you wanted to
get through to her, because it's obvious that you love
her and you care about her, and that that's a
(01:09:46):
sore spot, look into the camera like it's her and
tell her what you want her to do.
Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
I think, with all respect of my relationship, you know
she knows this, and this is not something that I've
not disclosed or this is the first time. But I
owe a service and will always be there. But all
I'm asking in return is we have to stop the
(01:10:18):
differences of certain things.
Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Just have grace, please, Like we're.
Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
Too far in to be having these situations. And for
the longest.
Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
I've protected yeah, the world.
Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
Chapter number six being Superman. So when you get through
with your cape in your boots and your phone booth
and all of that stuff, who comes to get you?
(01:11:03):
Jesus said, foxes had holes the birds of their half,
and that's the son of man has no place to
lay his head. He didn't lay his head deil, and
he laid his head on across Who where do you
lay your head? And who comes to get you? And
is it your fault that they don't come because you
have trained everybody around you that you are the problems solvers.
Speaker 3 (01:11:27):
No, it's not my fault because in that way, it's
my fault because nobody will ever know I've mastered.
Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
That's something fair, though. How can you expect people to
respond to a scream that they never heard?
Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
That's where does warriors go to weak?
Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
Where does lions go to lie? Where their eagles go
to cry? Yeah, that's that's the warriors battle.
Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
Like.
Speaker 3 (01:11:53):
He's like, yo, bro, when you're on a battlefield, you
cant sit up there and hear somebody crying and.
Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
Like, hey, hey, hey man, shoot that gun what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
But the vulnerability is if this building is on fire
and somebody is trapped on this floor, if they don't scream,
they're going to burn up in here. Now, if your
life depends on your future, depends on your happiness depends
on it, your wholeness depends on it, you better get
some vocal cords.
Speaker 3 (01:12:20):
But there's been times where nobody was seeing the signs
and I said, like, you keep coming back in a
different ways. Yes, I've been screaming to the people who
I trust the most that it is not.
Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
Where you going way? I need?
Speaker 2 (01:12:37):
What?
Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
Hey, he may not my boy, I need And then
it goes So when I go back into my space,
figure it out.
Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
How long do you go back in your space and
stay before you come out again?
Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
It's not a tangible time all the time. Okay, it
could be days, it could be weeks.
Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
It could be monthster years, oh my goodness, and nobody.
So we're left with the actor. We're lift with, We're
left the shell. That's who I didn't want to talk to.
I didn't want to talk to the shell. I wanted
to talk to the man. And I'm getting a talk
to them, No, for sure, and I'm I'm thrilled with that.
(01:13:21):
There are other people out there who are interested in
the man. Being famous does complicated It does complicate it.
Having any kind of wealth complicates it. Having people debate
you like your ping pong ball complicates it because when
people see you in certain TV, they don't think you're
(01:13:42):
a person. They a lot of people see you as
an opportunity more than they see you as an individual.
Can part again, a lot of people see you as
an opportunity more than they see you as an individual.
Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
Though, can you say it one more time.
Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Okay, A lot of people see you as an opportunity
because you are where they want to be.
Speaker 3 (01:14:06):
So a lot of people who I trusted see me
more as an opportunity than an individual.
Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
Then you have to find somebody You're not hearing me.
Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
By the time I found out, it was too late.
Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
That was in this is now. You have to find
somebody who's not interested in all of that stuff, who
really gets to see you. First of all, can hear
your scream on the frequency you're sending it is a sign?
That's the one. And then then have the courage to
(01:14:51):
be vulnerable enough to face the possibility of rejection again
to go out there and get it. And is it
worth it? Yeah, I think it's worth it. But you
gotta think it's worth it. You gotta think it's worth it.
Chapter number seven, Emotional language. You made a comment about
(01:15:13):
gender roles that became quite controversial. What do you think
about gender roles?
Speaker 3 (01:15:20):
Just could you give me the specifics because I want
to answer.
Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
Should a man also be submissive to a woman or
should a woman only take only catered to a man?
Is there a time that it's appropriate for a man
to be submissive to his woman.
Speaker 3 (01:15:39):
Now just be all that wasn't my quote. But what
I will say, yes, okay, yes, yes. I think oftentimes
I have the unfortunate reality of.
Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
Sounding like I'm choosing a side.
Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
Uh huh, Okay, you see what I'm.
Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
And while you have a microphone, a platform or being
that individual, they say, uh uh he's sexy. Uh uh
he pressed it, uh uh uh, Like let's keep But
what I don't do more times that I should be
doing is put in the mirror back on the individual
(01:16:23):
and saying, hey, bro, just as you're asking a person
for grace, my guy, you also have to give grace.
Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
It has to be reciprocated. Gender roles is no different.
Speaker 3 (01:16:36):
So when you're vulnerable or when somebody allows you to
be vulnerable, you have to show signs and sides that
it's welcoming for the truth to come out.
Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
If this statement was miss allocated, one of the things
you have to realize is that you may be responding
to somebody who is not mature enough to have the
conversation with or is so full of bitterness from what
happened to them that you become an outlet for their pain.
(01:17:07):
And the third thing that I think is really really important.
If you listen at anybody talk long enough, you're gonna
find something to disagree with them about, or they're going
to say something stupid. And you've got to be able
to live with that, because the person who's criticizing you,
if they had your microphone, eventually they get criticized too.
Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
Oh, without a shadow of it, they.
Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
Get criticized too. How have you learned how to deal
with disagreements in a relationship or are you still learning
to language? Are you still learning to language disagreements in
a relationship? Is it better to write it? Is it
better to verbalize it when you're angry? Do you have
(01:17:54):
emotional language emotion? I keep coming back to emotional language
because the emotional language is big thing for us. We
learn every other kind of language, we may even speak
in other kind of languages, but that hurd language. We'll
talk about sports, we'll talk about girls, will talk about food,
we'll talk about money, we'll talk about everything before we'll
(01:18:15):
talk about how we really feel. Okay, how fluent is
your emotional language?
Speaker 3 (01:18:24):
Well, emotional intelligence is how it was explained to me, and.
Speaker 2 (01:18:34):
Well intelligence is knowing, language is communicating. You gotta have both.
Thank you, Thank you for correcting.
Speaker 3 (01:18:41):
Yeah, with that, I've done the work or trying to
do the work to be able to this is the thing,
to be able to speak it right in a tone
that in some ways you just got to give it
to people with vinegar. It ain't no way around it.
It's a listen baby, hey, listen home. But and then
(01:19:04):
there's sometimes you have to deliver the message with honey. Yeah,
that's the intelligence versus how it is delivered. Now, what
I'm going through now is having discernment of when I
take the back seat and allow her to leave. And
that's where I'm trying to become whole. And that's the
(01:19:31):
new woman. That's a new woman. You are not married
to your grandmother. Your grandmother's woman is that generation is
fast away. Your mother's generation is fading away. The new
generation of women, not all of them, but many of
them do want that opportunity to lead to drive to
be progressive. And it doesn't make us any less man.
(01:19:54):
But it is hard when you've been trained in one
environment to become the other one. I think it's very
very difficult to do that. I want to ask you
this question. Travis Kelse and Taylor Swift had an argument.
Travis Kels recently said he's never been in an argument
with Taylor's swift and they're two and a half year relationship,
(01:20:17):
So I didn't tell it, right, They never argue in
two and a half years, they don't argue. What are
your thoughts on that? Do you think it's possible to
have the kind of relationship that they have and never argue?
Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
I don't think it's impossible. Okay, because.
Speaker 3 (01:20:35):
I can say the same, Okay, how are we identifying
an argument exactly that that's the real question.
Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
That's the real because that doesn't mean you don't have disagreement.
Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
Yeah right, you know, we could talk about it, but
that doesn't mean you're voicing your opinion as a bishop.
I'm voicing my opinion as a as a human being. Hey,
when you're in a relationship, she's voicing her opinion and.
Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
Say, hey, the baby, this is how it made me feel.
Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
And I could say, no, no, man, you wrong because
that wasn't my intentions. Okay, I apologize, I apologize. Cool,
that's not an argument. That's a discussion now for him,
I can't speak on what I genuinely don't know, but
it's not hard to believe that that may be his reality.
Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
Because that may be true.
Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
It may be hard for a person that does argue
to say, man, ain't no way in the world.
Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
He ain't argue, but just keep living.
Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
So chapter number eight, Killing Giants. The man asked you this.
So you got nine kids? Yes, sir, okay, anymore?
Speaker 1 (01:21:43):
God willing? Only God know.
Speaker 2 (01:21:47):
More you're gonna have. Man, I ain't judging that. I'm
just receiver. It as five more, three more. It allows
me to have more. That's just another blessing. Do you
ever fantasized about bringing all of them up under one roof.
Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
They have been not as consistent as I wanted, though,
And that's what hurts, because I come from that. I
come from the big family and everybody just ragging on
the same person, and that person being a funny person,
and that person being a real man at the house
or the woman of the house, or that person like that.
Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
If I had the chance to see you again, I
would ask you to write a list of everything that hurts.
The first girl, the gathering of the kids, the inability
to make commitments. There's something about writing it down and
(01:22:47):
looking at it that takes some power away from it
and it's just like right now, the budget, Yeah, I
would ask you to write out an emotional budget that
got you to better so that you spend less time
in your spacesuit and more time being the amazing, wonderful
(01:23:10):
creation that you were made to be. And this is
something you can do yourself. And as you stare at
what hurts you honestly and openly, it loses its power
as long as it hides in your chest, the blood
(01:23:33):
pumps to it. If you write it down in ink
and look at it and say, that's not the way
I should feel about that, That's not the way I'm
going to deal with that. This is the strategy for this.
