April 27, 2026 • 43 mins
When I was growing up in the sixties, the United States was a tumultuous place. Journalists were heroes, seeking the truth with courage.
So today, when we need them more than ever, it was thrilling to be introduced to two extraordinary journalists: father and daughter, Jorge and Paola Ramos. In their podcast, The Moment, they question, analyse, and report.
We are here together to talk about identity through food, holding power to account and much more.
Heroes indeed.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ruthie's Table four presented by Sky Cold Open.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
You want to be silent, don't be a journalist. I
think part of our responsibility is to question and challenge
those warring power and if we don't do that, then
we're not doing our job as journalists. And our job
mainly is of forth reporting the reality as it is,
but to questions those warring power. Introduction.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Growing up as I did in the sixties, the United
States was a tumultuous time. The assassinations at President Kennedy,
Malcolm X, Martin, Luther King, the Vietnam War, Kent State, Watergates, Selma,
and much much more. In a frightening world, journalists were
heroes seeking the truth with integrity and courage, and so
(00:46):
today when we need them more than ever, it was
thrilling to be introduced to two extraordinary journalists, father and daughter,
Jorge Ramon and Paula Ramon, listening to their podcast, The
Moment is a revelation, a question, they analyze and they
report Hurricane. Paula and I live in different countries and
(01:06):
have different professions, but I feel there are strong connections.
There's Mexico food, friendship and truth. I also have the
feeling this is just the beginning of a strong friendship.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh, thank you so much, beautiful introduction for inviting us.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Are not thrilled. Now we have one way of doing this,
which is that everybody who's on the podcast, that would
you read a recipe? And I was trying to think
of a recipe to choose for you, because I am
passionate about the food of your country and such. The
conversation is about how different it is from the perception
is the reality, I think? But we chose of a
(01:44):
recipe with beans Bilotti beans which are Italian and Languestine,
which are you know, the crayfish they call them. I
don't know what. But with the Languistine the small lobstricts.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
So interesting that you're saying that because us My mom
always cook for Christmas and for the end of the
year sapa the camaron caldo the cameroon, and so it's
a shrimp soup, very very spicy. And I remember the
mornings of December twenty fourth, in December thirty first, that
(02:19):
she would wake up very early in the morning. She
would have a stack of hundreds of little, very little
shrimp cameroon, and then she would peel each one of
them by hand. So by the time we went to
eat it, it was it was my mom's spirit going
through that. But so I've been following for for the
(02:41):
rest of my life that special flavor of caldo the Cameroon,
the shrimp soup, and I'm telling you, I haven't been
able to find it. My mom, fortunately she's alive, but
she's not. But she's not.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
She goes to Mexico and get that recipe.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
But my sister somehow she got there. And and whenever
I go to Spain where she lives, I have calto
the camera on which brings me back to my chaf
Can you describe it? It's very spicy lemonie with with
(03:19):
with with garlic. You have to get the little shrimp
from the from the market. Dry shrimp is dry. It's
dry shrimp, so they get it. You have to get
it in the morning or the day before, and then
you peel hundreds and hundreds of of little tiny shrimp.
(03:40):
Once they do that, they fried it and after that
on the side they would create a broth again spicy
lemone with with oil and so many different species that
I cannot even remember, uh, And then they put it
together all night, So it takes I would say eight
(04:01):
to nine hours just to have it ready. So when
you have it, it's really it's really a treasure for you.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
And you do have it at Christmas, something that.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
We used to have it at Christmas, at Christmas and
New Year's And I was waiting the whole year just
for that because for some reason, I don't know why,
mom My mom wouldn't do it, wouldn't do it throughout
the year. She would wait for that moment, and I'm
still waiting for that.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
I've never seen you, I've never seen him be so
so passionate when you talk about it, No, truly, but
I think that that speaks to the memories that come up.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Because as I'm an immigrant, I came to the United States,
and as I'm an immigrant, you lose so many different things.
So food is a way of bringing me back to
my country. I never wanted to be an immigrant. I
became an immigrant because I had to. I wanted to
be a rocker and a soccer player, but never an immigrant.
(04:54):
And then when you're an immigrant, food brings you back
to your origins, the country where you came from.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
And and Caldo the came Aron the shream soup, tacosal pastor
what is that well, tacos the tacos that you have
on the street in Mexico City where you were.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
You you can walk any neighborhood and then you would
have the tacos on on the street and you eat
the tacos standing up. You have to open your your
legs so the sauce and the lemon and the sausage
from the from the pork wouldn't fall down. And so
(05:35):
I'm always looking for the best tack wall pastor all
over the all over the world, all over the world.
And then no, no, no, the one that I remember
is when I was when I was young in Mexico.
So I'm looking for that flavor that I had when
I was twenty, when I was twenty one, before I
came to the to the United States. And it's I'm
(05:58):
not sure if I've ever gone to find the same
flavor that I that I left.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Now, that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
As an you're always looking for that, for that food
that brings you back, like Marcel proofs, is the time
lost somehow you think you can get it back, Yes,
by by eating the same thing. And then every once
in a while when I go to a restaurant and
I find that that that bite that brings me back
to Mexico, there's something spiritual, something something happens. I'm not religious,
(06:27):
but in that moment, I'm as young as ten years old,
sold as I am.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Right now, that is food. And do you feel as
the next generation? What is your what are your mem
you know your feelings about that?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I think when you when you look at the picture
of what our family is now. I have a Mexican dad,
my mom is Cuban. I grew up in Madrid, but
I was born in Miami. Wow, and so exactly. But
I think it speaks to in a way the way
in which our family has been fragmented, but also I
(07:00):
think comes together and we're able to kind of hold
on to these identities through these memories that my dad
is talking about, right and food. For me, in a way,
it has been honestly the closest thing that I've had,
for instance, to to feeling Cuban right like my my
at least on my mom's side, they have spent their
entire lives living as exiles. I grew up with my
(07:22):
mom's side in Madrid, so with my Cuban grandmother and
my Cuban grandfather and my Mexican grandmother, my dad's mom,
and she was in Mexico. So I have this this proximity,
this closeness with my Cuban side. And what comes up
are two things. No. Number one the Inuano cortaido, specifically
(07:43):
so Cuban coffee. But it's it's it is so sweeted.
It probably gave my grandfather two heart attacks or two
hear attacks that he did have because it is a
shot of espresso with condensed milk. And every day my
grandfather would have two corridos every day, and he passed
away two years ago. But our our routine, the particularly
(08:06):
the last couple of months of of his of his life,
was every afternoon and we would have our good value together.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
At one age, I mean so when you were young, even.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
From since I was young until he passed away when
he was eighty years or he put sugar. I did not.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
One day. I'll tell you the story that one day
my husband, he was the architect with red zap piano
of the Pompaduce Center in Paris, and we used to
walk to back to work after lunch because being Italian,
we had lunch every day at home. That's when I
started really cooking, and so we'd walk back and we'd
go to a cafe and have an espresso, and then
we take the espresso. And one day, by mistake, I
(08:45):
took Renzo's espresso and had sugar in it, and it
was so delicious. Love coffee could taste like because the
Italian's always like probably like the perhaps the Cubans put.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
I mean their sugar everywhere, but specifically that condensed milk
is I mean, I think it's such a I mean,
it's so he was Cuban. My grandfather was a was Cuban.
He was a Cuban XL. So my my mom's said,
fled from Cuba in the early sixties, so right as
is taking over. My grandfather was a political prisoner, so
(09:18):
he was in jail for for over a years under Castro,
under Castro, and then my mom and my grandmother luckily
were able to get out. My grandfather eventually got out,
and obviously, you know, my my dad ends up in
Miami as a Mexican journalist for work. But I think
Miami in that sense brings together I think people that
(09:41):
are that are constantly yearning no and longing in nostalgia,
so that you introviewed Castro.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Fidel Castro, I was Castro tall, and he asked me
if I was living in Miami. I said yes. And
then back then there were no cell phones, and I thought,
if there's nineteen ninety, probably and then I thought, if
somebody takes a picture of me, because he put his
(10:12):
arm around my shoulder, I saw his nails, huge nails,
dirty nails, and I don't know. The brain is incredible
because while I was thinking of all this, I was thinking,
if somebody takes a picture of Fidel Castro embracing me,
I cannot go back to Miami. So I started, So
(10:34):
I started. I started asking him questions about the lack
of democracy there was. Back then, there was the idea
of plap side in Cuba, as you know, the Soviet Union,
the sub reunion had disappeared, so everybody thought Cuba was next.
