Sales Expert Shelby Sapp: The Simple Sales Framework You Can Use in Work, Money, and Relationships (Follow THIS Method to FINALLY Get The Life You Deserve)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, everybody thinks that sales is a job when it's

(00:03):
a skill set. Sales is a way to have better relationships,
better friendships, the way that you talk to yourself in
your own mind. Sales to me is freedom. I fulheartedly
believe that if you teach anybody sales, she'll never go
broke again.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. Today I'm joined
by Shelby Sapp, entrepreneur, sales leader, and founder. Shelby went
from door to door hustling to building a powerful online
movement using social media to help thousands of people gain
real sales skills, confidence, and financial independence. Today, she's sharing

(00:38):
why the skills that helped her succeed in sales can
help you communicate better, build trust, and create the life
that you've always wanted. Whether you work in sales or not,
this episode is for you. If you want to know
how to negotiate better and persuade people, this episode is
for you. And if you want to know how sales
skills could transform the entirety of your life, this episode

(01:00):
is for you. Please welcome to On Purpose Shall be SAPs.
It's great to have you here.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
I know I'm so grateful to be here. This is amazing.
Thank you well.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Ever since I discovered your content, I remember messaging you
and just thinking I can't believe we weren't taught sales
in school.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Oh it's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
I can't believe how many mistakes we make in our
life because we're bad at sales. And I just think
if everyone had better sales skills. As I said earlier,
whether you work in sales or you don't, I feel
like our whole life is sales. We're constantly pitching, we're
constantly presenting, we're constantly trying to communicate our ideas to people.
All of those things are sales, right, So I want
to hear in your words, whether someone's in sales or not,

(01:40):
why is it important to have sales skills?

Speaker 1 (01:43):
So everybody thinks that sales is a job when it's
a skill set, And yeah, you can monetize that skill
set very well, but sales is a way to have
better relationships, better friendships, the way that you talk to
yourself in your own mind, like you can roll your
own objections that tell you I'm not good enough, I
don't deserve this, to make you really believe that you
do deserve a better life in every single aspect. So

(02:06):
sales to me is freedom because I fullheartedly believe that
if you teach anybody, and specifically a woman, sales shall
never go broke again. For the rest of your life.
There's always something to sell your stuff other companies, and
not only just the money side, but also you know,
it changes your friendships, it changes your relationships, and every

(02:27):
facet of your life. It allows you to gain control
because you have to have If you want to be
good at sales, you have to develop a figure it
out mentality, like you just have to figure it out.
And your mentality is like if somebody tells me no,
that's fine. Everybody's gonna tell me no. I'm just gonna
go no no, no, no no until I get mys

(02:48):
And that kind of a mentality that sales has to
teach you, it will make you successful no matter what
you do.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, I don't have a sales job, but the amount
of things is I constantly have to pitch, share, communicate.
It's unbelievable just how every area of our life is
a sales job without any thinking about it. One thing
you just said really resonated with me. I've never heard
it put like that. You said that we even have
to sell ourselves in our own minds exactly to ourselves.

(03:18):
Talk to me a bit about that, because I've never
heard someone say.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
That, right, So, rolling objections in sales is like the
scariest thing that everybody's like, oh my gosh, I have
to turn a no into a yes or a negative
into a positive. But when you roll other people's objections
and when you really fight for somebody to transform their life,
whether that's in your own business that you sell or
whether you're selling somebody else's offers, you learn how to

(03:41):
fight for other people and then you replicate it in
your own mind. So everybody goes through the same thoughts
of you know, this is too risky, or I should
stay safe, or I'm not good enough, or you know
these limiting beliefs. But you have to tell yourself, Okay,
i'm feeling that fear and feeling that kind of hesitation.
That's negative energy. I need to turn it into positive

(04:04):
energy in order to move forward. So you can roll
your own objections, which is like I'm not good enough.
And then it's like I totally hear you calming easing.
Can I challenge that belief? That's what I always say
to people. Whenever I roll objections, it's always I hear you.
But can I challenge that belief for a second? And
then you challenge that own belief with somebody else, but
also with yourself if you need it too. And it's

(04:26):
how you just reframe your brain into okay, in putting
something that's negative, but I'm going to feel that, I'm
going to roll that objection, reframe it and output something positive.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, And I love that acknowledgment that the feeling's real
and the fear is there. But how do we challenge it?
And I think you're so right that most of us,
if our mind says something, we just believe it to
be true.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
If your mind says you're not good enough, you're like, yeah,
I guess I'm not good enough exactly. Or your mind
says no, people like you don't get to places like that.
Your mind says, yeah, that's probably true. And we give
up to to me about what are the three sale
skills that we can use everywhere in our life to
get everything we want.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Knowing somebody's leverage, Okay, you can sell in sales, you
can sell the same thing ten different ways. Also, Okay,
for example, if I am selling a fitness program. Okay,
I'm going to close. I'm a closer on a fitness offer.
I can sell to somebody who wants to lose weight,
I can sell to somebody who wants to gain weight.
I can sell to somebody who has some health problems

(05:27):
in an urgent need right now. And I can sell
to somebody for prevention for just overall health. So there's
a bunch of different ways that you can sell things.
So if you try to sell the same thing the
same way to different types of people, you're only going
to get those specific people that the leverage was built.
So what your job is is to identify the specific leverage.

(05:48):
And by by leverage, I mean pain points. So different
people have different pain points and what's going to motivate
them in order to make a buying decision. So to
kind of like back up, you need to understand somebody's
leverage points and what they specifically want and what will
change their day to day life by making a decision.
And once you find leverage points, that's the problem. The

(06:09):
solution is whatever you're selling them or you know, whether
that be a promotion, whether that be you know, your boyfriend,
rolling objections, with him, whether that be literally anything the
world is problem in solution, and if you can build
enough value around people's pain points, there you go.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
You can solve anythingscue.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
So leverage and then building value. So if you can
provide value to people, you will never be broke again.
But you can also just unlock so many different relationships
because you can build value with people. So value looks
like you insert their pain points, which is what they
want solved, but then you not only provide them a

(06:51):
solution and just reading off what's included or you know
how you're solving it. I call it cell discizzle, not
the stake, because nobody cares about what you're selling. They
care about what it does for them on a day
to day basis. So that's the solution part. Then we
get into the third, which is I call it the
kiss method, but it's keeping it simple, stupid. Life will

(07:13):
get so much better for you if you understand that
people don't necessarily say no to you because they don't
want it, or they don't you know, want you around them,
or whatever. It's because you're not clear, you know. So
if you make your ask clear to where somebody knows
exactly when I hand over my credit card, or exactly

(07:34):
when I give this person this promotion, or exactly when
I give you this job, I know exactly what's going
to happen. You give them clarity. And then the fourth
thing is just ask. You never get anything done if
you don't ask for it. Like I created a career
off of being annoying. Literally, like selling people, you have

(07:54):
to be a little annoying. Growing a business, you have
to be a little annoying content you have to be
a little annoying. But those people that step out of
the box and just accept that being annoying or maybe
a little pushy or just a little out there delusional,
that is what's going to put you in their rooms

(08:14):
that you didn't really think you deserved. But the plot
twist is you do deserve it because you asked for it.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, tell me about the people, and I want to
speak to the skeptics, so the cynical people who are like, oh, well,
if I'm talking to people's pain points, then I'm manipulating them.
I'm taking advantage of them. What's the difference between ethical
sales and doing it properly and then taking advantage of
other people and manipulating them. How would you talk about
the difference for sure.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
So everybody thinks that sales is manipulation, but it's actually
emotional leadership. So what I mean by that is when
you are selling somebody that's a qualified buyer, which means
they're somewhat interested in what you have to offer, they
are here talking to you because they have a problem
that they need solved. So it is your duty to
if they don't solve their problem. If they don't, you

(09:01):
didn't do your job. You didn't help them. So what
helps with this is actually selling something that you believe in.
And so if what you're selling is yourself, like on
a job interview or talking to a friend or your boyfriend,
you have to believe in your worth. That's a big thing.
But again, if you're selling something, you have to believe
in the worth of what you're selling because that comes

(09:21):
off in the conviction of your voice, and sales is
eighty percent the conviction of your voice and the energy
that you have when you're talking about your product. Like
I always say, people buy your eyes and the way
that you have passion coming through when you're talking about something.
So at the end of the day, it's only manipulation.
If you don't believe that you can actually help this person.

(09:43):
But when you really step into emotional leadership where you're
leading people through kind of a hard decision, you know,
do I buy something, do I not? Do I change
my life? Do I get a new job? Do I
join this fitness program or whatever. You are helping people
make a better decision for them in the long run,
and if you do it right, they'll be thinking you.
So's it's very fulfilling.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah. Absolutely. I'm thinking back from my first work experience
when I was like sixteen years old. My mom had
asked for a favor from a family friend of ours
to get me a job at this company at the
Business Design Center. This is an event space in England.
And I worked at a company where we'd be selling
event space to people for these big events. So there'd

(10:24):
be an event about bikes and we'd have to call
up all these bike companies and seldom stands. So there
was a car exhibition and we'd have to call up
all these car companies. I knew nothing about sales, and
I remember being trained to cold call like three hundred people.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, okay, so what was your pitch?

Speaker 2 (10:42):
I can't remember if I can't remember I fully because
I was sixteen years old. Yeah, and I'd be on
the phone and I remember just the amount of times
I'd be like, hey, I'm Jay Shelley calling from the
Business Design I think we were called Upper Street Events.
To be like, hey, I'm j Shelley calling from up
a Street events. The amount of people that just put
the phone down immediately, And it's what you just said
a few moments ago, where you just had to get

(11:02):
used to the fact. Now the Business Design Center was
this beautiful event space. I really believe that it was
a cool space to have events. It was one of
the few places that really like there were big fashion
shows that took place. There was a really cool space.
And it goes back to what you were saying that
it took me time to get comfortable with failure and rejection,
b get some conviction in my voice, and then finally

(11:25):
get to a point where it was like, you're going
to be exhibited at the number one exhibition center in
the UK, blah blah blah yah, et cetera. And you
learn from figuring out what's actually going to happen, and
you're so right that if you don't reset the product
you can't just read a scripture. And I think that's
where the energy goes wrong when you just are repeating

(11:45):
script but you don't believe in it.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Well, you said something interesting. It's like people will just
immediately put the phone down, just no, I'm not interested. Boom.
A lot of people think that in sales you have
to sell every single person and when you get to know,
that's an indicator that you're a bad sales rep. Right,
But in sales, you're talking to unqualified and qualified buyers.
So a lot of the times if you're talking to

(12:06):
someone that's unqualified, that you shouldn't sweat it your job.
If you are cold calling or door knocking or doing
any sort of cold approach. Is just the way that
I like to explain it is you're almost sifting through
the unqualified buyers and you're more qualifying if they are
worth your time. They're like, okay, you slam the door
in my face, no problem, I'm one step closer to
getting somebody that will listen to me or you you know,

(12:29):
hung up the phone super quick. Awesome, Thank you for
not wasting my time, because it would have drained my
energy on somebody that I actually can help so in
life in general too, you will learn that not every
single person is worth your time. And there's a difference
between somebody that does and doesn't. It's unqualified buyers and
qualified buyers. So there comes a point in life where

(12:52):
you just get some sort of confidence because you know
that life is a numbers game.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, and absolutely, And I think the point, going back
to my manyeation point, is that if someone doesn't want it,
you're not trying to convince the person already put the
phone down on you for sure, to pick the phone
back up to convince them because you want to get
a good target. You're accepting the fact that this isn't
the right person. They obviously don't need this or want this.
And that's okay. Talk to me about what people you're

(13:18):
in your twenties. What should people in their twenties be
doing to have a great financial future?

