HILARY DUFF: The Human Behind the Headlines (Her Most Honest Chapter Yet)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Everybody has their reasons, and relationships are difficult, especially with
your faces.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Question.

Speaker 1 (00:05):
As painful as it feels to share, when I decided
to make this record, I could only talk about the
things that I've gone through.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Hey, everyone, welcome back to on Purpose, the place you
come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest
is someone that we've been excited for such a long time.
The energy in the studio has been electric for her arrival.
And I'm not being hyperbolic or overhyping. I really really
mean it. I'm speaking today to the one and only
Hillary Duff, actress, singer, author, and entrepreneur whose career has

(00:41):
grown up alongside an entire generation that I seem to
have in my office. First known to many as Lizzie Maguire,
She's continued to evolve as an artist and storyteller, balancing creativity,
family and reinvention. Hillary is now entering a new chapter
with their sixth studio album, Luck or Something, her first
full length release in over a decade, out February twenty,

(01:04):
twenty twenty six, and you can see her on her
Lucky Metur World tour, kicking off this June. Do Not
miss out. Will put the link to the tickets in
the bio. Thank you so much, Hillary Duff. Welcome to
on Purpose.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
I'm so excited to be here. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
We are very excited. I cannot tell you. I want
to tell you because it's so important. I woke up
this morning and everyone's like, you know, this is our
super Bowl, right, And I was like what, Like I
was trying to figure out one the day and they're like, yeah,
Hillary Duff is coming to Like that was the reaction,
people like, this is our super Bowl. Forget this weekend.
No one shares like the excitement in the house and
everyone wants pictures. Everyone has asked my permission. I was like,

(01:42):
I will ask Hillary. I usually don't allow. You know,
it's just but the energy around the excitement that you
bring to people. Yeah, I mean, how does that feel
because you've done it for so long, but you still
bring this like really electric energy to everyone who's a
fan of yours and has been for so long.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
I swear to god, I'm not trying to do an
album plug right now, but.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
I just feel lucky.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
I feel like whatever reason my purpose is to be
here is like to connect with people, and I've had
the joy of being able to do it for twenty
plus years, and some of that's felt high and some
of that's felt low. But I genuinely feel like people
are excited to like meet me and say hi, and
like have a quick moment, and it just feels like

(02:26):
it feels normal, Like it feels really like genuine always,
and I'm always met with that, and it's a really
you know, I'm not saying it's not a big responsibility sometimes,
but you know, being met with like excitement and someone
being like you've meant so much to me, it's it's
a lovely feeling.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, No, it's definitely there. I've got people have got
stories of coming to your tours at thirteen years old
and saying ridiculous things to you, like in my team
and meeting you for a few moments and just having
the best experiences. But I was thinking, yeah, you've you've
meant this for twenty five years. You've had You've been
so many things to so many people, to the cause,
you've played the music of course, now your new album.
What's the version of Hillary Duff that you want people

(03:05):
to meet now at this point in your life.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Part of the reason this you know return to music
is feeling so good to me. Is just that it's
like feels completely like rooted in my truth and who
I am and what I live with and you know,
introducing people to my past ten years and knowing that
we are going to connect on many levels of experiences

(03:29):
and feelings and disappointments and celebrations and like everything in between.
So that that's kind of what I want them to
know about me now and who I want them to meet,
like they have known me my whole life. I have,
you know, played a character that never grew up on TV,
you know, she stayed that same agent. I'm not that

(03:49):
I feel that that's like the public consensus around me anymore.
I think people are pretty familiarized with me and who
I am, but I care a lot less and I
feel like truth is more important than like politeness and
all of that. So that's what the record feels like
to me. And that's kind of just how I feel

(04:10):
comfortable moving through the world. You know, I don't know
if that's just with age or being a mom of four,
or being in a settled relationship or being in the
industry for as long as I have, with many ups
and downs.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah, it's I feel like people are getting to meet
a mature, real version of you, and one that is
very accepting and embracing of this amazing journey you've had,
which is so beautiful. I think as humans we tend
to have this perspective of like, well, now I am
who I am, and I've like given up everything, and

(04:44):
I feel like you have this beautiful way of being,
Like I love those experiences and they mean so much
to me, and now everyone gets to come on the
journey with me.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, at least what I'm hearing, I think that's true.
I think that's absolutely true.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
And I get to like keep the pieces that still
work for me and you know, obviously continue to grow,
but I like move with like a confidence and like
a knowing that just occurred, you know, also also compiled
with like a messy in security, and all of those
things are just like what makes up the feeling accepting

(05:18):
of all the things that come our way and that
like we discovered on our path.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
You know. I'm always fascinated by, especially for people who've
been in the public eye for so long, like the
experiences that they had that we were less aware of.
And I wanted to ask you, what's a childed experience
you have that you feel defines who you are today.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
This is so random, but like just like a huge
standout memory for me and my childhood is like catching
tadpoles in tic Tac boxes in New brom Fules in Texas,
and it was something that we did after school like
almost every day. It's a huge part of me feeling
like I have my feet on the ground constantly, even
in this you know, kind of out of body experience

(05:58):
of a career that I've had and like navigated through.
I think like being from Texas and being so normal
and kind of grubby and dirty like is a part
of my personality that has helped me just be that
and not be kind of what can happen, you know,
with twenty five years in the industry.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, that's almost what's helped you stay grounded.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
I think some of those like early childhood memories of
having like a lot of like freedom, and I really
never thought that I'd raised my kids in LA and
we're having a great time, But you know, I grew
up very different than this, and I'm happy to have
those roots.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, Yeah, that's amazing. I'm going to come to you
for all the tips I.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Have someone I'm still figuring it out, but I do
know a lot.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah, I will say that I had some of my
favorite people who grew up here, Like I have a
couple of people on my team who obviously I'm born
and raised in London and I only moved to LA
eight years ago, but I have a couple of members
of my team that were like born and raised in
LA and like went to all the schools and they're
just like phenomenal human beings. Oh yeah, yeah, just like
the sweetest sort of the earth. And it's such a
wonderful thing to kind of redefine what it means.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
To be like at LA person.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah. Well, like, like you said, if somebody's been in
the industry for twenty five years, right, did you ever
think about that along the way, like on the journey
of like what am I holding on to and what
am I losing or what am I keeping? Did you
have to think about those things?

Speaker 2 (07:20):
You lose?

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Anonymity, you know, like I've completely lost that. I've lived,
you know, pretty much in the public eye since I
was ten, and probably around fifteen was when I feel
like the world started getting very like interested in what
I was wearing, who I was dating, what I was eating,
where I was like that was an interesting kind of

(07:43):
thing to navigate, where I feel like I lost some
serious innocence, you know, where you're just like, oh my god,
and then you get a lot of people constantly talking
about your life and seeing it on the cover of
magazines and all of that stuff like that was a
really strange period to also be like forming as a
person privately, and some of those like lines get blurred

(08:06):
where you're like, I'm I am this, but I am this,
and I you know, I think I've lost a lot,
and I think I've gained a lot, Like I wouldn't
change it, but I've become very tough. Like it's not
an easy it's not an easy industry, and I think
it's not very easy for other people to deal with

(08:27):
you in this industry. What do you mean by that
pot I think it looks very like shiny, and for
other people to cope with how it looks is a
tricky thing to navigate.

Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, was there a time when everything felt like it
was a dream from the outside, Like you're saying shiny,
but for you, you were having to really grapple with
some stuff behind the scenes.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Through all of it, you know, Yeah, navigating people is
like tricky, and that's not It wasn't like all negative.
I think I had like a great time being a
child actor. I had a great time like turning into
a pop star, like, but it is not easy behind
the scenes, and there's so much that goes on and

(09:11):
ways that you feel out of control. And now you know,
I have my own life and my family and my
family that I've created, and it's really nice to have
that pillar because all the other stuff, now this is
like fun.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
This I mean no, it is hard work.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
And to be honest, my friend, one of my my
friends is Megan Trainer, and she she texts me the
other day and she's like, I just want you to
know you have made this look seamless, and I'm so impressed,
but I know that it's hard as hell. I honestly
was like, thank you so much for saying that. I've
had the stomach flu. I like flew all my kids

(09:50):
out because I missed my family so much. But like
they all have like coughs and stuff. He noses and
I have to like sing on stage at night, and
we got trapped because of weather and then all my
gear and my crew and like it's just all so crazy.
But I think that this time around, I get to
pick how much crazy I can tolerate.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
It's probably more comforting to hear that someone sees the hardship.
Then you make it look easy. It's almost like hearing
make it look easy, you're like, oh, but you know
on the inside, it's never that, And it's almost like
the easier it looks, the harder it must be you
were reminding me of. I listened to this Ted talk
years ago and it was this model forget her last name,
her name's Cameron something, and the Ted talk is called

(10:29):
looks on Everything, Trust Me I'm a model, and it's
just really f fascinate. Yeah, it's fascinating, and she's she's
a brilliant speaker, and she really she talks about kind
of what you were just saying, Like, so she shows
images of what modeling she was doing, and then she
tells us what age she was and shows us a
real picture of that time. And obviously models are different

(10:50):
because with you, people are seeing all of your life.
In one sense, with a model, you're only seeing the
picture of them on a campaign and at that time
we weren't really following models on social media or wherever else.
And so she shows like this a picture me at fourteen,
like smiling with her parents, and then this is a
picture of me at fourteen modeling and she's like romantically
posing with this guy. And she's talking about how much

(11:11):
of a disconnect there was between her real life and
the life that as a model she was portraying.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Right. Also, when you're a model, you don't get to
be like, I'm not really comfortable wearing that. I don't
really want to do that pose. You're a model, right,
so they're like, no, who're hiring you to? This is
what we wanted. And then right, it's a little different
to be like an actor who she was posing in
a photo shoot.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that direction of just not having agency,
not having choice, especially at that age. And I was
thinking about for you, you've talked very openly about the eating
disorders you had, and just like what that looked like
and how you know, at the time, so many people
were pit against each other and the culture was different.
Hopefully it's different, you can tell me if it is,
but that's what it felt like at the time. What

(11:55):
was it like for you to get comfortable being comfortable
in your own skin. What did that take? Like today
you're saying, like, you know, it's not easy. It's still
hard work, but I'm kind of in control and in charge,
Like I feel better, but yeah, talk to me about
some of the stops on that journey and what that
looks like for so many people who may not grow
up in the public eye but also deal with the
same challenges.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
I feel like I've actually always had quite a bit
of like self confidence and a good This is such
such a lame term, like a good head on my shoulders. Yeah,
but I have I, you know, I in my friend groups.
When I was a teenager, I was like pretty confident,
but like also mixed with the insecurities of like your
teenhood and your twenties or your early twenties, Like of

(12:39):
course those normal things came up, and then on top
of it, I was dealing with like, yes, people commenting
on my body at a young age and starting to
get photographed, and people like asking you how many times
you weigh yourself or comparing you to people that were
thinner than you or other girls, you know in your
like line of work. And I struggled for a little

(13:01):
while there, just trying to fit a certain mold and
have control over something in my life. Thankfully, that was
like pretty short lived, but definitely toyed with it during
a time of like I'm on tour, I'm filming a movie,
I'm doing you know, like a lot of moving parts

(13:24):
to my life and just trying to also like forms
as a person. Honestly, I think it took just time
and bigger things happening in my life that like having children,
that took the spot of the other things that didn't
mean as much to worry about, and luckily those things

(13:47):
felt easy to me to replace. I think having success
at such a young age makes making like work choices
a little harder because there's like a pressure of a
level of success. And I think once I did have kids,
and you know, my phone wasn't ringing as much, and
I wasn't able to show up to work as much

(14:08):
and say yes as often, I ended up just saying
no a whole bunch and not being worried about like
sitting still. And a lot of great things came from
that decision, and a lot of confidence came from that decision.
A lot of my steadiness has come from being in
such a great stable relationship that's helped me a whole

(14:29):
bunch get through some pretty heavy themes in my life.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, I'm excited to hear about that more, especially after
what you told me earlier of that. Okay, where did
that early confidence come from? That good head on your shoulders?
And I love that, and I think so many And
the reason I ask you is, there are so many
young people who listen to our show, or young parents
with young kids who want their kids to have that
good head on their shoulders and have that confidence. Where

(14:55):
did that come from for you? And how were you
able to hold onto it?

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Think a part of it is who you are, and
then I think a whole bunch of it is your
influence around you, you know. And I I had a
mom who was very supportive of a dream, you know,
and she made me take it seriously because it was

(15:23):
a big change for our life to like leave Texas
and come to LA.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
But she also didn't.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
Are like livelihood wasn't waited on whether or not I
booked a job or not, you know. And I think
that I found confidence in work and working, you know,
But I think it was.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
A little more weighted.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
But like when I see my son play a really
good soccer game, I see his confidence building. And when
I see, you know, he is the captain of his
football team at his school, sorry, soccer team at his school,
and he well, you can say that, you're like you
had to write.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
Yeah, yeah, we don't need to edit that. Sorry, I
had to.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
I see his confidence built when I you know, so,
I think it was just that like mine happened to
be acting, but those things were confidence builders at times,
they were confident strippers. I had a lovely support system,
and I also got to be a kid like that

(16:31):
wasn't all taken away. I had like normal friends, and
I felt the highs and lows of friendship and being
confident not confident, and dating and all of that stuff.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
I think some of it you're born with and some
of it is like what is what you're surrounded by
and what you what's modeled for you.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yeah, we were talking about this a bit earlier off camera,
but I was saying that I feel like a lot
of confidence when I was a kid came from the
fact that I always knew my mom would catch me
if I was to fool, So it didn't come from
feet like I would never fall because I had challenges
and got bullied or different things would happen anyway, right
as it does in any kid's life. Yeah, but I
always knew my mom would catch me, and that was

(17:09):
like such, and even as a grown man today, I'm like,
I know if I called my mom she would still
catch me today, like after all those years. And that
it does build such a sense of confidence. And then
I think the other side of what you're saying, which
I appreciate, which I think we're finally realizing, is that
confidence does come from competence. It comes from doing hard
things and putting yourself out there and taking action. And

