Marilyn McCoo & Billy Davis

This week's guests on Questlove Supreme are known as the founding members of the highly successful group, The 5th Dimension. Marilyn McCoo and Billy Davis would move on from the group to become what Quest's calls "the first couple of Pop and Soul" making numerous hits while spreading love and joy. Listen as they break down fifty two years of marriage, music and their appearance in the Quest's directorial debut, Summer of Soul.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Question Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Quest Love Supreme. I'm who's Questlove.
We got to Yeah, we still got Team Supreme with us. Yeah. Uh,
how are you doing good? Doing good? From the east,

(00:21):
from the East Coast? So well, I'm looking forward. Yeah, wait,
you're you're in the East Coast. Yes, I'm doing I
told you. It's the vaccinated visit, Betty. Everybody vaccinated. Yes, Mama, Daddy, everybody,
welcome back, Welcome back home. I'm paid Bill you Okay,
I'm also vaccinated. I feel fantastic. All right, fantacolo. You're cool.

(00:45):
I'm good man. I'm good man, enjoying Uh, some grilled
chicken and a salad. Nice. I'm not trying to live better,
you know. I'm more on day twelve of salad. Just salad. Uh.
What's up? Uh, Steve, how's it going. I'll be the
only honest one here and say I am stressed out

(01:06):
this anyway. I want to get this done. No, we're
not stressed out. We're putting good vibrations out there. Um.
I will say that our distinguished guests are the founding
members of the legendary Grammy Award winning Fifth Dimension Um.
Of course, during the mid seventies, our guests left the

(01:28):
group and peer down to a duo released several Grammy
caliber songs like the Inescapable, You don't have to be
a star to be in My Show Your Love. I
hope we get the Loving Time Shine on Silver Moon,
plenty other seven Grammy nominations in total. UM. I would
actually paraphrase and say that they are They are Jane

(01:49):
Beyonce are the Billy and Merriman McCoo of of now,
not the opposite that they are the jade. They are
absolute happiness and enjoy. I consider them the first couple
of of of pop and soul. Their marriage has been
strong for fifty plus, uh, fifty plus years. I believed

(02:11):
coming this that is amazing. And they're still releasing music
Ladies and Gentlemen, which is incredible. Uh. They released a
new collection of Lennon McCartney compositions, aptletly titled Blackbird Songs
that were inspired by the turbulent experiences that we've been
through the last year or so. What else can I say?

(02:35):
Oh not not to mention they are a vital part
of the UH. I hear it's an excellent documentary, uh
about Cultural Festival nineteen nine. I hear it's good, you
know anyway, Really it comes out this week, comes out

(02:56):
this week. That's amazing, ladies and gentleman. He's welcome the legendary,
the legendary Billy Davis Jr. And Marilyn McCoo to quest left, Sup,
thank you, thank you to be here with you all. Listen,
you said you heard about the document ory being good.
You heard right. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna go see

(03:18):
it for myself. All those things you're saying about us.
How much do we owe you? I owe you guys.
I owe you guys. I really really really do love
you guys. Actually, you know what the one story? I don't.
I know a lot about you guys, But can you
guys describe I know that you guys were acquaintances before

(03:44):
you got married, of course, like no one starts off
being married and then starts, you know, with friends. Can
you guys describe the first time that you met each other?
Do you guys remember the first day you met each other?
I don't. You don't remember the first day. It's like
the newly white game was to hit him on the head. Well,
don't forget. Don't forget. It was fifty some years and

(04:07):
I was breaking. You're trying to say, he gotta gave
us my take, But we got married. I was never
going to speak to him again. And guess what. I
was walking down the aisle and I looked into his

(04:27):
face and I saw red eyes. Bachelor. Okay, I get it,
I get it. You remember up to that, right to
that point. Okay, before we before we met, I have
been hearing about this guy from St. Louis because the
Mont McLamore from the group and from the group, we're

(04:51):
all from St. Louis, and they were talking about this
guy named June Bud who was coming out from St.
Louis looking for a record deal, and that he could say, right,
and that's June. But I see you. So you're not
from St. Louis. Yes, yeah, Mr St. Louis. Yeah yeah.

(05:16):
So so the group was formed by and we should
also note that, uh, I'm not Ron. I'm sorry Lamon maclamore.
Is you did a week baby, the legendary Beauty of
the Week, Jet Beauty of the Week. He's he's a
photographer or something. He was the original Instagram shut up.

(05:40):
Yea even even to like when whenever Jet went uh.
I don't know when Jet stopped uh publication, but he
went to the very end. So yes, shut out. The
mom took all the pitches of all of them, but

(06:00):
most of the pictures of that, the women in the
bathing suits in the middle of yet yes career, even
at the height of fifth to mention them, like right
he was he was still doing that. Yeah, how can
one juggle both and still and still do that. I'm

(06:22):
also in the mind state that once you're in the
fifth dimension, you're touring all over like nine months out
of the year. But he was able to maintain both
on a weekly basis. Yes, yes, yes, I mean he would.
I don't know just how his setup was, but he
was definitely still doing it. You know. It's still making

(06:43):
our rehearsals. And sometimes when we would be out of town,
he would be off and we had a day off
or something, he would find some young lady to shoot,
you know it, take take out some bad shooters, you know,
even his own agent. That's incredible. Yes, yes, yes. One
of the one of the running jokes any time that

(07:04):
you guys were on any show was finding uh Lamont
a wife. That's always been like the running joke in
any Fifth Dimension interview, like was this was this bachelorhood
like legendary in the seventies, like pretty legendary. Yes? Yes,

(07:26):
did he eventually get married? Yes? He did a number
of years now, Okay, I was about to say no,
just just based on my fifth demnium research, Like every
time that was like a running joke. Did he did
he get married yet? Is he still bachelor? Okay? I
get it now. Well, Lamont was always the one in
the mail and the group that always had these long

(07:48):
range plans with these young ladies. You know, he would
meet a young lady and the hero long range plans
for her, you know. So that's that's that's why we
always teach him about getting married, waiting, waiting and waited,
but he finally did get married. Yes, Okay, what year
did the group officially form? I know that you guys

(08:11):
were under the name the Versatiles. It was the Versatiles, correct,
that's right that we started, Yes, yes, and that was
in and then why why was it changed to the
Fifth Dimension? Well, um, we were getting ready to come
up with this this song with our first single and
the the Man, who was the head of the record company,

(08:34):
thought that that the Versatile sounded kind of old, that
we needed something edgy and new. And we all went
home and uh, we were supposed to come back with
with creative ideas for new a new name for the group,
and ron Hownsend and his wife came up with the
name the Fifth Dimension. And when we first heard it,
everybody loved it and we so we voted on it,

(08:56):
because we voted on everything in the group and Dimension
one hands down. Was there like sort of a cosmic
kind of definition. Was it supposed to intentionally be like
psychedelic because of what the times were during that period
or yeah, pretty much. You know, we were five members
of the of a group. I think Ronald Man were

(09:18):
talking about sound dimension. Well, he they decided that the
fifth dimension was supposed to be the fifth dimension was sound,
So he said, okay, that makes sense. Yeah, okay, I see.
Did you guys at all? I know that um Bell
Records was a label um closely associated with Arthur Shimpkin

(09:41):
and also with I believe Clive Davis started or at
least worked there at that time period. Did you guys
work with him at all or have any dealings with
him or was he at Columbia by this point. Actually,
we well we didn't work with well, we did, we
did what we did work, but just for a minute,
you know, actually a Soul City was the was the

(10:03):
name of the label, and that was the one that
started the group. And then when and then Bell Records
came at Larry you remember that, Yeah, I know, I
know that name. Yes, yeah, Larry you Tall actually started
Bell Records and the fifth Dimension was still there. And