And then one of his bodyguards, he didn't hit me,
but he pushed me by my stomach and I ended
(10:55):
up on the floor. And then Piel Castro kept from
walking and never looked back, never looked back. Fift nine
second since and I was no. I kind of go
back to you I've.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Been, and which almost gave him a hard a time,
of course, because I went one time when when Obama
opened it, the first time that he opened it, and
I that was a purely personal trip, right that was
a way for me to see where my family had
I did. I visited where my mom was born. I
met some of the very same neighbors that were still
(11:28):
there when she was born in nineteen sixty one, and
that was very emotional. And then I went again during
COVID as a journalist, and so that I went through
Spain and then also questioning my ability to go with
his last name and with my grandpa's last name, Dramos
and Montana, a political prisoner and a journalist that had
been kicked out. And so I went through Spain with
(11:51):
my Spanish passport and I did a small documentary with
with with a producer just with our phones. It was
basically just getting an inside look to the protesters that
had taken the streets of Havana, and many of them
had ended up incarcerated, and so we embedded with some
of the artists that were still protesting and were activists.
(12:13):
We got a very good sense of the repression that
was obviously still in place, and more than anything, we
really witnessed the way that the pandemic had just you know,
really pushed the country into unprecedented crisis. I think the
vary same crisis that we're seeing right now.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
That Venezuela could also be Rubia's US Cuba.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Absolutely, I think that part of the problem is that
there seems to be no plan B. So you take
the dictator and then what do you do?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
But I think that is I think Rubio comes from
a family of Cuban immigrants. His rise, his political rise
is due and thanks to the Cuban American elite in Florida.
And so I think maybe for someone like Trump, this
is there's there's no incentive in all of this, right.
Maybe for him it's just about power and and and money.
(13:06):
But I think for someone like Rubio, to your point,
I think there's like a real ideological mission there, right
and and and.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
It's something new right now. I think it's a new
doctrine completely. No, people say it's not the Monroe doctrine,
don Row, that's how Trump likes to call it, Yeah,
but I think it's really the Trump doctrine.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And in which is basically America for Trump's power power
power power, and then the world divided between put In
in eastern Europe and then China on Asia and the
United States controlling the western hemisphere.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
But when you were talking about Venezuela, you did tell
uh that you stage and that is the people were eating.
You did bring up food. You brought up the food.
Didn't you tell that story?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
What happened is that I Nicolas mother Inviti met for
an interview. He was gonna nobody gives you an intro.
They think they're going to lose, so he thought he
was gonna win. And I started the interview telling him
right from that he was a dictator. Obviously he didn't
like that, but he kept on talking to me. We
talked about political prisoners. But then the days before the
(14:15):
interview with Nicolas Maduro, I remember driving with my team
and then noticing that people were very hungry, uh in
that they were eating from trash cans. Close to the
Palasa Ima, Florida is the presidential palace. I saw a
trash truck come into Bauda and there were kids eating
(14:40):
from the from the truck.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Had you ever seen that anywhere else?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yes? Everywhere.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Okay, I've seen democracy, Yeah, I've seen it everywhere.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
You see it, you see even in the United States,
in Europe, I've seen it everywhere. But when you're in
a revolution and you say, as they were saying, that
people were not hungry and that people were doing better,
and that you couldn't see that, I just wanted to
tell him that it was also happening in Venezuela. So
I show him the image of the kids eating from
(15:10):
the from the trash cans, and he stood for everything
except for that image. So he stood up, he put
his hand in front of the laptop, trying to to
prevent the cameras from from seeing that, and he stopped
the interview. Not only that they stopped the interview, they
(15:31):
stole our cameras, they stole the video cards, They arrested us,
and then they deported us the day after.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
And they do they have to have grounds for rescue
or do they just the grounds were that we were asking,
or that we were showing the president, the dictatoring images
that he didn't want to see.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So he wanted to prove that he was a democratic leader.
I think at the end we proved that he was not.
But everything at the end had to do with that
image of kids eating from Somebody.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Said that to me last night. I had dinner in
San Francisco, and I was condemning. I think we all
feel that there are two separate issues here. One is
walking into a country and say you're going to run
the country, and the other one is what you're talking
about the person there.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
And it happens every where.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
I mean, we have with you they were eating garbage,
you know, and you know, and yes, you know, they
were eating garbage, and it's a terrible in their continuation.
And there are and we have you know, food poverty
is a huge issue.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I think even now in the US, right, I mean,
I think the number one issue on voter's mind Democrats
or Republicans is the issue of affordability.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
It's it's the idea that even the most you know,
the richest country in the world, you know, has families
that literally can can't make it. And so I've you know,
I think even even in New York, it's been interesting
to I live in New York and I've spent obviously
a lot of time with different type of voters, and
even hearing some Trump voters like Deep in Brooklyn, like
(17:06):
Diaker's Heights, suddenly finds something appealing and someone as you know,
progressive as Zoharmandani, And it comes down to that and
to this idea of affordability of not having literally enough
food on their plates. And so I think it's it's
the top issue for everybody right now.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
So this is the recipe. So it's Langostein with Borlotti beans,
which you know are the reds. Okay, so you can
meet it anyway.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Langostin's with Borlotti beans.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Serves two three hundred grams potted fresh Borlotti beans.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Too, garlic CLOBs appealed.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Six fresh sage leaves.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Fifteen milligrams of olive.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Oil, one hundred milligrams of extra virgin olive oil plus
extra for.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Drizzling, okay, juice of one lemon.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Twelve langosteins clicked and peel.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
One fresh red chili, seated and finely chopped.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
A small bunch of fresh marjoram leave chopped.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
All right, Okay, So put the blody beans in a
large pan and covered with water.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Add the garlic cloves, stage leaves, and olive oil.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Bring to the boil, then reduce the heat and simmer
for about forty minutes, or until the beans are softened
and edible.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Drain off any extra liquid from the pan.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Add the extra virgin oil, lemon juice, and pull langostins
to the warm beans and toss gently over a low
heat until the langostins are just warmed through.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Transfer to serving plates. Add the chili and marjora and
drizzle with extra virgin olive oil.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Okay, thank you, how much.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Pronounced real lesson here the real services. We don't really cook.
But I think those those memories, and that's why I
kind of stopped you when you were talking about that's
a bigamadon, because that passion honestly comes out from you.
(19:13):
And I said to my mom and my grandparents, through food,
through these memories that take you back.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
And even within the family. Something interesting is that she
learned to drink coffee, but in Mexico. For some reason,
my mom when we were growing up, she she used
to say that only adults could drink coffee. So I
grew up drinking hot chocolate, which I do want till
this time. And then I started just drinking coffee, maybe
(19:39):
a couple of months ago, because because they say it's
good for my stomach. So you know, I had.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
To trade my dad. Yeah, I mean every single night
my dad drinks hot chocolate's.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, well it's even worse. That's quite modern, I think, nice.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Quick, Well, it's just the same, the same favor.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
What about the chocolate of Mexico in Mohawka we went
when we were in Maha.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I'm not sure if you were not getting into this,
but my mom and my dad they had a great relationship,
but up to a point, after forty years and five kids,
there was something missing. No, so, so my my father
was very, very strict, but he every night he expected
hot chocolate, Mexican hot chocolate made by my mom, and
(20:33):
it had to be in a special way with foam
at the top. But if it was not at the
right temperature and with form at the top, my dad
horribly would push aside the hot chocolate and said it's
not right, and he wouldn't he wouldn't rinkt it. So
my mom, with a lot of discipline years, she did
(20:54):
it for almost forty years, and one night she said,
hard Head, that was his name, I'm not gonna make
that hot chocolate for you ever again. And then they split.
They split my dad left.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
And did you find someone else who could make me?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
She went to my grandma's house where she would do
the chocolate. Anyway, Eventually my dad came back, and my
mom kept on doing the hot chocolate until your dad
came back, and then she kept on doing the hot chocolate.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
The misconception I think about Mexican food because in the
United States, you know, which is that it was heavy.
