May 14, 2026 • 31 mins
Welcome back to Radio 831, where hosts Sanjana Basker and Tyler McCall make the case that yearning isn’t just trending—it’s a defining orientation toward life. Then they chat with author Betty Corrello to dig into what Wuthering Heights is actually doing in the canon: Is it a love story, is it camp, and what has romance inherited from Cathy and Heathcliff anyway? Plus: Sanjana gives Tyler her first homework assignment, Lisa Kleypas's Again the Magic, and Tyler comes back a changed woman.
- On yearning: Allison P. Davis’s “A Year on Our Knees” for The Cut, the movie Pillion, and the idea that lit-fic assumes everyone is cynical and jaded ℅ Mel Thomas (aka @page.melt).
- Betty Corrello is here to talk her favorite classic novel Wuthering Heights—the latest adaptation of which is now streaming on HBO. Her last banger of a romance (written under BC Dolce) is My Italian Vampire, and her next, out this October, is Back for Seconds.
- Sanj’s backlist homework for Tyler: Again the Magic by Lisa Kleypas.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hi, and welcome to the Radio eight three one podcast.
We're your hosts, Sinjonabasker and Tyler McCall, and.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We're so excited to talk everything romance, from the novels
and the tropes to the book to screen adaptations and
of course the drama of it all. You know, unpacking
what the genre says about who we are and how
we love.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Big stuff, important stuff like say, yearning, yearning.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Which has been like the subject of conversation in media lately.
There's a really wonderful article by Alison P. Davis in
New York Magazine that like captured what the year of
the year and looked like for twenty twenty five. But
now we are in twenty twenty six, work halfway through
twenty twenty six, and everyone is still talking about yearning.
(00:55):
So I guess the question is really like, what is
the status of yearning? But also so why this word?
Why are we so interested in yearning as a quality
as opposed to like any other word that we could
use to describe intimacy or desire or wanting something. Why
yearn above anything else?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I sort of feel like the thesis of Allison's piece
was that these teen oriented shows like specifically the summer
I turned pretty brought back into our lives for adults,
the idea of crushing when you're younger, and I feel
like yearning is such a big part of that. It
feels so much bigger than just oh, I have a
crush or I like somebody. Yeah, but also yearning is
(01:39):
something that is harder to do in today's digitally focused
dating landscape.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Oh totally.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I think we as a culture miss the opportunity to yearn.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Do you mean because there's like the instant gratification of
let me look at all of the available people, rather
than the distance between what is wanted and subject of wanting.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I feel like there's so little mystery.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I mean, there's a lot of mystery, as in like
what's wrong with people, but like right, there's a very.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Little mystery in that most of.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
The time, if I have a crush on somebody, I
can I don't know, go through their Instagram and like
see what they were doing in twenty fifteen, or like
I can go through.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Their Twitter, Blue Sky or Threads or whatever various.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Social media apps they have to see what thoughts they
had about whatever.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I think.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
To yearn, there's like an aspect of absence or mystery. Yeah,
but I feel like we need to bring back well.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I mean I think it's the thing of like wanting
something or someone is not a credit to the subject
of that yearning. It's something that you offer yourself. Yeah,
it's a relationship to desire that you offer yourself. You
are capable of like wanting and feeling and like seeking
is is I think as much about the person that
(02:57):
you feel that way tours as it is about your
own relationship with yourself, which is things can be so valuable,
so meaningful, even if they aren't satisfying in the way
that like our consumer society finds things satisfying. Yeah, Like
there's like a beauty to being, Like even even when
we're talking about like an object right of being Like
(03:18):
this is a designer handbag that I've like wanted for
years and years and I've saved so much money for.
And the like process of working towards this thing, like
the friction of pursuit is like as fulfilling for people
who like really love to shop as it is to
actually receive the object and like have it in your hands, Yes,
which is like the end of a relationship. All of
(03:40):
a sudden like a new relationship has been born now
that the object is in hand, but like, yeah, the
pursuit is lost, but it was beautiful too, Yeah, like worthwhile. Also,
I think that.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
There's a component to yearning that involves pain to some degree,
like a loss or a pain or like because there's
an absence, there's like the wanting is caused by an absence.
And I find there to be something beautiful and rewarding
about that feeling, right, Like all we have is being
(04:11):
human and experiencing this broad spectrum of emotions, and yearning
kind of encompasses like that broad spectrum. It's kind of
a high, like an emotional high, but it's also this
kind of pinching feeling.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
It's I love yearning.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
This is why it makes me think about Pillion too,
which yes, God, I loved that movie, to be clear,
Like for romance heads, people are happy at the end,
but it is not a happily ever after, right, Like
to be clear, But I think that that movie is
so about Callin and cultivating his own relationship to wanting
(04:46):
and desire, And like I think every day of my
life since watching that movie about the line where Colin
says that like Ray keeps him around. Ray this like
beautiful man played by Alexander Scarscard, who is like, oh
my god, he's so hot in that movie. It's like
really sick. It's like it's really kind of sick and twisted.
But Colin says that Ray keeps him around because he
(05:07):
has a particular aptitude for devotion. Yeah, oh my god,
it's so good. But I think that too speaks of like,
first of all, their relationship itself is one where Colin
is yearning even as they are together. Yes, there is
an absence, there is a distance that like makes him
more hungry, more desirous, more wanting in a way that
(05:28):
I think is really beautiful. And the like kind of
ending of it, where in like Colin and Ray spoiler
alert do not end up together, is also one where
like he has cultivated his relationship to want and it
has like fundamentally transformed him to the point that it
alters how he moves forward in the world for the better. Yes,
like the act of having wanted has like done good
(05:50):
for him.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
It's funny that you said that line, because I also
have a line that has stuck with me since I
saw it, which is Colin tells Ray that he's that
he loves him, and Ray's like, well, that's not the
point of this, yeah, And Colin says, isn't that the
point of everything?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Like isn't love the point of everything?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
And I'm like, my aart, I know, I'm so moved
by that.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I feel like, for me anyway, something about the end
of last year collectively, whatever we all experienced, yeah, in
the world, something about that for me has really framed
through that lens of like of what we're talking about,
of yearning of love, Like isn't love the point of everything?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Also, like ironic detachment is often perceived as the like
superior intellectual position, like the more rigorous intellectual position too.
