March 3, 2026 • 22 mins
A history making verdict out of Georgia today: it’s the first time the state has held a parent criminally responsible for the actions of his child. A jury took less than 2 hours to decide the fate of 55-year-old Colin Gray, convicted of 4 counts of 2nd degree murder and manslaughter along with dozens of other charges. Gray has been held responsible for the shooting deaths of 2 high school students and 2 teachers after police say his 14-year-old son, Colt, opened fire on his classmates and teachers. Prosecutors say Gray gave Colt, who he knew was emotionally troubled, an assault rifle for hunting, on the Christmas before the mass shooting.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, folks, it is Tuesday, March third, and guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty,
twenty seven times over. A jury in Georgia has found
a dad criminally responsible for his son shooting up a
school with that Welcome to this episode of Amy and
(00:23):
TJ Roapes. This is the case people were watching, not
just because of this, but the implications down the road.
And this jury did not take long to figure this out.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I have to say I was frankly surprised, not just
at all the guilty verdicts, because this is the first
time we have seen a father charged with second degree murder.
There is a previous case that we can talk about
from a year ago where they were found guilty of manslaughter,
but second degree murder four charges or four counts of
(00:54):
that in addition to manslaughter and so many other charges
as you mentioned in twenty seven to be.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Specific.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
And yeah, less than two hours, less than two hours,
after two weeks of testimony, there was a lot to digest.
Colin Gray even took the stand in his own defense,
his daughter took the stand, his I guess estranged wife
took the stand.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
That's a lot to.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Process and to go through and they were quick and decisive.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, it might be a reason they were quick and
decisive that we'll get into here in a second as well.
But Colin Gray, of folks who remember this was the shooting,
this is the dad we're talking about. The Sun is
cult fourteen years old, accused of and he is still
in jail. That's something else was wild. The dad has
been held responsible for the shooting that the Sun hasn't
even been found guilty of yet. But this is where
we are. But yes, the shooting was in two thousand
(01:45):
and four at a high school just north of Atlanta,
in September of twenty twenty four, Appalachi High School there.
And here's the thing, bro Again, we've seen so many
school shootings. We have seen some parents at least held accountable,
but unfortunately, Robes. This is important to keep an eye
(02:07):
on because we're probably gonna have more school shootings and
this is Is it possible this could help cut down
on or prevent even one because parents now are going
who whah, whoa, Let me pay attention to my own
child and lock this gun up.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yes, I think that may be the hope. I've read
a statistic based on this case and looking back at
school shootings. They said three out of every four school shootings,
the gun that was used was found in the family home.
So yes, this is a serious issue. And look, this
is in an area of the country. This is winder Georgia.
(02:47):
This is right by Athens, Georgia. My brother lives in Winder.
I am very familiar with this community. You've even seen
the area. It's bucolic, You've got a lot of hunters,
a lot of farmers. But guns are a big way
of life in this part of the world. And this
is about a lot where fathers will give their sons guns,
they'll go hunting together. And that was the story that
(03:09):
Colin Gray's attorney was trying to paint for this jury,
that this is a father who was trying to connect
with his troubled son. He found something that his son
actually liked and was good at, and this was a
way for them to bond. In no way did he
think that this was going to lead to the tragedy
it led to.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
But that was the defense's.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Version of why and how Colt Gray had access to
this gun that was not locked up, that was not
and that isn't against Georgia law.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
By the way, and people have pointed that out.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
That's not the if. That wasn't the point that you said.
The shortest and simplest and most common sense thing ever
had a troubled son let me bond with him by
putting a gun in his hand. That sounds insane, it
does when you put it that simply, but they did.
They went over story after story after story, and this
(04:05):
kid's background brought people in who had whatever kind of
experience with him. They showed his there was nothing robes about.
Anyone who spent time with him was aware well the
problems he had. This was not something he was hiding.
