December 19, 2023 • 26 mins
Bethenny and TikToker YouKnowNat tackle “citizen journalism” and its credibility in talking about others. This leads to a revisit of things they said about one another.
Will this cause them to find common ground or cause an even bigger rift?!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hi, Hello, Hi Bethany.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
How are you good? Where are you?
Speaker 1 (00:17):
I'm in Minnesota Meadows.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah, okay, nice? This is you know Nat. I mentioned
her incorrectly in a Dave Portnoy story on this podcast,
but I had seen her on TikTok, and I think
the first time I saw her, I wasn't really aware
or fluent on is it called citizen or citizens journalism?
(00:43):
What do people call it? Citizens or citizen?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
You know, I'm not entirely sure. I guess citizen citizen journalism.
I wasn't super familiar with like the actual word citizen
journalism until you brought it up. Actually, I'm not like
a self proclaimed journalist. I didn't start my page being
like I'm gonna report on things. I started my page
(01:08):
because I was a stay at home mom who was
like desperate to talk to an adult after singing Baby
Shark all day, and so I just started making videos
being like my kids napping and this is what I'm watching.
And so really I started just like talking about what
I was watching, and it's turned into like, you know,
reporting on things and being kind of boots on the ground,
(01:32):
and I'm learning about citizen journalism.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I guess. Interesting so I was the first person to
say that term to you. Yeah, I think so fascinating, right,
because like, oh, that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
That makes sense, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, No, it's a term I had heard, and what's interesting,
and people really love it because people don't trust journalism
as much anymore and they're h I've seen bullshit journalism
all so many times, and I've seen people be bought
and owned by different companies and then act differently and
tell stories differently. And obviously you could listen to Fox
(02:06):
and hear one thing in CNN and hear another. So
that term came to me through TikTok, like that's what
I realized it was. And to be honest, when I
first was on TikTok, like in a meaningful way, when
I saw the people with the little microphones, I thought
it was like ridiculous. I was thinking, wait, people, I
think they're journalists. But then I evolved into thinking, well,
what is a journalist or just someone who's doing research
(02:28):
and trying to get their facts straight and get sources
and report a story or mix together a bunch of
other stories and then have their own take on it.
So I realized it's not ridiculous and you're a good
example of that.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Well, thank you for saying that. Definitely, I think that
it's become such a genre because you're not worrying as
much about like are they getting paid to talk about this?
Are they getting paid to not talk about this? You
really can find a niche where you can listen to
a person that you want to hear commentation on it,
and it's usually like me, something that I just really
(03:02):
enjoy and like do for myself. I'm doing the research
because I'm following this stuff, and so you don't have
to worry about like am I telling you this because
there's a profit involved or you know, I'm just kind
of saying like, this is a crazy story that I
heard about. As well as being able to get things
out I think quicker than like official, you know, news agencies,
(03:25):
because I can pick up my phone and say, like,
did you guys know that this is going on? Yeah?
And that turns into a lot of these news agencies.
You'd be surprised how many of them are actually using
these TikTok videos to then write their whole articles.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Right, has that happened a lot? How many times does
that happen to you?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Oh, a lot, a lot. I tried to make a list,
and I have like a few top examples, but it's
happened with all of them. Cosmopolitan, Page six, Perez Hilton,
US Weekly Showbiz Today. I mean, I can go and
find my videos in these articles, but they'll refer to
me as a TikToker. So they don't need to have
your name, right, they don't have to use my name,
(04:08):
they don't have to source us.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
But why wouldn't they use your name just to if
they're saying a TikTok or what's the difference? The credibility is,
like it's not their thing, so why wouldn't they use
your name?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I don't know, I don't know. I think that it's
probably not purposeful, right, they just don't think about it, like, oh,
this is somebody who just posted a video and now
it's mine and we'll use it and write this article.
I guess where the credibility comes in is if I'm
not being if you're not saying this is her video,
then I can ever get verified for me to like
have credibility. Yeah, so that's like, yeah, the delete there.
(04:43):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Well, I have a couple of questions. One yes, to
the what you said before. It's content to the people,
which I really have learned to just you could change
your entire life based on it. You could change everything
you do. You could self publish a book, you could
never go back on, edited and produced and press, tour,
marketed television again, which is how I've sort of changed
(05:07):
my life. I didn't notice you, and I did notice
you a while back. You seem to be you know,
not you know, not caddie, enough of that to be like,
you know a little bit of like pop culture. But
but you seem to be thorough And I've noticed you,
not just recently when you specifically talked about me, but
(05:27):
even times talking about other things. And I wanted to note,
do you get paid by Are you making money? Is
this a business at all by anybody?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
No? I mean I'm in like a creator fund, do
one TikTok, so that would be like my only income,
which is like very inconsistent and like forever changing. So yeah,
as of now. No.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So all of the people that I see that are
like you, that go and they go to Bravo Connor
and they talk about it and like they're flying on
their own dime. They're not they're just getting a bigger following,
but not able to monetize it in any way.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I'm not entirely sure. So there are some bigger creators
who I think were invited to Bravocan, so I'm guessing
that they had like some accommodations. I think that there
are brands that are reaching out to some bigger kind
of journalistic people, you know, paying for their expenses to
go to events like that. But uh, I don't know.