And I think that like, as romance people, we've probably
encountered there's a million times in like telling people about
our interests and having them be like off put by
the like deep sincerity or clarity of fondness we have
(06:48):
for this thing. I think it exposes to me the
degree to which people see it as like intellectually less rigorous,
which I'm like, okay, I'm sure, sure, sure. But I
also I mean I think a lot about our friend
mel Yes, who's like one of the most brilliant people
we know, one of the smartest people I've ever met
my life. Yeah, truly, truly, truly. I think they said
something once about lit Thick where they were like, I
(07:11):
don't necessarily love Litvik because it assumes that everyone is
as cynical and jaded as they are, like like a
lot of these characters are. And I think about that
a lot too, in the context of yearning, which is
like such an unabashed, naked exposure to feeling that is
like almost cloying at times. Right, there are times where
I watch summary turn pretty and I'm like, oh my god,
(07:32):
I could be sick. I could be Yeah, I could
be sick like the things that he went through in that.
Therapeutically speaking, I would not touch that with a ten
foot pole.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
My professional opinion is that it's bad, but my personal
opinion is that it's really good. If we talk about
normal people, if we talk about Jane Austen, if we
talk about Wuthering Heights, yearning is also central component to.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
All of those things. Yeah, they feel more valid to
certain types of people.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
And it feels very clear to me where yearning emerges
from as like not just a trend, but as like
a true movement towards something which we may not ever reach,
you know. Yeah, as is the yearning premise.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
As is appropriate for yearning.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah yeah, but it feels useful to return to it
as an act because it shapes us as much as
it shapes the subject of yearning. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
So I mentioned Wathering Heights in Passing, but I think
we really got to dig into it, both because it's
a it's a foundational text for yearning, but also extremely
relevant to this year because we had the film adaptation
come out for Valentine's Day, for a Gallantine's Day if
you will, if you haven't seen it, I believe it's
on streaming. It's definitely video on demand. You can rent
(08:47):
it at home. That's between you and your God. For
so many people, I mean, especially in romance, it is
like a foundational text for yearning, right.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, And I mean I think it's one of those
things where, like, to be clear, not a romance novel. Yeah,
these are people who are deeply miserable by the end
of the novel. But I do think, like Austin's novels,
it's left like a real legacy within romance that merits
further exploration, and even if the entire work itself is
(09:18):
not a romance work, I do think that there are
parts of it that are deeply, deeply romantic. So I
think it'd be really exciting to like explore that further.
And to do that, We've got Buddy Corello coming on.
She's really wonderful. She is a romance author, so she
is of course well versed in the arts of yearning,
but she's also a Weuthering Heights enthusiast. Betty wrote two
(09:40):
romance novels already, Summertime Punchline and Thirty two Days in May,
and she actually just released My Italian Vampire, which was
a total banger of a paranormal romance. And she's got
a book coming out this fall with Cosmo Reads called
Back for Seconds. So on top of the fact that
she's like wonderful and charming and one of the funniest
(10:01):
people I've ever met, yeah, yeah, she's also kind of
a perfect guest for us to be talking about yearning
and Weathering Heights and romance with Betty. We're so happy
to have you here. Thank you for coming on.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Oh my god, thank you so much for having me. Guys,
I'm so happy to be here. I'm so excited to
talk about my favorite classic novel.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Obviously, many things to talk about with Weathering Heights, because
Emerald Fennel just released that, in my opinion, tragic adaptation
in February on Gallantine's Day in the Year of Our
Lord twenty twenty six, which maybe you can tell how
I feel about it. I think Tyler and I are
someone aligned on it, But I think the impetus for
this conversation is actually DMS between me and Betty about
(10:51):
how there's been a lot of debate about Weathering Heights
as a romance and it's not a romance and novels
that like shape romance as a genre versus novels that
are romance genre fiction.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
And we're always talking about.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Jane Austen, We're talking about Pride and Prejudice two thousand
and five, We're talking about the full Austin canon all
the time.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
But Weathering Heights is also something that.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Romance has inherited from, and it's the darker, messier, more obsessive,
demanding work between the two classics. What has romance inherited
from Weathering Heights? And also, I guess relatedly, do you
think of Weathering Heights as romantic?
Speaker 4 (11:32):
When I was a teenager, I thought Weathering Heights was
a romance. To me, there was nothing more indicative of
like true, everlasting love than obsession and destruction. Because I
also think about pride and prejudice a lot, because one
thing Emerald Fennel said pretty directly about weatherin Heights, she
(11:53):
was like, I adapted this based on my memories of
reading it as a teenager, which crazy, such a crazy
thing to admit it.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
I do think that.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Happens kind of frequently with the Pride and Prejudice too
when it comes to modern adaptations, because if we were
really to do a modern adaptation of pride and prejudice,
what is the actual comparison? Is a modern retelling actually
servicing the fundamental thing that's being said about class? Can
we even say it anymore? And then with Weathering Heights,
(12:23):
I'm like, okay, the incest though.
Speaker 5 (12:26):
There has been a lot of cultural interest in that too.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I'm thinking about white lotus right.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Like, yeah, that was throws throwns. Here's my issue. I'm
not a Wathering Heights apologist. I read it for the
first time, I think literally last year and I was like,
this could have been an email.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
This goes on for so long. But I think what
you're saying.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Betty is like I think if I had read it
as a teenager, when I was like, the most loving
and dramatic thing you can do is die, obviously, like
it would have hit really different, you know, like, do
you really love someone if you're not dying in the
moors for them? No, I'm not sure. Yes, my live
journal would disagree, you know, the.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Thirteen year old me that was on Tumblr and read
this book when Heathcliffe says like you say I killed you,
haunt me then and burst into tears, right, Like, that
version of me is very compelled by the idea that, like,
you can have love for someone that is so consuming
that it turns love into a fungus that you can't escape,
(13:26):
and like, does actually end up infecting and plaguing another
generation of people implicated by your love. Unfortunately, present and
past me thinks that's devastatingly romantic.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
But that and the thesis of the romance novel, which
is like hinged on the Happily ever After, those are
two different things, right right, yes, yes, no, yes, slightly incompatible.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
And I think Also, it's impossible to think about like
structural deterioration and like familial deterioration and love is rot
and not think about this book within the context of
like the racial and socio political elements of it. Really,
it's once you've like been liberal arts pilled, like you
(14:11):
start like thinking of it that way. Sixteen year old
me wasn't thinking about that. I was like thinking about Twilight,
like Twilight is really real, a very similar proposal, And
she reads wuthering heights in the book, which I don't know.
I don't want to give Stephanie Meyer too much credit,
but she was thinking with her full head on that one.