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Oh my gosh, okay, couple things. One move out. You
cannot change yourself if you are still tied to the
perceptions that everybody else has around you, Like the people
that you grew up with, they see you as your
old version of yourself. So if you truly want like
exponential quantum leap change of yourself. You need to almost

(13:45):
kind of have a clean slate and not feel bad about,
you know, presenting yourself a little differently or trying new
things out. So I think you know, old friends, old
family members even not that they're the problem, but it
just makes it a lot easier when you do change
your physical surroundings to also change yourself internally. I would
also recommend when you do move, buy the most expensive

(14:08):
gym membership, sit in the sauna and talk to everybody.
One connection can literally change your life. And the amount
of people that I've met just from talking to people
in the elevator, you know, sitting in the sauna and
just being open, not having a frown on your face
all day and being a little bit approachable. It will

(14:30):
change your life. And again it's a numbers game. You
might have some weird ohs, you might have some randos,
but that very few people that you do interact in
a conversation with, you know, keep them in your back pocket.
Because your network is your net worth. Obviously, I would
say use your credit card like your debit card. I've
been a big you know proponent of that invests every

(14:50):
twenty cents to the dollar is a good one. I
wish I knew that a long time ago, because I
was always just spend, spend, spend, But I would literally
shake myself and be like, and just throw it into
the market, it doesn't matter, put it all in bitcoin, whatever.
And then I would say, learn a high income skill
because you need to provide value in the marketplace if
you want to get paid for it. So mine was

(15:12):
obviously sales, but there's copywriting, tech, AI, content creation, whatever
your skill is. Just hone in on it and be
the best of the best, and try to provide other
people value because if you become an irreplaceable asset, you'll
never be replaced, you know. And then the last thing,

(15:34):
do the complete opposite of what everybody else around you
is doing. If you look left and right and everybody's
doing the same thing, do the opposite. If you want
to have a different result, you need to do different
things in order to have a different result. And then
also be the best at whatever you're doing. So whether

(15:54):
you are working as a barista, whether you're a server,
whether you're a teacher, be the best. Like, take pride
in your job, because that's something that nobody can take
away from you. And a lot of that effort and
skill set that you're getting right now is going to
translate to what you actually want to do in the future.
You just might not see it right now.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
That is a great list. Yeah, I love that list.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
I just like I remember, like working at a coffee shop.
I was barista. It was one of my first jobs,
and I was the best barista ever. Like I was
picking up every extra shift. I was door dashing on
the side, like I loved making money, and I knew
it wasn't my forever job because I would look left
and right and everybody was just showing up doing the
bare minimum. Yeah, but I mean maybe they were smarter

(16:36):
because we were getting paid the same amount. But I
think that sort of mentality where it's like, you know,
you're a star. You know the job that you're in
right now might just be a stepping stone. It's okay, though,
because the skill sets and the work ethic that you
have right now are going to pay you dividends throughout
your whole life. So maybe you're getting paid the same

(16:57):
amount as someone that's just showing up right now, but
it's the worst ethic that can never be taken away.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, you're reminding me of I don't know if you've
ever seen this TikToker called Markel Washington. So he used
to work in subway and he would sing to the
customers as he would make their subway sound rich, and
people loved it. Yeah, and that's how he got discovered.
Someone filmed him, put it up on TikTok, got millions
of views, and now he has all these followers. Now
he's left subway with You know, it's I couldn't agree

(17:23):
with you more. I always think if you can find
a way to even make the job you hate attractive
fun and be passionate about it, Actually, it's just a
great skill in life, and it transforms everything. You talked
about building high income skills, high value skills, which I
wish was talked about in college. I wish it was
talked about earlier in school. I feel like it's completely

(17:45):
missed because you kind of get taught, or at least
I didn't a generalist. It was like kind of be
good at this, be good at this, kind of be
good at that. No one ever tells you, like, hey,
pick something and become incredible at it, and pick something
that the world's actually going to value. How do you
now that we eve left school, we're post college. How
do you actually build a high income or high value skill.

(18:06):
What does the process look like?

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Well, there's so much free content on social media. Like
we literally live in an age where you know, there's
multiple YouTube videos. I literally just filmed a six hour
YouTube video going over every single part of the sales process. Like,
if you want to learn, we now live in an
age where you can learn. You just have to do
the thing that nobody's willing to do, which is sit

(18:30):
down and learn and take notes and practice with yourself,
reach out to companies, you know, get some experience, and
climb the ladder. Just like that. But so I would say,
learn from social media completely free. So many mentors right
now will teach you anything. And then step number two
is practice. And so when it comes to practicing, obviously

(18:52):
we all have a dream job in our head. You know,
I would love to sell for this person, I would
love to be on this person's sales team. But in
the very beginning, you might need some data, you might
need some experience. So I would challenge people to, yeah,
keep that dream job in your head, but more so,
like build your data, build your experience. Right now with

(19:14):
amazing lead quality with you know, just a good system.
That way you can have something in your back pocket
when you do go to pitch yourself for that dream job.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah. Absolutely, I can agree with you more. I feel
like there's so much free content out there, but it's
so hard because I think we look at like thirty
seconds of a real for sure, and a lot of
this is sitting down for a few hours. Like I
remember when I was first learning social media, I was
spending three hours every Saturday and Sunday morning just studying,

(19:42):
like for hours and hours and hours for weeks on end,
three hours six hours a week on top of my
day job. And I feel like if I hadn't done that,
for sure, I would have understood social media the way
I did. And eventually it became every day after work
and I had a full time job at the time.
It became five hours a day after work, sometimes up
until two three just trying to learn and study only
need to go back to work next day. I think

(20:04):
there's so much truth to that, and it is all
out there. What do you find is the biggest difference
between people who have sales skills and people who.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Don't mindset it's your ability to give context to a
negative in order to turn it into a positive in
your own brain. What do I mean by that? So
in sales, salespeople develop this skill set that makes them great,
which is somebody slams the door in your face or
hangs up on you, and you kind of tell yourself,
You're like, maybe she just got pulled over this morning

(20:35):
and she's in a bad mood. Maybe he just got
served divorce papers. Anyways, not my problem. I'm going to
the next person. Even though that stuff probably isn't true.
You're almost I call it being a psycho because you
literally have to be some sort of level of psychotic
in order to feed yourself a little bit of lies
to give context around rejection. That way, you can take

(20:56):
it a little bit easier because it's like they're not
rejecting you, rejecting you know the time or what you're
actually selling. But it's your ability to really just play
mind games with yourself of saying, hey, maybe they just
had a bad day. Anyways, I'm moving on to the
next person, because there is someone who wants to talk
to me. Even though the last ten people might have

(21:17):
told you no, you still have to walk into every
conversation expecting that yes. So that level of skill set
that you get from sales, it trickles into everything, into dating,
into like friendships, into the way that you talk to yourself.
Being able to handle rejection will get you anything in life.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
What's fascinating to me is how you need it to
get promoted. For sure, you need it to convince, like
you said, potentially even a partner to know whether they're
committing or not committing. You need it, of course if
you run a sales job. Let's walk through the sales
process for people like Shelby, I need this advice. I

(21:58):
need everything you're selling right now. Yeah, for because I
need to transform my life. What's the first step?

Speaker 1 (22:03):
So sales as a skill set, if you want to learn,
like sixty second sales masterclass right now here it is.
So the first thing that you need to do is
to establish frame and ease tension, because anytime you walk
up to a person, their sales resistance is high. They're like,
who are you? Why are you here? Why are you
calling me? I feel a little weird. So a quick
little compliment goes a long way. But also just getting

(22:26):
straight to the point, people try building so much fake
rapport and trying to be a friend at first, when
it just comes off a little fake because they know
why you're here. You're trying to sell them so quick,
little compliment, something super easy, and then just getting straight
to the point, Hey, I'm busy, I want to be,
you know, very tentative of your time as well. Is
it cool if we just kind of jump right in
start the sales process easy? Then we get into question

(22:49):
based selling. So everybody thinks that you just start selling. Yeah,
you don't even know what you're going into yet. So
question based selling is, you know, figuring out what somebody's
leverage is, figuring out those pain points, so like what
made you book a call? What are you going through?
Take me through your day? What made you want to
figure something out? Then you will gather a little bit

(23:11):
of data I call it gathering AMMO, that you're going
to kind of put in your back pocket in order
to sell them later. So once you get these pain
points from this person that's your problem, then you go
into the solution, which is obviously what you are selling.
And it's there you have to be very careful because
what you are selling is different to every sort of person.
So you take these specific leverage points, and you plug

(23:33):
and play with specific solutions that only solve these leverage points,
nothing else. Keep it super simple, and then you pitch
the price very simple. And when you pitch price, when
you initially close someone, it's all about your energy. If
you are almost anticipating an objection or anticipating a no,
it's going to come off in your energy. Someone's going

(23:55):
to give you an objection or telling you no. You know,
the metaphor of the star Bucks cashier. So when you
go up to Starbucks and you're ordering your like medium
vanilla ice latte or I guess grande vanilla I S latte.
You go up to the window, what does the cashier
rep do? He holds the Apple pay thing in front
of you, and he's like, okay, awesome, it's gonna be

(24:15):
seven dollars. And he's like turning around doing something else,
no option, no like weird vibes. He's just like, here,
this is how much it is. Okay, awesome, And you're
almost like scrambling around for your credit card. You're like, oh, sorry,
I should have had that out here.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
You go.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
That's the energy that you need when you pitch price,
and when you close people is Hey, you have these problems,
here's a clear game plan, a clear solution, and here's
how much it's going to take in order to get
you there. Like it's very simple, it's problem solution. And
then I think what a lot of people forget to
do is to solidify the sale, you know, because a
lot of people will you know, process a credit card

(24:51):
and then just go straight to you know, filling out
paperwork or just acting like a robot, and they stop
actually connecting with this person. Meanwhile, a after you like
run somebody's credit card and after the initial close, and
they say, yes, now you need to even further connect
with people. So a little trick I have is you
can positively future pace someone, which is, I'm so excited

(25:14):
for you to get started. A lot of people like
to text me when they hit their first ten k months,
or when they lose their first four pounds, or whenever
you're selling, would you mind keeping me in the loop
for that transformation, Like I would love to be a
part of your journey. Now, somebody's like envisioning themselves not
only following through with the process achieving the transformation, but
also they see you as more of like an accountability

(25:35):
coach rather than just the frame of a sales rep.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, and they actually motivates them too, for sure, because
they're like, oh, now that I've committed to this, I
could actually make that change.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
And I've actually committed to the process that makes that happen.
What's fascinating is that we're constantly being sold to, but

(26:09):
we do sell. Oh my god, everything you buy has
been sold to you. And I feel like, whether it's
the clothes that you're wearing, the coffee you drink, the
coffee shop you go to, the laptop that you use,
the phone that you carry, Like, we're constantly being sold to,
but we find sales so scary. Does that right? Do
you know?