This kid was even violent with his own with his
own family, So the jury was not buying it. And
(04:25):
then he gave him a gun for what Christmas? And
then he wasn't supposed to use it to it he
was late? What was that?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So they were trying to split hairs, in my opinion,
and the jury didn't buy it because the prosecution was saying,
what does this dad do when he knows his son
is in trouble and has gone back and forth between
mom's home, who, by the way, is a drug addict,
and she testified and that wasn't known fact, she was incredible.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
She was suffering from a.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Meth addiction actually during this period of time. So we
ended up going back and forth between his mom's home
and his dad's home.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So what does his dad do on Christmas morning? Last present?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Wraps up a gun and then, according to the defense,
he says, now, this isn't actually yours until you've earned
the right to.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Actually have it and you come of age.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
But come on, you give your fourteen year old son
a gun at Christmas and say this isn't a gift
that's yours.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
That was a tough pill to swallow.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
So, yes, the jury didn't buy it. But maybe the
courtroom today, I guess we were a little surprised that
the verdict. We got word that the verdict was coming
because the jury just got instructions yesterday. They just got
closing arguments yesterday, and we're supposed to come in and
start fresh, and they started this morning and they were
done in two hours. On what is or it feels
(05:40):
like a complicated case, But they heard a lot of
evidence and twenty seven counts that seemed like a lot
of robes. They were not buying it at all. The
color from the courtroom today I didn't see him bat nye.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
He did not react at all, you know, I noticed,
So it doesn't. It always works a little bit differently
in different courtrooms. But the judge had kind of set
the saying, when the jury comes in, they're going to
hand the verdict over to me.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I'm going to read it.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I'm going to call up counsel, the prosecution and the
defense and let them read it, and then it's going
to be announced. I saw after the prosecution or the
prosecutor looked at the sheet, she looked back at her
team and gave a nod, and I knew in that
moment that he was going to be found guilty.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
How often do we see that? I am not used
to that taking place. That Okay, the jury, Yeah, sure,
the judge will see the verdict first, but to call
them I'm trying to think of a single time I've
seen that. What was that about.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I've never seen that before, And it was weird because
now it was as if I mean, I'm sure, if
I'm Colin Gray, I'm staring, yes.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Figured it out.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I'm staring at the prosecution and the defense deceive if
there's any reaction when they read it, and she clearly
gave a reaction of we got this.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
You didn't give the I didn't hear him give the
attorney's instructions to also not react. But how can you
not as a human being. You're looking at two people
who are in different sizes. You look at a sheet
of paper. One of you got good news, one of
you got bad news. I promise you I can tell yes.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
And so that is so I was saying, maybe that's
why when they actually did the reading, he didn't react
because he already knew what was happening. But yeah, he
was stonefaced, he was stoic. He but after all the
emotion of what he went through to watch your own
thirteen year old daughter testify against you and say even
she saw this coming, he has been through the ringer.
(07:26):
I mean to me, as a parent, knowing that your
child committed the horrific act that he did, knowing that
he's going to prison for the rest of his life,
knowing that your daughter just testified against you and your
marriage is I mean, he has been through And I'm
not comparing at all the suffering that these poor you know,
families have gone through, who lost children, lost loved ones,
(07:48):
two teachers, two students and so many others injured. But
I would just imagine he's probably at this point vacant
of emotion.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
You'd almost have to be to survive.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
And the thing about it robes and again, we always
stare at the defendant to see if they're going to react.
I never saw anything, and there was a lot of
opportunity to see something because of how they had to
read the jury verdicts. There were so many, so it
(08:22):
was very repetitive. Count fifteen cruelty to children guilty, Count
sixteen cruelty to a child guilty. So they really did
go through twenty seven lines like that, and it took
a while, and so we had a long time to
stare at him on a camera and an opportunity for
him to react at some point. But after you hear
(08:42):
the first guilty, I guess you know what's coming. But
it was a long list of stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, and I think maybe he even had an I
kind of I kind of even glazed over because you
obviously knew what was coming. You weren't expecting there to
be a not guilty sandwiched in there. I mean, maybe
he thought but if the biggest charges which were read
first second degree murder and then manslaughter.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
If he was guilty on those counts.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
It just seems almost certain that he would be guilty
on all the other counts. And so yeah, there was
a long, long period of time where he just had
to sit there and listen, as you said, off the top.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
One other thing that's on my mind remembering this, right,
was he seated?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, yeah, they're usually standing. Everything was different in this
in this courtroom for whatever reason.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Georgia different down there, and Georgia they do.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
And a lot of eyes were on Georgia do because
of what this case implies for other cases that are
waiting in the wings and certainly going forward. You know,
the silver lining would be if parents who are gun owners,
who see their children struggling mentally, emotionally, actually look at
this case and I know, no one thinks their child
(09:57):
is capable of this. We even heard when the defense
was giving the closing arguments. How could Colin have known
what was going to happen? Even his own mother didn't
think that he was capable of this, Although his own
mother did call the school and give the school a
heads up that she was concerned about her son. That day,
and sadly they're just they didn't react in time to
stop him. He was already in the bathroom, I believe
when he called, assembling the gun and getting ready to
(10:19):
come out, and they just didn't get him in time.
