October 15, 2024 • 33 mins
In a set of riveting interviews with a determined high school principal and an NFL star, Calais Campbell, Akilah gets schooled on the successful process that changed the Denver South High School Rebels into the Ravens.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
My older has gone on overlanding Rene.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Ninth Planet Audio dot Com.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
We're overlanding, You're no landing.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Over Okay, we're starting to really build a case here.
We know why schools are called rebels, we know why
it's bad. We know so much about the history of
our country of desegregation. We've seen other people try to
change the Boone County High School Rebels before and fail,
And we know how important a mascot really is, not
(00:33):
just for fun, but for a sense of real identity
and pride. But now we need to know how to
do it. We've gotten so little direction on what to
do next because no one at Boone is a champion
in this fight yet, so we knew we'd need to
talk to a school, a school that used to be
one of the over two hundred rebels in America and
made the change on purpose for the right reasons.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I would love to talk about this process because it
was in tech for sure.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Meet Bobby Thomas, the principal at South High School in Denver, Colorado.
His school successfully changed from the rebels in twenty twenty two.
And this happened because Bobby is an example of the
right person at the right place, at the right time.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I'll never forget like being so happy and thankful and
stepping out in the hallways and seeing just it looked like,
you know, a world market with students wearing his jobs
and you know, you name it, everything you could think of,
and it just brought me joy. But then over time,
just trying to see the branding and walking in every
(01:39):
day and seeing rebels each and every day, it bothered
me as a leader of color.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Here's what I mean about right person at the right time.
Bobby is from Denver, so he's not an outsider. His father,
who was black, was a landscaper and janitor, and his mother,
who is Hispanic, cleaned houses. He played college football at
Las Forest College, so he knows the value of athletics
and team building. He transferred to Metropolitan State University and
earned a bachelor's degree in history. Okay, so we've got
(02:09):
a guy who gets race, athletics, and history. Then he
earned his master's degree in special education from the University
of Colorado at Denver, so now we can add education
to his list of experiences and interests. With all that
life experience and education, Bobby walked into South Denver High
and was able to look around with fresh eyes, and
what he saw wasn't just the current students from all
(02:31):
walks of life at Denver South, but the history of
the Confederate imagery that used to be at the school
as well.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
And the more and more I started seeing things and
looking at the museums and talking to alumni. Your books
had the Confederate flag, the mascot was Johnny Red, and
the songs they used to play, you know when the
football team scored touchdowns was Confederate songs that supported the Confederacy.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
While all those things were in the past at Denver South,
one thing wasn't rebel name sound familiar. When Bobby Thomas
proposed a name change at Denver South, he was contending
with over one hundred and thirty years of history. South
High Schools opened in eighteen ninety three and is one
of four original high schools in Denver. The other three
are East, North, and West. When Denver Public Schools named
(03:18):
its four cardinal direction in the high schools, each took
a mascot and imagery associated with that direction. North was
the Vikings, East our Angels, and West took the cowboy
as its mascot, and South went with the Confederacy. This
goes way back further than brownbe Board of Education. This
is in the nineteen twenties, back when mascots were actual dogs.
(03:41):
That's the kind of entrenched history Bobby tackled.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
And so I'm like, now's the best time to do this.
There's opportunities. Is a leader that you choose hills that
you want to die on, And I said, this is
going to be the one because I need to make
a difference for me showing up every day in my
skin and who I am, and for my own kids,
(04:05):
but also for all of the students and staff in
the community that.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
We serve a hill to die on. That's leadership. Choosing
a policy change, a culture change, not because it is easy,
but because it is right. Today. You're going to go
step by step to see exactly what it takes to
get rebel taken from a historical school, I was a lady.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Rebel, Like, what does that even need?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
The Boone County Rebels will stay the Boone County Rebels
with the image of right here in black and white
and friends.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
In bigger than a flag or mascot.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
Anytime you're trying to mess with tradition, you get to
be ready for a serious back crash.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
From Ninth Planet Audio. I'm Akuila Hughes and this is
Rebel Spirit episode seven, Denver South. From Spencer experience with
the petition. We know that a one and done approach
does not stick for anyone else out there who's listening
to this episode For a step by step guide of
how to change a mascot, Bobby is going to break
(05:10):
it down for us. Step one, coalition build.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I started one on one meet with them individually, and
then next the next meeting would be me with two
of them together, then three of them together, and then
I would start to build an alliance that way. Because
I knew if I could just get a critical mass
of individuals that supported this and they understood the true
why they could spread the word in the community. I
(05:40):
started to reach out to the alumni group, got them
on board. They used to have a newsletter that went
out that's still in twenty twenty one, was called the Confederacy.
I started talking to important alumni, different types of groups
in the community, city council just to get on board.
So I convened a committee of students of alumni of
all these type of individuals to give history of South
(06:04):
and then I just I made it about me and
my journey in leadership, saying I love this place, I
love this community. It's hard to lead knowing the history
around us and what it stood for and where we
are now, where we're trying to go, I need to
really make sure I have district level support. So there
were specific board members that were definitely on board. We
(06:25):
had to get buy in because, like I said, I
had alumni represented and they weren't bought into why are
we going to do this? Like this is not what
we're about. And so having specific student groups where students
spoke their truth change some of the alumni perspective on
who they are today.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
With a coalition behind him, Bobby knew that the next
thing was to offer an alternative. If not the rebels,
then what when we come back. We're going to dive
into Step two design. In our last episode we talked
about how nebulous it is to actually pick the next mascot.
If South High isn't the rebel they step two design.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I brought in a company, a branding and marketing company,
where like, if we're going to do this, we need
to do this right. We need to have specific logos,
we need to have specific branding, we need color schemes,
like all of these things. So they kind of led
some of the facilitation in the marketing of it. Let's
come up with ideas and thoughts and so we have
(07:24):
all of these options, from the yeties to I mean,
and there's gargoyles outside of the building. We have a
lot of geese around and they want to be the
fighting geese and like all these different things, but also
something that one hundred years, two hundred, five hundred years,
it's going to be something that's not going to offend
a specific group.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Bobby and his team had narrowed their choices down and
we're actually heading towards endorsing the Royals, the same name
that you'll remember from the last episode Tyris's quartz Hill
High changed too. But then at the last second something
else flew in.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
We know we're going to be the Ravens. Actually, yeah,
we were going to be the Royals. Yeah, And so
it was I mean, the Ravens came about probably the last,
the last bid of this because we really were moving
forward kind of with the Royals, and so after this
whole process we determined the raven We did a lot
of research around the Raven. They're highly intelligent. We found
(08:23):
videos and research that they could actually speak. They're strong
by themselves, but also they take care of one another.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
There's another thing that the Raven's name had going for
it that you wouldn't know unless you were there. At
Denver South, our producer Dan found himself staying less than
a mile away this spring.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I am standing outside Denver South High School right now.
