April 27, 2026 • 47 mins
In this powerful live episode of Sacred Lessons, host Mike de la Rocha convenes a critical conversation at the UCLA Chicano Studies Research Center with Barbara Kappos and Jerry Tello on sexual violence and the urgent need for accountability, healing, and community transformation. As the first in a series confronting violence against women and children, this episode moves beyond awareness to examine the difficult truth that much of this harm happens within families and is sustained by silence and shame. Drawing from decades of frontline experience, Barbara and Jerry explore how we support survivors, challenge harmful patterns of masculinity, and create pathways toward repair.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This episode discusses rape and sexual violence. If you or
someone you know requires support, please call the East Los
Angeles Woman's Centers twenty four to seven by lingual hotline
at eight hundred five eight five six two three one.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
What are the cycles fathers passed down that suns they're
left to yield? What if being a man was holding
it all together and learning how.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
To let go?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
This is a space where to find the power to
heal and transform. I'm Mike Dela Rocha. Welcome to Sacred Lessons.
Some conversations are uncomfortable, the sacred ones are necessary. Welcome
to Sacred Lessons on Mike Dela Rocha in today's episode
(00:48):
is Different. We're gathered here at the UCLA Chicano Studies
Research Center for a live taping of Sacred Lessons, bringing
together community leaders, practitioners, and organizers for a conversation that
it's difficult yet urgent. This is the first in a
series of episodes that we're doing to talk honestly and
openly about sexual violence, violence against women, and violence against children.
(01:13):
Over the years, awareness has grown, movements have created space
for survivors to speak their truth, and yet this violence
persists in our homes and in our communities. Today is
not just about awareness. It's about deep listening, shared accountability,
and asking the question what does it actually mean to
(01:34):
repair harm. It's about dressing one of the hardest truths
we have to face. Much of this violence doesn't happen
in the shadows of strangers. It happens in the silence
of our own families, and shame has been one of
the most powerful forces keeping that silence in place. Because
(01:55):
if we are being honest, this issue is not separate
from us, if we're telling the truth, it lives within
the ways we have been taught to understand power, gender,
and masculinity.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So today we hold.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Space for a conversation rooted in dignity, responsibility, and healing.
Not to shame, not to judge, but to move forward
with clarity, courage, and community. So thank you both for
being here. I'll just quickly contextualize for those listening. I
(02:31):
am sitting with two gems of the Latino and Chicano community.
Barbara Coppos is the executive director of the East La
Women Center, who is celebrating fifty years this year of
doing incredible work down the street from where my father,
my family immigrated in bot Heights and my estra Jerry Theo,
(02:53):
one of the architects of the National Composities Network that
has really centered healing with families, in particular young boys
and men, and who I've been blessed to participate in
a lot of.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
The work that they do.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And before we even start, I just wanted to look
you both in the eye and just say I'm blessed
to be here.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
There may be.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Tears that come, but I just want you to know
they come from a place of me wanting to be
a better person and a better father and a partner.
But also because I have a lot of relatives in
my immediate family that are on both sides of this
issue have committed harm and have been harmed themselves, and
sometimes it's one of the same. And I just am
very blessed. I know there's a lot of emotions here,
(03:41):
but I wanted you guys to know how grateful I
am that you are here. I wanted to start with you, Barbara,
just because the work that the East LA Women's Center does.
You know this has been in the news obviously, most
recently with what is transpired in the revelation with Sessa
(04:01):
delortus in so many but from your perspective, what is
it that we're not fully grasping or understanding about this
issue of sexual violence in our community right now?
Speaker 5 (04:14):
Well, before I start, I really want to thank you
for giving this space to discuss this. One of the
things that happens always is when these type of high
profile occurrences happen, it's in the media, we talk about it,
and then we move on. And that's, you know, something
(04:35):
that we at East Los Angeles Women Center cannot do.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
We don't move on.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
And it's not only about high profile cases, is about
everyday life. So I thank you for giving us this
opportunity to really, you know, move from awareness to meaningful change.
And then I want to really express my deep appreciation
to Jerry Tayl the privilege of knowing for thirty years
(05:03):
and I know that dates us here, but it is
what it is. Over the year. Over the years, our
collaboration both at the East Los Angeles Women's Center and
a previous agency has been grounded in a shared community
where we built inclusive programs that supported teen fathers, youth development,
(05:25):
fatherhood engagement, and most recently, restorative practices. So just Jerry
thank you for your leadership and your vision and you're
centering around healing for the communities we both serve. Just
a little bit about the East Los Angeles Women's Center. Yes,
we are celebrating fifty years and this agency started from
(05:48):
Latino women in the community who wanted to build a
rape hotline that would be bilingual. And you know, they
started out with, you know, just grassroots approach, and you know,
since then, of course we've evolved. I'm sorry, we've evolved,
and you know, we have an array of services providing
(06:10):
services for sexual assault survivors, domestic violence, HIV, and housing programs.