(17:31):
for you, as acting for your son, it's playing soccer
and those steps and seeing yourself go out there and
play a game. There's confidence that comes from building a
skill or building competence that doesn't come from just sitting
there and thinking about it or you know, hoping that
you naturally feel that way, because people may not be
born that way. Yeah, and so both of those ideas resonate.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Matt and I talk about this with the kids all
the time, and it could be as simple as like
them going and making their own water instead of just
being like I'm thirsty and we're like, oh, let me
do it for you, you know, like sometimes we do.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Of course, we like our kids to we like to take.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
Care of our kids, but you know, we have the
conversation a lot that's like the more they they do,
the more they can do, and the more you can do,
the better you feel about yourself, you know. So just
being trying to hold them accountable, to be competent for
their level, yes, is something that I feel like helps

(18:26):
form your confidence, yes, and like will make.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Us feel okay about sending them off into the world.
At some point, I remember.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
I'm not recommending this, that I'm not condoning a tour
lifes room. Bad friends who were parents, and they had
this particular methodology that they were training their kids with.
But we were sitting on one side of a table
and hanging out and their child was like playing with
a candle on the other side, and my natural instinct,
I don't have kids, My natural instinct was to go
take the kid away from the candle because obviously there's

(18:54):
fire and the natural instinct, and they were like, no, no, no,
just leave it, like they're just playing and figuring it out,
and I was like, wow, that's really bold.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Like hoope, she's wearing a ponytail.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
Yeah exactly. I was like, wow, you know and hair
was very short that she didn't she had and grown
the hair up, but she was like two years old
or something, yeah, maybe three. And I was just like, yeah,
it's not again, not recommending, not condoning, not saying that's
a good thing. I'm just saying that there is something
to be said for being confident at your age and
your level of experience and providing that to your children.

(19:24):
It feels like you're what you've been saying about your
relationship right now. You've said it a few times, like
it's built such a foundation for you to go through
so much. What is it that creates a foundation of
strength and peace and a relationship for you from your experience?

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Could talk about this for hours.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
That's a good thing, right.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
I think it is.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Time and just getting to the place where you can
be in the trenches with someone and they can know
everything and accept everything and help you move through things
in the best way. I mean for me, I think

(20:09):
Matt and I I always loved hanging out with him.
I loved he made me laugh like crazy. He was
such a he just kept showing up for me over
and over again. And I think coming out of you know,
being divorced and being a young mom and having a
lot of stuff happened in my family life, I think
I was just like not ready for superhealth yet and

(20:32):
someone who was like totally nice to me and wanted
to like have like a healthy relationship and and just
like keep showing up, I guess, And so it took
us a little while too. It took me a little
while to just like, I think, accept something good. And
it wasn't until we had Banks, which is our seven
year old, that I feel like I really like could

(20:55):
settle in to the relationship. When I realized like the
kind of parents we were and how we were doing
as parents together, I really remember like just feeling like
my shoulders could be like and it was really like
really a nice weight off. And then like our relationship
from there continued to just be like emotional shelter, you know,

(21:19):
instead of dramatic like craving those younger dramatic highs and
lows and just feeling better in the like steady, which
also comes with challenges. And I talk about those challenges
a lot on luck or something. It's nice to be
where we are right now and know that some of
those highs and lows feel like a snapshot of a

(21:39):
time frame instead of a continual struggle. You know.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
I love what you said about that feeling that I
think we all go through and you find your person.
I've been with my wife for thirteen years now, I'm
married for ten. Congrat thank you, And yeah, it's our
ten twadying anivisy this year, and so it's really exciting
to celebrate. But like, when I think about it that way,
I love what you said about this point that when
you first meet someone who actually loves you and is

(22:05):
kind to you, and.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
It's really hard to accept.

Speaker 3 (22:08):
It's really hard to accept both based on how others
have treated us and how we've treated ourselves. I feel
like it's a mix of both of those experiences.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
I agree with that, right, It's.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Almost like you're wrestling with it. I don't know how
I felt before in the past. Is that how you
describe it? How would you describe it?

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, and you want to like poke holes in it
to make sure it's like steady enough, you know. Yeah,
that's what I felt like I was doing. I think
it added an extra pressure that I had a child already,
and like I didn't want to expose him to something
that wasn't like for sure going to stick and work
out for me.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
I mean, I'm just feel so settled in a good way,
Like I'm so happy that I'm like, God, your intuition
works and it's good because it is really it is.
To commit your life to someone is a very big choice.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah, after you do it and you spend a few
years together, you realize how big it is. Right, Like
I was like when I made that commitment, I actually
don't think I had a clue what that commitment meant, right,
and then years later you're like, oh, okay, now I'm
actually living that commitment. Yes, when I made it that
day on my wedding day, it was kind of just
like it it felt naturally, it felt real, but I

(23:19):
almost hadn't really experienced what it meant to say that,
if that makes any sense.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
How old were you when you got married?

Speaker 3 (23:25):
We were I was twenty eight and my wife was
twenty five and so.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
So pretty young. Yeah yeah, yeah, I wonder if it's
like that by design?

Speaker 3 (23:33):
Yeah, what do you mean, because marriage.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Is like so hard and it's such a big choice
that I wonder if you do it like at a
slightly younger stage of your life or else you wouldn't
do it because it's such like a crazy.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
That's a good fight.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
It's such a crazy thing to commit, it is.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
It is. Yeah, me and my wife are talked about
that before. I feel like it was older compared to
people we knew back in London. We got married late.
Oh you did, compared to a lot of our friends.
You got married very early.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Then you guys moved to la and you're like, no,
one's very exactly.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
That we were doing, Like, oh wait, there's no rules.
This is great, Like you know, we've got friends like
marrying it for you having kids afoid, Like no one cares.
And it was nice. It was refreshing actually from coming
from a culture where people were getting married at twenty two,
twenty three, twenty four to twenty five and being able
to have that space. But we've talked about that many
times where we're like, oh my gosh, we've grown so much.
And my wife especially, she feels like she's been so

(24:23):
many different versions of herself in the last thirteen years that.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
It's amazing and speaks volumes of your relationship. That she
could be so many versions of herself in a marriage,
do you know what I mean? Like take on, you said,
lots of different versions of herself. It's very hard to
like grow. I think a lot of the growth that
I did outside of motherhood happened before I was in
a relationship or in between being in a relationship, which

(24:48):
is like kind of just being alone with yourself.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yeah. Right, So basically you're saying that I must be amazing, amazing.
I'm so patient and so flexible, and I.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
Didn't want to like pump the ego.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
I know, thank you, and that was what I was
getting at. Yeah, my wife's is so lucky that I've
been like Soti. It's been the other way around on many,
many occasions. But marriage is so hot. It is so

(25:26):
hard to grow with someone. It is so hard to
continue to grow. It's so hard to grow at a
different pace. It's so hard to grow at opposite paces.
Sometimes it feels like, and yeah, what would you say
the biggest lessons you took away from your first marriage
that really have helped you in that healing transition.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
I don't love to talk about this too much, because
you know, I felt like in that time of my life,
I was so ready to get married, I was in
something that I really adored. I was ready to have
a baby. I was ready to have something my own,
you know that I could just like focus on and

(26:03):
it be mine. And like my life felt out of
my hands a little bit at that moment, and I
just wanted to like shrink it. I've been pretty open about,
you know, being a divorce person and what that's like,
and being a single mom and being you know kind
of like choosing to like end a family is a
huge horrible choice to make, but I also co parent

