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November 11, 2022 40 mins

Ed talks with Terrance Woodbury, Chief Executive Officer & Founding Partner of HIT Strategies, a public opinion and research company that specializes in researching Millennials, People of Color, LGBTQ+, and other underserved communities. They talk about the 2022 midterms. The future of the voting public and power of the emerging minority vote. They also discussed the chances of a Biden-Trump rematch in 2024,  the future of Stacey Abrams and what Black voters should do to become more strategically powerful during the next race for the White House and beyond.

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Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome to the latest edition of one hundred The Ed
Gordon Podcast. Today a conversation with Terrence Woodberry, chief executive
officer and founding partner of HIT Strategies, a public opinion
and research company that specializes in researching millennials, people of color,
lgbt Q plus, and other underserved communities. They were heavily

(00:44):
involved in polling and tracking voters during the mid terms,
especially concentrating on the Democratic voter. We spoke a few
days after the election when some races were still undecided
and the House and Senate numbers we're still up in
the air. Talk to me about the overall black vote

(01:04):
and what we saw, turnout, enthusiasm, et cetera. Yeah, you know,
at black voters are doing what they have to do here,
you know. Uh, but we've seen the black vote increase,
not significantly, but it's one percent higher than it was
in But what's significant there is that voters of color
and young voters always decline during the mid term always,

(01:29):
and so it's it's not the one point increase that
I'm impressed by. It's that we maintained our vote share
from from a presidential year, from the highest voting presidential
year in history, black voters maintained that in the mid term.
And it reminds me of what what a young man
was telling me in focus groups in Philadelphia a few
weeks ago, when I was asking about enthusiasm, and we've

(01:49):
seen these enthusiasm gap measurements. We've seen that Democrats closing
the enthusiasm gap in the last few weeks. Well, I
was never really that concerned about enthusiasm because Black voters
don't always vote enthusiastically. But it doesn't mean we're not voting,
you know. I let me ask you this when I
hear and I've been hearing it for years, when you hear, well,
people don't turn out for mid term there's always a

(02:11):
change historically from the party in office. Blah blah blah
blah blah. How much of that has to do with
the apathetic voter the second time around after a presidential election.
How much of it has to do with, quite frankly,
the idea that too often those in power don't give
the voter what they want or need in order for

(02:34):
them to enthusiastically or unenthusiastically come out and vote the
second go round. That's a good place to start. Ad
because I think that is the most the single most
important dynamic in this selection. Right, everyone was setting expectation
based on historic precedent that the party in power will
always lose even sixty seats in the mid term. Democrats

(02:59):
are on to lose five or six seats as opposed
to the sixty um that that Barack Obama lost it
in his first term. But but while we were focused
on the historic precedent, we weren't taking a consideration that
we are living in an unprecedented time and that we
have an unprecedented electorate. Right in two thousand eighteen, we

(03:23):
activated forty million new mid term voters. Forty million. It
was a fifteen increase in the mid term UH turnout.
That was more than three times the increase of any
mid term in history. Right. And so while we look
at the historic precedent of the candidates that we vote for,
we have to also look at the president of the

(03:45):
voters that are choosing those candidates. And since Donald Trump
was elected, we have injected millions of new voters into
the electorate. And we thought that they were anti Trump,
anti MAGA voters that showed up in two thousand eighteen
and showed up againning twenty and fired him. Well, those
same voters showed up in and that now makes them

(04:06):
likely but three out of three supervoters, right, they have
now changed the elector in ways that we will continue
that that that will continue to determine outcomes out of elections.
Uh for the next few cycles. Let's talk about what
we heard in some polling corners and certainly through the
media prior to election day. That was we were going
to see this huge red wave. Black men weren't going

(04:30):
to turn out to vote. Um, as you look at
the engagement after election day, we know the red wave,
as you know was projected, didn't happen. Talk to me
about the black mail vote. Uh, you know where that went,
where it helped, hurt, et cetera. Mm hmm. So Ever,

(04:51):
since two thousand and eight, Barack Obama entered the political
stage after that election, in every election since then, we
have seen less black men vote for Democrats and every
single election more black men vote for Republicans. And every
cycle since Barack Obama entered the political the political stage,
we saw that reverse. On Tuesday, we saw that trend

(05:14):
reverse for the first time in sixteen years. UM. That
that it is very likely that more black men voted
for Democrats in this election than they did in and
that would be the first time that trend reversed in
almost twenty years. But but also you know that red
wave was also met with uh, we were expecting a
pink wave. UM And I don't see all of the

(05:37):
evidence of that just yet, we're still counting votes. But
what we do see as a young wave, right, that
young people showed up surged in this election in ways
that they typically have not And and the way that
really showed was on election day because of the youth,
because young voters were underperforming their uh, their early vote.