It's late March. That was a big snow yesterday, but
I'm walking up. It is spring break, so there are
no students around.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Dan crunched through the icy snow as he made his
way around the school's park like campus.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
The building is beauty.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
There's just these large towers, gargoyles. Oh, those are the
gargoyles that they were gonna name it after. There's a
big gargoyle at the kind of apex of this roof.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Dan walked across campus, punctuated with Ravens banners and was
taken by how beautiful it all was.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
So Denver South is actually situated at the very end
of Washington Park, which is a very large city park.
I think there's like science museums and stuff like that
in Washington Park. The kind of terminus of Washington Park
is actually the high school.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
So the high school is on this kind of really
beautiful grounds.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
But it wasn't until he made his way back to
his car, the only one in the school's vast parking lot,
that the real reason behind the school's name became apparent.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Like all of Denver, that's a crow behind me, not
a raven. Maybe it is a raven. Actually, now that
I think about it, there are a raven and Denver
not crows. So there you go, there are actually ravens
in the parking lot. Go see if I can get
a photo.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Look around Denver South High School and you see these intelligent, independent,
caring birds everywhere. Sometimes the most obvious choice is all
around you. It just takes a moment to realize it.
Once they did, the rest fell into place.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
So we thought about all of those things like historical
cheers and chants and so should have been a rebel before?
And it was easy to say now to switch it
and say should have been a raven. Economy of language.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
With the name said, it was time for step three funding.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
So I did a cost analysis the amount of money
that it took to make a change like this. So
just for the athletic components, and I said, we have
eighteen hundred students at the time, twenty three different programs.
It was over one hundred thousand dollars. Just inm We
had our floor in the gymnasium was a rebel that
(11:06):
had to get switched out. That was another fifty two
thousand dollars to be refinished.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, redoing all the floors, finding a company that has
done this before, but just being very strategic on the
things that you have to change because you can't do
at all.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Like the order of operations.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
We just can't. Yeah, And this is where Kalais Campbell
came in, who is a famous alumni.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Famous is an understatement. Kalais Campbell is an NFL All
star who graduated from South High School in two thousand
and four, and over the last twenty years he has
had a phenomenal college and NFL career as a defensive end.
After graduating from South, Kalais went to the University of Miami,
where he played for three years before being drafted to
the Arizona Cardinals in two thousand and eight, where he
(11:54):
helped the team reach the Super Bowl for the first
time in their history. He remained at the car for
another nine years before joining the Jacksonville Jaguars in twenty seventeen.
He played three seasons in Jacksonville before joining the Baltimore Ravens,
Yes the Ravens in twenty twenty in the Atlanta Falcons
in twenty twenty three. This summer, he announced that he
(12:14):
was going back to Miami, where he'd gone to college,
to play for the Dolphins at thirty eight. But Kalaias
isn't just good at football. He's also a good person.
Ever since he went pro, Kalaiis has made giving back
a priority. When starting out in Arizona, he'd give away
hundreds of Thanksgiving meals to families in need. For the
last fifteen years, he's held Christmas with Kalais, where he
(12:36):
sponsors holiday shopping sprees for local kids. He created an
endowed scholarship for defensive linemen with a one point six
million dollar gift to the University of Miami. When the
pandemic hit while he was in Baltimore, he gave two
hundred thousand dollars to help support struggling black owned businesses
and twenty grand of families to help cover their bills.
There's the one hundred Sack give Back, where he honored
(12:56):
his one hundredth professional sack by giving one hundred thousand
dollars to teach around the country. The list could go
on for a long time. Kalais's giving is extensive and generous,
and in twenty nineteen, it earned him the NFL's Walter
Payton Man of the Year Award, the league's top honor
to a player to recognize their commitment to philanthropy and community.
(13:17):
In giving him the award, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said,
Kalaiis Campbell's impact extends far beyond the field, in the
communities throughout Phoenix, Jacksonville, and beyond. One of those places
was back home at Denver South.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I didn't know him. I'd only started at the school
two years prior, putting me in connection with him through
somebody else that actually knew him. That's how the conversation started.
He was talking to former teachers. Usually at that point
it's like talking to agents, talk to my people, like
those type of situations, but he actually had personal contacts
(13:55):
with people in the South community that were still there.
You know, we needed something our current kids and he
stepped up to the plate, and.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
I remember talking to you know, the point of contact
I talked to the most was he was my old
basketball coach, but he became a.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Flight director for South ladies and gentlemen, Kalais Campbell, and I.
Speaker 6 (14:13):
Remember talking to him about it, you know, probably like
my second or third year in the NFL. So this
is probably, you know, thirteen and fourteen years ago.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
You heard that correctly. Kaleis Campbell has been talking with
people at Denver South about the Rebel name since just
a few years in his long career in the NFL.
In fact, he made sure to mention it any chance
he could.
Speaker 6 (14:33):
Usually when I've gone back to the school, you know,
you're with the higher ups. You know, you're with the
people who can who have the fluence, and so you know,
I mean, I've made a point to say something every time,
like it's hard to take pride to school that you know,
represents something that was like kind of like represents oppression.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
It's hard to take pride in a school that represents
something that represents oppression. That feeling, Kalais is articulating that
conflict is something I think that all black kids at
Rebel schools feel. It's what I feel, and it's what
Kalais felt since he was in high school.