There's a lot of food on the plate. You have
mixtures of tortillas and this and that, and beans and
rice and everything. And then I went to Mexico and
it's very light food. It was clean, it was pure,
it was a beautiful piece of fish that had been
(21:54):
cooked with you know, chili's or you know, something very
delicate and very thought out.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
It's very sophisticated.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
And even at the street food is as well. When
you're describing, you know, the tacos or the pritos of
what you're having, there's still is a clarity of taste.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I think, And right now, I'm sure you realize that
just a few months ago, there there's a take area,
a place for tacos that got a Michelin start for
the first time.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Where was that in Mexico City, in Mexico City, in Mexico.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
City, and then it used to be just a regular
place for tacos, and now has become there are lines
and lines and people wait for hours just to get it.
You're absolutely right. In Mexico. Mexico City has become a
place that you go just just to go to different restaurants,
and the food is see in crewdbly sophisticated. There's a
wonderful restaurant called It's Amazing by chef, and then you
(22:48):
go to Pujoel and then you realize that it is
that Mexican food has traveled very well.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I loved I don't know if you used to do that,
but hours that exited people in Mexico City. Eight. So
here you have you'd have break breakfast. What we did.
My friends and I would go out to breakfast a
place called Nido and we would go out at about
ten or eleven have breakfast. I'd go to the hospital.
Then we'd have breakfast, and then you'd have kind of
(23:18):
late late late lunch at about four. I'd sit there
till about six six thirty and then no dinner. And
I love that they'd have an apple or something a
piece of fruit.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
That's what they call. So there's a name for them.
It's called which is essentially, yeah, you your meal, but
then the aftermath, which is the beautiful part right where
you just you talk and you converse, and I think
that I always notice when I'm in Mexico if you
look around, no one's on their phones. Yeah, right, like truly,
And then I remember, like every time I land back
(23:49):
in the US and you're having a meal, like we're
all just connected. But that's that to me is also
my favorite part.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Go back to Mexicana as at as I can trying to.
When you're an immigrant, you're always looking for home, and
for me, home was where I grew up as a kid.
But did you leave I was twenty five.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah. It's interesting that you defined so much of your
being as an immigrant because you said I could have
been a soccer player, but I became an immigrant. Well,
there are soccer players who were immigrants and immigrants who
become soccer players, but you saw that as a no.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah, because as an immigrant. De beauty of it is
that I have two passports, the green one, the Mexican one,
and the blue one, and I choose to be either
Mexican or American. Whenever I go to Mexico City and
see the lines at the airport, so the shorter line,
I become a Mexican or American. So in the best
(24:50):
of times, I can be from both countries. But nowadays
it is very difficult. And sometimes when I'm in Mexico,
I'm told you betray the country. You left the so
you're not Mexican. And here in the United.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
States, I think who would say that, Well, even.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Some friends, even members of the family, who might think
that I did the wrong thing by leaving the country.
And then now that I'm in the United States, especially
in the last ten years, many people think that I
don't belong to this country and they tell you openly
not just go back to your country, go back to
your country. So that's why to be an immigrant is
(25:28):
my identity. And then and that that's something that you
really cannot cannot change. Maybe maybe it's the time. Maybe
if it was an over time it would be it
would be different, that you would feel welcome every word,
not anymore.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Do you feel do you feel that identity? No?
Speaker 3 (25:44):
I mean I sure I've gone through moments of identity crisis,
for sure, But I think I think that's the one
of the distinguishing factors between these generations, right, I think
the second third generation, I think we have understood, like
my brother and I have understood that we can hold
many different things at once and that and that that
(26:05):
in and of itself is American. No, that is that
is an American identity. I think I look at my parents' generation,
I look at other generations of other Latinos that are
way less privileged than we are, right, that have to
kind of like tiptoe around things, or have to assimilate,
or have to change their accents, or have to conform
to whatever they think means and looks American. And I
(26:27):
think we know the quote like younger generations. I think
we've understood that you can and should be proud and
I and I do sense that difference between us, right
Like I think I look at my parents, I look
at my grandparents, and I think there was a little
bit of that game, no, of trying to conform. And
at the same time, I think the yearning is real,
(26:47):
you know that this idea of even even thinking about
like where does one where does where does one spend
the last years of one's life? No, for my grandfather,
the dream was always to go back to Cuba. And
I think for you, Dad, for many years you've you
I at least played with the idea of going back
to Mexico one day, even exactly for for my mom,
(27:10):
I think she chose Spain because Cuba is too far
and so you know, a framing New York City is home. Yeah,
but I am you know, I'm always. I'm always. I've
fabricated this idea of what I think, where I think
I come from. And I think to my dad's point
of going to Mexico and not feeling Mexican enough being
(27:32):
here and not feeling American enough, I sometimes feel that,
you know.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I've been an immigrant for since I was nineteen, because
I went to England for six months and ended up
living there fifty years. And I think if you talk
to a lot of my grandchildren, that's daughters of my sons,
very often their identity will not be their country, it
will be their city. They will say I'm a Londoner
(27:56):
rather than I'm British. That even gets more extreme, you know,
they'll say I'm from Brooklyn, I'm not from Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
I feel that that's true.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Okay, And you know, people, and I think that identity
is so complicated now, so where we you know, what
we identify with as an American. I know that right
now when everybody says to me, you're so lucky, and
I feel, you know, to be out of America right now,
there's part of me that's never wanted to be there more.
(28:23):
You know, I think I should go back, I should fight,
I should oppose, we should you know what am I doing?
And you know? And then people who want to leave
as part of their identities because the politics are so
so wrong that they want to leave it.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
In the city where where I live, in Miami, it's
a city where you find millions of people fleeing from
other countries. So so it's a city full of immigrants
of foreigners, and that that the term is also your
your identity. I promise I won't get too much into
politiciz No. But now that that we have all these
(28:59):
conversations Venezuela and what happened with with Nicolas Maduro, there
are hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans in in Miami. They
were celebrating what happened, even though politicians are saying different things. Okay,
what's interesting is that Venezuelans right now talking about food,
they're saying they didn't come for the arepas. In other words,
(29:22):
the Americans didn't go to Venezuela for the arepas. The
APAs is what is theas is? Imagine a small thick tortilla, Yeah,
which is the natural food in in in in Venezuela.
So it's interesting that Venezuelans uh in the next we're
(29:43):
talking more than eight million people, they are defining the
political situation in food terms. In other words, the Americans
didn't come for for the food. The Americans didn't come
for the arepas, and and and nothing that is. That's
that phrase explains pretty much what's happening right now now that.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
This all makes me think of just because we keep
talking about immigration in politics, I feel like one of
the things that I think we're living through as a country,
or I think the breaking point that I see is
that all of these stories and all of us even
know this idea of coming to the US, immigrating to
the US. I think the breaking point now is that
everything is about reverse migration. Right like the trend now
(30:26):
is to no longer come north now, the trend now
is to no longer look at the US as this
like beacon of hope. The numbers and this is all
like numbers. Now, the numbers point to something that is
culminating into I think generation of immigrants that are leaving.
And I mentioned this because I think, perhaps, you know,
I think this country has debated for decades at this point,
(30:46):
like what is the value of an immigrant? And is
it economics? Is it whatever it is? Perhaps finally, you know,
when people keep leaving, keep leaving, with their cultures, with
their foods closing rest rounds, the food disappears, like maybe, right,
that is that is the way in which America starts
(31:07):
to truly understand now the value of immigrants. And imagine
it's because it's happening as we speak. You know, Venezuela
is happening all this, but but immigrants are leaving, and
with that food leaves as well.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
The numbers one point six million have self deported, self supported.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
So would you stay in the country where you exactly?
They don't want to be put on an airplane.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
And when parents leave in the morning to work, they
don't know if they're going to see their children again.
There's a song in Mexico, I promise not to sing
for a couple.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Of butt you've been listening to the I didn't have
to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I did that. I did my homework. But but there's
a song in Mexico called e bolbeert Bolbert Bolbert, which
means and go back, go back, go back to your
arms again. That's that's what many many Mexicans are singing
right now, are actually acting upon going back to the country.
(32:03):
And then maybe that's it. That's a dream of every
immigrant to be able to go back to your country authority.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Well maybe, well, well, as I said, I still my
family is there, my children are there, my work is there,
my husband's architecture. But I do feel, you know, except
for Las Vegas, which is a little bit of a part.