(10:23):
then uh, then some transitions took place and Clive Davis
came in and right, and when he came in, he
turned it into Arista correct, exactly right, Okay, I see now,
I see now I think one of them. I think
one of the guys that Bill Records was Ir Bagel. Bagel, Yes,

(10:43):
he worked with he worked with Larry yeah, yeah, in
the very evening. Yeah, in the beginning of the group.
Who decided the direction because you guys had a really
somewhat sophisticated, elegant, uh sound, sort of a step ahead
of I guess at the time like Motown was was

(11:06):
the leader of a more classier version of the soul.
But you guys were definitely kind of a step ahead
of that, like who decided the direction of the group
and how do you guys approach your creativity. Well, one
of the things that happened is when we first started
the group, and and and and and called ourselves as

(11:27):
versus those But we did that because we were all different.
All of those were different singers. I was more gospel
R and V blues, Maryland was more pop, and Ronald
was more operatic sounding, Fluence was more pop, and the
Mom was more of a base kind of singer, and

(11:48):
and and and and more of a pop sing So
when we we we decided, when we sawed it in
divers of Me, we lent to it as more of
a jazz kind of opportunity to do, to just create
just different types of music. And uh, but when we
got signed with Johnny Rivers, we carried that sound with
us right on into the record company. And so when

(12:09):
he suggested that we do go where you want to go,
and we said, well, from the Mamas and Poppers that
was a cover for us. And we said, well, you
know it's not gonna sound like motown. You know, we
we were we were We went into what was happening
for brothers and sisters you know, and even though we
now we had a different sound, that's what's the kind

(12:31):
of music we were looking for. But he said, none,
let's try this. It will be a hit. And when
he said it will be a hit, well, everybody was
looking for a hit, you know. You ever out of
every artist want to hit it, even if it's pop,
goes the weasels, you know. You know, So we did
go where you want to go and it came out

(12:53):
with more of a soul for sound, but not like
the pop mamas and papers, but it created out. Okay,
I see that. Um. I gotta say that. Um because
of my my weird obsession with the song uh MacArthur's Park.
I know that was written by a Jimmy Webb and

(13:15):
if you kind of look at his catalog, yeah, like
what's tall I'm in and all that stuff, like it's
like really weird unorthodox songs, and I know that he
wrote um up up in a way. So like at
the time when you were approached, how did that song

(13:36):
come into into the sphere the fifth dimension? And what
with this the deciding factor that Okay, this fits us
because it's it's kind of even though it's it's a hit,
it's a really very weird specific song, like we're going
to sing about balloons, air balloons or whatever. Like how

(13:57):
did how did that? How did you guys come across
that song? Well? You know, um uh. Mark Gordon, who
was the group's manager, introduced Johnny Rivers, who who was
the owner of Soul City Records, to Jimmy Webb because, uh,
he was saying, we need somebody creative and new and different.
And Mark had worked with Motown Records and had left

(14:20):
Motown and it's it's a long story about how we
all met. But he liked the group, he liked our direction,
and he said that he wanted to manage us. So,
uh so when he was talking to Johnny Rivers and
he said, and Johnny said, we need somebody young, new
and different. Mark said, there's a very talented young man
who was trying to get some of his songs recorded

(14:41):
at Motown. His name is Jimmy Webb. I'd like for
you to meet him. And so they met, and uh,
we ended up working together on our first album, which
was called Go Where You Want to Go. Well, actually
it ended up in calling being called and so we
were we were working on some music and and there

(15:01):
was a hot air balloon festival that took place down
in Palm Springs on over a weekend, and Jimmy went
down to that festival and he came back so inspired
by what he had seen that he wrote a song.
And he wrote this song called Up, Up and Away,
talking about the balloons. And so he played the song
for the group and we said, oh man, that's a

(15:25):
wonderful song. You know, it's a happy feeling. It makes
everybody want to dance and really good. You will never
be a hit. Oh yeah, I just thought I was
gonna be filler, like just an album, right, we thought,
you know, we were still this is waiting for some
motile stuff, you knowing, Man, that will never be a hit,

(15:48):
you know, And come to found out it was. It was.
It was a big smash. And then well we won
four Grammy and then uh bones, how well, no bones
wasn't producer on that Mark Mark Mark and Johnny Rivers
one for production Grammys, and Jimmy Webb won it for

(16:10):
the song. Now, I remember you guys previously telling me
before that when you guys won the Grammy for the song,
that you weren't too sure like how important the Grammys
were like or if it was a big deal like
in the late sixties. Were the Grammys as big of
a press teach thing as we hold it now or

(16:33):
was it just like, Oh, that's nice, we want a Grammy.
What's Grammy? Exactly? That's what we bought. Well at that time,
the Grammys weren't being tells, so so the record company
was so excited, Oh, you all been nominated for Grammys,
and we said that is so cool. What's Yeah, we
didn't even know what it was, you know. And uh,

(16:54):
but but after we won the first Grammy and behind
all that excitement, the next one we were we were
in line for it. Let's see. Uh, you guys mentioned
Mark Gordon because I'm I'm like a fan slash efficionado

(17:15):
of Soul Train. I know that oftentimes, like uh, if
Al Wilson was on the show, uh, don would talk
to Mark or um uh he was there I think
during the Staple Singers episode as well. So like I'm
familiar with Mark Gordon. The thing was, I didn't know
that he was married to uh Florence LaRue during that

(17:37):
time period. But I was also shocked for you guys
to go to the levels and the heights that you've
going to. Even in my mind, I thought, wow, they
really had like a powerful white manager. How was it?
How was it that Mark was able to work his

(17:57):
magic as as a man, and you know he's managed
everyone like name it, like Tony. This also probably explains
why you Antoni, Orlando and Dorn also at your variety shows.
Like what was Mark like as a manager that he
had like further further reach than your average manager, where

(18:18):
he can get his ex even past mainstream participants in
spaces where you normally don't see black acts. Well, Mark
had a lot. You know. Mark came again from the
Motown background, and so I'm sure he learned a lot
when he was there, and he he was running the
West Coast office of Motown Records, and that's how we

(18:39):
met him. And he was also a producer, and so
we were hoping that maybe he would produce a record
on the group and we would end up at Motown.
But again, for one reason or another that Mark and
and Motown agreed to disagree. And so Mark came and said,
I'd like to manage you guys. I like I like

(19:01):
your idea, I like the sound that you have, and
I think I can do something with you. And then
he and Johnny Rivers. Johnny Rivers, who was a who
was more of a country singer, had some major hits,
but he loved R and B and he wanted to
produce some R and B music. So he came to
market he said, why don't we co produce some projects together,

(19:25):
And so that was how they ended up producing us,
And that was how we ended up recording and go
where you want to go and then up up in
the Way, and Mark introduced Johnny to Jimmy Webb. So
so Mark, Mark was a visionary in so many ways.
He he was. He was definitely a good manager and
he I think the popularity of the group is what

(19:47):
kind of got him in the in the position to
be able to open the doors because don't forget he
was a personal manager. But but but we also had
an agency opening doors to like William More, you know,
without populargic, we would we would, we would we would
going pop? You know, yes, And we were right in

(20:09):
the middle of that. So all the doors were opening
for they had television shows and all the all the
all of the white shows that was that was that
was happening. They wanted the fifth mention, So what was
it ever? Um a struck? Okay, so one one of
the one of the uh kind of career highlights for

(20:31):
most black acts that I've spoken to, UM, especially that
have started in the sixties, most of them were being
groomed to play the copa. That was like like one
thing is surviving the Apollo, the other thing is being
able to play the copa, which you know, I can

(20:52):
only imagine that that that was a prestigious thing. Um
Was that necessarily a goal for this particular group or
was that not? Kind of in in your radar? Everybody
wanted to play the copah. Everybody wanted to play the copa.
But what happened was we got there was another club

(21:13):
in New York, well actually it was it was a club,
but it was a room at the Americana Hotel. It
us called the Royal Box the Box, and they ended
up hiring us and we would work the Royal Box

(21:34):
every year, right during a prim season, you know, So
they knew that at that place every year, So it
was three or four years straight that's where we were at.
So I guess the the copa once they knew we
were at the Royal Box. They never tried to book us.
They never tried to book us. Blew our chance by

(21:57):
working at the Royal Box. But you know what, it
was great because because of the Royal Box, that's how
we ended up with finding h Okay. So I know
this legendary story, um, and it's definitely one of the
highlights of summer. So could you please share our audience

(22:17):
the circumstances that actually lead you to recording, uh, the
Age of Aquarius Let the Sunshine in. And this is
a show true story right right. I can't believe it,
but it's amazing. I think we made it up for stage,
but we came. You can't make up nothing like this,
you know, no, you can't. We're working in New York.