(06:24):
I just don't know about monetizing. I don't think that
I've quite reached that limit yet.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
And that is your goalfend to be sort of a
career or you're still just having fun with it as
a mom.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Well, I'm having fun. I kind of still post my
videos thinking like nobody is going to see them, Like
that's always kind of been my vibe is like I
just say stuff like I said, I'm looking for adults
to talk too. I didn't want to be doom scrolling
on TikTok anymore, so I was like, I might as
well just like create when I have a moment to
myself and put it out there. And like I said,
(06:57):
I post videos like nobody's going to see them now,
like people that I'm talking about are seeing them. So
I don't really know where it's gonna go from here,
but it's picking up and it's super fun. And like
I said, it's something that I do to like procrastinate,
So if I could make a business of it, that
would be ideal.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
First of all, have you been on anybody else's podcast?
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Knows what I want? This is my first podcast ever,
and I am honored to be on this one. This
is awesome.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
This is a good one to be honest, that we
do pretty well, So that's exciting.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yes, this is a good first podcast.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yes, that's amazing. Okay, so hopefully you'll be able to
use that street cred. But what does it mean? So
now coming on here, do you think about like that
the people that you're talking about, like they're real people.
So I'm here, like I was looking through I didn't know,
Like I was like, oh wait a second, it's fine
because I've been talked badly about, but that you were saying,
I say crazy shit on his app and you were
like comparing me to Donald Trump back, I guess in
(07:49):
the beginning, So like were you like, oh my god,
I hope she didn't see that cringe, I'm going on
our podcast, or you didn't think of that.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I didn't think of that. I mean, I just I,
like I said, I say shit as if nobody's going
to see what I'm saying, and people seem to listen.
And I try to be like you said, you know,
you want to watch somebody that you enjoy hearing commentate it.
So I got to give it like a little bit
of my opinion and edge, but enough to like get
away with it. That's art.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, I agree. So it's called you know nat, and
I shouted you out, and I shouted you out in
the wrong name because my eyes TikTok. The writing is
so small, and I was looking down and I thought
it was I thought the whole time it was you
know that.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I'm sorry that that happens. I've done it. I get it.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
But that's a happy accident because that's how we got.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Here, exactly. Yes, blessing in disguise.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yes. So let's go over a couple of things. Okay,
So first and foremost, what do you think about uh
Ramona allegedly I think you might have been the one
that said it that she allegedly just showed up and
crashed her premiere even though she wasn't invited.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I heard that, Yeah, I saw that. So that was
a headline that I did post about. And I don't know,
I think that that's possibly true, right, I mean it
seems like a very Ramona thing to do. I was
kind of wondering if she would be involved or how
they were gonna like cut that, and like, of course
she showed up and was front and center for all
(09:17):
of them, all the.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Pictures, Kerry, It's very Ramona. Because Ramona, something happens. The
one day she says something to you and the next
day it's like it never happened. And she has a
gift of torching the kingdom and the next day acting
like it's fully intact. That's her gift. I would be
hiding in another country for a long time, like just
(09:40):
wanting this thing to rinse off, and instead you go
to a premiere and then it brings up, bubbles up
all the headlines again.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Right, everyone's gonna talk about it. I mean, that's a
thing that could happen, right if she just showed up there, Like,
who's gonna tell her, no, you can't, you gotta go.
You didn't have an invite, she wasn't that cast. It
could have happened.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Well, And I ask you if you think it's hypocritical
as a fan of these shows, that Ramona is being
held to a different standard than other people, is that happening?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
I think that Ramona has like consistency in acting this way.
So I think that, like we've seen her throughout the
years kind of treat like staff badly. She's kind of
like known for being not pleasant to people who she
maybe thinks are lower than her. And I think that
that's something that like fans truly believe. So then to
(10:42):
hear her kind of go off, it's like believable that
that's not it's edited, it's not, yes, exactly, it's not
a one off. It's not I think that's her. I
don't know her, but I think as a fan.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
So you're a and you like to do this investigative
connecting the dots. You really are like like a detective mom.
And so you were noticing that I took a TikTok
down and then you were correct in that, and I
think I said it. I said that I wanted to
do it here because sometimes I'll do something there and
(11:20):
be like or even my team here would be like
why wouldn't I put it on my podcast? This is
like this is where I live, This is my home,
and over there you're just you know, playing around. And
also more importantly than that, because I do tiktoks all
the time that I don't do here. It's a longer format.
Here we can have a conversation that breathes, so over
there you're just throwing something up and trying to like
(11:40):
get it in or not have it be too long
there because no one's gonna have the attention spent there.
That's not the store for that. So but you've clocked that,
And I want to know what you think of that.
Is that like a bad thing to do? Yeah, that
doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
No, I don't think so. I think the rule of
thumb is if you post, somebody already grabbed it. So
I've heard people say like, if you if you're gonna delete,
just leave it up because somebody's already got it.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
But it lives. But it lives right.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Right, it lives and a different platform. Yeah, No, I
think that that makes total sense. And I think that
clocking those things is a new word that I've learned
recently just about like media literacy and just being able
to like judge those I think that's just kind of
how my brain works. Like I saw, you know, I
saw people freaking out about if Raquel Levis was getting
(12:32):
paid for the interview she did with you, and it
was just so obvious to me that, like there was
some kind of transaction. Nobody is gonna like let her
do that without you know something, and you're pitching a
podcast at the end, so it just becomes like, come on,
let's connect the dots, guys, and.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I'll tell you the breaking story, the true story, because
you're the one who said that. The true story is
that I didn't really know who Raquel was. Peripherally I did.
