December 7, 2025 • 24 mins
A new study shows a clear association between how young a child gets their first smartphone, and depression, anxiety and obesity. A second study this week revealed that when young adults reduce their social media time, within just one week, there were significant reductions in depression and anxiety. Amy and T.J. check their phones for time spent on social media, and then compared it with T.J.’s 12 year old and it was fairly shocking.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hey there, folks.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It is Sunday, December seventh, and this week one country
is doing something that no country on planet Earth has
ever done before. They are banning all kids under the
age of sixteen from social media. And we just got
two new studies that shows they might be onto something.
And with that, welcome to this episode of Aby and
(00:34):
TJ Robes. It's no surprise we get new studies and
new information. But at this point we all understand that
cell phones are bad for kids.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I gues and I think cell phones are probably bad
for all of us because of the way and how
often we use them.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
The way we use them. It's not the phone itself, right.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
No, it's you know, it's ever since we have these
smartphone capabilities where we can engage in whatever content we
want or need to make us feel however we want
to feel, and just literally basically disappear away from the
real world.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
So, yes, one country is now doing something about the
impact social media is having on kids, and they have
banned it all together. It kicks in this week on Wednesday.
I believe I have it right, and the country is, folks, Australia. Yes,
this is something they have been keeping an eye on
for quite some time. They have this thing and I
have it right. Yes, you're hearing us writing. Folks in Australia,
(01:30):
if you are under the age of sixteen, starting this
week you are not supposed to be on social media.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
You are breaking the law.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Yes, it goes into effect on December tenth. And they
mean business. They've been talking about this for months now
and it actually goes into effect on Wednesday of this week.
And Malaysia is following suit in twenty twenty six, they
are going to do the exact same thing. I wouldn't
be surprised if we start to see countries one by
one putting in these types of bans. The problem is
(01:58):
going to be enforcement, as it almost always is with
any even good or decent law. Good luck enforcing it.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Didn't you just say you wouldn't be surprised to see
more countries do this. Will you deny it? Its states
be one of them?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I doubt it.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
No chance in hell, never, no chance, right, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Not, not even it's dead on a rifle.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I mean, what we can't even we can't even balance
our budget. You think that we can get something. I mean,
I'm sorry, there's just no way.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
You say, balance. We can't even get it in on
time the budget.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
We can't even pay our federal employees.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Okay, good, good point there. I don't think it is
ever happened in the United States, but we keep seeing. Look,
every year we get a trickle of new studies and
whatnot about cell phones and the damage to kids and
social media and TikTok and how it's addictive and blah
blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
But there were two and these.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Are not just studies another random group. These were as
legit as they get, at least in this community. Robes
two studies, one of them in particular, is kind of
giving us a number an age for you better not
be giving your kid a cell phone before this age,
because it shows it's having a very serious impact.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yes, and I would imagine right about now a lot
of you parents have kids who are asking for a
new iPhone for Christmas or their first iPhone for Christmas.
And look, I know my kids are older. Mine are
twenty three and nineteen. I gave Eva her first iPhone
at thirteen, and Annalise at twelve because she was riding
the bus by herself, so she got one a year earlier.
(03:25):
But they were literally the last in their classes, even
back then ten years ago who got cell phones. And
they were complaining to me starting at about nine or ten,
and they wanted an iPhone and all the study says,
you did the right thing, yes, but you know what,
it was hard and they were really upset with me,
and who knows what else they sneaked around and did.
But I understand the need for a phone for safety purposes.
(03:48):
As parents, Yes, you want to be able to be
in contact with your child when they're away from you,
and a cell phone is the best and easiest way
to do it. So I totally get it. That's when
I wish we had flip phones. That's when I wish
we could just have the contact and not give them
all the content. That's the tough part.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Well, they get that. Can you imagine trying to give
a kid a flip phone these days?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Oh mommy, I'd rather not have a phone at all.
That's so embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
That's probably what it's going to be.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
But folks, there is a this week is study in
the Journal Pediatrics taking a look at cell phones and
when a kid should get one, and they found that
there was a particular age in which it has just
a really devastating impact. And we're talking about things along
the likes of depression, anxiety, obesity, and they're pointing to it.
(04:36):
I'm not sure how they landed on this, but they
are saying, Robes, if you give a kid the cell
phone before this age, you're probably doing more damage than
you realize.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yes, here is what the published article, the results of
this really interesting study that they did in the General
Pediatrics said, children who had a smartphone by the age
of twelve, we're at higher risk of depression, obesity, and
insufficient sleep than those who did not yet have one.
So the younger that children under twelve were when they
(05:11):
got their first smartphones, the greater their risk of depression, obesity,
and poor sleep.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Package Hey, uf, you all hear that. That's the key
is if it's before twelve, and the younger they are
before twelve, the greater the risk is are for these moments.
This is a pretty clear indication, at least to each
his and her own And I know kids are different
can hand a responsibility differently, but this is something we
got to pay attention to.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Yeah, So they said, the big takeaway from this study
that they did is that age matters. It matters. They said,
a kid at age twelve is This was a direct
quote from one of the researchers. A kid at age
twelve is very, very different than a kid at age sixteen.
