I'm Gonna Steal Your Bird: the Strange World of Pigeon Theft

Have you ever wanted to race a pigeon? No? Well, have you ever wanted to steal a pigeon? Still, no? Well, that doesn't matter! You'll still have your mind blown and your heart strings tugged by the weird and wonderful world of pigeon theft. The eye-popping prices for prized pigeons, the curious pigeon breeders and pigeon keepers, and of course the international criminals who take advantage of it all to fuel the black market. One thing is certain: this story says a lot about more about us than it does about pigeons.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous crime. It's a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Elizabeth Dutt. Oh, nice to see you.

Speaker 3 (00:07):
It's good to see you.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
It's been quite a week, it really has. Yeah, you've
been world cupping. I've been working.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
I know it. You know it.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Who you're rooting for?

Speaker 3 (00:15):
France of course, and Mexico.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh nice, I like Mexico. Well, I got another question
for you.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Who are you rooting for?

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Oh, the list is too long because I don't have
any like national allegiances per se, and I have so
many cultures to draw upon in my family lineage. So
I'm rooting for Ghana and Senegal and Germany and Norway,
and I could go on and oh in Scotland. How
could I forget Scotland. We're both rooting for Scotland. Yeah,

(00:44):
so there we got some overlap, a little bit, yeah,
a little bit. I got another question for you, not
soccer related, but it is okay for football related.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Football we call it football and football is not coming
home England anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Do you know it's ridiculous?

Speaker 4 (01:03):
Me?

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yes, I do. What They're real, they're strange, they're fun
and quirky. I'm reading from a press release. The word
quirky is mentioned ever taste a meatball and gravy and
liganberry flavor lollipop? Oh god, yeah, this has not many

(01:25):
have at Ikea. We love meatballs, but we also love
Swedish candy. The Ikea is it chuppa chops, chupa choops.
You know that lollipop company collab is here. They're hitting
all the points something disgusting, saying the word collab, saying
the word quirky. You got this from a bunch of
different rude dudes. So I don't have one that I

(01:48):
can blame or thank. Anyway, they don't have them anymore,
I guess because they were only available in the restaurant
in Ikea on June eleventh and June twenty twenty six,
but they were free if you'd eat Would you eat
a lollipop that tastes like a Swedish meatball?

Speaker 2 (02:07):
I was gonna say, lingenberry and meatball. When you put
those together, I'm probably going to knock it out of
your hands if you offer it to me.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Do you know what started as in April fools?

Speaker 2 (02:17):
I'm not surprised.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
And then they were like, wait a second, sounds like
a joke. If we do this, Elizabeth will talk about
us hashtag ikia lollipop and there they go. They got
what they wanted. They also have a thing on the
page about it on their website. Meatballs, meatballs, meatballs. Here
are a few fun facts about when each meatball creation.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Was cooked up.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
Okay, and cases comes up on Jeopardy, you should know,
born in nineteen eighty five, meatballs, born in twenty fifteen.
Chicken balls, I as, yeah, it took them what is
it thirty years to come up with chick chicken twenty fifteen,
same year veggie balls twenty twenty five years later plant.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Balls different than veggie balls, I guess, and.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
Then twenty twenty six wharf fishballs. That's a that's a
big ass.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Is that like the white fish? Like the lucafish that.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
They do so they don't go into detail. They're like,
we don't need to say more than that.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Glutafish or lukafish, lutafish lufis technically yes.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah, okay, lutefish whatever disgusting fermented meatball. The lollipop isn't
fermented anyway, there's are you curious.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
To know what's in it? I assume sugar it's.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
Colored with beetroot. That's another of your favorites. And I
started saying three eighty eight calories pop.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
That's right for the sugar.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, that's calories right there. Anyway, meatball flavored lollipops ridiculous?

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Right?

Speaker 3 (03:52):
Oh I am?

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Who I am? I got another question for you. If
you ever wanted to raise a pigeon.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Like me, racing it like down the street, like which
one of us is gonna win?

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, not like you personally, but like you get a pigeon,
I get a pigeon.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
We make the pigeons race each other. I thought I
had to physically race the pigeon.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
I think we're all fast a flyer. I think we
all know who's whinning that one me. Yeah, so that
sounds fun for you. I get a pigeon, You get
a pigeon, We raise them. Sure?

Speaker 3 (04:19):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Well you're in luck. Well I got a story for you. Great,
it's all about the theft of racing pigeons. Oh no,

(04:47):
this is ridiculous crime A podcast about absurd and outrage
ass kpers heists and cons. It's always ninety nine percent
murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yes it is I affirm that statement.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Thank you for affirming my statement.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
You're welcome.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
I really feel.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
Heart stand in your truth.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, Elizabeth, I got a weird wild one for you today.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
They hit me.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
But first I need to ask you another question.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
I love when you asked me questions. Really, but you.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Used to keep chickens. Yeah, what was that like?

Speaker 3 (05:22):
It was great? Not really, it was more was it.
I knew it was going to be a lot of work.
They were really great when I would find hornworms on
my tomatoes because I just feed them to them. Now
I don't have chickens, so I get a pair of
garden clippers, like, oh, cut them in half. It's the
cycle of life, Sarah.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
I feel you your gardeners are a different breed. But
you know, it was like you cultivate.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
It was it was wonderful. You had all these eggs
all the time, and they were fantastic, and it was
so you callic to have them kind of wandering around.
But then you know, we had some stray dogs them
through and wipe out the population once oh rough, and
then another time you know we had another wipe out critters.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, so it.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Wound up just being more trouble than and more dead
bodies than I really I know we're ninety nine percent
murder for here.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
But yeah, but chickens, huh.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yeah, I've picked up a lot of dead chickens business.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well, keep that in mind as we discussed pigeon racing,
because I'm going to return to chickens as an analog
and I just wanted to get them to the four
of your mind.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
Okay, Okay, I guess my.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Second question for you. Yes, the filmmaker Jim Jarmish personal
favorite of mine. I can't believe yours as well.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
I don't know, I don't really care, but yeah, I
know who he is.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
You've seen his movie Ghost Dog Fort Whitaker. Yes, okay,
you remember how Ghost Dog lived on a rooftop and
he kept racing pigeons in a coup.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Okay, keep that in mind. Now. You also have seen
On the Waterfront, which we've mentioned that numerous times. Great
film starring Marlon Brando, Rodstagger, even recing Lee J. Cobb
and Carl Malden quite the asked what a film? Now,
as you no doubt recall I've mentioned it, as I
said recently in the episode about Joe Lo and Leonardo
DiCaprio and the Oscar consider this like a thematic follow up. Elizabeth,

(07:10):
you remember on the Waterfront how Marlon Brando playing boxer
Terry mLOY he kept pigeons in a coop on the
rooftop of a Brooklyn apartment building. Yes, also racing pigeons. Now,
based on your movie watching, I have to assume you
are familiar with the fact folks keep racing pigeons in
coops on rooftops in places like New York City. Yes,
But are you familiar with the theft of those racing pigeons?

(07:32):
You ever heard about that?

Speaker 3 (07:33):
No, such a thing, It's.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Not a kind thing to do. Well, today, you're in
luck because I found a pigeon lover, a pigeon racer
from New York who can provide us an introduction to
the world of both pigeon racing and pigeon theft. And
like Terry molloy, he's also a boxer. Oh his name
Mike Tyson. Wait what Yes, it turns out Mike Iron
Mike loves pigeons.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
Okay, you know at this point you can't be surprise
when someone tells you a fun fact about Mike Tyson.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
No, not anymore.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
Just foolish to be surprised.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
In fact. Also, I got another fun fact for you
if you're in the mood for fun facts. Pigeons are
the reason why Mike Tyson became a boxer. Oh, I'd
swear to good.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
All right, expand on this.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
They were the reason for his first fight and that
got him into the fight game. He fought pigeons, no,
you see. In twenty eleven, he sat down for the
podcast In Depth with Graham Bensinger, and Mike Tyson told
Benzinger and I quote, I had all these birds that
just sadly popped up in this living room of mine.
So some guy I told some friends of mine from

(08:38):
another neighborhood, and they had brought some other guys from
the neighborhood to steal some birds. And this one guy
stole one of the birds, and I after I got
my mother. This is look when I was little, I
got my mother to get my birds. Mom help me. Mom.