This is the strategy for that. Just like you figured
out everything else, you figured out too many things in life.
(01:23:58):
I go back to the car, I go back to
the career. Most people don't know that there's life after
the gold post. I go back to espn BT all
the things you figured out everything else. You're not gonna
tell me. These four or five things we talked about
today are four or five things that you can't overcome.
(01:24:18):
And your life, which is passing really quick, the distance
between you and me is not nearly as far as
you think it is, it's worth it to fix it.
Please please hear me. Don't try to live with it,
because you're gonna look up and life is gonna be over.
(01:24:40):
Please please do the hard work, therapy, counseling, prayer, all
of it to get yourself where there is no rage
left in you while you got time, because you will
be me in a minute. I swear I was you
(01:25:03):
yesterday and all you know about God. You're smarter, you're intelligent,
you're bright, you got great personality, you got great charisma.
It's a shame that you have to live in the
apartment with an angry, frustrated, door kicking in, glass breaking
(01:25:27):
individual and then have to hide in most of the time.
On top of that, he's not that big, he's not
that tough. David, the giant can come down and you
won't even have to use all your stones. But get
him in front of you and make it an objective
(01:25:48):
for twenty twenty six. I'm gonna kill at least three
of these giants out of my life because I am
taking my life back. I am not going to allow
him to kill, steal, and destroy what's left of my youth.
You'll youth, listen you will never be young again, never never,
(01:26:19):
and all of the stuff and all of the women,
and all of the calls and all the phone's gonna
stop ringing. You got to you gotta find that place
of peace, no matter how much money you got and
how big your house is, how many square feet it is,
Please hear me. They don't mean nothing if you are
(01:26:43):
not happy in your self and can't nobody do this
for you. You have to do this for your self. You
cannot allow it to be based on your daughter's reaction,
your first girlfriend's reaction, your baby's reaction. This is not reactionary.
(01:27:06):
The thermostat can't be in their room. It's got to
be in the same room with the furnace. It's in you,
It really is in you. So if we close out
this podcast today, which doesn't even feel like a podcast,
(01:27:27):
it feels like I'm sitting up talking to somebody that
I don't know, that you say I met you before.
It feels like an opportunity to say something to you
that is really important. None of us have it all together,
(01:27:47):
none of us have it all figured out. All of
us got something written on our sheet of paper. That's okay,
But let's lower the list now so that you can
enjoy this stuff while you're young enough, because you have
built your life around a youth that's leaving, but pans
that are gonna be too big, got bedrooms you ain't
(01:28:11):
even gonna go into no more. The kids are gonna
get their own lives and come see you on the holidays.
You gotta live with you. And I tell you like
I would tell my own son, youth is a vapor.
(01:28:33):
It's like steam on a mirror in the bathroom after
a shower. By the time you draw off, it's gone.
You just got a minute to fix this. And none
of those girls, and none of those jobs, and none
of that money is gonna be able to fix it.
(01:28:56):
And I think you came here for me to tell
you that. And I pray you hear me, because I
don't want you to turn into a bitter old man
with a lot of excuses as to why he wasted
(01:29:21):
his life and wasted it rich. It's not like you're
sleeping up under a bridge, but you are sleeping up
under a bridge. It's not like you don't have anything,
but you don't have anything. It's not like you don't matter,
(01:29:46):
but if where it counts you don't matter, and only
you can fix that. Only you can fix that. More
money can't fix it. Bigger house house in Paris can't
fix it. South Africa can't fix it. Only you can
(01:30:06):
fix that. Because every time you get on a plane,
it's gonna get on a plane with you, and you're
gonna look around and all of that black hair is
gonna be white, and the hat won't hide it. It's
gonna turn white. It's gonna turn white. Your knees are
(01:30:26):
gonna get stiffs, your body's gonna ache, and it's gonna
be too late to fix it. For the few people
that you really really care about, that short list of
people who are holding your thermostat right now, you gotta
get your thermostat back. You gotta do what you can
(01:30:50):
to explain it and regardless to them receiving it while
you're living or after you're gone, you gotta get to
a place of peace about that, because you're a Please
hear me. You are running out of the time.
Speaker 3 (01:31:08):
I know.
Speaker 2 (01:31:12):
You are running out of time. Thank you for being
on the show today. Thank you. This was amazing of phenomenon.
I loved it. I love you, Yeah, I love you.
(01:31:35):
I just want to thank you. I I received you
know what you said.
Speaker 3 (01:31:46):
And listening to understand I didn't want to interject. I
appreciate your grace. Going back to the first time I
met you, Yeah, we were in LA You were with
your family at the pond.
Speaker 1 (01:32:03):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (01:32:03):
Yes, and when you came in you passed me as
I was checking into my reservation. And people forget how
much I really was in church or I come from
church and I looked. I said, amen, hey that's tdj's
(01:32:28):
and yeah, I met you there.
Speaker 2 (01:32:31):
There is something really special about you. Don't let those
rats heat it up. Don't do that. Thank you, you
(01:32:51):
got something. Hey everybody, I want to take this time
to thank you for watching the Next Chapter podcast. If
this Converse station inspired you, helps you reflect on an
idea or spark something new inside of you, make sure
to like, comment, and subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. Remember,
(01:33:16):
life isn't about how you begin, it's about how you
finished strong, So start your next chapter with us right here.
Every week
Where does Warriors go to week?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:02):
Where does Lions go to lie? Okay, where do Eagles
go to crime? And really kind of check your scars, like, dang, bro,
they got me, dog, Oh my god, they got me.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
See I couldn't do that publicly.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
And when you at odds with a person that's supposed
to recharge you, now everywhere is a battle field.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hello, family, I want to welcome you to next chapter
with TD Jakes. We've got a very very special show
for you today. I think you're going to really enjoy
this episode. Be in formed, be inspired, and be renewed.
Today's guests is a true cultural icon, a Carolina Panthers,
Auburn and Atlantic legend who's swagger, style and spirit redefined
(00:55):
a position, a co host on beet and one o
six in sports and analysts on ESPN First Take, and
a powerhouse content creator and media entrepreneur behind I guess
I could say this Funky Friday and fourth and one,
an NFL superstar, turn media personality, and a devoted father.
(01:20):
Please welcome Cam Newton. Thank you great to have you
on the show. I let me tell you everybody had
been telling me, Yeah, he's a PK. He's a PK.
He's a PK. But they didn't tell me that you
was from a hand clapping foot stomping. Oh yeah, yeah,
(01:44):
yeah yeah, talking.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
About old, old deep root itself.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
My father actually got his learning or studied the word
up under my mother's father. Okay, they met a Savannah
and at Savannah that university, and you know, Bishop Talmadge
was my was my grandfather's name, and he took my
(02:09):
father in and gave him the word and minished taught
the ministry, and he took it from there.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
So when I say.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Church, yeah on the hardwood floor where you get hear
the jump. Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
So being in the position of football where you know
you play on Sundays, Yeah, I didn't really watch NFL
football grow I didn't have the time, right, you know,
you've got the eight o'clock service, then the hosting family
through the main yes, and then you come back.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, sweet potato pade in the back of the church.
I grew. I grew up the same way, the exact
same way.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
It should be fun.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, yeah, So I can deeply relate. I can almost
see the church, so I can deeply relate to it
a little small church, not a big church, a little
tiny church. But everybody knew everybody. Everybody knew everybody else's business,
and we had church, we had church, old school. So
I'm very, very excited to talk to you today and
(03:11):
what your journey. Your journey is like six Flags. I mean,
you had so many different experiences, so many different things
that I want to get into as many of them
as I can today and share them with you. I've
really got some things that I think are important. Chapter
number one, Pentecostal upbringing. How do you think your church
(03:38):
background informed or detracted from your sports career?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Ah Man, I think the religion of being a Christian
gave me my foundation of life, Okay, and that's the
great And if I'm keeping it funky, there are some
things I wish I could unlearn about that transition to
(04:09):
I heard once that said, my religion taught me how
to live, but my religion also taught me how to judge.
And I think when you're talking about what would Jesus
do and all those type of principles that you know,
you hear those mothers of the church and said that
(04:29):
ain't of God certain things the curious, you know, child,
or the curiosity in me was like, but why though,
and it was never answered to some degree. So as
I grew, you know, having that foundation of knowing right
from wrong, but still being curious to a degree, and
that's pretty much where you know and who I am.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
It's like, I don't judge.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I try to find the merit, the logic behind everybody.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I think one of the most interesting.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Classes that I've ever took while studying sociology was a
religion class, because.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I was the first time I got to look at
other religions, not.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
To join, but just to see perspective as a person
of Islam as you know, Buddhism, Hinduism, in Catholic and
certain things.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
And it gave me so.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Much perspective, absolutely, and I needed that and so do
other people need that because I think that there's a
great divide.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
In religion spirituality.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
So I'm the curious cat sort of speak that always
asks ask the question of why, and it has benefited
me more times than not with the spirit to understand
not to judge.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Was it hard growing up a preacher.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Skin, No, it wasn't. I think a lot of you know,
that's the cultural kind of.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Just kid.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
He the worst one.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I had a lot of person I did not lack that. Yeah,
and it was hard for me to get embarrassed. But
I think I come up in the church that you
had to memorize your Easter speech and speak.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
You know, you can have the luxuries. No, you couldn't
read it.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Roses are red violence something. Now you had to memorize it.
