Grammys CEO: Inside the Minds of Music’s Greatest Artists

Harvey Mason Jr. has worked with some of the most influential artists in history — and now leads the Grammys.

In this conversation, the Recording Academy CEO reflects on what he learned from working closely with icons like Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, and Mariah Carey, and how those lessons shaped the way he thinks about excellence, pressure, and creative longevity.

He also opens up about the Grammys: how voting actually works, why it remains peer-led, what changed after public criticism, and what most people never see in the weeks leading up to music’s biggest night.

This episode is about greatness — how it’s built, how it’s sustained, and how it’s judged — from someone who has lived on both sides of it.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
There's a level of expectation from people like Michael Jackson
sometimes is higher than you have for yourself.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
You're a legendary songwriter and producer. Introducing Harvey Mason Junior,
five time Grammy nominated songwriter and music producer hit Makeup,
behind legends like a week of Frankline, Whitney Houston, Michael Jackson,
and on site from the basketball court to the studio
to the CEO chair. Since twenty twenty one, he has
served as the CEO of the Recording Academy, leading the
Grammys into a new era.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
The Weekend made headlines calling out the Grammys. What was
that like for you to wake up and read those headlines?

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Anytime an artist speaks up, I'm listening. We want to
make sure our award is a peer to peer award.
If we were to open up the fan, then it would.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Turn more into a for up and coming artist out there.
What do they need to be thinking about?

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Authenticity and emotion and connecting with an audience is going
to be what sets you apart.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
A lot of people are writing songs with AI.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
At the Academy, we will accept AI submissions. Artists and
producers and writers are using it every day. We can't
pretend like they're not. But I am going to say
that is absolutely gonna.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
This is Kate Max with Post Run High. Today's conversation
is with Harvey Mason Junior, a Grammy winning producer and songwriter,
the current CEO of the Recording Academy, and a former
Division I basketball player. Thank you so much for being
here and tuning in. Don't forget to follow the show
wherever you are listening. We will be right back with

(01:25):
our conversation after this short break.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Harvey Mason Junior, Welcome to Post Run High.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Thank you. I have a post run high. I feel good.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
I'm so I'm happy. Yeah, we just ran a mile?

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Is that all it was? Was a mile?

Speaker 2 (01:46):
We ran like one point twenty six, felt.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
Like two point something.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
That was good, though it always feels a little bit longer.
I feel like when you're talking and running.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
But you're a good runner, I feel like, I guess
you do this a lot, but being able to talk
and interview and run and I mean it's great, a
lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
It's pre being pregnant. I was great at it.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
I would say now I definitely am a little bit
breathier on the runs. But you know what, different chapters
of life.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
And it's going to continue to change, I'm sure as
you go through the months.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, but you did such a good job. Guys. Harvey
is six'.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
Four you were a basketball PLAYER d one at The
university Of, arizona so back in the, day back in the.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Day but you still got.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
It we'll, see trying to keep it together as long
AS i.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
CAN i get that how to fitness show up in
your life.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Now it's a major part of my. Life every. Day
i'm doing some form of training for, Sure cardio weight,
training a lot of functional strength, training movement, training a
little bit of like, yoga breath, work other things like.
That and THEN i go crazy with just the health,
hacking biohacking and also sauna cold. Plunge BUT i would

(02:55):
say it's maybe slightly, obsessive but definitely SOMETHING i enjoy AND.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
I feel like when you grow up an, athlete especially
somebody that gets the point that's playing basketball at A
d one level at The university Of, arizona it always
stays with.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
You, yeah it. Does it took a couple of years
WHERE i was just, Like i'm sick of working. Out
i'm sick of running and training and being yelled, at
AND i kind of just veged post.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
College post, college that's definitely a.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Thing, YEAH i have two brothers that played lacrosse at.
School they won a national championship and they were saying
they had that same experience. Family it's great athletic family for.
SURE i Mean North jersey is big into the parents
athletes they, were but my parents didn't play.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Lacrosse what did they.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Play my mom was basketballs From New york and my
dad was, football, wrestling kind of did it, all but
we definitely prioritized athletics in the. Household but, THEN i,
mean WHAT i love hearing about your story, too is,
like while athletics were a big part of kind of
what we did extracurricularly to be with other kids and

(03:58):
be on teams and get those lessons life lessons that
you learned.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
From, that we were also LIKE i was super.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
CREATIVE i was in all these different art, programs AND
i THOUGHT i was going to be like A Don,
draper you, know like that's WHAT i.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Loved my brothers were interested.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
In finance and, Economics so it's kind of fun how
people have these dual.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Interests but it's also fun how you can take sports
with you your whole, life and the things you learn
or the values that people you're around espouse and you
absorb are things that can really influence who you are
and how you carry yourself through.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Life how do you feel like the athlete mentality has
translated into your work in the music.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Industry it's interesting because athletics and some of the tenants
or focuses around athletics doesn't generally translate to creative. Endeavors
i'll say, that SO i think the WAY i approach
things is a bit of an anomaly and maybe different than.
Others BUT i really brought a sense of. Competition AND
i know art and making art and being creative is

(04:59):
not normally something that. Competitive BUT i spent a lot
of time trying to get good BECAUSE i SAID i
wanted to be the. BEST i want to work, HARD
i want to get. BETTER i want to get. BETTER
i want to continue to get more knowledge and get
more experienced so THAT i can be the, best to
make the best, music the best. Art So i'm not
sure that's how other people approach. It most people are,
SAYING i have a FEELING i want to share my

(05:19):
story OR i just have to get this emotion. Out
WHEREAS i was really intent on being, GREAT i looked
up to other great writers and producers and artists and
study them and. LEARN i would go to the studio
and work very similar to, sports WHERE i would practice,
basketball watch people's, Shots i'd learn, Plays i'd study from.
Coaches so that was one THING i brought over from.
Sports and then also the ability to work together was

(05:40):
something THAT i think does easily translate and being on
a team and knowing people's strengths and knowing a win
comes from everybody's efforts collectively rather than just one. Person
and making, music you have to have an, artist you
have to have a producer or an, engineer a songwriter
maybe musicians figuring out how to collaborate, there how to
listen and make sure that you're valuing other people's, contributions

(06:02):
much like playing, basketball where you got to have a
point guard passing the, ball you have a, center you
got to have a. Coach so that's something THAT i
definitely took from sports and brought into both music but
also my professional. Life When I'm i'm A ceo of
The Grammy.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
Organization it's INCREDIBLE i also feel like one of the
big things that sports teaches, you especially when you play
at the level that you played, at is you have
to be coachable and you have to be able to
take constructive, criticism whether it's from your teammates or from
your coach. Itself AND i feel like that translates so
well into any, industry you, know whether it be the
music industry or whatever your job may. Be it's kind

(06:36):
of like you have to drop the ego.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Sometimes that's WHAT i was going to.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Say you have to let go of the ego and
you have to do that for the betterment of the
team or the. Objective and that is absolutely something THAT
i think we believe in at The grammy. Organization we
have a great team right. Now we have amazing people
working with, us and we are all of the same.
Mindset it's not about, who it's about the what's and
we talk about. It you're not pointing at other people