Speaker 4 (08:52):
No.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
I don't know about you, Elizabeth, but to me, it's
kind of funny to picture little Mike Tyson running to
his mom's for help because someone stole one of his pigeons. Yeah,
I mean, it's not funny. He was upset, and it's
not funny someone stole one of his birds. None of
that's funny.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
But when I say, when I think little Mike Tyson,
it's just a very small version of the man with
the face square squad ripped like a ripped eight year old.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
But imagine him having to run to his mom to
protect him. That's what I was like tickled by, because
I just think of Mike Tyson as just being a
world class you know. Yeah. So anyway, this guy steals
one of his pigeons, he hurts the bird. I won't
go into it because you wouldn't like it, thank you.
But after that, this bird thieving goon he goes, he
smacks a little Mike Tyson around, I mean, like pick him.

Speaker 3 (09:33):
Up after stealing his pigeons.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yes, and I don't care how little he was at
the time. It's never a good idea to smack Mike Tyson.
And so this homie found that out that very same day.
Because back to Mike Tyson's telling him the story. So
my friend said, Mike, fight him, don't be afraid, fight him,
and if he beats you up, I'll help you, you
know what I mean. He never planned on jumping in
if I got my butt kicked. I know that, but

(09:57):
I thought, and it's not like I would say facial,
I would just flail it away. And I guess I
hit him more than he hit me. So I guess
I won. I guess I don't know. So in a
different interview Tyson did with Details Magazine, he mentioned this
same story and he named the guy who he beat up,

(10:17):
Gary Flowers. That's the dude's name. And Tyson was still
like visibly upset. He was like, he called Gary Flowers.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, I should add that that interview was to hype
up his new pigeon racing reality show that he was
making with Animal Planning U Turn twenty eleven. So yeah,
that's how Mike Tyson hyped his new show.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
He's like this guy telling these sob stories and then
calling out Gary Flowers.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah. Anyway, back to the podcast in Depth with Graham
Bessing Jokes. In that interview, Tyson was asked what he
likes about racing pigeons, and Tyson, you know, grew rather
soft and tender as he talked about his brood of birds.
He said, and I quote, it's just my first love
ever birds flying pigeons. I'm just in an animal freak,
you know. I mean, I know it sounds weird. I'm
an animal freak, even though pigeons is always kicking my butt,

(11:05):
But I mean I love animals, Okay, So I love that.
He's like, you know, I know it sounds weird that
I'm an animal freak, but I'm an animal freak. So
he wasn't obviously being literal that pigeons weren't beating Mike
Tyson up right, but they drove him crazy with all
of their demands and their needs for caregiving because apparently
it's a very hands on care And as he admits,

(11:25):
he knows his love of racing pigeons may sound silly
or in his words and I quote, I know it
sounds ridiculous for somebody to hear some girln man flying
from birds. So you know, he knows he's foolish, but
he doesn't care. He loves his racing. He those pigeons,
not just his racing pigeons. And the amount of people
laughing at him, he ain't listening. He's like, I'm Mike Tyson,
what do I can't? So, as Tyson further explained, and

(11:48):
I quote some people think of them, it's it's rats
with wings. But this is just it's something that it's cultural,
more than more than a hobby. It's just people's cultures.
It's just what we do. So he is the people. Yeah,
and now before we dive deep into this world of
stolen racing pigeons, we need a little background on the sport,
the tradition, sure, because I for one, have never understood

(12:09):
how the sport works. I'm like, how do you race pigeons?
Like do you just like go like around this building?
Like what is it?

Speaker 3 (12:15):
And how do you train them so that they don't
just like.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
People using like the flags to get them to go
fly left?

Speaker 3 (12:23):
And then you see more than I then.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, well that's what I'm here for, Elizabeth, to share
with you what I know.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
But you know of the wide wide world when you
leave the house, the things things.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
You see if you hang out on rooftops like I
often do. Now, humans have bred and used pigeons as
messengers for centuries. I'm talking like dating back to ancient
Egypt really oh yeah, Like they used to use them
to like spread word about the uh, the flooding of
the Nile River, troop movements and then they would like
fly a pigeon over to somebody else.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Some pigeons weren't like invented in the thirties.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
No, they were not invented in the thirties. Now this
long a tradition. Eventually it leads to the use of
homing pigeons in medieval times, right, you know, folks living
at castles, they'd have like a pigeon keeper, and then
they would take them from one castle to another and
then release them and they would go home. And that's
how you would send messages.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
And then the falconer waits in the woods and says, get.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
That would be pigeon theft.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Well yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
This works so well that centuries later in the nineteenth century,
when Baron Julius Reuters started the Reuters news agency in
eighteen fifty, he used a flock of carrier pigeons to
get his news out faster than the telegraph wires in
Europe could convey the same message. Yeah, wow, Elizabeth, you
could say Reuters started out as a pigeon based news service. Yeah,

(13:39):
not be wrong.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
I could say that. I might.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
A century later, during the years of the Cold War,
the CIA got into the pigeon game of course they did.
They love anything. Can we strap it to a dolphin?
I'm about to a pigeon?

Speaker 3 (13:50):
Is it silly?

Speaker 2 (13:51):
So the CIA, can we kill Fidel Castro with this pigeon?

Speaker 3 (13:54):
The pigeon?

Speaker 2 (13:54):
So the CIA guys, they would strap cameras to pigeons
and then send them across the Iron Curtain and deep
into the Soviet Union. And this is how we had
a pigeon based spy networks, early drones basically. Yeah, but
enough about all the history of janic drones. Let's talk
modern pigeon racing. That's what we're here for, can we No?
According to The Guardian, I found a story that the

(14:15):
Guardian did on pigeon racing, and I quote pigeon racing,
once described as the horse racing of the poor, took
root in the coal mining region around Liege in nineteenth
century Belgium. Now I love that turn of phrase, the
horse racing of the poor.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yeah, right right.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
It kind of reminds me like Mark Twain's Jumping Frog
Contest or the mice races in Billy Wilder's Stallic seventeen.
Oh right right. It just reinforces this, you know, common
human desire to gamble, like long before we had to
go whatever calshi or poly market, we were betting on
frogs and mice in pigeons. Yeah, so pigeon racing, What
exactly is a pigeon race? Thank you for asking, Elizabeth welcome. Well.

(14:53):
First off, a racing pigeon can fly about six hundred
miles in a single day.