(05:59):
Tern know, from we were beginning to expect that there
could be a drop off of young voters, when in fact,
what we now see is that young voters just returned
to their pre pandemic voting patterns. They all voted on
election day, and so that wave of Republican votes that
we expected to come on election day and wipe out
Democratic advantages was met with a wave of young voters

(06:23):
that overwhelmingly supported Democrats. Let me take you to the
front end of what we talked about here. Why do
you believe or what do the number show? Um? And
the polling show is the reason that black men have
been voting Republicans. So I want to push back a
little bit because the overwhelming majority of black men still

(06:44):
vote for Democrats. By percent of black men, uh, still
vote for Democrats. The problem that we started to the
trend were two or three percent increase every cycle, was
that we dropped froment of black men's votes to right.
And while that's a marginal, substantial margin, though, that's exactly right,
and it's enough to determine the outcome of many races.

(07:06):
That gender gap would have been the difference for Jamie Harrison,
and it would have been a difference for cal Cunningham
and North Carolina. That just closing that black gender gap
would have been enough to to flip a lot of races.
A part of why it's happening, though, uh, And look, man,
we've done over two hundred focus groups with black men

(07:26):
trying to figure out this exact question. And there's a
there's a there's a there's a bunch of reasons. There's
some values reasons that that Democrats seem to be moving
away from values that black men prioritize, values like masculinity, Christianity,
things that are being owned by the by conservatives and
by the right. Um. But but there's also some very

(07:49):
transactional reasons that they believe that Republicans are better on
economic issues, and specifically that Donald Trump was better for
the black community economically. Um And And the reason we
saw that trend reverse that for the first time, more
black men voted for Democrats than the last election. It's
because of the economic progress that this president has in

(08:11):
fact made. I have heard a number of people suggest that.
But I also heard a number of black men tell
me when Trump was in office that they were employed
at that time. They stayed employment. It's just an interesting
juxtaposition of where black men sit socially, what Republicans believe

(08:33):
in in terms of their front and how those two
puzzle pieces somehow have have found a way to coexist.
It's it's just a dynamic I can't figure out at
this point. That's exactly right. I was in Miami Dade,
where it is very likely that Marco Rubio will win
Miami Dade and we'll probably win it by double digits,

(08:54):
which is just unbelievable. This is the county that Barack
Obama carried by thirty or forty points is now being
by Republicans by double digits. But I'm not surprised by
that because a month ago I was in Miami, date
I had focus groups with ten black men, and half
of them told me that their lives were better when
Donald Trump was president. And none of them said that
it was important for Democrats and maintain control of Congress,

(09:17):
not because they wanted Republicans to control Congress, but because,
like one of them told me, they've had control and
what have they done with it? You know? Uh? And
so when I probe those black men, the five that
said their lives were better on the Donald Trump, I
wouldn't let them get off easy. We had to spend
some time here until they gave me a list of examples,
and they specifically said, you know, uh, it just felt

(09:39):
like I was doing better economically. They were these general
perceptions of of doing better. One of them did say
that every time he looked up, he had another twelve
in the in the bank. Well, we know that's not true.
That happened exactly one time. But all of that contribute
to this perception that Donald Trump can handle business. Donald

(10:00):
Trump is a billionaire. He can help us all reach
better prosperity um, and that we were able to reverse
that with progress, with pot with investments like the child
tax credit that reduced black poverty, with student loan relief,
reducing the cost of prescription drugs and insulin to thirty
five dollars. These are transactional things that black men can

(10:22):
say and see how they help people in their community.
So let me take you to that, because if nothing else,
Donald Trump has been, for the remainder of or for
all of I should say, his adult life, a great marketer.
Whether you like him or not, he has marketed hisself
and his brand in a way that very few could
stand neck and neck with him. One of the other

(10:43):
things I think that you and I could agree on
very easily is that Democrats have floundered in marketing what
they have done for decades. Now, how do they learn
a lesson? As four looms with the idea that, in
spite of all you ticked off a number of things
that the Biden administration has done. Off times, when you