(22:38):
And the funny thing is that I went out the
shop and and and coming back getting out of the cab,
I lost my wallet and the fill in the cab.
So I came upstairs in the Hotel Roman and I
told mary I was looking at my post baby, I've
lost my wallet, and Marylyn said, oh, well, you can
forget that. You ain't gonna never see the wall of

(23:00):
do more. And so about an hour after that, I
got a phone call and the guy said, is this
Billy Davids Jr. And I said, yes it is. And
he said, I got your wallet the wallet, and I
got all excited because he found my wallet. And I

(23:21):
told him, I said, but just hold on to it.
I'm coming to your house and and and get it.
So I went to his house and and I offered
him some money. He didn't want their money. So I
invited him to come and see us at the Royal Box. Okay,
perform him. So he took us up on that. So
after the show, he came to the show, him and
his wife. And after the show he came backstage and

(23:43):
he said, man, you guys were beautiful. It's one of
my love the show. He said, since you were so nice, Billy,
I'd like to invite you to see our show. I said,
what show. Come to find out he was one of
the producers of had have been trying to get in
to see hair, but I don't know how long most

(24:04):
seats it was like it was like that was like
the Hamilton's was trying to get in to see the hair.
And well it was the first time they've ever seen
people necking on stage, you know, so everybody was dashing.
You know. But but we finally got in. He invited

(24:27):
us over to see it and we saw this young
kid by the name of Ronnie Dyson singing Aquarius and
when he he he filled the auditorium with that beautiful
boss of his and when he when he did that,
we all heard it right then and said, we have
to do that song. That's a Fifth Demension song. It's

(24:48):
gonna be It's gonna be a hit, that's what with
the first time we ever said that it's gonna be
a hit. And sure enough it was the biggest record
that we've ever ever recorded. That's amazing. How did it?
How did it go from the stage to your song though?
With that strange with the producer? Well, well, we called
we called our producer who was Bones how and we

(25:11):
said Bones, and I mean everybody. When we got together
at intermission, we were all all five of us said
this is gonna be a hit. So we called Bones
and said, Bones, we found our next hit. And he
said what's that and we said quarious. He said, well,
I don't know. He said, there's a lot of people
that have tried to make a hit out of that
song and it hasn't one. And we said, but the

(25:35):
fifth Division, didn't you know, how determined to record that song.
So he said, well, let me let me listen to
it some more and see what we can come up with.
So then he came back to us a little while later,
a couple of weeks later, and he said, I think
I have an idea of how to make this work.

(25:55):
And he came up with the idea of taking Aquarius
and putting it together with another song, Sunshine. Yes, that's
the Sunshine in, which was from the song called flash Faces, right,
and by combining the two of those together, we ended
up with the biggest hit of our career. Yeah. Oh so,

(26:16):
let's the Sunshine and was not a part of hair.
I didn't know that, Okay, well it was. It was
a part of Hair together. Okay, just like the point.
But we did with that the Sunshine In. As a
matter of fact, the way that they did it in
the show was that the sun Shine. Yeah, it was

(26:40):
one of the slow and okay, the Sunshine It was
upset song, right, but Bones came up with the idea
of making it more joyous. And then when we were
in the studio recording it, then he said, okay, the
group of singing it like let the sunshine. Then he says, okay, Billy,
now go and take it to church. Many. Yeah, that's amazing.

(27:07):
On on an average how many how many gigs? What
just from a touring standpoint, I know, touring from more
or less like doing five straight months like living on
the road never coming home like after five straight months
or whatever. But could you describe to us, like what
was what was the the gig circuit like during that

(27:32):
time in around n for the group, Like how many
was it mainly just one night ers or was it
you know, concentrated time in America then you go to
other parts of the world, like what was the average
touring season like for the Fifth Dimension? Well, it's more
about America, about the United States. He played a lot
of college campuses. We did a lot of a lot

(27:55):
of concerts. We dressed, we we got dressed in a
lot sweaty locker room. You're coming there, you're coming there
after a game, after they left from a game, and
it would be lit up, you know, but you have
to go in there, and you did dress and you know,

(28:16):
the young young you know, you you get passed that
you get out there, but you're worried about doing the
best you can do when you get in front of
that audience, you know. But yes, we we, but we did.
We played clubs too. We played clubs, but we were
out on the road maybe about oh boys seven to
eight months out of the year. We were on the road,

(28:36):
I mean, moving constantly. We also played Las Vegas and UH,
which which a lot of the artists weren't doing, but
that was one of the one of the offers that
we got and UH we ended up playing the main
room UH as one of the helping actspert for Frank Sinatra,

(28:57):
And that was another way that we were reduced to
the to the country at large. And then we did
a lot of we did. We did a number of
concerts just around around the country and a lot of
riding around on buses. Right, really, okay when when you're
doing uh, okay, if you're opening for Frank Sinatra. I

(29:21):
know that um we interviewed uh the Jackson's some time
ago on the show, and I know that their experience
with doing Vegas was that, you know, they had to
sort of expand their repertoires somewhat, do more show tunes,
do more? Yeah, pretty much. So would you have to

(29:46):
change the show specifically for Vegas audience or was it
pretty consistent the same show that you would do for colleges?
Were they the same for Las Vegas? Or we wouldn't
do the for colleges. We would do more of our
our recording majoritia that were recording material. Then we would

(30:07):
mix mix up our show with with songs that were
high rhythm, high energy, and and Billy get out there
and start singing a lot of his soul things, and
Florence and I through dancing and shaking. You know. It changed.
It depended upon where we were working. We would we
would have change. But for Vegas, we would do uh

(30:28):
more of a production kind of a show, you know.
We we we would put some production uh quality into
the into the show, like uh a song that we
did called Old too Old to Billy Joe, you know,
and each one of us took a part so it
looked like a theater piece in Vegas, and it kept

(30:51):
the audience right there, you know, because they wanted to
see what each character was doing, you know, and then
after that piece, we would come up with one of
the hits or something like that, you know, bring him
back down to where we at, you know. So yeah,
we would do that. You also know that you're one
of the few acts that um, you know, doing doing
a residency on Broadway. Uh is usually u a special occasion.

(31:16):
I mean it rarely happens now, Like Bruce Springsteen, I
had had a one man show recently before the pandemic
warm Broadway, but you guys were definitely one of the
first acts to do lack of residency there. Well, I
think I'm trying to lead up to why you two
are so natural when you guys got your own variety

(31:37):
special in terms of like doing more than just performing
your songs, like jokes would be you know in the
show and little sketches and whatnot, Like did that prepare
you for that? Especially with when you did your Broadway residency?
Or we had a wonderful man by the name of
Renee de Knight who worked with the group and helped helped.