You know, the youth teacher gave you your speech on
the the Sunday leading up until Easter Sunday, and you
had to memorize it.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, you had to sit in the kitchen and practice
it for your mother over and over getting ready for ye.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Ye, I slow down people in their eyes and you know,
as as I learned and I was grow It's crazy
because I used my platforms a funky Friday fourth and one.
When you see me as talent on ESPN, first take
when you see me, you know, BT of one, O
six and sports. That's my ministry, that's my opportunity to
(07:01):
lure people to the degree I've never been, you know,
shy about who I am or what I represent. I've
given my life over, you know, to Jesus Christ. He
is the head of my life and those type of
things it's like, well it looks a little different, you know,
but I know where my heart is. So ironically enough,
growing up in church was my first initiation.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
To public speaking, okay, Okay, So that was.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
It was extremely comfortable for talking and just being juveial
in front of people and just feeling comfortable.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
So you grew up in front of crowds, that's nothing
new for you. No, you felt natural, felt comfortable and
being in that situation. But it's a big difference between
the church crowd and a football crowd for sure, okay.
And the emphasis is on what you're doing and how
you're acting and how you're performing and all the rehearsals. Said,
(07:57):
I also passed several of the cowboys, so I got
a front row seat at what it was like to
be in the NFL. Yeah. I saw all the girls
waiting in the back, you know, lined up on both sides. Yeah, yeah,
I know, I saw. I saw all of it, Okay,
the good, the bad, and the ugly. So, but it
is an amazing thing that a lot of our young
(08:19):
men aspired to be what what advice would you give
to those young men who aspire to make that to
cross that divide and go into that area.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Well, nothing that's worth having will be given easily, right right.
And I think there's a lot of distractions, temptations, hindrances.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
In any walk of life, right right.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
And when you add in starto yes, plus financial freedom, right,
that could be the recipe to you know, eyes to
the greatest of strong individuals. But as long as you
(09:08):
are rooted in what your purpose is. Oftentimes it's funny
story because I always knew right from wrong.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I just didn't do right all the time.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
And it was crazy that my highlights when I was
in the NFL, you know, it was like that's a
national kind of platform. And I remember on my bye week,
I went back to church because we had a free Sunday.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
And one of the mothers pulled me aside and say, Kimmy,
now I read your lips on one of the touchdowns
that you said, that's not Jesus Baker.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
And now now you know, I wanted to be respectful
because it's yes, ma'am. Yes, But it was one of
those things that that was some of the pressures, Yeah,
trying to be a certain type of right, but also
staying true to are and everybody sees the transition that man,
(10:12):
I remember he was just that knucklehead kid that was
asked to stand up in church because he was falling asleep.
And now going back to those routes, a lot of
those people still see that little boy. Yeah, And I'm
not saying I'm not using an example of using an
explicit word, but I'm saying, as you grow, so does distractions,
(10:36):
and you have to stay focused.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
So you know, I understand your parents were married for
thirty years. You said that you were kind of the
black sheep of the family. How many other siblings do
you have too? So you grew up here a strong
family environment, dinner around the table, all of that kind
of stuff. What do you think was the secret to
the longevity of their relationship?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Simplicity and routine. Okay, simplicity and routine.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
I've studied my my parents' relationship for years and in
some ways envious of it because, on one hand, I know,
simplicity and routine.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
My father's gonna wake.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Up at seven, he's gonna be out of the house
by eight thirty, and when he comes back, his food
is gonna be prepared. You know, the clothes are gonna
be ironed, and the house is gonna be you know,
tidy and everything.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
My mom's you know, she gonna watch HGTV all day.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
She may throw in a Discovery channel every now and
then she's gonna go to her Marshalls or TJ Max
or may C's or J C.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Penny.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
She's gonna do some antique shopping and may you know,
pick up a thing or two and then boom at
a certain times, she's gonna make her way right back
onto the house. To make sure that that routine is consistent.
My brothers as well too, Both are married and I
see them and it's simplicity and routine. Well, on one hand,
(12:15):
I know that, But on the other hand, if we're
being real, I can't be that because, like I was
having a conversation with the young lady that was micing me,
I'm going to sleep at two am.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Losing opportunities with.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
My children, not by choice, just by force, but finding
it in other ways and other avenues. That's my sacrifice
that hopefully pays dividends to what I deem success looks like.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Chapter number two, simplicity. Do you think that where you
are about that it's where you'll always be? You know,
we go through stages and phases in different ages and
differently depending upon where we are in life and with
the level of ambition and demand that's on you right now.
(13:07):
Simplicity is an impossibility, but don't you miss it.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Sometimes I found simplicity in that speaks to me. It
may not speak to everybody. You know, when that red
button is pressed or that red button is pressed, A
lot of times people see a character right right when
(13:32):
you would take the stage.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
As Bishop TDS.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
It's something that clicks into you to say, throat, I
just got to come up, you know, just certain things.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
You know, when I went on a football field, a
character was unleashed.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
But the simplicity is when that red button is not press,
that field is not able to talk to or get
walked on, or that stage is nothing, and I tap
in with myself.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Those moments are precious, at least for me. Yes, they're
very precious and very proud of and hard to come by. Yes,
And you hate for people to disturb them and uproot them. Yes,
and janq back into being on the field or on
the stage or whether it's a Broadway play. They're very,
very precious, precious moments.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
But my question to you is you've been the earthly
display of God to so many people.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Right, how do you find the time the energy to
just take a step back and disconnect, to recharge in
your own life.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It depends on how old I was, how I would
answer that. At one age, it was getting away, it
was going on vacations, it was just getting going where
nobody knew my name. And then it got smaller and smaller.
The universe appear people that did not know who I
was at all. At this stage in my life, I
stay at home. You know everything, I need, everything I wanted.
(15:09):
I go about five places, you know, the CVS to
the grocery store. I insist on normalcy because I think
to be totally robbed of normalcy, it's the worst robbery
in the world to be denied your humanity because you
were created as a human, not a star, not an actor,
(15:30):
not a movie star, not even a preacher. You were
created as a human being, and so you're a man
before you anything else. You're God's man. But you're also
a man, and that man needs to be able to
breathe and think, and in order to be able to
walk out on the stage and be creative and be
inundated with new thought, He needs to be able to
(15:50):
think and read other materials and be wise to what
is going on in the world, especially now when the
world is changing so drastically. I can no longer depend
on the world to be what it was ten years ago.
The institutions are changing. One thing I always give credit
to when Katrina came in New Orleans, it wasn't the
(16:13):
wind or the rain that really did the most devastation.
It was the breaking of the levees. And we are
watching the levees break. All the standards, all the routines, institutions, stables, laws, rules.
We knew how things went, we knew how they work.
They're all breaking and as they break, we're on the roof.
(16:35):
We're on the roof right now. And so I never
felt more needed in all of my life. And to
be honest, I never felt more uncomfortable in all of
my life, because I like for it to know that
this is stable, this is not going to fall over,
It's going to be there. And that's where faith becomes
the most important, because you don't need faith when everything
(16:57):
is steady. You need faith when everything is shape. No,
for sure, you need faith when all hell is breaking
loose and you find yourself in those kinds of situations
when you look at your life and you look at
your commitment to familyhood. You were talking about your sons
and all that you have. How many I have.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Six sons, three daughters.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Six sons and three daughters. Okay, wow, that's a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
That's he was taking a bag.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, you didn't completely, but you got six sons and
three daughters. How do you manage to give them presents
and not just presence? Or do you?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (17:47):
I'm a very hands on father, but I think the
more wiser I become, I try to make sure that
each child experiences, to the best of my ability, the
same parent, even though they will never witness the same dad. No,
(18:08):
do you understand? Oh, I totally do.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
So.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
It's like your first they get to oh my goodness,
you just ah, then you start getting into your second,
and then you get into your third, and then finally
do you when you when you get to a place
where you appreciate life and yours to say, when when
the nurse or the night nurse comes in at the
hospital and she says.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Hey, do you want me to take the child? So
you guys can.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yes, you take it, because we know that these times
are precious for sleeping and catching up and just you know,
those type of situations, and that when you start to
have a family dynamic, you start to realize the way
you parent your your your sons is not the same
way you parent your daughters. The way you parent your oldest,
(18:58):
it's not the same way your parents youngest.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
And then me being.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
The middle child, I know, I never really bought into
I was the forgotten one or I felt no, no, no.
My parents did an unbelievable job with maintaining equality within
the household. And that's what I just planned to do,
like small things, especially during the holidays, you know, the
s'mores and you know, I do all these cool things
(19:26):
to the world, TikTokers, the snap chatters, instagrammars and YouTubers.
And when you do those things and try to give
your children the experiences and when you ask them, what
was the coolest thing about Daddy's jersey, you know, retirement
jersey ceremony.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Man, we got to just play with Daddy on the
football field. It's the simplicity.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
It's not the extravagant you know, birthday parties and they
just want to pool and with having a lot I've
realized they don't even want the money, they just want you. Yeah,
and I try to find time that, even when I
know that they won't me going back to that simplicity
(20:13):
or tapping into yourself to get recharged. I want to
make sure that I'm the best version so that when
they see me, I'm green.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Three Reluctance to marriage. Your parents have been married for
thirty years. The thing you brag about the most is
the steadiness of how they are. They were dependable, they
were consistent. You even know what TV shows they watched.
All of that was in place, and out of that environment,
you still grew into the uniqueness of who you were.