Speaker 1 (26:27):
For sure? I mean, even the videos that you watch
on social media, somebody's selling you on why they're worth
your time. Out of every other content creator that you
could swipe to whenever you hit the follow button, somebody
sold you on why they should be on your for
U page every day. Like I went to the tanning
salon yesterday, the most menial thing ever, just a simple

(26:48):
tanning salon. He sold me on a two hundred dollars
tan package. And I don't even live here, but I
just loved his sales process, and I love supporting other
sales reps. Like when you learn sales, you just see
life in a completely different way, where when you get
sold to you almost appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
I agree that you respect it, but I love being
sold to me. I love being sold to like if
someone's because I also know when it's not working. Oh.
There are shops that I'll go into where I'm like
ready to buy right, but then the experience is not great,
and then I won't buy it. And then there are
other shops where I'm like, oh, I'm not sure if
i want to spending money today, and someone's really trying
to sell to me, and I'm like, oh, I love this.

(27:26):
Get really agreeable they do. I respect you.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yeah. Sales is all about, like you know, making someone
feel important and listen to. And that's why women are
so good at sales is because women all day, what
do we do. We call our friends, we talk to
our friends, We hype our friends up. That's literally sales.
Sales is hyping people up into you know, pushing them
into this higher version of themselves and making them really

(27:50):
believe that they can achieve a transformation. If they're given
the tools to do. So that's sales. That's what you're doing.
It's a whole new life when you learn how to sell.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah. Yeah, what's the what's the best thing you've ever
been sold?

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Hmm my pink ga wagon?

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Okay, who sold it to you? How did that process?

Speaker 1 (28:11):
So I was kind of a lay down for it.
I'm not gonna lie, but I saw videos on it.
It was this girl car sales rep on social media.
She's making videos of it. I get tagged in it
a ton of times. I click on it. I'm like, oh,
it's a cool car, butag, I don't really need a
new car right now. I'm driving in Arizona, which is
where I'm from. I look to my right and it's

(28:31):
in the freaking window, and I'm like, out of all
places this, there's only one car that existed in the
whole United States. I'm like, it's in Arizona, Like, what
are the Kansas? So I go in there and the
car sales rep she shouts Shelby. She's like, Shelfy, I've
been in so many of your massacresses. I love you.

(28:52):
I follow you on everything, like and I think that
initial connection and rapport. Uh. And then when she was
showing me the vehicle, obviously she let me test drive it,
but she was also you know, telling me like, you
could use this for content. This car is your name
written all over it. And then she sincere closed me,
which was turning the no away from the client to

(29:14):
the product, and she made me have to say no
to her, which I couldn't. So the sincere clothes is
just like, I know you're going to buy a car
at some point. I'm going to sell this to someone.
If it's not you, it's someone else, but I want
you to have it and I want to be the
one to help you get this dream car.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
So are you still friends with that?

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Oh? Yeah, she's awesome. Yeah she's great.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, and it's and obviously you're happy
with your purchase, which makes it better. I think that's
I think that's the pies, Like when you're not happy
with the value that you received, you're like, oh wait
a minute, I was, And you know I've been. I've
been to some fancy carspots trying to sell you some
fancy cars, and they're not some of them. There's the
technique that I read about talk to me about this
because I saw this on social media and I've experienced

(29:58):
it a few times. Okay, where the these fancy places
try and make you feel less than you buy. Yeah,
I don't like that because it feels uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Right, So it is a real phenomenon. So I call
it the Louis Vanhan sales technique. It's not specific to
Louis Vuitton, but it was just a name I picked on.
But yeah, so they one they hire attractive sales reps
and two they train those attractive sales reps to be
a little bit dismissive to you when you're in the store.
And this is a true thing because as a client,

(30:28):
when you walk in and somebody's not all over you, Hey,
what are you in here for? What do you want?
Blah blah? Did you see this jacket? You almost feel
a little bit like you're trying to earn a sales
reps time because you want to prove that you belong
in the store. And so what are they doing? Well,
it's actually pretty smart, even though I would say that's
slightly manipulative, But what they're doing it's smart as they

(30:49):
know their brand has weight and so they know kind
of the feeling that they have with the brand and
that they are so, you know, up there and sophisticated.
So they make you you assign yourself to feel like
you deserve to be with the brand. How do they
do that by buying a bag? So you almost feel like,

(31:09):
you know, when a sales rep does come up to you, oh,
I'm I promise you I have money, like I am
a buyer, and then makes you want to buy more things.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Yeah, and it's sad that we fool for that, right,
I think I'm not sure would you say that people
will actually spend more mindfully if they understood sales.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
So when you learn sales, you understand the sales reps perspective,
so you're a little bit more cognizant of the techniques
that they're using. And so if it's something you actually
want and the sales rep's amazing, makes you want to
buy more stuff because you're like, Okay, I respect the game,
I appreciate it, and I do want this, let's do it.
But when it's something that you don't really want, or

(31:48):
maybe it's something you do want, but a sales rep
is being rude to you or trying to make you
feel less than you understand the tactics and the way
that they're approaching the sale, and you're like, why would
you do that? You know, I wanted this, I am
a buyer, but the way that you're being dismissive or
the way that you're just trying too hard turns me off.
And so sales is all about like push and pull,

(32:11):
and so a buyer's brain will literally turn off when
you try to sell too hard or when you try
to use these cringey, pushy, aggressive tactics, because in their
brain it's like, if you have to try so hard,
obviously what I'm getting sold is not that valuable because
why would you have to try so hard? So, in fact,
the pull method actually works a little bit better, which

(32:32):
is when sales reps kind of take a step back
and they're like, well, I mean, I don't know if
you need this right now, Like, tell me about what
you're going through and we can kind of figure it
out together.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Where do you think confidence comes from? You're so confident
you talk about this idea of being able to turn
it on, like you know, just yeah, switch on. How
do people access that? Because I think so many people
today feel like a smaller version of themselves. We shrink,
we get shy, we get scared. Like you said, just
before you're about to say the amount, you kind of
hesitate because you're scared about it, and it's not You

(33:01):
do believe in the product, you do care about what
you're doing, but you also kind of care about the
other person. Where does that confidence come from?

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Everybody thinks that you have confidence, and then you do
big things when it's flip flopped, you do big things,
you put yourself out there, you're scared, and then you
build confidence. Like I know, I look like this girl
that's super confident all these things whatever. But when I
first started, that was literally so opposite from the case.
Like I had so much anxiety. I could not talk

(33:28):
to people or someone would ask me, you know, how's
your day going, and I would stutter and think about
it for the next like five to seven business days.
Like I literally hated it. I was just insecure and
I didn't do enough big things in order to have
something to be confident about. So someone told me, you know,
sales will make you confident. I got into sales. I

(33:49):
got literally doors slammed in my face, cops called on me,
The neighborhood Watch like name it, but going through experiences
like that and going through what I call the suck
and coming out on the other side, you know, with
monetary things to show, but also confidence that kind of

(34:10):
data points, those kinds of data points that you have
where you can say, I deserve to be confident because
I did this, this, and this. I deserve to be
confident because I got told no ten times in a
row and the eleventh said yes. Now I'm more confident
that every other person I talk to. If they say no,
that's fine, I'm gonna go get somebody else to say yes.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah. It's doing hard things for sure, Yeah, absolutely do.
I could agree more. Everyone always thinks you somehow feel
confident in your mind and then you take action, and
it's completely the opposite way around your spot on. It's
take action, do uncomfortable things, do hard things, do big things,
do scary things, and then all of a sudden confidence
comes to you. Right, and because you have evidence, you

(34:49):
have proof exactly right, you have a list of things
that like, hey, I did all these things, and it's
not the external achievement, it's the fact that you put
yourself in that position, whether was getting rejected ten times,
moving out your house, going out there and taking on
a job you never did, being out of your confident zone.
Like all of that builds confidence. And but you know

(35:11):
when someone's sitting there and going like, Shelby, I want
to be better at sales. I get you, but like
I just don't how to start. What would you say
to that person who says I don't know how to stop?

Speaker 1 (35:18):
I would say, you don't have to. You don't have
to know how to start. You just have to do it.
And by doing, I mean you need to learn everything
that you possibly can. And again, good for you. It's
all on social media, it's right on your phone. But
then number two is start and know that you're gonna suck.
Like half of confidence is knowing that it's going to

(35:40):
suck in the beginning, and you need to know that
you are going to get rejected, you're gonna mess up.
But plot twist is if you do that enough time
and if you get enough reps, and that's how you
build true confidence. So it's not the whole fake it
till you make it, but I mean kind of it's
like you have to believe you are the best, and
then that's enough data. Like you kind of just said,

(36:01):
you can truly, truly know that you are the best
when you can look back at your experience.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, we found some questions on social media that we
think would be good. So I want to hear your
take on this. What something people struggling with money think
is smart that actually keeps them.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Broke spending money on networking events? I should be pro networking, right, No,
So I have a very kind of controversial but specific
take on networking. So I think you know majority of
people that show up to random networking events. I'm talking
the ones that are just random cocktail hours, random people
in your city. A lot of the people that show

(36:39):
up to those networking events are looking for people external
to cling onto because they don't have anything to offer.
So I want you instead of to focus all of
your energy on networking because I used to be the same.
What rooms can I get into? Who can help me
with this? Like, look into yourself first, build up your
skill set, first, figure out a way to provide real

(37:01):
value to other people, and become someone that other people
want to network with. Like I was always the girl
dying to be in group chats with people like you
or people like my business partners, or people like you
know that I am currently in group chats with right now.
I was dying to be in those. But you need
to figure out a way to be someone that other

(37:22):
people are dying to be in a group chat with.
So instead of focusing too much on putting your energy
out into how do I figure out these other people,
put that energy into yourself. And when you truly have
you know something going for you, or you truly solve
people's problems, the right people will reach out to you.
Because people that are worth networking for don't spend every

(37:44):
day at different cocktail hours just trying to help people
for fun. It's just not reality. But that's different from
specified networking, which is if you have a purpose of
going to it. You know, if you're a real estate
professional and you're going to a real estate event, if
you are a closer and you're going to a closer event, amazing,
A life coach going to a life coach event amazing.

(38:06):
But I think the general networking cocktail hours are just
a waste of time, money, and energy that you should
be putting into yourself.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah. I love the idea that your reputation precedes you
in this sense of and I think people often get
confused that you have to have some big brand for that.
My friend started his content creator a journey. More recently
he has like six thousand followers, but the video content
he's creating is so high quality that people are introducing
him to people because his level of research, his communication skills.