(31:59):
He taught us a lot about the entertainment business and
about what made what made shows work. And Uh, we
would get together and come up with with songs that
Renee came up with the idea of old to Billy Jill.
You remember that he was the one who realized that
there were five characters and that in the song and

(32:21):
then and we were able to put those five characters
together and and do that song. And Uh. He had
been with a group called the Delta Rhythm Boys, who
were very, very successful uh in Europe, and he when
he came and saw us and saw what we were about,
he just felt like, you know, he wanted to work
with us and teach us some of the things that

(32:43):
he knew about how to make live shows really work
for your audiences and how to mix the music up.
And Renee. We give a lot of credit to Renee
for helping to teach us about the business and about
how it worked and and how to make it work.
You know when you talk about when when we did
that residency on Broadway, Yeah, they were working with a dancer.

(33:06):
His name was Joe Joe Smith. You remember Joe Joe Smith.
I can't say I've heard of him, Okay, Well, Joe
Joe Smith had a dancing company and one of the
members of his dancing dancing company was a young woman
by the name of Debbie Allen. And that was how

(33:26):
we met Debbie and we when we did our residency,
we were on Broadway for a month and we had
came up with the idea of having a dancing company
be our opening for the show, because again, it was
a nice balance and a difference of of entertainment and

(33:47):
and it made for a very entertaining show. And that
was how we That was, That was what we did
on Broadway. That was yes, yes, yes, it was. I see,
I see. Can I just ask how did you? I
just want to know how you guys figured out your
like physical aesthetic, like for your live shows, for your
album covers, Like what was the decision behind the outfits

(34:10):
and how everything would come together? Well, you know, when
when it when it came to to our live shows,
we we were known for wearing these different type of outfits,
you know, right from the beginning. I mean, you know,
they addressed us funny, you know, but they would dress
us in the same colors, but more to our personalities,

(34:33):
you know, So what was your color? What was your color?
Billy outfit would be a little different, and and that
that was our theme, you know. And and then all
of a sudden, they got a little bit more sophisticated
as we as we stayed into the business longer, you know,
they became sleeker and you know, different different like that.
Then they would, and they would put those on the

(34:53):
album covers and and I guess the direct the record
company would say, hey, you know, put it on the album,
because if they see album, they know the mention not
to say that, you know. The idea for that of
dressing in different different in the themes was actually Lamont's

(35:14):
Lamont Mcamore, because we were getting ready to work in
a club in l a and the group was not
it was not famous at that time, and so we
had this job, but we didn't have any outfits, and
so it was like, oh my god, what are we
gonna do? So Lamont came up with this idea. He said, hey, well,

(35:36):
everybody has got something black and white in your closet,
so why don't we take take an outfit and everybody
wear black and white and you just wear whatever you
want to wear. And that was what we worked that
night at that club, and we all had on black
and white. And there was a guy in the audience
by the name of Boyd Clopton and he was a designer,

(35:58):
and he came backstage afterwards and he said, I love
your idea. You know, you took this theme about black
and white, but you each wore your own personality, and
he said, I would love to try to design something
for you. He said, would you let me design an
outfit using that kind of idea? And that was how
that evolved. And he would come up with sketches and

(36:21):
different things like that and show him to us before
he would make them. You know, yeah, we would okay
him and and each one each job that would be
more in keeping with the with the personality of the singer.
How long did he stay with you guys with making that?
What was with us for a long time at least? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Actually,

(36:44):
I'm glad you asked that. I always wanted to know us.
There were so many amazing things that that happened, the
people that we met, the people who came involved, became
involved with the group, the people who crossed our paths,
and uh, it was truly I feel like the fifth
dimension was truly blasted. Well yeah, yeah, well I always

(37:06):
wanted to know. Okay, So I know again, in today's
the times that we live in today, there are entourages,
there's you know, assistant, there's wardrobe people, there's blah blah
blah blah blah blah, bah blah blah. But I know that.
At least back then it was sort of like self
contained and artists were responsible for their own outfits and whatnot.

(37:30):
So when when you are extensively touring and you have
these outfits and whatnot, like, how do you how do you?
How's the upkeep? Like? Are you guys the ones that
have to iron your stuff before the show? Run to
the cleaners in between cities and whatnot? Like? Or was
there a wardrobe person on detail? No? No, we were,

(37:54):
but we would do because we we ended up having
to take a wardrobe person with us on the on
the road. You know, they took care of all the
while we would doing our sound checks and getting into
the theaters and different things like that. They were backstage
taking the outfits out of the trump and you guys

(38:16):
were high level, Okay, I get it. They did their
own stuff to that point. Was there ever pressure on
you Maryland and Florence to make sure that y'all looked
as amazing as y'all did in these outfits? Well, we
you know, we we were sitting that in that mirror
and make sure we look um. Yeah, but I mean

(38:42):
not to not to not to make the iron the
dresses and ironed the guys that no, no, no, I
meant to look good in the outfits, not to Yes, yes,
that's what I meant. Well, we tried our best, and
of course, uh with with Boyd coming in with his
his ideas of you know, I'm looking at our bodies
and and trying to what's going to work right? You know,

(39:07):
that's that's the great having a designer because they fit
the outfit to your body. Yeah. Yeah, I'm learning. That's
a grown up thing. Nothing about Taylors and whatnot and
having things. Yeah, it's great. Wait, okay, I know, okay,

(39:28):
so I know that that uh Laura Nero wrote the song,
but I always wanted to know. And you know, I've
seen you guys performing millions of times on the show
and and whatnot, but the significance of wedding bell Blues
and and it's popularity, I'm certain that you guys always

(39:50):
get asked like, was was this song just a platform
for Maryland to put Billy on the spot about marriage
and whatnot? Even though I believe you guys were probably
married at the time, were when they came up, so
it was the same year. Yes, whose idea was it
to do that song? And the whole marry Me bill

(40:12):
and all those things like, because it was kind of
unheard of at the time where it's reverse and the
woman is asking the man to for you know, marriage. Yeah. Well,
actually Laura Row wrote that for a bill in her life.

(40:32):
Oh okay, right, I thought you customized it just for
the years. I didn't realize that, you know. She wrote it,
and she released it as a single and it it
did well in California, but not across the country because Bones, how,
our producer, came to us with the idea of you know,
Billy and I were going together and he thought, oh,

(40:53):
how cute it would be for Maryland to sing wedding
bell blues to Billy. So and we said the Bones,
it's our eve been out and it wasn't a hit.
He said, no, it wasn't. He said. It was a
hit in California, he said, but it wasn't a hit
across the country. So we went in and recorded it
and put it on the album and it ended up
being picked as one of the singles. I see now.