(14:33):
I don't want to draw too many comparisons, but it
is a love that is a fungus and it Destroyszela.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
No, but I mean it's that premise, right, that the
most romantic thing you can do is die. Bella dies
for love, like yes. And the reason that that like
rot doesn't quite infect them the same way is because
they're immortal, and so there isn't a sense of like
having passed. I mean, they have their like Frank and
child or whatever. But like the idea that there is
like a toxic inherent goes away when you become immortal,
(15:02):
and there is no inheritance to gave. It's just you,
forever and ever and ever. But I think the other
piece of this is that, like, for as much as
that premise is somewhat incompatible with like the containment of
genre fiction, romance, romance novels draw on Wuthering Heights in
a big way.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
And specifically, like one of the queens of.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
All of romance, like arguably Lisa Klapis her core stories
is what if Kathy and Heathcliffe could be together. In
order to.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Write that, though, you do have to deny some very
fundamental parts of the original text, and I guess that's
kind of the only way to adapt it. So as
much as I want to hate on Emerald, I'm like, well,
if you are going to adapt this for a modern artist,
do you have to take Oh my god, the fungus
(15:52):
that is, they're inbreeding. I can't believe I just said
that full sentence, But like, they're not leaving the same
ten square miles, like they are on that allotment together
and there's no other it's just them and the moors.
And so even if they weren't raised as they.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Were siblings, like it's all in the family. Yeah, you
also do talk about the elements of Weathering Heights that
I think, on top of the like seriousness and gravity
of colonial themes and the like gender themes and the
like racialized themes of this novel, it is also like
a juicy, wild, entertaining story for a classic.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Things are happening, like they're not just walking around the room,
they're slapping each other around the room. There to a
point where it's almost it's camp. I'm like, is this camp?
Did Emily Bronte invent camp?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Entirely possible?
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I do think as people are taking inspiration from Weathering
Heights and circling back to what you were saying about
the idea that it can't really exist without the content.
It didn't just fall out of the coconut tree, like
it can't exist without the context and everything that came before.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
And as.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
You're boiling it down and you're doing like a copy
of a copy of a copy of Wuthering Heights in
terms of influencing modern romance, like what are you really
left with and what are you really taking the inspiration from?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So if Jane Austen gives us romance and its like
most clean, durable adaptation gives us this like set up
for an enemy's to lovers, something a little cerebral. Why
does weathering Heights keep pulling audiences back anyway? What itch
does it scratch? That novel of manners marriage plot classic
(17:36):
cannot give us. And we've talked a little bit around this,
but like, I'm curious, what is the appeal? Why can't
we let Kathy and Heathcliffe go?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
If I read a guest, it's like the messy enemies
to lovers quote unquote vibe right, it's like, yeah, yeah,
it's the fungal love.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
The girls love mess They want fungus.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, a girl wants a man to love her so
much that he is a fungus.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Yeah, that he has a special tree he smashes his
head against.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Ladies, if you're a man, doesn't have a special tree
that he smashes his head up against because you don't
love him enough. Does he really love you if he
wanted to, he would, if he wanted to, he would
if he.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Wanted to cut a hole in the side of your
coffin and one in the side of his so that
you could hold hands in the ever after he would.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
That it is literally Heathcliff turned to Kathy one day
and was like, would you love me if I was
a worm?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
And she was like, yes, yes, matter of fact, I'll
do you one better.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
I do think when you think about Weathering Heights through
like psycho sexual and like modern kink language, it's like, yeah, Isabella,
it wants to do puppy play. Catherine is a dominatrix.
She's doming everyone. Yes, literally everyone. This is why we need.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
A real freak at the helm of a Wuthering Heights adaptation.
I agree, agreed, real freaks only.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
That's our call to action. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
What else is there to say?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Really, Betty, thank you so much for coming on and
chatting all things freakery and Weathering Heights with us. This
was perfect. I had so much fun.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I loved having that discussion so much, both because Betty
is so funny and also as somebody who came to
Wuthering Heights like a year ago. It's nice to sort
of be able to place everything in the context of
all that came before. Something that I have been wanting
to get into is fixing the holes that I have
(19:47):
in romance history. If you will just to be able
to understand that context. Like, for example, my friend Jonathan
recently asked me what the citizen Kane of the romance
genre was, and I now him a consulting fee, So
let me know, and you want to collect on that.
And I didn't know, but I knew that Songe would know,
(20:07):
because Songe is the smartest person I know when it
comes to romance generous and romance history. I really love
when I read something and I think, oh, I have
seen this a version of this fifteen more times, like
a reinterpretation of this in romance novels that I've read
that I love. And so I think that's kind of
(20:28):
the value and for me, like honestly the excitement in
digging into this backlist stuff. And so we're going to
do a segment on this podcast where Sonja gives me
homework assignments and I go and read them and then
we will discuss their relevance in the cannon. Yeah, and so, Sonda,
I want you to tee up what your very first
(20:49):
assignment to me.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Was happy to do it. My first reading assignment was
again The Magic by Lisa Kleapus, which on Goodreads has
forty eight thousand ratings. So this is like a god truly,
like this is one of the most iconic historical I mean,
Lisa Cleapis is one of the most iconic historical romance writers,
one of the most iconic romance writers period. She hasn't
(21:12):
released a book super recently, but she's got one coming
out later this year. The thing is, even if you
haven't heard of Lisa Kleypas, even if you haven't read
her work, if you've read a romance novel, chances are
you've read an author who is deeply and profoundly influenced
by Clapis. And so for me, assigning again The Magic
was about establishing the kind of reference base that has
(21:33):
like a trickle down effect, like you will see Clapis
wherever you go now that you've read her. This is
also just one of her best It's again The Magic
is the first. It's technically a prequel novel to her
iconic Wallflower series, which follows four friends who are like
wallflowers at a ball, and each book follows a different
wallflower falling in love and their friendships together as they
(21:56):
fall in love. So again, The Magic is the prequel
novel for the Sisters of the hero of the second book.
Marcus Westcliffe is the hero of the second book, and
he's attached to Lillian Bowman, who's a character who's not
introduced in this novel, but his two sisters, Olivia and Aileen,
are the fixtures of this one. And I also think
(22:19):
that this is kind of on top of sort of
teeing up this iconic series is the quintessential Claypist novel
because one of the things that I think makes Clapus
so special to me at least, is Claypus is one
of the authors who like made me a romance reader, right.