(20:44):
Yet at the same time, I've read that you were uncomfortable, undecided,
or uneasy about getting married. Yeah. Yeah, what makes you
not want to give them the steadiness that you enjoyed?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
It always is misunderstood about my thought process of marriage, right,
and I'm gonna try you cut your cut your steam on,
cut your iron on, and your iron cast. I think
for me, growing up in church, my expectations of what
(21:21):
marriage looked like was was was pristine.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Sister so and so and brother so and so.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
We were not privy to what their issues was alongst
the household, that's what the adults protected and shielded the
children from. We just stopped seeing sister so and something
or brother so on. And you start to grow, you
start to realize it's like, well, sister so and so
still here, and she just brought another brother so and so.
(21:52):
What brother so and so and still Hey, y'all don't
really know what's going on. They all have to say, now,
will you take a step back from spirituality religion and
you go into the world and the people that you
(22:14):
look up to or you look at, and you start
to be around, and you start to say, y'all, values
of marriage ain't the same that I was used to,
Was it I tripping? Or is y'all tripping?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
So? Or is part of the education of the child
to learn conflict resolution and how to survive imperfect situation?
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
See, because I think that you do your children and
injustice if you create this Aussie and Harriet life for
them and then they go out into the real world
and find out that doesn't really exist. Some of the
strength inner strength of your inner being comes from the
conflict and what went wrong, not what I learned more
(22:58):
about what went wrong in my life than about what
went right for sure, I learned. I learned strength, I
learned survival techniques. I learned forgiveness. I learned when you've
had enough and you need to walk away. All of
those things I learned either through my own experiences or
watching my parents walk through their experiences. My father was
(23:19):
the kidney patient. He died when I was sixteen. I
watched my mother take care of him. I watched him
have good days, and I watched him have bad days.
I watched him run his fiststool a wall. I found
out that having uniformity came at great price, at a
great price, and that you had to suck up some
(23:40):
of your individualism and some of your attitudes and some
of your feelings for the betterment of the whole. I
tell people I've been married forty three years, and I
tell people we are married today because we believed in
something bigger than ourselves. And that is to say, the
marriage requires that you stop being so fish in order
(24:01):
for the good of the whole. And not everybody is
mature enough to come into that selflessness so that you
can create that environment of safety for everybody. And when
I think about you, I'm guessing because this is my
first time meeting you, but when I think about you.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It's our second. I'll tell you the first.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Oh really, we got to talk about that? Okay, when
I think about you. The thing that really trips me
out about you, it's hard to day as an athlete.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
I was gonna let you finish, but you said a
certain amount of maturity.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, right, right, I would say.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Also, people aren't in relationships for the wrong reasons, right,
I talk to people for that, right, right. And it's
my job to evoke emotion. I'm gonna stab, twist, I'm
gonna rub, I'm gonna, you know, console you. I'm gonna
(25:03):
tell you certain things, and I'm also gonna study and
observe you.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
And I realized.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
A marital vow comes from religion. All the principles of
how to find a virtuous woman comes from religion and scripture.
But why is that we only cutting out certain pieces
of the Bible to just fix our lifestyle. Well, we're
not applying the other things that God wanted us to do.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
So does that drive you away? No?
Speaker 1 (25:38):
It doesn't, No, no, no, no, no, it doesn't. It doesn't
drive me away.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
What it tells me is that I have to make
sure that I'm making a sound decision. I can't fall
victim to a person that doesn't have my same principles
because knowing that.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
That same whisper of that's not of God.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
But why would it have been easier to find companionship money?
Come on here, Well you took it right out of
mountain when you were broker. Were you more sure that
they were into you for you? Yes, it's part of
the problem and the reluctance coming from the fact that
now you can never be sure why yes, why behind?
(26:18):
Whether they are with you for a payday yes, or
whether they're with you for the prestige or the rooms
they get to go into, and you have to go
back in your mind and wonder what's the real reason?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And this is the thing Bishop, you won't find out
until it's too late.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Yeah, So when a person questions my marital faults, it's
not that I have an issue with marriage. I've been
in the situation to understand this. My desire of marriage
is not greater than my fear of divorce. Because when
(26:57):
I come into a situation and I start to say, like, yo,
I'm just this, you know, church going individual and marriage
is supposed to be here.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Then I go into a situation where people in.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
My locker room are married on Sundays, but on Fridays
they say hold on, bro where y'all say y'all at yeah,
I'm gonna meet Y'll hold on. But that's not just
the whole thing. There's a vow that most people do
say when they do get married under the Christian law.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
For better or for worse. Okay, So as I.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Study that and I start to realize, like yo, people
who are a couple of goals, people who are showing
off their ring before they even understand truly their partner
and is their partner battle tested.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Well, when you look at marriage, we have manage just
gotten through several iterations, gone through polygamy. Biblically, it's gone
through polygamy, It's gone through many many changes in terms
of what we require arranged marriages. Country solve problems by
marrying the daughter from this side the prince from that side.
(28:17):
Saw political conflicts. We have had a lot of iterations
of marriage and a lot of marriage that was different
from what we are going through now. My question to
you is this, if you can't feel safe marrying someone
for their motives about you, your finances, your wealth and success.
(28:40):
Would you feel more comfortable if they were wealthy and
successful and didn't need what you had? No, you don't want.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
That because I have that dynamic now, you don't want that.
See the thing about people love to assume yeah, like
they love to say, oh, just because you're married, you
just are selfish. No, No, I practice married or you
know displays in situations in my house. Right, with all
(29:07):
due respect of our relationship, I'm not just out here
coming in whenever I want to. I'm not just allowing
her or she's not just allowing me to do certain things.
When we have the children, we do do marital by
laws and principles.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Do you think an upwardly progressive woman couldn't do that?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
What I'm saying is the issue now becomes not with the.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Expectation of marriage.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
It's all the surrounding antics government right right. I know
that it's not to say that it makes it, It
makes it awkward. It's just like if we were to
get married on the holy matrimony, and there the Bible
(29:57):
does give perfect depictions of what will come under God's
eyes as an acceptable reason to divorce.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Why are you so adamant about that? But you weren't
adamant about having the kids.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
That for me was something that I thought I was
building towards it.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Do you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (30:18):
See the thing about my transition, like I said, knowing
right from wrong, but not doing right, that was one
of those things.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
But I get that. I get that. I'm not judging that.
I'm saying that you are almost military about it when
it comes to marriage.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
I'm just I just we haven't had a discussion about
having children before marriage.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
We just had a discussion before math.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
So how did so I'm asking? So I'm asking how
did you reconcile in your mind spreading your seed in
other places that you don't have the commitment and not
giving your child yes, giving them your attention, yes, giving
them your affection, but you didn't give them what you got, yes,
the stability. And do you ever think about that? And
(31:08):
how do you feel about that? I'm not talking about
for the cameras. I'm not talking about it in a book.
When you laying down at night at two o'clock in
the morning, do you ever think about I want to
walk in the next room and see you. I want
you to see what a healthy relationship looks like. I
(31:30):
want you to see what an argument looks like. I
want you to see what dispute looks like. The whole
idea of family is not just the biblical side of it,
and not the biblical side with having children. It's a
whole package. It's a whole package. And I'm wondering you
as a person and a person that has deep convictions.
(31:52):
I can tell already how do you manage the convictions
when you fail? And if you have grace for yourself
when you fall? Would you have grace for yourself in
a marriage? Would you have grace for her? Is there
grace for a marriage?
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I'm walking in grace to refine my flaws. So there's
never been a situation that I did not go into
it intending to marry. It just didn't work out.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
I see.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
So I believe you do more harm being in a
toxic situation, so on off toxic fruit, giving off toxic
energy to children.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
So what have you learned from that in your dating process?
That makes you slower to go that deep into the
relationship for fear of getting trapped with someone that you
can that you can have sex with and that sex
is great, but the love is weak.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Yeah, the goodness, come on, that's that's that's what I've
identified taking a step back.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Let's talk about that.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Come on.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's get with.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Let's cut that's what it was.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, we were I was young. I get it.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I came into a situation going back. I will keep
reitering certain things because it's now going to start to
make sense.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I knew right from wrong. I just didn't always do
right while I was young. I did not have the
eye to identify.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Certain qualities to say, oh, we need to we need
to attack this, not by pass, no, no, no, we need
to attack this because that right there is going to
show up, or that that monster is going to grow.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Bigger and bigger and bigger.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
And as your partner, yeah, that's where you can lean
on me and I can lean on you.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Now you know what you want?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
No for sure?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Okay, now you know what you want? Tell us what
that looks like to you.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Now I know, not just what I want. I think
for each and every man, it's verbalizing what you want.
And that's the issue because being around men for a
long time in.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
The sport of football, you get to see different sides.
You get to see the douche, the douche, the douche
to the strong.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Warrior that takes the field on Sundays. But then in
the locker room, man, this silly joker. Look at this dude,
man and the fun loving guy that always gets a
bad rap, and it's like, that's not who he is,
but that's the character. And then you always hear these
things about man, she just don't get me. But you've
(34:56):
been married for seven years, Like what's so hard to
just tell your significant other, your girlfriend, your fiance, your
wife that hey, you're not happy. And here's why. Man,
she not gonna understand, bro, And it's easy for you
to say you ain't married, I said, and I respectfully
take a step back, but those issues still are there.
(35:19):
So for me, growing up, I was working towards bypassing
the things because man, she was fine or man, we
didn't know how to.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
And I'm gonna say this right, we didn't know.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
How to properly discuss our issues without it becoming a fight.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
And this is the thing too.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Not until recently, when I say recently, within the last
two years, that I was able to verbies without sex.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yes, okay, emotional language often comes difficult for men. Yes,
we were not encouraged to have emotional language. We were
encouraged to suck it up and take it like a
man and shut your mouth, and so breaking through those barriers.