(41:17):
I read in another interview that you two did that. Maryland.
You were the one that was actually a little skittish
about marriage, but Billy was all in is that? Yeah?
I was all into it, you know, but you know
how many bills that I've met since since we got married,

(41:39):
Because you guys were bandmates before you became married. Was
there ever ever I thought of this might be a
conflict of interest? Like if you're dating now, then if
we break up, then it's going to be awkward in
the group. Like how what was the awkward factor? Because

(42:02):
I mean, you guys have been in the band since
sixty five, but you got married in sixty nine. Like
what eventually led to that marriage? How do you maintain
a business relationship and you know, keep the marriage happy
so to speak? Now I need Jill and I started

(42:27):
becoming friends. That's right when we would go to rehearsal
together and we would we spend a lot of time
driving back and forth to rehearsal. And and not only that,
but after rehearsals sometimes we go to parties, and Billy
and I found ourselves spending a lot of time with
each other just talking and laughing and talking about our

(42:47):
lives and you know, how we felt about music and
how we wanted to sing all of our lives and
what we wanted to do in life, and you know,
just share it with each each other, our dreams, you know,
and and and and our passions. But but we were
being parties and party would be jumping in Maryland on
the couch talking. People must have thought, were weird. That's

(43:11):
that stuff, that's stuff right here into ourselves, you know.
And uh, we've been like that ever since. You know.
So we were we were friends. And then when we
started really kind of realizing that it was developing into
something more than friendship, we kind of I thought, We've
said to each other, are we gonna mess this side? Yeah,

(43:38):
this is a dangerous thing to do. You know, you
will mess this up, this thing up, because you know,
you can create a mess in the group. That's that's
that's going strong. You know. We all we need is
a big argument, you know, it's anything crazy and it's over,
you know. But but by that time, we we couldn't
stop our friendship. Our friendship was stronger than anything else. Yeah.

(44:02):
And you know, my parents, my parents have been married
for twenty four years and then they got a divorce.
And I thought, I don't know if this marriage thing
is just. But you know, on the other hand, I
wasn't I wasn't worried about it because my parents have
been mad for sixty eight years, my own you know,

(44:26):
that's a lot of pressure on your kids. Yeah, man,
I was curious to know how y'all keep from, say,
if y'all have an argument or disagreement about something in
the studio, over something musically, or something in your career,
how do you keep those disagreements and your personal in
your professional life from bleeding over into your personal life.

(44:48):
But it's a good question, you know, a very good question,
because those things have happened, you know, but when they
do happen, we have to realize that that's a that's
a moment, that's a moment in time. Those things happen
to people who are in the in the industry, especially
people who work together. You know that that been has
when when things has happened from one and and and

(45:10):
hasn't happened for the other. You just have to live
with that, you know. Most of all, you have to
be thankful. The easiest way to get over that, and
be thankful for that one that's getting it, you know,
and that and then you can get over the right
quick being thankful. Did it always come that easy to y'all? Well,
you know, like sometimes before we go on stage, Billy

(45:33):
and I would be angry and we would be locked
in battle. But right, but then, how do you sing
Wedding bell Blues to him? Because I know and you
want to kill him. I know that song is such
a staple for your careers and you have to sell
it like you're singing to him and he's doing an
act in whatever, Like if if there's an argument that happens,

(45:54):
how do you sell that song? Well, you know you
can't take that out on the stage. You can't. And
so we say, I say, you know, we do. You
know that's that's always the word. Yeah, you're right, yeah
we will. You know, when you get on on stage

(46:15):
and start singing, you can't. You can't say angry. But
could you be angry afterwards? Like if you have done
all that on stage, like could you could you could
you get back to Yes? Yes, boy Bill, I can't
wait till we do the new edition episode because I
got a story from you for this was over. I

(46:36):
was like, now we gotta get back into this. And
then you get backstage and you say, well, I don't
even remember. Yeah, I work with my girlfriend. It's the
same thing like I don't know what we're arguing about,
and then you know that big anyway, You know, most
of the arguments that that couples have a pay they

(46:58):
really are. But I'll tell you to think about it.
Once the argument is over, you get away from it
and you think, well, what was that about? Why did
I do that? It didn't mean nothing if I could
have only thought about that before we got into it.
But a lot of times our egos won't let us
do that, so we've got to carry it out. Yeah,
we can win the battle, but you might lose the
war wise words, But in a in a in a group,

(47:26):
from a group standpoint, and it's five of you, how
are you guys able to like is it all of
us have to be unanimous and deciding on something like
how how are sort of decisions made for songs or
album titles or you know, can we make this gig? Like?

(47:50):
Is it? Is it democracy? Or is it like is
there someone that actually is the the alpha leader the
group that makes the decisions for the are things? Yeah,
you know, we used to we used to laugh about,
we used to say laugh about how we would say
we met more than the U N Yeah, it was

(48:13):
definitely a democracy. I mean we uh, we agreed the
one who uh, the majority who who came up with it.
That was the way we went. You know, yeah, we
we we talked about all of our jobs. You know,
we agreed to disagree whatever. But but most of the time,
like with with the things that pertain to uh to

(48:33):
the career part, like with the title of the album
and what were the songs the final songs that we're
gonna be on the project, most of the time that
the record company would make that decision. You know, we
we would work on it and then we'd say, you
know what, we're not record you know, we don't know
how to run a record company. We know how to

(48:55):
make the music and let them choose what's gonna what's
gonna south Well, that was probably the best That was
the best way for the group anyway, because putting all
five people together talking about which one is the best
one out that, you know, then the fight started. I
see yeah we don't want that. Yeah, well that okay.

(49:15):
So that leads me to what was the process of
YouTube leaving the group and going duo. Well, you know,
that was a that was a tough decision, very tough
for us because I don't remember all three of the

(49:36):
guys from St. Louis. I mean, we were like family.
We knew each other when we were kids, you know,
and uh kind of migrated to Los Angeles at different times,
and uh end up being in the group and so
and and and and and and meeting Maryland and Florence
and being a part of the family. So they we
were like a family. But we were a family who's

(49:58):
who had dreams. It's like a families that somebody went dreams.
Like my whole dream was to come out was to
be a solo singer with with more time, you know what.
Maryland's dream was to be a solo singer with whatever
we call it and and come to she could get whatever
received her as a as as a solo singer, you know,
a pop singer. But and uh, so we thought about it,

(50:21):
and after ten years we thought, will we ever fulfilled
the dream that we really started with? Uh? You know what,
would we be the ones to come up with the
saying that said, if I had only I should have?
Would have? Should have I should have? You know you
always added to the back of your mind, could we
have done this on our own? You know? So we

(50:43):
decided and then that at the particular time that there
was there was everybody in the group wanted to do more,
you know, so that that thing was happening, you know,
so we decided, well, you know, it's it's it's about
time for us and to to kind of strike out
on our own and see what we can do ourselves.
Did you guys still maintain the friendship after uh you

(51:05):
guys left the group in Yeah, yes, we did. It
took a couple It took a couple of years before
we you know, because they were hurt feelings and which
was understanding. We could understand that. But we're very close
as family now, you know, we got we're just still
surviving members. Just who's still surviving along with you guys

(51:27):
other group is everyone's still alive? Not everyone. Ron Townsend
has passed away. They gave a big one with the
beard right yeah, yeah, yes, the way and on the
rest of the other four still living is alive. Fact,
we talked to her but day so ago and the
mom uh is standing in Las Vegas and we talked

(51:48):
to him not too long ago, So we were very close.
We're very close. Yeah. I have one fifth to mentioned
question that actually has to do with when you guys
left left the group. But I'm hoping you can answer
this for me because it's been killing me. Okay, so
this came out when I was five years old, so

(52:11):
I really, even though I kind of had an adults
knowledge of music at the age of five, if this
always killed me? Am I? Am I dreaming? Or did
the Fifth Dimension actually have a version of Love Hangover
before Diana Ross did, because I could have sworn I've

(52:34):
seen them on American Bandstand doing Love Hangover and I
was just confused at the time. And it's almost like
I didn't hear of it. Am I dreaming of that?
Or this was after Billy and I had left the
h after you left. I was just hoping you might
know the answer to that. Right, You're gonna give you
the as So I wasn't dreaming. Okay, did have a

(52:58):
version of Love pay Over and Florence sang the lead
on it, right and they released it as a single,
but um, right around the same time Motown decided to
release Diana Ross's version of Right. And that's why you

(53:19):
were confused as a child, because you said, wait a minute, now,
I wasn't crazy. It doesn't sound too different. You listen
to it. Why did I just bother to this YouTube? Yeah? Sorry,
I'm asking that question. It was like, never once did
it occurred to me to Yeah, never once that I

