BeBe Winans

Gospel/R&B giant BeBe Winans joins QLS to talk about his 40-plus-year career in music, film, and theater. BeBe details coming from one of the greatest and most voluminous musical families, and breaking off to build a duo with his sister CeCe Winans. The singer-songwriter also describes his friendships with Whitney Houston, Oprah Winfrey, Denzel Washington, and Jim Bakker and Tami Faye Bakker. This conversation has some memorable stories, powerful wisdom, and much more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hello, sir, Hello, I'm right, I am fair admitting and
that they say sometimes here okay, it's good. Hello everyone.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Yes, I'm like here, by the way, because my name
is harder to pronounce.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
What is it? What is the hard name? I want
to hear the hard name. Lie? I Lie is not hard.
If you know when you told now, I may have
it may have been hard if I had to read
it right. Yeah, we said lay up for the person.

(00:51):
We all decided to get media or reading class.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
You look amazing. I love that shirt.

Speaker 4 (00:56):
Thank you, Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Love
Supreme Duo style.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
I like this season.

Speaker 4 (01:03):
We're doing combinations of solos, duos, trios.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
A mere perfect combination.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yes we is this our first duo.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
It's been a while. We've been like a couple of times,
but it's been a while.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
We haven't done a duo yet. I got that. I
got that.

Speaker 4 (01:18):
So today special episode of Quest Loves Supreme. Today we
are welcoming a Grammy Award winning legendary singer, songwriter, author,
television producer, actor to say that he comes from a
musical dynasty that rivals no one else an influential musical
dynasty is really understating it. It can't be emphasized enough.

(01:41):
How powerful you know? I come from the hip hop generation. Yeah,
when we see the W we think of Wu Tang.
But there's a certain generation they think of a musical
dynasties with the letter w YEA one name that comes
to mind, and that our guest is part of that
music dynasty. Of course, in addition to his bloodline and

(02:03):
his siblings singing, his entire family singing. Our guest has
worked with so many greats today name him Stevie Wonder,
Eric Clapton, and he needed Baker, Detroit's own Anita Baker,
David Foster, and I definitely want to get into his
friendship and creativity with the one and only Whitney Houston.

(02:24):
And right now he has a new single father in
Heaven with saxophonist Gerald Albright. We are delighted to have
brother BB one and Zo on Quest Love Supreme.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
A thank you, sir. How you doing I'm doing? Or
should I say what up? Though both I will say too,
I'm doing great. I really am great. Great.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
Do you still reside in Detroit or where do you live?

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Now, No, I moved to Nashville, Tennessee, forty years ago,
and everybody years ago. You know when you can say
forty and you got a whole lot of years after that,
you're old. See, you know what, I didn't stay young.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
What you say, I would have said four decades ago.
I tried to compress it. You can say two scores
ago if you you know, if you're talking about rebuffs,
two scores ago.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah. Yeah, But so so I moved down here forty
years ago, and then the girls came tumbling after, which
is cc ang and Debbie, my three sisters. So all
of us lived here in Nashville and our families and so.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
So y'all are the y'all are the pioneers because all
of a sudden, everybody, I mean, we knew that the
country thing was happening, but when it came to the
black country and the black scene, like, Nashville's popping.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
So besides Jill, who else is in Nashville? You know
a lot of people have moved from the industry. That
you have Reese Witherspoon, you have Nicole Kipman. I'm hearing
now Beyonce's coming through this way.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Yeah, from s w V and Eddie George like they down.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
George and everything. So Nashville has changed tremendously. But when
even when I moved here, I mean, if you didn't
know Nashville, you would think country. But the reason why
I moved is because it was such a great haven
for writing. And you had to say music, not even country,
but music in general, gospel, instigrational, R and B. You

(04:29):
had it all here, the writers. So that's why I moved.
My family was angry at me when I moved, I
mean to the point where you can't do that. I
was like, whoa, whoa, I'm twenty six.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Was it about leaving Detroit or going to Nashville?

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Leaving Detroit? You know, my family very close knitted family,
and me being the baby boy, I had six older
brothers and so they thought they were my father's too,
and so, oh god, all that works out. First of all,
how many winings are there? Siblings?

Speaker 3 (05:06):
Thank you and mayor for asking this question.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
I can say that either way, there's a lot of them.
Or I can say ten. It was ten seven boys
straight my mom and dad had I'm not that boy,
and then three girls after me.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
Wow, Okay, I'm not even going to get into the
nephews and everything.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
So when you add it all up, you know, we
go to a certain city family reunions or nightmare every
other Thanksgiving. Oh god, the last one we had like
one hundred and eight people wait for Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving? How
do y'all even decide that you'll? Yeah, is this there's

(05:45):
a certain my baby's sister is the one that's actually
in charge, and so we rent five homes and not
only Thanksgiving, but week that whole week. So after Thanksgiving
is over, that week, you don't want to see no
more winings for a good two years. So it's Thanksgiving
the family reunion.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, you know how many winings are on record? Literally,
how many winings have recorded?

Speaker 2 (06:12):
Well you have you know when my when my brother
started off, it was the four brothers the wine. Then
you had me and Cec right, my brother Daniel, who
is the sole artist. You have my two sisters, Angie
and Debbie. And then after years down the road that
my mom and dad recorded. So they met. My mom

(06:33):
and dad met in a group called the Lemon Gospel Corps.
That's how they met. My father was an only child
and my mother only had one sister and so they
met and then a sister in law, VICKI recorded, so
within the family, tell you this. There's about forty five
Grammy Awards.

Speaker 3 (06:55):
It's a Jackson's wine in Battle.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Oh no, the wine is one. Oh okay, damn At
least in the pop world.

Speaker 4 (07:03):
Like you know, Silvers were allowed to exist, Like I
think to most people, the Winings are the only dynasty
that matters and gospel, even though I'm certain that there are.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Other Hawkins family, yes, and so yeah, we we and
we grew up together, we being me and the clarks
Us and the clarks sisters you know, same high school,
you know, fred Ham and all them, And so we've
always been a great, big family and understood it the
doors that they open, the doors that we opened with

(07:37):
for other people, for each other, and so you know,
we've always learned to celebrate each other, right, and and
everything that has happened for all of us.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
You know, I was going to say that it was
really important for me to have you on here because
you and your sister CC specifically were responsible for like
a paradigm shift in the Thompson household.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Oh it was Philadelphia.

Speaker 4 (08:06):
So you know, I've explained this on the show a
lot that there was kind of a period where like
I basically came home one day and there was a
new regime and my dad was like, we're all born again.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Wait, huh what happened? And this is all I know.

Speaker 4 (08:28):
Something happened in seventy nine, and I kind of feel
like the first domino that fell because my father was
in the music business as well, and the first domino
that fell was there was a moment where in Donna
Summer it explains this in her documentary where it was
like seventy eight seventy nine, and this is when she

(08:50):
was literally on top of the world in terms of
her career and all that stuff. But of course, you know,
there's an emptiness inside of her, and I believe she
might have been conto plating suicide or whatever, and whatever
the situation was, she had this revelation and she became
born again, and she shared the story on either the
seven hundred Club or the PTL Club.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
I believe it was the seven hundred Club. It's Pat Robinson.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
Because of terrestrial television and not having access to cable,
my dad would just leave the channel on either PTL
or seven hundred Club would just buy blocks.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Right, four hour blocks, five hour blocks on.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
Certain UHF stations, and my dad would just constantly keep
it running. And so around eighty one something really touched
my dad in the morning whatever, and he ordered something
you know, call this is one eight hundred number to
get your prayer package or whatever. And inside of that
prayer package thing was a forty five and the forty

(10:00):
five was.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Up, not exactly a cover of Joe Cocker and.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
Jennifer Warren's Love Lifts Up Where We Belong from Offers
and a Gentleman, but a gospel version of it.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Wow, And my dad played, remember that version, you are
wearing me out right, this bobus, this is.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Both of them a mirror, this is this is this Islaiah.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
So this will explain all the prince punishments and all
those things, because I didn't get the memo that we
are now born again and what that entails. Because before
in nineteen seventy nine, I would say my parents were
relatively hip. They were sixties revolutionaries. Yeah, you were Afros
and you know my mom. They had a sprawling record

(10:45):
collection of four thousand records.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
They were hip.

Speaker 4 (10:48):
And then something happened in nineteen eighty eighty one, they
became born again and this this.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Was happening, you know. And I think that when you
are like in the Revolution in the eary.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
Sixties and the hedonistic seventies, then the eighties were sort
of seen as an atonement period for some. And man,
when he got that forty five, he played it so much.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
That's the only song that was on there.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
It was a forty five.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
Or five, but it's what it's what made them stars.
And then so if anything, I think for a lot
of people, they came to your brothers first. No, from
my household, BB and CC were first.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, my house old BB and CC was first, right,
and then it was like, wait, there's more.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
So suddenly, maybe a year later, I'm hearing this no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no no song over and over again. I'm like they
got another song.