Speaker 6 (15:04):
I remember being in high school and thinking to myself, like,
you know, this isn't really what uh, you know, like
something that's ust to be proud of it, you know,
like I'd rather.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Be a different name.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
But then tell myself, like you, I can't do anything
about it, and so just embrace it, like, you know,
this is what it is now, so you might as
well just try to my best embrace it. But yeah,
I was definitely something that like I didn't I didn't
take pride in but you know, want to take pride
in it.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
So it was.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
It was a tough situation, right for most kids. For me,
you swallow it and you get out. For Kalais, he
found an opportunity to change things in the success that followed.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
Once I got to like, you know, the NFL, and
I was, you know, having a career and stuff. You know,
it was just something that I wanted to try to
help with.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Wal He'd advocated for a name change for most of
his NFL career. It wasn't until Bobby Thomas put the
change in motion that Kalais could help it into the
end zone. His involvement went beyond sizeable financial support endorsement
for the name change held significant weight. As a local
hero with deep ties to the school's athletic legacy. The
decision to adopt the Ravens as the new mascot partly
(16:09):
honored his influence, since he had moved from the Cardinals
to the Baltimore Ravens around that time.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
I am forever grateful to kalay As Campbell, but I
am also so grateful to the individuals in the community
that stepped up to help. But we had a lot
of individuals that just donated because the district didn't have
that money. In rebranding with the gear, that was the
biggest challenge because every sports program, every theater program, everything
(16:41):
had to be switched from as I showed the Rebels
to the Ravens. For uniforms, it was home and away
probably five hundred thousand and so we started presenting all
these elements of it, and we had a vote, and
that's what we decided to move forward with. Was a
phenomenal day an emotional individual. There were a lot of tears,
(17:03):
a lot of congratulations, a lot of how dare you Okay?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, I was curious about the backlash for sure, when
we return the real aftermath of changing a mascot. They
did it. They had the vote, they had the support
of key players, they had the funding. So many steps
to get to this crucial last one step four dealing
with haters.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
There were threats to my family, There were threats to
me personally. We had to take a step away from
social media because of alumni. We're we're you know, we're
the rebels. We've always been that. How dare you? And
they graduated in nineteen sixty.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Nineteen fifty, right exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Well, now it's twenty twenty one. It doesn't look back
it did before. There's not a separate you know, boys
Jim and girls Jim. Like when you went here, you
know those able to go here now exactly. You know,
individuals aren't bus over. We have gender neutral restrooms. And
so it just was coming in a lot to a
(18:08):
point where I actually had an individual that came to
the school wanting to meet me saying that God sent
him to talk to me about the mascot switch and
how to be escorted off by security of the property.
And so it was a point in time where during
(18:29):
that process, once we determine it's going to happen. I
was concerned on leaving the building, who's following me? I
would have to take different routes, stuff like that. But
what I did is I just really found influential stakeholders
that backed this notion and I asked them to help me.
And what they did in their own little groups, they
(18:52):
spread the word and the reason in rationale why because
I had a common script on why this was important?
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Why was it important? Bobby Thomas may have been the
right person at the right time to finally change Denver
South from the rebels, but he was not the first, not.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
By a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
In fact, for the last fifty years, Denver South has
been undergoing what doctor Caleb Smith in our last episode
called a de confederatization, slowly chipping away at the Confederate
imagery hateful peace by hateful peace. There were student protests
in two thousand and nine that saw South's Confederate mascot,
Johnny reb replaced by a short lived gargoyle, a reference
(19:29):
to the beautiful stone griffin that overlooks the entrance to
the school. It's worth noting that these students wanted to
do away with the Rebel name too, but alumni organized
against them. There was Harold Scott, the only black principal
at South before Bobby Thomas, who in the early nineteen
eighties tried and failed to change the team name to
the Penguins. But the de confederatization of Denver South stretches
(19:50):
all the way back to nineteen seventy, when the basketball
state championships between the mostly white Denver South in the
mostly black Manual High School ended in a brawl and
the school stopped playing Dixie at their games the next year.
According to the Denver Post, the fights, coupled with rising
racial tensions in Denver at the time, likely led the
Colorado High School Activities Association to demand South move away
(20:13):
from Confederate imagery. But I don't think it was just
a fight at a basketball game that led to this
change it South. It was a lot more than that.
Speaker 7 (20:23):
I was bussed out to Merrill Junior High School and
that was traumatic. That's a tough conversation for me to
still have. I did a presentation for some folks last October.
It took everything I had to walk through that front door.
Just the anxiety and everything I experienced in seventh grade
(20:47):
just came right back.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
This is Terry Gentry, History, Colorado's engagement manager for Black communities.
She's also a third generation Denver right who personally experienced
the challenges of desegregation.
Speaker 7 (21:00):
On a bus. It didn't feel like it was a
few minutes. It was a long journey. It was probably
almost forty five minute ride out there into a neighborhood
that doesn't really want you there with their bullholme draw
on the corner when we were walking out of school,
telling us what they thought about us.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Terry was bussed to integrate a white school, doing large
part to the policies enacted by Denver's first black woman
Board of Education member and the first African American woman
to hold public office in Colorado, Rachel Noel.
Speaker 7 (21:29):
She joined the Denver School Board nineteen sixty five and
to make some changes, especially recognizing some of the challenges
her own children were experiencing in the schools, she filed
a null resolution.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
The Nole resolution recommended closing some of the overpopulated schools
for minorities and instead integrating students into quality schools across
the city. It also called for textbooks to teach black
history sound familiar.
Speaker 7 (21:55):
In the midst of all the work that she was doing.
A lot of families got really angry about it, and
she received a number of bomb threats.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
The Nole resolution was passed in January nineteen sixty nine,
and then repealed only six months later when a new
school board took office. An African American chiropractor, doctor Wilfrid Keys,
organized eight families to sue the school district for discrimination.
The district court agreed with Keys and ordered Denver to
restart their integration plans, which focused on bussing black and
(22:26):
brown students like Terry across the city. The response to
the court decision was shocking. On the night of February fifth,
nineteen seventy, twelve sticks of dynamite went off at the
Denver school bus depot, destroying twenty four buses and damaging
eighteen more. The acting fire chief at the time was
quoted as saying, the whole thing went up at once.
In my opinion, it was a strictly professional job. A
(22:49):
month later, a pipe bomb went off on Wilfrid Key's porch.
No one was ever caught in any of these terror attacks.
Speaker 7 (22:55):
The extensive damage that the bombing did and the incredib
fear that it imposed on our community. We were disproportionately
the number of people using those buses, and especially terrifying
for our parents to think that somebody would do something
so horrific. And thank goodness, it wasn't at the moment
(23:19):
that we were climbing aboard the bus. And then you
continue to hear the threats against the Knowles, and you
hear the threats against the Keys family, and you have
to still deal with people and their foul mouths and
bad behavior when you got to get up and go
(23:40):
to school every day and listening to some of that
horrific stuff that they spew at you.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
The Keys lawsuit went all the way to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 7 (23:50):
They determined that mandatory bussing was required because there was
so much disparity in our school system, unequal education, unequal
access to resources, unequal in every former fashion.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
This case is notable as one of the first instances
of the court addressing segregation in a northern school. But
Terry no longer had to endure the long bus rides
to school. Just before high school, her family moved to
a new neighborhood in a different school district. They did
it for her so she wouldn't have to attend in
ver South.
Speaker 7 (24:23):
We hadn't moved when I was in ninth Before ninth grade,
that's where I would have attended high school because my
whole neighborhood attended South High School. So all my classmates
and neighbors that I grew up with with the bussing
would go to South. My grandmother and grandfather they were
(24:43):
close friends with Rachel Noele. So listening to my grandmother
talk about some of the things that were happening, she
helped to put perspective on it. Learning all of these
things about our ancestors and what they had to deal with.