(53:42):
did occurred to me. Why don't you just YouTube or Google?
You're learning a mirror one day, you're going to the stories.
Why not? What I was saying, like, I remember them
doing it on American band Stand. I remember my mom
really loving that song when they did it, and I

(54:03):
remember them doing a few times on like variety shows,
and then like yeah, when I was in first grade,
like a year when I was six, and suddenly like, oh,
it was Dinah Rosses song. And then in my mind
I was like, wait, was I watching Dinah ross do
it the whole time? And maybe not? But I knew
in my mind I always associated Love Hangover with the
Fifth Dimension. I just thought I was the fifth dimension

(54:27):
version with the moans. You could drop with the moans
in there too. No, Okay, I'm sorry, inappropriate, in appropriate?
Excuse me? Sorry? Okay. So in going solo, well, first
of all, let it let it be known that the
very first time that I ever uh saw Jay Leno

(54:50):
was on the Billy Davis Jr. Marilyn mccou show. Could
you all right, So for our listeners out there that
are that are listening, can you explain the the value
or the importance of the variety show in the seventies? Like,
I know that now we live in a reality show

(55:12):
kind of environment, But when I was growing up, I
remember like Gladys Night and the Pips having a variety show.
I remember Flip Wilson, Tony Orlando and Dawn, like Shields
and Yard. Now like everyone had the Jackson's, everyone had
a variety show. What was the like, was that a

(55:35):
desire for you guys or was it like this is
going to take you guys to the next level? What
was the big deal with variety shows? Yeah? I think that, Yeah,
I think that that was that was the thing to
do at that time. Yeah, we would basically the first
black couple to really have a variety show. Yeah, in

(55:55):
the industry, you know. And uh it was a summer
replacement show. And we had six shows to do and
we and we and we completed that and uh. But
but doing television was was was good. The only thing
that that was a little bit confusing for us was
having to learn songs. So quick, you know, because of
the television you have to learn the song almost like

(56:18):
that week and then performing that that week, you know.
And we used to spend a little bit more time
those songs to kind of make those songs us, you know,
make it, make it. We could get some meat out
of it, you know, right, But that that was the
only thing outside of that We were ready for it
because we loved we enjoyed doing the skits and you know,

(56:38):
all of the funny stuff and the love songs, and yeah,
it was good, it was good. But that as being
the first one. Then after that a lot of these
other shows started coming on. Yeah, but like you were
saying about Jay Minno, so so what we did with
our skits, because you always had to have a little
humor in the show, and so the idea but since

(57:00):
we had spent so much time on the road, why
not make the road experience be part of your humor
in the show. And Jay Leno came along. He was
a young unknown comic at the time, and we ended
up he ended up being our playing our tour manage, right, yeah,

(57:21):
and he would always give you guys like weird assignments.
That was like I remember, we had lost Somebody on
the Road and I totally remember that. And you guys
were in the show the same way, right, Like you
guys would say good night, like was it in like
in bed Like yeah, that was like it would be

(57:42):
like at the end of the day, you know, and
getting me had to say good night to one another,
you know, singing a song, singing and then turn it
out the light, you know. Right, Wait, you said that
was only six episodes in the summer. Yes, yes, so
weird Like in my again, like in my mind, I'm
thinking like, oh that that was on for like four

(58:04):
or five years. I well, I mean we watched it
religiously in the crist in the house, So okay, I
see television because you know, you can show him over
and over and over. Yeah, I think that they're happened.
There's something's more than just six you know. Are you

(58:28):
guys aware of the kind of the status I'll say
that in in like dancehall reggae culture. I hope we
get to love and time kind of has uh a
different meaning in the Islands, like that song it's been
covered so many times by like various singers in Jamaica

(58:51):
that were you guys even aware of how big that
song is over there or at least amount of covers,
like there's at least we've never heard it. I'd love
to hear it. Yeah, it's it's it's almost it's kind
of like a staple like that's that's that's one of
the ballots you have to sing if you, you know,
if you're kind of in the at least around like

(59:16):
the early eighties, suddenly there was like just a one
slot of I hope we get to love in time. No,
we didn't know it. Yeah, oh okay, yeah, I was
gonna say that with uh with your love and you
don't have to be started? Was it was it different
or did you guys at least have more creative control

(59:40):
in the songs that you wanted to do outside of
the Bell UH label where they mostly made the decisions
for you. What was the difference in coming to ABC
than it was for Bell. Well, basically, you know what
we were we were with ABC. Uh. The smith was

(01:00:00):
a it was a what you called it his position, Yeah, yeah, man,
and when he when he picked Don Davis to be
our producer. But yeah, well yeah Don Davis he producer. Uh,
I hope we get to love of Time album, but
he would. He came to us with a bunch of songs,

(01:00:21):
and you don't have to be a star was was
one of them. And right naturally when we heard that,
we thought, bo, this is this is clever, you know,
what a great saying. You don't have to be a
star to be in my shoe, you know, And it
just it just seemed a bit you know. And but
we always thought that I hope we get to Love
of Time would be the statement that we wanted to

(01:00:42):
make because Maryland and me and know open the love songs,
you know, and uh, come to find out that you
don't have to be a star was was a major
hits that Yeah you did behind that became another hit
was your Love? Yeah, your Love and your little gospel
uh riffs at the end of it. I used to

(01:01:05):
see that a lot in second grade. Sorry, do you
remember at all? Um? I'm I'm a big fan also
of Frank Wilson, his production work, especially with you know
he worked on like a lot of Eddie Kendricks's solo stuff. Yes,
he was the prime producer. What was it like working

(01:01:26):
with Frank Wilson. Frank was a good friend, Yes, Yes,
Frank was not only a good friend, you know, Frank
ended up becoming a feature a pastor. Uh yeah, okay,
and he was he was very instrumentally in Maryland and
Me becoming Christians, you know. Okay, that was just a salmon,

(01:01:47):
I guess in his life bringing. It's been an entertainers
the christ as it could and and uh and that
was a good thing for us, you know, because it's
one of the things that really kept us even closer
than than we really are, love our faith, you know.
And but Frank was the producer of the Two of

(01:02:10):
Us album that we did, and we found out later
on that there was a song on on that album
called Wonderful right, and it was more of a R
and V flavor, you know, kind of kind of song.
And we found out that that song was a major
hit in Germany. We never we never even knew it.

(01:02:31):
Oh really, no, we never knew it. We were all
the ship doing a doing a cruise and this German
guy was on on the hitcome and the answers, They said,
you guys are gonna sing Wonderful. We looked and show
we hadn't even thought about it, you know, he said, Yes,

(01:02:51):
a big hit in Germany. The big hit. One of
the fun things about working with Frank was that we love,
we all love, we all loved picking unusual songs and uh,
Frank would. Frank brought some unusual songs to us and
things that we found fun, fun to do and kind

(01:03:13):
of wacky, kind of different. Um, we didn't end up
with a hit with but we had a good time.
That a good time saying those songs because they were different. Yea,
you know they were different. But the one love song
that we did love was love for You? What what
is it? Oh? Now I was gonna ask about saving

(01:03:34):
all my love for you. I know that you guys
had that first before Whitney Houston did. Yes, Yes, we did, yeah,
and yeah, like, how how did you guys come across
that song? Oh? My gosh, Michael Master wrote the song
and and oh gosh, now now you got me you

(01:03:56):
got me on that one. I don't remember how that's
song was brought to us, do you remember? Yeah? I
think I think we ran into Michael Masson somewhere and
he wanted to produce us and want the song and
he wanted us to do that. That song and another
song that I did I forgot the name of it.