(26:27):
that with that person, and we do a great job
mostly sometimes there's bumps and frustrations, but again ebbs and flows, right,
but like we adore this person that we created and
we do a great job. This is like before, you know,
conscious uncoupling was like a coined a term, and we

(26:48):
really tried to do that. I really tried to do that,
Like you just grow, yeah, and I think I did.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
You struck me as someone who like follows your intuition.
You even said it earlier when you were talking about
you can't relationship. You're like I'm so glad my intuition
is right.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
And then I was like, and the album's called Luck
or Something, and so I want to ask you, what's
the relationship between intuition and luck? And has your career
and journey and even this inspiration behind this album? How
much of it has been luck and how much of
it's been intuition.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
I think a lot of it has been intuition, and
I think that falls under the category of the or
Something part of it where I'm like, actually, I deserve
some credit here. I feel incredibly lucky. I don't know
why me, but I do know that I've also worked
really hard, and I know that I've had to go
through a lot.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
The title is pretty loaded.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
And can mean a whole and does mean a whole
bunch of different things to me, like what I just said,
But also it's a Koy way of like responding to
a question I'm constantly asked, which is like, how are
you so normal? How did you get through this? And
I'm like, luck or Something, I got it. But I
think the or something is the real weighted It's.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
Good when you think you're lucky and everyone else realizes
it was hard work. It's kind of what I think
is like the accurate assessment. Anyone that I know that
I believe has achieve something amazing. When I say achieve
something amazing, I think it's it could be being grounded
in a difficult industry, it could be something athletically successful,
like whatever you define as greatness or success or winning.

(28:21):
It's the problem becomes when everyone else views it as lucky,
and you know you view it as hard work and
it's like beautiful when like you said, I'd see myself
as lucky, like I don't know why me like that's beautiful,
and then if we can, but it's always the other
way around. It's almost like, yeah, people like to think.
I got asked that the other day. I was asked
someone's asking me in an interview like why do you

(28:41):
think people listen to you and why do they connect
with you? And I was like, to be honest, I
always struggle with that question because I feel really grateful
and fortunate that anyone even cares to listen to me.
I remember speaking to rooms of like three people, and
so I feel completely humbled by where it's gone. And
then I was like, at the same time, like, I
think it's because of me. I'm doing this for a
long time. I've done it for longer offline than I

(29:03):
have online.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah, Like honestly, when I zoom out, and like, it
would be hard for you to answer this way, but
I'm like, probably because you're smart, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Probably because you're smart.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Probably because I think that you have a gift and
you can connect with people. I feel like I have
a similar gift like that, like some for some reason,
I resonate with people in a certain way. And but
like you have to take credit for what you build,
and you also can feel lucky, and you also can
feel immense gratitude and you know, how did I get here?

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Feelings? But like you're also smart and you're good at
what you do.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
Very sweet. I appreciate that. I appreciate coming from you.
But I like what you're saying about the idea of
all these things can coexist. Yeah, And that's why I
like the luck or something. I think you're so right,
Like we're allowed to feel all of these emotions. Like
there's pride, there's gratitude, there's luck, there's intuition, there's and
confusion even still, and insecurities and and everything, and it's

(30:05):
almost like when we're forced to be like, tell me
the one thing that changed your life, and you're like, yeah, yeah,
it's I luck or something is the new new answer.
Now that's what I'm going to use every time. I'm
gonna yeah, if I'm going to use it now, I'm
going to encourage lots of people to use it because yeah,
and I honestly we've only met briefly, but like, the

(30:25):
the impact you've had on people proves that there's so
much hard work, so much talent, so I should give
like so much, you know, because you can't have that.
People grow up watching a lot of people, it doesn't
mean that you carry that same impact. So same back
at you, and it's yeah, it's it's something that's very
visceral and in anyone that's followed you for a long time.
I wanted to jump into your album because I've been

(30:47):
getting to listen to it, which I've really enjoyed, which
is so wonderful for me. And I'm I'm very deep
into because I love words and I love spoken word,
I love poetry, I love I took out some lyrics
that really I felt were beautiful and powerful, so I
may read your own lyrics back to you. I can't
sing them back to you because I can't sing to
say my life, but I may read them back to you.

(31:08):
But I wanted to ask you about this one. So
you say in your song weather for Tennis, you're right,
or you sing I'm a seasoned apologist for the people
who I love. I'm an amateur psychologist, the key to
everyone's handcuffs, keep the peace because I'm a kid of
divorce and you're the starter of wars and there's no
winning in yours. Where does that show up in your

(31:30):
life today? Like? Where did that come from? And where
does it show up?

Speaker 1 (31:33):
I think it's talking about being the person who's smooth
silver and makes everything right and extends themselves and continues
to show up and try to make things easy for everyone.
And you're talking about being in a relationship that is
going to keep playing a game, and you know, towards

(31:56):
the end of the song you finally realize, like I'm
going to put it end to this. The message behind
it is a feeling that a lot of people can
relate to of just it's exhausting to keep up always
being the one to make things right or to carry
the burden or to make the call, or to stay

(32:18):
the bigger person, and keeping the peace because you're a
kid of divorce is obviously very relatable. People don't need
too much explaining on that one. I think it's definitely
a role that I play in my life. And Matt
had this amazing idea for the song. We started playing
tennis together, and I think that it was definitely inspired

(32:38):
by just like the game of tennis and kind of
applying it to a relationship, a romantic relationship that's probably
not going to work out.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
Expand on that further with a tennis analogy. For me, the.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Chorus is if it ain't the weather for tennis, then
I guess we can argue until dinner time. So it's
just kind of about a game being played and a
cycle that is constant repeating. Right before we started writing
the record together, maybe a year before, I was like,
if we're going to last the long haul, we need sport.

(33:11):
We need to learn how to play a sport together.
So we picked up tennis, and I also forced him
to learn how to ski, which is like one of
his favorite things to do now and we love to ski.
But I think that I think the chorus was inspired
for him because we had started playing the game of tennis.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
I think you're spot on. I think so many kids
can feel like they were the peacemaker in their family.
I know plenty of people who have gone to therapy
or talked about that with me and this idea of
just they were the one trying to like calm everyone down.
And people have different versions of this, right Like you
meet comedians who did it through making everyone laugh and
then that becomes their journey and that's very on the

(33:49):
nose example. But all of us have played some sort
of role of being mediators. I often feel is that
I do what I do today because I mediate my parents'
marriage growing up, and so I was the kid who
is like a ten years old like listening to both
sides and helping them connect and trying to find the
points at which they could relate to each other. And

(34:09):
I don't regret doing that. I'm actually very happy I
did that. I gave me great skills for life.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
My parents divorced when I was around eighteen, and I
feel like that was a really hard time.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Because I was like kind of an adult.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
And then you like have You're like, did they just
stay together to get us to this point and now
you have guilt that they were like unhappy or just
like so many different things.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
I gave up being the piecework of it when I
became around twenty one. So I remember that time vividly
in my life where I did.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
That feel like giving that up, making the choice to
be like, I'm not doing that anymore.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
Yeah, it was tough because there were certain members of
my family that felt that I was giving up my responsibility.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
And You're like, this actually wasn't my job in the
first place.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
Correct, And so so that was the I remember that
being the tension where I was like, I love my parents,
I'm grateful for everything they've given me. I'm really valuable
and I wouldn't be who I amped that if I
didn't have this situation that I grew up in. But
I think now's the time that I've spent however many
obviously I didn't start meeting when I was four years old,