It's not like an adult at age forty two versus
forty six. There are significant differences in kids, and this
(05:58):
is a really important time of life when kids' brains
are developing at a very rapid pace. They're taking in
so much and they're learning habits, they're learning attention span,
all of those things. So when they're just flipping and
scrolling and then they're comparing and contrasting and wishing they
had things different than and everyone else looks happier than them.
Like we struggle with this as adults. I cannot imagine
(06:19):
having to navigate social media and all of what it's
telling me I should have or should look like when
you're that age.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
It drives me crazy. It's we've been we've spent some time.
We were traveling with Sabine over the weekend twelve. Look,
she's always bouncing around with us and doing stuff, so
she's never in a point where she's just sitting in
a corner by herself, necessarily, but at night it drives
me crazy to see her. We might have a game on,
our movie on, and she is very comfortable just scrolling, scrolling, scrolling,
(06:48):
scroll for hours, like looking at a ten second clip.
I don't And yes, it's addictive. I understand that it is.
I don't understand that. I ask all the time, what
is the appea of what you're seeing?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
It's entertainment, it's their form, it's their thing, it's what
they're coming up with. But I don't get it, and
it's driving me crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I absolutely understand that, because ironically, you said, we watch
our kids spend hours scrolling, doom scrolling, and they're not
focusing on one thing. They probably focused on ten thousand things.
So it's teaching them this. Just they're not able to focus.
They're not able to stay and watch a full movie.
They my kids don't even listen to full songs. That
(07:30):
drives me crazy. I was like, let the song finish.
They get bored with the song halfway through and just
keep and switch it to the next one. And that
is absolutely I believe a byproduct of these phones and
their attention spans. I was like, you can't even listen
to a three minute song without changing it to the
next one because you're bored already. That is like telling.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
To me, Okay, let's not go too old fogy on
this episode, because we're starting to sound like it. My
question is we talk about the age here with this study,
the kids should or shouldn't get phones, and we talk
about we talked about Australia already, how do you keep
a kid from These kids are smarter than all of
us obviously when it comes to cell phones. That's the
(08:12):
question you brought up in the very beginning. How do
you enforce this thing? And it's more so they're not
going to go after the kids and try to right.
They're not for breaking the law if you will. It's
more so they're going to go after these social media companies,
but they put whatever policies in place to try to
keep a kid off who's under the age of sixteen. Already,
there are reports and kids out there putting it out
(08:32):
how they've beaten the system already.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
They already know how to navigate around. In fact, they
actually were proudly putting their names out there, yes with
talking to news outlets saying I already know how I'm
getting around. My friends already know how we're getting around it,
but at least if they're making it more difficult. Look,
the inevitability of something doesn't make it right. I've always
believed that, and so they're saying this isn't right. We
(08:54):
know this isn't good for our kids. This is incredibly
harmful what we're allowing our children to expeci and think
about it. The obesity rates in this country and around
the world are skyrocketing. Kids aren't moving, they aren't getting outside,
they aren't interacting, they don't have social skills, they aren't
physical people like all of those things. Look, as parents,
we can try to help navigate. You know, I tried
(09:16):
to do this until they got into high school and
then they're like I needed for homework and I had
to go to bed early. But I kept devices out
of the bedrooms, like there was like an eight thirty
nine PM policy when mom went to bed, the phones
went into my room and we're charging in my bedroom.
And that was the only way I could have any
kind of control over the hours in which they were
(09:36):
looking at all of this content.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
And the experts will tell you that is a very
good first step, right, your kids are going to have
a phone. That's one thing you can do. I don't
do that with Sabine. She and for the most part,
I trust it. She likes to sleep and likes to
go to bed, but still from nine to ten, it
shouldn't be the last thing she's doing. Everybody will tell
you that's staring at a screen. No matter what age
you are, it's the last thing you should be doing.
(09:58):
But that is a good sometimes difficult. I guess was
it tricky for you?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
It?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Did they push back?
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Oh? Of course they did. They were very upset with me.
And then of course when they got into high school,
they said they needed their iPad for homework and they
hadn't done their homework. And I had to go to
bed because I had to get up early, and so
I just had to go ahead and trust them. But yes,
they'll tell me. Oh, I stayed up till two am
watching whatever Gray's Anatomy, and I couldn't stop watching it.
But you'll even see Sabine will be in a certain
(10:24):
mood and then she'll be on her phone and something
will happen. We don't know what. Mood will suddenly drastically
change and you see it happen and obviously it's nothing
that's around us. It's something that's happening on that phone.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Oh my goodness, dad phone. Oh, I followed her. I'd
be crazy. Well, folks, that is I think the age
they're saying now is eleven is the average age. The
study says twelve is the age you certainly shouldn't at
least the information shows them you probably shouldn't give a
kid a phone before twelve. But the median age shows
(10:56):
that it's eleven in the country, which means that's the
average a lot.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Of nine year olds and we see them walking around
have those smartphones. I was like, bring the flip flip
phone back.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I'm one hundred percent okay with you.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I would love that.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I prefer one at.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Times, you know what, You're right, I do like my
Google Maps. I get lost a lot. But short of that, yes,
I agree.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Well, folks, we told you there were several major headlines
related to kids and cell phones. Yes, one is that
Australia're going to become the first country to ban social
media for kids under the age of sixteen. We tell
you about this study now that shows that twelve is
really that sweet spot where you shouldn't give a kid
a cell phone. But there was another study this week
that showed and folks, stay here because.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
You are not going to believe how.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Much people's life, moods, everything changes once they put that
phone down, and they didn't even have to put it
down for that long. Stay here, all right, folks, We
(12:07):
continue here on Amy and TJ talking about these cell
phones these kids. This is as old, folky of an
episode as we have ever done.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Back in day, get.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Off my lawn.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
When I was a kid, did you know I didn't
talk to my mom until I got home at night.