I totally get it. But I'm wondering, do you realize
that I just gave you a chance for millions of people,
(36:26):
perhaps two or at least thousands, to see what your
Cinderella looks like, and you didn't describe her. I have her,
you have her, Yes, you have her. Now I'm in
a relationship. I'm in a committed relationship, and and you
feel like this is one.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
It is the one.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
It is.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I'm not going nowhere else my fighting congratulations, no, thank you,
But this is the thing. So I can hear the
comments now that's gonna say, But why you ain't MA
see those type of things? For me, it's still the journey,
because for me, I need to have full conviction.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
How long is it gonna take you?
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I don't know when are you going to see your math?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
I'm enjuryed talking to you.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
I love, I promise you certain things. And I think
that's what church, yeah does, Yeah, they weaponize certain things
and forces you to do certain things and you may
not be ready. And my grandmother was it don't take
(37:37):
that long to do nothing right.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
You see what I'm saying. But this is the discussions
that I have with my father.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
But see, I'm not talking to you as a bishop,
but I'm not talking to you as a pastor. I'm
talking to you as a person. I want to know
who you are. We all get dressed and we break along.
That doesn't stay long. We use the odorant that fades away.
We get our hair done, but it grows back. We
brush our teeth, but our brush stinks. So I want
(38:05):
to know what's up under there? Chapter number four wearing masks?
What's up? What's up under there? What's up under there?
The resilience that made you survive? For example, I've read
about the correct you had at the height of your career.
(38:27):
You've run all these troph treats of Heisman trophies. You've
made a name for yourself for many teams. You've been
in the NFL. You've lived the dream. Then you get
a car wreck that was so devastating you end up
crawling out the back window. I wanted to meet the
guy that refused to die in the car and crawled
(38:51):
out the back window and got himself to some help.
I am fascinated by that. I wanted to meet the
guy that refused to end his career, even though it
was eventually cut short. Okay, and the normal path and
trajectory of people who played the role that you played
in football, you were denied that. I wanted to meet
(39:13):
the guy that was did the bigotry that exists in
sports and in the NFL, and how you had to
maneuver through all of that. And I'm meeting him. I'm
meeting him. I'm meeting him. So I'm grinting because that's
who I wanted to meet. I didn't want to have
a conversation to you with you from a pulpit. That's
why I'm doing a talk show. That's why I'm doing
(39:34):
a podcast, so that I can meet you where you are,
without the preconceived idea of what I think, because we
all have masks and the preconceived of what you think.
I want you to tell me where you are, what
you feel at your age, and I want to tell
(39:56):
you that ten years from now, you will disagree with
half of the stuff you said. Now you see what
I'm saying. So if you make a decision, the hardest
thing about marriage is you're picking somebody at one stage
that you gotta.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Stick with and choose yeah, in every stage.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
At every stage, and you don't know what they're gonna be,
and you don't know if they're gonna get kidney of
these and you don't know if they're gonna get cancer,
and you don't know if they're gonna end up with
one leg, and you don't know if you're gonna end
up with one leg. You don't know if you're gonna
end up impotent. You have to make that decision. So
there has to be something deeper than superficials that tie
(40:37):
you together. And she also has to be a woman
that can put up with baby mama drama and put
up with other kids and pick up your philanthropic side
of you. I read about you. I did my homework.
So there's a philanthropic side of you. There's the adoptive
side of you. There's the loving side of you. There's
(40:57):
a fighting side of you. There's a warrings side of you.
There's a relentless, tenacious side of you. When you look
at all of those different parts, of you, and you've
got to marry one person. What skill sets do they
need to be able to accommodate those ten people that
are sitting in that chair. There's ten people sitting in
(41:18):
that chair at least that I can see. And I
just just met you. So if we spend some time together,
I might find twenty five. Okay, yeah, I'm not saying
you bout both no no, no, no, no, no, no personality disorder.
I'm saying that we are a complicated species, and gifted
(41:40):
people are particularly complicated because you have things that you
do on stage and you have to gear up to
do it, and you have to be a certain kind
of person to crawl out of a glass window in
a car wreck that could have killed you and get
back on the field and play again. I wanted to
meet that person and find out who he is. There's
(42:01):
something beating up under that sweater that is relentless, that
is tenacious, that is able to maneuver through a system
that does not always lend itself to a black quarterback
being successful. After one hundred and five years of the NFL,
(42:23):
you've only got thirty five people that are quarterbacks. And
I called a friend of mine and told him I
was going to interview you. He just that. No, no,
he went out like I was getting ready to interview
prints or something. Oh no, he went absolutely crazy. He
says that you are arguably the top five quarter black
(42:48):
quarterbacks in the world. That's what he said about you. Okay,
that's what he said about you. Okay, give him a
bible for me. See, I will do that. I will
do that. I had this conversation last night, okay, And
so he's schooling me because I'm not into athletics like that.
(43:10):
He's schooling me about about who I'm dealing with. That
I'm dealing with the Michael Jordan of football and all.
He had all these analogy to describe who you were,
and I wanted to see who's up under there. I'll
tell you.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Tell me, well, the quality that she has to possess
is grace.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Because what I realized for so.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Long and was good at masking. Still am good at masking,
and I think anybody who is somebody is good at masking.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Where does warriors go to weak?
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Where does lions go to lie?
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Where did eagles go to cry? And really kind of
check your scars? Like dang, bro, they got me, dog,
Oh my god, they got me. See, I couldn't do
that publicly. And when you had odds with a person
that's supposed to recharge you.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Now everywhere is about a feel. So while I was
growing up.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
So growing up fast and realizing that yo, bypassing all
these things and saying like yo, above all, I realized
I was hurt and I wasn't able to verbalize what
hurt me. Now, if I can go back to that
situation and I can honestly say, I don't want to
(44:42):
point the finger, but maybe you hurt me.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
I was too prideful.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
I was too like, man, man, I'm you know what
I'm saying Like, I'm like, I don't need you.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
I do need you, man, you like man, get out
of here, but don't leave.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
See as a man, it's oh my goodness for me.
Growing up, I was the bread winner. I was the
cash cow. I was the man of my house.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
But always given respect to my father as that because
he is.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
Still the most influential man or person on this earth.
But even when he comes to me saying, son, I
need your mom, I need your brother, I need your partner,
I need everybody around you, I need.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
It forces you to grow up fast.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
So all that to say, when I was in relationships
having children, I was hurt. Did not know how to
verbalize my hurt. I was masking hurt with sex, and
that was not getting to the nucleus of the situation.
And now when you don't really say, hold on, I'm
hurt baby before before no no, no, no, no no,
(45:57):
don't kiss like we need to sit.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Down here, trauma, we need to talk.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Yeah, because what you said the other day when you
was walking out the kitchen and you threatened me or you.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
The hurt. I couldn't. I didn't know how to say it.
I know it needed to be said.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
And even for her, I didn't think that the relationship
that I was in we were listening to understand, we
were just listening to respond.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
There's many things she said I totally relate to. One
of the interesting things is when you have to mask,
or you feel the need to mask, you can be
lonely in a crowded room. You can be laying in
the bed and be by yourself because the real part
(46:51):
of you, the part of you, not the part that's saying,
be the part that's really hurt. Nobody gets to meet him,
and that's the person that God wants, that's the person
that a good woman wants, and sooner or later, that's
the point, the person that your kids want. But you
spend all of your life masking that person. How do
(47:15):
you unclothe him and still feel safe?
Speaker 1 (47:21):
You know what's crazy?
Speaker 3 (47:23):
This may sound like the most toxic thing that any
person ever has said, but my children sees that person
and that's the only human beings on this earth that
I feel fully safe with.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
And there you go.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
My children see a saltside, the protector, the provider, the
come on, son, don't do that. Man, You gotta you
gotta a frown face. Matter of fact, you get you
get a green face today, Daddy, go get you ice cream.
Matter of fact, we'll go get you a dinosaur. No,
(48:03):
you know what, bump all that We're gonna go walk
into the.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Forest that you always like. You'll do that? Think you promise? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Kiss it?
Speaker 1 (48:15):
My children see that.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
So it may not make sense to you.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
You you y'all. I've identified early on that the only
people that I can truly trust and gets the most
vulnerable side of me, it's my children, for right now,
for right now, I'm learning for right now. Like I said, yeah,
in the last two years, but my.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Lady has unlocked that for me.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Chapter five, Fixing Relationships. When you talk about that hurt
and I still get the feeling of being hurt and
using anger the camera fladge it because it's the easiest
emotion for us to access. It's not just that they
hurt you. There many times you hurt them.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Oh, without a doubt.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Yeah, yes, did you ever go back to fix it
any of that? You stepped out on her, You broke
her heart? She really did love you, Yep, you realized that.
It took her two or three years. Maybe she's never
gotten over you. Did you go back to fix it?
(49:30):
And if you did? Tell men out there, how do
you fix it when all hell breaks loose in your
love relation, all your marriage? What are the words the
emotional language that you say? Is it? I'm sorry? It
is it? How do you fix it? You know?
Speaker 3 (49:53):
The same thing that I said that my partner will
need the word that I use. It's the same way
handle important relationships that mean a lot to me.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
And that's through grace.