(35:17):
but I've spent whatever ten years in my life trying
to figure this out and I'm not capable. So there's
a part of me that felt like a failure. There's
part of me that felt like, you know, like that
I was right, and I was free to give up
the media and the peace part that you're talking about.
But I think that's what's so interesting is that I
gave up that responsibilit at twenty one, even though I
saw the decision at ten. But did you ever get

(35:39):
answers to your wise and your questions or was that
something that you kind of found on your own.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
I think it was really hard for them to be
honest with each other, and there was a lot of
like fighting, and it wasn't not like they could hang
out and be in the same room. And so when
it came from me getting divorced, I was like, I'm
not going to have that. Yeah, we're going to be
like do holidays together as much as we can. And
not that it was always easy, but it felt way
easier than the alternative.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
Yeah you know, yeah, yeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
So yeah, I don't.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
I don't. My dad and I don't really have much
of a relationship and we don't speak very often. It's
hard because I think there's not a whole bunch of answers,
and it's you kind of hear one side and then
try to take from it what you believe and then
you know the same on the other and it's really
it's really hard. I think if a family breaks apart

(36:29):
very dramatically, it's hard to find your way back sometimes,
and some people want to and some people don't.

Speaker 3 (36:36):
Yeah, it's I feel like as the older you get,
you realize you've got to answer the questions yourself and
find you've got to kind of find the full stop
by yourself, kind of like the point that you're making
in this lyric of just I've decided I'm not taking
on this responsibility and whatever. In whatever way you played it,
do you do you feel sometimes do you feel free
of it? Or is it? Is it always like something
that no, as you played that role, you're always kind

(36:58):
of conditioned to play that role.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
I think it's a little bit like muscle memory, where
you lean on it and then you have to remember
some of the dough therapy or wherever you find your solace,
Like you have to keep pushing those good habits or
good things to say to yourself to cope and make
different choices.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
It's almost like that conditioning pulls you back and then
you've got to find this new thought process, almost like
learning new lines as an actor and going, well, yeah,
this is the new life that I want to build.
And even what you just said about how you knew
that when you went through it, you didn't want to
mirror some of those behaviors, and you're like, no, we're
going to do We're going to do holidays together and
we're going to change things, because that is that muscle

(37:40):
that is tearing away, that muscle memory and going I'm
going to change it.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
Yeah, there's another amazing lyric that I love that I
took apart here. So this one, Okay.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Don't tell me what song it's from?

Speaker 3 (37:56):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
I like to play games.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
Oh okay, Oh I didn't know. Okay, fine, if you
want to play game, we're gonna play some games later
we get okay, but you get I won't tell you
what song it's wrong, okay, So the first question will
be what song is it from? After I read okay, okay,
I like this. This is good. I should have done
it like that. We come from the same home, the
same blood, a different explanation of the same thought. People

(38:17):
ask if I've seen you, and honestly, I hate it
because the truth is that I need to. But there's
no way to relay it, not if we don't talk.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
So that's from we don't talk, and this is a
hard one for me. This is a really tough one.
My sister and I don't speak, and I think in

(38:54):
my adulthood, I've come across more and more people that
are having this experience, and as painful as it feels
to share, when I decided to make this record, I
could only talk about the things that I've gone through,

(39:17):
Like there would be no purpose to make a record
after ten years then to be than to face you know,
what it's been like. So that's my truth, and I
really worked hard to lyrically make sure that I'm just

(39:42):
speaking about my experience. You know, it's very hard to
be to be you know, a person who's like had
their life exposed in the industry for twenty five years.
And we were talking about you know that earlier, tiptoeing
around kind of what the elk avesband for some of it.

(40:03):
But yeah, that is it's a very vulnerable song and
it's a very raw part of my existence. And I
hope it's not forever, but it's for right now. Sorry,
there's a tissue.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
That locked and loaded because this happens.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
Thank you for being so vulnerable and open with me.
Because it's can't imagine how hard it is, and I'm
so sorry that you and error going through that. I'm
sure it's hard on you both in different ways.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Totally. I agree with that, it's definitely a raw nerve.
Everybody has their reasons and there's relationships are difficult, even
with your family.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Especially with your family especially.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yeah, I think it's it's easier when you aren't connected
that way.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
And it seems like you yen for that really back
because you say I need to like it's not it's
not something that you're kind of throwing away or giving up.
As you said, there's you. There's a part of you
that seems hope it changes.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
That's the person I grew up with. The only one
I really hope she.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
I really hope she hears the song. Yeah, I hope
she hears it, and I hope it's at least the
beginning of some way back to whatever it is that's
good for both of you and that you desire, because
whatever that looks like. That's what's hard with family is
that we assume that good looks like everything's close and
everything's perfect, and that's what we think when we're growing

(41:38):
up and we get older, and we go, oh, wait,
it doesn't it doesn't always look.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Like that you desire, like in family like this picture,
and that's not reality a lot of the times for people.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
And so you're like, you get to a certain age.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
I mean I have my own family who is put
first no matter what, and I've gotten to make different
rules for my family.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
But yeah, you get to a certain age.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Where you're like, oh, that doesn't feel good or that's
not right, or that's you know, it's very hard to
think of family and the way that you grow up
thinking of family when yes, so much shifts and changes,
and I love my family in certain ways in certain memories,
and also like huge struggles have you know occurred, not

(42:28):
like putting that one responsibility on anybody involved, you know,
assuming some myself. So you know, it's very complicated.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
Yeah, I think family is complicated. You absolutely right. Thank
you for being so open and honest the you know,
to the point that we can tell just how hard
this is for you and how heavy it all is.
And I'm sure everyone is listening right now is thinking that. God,
I know exactly what relationship in my life makes me
feel that way, whether it's the sibling of father, a

(42:57):
parent or family member, and so yeah, yeah, thank you
for going there. I'm going to do one more. You
can guess the song through one more lyrics.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
It yea lyrics made me cry.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
I hope I'm not making you cry. I hate to
be the one making you cry. That is not my
intention whatsoever. And I and I respect you too much
to do you tell me how you feel about stuff
like yeah, this is the last lyric of doing so
we went, I promise, Okay. What I find fascinating about
you is your lyrics are so real and raw and clear,

(43:31):
and they are so resonant with with anyone and everyone
who's going through similar things through you are, which I
think many many people are. And so often when I
read lyrics they're so metaphorical. But you was like poetic
but real, and so this one you can guess the song.
So the lyric goes, I wish I could sleep on planes,

(43:52):
and then my father would really love me. He'd show
up on my wedding day and tell my family they're
all so lucky, tell me how he wish he stayed,
and that he never meant to disappoint me. Until then,
I'll exist as the optimist.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
I think more just.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Being very vulnerable and open about what it's like to
be in a family that you know your parents aren't
together and you don't have, you know, relationships with both
your parents. It's devastating and it feels I don't think.
I think it doesn't matter what age you are. You

(44:33):
want your parents to feel like they care about you.
And big portion of my existence hasn't felt like that.
I don't know if that's the truth, but that's how
it feels, and so that's just what I'm sharing in
that song The Optimist. I love that song so much.
I think I live in this world that like I'm