I mean, it's wild. Okay, sorry, this is uh No
matter what you do, you're gonna become your parents at
some point. This is just what happens. So yes, Australia
gonna be the first country in the world this week
to ban social media use for kids under the age
of sixteen. We got a new study from Pediatrics, the
(12:39):
journal Pediatrics that shows that yes, the younger a child
is before the age of twelve and getting a cell phone,
the higher their risk is for depression, anxiety, obesity, and
then roles. We got one other study. This is the
one that kind of blew my mind. And how much
we can improve our lives, just like getting off that
phone for a short time.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yes, and not even completely. This was a study published
in Jamma, so a very reputable organization, and they actually
had volunteers between the ages of eighteen and twenty four
who said, we will dramatically reduce our social media intake.
So they didn't stop it completely, but they were basically
(13:21):
their rules were stay off social media media as much
as possible. So on average, this group that they studied
reduced their consumption of social media to just half an
hour or at least under two hours a day, which,
by the way, I'm not even on it that much.
So they reduced their social media intake to under two hours.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
You know what wasn't Did you see what it was before?
Good god, I know two hours.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
I don't know what it was before, but it must
have been significantly longer.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Well, you know what they said. The volunteers were eighteen
to twenty four.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yes, I wonder what the average time on social media
per day for an eighteen to twenty four years.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I should ask. I've got that exact age grew are
my daughters nineteen to twenty three? And I would guess
I mean, if I asked, you can find out it
is probably five hours more.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I want a day a day. There's not that much
time in a day.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Honestly, children communicate with me throughout the day before they
call TikTok videos.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So that tells me, damn, did she just open the door?
I wonder I want to ask. I think you can
check your front. I'm very curious to see. So, I mean,
can you check to see how long you were on
TikTok and social media?
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Like in several days?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
She is cringing her face. She doesn't want to tell you.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Say check for me.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Just pick a couple of days and tell me how
long you were on social media, all of it and
the day.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I'm just curious, Okay, go ahead, She'll report back. Yes.
So they that's that's wild to me. That that was the
study that was them reducing it under two hours a day.
So before they did this, they answered questions about their depression,
their anxiety, insomnia, loneliness, just a number of different issues
(15:02):
that folks face when you know they're dealing with their
mental health. So the symptoms of anxiety after they took
this break dropped by more than sixteen percent. The symptoms
of depression dropped by almost twenty five percent. That is
that's remarkable. I got chills thinking about that. How many
people suffer from depression? If you just reduce your social
media intake, you could have a quarter Like that's huge,
(15:25):
that's amazing. A quarter percent or yeah, twenty five percent.
Symptoms of insomnia drop by almost fifteen percent, and they
say the improvements that we're talking about. These numbers were
most pronounced with people who initially said they had severe depression.
So the more you were depressed going into this study,
the more you were helped by taking a break from
(15:47):
social media.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Soon you're talking about it sounds silly like every doctor,
everybody should that comes in right and says they're feeling
these anxiety or.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Depression, they usually get a prescription for.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
What I'm saying, should are they doing? This is the
doctor's first thing out of his mouth. What are your
social media habits?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Doubtful?
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Probably not doubtful?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Is it in there?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
They'll probably ask you, what's your relationship like with your mom?
Moms always get to blame.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Oh my again, it's not that episode.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Sorry, Okay, Sabine, you're gonna have to come help me.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Make sense of what I'm seeing, because I'm very disturbed
by what I'm seeing. It doesn't make any sense, sweetheart,
So give me a day tell me that.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yeah what, Yeah, that's what I thought. Five hours.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah, no talk.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Alone, So five hours that was my guess. I asked,
let's see this, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
She even softened it. She says, it's like two hours.
It's two hours and fifty five minutes and one day
on TikTok. So the total for the day was this, Yeah,
five hours, says five hours of forty.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Minutes, almost six hours. I'm telling you that is probably
Sabine is not any different than any other thirteen year
old terrible parents, and that is that is Also if
I checked avan anasons they aren't with me right now,
it's probably similar.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Oh my, see you lying TikTok alone.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
But then total it's almost six hours right on social
These are the totals his by the way, everyone, if
you could see TG right now, his jaw is genuinely dropped, like.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
These are days.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
That's a day for one day, that's what you're on
social media. Oh the phone, okay, but still that's terrible. Okay,
she's on.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
That amazing It was like Monday, Dad, Monday, she's on
the phone for eight hours and forty eight minutes.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Sweetheart, It's okay, but that's the total.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yes, okay, TikTok two hours and forty minutes that day.