(11:06):
ask people just across the kitchen table, what is the
Biden administration done? They may come up with one or
two things. They'll say, well, they fought for abortion, but
they cannot really suggested in an assertive way. Why is that?
You know? Uh, when we talked to black men about

(11:28):
about the about their appeal to Trump, and I asked
him to give me a list. There's three things. They say.
Every time that he invested in hbc S, he had
the lowest black unemployment at rate in history. And the
first step back, you know, criminal justice reform every single time,
and every group, every room, every age, every demo, the

(11:48):
same three things. And it was so interesting this all.
I'm glad we got back to in person focus groups
I can get from behind the zoom screen. They literally
list them. They like their fingers come out. They say, well,
He's done these three things. And so when I look
back at this Facebook library of ads that the Donald
that the Trump campaign used to target black men, because
Facebook has gotten so transparent, you can go and look

(12:09):
at it now. I'm I'm using air quote quotes, folks,
but so transparent. But when you look at that library,
every single ad that the Trump campaign used to target
black men literally had a checklist at the top of
it that said first step act lowest check lowest on
a green check mark. You know, the list is what

(12:31):
they were reciting. Back to me, right. And so what
Democrats are going to have to figure out was a
couple of things. One they got to get into the
political theater. It's not enough to pass the policy policies
in progress, right, Passing legislation about ripping up every lab
pipe in America doesn't change the fact that in Flint
they're still drinking dirty water. Right, But the the theater

(12:54):
is to now go to Flint, put on a hard hat,
and put out some shovels and line up the cameras. Right. Uh,
while they're still talking about Donald Trump's investments in HBCUs. Well,
that's because they remember the picture of Kelly and Conway
on the couch with our feed up in the couch.
Black folks remember because we was so disgusted by that.
But what we but the image was twenty black HBCU

(13:17):
president standing behind Donald Trump. Well, since then, Joe Biden
has made has doubled the investment in HBCUs twice as
much as Trump since then, and they're still talking about
Trump's investment. We didn't have hbc US in the Rose Garden.
We didn't have our our HBCU vice president or HBCU
candidates in Georgia go to Spellman and Morehouse and pass

(13:38):
out big old clearinghouse checks. That's the theater that we're missing.
This is a messaging problem for Gordon and and not
a not a governing problem. What do you think has
to be done in terms of how you translate that
message as well as a lot of black voters. This

(13:58):
is anecdotal, like that, I better say that to somebody
like you. It's very anecdotal. But it seems to me
that Democrats, particularly over this cycle, had to find out
what wasn't right by means of Republicans versus what we
did right. So abortion, when Roe versus Way went away,

(14:20):
they jumped on that train very quickly because they didn't
know what else to jump on to give that message,
and they knew that it was going to be visceral
so they could utilize it. I called Trump the boogeyman.
We got a boogeyman. But if this is any indication
of America kind of pushing away from Trump, mhm, you're

(14:40):
not going to have that same boogeyman. Will do Santis
or others be as scary? So how do you turn
that train to say, yeah, we'll still put those things
out front. But look at what we did. Look at
what we did, Look at what we did. Yeah, that's right, Democrats,
in order to maintain this surge, call listen that we've
talked about these twenty thirty million new voters that have

(15:04):
injected into the body politics, specifically to push back on
the toxicity of Trump, specifically to fight back on the
threat of Republicans, the threat of abortion rights, the threat
of voting right. You know, the threat is what mobilized
a lot of our voters this time. But Democrats are
going to have to put put out a proactive vision
and agenda. And I think that there's a couple of

(15:25):
things that they can do here because again they're getting
the policy done. You know. They banned choke codes and
no knock warrants, They ended the relationship with federal prisons.
They made the biggest climate investment in Earth's history, not
American historists, the single biggest invent like this is the
climate change president. Nobody will evercall him that he is
the climate change president, you know, but it's going to

(15:48):
require us to make a few shifts. And if if
anyone listened to the President yesterday and on Wednesday after
the election, he just gave a whole speech about the
midterm and listening to it was, you know, I've done this,
and I've passed that, and I the most legislation, and
I he's gonna have to reorient the story. And the

(16:08):
hero of this story are the voters, right, It's it's
the Barack Obama. Yes we can you know what we
can do together, and not what I have done, because uh,
they just don't buy it, right. And so that's the
first thing, is like re orient the hero. Make the
voters the hero of the story because you voted, we

(16:29):
reduced child poverty by But the second thing it's going
to be to connect them to these resources. Joe Biden
is a creature of legislation, and he believes that progress
is passing a bill. Well, that's not progress for folks
until they can click here and access those three million

(16:50):
infrastructure jobs, or click here and access that student loan
forgiveness application, or click here and access a map of
these lab pipe that are getting ripped up in my neighborhood.
And I want to see each one get ripped and
let me look at the map, or next month they're
doing that one. That's the progress. That's the politics that
we've got to get right because he's getting the policy right.