Speaker 4 (11:52):
It's like, no, there's then just between eighty one and
eighty seven, like Whining's only the entire clan.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
So I definitely got questions to ask. Let's go. I
don't know if to say thank you or I'm sorry?
Is that I too? You know what? Okay, So here's
the deal.

Speaker 4 (12:15):
Oh, because I'm twelve thirteen and this this happens with
every twelve and thirteen year old.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Like once your parents lay down the law, you see
it as punishment, you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (12:29):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, and so but look I say
this way, I joke now that even I'm starting now
to have fond memories of the pandemic, like ah, man,
it was fun like living in the farm, you know,
taking long walks, not having to work, like of course
in twenty twenty it was like, oh god, the world's
about the end. Like now I'm starting to have like

(12:53):
pandemic fond memories. So that said, when I now think
of like my tweens and how heavy the whinings were
inside of that family, all of your work, all of
their work, and all your simply like included, now I
can say, yeah, those were fond memories.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
I'm not traumatized.

Speaker 4 (13:16):
No, the traumatizing part was wanting to listen to rap
music secular music and trying to sneak it in the
house and getting busted.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
But oh yeah, oh yeah, and so the thing is
so but I'm tickled. I could laugh for the rest
of this interview. I understand. So you have to understand
being raised in the household, I was raised in. My
father laid down the law there would be no other
type of music in my household except gospel music. Detroit.

(13:49):
Though Detroit, I'm saying Motown where I hurt. Where one
street ahead Santa Barbara to the left, Smokey Robinson Lyve.
We used to rush to his house to shovel snow
because Smokey would give you like twenty five dollars instead
of you know, and three blocks behind us on Santa
Maria lived Stevie Wonder. Not only was it Motown, four

(14:12):
more blocks down the street, the four Tops. So we
had all this great, great, great music, and we could
not listen to it in the house. So sometimes, you know,
we would take a song from that era and then
we would switch to words and my father to know, ye, what.

Speaker 4 (14:34):
Last light is like the light or something exact. What
was your what was your first musical Well? Wow, okay,
now right, what was your first musical memory in life?

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Well? You know so so growing up seriously in the
household I grew up in music was always a part
of my life, whether that was in church or at school,
school choir. So it was always a love of my
whole entire family. Not knowing it would be our career.

(15:07):
But my father and mother saw the passion for music,
and so they sacrificed. You know, my father was a
barber by trade. He worked in the car manufactory and
everything else between there, you know, because he had to
support ten kids.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
Wait, can I see something? Were they part of what
we would call the great migration from down south where
blacks were escaping down south to go to the north of.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
My great grandfather. Yes, from Mississippi.

Speaker 4 (15:39):
Okay, so they came to Detroit to fine industry and yeah, okay, I'm.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Had definitely born and raised in Detroit, and so we
you know, my father sacrifice bought us a piano, and
none of us went to school and learn how to
play piano. It was self talk, but we had a passion.
So they really poured into us. So we sung all
the time, you know, not knowing it would be our

(16:04):
career yet and still we learned so much. And my
father used to tell us, before you are international, you
gotta be regional, I mean national, Before you're national, you
got to be regional before your regional got to be local.
And so we were taught to be faithful with our talent.

(16:28):
So you know, whether it's three people in audience. We
sung like it was two thousand, you know, and gave
it our all. And then doors started opening here, doors
started opening there. My music me and CC was totally
different from my brothers because of my fourth grade teacher,

(16:48):
Miss bids, I'll never forget this because it shifted me.
I always wanted to write more so, always been more
passionate of writing than singing, And so in the fourth
grade he said to the students, I have a poem
I'm gonna read to you, And that was really the
time to go to sleep. But she read the Wind,

(17:09):
and when she read it, it captivated me. He said,
why does the wind so want to be here in
my little room with me? When he's all the world
to blow about? And just because he keeps him out,
he cannot wait a moment? Still be frets upon my
window ceiling sometimes brings a noisy rain to help him
better at the pain. Upon my door, he comes and knocks,
and he rattles and rattles at the locks. He lifts

(17:31):
the latch and stirs the key and waits a moment. Previously,
tell me, why does the wind so want to be
here in my little room with me? And I was like,
thank you Jesus. WHOA wow? That was profound. You okay,
it was profound. So when I wrote songs like love
said not so, I wanted to write it in a
way that caused people to think, you know, and so

(17:56):
doing that it separated me and Cecy from my brothers.
And Ceci and I wasn't a duet until we went
down to PTL and joined the Ptail Singers, and Jim
Baker came in the room and said, I heard a
song on the radio from officer and a gentleman, and
I want, you know, change a couple of words and
I want you Bb and cc y'all sing it together.

Speaker 4 (18:19):
Jim Baker, It was that instantaneous how we became a duet.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
How does one.

Speaker 4 (18:29):
Start a gospel business where suddenly you're now making a
living off it?

Speaker 2 (18:36):
Like, how does this start in your household? Well, my father,
you know, our biggest fan, and he felt as if
you know what, you guys are talented, talented enough to record.
So he put his money into recording the first forty
five for my brothers. As that continue, that door opened

(19:00):
another door in that door, and before you know it,
my brothers met Andre Crouch and the Disciples who were
our heroes, and he signed them and the first to
Light Records or Records? Yes, where was Light located in
San Angeles? Gee? I thought it was a Detroit label, Okay.

(19:21):
And the first single that Ray released in nineteen eighty
was question he is No No No, No no No.

Speaker 4 (19:29):
And I came in backwards. But so that that first
album did start the dynasty.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
So me and CC at the it was a the
question is was out first? And then CC released that
first single for PTL. Uh Lord left us up when
we belonged, and so we were on different tracks, probably

(19:55):
a year or so in between the release of their
song and the release of our song on PTL Records.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
I'm still in shocked at Jim Baker's ear, my mind,
his ear, don't hear y'all, but he did he did. Yeah,
I'm I'm a shock.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Of that, So you have to understand. So me and
CC we had before we came to PTL, we had
a group and the Whinings Part two, and in that
group was another brother, Danielle. At the time, Vicky was
married to Marvin and then another friend and so after
a couple of years, she said, I remember us looking

(20:35):
at each other saying do you feel what I feel?
And she was like, I think so. So we had
to go back home to Detroit and tell the rest
of our group this group no longer exists. Y'all gotta
go back and get all easy to do that? That
was so difficult.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
Did people walk away upset?

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Oh? Yes? My father was angry because you know, my
father was like, we got to stick together. And I said, Daddy,
we are.

Speaker 4 (21:02):
But me and CC, well, first of all, okay, are
you the C C respectively consecutive and age? This's the
first girl. I'm the basic, the eldest girl. You're the
youngest boy. Okay, how do you guys even pair up?

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Like? Were you two just that close in age? So Ronald,
my brother who passed away twenty years ago. Now he
put me, my brother Daniel, my brother Michael together with CC.
We were the Christian version of Gladdest Knight in the
pips Okay Elementary school and they were in high school,

(21:42):
Mumford High which had a lot of great talent in
that high school. And for their talent show, he made
us go sing at that talent show. So we had
that group and then as time would have it, Michael
would leave our group and go to their group, and
they became the Whinings, and so it was just it

(22:06):
kept evolving. Jim and Tammy that brought us together and
caused us to be a duet. PJL was was at
North Carolina, Charlotte Charlotte, North Carolina. It was the place
if you wanted to be exposed on Christian television. It
was PTL. It was much bigger than TBN and CBN

(22:29):
and all those other places. So I met all those people,
me and CC because everybody came through PTL, even Hollywood.
You know, if an actor became a Christian, he came
through PTL. It was the place to go.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
And they were racially welcoming to everyone too well.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Jim and Tammy was, but at the time would go on.
You know, I would learn a lot how they were
attacked because of me and Ceci. They broke ground in
having these colored children. Whoh that was that was controversial. Yeah,
that's what I'm saying. Death threats, death threat and he

(23:14):
hid us from those. So so I would jump over
to you know, I have a book, and I have
out of the book is the musical that I wrote
called Born for This which looks like now twenty five spring,
it will hit Broadway. But one of the things that
that I did, I went and set with Jim, who

(23:35):
are still friends to this day, because they became like
our parents, they really did, and they protected me at
Cecy and so I was sitting with him and I
told him, I said, Jim, you know, me and my
co author, we took some you know, lead and said
there was you know, some threats. And Jim looked at
me and said, be there was many threats. I was
like what he said, people would call up stead they

(23:57):
were coming up to shoot us and kill us. And
how could they have these black kids on the show,
and this and that? Oh it was. It was unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
The hatred these beautiful chocolate babies too, like what.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Oh they was angry. And then after we received we
did that duet. I mean you thought you were tired
of listening to the quest, We were tired of singing
that song. It was every day.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
How long did it consume you before, like you eventually
had more songs in your canon that you could you know.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, I mean we sang that song seriously every day
for maybe every day, twice or three times a day.
For two years straight. And so because of that, we
were asked to come out and sing various other places.
And so that's when I had to say, CC, we
gotta we got to create some duets and so taking