Why five hours and forty minutes on TikTok on Tuesday
December second?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Okay, will yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, that Apple. You know them.
They can't get anything right on those iPhones. Stop.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Okay, how shocked are you?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
But that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I know how much she does it when you see
the numbers, And I encourage everybody if you have a
kid who has an iPhone, go to that section of
screen time and just spend a minute looking and you'll go,
what the actual fuck that is insane. I don't know
how I can't find three hours in my day to
look at a social media.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I mean, will you look on mind to see what
mine was? This is what I'm just curious, Like, I'm
just curious because I don't even know how to look.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Okay, So to your point, ro it's about this study
that we're talking about, you, sweetheart, This WEE could solve.
It sounds like a bunch of the problems that we
are using pills to solve yes by doing simple little
behavioral changes.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
It's kind of an AHA moment because, look, I've even
had my daughter say to me, I really think I'd
like to talk to a therapist. I'm feeling anxiety, I'm
feeling depression. A lot of our girlfriends are on medications,
and somehow I think she thinks she needs to be too,
because everybody's on something that their therapists prescribed for them.
And then you see a study like this, and I was,
(19:10):
and in my mind, I'm thinking back to when I
was in college, and sure, everybody has a lot of
changing attitudes and there's a lot of shifting and changes
in your life, so you feel maybe anxiety, but not
at this level. And literally social media would be the
number one thing that is different between then and now.
Oh yeah, what's mine? Sabine say, it's not true. It's
(19:33):
just two hours and thirty one minutes on messages. Oh okay, messaging, Yes,
that's the thing I use it the most for.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
I'm not saying like any I don't.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Really go on social media anymore for like an hour,
so I googling things. Instagram today was just one minute,
one minute, But can you see yesterday, yesterday it was
twenty four minutes on twenty four minutes. Yep, that's it.
So I got twenty four minutes on social She's hunting.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
She can't find any social media usage of yours.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
That is because I'm living my life, my life. Look,
we don't want to check it, but of course we do,
but we all and I don't want to take away
from anybody. Social media has some wonderful uses.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Obviously we're talking about kids here, and I just think
it's remarkable the difference that can be made, the differ.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
What am I looking at?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Yes, I play music a lot, see like that's the
phone is like for us Spotify number one Spotify and messages.
I message people. That definitely is my longest That's my
most usage of my phone is messaging children, parents, friends,
that's my number one thing.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Well, she's looking through ours and she has to scroll down.
Social media isn't registered.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Her jaw is dropped. She can't believe, yeah, you're not
on social media the way they are.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
That is incredible. Look, it's it tells you everything. But
this this other study, this last one we're talking about here.
I think this if we pay attention to everybody. You
don't have to go to a doctor, you don't have
to do stop on your own, and you will see
how different you feel. They are saying this as plain
as day. Get off social media and you will feel better.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I want to quote the co author of this study
out of jama This is what this doctor said. If
you are struggling with a mental health condition and you
have treatment already, it is likely worthy experimenting to see
whether reducing social media makes you feel better. And he
said the mental health benefit isn't about changing your overall
(21:40):
scream time. It's not about getting off your phone. You
might use it for other things. It is specifically about
social media. So it's He's like, it's we're not telling
you you can't use your phone, don't constantly be on
social media. He said, this is a solution that will
empower most parents and young people themselves use less social media,
(22:00):
and there was a reasonable chance you will start to
feel a whole lot better.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I think this is wonderful a tool we can all have,
and it's not hard to implement, it's not complicated.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I love this is real.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
This good information that can improve your health, and you
have the power to do it. I love this information. Please,
by all means spread it so I love them.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
You know, I have chools because it is empowering. And
I know that Ava, when she was about a senior,
she was really struggling a little bit and she got
off social media. She actually deleted her accounts and she
said she noticed a huge improvement when I took those
girls hiking one week where there was no cell service.
Ava said, her mental health and she recognized it. I
think you can't force this on your kids, but if
(22:42):
you get them to join in an experiment with you
and they genuinely feel better, they will then make the
decision on their own. That's the only way it's going
to work. If they recognize how differently they feel, they
will choose and make better choices. And I think that
is cool to have that information and just say, hey,
we're going to do a family experiment or we're going
to try this for a week and see how we
(23:04):
all feel. And I feel like it's going to be
something that is undeniable.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
And look to we understand and we respect that there
are people out there who are struggling who have I
guess heavy or deeper, more serious issues that they do
need help. They do need, doctors, they do need maybe
even medicine. Yes, But combined with this, I think for
so many people, and maybe even the.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Majority, this could work.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So we encourage you all. This is very interesting stuff
this week. And wow, we learned a lot about kids
and their cell phones.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
You've learned a lot because apparent, but every single person listening,
if you go do that, I think you will be shocked, Like,
look at your phone and then look at their phone
and compare it.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Well, folks who always appreciate you spending some time with us.