We know, you got to get up and go take
care of it. You have to get up and go
do it. You know what the sad part is people
assume that some of the stuff we had to experience,
(25:08):
only it happens in the South. And we have some
incredible history here in Colorado with the amount of stuff
that we've had to deal with, and we are working
so hard to continue to change our experiences and continue
to fight for our human rights and everyone to have
(25:32):
a better life.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
History is hard to hear sometimes, and talking to Terry
Gentry is a reminder things that feel long ago are
still right here with us, and so it's important to
make change, real change to help move us forward. Bobby
(25:57):
Thomas did it at Denver South High School. Asked him
what advice he would have for me to make the
same change to start healing the same wounds at Boone County.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
From learning from individuals before that had tried this, I
think they tried to get too much stakeholder voice and involvement.
I think what got me to this point is I
had to identify critical stakeholders that had a strong voice, because,
like I said, there's still things on you know, social
(26:28):
media platforms that individuals say. There were still you know,
the chants and things you know those first like year
or so. But again, once you had your first full
group of freshmen that came in, they only knew the Ravens.
It helped with athletics and our teams, and we made
it affordable.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
He didn't just make it affordable in those early days
of the transition. He made the Ravens gear free.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I didn't ban like South gear, like rebel stuff, nothing
like that at all. We flooded the market. I was
able to get every student at that point in time,
eighteen hundred students at the school, you know, two to
four different items of gear, so they had multiple things
wag left and right. Some of the older students were like, Ah,
(27:16):
we're gonna wear our Rebels stuff and okay, that's fine.
But over time they were like, wow, look at that
new updated logo. That's pretty cool. And you know, they
wanted the new merch and so we made it very modern,
partnered with under arm or Nike like different companies like that,
and before you know it, they're like, that's that's cool.
(27:37):
I want to I want to wear that, and we
made it affordable.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Kalais Campbell would have been one of those kids who
needed subsidized Ravens gear.
Speaker 6 (27:44):
Like my growing up, we grew up kind of tough,
like you know, we didn't have a lot of money
and resources, but we were always like involved in the community,
you know, my dad, my mom. You know, like during
the holidays, we're you know, getting free meals. But we
all saw taking those mails like whoever's people are giving
away the charity is getting away for meals and we're
helping the distributors in the community to people who need.
(28:06):
Even before I was born, you know, my dad had
like a place where kids could come after school and
hang out and avoid trouble. He always felt like that,
you know, if you were involved in the community, you're involved.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
In extra correct activities that.
Speaker 6 (28:20):
You know, you wouldn't be at risk with just you know,
being black in America and you know, all the negative
stuff that comes with like you know, uh, you know,
gang violence or you know.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
The police brutality or all that stuff, and just you're.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Somewhere, you're active, you're you know, you're you're busy, too
busy to get in trouble. And so, you know, so
he had a place where people come to their homework
and play video.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Games and just hang out.
Speaker 6 (28:43):
It is this cool to see that people care and
hopefully this inspiration to help other people want to do
something help.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Kalais had been hoping for this change since he was
a student back in two thousand and four. Bobby wanted
it from the moment he became principal. It didn't happen quickly,
but eventually the change did come.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
So the start of twenty nineteen, I started this process,
even though technically it was twenty twenty one. Still like
the Big Switch over the Big Projects weren't done until
twenty twenty two. Wow, so it was about three years,
I would say, but at least loud voices that people
(29:23):
respected were standing behind his decision. And that's the advice
that I would give. This is not a me thing,
This is an US thing because when I first started this,
trying to get as many people involved and let's do
a big survey of what like, it was too daunting
in so many different competing thoughts and perspectives. And once
(29:47):
I just got a respected, you know, committee together, they
made the decisions. They made the final based on some feedback,
but it wasn't like a whole big process involving everyone.
It just fills my cup to speak about this over
and over and remember kind of the whole process. And
please feel free to reach out throughout this process or
(30:11):
if there's anybody else I could put you in contact with,
I'm more than willing.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
To help you out.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Thank you so much for really so change is possible.
It takes community support that doesn't need to be unanimous.
It just needs to come from people who take their
leadership positions seriously. It takes having great ideas about what
makes your community awesome and unique. And we learned to
take some serious cash. And with figures like Kaleis Campbell
(30:36):
in their corner, anything's possible, you know, Like.
Speaker 6 (30:39):
I represent the school, I represent you know who they are,
and so like, you know, I want you to know
have pride in me too, and I want to represent
the kind of person.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
That you can to fight it in.
Speaker 6 (30:48):
But it has to go before this, and so that
was definitely part of the motivation to get a change.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
So it was a process. It wasn't like a quick process.
Speaker 6 (30:55):
It took a little while, a lot of small conversations
over time that land to pick up steam and then
you know, like wow, you know, now I feel a
lot more pride in my school, you know, because you know,
no matter what where you come from, there's such an attachment,
there's no such a pride. But you know, I would like,
you know.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
For a moment there it was like, you know, it's
pride but has like a little bit of a.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Right like an asterisk. Yeah, that's how I feel. That's
exactly how I feel.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
Yes, So now I feel pride with that she's just gone,
and I feel.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
A lot of pride in my feeling school pride without
an asterisk, without apology, real pride like Kalais Campbell feels. Now,
that's what I want for Boone County High School. And
you know what Boone County High School sits on, Sean
Alexander Way, our very own Kalais Campbell. If there was
a way to get in touch with Sean, someone who
(31:53):
also has a history of philanthropy, would there be a
path to change. I mean, as much as I'd like
to pitch the Boone County Seahawks, we know that Kalay
has helped, not because they were going to name it
after one of the teams he played for. He helped
because he felt the awkwardness of rooting for the Rebels
as a young black man. If we could find out
how Sean feels about the rebels, if he wanted to
(32:13):
partner with some very eager change agents, if if next
episode we're going to try to find out. Rebel Spirit
is a production of Ninth Planet Audio and association with
iHeart Podcasts. Reporting and writing by me Akuila Hughes. I'm
(32:36):
also an executive producer and the host. Produced by Dan Sinker,
edited by Josie zahm Our. Assistant editor is Jennifer Dean.
Music composed by Charlie Sun. Sound design and mixing by
Josie A.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Zahm Our.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Theme song is All the Things I Couldn't Say, performed
by Bussy and the Bass courtesy of Arts and Crafts Productions, Inc.
Our production coordinator is Kyle Hinton, Our clearance coordinator is
Anna Sun Andshine. Production accounting by Dilfrid Singh. Additional research
support from Janice Dillard. Executive producers for Ninth Planet Audio
are Elizabeth Bakfoot and Jimmy Miller. Special thanks to Jay
(33:13):
Becker and the whole team at BLDG, the Florence y'alls,
Amber Hoffmann, Hillary Delaney, and Leslie Chambers. If you have
a racist mascot at your high school, or are an
alumni of a high school with a racist mascot and
want to share your own experience, please email us at
Rebel Spirit Podcast at gmail dot com. We would love
to hear from you
My older has gone on overlanding Rene.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Ninth Planet Audio dot Com.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
We're overlanding, You're no landing.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Over Okay, we're starting to really build a case here.