Speaker 3 (50:07):
She I was raised in a way that at the
time she didn't even know that that life exists. Right
when we first started dating, my first mother, my children,
she didn't want this.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
She was just like, man, I just like the fact
that we I get.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
You, but she already had a child and I was
willing to say I will take you and everything that
comes with you. She came a point in time that
was like she kept just saying I just want you,
but the reality is.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
I'm a package deal. Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
I get it, and to understand that.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
It was the complexity of that, and it's like, oh,
but you like being that character.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
It's like, no, I need to be that character for
all of us. I'm not trying to.
Speaker 3 (51:04):
Trick people. That's who I am. That's part of me.
That's one of those twenty five or teen you know
what I'm saying. I think when you have the understanding
and say I did have a strong case of hurting somebody,
it takes time and it takes grace. And there's been
(51:24):
multiple attempts to try to talk. It's been multiple attempts
to try to come to the understanding. As you just
told me, I'm trying to come down to you or
I'm trying to come up to you to get on
your level.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
And it's still hurt there.
Speaker 3 (51:40):
And I will be grace gracious throughout the whole process
to when she finally or when the people finally want
to come around and say, you know what, let's lay
it all out there, no judgment. I'm gonna let you
know how you feel or how you made me feel,
and I'm gonna tell you what you did and what
(52:03):
spun the whole thing, because that's the thing that was needed.
And we didn't have communication when there was conflict. We
had communication, but everything was oh man, you want that too, Okay, cool,
whatever she want, matter of fact, Oh yeah, that is heart,
matter of fact. I'm gonna get a that's easy to communicate.
(52:24):
Then yeah, things not present, not presence, Yeah yeah yeah.
So when you have conflict, it started to become even
more difficult to communicate. And that's when I needed you
the most, or that's when I need you the most,
(52:45):
and when I felt hurt by when I needed you
the most.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
You weren't there.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
You know what's funny about men. We can be hurt
and nobody know it. H We can be hurt and
still function. We can be hurt and still make love.
We can be hurt and still by you the dress.
We can be hurt and take care of Valentine. Then
we can be hurt and do all kinds of things
and not display it at all, which is scary as
(53:14):
I'll get out, because you can't look at my face
and tell what's going on in my heart or in
my head. But to the degree that you have been
able to liberate or apologize, or repair or stitch or
glue or staple together the hearts of the people, the
trail of blood you left behind you, how has that?
(53:34):
How has that healed you?
Speaker 3 (53:38):
That's why it's taking time, because I don't want a
previous cut.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
To bleed on somebody else.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
So you're saying to me in a way, you're not
single enough to get married, What do you mean? What
I mean by that is you're still healing from the
things you've been through and you're trying to get hold
enough Yes single men's whole. Yeah, So you're trying to
get hold enough parts that needs to do. Yeah, yes, yeah,
So you don't want to get married with two thirds
(54:11):
of you and one third of you living in regret,
and one third of you having flashbacks, one third of
you having memory.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
Being no, no, no, no, no, No, No, let's cut down
to the nitty or a lot of me.
Speaker 3 (54:22):
When I'm triggered, I leave and you will not know
where I'm going because I can leave.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
My phone, I can leave you.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
I can leave you and I can be gone.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
I've never did a drug or day of my life.
Speaker 3 (54:40):
I've never fell victim to alcoholism. I drink wine, but
that's not really like h It's not hard liquor. Never
drink hard liquor. That wasn't something that I always had
a natural spirit. But that boy can't.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
He's just lively. My thing? What sex?
Speaker 3 (55:04):
And when I leave you, the ego in me is
gonna say what you ain't gonna do, sweetheart, somebody else will.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
And that's what I'm trying to make hole.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
So that makes sense to me from this perspective. You've
always had a stage. Yeah, You've always had an audience.
You've always had a clap, whether it was Easter Sunday,
whether it was football, whether it was a girlfriend that
you go from a stadium full of people to an
audience of one or two or whatever you whatever you
(55:40):
were into, we ain't going there. But whatever it was,
you've always had an audience. When all the audiences are
gone and it's just you what's going on in here.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
I'm at peace the most, but there's a lot of
me that asked the question, are you gonna fight for me?
Because when I was vulnerable to the individuals that's family,
that's friends, that's partners, Are you gonna fight for That's
(56:19):
what I'm most scared of because everybody in love, everybody
wanna walk down to everybody wanna everybody wanna do all
the festive marital stuff.
Speaker 1 (56:31):
That the Bible don't even say.
Speaker 3 (56:34):
And I when I call it out, I'm like, yo,
The Bible ain't never mention no honeymoon.
Speaker 1 (56:39):
The Bible ain't never mentioned the ring.
Speaker 3 (56:41):
The Bible ain't never mentioned spending millions and thousands of
dollars on a marriage celebration. The Bible didn't say a
lot of these things. But if we're going off of
the Bibles of Cord, there's a lot of worldly things
that have crept into it. So now for me, above all,
going back to the most and packful vow for me,
(57:02):
I want to.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
Know, without a shadow of a doubt, for better or
for worse.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
And how is that evidence?
Speaker 1 (57:16):
You will never know? That's the thing.
Speaker 2 (57:18):
Okay, see because on one hand, you are telling me
you have to have somebody who relates to your history
but also can handle your destiny. Okay, your history where
you've been, or they won't have the same values and
the same convictions that have been inbred in you, both
at home and at church. And yet your destiny, the
(57:41):
man you hope to be, the man you are becoming,
the man that you, by the way, will spend your
whole life becoming that by the time you get through
working on him, you will be old because there's always
some work to be done. When Paul said I finished
my course, he was getting ready to die. It's a
long walk into where you're trying to go. And you
(58:04):
want somebody who can walk with you at every stage,
and they want somebody who can walk with them at
every stage. So so I'm gonna get off the relationships
and I like where you're at.
Speaker 3 (58:15):
Okay, but don't just walk with me when it's for
the betterment of you. Yeah, I got it, and that's
I got been. As long as people understand that when
you are hurt, come get me.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
I may tell man, get the hell away.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
But don't pay that no attention.
Speaker 1 (58:38):
That's that's the that's a character.
Speaker 3 (58:41):
But then some will say, oh, that's toxic, miss me
with that, it's like no masculinity.
Speaker 2 (58:47):
It's really a test. It's will you come get me.
It's really a test because your definition of love is
proven by you the other person coming to get you,
and that way you don't have to worry about it.
Abandonment checkmate, I got you.
Speaker 1 (59:04):
I take you through these courses just to see I
want it. This is the only way I can find out.
Speaker 2 (59:09):
Yeah, yeah, I mean you.
Speaker 1 (59:11):
Call it how I see it.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
Man.
Speaker 3 (59:12):
My father ain't raise no food now and I don't
got food before.
Speaker 1 (59:17):
So for me, I need to sit up here and
say like, hey, hold on, I hate to do this
to your baby. I gotta see you know what you
got to me?
Speaker 2 (59:29):
The good?
Speaker 3 (59:31):
But I really don't know. And that's what I'm afraid of.
That's not to say that I can't come along or
come around to being that or everybody to understand that.
Speaker 1 (59:41):
It's like, Yo, this journey.
Speaker 2 (59:44):
It's a journey.
Speaker 1 (59:44):
It's a journey, but it's lopsided. Yeah, until it's not.
Speaker 2 (59:51):
It's a journey and it's slopsided both ways from time
to time.
Speaker 1 (59:55):
Oh yes, sir, yeah, tell yes, without a.
Speaker 2 (59:59):
Shot, had it both ways room time to time, and
you you, and in the midst of all of that,
your career are in it. So you almost got two
eyes anyway, because you are to a degree married to
your professional profession or you're not any good headed. Yeah okay,
So I get what you're saying there, and you have
(01:00:21):
to have somebody who's willing to share you, and now
you lose you and still come after you. Am I
am I talking to your language?
Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
I mean fluid?
Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Flu Because it's hard.
Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
It's hard to communicate with people that do not see
your realism because if you can't cope with my lifestyle,
it's hard for you to understand what I'm going through.
I dealt with that with my father, the man my
hero today. Man, if my dad says, son, I need
(01:00:59):
you to jump off this cliff, pop for real, Bet
I'm doing it? That's how much control will he ever
use that? No, I'm using that as an example of
how locked in me and my father is. But even
(01:01:20):
in the most tenderest moments, there's a disconnect because it's
like Pop, Now you go to the grocery store, Man,
don't nobody know you? You lost normal, and I don't want
to disrespect you like pop man. I just signed a
hundred million dollars bro I gave the church twenty million
(01:01:42):
of that, constantly giving back and everything everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Won't for me is something. What if I need something?
Who go? You see what I'm saying? I need you
and you just leave? Oh, because I am besed you.
Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Now You're gonna pull the preacher out of me. I've
been good all this time. Now you've got to mess
me out. The kind of love you're talking about comes
from across that never lets you down, that always comes
for you, that's always there for you, That is that graceful,
That is that merciful, even if the cross generates through
the person you're married to. That that kind of God love,
(01:02:24):
that a gape love is what you are describing. That
kind of love that gives you peace and makes you
lay down at night and rest within yourself and be
content within yourself. And you don't need somebody to tell
you what's your name and all that kind of stuff.
You've got somebody on the inside who has identified you,
and you have been identified. You are being identified as
(01:02:47):
you are being described right now. Some good some bad
articles coming out some good, some bad. Posts coming out
some good, some bad. But the identification that counts is
the identification you get from God, because that is the
identification that you fight off all the other identifications with,
because I am who he says I am, I am
(01:03:09):
who he says I am, and understanding that, and understanding
that you can climb up in his lap and be
a little boy one minute, and then you can go
out here and play football and make a touchdown if
you need to, or go out here and do a
show and have all kinds of crazy ratings and all
of that kind of stuff. Some of the stuff you're
(01:03:30):
asking her for, you're asking the wrong person.
Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
I'm just using it as an example.
Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
I know.
Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
I guess that the biggest misconception because when you say.
Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
You go to recharge, that's where I go.
Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
And it's so sacred to me. Okay, I don't be
wanting people to see that, right. I don't want to.
I don't want people to hear my prayers that I'm
praying for. I know I'm flawed, but I had a
praying grandmother, and I lost earlier this year. My mother
constantly praise for me. I know that it's in my heart.
(01:04:09):
I know how to go to the man above and
cast down in just these demons and like, I ain't
gotta talk.
Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
What's up?
Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Bro?
Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
I need you see those things? People just look at
the funky Friday.
Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
And I'm not being unrealistic to a specific individual, because
you're absolutely right, but.
Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
I shell.
Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
The vulnerable to him because it is sleepless nice And
why are you always over there? It's like, man, I
gotta talk. I gotta see a sign. Man, I'm uneasy,
and before I do what has been easy for so long,
(01:04:55):
show a sign, just God? Like, where am Like?
Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Well?
Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
Why am I mad? And all the time? Rage? Nothing
make me happy?
Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Mm hmm?
Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Well why am I yearning?
Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
That?
Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Like it's some conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
I'm glad you brought up the rage.
Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
I spoke at Saint Petersburg, Florida years ago and the
subject was the danger of anger. And you could literally
feel heat coming up from the altar because there's so
much suppressed anger. Have you You don't have to discuss
what it is, but have you identified the things that
(01:05:42):
you had that make you angry?
Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
It's her mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (01:05:51):
Checkmate, Okay, do you want to so own yeah that.
Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
It didn't exist before her or or are hers?
Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
No, no, no, no, no, no, there's no herd like the first
baby mother that I was with.
Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Okay, okay, it's.
Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
Her, and I just want her to know that, like
I love you respectfully for who you are to me,
what we've been through.
Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
I've moved on, but there's still rage because I know.
Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
What you're doing. You don't have to do that. I
could be your greatest asset, and I know I did
my part and.
Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Hurting you, But don't don't. Don't. Don't play with me. Please,
don't play with me.
Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
You played with me way too many times in my face.
As a man of power. You don't want to get
embarrassed in front of people. You did that way too
many times as a man as a provider. You don't
want to be separated from your kids. You ain't God,
(01:07:17):
Why are you telling me when and I can and
I can't.
Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
As a man, I.
Speaker 3 (01:07:24):
Will go to the end of the earth to protect you,
and you not respecting.
Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
That as a man. What do you tell your daughter,
your oldest daughter, who I'm told has issues with you,
How are you winning her back? Or have you given
up on winning them? No? Never given up never given up. Never.
Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
She's in a very complex situation because on one hand,
what's in her blood is loyalty, and she believes by
being with me is disloyal.
Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
To her, to her mother. Correct.
Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
And I've always had the thought that our relationship, which
was great at one point and it went through a
very murky, muddy time because it was murky for her
and she was just a byproduct of that and witnessing
it it all being of age to understand daddy cheated
(01:08:37):
on mommy. But this is where uh huh, I'll take
that one.
Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
I'll take that one, because there's more the story.
Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
There's principles that was always bestowed upon me.
Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
Going back to sister so and so is what brother
so and so? How we don't see brothers Sister so
and so brings now the brother?
Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
Uh go put your offering in the bucket. And in
my household, I was always taught to shelter children from
why are we doing it?
Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
No, let's do it?
Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
No, no, no, I'm using example. Okay, why are we doing
this in front of the key?
Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
So let me ask you a question. If you got
a camera over there, if there were one thing that
you wanted to get through to her. You may have
said it before, you may have tried to express it before,
but if there were one thing that you wanted to
get through to her, because it's obvious that you love
her and you care about her, and that that's a
(01:09:46):
sore spot, look into the camera like it's her and
tell her what you want her to do.
Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
I think, with all respect of my relationship, you know
she knows this, and this is not something that I've
not disclosed or this is the first time. But I
owe a service and will always be there. But all
I'm asking in return is we have to stop the
(01:10:18):
differences of certain things.
Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Just have grace, please, Like we're.
Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
Too far in to be having these situations. And for
the longest.
Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
I've protected yeah, the world.
Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
Chapter number six being Superman. So when you get through
with your cape in your boots and your phone booth
and all of that stuff, who comes to get you?
(01:11:03):
Jesus said, foxes had holes the birds of their half,
and that's the son of man has no place to
lay his head. He didn't lay his head deil, and
he laid his head on across Who where do you
lay your head? And who comes to get you? And
is it your fault that they don't come because you
have trained everybody around you that you are the problems solvers.
Speaker 3 (01:11:27):
No, it's not my fault because in that way, it's
my fault because nobody will ever know I've mastered.
Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
That's something fair, though. How can you expect people to
respond to a scream that they never heard?
Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
That's where does warriors go to weak?
Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
Where does lions go to lie? Where their eagles go
to cry? Yeah, that's that's the warriors battle.
Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
Like.
Speaker 3 (01:11:53):
He's like, yo, bro, when you're on a battlefield, you
cant sit up there and hear somebody crying and.
Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
Like, hey, hey, hey man, shoot that gun what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
But the vulnerability is if this building is on fire
and somebody is trapped on this floor, if they don't scream,
they're going to burn up in here. Now, if your
life depends on your future, depends on your happiness depends
on it, your wholeness depends on it, you better get
some vocal cords.
Speaker 3 (01:12:20):
But there's been times where nobody was seeing the signs
and I said, like, you keep coming back in a
different ways. Yes, I've been screaming to the people who
I trust the most that it is not.
Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
Where you going way? I need?
Speaker 2 (01:12:37):
What?
Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
Hey, he may not my boy, I need And then
it goes So when I go back into my space,
figure it out.
Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
How long do you go back in your space and
stay before you come out again?
Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
It's not a tangible time all the time. Okay, it
could be days, it could be weeks.
Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
It could be monthster years, oh my goodness, and nobody.
So we're left with the actor. We're lift with, We're
left the shell. That's who I didn't want to talk to.
I didn't want to talk to the shell. I wanted
to talk to the man. And I'm getting a talk
to them, No, for sure, and I'm I'm thrilled with that.
(01:13:21):
There are other people out there who are interested in
the man. Being famous does complicated It does complicate it.
Having any kind of wealth complicates it. Having people debate
you like your ping pong ball complicates it because when
people see you in certain TV, they don't think you're
(01:13:42):
a person. They a lot of people see you as
an opportunity more than they see you as an individual.
Can part again, a lot of people see you as
an opportunity more than they see you as an individual.
Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
Though, can you say it one more time.
Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Okay, A lot of people see you as an opportunity
because you are where they want to be.
Speaker 3 (01:14:06):
So a lot of people who I trusted see me
more as an opportunity than an individual.
Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
Then you have to find somebody You're not hearing me.
Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
By the time I found out, it was too late.
Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
That was in this is now. You have to find
somebody who's not interested in all of that stuff, who
really gets to see you. First of all, can hear
your scream on the frequency you're sending it is a sign?
That's the one. And then then have the courage to
(01:14:51):
be vulnerable enough to face the possibility of rejection again
to go out there and get it. And is it
worth it? Yeah, I think it's worth it. But you
gotta think it's worth it. You gotta think it's worth it.
Chapter number seven, Emotional language. You made a comment about
(01:15:13):
gender roles that became quite controversial. What do you think
about gender roles?
Speaker 3 (01:15:20):
Just could you give me the specifics because I want
to answer.
Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
Should a man also be submissive to a woman or
should a woman only take only catered to a man?
Is there a time that it's appropriate for a man
to be submissive to his woman.
Speaker 3 (01:15:39):
Now just be all that wasn't my quote. But what
I will say, yes, okay, yes, yes. I think oftentimes
I have the unfortunate reality of.
Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
Sounding like I'm choosing a side.
Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
Uh huh, Okay, you see what I'm.
Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
And while you have a microphone, a platform or being
that individual, they say, uh uh he's sexy. Uh uh
he pressed it, uh uh uh, Like let's keep But
what I don't do more times that I should be
doing is put in the mirror back on the individual
(01:16:23):
and saying, hey, bro, just as you're asking a person
for grace, my guy, you also have to give grace.
Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
It has to be reciprocated. Gender roles is no different.
Speaker 3 (01:16:36):
So when you're vulnerable or when somebody allows you to
be vulnerable, you have to show signs and sides that
it's welcoming for the truth to come out.
Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
If this statement was miss allocated, one of the things
you have to realize is that you may be responding
to somebody who is not mature enough to have the
conversation with or is so full of bitterness from what
happened to them that you become an outlet for their pain.
(01:17:07):
And the third thing that I think is really really important.
If you listen at anybody talk long enough, you're gonna
find something to disagree with them about, or they're going
to say something stupid. And you've got to be able
to live with that, because the person who's criticizing you,
if they had your microphone, eventually they get criticized too.
Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
Oh, without a shadow of it, they.
Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
Get criticized too. How have you learned how to deal
with disagreements in a relationship or are you still learning
to language? Are you still learning to language disagreements in
a relationship? Is it better to write it? Is it
better to verbalize it when you're angry? Do you have
(01:17:54):
emotional language emotion? I keep coming back to emotional language
because the emotional language is big thing for us. We
learn every other kind of language, we may even speak
in other kind of languages, but that hurd language. We'll
talk about sports, we'll talk about girls, will talk about food,
we'll talk about money, we'll talk about everything before we'll
(01:18:15):
talk about how we really feel. Okay, how fluent is
your emotional language?