One of her biggest core stories is the idea that,
like what if Kathy and Heathcliffe stayed together, Like what
(22:41):
if they could be in love. It's not every book
that she writes, but it's at the heart of many
of the books that she writes. First of all, it
lines up really beautifully with the conversation we've just had
with Betty. But I also think that that's like formative, right,
Like it helps us understand the kinds of influences that
romance has, both looking back at classics and looking forward
at newer books in the genre that are drawing on
(23:04):
influences like Claypus to shake their stories. How did you
feel about it?
Speaker 3 (23:09):
I loved it so much.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
I'm so relieved.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
I loved it so much. Actually, when I got to
the end, I slowed down reading. Yeah, this is my
thing about I hate reading on a kindle, but I
was reading it on a kindle because it tells you
how much is left and you start being like, no,
this is too precious and it's slipping away. Yes, yeah,
I don't want this to end today. I think that
we would be dismissive and call it basically like Wuering
heides fanfick, because to me it is so clearly that like,
(23:33):
what if Kathy and Heathcliffe could have just been like
normal people?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yeah, and not insane? Way more sex than I was expecting.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Oh, these books are sexy, Clappus writes, A sexy book?
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Can I be honest?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Really was not ready. I think I always sort of
go into historicals like low key, expecting that it's not
going to be a ton of sex because of I
don't know the Bridgerton of it all.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
I don't know cool.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I mean, here's the thing, right, Like I understand why
because I think so much of as oracle, romance is
constructed around restraint and like, yes, the idea that there
are so many more social mores and taboos that like
hold people apart. The reality though, in execution, when you're
in the hands of like a really skilled writer like clapis,
it is that constraint that like ratchets the tension up
(24:16):
about four hundred percent, Like it gives you steaks on
like anything else, because all of a sudden, every touch
means about four hundred more things than like it would
in our contemporary society, where like holding hands is holding hands.
Speaker 6 (24:30):
Like right, yeah, this is violation of taboo, class inequality
made manifest, like all this other stuff is happening that
like far from actually diluting the sexual tension, like ramps
it up in a way that gives it different stakes.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Absolutely, It's one of the situations where the whole time
you're reading it, you're like, girl, just tell him, yeah, girl,
just tell him yeah about the fire, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
And your legs. He's not going to care. Yeah, But
like also you don't want like I like that tension.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
I like like this.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
It feels very real.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
It's very like, yeah, I like that Her brother at
the end sort of clocks. It as like you're such
a beautiful person that you've probably never had to consider, Yeah,
what it means to not be beautiful? Like, I love
that aspect of it. Every part of it was so
masterfully done. There wasn't any wasted space. There weren't any
moments that felt like superfluous. I loved the subplot with
(25:23):
the sister and the alcoholic American, like hello.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
So good, like that B plot Roman. That's also partially
why I wanted you to start with this one rather
than others in her backlist, because like the B plot
just as good. It's just interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
It's just to the point that, like I a little
bit was like kind of resentful that it was a
B plot. I was like, wait, I want to spend
more time with her too, I need like two hundred
more pages.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And Gideon, who is her like
alcoholic American love interest. We actually didn't do a synopsis
of this book. Premise is that like Aleen is Lady
of the Castle, her younger sister Olivia is like her
disgraced sister who like kind of got knocked up before
marriage and then her fiance died, So what would have
been otherwise respectable pregnancy then became a tragic miscarriage that
(26:09):
like alienated her from society. Aileen has had a childhood
love interest who is McKenna mc kenna, sort of Heathcliffe
stand in well Kenna McKenna, who is so angry?
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Who's so angry?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
And it's so hot?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
And he comes all the way back from America with
a specific intent of having sex with her and then
like ruining her life? Yeah, and I will bring this
up in therapy and I was immediately like, that's so hot.
When will a man be so destroyed by my love
that he tries to ruin my entire life?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
You know?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah? And the bonkers thing about Aileen is also that
she's like, okay, do it like ruin my life?
Speaker 3 (26:49):
What do I have going on? I don't care?
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Right, I thought that she's older. I love that she's
like what she's like thirty?
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Like yether.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, contextually is key.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
But and that confession at the end where she tells
him about the burn and is like, I didn't think
that you would want me.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
I didn't think that you would still want me, and
he was like, oh bet and immediately carries her to bed.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
And he's like, my brain's leaking out of my ears.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah. Literally, it's so hot. Yeah, it's very Heathcliff. Like
he just follows her like a dog, and he's so
resentful of how much he loves her.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Oh, he hates it so much because.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
He's the stable boy who was never supposed to like
fall in love with like Lady of the Castle and
then like was sent away by her because she was
protecting him. But like he feels such deep betrayal, Like
he comes back so angry and she is so guarded
for me. Like so much of romance is this like
(27:44):
theory of change of like how is it that these
people who are fixed in their ways become like shattered
by proximity to each other? Yeah, and you see it
in this like so clearly.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
It is a perfect romance novel.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And they have sex standing up in the woods.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I the tree thing really really did me in. I
was like, hell, yeah, brother, literally.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I love this.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I need like a whole Gilded Age spin off of
Aileen and McKenna in New York.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
You know what I mean, a sequel?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I mean so much.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Why are we adapting Weathering Heights again the four hundredth time?
When we could be doing again the magic.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Well, I mean I think that's the thing, right, Like
this almost like teenage lovelorn interpretation of weathering Heights that
like Fennel sets up, that thing is done about eight
hundred times better in Clippus's works. It's already It's that
thing that is like intense and pressured and like hits
(28:48):
you to your bones and still has the like incredible
crescendo of like a happily ever after and the like
love confession where like everything is okay at the end.
She's cooking with gas in this book, and oh absolutely
so much of her work and like I wish, I
wish it was on screen. I wish it was on screen.
I wish so much of her work was on screen.
(29:09):
Like just you wait the rest of the series. You're
in for something really good.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
I'm so excited. It's it truly.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
It's one of those things where it's like you finish
it and you're like, I need to read every other
thing this person has written in their entire career.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
I did that and it took me about two weeks
of being in kind of a fugue state. This was
like this was one of my first historical romance series
and it like literally altered my DNA, Like I could.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Feel that happening reading this one. I could feel it.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I'm so thrilled that you liked it.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
As far as the first homework assignment. A plus to
you for this election.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
And a plus to you and that's the show.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Call us and leave us a voicemail with your thoughts
at eight three three eight three to one love that's
eight three three eight three one five six eight three.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
If you feel hard for what you heard here, get
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Head to eight three one stories dot com to keep
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(30:28):
The Ones also get a twenty percent discount on everything
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Speaker 1 (30:35):
The Radio eight three one podcast is a production of
iHeart Podcasts, hosted by Sanjanabaskar and Tyler McCall. The show
is produced by Liz Smith and for iHeart. Our supervising
producer is Emily Meronoff special thanks to the whole iHeart
team and especially Ali Perry and Alison Kanter Graper. Our
executive producers are Claire Maser and Erica Serulo. Our music
(30:58):
is Domino by James Ryan Carr and Love Is What
You Do by Alibi.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
We'll be sharing love here again next week
Hi, and welcome to the Radio eight three one podcast.