(07:02):
about what. Happened you're accepting. Responsibility you're understanding how everyone
plays a role together to make things. Happen and that's
a lot like making. Music you, Know i'm in the
studio still writing and, creating AND i KNOW i can't do.
EVERYTHING i Know i'm not great at, everything BUT i
know THAT i can work with other, people AND i can,
listen AND i can be humble enough to realize there's
greatness THAT i can collaborate.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
With and all those qualities that you just explained are
what makes a great. Leader which it makes sense why
you were nominated to be THE ceo of The Recording
academies in twenty twenty one after your year as INTERMAN
ceo in twenty, twenty which we'll get, To but that
was a very pivotal year in The grammys as far
AS i can.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
Remember twenty twenty was, pivotal twenty twenty one was, pivotal
twenty TWO i mean they just kept. Coming but, yeah
we had some disruption and change that was happening and
potentially needed to happen around that time, period AND i
was at the right place at the right. Time, UNFORTUNATELY
i had the ability to do something hopefully good and

(08:04):
serve our.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Community so before.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
We get to The, grammys which, guys we're going to
get to next BECAUSE i know everybody's going to be
so excited to learn all about The grammys and what
goes into. It two weeks leading up to the big.
Event let's talk a little bit more about your time
at The university Of. Arizona so on our, run we
both shared a commonality OF acl surgeries and knee. Tears
and you've torn YOUR acl three. Times i've torn MY acl.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Twice both knees are the same one to me. TWICE
i did this one, twice this one.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Once, oh so you've done.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Both i've done.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Both great double, whemmy get your rebuild that quad on both.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Sides yeah, right my leg looked like a. Toothpick i'm
sure you know, that and so, skinny no.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Muscle it's a crazy thing to come back.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
From.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah but also WHEN i had my FIRST acl, surgery
it was a long time before you and they had
to do a full cast from your ankle up to your.
Hip AND i was in the hospital FOR i think
nine or ten. Days and then this ONE i had
done more recently AND i walked out of the hospital same. Day.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah very. Different when you say full, cast do you
mean like a cast like they put on your, Arm, yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Full plaster cast ankle to your.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
Hip oh my, GOD i can't even. Imagine it was.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
Brutal, yeah the way they DO acl surgeries now is
so much more, progressive and it's gotten even so much
better SINCE i tour. It we've done, Right BUT i
can't imagine having a full plaster cast.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
And in the hospital for, LIKE i, think maybe nine
or ten.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Days, Nope.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Nope and when you tore, it you were a seat
for the first. Time you were a senior in. College
so how did that also propel your music?

Speaker 1 (09:29):
Career, well it thrust me into a deep, DEPRESSION i will,
say Because i'd been training my whole, life SINCE i
was a young kid to be a basketball. PLAYER i
was working, OUT i was, TRAINING i was, RUNNING i was,
shooting AND i had aspirations of playing in THE. NBA
i was playing at a very high Level division one.
SCHOOL i was. Starting all my teammates are getting, drafted

(09:50):
AND i had hoped to play professional, basketball maybe not
in THE, nba but maybe. Somewhere so when that happened
AND i knew it was the end of my career
and the end of my of, playing you, know continuing to,
PLAY i stewed for a long time and maybe a,
year just trying to figure out WHAT i was going to,
do what was my life going to be? About and

(10:10):
EVENTUALLY i reverted back to my first, love which was.
Music i've been writing songs my whole life SINCE i
was a. KID i always had a keyboard in my dorm.
Room after, PRACTICE i would come back and make. Music
so through that YEAR i realized that music was almost
like a therapy for, me and it was something that
really got me through that. PERIOD i know that sounds,
dramatic but after you've done something your whole life and

(10:32):
it's taken away from, you you really are. Lost and
so music was something that was my. Respite it was my,
medicine AND i used that period of a year to
perfect writing songs and creating. Music and after about a
year's time of really being, DISAPPOINTED i, SAID i don't
know What i'm looking. For WHAT i love is right.
Here it's.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
Music it's amazing how when one door, closes another one
really does. Open AND i MEAN i have a very
similar experience where WHEN i tore my acl for the
first time and then again literally the year, later that same.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Need after rehabbing all the work of.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
Course and like, thinking, okay Like i'm going to get
back to playing. Lacrosse i'm going to do what my
brothers are. Doing you know it is so hard when
especially as, kids you, know because at the end of the,
day like whether you're in, college high, school, grammars but
you're a, kid right your kid till you graduate school
and my kid till twenty five in my opinion at this.
Point but it really does change yourself of your self
identity and who you, are and it propels you in

(11:29):
a different. Direction and at the time it can feel so,
overwhelming like so many emotions at, once where it does
put you into a bit of a state of depression.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Where you're, like, well what DO i do?

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Now i've trained my whole life for this one, thing
and now you're telling me that's not going to. Happen
it is a really challenging thing to get through such
a crazy injury like.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
That but you got, through and here you. Are you
know what was the first like.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
Pivotal job for you post college that really made you feel, Like,
OKAY i can do this thing within the music?

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Industry, well SINCE i grew up in a music, HOUSEHOLD
i saw my parents the music. Industry my dad is
still in the, industry SO i KNEW i could do,
it BUT i just didn't know that that was my.
Thing WAS i didn't know that was my. Passion and
so after college and after the injury and through the depression,
period the first breakout moment was the time when somebody

(12:16):
asked me to produce some music for a. Gym it
was an advertised it was a, jingle and they KNEW
i made, music and they, said, well can you just
make a jingle for this fitness. CENTER i was, like, yeah, okay.
FINE i was like in my room making music AND
i created a jingle and then started playing on the
radio and they paid me like eight hundred dollars or.

(12:39):
Something at that, TIME i was, like, wow this is.
AMAZING i made music and you paid me eight hundred.
Dollars AND i knew that was a concept because my,
parents but it hadn't really manifested for me directly until
somebody paid me to do. That and THEN i, said,
okay this is kind of. COOL i can do my
passion of now making music and also earn a. Living
and SO i started doing a lot of. Jingles and

(13:00):
WHILE i was doing, JINGLES i was always, thinking this
is not my long term ultimate. Goal my goal is
to make, records and SO i use the money THAT
i would make from, JINGLES i would use the EXPERIENCE
i would get from making a country western song or
a rock song or a rap song for a burger
stand or a break. STORE i would use that, experience
AND i would take that. Money i'd buy more, equipment

(13:22):
and THEN i would start building up my. Studio and
all those things led me to the place WHERE i
could start making, records and that was kind of the
progression from basketball to.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Music what were some of the jingles that you were?

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Making, oh, Gosh i've made jingles for, everything for miniature golf,
STORES i Did Barbie mattel, TOYS i Did Coca. COLA
i did a lot of different jingles and started with
the local mom and pop shops and then work my
way up to some national.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Commercials would we know any of? Them, like would we recognize?

Speaker 1 (13:50):
One, no they're probably too. Old but the companies you
would recognize and the people THAT i had done work
for for, sure but they're not going to win any.
AWARDS i can tell.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
You how do you make the pivot from doing jingles
to producing and songwriting for people Like Michael, Jackson Whitney,
Houston Mariah, Carey justin.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Bieber, Right, Yeah Justin, timberlake all of both The justin's
how do you make that? Transition it was a great,
experience and you talked about ten thousand hours in interviewing and.
JOGGING i did something similar with, jingles AND i know
that's a, weird circuitous kind of route to being a
music producer and a record, producer but doing jingles for

(14:28):
a person who owns a shoe, store they have very
specific needs for their audience that they want to, reach
and they know who their market, is and you have
to make music for that. Market and it might not
be the type of music THAT i loved or wanted to,
make BUT i was always cognizant of the fact THAT
i was serving that person's, needs and SO i was
able to adapt and make different types of. Music and

(14:49):
that was great training ground for. Me and WHEN i
got a chance to work with, artists it was almost
like consider the, artists like you, know the, breakstore who
are they trying to? Reach what is their, message what's their,
store what's their? Brand what kind of music is going
to resonate with our? Audiences and so that transition and
the translation of my work there to records and artists

(15:11):
was REALLY i think important and differentiating me from a
lot of other?