(44:56):
really happy, I'm really like goofy, I'm really silly. A
lot of hard things have happened to me, and I
think that with the album, I wanted to share that
emotional depth and that some of that heaviness, but like
Disguised with you know, a very joyful track, and I

(45:17):
think that's like very much how I like to exist
in the world is like this balance of these two
things can exist at the same time. And you know,
the record is a pop record. It feels like you
want to blast in your car at least I do.
That's when I knew it was done, you know, But
they're like life topics, and life is really challenging, really hard,

(45:38):
really tricky to make the right calls and the wrong calls.
All it's all just a process, and like a very
beautiful and messy one. And I feel like the record
has just so much of that in it, you know,
it's like a it feels like a capture of ten
years of different things.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
Flying at you.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
I know you have this other song that we will love.
I'm not reading out anyonder exactly. I know you have
this other song that we all love called Mature. I
was just thinking as you were saying that that there's
so much maturity in being able to be like, hey,
I'm fine and goofy, and at the same time there's
all this stuff going on and yeah, and I think
that's everyone who's growing up with you and is experiencing

(46:19):
all of that too. And I feel like only knowing
one side, especially through someone that people have followed and
continue to follow for so many years, you feel less alone.
Feel like people are going to feel less alone when
they listen to this album, but in a good way,
not just like in their fields, but like you said,
blasting it out. It's a part record. Like I love
that juxtaposition of making people feel less alone but also

(46:42):
making them have fun.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
I love that juxtaposition too, And I love that word
because playing the few little shows that I played before
I go out this summer was such a cool feeling
of like the audience one is like my age. So
they're all adults now and we've grown up together, and

(47:04):
it was like, I'm playing these old songs that feel
so good to people and hold such a sweet, like
innocent part of their being. You know, some like that
meant something to them at a very like pivotal eight
coming of age, and to get to hold that memory
for people is such a badge for me. But then

(47:27):
also to meet them with like the new songs and
kind of experiences that life is provided was a really
cool experience. To have them sing like these songs that
they that they have from the record, you know, to
seing them and us be adults and be connecting on
that level is like really really powerful.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
So it's like this.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Really cool, floaty feeling of like this thing that feels
really good that we get to lean on and like
celebrate from our past.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
But you know, be like me too, you know in
the now.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Like that says so much about you because I think
that you saying that I want people to have that
experience that meant so much to them, even though you
have transformed, you have grown, you have changed, you have
gone through all of this. That just speaks like volumes
of your character honestly, because it's so easy for people
to want to like be like tells me, then I'm
going to leave that behind this and then you mean now,

(48:21):
and that's generally what we do is humans, so like, yeah,
that was done and it was cool and yeah, and
it's like for you to be like, no, I just
love doing it because it brings people so much joy
and I get to share this part of them Like
that juxtaposition truly is yeah. I just want to thank
you for that because I think it shows just how
much you have in your heart of wanting to make
people happy and wanting to funding them to have these moments.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
And I think it.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
You know, I don't know if it would have been
possible for me to do ten years ago. I don't
know why now all of a sudden, I really don't
know how to answer, like what shifted and what made
me find such peace with my past, you know, but
I'm really proud of it now and I get to
go and celebrate it, and it feels like I get
to be a part of it with everybody instead of

(49:02):
trying to like shy away from it and be like
I'm an adult or I'm changed or I'm different or
that's not me anymore. Like that is a part of
me and it will always be like a part of me,
and it feels really fun to celebrate that with people
that it meant something to.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
It's almost that we all go through pain and then
there's transformation, and maybe at ten years ago there was
some transformation happening in your life, but now you're coming
back as a celebration, and a celebration is like how
we look back at our whole life. Like I went
to three seventieth birthdays last year, and I looked at
life like totally different because I'm thirty eight same yeah, yeah,

(49:55):
were the same age, And I went to onto these
three seven year old birthdays. Two of them I'm very
close with, one of them I'm becoming closer with. And
they had like their kids, grandkids, they had all their
friends that were important at different phase of their life.
And everyone gave speeches and like it was and I'm
a stucker for this stuff, like I love to love,

(50:16):
love and friendship and all this stuff. Yeah, and I
was like, wow, like when you're seventy, like life just
looks so different and it's what you just said. It's
like you're at a point where you're celebrating your you
know that you're seventy years old and not not saying that.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Yeah, but that's spirit. I had a lot of chapters,
you know that.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
It's really weird. People will be like, oh, what is it.
What do you remember from this time? I'm like, what
do you remember from twenty five years ago? Like certain
things stand out, but yeah, that's that's amazing. Definitely, when
you get to seventy, I can imagine. If I'm almost
at forty and feeling the thing that everyone told me
I was going to feel at forty, imagine what seventy

(50:54):
is like to get there and like a life well
lived and having people from your eras show up and
you know, speak for you and have relationships as long
as you can have at seventy.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
You know, it's cool. Yeah, really cool.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
Has making music and writing being your therapy? Has that
been your outlets. How would you describe making this album?
Is it? Is it therapy? Is it transformative? Is it
is it celebration? Or like what is it for you
and what does it give you?

Speaker 1 (51:27):
I think that what really triggered me wanting to make
an album was having my fourth child and being like,
I love motherhood.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
I'm obsessed with my kids.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Obviously, I wouldn't have four kids if I wasn't like
deeply utterly obsessed with like the way they run through
the house, the way they breathe, the way we like
just the everything about the smallest things are the biggest things,
like obsessed with them. But I was like, I can't
stay here and just be like in this because I

(52:06):
know so much else about myself that has to be like.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
Stretched.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
So I think I got really jealous actually of Matt
after I had Towns and I was like still nursing
and you know, busy with the other kids and like
running our household and all of that, all of that responsibility,
which I actually genuinely love, but I can't that can't
be like it for me. So he was like, going,
he has an amazing studio. He was like going to

(52:33):
the studio every day and just like getting to have
alone time and getting to like sit with things that
like bump around his head in his head and like
make him tick and like purge, you know, his like
creativity and create.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
And I was just like.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
I want that too, and he was like cool, like
are you serious, Like it's not like for ten years
I've been writing songs.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
I've been like deep in.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
It's been way easier to like film a TV show,
which I also love doing, but like motherhood is a
place where you just can completely focus on and throw
all of your energy to and then like forget yourself.
So being able to know that he has like the
front row seat to my whole entire life and then
sitting and like figuring out what this is going to

(53:24):
sound like and what I'm going to talk about felt
so safe and so natural.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
We have such a busy life.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
It wasn't like it was just endless sessions where I'm
like we're writing for eight hours. Like a lot of
it was like a text and I'd be like, I'm
going to get the kids from school, but what if
it's this line? It's what if this happens instead of that,
you know, like it's just like quick phone calls and
a conversation in the kitchen while making plates for the kids,
Like it just happened really naturally and like a wave

(53:53):
that it would happen like this with like the way
that we live together.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
That sounds crazy, chaotic and beautiful? Is it? That's what
a way to make an album together and what a
way to you know, experience, have the experience that you're
having and then going off and creating. When when you
speak of motherhood, it's so real and at the same time,
it's just like so wonderful to hear about it from you,
like it's and and I know we were speaking about