But look, I thought this was a very compelling point
that the prosecution made in their closing arguments. They said
they compared Colin to a parent who gives their child alcohol,
a beer or whatever, alcohol and keys to the car.
You have to accept responsibility at that point. She compared
what he did to that by giving his troubled son
(10:42):
a gun.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
I'm trying to think because I remember what you're talking about,
and I thought it was a good analogy as well,
you're not. I think it was the car versus the alcohol.
She was maybe you're not in trouble for giving your
child a car. You're not in trouble for your child
driving and maybe hitting and killing somebody. You're not in
(11:06):
trouble because you gave him the car. But now you
give him a six pack. That was the thing, so
they said, And I thought it was that's funny that
that thing stood out to both of us. The point
she was making that no, it's not necessarily that you
gave him a gun. It's who you gave the gun too.
Knowing what was or possibly going to happen. You made
(11:27):
this now a dangerous situation. She was effective in that one.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I think every parent that is where it hits. And
I don't know what the makeup of the jury was,
how many of them were parents. I was thinking about
this like, are you as a jury member looking at
it as a parent, thinking oh no, if I find
this man guilty, this parent guilty. Am I now saying
all parents are responsible for all bad acts of their
children if they're miners and under their care. But that
(11:51):
isn't what this case was about. And I think the
prosecution did a good job about making it very specific
and saying basically, hey, you out there, who a parent
would you give your children?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Load them up with alcohol, and then give them the
keys and say good luck.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So I think everyone could look at it from that
very specific scenario and think absolutely not and comparing it
to that I think was very effective.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
And you know, and that might be the thing Robes.
This could make a difference. This could be a big deal,
and this was a big story, and if it causes
more parents out there to Yes, keep a close eye
on your kid and what they're up to, and take
it seriously when you see something suspicious, and even not
(12:33):
that just be shouldn't we all be damn sure if
we got kids in the house, they do not have
an opportunity at all to access a gun if we
don't want them to.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I think as a parent and someone who yes, who
has gone through some of those difficult teen years, we
are responsible for what our kids do and what we
give them, and how we treat them and recognizing signs.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
That's part of our job as parents. For sure. I
do hope that this does send a message.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
It could, This could actually make a difference. Again, this
is happening now, but it's not the first. We have
had other cases and another you are going to remember
that set precedent for this type of thing. Yes, this
is the first parent held responsible, and there are other
cases out there pending. We'll get into those and what
happens next in the case in Georgia, to the dad
(13:28):
and to the son, stay here.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Welcome back to this episode of Amy and TJ.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
We are talking about the guilty verdicts that just came
down in the case out of winder Georgia. Colin Gray,
fifty five year old parent to Colt Gray, held criminally
responsible significantly so convicted four counts of second degree murder,
four counts of manslaw, and dozens of other counts of
(14:02):
cruelty to children, etc. Found guilty on all counts because
his fourteen year old son at the time, the fourteen
year old son shot and killed four people, two students,
two teachers at that high school in winder Georgia, and
injured dozens of others. And yes, he has now been
held criminally responsible and right now, just on the second
(14:23):
degree murder charges, he is facing thirty years behind bars.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Some folks have done the math.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
And said he's actually looking at if you look at
all the guilty counts that he was found guilty of
he was convicted of, he could be facing up to
one hundred and eighty years behind bars. His sentencing has
been deferred. We don't have a sentencing date yet. Who
knows what the judge is going to do, if they're
going to actually throw the book at him and give
him the maximum, which would basically be life in prison.
(14:51):
But this is serious. This isn't a slap on the wrist.
This isn't you should have known better. This is Colin
Gray never getting out of prison.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Get They are saying, those kids would be alive, those
teachers would be alive had it not been for your actions.
I mean, Robes, that's that's uh No, he didn't pull
the trigger, but man, he sure teat that kid up.
Is what they're saying with his message. And it is
still remarkable to me that he could be convicted before
(15:22):
the son.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, I mean he already the son by the way, Colt,
I guess he would be fifteen now or so, but
he's still young, obviously being charged as an adult in
this case. But he doesn't even have a trial date.
He has a hearing, I believe next month, but that's.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
It, just a pre trial hearing. We don't have even
a trial date, said Yees.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
So it's interesting prosecutors in Georgia chose to go after
the father first before the son. I don't know the
reasoning behind that, or the thinking behind that.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I don't know the legalities behind that. It seems odd
that he's been held responsible for a crime and the
son hasn't been held responsible for that crime. How could
the I don't know what's going to happen in the
trial line of weird things happened, he would I, I
don't get that. I need to ask lawyer about that.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah, I mean because the only other case, and you
reference this when we went to break there is one
case out of Michigan where this was Oxford High School
the shooting. The school shooting happened in twenty twenty one.