(01:04:21):
The song was my reason to be That's frank song
that on the two of us albums. Okay, we always
thought that that would be there was one of the
greatest love songs. That we had to record it, you know,
but saving all my love for you, well, yeah, we

(01:04:41):
we went into the studio with Michael and uh Whitney.
Whitney turned that song out, Yes, yes, say the least.
He did a beautiful job on that. Yeah. Well, of course,
you know, of course we'd be remiss if we didn't
mention that. Earlam and Coup I guess around two eighty

(01:05:04):
three replaced Dion work as the host of Solid Thank You.
I knew he was going in salid. Could you could
talk about the experience of how how that came to be?
And I mean, you know, that was such a legendary

(01:05:24):
show and at the time when you were hosting practically
any artists worth their weight in Gold, I mean even Prince,
who was notorious for snubbing shows like had to do
Solid Gold twice. So who's that whole experience? Like I
enjoyed it. Of course Dion did it for the first

(01:05:44):
year and uh she and well, actually, let's see Dion
and Dion and Glennie Campbell. That's did I think they
did the first year the first I don't even think
they did the first year. I think they did the
I think they they introduced the show. But then I
don't know what happened with with Dione and Glenn But

(01:06:07):
but Dion ended up hosting the first year and then
um after that. I don't know the inner workings because
I came in um after all that was going on,
and the producers had decided that they wanted to and
they wanted Andy gibb Right to be the to be

(01:06:30):
the host, and then they thought about combining. They liked
the idea of Dione and Glenn. They like the the
male and female male female and anyway, so they auditioned
me with with with Andy, and they liked the combination,
and so I ended up doing that first year with

(01:06:52):
with Andy and and they liked it that At the
end of the first year, Andy moved on he was
having some issues and still then uh, I ended up
doing this. I don't need to take you through each
I mean, okay, we're here for it. Yeah, the Rick

(01:07:12):
Smith and I co hosted the show this next year.
Rick Smith or Rick ds no Rex, You're right, Rex
Smith's totally forgot about that, okay until later. So then
Rex and I did it the second year, and then
the third year they we're trying to decide who who

(01:07:34):
I should work with on the third year, and then
they decided that that they would just go with me,
and so then I was I was with solid goal
for those next three years. That's the only years I remember. Yeah, yeah,
because you were children. What was this? What was the scheduling,

(01:07:57):
uh into because I mean, because they were celebrating the charts.
Was it all year round or was it like seasonal? Yeah,
it was it was seasonal. We would we would do
the shows we would do we would tape every other
week and we would go with the charts and what
was big at that time, and uh, we would we

(01:08:20):
would take Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, and then uh then
the following week would be off. I'd go out and work.
Billy and I would go out and work, and then
I come back and we featured the next songs that
were popular then and I see, yeah, so but it

(01:08:41):
was basically just it was a good experience in doing that.
I enjoyed that a lot because, uh, like you said,
everybody came on and did the shows and you know,
you're you're, you're. I remember when Madonna came on, and
of course I remember Prince being there, and that was
that was. I don't I didn't get a chance to

(01:09:03):
really spend any time with Prince because he's kind of
it was kind of shy, but still it was. It
was a lot of fun and the dancers, of course,
were just amazing. I was gonna say, how nice was
Darcella Wayne. I'm sort of like a unicorn in that,
you know, probably next to Sheryl Song on Soul Train,

(01:09:23):
Darcella Wayne was probably the most popular dancer on Solid Gold.
But he never heard of anything I've earned in the
press or anything. So it's just like this woman with
this beautiful long hair on the show, and then I
didn't hear much from her afterwards, like was she you
know what? Was like still out there she's dancing and

(01:09:46):
she I don't. I haven't seen Darcella and quite a while,
but she was. She was a pleasure to work with
and she was just beautiful, just awesome to watch. I mean,
her dancing was just amazing, and uh, it was. I
enjoyed the experience. I enjoyed it too, because I got

(01:10:07):
a chance to be on the show quite a few
times myself. Right, those are the advantages. We would Billy
would come on and we would sing our duets. Yeah,
I love that. I always enjoyed that. Yeah. It should
also be noted that Um Casper the even even though

(01:10:27):
Jeffrey Daniels sort of gets the glory for teaching Michael
Jackson how to do the womb work movewalk, it was
it was actually Uh Casper, who was a dancer on
Solid Gold that really, you know, taught Michael the aesthetics
on how to do the moonwalk. He was also I
didn't even know that wealth of useless knowledge right now,

(01:10:53):
right now, like this moment, right now, knowledge only for
this specific moment. So I also wanted to know. I
know that you guys, Uh went went through to your

(01:11:13):
gospel phase shortly thereafter, in in the mid to late
eighties and in the nineties. I recall, I believe you
guys as the fifth dimension reunited. What was like, what
was that process uh like in reuniting the group, and
how was it there was a special moment moment I

(01:11:38):
think that would that says it all. The first time
we got back together and we started talking about we're
gonna do this reunion tour, and we said, well, first
of all, let's see where we are. And so you know,
we hadn't sung any harmonies together in many years, and

(01:11:59):
of course you know, we had gotten away from that,
so we were remembering the harmony so so well. And
so we got around the piano and they said, let's
start out with up, Up and away, which is unison
and everybody remembers that. And we started to sing what
would you like to write? Beautiful, and our voices the blend.

(01:12:25):
We all started looking at one another and saying, oh
my gosh, Bill got it like we never walked away
from each other, you know, it was it was the
same sound. It was, this is amazing, you know. It
was very um it was very emotional. And then the
Democrats started again, you know, you know, we started getting

(01:12:49):
together and doing doing jobs. But it was set up
the way we had it set up with the with
the demntion before we left. Wow, So how how long
did the reunion tour last? For? What? Do? Yeah? A
couple of years we did. We did some performances together

(01:13:09):
and then UH and Billy and I still had some
some of our duet shows that we had to do,
and Florence and Lamont and Ronald UH had two other
members in the group, and they had their performances so that,
you know, they had bookings, we had bookings. But then
we would come together and UH do some original we
we would call it the original fifth Dimension and work

(01:13:33):
for different companies and they were it was considered like
a very special occasion to have the original Fifth Dimension
that during that time, they called them corporate jobs. Yeah,
you know, we played a lot of trust me that
that still exists. It's also kind of dope that y'all
didn't agree on that whole original dimension versus the other

(01:13:56):
dimension and let them do their own things. I just
want to say it was it weird for you to
just because even way into the eighties I kept seeing,
you know, like Florence would have another line up long
after ron and and Lamont left the group. Was it
kind of weird sort of seeing at least the name

(01:14:16):
UH still carrying on without the four original members in
the group. For you guys, it was yea, you know,
to us, to the audiences. To us too, I'll say
it for you, it sounded weird to us. Too. Well,

(01:14:38):
you know, not only that we would when we would could,
we would go and see them and support them and
and be there far. Yeah okay, I see. Also we
should mention what what was it like playing Um, I'm
a big fan of the original Jamie Fox Show. Yeah
I know that. Yeah you guys, uh fancies parents parents here. Yes,

(01:15:03):
we enjoyed that so much. That was a that was
a great group of people to be working with. Producers.
Jamie was delightful on and we we got a kick
out of that. Yes, yes, you know what. Jamie is
so talented, my god. I mean just to see him
work and the stuff that comes off the top of

(01:15:24):
his head. I mean, he's he's a creator. You know,
it just comes out of him. You know. Uh, they
might need a song for a special moment in the show,
and uh so then they would say, oh, we need
a song here, and Jamie would go off somewhere and
he'd come back and with a brilliant song. Y. Yeah,