Your question was, how do we support survivors right and
fully understand sexual violence in our communities.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I'm sorry, time, okay.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Number one, sexual violence is more common than people want
to believe, and it is deeply under reported. Most survivors
never disclose. They keep silent because of fear, immigration concerns,
economic dependence, stigma, and the mistrust of systems. So those
(06:59):
statistics are not true the ones we hear right, Survivors
often know the person who harmed them, and you just
mentioned that, and usually it is a family member, Usually
it is it can be their own father, stepfather, an uncle.
And you know, the difficulty about that is that we
(07:21):
have survivors enter our center every day with this story.
And I just wanted to share briefly about this one
woman that I worked with for one year. She was
assaulted by her father from a young age all the
way to adulthood, and her mother would participate by locking
(07:43):
her in the garage and this would go on for years.
So when she came to the center, she expressed to
me that what had happened to her, she really never
spoke about it, and she felt such shame. But she
also had difficulty leaving her family, even though you know,
(08:04):
anyone would think, well, you know, why would you ever
want to be a part of a family that harmed
you in this way, But that was her grief and
her her journey was to try to remove herself and
become whole, even though that was for her, the most
difficult thing to do is to leave her family. So,
(08:27):
you know, I think that's where survivors are misunderstood. They
don't understand the grief and the trauma that individuals are
faced with. And every story is different, every journey is different.
Trauma is not always visible, and it doesn't follow a timeline.
There is no right way to respond to trauma. Survivors
(08:51):
may seem strong, they may feel like they can continue
with life at a normal pace. Helene is not linear.
It can take years, and it can resurface at different
life stages. Often we hear the word trigger. Someone was triggered,
even though they may have experienced sexual violence a long
(09:12):
time ago, but something happens a storyline, they're watching a movie.
We get these calls on our hotline all the time,
someone who had experienced trauma twenty years ago and something
triggered them. So there's no way, there's no one way
to describe trauma. Culture, silence, and stigma are powerful barriers
(09:36):
in many of our communities. They are deeply rooted beliefs
about family unity, gender roles, and shame. Survivors are often
told directly and indirectly stay quiet to protect the family
or to avoid bringing attention. That silence can be harmful
as the violence itself. And I think most of us
(10:00):
understand the family dynamics. If something happens in that home,
we all many times are told to be silent, but
it's so harmful. And again, you know, building awareness is
one thing, but to really make a change about how
culturally of how we need to embrace this type of
(10:21):
you know, trauma and families. The impact goes beyond the individual.
It affects entire families. Children who witness and experience violence
carry that trauma. It shapes relationships, parenting, health, and long
term well being. Without intervention, cycles of violence can continue
across generations. And I'm sure Jerry will talk about this,
(10:45):
but one of the reasons we are now providing an
approach that is restorative is because children in our center
who we were treating, would say to us, I want
to know my father, like to know my father, even
though that individual cost harm to the family, But they
(11:06):
would express how they listened to the fighting, or they
listened to any type of physical harm that happened in
the home and how it impacted them. And many times
the parents didn't realize what was going on with the children,
but they wanted to know both both parents. So, you know,
(11:26):
one thing I have to say as an administrator of
my organization, most funding is only directed at the survivor
or the victim, and children are not included in these programs.
And so how are we going to end generational trauma
if we don't treat also the children. So one of
the things we do at the agency is that we
(11:48):
have services that provide support for the entire family. We
have a nurturing program, which is a parenting program that
serves the entire family, and then therapeutic services that provide
that type of you know, work with the family and children.