(17:11):
So how do you do that with a man of
his age? Let's just be honest about it. I mean,
that's the kind of elephant in the room. He's only
going to be able to do that so much. You know,
he is a creature of the times he came from,
and the times he came from was the belief I
heard him say, you know right after the election, well,

(17:34):
I still want to work with Republicans, but the reality
is Republicans don't want to work with you. I had
the same discussion with President Obama, who was conciliatory in nature.
But in order to do that, the person across from
you has to be conciliatory or it will not work.
So how do you change the dynamic of a man
who is set in his ways to a degree that

(17:56):
helps in some ways? Um, and it's a hindrance and something,
well he's about to find out if how it's just
how conciliatory they are when they are dragging members of
his administration in front of that, in front of the
hearings every day. But you know one thing, Joe Biden
has these assets at his disposal, including the most diverse

(18:19):
cabinet and history, you know, uh, including this HBCU vice
president who you don't see anymore. That's exactly right. And
so a part of how we get Joe Biden to
make this political and messaging shift is to move the
shift from Joe Biden right. It is you know, Jill

(18:42):
Biden should be talking about the investments that we're making
in colleges across the country. Right. Marcia Fudge, Secretary of
Housing and Urban Development, should be talking about the billions
of dollars they've invested in affordable housing. Pete Buddha, millennial
lgbt Q Secretary of Transportation should be out here with

(19:02):
a hard hat and and and uh and a shove
win his hand every day with cameras in front of him.
But to concern you and I both know this from
Biden's kitchen cabinet was I don't want these folks outshining
my president. That is we're gonna We're gonna to let
that go. I mean, uh, if Joe Biden does not

(19:24):
have the stamina, momentum, or desire to host ten political
rallies a week, then we're going to have to employ
some people that will. We're gonna have to send Pete
out there to host these rallies and Marcia Fudge to
host these rallies. I mean, it's an impressive bench. These
are remembering that most of these folks were on the

(19:46):
presidential stage with him just two years ago, and we'll
probably find themselves on the presidential stage again. They want
to audition for America, you know, send them out there
and let him do it. Yeah, I don't know. Altruism
isn't always the thing that is in spades, uh, in
a in an oval office, not just Joe Biden's. Let
me take you to some individuals and get your thoughts

(20:07):
on them. Uh. Let me let me start with what
Westmore impressively did in Maryland. Uh. And and whether or
not you think that is an anomaly or a future
trend that we can see, because as you and I
both know, winning statewide office for any African American in
any state is very difficult. Yeah, that's right. And and

(20:29):
Wes is incredibly impressive. I'm from Maryland and understand the
dynamics of these politics uniquely. And the part that has
not been told in the Westmore story is that he
was coming off of the single most popular governor in America.
You know, Larry Hogan, a Republican in a blue state,
was the most popular governor in the entire country. I

(20:51):
think he had a seventy eight percent approval rating, which
is just unheard of. It means that half of Democrats
wanted him to remain governor. And so that's that's a
that's a dynamic there that West had to overcome. Right,
he has a very different politics than Larry Hogan, um,
and very different policies, and he was able to assemble
a dynamic coalition. I do think Maryland is unique, uh

(21:14):
in delivering the third black governor in American history, because
about half of our electorate are people of color. You know,
Maryland is is the most informed electored in the nation.
It's one of the most diverse electors in the nation,
and one of the most progressive. And so I'm proud
of what we've done in Maryland. I don't think that
that is an anomaly. I think that we're going to

(21:34):
see a lot more black governors at a lot more diversity,
um in these executive offices. Stacy Abrams Uh, A lot
of people had a lot of hope there, um, But frankly,
it seemed. She seemed her campaign seemed to generate more
excitement the first time than this time. UH. Stacy Abrams

(21:59):
is an incredibly inspiring political figure. And focus groups across
the country after we act, what do you think about Democrats?
We always ask well, which one is getting it right?
Which Democrats do you believe in? Stacy was not just
an inspirational lightning rod in Georgia, it was across the country.