Speaker 3 (15:14):
Producers is it hard to when you're working with, artists,
because like you, know again we talked about these two
people on the, run but they're the ones that just
stand out to me As i'm, like this is so
cool that you worked With Michael jackson for like eighteen
months on one of his records And Whitney.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
HOUSTON i, mean all time. Greats? Right is it hard
to take your?

Speaker 3 (15:34):
Sound and you can correct me If i'm wrong if
your sound isn't taken, out but is it hard to
take your sound out of the music when you're producing
for other?

Speaker 1 (15:41):
PEOPLE i try not to take my sound. OUT i
try and leave my sound in because one of the
reasons they wanted to work with me is because my
sound and WHAT i do and WHAT i bring to the.
Table WHAT i try not to. Do having said, that
is overdominate or bulldoze somebody else's creativity or their sound
to benefit. MINE i always feel LIKE i am in

(16:02):
service to somebody else's, vision, sound, voice art artistry BECAUSE
i work with, artists AND i worked with a lot
of what you would maybe some call, divas and the
divas are obviously incredibly, talented but they also have very
specific understanding of who their audiences are and the stories
they want to tell and how they want their voice
to be. Used so having my sound support and compliment

(16:26):
them was always my, vision was my, goal and that
was WHY i like to think was why MAYBE i
continue to work and have a good career is BECAUSE
i was always in service to, artists and talk about a,
segue that is the Role i'm in now AS. Ceo
whatever my ideas or thoughts or talents, are is really
secondary to serving the music, community serving artists and producers

(16:49):
and writers and the entire ecosystem of music. Creators in
the role THAT i play at The Grammy.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
Organization in twenty, twenty you were elected as the INTERIM
ceo as they were doing a global search.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
For, WELL i was the board, chair and then when
we did a, TRANSITION i took over as an INTERIM
ceo AND i was going to do it for six,
months maybe a, year so we could figure out how
we were going to find our NEXT. Ceo and that's
when we started the global.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
Search, wow and then it was just kind of like
the BEST ceo is right before our.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
EYES i didn't say, that but some people did say,
that and they said, Well, harvey you've done a good.
Job over the last twelve. Months we've made such great,
progress so many. Changes and my thought during this time period,
was we're going to hand off to somebody who's going
to be an incredible transformational. LEADER i don't want them
to come in to a shop that has maybe some
deficiencies or issues that haven't been addressed. Structurally and SO

(17:41):
i went through AND i tried to change and improve
and evolve i'll, say as much of the processes and
membership and personnel AS i could in preparation to hand
it off to somebody else in good. Condition and so
by the time i'd done that work for the twelve,
months the search committee and the executive committee and the
current board chair asked me IF i would be consider

(18:03):
taking the. Role and at FIRST i said, no that
wasn't my, vision that wasn't WHAT i thought my journey,
was BECAUSE i was still making. MUSIC i was in the,
STUDIO i was producing. Films but at the end of the,
DAY i had been so fulfilled and so pleased with
the work we had done at The academy and how
we had really gotten to the place of again back to,

(18:24):
service and that was really fulfilling AND i enjoyed, it
and it also again paralleled my work as a songwriter
and a. Producer so after talking to my wife and my,
family WHO i absolutely needed their support because it was
a lifestyle, CHANGE i accepted the. Job and now we're
five years, LATER i can't believe.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
It and you've been able to manage both your life
as a creative and a creator and a producer and
a songwriter and you, know just all the things in
the industry with doing this ROLE seo of The Recording.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Academy i'm so thankful because the chair and the trustees
of The academy allowed me to do, that AND i
do think IT'S i think it's a great. DECISION i
think they were incredibly smart to.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Allow it because he's got that dog and him, guys
it's the athlete of.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Mentality, WELL i.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Just think having A ceo that runs a music organization
that serves music, people having that person be a musician
and a creator and to have those relationships and maintain
the touch points with the community and with the craft
and with the profession only benefits our. Organization it definitely
benefits me AS i do my job AS ceo BECAUSE
i hear what's going. On i'm really talking to artists

(19:34):
on an everyday basis with the, community and SO i
think we can do a better job of serving the
community BECAUSE i am still.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
Involved you are an, artist so you're seeing it through
an artist, perspective WHICH i agree is.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
So, important and you wouldn't want to lose that by
just all of a sudden Saying, okay now you're THE,
Ceo you're not going to do your artistry, anymore because having,
THAT i think is really it makes a big difference for.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
US i, know you came in during a hot, time
and in the past several years a hot.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Time, guys there's a lot going.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
On there's a lot of change happening in the, industry
whether it be with the actual Recording academy itself to
then you, KNOW i know you guys in twenty twenty
seven are switching To disney to be you, know now
the show is going to.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Be streamed more hot, times more hot.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
Times like it's just it's this really fun PERIOD i
think to be THE ceo to you, know be at
the forefront of all these changes. Happening BUT i remember
in twenty twenty and you've talked about this in the.
Past The weekend made headlines right for calling out The
grammys for. Transparency what was that like for you to

(20:43):
wake up and read those?

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Headlines it was, hard BUT i understood, it and it
really it didn't make me. Angry it made me realize
that there were more things that we could do. Again
AND i don't remember if it was twenty twenty or
it might have been twenty one or two Because i'd
been in the role for a. Minute but it also
made me realize that our work wasn't. Done we had

(21:05):
to continue to do. More we wanted to continue to
be better and evolve a lot of things that we.
Did and anytime an artist speaks, up whether it's publicly
or just calls me and text, Me i'm listening with both.
Ears i'm, like, oh, OKAY i didn't see. That let
me figure out how we can adjust or how we
can take in what you've given us and use it

(21:27):
to benefit and be, better because, really people like him or,
others those are the people that we want to, Serve
we want to do right, By so when somebody speaks
up and gives us, feedback we definitely pay close.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
Attention, yeah AND i think those artists are also always
paying close attention to you, guys and you hear it
in their speech is they always pay respect to the academies.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
When they win an.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
Award but, like let's talk about some of the things
that when you came in SO ceo as an, artist
with the background that you, have what were some of
the things that you were, LIKE i want.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
To change these? Things and how have you guys gone?
About the.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
Organization is an incredible, place and it's been around for
sixty eight years and they've done just ridiculous amounts of great.
Work and so WHEN i got in, PLACE i was
already so appreciative and so honored to be a part
of the. Organization, No i've been on the board for
fifteen or twenty, years but through that TIME i did
see some things that maybe we could could flip up

(22:22):
a little bit and. IMPROVE i thought a lot of
it started with, membership AND i had a lot of
alignment with our chair and with our board and tons of.
Support but we knew that the membership was the beginning
and the genesis of everything that we do at The.
Academy so members obviously vote and members create all the.
Proposals they determined some of the processes around awards and.

(22:44):
Categories so without the right, membership the organization can't be
set up. Properly so a lot of our early work
was around how do we bring in the most relevant
and representative membership that can accurately listen to music and
understand the different genres and then vote at the nominations.
Right so early work was requalifying our, membership bringing in new,

(23:05):
members looking at the genre diversity of our membership and,
saying do we have enough people that know this? Genre
do know enough people that have this genre? Expertise do
we have enough? Women do we have enough people of?
Color these are all things that we were struggling with
early on at The. Academy and it wasn't for a
lack of, trying or it wasn't for any insidious. Reason

(23:25):
it was just over the years the way The academy
had progressed and. Moved so we took a really close
look at that and made huge strides.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
There would you guys ever bring in fan? Voting is
that a?