We've got some parenting to go do, apparently, but for now,
I don't make that face at me. For now, I'm
d J. Holmes on behalf of my dear Amy Robach
and my daughter Sermine Holmes. Talk to Oultser
Hey there, folks.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It is Sunday, December seventh, and this week one country
is doing something that no country on planet Earth has
ever done before. They are banning all kids under the
age of sixteen from social media. And we just got
two new studies that shows they might be onto something.
And with that, welcome to this episode of Aby and
(00:34):
TJ Robes. It's no surprise we get new studies and
new information. But at this point we all understand that
cell phones are bad for kids.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I gues and I think cell phones are probably bad
for all of us because of the way and how
often we use them.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
The way we use them. It's not the phone itself, right.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
No, it's you know, it's ever since we have these
smartphone capabilities where we can engage in whatever content we
want or need to make us feel however we want
to feel, and just literally basically disappear away from the
real world.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
So, yes, one country is now doing something about the
impact social media is having on kids, and they have
banned it all together. It kicks in this week on Wednesday.
I believe I have it right, and the country is, folks, Australia. Yes,
this is something they have been keeping an eye on
for quite some time. They have this thing and I
have it right. Yes, you're hearing us writing. Folks in Australia,
(01:30):
if you are under the age of sixteen, starting this
week you are not supposed to be on social media.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
You are breaking the law.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Yes, it goes into effect on December tenth. And they
mean business. They've been talking about this for months now
and it actually goes into effect on Wednesday of this week.
And Malaysia is following suit in twenty twenty six, they
are going to do the exact same thing. I wouldn't
be surprised if we start to see countries one by
one putting in these types of bans. The problem is
(01:58):
going to be enforcement, as it almost always is with
any even good or decent law. Good luck enforcing it.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Didn't you just say you wouldn't be surprised to see
more countries do this. Will you deny it? Its states
be one of them?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I doubt it.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
No chance in hell, never, no chance, right, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Not, not even it's dead on a rifle.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I mean, what we can't even we can't even balance
our budget. You think that we can get something. I mean,
I'm sorry, there's just no way.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
You say, balance. We can't even get it in on
time the budget.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
We can't even pay our federal employees.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Okay, good, good point there. I don't think it is
ever happened in the United States, but we keep seeing. Look,
every year we get a trickle of new studies and
whatnot about cell phones and the damage to kids and
social media and TikTok and how it's addictive and blah
blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
But there were two and these.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Are not just studies another random group. These were as
legit as they get, at least in this community. Robes
two studies, one of them in particular, is kind of
giving us a number an age for you better not
be giving your kid a cell phone before this age,
because it shows it's having a very serious impact.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yes, and I would imagine right about now a lot
of you parents have kids who are asking for a
new iPhone for Christmas or their first iPhone for Christmas.
And look, I know my kids are older. Mine are
twenty three and nineteen. I gave Eva her first iPhone
at thirteen, and Annalise at twelve because she was riding
the bus by herself, so she got one a year earlier.
(03:25):
But they were literally the last in their classes, even
back then ten years ago who got cell phones. And
they were complaining to me starting at about nine or ten,
and they wanted an iPhone and all the study says,
you did the right thing, yes, but you know what,
it was hard and they were really upset with me,
and who knows what else they sneaked around and did.
But I understand the need for a phone for safety purposes.
(03:48):
As parents, Yes, you want to be able to be
in contact with your child when they're away from you,
and a cell phone is the best and easiest way
to do it. So I totally get it. That's when
I wish we had flip phones. That's when I wish
we could just have the contact and not give them
all the content. That's the tough part.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Well, they get that. Can you imagine trying to give
a kid a flip phone these days?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Oh mommy, I'd rather not have a phone at all.
That's so embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
That's probably what it's going to be.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
But folks, there is a this week is study in
the Journal Pediatrics taking a look at cell phones and
when a kid should get one, and they found that
there was a particular age in which it has just
a really devastating impact. And we're talking about things along
the likes of depression, anxiety, obesity, and they're pointing to it.
(04:36):
I'm not sure how they landed on this, but they
are saying, Robes, if you give a kid the cell
phone before this age, you're probably doing more damage than
you realize.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yes, here is what the published article, the results of
this really interesting study that they did in the General
Pediatrics said, children who had a smartphone by the age
of twelve, we're at higher risk of depression, obesity, and
insufficient sleep than those who did not yet have one.
So the younger that children under twelve were when they
(05:11):
got their first smartphones, the greater their risk of depression, obesity,
and poor sleep.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Package Hey, uf, you all hear that. That's the key
is if it's before twelve, and the younger they are
before twelve, the greater the risk is are for these moments.
This is a pretty clear indication, at least to each
his and her own And I know kids are different
can hand a responsibility differently, but this is something we
got to pay attention to.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Yeah, So they said, the big takeaway from this study
that they did is that age matters. It matters. They said,
a kid at age twelve is This was a direct
quote from one of the researchers. A kid at age
twelve is very, very different than a kid at age sixteen.