I hadn't seen the show as as as many people
you criticized that. I didn't watch ten seasons to talk
to a person, so I didn't know who she was,
but I anecdotally knew that she had this crazy thing happened,
(13:10):
and I kept thinking, like, aren't they all drinking? Aren't
they all cheating? I've been hearing everyone she you know that,
then they're working in this bar. And I also know
the medium because I worked in it for years. And
then I said something just anecdotal about her during the
Reality Reckoning, and I think I was the only person
that ever stuck up for her, and so her representative
called me as a result. And I didn't think, to
(13:30):
be perfectly honest with you, I didn't know that she
was such a big get for the podcast. Like I
didn't think that that was a big get because to
me peripherally, that was the girl who cheated and was
in the scandal. But like, okay, so she's this pariah,
Like I just it was sort of casual, and then
once she reached out and it was like sort of
a big deal for them, like that she hadn't said
a word. I didn't know that either. I didn't know
(13:51):
that she had been like in an island. So it
was all the planet's like converging at the same time.
But they had already been talking to iHeart before before
I even knew about that they had been having a conversation.
It never came to fruition. So my conversation with her
brought it to fruition. It was like now they were
back talking about Now they were back talking about it again.
(14:12):
I thought it was a good idea and if I
wanted to possibly do it, then maybe iHeart would get
behind it. So it was like sort of all these
things converging at the same time.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
You said you were like one of the few people
kind of sticking up and showing loyalty to her, and
so for her to like feel like, oh, that's a
safe one I could go on. I'm sure that everyone
had offered her, So that totally makes sense. And that's
the things that like I wouldn't know details, no, but
I just put things together as I can. And then
some of my videos are just like, do you guys
(14:41):
think this is possible? This is what I kind of
like I said, I'm just talk to people kind of
like it's my friends or my family, Like I'm just
putting it out there and welcoming.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Well and well, and there's clickbait and I get it too.
I do it. You know, we're not sitting here putting
out clips for this podcast that aren't going to rate.
So is it? What are the things that if you
talk about, you're gonna rate?
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Bravo stuff. A lot of Bravo stuff hits Janelle with
teen Mom. That's a big story all the time. People
like to keep updated with teen Mom. A lot of
them are shows that have been on for these ten
year runs, So vander Pump Rules, Beverly Hills, Housewives, Teen Mom,
these ones where we've kind of seen the cast and
(15:25):
there's fans who have watched from the beginning, and we
feel like we've got this like longitudal study of their life.
Those are the topics that people like really get involved in,
really feel like they know the people, or have like
a parasocial relationship. So there's definitely some.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Like the Ramona you called back, some things that people
would know, like you, you're all in a relationship with
these people, so you can say to me, when Ramona
did that thing in the kitchen about Dennis, you remember it?
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah? And something about that makes I think makes people
feel like they're like kind of part of a smaller
community village, which I think so many people crave, like
if we can talk about the same people and the
same thing is going on and almost makes us feel
like we're all in the same town hanging out or you.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Know, yeah, okay. And then this is what shocked me.
First of all, recently I realized that I think the
comments on Instagram are more psychotic and hateful than TikTok,
And that's crazy because I always thought that like TikTok
to me, it's the wild wild West, Like one video
you could do, you could cough and it could get
a million views, the next one could get three views.
(16:28):
Like it's a very it's a very precarious place. But
and I guess it's across all social media. But I
find that I will think that I or someone is
being quote unquote canceled, but they're literally being renewed because
all of you guys are talking about it and it's
driving traffic and people are listening, and like you think
(16:50):
you're not you're doing something wrong, but you're doing everything right.
And there are hate pages about you. But the more
you're being hated, it's an indication that you're doing well
on this weird universe.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Right, people are talking, right, like Mikhayli.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Gate, the Misscaragate, there were at that time there were
fifty four million views on the video. Do we think
she gives a shit about a couple of days that
she was upset when Loriel is printing money and misscarat
and so she like everyone was acting like she was
getting canceled.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
And that's how I found out about her. So, like
how many followers did she gain from that scandal. I
think that that's definitely true. I think cancel culture is
kind of over. Like there's some people who have done
some pretty egregious things on the internet, which comes back
to white citizens. Journalism is important because they shouldn't be
able to hide those things. But even when these people
(17:38):
have been kind of outed, people are talking about what's
going on, they always they come back. Like Colleen Ballinger
took a couple months off, she had some involvement with
children and that kind of thing. You'd think that that
would kind of be the end of it. She's back
to family. She's back to family vlogging already.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
So yeah, and you guys are moving markets though. You
guys are moving product. You're moving product, you're driving downloads.
I mean, it's happening for real.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
That's good to know.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yeah, a lot you're moving.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I think we're definitely getting eyes and getting views and
like you said, getting people over to these podcasts that
are connecting the dots you want to hear, like what
was the answers? What did this person have to say?
And then what did the other podcast what did they
say about that in the podcast? You know, putting clips together?
I think definitely drives people to watch both people's podcasts,
(18:32):
and yeah, there's definitely a business there.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
So you were surprised that were you surprised that I
spoke out about Dave Portner because you kind of spoke
about him in a way where you think like people
are sort of scared of him, like he'll like rush
somebody with one blow, and will you like, will you
like this bitch is crazy for like going up against
that guy.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Oh no, I didn't think. I don't think you're scared
of anything. I didn't think that that was the issue
at all. I wanted to stay neutral. Oh you know,
barstool I heard. I don't know. I just I wanted
to report on that one neutrally. But I didn't think
that you would have a problem holding your own or
(19:25):
kind of saying what you felt. I mean, you had
already said it. You said it on TikTok. You said
it on your podcast like if anybody's gonna go bast
the balls, I think it's you.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
So well, No, it's funny because you said one of
my interns might have gotten it wrong. What happened was
I saw so many clips on TikTok, and they didn't
show the part part that you that I that I
saw on yours, and then I went and listened to
the whole thing. You should to give everyone perspective. There
was something that I said. I don't want to rehash
(19:55):
the whole thing, but I said something on TikTok, and
then I thought that Portnoy hadn't doubled down on it.