We haven't told everyone listening that we actually actually this
(32:30):
is coming live from Las Vegas, which is another world,
isn't it. And I actually I thought a little bit
about Francis when I came here, because do you remember
those scenes in The Godfather. It's the very beginning of
Las Vegas and how this all you know, came out.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
We're also in a huge political hub, and I mean
this has been a battleground city and state, and there
is a the Mexican spot that every candidate stops by.
So maybe that's another right to try you.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
You kept I know, you worked for Hillary Clinton and
Obama and Biden.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I did, yeah, and then I left police.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
And then who was the best it was? Where was
the best food?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Which the best food?
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Clinton?
Speaker 3 (33:14):
The best food? I with?
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Did you eat in the White House?
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Did I know? I did eat at the White I
did the West Wing. But I gained weight at the
White House, I for sure, Yeah, because I mean you
just sat there for like twelve hours of the day.
But also that's where people understood how bad my my
coffee making skills were. Because the beginning of my of
my adventure at the White House, I was like twenty
(33:41):
two years old. I was working in the Obama administration.
So I was an assistant. I was an assistant to
doctor Biden when she was a second Lady, and and
oftentimes fifty percent of my job was to make coffee.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
Today.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Very bad.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah, you gotta keep it.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
No, No, I've asked. I interviewed for people who worked
in the White House, and I always ask you know,
what was what did you eat? What did you eat?
Did you eat in downstairs in the mess now that.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
I'm remembering and remembering when I was working for the
Bidens during the first Obama administration, we spend a lot
of time in nave ops now the Naval Observatory, which
is where Vice President Biden and Doctor Biden would live.
And the parties that they would throw right like the
Christmas parties Thanksgiving. The food was very good, very very
good people. I mean, yes, people would go for them,
(34:37):
but the food was always a plus.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
I remember that, are you talking about the White House
before the State of the Union? Presidents they have the
the tradition is that journalists go to eat with the
president before the State of the Union. And I went
a couple of times with President Obama and I was
always surprised that he didn't eat. Yeah, everybody would eating
(35:01):
just like a salad, not not really right food, but
he wouldn't need it at all at all.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
What is your work now? What are you working on?
Speaker 3 (35:14):
So after the twenty sixteen campaign, I left politics, and
I loved because I think I obviously probably influenced by
a father as a journalist. My mom is a journalist,
my grandfather was a journalist, and so I think inevitably,
inevitably I was going to end up being as crazy
as them. And so I think being inside of politics,
(35:36):
particularly that campaign where so much of my job was Clinton.
The Clinton campaign. Yeah, so much of my job in
that campaign was was around understanding the Latino vote. And
John Podesto was there, and so we thought we knew right,
We thought that we understood the numbers, and every number
(35:56):
was pointing to this idea that in the face of
someone like Donald Trump, that Latinos would kind of rise
in these unprecedented numbers and that it would be this
historic wave against Donald Trump. And that didn't happen. So
I think in that moment, which you dad, my dad
that was outside and reporting, and he would call me
when I was in the Clinton headquarters and he would say,
(36:19):
you know, you guys aren't seeing what we're seeing on
the ground right. What we're seeing on the ground is
a country that is about to favor Trump and me
from inside the political bubble, I wouldn't believe him. So
I think that that moment for me was was kind
of what pushed me out of politics and drove me
into journalism. And for the past, you know, since twenty
sixteen until now, I've I've been deep in it. I've
(36:39):
spent many years with with Vice News, doing documentaries and
traveling the world, making my parents very very worried, very worried,
and I do you know, I'm a contributor with MSNBC,
and then so I'm I'm deep in it and it
feels right.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Tell us about the podcast. Tell us how it started,
because you're, as you said, you're new on the blog
and this is anything. Tell us everything about it.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Well, it started simply because Apalla grew up as a
teenager in another country, and this was an incredible opportunity
for us to work together this year.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
In particular there, I think people feel very overwhelmed with
the news. I think there's a tendency to want to
kind of tune out. And more than anything, I think
everyone can say that people are trying to make sense
of what's happening, yeah, and doing it with nuance. I
think both of us come obviously from a world of
mainstream media, and I think the podcast gives us something
(37:38):
that I think we've never experienced in our life in journalism,
which is the privilege of time, the privilege of having
one hour with one guest to truly break down some
of the most complicated issues and do it with nuance
and with care and to I think for me one
of the best part is to suddenly see a different
part of someone that you thought you knew, or a
different part of the news, and you can only truly
(38:01):
do that through this platform.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Right.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
I think we've spent so many years talking in soundbites,
responding to news, doing breaking news, and so to have this,
I think our hope is that that we simply allow
people to have a better understanding and to trust, which
I think trust is being lost now there's the era
of trusting news is almost gone.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
For forty years, I was doing five minute interviews and
then of course you started five minutes. That was at
the most. I was doing a newscast for thirty eight years.
So this is the first opportunity that I have to
tell what I to the people, how I feel, and
to put it in perspective, not just report the news.
I was not supposed and I never did give my opinion,
(38:48):
but now it's a wonderful opportunity. And then just to
make sense of what's happening. And especially for Latinos, we're underrepresented.
There are about sixty five million Latinos right now. Percent
of the population, and we.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Say that there are how many Latinas.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Sixty five million, sixty living in the United States, So
one in five people in the United States. Twenty percent
of the population is Latino. But you see you turn
on the TV, you go to the movies, go to
city hall, talk to politicians, political parties, and we're not there.
You don't see us. We're invisible. No, that twenty percent
(39:27):
doesn't appear anywhere. And I think part of what we
are doing with the podcast is making sure that we
are seeing that we're not invisible, that we're part of
this country, that that people know that we're not criminals
and rapists and terrorists, that we are part of the country.
I think Venezuela's going to stay with us for a
while and then at the end of the year is
(39:47):
going to be the midterm elections and how Trump is
changing the world.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Have you met him? You got the yeah, because you
couldn't say it's well, he knew I were You said,
excuse me.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Exactly, and he wanted me just to wait for him
to give me to the authorization to speak. As a journalist,
you don't do that. There's a space you ask a question,
and that's it. So I was ejected by a body
by his bodyguard, and then we said, this is dangerous,
this is against the fremeral of the press. Nobody pays
(40:24):
nobody pays attention to us. I think we were right.
This is not a time to be silent. If you
want to be silent, don't be a journalist. I think
part of our responsibility is to question and challenge those
who are in power. And if we don't do that,
then we're not doing our jobs as journalists. Part of
the problem with we trust and what people are not
(40:47):
trusting journalist is because we're not doing our job. And
our job mainly is of course reporting the reality as
it is, but to questions those war in power.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Oh, that's what we need you and thank you for
taking the time. One last question, which is that we
ask everybody a question, both of you to answer each
of you. The food is staying hunger, you know, it's
food is a way of sharing. Food is a way
of expressing love and welcoming your home and welcoming you
back to the country. It's also comfort and so my
(41:19):
last question to each of you is if you reach
for food for comfort, what food would that be?
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Yeah, it's easy for me. I mean when I'm always
looking for the best tacos, tacos pastor and because he'll
bring me back to my childhood and will bring me
back to the country that I left. So I'm looking
for the not for the best tacos, but the same
flavor that I had when I was when I was
(41:48):
a kid.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Yeah, and for me, I think of, tell us what
that is black beans? My grandma's black beans.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Yeah, idea.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
It is, but that but that's that's my my Cuban grandmother's,
like the the one recipe that she still stands by
that she learned from her mother in Cuba, from her
great grandmother who was Lebanese and ended up in Cuba.
And it's these these black beans that she does with
like so much care and love. And yes it's the taste,
(42:27):
but it's the smell of of like of venturing that
house on Miami. That's the same smell that I feel
when I enter the house in Madrid. And so that consistency,
I think of a family that has lived everywhere. I
love that. That's the beans. I don't even know if
you like.
Speaker 6 (42:50):
Ruthie's Table for was produced by Alex Bell, Robbie Hamilton,
Natalie Kane and Zad Rogers with Susanna His Robbie Hamilton,
Andrew Sang, Alex Baby Dan, Naranjo Rodriguez and Bella Selini.