It actually is eerily similar to this case. Four people
died and the shooter was a fifteen year old student
named Ethan Plumley. Both of his parents were held accountable.
(16:34):
They were only charged and convicted with four counts of manslaughter,
but they were and are at least the first parents
ever convicted in a mass shooting and again bottom a
gun ignored the warning signs.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Very very similar case.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
But their son Ethan pleaded guilty, so he was already
and is already in prison for the rest of his life.
And that happened before they brought his par parents to court,
so they did it in reverse, or at least he
decided for whatever reason.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
To plead guilty and not go through a lengthy trial.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
But that was that was a big moment. That was
a big deal for those parents. They were the first,
I guess in this and you know what, A lot
of times, a lot of I think a lot of
parents you can't help. But some people actually say it
on social media. But sometimes it's in the back of
your mind when you see these school shootings, you see, well,
how did the parents not know? Or you start to blame,
(17:30):
like how do they not know? Or how could they
not keep an eye on their kid? Or oh, I
feel bad, what kind of kid did you raise? People
do that kind of stuff ropes, and generally they haven't
gone after parents. But these are a different kind of
egregious cases, but cases, but they haven't generally done.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
So yes, and I've even heard people say that person
should be held accountable. Look in some of these school shootings,
I hate to be Ma Cob here, but we have
seen the shooter go and kill the person who gave
them the gun, the mother, the father, and then go
and shoot this.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
So we've seen folks.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Not held accountable criminally or legally, but certainly they pay
the ultimate price with their life. That that was the
case in Uvaldi, I remember that very clearly. But this
is going to set precedent. Interestingly enough, the plumb leis
James and Jennifer Plumley, the first couple convicted for their
son's actions. They, I say, only, but they only got
ten to fifteen years for their charges, So they'll be
(18:25):
out of prison, you know, I don't know with credit
for time served all of that probably in less than
a decade. This guy, Colin Gray is almost certainly never
getting out of prison.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
But they both I mean, that sends a message right
to a parent, even saying ten years in prison if
I'm not careful about guns in my home and keeping
an eye on my kid robes, that is a significant
I said, I know what you mean. Ten to fifteen
compared to life is not my friends, but my goodness,
(18:58):
that's going to send a message. I don't know about
these other There is another case pending. I didn't even
realize there was a Dad Abundant Life Christian school. Two
were killed in that a teenage girl, I believe, and
then she ended up taking her own life. I believe
that was in Madison. But there's a Dad awaiting trial
on that one. I think a lot of people remember
the one the fourth of July parade or where he
(19:21):
kind of was plucking people off at this parade that
was in Chicago in twenty twenty two that dad did
plead guilty to reckless conduct. I don't know if he
got jail time or how much jail time there. And
then Newport News the six year old had a gun
and shot a teacher at school. Now this one wrote,
somebody needs to be held responsible for that one. Yes,
well as a six year old got a gun.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yes, there's only one way a six year old got
a gun. And again this is one of the many cases. Again,
seventy five percent of these school shootings happened and a
gun is used from the home. And in that case
the mom pleaded guilty to gun charges and got four
years in prison. So it looks like from everything we've seen,
and this is all fairly recent in terms of charging parents,
(20:04):
this case, today's guilty verdict and the sentencing that is
going to follow is certainly the most severe punishment we
have seen to date, and it will be interesting to
see what it does to just I don't know how
parents assume responsibility. I still would think the problem with
(20:25):
this being a deterrent is that no, I think most
parents don't think their kids have this in them. They
don't think their kids are capable of this kind of
heinous violence. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
And also most parents know their kids do not behave
the way these kids have been described as behaving, this
one in particular, cold great, some of the stuff that
came out of this trial. No, that's a little beyond
whoh not my baby.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, And they were just like I believe, he had
a psychiatric evaluation schedule for March fifth, the following day,
the day after the school shooting, So they had been
dragging their feet, and I understand in trying to get
him outside help for his very obvious and documentable aggressions.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
And emotional problems.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I mean, he didn't even go to school his eighth
grade year, that's how bad it was. So certainly there
were warning signs, there were red flags. Let's just hope
that at some point, I know we asked the school,
We ask students to pay attention to those red flags.