Speaker 4 (14:58):
Dang.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
You could take a pigeon six hundred miles away, release
it and it would fly back to your coup that
same day.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
For a typical pigeon race, the birds they get released
and then they fly back home to their own loft.
There's no like ribbon in the sky, no finish line.
They just have to make it home and the winner
is whichever pigeon flies home the fastest. Sure, Now to
determine that the pigeons are outfitted with ankle tags that
trigger a sensor at their home loft, and then that's
the virtual finish Okay, okay, the fun fact. Got another

(15:28):
one for you, Elizabeth, Love them. Science still doesn't know
how exactly pigeons find their way back home.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
For the longest time, people speculated the pigeons use the
magnetic field lines of the Earth to navigate turns out
that wasn't exactly the case, as best as science can
figure out. Right now, racing pigeons and all pigeons, they
use their sense of smell to find their way home,
wondering so which is wild, Like there's six hundred miles
from home, and they're like, okay, that way.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
When you don't really think about birds having a sense
of smell, really, I suppose they must.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah, they musk. This is terrible. So this is why
when it comes to racing pigeons, it's not the muscles
that matter. I mean, sure, yes, there are trainers of
racing pigeons that you have opinions and preferences about a
bird's musculature and their feathers and plumage, even their eyes.
But what really matters for a quality racing pigeon is

(16:23):
their nose. And the power of the bird's nose only
reveals itself by racing a pigeon. So it's like, you know,
the proof is in the pudding, or in this case,
in the nose. Now on that note, Elizabeth, now that
we've dipped our toes into the waters of pigeon racing,
after these messages, we'll be back and we will get
into the crime part back in two. Yes, we're back, Elizabeth. Hello,

(17:05):
so pigeon racing. Yes, you're learning so much.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
I am, And I'm wondering, like, what if your coop
on your rooftop is near one of those like huge
commercial bakeries where they make like slice bread okay, and
the smell that smell is so strong, and then you
sticks to let them go five hundred miles away and
they pass one and there's like, am I home?

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah, they get confused.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
And then they go live on someone.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
On top of a wonderbread factory and.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
You lose all your money and your friends.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
And your family of pigeons and.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
Your Yeah, the pigeons are your family.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
At this point I figured that one, how do you
ever find that I know that you are an animal free?

Speaker 3 (17:43):
I am? Where was I? Pigeons?

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Go ahead, the crime part, Elizabeth, Yeah, the crime part, now,
the theft of racing pigeons. From what I read, the
method of theft comes down to two distinct flavors. Okay,
there's the expected human variety, wherein a person steals another
person's bird or birds. But there's also the other variety
that's when a person uses a bird to steal another
person's racing.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
Pigeons, like a non pigeon to steal a racing pigeon, No,
a pigeon, pigeon on pigeon.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah, you may be wondering, Saren, how does a person
use a bird to steal a racing pigge?

Speaker 3 (18:14):
Is that kidnapping like a pigeon napping?

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah? Well I have answers for you.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
Oh, thank you, Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah. To answer your question, I visited one of your
favorite online destinations, Reddit.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
Oh I thought you newspapers dot com. Still looking for
that sponsorship, but I do love Reddit.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
I know you do. How many times do you send
me a screenshot from red a lot? Yeah? Now, not
only did I find discussions about stealing racing pigeons, I
found this guy named thunder Orb who hosted a whole
ama about how he uses pigeons to steal other people's pigeons.
It's wild. Wow, they actually did too, because the first

(18:52):
one didn't catch Nobody saw it, and he's like, maybe
it'll do better here now. As thunder Orb helpfully explains,
there are pigeons called thief powders, or if you want
to be formal, you can use their full name, the
horseman thief powder powder powder, like I'm pouting.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Like, oh ok I got it.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Now over in one of those your favorite Neck of
the Woods, Scotland, they colloquially call the horseman thief powder
a do okay. And there's the human who breeds and
trains them, and they are called a dow man or
a dooman. So we have the dew and the dooman,
or of course there's also do women, So really we
have the dow and the dow man and the dow women,

(19:30):
the whole new family of bird stealing. So as thunder
orb details a do person, we'll find a powder pigeon
who's particularly good at stealing other people's pigeons. It's not
just any pigeon. The dew actually seduces the pigeons of
the opposite sets. They're like Casanova pigeons. Yes, they fly over,
they coo at your pigeon, and before you know it,

(19:53):
off goes your prize pigeon to follow the do back
to his pigeon loft, Like where do you live?

Speaker 3 (19:57):
Righting?

Speaker 2 (19:58):
Oh yeah, This practice of using powder pigeons powder pigeons
to steal another person's racing pigeons has been going on
for centuries, like, but eventually people got pissed about it
and they like, oh, I lost my prize pigeon again.
So laws get passed it against pigeon theft. And that's
how pigeon stealing became not just an outlaw activity but
also an outlaw sport. It's like, yeah, it's like cannonball run. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now,

(20:25):
the breeders of these thief powder pigeons, they first started
with like a friendly competition to see who could steal
the other person's bird, Like I would steal your bird's son, right,
so you can't, which became a game of thief versus thief.
According to thunder Orbs read at Ama as he put it,
and I quote, someone else's thief caught your thief, they
got to keep it. Those are the rules of the game.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
Okay, hey I don't. I don't write the rules.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, apparently no one does.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
So it's like, ther, your pigeon is stolen, and buy
a do and then the dooman is the one to blame.
Can you figure out who the dooman was?

Speaker 2 (21:01):
You can sometimes if you can see it or you
recognize the bird, but it may just be that your
bird's gone.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
Stolen by the do child, as was foretold in Prophecy.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
Exactly, you keep it up, I am. Now. It must
have been fun to play this outlaws sport of I'm
going to Steal your bird, because it soon spread all
across Europe, and it fanned out to other continents as well. Right,
So naturally there was only so many thief powder pigeon
breeders and only so many prize pigeons to steal. So eventually,
to keep things kind of fun and competitive, the doomen

(21:30):
who liked to play I'm going to Steal your Bird,
they added a new wrinkle to their outlaw sport. They
changed the game to who can steal the most feral birds?
So now they're going out and they're trying to Yeah,
this helped ease tensions, as you might imagine, because now
people aren't losing their prize pigeons, so the thieving game
became focused on birds no one owns.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
Right, So you just go to like the square in Milan.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yehief, like, just grab a few and you see how
many you can get.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Have you ever seen where the like hold bird feed
and let that turn flying raps?

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Basically, if you still like a statue. They will totally
land likes and they'll probably crap on you. It's a
great fun.

Speaker 3 (22:08):
We have fun.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Now back to my man thunder orb and is helpful
Ama as he put it, and I quote. While catching
Farrells lack some of the excitement of trying to steal
other thieves, it does present its own challenges. Farrells are
much more wary of people and pigeon lofts than a
domestic pigeon would be, so it can be hard for
the thieves to actually lure them into the loft.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
And then you got to break them pigeons.

Speaker 4 (22:33):
Now.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
National Geographic wrote about the Scottish tradition of dues and
doo men and dou women and how the Scots are
keeping the tradition of this outlaw game alive in modern
day times. Apparently it's still super popular in housing projects
of Edinburgh and Glasgow and the National Geographic they the
way they describe it, and I quote in these neighborhoods
where levels of unemployment are high, the activity keeps kids

(22:56):
and adults alike involved in something positive to put wow.
So this photographer who documents the sport, this guy Robert
or Maraud He told National Geographic that quote for the young,
do flying provides focus, structure, and a reason to stay
out of trouble in areas where crime, substance abuse, and
teen pregnancy are high.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
There's nothing that will kill a teen pregnancy more than
being a doom and they're not going to be impregnating any.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Girls talking to an. I do love this logic though.
It's like, look, yo, way, barons, we want to keep
you out of trouble, so why don't you steal each
other's birds?

Speaker 3 (23:35):
Can I imagine they've got like some creepy dudes who's
like their their mentor who's teaching. They have to like
work out and do like push ups and stuff like.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Their false staff character.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
Yes, yes, And then they're all on the roof and
they're just drinking like Iron Brew and Buckfast.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
One, meaning this is what chip Buddy sandwiches.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
The chip Buddy, you got the deep fried pizza exactly.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
Now, the way the Scout's played the outlaw game of
I'm gonna steal your it is rather simple, straightforward as now,
So Geographic explains. Here's how it works. On a nice day,
Dooman might send out one of his pigeons, which they
keep in their lofts, living rooms, or homemade sheds. Arrival
dooman looking out of the window of his house or
sitting outside in his garden may spot the bird above

(24:17):
the neighborhood and will then quickly choose one of his
own birds to release.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
I love that they're talking about people like these oddities.
Geographic there it is, but also people keep them in
their living of course.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah. I usually have like a pair of keep when
as a kid, oh man, can they make a lot
of the filth?