And then if and dumbddies will later in your segment,
(12:10):
we'll talk about possibly then they may be able to
come together in a dialogue and begin to heal as
a family. That's the most ideal situation. But if not,
then at least that child's able to process what they
were feeling and be able to you know, create their
own healing. Healing is possible.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
I was gonna say so just just to be clear
that you s l a woman's center than make if
possible works with the entire family, if all folks are
willing to go through that process.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
Right, it's always survivor centered. This is if the survivor
wants to move in that direction, then we will look
at if it's a safe situation, if they're prepared to
come together, that's you know a little bit. It's a
very long process, but it's definitely one that we embrace
at our organization. So I believe healing is possible, but
(13:07):
it requires sustained, compassionate support. When survivors are met with belief, dignity,
and access to the right resources, they can heal, or
we can. We hope they can heal, right, but not
by going back to who they were, but by rebuilding
their own terms. And you know, we see this all
(13:31):
the time at the agency, through our housing programs. Many
of the women who come to especially our emergency shelter
or the transitional house, you know they have come from
other you know, countries, from Mexico, Watemala, you know, different countries.
They had a difficult journey coming here and then they
come here and they again experienced trauma. But you know,
(13:54):
with time and with the resources and with the support,
you see this evolvement in these in these individuals and
and their children. And you know it's unfortunate right now
under this administration that you know, they're cutting funds on
these types of programs, but you know we will continue
to be next to them and to support their journey
(14:17):
of healing. So I don't know if I gave you
the exact what a survivor you know everybody again, everybody's
journey is different, but you know the support and the
you know, being with someone that you don't judge and
that you believe them is enough some times to allow
that person to move forward.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Thank you, Jerry with a lot A lot was shared
and uh, I know you've you continue to do a
lot of work with with men and boys, no given given.
What was shared about believing and uh being there for survivors?
(15:02):
What role is for us men who are listening? What
role do we playing in your fifty years of the
patterns you've seen?
Speaker 4 (15:11):
What? What? What? What?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
What is percolating in your heart?
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Well? Thank you, Thank you Mike, and thank you Barbara.
You know, uh just that's an honor to continue walking
with you and attempting to heal our community. I want
to thank creator the ancestors that came before that never
(15:38):
got a chance to heal. We know our stories, we
are our history, we know what's going on with our people.
And there's so many of our ancestors and never got
a chance to heal. And what I've learned, you know,
sometimes I cry and the tears just come out. What
(15:58):
I've been taught is sometimes those tears aren't my tears
tell a story about my mama. My mama's tears tell
a story about my daddy. Is my daddy's tears. And
I never got a chance that way. But you know,
when you talk about the role of men, you know,
I grew up in a you know, family, Mexicano native family,
(16:18):
but I grew up in Compton, you know, and a
lot of us living there in that house and parents
who worked very hard. Family worked very hardly with Alita.
You know, I grew up very strong women, by the way.
You know, when I took a Mexican American studies class,
they said, you know, Latino women are humble and subservient,
and I'm saying, well, shit, where are they at? You know,
because I didn't grow up with those kind of women.
(16:40):
I grew up a very strong grandma, mothers. You know,
my sister would kick my brothers. I mean, I just
grew up with very strong women. But you know, we
grew up in a household too that that we lived
in an environment, and you know, and I think this
is interconnected, you know, because you know, my body is
feeling a lot of things recently because we lived across
(17:01):
street from an elementary school and sometimes playing on that
school yard. You know when your friends who go to
the fence and they go to the fence and you
can see what they're going to the fence and somebody's crying,
and they're crying because the amiga or the police are
picking up on their relatives, right, and that your your
friend is crying, and so you go and hug your friend.
And but then the bell rings and you got to
go inside and put those feelings away. And you know,
(17:23):
and and and I say that because you know, we
talk about shame, but it's really about fear, and it's
really about the patriarchy, and it's really about the system
that a lot of our families that would think about
saying something are not going to say something, and are
not going to say nothing because you're gonna come take
my kids away from me. You're going to come and
and separate us. You're gonna where are you gonna put them?
(17:44):
Put them that foster care, You're gonn put them over there.
And and there's a whole history of our children being
taken away from us. So it's a it's a larger
issue of just shame. It's a larger issue of the system.
Really blaming victims and blaming families and really not wanting
to heal us, but incarcerating or deporting or it's a
larger issue. And I remember as a little kid. You know,
(18:05):
it's interesting because you know, as I think back all
these years, how did I how did I get on
this road? You know. You know, in families, you know,
we have parties and parties and people drinking, you know,
and I was assigned. You know, I might say with
usmana take care of your sister and your niece. So
so I as a little boy, you know, and men
(18:26):
would be drinking there. And you know, if we go
to bed now, and we go to bed, and I
remember laying in bed with my hand and my sister
and I'm my niece, you know, because the men would
have to come to that room to go to the bathroom,
and someone were drunk, and so we're falling, and so
you know you're not going to touch them, you know,
And and so I didn't sleep. I used to stay
awake and make sure my sister my niece are okay,
(18:49):
you know. And so the the consciousness, you know, it's
interesting how ancestors send you to do something. They started
really early with me, think, pay attention, pay attention to this, right,
and and you know, and and and you don't think
nothing of it. You just think, okay, well, you know,
but I was put in that role early on, early on,
you know, I was I was the one that the
(19:12):
girls would they like to be my friend. You know,
you're good to talk to. You know, I want to
be your brother, and I want to be your brother,
want date tube, but they want to be my brother.