(54:17):
it a bit earlier when you walked in and just
like you like dropping the kids off at sports and
like picking them up and even today I think when
you arrived you're like, yeah, I'm gonna go get to
pick up the kids after this or whatever, you know,
And I'm like, it's so wonderful. And obviously you just
said like you wouldn't have four kids if you If
you didn't what is what would you say is your
favorite way of showing love to the kids.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
One thing that my mom was with me and my
dad as a young child, really playful extremely silly and playful,
and I.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Have that from them.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
I love that, and I love to play tricks on
my kids.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
I love to like.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Be silly and get down on their level and just
be really playful with them. And I think that's a
huge important part of like the parent child relationship. And
then time time spent talks deciding to make an album
and go on tour.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
I'm going to.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
Miss so much that I've really tried to be there
for and it could make me cry again thinking about
you know, may May, my four year old has her
school tea party this Friday, and I'm not going to
be there. And like for Banks, I threw the tea
party with like three other moms and was there, like

(55:42):
and so You're like, this feels off balance, this is fair,
but I will make it fair.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
I'll find a way to make it fair.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
And so I think just showing up for your kids
and giving them the time, even if it's yesterday, I
had a really busy day and I flew up the
canyon for like forty minutes with May May, with Towns,
my youngest and I drove to Luca's soccer practice to
go do an hour long interview and then take him

(56:11):
to his next soccer practice, and by the time I
got home it was like nine pm. But Matt and
I drove him together because we were both at the
studio and then we like walked the track and watched
him play soccer. It's like we got our time. Not
all the kids got their time, but two of them did.
And you just try to like find the balance and
be like, hey, I'm not choosing towns this day. I'm
choosing me may I'm going to go watch her a

(56:32):
dance or I'm going to you know. You just you
just find a way to make it work and try
to be in tune with what your kids need and
keep conversations open.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
And that's that.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
Do you think about sometimes, like when they get older,
I'm going to talk to them about how like I
wasn't at this part where we did this thing, or
do you think about it that way or not? Really?
Is that? Am I completely missing.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
The things that kids stick that stick with them?

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Yeah, is so devastating.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
My son, It's so painful.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
It's so painful, Like my son, please, okay, we are
at Disney Disneyland.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
This is okay.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
He's thirteen now, so he must have been like eight
or nine, and Disneyland's a big deal. We happened to
go like every year, but it's a big deal. And
he would not get on this roller coaster and I
was like, everyone's going on it, like you can't know
until you try, Like I ended up pushing it too
har making him cry, and it like he wrote like.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
A a thing about it at school.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
No.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
I was like, what about all the times that I'm amazing?

Speaker 1 (57:34):
Oh no, and all the time now and now we
can joke and he loves to ride roller coasters and
I'm like, I told you, I told you you how
to just listen to me that you would know and
we could have been having more fun since this age
instead of this age. And you know, like we obviously
like raz each other a ton, but he's always like,
remember that time he made me cry because I want

(57:54):
to get on the roller coaster.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
And I'm like, now we're living down and he's to
write a new thing in school now about how he
loves roller coasters and how it started from that point.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
They don't see it like that. So I'm going to
tell him you said.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
Oh yeah, that's that's that's the only fair. But did
he ride the roller coaster the first time after you
found so oh so it wasn't even that bad. Then.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
I think he was like, you put someone, you tried
to put too much pressure on me, blah blah blah.
Now like we just went to Disney World for Christmas
with the kids for three days. It was so insane.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Four kids, Disney World three days?

Speaker 3 (58:25):
How are you doing that?

Speaker 2 (58:26):
On Christmas Day? We flew. It was crazy.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
That's the best Christmas.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
But now I put note, I'm like, you write it
when you're ready. I am not going to be like
nabbed as that.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
Yeah you're not not by that teacher. You're reminding me that.
I my niece and nephew. My nephew is like he's
ten years old now. He was like two years old
when this happened, barely, yeah, maybe two years old. We
were in the pool at Christmas time. We'd taken the
family away and we were in a pool and he
was in one of those donuts and he needed those,

(58:58):
and he had his armbands on everything because obviously, yeah,
he can't swim, he's tiny. And so it was me,
him and his dad hanging out in the pool and
hitches happened. So I was I was playing this game
with him, which he loved, so he won't say this.
I was playing this game with him where I was
pretending to be a little shark coming at him and
and I would come out and I'd surprise him and

(59:19):
he'd laugh and whatever, and so I'd kept I keep
doing that. One time I do it, he falls through
the hoot like the doughnut, Like for some reason he
got so scared that his whole body just fell through it. Yeah,
and obviously me and got him out immediately, like he
was fine. All he does is tell this story. He's like,
do you remember when you need.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
Like you can't possibly remember.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
I'm like, dude, you weren't even like you were there,
but you do not have a memory for this. He's like, no,
I remember that moment when you were trying to be
a shark. And he's and now he's teasing me with it,
like it's not like he's actually upset. For the first
few years, I thought he's never going to be my
friend again. I was really sad about it. But you're
so right, Like it's so true. Kids.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Is just when the fun games take a turn and
you're like, oh no, no, just.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
Totally and he's ten years old, and now he uses
it against me, and I'm like, hey, I've got loads
of stories on you, Like I've got so many stories
on you being silly when you're younger, and we've got
video of it too, so but no, you're so right kids.
And I guess that's what's so hard with children. It's
like you think you're doing things right and then yeah,
you know, you never know. And that's why I think
that overriding love is just so valuable, right, because you

(01:00:22):
can't you can't predict how they're going to react to
one of these experiences.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
I guess right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
You also just don't know that you're always doing things right,
and I think that's okay. I have a lot of
confidence in being a parent, just because you know, the
more times you do something, you're like, oh, I know
what this looks like, Oh I know how to do
this thing. But I've never been a parent of a
fourteen year old and I've never been the parent of
a eight year old girl. Like all of these things

(01:00:49):
are just it's just a constant checking in updating. One
thing that works for this kid doesn't work for this kid,
and so it is chaots, but it's so fun and
you like learn so much and the love is so
big and we laugh a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
I'm so grateful for that. My favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
We have these big doors that open in the in
the back of our house and we just will like
open up all the doors. We have to put we
have cats now, so we have to put the cats away,
but we just like open all the doors up, and
it's just like kids running in and out and soccer
in the backyard and everybody playing and jumping on the
trampoline or swimming, and I just I'm so appreciative of

(01:01:31):
them and Matt and what we've built such a such
a haven.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
How did they end up with all these cool names?

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
And banks May mae gosh, how did they end up
with their names? I know, I know, well May that
was We thought she was a boy. She was the
only kid that we didn't find out when we were
having because we had her in the pandemic, and I
think we were all looking for ways to entertain ourselves
and surprise ourselves for sure, so we she was a

(01:02:07):
her like gender was a surprise, and we thought for
sure she was going to be a boy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
She was a girl.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
And both of our moms were born in May, so
we named her May May or May we call her
May May. She just came to the realization that her
nickname is longer than her real name, and she's like
really confused by why we would do that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
That makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
Yeah, and she's small, Yeah, and she introduces herself as
May May. Yeah, but she's like, why is Banks not
like banks Banks? And like, what is going on here?
They're very funny.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
I don't think we wanted like traditional names, but we
also didn't want like names that you know, they didn't
feel comfortable with as adults, so we hope we nailed it.
But they also have more normal middle names.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Okay, right. I like the fun fun I feel like
they I haven't met them before, but like they will
sound like they have a personality based on their name.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
They all have a very big personality. I like that
the girls' names, the two banks in towns, they kind
of have like last name sounding names, which feels strong
for girls, and that was kind of my goal.