If you see something, say something, and we have seen
that prevent mass tragedies. But yeah, parents, parents need to
(21:35):
do better, and this case maybe will make that very
very evident to parents out there who have guns in
their homes. And with that, we just wanted to jump
on and let you know what that verdict was. And
potentially what that may mean in cases going forward, but
we will always keep you up to date on what's
(21:55):
happening around the world.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Thank you so much for listening to us. Everybody, I
made Robot alongside t J. Holmes. We'll talk to you soon.
Hey, folks, it is Tuesday, March third, and guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty,
twenty seven times over. A jury in Georgia has found
a dad criminally responsible for his son shooting up a
school with that Welcome to this episode of Amy and
(00:23):
TJ Roapes. This is the case people were watching, not
just because of this, but the implications down the road.
And this jury did not take long to figure this out.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I have to say I was frankly surprised, not just
at all the guilty verdicts, because this is the first
time we have seen a father charged with second degree murder.
There is a previous case that we can talk about
from a year ago where they were found guilty of manslaughter,
but second degree murder four charges or four counts of
(00:54):
that in addition to manslaughter and so many other charges
as you mentioned in twenty seven to be.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Specific.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
And yeah, less than two hours, less than two hours,
after two weeks of testimony, there was a lot to digest.
Colin Gray even took the stand in his own defense,
his daughter took the stand, his I guess estranged wife
took the stand.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
That's a lot to.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Process and to go through and they were quick and decisive.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, it might be a reason they were quick and
decisive that we'll get into here in a second as well.
But Colin Gray, of folks who remember this was the shooting,
this is the dad we're talking about. The Sun is
cult fourteen years old, accused of and he is still
in jail. That's something else was wild. The dad has
been held responsible for the shooting that the Sun hasn't
even been found guilty of yet. But this is where
we are. But yes, the shooting was in two thousand
(01:45):
and four at a high school just north of Atlanta,
in September of twenty twenty four, Appalachi High School there.
And here's the thing, bro Again, we've seen so many
school shootings. We have seen some parents at least held accountable,
but unfortunately, Robes. This is important to keep an eye
(02:07):
on because we're probably gonna have more school shootings and
this is Is it possible this could help cut down
on or prevent even one because parents now are going
who whah, whoa, Let me pay attention to my own
child and lock this gun up.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yes, I think that may be the hope. I've read
a statistic based on this case and looking back at
school shootings. They said three out of every four school shootings,
the gun that was used was found in the family home.
So yes, this is a serious issue. And look, this
is in an area of the country. This is winder Georgia.
(02:47):
This is right by Athens, Georgia. My brother lives in Winder.
I am very familiar with this community. You've even seen
the area. It's bucolic, You've got a lot of hunters,
a lot of farmers. But guns are a big way
of life in this part of the world. And this
is about a lot where fathers will give their sons guns,
they'll go hunting together. And that was the story that
(03:09):
Colin Gray's attorney was trying to paint for this jury,
that this is a father who was trying to connect
with his troubled son. He found something that his son
actually liked and was good at, and this was a
way for them to bond. In no way did he
think that this was going to lead to the tragedy
it led to.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
But that was the defense's.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Version of why and how Colt Gray had access to
this gun that was not locked up, that was not
and that isn't against Georgia law.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
By the way, and people have pointed that out.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
That's not the if. That wasn't the point that you said.
The shortest and simplest and most common sense thing ever
had a troubled son let me bond with him by
putting a gun in his hand. That sounds insane, it
does when you put it that simply, but they did.
They went over story after story after story, and this
(04:05):
kid's background brought people in who had whatever kind of
experience with him. They showed his there was nothing robes about.
Anyone who spent time with him was aware well the
problems he had. This was not something he was hiding.