Speaker 1 (23:36):
THING i don't think SO i won't say never because
we don't know what's going to. Happen but for, us
the fans are obviously a very critical point and a
critical piece of the music. Ecosystem but we want to
make sure our award is a peer to peer. Award
in order to be a, member you have to be
a professional music. Person you have to be working in
the industry full, time you have to have, credits you

(23:57):
have to prove that this is your profession where you
derive your, income and at that point you have the
ability to. Vote if we were to open up the,
fans then it would turn more into a popularity, contest
and there's great awards shows that do. That there's other
shows that are based on charts or journalists pick the
winners or fans pick the. Winners for us at The Grammy,
organization we love the fact that this is an award given

(24:18):
by your. Peers to, me it's the most respectful award
BECAUSE i know WHEN i make. Music of, COURSE i
want fans that like. IT i want it to be
on the radio on, streamers BUT i also want other
writers to, say oh my, gosh did you hear What harvey?
Did or do you hear what that team? Did what
a great, song what a great.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
Record, yeah it makes sense to have experts doing the.
Work when it comes to, voting and those experts are
always taking a pulse on the, fans you, know because,
That i'm sure is a big part of what sways their.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Votes right, well as long as they are truly experts
and relevant music, people then part of their job and
their profession is to make sure they understand audiences and
consumers and what works and what. Doesn't SO i think
that's inherently part of how they, vote because they have
that sensitivity and that touch to the audience and to.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
Consumers what are some of the things that you look
forward to most in The grammys every?

Speaker 1 (25:06):
YEAR i look forward to being in the, room to be,
honest because there's just such an energy and there's so
many people that come together fifteen or thirteen, thousand whatever
the number is people in that room that are all music,
lovers and they're all music. People and so looking to
my left and seeing, somebody oh my, GOSH i haven't
seen you in, years OR i love your, music Where

(25:26):
i've never met you before and what you do inspires,
me and being able to have that interaction is SOMETHING
i really. LOVE i also love the fact that there's
a community of people all celebrating music for a three
hour period of. Time you, know we all have so
many things in our, lives different distractions or different, interests
maybe not. Distractions this is a time where you, sit
you enjoy music at its highest form with the, excellent

(25:49):
excellent talent, performances, singers, songwriters and you'll see different artists
standing up and singing and dancing in the aisles to
music that you wouldn't. Expect see some of your favorite
singers who might be in one genre rapping along to
another type of, music or a rocker, singing you, know
along with a jazz. Singer to, me that is, exciting
and that's what makes our music community so special because

(26:10):
we are people who love the art From we know
the power of, music and we have a respect and
a love for each. Other and that night is kind
of the manifestation of all.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
THAT i think what's so amazing about music that you
really see at The, grammys by what you were just,
explaining is music has a power to bring people together
in such a magical.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Way and was it last.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
Year at the twenty twenty Five grammys That Chapel roan
performed and she Performed Pink Pony Club.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
PONY i mean to see everybody stand everybody who's, like,
yeah oh my, gosh.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Like and that's just such a perfect example of what
you were just, explaining where everybody stood up and you,
know was singing along to that song and it was
such a beautiful thing to, see and not only to see,
that but also to see them supporting a new. Artist
AND i think that's the coolest thing about The grammys
is you guys bring, in you, know the people That
i've been in the industry for a, while but then

(27:01):
you bring in those.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Newcomers, yeah it's.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
A good mix of legends and icons and superstars of
today and then the next generation that's coming. Up and,
YEAH i loved that. Moment and there's been a lot
of moments like that where you're surprised when you see
somebody that you would never expect singing along to one
of the songs just standing up and shouting at the
top of their. Lungs it's a big. Moment there's a
lot of great things that happen at The, Grammys, so
but that's one of my. Favorites do you.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
Like the fashion at The? Grammys, like do you like
seeing what people roll up?

Speaker 1 (27:26):
IN i, do as long AS i don't wear like
really big hats because a lot of the times the
fashion includes these crazy head you, know, ornaments and they're sitting.
Down you're, like why is that person wearing a? HAT
i can't see the.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Stage, OKAY i could see. That, yeah, okay, guys if
you were going to The grammys this, year no huge,
hats no huge. Ugs great, fashion.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
You, know show your style and your. Shoes that's WHAT i.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Think, okay, yeah these shoes are, Great.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Harvey for our, Listeners harvey is wearing Pink, nikes And
i'm a big.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Fan are you what kind of running shoes do you?

Speaker 3 (27:55):
Use so right, Now i've been wearing new. BALANCES i
literally been wearing these like clunking. Balances do you like?

Speaker 2 (28:01):
THEM i.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
Do they're comfortable with the ten, eighties very. Comfy BUT
i need really, comfy supportive shoes right now for.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
My ren especially now going, forward you're going to be
carrying a couple extra.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
LB's oh, yeah we already.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
Are we already.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Are But i've been a Huge nike girl.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Forever good me.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Too WHEN i started the, SHOW i was, like only Wearing. Nikes,
Really i'm sure they love. THAT i, Mean nike is
just the coolest brand that's What lebron, wears, Right.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Lebron wears it. All my favorite we wore At arizona for,
years and that was definitely the BRAND i grew up.
Wearing but the sad thing, is you, know everybody wears
Air force ones, now AND i remember when they first
came out in nineteen eighty three and my dad bought
me a. Pair they were ninety nine dollars and they
were just the best basketball. Shoes they weren't a fashion. Thing.
NOW i Wear force ones with like clothes and with,

(28:49):
suits but those were my basketball shoes and they were
the first shoes to have air in the, soul AND
i thought that was so.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
Cool that's crazy to me that those were basketball, shoes.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
That's all they. Were, wow basketball. Shoes now they seem
like really clunky.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
To be basketball, shoes, Right AND i feel that the
basketball shoes now have like the higher.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Ankle, yeah some, do but a lot of basketball shoes
are going to low tops, now which is amazing to.
ME i always played at nine, Toops, OKAY i didn't know.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
That, Yeah nike has a real swagger to it and
it has for. Generations, okay both speaking About nike And
lebron and. BASKETBALL i know a part of your career
or twenty years, AGO i guess, right you produced a
documentary For Lebron. JAMES i know most of your career
has been in the music, industry but what was it
like producing a film For?

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Lebron it was, amazing and getting a chance to be
Around lebron and his team and get to know him
a bit was definitely a life memory and experience THAT
i take with. Me he's a, special special. Guy obviously
we know his athletic accomplishments and his, longevity but he
also is just very generous and thoughtful and does so

(29:56):
many other great things beyond just play. Basketball but the
fun making it movie definitely a fun, challenge and it
led me to some other great.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Opportunities how did that opportunity come to Be it's kind of.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
A long, story but my babysitter of my kids at
the time had a friend who was a film student and,
said you, know would you meet with my. FRIEND i
had just finished a movie Called dreamgirls and we did
the music for, that and so they KNEW i was
in the music or the film, industry and SO i
met with this young man who had been following Around
lebron with a camera through high school and wanted to
make a movie about, it and SO i, said, man

(30:29):
this is. Incredible of, course with my basketball background and
then some film, EXPERIENCE i, said let's do. It let's
make a. Movie and we went around to some studios
and they, said, oh it's kind of a cool. Idea you,
know this is two thousand and, six So lebron was
Not lebron. Yet he was in THE, nba but he
wasn't as famous as he is. Now so everyone wanted
to buy the, footage but no one wanted to make a.
Movie so this man's name Was Chris. Bellman he was

(30:51):
the young. Filmmaker So chris AND i partnered and made
a movie and then we took it to the film,
festivals and then at that point everybody wanted. It so
it was a fun kind of full circle.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
Moment did you guys get to collab With lebron during
the making of that?