(38:36):
It's only a matter of time before he gets to
one hundred thousand followers and million and whatever else it
may be. But right now, I think people often think, oh, yeah,
but Shelby, I've got to have like a million follows
for someone to notice. Not It's like, no, you could
have five thousand followers, maybe ten thousand. But because of
the content you're creating and the way you're communicating, people
will looking and be like, Oh, you're the stylist that

(38:58):
comes front of mind. You're the that comes front of mind.
You are the coast salesperson who comes front of mind.
You don't have to have millions of followers for someone
to notice you. And I think that's a really important
part as well.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
And I think a big thing too. You need to
be what we call the pattern interrupt. So in sales,
a pattern interrupt means someone that breaks the pattern because
ninety nine percent of salespeople sound the same. They sound
like robots. So if you want a different result than
every other salesperson that gets denied, you need to do
something different. So aka break the pattern of the cringy

(39:32):
sales rep pitches that people here. But in life, you
need to break the pattern. You need to be different
and do different things than everybody else in order to
stand out. Like your friend who made you know, the
most high quality videos, he was probably a lot different
than everybody else who's just putting mass amount of videos
out there to where somebody recognized that.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Absolutely, yeah, he's really thought about it. It's very specific,
and so people in that specific niche are paying attention
to even though he's not got because he's an expert
exactly exactly. He's actually good at what he's doing. It's
absolutely Okay, what's the biggest this is another one. Okay,
what's the biggest mindset difference between someone making fifty thousand
dollars and someone making five hundred thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
A year or a month.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
That's a Shelby question, let's start with it.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yeah, I would say exactly that. I would say the
fifty thousand dollars a month person thinks that they're on
top of the world and that you know, that's all
there is to life. And I think the five hundred
thousand dollars a month person knows that you're uncapped. There
is no cap on what you can do in this world. None.

(40:43):
And I think that's the biggest thing that sales teaches
you is you eat what you kill. There's no floor, right,
But that's also so freeing because there's no ceiling. Genuinely,
if you want to make more money, you just talk
to more people and close more deals. Like that should
excite you, That should be like, oh my gosh, there's
all of this money to make in the world, and

(41:06):
there's proof of so many people making so much money.
Why not me? That was my biggest thing. I always
like heard of these people on social media making so
much money, and I'm like, you, like, if you can
do it, I can do it. And I think that
blind level of optimism is what somebody making five hundred
thousand dollars a year or a month has because they

(41:29):
stepped outside of the scope and the realm of reality
and they truly just said I'm not playing by everybody
else's rules. I'm doing my own thing. Or I'm doing
my own thing on the side, or I'm going to
pull myself out of this because I know that I
can do it. So, for example, if you're talking in
years perspective, I think the fifty thousand dollars a year

(41:49):
type of person just sees money as a side thing
or they see you know, they're not the business they're
working for someone, versus the five hundred thousand dollars a
year person. They know that they are the business and
they know that whatever they do in this life, it
will turn to gold because they are good. So that's
why you need high income skills in order to be

(42:11):
that person that you can't step into anything and produce.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah, And I think the truth is that high income
skill matters even when you're an employee because if you
have a high income skill, that person never wants to
lose you, and therefore they're going to keep investing in
you and keep giving you promotions and raises because they
know they can't live without. So even if you're not
an entrepreneur, if you're a part of someone's team and
you have a high income skill and you add lots

(42:36):
of value to that place, people are never ever going
to take a risk. I mean, you're an employer. I'm
an employer. It's like, I don't want to lose that
best people like I would never take that risk.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Replacing people sucks.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
It's so hard. Yeah, when you find someone who's really amazing,
what they want to or into them exactly. Yeah, you
want to invest in them, you want them to grow
with you. You're excited about it, just as you are
in love in one sense where it's like, yeah, I
want to see what we could.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
Achieve to exactly. But I think that goes back to
like the person who's making fifty thousand dollars a year
and is completely fine with that. They just see it
as a job and they won't go above and beyond.
Versus the person that maybe their paycheck doesn't reflect five
hundred thousand dollars a year, but they believe that they
are in a five hundred thousand dollars a year opportunity
if they act like it. And so when you go

(43:21):
above and beyond, people notice that. So every single ounce
of hard work that you put into yourself right now,
maybe it might not benefit you now, but it will
benefit you dividends in the future. It's just you have
to put it in in order to get it out.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Absolutely great answers. All Right, if someone wants to go
from making one hundred K to three hundred K in
one year.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
What specified the year?

Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yeah, what's the thirty sixty ninety day plan.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
From one hundred K to three hundred k?

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yeah, in one year?

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Are they working for someone or working for themselves?

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Let's do both examples. So let's do someone who's working
for someone, and then let's do somebody's working for.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Themselves, someone who's working for someone. So I would say
that you need to job hop. You're never gonna have,
you know, a two hundred thousand dollars raise in two
in three years. Like, it's just not going to happen.
So the way that you would do it is you
would go to different employers and you would kind of
like pin them between each other. So, uh, the company
that you're working for now versus another one, Right, you

(44:18):
go to their competitor or somebody in a different niche
and you show them the value that you provided for
the other company because you have data points behind it.
For example, I helped X company grow to X revenue
in an X amount of time given these tools. But
I feel like I can go even farther given these
right tools lend me the ability in order to do it.

(44:40):
I would job hop If you are in a company.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
I think it's very sound advice actually for sure.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yeah. But if you are on your own, if you
want to go from one hundred to three hundred, the
very first thing is mindset because three hundred thousand dollars
a year, that's a completely different mindset that than somebody
making just one hundred. So you I need to I
would say, be the best and get paid to be
the best. That's how you're going to do it. But
also look at scaling yourself. If you have your own business,

(45:08):
you know, create many means of you or hire employees,
which is hard, you know, going from one hundred to
three hundred, trusting other people to do the quality work
that you do. But you need to hire superstars, pay
them very well. And the time that you get back
from hiring other people and duplicating them, work on growing
your business, growing different avenues of it. And then I

(45:31):
would also say content plays into both of them. I
think content can amplify anything you do. If you work
in a job, you can make content around that to
where other companies want to hire you because you now
have value as distribution because of your content, because you're
selling yourself through your content. And if you own your
own business, I don't have to explain that content will
help no matter what you are pushing in your content.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
Yeah, I think that's really sound advice for both of them.
I think your spot on that you're not gonna sett
an catapult inside of an organization that much. And if
you are running your own thing, it's what you said
earlier as well. Sometimes you have to triple your output,
like you will have to find ways to if you're
trying to go from one hundred to three hundred K,
that means you've got to look at how many people

(46:14):
you've sold to, how many customers or clients you have.
You're gonna have to find a way of tripling your
failure rate because that's going to get you that same success, right,
and that could mean more people, it could mean more
hours yourself as well.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Right. So, Like a good example is, like you don't
have to start a business in order to be on
your own and do you know three hundred thousand dollars
a year, there are so many side hustle type jobs
that you can do without taking a risk, you know,
of starting your own business pouring a ton of money
into it, and also without posting content.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
What are the examples of jobs are there in sales
that you think giving people opportunity to really take their
finances into their control.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
So door to door sales is where I started out,
and it's amazing. You will have the you will walk
out with the best sales skill set. Because you're in person,
you're getting rejected to your face. It is more gritty,
it is more rejection based because you are the first
person they see, and you're also closing the deal. You

(47:13):
have to be outside and you know, one hundred degree
every single day. It's you know, not the best for
lifestyle wise, But if you're young, like a college person,
I would definitely think about door to door sales. There's
also insurance sales. I would say that's good if you
want to recruit. They make a lot of their money
from recruiting other people to do it. There's also med sales,
tech sales. Marketing agencies have sales teams, there's software sales.

(47:39):
There's a bunch of different sales industry. So I would
just urge people to think about, like what their lifestyle
is and what would be best according to your lifestyle.
So there's you know, the gritty in person you know,
grind sales like door to door and insurance. But then
there's also the more corporate which is like office job
type sales where you work for a larger company, you

(47:59):
have quotas, you have minimums, all these things. But then
there's freelance sales, which is like setting and closing and
this is where you are your own closing business and
you can talk to someone for thirty minutes and they
want to buy. You get a commission off of it.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
If people can make this much money in sales, why
isn't everyone doing it?

Speaker 1 (48:17):
One because it's a limiting belief that you have to
do the right thing in life in order to have success.
Like people brainwash you from a young age that you
need to go to school for sixteen years, you know,
go to college, get you know, a general education degree.
Then you get into the workforce, which is a general
job because you have general education. And then you're working

(48:38):
a job because you have debt to pay off, let
alone being you know, maybe you don't even get to
get a job or you might be replaced by AI soon.
So a lot of people think that that's like the
normal path, but I think people are kind of starting
to get more keen to the idea of doing other things.
But then I would also say it's mindset. Sales has
taught me that eighty percent of people's mindsets just suck.

(49:04):
They're very self limiting. Like a lot of people won't
even put themselves in the position to do something on
their own because they're afraid that they're not going to
be able to do it. And so that mindset itself
is proof that you won't be able to do it.
So that's when I say you have to change the
mindset first before you actually do it. And then also rejection.

(49:25):
People aren't you know, used to getting told no. Nowadays
it's very you know, instant gratification. If you want to
look something up, you can have it on your phone
right then, if you want to order something, it's at
your door in two days. Sales is a game that
you play over a long period of time because in
the very beginning you're putting so much hard work into it,
but you're still building the skill set, so you might

(49:47):
not see it reflected in your paychecks for a couple
of days, maybe you know, a week or two, but
at some point, all of the work that you did
in the beginning will compound results for you over time.
But you have to go through that period of to suck.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
What are the mindsets you're seeing that holding women back, especially.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
They don't believe that they deserve to do something different,
and that can get deep and no one will come
out and say, you know, I don't believe that I'm
you know, can do this, But it's on a more
subconscious level where people do not believe that they could
achieve something. Maybe it's because of what their friends tell

(50:25):
them or what their boyfriend tells them, or you know,
maybe you got fired from your last couple jobs. Like
you can focus on negative data points in order to
pull a negative story, but what you need to do
is you need to pull the positive data points, even
if there's only a few, but focus on the positive
data points of your life that pushes a positive story
of No, No, I do deserve this, and I deserve

(50:46):
this because of all of the data points that I
can look back at. So everything that happens to you
in your life, if you're wanting more like tangible advice
from this, everything that happens in your life, not just
in sales, just life. You can pull negative story from it,
or you can pull a positive story from it. Focus
on the positive data points in order to believe a
positive story.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Yeah, yeah. I always say everyone can tell two stories
of their life. They could be like I've got all
these opportunities, my life changed, I met the love of
my life, like look where it is now, or at
the same time, and it's equally true, you could say
this person screwed me over, this person trying to sue me,
this pess whatever it may be, and both are true.
Both happens, oh for sure, But it's like which one
am I going to focus on?

Speaker 1 (51:27):
And even some of the most you know, horrific things
that have happened in my life are very scary. I
always think to myself, right then in there, this is
going to be a great story to tell my kids
one day, or there's going to be something great that
I'm going to be able to talk about on a
podcast or on the stage. You know. So everything that
you go through, you have to believe that it is
not happening to you, it's happening for you, and maybe

(51:49):
it's a negative in the moment, but it could be
a positive in the future, and this is not you know,
something big, like getting sued or getting broken up with
It could be you're driving on the freeway and you
miss your exit. Yeah you know it's oh, I missed
my exit. I'm so stupid. I'm gonna be late. People
are gonna hate me. I always do this. No, it's hey,
I missed my exit. Thank god, because maybe I would

(52:11):
have gotten into a car crash or gotten pulled over.
But because I missed that exit, now I'm just gonna
add on two more minutes to my time. I'd rather
take two minutes of redirection. Then you know what could
have happened.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Shelby, We wanted to put yourself skills to the test
in the room. Okay, So I'm gonna ask you to
sell a few things to me, and I'm also doing
he sets for myself. So the first thing I'm gonna
ask you to sell to me is mine and my
wife's tea. This is ours. You can grab the drink,
and so I'd love for you to sell this to
me so that we can learn how to sell it better.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Okay, try it for me.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Oh yeah, Okay, what do you think it's very tasty.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Okay, why would you even want? What is this an
energy drink?