This kid was even violent with his own with his
own family, So the jury was not buying it. And
(04:25):
then he gave him a gun for what Christmas? And
then he wasn't supposed to use it to it he
was late? What was that?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So they were trying to split hairs, in my opinion,
and the jury didn't buy it because the prosecution was saying,
what does this dad do when he knows his son
is in trouble and has gone back and forth between
mom's home, who, by the way, is a drug addict,
and she testified and that wasn't known fact, she was incredible.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
She was suffering from a.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Meth addiction actually during this period of time. So we
ended up going back and forth between his mom's home
and his dad's home.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So what does his dad do on Christmas morning? Last present?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Wraps up a gun and then, according to the defense,
he says, now, this isn't actually yours until you've earned
the right to.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Actually have it and you come of age.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
But come on, you give your fourteen year old son
a gun at Christmas and say this isn't a gift
that's yours.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
That was a tough pill to swallow.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
So, yes, the jury didn't buy it. But maybe the
courtroom today, I guess we were a little surprised that
the verdict. We got word that the verdict was coming
because the jury just got instructions yesterday. They just got
closing arguments yesterday, and we're supposed to come in and
start fresh, and they started this morning and they were
done in two hours. On what is or it feels
(05:40):
like a complicated case, But they heard a lot of
evidence and twenty seven counts that seemed like a lot
of robes. They were not buying it at all. The
color from the courtroom today I didn't see him bat nye.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
He did not react at all, you know, I noticed,
So it doesn't. It always works a little bit differently
in different courtrooms. But the judge had kind of set
the saying, when the jury comes in, they're going to
hand the verdict over to me.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I'm going to read it.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I'm going to call up counsel, the prosecution and the
defense and let them read it, and then it's going
to be announced. I saw after the prosecution or the
prosecutor looked at the sheet, she looked back at her
team and gave a nod, and I knew in that
moment that he was going to be found guilty.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
How often do we see that? I am not used
to that taking place. That Okay, the jury, Yeah, sure,
the judge will see the verdict first, but to call
them I'm trying to think of a single time I've
seen that. What was that about.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I've never seen that before, And it was weird because
now it was as if I mean, I'm sure, if
I'm Colin Gray, I'm staring, yes.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Figured it out.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I'm staring at the prosecution and the defense deceive if
there's any reaction when they read it, and she clearly
gave a reaction of we got this.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
You didn't give the I didn't hear him give the
attorney's instructions to also not react. But how can you
not as a human being. You're looking at two people
who are in different sizes. You look at a sheet
of paper. One of you got good news, one of
you got bad news. I promise you I can tell yes.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
And so that is so I was saying, maybe that's
why when they actually did the reading, he didn't react
because he already knew what was happening. But yeah, he
was stonefaced, he was stoic. He but after all the
emotion of what he went through to watch your own
thirteen year old daughter testify against you and say even
she saw this coming, he has been through the ringer.
(07:26):
I mean to me, as a parent, knowing that your
child committed the horrific act that he did, knowing that
he's going to prison for the rest of his life,
knowing that your daughter just testified against you and your
marriage is I mean, he has been through And I'm
not comparing at all the suffering that these poor you know,
families have gone through, who lost children, lost loved ones,
(07:48):
two teachers, two students and so many others injured. But
I would just imagine he's probably at this point vacant
of emotion.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
You'd almost have to be to survive.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
And the thing about it robes and again, we always
stare at the defendant to see if they're going to react.
I never saw anything, and there was a lot of
opportunity to see something because of how they had to
read the jury verdicts. There were so many, so it
(08:22):
was very repetitive. Count fifteen cruelty to children guilty, Count
sixteen cruelty to a child guilty. So they really did
go through twenty seven lines like that, and it took
a while, and so we had a long time to
stare at him on a camera and an opportunity for
him to react at some point. But after you hear
(08:42):
the first guilty, I guess you know what's coming. But
it was a long list of stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, and I think maybe he even had an I
kind of I kind of even glazed over because you
obviously knew what was coming. You weren't expecting there to
be a not guilty sandwiched in there. I mean, maybe
he thought but if the biggest charges which were read
first second degree murder and then manslaughter.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
If he was guilty on those counts.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
It just seems almost certain that he would be guilty
on all the other counts. And so yeah, there was
a long, long period of time where he just had
to sit there and listen, as you said, off the top.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
One other thing that's on my mind remembering this, right,
was he seated?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, yeah, they're usually standing. Everything was different in this
in this courtroom for whatever reason.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Georgia different down there, and Georgia they do.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
And a lot of eyes were on Georgia do because
of what this case implies for other cases that are
waiting in the wings and certainly going forward. You know,
the silver lining would be if parents who are gun owners,
who see their children struggling mentally, emotionally, actually look at
this case and I know, no one thinks their child
(09:57):
is capable of this. We even heard when the defense
was giving the closing arguments. How could Colin have known
what was going to happen? Even his own mother didn't
think that he was capable of this, Although his own
mother did call the school and give the school a
heads up that she was concerned about her son. That day,
and sadly they're just they didn't react in time to
stop him. He was already in the bathroom, I believe
when he called, assembling the gun and getting ready to
(10:19):
come out, and they just didn't get him in time.
But look, I thought this was a very compelling point
that the prosecution made in their closing arguments. They said
they compared Colin to a parent who gives their child alcohol,
a beer or whatever, alcohol and keys to the car.
You have to accept responsibility at that point. She compared
what he did to that by giving his troubled son
(10:42):
a gun.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
I'm trying to think because I remember what you're talking about,
and I thought it was a good analogy as well,
you're not. I think it was the car versus the alcohol.