Speaker 3 (01:18:24):
Well, emotional intelligence is how it was explained to me, and.
Speaker 2 (01:18:34):
Well intelligence is knowing, language is communicating. You gotta have both.
Thank you, Thank you for correcting.
Speaker 3 (01:18:41):
Yeah, with that, I've done the work or trying to
do the work to be able to this is the thing,
to be able to speak it right in a tone
that in some ways you just got to give it
to people with vinegar. It ain't no way around it.
It's a listen baby, hey, listen home. But and then
(01:19:04):
there's sometimes you have to deliver the message with honey. Yeah,
that's the intelligence versus how it is delivered. Now, what
I'm going through now is having discernment of when I
take the back seat and allow her to leave. And
that's where I'm trying to become whole. And that's the
(01:19:31):
new woman. That's a new woman. You are not married
to your grandmother. Your grandmother's woman is that generation is
fast away. Your mother's generation is fading away. The new
generation of women, not all of them, but many of
them do want that opportunity to lead to drive to
be progressive. And it doesn't make us any less man.
(01:19:54):
But it is hard when you've been trained in one
environment to become the other one. I think it's very
very difficult to do that. I want to ask you
this question. Travis Kelse and Taylor Swift had an argument.
Travis Kels recently said he's never been in an argument
with Taylor's swift and they're two and a half year relationship,
(01:20:17):
So I didn't tell it, right, They never argue in
two and a half years, they don't argue. What are
your thoughts on that? Do you think it's possible to
have the kind of relationship that they have and never argue?
Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
I don't think it's impossible. Okay, because.
Speaker 3 (01:20:35):
I can say the same, Okay, how are we identifying
an argument exactly that that's the real question.
Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
That's the real because that doesn't mean you don't have disagreement.
Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
Yeah right, you know, we could talk about it, but
that doesn't mean you're voicing your opinion as a bishop.
I'm voicing my opinion as a as a human being. Hey,
when you're in a relationship, she's voicing her opinion and.
Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
Say, hey, the baby, this is how it made me feel.
Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
And I could say, no, no, man, you wrong because
that wasn't my intentions. Okay, I apologize, I apologize. Cool,
that's not an argument. That's a discussion now for him,
I can't speak on what I genuinely don't know, but
it's not hard to believe that that may be his reality.
Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
Because that may be true.
Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
It may be hard for a person that does argue
to say, man, ain't no way in the world.
Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
He ain't argue, but just keep living.
Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
So chapter number eight, Killing Giants. The man asked you this.
So you got nine kids? Yes, sir, okay, anymore?
Speaker 1 (01:21:43):
God willing? Only God know.
Speaker 2 (01:21:47):
More you're gonna have. Man, I ain't judging that. I'm
just receiver. It as five more, three more. It allows
me to have more. That's just another blessing. Do you
ever fantasized about bringing all of them up under one roof.
Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
They have been not as consistent as I wanted, though,
And that's what hurts, because I come from that. I
come from the big family and everybody just ragging on
the same person, and that person being a funny person,
and that person being a real man at the house
or the woman of the house, or that person like that.
Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
If I had the chance to see you again, I
would ask you to write a list of everything that hurts.
The first girl, the gathering of the kids, the inability
to make commitments. There's something about writing it down and
(01:22:47):
looking at it that takes some power away from it
and it's just like right now, the budget, Yeah, I
would ask you to write out an emotional budget that
got you to better so that you spend less time
in your spacesuit and more time being the amazing, wonderful
(01:23:10):
creation that you were made to be. And this is
something you can do yourself. And as you stare at
what hurts you honestly and openly, it loses its power
as long as it hides in your chest, the blood
(01:23:33):
pumps to it. If you write it down in ink
and look at it and say, that's not the way
I should feel about that, That's not the way I'm
going to deal with that. This is the strategy for this.
This is the strategy for that. Just like you figured
out everything else, you figured out too many things in life.
(01:23:58):
I go back to the car, I go back to
the career. Most people don't know that there's life after
the gold post. I go back to espn BT all
the things you figured out everything else. You're not gonna
tell me. These four or five things we talked about
today are four or five things that you can't overcome.
(01:24:18):
And your life, which is passing really quick, the distance
between you and me is not nearly as far as
you think it is, it's worth it to fix it.
Please please hear me. Don't try to live with it,
because you're gonna look up and life is gonna be over.
(01:24:40):
Please please do the hard work, therapy, counseling, prayer, all
of it to get yourself where there is no rage
left in you while you got time, because you will
be me in a minute. I swear I was you
(01:25:03):
yesterday and all you know about God. You're smarter, you're intelligent,
you're bright, you got great personality, you got great charisma.
It's a shame that you have to live in the
apartment with an angry, frustrated, door kicking in, glass breaking
(01:25:27):
individual and then have to hide in most of the time.
On top of that, he's not that big, he's not
that tough. David, the giant can come down and you
won't even have to use all your stones. But get
him in front of you and make it an objective
(01:25:48):
for twenty twenty six. I'm gonna kill at least three
of these giants out of my life because I am
taking my life back. I am not going to allow
him to kill, steal, and destroy what's left of my youth.
You'll youth, listen you will never be young again, never never,
(01:26:19):
and all of the stuff and all of the women,
and all of the calls and all the phone's gonna
stop ringing. You got to you gotta find that place
of peace, no matter how much money you got and
how big your house is, how many square feet it is,
Please hear me. They don't mean nothing if you are
(01:26:43):
not happy in your self and can't nobody do this
for you. You have to do this for your self. You
cannot allow it to be based on your daughter's reaction,
your first girlfriend's reaction, your baby's reaction. This is not reactionary.
(01:27:06):
The thermostat can't be in their room. It's got to
be in the same room with the furnace. It's in you,
It really is in you. So if we close out
this podcast today, which doesn't even feel like a podcast,
(01:27:27):
it feels like I'm sitting up talking to somebody that
I don't know, that you say I met you before.
It feels like an opportunity to say something to you
that is really important. None of us have it all together,
(01:27:47):
none of us have it all figured out. All of
us got something written on our sheet of paper. That's okay,
But let's lower the list now so that you can
enjoy this stuff while you're young enough, because you have
built your life around a youth that's leaving, but pans
that are gonna be too big, got bedrooms you ain't
(01:28:11):
even gonna go into no more. The kids are gonna
get their own lives and come see you on the holidays.
You gotta live with you. And I tell you like
I would tell my own son, youth is a vapor.
(01:28:33):
It's like steam on a mirror in the bathroom after
a shower. By the time you draw off, it's gone.
You just got a minute to fix this. And none
of those girls, and none of those jobs, and none
of that money is gonna be able to fix it.
(01:28:56):
And I think you came here for me to tell
you that. And I pray you hear me, because I
don't want you to turn into a bitter old man
with a lot of excuses as to why he wasted
(01:29:21):
his life and wasted it rich. It's not like you're
sleeping up under a bridge, but you are sleeping up
under a bridge. It's not like you don't have anything,
but you don't have anything. It's not like you don't matter,
(01:29:46):
but if where it counts you don't matter, and only
you can fix that. Only you can fix that. More
money can't fix it. Bigger house house in Paris can't
fix it. South Africa can't fix it. Only you can
(01:30:06):
fix that. Because every time you get on a plane,
it's gonna get on a plane with you, and you're
gonna look around and all of that black hair is
gonna be white, and the hat won't hide it. It's
gonna turn white. It's gonna turn white. Your knees are
(01:30:26):
gonna get stiffs, your body's gonna ache, and it's gonna
be too late to fix it. For the few people
that you really really care about, that short list of
people who are holding your thermostat right now, you gotta
get your thermostat back. You gotta do what you can
(01:30:50):
to explain it and regardless to them receiving it while
you're living or after you're gone, you gotta get to
a place of peace about that, because you're a Please
hear me. You are running out of the time.
Speaker 3 (01:31:08):
I know.
Speaker 2 (01:31:12):
You are running out of time. Thank you for being
on the show today. Thank you. This was amazing of phenomenon.
I loved it. I love you, Yeah, I love you.
(01:31:35):
I just want to thank you. I I received you
know what you said.
Speaker 3 (01:31:46):
And listening to understand I didn't want to interject. I
appreciate your grace. Going back to the first time I
met you, Yeah, we were in LA You were with
your family at the pond.
Speaker 1 (01:32:03):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (01:32:03):
Yes, and when you came in you passed me as
I was checking into my reservation. And people forget how
much I really was in church or I come from
church and I looked. I said, amen, hey that's tdj's
(01:32:28):
and yeah, I met you there.
Speaker 2 (01:32:31):
There is something really special about you. Don't let those
rats heat it up. Don't do that. Thank you, you
(01:32:51):
got something. Hey everybody, I want to take this time
to thank you for watching the Next Chapter podcast. If
this Converse station inspired you, helps you reflect on an
idea or spark something new inside of you, make sure
to like, comment, and subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. Remember,
(01:33:16):
life isn't about how you begin, it's about how you
finished strong, So start your next chapter with us right here.
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Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.
iHeartOlympics: The Latest
Listen to the latest news from the 2026 Winter Olympics.
Milan Cortina Winter Olympics
The 2026 Winter Olympics in Milan Cortina are here and have everyone talking. iHeartPodcasts is buzzing with content in honor of the XXV Winter Olympics We’re bringing you episodes from a variety of iHeartPodcast shows to help you keep up with the action. Follow Milan Cortina Winter Olympics so you don’t miss any coverage of the 2026 Winter Olympics, and if you like what you hear, be sure to follow each Podcast in the feed for more great content from iHeartPodcasts.