Speaker 3 (24:36):
Filth?

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Filthy? We briefly they shed their feathers and the crap
on top of the shedded feathers and it creates the smell.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
You're just like, we had one briefly growing up, and
they were silent except for when you turn the TV on.
Oh and then they just would shut up. One it was,
and so he gave it away.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah. I came home to my bird hanging upside down
and his beak had fallen off, and I was like,
it's like, okay, I guess it was horrifying to me.
It had an illness.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
I was like, twelve, an undisclosed illness, please respect its privacy.
At this time, we were just like my grandma just
I mean she she could only do maybe a couple
of weeks with the smell and the noise, and we're like, no,
we'll keep it clean.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
And yeah, my mom was very broad minded about all
by various animals. I brought home.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
There was no bird, and she said she gave it away,
And I think she gave it away to the trees outside,
opened up the cage, pretend that dew came in the
parke like pepe and come with me.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
So this is the point is where things get interesting
for the dooman is once they released their birds and
they've seen someone else's been a powder pigeon above them,
They're like, oh so as now she geographic describes it.
The birds fly toward each other as the dooman attentively
watched from below, mimicking the cooling sounds of the birds
in encourage. If they are lucky, it is their due

(26:02):
which lures its mate back to its home base. Once
the visiting bird is perched on just the right part
of the hut, the dooman pulls a rope attached to
a net, capturing the bird.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
And stick something out of the cartoon totally right.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
So being Scotland. Of course, after this point everyone retires
to the local pub. They get drunk and they brag
about all the birds they bagged.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Now sometimes they'll trade birds or they'll sell them to
each other, like I need a champion bird like a
powder pigeons. Yeah, now that's if things go well. Other
times there are hurt feelings someone say, you know, like
they keep losing their bird, right, they get the injured
pride they you know, they're getting tired of and make
fun of, or they just have anger because like maybe
personal issues and this is just the last straw I

(26:45):
don't know, but it can lead to bad behavior the
original one that they were trying to get people to avoid, because,
as the photographer Ormrod put it, in the past, huts
have been burnt down, pigeons get stolen, and people have
been stabbed. Whoa, oh yeah, it feels really human that
a game of pigeons theft can suddenly turn into arson
or stab escalat. We're such emotional creatures, you really are.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
I mean you see like with World Cup, these fans
I love the back and forth between the nations and
how they get along. But sometimes you see just fights
breakout and it's because they're all amped up. Oh yeah,
come on.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah, you get kind of that tribal feeling and squash it.
Your pride is all flared up. Anyway, back to my
man thunder Orb and his redditt Ama, because there is
so much more that goes into the ancient turned modern
outlaws sport, as thunder Orb helpfully explains, humans are often
more like chickens than pigeons, and he should know because

(27:39):
like you, he is a human who keeps both chickens
like you and pigeons not like you like me. Now,
as thunder Orb put it, and I quote, I enjoy
my chickens and pheasants. Sure, but they are so damn
aggressive cocks killing each other over their desire to mate,
Others killing each other because they've just seen a little
bit of blood and exploit the wound for food, needing
plenty of space. Just don't pluck each other out out

(28:01):
of boredom and stress. These are things you rarely hear
about in pigeons.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
Oh well, I'm not familiar with a lot with chickens.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
That's why I want to some vampire pigeon or chickens put.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
Some food out. Then they won't have to eat at
each other.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
No, Apparently the pigeons social tendencies are the in the
bird world. They like some like high praise belongs to
the pigeon. People are like, oh man, you got to
be like a pigeon.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
Well, this guy's got pheasants.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Oh yeah, he's got them always.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
I bet she has reptiles in the house.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
I don't know if he mixed that. I don't know
if you're a bird person and a reptile.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
I think he's just a what can I not hug on?
That's the pet I want?

Speaker 2 (28:40):
So it's thunder Or helpfully explains about why pigeons enjoy
a much different social life. They can have best friends
that aren't their mate, who they prefer to fly and
forage with. They can form nesting friendships where two or
more cocks will band together to protect one's nests from
a would be usurper. Heck, they can even be gay,
and a pair of gay cut often make better parents

(29:01):
than a cock hen pair. So you know, there you go.
Now when it comes toture, yeah, so you no what
it comes to. How a thief powder pigeon successfully seduces
other pigeons, regardless of which sex they're seducing. They then
convince them to come back to their pigeon loft, like
you want to see my prints I've.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Been looking basically.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
So thunder Orp says, it explains quote it can be
kind of hard to explain to people outside the hobby,
but essentially thief powders are uber seductive and have this
drive and skill to turn on other pigeons. Think of
a peacock with his train, or those cool videos of
birds with wild plumage dancing around and singing power birds. Yeah, right,

(29:39):
So this is what the breeders keep an eye on,
the seductive charms of a champion thief power with.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
Like curly feathers on the chest and gold.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Chains exactly, maybe a little process in their hair now.
As thunder Arb reports it, thieves are bred to exude
so much confidence and sexiness they're hard to resist. They're
so good at their jobs that even hens can lure
in other hens.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
I don't know, how do you identify confidence and sexiness
just by watching?

Speaker 2 (30:08):
I think I gotta see it, Like.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
You've spend too much time looking at pigeons.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Like my pigeons have gone Polly's and I'm really confused
about Like I just also love. As I was reading
about this, how horny nature is. You know, it doesn't
matter what animal you're talking about, that is true for
the most part. You often will find a horny version
of right. Also, get this, humans aren't immune to the
charms of a sexy pigeon. You were asking, how do
you know, Well, you got to spend some time around

(30:33):
some pigeons, and some folks will develop crushes on their
birds and not like you know, cross species love affairs.
I don't mean that, but if they're honest with themselves,
they'll grow attached to their certain pigeons in their loft
who are particularly seductive.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
We had, we got a problem with people not spending
enough time with other people.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
This happened to Iron Mike Dyson because, as he told
the podcast host Benzinger, and I quote, there's one bird
in that that I'm attaching to and really crazy. It's
a solid white bird. And I really don't like solid
white birds that much because they dropped too much attention
for birds of prey and stuff. But I had this
bird since two thousand and one and he's just a

(31:11):
really really like it's a super stud guy. You know,
he's been around and I had him and his brother,
and they've produced a lot of cool birds. So Mike
has a man crush on one of his pigeons. How
cute is that?

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Sure? Okay, quote unquote cute.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Let's get back to the crimes, because there's plenty more
of that. As I set up top. There's two varieties
of pigeon theft. There's the bird based kind, where the
powder pigeons compete in an outlaw game of pigeon theft, right,
where they seduce other pigeons and convince them to follow
me home. Sure, But there's also the variety that we
would recognize, which is I'm a human, I'm going to
steal your bird.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
Yeah, that makes more sense to me.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
When we steal birds, it's not as cute. It's not
as SI.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
Lotter about you. When I steal birds, it's cute as heck.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
It's driven by the more traditional motivations of crime, as
in a good racing pigeon is worth a lot of
money and people are like, I'm going to steal that.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
Right, So right, I knew the money. Follow the money's there, you.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Know how it goes. Now, Although you'll find pigeon racing
in the US and South Africa and Thailand and China.
The center of the world for pigeon racing is Belgium,
and thus it's home to most of the theft are
racing pigeons. Yeah, Elizabeth, if you had to guess, how
much do you think a prize racing pigeon is worth
on the open market.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
I don't know, like four grand.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
One point nine million dollars stop.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
This is the.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Record amount paid back in twenty twenty, a Chinese buyer
paid that tidy little sum for a Belgian racing pigeon
named New Kim. You know, like New Coke but New Kim. Yeah.
I don't know about.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
Almost like another kind of money laundering, like no modern art.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
It's wilder than that.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
That is insane.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah. So naturally, when you have racing pigeons that command
that kind of price, well you know what that means.
You get crime. So in this case it's international organized
crime that entered the picture.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
How would you like to be part of an organized
crime crew and the other guys are doing cool stuff
and you get sent to do stealing pigeons when you're.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Three knitwich, I want to be a bookie. I gotta okay,
I can't even like you know, steal siger.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
I'll even go drive the garbage truck. Nope, steal me
some pigeons.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Back in twenty twenty five. Last year, the Associated Press
reported a story on this growing trend of stolen racing
pigeons in Belgium, and as Raife Cassart, the writer for
the AP, put it, Belgium's only pastoral pastime of pigeon
racing has come to this. Drone swoop over lofts where
valuable birds are housed to look for security weaknesses. Laser