We know why schools are called rebels, we know why
it's bad. We know so much about the history of
our country of desegregation. We've seen other people try to
change the Boone County High School Rebels before and fail,
And we know how important a mascot really is, not
(00:33):
just for fun, but for a sense of real identity
and pride. But now we need to know how to
do it. We've gotten so little direction on what to
do next because no one at Boone is a champion
in this fight yet, so we knew we'd need to
talk to a school, a school that used to be
one of the over two hundred rebels in America and
made the change on purpose for the right reasons.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I would love to talk about this process because it
was in tech for sure.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Meet Bobby Thomas, the principal at South High School in Denver, Colorado.
His school successfully changed from the rebels in twenty twenty two.
And this happened because Bobby is an example of the
right person at the right place, at the right time.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I'll never forget like being so happy and thankful and
stepping out in the hallways and seeing just it looked like,
you know, a world market with students wearing his jobs
and you know, you name it, everything you could think of,
and it just brought me joy. But then over time,
just trying to see the branding and walking in every
(01:39):
day and seeing rebels each and every day, it bothered
me as a leader of color.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Here's what I mean about right person at the right time.
Bobby is from Denver, so he's not an outsider. His father,
who was black, was a landscaper and janitor, and his mother,
who is Hispanic, cleaned houses. He played college football at
Las Forest College, so he knows the value of athletics
and team building. He transferred to Metropolitan State University and
earned a bachelor's degree in history. Okay, so we've got
(02:09):
a guy who gets race, athletics, and history. Then he
earned his master's degree in special education from the University
of Colorado at Denver, so now we can add education
to his list of experiences and interests. With all that
life experience and education, Bobby walked into South Denver High
and was able to look around with fresh eyes, and
what he saw wasn't just the current students from all
(02:31):
walks of life at Denver South, but the history of
the Confederate imagery that used to be at the school
as well.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
And the more and more I started seeing things and
looking at the museums and talking to alumni. Your books
had the Confederate flag, the mascot was Johnny Red, and
the songs they used to play, you know when the
football team scored touchdowns was Confederate songs that supported the Confederacy.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
While all those things were in the past at Denver South,
one thing wasn't rebel name sound familiar. When Bobby Thomas
proposed a name change at Denver South, he was contending
with over one hundred and thirty years of history. South
High Schools opened in eighteen ninety three and is one
of four original high schools in Denver. The other three
are East, North, and West. When Denver Public Schools named
(03:18):
its four cardinal direction in the high schools, each took
a mascot and imagery associated with that direction. North was
the Vikings, East our Angels, and West took the cowboy
as its mascot, and South went with the Confederacy. This
goes way back further than brownbe Board of Education. This
is in the nineteen twenties, back when mascots were actual dogs.
(03:41):
That's the kind of entrenched history Bobby tackled.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
And so I'm like, now's the best time to do this.
There's opportunities. Is a leader that you choose hills that
you want to die on, And I said, this is
going to be the one because I need to make
a difference for me showing up every day in my
skin and who I am, and for my own kids,
(04:05):
but also for all of the students and staff in
the community that.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
We serve a hill to die on. That's leadership. Choosing
a policy change, a culture change, not because it is easy,
but because it is right. Today. You're going to go
step by step to see exactly what it takes to
get rebel taken from a historical school, I was a lady.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Rebel, Like, what does that even need?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
The Boone County Rebels will stay the Boone County Rebels
with the image of right here in black and white
and friends.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
In bigger than a flag or mascot.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
Anytime you're trying to mess with tradition, you get to
be ready for a serious back crash.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
From Ninth Planet Audio. I'm Akuila Hughes and this is
Rebel Spirit episode seven, Denver South. From Spencer experience with
the petition. We know that a one and done approach
does not stick for anyone else out there who's listening
to this episode For a step by step guide of
how to change a mascot, Bobby is going to break
(05:10):
it down for us. Step one, coalition build.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I started one on one meet with them individually, and
then next the next meeting would be me with two
of them together, then three of them together, and then
I would start to build an alliance that way. Because
I knew if I could just get a critical mass
of individuals that supported this and they understood the true
why they could spread the word in the community. I
(05:40):
started to reach out to the alumni group, got them
on board. They used to have a newsletter that went
out that's still in twenty twenty one, was called the Confederacy.
I started talking to important alumni, different types of groups
in the community, city council just to get on board.
So I convened a committee of students of alumni of
all these type of individuals to give history of South
(06:04):
and then I just I made it about me and
my journey in leadership, saying I love this place, I
love this community. It's hard to lead knowing the history
around us and what it stood for and where we
are now, where we're trying to go, I need to
really make sure I have district level support. So there
were specific board members that were definitely on board. We
(06:25):
had to get buy in because, like I said, I
had alumni represented and they weren't bought into why are
we going to do this? Like this is not what
we're about. And so having specific student groups where students
spoke their truth change some of the alumni perspective on
who they are today.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
With a coalition behind him, Bobby knew that the next
thing was to offer an alternative. If not the rebels,
then what when we come back. We're going to dive
into Step two design. In our last episode we talked
about how nebulous it is to actually pick the next mascot.
If South High isn't the rebel they step two design.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I brought in a company, a branding and marketing company,
where like, if we're going to do this, we need
to do this right. We need to have specific logos,
we need to have specific branding, we need color schemes,
like all of these things. So they kind of led
some of the facilitation in the marketing of it. Let's
come up with ideas and thoughts and so we have
(07:24):
all of these options, from the yeties to I mean,
and there's gargoyles outside of the building. We have a
lot of geese around and they want to be the
fighting geese and like all these different things, but also
something that one hundred years, two hundred, five hundred years,
it's going to be something that's not going to offend
a specific group.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Bobby and his team had narrowed their choices down and
we're actually heading towards endorsing the Royals, the same name
that you'll remember from the last episode Tyris's quartz Hill
High changed too. But then at the last second something
else flew in.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
We know we're going to be the Ravens. Actually, yeah,
we were going to be the Royals. Yeah, And so
it was I mean, the Ravens came about probably the last,
the last bid of this because we really were moving
forward kind of with the Royals, and so after this
whole process we determined the raven We did a lot
of research around the Raven. They're highly intelligent. We found
(08:23):
videos and research that they could actually speak. They're strong
by themselves, but also they take care of one another.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
There's another thing that the Raven's name had going for
it that you wouldn't know unless you were there. At
Denver South, our producer Dan found himself staying less than
a mile away this spring.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I am standing outside Denver South High School right now.