She was maybe you're not in trouble for giving your
child a car. You're not in trouble for your child
driving and maybe hitting and killing somebody. You're not in
(11:06):
trouble because you gave him the car. But now you
give him a six pack. That was the thing, so
they said, And I thought it was that's funny that
that thing stood out to both of us. The point
she was making that no, it's not necessarily that you
gave him a gun. It's who you gave the gun too.
Knowing what was or possibly going to happen. You made
(11:27):
this now a dangerous situation. She was effective in that one.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I think every parent that is where it hits. And
I don't know what the makeup of the jury was,
how many of them were parents. I was thinking about
this like, are you as a jury member looking at
it as a parent, thinking oh no, if I find
this man guilty, this parent guilty. Am I now saying
all parents are responsible for all bad acts of their
children if they're miners and under their care. But that
(11:51):
isn't what this case was about. And I think the
prosecution did a good job about making it very specific
and saying basically, hey, you out there, who a parent
would you give your children?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Load them up with alcohol, and then give them the
keys and say good luck.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So I think everyone could look at it from that
very specific scenario and think absolutely not and comparing it
to that I think was very effective.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
And you know, and that might be the thing Robes.
This could make a difference. This could be a big deal,
and this was a big story, and if it causes
more parents out there to Yes, keep a close eye
on your kid and what they're up to, and take
it seriously when you see something suspicious, and even not
(12:33):
that just be shouldn't we all be damn sure if
we got kids in the house, they do not have
an opportunity at all to access a gun if we
don't want them to.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I think as a parent and someone who yes, who
has gone through some of those difficult teen years, we
are responsible for what our kids do and what we
give them, and how we treat them and recognizing signs.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
That's part of our job as parents. For sure. I
do hope that this does send a message.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
It could, This could actually make a difference. Again, this
is happening now, but it's not the first. We have
had other cases and another you are going to remember
that set precedent for this type of thing. Yes, this
is the first parent held responsible, and there are other
cases out there pending. We'll get into those and what
happens next in the case in Georgia, to the dad
(13:28):
and to the son, stay here.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Welcome back to this episode of Amy and TJ.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
We are talking about the guilty verdicts that just came
down in the case out of winder Georgia. Colin Gray,
fifty five year old parent to Colt Gray, held criminally
responsible significantly so convicted four counts of second degree murder,
four counts of manslaw, and dozens of other counts of
(14:02):
cruelty to children, etc. Found guilty on all counts because
his fourteen year old son at the time, the fourteen
year old son shot and killed four people, two students,
two teachers at that high school in winder Georgia, and
injured dozens of others. And yes, he has now been
held criminally responsible and right now, just on the second
(14:23):
degree murder charges, he is facing thirty years behind bars.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Some folks have done the math.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
And said he's actually looking at if you look at
all the guilty counts that he was found guilty of
he was convicted of, he could be facing up to
one hundred and eighty years behind bars. His sentencing has
been deferred. We don't have a sentencing date yet. Who
knows what the judge is going to do, if they're
going to actually throw the book at him and give
him the maximum, which would basically be life in prison.
(14:51):
But this is serious. This isn't a slap on the wrist.
This isn't you should have known better. This is Colin
Gray never getting out of prison.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Get They are saying, those kids would be alive, those
teachers would be alive had it not been for your actions.
I mean, Robes, that's that's uh No, he didn't pull
the trigger, but man, he sure teat that kid up.
Is what they're saying with his message. And it is
still remarkable to me that he could be convicted before
(15:22):
the son.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, I mean he already the son by the way, Colt,
I guess he would be fifteen now or so, but
he's still young, obviously being charged as an adult in
this case. But he doesn't even have a trial date.
He has a hearing, I believe next month, but that's.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
It, just a pre trial hearing. We don't have even
a trial date, said Yees.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
So it's interesting prosecutors in Georgia chose to go after
the father first before the son. I don't know the
reasoning behind that, or the thinking behind that.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I don't know the legalities behind that. It seems odd
that he's been held responsible for a crime and the
son hasn't been held responsible for that crime. How could
the I don't know what's going to happen in the
trial line of weird things happened, he would I, I
don't get that. I need to ask lawyer about that.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah, I mean because the only other case, and you
reference this when we went to break there is one
case out of Michigan where this was Oxford High School
the shooting. The school shooting happened in twenty twenty one.
It actually is eerily similar to this case. Four people
died and the shooter was a fifteen year old student
named Ethan Plumley. Both of his parents were held accountable.