Speaker 2 (53:13):
It's it's a calming drink, like it's a balancing drink.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Okay. And what does it do for you?

Speaker 2 (53:18):
It helps you destress your mind, It helps you bring
back your body into regulation, it helps calm you.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
Okay, When do you crack one of these? Open? When
do you need that?

Speaker 2 (53:26):
I probably open it mid day, like probably like my
mid day pick me up, or like around three four
pm when you start hearing that sum it's got enough cafe,
same caffeine in it as the amount of a natural
amount in tea, So it's not energy. It's not like
two hundred milligrams of caffeine. It's like twenty four twenty five.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
I saw somewhere. You know, tea reminds you of talking
with your mom or something. Tell me more about that.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
Yeah, So tea was when I used to get back
from school. My mom would sit me down and she'd
pour me a cup of tea, but it would be
like a hot cup of tea, and she'd ask me
how my day was, and so like every day that
was our ritual. She was super busy, but that was
a moment that we sat down together and had that
moment to Okay.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
So tomorrow comes around like three four when you have
your little crash. If you don't have one of these,
what are you doing? I'm uh, what's the.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Subst Like, well, it would be something unhealthy like this
is only five this is only what is it zero?
It's five calories and zero grams of sugar. I would
usually have reached for something sugary to put sugar into
my body, which is caffeine. I try and stay off
of refined sugars, caffeine and heavy sugars.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
And when you do that, what's the result?

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Less energy, less motivation? Like you know, it's like you
feel like you've been in the gym all week, But
what's the point because you're just like putting rubbish into
your body, maybe more sugar spikes and then low moods
and downpoints.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
So what does that mean for you?

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Though?

Speaker 1 (54:44):
If you're not able to show up with the energy
or with you know, knowing that what you're putting in
your body isn't necessarily the best? Like what does the
crash actually mean? If you were to go through that tomorrow?

Speaker 2 (54:54):
I mean, in one sense, you could argue that it's
like it is whatever it is, But I think I
really it being alert all the time, being focused and
making sure that my snacks are not unhealthy.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
Right. You don't want to live a life that just
is whatever it is. You want to live a life
where you're at your best, right. Yeah, So that's kind
of what I'm getting at is it's not about you know,
this is an energy drink or you know, adapt an
adaptogenic tea. It's about the result that it can have
for you on a day to day basis when someone
like you need to be on right. So my question
to you is, if you tomorrow could show up your

(55:28):
best self for podcasts, for your work, for your clients,
what would that be worth to you to show up
as the best version of yourself? That probably everything right,
and well I'm not asking for everything. I'm just asking
for five bucks. There you go.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
That was really good. I love it. I love how
well personally it was. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
So it's and I'm glad that we did that because
I want a lot of people to understand selling something
the wrong thing to do would have been Okay, awesome, Jay.
So this is obviously the can super pretty I'm reading
that it has one hundred and fifty milligrams of this,
it's manufactured here. It is the best quality drink that
you could have right now by it. I didn't know

(56:06):
what I was walking into in this context. I don't
know anything about your day to day life. I don't
know anything about what you would substitute if you didn't
do this, and I didn't know. Obviously this is going
to give you energy, but it's what that energy does
for you, which in your case prevents crashes when you're
trying to show up as your best self. So you
really need to step back and gather context and ask questions.

(56:28):
That's literally all sales is. It's what I just did.
It's just asking questions about what somebody actually wants and
if it fits into it. And I knew exactly when
it fit into it, because you said, you know, I
would crash, and I don't want to crash when I'm
trying to run like a high level lifestyle right when
I'm running a business having family. Right. So that's what

(56:48):
people buy is they don't buy what it is, they
buy the transformation. So your job a couple different steps.
Is one be the pattern interrupt, which is instead of
getting straight to selling. Just ask, have a conversation, and
then it's figure out the leverage points, which I did
that by asking you questions. Then it's provide value and
provide a clear solution, which is this. And then it's also,

(57:09):
you know, anchoring someone before you price drop. So what
did I ask? I said, what would that be worth
to you? It'd probably be worth everything, right to show
up as your best self. Well, I'm not asking for everything.
I'm just asking for five bucks, and so it makes
it a little bit more attainable.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Yeah, it's such a good demonstration. Let's do that with
something that I know less about. I won't people to
see that book. Okay, So like maybe.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
You got a pen?

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Oh yeah, there you go. Okay, someone's hopefully someone's not
chewed on that.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah, love me is it's the only pen you have
around you?

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Do you want a nice one?

Speaker 1 (57:39):
To me? Every pen?

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Nice one? We did it with a product that I
know a lot.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
About, right, and you want right, obviously you want this product? Right?

Speaker 2 (57:50):
No, no, no, but I think the way you I still
think what you did was brilliant. I'm just saying you'll
be good to ye.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Do you have any other pens? In the room or
is this it?

Speaker 2 (58:01):
That's it?

Speaker 1 (58:01):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Is that bad? Do you want nice one?

Speaker 1 (58:03):
This is fine? This is every pen though, right, there's
no other hiding Okay, awesome step number one create a need.
But let's see it's good.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
That's funny.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
Okay, no, no, no, this is fine. I want to
play to a check toe. If you win, I'll vendo
you one hundred dollars. If you lose, nothing happens, and
I just give you all your pens back. The only
trick is where's your pen?

Speaker 2 (58:30):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
Well, I'm selling all of these pens for five dollars each.
I will let you choose basically five dollars entry feet
in order to only have an upside in order to
win one hundred dollars. Which one would you like? The
red or the way? Obviously this is a joke, guys, right,
So it's obviously a joke. But what it is is
it's another concept of a pattern interrupt And sometimes when
you're selling something, you know, people expect you just to

(58:52):
try to sell a pen, when that's the whole trick.
So the whole trick of it is, and I'll show
you a little bit of a more tangible way to
sell a pen after this, But the trick with the
time old sell me this pen is everybody wants you
just to start selling the pet, right all. This pen
is so amazing. It's all black, monochrome signature and graving
right here. It never runs out of ink, like, it'll

(59:14):
look nice on your desk, like nobody cares about your pet,
like literally nobody cares. So what you would do is
you would one like, break the pattern. Be different. What
I just did is obviously a little bit of a joke,
but it is different. And then number two with this
is I'm selling an experience. I'm like, hey, play me.
The upside is all literally right now, venmo you a
hundred bucks. But the entry fee I created a need

(59:35):
by gathering all your pens even in the other room.
The entry fee is five dollars. Do you want to
play or not? Well, obviously someone would probably take a
five dollars to get one hundred dollars. And then the
other thing is too like if you just create something
that's clear, super simple, A lot of people try to
overcomplicate the sales process. It's just problem solution. Your problem
was you know, you probably wanted to play but you

(59:55):
didn't have any pens, and my solution was giving you
back one of your pens. So the right way to
actually sell the pen. Now, if anybody ever asks someone
that's watching, how do you sell the pen, it's a
trick to see if you are a trained sales rep.
So don't do this. This is just a joke, right,
But what you would do is you would hold the
pen and you would be like, I mean, why would

(01:00:15):
you even want to pen? Like, what do you do
for work?

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
What do you do for I have a podcast, I
write books, and I coach people.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Okay, do you write books? Probably on a laptop though, right,
So what would you even use a pen for?

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Yeah, barely use a pen maybe randomly to sign checks,
but like very rare to sign check, very rarely, because
now's DOCU signed and.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
For sure, Yeah, so take me through signing a check.
Is that someone's paycheck? Or is that to pay for something?

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Or maybe it's like to pay for something but like
so rare, I can't even remember the last.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
And it's always one of those things where it's like
you don't need a pen until you need.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
A pen, right, ye, exactly? Or maybe I dodle well,
I'm on the phone. Yeah, sometimes I'll just you know, playing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Around, so on a phone with someone where you're trying
to like write down notes about a conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
I still like writing down notes, yeah, by hand probably? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Okay. So somebody calls you up and they give you
amazing tangible advice for your podcast or your next book,
and in that moment, you don't want to go on
your notes app because you're trying to like stay focused,
stay concerned. Right, you reach over for a pen kind
of like how we just did, and this guy pops up. Yeah,
I like this. How do you feel writing down million

(01:01:28):
dollar advice with this pen? Probably not the best?

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Right, great, because I'm thinking someone's someone in the office
is cheered.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
Do you want to take down million dollar advice with
a fifty cent sharpie pen that's been chewed on? Probably
not right? But then this pen is on your table instead,
you know, instead of that one reaching for it maybe
has gum on its it's been in the bottom of
a backpack. Instead. This pen always stays on your office
no matter what, even though you'll probably never use it
because everything's on docu sign But when you do need it,

(01:01:56):
it'll be right there. It's not about the pen. It's
about piece of mind that when that when that one
person does call you, you won't be frantic trying to
search for another pene. It'll just be right there and
you can just write down all the advice. So I
would sell basically like your leverage point was, I don't
need a pen, but I could, right, It's like I
don't really use it, So I did the leverage of insurance.

(01:02:19):
You know, it's like you might not need one tomorrow,
but when you do need one, you're gonna really need one,
and you want to have the peace of mind that
it will be there. So what did I do? So?
I asked questions in order to understand context of what
you do for work, why you would even want it,
what the scenario would be if you had a pen
that you didn't like versus a pen that you loved
and just looked at it and felt super confident about

(01:02:42):
writing you know, that next book, or writing somebody's advice down,
or you know, signing someone's paycheck is a big deal
as well, hiring someone. First impressions matter, so you kind
of extrapolate whatever you are selling from like the actual object,
and you broaden it out into something that somebody actually
cares about, which for you, it's peace of mind in
order to be prepared at every point in time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Yeah, what's impressive is, at no point did you sell
me the pen. No, like, at no point where you like,
look at the color, look it will make you. You
didn't even try and sell me the prestige of it,
Like you weren't like, oh, if you hold this pen,
everyone's gonna think you're fat because I don't care about.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
That, because nobody cares.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
Because nobody cares. And it's so interesting because I think
we're constantly trying to think we know what the other
person wants. So like if someone like me walks into
wherever you're assuming I want to be certain things, or
if someone sees you walking and they assume that, oh, well,
Shelby's character profile must be this, this and this, I
don't know, like talk to you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Yeah, there are so many times. And this is actually
my biggest pet peeve when I'm getting sold is somebody
will look at you and make a stereotype out. It's
like I walk into a car dealership and people think
I don't know what I'm talking about. They think that
Daddy's just gonna swipe you know, I'm going to use
my dad's credit card to buy some vehicle, or you know,

(01:04:00):
they can charge me a bunch because I know nothing
about the sales process, when in reality, if a sales rep,
instead of making assumptions, just stopped and just asked, you
would actually get to know people and then you can
help them through simple problem and solution. That's why everybody
thinks sales is manipulation and trying to push things on people.
It's not. It's literally just taking a step back, asking questions,

(01:04:23):
getting to know somebody, and if it works, then you
can plug and play your solution and empower them in
order to make a decision that will genuinely change their.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
Life when you're actually in practice with it, like when
you see it, like what you were just doing, Like, yeah,
no point did I feel forced. At no point did
I feel like I And if I had said to you, no,
I never use a pend, I don't need it at all,
you probably.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Would be like, Okay, awesome, you're exactly yeah, And.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
I think that's partly as well, where it's like, yeah,
if I would have closed the conversation, whereas I was
actually thinking, I mean i'd.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Probably roll that objection a couple of times.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
Yeah, Well, when somebody gives you like, straight off the bat,
not interested, what they're doing is it's called a brush
off objection. It's not a true objection. What do you mean,
you're not interested? You haven't even like seen what we
have to offer, So it's I wouldn't say that, but
that's what I'm thinking.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Obviously they're not interested, but they're not interested in the
time spent with you rather than what you have to offer.
So when they brush you off, you brush it right
back off. No, for sure, I'll just take two seconds
out of your day to talk about X y Z.
You literally just keep going and if somebody is a
qualified buyer, they will take the time to actually talk
to you, and you can roll that objection into more time,

(01:05:31):
which then you can sell. Can I have a drink
of that one?