(24:57):
songs that Amy Grant sang, taking so that this one
saying and made them do X and would go do
that and so and that's when we realized, you know what,
I think we're supposed to be a duet, you know,
and went and had that talk with the family.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
How did the kind of fallout of eighty seven affect you?
And what pivot did you had to make once the
PTL empire kind of came crumbling down.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
I don't is it over now or is there's there's
other people in that space. So when we decided to leave,
it was years before that happened because CC was getting
married moving back to Detroit, and I thought, hey, we
came together, we're gonna leave together. So it was the
hardest meeting we had and Tammy cried. It was we

(25:53):
went to their home for dinner and they cried and
we both cried. And then Jim said to us, he said,
you guys are going to be huge stars, And we
started laughing. He said, I'm not I'm not playing. You're
going to be stars, you know, and you know talked
about and we're sorry for you to let you go,

(26:13):
but we understand, right, So we went back home to
Detroit and then we got a call saying a year
or so later, Jim and Tabby want you to come
back and you can have the freedom you need because
we have recorded and things started moving in our in
our career as a duet, and you can have all

(26:34):
the time you need. But they just want you to
come back, and we agreed to it, and then then
all of a sudden, get a phone call said Jim
said no, and no explanation. So it was like, this
is confusing. I mean we were you didn't know what
was happening. I know what has happened. And so when
everything tumbled and everything came out, we realized that he

(26:58):
was protecting us. He did not want us to come
back and be caught up in the store or anything
that was happening. So he was still loving on us,
still protecting us as he did when we were there
the whole time. I ran into a car as I
was cleaning different drawers in my home and there was

(27:19):
a card from Tammy Faye Baker that she wrote to
my son bb whinings sore, Mom's going to miss you,
and so it was. It was. It was very moving,
but they saw what was going to happen in our
lives before we saw.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
Did you ever watch the biopic that?

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yes, did you feel like it was it was depicted fairly?
Or I thought some things were predicted fairly. You know,
Tammy Faye was one of the sweetest persons you ever
want to meet. I mean, when she passed away, it
was a very hard thing for us. And Jim has
always been a supporter, right they were dear to us. Okay,

(28:09):
to this day, Jim, I don't agree with everything he says,
but you know, that's life. At the same time, when
I opened the musical Born for this the regional run
in Atlanta, Jim came to that. So I had Jim
on my right side and I had my mom on
my other side. There's a scene, there's a scene in

(28:33):
it where I was dating one of the singers and
actually Tammy, and this was the racism that existed. Tammy
was upset as well as others because she was a
tall blonde and she said, you can't date BB because
it's not right, and so we ignored it and they

(28:56):
fired her. So while this scene has gone on, Jim
leaned in and said, I didn't know that happened. I'm
so sorry, I said, Jim, that was thirty years ago.
You even got this.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Wow, it's so interesting, the subtle racism of things still
right and yet she still loved you. But that's that's
what that's seven white folks, I guess exactly.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
But you're talking about something that's embedded and.

Speaker 4 (29:23):
Yeah, you know when you're obviously not going back to PTL.
Was there ever a trepidation of fear, of like what now?

Speaker 2 (29:32):
What what do I do? You know what? Never fear.
I was always a big dreamer and some people, so
my father used to say, there's a thin line between
confident and conceited. And some people may think you're conceited,
but what you're going to be is very confident and

(29:53):
believe in what you have. Right. So I believed that
that CC and I would accomplish fish things that was
even beyond our dreams, and so I went for it.
So I went to Nashville, you know, with a friend,
and took's meetings and then brought Cci and everybody was
saying no. One person said I don't even hear talent.

(30:15):
I was like, whoa, I mean, wait what that's what
the record company said. And I looked at him and I said, okay,
you mean you don't hear none. That was confusing to me. Okay,
but that's what he said. And then we kept going.
So I never ever thought this is not going to happen.

(30:40):
Never thought that, never, And so the last record company,
which was Sparrow Records, said yes. And that started the
serious step and shift in my sister's career and the writing. Again,
we knew traditional church is not going to like this,

(31:04):
and they were angry, but that was no fear because
every song I wrote, I had my mom listen to it,
and if my mom gave me the thun up, I
was good. I was looking. So that was the That
was the path and never stop.

Speaker 4 (31:23):
How are you even aware of what's out there if
it's not allowed in the house?

Speaker 2 (31:28):
And did you guys follow the rules or.

Speaker 4 (31:32):
Also like Richard Pryor's status, where you had to like
sneak and listen to it, But MA mean, when.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
You walked up the house, there's no way you couldn't Detroit, Michigan.
There's no way you couldn't hear or Tops and Stevie
Wonder and all these other people. So no and good
music always caught my ear. So my favorite singer in
the world was Donnie Hathaway. Oh if you wanted to

(31:58):
make me smile, say, man, you you you sound like
a little a little bit like Donny, what can I buy? You?
Got it to me? He was the greatest singer of
all times. He really was. So there were there were vocalists,
there was writers that I kind of gravitated to. And

(32:22):
when I wrote a song, I wanted the song to
be kind of like distant, you know, uh, you know,
it was just my imagination, right, so it was like
oh yeah, yeah, yeah, and and and so that was
those were my heroes. Those were the kind of songs
that I was, I was uh gravitated to. So when

(32:43):
I sat down and started writing stuff like I'm Lost
with You said, don't have vocal move mid mid temple
and and lyric was the most important that I said
something that would cause people to be uplifted and to

(33:07):
give life another try. Now here's the thing.

Speaker 4 (33:10):
When I first heard and that's a good example, like
if I'm lost without you.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
I mean, obviously, you know. There was a period.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
Where I remember second grade, somebody either she in a valerie,
like someone in my school wanted to sing you Light
up my life, and my music teacher had to say, like,
you know, that's a gospel song, right, They're like, no,
it's you know, like we we had no idea that

(33:38):
you the light of my life, was singing about God
or whatever. Some point I always wondered if using especially
in an example if I'm lost without you, would sometimes
would you sort of ambiguously blur the lines of the pronoun,
because we often think in the gospel world that be
you and sometimes works in the second world, like.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
I think love too, love right, and I think in.

Speaker 4 (34:04):
The second world, like Philip Billy once told me, like
it was some earth wind and fire song. Thing was
like I had enough, and I'm thinking like, oh, Philip
Bill is singing about I'm s so tired of being
on the road and I'm coming home to you, babe,
And he was like, no, I'm singing about I'm coming
home to.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
God or whatever.

Speaker 4 (34:23):
As a songwriter, you know, would you say that you
could catch more fish if your songs are spiritual but
you don't know where it falls.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
And so what I always say and truthfully say that
that is I wish I was that smart, and I
wish I was thinking that way. I always this is,
this is my reality. I felt like I had the
authorization to tell the world what God meant to me

(34:59):
in every ho aspect of my life, in my love life,
in my friendship life, in my family life, and my
public life, in my private every area of my life.
I felt like I had the authority to write about.
So Lost Without You was definitely all about me saying, Lord,
if you leave me, I'm totally lost. I am really

(35:21):
totally lost. Now let's jump into the song. Down the Road.
Me and Ceci are in Chicago doing a concert. It
was a one of those musical amphitheaters, and not knowing
the night before, Janet Jackson was in Chicago in concert.

(35:42):
She saw our names and the next thing I know,
I'm sitting there because Fred Hammon was on The Shame
Show and I'm listening to Fred Hammond and somebody said,
excuse me, mister Winings, you have to come to your room.
It's like, no, I'm I'm watching you know, Fred, No, No,
you have to I'm watching Fred mister Wayne is Jenny
Jackson is on the way to your room like Janet,

(36:05):
if you're nasty, Jenny, I love that you reference. And
so we go back to the room, cec it myself
and up drives this four car convey and Janey gets
out and comes to the room and the first thing
she wants to ask is tell me about Loss Without you.

(36:28):
It's my favorite song. We are you talking about? Really? Yes?
I never Agreezy, And so that was one of those
moments that I realized people interpret our songs the way
they hear it, and that was okay with me. You know,
I always feel and always felt then and now where

(36:50):
there are people, whether it's in the club, where it's
on the street, in the church in a different venue
where there's people, there's ministry, and so I'm always excited
when my song goes beyond the four walls.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
Wait, Can I ask you both a question? Because oftentimes
on this show, I would think that something is created
and new, but maybe sometimes I'm wrong. So I don't
want to assume this. But for me and my generation,
you were that person who blurred the line. And yes,
you initially maybe you didn't think you were talking about God.
But then when you realized you were talking about God,
then it was like, oh this is even better. I'm good,
you know. So why did it feel so special? Was

(37:31):
there anybody else for who really could grasp that? Like
fine line? Who is I mean?