This has been an atomized production for iHeartMedia.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Ruthie's Table four is proud to support Leukemia UK. Their
Cartwheel for a Cure campaign raises funds for vital research
and more effective and kinder treatments.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
For a cute my Lloyd Leukemia.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Please donate and to do so search Cartwheel for a Cure.
Ruthie's Table four presented by Sky
Ruthie's Table four presented by Sky Cold Open.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
You want to be silent, don't be a journalist. I
think part of our responsibility is to question and challenge
those warring power and if we don't do that, then
we're not doing our job as journalists. And our job
mainly is of forth reporting the reality as it is,
but to questions those warring power. Introduction.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Growing up as I did in the sixties, the United
States was a tumultuous time. The assassinations at President Kennedy,
Malcolm X, Martin, Luther King, the Vietnam War, Kent State, Watergates, Selma,
and much much more. In a frightening world, journalists were
heroes seeking the truth with integrity and courage, and so
(00:46):
today when we need them more than ever, it was
thrilling to be introduced to two extraordinary journalists, father and daughter,
Jorge Ramon and Paula Ramon, listening to their podcast, The
Moment is a revelation, a question, they analyze and they
report Hurricane. Paula and I live in different countries and
(01:06):
have different professions, but I feel there are strong connections.
There's Mexico food, friendship and truth. I also have the
feeling this is just the beginning of a strong friendship.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh, thank you so much, beautiful introduction for inviting us.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Are not thrilled. Now we have one way of doing this,
which is that everybody who's on the podcast, that would
you read a recipe? And I was trying to think
of a recipe to choose for you, because I am
passionate about the food of your country and such. The
conversation is about how different it is from the perception
is the reality, I think? But we chose of a
(01:44):
recipe with beans Bilotti beans which are Italian and Languestine,
which are you know, the crayfish they call them. I
don't know what. But with the Languistine the small lobstricts.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
So interesting that you're saying that because us My mom
always cook for Christmas and for the end of the
year sapa the camaron caldo the cameroon, and so it's
a shrimp soup, very very spicy. And I remember the
mornings of December twenty fourth, in December thirty first, that
(02:19):
she would wake up very early in the morning. She
would have a stack of hundreds of little, very little
shrimp cameroon, and then she would peel each one of
them by hand. So by the time we went to
eat it, it was it was my mom's spirit going
through that. But so I've been following for for the
(02:41):
rest of my life that special flavor of caldo the Cameroon,
the shrimp soup, and I'm telling you, I haven't been
able to find it. My mom, fortunately she's alive, but
she's not. But she's not.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
She goes to Mexico and get that recipe.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
But my sister somehow she got there. And and whenever
I go to Spain where she lives, I have calto
the camera on which brings me back to my chaf
Can you describe it? It's very spicy lemonie with with
(03:19):
with with garlic. You have to get the little shrimp
from the from the market. Dry shrimp is dry. It's
dry shrimp, so they get it. You have to get
it in the morning or the day before, and then
you peel hundreds and hundreds of of little tiny shrimp.
(03:40):
Once they do that, they fried it and after that
on the side they would create a broth again spicy
lemone with with oil and so many different species that
I cannot even remember, uh, And then they put it
together all night, So it takes I would say eight
(04:01):
to nine hours just to have it ready. So when
you have it, it's really it's really a treasure for you.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
And you do have it at Christmas, something that.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
We used to have it at Christmas, at Christmas and
New Year's And I was waiting the whole year just
for that because for some reason, I don't know why,
mom My mom wouldn't do it, wouldn't do it throughout
the year. She would wait for that moment, and I'm
still waiting for that.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
I've never seen you, I've never seen him be so
so passionate when you talk about it, No, truly, but
I think that that speaks to the memories that come up.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Because as I'm an immigrant, I came to the United States,
and as I'm an immigrant, you lose so many different things.
So food is a way of bringing me back to
my country. I never wanted to be an immigrant. I
became an immigrant because I had to. I wanted to
be a rocker and a soccer player, but never an immigrant.
(04:54):
And then when you're an immigrant, food brings you back
to your origins, the country where you came from.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
And and Caldo the came Aron the shream soup, tacosal pastor
what is that well, tacos the tacos that you have
on the street in Mexico City where you were.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
You you can walk any neighborhood and then you would
have the tacos on on the street and you eat
the tacos standing up. You have to open your your
legs so the sauce and the lemon and the sausage
from the from the pork wouldn't fall down. And so
(05:35):
I'm always looking for the best tack wall pastor all
over the all over the world, all over the world.
And then no, no, no, the one that I remember
is when I was when I was young in Mexico.
So I'm looking for that flavor that I had when
I was twenty, when I was twenty one, before I
came to the to the United States. And it's I'm
(05:58):
not sure if I've ever gone to find the same
flavor that I that I left.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Now, that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
As an you're always looking for that, for that food
that brings you back, like Marcel proofs, is the time
lost somehow you think you can get it back, Yes,
by by eating the same thing. And then every once
in a while when I go to a restaurant and
I find that that that bite that brings me back
to Mexico, there's something spiritual, something something happens. I'm not religious,
(06:27):
but in that moment, I'm as young as ten years old,
sold as I am.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Right now, that is food. And do you feel as
the next generation? What is your what are your mem
you know your feelings about that?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I think when you when you look at the picture
of what our family is now. I have a Mexican dad,
my mom is Cuban. I grew up in Madrid, but
I was born in Miami. Wow, and so exactly. But
I think it speaks to in a way the way
in which our family has been fragmented, but also I
(07:00):
think comes together and we're able to kind of hold
on to these identities through these memories that my dad
is talking about, right and food. For me, in a way,
it has been honestly the closest thing that I've had,
for instance, to to feeling Cuban right like my my
at least on my mom's side, they have spent their
entire lives living as exiles. I grew up with my
(07:22):
mom's side in Madrid, so with my Cuban grandmother and
my Cuban grandfather and my Mexican grandmother, my dad's mom,
and she was in Mexico. So I have this this proximity,
this closeness with my Cuban side. And what comes up
are two things. No. Number one the Inuano cortaido, specifically
(07:43):
so Cuban coffee. But it's it's it is so sweeted.
It probably gave my grandfather two heart attacks or two
hear attacks that he did have because it is a
shot of espresso with condensed milk. And every day my
grandfather would have two corridos every day, and he passed
away two years ago. But our our routine, the particularly
(08:06):
the last couple of months of of his of his life,
was every afternoon and we would have our good value together.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
At one age, I mean so when you were young, even.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
From since I was young until he passed away when
he was eighty years or he put sugar. I did not.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
One day. I'll tell you the story that one day
my husband, he was the architect with red zap piano
of the Pompaduce Center in Paris, and we used to
walk to back to work after lunch because being Italian,
we had lunch every day at home. That's when I
started really cooking, and so we'd walk back and we'd
go to a cafe and have an espresso, and then
we take the espresso. And one day, by mistake, I
(08:45):
took Renzo's espresso and had sugar in it, and it
was so delicious. Love coffee could taste like because the
Italian's always like probably like the perhaps the Cubans put.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
I mean their sugar everywhere, but specifically that condensed milk
is I mean, I think it's such a I mean,
it's so he was Cuban. My grandfather was a was Cuban.
He was a Cuban XL. So my my mom's said,
fled from Cuba in the early sixties, so right as
is taking over. My grandfather was a political prisoner, so
(09:18):
he was in jail for for over a years under Castro,
under Castro, and then my mom and my grandmother luckily
were able to get out. My grandfather eventually got out,
and obviously, you know, my my dad ends up in
Miami as a Mexican journalist for work. But I think
Miami in that sense brings together I think people that
(09:41):
are that are constantly yearning no and longing in nostalgia,
so that you introviewed Castro.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Fidel Castro, I was Castro tall, and he asked me
if I was living in Miami. I said yes. And
then back then there were no cell phones, and I thought,
if there's nineteen ninety, probably and then I thought, if
somebody takes a picture of me, because he put his
(10:12):
arm around my shoulder, I saw his nails, huge nails,
dirty nails, and I don't know. The brain is incredible
because while I was thinking of all this, I was thinking,
if somebody takes a picture of Fidel Castro embracing me,
I cannot go back to Miami. So I started, So
(10:34):
I started. I started asking him questions about the lack
of democracy there was. Back then, there was the idea
of plap side in Cuba, as you know, the Soviet Union,
the sub reunion had disappeared, so everybody thought Cuba was next.