(01:15:49):
that's good. So I'll say that. Um, oh, I'm sorry,
we got we gotta mention Blackbird, what what was the
what was the sort of the idea and covering Lennon
McCartney songs for the Blackbird Project, especially in light of when,
when it was and why it was released last year

(01:16:13):
or this year? Well came out, Well, it's just earlier, yeah,
earlier this year. You recorded it last year, though, What
was the significance behind or at least the process and
in recording that that album. Well, our our producer, our
management company, we have been talking about a project. A

(01:16:37):
young man by the name of Nick Mendoza UH had
been introduced to us, and our management company thought that
he would be a wonderful producer to to work with.
And now Nick's millennial producer. Yes, so very young, but
a very how you know, interesting knowledge of the two

(01:17:01):
of them who we were voices uh our sounds and
and you know, we started talking about ideas, and we
were very concerned and troubled by what's what's been going
on in our country, and uh we felt like, if
we're going to do something, we want to do something
that speaks to what is going on right now. As

(01:17:25):
we told Nick how we felt and what we would
love to do, Nick was very very much interested because
he said, well, you know, you guys are talking about
the things that the people my age are worried about.
You know, about what's happening to our country and why,
you know, why are we so at odds and what's
the viol what is the division about? You know, it's

(01:17:48):
not young people don't know. They haven't lived what we
have lived, but they still to know what it's all about.
And we have been doing Blackbird and having Beatles Medley
and our live show, and so we were for me
with with Blackbird and what it meant because the Lenin
and McCartney wrote it as a as a as A

(01:18:11):
as A as an anthem, the civil rights anthem, you know,
and so we just like, hey, that's that's it's it's
really uh uh a movement, you know. Uh, it's a
civil rights movements where we looked at you know, because
everybody and everybody needs to know what's going on out here,

(01:18:32):
you know. So we decided to go ahead and start
doing putting Blackbird in and we saw listen to more
of the Beatles songs and started putting stories kind of
like behind these these songs like uh ticket to ride
with uh with Rosa parks Man when she wouldn't give

(01:18:53):
give up a seat on the bus and she she
she just you know, and and and and her being
going to jail and her husband waiting for her, you know,
and you don't know the story about her husband. It
was another story, you know. So black Bird is and
and and in the front of the album portrays all

(01:19:14):
of the the the people who will killed and and
and and and and just for no reason at all,
you know, just because of the color and its squeeated
a lot of division in our society. And we just
prayed at this album will be a healing project. We're

(01:19:36):
so we were so inspired and encouraged by the young
people and how they were coming together and protesting together,
you know, across racial lines, across uh, across cultural lines,
and we're saying that this is what our country needs.
We've got to come together, we've got to draw together

(01:19:57):
and make the statement understood. And her and we just
felt like we want, like you said, we wanted to
make it like a movement. That's what human rights, human
rights movement. Congratulations for another number one album on the
R and B charts. That's pretty pretty great, Pretty excited
about the response that we've been seeing because i mean,

(01:20:21):
you know, at this age, for us to be doing
this now is just amazing. It's your time that you
had a lot to do with that, with with with
fing this this uh footage. Oh yeah, just like you
created a renaissance for us, Yes you have, but we

(01:20:43):
thank you, thank you. I appreciate absolutely. No. I will
say that um probably you know one of the key
scenes that that's in the movie, UM that really touch people,
like when they when they tell me how much they
loved it, um, especially for like fellow fellow black artists

(01:21:09):
that I show it to. First of all, just watching
YouTube watch it. I couldn't have I couldn't have scripted
it better. You know, it couldn't have It couldn't have
happened more pitch perfect, note perfect than your interview portion,
especially you know, letting the sentiments be known how important

(01:21:32):
playing that festival UM was and connecting with black audiences
that otherwise might have been familiar with you guys at
the time, and how it really really touched them. And
I will say that, you know, I should be thinking
you because I mean, you know it's it's the footage

(01:21:53):
itself is magic on its own, but you guys, really
human eye is did it and really touch people's hearts
with with with your portion of of that movie. And
you know, I think you both for doing it was
just you know, we were just doing it was such

(01:22:14):
a special special what you put together was was beautiful.
I mean, that's that's the only way we can react
to it. I mean, this what comes from the hang ghost,
you know. And we were so happy for you to
win that Grand Jury Sundance at the Festival of Yes.
We were just so excited that that happens, you know,

(01:22:35):
because and your premier, this is your first director experience,
come up with such a powerful um, a powerful success
like this, and we're just so excited for you for

(01:22:56):
years and all the stars will on that. Yeah, I
asked myself that all the time. But you know, now
now is the time, Like I feel like, you know,
it's been the whole compliment. I am sitting here floor.
You did not interrupt them. You let them tell you

(01:23:17):
all tell you all, just let them. World famous for
avoiding compliments. I hate compliments. I'm sorry, good, I just
gotta take it, or I'll still tease me about it.
Thank you. Wait before I wrap up, there's there there
is one question I gotta ask, only because the sample

(01:23:37):
is so famous. I know that, uh Billy, you started
your own independent label sometime in the mid seventies and uh,
one of your clients, one of the late acts on
the label was Jimmy cast Bunch. Yeah, what what was that?
What was that experience like? Only because on that particular album,

(01:23:58):
Uh because a famous Uh well no, no, not just
because on but no Uh Kanye's uh song the first
song on Graduation good Morning's. Yeah, it's it's all. It's
Jimmy Caster's cover of I Just Want to Start by

(01:24:22):
Gino Vanelli. Right, it's but yeah, it's it's on the
label that what is Yeah, what was working with Jimmy
Caster like during that period and what made you want
to start your own label during that period? Well, it
was I've always wanted to produce and and and and

(01:24:43):
and create my whole kind of way in life and
and uh at the particular time, Jimmy Susterlinda was working
working for our company, you know, che sellers about Jimmy
and uh, and when we met him, it was like
he was like family. I mean, he was just a

(01:25:03):
regular guy loving his music, and you know, so we
just we just got into it and say let's get
visit with some music. You know, I see everything that
you hear on that album, that's that's all, Jimmy, Yeah,
it is. Well, you know you guys, I mean it
goes without seeing it. You guys are are a class act.

(01:25:23):
And I really, really, really really thank you for giving
us your time and coming on the show. And I
I just love you guys to death. I'm a genuine
fan of the group. You know, guys are an inspiration also,
especially in a time period which how you're you're such
a serious historian. Yes, that is your heart, and you

(01:25:47):
know when you meet somebody like that, you want to
share with them all the knowledge that you have to
to you know, to contribute to the to your Now
now you know, I'm not a historian. I'm just a

(01:26:11):
really really really big Billy This available coup. I thank
you guys for it, and you know much continue success. Okay,
maybe my last question is what do you want the
legacy of Billy Davis and Merlin maccou to be? Wow? Well,

(01:26:35):
you know, for me, I know, it's just that people
coming together and just being who we are to one another,
not not being putting on trying to be more than
what we are, just just just be who you are

(01:26:57):
and just people coming together on one card. You know,
if we can just do that and and and and
and and have our human rights. That would be a
legacy for me before I leave here. Wow, that's hey
we that's a mite drop right there, drop it. That's
a mic drop right there. Well, thank you very much

(01:27:18):
for doing the show. I love and appreciate you guys
on behalf of Layah and I'm paid Bill and shook A,
Steve and fon Tiggelo. This Quest Love. I cannot believe
I got to talk to Billy Davidson, Mary Coup. Thank
you very much. This is Quest Love Supreme. We'll see
you on the next proground. Yo, what's up? This is Fonte.

(01:27:42):
Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at
QLs and let us know what you think and who
should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget
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(01:28:08):
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