Speaker 2 (37:37):
So you had again, you had the Hawkins family, so
Edward and you know when he did Old Happy Day,
that thing went cross.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
You know, but he still said Jesus Christ though.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yes, but it went to the pop charte wait, I
got you, okay. You know, music has a way even
before the lyric of how it's produced and the rhythm
of it, that will cross the lines. And so you
take that rhythm that we were taught, you take also
the message, which is important. And I remember after every

(38:14):
after every album we recorded, I would sit it on
the dresser and I would say, you know, lord, I
did my part. Can't wait to see what you're going
to do with it. And so they get a phone
call from someone in another country saying I was on
the dance floor dancing to Addictive Love and it was
my song and and then I realized, oh wow, oh

(38:37):
that's a Christmas song And it changed their lives. And
so I'm always excited when things like that happen.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
But bbe did you hear what you just said? Like,
I'm just saying, y'all know that our grandmothers was like,
don't you be dancing to that gospel music?

Speaker 2 (38:57):
But to me, when I read in the Old test
when David dance out of his clothes because of what
God had did, So you know I was free. When
I went to PTL to Charlotte, North Carolina, I knew
there was something happening inside of me that brought down
the walls man made rooms, and I really found out

(39:22):
more for personally who God was. So you have to understand.
My first movie was ET, and I remember sitting. I
had to go see it twice because the first time
I saw it, I couldn't even I couldn't even enjoy
it because I heard thunder you got die, I got it,

(39:45):
got it for you?

Speaker 4 (39:52):
Was there ever longing to like? In making the first
album in eighty four? Was it some up by design
that to not make it too funky, not make it
too slow, asked to not turn off the.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Older gospel authority.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
Whereas come eighty seven, you guys are like, hey, here's breakbeats,
here's a drum machine. I'm gonna make it sound like
today's music, Like were you ever caught in the controversy
of don't make the sound too No?

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Never, never, And so the answer to the question is
just so it takes me back back to pt. L.
So Howard mcquarie was the musical director and he's that
called knew my brothers and asked if we could come audition.
So he has a meeting and the last minute, Jim

(40:51):
Baker called another meeting, and Howard comes to me and said,
b you gotta do me a favorite. You've got to
go in and meet with this guy. His name is
Keith Thomas's from Nashville. He's coming up to meet with me.
But I can't meet him because the thing. And I
looked at Howard and said, I'm not going to meet
somebody who's coming to me. I mean that makes no sense.
I would disappoint him as well. And so said phoebe

(41:11):
just just going and meet him, not knowing because that
I was going to meet the person that I would
collaborate my whole career with. So when he started playing
on the piano, it did something inside of me. It
was like it was like meeting you know your spouse.

(41:33):
It was like wow, I mean I fell in love
with his courts. So before the meeting was over, I
told him, I don't you know, let's let's swap numbers
because I'm gonna come to Nashville and I'm gonna sit
with you and there you have it. So it wasn't
a thing of being worried about what people were going
to say or how to navigate the craziness between traditional

(41:59):
and contemporary. I just found my partner and we just
started creating, and so I you know, I owe you me.

Speaker 4 (42:09):
It was like, yeah, I was gonna say, I owe
you me. Was like, that was the first one, right.
Keith Thomas to our listeners, don't know. He has so
many numbers on the board. He's probably going the best
for I think he wrote save.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
The best for last last.

Speaker 4 (42:24):
Vanessa Williams did he have something to do with.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Thomas what he did Amy Grant Baby, Baby Baby, Yeah,
yeah he did. So. Keith was not being utilized much
at all in the Christian world until he produced Me
and CC and then people started finding out. But understand
after the first album, Me and Cecy were now signed

(42:54):
to Capitol Records, and so we went up to California,
had the meeting with the CEO and all these big executives,
and then the COO said, okay, you know you guys
are going to work with different producers and me and
sitting there and I said, no, no, we already have
our producer, Keith Thomas. He said, oh, you know you're
big time now, you're in the big league, so you

(43:15):
got to work with big producers. And so long story short,
I realized, oh, y'are not asking us, y'all telling them.
And so I looked at him, happy to be on
Capitol Records, and I told him, but if we can't
use our producer, then I will grab my sister's hand
and we will walk out and y'all have a good day.

(43:38):
And he said, what, well, you would leave Capital Records
And I looked at him and I meant this. I said,
don't get it wrong, glad to be here, but you
do not hold my future. God holds my future. So
we will walk out of here. And that man said, well,
I guess keep producing. I didn't know he was white,

(44:00):
They didn't know anything about him, but he brought us
to the party. We have this meeting is because of
Keith Thomas and the collaboratory chemistry that he and I had.
And so I'm glad I did it because because of that,
you have the slew of things that me and I

(44:21):
says to a company.

Speaker 4 (44:23):
So on that first album, yeah, you pretty much are
utilizing your siblings as auxiliary voices.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (44:33):
Is that obligatory if you wanted to work with another
group of background singers with your family, feel some sort
of way like do you know we were always now?

Speaker 2 (44:48):
The only thing about us using each other is that
we were free. Yeah, I was gonna say, and how
does that work? Three? Why not? Why would I pay CC?
Why would CC pay me? That made no sense? So
if you wanted to you and that was just how
we were, well, not.

Speaker 3 (45:06):
CC, but everybody else. So I mean, did you got
some other folks in the backgrounds too?

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Right? Oh? Family, that'd be and various other people. So
if we used other people, which we did, you know,
you have to pay fees and so whenever we wanted to,
you know, if the budget ran out, Hey, Marvin, how
you doing this day? I need y'all to set up
a record, is that to come and help us? And
to this day, you know I turned sixty, I can't

(45:33):
believe it. It's two years now, I'll be sixty two.
And so when I had I always wanted my sixtieth
birthday in London. So I decided the last minute to
hear of a concert in London. So I called my
brother and I said, Hey, you're gonna come to London
for me? He said, I guess I'm not getting paid.
I said, why would we start paying each other? Now?

Speaker 4 (45:56):
Forgive my ignorance and asking this because I still feel
like I'm relatively well adept in my Whining's allergy. Has
there ever been a collective.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
Twenty three hundred Jackson Street.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
Yeah, a collective Whining's album project? No, No, I only
had we. We did two Wining Family tours, international and
national tours, and we had the most fun. It was
absolutely incredible. But after we came off of those tours,

(46:36):
I don't never have to see another one a kid.
And this is the reason. So as the youngest, right boy,
are you the agitator? No? No, I'm the one that
does the work. And so I'm creative in the place

(46:56):
of and I enjoy it in putting this song with
this song, and this and that and that, and so
I'm creating the whole thing, given permission to do it,
and then at the last minute the older brothers wanted
to come in and say, I ain't doing that song. Yes,
you are so back and forth, and you told me
to put this together, but I didn't tell you that song.
Well you singing that song. I mean up until ladies

(47:18):
and gentlemen, please welcome. Who is the alpha whining? Who
is Dad? When Dad is not there? Well, Marvin thinks
he's there. Dad was alive. He used to tell my mother,
I'm your father. I'm not lying. You call him up

(47:42):
and he'll say the same thing. So but he was
and still he was the songwriter of the Whinings, and
we all you know, used to always say he's the
greatest singer in the Winings family. At the same time,
he is not the one that does the footwork, you know, right,

(48:05):
And so I'm that one. And then you know, you
always meet Okay, he is that big brother and little brother,
you know, right.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
But BB, you got like nephews and nieces and stuff.
Now I'm curious if there's a baby Bebe coming up
up in the family, who now is like, well, Bbe,
Remember you used to be that person. But now I
know my finger is on the pulse and.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
I I wish we had that. Now. We do have
great writers. H CC's Sun is really a great writer,
Alvin Jr. And producer. He's produced some things on her album.
But and in One is one who right, So we
have some great writers. But these days it's hard. I

(48:50):
don't know if it's just this generation. I don't want
to do no work. They just want to walk in
and just hey, no, it don't work like that. Here's
the thing though, and I hear what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
This spendor defend the people.

Speaker 4 (49:07):
I kind of believe that everything that we've been generationally
taught our parents, our grandparents, our great grandparents and so
on and so forth.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
I now believe that we might have.

Speaker 4 (49:23):
To let maybe eighty percent of everything we were ever taught.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
Whoa what a lot?

Speaker 2 (49:29):
I know.

Speaker 4 (49:30):
But here's the thing though, and the number one thing
that I'm trying to get rid of, even for a
person that doesn't know me, I have this James Brown
reput you know, hardest working man.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
And that's really my fault.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
It's my fault, like, oh, you're doing movies one day,
you're doing records the next day.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
You write a book this day.

Speaker 4 (49:50):
Because I was kind of raised in that environment that.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
Like work hard, work hard.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Yeah, work hard, work hard.