It's late March. That was a big snow yesterday, but
I'm walking up. It is spring break, so there are
no students around.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Dan crunched through the icy snow as he made his
way around the school's park like campus.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
The building is beauty.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
There's just these large towers, gargoyles. Oh, those are the
gargoyles that they were gonna name it after. There's a
big gargoyle at the kind of apex of this roof.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Dan walked across campus, punctuated with Ravens banners and was
taken by how beautiful it all was.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
So Denver South is actually situated at the very end
of Washington Park, which is a very large city park.
I think there's like science museums and stuff like that
in Washington Park. The kind of terminus of Washington Park
is actually the high school.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
So the high school is on this kind of really
beautiful grounds.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
But it wasn't until he made his way back to
his car, the only one in the school's vast parking lot,
that the real reason behind the school's name became apparent.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Like all of Denver, that's a crow behind me, not
a raven. Maybe it is a raven. Actually, now that
I think about it, there are a raven and Denver
not crows. So there you go, there are actually ravens
in the parking lot. Go see if I can get
a photo.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Look around Denver South High School and you see these intelligent, independent,
caring birds everywhere. Sometimes the most obvious choice is all
around you. It just takes a moment to realize it.
Once they did, the rest fell into place.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
So we thought about all of those things like historical
cheers and chants and so should have been a rebel before?
And it was easy to say now to switch it
and say should have been a raven. Economy of language.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
With the name said, it was time for step three funding.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
So I did a cost analysis the amount of money
that it took to make a change like this. So
just for the athletic components, and I said, we have
eighteen hundred students at the time, twenty three different programs.
It was over one hundred thousand dollars. Just inm We
had our floor in the gymnasium was a rebel that
(11:06):
had to get switched out. That was another fifty two
thousand dollars to be refinished.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, redoing all the floors, finding a company that has
done this before, but just being very strategic on the
things that you have to change because you can't do
at all.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Like the order of operations.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
We just can't. Yeah, And this is where Kalais Campbell
came in, who is a famous alumni.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Famous is an understatement. Kalais Campbell is an NFL All
star who graduated from South High School in two thousand
and four, and over the last twenty years he has
had a phenomenal college and NFL career as a defensive end.
After graduating from South, Kalais went to the University of Miami,
where he played for three years before being drafted to
the Arizona Cardinals in two thousand and eight, where he
(11:54):
helped the team reach the Super Bowl for the first
time in their history. He remained at the car for
another nine years before joining the Jacksonville Jaguars in twenty seventeen.
He played three seasons in Jacksonville before joining the Baltimore Ravens,
Yes the Ravens in twenty twenty in the Atlanta Falcons
in twenty twenty three. This summer, he announced that he
(12:14):
was going back to Miami, where he'd gone to college,
to play for the Dolphins at thirty eight. But Kalaias
isn't just good at football. He's also a good person.
Ever since he went pro, Kalaiis has made giving back
a priority. When starting out in Arizona, he'd give away
hundreds of Thanksgiving meals to families in need. For the
last fifteen years, he's held Christmas with Kalais, where he
(12:36):
sponsors holiday shopping sprees for local kids. He created an
endowed scholarship for defensive linemen with a one point six
million dollar gift to the University of Miami. When the
pandemic hit while he was in Baltimore, he gave two
hundred thousand dollars to help support struggling black owned businesses
and twenty grand of families to help cover their bills.
There's the one hundred Sack give Back, where he honored
(12:56):
his one hundredth professional sack by giving one hundred thousand
dollars to teach around the country. The list could go
on for a long time. Kalais's giving is extensive and generous,
and in twenty nineteen, it earned him the NFL's Walter
Payton Man of the Year Award, the league's top honor
to a player to recognize their commitment to philanthropy and community.
(13:17):
In giving him the award, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said,
Kalaiis Campbell's impact extends far beyond the field, in the
communities throughout Phoenix, Jacksonville, and beyond. One of those places
was back home at Denver South.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I didn't know him. I'd only started at the school
two years prior, putting me in connection with him through
somebody else that actually knew him. That's how the conversation started.
He was talking to former teachers. Usually at that point
it's like talking to agents, talk to my people, like
those type of situations, but he actually had personal contacts
(13:55):
with people in the South community that were still there.
You know, we needed something our current kids and he
stepped up to the plate, and.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
I remember talking to you know, the point of contact
I talked to the most was he was my old
basketball coach, but he became a.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Flight director for South ladies and gentlemen, Kalais Campbell, and I.
Speaker 6 (14:13):
Remember talking to him about it, you know, probably like
my second or third year in the NFL. So this
is probably, you know, thirteen and fourteen years ago.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
You heard that correctly. Kaleis Campbell has been talking with
people at Denver South about the Rebel name since just
a few years in his long career in the NFL.
In fact, he made sure to mention it any chance
he could.
Speaker 6 (14:33):
Usually when I've gone back to the school, you know,
you're with the higher ups. You know, you're with the
people who can who have the fluence, and so you know,
I mean, I've made a point to say something every time,
like it's hard to take pride to school that you know,
represents something that was like kind of like represents oppression.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
It's hard to take pride in a school that represents
something that represents oppression. That feeling, Kalais is articulating that
conflict is something I think that all black kids at
Rebel schools feel. It's what I feel, and it's what
Kalais felt since he was in high school.
Speaker 6 (15:04):
I remember being in high school and thinking to myself, like,
you know, this isn't really what uh, you know, like
something that's ust to be proud of it, you know,
like I'd rather.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Be a different name.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
But then tell myself, like you, I can't do anything
about it, and so just embrace it, like, you know,
this is what it is now, so you might as
well just try to my best embrace it. But yeah,
I was definitely something that like I didn't I didn't
take pride in but you know, want to take pride
in it.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
So it was.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
It was a tough situation, right for most kids. For me,
you swallow it and you get out. For Kalais, he
found an opportunity to change things in the success that followed.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
Once I got to like, you know, the NFL, and
I was, you know, having a career and stuff. You know,
it was just something that I wanted to try to
help with.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Wal He'd advocated for a name change for most of
his NFL career. It wasn't until Bobby Thomas put the
change in motion that Kalais could help it into the
end zone. His involvement went beyond sizeable financial support endorsement
for the name change held significant weight. As a local
hero with deep ties to the school's athletic legacy. The
decision to adopt the Ravens as the new mascot partly
(16:09):
honored his influence, since he had moved from the Cardinals
to the Baltimore Ravens around that time.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
I am forever grateful to kalay As Campbell, but I
am also so grateful to the individuals in the community
that stepped up to help. But we had a lot
of individuals that just donated because the district didn't have
that money. In rebranding with the gear, that was the
biggest challenge because every sports program, every theater program, everything
(16:41):
had to be switched from as I showed the Rebels
to the Ravens. For uniforms, it was home and away
probably five hundred thousand and so we started presenting all
these elements of it, and we had a vote, and
that's what we decided to move forward with. Was a
phenomenal day an emotional individual. There were a lot of tears,
(17:03):
a lot of congratulations, a lot of how dare you Okay?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, I was curious about the backlash for sure, when
we return the real aftermath of changing a mascot. They
did it. They had the vote, they had the support
of key players, they had the funding. So many steps
to get to this crucial last one step four dealing
with haters.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
There were threats to my family, There were threats to
me personally. We had to take a step away from
social media because of alumni. We're we're you know, we're
the rebels. We've always been that. How dare you? And
they graduated in nineteen sixty.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Nineteen fifty, right exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Well, now it's twenty twenty one. It doesn't look back
it did before. There's not a separate you know, boys
Jim and girls Jim. Like when you went here, you
know those able to go here now exactly. You know,
individuals aren't bus over. We have gender neutral restrooms. And
so it just was coming in a lot to a
(18:08):
point where I actually had an individual that came to
the school wanting to meet me saying that God sent
him to talk to me about the mascot switch and
how to be escorted off by security of the property.