We're your hosts, Sinjonabasker and Tyler McCall, and.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We're so excited to talk everything romance, from the novels
and the tropes to the book to screen adaptations and
of course the drama of it all. You know, unpacking
what the genre says about who we are and how
we love.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Big stuff, important stuff like say, yearning, yearning.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Which has been like the subject of conversation in media lately.
There's a really wonderful article by Alison P. Davis in
New York Magazine that like captured what the year of
the year and looked like for twenty twenty five. But
now we are in twenty twenty six, work halfway through
twenty twenty six, and everyone is still talking about yearning.
(00:55):
So I guess the question is really like, what is
the status of yearning? But also so why this word?
Why are we so interested in yearning as a quality
as opposed to like any other word that we could
use to describe intimacy or desire or wanting something. Why
yearn above anything else?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I sort of feel like the thesis of Allison's piece
was that these teen oriented shows like specifically the summer
I turned pretty brought back into our lives for adults,
the idea of crushing when you're younger, and I feel
like yearning is such a big part of that. It
feels so much bigger than just oh, I have a
crush or I like somebody. Yeah, but also yearning is
(01:39):
something that is harder to do in today's digitally focused
dating landscape.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Oh totally.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I think we as a culture miss the opportunity to yearn.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Do you mean because there's like the instant gratification of
let me look at all of the available people, rather
than the distance between what is wanted and subject of wanting.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I feel like there's so little mystery.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I mean, there's a lot of mystery, as in like
what's wrong with people, but like right, there's a very.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Little mystery in that most of.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
The time, if I have a crush on somebody, I
can I don't know, go through their Instagram and like
see what they were doing in twenty fifteen, or like
I can go through.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Their Twitter, Blue Sky or Threads or whatever various.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Social media apps they have to see what thoughts they
had about whatever.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I think.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
To yearn, there's like an aspect of absence or mystery. Yeah,
but I feel like we need to bring back well.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I mean I think it's the thing of like wanting
something or someone is not a credit to the subject
of that yearning. It's something that you offer yourself. Yeah,
it's a relationship to desire that you offer yourself. You
are capable of like wanting and feeling and like seeking
is is I think as much about the person that
(02:57):
you feel that way tours as it is about your
own relationship with yourself, which is things can be so valuable,
so meaningful, even if they aren't satisfying in the way
that like our consumer society finds things satisfying. Yeah, Like
there's like a beauty to being, Like even even when
we're talking about like an object right of being Like
(03:18):
this is a designer handbag that I've like wanted for
years and years and I've saved so much money for.
And the like process of working towards this thing, like
the friction of pursuit is like as fulfilling for people
who like really love to shop as it is to
actually receive the object and like have it in your hands, Yes,
which is like the end of a relationship. All of
(03:40):
a sudden like a new relationship has been born now
that the object is in hand, but like, yeah, the
pursuit is lost, but it was beautiful too, Yeah, like worthwhile. Also,
I think that.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
There's a component to yearning that involves pain to some degree,
like a loss or a pain or like because there's
an absence, there's like the wanting is caused by an absence.
And I find there to be something beautiful and rewarding
about that feeling, right, Like all we have is being
(04:11):
human and experiencing this broad spectrum of emotions, and yearning
kind of encompasses like that broad spectrum. It's kind of
a high, like an emotional high, but it's also this
kind of pinching feeling.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
It's I love yearning.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
This is why it makes me think about Pillion too,
which yes, God, I loved that movie, to be clear,
Like for romance heads, people are happy at the end,
but it is not a happily ever after, right, Like
to be clear, But I think that that movie is
so about Callin and cultivating his own relationship to wanting
(04:46):
and desire, And like I think every day of my
life since watching that movie about the line where Colin
says that like Ray keeps him around. Ray this like
beautiful man played by Alexander Scarscard, who is like, oh
my god, he's so hot in that movie. It's like
really sick. It's like it's really kind of sick and twisted.
But Colin says that Ray keeps him around because he
(05:07):
has a particular aptitude for devotion. Yeah, oh my god,
it's so good. But I think that too speaks of like,
first of all, their relationship itself is one where Colin
is yearning even as they are together. Yes, there is
an absence, there is a distance that like makes him
more hungry, more desirous, more wanting in a way that
(05:28):
I think is really beautiful. And the like kind of
ending of it, where in like Colin and Ray spoiler
alert do not end up together, is also one where
like he has cultivated his relationship to want and it
has like fundamentally transformed him to the point that it
alters how he moves forward in the world for the better. Yes,
like the act of having wanted has like done good
(05:50):
for him.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
It's funny that you said that line, because I also
have a line that has stuck with me since I
saw it, which is Colin tells Ray that he's that
he loves him, and Ray's like, well, that's not the
point of this, yeah, And Colin says, isn't that the
point of everything?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Like isn't love the point of everything?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
And I'm like, my aart, I know, I'm so moved
by that.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I feel like, for me anyway, something about the end
of last year collectively, whatever we all experienced, yeah, in
the world, something about that for me has really framed
through that lens of like of what we're talking about,
of yearning of love, Like isn't love the point of everything?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Also, like ironic detachment is often perceived as the like
superior intellectual position, like the more rigorous intellectual position too.
And I think that like, as romance people, we've probably
encountered there's a million times in like telling people about
our interests and having them be like off put by
the like deep sincerity or clarity of fondness we have
(06:48):
for this thing. I think it exposes to me the
degree to which people see it as like intellectually less rigorous,
which I'm like, okay, I'm sure, sure, sure. But I
also I mean I think a lot about our friend
mel Yes, who's like one of the most brilliant people
we know, one of the smartest people I've ever met
my life. Yeah, truly, truly, truly. I think they said
something once about lit Thick where they were like, I
(07:11):
don't necessarily love Litvik because it assumes that everyone is
as cynical and jaded as they are, like like a
lot of these characters are. And I think about that
a lot too, in the context of yearning, which is
like such an unabashed, naked exposure to feeling that is
like almost cloying at times. Right, there are times where
I watch summary turn pretty and I'm like, oh my god,
(07:32):
I could be sick. I could be Yeah, I could
be sick like the things that he went through in that.