Speaker 4 (49:59):
And then the pandemic came and the first time in
my life, and I don't know if you've had this
same experience for the first time in life. For eight months,
I did nothing, you know that feeling as a workaholic.
If I'm even asleep past ten thirty a m. I
feel like the worst person. I hear my grandmom, my

(50:21):
dad like that sort of thing. So to do that
for eight months in a row, where you just you
don't do nothing, and I'm the world's most overachievingest overworker.
After six months, I was like, wait a minute, let
me find out. The key to life is not whatever

(50:42):
we complain about the younger generation. Right, No, So I'll
say I'm now sixty forty, where I now agree with
the younger generation.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
Smarter, now harder.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
But my approach is this. My answer to that is this,
This is my philosophy. Okay, two plus two will always
equal four. Now how you get there? It's you know,
in this year, twenty years ago and forty years down

(51:13):
the road, two plus two will always equal four. So
unless you're Terrence Howard, but I won't even start that. Look,
I want to get involved in come forward. Plus multiplication
is always going to go forward. So no, I've always

(51:35):
believed that I didn't have to follow the path that
my father followed to be successful. I didn't have to
follow my brother's pattern to be successful. So but you
do have to have a dream. You do have to
have the understanding that you have to work towards that dream.

(51:59):
Like I would have liked this, and I'll end it
like this. A friend of mine, a friend named Wren Brown.
He said, Christians don't want a miracle, they want magic.
They want to say, oh I want this house. Damn
that house is there, he said, because a miracle has

(52:20):
to have your participation, and so a lot of times
this generation don't want to participate in what's there. They
just want to sit around and wait for magic. Dude.

Speaker 4 (52:36):
No, wow, Okay, now you made me feel bad because
here's the thing though, I know that well because again
because I'm I'm literally taking an active exercise to see. Okay,

(52:56):
miracle versus magic, and you you praised the perfect with miracles.
You have to be actively involved and expert in your field.
You know what you're doing with magic. You do nothing
and it happens. So here's the thing, though, I'm right
now the place in my life where between the Christian

(53:19):
side of me versus the metaphysical side of me.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
And you know, a lot of.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
This also has to do with me studying my African ancestry.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
To say, you are like Christian, you better stop well,
but dude, like at some point.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
You have to start somewhere well and understanding. Look my
father said, and maybe I answered this way. My father
used to tell us, y'are not the greatest things in
the world. Don't you sit around and think you're the
greatest thing in the world. But you're going to be confident.
You're going to be the most confident singers in the world. Okay,
So that's what he said. When I was younger, I

(53:59):
had to perfect my vocal ability. Like I have a son,
he was sixteen or seventeen eighteen at the time, and
he said, Dad, we're gonna do a duet together. I said,
you and me, Yeah, we have no no, no, no,
we not you not waking up today and all of
a sudden you do it with me. And the reason

(54:24):
is not that it has nothing to do with my
love towards you. It has nothing to do with your desire,
even if you have a desire. Yeah, you can't sing?
Oh wow? What time out?

Speaker 4 (54:40):
Time out? Time out, time out? Are you trying to
tell me that somewhere on this earth there's a as
the last name of Whinings.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
There are men to know how to sing? There are many?

Speaker 3 (54:56):
Really, what is that?

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Like my brother, oldest brother, David, he can't sing to
save his life in our ears. That has to be psychological.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
I refuse nobody else in his ear.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
He thinks he can. So when we went out on
those two runs of the Windings Family or he was
with us, but the sound people knew. Don't turn his
mic on monitors or nothing. You're horrible.

Speaker 4 (55:34):
To close my statement only because the the period of
me finding out by my African ancestry and the and
the pandemic forced me in a place where the most
that ever happened in my life out of nowhere happened
because I sat.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Around and just stayed silent.

Speaker 4 (55:59):
Yes, and then it happened, of which the conflict of
me is like, well, are you going to dismiss forty
years of the insane amount of hours that you studied
your skill and your practice and all those things. My
dad had a rule in the house. Like you've heard
the idiom, practice makes perfect. My dad's idiom was perfect
practice makes perfect. He was Joe Jackson on steroids. So

(56:24):
the thing is, I can't dismiss the preparation and the
over preparation of having a skill makes you better.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
But I gotta admit that this generation might be on something.

Speaker 4 (56:38):
I'm only three years into this, and trust me as
an over worker who is on your side of the
fence with miracles versus magic, I decided to just backslide
a little bit from miracles and to see.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Just to see if the magic is in.

Speaker 4 (56:57):
If I do nothing, we'll match a curred Well well
but but but but let me answer that this way, because.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Faith is not magic. But faith is something you don't
see or you can earn truth. Okay, I agree, so,
but works is important to make faith come to existence.
All right. So I've always seen myself being what God

(57:29):
had prepared for me. I didn't see it, but I
believed it. So one of the things that I've always
taught my children and the upcoming artists and everything. You
have to see yourself as successful you have to see
yourself right now. You have to know your worth right now.
So again I always go back to my father. I

(57:50):
mean he really was, but he is to always say,
before my children leave my house, you're going to know
who you are. So when you go on to the
world and they tell you who you are, you won't
believe it because you already know it. You know. It's
this generation. What what I enjoy is that they have
a confidence that we didn't have back then, and they

(58:12):
have some of the tubes that we didn't have back then.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
Don't forget they got it on our backs.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Us two still.

Speaker 3 (58:19):
Yeah, and every reason that they have to rest today
is because of our work. Let's not forget that. Like, yes, baby,
you can rest today because we worked yesterday, because we
worked today before that.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
For the word of appreciation of that work.

Speaker 4 (58:38):
Look okay, So yes, gratitude is important, absolutely important.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
I mean because again, you know, some of my heroes
have passed away this year, and I've gone to their
celebrations because I had to be there to say thank you,
said it before they passed away, because they opened doors,
They did a lot of the knocking down of the
doors and everything, and so as CEC and I have

(59:03):
you know. I knew then this door that we're knocking
down is not just for us, but it's for the
Kirk Franklin, it's for the Mary Mayor's, it's for all
the other people that are following us. And they could
go through the door because they did the work. I'll say,

(59:24):
that's perfect, perfect. I remember we did. I used to
do all the and I still do something all the
music behind the scenes for Oprah Winfrey, right, And so
we did the Legends ball, and I was over the
music for the Legends Ball, and so Oprah decided at
the last minute to put this girl in the lineup.

(59:46):
And I called her and said, what are you doing?
This woman is not ready for she had a nice
she had a nice voice at an actually a wonderful voice.
She reminded you of Aretha Franklin and her presentation and
long story short, hey you got the last word. She
was in the lineup, but I knew was she ready ready?

(01:00:08):
And she wasn't ready, not because of the talent she
had inside of her. She she wasn't ready to stand
up in front of the people. Uretha Franklin night and
Barbara Streis saying and all these other people. She started,
she started taking like the titanict and at that moment,

(01:00:32):
at that moment, I can't say that I was very merciful.
You came in saved. So I saw Oprah get up
and she ran around to the stage where I was,
and she was and I wouldn't. I wouldn't, and it, Oh,
I'm telling you the truth, and she's truth. Oprah wanted

(01:00:54):
to talk to you. And I look at her waiting,
coming quickly because this woman is dying. This whole thing
is going going down. It's hard. And so I went
over and she said, you gotta do something, and I
looked at her. I said, uh, oh, you want me
to do something about the person that you put in
the program that I told you. Oh, I was enjoying
the moment.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
But it was beautiful. But it also but you know,
the friendship that you have with Oprah in that way
because she need that truth, She need that honestly, And
I'm sure yes, and that is I'm sure that's why
y'all been friends as long. Like, come on, girl, I
told you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
We saved the day because to legends, you had to
have legends. And that was the Hawkins family that tore
the place down.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
They went after her, after the young lady, they went
after her.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
No, no, no, no. That was the group that I had
lined up, and I had everything else and lined up.
You just stuck her in and it almost took the
whole thing down.

Speaker 4 (01:01:56):
To Oprah's credit. And you gotta you gotta remember that.
You know, Oprah came to national prominence as that woman
in the color Purple.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
We didn't know who Oprah Winfrey was.

Speaker 4 (01:02:10):
They could have easily given that role to someone of
Oscar caliber, you know whatever. You know, I can see that,
and I've seen a few times where Oprah might want
to highlight someone that's untested Trueton see if you're ready
for it, and this message, this.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
Event, But I repent again, Wyne. It's a testament to
your relationship with Lady Oh that has been led lasted
this long because at the level she's at, everybody don't
have that level of honesty with her. And so I
just think it's beautiful that y'all still have this relationship
and it works.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
I mean, our relationship goes back to the first six
months of her show. I was called and I wrote
a commercial for the show called I Found a friend
in Oprah. So our relationship goes way back. Always we
agree that I had the relationship. We had the relationship
where we would tell each other the truth no matter what.

(01:03:10):
I love that she has been a great friend and versa,
you know. But at the same time, no.

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
Ideas like you still better lie to me anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
I am that I'm friend.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Stop it. But in that, in that that is so funny.
But in that this is why, this is why she
wanted you tell the.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
Story this thirty years right here, BB.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Okay, But but I tell you the truth. One of
the things that I love more than anything is friendship.
And if you really have a friend, that friend is
going to tell you the truth, you know, especially in
this industry where you're surrounded by people who act like

(01:03:58):
and that's quest.