And so it was a point in time where during
(18:29):
that process, once we determine it's going to happen. I
was concerned on leaving the building, who's following me? I
would have to take different routes, stuff like that. But
what I did is I just really found influential stakeholders
that backed this notion and I asked them to help me.
And what they did in their own little groups, they
(18:52):
spread the word and the reason in rationale why because
I had a common script on why this was important?
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Why was it important? Bobby Thomas may have been the
right person at the right time to finally change Denver
South from the rebels, but he was not the first, not.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
By a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
In fact, for the last fifty years, Denver South has
been undergoing what doctor Caleb Smith in our last episode
called a de confederatization, slowly chipping away at the Confederate
imagery hateful peace by hateful peace. There were student protests
in two thousand and nine that saw South's Confederate mascot,
Johnny reb replaced by a short lived gargoyle, a reference
(19:29):
to the beautiful stone griffin that overlooks the entrance to
the school. It's worth noting that these students wanted to
do away with the Rebel name too, but alumni organized
against them. There was Harold Scott, the only black principal
at South before Bobby Thomas, who in the early nineteen
eighties tried and failed to change the team name to
the Penguins. But the de confederatization of Denver South stretches
(19:50):
all the way back to nineteen seventy, when the basketball
state championships between the mostly white Denver South in the
mostly black Manual High School ended in a brawl and
the school stopped playing Dixie at their games the next year.
According to the Denver Post, the fights, coupled with rising
racial tensions in Denver at the time, likely led the
Colorado High School Activities Association to demand South move away
(20:13):
from Confederate imagery. But I don't think it was just
a fight at a basketball game that led to this
change it South. It was a lot more than that.
Speaker 7 (20:23):
I was bussed out to Merrill Junior High School and
that was traumatic. That's a tough conversation for me to
still have. I did a presentation for some folks last October.
It took everything I had to walk through that front door.
Just the anxiety and everything I experienced in seventh grade
(20:47):
just came right back.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
This is Terry Gentry, History, Colorado's engagement manager for Black communities.
She's also a third generation Denver right who personally experienced
the challenges of desegregation.
Speaker 7 (21:00):
On a bus. It didn't feel like it was a
few minutes. It was a long journey. It was probably
almost forty five minute ride out there into a neighborhood
that doesn't really want you there with their bullholme draw
on the corner when we were walking out of school,
telling us what they thought about us.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Terry was bussed to integrate a white school, doing large
part to the policies enacted by Denver's first black woman
Board of Education member and the first African American woman
to hold public office in Colorado, Rachel Noel.
Speaker 7 (21:29):
She joined the Denver School Board nineteen sixty five and
to make some changes, especially recognizing some of the challenges
her own children were experiencing in the schools, she filed
a null resolution.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
The Nole resolution recommended closing some of the overpopulated schools
for minorities and instead integrating students into quality schools across
the city. It also called for textbooks to teach black
history sound familiar.
Speaker 7 (21:55):
In the midst of all the work that she was doing.
A lot of families got really angry about it, and
she received a number of bomb threats.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
The Nole resolution was passed in January nineteen sixty nine,
and then repealed only six months later when a new
school board took office. An African American chiropractor, doctor Wilfrid Keys,
organized eight families to sue the school district for discrimination.
The district court agreed with Keys and ordered Denver to
restart their integration plans, which focused on bussing black and
(22:26):
brown students like Terry across the city. The response to
the court decision was shocking. On the night of February fifth,
nineteen seventy, twelve sticks of dynamite went off at the
Denver school bus depot, destroying twenty four buses and damaging
eighteen more. The acting fire chief at the time was
quoted as saying, the whole thing went up at once.
In my opinion, it was a strictly professional job. A
(22:49):
month later, a pipe bomb went off on Wilfrid Key's porch.
No one was ever caught in any of these terror attacks.
Speaker 7 (22:55):
The extensive damage that the bombing did and the incredib
fear that it imposed on our community. We were disproportionately
the number of people using those buses, and especially terrifying
for our parents to think that somebody would do something
so horrific. And thank goodness, it wasn't at the moment
(23:19):
that we were climbing aboard the bus. And then you
continue to hear the threats against the Knowles, and you
hear the threats against the Keys family, and you have
to still deal with people and their foul mouths and
bad behavior when you got to get up and go
(23:40):
to school every day and listening to some of that
horrific stuff that they spew at you.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
The Keys lawsuit went all the way to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 7 (23:50):
They determined that mandatory bussing was required because there was
so much disparity in our school system, unequal education, unequal
access to resources, unequal in every former fashion.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
This case is notable as one of the first instances
of the court addressing segregation in a northern school. But
Terry no longer had to endure the long bus rides
to school. Just before high school, her family moved to
a new neighborhood in a different school district. They did
it for her so she wouldn't have to attend in
ver South.
Speaker 7 (24:23):
We hadn't moved when I was in ninth Before ninth grade,
that's where I would have attended high school because my
whole neighborhood attended South High School. So all my classmates
and neighbors that I grew up with with the bussing
would go to South. My grandmother and grandfather they were
(24:43):
close friends with Rachel Noele. So listening to my grandmother
talk about some of the things that were happening, she
helped to put perspective on it. Learning all of these
things about our ancestors and what they had to deal with.