(33:35):
sensors set off alarms at night, and cameras linked live
to mobile apps keep potential thieves at bay twenty four
to seven.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
I love the mix of the analog and the digital.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
So there's this other cat, Pascal Bondengian, who is the
head of the Belgian Pigeon Racing Federation, and he was
interviewed for that same story from the AP, and he said,
not a week goes by without a theft somewhere. That's
how much which is popping off.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
I can't get my head around.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Well, it brings us to Franz Boungeneres. He is a
breeder of champion Belgian racing pigeons. He jumped into the
sport back when he was just eight years old. These
days he's in his sixties and has enjoyed a life
colored by pigeon racing and pigeon breeding. And the new
trends of pigeon based crimes are breaking his heart, Elizabeth.
But not only that, they're also costing him a pretty

(34:23):
penny because Frowns Boomers had twice been Belgium's national champion
of racing pigeons after he won the Barcelona Ultra marathon
race for pigeon it's called the International Barcelona. He won
it not once but two times. And in that marathon race,
pigeons fly from Catalonia back to Belgium in one day.
It's like about one day, yeah, about twelve hundred kilometers,

(34:43):
which is about seven hundred and forty five miles. So
he won that race with his prize pigeon named Iron
Lady Ellie. Oh yeah. But then months later, in November
of twenty sixteen, well aware of who he was and
what championed sorts of pigeons he kept, a band of
pigeon thieves came onto his property, broke into his and
entered his garden shed where he kept his pigeon loft,
and the thieves got away with sixty of his best birds,

(35:06):
including Iron Lady Ellie No Yeah, and his friends. Bougigniere
told the AP it was such an incredible blow for me.
I can tell you honestly, I cried like a little
boy because my life's work was completely destroyed. I was
I was broken. If you have those successes and those
birds are then taken away, you know that it takes years, right,

(35:27):
so hard. But he didn't quit the game, Elizabeth, I mean,
how could he. He's been at a citude was eight
years old.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
Well, now vengeance will be his exactly.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
He's got focus now. So instead he started back up
from scratch and he rebuilt his collection of champion racing pigeons. Yeah,
since it was a crime France, he turned to the
law to make things right. But the prosecutor was like,
so someone stole your pigeons, and you want me to
do something about this, and Bougonniers was like, yes, there
are world class racing pigeons. This is a terrible loss,

(35:55):
and then the prosecutor kind of scoffed. But the law
did eventually look into the theft, and finally in twenty twenty,
he got some justice. The prosecutor pursued his case and
eventually sentenced three Romanians with the theft. Oh the three
were sentenced in absentia because and they were given a
sentences of thirty months in prison, fine three hundred and
forty thousand euros. Right, yeah, but the Romanians were never
handed over for their prison sentence, so it was more

(36:17):
like a symbolic right. The shame of it all from
the standpoint of the pigeons is that once a racing
pigeon has been stolen like that, their racing career it's over.
Well then why okay, because the pigeon racing community documents
the bird, so it's impossible to enter a stolen bird
into a race without someone figuring out.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
That the bird is stolen.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Because of breeding, Elizabeth, they got those good champion racing
pigeon g yeah, yeah, and then they so they turn
him into a stud pigeon and they use them to
breed new generations of champion pigeons. The one small irony
is that Franz Bougigniers was a policeman. He's not retired,
but not even a policeman could expect to get justice
when his champion racing pigeons are stolen. You can imagine

(36:56):
how it goes with someone who has no connection to
the justice system, as Bougigne as we called to the Guardian.
I remember a colleague of mine who went into the
prosecutor's office and the magistrates said, gentlemen, what are we
going to do? Start prosecuting the theft of chickens, rabbits
and pigeons.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
The guy's like, yeah, well, you know, isn't that like
your job prosecuting theft? And it doesn't matter if we
think what was stolen was cool or notice exactly. But
this is what pigeon breeders and pigeon racers are up against.
Everyone dismisses their losses and their Meanwhile, they're like, my
bird's worth a million.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Dollars, so much discrimination.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
So to the outsiders, their sports seems utterly ridiculous, and
the crimes are treated as equally ridiculous. As I said,
When people are paying more than a million pounds or
dollars for a champion racing pigeon, obviously thieves are going
to keep at it. Yeah, and it's too lucrative not
to make a go for it. Yeah, yeah, so now
that we've gotten into that, I've saved the best for last,
a real case study. But first let's take a break,

(37:54):
and after these messages we'll look into the roving bands
of pigeon thieves and the international black market for stolen
racing pigeons. We're back, Elizabeth. Hello, it's good.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
It sounds like kind.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
I recognized it. I know what it was.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
So, so far we've covered the dudes, the doomen, the
do women, child those who love them, and we've covered
seductive thief pigeons and the outlaw games of bird nabbing.
We also covered the world of pigeon racing and the
selective breeders right and then, like Mike Tyson's whole involvement
a million dollar champion birds, now it's time to meet
the denizens of organized crime who turned that world into

(38:55):
their own hunting ground for easy stolen profits. So, according
to the twenty twenty five story from The Guardian, quote well,
organized criminal gangs from Eastern Europe are suspected of targeting
particular birds or owners with the goal of seizing champions
to breathe their offspring. And that's obviously what happened to
Franz Bougionnet. But when when he and the law enforcement

(39:15):
eventually tracked down his birds, they found that it was
a gang of Romanian pigeon thieves. Right, So is this
just like another case of let's blame the Eastern Europeans
for the cross a lot of people in Europe? Oh yeah?
Or is this actually a legitimate trend and it just
happens to be parallel to a lot of prejudice.

Speaker 3 (39:32):
Yeah, I don't like people picking on Eastern Europeans.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
You know, I'm going to stand up for him.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
God bless Now.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
According to Patrick Marcier, who is the Secretary General of
the Royal Belgian Pigeon Federation, and I quote, the problem
has always existed, but in the last year it's exploded.
It is not at all by chance. It is a
network that is very well organized, that knows exactly what
it wants, and they have drones. Now yeah, I mean,
come on, now, that alleged network does include Eastern Europeans,

(39:57):
but the deep pocketed buyers are for somewhere else entirely.
So really they are more like the go betweens that
that's somewhere exists under the flag of communist rule. Yes,
that's right. China.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah, to explore this Romania meets China crime connection, Elizabeth,
I'd like you to meet Tom van Gevier. He is
what the Belgians call a fancier, and I don't expect
you to know what that means. I mean, I know
you know what fancy means, but a fancier is a
term for the Flemish farmers who were super into pigeon racing.
And Tom van g yeah, he comes from a long

(40:33):
line of Flemish fanciers. Now, his father raised pigeons. His
father's grandfather, his great grandfather, was also a pigeon racer.
You could say pigeon racing is in his blood. Yeah,
Now thirty nine years old, he's been racing pigeons since
he was five years old. They all start young. Yeah,
And honestly, though, what five year old wouldn't be impressed
by a pigeon that flies at like fifty miles an