It's not like an adult at age forty two versus
forty six. There are significant differences in kids, and this
(05:58):
is a really important time of life when kids' brains
are developing at a very rapid pace. They're taking in
so much and they're learning habits, they're learning attention span,
all of those things. So when they're just flipping and
scrolling and then they're comparing and contrasting and wishing they
had things different than and everyone else looks happier than them.
Like we struggle with this as adults. I cannot imagine
(06:19):
having to navigate social media and all of what it's
telling me I should have or should look like when
you're that age.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
It drives me crazy. It's we've been we've spent some time.
We were traveling with Sabine over the weekend twelve. Look,
she's always bouncing around with us and doing stuff, so
she's never in a point where she's just sitting in
a corner by herself, necessarily, but at night it drives
me crazy to see her. We might have a game on,
our movie on, and she is very comfortable just scrolling, scrolling, scrolling,
(06:48):
scroll for hours, like looking at a ten second clip.
I don't And yes, it's addictive. I understand that it is.
I don't understand that. I ask all the time, what
is the appea of what you're seeing?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
It's entertainment, it's their form, it's their thing, it's what
they're coming up with. But I don't get it, and
it's driving me crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I absolutely understand that, because ironically, you said, we watch
our kids spend hours scrolling, doom scrolling, and they're not
focusing on one thing. They probably focused on ten thousand things.
So it's teaching them this. Just they're not able to focus.
They're not able to stay and watch a full movie.
They my kids don't even listen to full songs. That
(07:30):
drives me crazy. I was like, let the song finish.
They get bored with the song halfway through and just
keep and switch it to the next one. And that
is absolutely I believe a byproduct of these phones and
their attention spans. I was like, you can't even listen
to a three minute song without changing it to the
next one because you're bored already. That is like telling.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
To me, Okay, let's not go too old fogy on
this episode, because we're starting to sound like it. My
question is we talk about the age here with this study,
the kids should or shouldn't get phones, and we talk
about we talked about Australia already, how do you keep
a kid from These kids are smarter than all of
us obviously when it comes to cell phones. That's the
(08:12):
question you brought up in the very beginning. How do
you enforce this thing? And it's more so they're not
going to go after the kids and try to right.
They're not for breaking the law if you will. It's
more so they're going to go after these social media companies,
but they put whatever policies in place to try to
keep a kid off who's under the age of sixteen. Already,
there are reports and kids out there putting it out
(08:32):
how they've beaten the system already.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
They already know how to navigate around. In fact, they
actually were proudly putting their names out there, yes with
talking to news outlets saying I already know how I'm
getting around. My friends already know how we're getting around it,
but at least if they're making it more difficult. Look,
the inevitability of something doesn't make it right. I've always
believed that, and so they're saying this isn't right. We
(08:54):
know this isn't good for our kids. This is incredibly
harmful what we're allowing our children to expeci and think
about it. The obesity rates in this country and around
the world are skyrocketing. Kids aren't moving, they aren't getting outside,
they aren't interacting, they don't have social skills, they aren't
physical people like all of those things. Look, as parents,
we can try to help navigate. You know, I tried
(09:16):
to do this until they got into high school and
then they're like I needed for homework and I had
to go to bed early. But I kept devices out
of the bedrooms, like there was like an eight thirty
nine PM policy when mom went to bed, the phones
went into my room and we're charging in my bedroom.
And that was the only way I could have any
kind of control over the hours in which they were
(09:36):
looking at all of this content.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
And the experts will tell you that is a very
good first step, right, your kids are going to have
a phone. That's one thing you can do. I don't
do that with Sabine. She and for the most part,
I trust it. She likes to sleep and likes to
go to bed, but still from nine to ten, it
shouldn't be the last thing she's doing. Everybody will tell
you that's staring at a screen. No matter what age
you are, it's the last thing you should be doing.
(09:58):
But that is a good sometimes difficult. I guess was
it tricky for you?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
It?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Did they push back?
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Oh? Of course they did. They were very upset with me.
And then of course when they got into high school,
they said they needed their iPad for homework and they
hadn't done their homework. And I had to go to
bed because I had to get up early, and so
I just had to go ahead and trust them. But yes,
they'll tell me. Oh, I stayed up till two am
watching whatever Gray's Anatomy, and I couldn't stop watching it.
But you'll even see Sabine will be in a certain
(10:24):
mood and then she'll be on her phone and something
will happen. We don't know what. Mood will suddenly drastically
change and you see it happen and obviously it's nothing
that's around us. It's something that's happening on that phone.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Oh my goodness, dad phone. Oh, I followed her. I'd
be crazy. Well, folks, that is I think the age
they're saying now is eleven is the average age. The
study says twelve is the age you certainly shouldn't at
least the information shows them you probably shouldn't give a
kid a phone before twelve. But the median age shows
(10:56):
that it's eleven in the country, which means that's the
average a lot.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Of nine year olds and we see them walking around
have those smartphones. I was like, bring the flip flip
phone back.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I'm one hundred percent okay with you.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I would love that.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I prefer one at.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Times, you know what, You're right, I do like my
Google Maps. I get lost a lot. But short of that, yes,
I agree.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Well, folks, we told you there were several major headlines
related to kids and cell phones. Yes, one is that
Australia're going to become the first country to ban social
media for kids under the age of sixteen. We tell
you about this study now that shows that twelve is
really that sweet spot where you shouldn't give a kid
a cell phone. But there was another study this week
that showed and folks, stay here because.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
You are not going to believe how.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Much people's life, moods, everything changes once they put that
phone down, and they didn't even have to put it
down for that long. Stay here, all right, folks, We
(12:07):
continue here on Amy and TJ talking about these cell
phones these kids. This is as old, folky of an
episode as we have ever done.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Back in day, get.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Off my lawn.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
When I was a kid, did you know I didn't
talk to my mom until I got home at night.