You know. I was the one that the girls had
talked to, right, And I didn't understand they.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Were teaching me.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
The girls were teaching me how to listen, how to
be present, how to pay attention. Right. So this this journey,
you know, I started with women teaching me, with the
girls teaching me. My mama, my grandma teaching me, right,
and and you know, and then you you grow up
(19:48):
to try and have a profession, and and you know,
sometimes the work chooses you, you know. And and by
the way, I was with the first male to work
with was then the Estellar Rip. I was the first
male hired. And because I was seeing as a therapist
a lot of men being reported and their men that
(20:11):
looked like me. Look at my dad looked at my
theos you know, reported for domestic violence or sexual assault
or whatever, and it really, you know, it bothered me.
It was time that Chicano movement, we're very proud of
being Chicanos and all that, they had a lot of
cultural pride, but there was this other side of the saying, damn,
why are we hurting each other? Why are we treating
(20:31):
the women like that? Why are we were'ting the kids?
And it just you know, kind of tore me apart.
And I was trying to find these answers, and so,
you know, I began working there and this is back
you know, in the late eighties early nineties that we
began a program called Una Familia One Asana. We developed
a number of artists, a theater piece on sexual abuse
(20:53):
in Mexicano families, right, and we traveled across the country
doing tiatro and you know, trying to create awareness. But
nobody wants to fund that, nobody wants to invest in that,
especially in our Communit it's your community, that's what you
guys do. So we tried to do awareness, We tried
(21:14):
to do create you know, and it was amazing because
you know, if you're going to talk to familias about
sexual abuse. They're not going to come, but it's amazing
if you do it. Tiatro and all these people in
the audience. And then we got a line of women
going to talk to to Raquel who was the victim,
and they all line up to talk to her, you know.
(21:35):
And where do we go? We were from to then
theasreg plot linement, you know, and so the journey has
been a long journey. But I knew that we had
to do something as men, right and and so I
called men together because all they were doing with the
men they would either deport us or incarcerators. It wasn't
(21:56):
about healing, and it is about incarceration. You get incarcerated,
do your time, You come out and you got the
same wounds. It's not like anybody got heal and you
go back to the family, or you go back to
the community, or you go back to another relationship. So
we haven't really solved anything. We incarcerated somebody, maybe you know,
created accountability and so safety for a little while, but
(22:16):
in terms of the larger picture, people are still involved,
you know. So you know, I called to the number
of men that work in the community and to come
and see if we could develop programs. You know what
happened in that retiro it was back in eighty eight,
is we came together and you know, we have this
medicine on that road, and you like that, Gopal, and
(22:38):
ask the answers to come in. Be careful when you
ask the answers to come in, because they'll give you truth.
And we did it on a cimiento. And the second
brother in shared, I won't help my community. But then
he says, but I'm losing my family. I don't know
how to love my family. I don't know how to
love my kids. I don't know how to love and
he begins crying. And back in eighty eight, you know,
(23:00):
we didn't. We didn't seem men normally cry. I mean,
we did wander like we were tore up or something,
or we pretend it's our sinus is you know, you know,
but we didn't straight up cry. And this brother straight
up cried in front of us. Nineteen. I was like, well,
what's going on here? We supposed to be developing programs,
you know, And then he says, I'm musa share something deeper.
He says, I know why? He says I was sexual
(23:22):
abuse the kid, and then he begins to really cry,
like spirit cry, like we can't top cry. And when
he began crying like that, all of us are crying
because what it touched in us is all the wounds
that we had never dealt with, you know, all the
trauma that we had never talked about. And when we
(23:43):
realized back then, almost forty years ago, before we go
out and try and help somebody else, you better heal
this stuff. We start talking honestly and realize, you know what,
we got some shit to deal with. We got some patriarchy,
some misogyny, we got some stuff that you know, we're
living out that we say we want to step chickinto
power and all that stuff. Well, how about how we
treat our family. How about how we treat our companier,
(24:05):
how about how we treat our children, how about how
we treat each other? And we went on a journey,
you know, to try and address those things. You know,
been on that journey a long time, Mike.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
But in this journey, you know, there was a recent
piece that came out. I don't know if folks saw it.