And then one of his bodyguards, he didn't hit me,
but he pushed me by my stomach and I ended
(10:55):
up on the floor. And then Piel Castro kept from
walking and never looked back, never looked back. Fift nine
second since and I was no. I kind of go
back to you I've.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Been, and which almost gave him a hard a time,
of course, because I went one time when when Obama
opened it, the first time that he opened it, and
I that was a purely personal trip, right that was
a way for me to see where my family had
I did. I visited where my mom was born. I
met some of the very same neighbors that were still
(11:28):
there when she was born in nineteen sixty one, and
that was very emotional. And then I went again during
COVID as a journalist, and so that I went through
Spain and then also questioning my ability to go with
his last name and with my grandpa's last name, Dramos
and Montana, a political prisoner and a journalist that had
been kicked out. And so I went through Spain with
(11:51):
my Spanish passport and I did a small documentary with
with with a producer just with our phones. It was
basically just getting an inside look to the protesters that
had taken the streets of Havana, and many of them
had ended up incarcerated, and so we embedded with some
of the artists that were still protesting and were activists.
(12:13):
We got a very good sense of the repression that
was obviously still in place, and more than anything, we
really witnessed the way that the pandemic had just you know,
really pushed the country into unprecedented crisis. I think the
vary same crisis that we're seeing right now.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
That Venezuela could also be Rubia's US Cuba.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Absolutely, I think that part of the problem is that
there seems to be no plan B. So you take
the dictator and then what do you do?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
But I think that is I think Rubio comes from
a family of Cuban immigrants. His rise, his political rise
is due and thanks to the Cuban American elite in Florida.
And so I think maybe for someone like Trump, this
is there's there's no incentive in all of this, right.
Maybe for him it's just about power and and and money.
(13:06):
But I think for someone like Rubio, to your point,
I think there's like a real ideological mission there, right
and and and.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
It's something new right now. I think it's a new
doctrine completely. No, people say it's not the Monroe doctrine,
don Row, that's how Trump likes to call it, Yeah,
but I think it's really the Trump doctrine.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And in which is basically America for Trump's power power
power power, and then the world divided between put In
in eastern Europe and then China on Asia and the
United States controlling the western hemisphere.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
But when you were talking about Venezuela, you did tell
uh that you stage and that is the people were eating.
You did bring up food. You brought up the food.
Didn't you tell that story?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
What happened is that I Nicolas mother Inviti met for
an interview. He was gonna nobody gives you an intro.
They think they're going to lose, so he thought he
was gonna win. And I started the interview telling him
right from that he was a dictator. Obviously he didn't
like that, but he kept on talking to me. We
talked about political prisoners. But then the days before the
(14:15):
interview with Nicolas Maduro, I remember driving with my team
and then noticing that people were very hungry, uh in
that they were eating from trash cans. Close to the
Palasa Ima, Florida is the presidential palace. I saw a
trash truck come into Bauda and there were kids eating
(14:40):
from the from the truck.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Had you ever seen that anywhere else?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yes? Everywhere.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Okay, I've seen democracy, Yeah, I've seen it everywhere.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
You see it, you see even in the United States,
in Europe, I've seen it everywhere. But when you're in
a revolution and you say, as they were saying, that
people were not hungry and that people were doing better,
and that you couldn't see that, I just wanted to
tell him that it was also happening in Venezuela. So
I show him the image of the kids eating from
(15:10):
the from the trash cans, and he stood for everything
except for that image. So he stood up, he put
his hand in front of the laptop, trying to to
prevent the cameras from from seeing that, and he stopped
the interview. Not only that they stopped the interview, they
(15:31):
stole our cameras, they stole the video cards, They arrested us,
and then they deported us the day after.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
And they do they have to have grounds for rescue
or do they just the grounds were that we were asking,
or that we were showing the president, the dictatoring images
that he didn't want to see.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So he wanted to prove that he was a democratic leader.
I think at the end we proved that he was not.
But everything at the end had to do with that
image of kids eating from Somebody.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Said that to me last night. I had dinner in
San Francisco, and I was condemning. I think we all
feel that there are two separate issues here. One is
walking into a country and say you're going to run
the country, and the other one is what you're talking
about the person there.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
And it happens every where.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
I mean, we have with you they were eating garbage,
you know, and you know, and yes, you know, they
were eating garbage, and it's a terrible in their continuation.
And there are and we have you know, food poverty
is a huge issue.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I think even now in the US, right, I mean,
I think the number one issue on voter's mind Democrats
or Republicans is the issue of affordability.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
It's it's the idea that even the most you know,
the richest country in the world, you know, has families
that literally can can't make it. And so I've you know,
I think even even in New York, it's been interesting
to I live in New York and I've spent obviously
a lot of time with different type of voters, and
even hearing some Trump voters like Deep in Brooklyn, like
(17:06):
Diaker's Heights, suddenly finds something appealing and someone as you know,
progressive as Zoharmandani, And it comes down to that and
to this idea of affordability of not having literally enough
food on their plates. And so I think it's it's
the top issue for everybody right now.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
So this is the recipe. So it's Langostein with Borlotti beans,
which you know are the reds. Okay, so you can
meet it anyway.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Langostin's with Borlotti beans.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Serves two three hundred grams potted fresh Borlotti beans.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Too, garlic CLOBs appealed.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Six fresh sage leaves.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Fifteen milligrams of olive.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Oil, one hundred milligrams of extra virgin olive oil plus
extra for.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Drizzling, okay, juice of one lemon.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Twelve langosteins clicked and peel.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
One fresh red chili, seated and finely chopped.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
A small bunch of fresh marjoram leave chopped.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
All right, Okay, So put the blody beans in a
large pan and covered with water.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Add the garlic cloves, stage leaves, and olive oil.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Bring to the boil, then reduce the heat and simmer
for about forty minutes, or until the beans are softened
and edible.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Drain off any extra liquid from the pan.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Add the extra virgin oil, lemon juice, and pull langostins
to the warm beans and toss gently over a low
heat until the langostins are just warmed through.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Transfer to serving plates. Add the chili and marjora and
drizzle with extra virgin olive oil.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Okay, thank you, how much.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Pronounced real lesson here the real services. We don't really cook.
But I think those those memories, and that's why I
kind of stopped you when you were talking about that's
a bigamadon, because that passion honestly comes out from you.
(19:13):
And I said to my mom and my grandparents, through food,
through these memories that take you back.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
And even within the family. Something interesting is that she
learned to drink coffee, but in Mexico. For some reason,
my mom when we were growing up, she she used
to say that only adults could drink coffee. So I
grew up drinking hot chocolate, which I do want till
this time. And then I started just drinking coffee, maybe
(19:39):
a couple of months ago, because because they say it's
good for my stomach. So you know, I had.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
To trade my dad. Yeah, I mean every single night
my dad drinks hot chocolate's.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, well it's even worse. That's quite modern, I think, nice.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Quick, Well, it's just the same, the same favor.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
What about the chocolate of Mexico in Mohawka we went
when we were in Maha.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I'm not sure if you were not getting into this,
but my mom and my dad they had a great relationship,
but up to a point, after forty years and five kids,
there was something missing. No, so, so my my father
was very, very strict, but he every night he expected
hot chocolate, Mexican hot chocolate made by my mom, and
(20:33):
it had to be in a special way with foam
at the top. But if it was not at the
right temperature and with form at the top, my dad
horribly would push aside the hot chocolate and said it's
not right, and he wouldn't he wouldn't rinkt it. So
my mom, with a lot of discipline years, she did
(20:54):
it for almost forty years, and one night she said,
hard Head, that was his name, I'm not gonna make
that hot chocolate for you ever again. And then they split.
They split my dad left.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
And did you find someone else who could make me?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
She went to my grandma's house where she would do
the chocolate. Anyway, Eventually my dad came back, and my
mom kept on doing the hot chocolate until your dad
came back, and then she kept on doing the hot chocolate.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
The misconception I think about Mexican food because in the
United States, you know, which is that it was heavy.