Therapeutically speaking, I would not touch that with a ten
foot pole.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
My professional opinion is that it's bad, but my personal
opinion is that it's really good. If we talk about
normal people, if we talk about Jane Austen, if we
talk about Wuthering Heights, yearning is also central component to.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
All of those things. Yeah, they feel more valid to
certain types of people.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
And it feels very clear to me where yearning emerges
from as like not just a trend, but as like
a true movement towards something which we may not ever reach,
you know. Yeah, as is the yearning premise.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
As is appropriate for yearning.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah yeah, but it feels useful to return to it
as an act because it shapes us as much as
it shapes the subject of yearning. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
So I mentioned Wathering Heights in Passing, but I think
we really got to dig into it, both because it's
a it's a foundational text for yearning, but also extremely
relevant to this year because we had the film adaptation
come out for Valentine's Day, for a Gallantine's Day if
you will, if you haven't seen it, I believe it's
on streaming. It's definitely video on demand. You can rent
(08:47):
it at home. That's between you and your God. For
so many people, I mean, especially in romance, it is
like a foundational text for yearning, right.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, And I mean I think it's one of those
things where, like, to be clear, not a romance novel. Yeah,
these are people who are deeply miserable by the end
of the novel. But I do think, like Austin's novels,
it's left like a real legacy within romance that merits
further exploration, and even if the entire work itself is
(09:18):
not a romance work, I do think that there are
parts of it that are deeply, deeply romantic. So I
think it'd be really exciting to like explore that further.
And to do that, We've got Buddy Corello coming on.
She's really wonderful. She is a romance author, so she
is of course well versed in the arts of yearning,
but she's also a Weuthering Heights enthusiast. Betty wrote two
(09:40):
romance novels already, Summertime Punchline and Thirty two Days in May,
and she actually just released My Italian Vampire, which was
a total banger of a paranormal romance. And she's got
a book coming out this fall with Cosmo Reads called
Back for Seconds. So on top of the fact that
she's like wonderful and charming and one of the funniest
(10:01):
people I've ever met, yeah, yeah, she's also kind of
a perfect guest for us to be talking about yearning
and Weathering Heights and romance with Betty. We're so happy
to have you here. Thank you for coming on.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Oh my god, thank you so much for having me. Guys,
I'm so happy to be here. I'm so excited to
talk about my favorite classic novel.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Obviously, many things to talk about with Weathering Heights, because
Emerald Fennel just released that, in my opinion, tragic adaptation
in February on Gallantine's Day in the Year of Our
Lord twenty twenty six, which maybe you can tell how
I feel about it. I think Tyler and I are
someone aligned on it, But I think the impetus for
this conversation is actually DMS between me and Betty about
(10:51):
how there's been a lot of debate about Weathering Heights
as a romance and it's not a romance and novels
that like shape romance as a genre versus novels that
are romance genre fiction.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
And we're always talking about.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Jane Austen, We're talking about Pride and Prejudice two thousand
and five, We're talking about the full Austin canon all
the time.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
But Weathering Heights is also something that.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Romance has inherited from, and it's the darker, messier, more obsessive,
demanding work between the two classics. What has romance inherited
from Weathering Heights? And also, I guess relatedly, do you
think of Weathering Heights as romantic?
Speaker 4 (11:32):
When I was a teenager, I thought Weathering Heights was
a romance. To me, there was nothing more indicative of
like true, everlasting love than obsession and destruction. Because I
also think about pride and prejudice a lot, because one
thing Emerald Fennel said pretty directly about weatherin Heights, she
(11:53):
was like, I adapted this based on my memories of
reading it as a teenager, which crazy, such a crazy
thing to admit it.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
I do think that.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Happens kind of frequently with the Pride and Prejudice too
when it comes to modern adaptations, because if we were
really to do a modern adaptation of pride and prejudice,
what is the actual comparison? Is a modern retelling actually
servicing the fundamental thing that's being said about class? Can
we even say it anymore? And then with Weathering Heights,
(12:23):
I'm like, okay, the incest though.
Speaker 5 (12:26):
There has been a lot of cultural interest in that too.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I'm thinking about white lotus right.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Like, yeah, that was throws throwns. Here's my issue. I'm
not a Wathering Heights apologist. I read it for the
first time, I think literally last year and I was like,
this could have been an email.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
This goes on for so long. But I think what
you're saying.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Betty is like I think if I had read it
as a teenager, when I was like, the most loving
and dramatic thing you can do is die, obviously, like
it would have hit really different, you know, like, do
you really love someone if you're not dying in the
moors for them? No, I'm not sure. Yes, my live
journal would disagree, you know, the.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Thirteen year old me that was on Tumblr and read
this book when Heathcliffe says like you say I killed you,
haunt me then and burst into tears, right, Like, that
version of me is very compelled by the idea that, like,
you can have love for someone that is so consuming
that it turns love into a fungus that you can't escape,
(13:26):
and like, does actually end up infecting and plaguing another
generation of people implicated by your love. Unfortunately, present and
past me thinks that's devastatingly romantic.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
But that and the thesis of the romance novel, which
is like hinged on the Happily ever After, those are
two different things, right right, yes, yes, no, yes, slightly incompatible.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
And I think Also, it's impossible to think about like
structural deterioration and like familial deterioration and love is rot
and not think about this book within the context of
like the racial and socio political elements of it. Really,
it's once you've like been liberal arts pilled, like you
(14:11):
start like thinking of it that way. Sixteen year old
me wasn't thinking about that. I was like thinking about Twilight,
like Twilight is really real, a very similar proposal, And
she reads wuthering heights in the book, which I don't know.
I don't want to give Stephanie Meyer too much credit,
but she was thinking with her full head on that one.
(14:33):
I don't want to draw too many comparisons, but it
is a love that is a fungus and it Destroyszela.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
No, but I mean it's that premise, right, that the
most romantic thing you can do is die. Bella dies
for love, like yes. And the reason that that like
rot doesn't quite infect them the same way is because
they're immortal, and so there isn't a sense of like
having passed. I mean, they have their like Frank and
child or whatever. But like the idea that there is
like a toxic inherent goes away when you become immortal,
(15:02):
and there is no inheritance to gave. It's just you,
forever and ever and ever. But I think the other
piece of this is that, like, for as much as
that premise is somewhat incompatible with like the containment of
genre fiction, romance, romance novels draw on Wuthering Heights in
a big way.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
And specifically, like one of the queens of.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
All of romance, like arguably Lisa Klapis her core stories
is what if Kathy and Heathcliffe could be together. In
order to.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Write that, though, you do have to deny some very
fundamental parts of the original text, and I guess that's
kind of the only way to adapt it. So as
much as I want to hate on Emerald, I'm like, well,
if you are going to adapt this for a modern artist,
do you have to take Oh my god, the fungus
(15:52):
that is, they're inbreeding. I can't believe I just said
that full sentence, But like, they're not leaving the same
ten square miles, like they are on that allotment together
and there's no other it's just them and the moors.