I mean, it's wild. Okay, sorry, this is uh No
matter what you do, you're gonna become your parents at
some point. This is just what happens. So yes, Australia
gonna be the first country in the world this week
to ban social media use for kids under the age
of sixteen. We got a new study from Pediatrics, the
(12:39):
journal Pediatrics that shows that yes, the younger a child
is before the age of twelve and getting a cell phone,
the higher their risk is for depression, anxiety, obesity, and
then roles. We got one other study. This is the
one that kind of blew my mind. And how much
we can improve our lives, just like getting off that
phone for a short time.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yes, and not even completely. This was a study published
in Jamma, so a very reputable organization, and they actually
had volunteers between the ages of eighteen and twenty four
who said, we will dramatically reduce our social media intake.
So they didn't stop it completely, but they were basically
(13:21):
their rules were stay off social media media as much
as possible. So on average, this group that they studied
reduced their consumption of social media to just half an
hour or at least under two hours a day, which,
by the way, I'm not even on it that much.
So they reduced their social media intake to under two hours.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
You know what wasn't Did you see what it was before?
Good god, I know two hours.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
I don't know what it was before, but it must
have been significantly longer.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Well, you know what they said. The volunteers were eighteen
to twenty four.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yes, I wonder what the average time on social media
per day for an eighteen to twenty four years.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I should ask. I've got that exact age grew are
my daughters nineteen to twenty three? And I would guess
I mean, if I asked, you can find out it
is probably five hours more.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I want a day a day. There's not that much
time in a day.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Honestly, children communicate with me throughout the day before they
call TikTok videos.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So that tells me, damn, did she just open the door?
I wonder I want to ask. I think you can
check your front. I'm very curious to see. So, I mean,
can you check to see how long you were on
TikTok and social media?
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Like in several days?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
She is cringing her face. She doesn't want to tell you.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Say check for me.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Just pick a couple of days and tell me how
long you were on social media, all of it and
the day.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I'm just curious, Okay, go ahead, She'll report back. Yes.
So they that's that's wild to me. That that was the
study that was them reducing it under two hours a day.
So before they did this, they answered questions about their depression,
their anxiety, insomnia, loneliness, just a number of different issues
(15:02):
that folks face when you know they're dealing with their
mental health. So the symptoms of anxiety after they took
this break dropped by more than sixteen percent. The symptoms
of depression dropped by almost twenty five percent. That is
that's remarkable. I got chills thinking about that. How many
people suffer from depression? If you just reduce your social
media intake, you could have a quarter Like that's huge,
(15:25):
that's amazing. A quarter percent or yeah, twenty five percent.
Symptoms of insomnia drop by almost fifteen percent, and they
say the improvements that we're talking about. These numbers were
most pronounced with people who initially said they had severe depression.
So the more you were depressed going into this study,
the more you were helped by taking a break from
(15:47):
social media.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Soon you're talking about it sounds silly like every doctor,
everybody should that comes in right and says they're feeling
these anxiety or.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Depression, they usually get a prescription for.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
What I'm saying, should are they doing? This is the
doctor's first thing out of his mouth. What are your
social media habits?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Doubtful?
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Probably not doubtful?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Is it in there?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
They'll probably ask you, what's your relationship like with your mom?
Moms always get to blame.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Oh my again, it's not that episode.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Sorry, Okay, Sabine, you're gonna have to come help me.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Make sense of what I'm seeing, because I'm very disturbed
by what I'm seeing. It doesn't make any sense, sweetheart,
So give me a day tell me that.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yeah what, Yeah, that's what I thought. Five hours.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah, no talk.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Alone, So five hours that was my guess. I asked,
let's see this, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
She even softened it. She says, it's like two hours.
It's two hours and fifty five minutes and one day
on TikTok. So the total for the day was this, Yeah,
five hours, says five hours of forty.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Minutes, almost six hours. I'm telling you that is probably
Sabine is not any different than any other thirteen year
old terrible parents, and that is that is Also if
I checked avan anasons they aren't with me right now,
it's probably similar.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Oh my, see you lying TikTok alone.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
But then total it's almost six hours right on social
These are the totals his by the way, everyone, if
you could see TG right now, his jaw is genuinely dropped, like.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
These are days.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
That's a day for one day, that's what you're on
social media. Oh the phone, okay, but still that's terrible. Okay,
she's on.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
That amazing It was like Monday, Dad, Monday, she's on
the phone for eight hours and forty eight minutes.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Sweetheart, It's okay, but that's the total.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yes, okay, TikTok two hours and forty minutes that day.