I thought that he kind of got a little softer,
and Natalie was like, uh, yeah he did, Yeah, he
fucking did. And I went back and listened the whole thing.
I was like, wait, right now, he did, and I
owe it to my audience here to not because they
might not have listened to any of it. They don't
even know who he is, right, so I wanted to
(20:17):
clarify to them. Oh no, yes he did double and
triple down. So here I am doubling and tripling down.
And then he went quiet, he stopped because yeah, that was.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
The end of that. But yeah, I wash clip. I
didn't see it at first. I was, you know, watched
the first half and thought, okay, that was the end
of that, and then I saw it and was like,
oh he's ser Bron. That's kind of crazy.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
No, totally he'll go up against anybody, and I know
some of the people he's gone up against. And someone
I was with yesterday in the sports world was saying, yeah,
he's quieted down with you for some reason. So he
did quiet down, And that's just fine with me, because
you know, I actually have met him, I've enjoyed him,
I've liked him. I think he's done. He's been very successful,
(20:57):
and I think that it's important to say something when
it's difficult to say something, because most people don't do that.
So I wasn't going to go come after him, and
I didn't trash him, but to say, speak up for
just women in the way that a man who has
such influence is going to speak about a woman he's
never met, especially since he himself has been up against
(21:19):
what he's called false reporting. Now you're taking all of
your information based on a edited reality show and going
to call somebody a name based on that. I thought
that that deserved a little bit of a call out.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, definitely, I think that somebody had to say it.
That was my first thought. And I think that especially
just the timing of it, when it's kind of died
down and like, let's talk about the successes of the
people on that show or something. But to like throw
out name calling, somebody had to say like that was weird,
you know, yeah, and then we can move on.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, let's talk about Did you see what I posted
about Kim and Croy? Oh?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yes I did. Yeah. I was thinking about that a lot,
what you posted, because I think that it is relatable
to so many people, you know, to see kind of
chaos and via volatility like that, and like how heartbreaking
it is for the children. So yeah, definitely feel awful
for the children, especially the young ones that are at home,
but the adult children as well, who are you know,
(22:16):
facing these kind of headlines coming out about their parents.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
To be honest, I thought about when I said, like,
pay your f and bills, because that was just like
something that I had seen in a headline, and now
that it's deeper, I can't. I can't. People should pay
their bills and not front and stunt. And I think
that's what reality television celebrates and is about, like you
don't have to have money, you just have to look
like you have money. And I find that to be problematic.
(22:40):
And the two of them have been trying to spend
in this machine and it happens. It happens with so
many of the people with all the logos and labels.
You guys think that they have money. They could be bankrupt.
They are coming on these shows to look rich, Jenshaw,
and then they think that being on the show, they're
gonna make they're going to make enough money, like what
happened with my business, which takes a lot of work
(23:03):
to make enough money to make up for the fact
that they don't really have money. So they're spending. It's like,
let me spend all my bags and to look rich
so the paycheck will catch up with there are the
deals that I'm going to get, and it doesn't really
work like that. And I think that these two were
doing that. They wanted us to all think that they
were really rich and they were probably going to through
a lot of struggles.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Right, Yeah, that was kind of what I got from
it is it looks like they were kind of keeping
up with the droneses or keeping up with the people
on reality TV and thinking that these businesses would take
off and there would be offers made and it didn't happen,
and his NFL career was done and so that wasn't
coming in and then you think about you know, they
(23:43):
want to keep They probably want to keep the home
for their children. You want your kids to stay in
the same school and you know, keeping up the life
and staying where they are and at the level they're at.
But yeah, I think it's just when we've all kind
of watched this on over years and so to see
him like on film saying like this is right, this
(24:05):
is what's happening, is wow heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
It was heartbreaking. I was the kid in a house
much crazier than that from what we hear, and it
felt like they're both feeding off of each other. They
can't afford to do anything different. They're just like probably
the only people that understand what the other person is
going through, and they probably on some sick level, love
each other hate each other. It's insane. I would love
to talk to one of them and just let them
(24:31):
like breathe and like have a conversation because I do.
I literally know what it's like to be in that
house and it's easier said than done to get out,
believe it or not. And yeah, I think they were
keeping up appearances. And that's the thing about housewives, whether
it's She by Chara or Sonya Morgan clothing or the
bags with Gretchen or you know, the hair with Erica
(24:52):
or the hair with I know what all these deals
look like, and I know how hard it is to
make real money, like to make real money on those
It is extremely hard and takes years. I mean, it
took me probably ten years to like to my shapewear
and my salad dressing that are in major stores all
you know, all over major chains, Walmart, publics, like real store.
(25:15):
Took years before you were making real real money because
you stuck to it. It was successful. You can't just
go launch hair and you know, the first day you
do sales and you do a party on TV, and like,
that's right, they're not making real money. That's not real money.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, I know. First to bring in enough to maintain that,
it's got to be an insane amount.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And well the businesses are so they can stay on
the show because you need to have stuff going on.
So it like looks like you know what I mean
if you think about.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Part of those businesses, right, So they.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
They don't really they technically they do. That's been signed,
but they don't audit it because what are you going
to go audit What did she by Charae do anymore
than I'm gonna go audit what my merch on Bravo.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
They just to toaster open me.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So but but if Sonia
ends up on the cover Forbes magazine because she sells
it to aust then they're gonna.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
They're gonna call back. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, So this is awesome.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Oh, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Awesome, Thanks all right, thank you guys.