Speaker 4 (01:03:59):
Love supreme thinking no, no, no, but I was going to
say it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
So it also shows that I'm guessing that part of
the result of this friendship is our ability to see.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
In green leaf exactly. And so so the funny So
so that story is very simple. My niece who was
who is uh, loved acting ever since she was two
years old. She knew you, and so I got behind
her in her years and she was playing the part
of CC in my musical. And so I had a

(01:04:31):
table reading in New York that I had oprahcom and
various other people Sicily Tyson. And then after that I
get a call from Oprah about green Leaf. She sent
me the script and she asked me to read it.
And then she then she said, well, your niece, but
I know she's doing your play. I would love for
her to I said, girl, whatever you would love for

(01:04:53):
my niece to do, don't worry about my play. Fashion
was to act. And so she did work and and
she ended up on the show and excited. There's the
other things that are happening that me and my nieces
girl do a movie together, and she's going to play
my daughter in this movie. So I'm enjoying that moment.

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
That I love you, name my niece, my baby, my
niece girl.

Speaker 4 (01:05:21):
Speaking of Greenleaf, I became really good friends with a
Merrill on the ship. The other thing that I've I've
done that's different after the pandemic is making time for
fun and joy because people are like too serious, you
were too much, You don't take time out for yourself.
And so I've started like a series of game Nights.

(01:05:43):
And Merle is also a part of my word old group.
You know, we we played the New York Times World
and there's eight of us and you know it's fastary
of people are the actors, actresses, news people and literally
I'm keeping an eye on our scoreboard.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
And she.

Speaker 4 (01:06:04):
Meryl is an overchiever in gaming right now. So I'm
giving I'm giving a shout out tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
So if you play scrabble and you have feelings, don't
play with any of my family members. Wow. Oh we
come at you. Oh, we come at you with sarcasm.
You put a word up there that we're not familiar
with and we know it is not a word. Now
say that. Do you lose that? We start creating sentences
with that word and it it breaks your heart. So,

(01:06:33):
oh yeah, you don't want to not scrabble?

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
Is at a wine in this game night? Is there profanity?

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
No? And and and because it was just not in us,
we weren't raised. So I was just going to ask,
are you guys allowed to argue? Oh? Yeah, I mean
but if we said when we were coming up words,
shut up, that would just stir my mom and dad,
like don't you say so? But we have become very
good friends with Whitney, right, and she became like family.

(01:07:04):
And one day CC and I were over and she
was she was, you know, we're talking about the first major.
But she said, I got to ask you all a question.
It was like what she said, I've been wanting to
ask all this all the times. Okay, what she said,
y'all don't curse? Why don't y'all.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
What do y'all do? What do you put in the
place of them words?

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
It was so funny because it never dawned on us
that you're checking out every word there was.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Is she feeling like some type of way?

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
But every now and then and then she stopped doing
all together. And my answer was, Whitney, it's not in me.
It's just not in me. There's more vocabulary. You will
know how I feel by the words I say, but
they won't be loaded with words that maybe you're familiar

(01:08:01):
with and and and so it's important, I think, more
than than ever, that we teach our children how to
stand up, how to argue, how to get it. You know,
anger and hatred does not benefit anger and hatred. You know,

(01:08:22):
I can say some words to you because the scriptures
even tell us that let your words be filled with
honey and sweetness. You can kill them with honey and
sweetness more so than the same hatred that they use.
So I was and I've always been a fan of that.
So but that's for another two.

Speaker 4 (01:08:42):
Well, yeah, I wanted to ask you because well, one,
I wanted to know what compelled you to write a
book about Whitney, but just basically talk about the friendship
and the fact that I think since your second album,
she's basically she's basically the auxiliary Wine and his family member.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
Oh, incredible relationship and it just happened. It just happened.
There was nothing we did, nothing she did that caused
us just to be like that. And I just I
remember her saying, for the rest of my life, you
guys have to be in my life and no major,

(01:09:27):
no major choices I will make without sitting with you all,
And was.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Like, Okay, you know that last part was heavy.

Speaker 4 (01:09:36):
But is the bonding based on vocal skill or is
it just based on the fact that you guys grew up.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
There's elements there. But when I say our hearts just
was knitted because I understand she met my brothers before
she met me. In cc okay. I met her. I
met her because she was on tour opening for Jeffrey
Osbourne and she singing one of my brother's songs tomorrow
in her set. I remember her walking out from the

(01:10:06):
back and I said to her, I don't know what
church you came out of. I don't know your last name.
I mean, I don't know your middle name, but I
know you come from some church singing the way you sing.
And she smiled and said New Hope Baptist, and so
we laughed and just that moment, and so I can
go through the years. But one of the things that

(01:10:29):
always sticks out with her is I run every morning,
right Monday through Saturday, and I run my path and
asked her, I go buy this home. And every time
I see it, I smile, sometimes I cry. It's because
it was my first home and I saved the money.

(01:10:52):
And then because of race and various other risks that
they see in the color student, they decided you need
it seventy five percent to put on the house instead
of fifty, which was high from the get go. And
so just like any other time, Hey what's going on? Hey,
I think what was wrong? How about the house? Well, yeah,
they you know, threw a curve and she's like, what

(01:11:14):
it was like, don't worry, aboudy, no tell me, And
so I told her what was going on? Da da
d this thing I knew. Whitney flew in unannounced and
at that point, me and my wife, we stayed in
a one bedroom apartment. So she decided she going to
spend the night, slept on the couch and I remember
walking out. Now uh and she's Whitney Houston. He's Whitney Houston.

(01:11:36):
The number one song is I Want to Dance with Somebody. Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
She's sleeping on the couch and I'm trying to sneak
out of the door because you opened the door. The
sun hits the couch and so I'm sneaking out. The
sun hits and she wakes up. Her hair is going
every witch away and I started laughing and I said, boy,
if they can see you now to night. Ah. She said,

(01:12:04):
shut up, where where you going? I said, Whitney, I
just got to go on her air and I'll be
right back, okay, because we got to go see that house.
I was like, girls, shut up, and so I went
came back. We went to the house, going through this
house because every room Whitney would say, oh yeah, now
that that looks like my brother's veryl oh that's like
my brother's bathroom. Oh that looks like my brother's a

(01:12:27):
laundry room. It was like, what's wrong with you? And
so the last place we stepped on the porch and
she said, oh yeah, this looks like my brother's porch.
And then she hands me an envelope and I said
what is it? And she said, she opened you she'd
opened it up. I said, what, I opened it up,
and it is the fifty thousand dollars that I needed

(01:12:49):
to buy my home. Oh man, And she said I
told you this was my brother's house. And I was like,
oh man, Whitney, I mean I got to pay. She said,
don't you worry about Okay, let's go. So so when
I run by the house now, I paid her back right,
And she called me because I paid it to her

(01:13:10):
accountants and she said, they just called me. Tell me
you paid me. And I said, yeah, I told you
I was gonna pay you. She said a lot of
people say to pay me, but time and and I
you know, I sold the house years ago, but every

(01:13:33):
time I run by that house, I can't help but
think of her, oh man, help her, think of her
love of after of every experience that we had together,
which lives inside of me. And uh, she was just
she was family. One of the greatest, uh friendships I

(01:13:55):
can even imagine.

Speaker 3 (01:14:01):
So that must be the answer to a mere's question
of why the book, because were these stories just about
to explode inside of you?

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
Yeah? But the stories of what people didn't know, you know,
That's what I mean. The only thing, Yeah, the only
thing they talked about was the problem she had with
you and this and that, and it's just like that
is that is not her? Let me tell you about
the ninety five percent of her that y'all don't know.
And so I felt a need and it was therapy

(01:14:30):
for me, It really was, because that was a hard moment.
I got a call that night from her mom, and
when she called me, she said, I wanted you to
know what my daughter meant to you and what you
meant to my daughter. And I had to pull over
and like a down broken side of me and I

(01:14:54):
just wept because not only is the news hard enough,
but Sissy, you checking on me. I need to be
checking on you. But it was we were family. We
really were family and she is the best.

Speaker 3 (01:15:14):
Thank you for the book and continuing to tell these
stories everywhere, Like thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:15:21):
Let me ask because there's something I always wanted to know,
especially when it comes to celebrations, and you mentioned it
earlier and yeah, I watched whitney service when it was
on CNN. Oftentimes the world will lean on the anointed

(01:15:43):
gospel singers to really come through in one of the
most lowest, saddest moments in a person's journey, which is there.
I believe it's a transitioning, not a death, but it's
very sad for the people left behind. And Whitney's celebration

(01:16:03):
was one of those moments where a lot of joyful
noise gospel singing.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
Needed to be utilized to help celebrate her.

Speaker 4 (01:16:16):
But I know that it has to sting extra hard
where you yourself, even if you're in a mournful state
for someone that you knew, Like it's one thing if
you're just called, hey, can you sing at this funeral?

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
You know his brother passed away, and da da da
da da, But could you describe to me? Because I
wanted to know it was the most difficult thing you
could do.

Speaker 4 (01:16:41):
How did, how did you channel or pull into you
to step to the plate, and really.