Speaker 1 (31:04):
Movie we, did And chris Knew lebron in high school
and they you, know he HAD i think two hundred
and fifty hours Of lebron footage that he had brought
to the. Table and then ONCE i got, involved we
reached back out To lebron and brought him in as
a partner as well in Spring, hill which was his
newly upstarted production company that, year was one of our
partners as.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Well, wow what was it like working With lebron? Directly,
like what did you learn from?

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Him you, know it was very disparate skill sets at
that point BECAUSE i was focusing on making a. Movie
he was a, great incredible basketball. Player but as some
of the same philosophies and themes that we talked about,
earlier which was he was very. Professional he's very. Dedicated
he was passionate about everything he. Did he was interested

(31:47):
in all the. DETAILS i, think much like his basketball
he knows, everything is very cerebral as an, athlete and
he approached the film the same way and very. Dedicated
if we needed, something he asked for, something he was.
There and that's not always the case with whether they
are athletes or. Artists you, know there's so many things
going on and sometimes they can have a lot of.
Distractions BUT i found him to be incredibly, professional very,

(32:11):
generous and really dedicated to.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
EXCELLENCE i feel like that also dedicated to excellence is
a common threat among so many successful. People AND i
know we talked about this on the, run BUT i
do want to go back into what you learned from
working With Michael jackson And Whitney. Houston so let's start
With Michael. Jackson what did you guys work on together With?

Speaker 1 (32:28):
MICHAEL i worked on his last. Record it was Called,
invincible and we worked for about eighteen months and wrote,
songs produce, songs recorded. VOCALS i was working with another
producer Named Rodney, jerkins who was really the one that
was kind of overseeing the, project and just that experience
was unlike anything else in my. Life first of, all

(32:48):
BECAUSE i Loved Michael. Jackson you wouldn't know, this but my,
Career i've had a chance to work with all the
PEOPLE i grew up listening. To and it's kind of
a weird head trip for me to look back and
see all the people THAT i got to work. With
but the idea of working with them initially before it
happens was always, like oh my, GOD i can't believe
this is. Real but then when it, happened Somehow i'm

(33:10):
able to click into a different, mode which is very,
professional very, creative and, collaborative AND i step out of
that fan, space And i'm able to really be you,
Know i'm able to contribute to the process with a,
peer AND i was able to do that With. MICHAEL
i was able to do that With. Whitney even still

(33:30):
Now i'm, Like, wow that was pretty advanced for someone
at my age to be able to move into that
kind of a, relationship especially knowing how MUCH i Loved.
Michael but And i'm not trying to pat myself on
the back, Here i'm just trying to, say there was
a moment WHERE i realized the only WAY i was
going to be successful was to make sure THAT i
was bringing value to A Michael jackson, record because he's

(33:51):
one of the best to ever do, it and to
figure out what that looked like and how the relationship
could turn into more of a mutually beneficial relationship Where
i'm bring something the. Table SO i never approached any
of the work or the artists THAT i collaborated with,
as oh my, gosh this Is Whitney. Houston look how
incredible she, is or listen how beautiful she. SINGS i
always approached it from the perspective, Of, okay that was,

(34:13):
GREAT i love. That what if we tried This michael
can we try it this? Way or what about this
type of a song Or, whitney what if we did
this in the? Bridge and so there was a real
effort on my part AND i kind of came a
little bit naturally to make sure that we were just
collaborators and there wasn't this hierarchy of super, famous incredible

(34:34):
artists THAT i looked up to and grew up listening
to and young guy producing music for.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Them, well of, course and you.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Are they're here when they call you in to help
them produce. Music it's like they want you for your.
Expertise but there's still always is that twinge of, like
oh my, god Did Michael jackson's team really just contact
me to do this for? Them you? Know and it's
like even for me WHEN i get the opportunity to
go for a run with somebody like, You i'm, like
damn like Hard Mason juniors down to go for a

(35:01):
run with, Me like that is so?

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Cool you know WHAT i?

Speaker 3 (35:03):
Mean, Yeah but then of course it's like you approach
it as a peer and you're there to do your,
job but there still is that kind of wow factor
and that moment where you do get to pat yourself
on the back and Say i'm doing a good job. Here, so,
like what was it like getting that initial call to
work With?

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Michael it's exactly as you phrased. It it's a little
bit of the imposter. Syndrome you're, saying, well DO i
even know What i'm? Doing AM i good enough to be?

Speaker 3 (35:25):
There is?

Speaker 1 (35:25):
This you? Know is this going to? Work is he
going to see through the fact That i'm so impressed by?
Him but some, reason and it's inexplicable as to WHY
i was able to manage through, that BECAUSE i definitely
felt it AND i sensed it the same way that
you said you. Do but the more you work with,
artists and the more you work at your craft and

(35:46):
try and do the repetition's repetition and the work to get,
BETTER i think that starts to fade and you can
come into situations with confidence and with ideas and with
the ability to, communicate and all those things start to
break down those. Insecurities AND i was very fortunate to
be put in some positions athletically and in front of
huge stadiums and stands full of people and interviewers and press.

(36:10):
TOO i was able to face some of those doubts
and concerns and start to build a little bit of
confidence and a little bit of a skill set as
to how to deal with and manage some of my
own internal emotions and second guessing and get the job.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
Done when you're coming in for somebody Like whitney Or,
michael and they have kind of set sounds right, like
you know what they're used to, Doing they're known for
a certain thing they have that you, know a certain
expectation with how they perform and how they produce. Music
how do you come in as a producer and push
them to do certain things a little bit.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Differently, well, first it helps if you're a fan and
you understand what they've done and what their history. Is
and that's some of the challenge with working with newer
artists because you don't have that. Backstory you don't have the.
Context with artists Like michael or A whitney or Even
mariah that we talked, about you know the music they've,
made you know who their audience, is you know what
their tendencies. Are and AS i, said my job is

(37:06):
not to try and take them out of. That it's
to try and enhance or amplify all those special things
that makes them incredible and makes them who they. Are
so you have to be intelligent ABOUT i don't think
you can just walk into a situation, like, ah this
is kind of MUSIC i want to, make so you're
going to sing. It you have to really really adapt
and you have to do like when you're making, jingles
you have to make sure that the client is being

(37:27):
respected and the sound that you're giving them is the
sound that's going to work for them and their, audience.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
And the sound that you choose does make a huge.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
Difference it's like even when we're editing our intros for these,
videos it's like the sound can transform the.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
Visuals, yeah of course that's the power of. Music, yeah
the power of.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Music what is one thing That Michael jackson said to
you that has always stuck with.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
You he would always, SAY i want to do something
that's never been done, Before and he, said why would
we be doing what we already did accomplished things that
have already been. Accomplished that maybe not the most eloquent,
quote but that sentiment is something that's always stuck with
me is if everyone else is doing, it then let's
think of something better to do or something new to,

(38:15):
do so that was definitely something that rubbed off on,
me and in the, moment it was. Frustrating and it
was the same with my basketball, coach to be, honest
because there's a level of expectation from people like a
Lout olsen Or Michael, jackson or A Clive davis or
A Jimmy ivan some of the people that have been my.
Mentors the level of expectation sometimes is higher than you