I was sharing with you earlier CNN around this website.
You were doing this investigation, and it was a website
that was teaching men how to rape women, and sixty
(24:43):
two million people visited this site in February alone. It's
a global site, but the majority of people going to
this website from the United States. Men for the United States.
They were teaching them though, how to drug their wives.
And so when I hear this, this is the tension
I'm having. Is when I'm sitting in a circle of
(25:03):
elders and we're talking about these conditions that exist to
fifty years that still exist. Now, I guess that is
the question, do you see them still existing? Because now
I'm very clear with my young son, who just turned thirteen,
I'm fighting against an algorithm that I can't win, and
so I'm trying to figure out how to pour into
(25:25):
them a more healthier way to interact. And obviously it's
my partner and I doing this. But this is where
this issue.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
You know, we.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Mentioned shame, We also mentioned silence, and then you mentioned fear,
and all three of them are bed buddies, and given
that reality, how do we navigate that as family members?
I'm not even putting gender on this, but as family members.
When you mentioned you holding your you know, and so
many of our families. You know what theo not to
(25:55):
go near when they're drinking at a party. You also
know when family member goes on vacation, at least in
my family, we call it vacation when they go to prison,
and it's because they harm somebody and so, but those
are realities that are in our families and we don't
talk about it. So this is part of the unearth
in that. But what advice or what do you give
(26:16):
to someone saying, yeah, I can relate to everything that
the two of you said, or I can relate to
what you said, Mike, And what do I do?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Where do I go? How do I become a better person?
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Well, let me let me just because you know, I
think I think it is we have to acknowledge that
the woundedness and the harm, and the patriarch and all
the missages, all of that is in our families. Right.
The wound is there, The sexualization of especially women is there,
(26:48):
The disrespect, the hierarchy of that, all of that is there.
It exists, and we got to deal with it straight up, right.
But it's but what you mentioned, it's it's a global issue.
This issue is is huge and it's a lot larger
than any of us want to even recognize. And there's
a whole world and society and government out there that
(27:10):
is turning a blind eye to this, right, So I
just want to mention that as the global issue, but
not to skirt what we need to do, right, because
I think we need to take responsibility among ourselves, you know,
and speaking as a man, I need to take responsibility,
and I need to make sure you you're taking responsibility
and you're taking I mean, it's part of our collective responsibility.
(27:32):
But it's it's it's a major issue, and it's you know,
and and again there's variations of this as well, because
you know, the sexual abuse of children is is one thing,
and that's you know, when we're talking about sexual violence,
that's a spiritual issue. That's a breaking of spirits, right,
That's that you know, your spirit just just lodges. It's
(27:52):
that susto that you know, you it it's hard to
to you know, to men from you. Right. So so
that's that's a very significant issue that we need to
talk about. But how do we heal from that because
you know, that's also the woundedness that we all carry
is very significant. In our communities. And I think so
(28:14):
there's various levels of how we need to address it.
First level heating is acknowledgment. Let's acknowledge the truth and
acknowledge the gotta gis acknowledge the wound that we carry
amongst each other. Let's have these conversations. Let's create accountability.
But then we need to create also a path for healing.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Barbara with the last point that Jerry just said, how
do we create a healthy accountability and a pathway for
healing in the line of work that you've been involved
in or obviously I know it's possible because you both
are sitting here, but for those that probably don't know,
like like hey, once someone commits harm, it's a hard
(28:55):
stop get out. And I had this conversation at the
coffee at the Beat of Coffee yesterday with two men
that already serve time in prison. And when we talk
about child sexual assault or assaulting a woman, there's certain
boundaries that then they're like dead to us. And I
know from a cultural standpoint, like that's a slippery slope
(29:16):
once you start going down there. And so I wonder
from your experience, how do we hold the and.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Both well one thing we have to teach our children empathy, kindness,
and love, and you know, it's unfortunate that sometimes that
doesn't happen. I had experience with my son. I've raised
three kids, and he was telling me, Mom, I was
at this party when he was in college, and this
(29:42):
lady came next to his young girl and she was drunk,
and she put her head on my shoulder and I
sat there and I just, you know, helped her move
to the side and I made sure she got home.