Hi, Hello, Hi Bethany.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
How are you good? Where are you?
Speaker 1 (00:17):
I'm in Minnesota Meadows.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah, okay, nice? This is you know Nat. I mentioned
her incorrectly in a Dave Portnoy story on this podcast,
but I had seen her on TikTok, and I think
the first time I saw her, I wasn't really aware
or fluent on is it called citizen or citizens journalism?
(00:43):
What do people call it? Citizens or citizen?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
You know, I'm not entirely sure. I guess citizen citizen journalism.
I wasn't super familiar with like the actual word citizen
journalism until you brought it up. Actually, I'm not like
a self proclaimed journalist. I didn't start my page being
like I'm gonna report on things. I started my page
(01:08):
because I was a stay at home mom who was
like desperate to talk to an adult after singing Baby
Shark all day, and so I just started making videos
being like my kids napping and this is what I'm watching.
And so really I started just like talking about what
I was watching, and it's turned into like, you know,
reporting on things and being kind of boots on the ground,
(01:32):
and I'm learning about citizen journalism.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I guess. Interesting so I was the first person to
say that term to you. Yeah, I think so fascinating, right,
because like, oh, that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
That makes sense, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, No, it's a term I had heard, and what's interesting,
and people really love it because people don't trust journalism
as much anymore and they're h I've seen bullshit journalism
all so many times, and I've seen people be bought
and owned by different companies and then act differently and
tell stories differently. And obviously you could listen to Fox
(02:06):
and hear one thing in CNN and hear another. So
that term came to me through TikTok, like that's what
I realized it was. And to be honest, when I
first was on TikTok, like in a meaningful way, when
I saw the people with the little microphones, I thought
it was like ridiculous. I was thinking, wait, people, I
think they're journalists. But then I evolved into thinking, well,
what is a journalist or just someone who's doing research
(02:28):
and trying to get their facts straight and get sources
and report a story or mix together a bunch of
other stories and then have their own take on it.
So I realized it's not ridiculous and you're a good
example of that.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Well, thank you for saying that. Definitely, I think that
it's become such a genre because you're not worrying as
much about like are they getting paid to talk about this?
Are they getting paid to not talk about this? You
really can find a niche where you can listen to
a person that you want to hear commentation on it,
and it's usually like me, something that I just really
(03:02):
enjoy and like do for myself. I'm doing the research
because I'm following this stuff, and so you don't have
to worry about like am I telling you this because
there's a profit involved or you know, I'm just kind
of saying like, this is a crazy story that I
heard about. As well as being able to get things
out I think quicker than like official, you know, news agencies,
(03:25):
because I can pick up my phone and say, like,
did you guys know that this is going on? Yeah?
And that turns into a lot of these news agencies.
You'd be surprised how many of them are actually using
these TikTok videos to then write their whole articles.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Right, has that happened a lot? How many times does
that happen to you?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Oh, a lot, a lot. I tried to make a list,
and I have like a few top examples, but it's
happened with all of them. Cosmopolitan, Page six, Perez Hilton,
US Weekly Showbiz Today. I mean, I can go and
find my videos in these articles, but they'll refer to
me as a TikToker. So they don't need to have
your name, right, they don't have to use my name,
(04:08):
they don't have to source us.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
But why wouldn't they use your name just to if
they're saying a TikTok or what's the difference? The credibility is,
like it's not their thing, so why wouldn't they use
your name?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I don't know, I don't know. I think that it's
probably not purposeful, right, they just don't think about it, like, oh,
this is somebody who just posted a video and now
it's mine and we'll use it and write this article.
I guess where the credibility comes in is if I'm
not being if you're not saying this is her video,
then I can ever get verified for me to like
have credibility. Yeah, so that's like, yeah, the delete there.
(04:43):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Well, I have a couple of questions. One yes, to
the what you said before. It's content to the people,
which I really have learned to just you could change
your entire life based on it. You could change everything
you do. You could self publish a book, you could
never go back on, edited and produced and press, tour,
marketed television again, which is how I've sort of changed
(05:07):
my life. I didn't notice you, and I did notice
you a while back. You seem to be you know,
not you know, not caddie, enough of that to be like,
you know a little bit of like pop culture. But
but you seem to be thorough And I've noticed you,
not just recently when you specifically talked about me, but
(05:27):
even times talking about other things. And I wanted to note,
do you get paid by Are you making money? Is
this a business at all by anybody?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
No? I mean I'm in like a creator fund, do
one TikTok, so that would be like my only income,
which is like very inconsistent and like forever changing. So yeah,
as of now. No.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So all of the people that I see that are
like you, that go and they go to Bravo Connor
and they talk about it and like they're flying on
their own dime. They're not they're just getting a bigger following,
but not able to monetize it in any way.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I'm not entirely sure. So there are some bigger creators
who I think were invited to Bravocan, so I'm guessing
that they had like some accommodations. I think that there
are brands that are reaching out to some bigger kind
of journalistic people, you know, paying for their expenses to
go to events like that. But uh, I don't know.
(06:24):
I just don't know about monetizing. I don't think that
I've quite reached that limit yet.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
And that is your goalfend to be sort of a
career or you're still just having fun with it as
a mom.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Well, I'm having fun. I kind of still post my
videos thinking like nobody is going to see them, Like
that's always kind of been my vibe is like I
just say stuff like I said, I'm looking for adults
to talk too. I didn't want to be doom scrolling
on TikTok anymore, so I was like, I might as
well just like create when I have a moment to
myself and put it out there. And like I said,
(06:57):
I post videos like nobody's going to see them now,
like people that I'm talking about are seeing them. So
I don't really know where it's gonna go from here,
but it's picking up and it's super fun. And like
I said, it's something that I do to like procrastinate,
So if I could make a business of it, that
would be ideal.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
First of all, have you been on anybody else's podcast?