(38:37):
have for. Yourself and in the, moment you're, like we're
doing such great, Work we're making such amazing, music these
are hit, records OR i just shot five hundred jump.
SHOTS i, mean there can't be. More and then when
somebody that is, inspirational like any of those, leaders challenges
you and raises that bar and you, realize, oh there is,
more and you can get out of the. Frustration you

(38:59):
get out of the loop of thinking you've accomplished everything
and you've done it the right, way and you see
how much improvement there is yet to be had and
how much more you can. Do that's, exciting and that's
something that he definitely brought to me as a, person
as a, human as a, father as someone who runs

(39:19):
a company or who makes.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Music it's amazing, too because you think about some of
these people like A Michael jackson or even you, know
a more recent example would be Like Taylor, swift and
you think that they got to the top of what
they're doing, right but those people probably still see it
as there's more for me to there's more for there's
more to be.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Done, ABSOLUTELY i can promise. You i've not worked With
taylor on, music But i've worked with her on Our
grammy shows and other. Events she is obviously who she
is and where she, is but she's always continually trying
to do, more trying to do, better trying to reach
for the next. Level AND i don't profess to know
or can't predict to know what's in her mind and

(39:59):
what her, processes but from my, PERSPECTIVE i can tell
you that she's extremely hard. Working and it's a common
theme between her and some of the other artists THAT
i have made music. With it doesn't matter what they've.
Accomplished they're not looking back at all their. Accomplishments they're
not looking at how much money they've, made or how
many chart number ones they, have are even how Many
grammys they. Have they're looking at what is. Next what

(40:19):
AM i going to do? Next how AM i going
to change the game or do something that's fresh and
new and challenging for me as an artist and for my.
AUDIENCE i feel.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Like that's the hardest thing about being a ten yared. Artist.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
GUYS i don't know If i'm saying it, right but
somebody that's been in the industry for so long is
that constant feeling of having to push yourself to go
harder and do more and you, know make the next
thing bigger than the. Last, LIKE i can't even imagine
the pressure That Taylor swift probably experiences And Michael jackson
and these people experienced on a day to day basis
with like wanting to push. Themselves it's almost easier to

(40:52):
be a new, artist it, Is.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
And a new artist is you, know you're finding your,
Voice you're trying to define who you, are who your audience.
Is but that, PRESSURE i believe is what makes some
of those artists great and special because that's what inspires
them to come up with something new and, different to
iterate on what they've already. Done and it's not dissimilar
to an athlete Like lebron Or Michael jordan they've done,
everything they've won, everything they've at the top of the,

(41:15):
mountain but how do they keep going in the gym
and practicing and getting? Better And michael Or Michael jordan's
trainer had a quote That i'm going to probably botch
a little, bit but they, said you should be so
lucky as to feel pressure because that means you're in
a position where it. Matters AND i feel the same
way about creators and artists and. Musicians that is, also

(41:37):
by the, way we haven't touched on. It that's going
to be how we address or compete WITH ai is
because we're going to always be able to push. Ourselves
we're always going to be challenging. Ourselves we're always going
to try and find what's. Next AND i believe in
human creativity in that, Sense we're always going to be
able to compete because we'll always reach for that next line,

(42:00):
level that next.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
Bar for up and coming artists out, there what do
they need to be thinking.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
About you got to think about who you. Are you
got to think about who your audience, Is what is your?
Story what are you trying to? Tell because it has
to be. Authentic there's so many, artists so many people making.
Music there's so many, people you, know, creating even now
WITH ai, creating you're going to have to set yourself.
Apart so what makes you? Special what do you stand?
For what do you mean when you? Sing is it?

(42:34):
Real authenticity and emotion and connecting with an audience is
going to be what sets you. Apart so make sure
you know who you, are make sure you have a
true story to. TELL i meet with a lot of
people think, WELL i don't know what kind of MUSIC
i want to. Make, Okay, well then you're not ready
OR i don't know WHO i am as an, artist
you're not. Ready you have to have a perspective and

(42:54):
you have to know your sound and know the audience
you're trying to.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
Reach SO i have a specific artist on my. Mind
that was one of my favorite artists growing. UP i
love her and her music was just, iconic and she's
performed at the Super bowl before she did it well.
Pregnant so are there is there a certain artist you
would love to see start creating music again that's maybe
taken like a little.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Pause, WELL i.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
Know the artists you're thinking. Of she's definitely one of
my favorites as, well AND i would love to hear
new music from, her BUT i don't. Know there's so
many incredible, Artists and what's interesting about the industry right
now is there's even more artists than there's ever. Been
there's more people making, music there's more people using the
technology that's available to them to create cool. Things so to,
me it's a really prolific time in. Music some people, say,

(43:42):
oh it is the industry? Up is it? Down do
we like where we're? Headed there's so much opportunity and
there's so much accessibility for people who have creativity or
an idea or who want to make. Things there's more
opportunity for them to do that now than there's ever.
Been and for, me as a, listeners consumer or fan of,
MUSIC i think that's kind of.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Cool and what you're referring to is USING ai to
our advantage when it comes to maybe making music and
being within the music industry right, Well i'm.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Referring to all the technological. Advancements being able to use
a laptop instead of have to go to a multimillion dollar,
studio to be able to use a drum machine instead
of having to hire a. Drummer there's all these different
things that you can do that now enable more people
to make. Music, YES ai is one of the newest
tools AND i think potentially one of the most powerful

(44:33):
tools that have ever been created around generating. Art but
it's not dissimilar to other advancements or disruptions we've had
in our. Industry it is going to give more people
a chance to make, music it's going to give more
people a chance to listen to. Music there'll be some,
challenges there'll be some issues with, it AND i don't
think we are at a place where we're all comfortable with.

(44:55):
IT i Know i'm certainly. Not but at the end
of the, day my hope is that the really, talent,
amazing prolific creators that we have in our business are
coming into our business are going to figure out how
to use it in a way that's new and unique
and create, amazing, wonderful powerful art that can affect people and. Resonate.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
YEAH i think like we alw whatever the industry may,
be and specifically with, music like we have to be
able to adapt to the technologies that are at our
fingertips because.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
They're not going. Anywhere so it's either you adapt or
you get left.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
Behind AND i liked the example that you OR i
liked something that you just, said and you, KNOW i
kind of want to bring it back to your, dad
because your dad was a, drummer, right and there was
something within his career that was pivotal when the drumming
machine came, out, Right.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
So can you tell us that.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Story, yeah he was a drummer AND i remember very
specifically him bringing a drum machine home and telling me
and my Sister heather that he was going to learn
how to program this drum machine because he saw it
as the future and he didn't want to be. Obsolete
and so he became a great drum program where it
ended up using a drum machine as one of the
first recorded performances of a drum, machine which is, Weird,

(45:59):
like you're a, drummer why would you put yourself out
of work by programming a drum? Machine with my dad
the foresight and the thought of making sure he protected
his future to invest in the technology and learn and technology.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
And, compete and did that help?