(40:54):
hour for hundreds and hundreds of miles. Can you own that?
You're like, I'm going to release him. Yeah, so anyway,
and he's gonna fly to Spain tomorrow. We'll be back.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
Bring me some sausage.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Interestingly, just like Franz Bougonniers. Tom van Gevert was also
in law enforcement. In his case, he was a secretary
for the local police department. Why so many cops and
copp adjacent folks are individual racing I do not know,
But Elizabeth, I wish I could tell you. I'd speculate though,
if you asked me, like and I had been add
a couple of beers, I'd be like, you know, I
think it is. I think they come from working class

(41:24):
families and they you know, they like the gambling and
they fancied racing animals that they could afford.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
But like I said, I do not know pure speculation.
What I do know is is Tom van Gevert he
raised some of the most valuable pigeons in the world.
Which brings us to the Chinese connection. So you know
how the Chinese economy has grown like a fertilized weed
in the twenty first century. Yes, well, the Washington Post
pointed out in a twenty twenty five story the Chinese
economy was once smaller than Italy's. This was back in

(41:52):
the year two thousand, but by twenty eighteen, the Chinese
economy had eclipsed all of the European Union. The whole
thing smaller than Italy, too, bigger than everyone.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
Dang, which is last like twenty years.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
In like eighteen years. Yeahs, which is why the ultra
wealthy of Communist China suddenly got heavy into new hobbies
like pigeon racing.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
So, in twenty nineteen, at an auction in Belgium, a
Chinese buyer paid one point four million dollars for a
pigeon named Ottomando. Yes. Now, the very next year, twenty twenty,
a Chinese buyer set a new record by paying one
point nine million for the aforementioned pigeon New Kim.

Speaker 4 (42:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Now, that's about the same amount of money you'd spend
to buy like a champion racehorse.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
You'd want to breathe exactly, That's what I was thinking.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
So meanwhile, over in China, pigeon racing grows so fast
and so furious that the winner of a high stakes
pigeon race could take home a prize pool of one
hundred million dollars. Stop, yes, one hundred million dollars. Like,
that's where the crime comes in is because in China,

(42:56):
if you got one of these champion pigeons, you can
make like generation changing wealth.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
Now, so and this is so the winner takes it
is that where's this money coming from.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
It's like a pool, so people are all throwing it in. Yeah, exactly, Okay,
So you see, the Chinese buyers were quick to learn
that some of the world's most valuable racing pigeons were
kept by a man named Tom van Govier. So soon enough,
Chinese buyers and their Flemish translators started showing up at
Van Goevier's farmhouse looking to swing a deal for one
of his birds. I they're pulling up in like super
expensive cars, like multiple because it's like, you know, like

(43:26):
a group of them. They get out with their translator.
This guy is just like a humble dude in the
like the Belgian hinterlands, and you know sometimes he's got
several buyers coming by his house in a week and
he's like what is going on?

Speaker 3 (43:38):
Right?

Speaker 2 (43:39):
So there was one bird in particular that they were
all after. They're like, I must have this one, right,
So Tom van Govier he had named his prized racing
pigeon Finn, like Huckleberry Finn, Finn McCool. Oh yeah, exactly,
Finn McCool or twotuola Finn Finn.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
Let's say, okay, it's named after Detective Finn Toula.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
So he Finn was also nicknamed the Mona Lisa of
the pigeon world.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
Oh, which is a woman.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
This is tat ironic because, as we've discussed previously, the
Mona Lisa really only became world famous and valuable because
it was stolen. But I digress now, Finn the racing pigeon,
was nearly a foot tall. I want you to be
able to picture him. He stood at eleven inches.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
That's a big old dude.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
Yeah, but he would weighed only one pound because you know,
birds need to be light, and they got the hollow
bones and all. And he's obviously a certified winner. He
had won multiple pigeon racing championships by the time he
was just two years old and thus well healed. Chinese
buyers desperately wanted him, as Van Gevier recalls, and I
quote they acted like they could change my mind if
they showed me enough money. But that's not how I work,

(44:45):
oh right, So instead of selling his prize pigeon, Van
Givier would sell the offspring of Finn like he was
some stud thoroughbred race horse get Van Gavier bred Finn,
and he was willing to part with the sired birds
for like, yeah, a few thousand couple eggs. Yeah, so
he sold mini offspring of Fin so many that he
started a business called TVG Pigeons. The company's motto that's

(45:06):
your dreams of winning, Take flight, Elizabeth. I'd like you
to meet another key person in this story. Her name
is Maggie Lou. She was an aristocrat of communist China,
which sounds like an oxymoron, but totally it's not. China
has created a very different form of communism than what
Mark's originally imagined, very very diff So it's complete with

(45:26):
glamorous twenty something aristocrats who travel the world and becomes
something like a broker for racing pigeons, which is exactly
what Maggie lu did, although she would probably prefer that
I call her a pigeon influencer. That's what she calls herself. No, yes,
I thought we were.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
Going to say that, like, you know, as a snarky thing.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Yeahative, that's what she prefers. Yeah, okay, So in twenty nineteen,
when the price is in China skyrocketed for racing pigeons.
Lou she read which way the wind blew and she
jumped into the business. She started posting on social media
and Mandarin, and she called herself Little Princess of the
pigeon world. And as a pigeon influencer, she traveled to Belgium,
to the heart of pigeon racing, and she shared posts

(46:06):
about pigeon races and people like Tom van Goevier and
his champion pigeons, and she turned him into a star
in China.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
I see.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
That led to her becoming a legitimate pigeon broker, and
many of the ultra wealthy asked how they could get
their hands on one of them Van Goevier birds like Finn.
So she traveled China and she showed off all the
ostentatious excesses of Chinese pigeon breeders and the Chinese pigeon
racers what they enjoyed, Like they built special houses. You

(46:36):
just imagine what rich people do. It's all of that,
but for pigeons, right, So imagine like a like a
like a doghouse. It's like a four story doghouse for pigeons, right.
So many of the folks they had offspring of Finn
in their like decadent pigeon lofts, and for instance she
shared posts with the offspring and these I found their names.
There was like Little Finn, Supreme Finn, Crazy Fin, and

(47:01):
my favorite hot Fin. Yeah, got to my hot Fin.
So just as racing pigeon mania was sweeping across China,
it caught the attention of the anti corruption campaign of
Chinese Premier Jixiping. He was firmly against as we've covered
illegal gambling, corruption of any kind if you follow the news,

(47:22):
and also Chinese folks who flaunt their wealth.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
He's doing a great job stamping that out.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah, right, all of this which was on display in
the world of Chinese pigeon racing. You had illegal gambling,
you had corruption, and you had Chinese folks that were
flaunting their wealth. So in twenty twenty three comes a
crackdown specifically on pigeon racing, and it has to go underground. So,
as The Washington Post reported in their twenty twenty five story,
the biggest and most high profile racing pigeon clubs in

(47:47):
China gets involved in this case of embezzlement, and as
the Post reported, quote state media picked up the case
as an example of corruption and theft that needed to
be excised from Chinese culture. So after this high profile
criminal case, pigeon racing goes fully underground. Now it's only
black market.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
I am sure made it even more appealing to people.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Oh yeah, you know how that goes so sexy exactly,
It's like a bare knuckle boxing gives and yeah in
the UK. So this meant for deep pocketed buyers they
now had to source their birds from the international black
market into the Romanians willing to fill that gas, which
of course led to the recent wave of pigeon racing

(48:29):
crime or pigeon race theft, thank you, theft of pigeon racing. Rather,
let me tell you about what a racing pigeon theft
looks like. Elizabeth.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
I'd like you to close your eyes, my eyes a close.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
I want you to picture it. Elizabeth. It's November twenty
twenty four and at the moment you are in Mortselaer,
in the Belgian province of Flanders, and you are a
racing pigeon. It's not a bad light. You live in
a retail rehirement loft, surrounded with some of your best

(49:02):
bird friends, living the good life. At the moment. It's
nighttime and you are all bedded down. But what you
don't know is your whole world is about to get
rocked because there's a team of three thieves spying on
your loft, and two of them decide it's now time
to make their move. Two of them cut their way
through the hedgerows and the fences of neighboring homes until

(49:25):
finally they get into the backyard where your pigeon loft
is located. Once they make their move into the backyard,
they climb up onto your pigeon loft and they cut
a hole in the roof that weighs you up, all.