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
Just didn't want to do it, didn't know what and
for me, not even for my sister, not for my brothers.
I'm not good at singing, at which I felt apart
at her so vibration before I started singing, even before
and after, because this person means a lot to me. Right,

(01:17:08):
So the only thing other than God's help that gave
me the stremp to do it is that I heard
what she would say. So when I got up that
morning and I started getting dressed, I started crying. And
then I remember sitting standing up and I could hear
her say, now, don't you mess up. And that's what

(01:17:33):
she would say while we were alive, you know each other.
So I used to say to her because she would
call sometimes say her voice was gone, and I would say, oh,
I wish I was there because I know now you're
gonna really sing, because you got to take different avenues
to do what you do. I remember in New York
when she's sung at Radio City Music Hall for Clive Davis.

(01:17:54):
It was something she had this burgundy dress on. She
was so hor and I was excited because I knew, Oh,
she's going, she's gonna really give it to y'all because
she has to. So I heard in my head, don't
you mess up. You better look good and you better now,

(01:18:16):
you know, because that's what she said in life, right,
And so that is what I leaned on, and I
focused in on those moments, not that moment. You know,
I had enough time to focus on that moment when
I sat down and could just you know, weep.

Speaker 4 (01:18:39):
I always wanted to ask you that question, like what
is it to reach to use your gift when you
might not necessarily be in the mind state to deliver,
but you know you have to not only deliver for
the church, but also you know the world's watching you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
Yeah, and understand not only deliver for them, but deliver
for me. So before my songs touch anyone else's heart,
it touches his mind because it comes from my heart.
It comes from my experience, It comes from the down times,
it comes from the victories and the defeats, And so

(01:19:21):
I sing what I believe. No matter what you know,
whether it's it'sysy spider kind of spout, it means a
different thing to me. Gotcha.

Speaker 4 (01:19:33):
Hey, speaking of crowds, and performing every night. Can you
talk about your experience and playing on harpo in the
Color Purple?

Speaker 3 (01:19:42):
My theater experience, Baby Lake.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
What's that like for you? Oh? That was a double ed'swore,
you know. So I got a phone call from a
guy named Scott that told me he wanted me to
come in and write some songs for a new music
that was going to happen called The Color Purple. So
I went in to New York and then I remember,

(01:20:06):
as time was going on, I called Oprah and said, hey,
they're making a musical and her words was that's stupid.

Speaker 3 (01:20:17):
Fast forward, best forward, best forward, forward.

Speaker 2 (01:20:20):
Not too fast. But as I fast forward and was
walking down the street, I picked up a mag You know,
this is when we had newspapers in the USA. The
day there was the announcement of Color Purple coming in
the Broadway, and my name was nowhere on the credits.
And the guy wouldn't call me back. I mean, broke

(01:20:40):
my little heart. But what you know what I'm saying,
and so hey, and then next thing I know, Oprah
is one of the producers and this and that. I
was like, oh, okay, well you know that's it's hilarious.
What that's a lot. And then then I get to
get a phone call. Opening night is about to happen,

(01:21:01):
and Oprah and Gail calls me and says, you got
to be at the opening. I said, I don't have
to do nothing of God and breathe, y'all know what happened.
I'm not coming. And then something in me said go
And I remember going hoping hear me right, hoping that

(01:21:23):
it was a mess.

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
You don't gonna tell us who was playing harpole at
the time? Are you?

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
It was like it was the hope I forgive the original? Yeah,
this is the original. I'm like, So I'm sitting there saying, ah,
that was a good song. Oh man, that was pretty good.

Speaker 4 (01:21:43):
Don't you hate giving in?

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
So at the end, I remember so I found Scott
and I went up to him and I said I
wanted just to tell you congratulations, sir, and he looked
like he said deer in hairlights and he was like, oh, thanks, Phoebe.
I said, you know, much success to you. So bounce back.

(01:22:11):
Two years later, for a year or so, I get
a phone call saying they want you to come in
and Gee will call me. Just just be out there.
They want you to be harpo. Mister was the position.
I said, girl, please, I ain't got time for that.
You don't remember I do, and so they'll say do

(01:22:34):
just for open, you know. I was like, y'all, you
know what, I'm gonna come in. And when I got there,
they switched it and wanted me to do Harpo. I
bumped into Shaka Khan. I was like, shak why are
you here? She said, well, I'm they asked me to
do Sophia because they asked. I said, that's not what
they asked. So this this tricks just going on, and

(01:22:56):
you know, tricks are for kids or grown ups. So
we did the thing and I didn't care if I
got the point the party. Now that evening, I got
a phone call from Scott and he said we loved you.
And before we get another thing out, I said, Scott,

(01:23:18):
why don't we start with you apologizing what happened two
years ago? Dang, you apologized, and right after you apologized,
I said, I'll do the part, but let's not sit
up here and act like.

Speaker 3 (01:23:35):
I love you. Be back. I love the truth or yeah,
two plus suit not equal four.

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
It, you know, come on, So I enjoyed it. I said,
this is probably gonna be my last time because I
did Broadway in nineteen eighty six on a show called
Don't Get God Started, and it's just hard work and
your life winds the line life is gone, you can't.

(01:24:03):
I remember walking down the street seeing, oh, the Queen
is coming to to to Radio City. I'm gonna go there,
and some saying no, you ain't. You're gonna be on stage.
You gotta work. Yeah, so time it was one. I
don't know if I did anything after that, but it
is something I'm excited to be on the other side

(01:24:25):
of and giving jobs to so many wonderful, talented people
that are out there. So but yeah, you know it was.
It was great. Thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:24:36):
I have two more questions than we could wrap up,
and I do have to know because pivots are a
big part of your story. What was the deciding factor
that you go solo after having sung with your sister
for so long? Like, how hard was the transition and

(01:24:57):
not being BB and CC wining?

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
Not hard at all.

Speaker 4 (01:25:03):
You're a BANDI ripper. Okay, you're not sentimental. I never
heard before.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
Let's go. Let's go and think that I'm gonna use
that No, because this was planned in my mind from
this first album. So from first album to the end,
there's always been a solo on the duet album for
CC and for me because I knew we were going

(01:25:34):
to do solos and so the record company would be
angry and I was like, no, no, no, Inside I knew,
and when that day happened, we had something to build.
Each of us had something to build upon.

Speaker 3 (01:25:48):
Look catalog and some songs you had already done solo, and.

Speaker 2 (01:25:52):
So when that day came, I said, CC, ladies, first,
I'm gonna go somewhere and rest my brain. Hmmm, do
other things because it would have been crazy for us
to try to do it at the same time because
we would be fighting for the same audience. So I
went away. For years, some people thought I had passed away.

(01:26:15):
We didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:26:16):
You tried your hand in acting because you're in the
Manturian Candidate, even though it's a cameo.

Speaker 2 (01:26:20):
Yes, I did that, not trying to. That was again
when when doors opened, I've learned to walk through. But
you know, Denzel directed my first video. It was this
directorial in Harm's Way. Vinzel did that and at the
end of the video didn't connected. Oh yeah, and doors,

(01:26:44):
I love interdience.

Speaker 3 (01:26:45):
I loved That's what that is, that's love.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
So so he directed that and at the end of
the thing, he said, I'm gonna tell you one thing.
I was like, oh, what did I do? What did
I do? And he said, you got some acting shops.
You should act? And I said, well, well, Denzel's telling
me I can act. I said, you ain't got to
even worry about coming out of this year because I
ain't gonna let it in this year. You a Dinzel

(01:27:10):
And he said, I'm just telling you. And ten years
down the road, I'm in mancheering candidate, not because of
Denzel but because of the director meeting me at a
birthday celebration and he says, you're gonna be in my
next movie. You know. It's like, okay, I guess you're
a director. And then here I am finding out this

(01:27:32):
man's name was Jonathan Demi. J oh my god, I
knew it. I knew it was Jonathan. So I'm at
this meeting with a friend and I picked up the
Variety of magazine and I was like, this is the
name of the movie that these people try to give me.
Here and he said, what's the guy's name? I said

(01:27:53):
Jonathan something. He said Jonathan Demi Bebey. I said, yeah,
that's that man's name. And so that's how that happened.
Having that experience, Jonathan calls me and says, you gotta
do more movies. It's like, what is wrong with y'all?

Speaker 3 (01:28:12):
So then what you ain't? What's that with that though?

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
So so hey, I just did my first TV series
premiere June the second called uh minor Business with Lumbus Short.
I didn't even know who he was. And then I
was from from a Scandal Pendo. Yes, the cast and

(01:28:36):
it bounced TV and it was the most previous in history.
They're history over two million households. You So I'm on that.
My name is Henry and that is doing well. And
so the fear, let's just say that, the fear of
stepping into that, you know, part of my my world

(01:29:00):
is starting to dissipate. And but you said something earlier
that that is important to me. If I'm not having fun,
I'm not going to do it. Yeah, you know, so
this new song, I'm having fun doing that again because
I have behind the scenes, so Father and Heaven right now,
I went overseas and four concerts in South Africa and

(01:29:25):
it just was it woke up the sleeping bear. Did
you miss it? I didn't miss it because I really
truly don't. I'm allergic to the word tour. I get
is what is the wordst thing about touring? Travel, travel
and dealing with children? And that's what I call the

(01:29:49):
band and everybody else they're children. You still have to
keep the children in line. You have to do, you know.
So that's the hard part. Way.