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Him, yeah it definitely helped. Him extended his career and
gave him another, element diversified the things that he could,
do gave him another chance for people to call him, say,
OH i don't really want a live, drummer BUT i
want somebody who can program drums, really really. Well AND
i think as a, drummer he probably learned how to
program drums and drum machines better than somebody who had
never played the.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
Instrument and that translates to, now because a lot of
people are writing songs WITH ai and a lot of
people are anti.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
It but you've been for, it.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
Right you're, LIKE i don't mind AN ai song being
submitted for a nominee if it deserves.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
One, RIGHT i won't.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
Say i'm for it or against. IT i realize that
as a reality of our. Industry at The, academy we
will ACCEPT ai. Submissions it won't disqualify. You but we're
not going to award AN ai singer for a performance.
Category we're not going to award AN ai written song
for a songwriting. Category BUT i acknowledge that it's a
very powerful. Tool BUT i, also in the same, breath
have to say there are so many rules and guide

(47:09):
rails that need to be established to protect human creators
from a credit, standpoint from a remuneration, standpoint from the,
approvals all the different things that need to go into.
Place some of that stuff is happening, now Which i'm pleased.
About BUT i am going to say THAT ai is
absolutely going to be a part of our. Industry we
have to figure it. Out artists and producers and writers

(47:30):
are using it every. Day we can't pretend like they're.
Not and how that's going to end up and where
that's going to lead. US i WISH i had the
answer to, that BUT i will tell you that creators are.
Resilient human creators are supremely talented and resilient are going
to find ways to make. Music doesn't matter how MANY

(47:51):
ai songs are made or how many artists are. Created
we as humans and as, humanity we will express ourselves
through art and through music like no one else. Can
we'll use the, Tools we'll probably figure out how to
DEPLOY ai in a way that helps us tell our.
Stories BUT i have no fear that human creativity is
not going to continue to be the ultimate form of.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
ART i actually just Interviewed Jamie, simonov who's the founder
Of Ring, dormel and he was sitting right where you.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
Were last. Week saw him On Shark.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
Tank oh, yeah which time when he was A judger when.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
He first time didn't get a deal when he got kicked, Talk,
yeah come, on give this guy a.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Deal it turned into a big. Company their.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
Loss, Well jamie simmonof his perspective ON, ai And i'm
not going to try To i'm going to butcher. It
i'm just going to kind of paraphrase along the lines
of what he, said which the episode comes out On,
Monday so when you guys are listening to, this you
can always go listen to The Jamie simmonoff podcasts and
hear exactly what he. Said but he, said you, KNOW
i think this the era OF ai is actually going

(48:50):
to reward the. Gritty so the people that are able
to work harder and work smarter and just get grittier
with their work and what they do and figure out
what to obviously INCORPORATE ai, into you.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
Know helping them with.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
Work but basically he, said it's gonna it's gonna make
people have to be.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Grittier it, is and.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
It's gonna have to make people be. Better and he.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
Said that way better THAN i just. Did.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
Guys, sorry, NO i love, it and but it really makes. Sense, grittier,
yes for, sure work, harder, absolutely but it's going to
level the playing field for a lot of people that
and it's going to bring people up to a certain
threshold of output or creativity or ability to make. Things
so not only, grit but also talent and. Creativity and continuing,

(49:37):
again another common theme here to raise the bar beyond
where you can get was just using technology in as simplest.
Form so those that can utilize their, creativity, utilize you,
know some deeper passion or human experience and inject that
into the, music that will be the difference.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
Maker so your, Dad Harvey, senior he was a dr
and a, musician still.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
Is still is still.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Going he's just played a concert tonight In. Tokyo In.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Tokyo that's so. Cool have you and your dad ever
collaborated on work?

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Together, yeah we produced a record together AND i remember
the year maybe ninety, six ninety. Seven it was nominated
for A grammy, actually and then we just recently did
another new record that we produced with some of his incredible,
friends all the legend jazz musicians and a few of my.
Friends so, yeah that'll come out hopefully next.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
Year that's really. Cool what's it like working with your?

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Dad it's great And he's somebody That i've always looked up,
To i've learned so much. From he is definitely someone
who represented hard, work, sacrifice and striving for excellence early
in my, life and he did it in ANYTHING i.
Did he always taught. Me he, SAID i don't care
what you. Do you can do any job you. Want
you can be a, dentist you can be a, journalist

(50:51):
you can be a basketball, player you can be a.
Musician but whatever you, choose let's make sure you're doing
it to the very best of your, ability that you're
utilizing your, talent that you're perfecting what you want to.
Do and SO i learned that from, him And i'm
so appreciative THAT i grew up in that kind of an.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
Environment and to be able to have somebody like that
that kind of serves as your north.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Star, yeah is pretty helpful when you're in this. Industry
great north.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Star what's the best piece of advice your dad gave
you when you were entering the industry at a young
age that you think is important for all young creators
within the music industry to.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Hear we talked a lot, about you, know creativity and
how to be a songwriter and how to tell your
stories and obviously the hard work and sacrifice that it would,
take and making sure you were working and working at your.
Craft let's, see my dad practiced drums all the. Time
he had rubber pads he'd play, on he had a
drum set he would play on all the, time and
he was one of the best in the world at

(51:45):
that time and still. Practicing he was lebron in the
gym late night shooting jump shots after he's already broken
the scoring. Record SO i learned that from my. Dad
but the one thing he told me is make sure you're.
Prepared make sure That he always had confidence THAT i
would be successful and probably work offense aid. Eyhead he,
said you're you're going to break. In people are gonna
start loving your, songs and make sure you're prepared. Professionally

(52:06):
make sure your catalog is, prepared make sure you have enough,
songs make sure you have enough hard work and hours
put in so that when you have your moment that
you can take advantage of it and make the most of.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
It. Well Harvey Mason, junior you are THE ceo of
The Recording. Academy you were a d one baller at
The university Of. Arizona you're a legendary songwriter and. Producer

(52:36):
you've seemingly done it. All what's next.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Next is more, service more giving back to the music,
community more, hopeful you, know positivity in the. WORLD i
want to try and make sure That i'm spending my
time on the planet making a. Difference and that sounds
probably a little bit corny or, altruistic But i've done
a lot of cool. Things i'm very. Thankful i'm honored
to A i've met with people THAT i met and

(53:02):
worked with the people That i've worked, with AND i
take a lot of pride now and making sure That
i'm trying to make a difference and bring a lot
of love and positivity and energy into the world with
WHAT i. Do AND i find that serving music people
in the music community amplifies. That BECAUSE i can write
a few, SONGS i can help a few. People but
when you extend the reach of The Grammy organization and

(53:24):
all the work we do Through Music cares and through
our advocacy and our education and the, museum all the
different things that we, do that idea or that appetite
to serve and do good gets multiplied by all the
different musicians and creators and people that we, reach and
that gets multiplied by all the people that consume and
listen to that, music and that gets multiplied by all

(53:45):
the people that see that music on THE tv. Show
so for, ME i see next being a time of,
uplifting bringing people, together bringing positivity through music and through
art and. Serving HOWEVER i can.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
And really quickly on the topic of Music cares BECAUSE
i don't know if it's going to make it into our,
run AND i do want to touch on it because
it's a big part Of grammy's, week, Right And Mariah
carey this year is being honored and recognized.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
The person of The, Year Mariah Carrey person of The.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
Year And Mariah carey is somebody that you have worked
closely with as a songwriter and a. Producer so what
is it like seeing one of your, own you, know
one of the people that you've collaborated, with be nominated
for an award like.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
This it's really, cool but it's also hard BECAUSE i
want all the people THAT i collaborate with to be.
HONORED i want them all the Win. GRAMMYS i have
friends That i've worked with and THAT i continue to
work with that, win and that's exciting and we get
to celebrate. Together and they always call me, like, oh
this is so cool and thank You, harvey as it wasn't,
me it was the. Voters but there's also people that
call me That i'm friends, with LIKE i didn't get
nominated this, year and that's so heartbreaking BECAUSE i know