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Of course? Of course you can't. Do you like that flavor?

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
I think it's a blue one that you gave you said.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
Blue, Oh, no, we have a we don't have any
blueberry anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
I don't think it was blueberry. It was like some berry.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
It was a raspberry or cherry.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
It was raspberry.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Should we get you that one.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
I think this will be good find.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
If you want that one, I can get you that one.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
But they're really good, thank you, you're the best. Do
they not have caffeine in them?

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
They do have caffeine with the same amount a cup
of tea, So there is caffeine and if it's a
natural amount, that's a DCAF one though. Oh yeah, you
want one with caffeine. Yeah, so we need to get
you the raspberry one. That's the one that has that's
the one that has a caffeine.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Okay, yeah, you're like any time, never mind, yeahober business
caffeine and.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
D cafe Okay, yeah, all right, So we're going to
test you on the objections.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
You gotta know them.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Okay. The first one is it's too expensive.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
So a lot of people think that, you know, you're
comparing a price versus nothing, right, But the price is
what you pay today. The cost is what you pay
years down the line when you don't solve the issue.
So you said your business is bleeding fifteen thousand dollars
a month revenue, right, so you don't just like walk
away and just you know, pay nothing. It's actually comparing
you know, a five thousand dollars solution to your problem

(01:06:55):
versus a cost of you know, sixty grand down the
line over a couple of months. So which one are
you more comfortable paying the price for the cost?

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Right? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
You just reframe it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Yeah, yeah, and it is good because half the time
that passion hasn't done that reframe either. All right, I
need some time to think about it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
Do you need quantity of time or quality of time?

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
Quality? It's like I really need to like digest what
you've told me to.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Yeah, I'm glad you said that. A lot of people
think they just need quantity of time, which is, you know,
a couple of days, weeks, whatever, But few people actually understand,
which I'm glad you do that you need quality time,
which is the quality of information that's in front of you,
but also quality time to sit down and make a
well thought out decision. Right, I'm literally the same way.
But like I said, we have twenty minutes left of

(01:07:40):
intentional time on this call. You're busy, I know as
soon as you shut this laptop off. It's like you
got kids, you got to run the business all the things.
So we have twenty minutes left of intentional time, and
I've got all of the information right here in front
of us. In order to make a well decision, I
need to check with my wife, and you will. You're
either going to come to her though, with a problem
or a solution, you know, a problem of Hey honey,

(01:08:02):
I really want to do this, but I don't know
if I should and da da da, or hey honey,
I found somebody that can really help me solve my
problem that I've been wanting. I really trust it, and
I thank you for your support. Which one do you
think would go over better with your wife? Probably the
solution right. Also another one I love for that and
I've never talked about this either, is the flip flop. So,
for example, if somebody tells me, you know, I need

(01:08:23):
to talk to my husband or my wife, I'd just
be like, no problem. Can I challenge that? Yeah? Okay, awesome.
So if instead instead of it being me and you talking,
what if it was me and your wife, you know,
and she came to me and she's saying, I'm going
through this, this and that, and I finally found someone
that I think can solve my problem, and I really
want to do it, but I want to check with
my husband first. Would you support her in making that decision,

(01:08:47):
you probably would write, So is it fair to say
that she'd probably support you in the same way that
you support her? And this works really well if you're
talking to a woman, if you instead of saying the
husband thing, because she'll be like, why i'd want him
to talk to me? You know, it works really well.
But if you flip it and you're like, let's say
it's your best friend, you know, and she's sitting here
going through this, going through the same thoughts, would you
tell her to do it? You know probably would, right, well,

(01:09:09):
is it fair to say other people would probably tell
you to do it too? So putting people kind of
like outside of themselves and looking at the situation from
an unbiased third party perspective and being like, what would
you tell that person to do right now? Because you're
saying to me that you really want to do it,
you'd probably say to do it right, let's do it. So, yeah,
I give you two on that one.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate it. And now it's not a
good time.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
For to talk or to make a decision about something.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
I've just got so much going on, Like I've got
family stuff. I'm like exhausted. I just I just don't
think that was a good time.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
Can I challenge that?

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
I don't know? I just I don't know if I
have the bandwidth for you right now?

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
No, for sure. And I'll just make it easier for you,
because you know, the bandwidth to think about things over
a long period of time by yourself. It just that's
how stress gets created, right, So I'll just clear that
up for you. So when you say you don't have
the time, you know to think about it and to
process the bandwidth. A lot of people think that they
need to be in a situation where they have every
single ounce of intentional time, But in fact, the best

(01:10:09):
decisions are made in the gray area. Some of the
best companies were started in the recession. It's because while
everybody else is moving forward, you need to be the
person that maybe takes a step back. But while everybody
else is sleeping, you need to be the person that
makes a decision in order to get better. So what
do you want to be right now? Someone that just
follows along with what everybody else is doing, or someone
that actually moves forward when everybody else is kind of

(01:10:30):
just moving along, Because are you going to wait for
life to happen to you, or a you're going to
make your life happen for you right now.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
And sometimes people may even take them but like I
still need time, but you've helped them think about it
in a different way.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
So I always start every objection with I hear you,
can I challenge that thought? Because it allows you to
separate the objection from you. I'm not saying can I
challenge you? You know, it's not me versus you. It's like, hey,
can I challenge that thinking for a second? And it's
like a lot of people think, but it's actually, this
will help you get one step closer to your goal.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Yeah, I love that. These were some other things that
came in from social of people of things they're struggling with.
So how should this we're moving away from the objections,
how should someone approach a conversation to ask for a raise?

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
Ooh, so step number one is you have to have
some sort of experience behind you in some sort of
numbers in order to deserve a raise. You can't just
get hired the first day and ask for a raise,
or you can't be the worst employee ever and ask
for a race. So you have to have a reason
to ask for a raise, so that means be the
best at your job, right, have some sort of reason
in order to ask for a race. Then when you

(01:11:35):
ask for a raise, have other competitors' datas in order
to compare to. So, for example, if I want to
ask for a race from you, I would go to
one of your competitors and say, Hey, I've been working
for Jayshetty for a while. We've done X amount of
revenue with him. What is the offer that you have
for me. Then I would take it back to you
and I would say, hey, Jay, I love working for

(01:11:56):
you and I'm really sold on the long game with you.
Like I want to grow with this company and I
want to stay here, but I need to make it
make sense for me just on a monetary standpoint, because
I have other competitors such as this guy and this
guy offering me a little bit more. So I want
to stay with you. That's why I want to have
this conversation be you know, grounded with it. But I

(01:12:17):
just need it to make a little bit more sense
on the financial side in order to grow with you
long term. So even if you don't believe that you're
going to be with this company long term. You need
to sell the long game and sell the vision to
your employer because, like you said, that's the leverage point
that an employer has is they want to invest in
people for the long game. So, Hey, I want to
be here for a long time. But in order for

(01:12:38):
me to put all my resources here, I need a
little bit back because other people are recognizing my value
and I'm not saying you don't, but I need it
to make it make a little bit more sense for me.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
What about if someone's if someone's going to interview with
the company, what are the top three things they need
to show?

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Numbers what you've done for the company. I would say,
audit what you you can do better and have a mathematical,
easy game plan way to show what you can do
with the company given the raise. So you can't just
ask for a raise just because you deserve it. Corporate
America does not like entitlement, right, But people will pay

(01:13:15):
you if they think there's an upside. So this is
creating value, right. It's Hey, if you pay me twenty
thousand dollars more, I'm going to generate eight hundred thousand
dollars a year more for the company and I'm willing
to do this, this, and this for it. It's just
like in sales, you can't drop the price when negotiating
with someone for no reason, right. You need to actually
have a reason and justify a price drop in order
to not sound sales y. Right, So data and then

(01:13:37):
also like have a clear game plan and you want
to make it super easy for someone to say yes
to you and say, hey, if I give this girl
a promotion, this is exactly what we're going to get
for her. Okay, awesome, let's do it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
Yeah, how do you deal with it when you don't
get what you want? And what's the right response?

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
Never burn the bridge. That's a very good question that
not a lot of people talk about. You never burn
the bridge because a no isn't a no forever. It
could be just maybe later, it could be you know
a little bit of insight to where you need to
improve a couple of things and then reask again when
you have more leverage there. So just know that a
no isn't forever, it's just not right now.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Yeah. I think yeah, I think it comes back to
what we've been talking about this whole conversation, where it's
like when you deal with rejection badly. It starts to
affect everything because then you're like, you know, it could
go in multiple ways. You're like shrinking yourself. Your mood's
a bit dull, you're not walking in with that smile
and with that confidence that you had, and all of
a sudden, it's affecting everything. Yeah, for sure, It's crazy

(01:14:37):
how quickly we kind of shut the door on ourselves.
What about if you're going to interview for a job
for the first time, So what an interview is looking
for when you're interviewing for a job.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
Right, So they're looking for people that are boughten on
the long term vision exactly. But also they're looking for
people that ask really good questions that show that you
kind of know what you're doing through the questions that
you ask. So, for example, if you want to be
a remote closer and you get on an interview with
someone and they're like, so what made you apply, and
you're like, I just really want to make more money.

(01:15:08):
I just want sales experience. What is that that's all
about me? Nobody cares about what you want, right, They
care about what you can do for them in the
context of the situation. So it's you know, instead of Oh,
I really want to make money blah blah blah, it's hey,
I've been following X creator, X mentor for so long.
I have this sales background, and I would I've been
closing for other offers, right, but I would love to

(01:15:30):
close for her offer because I have true conviction what
she's selling and I want to help you guys grow
your business. So it's all about making the game plan clear,
but also using the leverage points of the other person,
not yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Yeah. Absolutely, I think the amount of people that interview
these days and they don't have that entitlement, it's it's
it's yeah. The answer is just it shocks you sometimes,
you like, like someone, I've interviewed people and they've said
things to me like yeah, I just didn't like what
I was doing right, And it's like, cool, that's fair.