Speaker 4 (01:29:57):
And when you mean children, are you referring to musicians
you overplay?

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
Yeah? Yes, as if they came to see you, they.

Speaker 3 (01:30:07):
Still do that to you. Oh I did, they would
be disciplined enough.

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
Yeah, I am. I am the last Mohican. I'm world
famous for doing nothing. I'm world famous for doing nothing
because I was.

Speaker 4 (01:30:22):
Like, I am a metronome and that's that's how I
paid the bills.

Speaker 3 (01:30:33):
Wait, Amir, you will be mad if we don't ask
this question before we were in this interview, because listen,
two weeks ago, I was hosting A Q and A
at Capitol jazz Fest and Louis Bega was the man
on the stage. And every New Year, everybody wanted to
talk about BB and this this relationship that you had
with Louis Bega and this collaboration that you've been doing
for years. Can you just I would like you to

(01:30:54):
just tell me about your first meeting with Louis and
with the magic that was.

Speaker 2 (01:30:59):
It's to me, I forget how we met. He had
mixed the song thank You, and Luther was like a
brother to me, and so I helped him get Luther
to come on and do a thing on his seat
as well. But Luther did a lot of the background
for me and Cec. I mean, I can name you

(01:31:21):
five or six songs that Luka I love you answer
that question, Ben, I mean searching for Love? So searching
for Love, Yeah, the one found search in for God.

Speaker 3 (01:31:36):
He was the background vocal king.

Speaker 2 (01:31:38):
That's Luther, his arrangement and him and his singer. He's
a whole another I have to come back. So so
Louis Vega we did the song. The song started really
generating a lot in the house. In the house, and
so he calls me. I think this is where this

(01:31:59):
is when Louie and I became friends. He called me
and said, BB, can you please come and sing it
live at the shelter. Now I don't even know what
the shelter was. Wow, boy, yeah, I can't this story,
I said, Louis, yes, So I said yes because I
had no idea what was going on. Your team did it.

(01:32:21):
So my singers came with me, and when we got
to New York, Louis calls and said, hey, man, I'm excited,
so we'll pick you up like at four. Now when
I am chriss, I stumbled when I even talk about
it now years ago. So it was like one PM.

(01:32:41):
I said, you're gonna pick us up? Oh, in three hours? Okay,
we'll be ready. He said, no, no, no, people pick you
up at four am. I said, I said, whoa pick four?
You picking us up at four? What? What time?

Speaker 3 (01:32:56):
We go on.

Speaker 2 (01:33:00):
Forty five and five? I said, what what are you
talking about? What boy, how are you talking about?

Speaker 4 (01:33:08):
Say?

Speaker 2 (01:33:09):
I've never sung at four point thirty and what do
you talk? People are up quite seriously. It was like
I'm thrown when we went to that place. First of all,
we trying to stay up was the hardest thing in
my life. So he picks us up. We go to
the shelter. I've never seen so many people in my life,

(01:33:32):
and I'm like, are these vampires? And then we sang
the song. I'm telling you, I've seen audiences that is
waiting to hear their song. Yes, ever saw an audience

(01:33:53):
like this before. They knew every lick, every line, they
knew every pause, and they were celebrating like I never
saw people celebrate like this before. It blew my mind.
And so after that, Louis was like, Phoebe, you gotta
go with me. I said, no, no, no, be me
one and done. You're gonna give you? I said, because

(01:34:18):
I love you, I'm gonna give you three more. So
I remember I did one in Miami, I did one
in London. And then so he calls me. I said, Louis,
don't you call me. But when I say, I have
a love for him and his talent and and and
all of them, that's my brother.

Speaker 3 (01:34:37):
Those records and y'all have changed, like y'all have changed
in house and gospel at the second and now his
other records with the Clark Sisters and of Your Brothers
and now the Brell song the Joy Join. I'm like,
this is just the baby of like with y'all. You
know what?

Speaker 4 (01:34:52):
To me, it's only right, only because it's historically speaking.
I mean, you're from Detroit and the world doesn't know.
Like I know, the world thinks like Motown, there's great
jazz that comes out of Detroit, but the world really
doesn't know that the role that Detroit has played in

(01:35:14):
electronic music. And there's this whole you know, Chicago versus
Detroit thing. But to me, it makes all the sense
in the world that this pairing happened in the fact
that you did it in the second best nightclub in
world history. Of course, you know, to the Shelter will

(01:35:34):
even say that their modus operandi was sort of that
of what Paradise Garage represented in the early eighties. But
to me, gospel flavored house music is one of the
most spiritual experiences that one could watch it.

Speaker 3 (01:35:51):
So spirit yes, amir, it is in your buy. It
does something to your insides.

Speaker 4 (01:35:56):
Well, because you gotta make a joyful noise and you
also have to move, and the African people we move.

Speaker 2 (01:36:03):
And that's that's the thing. So I did the picnic
loyal call and say, uh, bbe it's not for me.
It's like who is it? Before you know, yeah, they
call him to get me. And I was like Louis
who you stop calling me? So I did the picnic
in Chicago.

Speaker 4 (01:36:24):
It was Oh, that's important, it's important. It's important, all
my stars.

Speaker 2 (01:36:31):
That it was unbelievable. I'm serious. When the when the
music start, it's just it goes through. There's such an
appreciation for their music that they have that I don't
think any other genre has.

Speaker 3 (01:36:49):
I think that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:36:50):
I learn that.

Speaker 4 (01:36:51):
I learned that I still maintain that gospel music belongs
in the clubs.

Speaker 2 (01:36:56):
I'm sorry everywhere I am. I believe it songs everywhere,
and I you know, so as a songwriter you learn
over the years. You learn if you've written something that's mediocre,
you've readen something like that, oh this so this song
now that's out the word scared is not the thing.

(01:37:16):
But I anticipate where it's going to go. I think
it has the legs to go everywhere that the other
songs that I've written that's crossed lines will do. And
so I'm excited about it makes sense that, yeah, and
so it makes so you know, I'm in a great space.

(01:37:37):
But again it's not just for me. I grow in
these spaces, but I know it's also for some that
are coming through this way as well. That's exemplary.

Speaker 4 (01:37:46):
Wait, I guess it's one important question I do have
to ask you, and this kind of ties into the
whole proud family thing.

Speaker 2 (01:37:54):
Is BB your birth name?

Speaker 3 (01:37:56):
Thank you me or thank you?

Speaker 2 (01:37:59):
So my given name is Benjamin, My CC's given name
is Priscilla. Wasn't for Jim Baker again Jim and Tammy
Fay Baker. So no one knew our nickname other than
the people you know in my household I'm a dad

(01:38:22):
and all them. And then people at my church they
called us BB and CC, but at school was Benjamin.
And so after some of the success, remember going back
to Mumford High for our ten year school reunion and
walked in and the people who only knew us by Benjamin,

(01:38:43):
they looked over and said, oh, hey, Phoebe. I was like, pep,
you don't know me as Pobe. So if you want
to stop me in my tracks, you call me Benjamin exactly,
stopping my.

Speaker 4 (01:38:59):
Even worse as fans call you Benjamin, and then you're
like no, right, Like some people will say to me, hey,
a mirror, and then my mind's like first grade, second grade,
third grade, fourth grade.

Speaker 2 (01:39:12):
They're like, man, I'm just depend I'm like, yeah, go
for that well, brother BB. I want to thank you
for this conversation. Uh just amazing. Thank you for spending
with like and myself, and thank.

Speaker 3 (01:39:28):
You Sarrid and Alita, thank you, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:39:30):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (01:39:31):
And I hope our listeners out there enjoyed this particular episode.

Speaker 2 (01:39:36):
I know I did.

Speaker 4 (01:39:37):
And on behalf of Sugar Steve and Pon Tigolo and
Unpaid Bill and like, yeah myself this Quest Love Supreme
and thank you once again and we'll see you on
in the next program.

Speaker 2 (01:39:50):
Thank you for listening West Love Supreme.

Speaker 5 (01:39:52):
This podcast is hosted by Amir Wes Love Thompson, Big
Boss Man, Like Saint Clair, Black Black Myself, Fontigelo, Fonte Covid, Sugar,
Steve Mandel, and Unpaid Bill Sherman. The executive producers are
a Mere Quest Love Thompson, Sean g and The Unbothered
Brian Calhoun. Produced by Brittany Benjamin, My Dog Cousin, Jake Payne,

(01:40:17):
My Motherfucking Man and Like he Is, Saint Clair My
work Wife, edited by Alex Conroy. Produced for iHeart by
Noel Brown.

Speaker 1 (01:40:27):
Us Up Supreme is a production of Myheart radio. For
more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.