(54:47):
the time and the pain and the effort that goes
into making music and making, art and so when somebody
That i've worked with isn't honored or isn't, RECOGNIZED i
understand how that can be difficult for, them AND i
share in that. Pain but From, Ryan i'm very. Pleased
i'm very. Proud i'm happy for. Her she's so deserving
AND i really look forward to having a big night for.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
Her when did you guys work.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
TOGETHER i don't remember the, Year probably eight ten years.
Ago it's been a. While she's. Amazing what a. Voice
can you think of any other singers that have created
the songs that she has or has the voice that she.
Has there's a few That i've had the opportunity to work,

(55:29):
with but she's definitely one of the most special.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
Ones, yeah she's a special, person AND i mean it's
cool to even Her christmas song that people want to
hear every single, year come.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
On, legendary, legendary that Is.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Christmas, yeah that is that song Is. Christmas that song
is played it every single. BAR i mean every time
it would come. ON i remember when we were in.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
COLLEGE i went to school in the. City people would
just go.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
Crazy another song that unifies people that you would never
expect to be dancing, too like a pop song like.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
That you, know it just makes me mad BECAUSE i
WISH i wrote that. Song, yeah there's a lot of
songs like that where you hear it and then you
hear it Again you're, like, DANG i should have written that.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
Song what are some songs that you wrote though That you're, like,
DAMN i wrote that.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
SONG i would never brag about my songs like. THAT
i have been fortunate to create some cool songs and
hopefully people like. THEM i really enjoy going to. Concerts
and this sounds, creepy BUT i went to a concert
recently for an artist that we produced a lot of songs,
for and they just kept playing our songs AND i was, Like,
wow that really takes me back and gives me a

(56:28):
really good feeling of the time when we wrote, it
AND i remember recording it and to hear it played
in front of fifty thousand. People it's one of my favorite.
Things and maybe that sounds, egotistical but it really to.
Me it means that people love that song and it
meant something to, them AND i like that moment of
hearing him.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
BACK i, mean it must be such a surreal.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
Feeling AND i feel, like you, know we talked About Taylor,
swift but one of my favorite things to see in
the documentaries that she puts out about herself are seeing
the moments of her and her team in the studio
recording songs and kind of crafting, them and then to
have it switched to her performing it in front of.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
One hundred thousand.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
People, yeah it's just it's amazing how music connects, people
and you.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
Think like the music comes out of, nowhere right when
you go into the. STUDIO i was in the studio last.
Night we had. Nothing we had no, music no lyrics nor,
melody and then by the time we, left we had a.
Song and then to think about that song coming out
on the radio or on a, streamer and then people
listening to it and, saying oh my, GOSH i love
this song and dancing and saying, dude that is a
magical experience to be able to do.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
That is it a magical experience in the studio when
you guys get the song, down like are you like that's?

Speaker 1 (57:33):
It? Oh, yeah we're jumping, around we're super, hyped, like
oh my, god that's, it or even one, line so
we will say a line like, ah it's, crazy and
that will lead to another crazy line of that. Too
that's a fun, process especially working with other, songwriters and
you've seen it in some of those documentaries where you're
bouncing ideas off each other and you're getting inspiration from each,
other and that iterative. Process somebody will say one thing

(57:54):
and be, like, yeah but what if we said that plus,
This and then it kind of just gets better and,
better and then by the end of the night you've
got a, song and i'd say ninety percent of the
time you're, like oh my, god that's the best song.
Ever and then you wake up the next day and
some smaller percentage of time it is a really great.
Song and then times you're, like, oh that was fun last.
Night it sounded great when we, left but now we

(58:14):
got a lot of work to do to fix.

Speaker 3 (58:16):
It, yeah you're, like some adjustments need to be. Made, yeah, Okay,
wait who is hosting The grammys this?

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Year Trevor.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
Noah Trevor noah back for year.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Six so two weeks from, now we've Got Trevor noah
back on the sticks as the host of The. Grammys
it may or may not be one of his last year's.
Hostings it will, Be it will, Be, okay it will
Be trevor's last. Year what are you super excited about
seeing what he brings to the table this year as a.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
Host, Well trevor's so. Special he's really. Unique And i'll tell,
you at least from my perspective. Why he's first of,
all so. FUNNY i, mean the guy cracks me, up
but he does it in a loving. Way he's never
making fun or at his humor's not at the expense
of anyone in the, audience WHICH i like and. Appreciate
but he's also extremely. Smart he's so well. Spoken he

(59:02):
reads the heck out of his TELEPRO i don't know
how he reads and delivers all these lines. Flawlessly but
WHAT i love most about him is he's a fan of.
Music and you can, see you can feel that when
he's hosting the, show he delivers a line you can feel,
like oh, man he's really looking forward to this next.
Performance he's not just. Reading and you watch him off
camera and he's one of the people dancing and singing
to the, performances and he brings that combination of professionalism

(59:25):
and excellence and humor and wit to the, stage but
also that feeling of this is a guy who's really
happy to be there just like the rest of.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
Us it's nice WHEN i, MEAN i feel like it
makes a great hoe somebody Like trevor when you're able
to have fun at the event you're hosting at and
not TAKE i mean it's a super serious thing to be.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Nominated it doesn't come off like, that but, yeah he does.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
It and that's, like you, know even when you go
into an, interview right for our people listening that are job,
hunting it's, LIKE i feel like the people that are
the best for the jobs are the ones that are
able to have their expertise, down nail that, interview and
then be able to have a good time while doing.
It And trevoroa definitely does.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
That he's so so incredibly he's a.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Unicorn, WELL i am so excited to see you two
weeks from. NOW i can't wait to see what you
show up. In do you have your? OUTFIT i.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
DO i have a couple. Outfits we have twenty three
events During grammy, weeks so there are a couple of,
tuxedos there's a couple, hoodies there's you, know it's a
wide variety of things THAT i go. To But i'm
less concerned about my. Outfits is in my wife's. Outfits oh,
yeah that's more of a. Concern she's, like, well what
do you think about? This and what about? This is
this appropriate for? That i'm trying to mix the dresses

(01:00:30):
to the different.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Appearances so, true the off's are for the.

Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
Girls, guys come, on it is although the, boys you
guys show up in some pretty great.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
OUTFITS i do have to.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Say, yeah there's a lot of amazing outfits That i'm jealous.
OF i don't THINK i can pull a lot of those.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
OFF i get.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
That, Well i'm excited to see what you and your
wife show up. In AND i know we didn't touch
on your wife enough in this, interview but she's also
in the music, industry so that is a whole conversation
for another.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Day, yeah next.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
Time But, harvey thank you so much for running with
me and sitting down to check.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Kay it was super. FUN i can't believe we actually
did an interview while running it's first ever thank, you thank.

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
You that's our conversation With Harvey Mason. JR i am
so grateful for you if you made it this far
in the. Episode thank you so much for tuning. In
From harvey's early days in the studio to competing at
A division one level in basketball to now leading the Recording.
Academy this episode really stuck with. Me it's such a

(01:01:29):
powerful reminder for us that discipline and creativity do not live.
Separately they grow. Together SO i just want to say thank.
You thank you for pressing play and for coming back
week after, week and for being a part of this
community that we are. Building we truly believe that we
are just getting started and this show would not exist without.
You our team does not take a single listen for.
Granted if this episode resonated with, you it would mean so.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
Much if you.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
Followed the show here wherever you are, listening share it
with a, friend and leave us a. Review your support
helps us continue to grow the. Show and bring conversations
that we can all learn from and grow from. Together
we have great episodes coming up and we are posting Every,
monday so please make sure you follow the show again
wherever you are, listening AND i cannot wait to see
you next week