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Knows what I want? This is my first podcast ever,
and I am honored to be on this one. This
is awesome.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
This is a good one to be honest, that we
do pretty well, So that's exciting.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yes, this is a good first podcast.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yes, that's amazing. Okay, so hopefully you'll be able to
use that street cred. But what does it mean? So
now coming on here, do you think about like that
the people that you're talking about, like they're real people.
So I'm here, like I was looking through I didn't know,
Like I was like, oh wait a second, it's fine
because I've been talked badly about, but that you were saying,
I say crazy shit on his app and you were
like comparing me to Donald Trump back, I guess in
(07:49):
the beginning, So like were you like, oh my god,
I hope she didn't see that cringe, I'm going on
our podcast, or you didn't think of that.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I didn't think of that. I mean, I just I,
like I said, I say shit as if nobody's going
to see what I'm saying, and people seem to listen.
And I try to be like you said, you know,
you want to watch somebody that you enjoy hearing commentate it.
So I got to give it like a little bit
of my opinion and edge, but enough to like get
away with it. That's art.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, I agree. So it's called you know nat, and
I shouted you out, and I shouted you out in
the wrong name because my eyes TikTok. The writing is
so small, and I was looking down and I thought
it was I thought the whole time it was you
know that.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I'm sorry that that happens. I've done it. I get it.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
But that's a happy accident because that's how we got.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Here, exactly. Yes, blessing in disguise.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yes. So let's go over a couple of things. Okay,
So first and foremost, what do you think about uh
Ramona allegedly I think you might have been the one
that said it that she allegedly just showed up and
crashed her premiere even though she wasn't invited.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I heard that, Yeah, I saw that. So that was
a headline that I did post about. And I don't know,
I think that that's possibly true, right, I mean it
seems like a very Ramona thing to do. I was
kind of wondering if she would be involved or how
they were gonna like cut that, and like, of course
she showed up and was front and center for all
(09:17):
of them, all the.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Pictures, Kerry, It's very Ramona. Because Ramona, something happens. The
one day she says something to you and the next
day it's like it never happened. And she has a
gift of torching the kingdom and the next day acting
like it's fully intact. That's her gift. I would be
hiding in another country for a long time, like just
(09:40):
wanting this thing to rinse off, and instead you go
to a premiere and then it brings up, bubbles up
all the headlines again.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Right, everyone's gonna talk about it. I mean, that's a
thing that could happen, right if she just showed up there, Like,
who's gonna tell her, no, you can't, you gotta go.
You didn't have an invite, she wasn't that cast. It
could have happened.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Well, And I ask you if you think it's hypocritical
as a fan of these shows, that Ramona is being
held to a different standard than other people, is that happening?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
I think that Ramona has like consistency in acting this way.
So I think that, like we've seen her throughout the
years kind of treat like staff badly. She's kind of
like known for being not pleasant to people who she
maybe thinks are lower than her. And I think that
that's something that like fans truly believe. So then to
(10:42):
hear her kind of go off, it's like believable that
that's not it's edited, it's not, yes, exactly, it's not
a one off. It's not I think that's her. I
don't know her, but I think as a fan.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
So you're a and you like to do this investigative
connecting the dots. You really are like like a detective mom.
And so you were noticing that I took a TikTok
down and then you were correct in that, and I
think I said it. I said that I wanted to
do it here because sometimes I'll do something there and
(11:20):
be like or even my team here would be like
why wouldn't I put it on my podcast? This is
like this is where I live, This is my home,
and over there you're just you know, playing around. And
also more importantly than that, because I do tiktoks all
the time that I don't do here. It's a longer format.
Here we can have a conversation that breathes, so over
there you're just throwing something up and trying to like
(11:40):
get it in or not have it be too long
there because no one's gonna have the attention spent there.
That's not the store for that. So but you've clocked that,
And I want to know what you think of that.
Is that like a bad thing to do? Yeah, that
doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
No, I don't think so. I think the rule of
thumb is if you post, somebody already grabbed it. So
I've heard people say like, if you if you're gonna delete,
just leave it up because somebody's already got it.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
But it lives. But it lives right.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Right, it lives and a different platform. Yeah, No, I
think that that makes total sense. And I think that
clocking those things is a new word that I've learned
recently just about like media literacy and just being able
to like judge those I think that's just kind of
how my brain works. Like I saw, you know, I
saw people freaking out about if Raquel Levis was getting
(12:32):
paid for the interview she did with you, and it
was just so obvious to me that, like there was
some kind of transaction. Nobody is gonna like let her
do that without you know something, and you're pitching a
podcast at the end, so it just becomes like, come on,
let's connect the dots, guys, and.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I'll tell you the breaking story, the true story, because
you're the one who said that. The true story is
that I didn't really know who Raquel was. Peripherally I did.