(16:34):
They were only charged and convicted with four counts of manslaughter,
but they were and are at least the first parents
ever convicted in a mass shooting and again bottom a
gun ignored the warning signs.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Very very similar case.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
But their son Ethan pleaded guilty, so he was already
and is already in prison for the rest of his life.
And that happened before they brought his par parents to court,
so they did it in reverse, or at least he
decided for whatever reason.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
To plead guilty and not go through a lengthy trial.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
But that was that was a big moment. That was
a big deal for those parents. They were the first,
I guess in this and you know what, A lot
of times, a lot of I think a lot of
parents you can't help. But some people actually say it
on social media. But sometimes it's in the back of
your mind when you see these school shootings, you see, well,
how did the parents not know? Or you start to blame,
(17:30):
like how do they not know? Or how could they
not keep an eye on their kid? Or oh, I
feel bad, what kind of kid did you raise? People
do that kind of stuff ropes, and generally they haven't
gone after parents. But these are a different kind of
egregious cases, but cases, but they haven't generally done.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
So yes, and I've even heard people say that person
should be held accountable. Look in some of these school shootings,
I hate to be Ma Cob here, but we have
seen the shooter go and kill the person who gave
them the gun, the mother, the father, and then go
and shoot this.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
So we've seen folks.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Not held accountable criminally or legally, but certainly they pay
the ultimate price with their life. That that was the
case in Uvaldi, I remember that very clearly. But this
is going to set precedent. Interestingly enough, the plumb leis
James and Jennifer Plumley, the first couple convicted for their
son's actions. They, I say, only, but they only got
ten to fifteen years for their charges, So they'll be
(18:25):
out of prison, you know, I don't know with credit
for time served all of that probably in less than
a decade. This guy, Colin Gray is almost certainly never
getting out of prison.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
But they both I mean, that sends a message right
to a parent, even saying ten years in prison if
I'm not careful about guns in my home and keeping
an eye on my kid robes, that is a significant
I said, I know what you mean. Ten to fifteen
compared to life is not my friends, but my goodness,
(18:58):
that's going to send a message. I don't know about
these other There is another case pending. I didn't even
realize there was a Dad Abundant Life Christian school. Two
were killed in that a teenage girl, I believe, and
then she ended up taking her own life. I believe
that was in Madison. But there's a Dad awaiting trial
on that one. I think a lot of people remember
the one the fourth of July parade or where he
(19:21):
kind of was plucking people off at this parade that
was in Chicago in twenty twenty two that dad did
plead guilty to reckless conduct. I don't know if he
got jail time or how much jail time there. And
then Newport News the six year old had a gun
and shot a teacher at school. Now this one wrote,
somebody needs to be held responsible for that one. Yes,
well as a six year old got a gun.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yes, there's only one way a six year old got
a gun. And again this is one of the many cases. Again,
seventy five percent of these school shootings happened and a
gun is used from the home. And in that case
the mom pleaded guilty to gun charges and got four
years in prison. So it looks like from everything we've seen,
and this is all fairly recent in terms of charging parents,
(20:04):
this case, today's guilty verdict and the sentencing that is
going to follow is certainly the most severe punishment we
have seen to date, and it will be interesting to
see what it does to just I don't know how
parents assume responsibility. I still would think the problem with
(20:25):
this being a deterrent is that no, I think most
parents don't think their kids have this in them. They
don't think their kids are capable of this kind of
heinous violence. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
And also most parents know their kids do not behave
the way these kids have been described as behaving, this
one in particular, cold great, some of the stuff that
came out of this trial. No, that's a little beyond
whoh not my baby.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, And they were just like I believe, he had
a psychiatric evaluation schedule for March fifth, the following day,
the day after the school shooting, So they had been
dragging their feet, and I understand in trying to get
him outside help for his very obvious and documentable aggressions.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
And emotional problems.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I mean, he didn't even go to school his eighth
grade year, that's how bad it was. So certainly there
were warning signs, there were red flags. Let's just hope
that at some point, I know we asked the school,
We ask students to pay attention to those red flags.
If you see something, say something, and we have seen
that prevent mass tragedies. But yeah, parents, parents need to
(21:35):
do better, and this case maybe will make that very
very evident to parents out there who have guns in
their homes. And with that, we just wanted to jump
on and let you know what that verdict was. And
potentially what that may mean in cases going forward, but
we will always keep you up to date on what's
(21:55):
happening around the world.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Thank you so much for listening to us. Everybody, I
made Robot alongside t J. Holmes. We'll talk to you soon.
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