Speaker 3 (01:03:11):
Nice. I love it, Hilary, You've been amazing to talk to. Truly,
I've loved this conversation. I feel like I've learned so
much about you. I feel like I feel closer to
you just from how open you've been, how vulnerable you've been.
We have a couple of games, as I promised you
segments to finish off game our interviews, so I'm going
to bring them out now. So there's a couple that

(01:03:32):
we invented recently that we absolutely love. And so this question.
There's two games. The first one is called would you rather?
And it's the Disney era addition.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Oh yeah, Usually we played with like disgusting food or
like horrible things, but this is a lot easier.

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
So would you rather have to say? Hi, I'm Hillary
Duff and you're watching Disney Channel every time you introduce yourself,
or have the Lizzy Maguire animated character in your head
at all times.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Oh, she lives in there, rent free baby. I think
I think I would have her living. I mean, I've
accepted her in my head. So I'm choosing the ladder.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
Okay, that makes sense. That's good. All right, we can't
see it and you have to do it, so okay.
Second one, walk every red carpet now in low rise
jeans or a scarf worn as a top.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
No, So my option is low rise jeans on the
red carpet or a scarf as a top, are dress
skirt as the top? Oh my gosh, that is so impossible.
This is forever, This is for eternity.

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
This is yeah. Yeah, would you rather let's let's say
for the next twelve months, let's say for the next
time it works for me?

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
I'm going low rice jeans.

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
Okay, there we go, all right? I was being kind
as being kind? Would you rather have come clean play
every time it starts raining? Or have wake up as
your alarm clock every morning?

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Oh my god, well, I feel like every time it's
raining and I open Instagram, come clean as playing in
your head.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
But the way that I'm going to skirt around this
is that we live in Lana. It doesn't rain very often,
So I'm choosing that one answer.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
These are great responses. I love that. Okay, very good.
There's so many more. I have to send you some
of these because I need to get through some of
these questions. But this is the last one of the
would you rather disney Er edition? Okay, would you rather
bring back ultra thin eyebrows or foundation over the lips?

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
You definitely didn't come up with that one.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
Whoa, I think, ooh, that's so tough. I think I'm
going to go with ultra thin eyebrows might be a vibe,
I think so. I hope like the twelve month rule
can be applied to I'm going to go thin eyebrow.
I never want foundation on my lips again. That was
like a must before I went out. I would just
like blot out my lips. Now we're like all craoning

(01:05:58):
to make our lips bigger.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Fascinating, isn't it. Hence twelve months makes sense because you
never know word could come back.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
That's true.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
Okay, this game is called gut reaction, so you have
to just finish the sentence.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
One thing my kids make fun of me for.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
Is getting gotten by AI.

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
What do you mean?

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Oh you literally be like this is real?

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Oh yeah, I'm like look at this. My son's like
cats don't jump on trembling, So that's you're insane. I'm like, right,
got it, got it?

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
Got it is getting scary. I know it is getting scary.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Is you to like giggle about it right now?

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
And some of the things that we see are like funny,
but no, it's I don't like it at all.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
Yeah, it's scary, all right. The most cringe moment of
me on the internet I wish could be erased is.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Oh gosh, the most cringe moment of me on the internet. Honestly,
I probably felt like it was the with Love dance
for a long time.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
But now you owned it. We're back, baby back.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
I love that. It's been all over my TikTok feed,
like I've not seen anything else. I've been showing it
to everyone. I'm like, yeah, it's all I've been. It's
all I've been seeing and sharing the first I'm not joking.
I'm not joking. First artist you'd want next to you
on a long tour bus ride.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
Probably Taylor Swift because I met those buses are nice.

Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
Oh you want to go on her bus? Yeah, this
was on your tour bus.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
Yeah, well she would probably give me all the tips
for tour because she hasn't stopped.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
Absolutely, Yeah, there's those. I mean, tours are hard work.
I've never done anything nearly as long as any musician
on the planet. I did like forty shows two years ago,
and this is insane.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
I know, really hard, unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
I was just gone for twelve days and I almost
like cried when I just like like saw my pillows
on my bed and I was like, Oh, it's going
to be a good night.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
I get my pillows back.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
Hillary. We end every episode of On Purpose with a
final five. These questions have to be answered in one
sentence maximum. So Hillary duff Tezi your final five. The
First question is what is the best advice you've ever
heard or received?

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
Do you? Because everyone else is taken great advice?

Speaker 3 (01:08:09):
Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard
or received?

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Never grow up?

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
Third question? Your favorite thing about Matt that you don't
say to him enough?

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
He's really handsome.

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
There you go, Matt, Yeah, you can play this as
many times as you want.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
I know he's really I mean, I just I love
looking at him, and I think that he's such a
funny guy that it's easy to just be like, yeah,
he's so funny, he's like the best. It's easy to
he keeps us laughing, like he's just like really a
fun funny like goof.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
But he's so handsome.

Speaker 3 (01:08:43):
I love it. Fourth question, will we ever get a
Lizzie Maguire reboot?

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
I can't answer this in one sentence, but I can
say that right now, it's not in the cards. I
have a world tour to go on, and that's going
to take me yours, I think. But when I think
about Lizzie, you know, I was really excited thinking about
her at thirty and going through thirty year old things,

(01:09:10):
and now I can't really see her at forty. Maybe
I could start to see her around the fifty five sixty.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
And I think that's interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:09:18):
That is interesting. We'd love to say that I love it.
A very very good answer. Fifth and final question. We
asked this to every guest who's ever been on the show.
If you could create one law that everyone in the
world had to follow, what would it be.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
I wanted to say, like love, like loving each other,
but you don't have to love everyone you come into
conduct with, and you don't have to like trust everyone,
And you also don't have to accept like that's the
other thing, like accept accept everyone. But I think that
there needs to be some guidelines, do you know what
I mean? Like the basic things. Yes, I wish there

(01:09:53):
was just acceptance of like everybody being like created equal
and accepted for skin tone or gender or whatever, but
there has to be some rules in place for like
bad people.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
Yes, So I guess like using common sense with acceptance.

Speaker 3 (01:10:18):
Hilary Duff, thank you so much, So excited for everyone
to hear your album, so excited. I hope I get
to come see you on tour. I'm really excited to
see you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
Perform, and I will keep you updated.

Speaker 3 (01:10:28):
I would love that. This is such a joy, such
a treat. Thank you for being so open our eyes.
So I hope you got to share everything you wanted
to share. I hope you feel seen and heard and
so grateful that you trusted me and trusted our platform
to come and be so open. So thank you so.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
Much, thank you, thank you. Yeah no, I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:10:45):
If you love this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode
with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how
to speak to yourself with more compassion.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
There's blessing in the breaking and every moment meant that
you encounter in your life, even if it's just road rage.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Host

Jay Shetty

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

Kingdom of Fraud

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}HILARY DUFF: The Human Behind the Headlines (Her Most Honest Chapter Yet)