(22:19):
You hear names like Stacy Abrahams, like AOC like Beeto
that have become representatives far beyond the district or the
state that they represent. They represent a style of politics
that the emerging electorate uh IS is attracted to. Now,
now what happened in Georgia is unfortunate, but it's I

(22:41):
want to be clear that like Stacy did not win
her election, but Stacy is winning Georgia. Stacy's strategy and
body politics, Stacy's infrastructure, New Georgia Project, Fair Fight. This,
This UH infrastructure that she's been building for over a
decade has shifted that state UH in in in irreversible ways,

(23:03):
but also has inspired something across that entire sun belt
South Carolina and North Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, it's dark red,
deep red states are all looking at electorates with black
voters and only half of them are voting. And they're
seeing what Stacy just did, and they're and they're beginning

(23:25):
to shift the tide of the of the South. What
do you say to those who push back and say, yeah,
that sounds good. Um, she Beto Rourke and others may
speak to you know here my air quotes going, uh,
you know, the new candidate, the kind that young people
seek and look out too. But they're not winning anything.

(23:51):
I know a little bit less of Alberto and the
dynamics of that race, but I know I know what
happened in Georgia, and and and I think we have
a pretty clear idea of how she lost and where
she lost. Um, Stacy was not more inspiring in two
thousand eighteen. She was just new, you know, she was

(24:12):
new to a scene. I can see that. Yeah, her
the inspiration and her and her style of politics was
equally as inspiring. But Stacy lost in Georgia not because
of any fault of Stacy, not because of any flaw
in her campaign or her strategy. Stacy lost in Georgia
because she was running against a much more formidable opponent.

(24:32):
Ryan Kemp, as an incumbent who had defied Donald Trump
and recoalesced the entire Trump coalition while still appealing to
moderates while looking reasonable to people of color, was just formidable.
And and and I don't know that Stacy could have
done anything different than she than she did to change
the outcome, except for run against a weakurrent opponent. Yeah.

(24:54):
And I think that's a great point. I think sometimes
we let politics get in the way and don't look
at the idea of a skilled politician. Right, that's right
amongst the best. She's top three politicians on either side
in America. We are not done filling the impact of Stacy.
But I also don't think that we're done voting for Stacy.

(25:16):
I think. But but I also think to to that
same end, we've got to look at what to your point,
what Kemp did? I mean, he understood the dynamic of
playing it the way he played it. Sometimes old school
politics works, and that's what he was able to do.
Let me take you, let's stay in Georgia and take
you to you know, one of the most confounding races

(25:37):
I've ever seen, and that is uh, the war knock walker. Uh,
I'll call it. You don't have fiasco, And I just
mean all across the board with this thing. You know,
we found a runoff. It is um, as I said,
confounding to me that we are even in this place,
that there are people who could set their sights on

(26:00):
an idea of herschel Walker being fit for this office.
For I'm not talking about Republicans magna. I just mean
someone fit uh psychologically, emotionally, um to hold this office. Um,
what do you what do you see in that? Oh? Man?

(26:20):
This is this is going to be a textbook for
us to learn from. How did conservative Christian values, family value?
White Uh nationalists? Can't voters hold their nose and vote

(26:41):
for someone that represents everything that they have seemingly opposed
in politics their whole lives? Right? How did seventy of
white women vote for a man that they knew beat
multiple wives? How did this? He would say allegedly? Allegedly? Uh,

(27:07):
I'm not sure that he would say allegedly. I don't
think that he ever denied any of these accusations. Well,
he might not say allegedly because that may not be
in his vocabulary. But someone would tell him to say allegedly,
which he would say because of mental illness, that I,
you know, and I've gotten better. He would not deny
that he held a gun to her head. He talked
about Russian Roulette himself. What the trigger tears? What I said,

(27:31):
somehow those conservative white Christian life they voted from anyway.
And so there's a there's a dynamic happening in Georgia
that I think begins to explain this. Uh. Georgia is
one of the most rapidly diversifying states in American. In fact,
it Georgia and Arizona are the two most rapidly diversifying
states in America. The difference between Georgia and Arizona is