Why five hours and forty minutes on TikTok on Tuesday
December second?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Okay, will yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, that Apple. You know them.
They can't get anything right on those iPhones. Stop.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Okay, how shocked are you?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
But that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I know how much she does it when you see
the numbers, And I encourage everybody if you have a
kid who has an iPhone, go to that section of
screen time and just spend a minute looking and you'll go,
what the actual fuck that is insane. I don't know
how I can't find three hours in my day to
look at a social media.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I mean, will you look on mind to see what
mine was? This is what I'm just curious, Like, I'm
just curious because I don't even know how to look.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Okay, So to your point, ro it's about this study
that we're talking about, you, sweetheart, This WEE could solve.
It sounds like a bunch of the problems that we
are using pills to solve yes by doing simple little
behavioral changes.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
It's kind of an AHA moment because, look, I've even
had my daughter say to me, I really think I'd
like to talk to a therapist. I'm feeling anxiety, I'm
feeling depression. A lot of our girlfriends are on medications,
and somehow I think she thinks she needs to be too,
because everybody's on something that their therapists prescribed for them.
And then you see a study like this, and I was,
(19:10):
and in my mind, I'm thinking back to when I
was in college, and sure, everybody has a lot of
changing attitudes and there's a lot of shifting and changes
in your life, so you feel maybe anxiety, but not
at this level. And literally social media would be the
number one thing that is different between then and now.
Oh yeah, what's mine? Sabine say, it's not true. It's
(19:33):
just two hours and thirty one minutes on messages. Oh okay, messaging, Yes,
that's the thing I use it the most for.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
I'm not saying like any I don't.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Really go on social media anymore for like an hour,
so I googling things. Instagram today was just one minute,
one minute, But can you see yesterday, yesterday it was
twenty four minutes on twenty four minutes. Yep, that's it.
So I got twenty four minutes on social She's hunting.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
She can't find any social media usage of yours.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
That is because I'm living my life, my life. Look,
we don't want to check it, but of course we do,
but we all and I don't want to take away
from anybody. Social media has some wonderful uses.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Obviously we're talking about kids here, and I just think
it's remarkable the difference that can be made, the differ.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
What am I looking at?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Yes, I play music a lot, see like that's the
phone is like for us Spotify number one Spotify and messages.
I message people. That definitely is my longest That's my
most usage of my phone is messaging children, parents, friends,
that's my number one thing.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Well, she's looking through ours and she has to scroll down.
Social media isn't registered.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Her jaw is dropped. She can't believe, yeah, you're not
on social media the way they are.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
That is incredible. Look, it's it tells you everything. But
this this other study, this last one we're talking about here.
I think this if we pay attention to everybody. You
don't have to go to a doctor, you don't have
to do stop on your own, and you will see
how different you feel. They are saying this as plain
as day. Get off social media and you will feel better.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I want to quote the co author of this study
out of jama This is what this doctor said. If
you are struggling with a mental health condition and you
have treatment already, it is likely worthy experimenting to see
whether reducing social media makes you feel better. And he
said the mental health benefit isn't about changing your overall
(21:40):
scream time. It's not about getting off your phone. You
might use it for other things. It is specifically about
social media. So it's He's like, it's we're not telling
you you can't use your phone, don't constantly be on
social media. He said, this is a solution that will
empower most parents and young people themselves use less social media,
(22:00):
and there was a reasonable chance you will start to
feel a whole lot better.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I think this is wonderful a tool we can all have,
and it's not hard to implement, it's not complicated.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I love this is real.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
This good information that can improve your health, and you
have the power to do it. I love this information. Please,
by all means spread it so I love them.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
You know, I have chools because it is empowering. And
I know that Ava, when she was about a senior,
she was really struggling a little bit and she got
off social media. She actually deleted her accounts and she
said she noticed a huge improvement when I took those
girls hiking one week where there was no cell service.
Ava said, her mental health and she recognized it. I
think you can't force this on your kids, but if
(22:42):
you get them to join in an experiment with you
and they genuinely feel better, they will then make the
decision on their own. That's the only way it's going
to work. If they recognize how differently they feel, they
will choose and make better choices. And I think that
is cool to have that information and just say, hey,
we're going to do a family experiment or we're going
to try this for a week and see how we
(23:04):
all feel. And I feel like it's going to be
something that is undeniable.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
And look to we understand and we respect that there
are people out there who are struggling who have I
guess heavy or deeper, more serious issues that they do
need help. They do need, doctors, they do need maybe
even medicine. Yes, But combined with this, I think for
so many people, and maybe even the.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Majority, this could work.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So we encourage you all. This is very interesting stuff
this week. And wow, we learned a lot about kids
and their cell phones.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
You've learned a lot because apparent, but every single person listening,
if you go do that, I think you will be shocked, Like,
look at your phone and then look at their phone
and compare it.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Well, folks who always appreciate you spending some time with us.
We've got some parenting to go do, apparently, but for now,
I don't make that face at me. For now, I'm
d J. Holmes on behalf of my dear Amy Robach
and my daughter Sermine Holmes. Talk to Oultser
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My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
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