I hadn't seen the show as as as many people
you criticized that. I didn't watch ten seasons to talk
to a person, so I didn't know who she was,
but I anecdotally knew that she had this crazy thing happened,
(13:10):
and I kept thinking, like, aren't they all drinking? Aren't
they all cheating? I've been hearing everyone she you know that,
then they're working in this bar. And I also know
the medium because I worked in it for years. And
then I said something just anecdotal about her during the
Reality Reckoning, and I think I was the only person
that ever stuck up for her, and so her representative
called me as a result. And I didn't think, to
(13:30):
be perfectly honest with you, I didn't know that she
was such a big get for the podcast. Like I
didn't think that that was a big get because to
me peripherally, that was the girl who cheated and was
in the scandal. But like, okay, so she's this pariah,
Like I just it was sort of casual, and then
once she reached out and it was like sort of
a big deal for them, like that she hadn't said
a word. I didn't know that either. I didn't know
(13:51):
that she had been like in an island. So it
was all the planet's like converging at the same time.
But they had already been talking to iHeart before before
I even knew about that they had been having a conversation.
It never came to fruition. So my conversation with her
brought it to fruition. It was like now they were
back talking about Now they were back talking about it again.
(14:12):
I thought it was a good idea and if I
wanted to possibly do it, then maybe iHeart would get
behind it. So it was like sort of all these
things converging at the same time.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
You said you were like one of the few people
kind of sticking up and showing loyalty to her, and
so for her to like feel like, oh, that's a
safe one I could go on. I'm sure that everyone
had offered her, So that totally makes sense. And that's
the things that like I wouldn't know details, no, but
I just put things together as I can. And then
some of my videos are just like, do you guys
(14:41):
think this is possible? This is what I kind of
like I said, I'm just talk to people kind of
like it's my friends or my family, Like I'm just
putting it out there and welcoming.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Well and well, and there's clickbait and I get it too.
I do it. You know, we're not sitting here putting
out clips for this podcast that aren't going to rate.
So is it? What are the things that if you
talk about, you're gonna rate?
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Bravo stuff. A lot of Bravo stuff hits Janelle with
teen Mom. That's a big story all the time. People
like to keep updated with teen Mom. A lot of
them are shows that have been on for these ten
year runs, So vander Pump Rules, Beverly Hills, Housewives, Teen Mom,
these ones where we've kind of seen the cast and
(15:25):
there's fans who have watched from the beginning, and we
feel like we've got this like longitudal study of their life.
Those are the topics that people like really get involved in,
really feel like they know the people, or have like
a parasocial relationship. So there's definitely some.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Like the Ramona you called back, some things that people
would know, like you, you're all in a relationship with
these people, so you can say to me, when Ramona
did that thing in the kitchen about Dennis, you remember it?
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah? And something about that makes I think makes people
feel like they're like kind of part of a smaller
community village, which I think so many people crave, like
if we can talk about the same people and the
same thing is going on and almost makes us feel
like we're all in the same town hanging out or you.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Know, yeah, okay. And then this is what shocked me.
First of all, recently I realized that I think the
comments on Instagram are more psychotic and hateful than TikTok,
And that's crazy because I always thought that like TikTok
to me, it's the wild wild West, Like one video
you could do, you could cough and it could get
a million views, the next one could get three views.
(16:28):
Like it's a very it's a very precarious place. But
and I guess it's across all social media. But I
find that I will think that I or someone is
being quote unquote canceled, but they're literally being renewed because
all of you guys are talking about it and it's
driving traffic and people are listening, and like you think
(16:50):
you're not you're doing something wrong, but you're doing everything right.
And there are hate pages about you. But the more
you're being hated, it's an indication that you're doing well
on this weird universe.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Right, people are talking, right, like Mikhayli.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Gate, the Misscaragate, there were at that time there were
fifty four million views on the video. Do we think
she gives a shit about a couple of days that
she was upset when Loriel is printing money and misscarat
and so she like everyone was acting like she was
getting canceled.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
And that's how I found out about her. So, like
how many followers did she gain from that scandal. I
think that that's definitely true. I think cancel culture is
kind of over. Like there's some people who have done
some pretty egregious things on the internet, which comes back
to white citizens. Journalism is important because they shouldn't be
able to hide those things. But even when these people
(17:38):
have been kind of outed, people are talking about what's
going on, they always they come back. Like Colleen Ballinger
took a couple months off, she had some involvement with
children and that kind of thing. You'd think that that
would kind of be the end of it. She's back
to family. She's back to family vlogging already.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
So yeah, and you guys are moving markets though. You
guys are moving product. You're moving product, you're driving downloads.
I mean, it's happening for real.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
That's good to know.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yeah, a lot you're moving.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I think we're definitely getting eyes and getting views and
like you said, getting people over to these podcasts that
are connecting the dots you want to hear, like what
was the answers? What did this person have to say?
And then what did the other podcast what did they
say about that in the podcast? You know, putting clips together?
I think definitely drives people to watch both people's podcasts,
(18:32):
and yeah, there's definitely a business there.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
So you were surprised that were you surprised that I
spoke out about Dave Portner because you kind of spoke
about him in a way where you think like people
are sort of scared of him, like he'll like rush
somebody with one blow, and will you like, will you
like this bitch is crazy for like going up against
that guy.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Oh no, I didn't think. I don't think you're scared
of anything. I didn't think that that was the issue
at all. I wanted to stay neutral. Oh you know,
barstool I heard. I don't know. I just I wanted
to report on that one neutrally. But I didn't think
that you would have a problem holding your own or
(19:25):
kind of saying what you felt. I mean, you had
already said it. You said it on TikTok. You said
it on your podcast like if anybody's gonna go bast
the balls, I think it's you.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
So well, No, it's funny because you said one of
my interns might have gotten it wrong. What happened was
I saw so many clips on TikTok, and they didn't
show the part part that you that I that I
saw on yours, and then I went and listened to
the whole thing. You should to give everyone perspective. There
was something that I said. I don't want to rehash
(19:55):
the whole thing, but I said something on TikTok, and
then I thought that Portnoy hadn't doubled down on it.