(27:53):
that Arizona is being diversified by people of color. Georgia
is being diversified by black people, by black people, right
like explicitly, it is black people that are changing the
demographics of Georgia. And the more that this is so wild, Uh,
I wish I could put up a graph right now
for you for your listeners. The more diverse, for every

(28:14):
point that that Georgia electorate becomes more diverse, white voters
support Democrats by one point less. It is a direct
correlation every time we enter more people of color into
the elector more white people are voting for Republicans, a
very specific brand of Republican right. And I think that's
important because it is a dynamic that I think is

(28:39):
emblematic of what's happening in the country. This like tribalization
of white voters that feel like they are losing something
that they knew and that they had. If we don't
figure it out in Georgia, they could were white resentment
could reverse faster than black diversification and and call back

(28:59):
the game is that we've made in Georgia. And I
believe that was happening in Georgia is just going to
continue being replicated. So we gotta mean it's it's reminiscent
to white flight to a great degree, you know in
the late sixties. That's right. I mean that that that
that Christian Values candidates would not I'm sorry, Christian Values
voters would not find Reverend Dr Rofier. We're not compelling. Yeah,

(29:25):
it's just there's something else happening that we've got to
figure out. Let me ask you something that that was
interesting to me, because when you when you talk about
losing seats in the House, which Democrats will do. We
don't know what that number will end up being, but
they will lose some seats. I also looked at the
idea of val Demmings, who ultimately lost her race, and

(29:45):
Karen Bass, who is in limbo right now waiting for
those numbers to be counted in Los Angeles. We're two
formidable people in the House that will not be there.
And as those of us who understand and no Capitol Hill, Uh,
it is about understanding the dynamics of Capitol Hill that
really moves things there. Um, how much of a hit

(30:10):
will that be to lose those two? I mean it is,
it is considerable. You know, both of them represent um
extremely important perspectives and and and in the body politics.
Karen Bass in particular, was a prolific legislator. Was the
speaker of the California Assembly. That made her an extremely

(30:31):
effective legislator, former chair of their Congression of Black Caucus.
She was a force. You know, Maxine became a vaccine
Waters became a cult classic from millennials in gen Z.
But Karen Bass is a force. Uh, the worker b
that's right, that's right. She She may not grab the
mic every time it's gone. If Maxine is the queen Bee,

(30:53):
that's right, she's the worker Bee, that's exactly right, and
and and a legislative work corse she was, I think
that she could pull it off. In in Los Angeles,
they're waiting on a lot of mail in ballots. I
think they have until Saturday to keep waiting, and we
know those melon ballots are going to benefit Karen bass Uh. Then,
vald there's something else happening in Florida. For us to

(31:15):
lose Miami Dade by double digits, a black woman to
lose Florida by double digits. I am not a conspiracy theorist,
but there's more than just votes happening there. Something is
happening in Florida, misinformation, disinformation, things that were not detecting
that are that are changing the dynamics of Florida. Let
me take you to one question before we end up,

(31:37):
and I want to kind of get your prognostication for um.
I look at abortion. It was interesting because initially when
Row went down, Democrats saw a lane for them and
they ran to fill it. And then it looked like

(31:58):
because of the economy that abortion might have to take
a backseat. It certainly lost some space uh within the media,
Yet on election day we saw that it was more
important than the media was portraying at the end of
the day. Yet it really does speak to the issue

(32:20):
of the movement by Republicans to push everything back to
states rights. How do we look at abortion as a
bell weather to what I think we're going to see
many other issues, particularly if they own the House, uh
and if if in fact they kept capture. I think

(32:40):
you're going to see a mass, mass push or states
rights for these issues. I mean, I think that one
way to think about it, or one way to imagine
what this looks like is to just look at Florida. Right.
It is a It's a petri dish of all of
these states rights issues. What you know, parental control over

(33:03):
classrooms don't say gay bill uh UM, voting, voting rights access,
all of these things that are that that were that
had federal protections because we consider them inelienable. No state
can can revoke your right to vote or revoke the
your autonomy over your body. By pushing them back to

(33:23):
the states, we're allowing what's happening in Florida, UH to
potentially happen across the nation. And I think what it's
going to require is a it's a new type of
civic education, right, teaching young voters, black voters, And remember
where we started at those thirty or forty million surge voters.