We know, you got to get up and go take
care of it. You have to get up and go
do it. You know what the sad part is people
assume that some of the stuff we had to experience,
(25:08):
only it happens in the South. And we have some
incredible history here in Colorado with the amount of stuff
that we've had to deal with, and we are working
so hard to continue to change our experiences and continue
to fight for our human rights and everyone to have
(25:32):
a better life.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
History is hard to hear sometimes, and talking to Terry
Gentry is a reminder things that feel long ago are
still right here with us, and so it's important to
make change, real change to help move us forward. Bobby
(25:57):
Thomas did it at Denver South High School. Asked him
what advice he would have for me to make the
same change to start healing the same wounds at Boone County.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
From learning from individuals before that had tried this, I
think they tried to get too much stakeholder voice and involvement.
I think what got me to this point is I
had to identify critical stakeholders that had a strong voice, because,
like I said, there's still things on you know, social
(26:28):
media platforms that individuals say. There were still you know,
the chants and things you know those first like year
or so. But again, once you had your first full
group of freshmen that came in, they only knew the Ravens.
It helped with athletics and our teams, and we made
it affordable.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
He didn't just make it affordable in those early days
of the transition. He made the Ravens gear free.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I didn't ban like South gear, like rebel stuff, nothing
like that at all. We flooded the market. I was
able to get every student at that point in time,
eighteen hundred students at the school, you know, two to
four different items of gear, so they had multiple things
wag left and right. Some of the older students were like, Ah,
(27:16):
we're gonna wear our Rebels stuff and okay, that's fine.
But over time they were like, wow, look at that
new updated logo. That's pretty cool. And you know, they
wanted the new merch and so we made it very modern,
partnered with under arm or Nike like different companies like that,
and before you know it, they're like, that's that's cool.
(27:37):
I want to I want to wear that, and we
made it affordable.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Kalais Campbell would have been one of those kids who
needed subsidized Ravens gear.
Speaker 6 (27:44):
Like my growing up, we grew up kind of tough,
like you know, we didn't have a lot of money
and resources, but we were always like involved in the community,
you know, my dad, my mom. You know, like during
the holidays, we're you know, getting free meals. But we
all saw taking those mails like whoever's people are giving
away the charity is getting away for meals and we're
helping the distributors in the community to people who need.
(28:06):
Even before I was born, you know, my dad had
like a place where kids could come after school and
hang out and avoid trouble. He always felt like that,
you know, if you were involved in the community, you're involved.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
In extra correct activities that.
Speaker 6 (28:20):
You know, you wouldn't be at risk with just you know,
being black in America and you know, all the negative
stuff that comes with like you know, uh, you know,
gang violence or you know.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
The police brutality or all that stuff, and just you're.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Somewhere, you're active, you're you know, you're you're busy, too
busy to get in trouble. And so, you know, so
he had a place where people come to their homework
and play video.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Games and just hang out.
Speaker 6 (28:43):
It is this cool to see that people care and
hopefully this inspiration to help other people want to do
something help.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Kalais had been hoping for this change since he was
a student back in two thousand and four. Bobby wanted
it from the moment he became principal. It didn't happen quickly,
but eventually the change did come.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
So the start of twenty nineteen, I started this process,
even though technically it was twenty twenty one. Still like
the Big Switch over the Big Projects weren't done until
twenty twenty two. Wow, so it was about three years,
I would say, but at least loud voices that people
(29:23):
respected were standing behind his decision. And that's the advice
that I would give. This is not a me thing,
This is an US thing because when I first started this,
trying to get as many people involved and let's do
a big survey of what like, it was too daunting
in so many different competing thoughts and perspectives. And once
(29:47):
I just got a respected, you know, committee together, they
made the decisions. They made the final based on some feedback,
but it wasn't like a whole big process involving everyone.
It just fills my cup to speak about this over
and over and remember kind of the whole process. And
please feel free to reach out throughout this process or
(30:11):
if there's anybody else I could put you in contact with,
I'm more than willing.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
To help you out.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Thank you so much for really so change is possible.
It takes community support that doesn't need to be unanimous.
It just needs to come from people who take their
leadership positions seriously. It takes having great ideas about what
makes your community awesome and unique. And we learned to
take some serious cash. And with figures like Kaleis Campbell
(30:36):
in their corner, anything's possible, you know, Like.
Speaker 6 (30:39):
I represent the school, I represent you know who they are,
and so like, you know, I want you to know
have pride in me too, and I want to represent
the kind of person.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
That you can to fight it in.
Speaker 6 (30:48):
But it has to go before this, and so that
was definitely part of the motivation to get a change.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
So it was a process. It wasn't like a quick process.
Speaker 6 (30:55):
It took a little while, a lot of small conversations
over time that land to pick up steam and then
you know, like wow, you know, now I feel a
lot more pride in my school, you know, because you know,
no matter what where you come from, there's such an attachment,
there's no such a pride. But you know, I would like,
you know.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
For a moment there it was like, you know, it's
pride but has like a little bit of a.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Right like an asterisk. Yeah, that's how I feel. That's
exactly how I feel.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
Yes, So now I feel pride with that she's just gone,
and I feel.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
A lot of pride in my feeling school pride without
an asterisk, without apology, real pride like Kalais Campbell feels. Now,
that's what I want for Boone County High School. And
you know what Boone County High School sits on, Sean
Alexander Way, our very own Kalais Campbell. If there was
a way to get in touch with Sean, someone who
(31:53):
also has a history of philanthropy, would there be a
path to change. I mean, as much as I'd like
to pitch the Boone County Seahawks, we know that Kalay
has helped, not because they were going to name it
after one of the teams he played for. He helped
because he felt the awkwardness of rooting for the Rebels
as a young black man. If we could find out
how Sean feels about the rebels, if he wanted to
(32:13):
partner with some very eager change agents, if if next
episode we're going to try to find out. Rebel Spirit
is a production of Ninth Planet Audio and association with
iHeart Podcasts. Reporting and writing by me Akuila Hughes. I'm
(32:36):
also an executive producer and the host. Produced by Dan Sinker,
edited by Josie zahm Our. Assistant editor is Jennifer Dean.
Music composed by Charlie Sun. Sound design and mixing by
Josie A.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Zahm Our.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Theme song is All the Things I Couldn't Say, performed
by Bussy and the Bass courtesy of Arts and Crafts Productions, Inc.
Our production coordinator is Kyle Hinton, Our clearance coordinator is
Anna Sun Andshine. Production accounting by Dilfrid Singh. Additional research
support from Janice Dillard. Executive producers for Ninth Planet Audio
are Elizabeth Bakfoot and Jimmy Miller. Special thanks to Jay
(33:13):
Becker and the whole team at BLDG, the Florence y'alls,
Amber Hoffmann, Hillary Delaney, and Leslie Chambers. If you have
a racist mascot at your high school, or are an
alumni of a high school with a racist mascot and
want to share your own experience, please email us at
Rebel Spirit Podcast at gmail dot com. We would love
to hear from you
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