And I wanted to cry because I said, Okay, if
I haven't done anything else, that's you know, I feel
like I've accomplished, you know, And I raised, you know,
(30:06):
a young man that has respect for women, and you know,
I think that's really important that we remember that these
young boys need that guidance they need, and we need
to be honest with them. You know, we hide everything,
and they're seeing everything anyway, and so we're blind to that.
I was raised by a single mom who worked hard
(30:29):
by herself in this world, and I remember her coming home.
She was a waitress and she would tell me how
you know, her boss would touch her and she'd come
home and you know, she would cry and she let
me know that, and in a way, I think that
made me who I am today because I wasn't you know,
(30:50):
she didn't shield me from that, not that she wanted
to hurt me, but she was being honest with me,
and she wanted me to know how to protect myself.
And you know that I wanted. I know you were
going to ask a question about accountability, so I'm jumping ahead,
but you know one of the things. And you know,
I'm so humbled and fortunate to work with amazing women
(31:14):
at our center and with promo TOAs women in the
community who reach out and just support women in the
community that would never come forward if it wasn't for
that promo. Doda and a few years back, maybe some
of you know you may have heard about the janitorial movement,
and we were part of that, and Lilia Garcia who's
(31:37):
now the Labor Commissioner, and my dear friend was the
executive director of MCTF, and SEIU and valor Us and
all of us came together because we found out from
janitors that they would be raped or sexually harassed at
(31:58):
their job site and they were silent. They couldn't say
anything because of immigration issues. And because of maybe losing
their job, right, And it reminded me of my mother
that would go to work and would stay silent because
she had to have that job to raise us, right.
But one thing that went further, they had our backing,
(32:19):
you know. And so once that came out and there
was a documentary that's really rape on the on the
Night Shift. It's really, you know, an amazing documentary that
talked about how these ladies struggled and mainly you know,
immigrant women. They came together and we came together and
(32:39):
we you know, really mobilized and through the Yabasta project campaign,
they mobilized other women and you know, there's a movement
now and one of our collectives, one of our promo
daughter Calypses are industry women who go out to the
(33:00):
those sites and help them and build awareness, but not
just awareness like what can you do to protect yourselves?
But one of the things about accountability that we need
to remember is we need institutional accountability. It's not enough
for just that individual to be accountable for their harm,
but policies and systems play into harm.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Right.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
So it's one thing to help our children understand, you know,
their role in this life but it's also our role
to help change those institutions.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
And when you're talking institutions in particular, you're talking government education.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
With all of them.
Speaker 5 (33:38):
Yeah, And you know, just like the janitorial we had
to go to the unions, we had to go to
the big corporations where at the end of the day
what happened is now all of there and some of them,
not all of them, but some of the corporations. They
do have to have these trainings, and the trainings are
done by promotodas, so it's directly from people who have
(34:02):
experienced this harm. And so these are the things that
we need to keep moving towards, you know, changing all
industries so that type of harm is never never accepted.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
You know, with it Like you know, I think, you know,
what is the role of men in that, because you know,
we're in in the janitorial roles of watching this right,
we're in the fields working with the mourets, We're in
different places where we see this going on, right, And
and our role really needs to be stepping up and
standing up and speaking of right. I mean, we need
(34:36):
to really have a role. And I understand, you know,
because you know, my parents sometimes worked in jobs that
were very disrespectful or harming to them. But the reality
is that that, you know, the honoring of relationships and
the is primary, right. I you know, I've learned from
(34:57):
Mayouelita get throw us at baga. You do something good,
it's gonna cut. You're gonna be okay, right and many
times again because of the fear. And I understand the
necessity to work, and so you don't want to step
up because you're gonna get fired. But you know, the
reality is your dignity, your identity is primary. And to
you know, I mean, I would you know, I always
(35:19):
talk about I was just doing the presentation in Sacramento
this morning, and I'm saying, you know, I teach anger
management and peaceful stuff, but if somebody walk in that
room want to mess with it, I'm stepping up, you know.
I mean, you got to step up. And sometimes you
got to step up, and yes, it's going to cost
you something, but that's our role. Our role has to
be truth. Our role has to be you know, stepping
(35:40):
into the responsibility of taking care of one another. Right,
and we as men, because we are part of the
issue that creates this, we have to step in harder
and further to this issue, you know, because in order
to balance out, you know, the harm that does exist.