(01:16:04):
I get it. I've not liked sating jobs that I have, right,
But like, you don't want to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
You want to come off as someone that is ready
to do the most, ready to go above and beyond,
and doesn't just see it as a position. Because from
an employer's perspective, we don't want someone who just wants
to show up and do the bare minimum. We want
someone who sees the value so much in themselves and
takes pride in their work and is boughten on the
long term vision. So if you embody that you should
be good to go for an interview and asking questions

(01:16:32):
that relate to you know, the business, you know, what's
your guys's close rate, what's your guys's lead flow, like,
tell me about the offer. When you make the interviewer
sell themselves on why you should work for them, you
want in that sales it's taking a step back and saying, well,
I mean, I'm interviewing for a few positions, but I
just wanted to know a little bit more about how

(01:16:53):
you guys do this, what your process is like, what
it would look like if I did get hired, what
your salary is like, and then I can come back
to you with the decision.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
Yeah, And I think I think there's a lot of
test of your worth too, Like, for example, if you're
going to be confident enough to say I've got these
offices and I'm doing that, you better back it up
because that person may also just go, yeah, good for you,
like we don't need you either. And I feel like
sometimes it's if it's all a story, then it doesn't
always play well. Like I find like even like I

(01:17:19):
do a lot of corporate coaching work. That's that's where
most of our coaching is in me working with large organizations.
And I have there's a few experiences that I had
the first time I had an experience when I first
began this was like maybe I don't know, like ten
years ago, maybe even twelve years ago before before the brand,
and so maybe even longer. And I remember being in

(01:17:40):
an office and I asked all the questions, and before
I was about to give my solution to their problem,
I realized that my solution did solve their problem. And
so I'm just going, yeah, all right, great, thank you,
And I walked down, thank you so much, like I
just want to be honest with you. I don't think
I have what you need, but really grateful and I
hope you can get this conversation open. Fast forward five

(01:18:02):
years from that point, I went back and started a
really great contract to this client. There is because they
can see the honesty too. Like when I was I
was happy to be like, guys, you know what, I
actually I don't have anything you need, but I will
come back exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
And that's ethical sales because you can sell someone and
then walk away from the conversation and both of you
guys don't feel good about it, and that doesn't do
any good at all. So it's like, when you sell
someone or when you apply for an interview and you
are really trying to sell yourself, do you genuinely believe
that you can provide this business value? Because that doesn't
just come off in the words that you say. That
comes off in your energy. And I'm sure you could

(01:18:35):
feel like when you kind of felt like, oh I
might not be ready for this right now, your energy
was probably like, oh way, I don't know what I
got reselved into. But that's why you really need to
build the data points in order to have conviction yourself
or whatever you're selling, in order to show up that
way and like energetically be like I'm here, I deserve this,
Like let's go cancel all the other interviews because I'm

(01:18:57):
your person. And until then, I like how you just
kept the bridge open, you didn't burn it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:02):
And it worked out. And I've had that with so
many things that we're doing right now where I got
rejected from something seven years ago and this year it
will become one of the most exciting parts of our business.
And it's like there's just seven years of relearning patients
figuring it out, for developing new skills. And I just
think that long game is so healthy for everyone to

(01:19:23):
always play, because your current employer may write your reference
one day. Your current employer maybe end up being one
of your biggest clients for sure, Like you just have
no idea, Like I worked at a company called Accentua,
and Accentua was a place that invited me back to
do so many keynotes when my career took off. But
if I hadn't had a good relationship with them, sure
were left on good terms to your point of burning again, Well,

(01:19:44):
then that wouldn't have been the case exactly. And I
feel like there's too much shortsightedness now because we think
there's lots of opportunities, but at the top, everyone knows
each other exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
But I think what you're saying is exactly what someone
listening should take away from it, which is it's not
a yes or no, it's a yes or a lesson.
And so sometimes the lessons are more valuable than if
you got that contractor you got that client years ago
because the lesson taught you to never walk into a
situation like that again. And so sometimes that lesson can
be way more valuable than getting what you want in

(01:20:15):
the moment.

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
A couple more of these before we get to the
final five. This one's great. What's the right way to
talk about your strengths without over selling or apologizing?

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
So I like to sprinkle in You can call them
testimonials or like subtle ways to flex. Right, I subtly
threw it in there, but then extrapolated a lesson from
it that pertains to the other person. Because people don't
care about your flex, they care about what your flex
can do for them, So you can use it, but
use it as a lesson in order to provide value

(01:21:01):
to somebody else.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
Ego just always is such a turn off. Like I
don't know, I generally just I struggle so much when
someone I feel is egotistical. And the way I think
about the difference between confidence and ego is evidence and reflection.
So it's like, if someone can give me evidence and
they can reflect on the evidence to prove that it's
real experience, Now it doesn't feel like a name drop

(01:21:24):
it doesn't feel like a number drop, which just feels
like it's big dissasiyay.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
When people name drop, it's my least favorite thing. When
somebody name drops or says, you know all these different numbers,
it is a literal indicator that they probably don't have
the skills in order to do what I need them
to do because they feel like they have to name
drop or they feel like they have to, you know,
show their numbers. I would also challenge that though, because
it is a very fine line with when you're new

(01:21:52):
to a space, there's a lot of people that might
not know who you are. So sometimes you know, the
numbers that you've done for a company, or your experience
will speak volumes and so nobody's gonna you know, sell
yourself like you will. So sometimes it's a fine line
of not having ego, but it's also a line of
like being loud about your accomplishments when they are valid,

(01:22:15):
and like shouting it from the rooftops because you deserved
it if you worked for it. But it is a
very fine line.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
Yeah, which sales call or sales deal challenged you the most?

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
Oh, that's a great question. Okay, So I was talking
to I was talking to a gay guy. Okay, love
talking to gay guys. So fun like it was very girls,
girl of vibe energy. He was awesome, Okay. He keeps
giving me the spouse objection. I keep rolling it. Blah

(01:22:46):
blah blah. Keeps giving me the spouse objection. I'm like, okay, fine,
we keep rolling it. Then his spouse walks in the frame,
sits down. I'm talking to spouse and spouse again, okay.
So I'm like, okay, awesome. Now I know the other
spouse is the decision maker. Kind of turn the attention
of the sale towards him because I know the decision
lies in his hands, right, that's what you need to do.

(01:23:06):
Then I'm talking to him. He goes, I need to
talk to my husband. So I look at this guy
and I'm like, you, brat, I thought you, you know,
I thought it was him, not you, Like we could
have had this done a long time ago. Like what's
the issue. And so I, you know, direct to him.
He says, I need to talk to my husband. I
redirect to him. He goes, no, I really need to
talk to my husband. He's not here right now, And

(01:23:30):
I go, is there three of you? No? No, it
was a gay thrupple. But let me tell you the
way that I closed the deal, I sincere close them
and I go, you, guys, this is one for the books.
I was like, I've never been in this situation, and
you guys are gonna use someone probably the next person

(01:23:50):
that comes up. You're gonna have to buy something at
some point because you do have some issues. I want
that person to be me. I've never sold a throuble
before in my life. Like, I would die to be
able to go tell my bost my coworkers that I
just had this experience. Would you guys please allow me
just the glory of having, you know, my first thrup
will sale. And they still send me Christmas cards to
this Day's kind of a funny sale. But I was

(01:24:12):
so backwards. I was mad at them because I was like,
I thought you were the decision, but it's you, But
it's you, but it's you. Wait, they're not here with
that incredible It was pretty creative. I was actually speechless.

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
You're pretty much prepared, like because obviously that's something you'd
never be careful. You're pretty much prepared, oh yeah, for
any direction it can go. And when you're training people.
You're training them in sales, training for every scenario possible.

Speaker 1 (01:24:38):
That yeah, so you have to train like things are
going to go wrong. You have to train for payments
link payment links not working, you have to train for
your zoom maybe crashing. You have to train for different objections,
different scenarios, if they need to call their bank, like
different things. You just need to preempt them rather than
waiting for some monstrosity to happen and then you attack it.

(01:24:59):
Then in there like you always need to preempt every
sort of objection, and so then the follow up question
is probably like how do you preempt objections? Well, you
kind of get key indicators from someone you're talking about.
So if I'm talking to a girl, we'll call her Stacy,
and Stacy's wearing like a fat rock on her finger.
I know Stacy's married, right, So later on into the call,

(01:25:20):
she might give me the spouse objection, or she might
be saying words like we when we did this us Okay,
there's probably someone else in the picture that's not on
the call. I might ask Stacy like, have you ever
signed up for something like this in the past, And
if she did, okay, were you the one that made
the decision or is there anyone else you know in
the picture for that. If there is anyone else in

(01:25:41):
the picture, you got to get them on the call.
But if not easy, you just preempted the objection. So
you always plan for things. And that's just that's how
a well funneled sale works. Everybody thinks that sales is
overcoming every objection in the book ten times over with
every client. It's not. It's just creating a trusted by
atmosphere and true rapport with someone and just a good

(01:26:04):
energy around the sale that makes it so easy for
someone to say.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
Us, Yeah, why do you think we're all so like
ready to save up for a month to buy a bag,
but struggle to invest in ourselves.

Speaker 1 (01:26:18):
Right, it's because you're worried about what everybody else thinks.
You're shifting perception from how do I feel about myself
to how do other people feel about me? Because buying
a bag, I mean, if you want to buy a bag,
you can do that, right, like if it makes you
feel good, like I love buying designer, like if it
makes you feel good. But buying it just for other
people when you have other priorities is where it becomes

(01:26:39):
an issue, like I never bought designer until maybe like
a year ago, even though I could. It's just I
had so many other things I wanted to check off.
I wanted to do rental properties, networking events, hire mentors,
move like. There were so many other things that mattered
to me more than just worrying about other people's perceptions.
Because nobody's really thinking about you as much as you think.

(01:27:02):
It's a there's a metaphor. It's called like the invisible
guest at a wedding. Like you show up to a
wedding and you want your hair to be perfect. You're
worried about what dress to wear, You're worried about the
conversations that you're having with people when everybody's thinking that, yeah,
and you'll probably never see a lot of these people again.
So you're so in your head, but so is everybody else,
And so in somebody else's perception, you are just the

(01:27:24):
invisible wedding guest. They won't remember you, So why worry
about If every single word is going to be perfect,
and you can carry that into everything In sales, nobody
knows what you're supposed to say. They don't know your script.
If you mess up, you just roll with it. You
keep going like this podcast, I don't want to be perfect.
If I was perfect, I would be AI and I
wouldn't be relatable to people. So just know that, you

(01:27:47):
know some sort of respect of I don't have to
be perfect. In fact, it's better if I'm not perfect.
That is what makes you human, and that is what
makes your story so amazing to inspire other people.

Speaker 2 (01:27:58):
Yeah. Absolutely absolute. And also I just feel like, I
guess what I was getting at was this idea of
we don't even know we're being sold by most of
the people that are selling to us, Like there are
just certain life choices we feel we made independently, but
we were all sold on what it meant.

Speaker 1 (01:28:17):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:18):
And but when it comes to investing in ourselves, building
our skills, learning, it's almost like we're scared to part
with our hard end money because it feels in some
way like we're being sold to.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
Well, investing into yourself is one of the most freeing
things that you can do if it's something that will
give you an ROI. There's obviously a lot of things
that you probably shouldn't invest into, but if you have
a clear goal, you should feel super confident in investing
in yourself if it qualifies for ROI return on investment,
if you can be super clear about if I put

(01:28:50):
this amount of money in, what will I get out
and what doors will that unlock for me? If you
can feel good about that give and take, then you
should make the decision for yourself. And I think the
tables are kind of turning in a lot of ways
with younger people because I think a lot of people
love investing in themselves. They love buying an outfit to
wear to an interview because it makes them feel a

(01:29:10):
little bit more confident. Like I think we're kind of
shifting away from, you know, the stigma around oh, you
shouldn't spend money on yourself, right, I think we're shifting
away from that. So I'm very happy for that era.