There's a lot of food on the plate. You have
mixtures of tortillas and this and that, and beans and
rice and everything. And then I went to Mexico and
it's very light food. It was clean, it was pure,
it was a beautiful piece of fish that had been
(21:54):
cooked with you know, chili's or you know, something very
delicate and very thought out.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
It's very sophisticated.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
And even at the street food is as well. When
you're describing, you know, the tacos or the pritos of
what you're having, there's still is a clarity of taste.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I think, And right now, I'm sure you realize that
just a few months ago, there there's a take area,
a place for tacos that got a Michelin start for
the first time.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Where was that in Mexico City, in Mexico City, in Mexico.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
City, and then it used to be just a regular
place for tacos, and now has become there are lines
and lines and people wait for hours just to get it.
You're absolutely right. In Mexico. Mexico City has become a
place that you go just just to go to different restaurants,
and the food is see in crewdbly sophisticated. There's a
wonderful restaurant called It's Amazing by chef, and then you
(22:48):
go to Pujoel and then you realize that it is
that Mexican food has traveled very well.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I loved I don't know if you used to do that,
but hours that exited people in Mexico City. Eight. So
here you have you'd have break breakfast. What we did.
My friends and I would go out to breakfast a
place called Nido and we would go out at about
ten or eleven have breakfast. I'd go to the hospital.
Then we'd have breakfast, and then you'd have kind of
(23:18):
late late late lunch at about four. I'd sit there
till about six six thirty and then no dinner. And
I love that they'd have an apple or something a
piece of fruit.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
That's what they call. So there's a name for them.
It's called which is essentially, yeah, you your meal, but
then the aftermath, which is the beautiful part right where
you just you talk and you converse, and I think
that I always notice when I'm in Mexico if you
look around, no one's on their phones. Yeah, right, like truly,
And then I remember, like every time I land back
(23:49):
in the US and you're having a meal, like we're
all just connected. But that's that to me is also
my favorite part.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Go back to Mexicana as at as I can trying to.
When you're an immigrant, you're always looking for home, and
for me, home was where I grew up as a kid.
But did you leave I was twenty five.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah. It's interesting that you defined so much of your
being as an immigrant because you said I could have
been a soccer player, but I became an immigrant. Well,
there are soccer players who were immigrants and immigrants who
become soccer players, but you saw that as a no.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah, because as an immigrant. De beauty of it is
that I have two passports, the green one, the Mexican one,
and the blue one, and I choose to be either
Mexican or American. Whenever I go to Mexico City and
see the lines at the airport, so the shorter line,
I become a Mexican or American. So in the best
(24:50):
of times, I can be from both countries. But nowadays
it is very difficult. And sometimes when I'm in Mexico,
I'm told you betray the country. You left the so
you're not Mexican. And here in the United.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
States, I think who would say that, Well, even.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Some friends, even members of the family, who might think
that I did the wrong thing by leaving the country.
And then now that I'm in the United States, especially
in the last ten years, many people think that I
don't belong to this country and they tell you openly
not just go back to your country, go back to
your country. So that's why to be an immigrant is
(25:28):
my identity. And then and that that's something that you
really cannot cannot change. Maybe maybe it's the time. Maybe
if it was an over time it would be it
would be different, that you would feel welcome every word,
not anymore.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Do you feel do you feel that identity? No?
Speaker 3 (25:44):
I mean I sure I've gone through moments of identity crisis,
for sure, But I think I think that's the one
of the distinguishing factors between these generations, right, I think
the second third generation, I think we have understood, like
my brother and I have understood that we can hold
many different things at once and that and that that
(26:05):
in and of itself is American. No, that is that
is an American identity. I think I look at my parents' generation,
I look at other generations of other Latinos that are
way less privileged than we are, right, that have to
kind of like tiptoe around things, or have to assimilate,
or have to change their accents, or have to conform
to whatever they think means and looks American. And I
(26:27):
think we know the quote like younger generations. I think
we've understood that you can and should be proud and
I and I do sense that difference between us, right
Like I think I look at my parents, I look
at my grandparents, and I think there was a little
bit of that game, no, of trying to conform. And
at the same time, I think the yearning is real,
(26:47):
you know that this idea of even even thinking about
like where does one where does where does one spend
the last years of one's life? No, for my grandfather,
the dream was always to go back to Cuba. And
I think for you, Dad, for many years you've you
I at least played with the idea of going back
to Mexico one day, even exactly for for my mom,
(27:10):
I think she chose Spain because Cuba is too far
and so you know, a framing New York City is home. Yeah,
but I am you know, I'm always. I'm always. I've
fabricated this idea of what I think, where I think
I come from. And I think to my dad's point
of going to Mexico and not feeling Mexican enough being
(27:32):
here and not feeling American enough, I sometimes feel that,
you know.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I've been an immigrant for since I was nineteen, because
I went to England for six months and ended up
living there fifty years. And I think if you talk
to a lot of my grandchildren, that's daughters of my sons,
very often their identity will not be their country, it
will be their city. They will say I'm a Londoner
(27:56):
rather than I'm British. That even gets more extreme, you know,
they'll say I'm from Brooklyn, I'm not from Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
I feel that that's true.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Okay, And you know, people, and I think that identity
is so complicated now, so where we you know, what
we identify with as an American. I know that right
now when everybody says to me, you're so lucky, and
I feel, you know, to be out of America right now,
there's part of me that's never wanted to be there more.
(28:23):
You know, I think I should go back, I should fight,
I should oppose, we should you know what am I doing?
And you know? And then people who want to leave
as part of their identities because the politics are so
so wrong that they want to leave it.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
In the city where where I live, in Miami, it's
a city where you find millions of people fleeing from
other countries. So so it's a city full of immigrants
of foreigners, and that that the term is also your
your identity. I promise I won't get too much into
politiciz No. But now that that we have all these
(28:59):
conversations Venezuela and what happened with with Nicolas Maduro, there
are hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans in in Miami. They
were celebrating what happened, even though politicians are saying different things. Okay,
what's interesting is that Venezuelans right now talking about food,
they're saying they didn't come for the arepas. In other words,
(29:22):
the Americans didn't go to Venezuela for the arepas. The
APAs is what is theas is? Imagine a small thick tortilla, Yeah,
which is the natural food in in in in Venezuela.
So it's interesting that Venezuelans uh in the next we're
(29:43):
talking more than eight million people, they are defining the
political situation in food terms. In other words, the Americans
didn't come for for the food. The Americans didn't come
for the arepas, and and and nothing that is. That's
that phrase explains pretty much what's happening right now now that.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
This all makes me think of just because we keep
talking about immigration in politics, I feel like one of
the things that I think we're living through as a country,
or I think the breaking point that I see is
that all of these stories and all of us even
know this idea of coming to the US, immigrating to
the US. I think the breaking point now is that
everything is about reverse migration. Right like the trend now
(30:26):
is to no longer come north now, the trend now
is to no longer look at the US as this
like beacon of hope. The numbers and this is all
like numbers. Now, the numbers point to something that is
culminating into I think generation of immigrants that are leaving.
And I mentioned this because I think, perhaps, you know,
I think this country has debated for decades at this point,
(30:46):
like what is the value of an immigrant? And is
it economics? Is it whatever it is? Perhaps finally, you know,
when people keep leaving, keep leaving, with their cultures, with
their foods closing rest rounds, the food disappears, like maybe, right,
that is that is the way in which America starts
(31:07):
to truly understand now the value of immigrants. And imagine
it's because it's happening as we speak. You know, Venezuela
is happening all this, but but immigrants are leaving, and
with that food leaves as well.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
The numbers one point six million have self deported, self supported.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
So would you stay in the country where you exactly?
They don't want to be put on an airplane.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
And when parents leave in the morning to work, they
don't know if they're going to see their children again.
There's a song in Mexico, I promise not to sing
for a couple.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Of butt you've been listening to the I didn't have
to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I did that. I did my homework. But but there's
a song in Mexico called e bolbeert Bolbert Bolbert, which
means and go back, go back, go back to your
arms again. That's that's what many many Mexicans are singing
right now, are actually acting upon going back to the country.
(32:03):
And then maybe that's it. That's a dream of every
immigrant to be able to go back to your country authority.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Well maybe, well, well, as I said, I still my
family is there, my children are there, my work is there,
my husband's architecture. But I do feel, you know, except
for Las Vegas, which is a little bit of a part.
We haven't told everyone listening that we actually actually this
(32:30):
is coming live from Las Vegas, which is another world,
isn't it. And I actually I thought a little bit
about Francis when I came here, because do you remember
those scenes in The Godfather. It's the very beginning of
Las Vegas and how this all you know, came out.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
We're also in a huge political hub, and I mean
this has been a battleground city and state, and there
is a the Mexican spot that every candidate stops by.