(33:47):
By definition, they're new to the body politics. They don't
know points of intervention for a new piece of legislation,
or here's who you call, or here's the meeting, the
town hall meeting you could show up to or because
is one thing we're learning about these voters. They are
willing to engage in a much deeper way, right the

(34:08):
way Republicans have white parents burning down school boards and
knocking down election of fish election, Uh, precincts like our
voters will activate beyond just voting, especially when the issues
that they care the most about are so accessible that

(34:29):
they're at a Tuesday meeting three blocks away from their house.
That's there's just a level of civic education of engaging
this new electorate and teaching them how to how to
affect the issues that are being determined at a state
in the local level. Um. And I think that we're
it could really cause a political realignment. Yeah. Lastly, I

(34:51):
want you to give, if you would some instruction to
voters who too often see election day is their final day,
and I always say that's day one that you really
should be engaged from that point on, particularly if your
candidate wins. It's a quid pro quote, they owe you
something now, and too often we just kind of put
our hands up and said, we do our you know,

(35:12):
we did our civic duty and move on in either
way to be you know, pleased by what we see
or disappointed by what we see and have had no
engagement either way. Um, what do you see for four
in terms of the black vote and what would you
like to see as we head towards from the black voter.

(35:34):
That's right. I'm glad you asked that, because, you know,
we talk a lot about political power and the the
connection between perceptions of power and political participation. Those that
feel like they have power, they use it, you know,
and so it's a part of what we've been trying
to reorientize is that political power is just electoral power. Well,

(35:58):
in fact, that's just the that's the beginning of the power.
After electoral power, you also have negotiating power, right, the
power to move candidates closer to your position see LGBTQ
community and Barack Obama, they elected him and then they
negotiate it with him and they moved him to marriage equality. Right,
But then you also have accountability power. But that's the protest,

(36:20):
that is, we try to negotiate with you, and you
still ain't doing what we need you to do. And
now we're gonna stand outside your office with ten people,
and then a hundred people, and then a thousand people,
and then a million people, and then the last one.
And this is the one that I'm find is really
appealing to young people. After you use your electoral power,
after you you're negotiating power, after you protest, well, then
you've got punitive power to fire people. We've tried, we've negotiated,

(36:44):
we've protested, and now you're fired. And once we, you know,
reorient around this this cycle of power and not just
that single day expression of power, then I do think
we can re activate a very different electorate. The last
thing I'll say there's I don't think it's voters job
to activate that power. We need leadership. We need uh,

(37:08):
not just politicians, but local and civic leaders, church leaders,
organizational leaders that begin to engage our our our constituents
this way and I will say this. I said this
off camera with you before we started. I do think
we need the voter to do that because leadership has
failed us. You're right, all of those columns that you've

(37:31):
talked about, we've not seen it, and we've not seen
it for a while now. That's right. So when your
leaders don't do you can either go down and sync
with them, or you can do some degree shake up
the norm and say, if you won't lead us, we
will lead ourselves. That's exactly right. And one thing we

(37:52):
do see in Gen Z and millennials, they are uh
not waiting for leadership to take the positions that they expect.
They are mobilizing and they are doing it themselves. And
so hopefully you know, the next generation here is also
ushering a next type of politics. All right, let me
ask you last thing, and I'm suggesting this is unfair

(38:15):
for the for the long game. So snapshot as of today, right,
we're not even finished with this election. But if you
look at the dollar question for everybody is will we
see Trump Biden again? Uh? Not holding you to this
answer beyond today, but today, what would you say if

(38:40):
I was a betting man? Uh? And understand the dynamics
of these two parties. We are going to see h
Trump Biden reelect. I think to your point, we're still
counting votes in this election. I think if Joe Biden
holds both chambers there, he's not only the presumptive nominee.
There's not a single challenger, yeah chambers, no one can

(39:03):
challenge him. If he loses the House, then it depends
on how on just how much they put his feet
to the feet to the fire. But today I would
I would bet on a on a chop by the reelection,
all right, but I will only hold you till midnight
tonight on that one man, Terence, Thank you man. Appreciate
all your work, and I appreciate that you took a

(39:23):
little time and tried to kind of, you know, get
us out of this malaise and and move us, move
us forward growing. I come on any time, man, Thank
you so much. One is produced by ed Gordon Media
and distributed by I Heart Media. Carol Johnson Green and
Sharie Weldon are our bookers. Our editor is Lance Patton Gerald.

(39:47):
All right composed and performed our theme. Please join me
on Twitter and Instagram at ed L Gordon and on
Facebook at ed Gordon Media. The fodder stood product
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