Speaker 2 (01:29:22):
Yeah, absolutely, Shelby, You're awesome. This is so much fun.
I learned so much. I think my audience learned so much.
And I know, like you just said, you just recorded
a six hour sales training for free for YouTube. So
I'm excited for people to go subscribe to you channels,
follow you on Instagram, on YouTube, everywhere else. We end
every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These
have to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum. Okay,

(01:29:46):
so Shelby, these are your final five. Question Number one,
what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
To go as fast as possible, never slow down.

Speaker 2 (01:29:56):
I like that. No one's ever said that.

Speaker 1 (01:29:58):
I can't elaborate, you can go. Everybody always says, you know,
take it slow, you have time, you deserve a break,
like just chill, when in reality you don't. You literally
have no time. There is urgency. You need to use
every single waking moment to strategize what you want out

(01:30:22):
of this life, and then as soon as you're clear
on it, work yourself backwards. And the cool thing is
when you're clear on your goal, that urgency does kick in.
If you're like, I don't have the urgency. When you
know exactly what you want, the urgency kicks in because
you're like, well, how fast can I get there? And
don't go with other people's timelines. Just because some people
have what you want by forty five doesn't mean you

(01:30:43):
have to wait till you're forty five to have it.
You can literally give it to yourself now if you
just work really hard and go fast.

Speaker 2 (01:30:49):
Yeah. Well, said, uh, yeah, I feel like that idea
of moving fast you will break things, but if you
didn't move fast, you wouldn't have had the progress and
the growth. And I can relate that I was. I
was twenty eight when I started all of this, and
we moved extremely fast in the last ten years. And
when you're doing that.

Speaker 1 (01:31:07):
Chaotic and it's messy, but you learn as you go
absolutely way to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
Truly, and I think if we tried to go any slower,
we wouldn't exist exactly. Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
I find the same for myself. In college, everybody told
me to slow down or why are you doing this?
And that, Like I got an accelerated master's degree and
an honors finance degree, which don't use either of those.
But again, like every single ounce of hard work that
you put into yourself never goes to waste, right, I
learned work ethic and whatever. But every summer that I

(01:31:37):
was doing that, I was knocking doors selling pest control
in Minnesota heat to strangers. So it's like I was
going so fast. I never had a second that I
was just bored. And maybe that comes from trauma or whatever,
but I think that also just builds some sort of
work ethic where you're like, there's so much urgency, like
I need to go, Like there is nobody else that's

(01:31:58):
going to save me right now. Nobody's gonna come in
and build your life for you. You need to go,
and everybody in your life is gonna tell you slow down,
take a break. Oh you're doing so good. Why don't
you just be happy here? It's because your speed and
your growth makes their lack of growth and lack of
speed feel inferior. That's the only thing it means. And

(01:32:19):
so you're making them feel uncomfortable because of how much
you're doing in such a short amount of time. So
you need to be able to filter out, like what
other people are saying about you and why they're saying that.
Take it for face value, you know, you don't need
to attack it, but just know, if you have goals
and priorities, why have it take ten years, If you
could have a take two literally, why you might as

(01:32:41):
well do it now. And especially if like a woman's
watching this that doesn't have kids yet, you need to
go now. Your day is all about you, you know,
if you don't have other kids, other people in your
life to tend to you, have so much free time,
time that you can put into yourself and go as

(01:33:04):
fast as possible in speed run it because as soon
as like, if you want to grow a family one day,
you've got a lot of other stuff to do and
you're probably gonna be like, damn, why didn't I do
all this side hustle things or extra learning on the
side when I had the free time to do so.
So it's a very finite amount of time where you
can go fast and you need to take advantage of it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:24):
Absolutely. Wow, that was That was a very motivational thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:33:28):
You're like, what am I going to do? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:33:31):
Yeah, I'm not even a woman, and that was I was.
I got me right though.

Speaker 1 (01:33:35):
Men and women, Yeah, I know you yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:33:38):
Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. My mentor who I
forget how old he is now, but he was like
good no, no, no, no, no, no, like that I
was when I was twenty eight, he was like fifty five.
So I'm ten years old. So he's like sixty five
and he'st always told me. He was like, Jay, before
you have kids, you can move two hundred for sure.

(01:34:02):
Put your foot down on the pedal, like, do everything
for sure. And he was absolutely right, Like, he's absolutely right,
Like it was just for the past ten years, I've
had my foot down on the gas. Yeah, I don't
regret a second exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:34:14):
The best things you've built a foundation. You built more
than just a foundation, but it's right you built it.
And so now like when you are able to have kids,
you can like enjoy that and be a little bit
more present and not have to work out of survival.

Speaker 2 (01:34:27):
Yeah. Question number two, what is the worst advice you
ever had or received?

Speaker 1 (01:34:32):
Finish your master's program? Yeah, I got a master's degree
by twenty two.

Speaker 2 (01:34:37):
What was your muster?

Speaker 1 (01:34:38):
Is it business?

Speaker 2 (01:34:39):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (01:34:39):
Yeah? So it was in business development, but it didn't
really do much. We had a teacher. It was like
you have four different types of teachers for the four
different types of business. One of them was sales and negotiation.
And I was in door to door sales, like making
a ton of money, like loved it. And this professor
was teaching the most menial like kindergarten level sales tax

(01:35:00):
And I'm like, this is what people are teaching you. Like,
I think there's something to be said when you are
someone that is in a situation, whether that be a
job or school or a program, and you kind of
look around and you don't feel like you belong, but
in a good way. I think it's good to notice that,
acknowledge it, and like if you still want to finish it,

(01:35:21):
just to be able to say you did, like, I
think that's important. But it's also like, don't follow that
path then if you know that you're better than everybody
else around you in a non egotistical way, but you
just know you're special, you know you're destined for more
than what you're doing right now, that that's okay. And
I think a lot of the people when they told me,
you know, just do things the normal way, why are

(01:35:43):
you trying so hard? It's like those people now are
in a position where they're asking me for advice, and
I'm like, well, there's not really much advice to give
because we both started off at the same exact playing field.
It's just some people go really fricking fast and try
a bunch of different things out and not everything worked out,
and I had to sacrifice nights, I had to sacrifice friendships,

(01:36:06):
I had to sacrifice you know, going out or whatever.
But it's worth it, so yeah, I wouldn't have finished
my master's program. If I know what I know now,
but I mean, god, I did it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:17):
That's cool question. I'm befoll Can everyone be good at
sales or are certain people just not meant for it?

Speaker 1 (01:36:25):
Everybody thinks you need to be extroverted in order to
be good at sales, and that's actually false. And I'm
not saying introverts are better than extroverts, even though a
lot of introverts do do well in sales because you
can build that empathy. But it all comes down to
internal motivation of I will do what I need to
do right now, even if nobody's watching, which means on

(01:36:46):
a sales call, people are going to tell you no,
Are you going to sit there and roll a couple
objections with them? Are you going to sit there and
even though it's a little uncomfy, are you going to
do what you need to do in order to move
the conversation forward? Or at the end of your day,
are you satisfied or are you going to send out
some follow up emails? Are you going to text a
couple of clients from the day before to make sure
you pick up every single deal that you possibly can.

(01:37:08):
And those people, I would boil it down into one word,
and that's hunger. You need to be hungry, like you
need to be maniacal in your work, ethic and gritty.
That's who succeeds in sales is who wants it the
most and who does the most in order to get it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:29):
What do people do when they just feel lazy stuck?
Maybe they've just wasted a bit of time and they've
kind of developed bad habits.

Speaker 1 (01:37:36):
I always ask her, what's your morning routine? What are
you doing today? What did you do before? Did you
stop doing the things outside of your sales job that
made you so great to where you got a little
too cocky, to where you say you thought to yourself,
I don't need to show up to these trainings. I
could skip a workout if I need. I don't need to,

(01:37:57):
you know, get a little bit of extra advice about this.
I don't need to rewatch my sales calls because I
close everyone. But money is a lagging indicator. So if
you stop doing the things that got you to be
so great, it might not affect you that day, but
it'll affect you in two months, and then you'll wake
up one day and be like, weir, did it all
go well? Because two months ago you stopped doing the
things that made you great in the first place. So

(01:38:19):
sales is all about being the best, Yes, But staying
at the top is a big stressor as well, because
you have to keep up with that level of pressure
where everybody's looking at you and saying you're the best
closer on our team, like what's your secrets? Blah blah blah,
But also being humble enough to know that you could
go down the line at any point in time, so

(01:38:40):
you need to keep doing the things that got you there.

Speaker 2 (01:38:42):
Yeah. Good advice, Good advice. Fifth and final question, we
asked this to every guest who's ever been on the show, Shelby.
If you could create one law that everyone in the
world had to follow, what would it be?

Speaker 1 (01:38:53):
The law that you have to use the cards that
you were dealt. A lot of the times I see
women specifically feel bad about an unfair advantage that they've
been dealt, Like everybody has a deck of cards, right,
and maybe one of your cards is you have family money,
Like you've got daddy's money, Daddy did very well for
himself and you are financially set. Okay, use that card

(01:39:15):
and don't feel bad about it. Maybe one of your
cards is you're really good at talking to people. Don't
hump try to humble yourself by doing something outside of
your skill set, Like take that unfair advantage and use it.
Or maybe you're gorgeous, go model, Go put yourself in
front of a camera and go viral, Like, use every
single unfair advantage and don't ever feel bad about doing so.

(01:39:38):
So the law would be, I guess, just yeah, you know,
using all of the cards that you were dealt and
not faking humility in order to, you know, play it fair.
You don't have to play fair. Nobody else is playing fair,
So do what you can to get ahead with the
cards that you were dealt.

Speaker 2 (01:39:53):
Yeah, yeah, well said Yeah, I think there's so many
of us that totally do the opposite. Yeah, absolutely right, Well.

Speaker 1 (01:39:59):
I see a And I think it's cool too, though
on one hand, because it's like, oh, you have family money,
but you want to go make a name for yourself
in a completely different facet like great. But also it's
like a lot of people have so many advantages in
their book and they don't realize that they have them. Yeah, yeah,
you know, and it's like you do, you're just not
focusing on it, or you're focusing on what's in somebody

(01:40:20):
else's deck and you're not looking at yours, and you're
not doing things in order to get more cards in
your deck. Again, building these skills, building experience for yourself
in order to have more cards that you can be dealt.
So I think a lot of people just don't play
the game of life to the full advantage that they could.

Speaker 2 (01:40:38):
Yeah, all said Shelby, thank you so much. This is awesome.
Your advice, your inside, your motivation and inspiration is contagious,
and I can't wait to see so many more people
come to your work to be able to learn from
you how to sell better, to negotiate better, to persuade better,
get the rais they deserve, make the money they deserve,
and really create abundance in the world where more people

(01:41:00):
are living a more full life. So thank you so
much all for it. Thank you, it's awesome. Thank you.
If you love this episode, you love my conversation with
doctor Joe Dispenser on why stress and overthinking negatively impacts
your brain and heart and how to change your habits
that are on autopilot. Listen to it right now. How
many times do we have to forget until we stop

(01:41:23):
forgetting and start remembering.

Speaker 1 (01:41:24):
That's the moment of change. Who cares how many times
you fell off the bicycle if you ride the bicycle.

Speaker 2 (01:41:29):
Now you ride the bike.

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Jay Shetty

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