I thought that he kind of got a little softer,
and Natalie was like, uh, yeah he did, Yeah, he
fucking did. And I went back and listened the whole thing.
I was like, wait, right now, he did, and I
owe it to my audience here to not because they
might not have listened to any of it. They don't
even know who he is, right, so I wanted to
(20:17):
clarify to them. Oh no, yes he did double and
triple down. So here I am doubling and tripling down.
And then he went quiet, he stopped because yeah, that was.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
The end of that. But yeah, I wash clip. I
didn't see it at first. I was, you know, watched
the first half and thought, okay, that was the end
of that, and then I saw it and was like,
oh he's ser Bron. That's kind of crazy.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
No, totally he'll go up against anybody, and I know
some of the people he's gone up against. And someone
I was with yesterday in the sports world was saying, yeah,
he's quieted down with you for some reason. So he
did quiet down, And that's just fine with me, because
you know, I actually have met him, I've enjoyed him,
I've liked him. I think he's done. He's been very successful,
(20:57):
and I think that it's important to say something when
it's difficult to say something, because most people don't do that.
So I wasn't going to go come after him, and
I didn't trash him, but to say, speak up for
just women in the way that a man who has
such influence is going to speak about a woman he's
never met, especially since he himself has been up against
(21:19):
what he's called false reporting. Now you're taking all of
your information based on a edited reality show and going
to call somebody a name based on that. I thought
that that deserved a little bit of a call out.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, definitely, I think that somebody had to say it.
That was my first thought. And I think that especially
just the timing of it, when it's kind of died
down and like, let's talk about the successes of the
people on that show or something. But to like throw
out name calling, somebody had to say like that was weird,
you know, yeah, and then we can move on.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, let's talk about Did you see what I posted
about Kim and Croy? Oh?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yes I did. Yeah. I was thinking about that a lot,
what you posted, because I think that it is relatable
to so many people, you know, to see kind of
chaos and via volatility like that, and like how heartbreaking
it is for the children. So yeah, definitely feel awful
for the children, especially the young ones that are at home,
but the adult children as well, who are you know,
(22:16):
facing these kind of headlines coming out about their parents.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
To be honest, I thought about when I said, like,
pay your f and bills, because that was just like
something that I had seen in a headline, and now
that it's deeper, I can't. I can't. People should pay
their bills and not front and stunt. And I think
that's what reality television celebrates and is about, like you
don't have to have money, you just have to look
like you have money. And I find that to be problematic.
(22:40):
And the two of them have been trying to spend
in this machine and it happens. It happens with so
many of the people with all the logos and labels.
You guys think that they have money. They could be bankrupt.
They are coming on these shows to look rich, Jenshaw,
and then they think that being on the show, they're
gonna make they're going to make enough money, like what
happened with my business, which takes a lot of work
(23:03):
to make enough money to make up for the fact
that they don't really have money. So they're spending. It's like,
let me spend all my bags and to look rich
so the paycheck will catch up with there are the
deals that I'm going to get, and it doesn't really
work like that. And I think that these two were
doing that. They wanted us to all think that they
were really rich and they were probably going to through
a lot of struggles.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Right, Yeah, that was kind of what I got from
it is it looks like they were kind of keeping
up with the droneses or keeping up with the people
on reality TV and thinking that these businesses would take
off and there would be offers made and it didn't happen,
and his NFL career was done and so that wasn't
coming in and then you think about you know, they
(23:43):
want to keep They probably want to keep the home
for their children. You want your kids to stay in
the same school and you know, keeping up the life
and staying where they are and at the level they're at.
But yeah, I think it's just when we've all kind
of watched this on over years and so to see
him like on film saying like this is right, this
(24:05):
is what's happening, is wow heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
It was heartbreaking. I was the kid in a house
much crazier than that from what we hear, and it
felt like they're both feeding off of each other. They
can't afford to do anything different. They're just like probably
the only people that understand what the other person is
going through, and they probably on some sick level, love
each other hate each other. It's insane. I would love
to talk to one of them and just let them
(24:31):
like breathe and like have a conversation because I do.
I literally know what it's like to be in that
house and it's easier said than done to get out,
believe it or not. And yeah, I think they were
keeping up appearances. And that's the thing about housewives, whether
it's She by Chara or Sonya Morgan clothing or the
bags with Gretchen or you know, the hair with Erica
(24:52):
or the hair with I know what all these deals
look like, and I know how hard it is to
make real money, like to make real money on those
It is extremely hard and takes years. I mean, it
took me probably ten years to like to my shapewear
and my salad dressing that are in major stores all
you know, all over major chains, Walmart, publics, like real store.
(25:15):
Took years before you were making real real money because
you stuck to it. It was successful. You can't just
go launch hair and you know, the first day you
do sales and you do a party on TV, and like,
that's right, they're not making real money. That's not real money.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, I know. First to bring in enough to maintain that,
it's got to be an insane amount.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And well the businesses are so they can stay on
the show because you need to have stuff going on.
So it like looks like you know what I mean
if you think about.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Part of those businesses, right, So they.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
They don't really they technically they do. That's been signed,
but they don't audit it because what are you going
to go audit What did she by Charae do anymore
than I'm gonna go audit what my merch on Bravo.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
They just to toaster open me.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So but but if Sonia
ends up on the cover Forbes magazine because she sells
it to aust then they're gonna.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
They're gonna call back. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, So this is awesome.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Oh, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Awesome, Thanks all right, thank you guys.
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