And so even if they weren't raised as they.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Were siblings, like it's all in the family. Yeah, you
also do talk about the elements of Weathering Heights that
I think, on top of the like seriousness and gravity
of colonial themes and the like gender themes and the
like racialized themes of this novel, it is also like
a juicy, wild, entertaining story for a classic.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Things are happening, like they're not just walking around the room,
they're slapping each other around the room. There to a
point where it's almost it's camp. I'm like, is this camp?
Did Emily Bronte invent camp?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Entirely possible?
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I do think as people are taking inspiration from Weathering
Heights and circling back to what you were saying about
the idea that it can't really exist without the content.
It didn't just fall out of the coconut tree, like
it can't exist without the context and everything that came before.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
And as.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
You're boiling it down and you're doing like a copy
of a copy of a copy of Wuthering Heights in
terms of influencing modern romance, like what are you really
left with and what are you really taking the inspiration from?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So if Jane Austen gives us romance and its like
most clean, durable adaptation gives us this like set up
for an enemy's to lovers, something a little cerebral. Why
does weathering Heights keep pulling audiences back anyway? What itch
does it scratch? That novel of manners marriage plot classic
(17:36):
cannot give us. And we've talked a little bit around this,
but like, I'm curious, what is the appeal? Why can't
we let Kathy and Heathcliffe go?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
If I read a guest, it's like the messy enemies
to lovers quote unquote vibe right, it's like, yeah, yeah,
it's the fungal love.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
The girls love mess They want fungus.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, a girl wants a man to love her so
much that he is a fungus.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Yeah, that he has a special tree he smashes his
head against.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Ladies, if you're a man, doesn't have a special tree
that he smashes his head up against because you don't
love him enough. Does he really love you if he
wanted to, he would, if he wanted to, he would
if he.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Wanted to cut a hole in the side of your
coffin and one in the side of his so that
you could hold hands in the ever after he would.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
That it is literally Heathcliff turned to Kathy one day
and was like, would you love me if I was
a worm?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
And she was like, yes, yes, matter of fact, I'll
do you one better.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
I do think when you think about Weathering Heights through
like psycho sexual and like modern kink language, it's like, yeah, Isabella,
it wants to do puppy play. Catherine is a dominatrix.
She's doming everyone. Yes, literally everyone. This is why we need.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
A real freak at the helm of a Wuthering Heights adaptation.
I agree, agreed, real freaks only.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
That's our call to action. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
What else is there to say?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Really, Betty, thank you so much for coming on and
chatting all things freakery and Weathering Heights with us. This
was perfect. I had so much fun.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I loved having that discussion so much, both because Betty
is so funny and also as somebody who came to
Wuthering Heights like a year ago. It's nice to sort
of be able to place everything in the context of
all that came before. Something that I have been wanting
to get into is fixing the holes that I have
(19:47):
in romance history. If you will just to be able
to understand that context. Like, for example, my friend Jonathan
recently asked me what the citizen Kane of the romance
genre was, and I now him a consulting fee, So
let me know, and you want to collect on that.
And I didn't know, but I knew that Songe would know,
(20:07):
because Songe is the smartest person I know when it
comes to romance generous and romance history. I really love
when I read something and I think, oh, I have
seen this a version of this fifteen more times, like
a reinterpretation of this in romance novels that I've read
that I love. And so I think that's kind of
(20:28):
the value and for me, like honestly the excitement in
digging into this backlist stuff. And so we're going to
do a segment on this podcast where Sonja gives me
homework assignments and I go and read them and then
we will discuss their relevance in the cannon. Yeah, and so, Sonda,
I want you to tee up what your very first
(20:49):
assignment to me.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Was happy to do it. My first reading assignment was
again The Magic by Lisa Kleapus, which on Goodreads has
forty eight thousand ratings. So this is like a god truly,
like this is one of the most iconic historical I mean,
Lisa Cleapis is one of the most iconic historical romance writers,
one of the most iconic romance writers period. She hasn't
(21:12):
released a book super recently, but she's got one coming
out later this year. The thing is, even if you
haven't heard of Lisa Kleypas, even if you haven't read
her work, if you've read a romance novel, chances are
you've read an author who is deeply and profoundly influenced
by Clapis. And so for me, assigning again The Magic
was about establishing the kind of reference base that has
(21:33):
like a trickle down effect, like you will see Clapis
wherever you go now that you've read her. This is
also just one of her best It's again The Magic
is the first. It's technically a prequel novel to her
iconic Wallflower series, which follows four friends who are like
wallflowers at a ball, and each book follows a different
wallflower falling in love and their friendships together as they
(21:56):
fall in love. So again, The Magic is the prequel
novel for the Sisters of the hero of the second book.
Marcus Westcliffe is the hero of the second book, and
he's attached to Lillian Bowman, who's a character who's not
introduced in this novel, but his two sisters, Olivia and Aileen,
are the fixtures of this one. And I also think
(22:19):
that this is kind of on top of sort of
teeing up this iconic series is the quintessential Claypist novel
because one of the things that I think makes Clapus
so special to me at least, is Claypus is one
of the authors who like made me a romance reader, right.
One of her biggest core stories is the idea that,
like what if Kathy and Heathcliffe stayed together, Like what
(22:41):
if they could be in love. It's not every book
that she writes, but it's at the heart of many
of the books that she writes. First of all, it
lines up really beautifully with the conversation we've just had
with Betty. But I also think that that's like formative, right,
Like it helps us understand the kinds of influences that
romance has, both looking back at classics and looking forward
at newer books in the genre that are drawing on
(23:04):
influences like Claypus to shake their stories. How did you
feel about it?
Speaker 3 (23:09):
I loved it so much.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
I'm so relieved.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
I loved it so much. Actually, when I got to
the end, I slowed down reading. Yeah, this is my
thing about I hate reading on a kindle, but I
was reading it on a kindle because it tells you
how much is left and you start being like, no,
this is too precious and it's slipping away. Yes, yeah,
I don't want this to end today. I think that
we would be dismissive and call it basically like Wuering
heides fanfick, because to me it is so clearly that like,
(23:33):
what if Kathy and Heathcliffe could have just been like
normal people?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yeah, and not insane? Way more sex than I was expecting.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Oh, these books are sexy, Clappus writes, A sexy book?