But we're we're there too in our has to be
(36:01):
a step up, speak up, and stand.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Up, Barbara.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Just, I know we're getting close to time, just in
terms of I'm trying to decognize my own capitalistic mind
right now wanting answers, you know, And I know this
is a process, and we're starting a number of conversations,
and what I'm really hearing is like the acknowledgment is
the first and foremost, but we can't separate our own
(36:33):
individual actions to the larger systemic structural things.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
We have to do the and both.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
We've got to.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Transform systems that operate off of control and domination and
separation and division and all that while taking a deep
look within us. One thing that I'm very clear on
is I can't do this work alone. That I have
to do it alongside a community of folks. And I
do know for those that are listening or watching that
(36:58):
you all both are part of amazing communities, those in
in in East Los Angeles and those across the country
through the Compositis network. And so just in terms of
final closing or thoughts that you would have to share. Barbara,
I'll start with you just last you know, what's what's
what's coming out that you want to share, just for
(37:20):
those that are new to your work, but also just
new to this work in general.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
Okay. You know, most important is that a survivor is
always believed, and that we don't cause further harm, and
that we understand that individuals that are going through this
have their own process. You know, in this society there's
(37:48):
a stages of grief, right and we're supposed to fit
that go through these stages, but really grief is ongoing.
You know, there's you lose someone and you don't have
a certain amount of time that you forget about them.
They live within you. And the same thing happens with
trauma and survivors. You know, they may be doing well
(38:11):
and then all of a sudden something happens in their
life and we need to be there for them. You know,
I speak more on you know. I do appreciate though
that our work has merged with the National Compilers Network,
with the men that we see, because I truly believe
(38:33):
we can't do this alone, you know, women alone. We
need to have that alliance, and we need to continue
to strengthen that for the sake of our children, for
the sake of our communities. This is a very difficult
time in this world. I mean, people are dying every
day in wars and you know, suffering is happening, and
(38:55):
this is when we really need to stand up. And
you know, as I said earlier, we have to teach empathy, respect,
dignity for all, and sometimes we get lost in it,
especially when we have this type of leadership in place.
But you know, with looking at the students here and
(39:16):
young people, this is what we have to do, is
to continue to strengthen our communities. And I just want
to say one plug. We have promottas at our agency
and I love them dearly because these are women, most
of them survivors, that go into the community and reach
out to individuals that usually would not come forward. And
(39:41):
I really truly believe the community itself can heal itself.
So that's my message.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Thank you. Well. First of all, I want to think
the more it is, you know, I remember again when
I was deep in this work a number of years ago,
when I started with eas Still Hotline and there was
(40:11):
a conference in downtown La at the Hilton and I
went there and there was three hundred women there and
me and they kicked me out. There's a man in here,
you know. And they kicked me out right. And it
was the Chicano and African American women that says, no,
we need it. There's a black and brown women that says, no,
(40:34):
you can't kick her men out. We need them, you know.
So I first want to thank the women that, in
spite of our struggles, in spite of our woundedness, have
always wanted us to heal. But with that being said,
(40:56):
I want to speak to the men, and I want
to ask the men out there, those of you that
are causing harm right now. And you know who you are.
You know in your spirit that you're disrespecting, that you're violating,
you know, and whether you do it however, you know.
(41:18):
And sometimes it's done at work, and sometimes it's done
in social justice movements, sometimes even done in ceremony. Where
is that at or it's in your own home, you know,
get some help. We didn't have help years ago. We
have help now. It's the hotline you can call. You're
not going to heal unless you seek the healing. So
(41:42):
please seek the help. I want to speak to the
men that know, men that violate and in various levels,
from the sexual violence, to the sexualisition of women, to
the jokes, to deals and familias to everything. You know,
(42:06):
call those men in acknowledge what they're doing and saying,
you know, that's not okay. You know, come with me
to get some help. Let's go talk about this. Come
to a citicle to come. You know those men they
are doing You need to get them help. And if
they don't respond, then you call other brothers in and
circle around them and do an intervention. Right, we can't
(42:28):
just stand by and see this and allow that to happen.
So please do your part in calling other men in
and then maybe you have to call them out. And
then for the rest of us men out there, you know,
all of us, regardless of the journey. And I'm still
doing my work. I'm still trying to figure this. I
(42:50):
want to acknowledge my compania, Susanna, who in spite of
you know, she still teaches me, she still heals me,
she still makes room for you know. And so I'm
still trying to decolonize. I'm still trying to do my best.