Speaker 5 (49:37):
Of your bird best friends, and it become pandemonium in
your retirement long when the two thieves drop down through
the hole land inside right near you. Before you or
any of your bird best friends know what's going on
or can escape through the hole in the roof.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
The thieves get to work. The thieves check the name
plates on the leg tags of each pigeon. When they
find a name they recognize, they chuck the pigeon into
a bag, a clear plastic bag. Wings flap in the panic,
but it does no good. Once the pigeons are in
the bag and then you feel hands wrap around your wings.
After a quick check, you too are chucked into a bag,

(50:16):
and then they find the prize thereafter. It's a pigeon
named Finn, the most famous racing pigeon in the world.
He also gets chucked into a plastic bag. And then
as the remaining pigeons flap and call for their stolen
friends or for their dooming, the thieves smash the door
of the aviary and make your escape. And just like that, Elizabeth,

(50:38):
you have become both a victim and evidence of a crime.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
Oh no, no, I don't like that.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
That was how Tom van Gevier lost the Mona Lisa
of the pigeon world. You see, the next morning he
discovered the theft when he came out to his pigeon
loft and he saw the door to his aviary had
been smashed out from the inside. Yeah, and he hung
around with cops as they told you see one and
one together and got to two real quick. So he
rushes inside and he confirms that five of his prize

(51:06):
birds had been stolen, most importantly Finn, the most famous
pigeon in the world. So for weeks Tom is inconsolable
he he would step outside. He looked to the skies
forlornly in that vain hope that he might catch sight
of Finn winging his way home after escaping from the
clutches of the bird nappers. But Elizabeth that day never came,

(51:27):
so he turned to his colleagues, the police, which remember
he works for. So one might hope that these police
would take his prize pigeon theft. Seriously, is he just
the weirdo in the other Elizabeth. They did not. The
police didn't care that the world's most famous raising pigeon
had been stolen.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
Well, and it's like it's his prized possessions. But they're
also living things. Now, as you said, people, they grow
attached to think about our pets.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Totally, you know, And yeah, I just come as came
into your house and stole your dog.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
I don't even want to imagine.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Imagine your dog was worth a million dollars to so
now you're imagine, hello, sorry, I meant imagine if it
was worth more than a million dollars.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
They're priceless, priceless little special angels.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
The little irony in this is if it was a
bigger animal, a furry animal like a racehorse raturally, the
cops would have cared, Oh yeah, but not so far
as you put it a rat with wings.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
Well, see, in your mind, you know, you think like
these pigeons on the street, and they're expendable, you know,
like there's tons of yeah, and some of them got
those mangled up feet for them, but you're like.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Well, luk, that kind of goes a little sideways.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
And they're just eating like a cheeto with like.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
What's left of a burger and a wrapper that's in
a gutter. To the police when he goes to them,
they don't care. And then they still don't care when
there's a rash of other pigeon thefts in the area.
Fourteen birds here, twenty nine birds there, thirty two birds
from another breed.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
How many more police take before you get they should
make a sign and stand in front of the police station.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
How many more the theft At this point they're racking up, right,
and if you counted the value, we're well into the
millions for all the lost prize racing pigeons that are
being stolen. After the local police his co workers brush
him off Van Giverer, he turned to the federal police.
He sends them a strongly worded email, and Van Gaverer
recalls to them they're just pigeons. So then the local

(53:21):
news covered this crime trend of pigeon theft. This catches
the attention of a police investigator, not one of his coworkers.
Her job was to bust high profile robberies. She's watching
the news and she thinks, this is really something we
should investigate. Yeah, so she tells her boss and, as
she told the Guardian, her boss was like, pigeons, I
don't think so.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
She's like, have you seen how much these things are worth?

Speaker 2 (53:41):
It didn't matter apparently. Meanwhile, the high dollar pigeon thefts
keep racking up, until finally across his two point five
million euros worth of pigeons had been stolen. And this
is when the federal police finally notice and they inform
her boss, the one who said pigeons, I don't think so,
and they tell him investigate. So he comes back to
this police inspector who was unnamed by the Guardian because

(54:03):
she works under cover. So this undercover investigator, she tells
the Guardian quote, he was like, we really should investigate
those pigeon thefts. So now she's got you.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
Know, can they ensure these pigeons?

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Yeah, but what does that matter? I mean, I don't
actually fully know they can ensure them to their true value.
They probably can't, not to their true value.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
If if they were reporting these stolen over and over
again and the insurance company's paying out, they'd be the
ones who.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Pigeons don't have a value till they're sold. You know,
you can say, like I've got a champion pigeon, it's
worth this much, but it's really like I was offered
this much.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
Just got to be an amazing Belgian pigeon.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Appraiser probably if not, get on at somebody.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
That's what I mean. This whole story is just giving
me fake jobs to tell people I have new jobs for. Yeah. Yeah,
like you know I'm the child of a Belgian pigeon. Yeah,
and you know that's why I'm a trust fund kid
or you know, here's my fromer.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
So at this point, now we've got this undercover investigator
on the case, right, so she she gets to name
her investigation. So she calls it operation Come Come, Come Come,
because that's a cute name. Stop it right, for how
the Flemish pigeon breeders call their birds.

Speaker 3 (55:17):
Home, like you know, I love how like bird calls
her dog sounds or whatever different, you know, cook it
off or whatever. Great, But is it come come operation? Well,
come come come.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
It was a serious investigation, though, right She's focused on
getting justice, so much so that she says, my husband
had to tell me to please stop talking about pigeons
at home. She was exactly regardless of like all of this.
She was relentless, no matter how much she'd been dismissed.
Her husband said, stopped talking about this and passed me
the men is from my fries. She led her team

(55:54):
to collect evidence and she looks at the CCTV footage.
She checks cell phone records of all the people who
were in the area at the time of the thefts.
She creates this map of all the thefts and she
marks them with pins like she's looking for like the
Zodiac killer. And eventually they have a suspect of loses daughter. Ionika,
the forty five year old was a Romanian national living

(56:15):
in Belgium with his wife and five children. Notably, he
was a semi pro pigeon racer. He was in the community.
He was an inside job. He'd even entered his urge
into some of the prestigious races like the International Barcelona
that I told you about, the Ultra marathon race for pigeons,
but none of his birds finished in the top one
thousand thousand. Oh yeah, they released like three thousand birds,

(56:38):
four thousand birds in these races. Yeah. So anyway, the
Belgian task force taps his phone and they run surveillance
on the Anika. This was enough to get a warrant
for his home, and so one morning in March of
twenty twenty five, more than a dozen officers from a
Belgian task force raided this modest, two story house. They
sweeped through the home. They discovered Innika's pigeons loft in

(56:59):
the backyard. Inside that there were roughly seventy pigeons. The
police also found a locked door to a separate cage,
and inside that cage were seventeen other pigeons, all of
whom were stolen.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
This sounds like an episode of SPU where they like
go into the basement you find all these people who
have been kidnapped, and then they kick out the other
door and then they're stolen pigeons, stolen pigeons or it
sounds like one of those.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Like European detective shows you watch yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
So this totally I could see this on like Shetland, Yeah,
there you go, or a delightful episode of the Room.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
At this point, Ian Nika he gets arrested. His cell
phone's laptops, they're seized. The police discovered that he and
Nika had asked Google things like when are of Barcelona
pigeon Race, and then he'd also looked up the name
of the owner and then oh, he checked the pigeon
racing websites and that's where he found the home addresses
of the pigeon fanciers. Apparently they just listed their home
addresses on the pigeon racing websites. I'm like, what's up