So maybe that's another right to try you.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
You kept I know, you worked for Hillary Clinton and
Obama and Biden.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I did, yeah, and then I left police.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
And then who was the best it was? Where was
the best food?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Which the best food?
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Clinton?
Speaker 3 (33:14):
The best food? I with?
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Did you eat in the White House?
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Did I know? I did eat at the White I
did the West Wing. But I gained weight at the
White House, I for sure, Yeah, because I mean you
just sat there for like twelve hours of the day.
But also that's where people understood how bad my my
coffee making skills were. Because the beginning of my of
my adventure at the White House, I was like twenty
(33:41):
two years old. I was working in the Obama administration.
So I was an assistant. I was an assistant to
doctor Biden when she was a second Lady, and and
oftentimes fifty percent of my job was to make coffee.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
Today.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Very bad.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah, you gotta keep it.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
No, No, I've asked. I interviewed for people who worked
in the White House, and I always ask you know,
what was what did you eat? What did you eat?
Did you eat in downstairs in the mess now that.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
I'm remembering and remembering when I was working for the
Bidens during the first Obama administration, we spend a lot
of time in nave ops now the Naval Observatory, which
is where Vice President Biden and Doctor Biden would live.
And the parties that they would throw right like the
Christmas parties Thanksgiving. The food was very good, very very
good people. I mean, yes, people would go for them,
(34:37):
but the food was always a plus.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
I remember that, are you talking about the White House
before the State of the Union? Presidents they have the
the tradition is that journalists go to eat with the
president before the State of the Union. And I went
a couple of times with President Obama and I was
always surprised that he didn't eat. Yeah, everybody would eating
(35:01):
just like a salad, not not really right food, but
he wouldn't need it at all at all.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
What is your work now? What are you working on?
Speaker 3 (35:14):
So after the twenty sixteen campaign, I left politics, and
I loved because I think I obviously probably influenced by
a father as a journalist. My mom is a journalist,
my grandfather was a journalist, and so I think inevitably,
inevitably I was going to end up being as crazy
as them. And so I think being inside of politics,
(35:36):
particularly that campaign where so much of my job was Clinton.
The Clinton campaign. Yeah, so much of my job in
that campaign was was around understanding the Latino vote. And
John Podesto was there, and so we thought we knew right,
We thought that we understood the numbers, and every number
(35:56):
was pointing to this idea that in the face of
someone like Donald Trump, that Latinos would kind of rise
in these unprecedented numbers and that it would be this
historic wave against Donald Trump. And that didn't happen. So
I think in that moment, which you dad, my dad
that was outside and reporting, and he would call me
when I was in the Clinton headquarters and he would say,
(36:19):
you know, you guys aren't seeing what we're seeing on
the ground right. What we're seeing on the ground is
a country that is about to favor Trump and me
from inside the political bubble, I wouldn't believe him. So
I think that that moment for me was was kind
of what pushed me out of politics and drove me
into journalism. And for the past, you know, since twenty
sixteen until now, I've I've been deep in it. I've
(36:39):
spent many years with with Vice News, doing documentaries and
traveling the world, making my parents very very worried, very worried,
and I do you know, I'm a contributor with MSNBC,
and then so I'm I'm deep in it and it
feels right.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Tell us about the podcast. Tell us how it started,
because you're, as you said, you're new on the blog
and this is anything. Tell us everything about it.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Well, it started simply because Apalla grew up as a
teenager in another country, and this was an incredible opportunity
for us to work together this year.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
In particular there, I think people feel very overwhelmed with
the news. I think there's a tendency to want to
kind of tune out. And more than anything, I think
everyone can say that people are trying to make sense
of what's happening, yeah, and doing it with nuance. I
think both of us come obviously from a world of
mainstream media, and I think the podcast gives us something
(37:38):
that I think we've never experienced in our life in journalism,
which is the privilege of time, the privilege of having
one hour with one guest to truly break down some
of the most complicated issues and do it with nuance
and with care and to I think for me one
of the best part is to suddenly see a different
part of someone that you thought you knew, or a
different part of the news, and you can only truly
(38:01):
do that through this platform.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Right.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
I think we've spent so many years talking in soundbites,
responding to news, doing breaking news, and so to have this,
I think our hope is that that we simply allow
people to have a better understanding and to trust, which
I think trust is being lost now there's the era
of trusting news is almost gone.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
For forty years, I was doing five minute interviews and
then of course you started five minutes. That was at
the most. I was doing a newscast for thirty eight years.
So this is the first opportunity that I have to
tell what I to the people, how I feel, and
to put it in perspective, not just report the news.
I was not supposed and I never did give my opinion,
(38:48):
but now it's a wonderful opportunity. And then just to
make sense of what's happening. And especially for Latinos, we're underrepresented.
There are about sixty five million Latinos right now. Percent
of the population, and we.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Say that there are how many Latinas.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Sixty five million, sixty living in the United States, So
one in five people in the United States. Twenty percent
of the population is Latino. But you see you turn
on the TV, you go to the movies, go to
city hall, talk to politicians, political parties, and we're not there.
You don't see us. We're invisible. No, that twenty percent
(39:27):
doesn't appear anywhere. And I think part of what we
are doing with the podcast is making sure that we
are seeing that we're not invisible, that we're part of
this country, that that people know that we're not criminals
and rapists and terrorists, that we are part of the country.
I think Venezuela's going to stay with us for a
while and then at the end of the year is
(39:47):
going to be the midterm elections and how Trump is
changing the world.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Have you met him? You got the yeah, because you
couldn't say it's well, he knew I were You said,
excuse me.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Exactly, and he wanted me just to wait for him
to give me to the authorization to speak. As a journalist,
you don't do that. There's a space you ask a question,
and that's it. So I was ejected by a body
by his bodyguard, and then we said, this is dangerous,
this is against the fremeral of the press. Nobody pays
(40:24):
nobody pays attention to us. I think we were right.
This is not a time to be silent. If you
want to be silent, don't be a journalist. I think
part of our responsibility is to question and challenge those
who are in power. And if we don't do that,
then we're not doing our jobs as journalists. Part of
the problem with we trust and what people are not
(40:47):
trusting journalist is because we're not doing our job. And
our job mainly is of course reporting the reality as
it is, but to questions those war in power.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Oh, that's what we need you and thank you for
taking the time. One last question, which is that we
ask everybody a question, both of you to answer each
of you. The food is staying hunger, you know, it's
food is a way of sharing. Food is a way
of expressing love and welcoming your home and welcoming you
back to the country. It's also comfort and so my
(41:19):
last question to each of you is if you reach
for food for comfort, what food would that be?
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Yeah, it's easy for me. I mean when I'm always
looking for the best tacos, tacos pastor and because he'll
bring me back to my childhood and will bring me
back to the country that I left. So I'm looking
for the not for the best tacos, but the same
flavor that I had when I was when I was
(41:48):
a kid.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Yeah, and for me, I think of, tell us what
that is black beans? My grandma's black beans.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Yeah, idea.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
It is, but that but that's that's my my Cuban grandmother's,
like the the one recipe that she still stands by
that she learned from her mother in Cuba, from her
great grandmother who was Lebanese and ended up in Cuba.
And it's these these black beans that she does with
like so much care and love. And yes it's the taste,
(42:27):
but it's the smell of of like of venturing that
house on Miami. That's the same smell that I feel
when I enter the house in Madrid. And so that consistency,
I think of a family that has lived everywhere. I
love that. That's the beans. I don't even know if
you like.
Speaker 6 (42:50):
Ruthie's Table for was produced by Alex Bell, Robbie Hamilton,
Natalie Kane and Zad Rogers with Susanna His Robbie Hamilton,
Andrew Sang, Alex Baby Dan, Naranjo Rodriguez and Bella Selini.
This has been an atomized production for iHeartMedia.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Ruthie's Table four is proud to support Leukemia UK. Their
Cartwheel for a Cure campaign raises funds for vital research
and more effective and kinder treatments.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
For a cute my Lloyd Leukemia.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Please donate and to do so search Cartwheel for a Cure.
Ruthie's Table four presented by Sky
Host
Ruth Rogers
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