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Can I be honest?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Really was not ready. I think I always sort of
go into historicals like low key, expecting that it's not
going to be a ton of sex because of I
don't know the Bridgerton of it all.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
I don't know cool.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I mean, here's the thing, right, Like I understand why
because I think so much of as oracle, romance is
constructed around restraint and like, yes, the idea that there
are so many more social mores and taboos that like
hold people apart. The reality though, in execution, when you're
in the hands of like a really skilled writer like clapis,
it is that constraint that like ratchets the tension up
(24:16):
about four hundred percent, Like it gives you steaks on
like anything else, because all of a sudden, every touch
means about four hundred more things than like it would
in our contemporary society, where like holding hands is holding hands.
Speaker 6 (24:30):
Like right, yeah, this is violation of taboo, class inequality
made manifest, like all this other stuff is happening that
like far from actually diluting the sexual tension, like ramps
it up in a way that gives it different stakes.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Absolutely, It's one of the situations where the whole time
you're reading it, you're like, girl, just tell him, yeah, girl,
just tell him yeah about the fire, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
And your legs. He's not going to care. Yeah, But
like also you don't want like I like that tension.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
I like like this.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
It feels very real.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
It's very like, yeah, I like that Her brother at
the end sort of clocks. It as like you're such
a beautiful person that you've probably never had to consider, Yeah,
what it means to not be beautiful? Like, I love
that aspect of it. Every part of it was so
masterfully done. There wasn't any wasted space. There weren't any
moments that felt like superfluous. I loved the subplot with
(25:23):
the sister and the alcoholic American, like hello.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
So good, like that B plot Roman. That's also partially
why I wanted you to start with this one rather
than others in her backlist, because like the B plot
just as good. It's just interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
It's just to the point that, like I a little
bit was like kind of resentful that it was a
B plot. I was like, wait, I want to spend
more time with her too, I need like two hundred
more pages.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And Gideon, who is her like
alcoholic American love interest. We actually didn't do a synopsis
of this book. Premise is that like Aleen is Lady
of the Castle, her younger sister Olivia is like her
disgraced sister who like kind of got knocked up before
marriage and then her fiance died, So what would have
been otherwise respectable pregnancy then became a tragic miscarriage that
(26:09):
like alienated her from society. Aileen has had a childhood
love interest who is McKenna mc kenna, sort of Heathcliffe
stand in well Kenna McKenna, who is so angry?
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Who's so angry?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
And it's so hot?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
And he comes all the way back from America with
a specific intent of having sex with her and then
like ruining her life? Yeah, and I will bring this
up in therapy and I was immediately like, that's so hot.
When will a man be so destroyed by my love
that he tries to ruin my entire life?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
You know?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah? And the bonkers thing about Aileen is also that
she's like, okay, do it like ruin my life?
Speaker 3 (26:49):
What do I have going on? I don't care?
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Right, I thought that she's older. I love that she's
like what she's like thirty?
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Like yether.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, contextually is key.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
But and that confession at the end where she tells
him about the burn and is like, I didn't think
that you would want me.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
I didn't think that you would still want me, and
he was like, oh bet and immediately carries her to bed.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
And he's like, my brain's leaking out of my ears.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah. Literally, it's so hot. Yeah, it's very Heathcliff. Like
he just follows her like a dog, and he's so
resentful of how much he loves her.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Oh, he hates it so much because.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
He's the stable boy who was never supposed to like
fall in love with like Lady of the Castle and
then like was sent away by her because she was
protecting him. But like he feels such deep betrayal, Like
he comes back so angry and she is so guarded
for me. Like so much of romance is this like
(27:44):
theory of change of like how is it that these
people who are fixed in their ways become like shattered
by proximity to each other? Yeah, and you see it
in this like so clearly.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
It is a perfect romance novel.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And they have sex standing up in the woods.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I the tree thing really really did me in. I
was like, hell, yeah, brother, literally.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I love this.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I need like a whole Gilded Age spin off of
Aileen and McKenna in New York.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
You know what I mean, a sequel?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I mean so much.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Why are we adapting Weathering Heights again the four hundredth time?
When we could be doing again the magic.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Well, I mean I think that's the thing, right, Like
this almost like teenage lovelorn interpretation of weathering Heights that
like Fennel sets up, that thing is done about eight
hundred times better in Clippus's works. It's already It's that
thing that is like intense and pressured and like hits
(28:48):
you to your bones and still has the like incredible
crescendo of like a happily ever after and the like
love confession where like everything is okay at the end.
She's cooking with gas in this book, and oh absolutely
so much of her work and like I wish, I
wish it was on screen. I wish it was on screen.
I wish so much of her work was on screen.
(29:09):
Like just you wait the rest of the series. You're
in for something really good.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
I'm so excited. It's it truly.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
It's one of those things where it's like you finish
it and you're like, I need to read every other
thing this person has written in their entire career.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
I did that and it took me about two weeks
of being in kind of a fugue state. This was
like this was one of my first historical romance series
and it like literally altered my DNA, Like I could.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Feel that happening reading this one. I could feel it.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I'm so thrilled that you liked it.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
As far as the first homework assignment. A plus to
you for this election.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
And a plus to you and that's the show.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Call us and leave us a voicemail with your thoughts
at eight three three eight three to one love that's
eight three three eight three one five six eight three.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
If you feel hard for what you heard here, get
episode notes delivered straight to your inbox by signing up
at eight through one stories dot substack dot com and
share your recommendations and topic ideas in the post comments.
Head to eight three one stories dot com to keep
up with eight three ones monthly read in one sitting
romance novellas, and sign up for a membership to the
Ones to get your hands on them before anyone else.
(30:28):
The Ones also get a twenty percent discount on everything
on the site, including eight three one's beloved tropats and
pleasure reading Merge.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
The Radio eight three one podcast is a production of
iHeart Podcasts, hosted by Sanjanabaskar and Tyler McCall. The show
is produced by Liz Smith and for iHeart. Our supervising
producer is Emily Meronoff special thanks to the whole iHeart
team and especially Ali Perry and Alison Kanter Graper. Our
executive producers are Claire Maser and Erica Serulo. Our music
(30:58):
is Domino by James Ryan Carr and Love Is What
You Do by Alibi.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
We'll be sharing love here again next week
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