(57:56):
with your opseet guys.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
It was a more innocent time.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Was he was able to, you know, focus in on
Tom van Gevir and then the Pigeon Task Force. They
learned that Ianika had called his parents in Romania and
asked them to take care of his racing pigeons, and
in one wiretapped Callanika asked his parents, you're taking good
care of the pigeons, right. So this was enough to

(58:20):
suspect that Ianika had driven stolen racing pigeons to his
parents place in Romania for safe keeping. So now the
Belgian detectives and task force members they fly to Bucharest
and they coordinate with their Romanian counterparts, the Romanian police.
They were already familiar with Euonika. They're like, what do
you do now, that's why we deported him. So together
they traveled to a region of Romania called Brisnito Okol, right,

(58:43):
and that's where pigeon racing happened to be a very
popular new sport. Like even the mayor was involved, like
everybody was like, oh, real pigeon racers here in Brisnito Okol.
So that's also, by the way, where Ionika's parents house was.
So that worked out. So the Belgian and the Romanian
police they paid the parents a visit, armed with a
search warrant, they raid the home. They interrogate his parents,

(59:05):
apparently after he had been arrested and locked up. Okay,
but it is like I don't know if you get
one phone call in Europe, but he called his his
parents and he instructed them hide the birds. So his
parents did as instructed. The Belgians and the Romanians they
find no stolen racing pigeons. So now the Belgian task force,
like you know, heads hung, low, energy depleted. They had

(59:25):
to go back to the airport and fly home and
be like, sorry, boss, I know our expenditures are going
to be really crazy with this one. We didn't find
any birds. So they're totally utterly defeated. But when they're
at the airport, they receive a call. It was their
Romanian counterparts guests who just got pulled over with a
load of stolen racing pigeons. It was because Nice in

(59:46):
the back of like a wood paneled station. Basically she
had sixty nine stolen pigeons in the car with her car.
Car with sixty nine pigeons. I don't even know how
you've fed them. See the smell of all that yet.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
Well, and how horrible for the pigeons.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
We're thinking from the pigeon perspective, stolen another shut together.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Please don't ignore the pigeon perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
So when the Belgians hear you are the good news
right there at the airport, what do they do? They
high five?

Speaker 5 (01:00:12):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
I love how far the high five is traveled the
stolen pigeons. Can you also imagine that, like it's like
at the end of a movie like Yay Frozen in
the Air. So the stolen pigeons they get sent to
Belgium where the owners are invited to come down to
the cop shop and see if they can identify their
stolen birds. And then soon they're going to be DNA
tested and all that. So Van Goever, as soon as
he hears he makes the trip dout to the police station.

(01:00:33):
He's hoping like hell that that legendary Finn was among
the recovered racing pigeons. He checks all the cages, he
looks over the rescued birds. He finds two are his birds.
Both were sired grandchildren of his prize pigeon Fin. But
sadly there was no fin part in the expression. He
was still in the wind now. Van Goeverer took home

(01:00:55):
the two recovered pigeons and returned them to his loft,
which now resembled a prison because he didn't you know,
he built search lights and laser fences and do it drone,
Do you get the whole thing? But his mona Lisa
of the pigeon World, was never to be seen again,
most likely already sold to a wealthy buyer who most
likely lives somewhere in communist China, but we don't know.
But after that, Elizabeth concludes our tour of the weird

(01:01:17):
and wonderful world of pigeon theft. So I have to
ask you, now, what's your ridiculous takeaway?

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
But this should be a movie, and we need to
get a role for Jean Claude van Dam in it,
like a fancy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
It would be really good in this Jean Claude van
Dam and Tom Hardy and I don't care who's who.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Who's a bad rival pigeon racers who then get their
pigeons stolen? Then they have to team up, yes, and
then they go just wreck shop.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Yeah, and of course we just throwing Mike Tyson just
for like a.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
Cameo cameo cameo at like Barcelona. You know, I'm writing
in my head right now.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
I love it, my ridiculous takeaway, thank you for I
love the human even though it's really about pigeons. I
love the light this on humanity. Do you get all
of humanity in this? You get the animal lovers, you
get the hope, you get the tradition, you get the
my grandfather did this, he taught me. And then you
get the how much is that worth? I'm gonna steal
it and I'm gonna sell it overseas.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
And as much as I like to bag on people,
I really do. I love people, and I also I
love niche hobbies.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Yes, I thought I appreciate such a soft spot.

Speaker 3 (01:02:21):
For people with niche hobbies and that this is definitely
one of them.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
It's deeply niche. Yes, it's a niche niche. Yes, so
you in the mid for a talk back, maybe wash
this one down, produce a d what you got for us?
Oh my god, I love you.

Speaker 4 (01:02:47):
He it's the car counting child genius.

Speaker 6 (01:02:49):
My brother heard the story and wanted me to tell
y'all his story of getting in trouble because.

Speaker 4 (01:02:54):
He thinks it's better. So we want your opinion. He
was a freshman in high school. I was in second raid,
and he told me that the middle finger meant I
love you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
So I put up.

Speaker 6 (01:03:04):
Everyone in class that day. When I was sitting in
the principal's office, they asked me who told me that,
and when I said my brother, they called over to
the high school and my brother got to serve detention
for a week.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
Your family is amazing, and that is I love stuff
like that where you mess with.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
A kid a good job in the school administrators to
like take.

Speaker 3 (01:03:28):
It to the source, like who told you my brother? Oh, well,
you know you're still in Trump. Now that's good. I
like that, But I think you guys, he's his isn't better?
It's how can you compare? Yeah, it's no, you're better
with the card kid. That's way tiller than teaching a
little kid that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
But oh man, that is so good as always. You
can uh you's like more. You can find us on
uh social media. We've got pictures of all this. If
you want to see what these pigeons look like, you
go see the Mona Lisa of the Pigeon World on Instagram.
Ridiculous Crime is a handle. We're also on Blue Sky

(01:04:06):
and we have our account Ridiculous Crime pod pod on
YouTube if you'd like, you can listen there if you prefer.
We also have our website ridiculous Crime dot com, which
is an award winning website but also just a really
fun times. It's it's a throwback to a simpler time,
as Elizabeth might say, a sweeter, more tender and mild time. Well,

(01:04:28):
obviously we'd love your talk back, so Please go to
the iHeart app download it, leave us a talk back
and maybe you get to hear your voice here. Yeah,
we'd love to hear your voice here. Oh and also
emails if you like your Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot
com and please start the email to your producer d
and assistant Terry.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Now there you go. That's all we got for you
this week. Thank you for listening, and we will catch
you next crime. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton
and Zaren Burnette, produced and edited by Mike Tyson's bird
Guy Dave Cousten. Our ridiculous assistant is the fanciest pigeon

(01:05:06):
fancier who ever fancied a pigeon, Terry maldon Otto. Fall
research is by the co presidents of the Pigeon Racing
Federation RSA Brown and Jabbari Davis. Our theme song is
by our house band, The Mona Lisa of the Pigeon
World aka Thomas Lee and Travis Dunnon. The host wardrobe
provided by Botany five hundred. Producer Dave's wardrobe provided by

(01:05:27):
Mister Guy of Beverly Hills. Guest hair and makeup by
Sparkle Shock and mister Andre. Executive producers are Ben you
could say I'm a pigeon influencer, Bolin and Noel. They
blew up the Pigeon Man in Philly last night, Brown.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
Reds, Why Say It one more time? Gelius Crime Ridiculous
Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts. My
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