But in that I'm a male in this society, it's
(43:14):
in me, it's in all of us. All of us
men need to recognize that and do our work. If
we don't do our work, then we're going to follow
those patterns. We're going to follow those patterns and finally
for the men and you know, Ozzie will be here
later and the number of people that don't do this
work with fathers with boys. We have a you know,
(43:36):
number of wonderful programs with the Compilers Network that teach
young men through nobly rites of passage and fatherhood and
all kinds of other things. We need to really teach
that next generation the sense of in our native language
we say in Cloaka nawaka, the interconnected sacredness. And what
that means that that the honoring of our relationships, the
(43:57):
honoring of especially women and children, and the honoring of
their voice, and the honoring of no means no doesn't
mean you ask again or try harder. It means no,
you honor that. And and besides that, we are responsible
for taking helping to take care of all our relations.
So I want to call to the men out there,
you know, we have to step in, we have to
(44:19):
step up and and and there are places now that
we can do that, you know, And so I just
want to appreciate, you know, all those people that are working,
because there's a number of people that are working in
this area, you know. And finally, I want to apologize
to the women because as much work as we've done
all these years, we still got a lot of work
(44:40):
to do, you know, and and you know we're trying, well,
we got more to do. So, you know, I invite
them whead us to call us in when we need
to be called in, to share with us, you know,
in a good way, so that we can do better.
But there's a a lot of us that want to
(45:01):
do better and are willing to do better.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Well, I'll just close this segment real quick by just
thanking you.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
What's really calling out to me from hearing you, Barbara
and Jerry's that it really this issue is really going
to take each and every one of us, and that
we all have a role to play.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
We all have agency, and.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
We all know someone that needs might be ourselves, that
needs that care and that empathy and that compassion.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
And it's not for.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Everybody, right there's righteous rage right now, But then that's
the place where Jerry and I can come in and
step into that man or whoever and call them in
to figure out, like, hey, we need to resolve this
in a healthy way. And you know we we haven't
named it explicitly, but you know we have traditions. We
(45:58):
have you know, we have circle, we have the medicine,
we have things that are for these kind of.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Crisises that we're in.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
And so I just wanted to end by just saying
I love you both dearly for the work you do.
Who you're connected to, your ancestors, your staff. We are
a reflection of who we surround ourselves with, and so
I hope that I can continue to surround myself with
the two of you, and I just from the bottom
of my heart, I just want to say thank you
for the work. I know it's not easy, it's not public,
(46:28):
and because it's not public, people think it's not happening.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
And more than anything, I want.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Folks to know, yes, there's these these big, high profile
things that trigger but at the same time, there's incredible
work going on and we can't lose sight of that.
So thank you very much for being on this and
whatever I could do to support.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
I am here for you so thank you, thank you,
thank you.
Speaker 4 (46:51):
Cool.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
Sacred Lessons is a production of My Heart's Michael through
It our podcast, Networth, Sacred Lessons Media, and the Prince Group.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
For more of your favorite show, visit
Speaker 3 (47:00):
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Warning.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This episode discusses rape and sexual violence. If you or
someone you know requires support, please call the East Los
Angeles Woman's Centers twenty four to seven by lingual hotline
at eight hundred five eight five six two three one.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
What are the cycles fathers passed down that suns they're
left to yield? What if being a man was holding
it all together and learning how.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
To let go?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
This is a space where to find the power to
heal and transform. I'm Mike Dela Rocha. Welcome to Sacred Lessons.
Some conversations are uncomfortable, the sacred ones are necessary. Welcome
to Sacred Lessons on Mike Dela Rocha in today's episode
(00:48):
is Different. We're gathered here at the UCLA Chicano Studies
Research Center for a live taping of Sacred Lessons, bringing
together community leaders, practitioners, and organizers for a conversation that
it's difficult yet urgent. This is the first in a
series of episodes that we're doing to talk honestly and
openly about sexual violence, violence against women, and violence against children.
(01:13):
Over the years, awareness has grown, movements have created space
for survivors to speak their truth, and yet this violence
persists in our homes and in our communities. Today is
not just about awareness. It's about deep listening, shared accountability,
and asking the question what does it actually mean to
(01:34):
repair harm. It's about dressing one of the hardest truths
we have to face. Much of this violence doesn't happen
in the shadows of strangers. It happens in the silence
of our own families, and shame has been one of
the most powerful forces keeping that silence in place. Because
(01:55):
if we are being honest, this issue is not separate
from us, if we're telling the truth, it lives within
the ways we have been taught to understand power, gender,
and masculinity.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So today we hold.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Space for a conversation rooted in dignity, responsibility, and healing.
Not to shame, not to judge, but to move forward
with clarity, courage, and community. So thank you both for
being here. I'll just quickly contextualize for those listening. I
(02:31):
am sitting with two gems of the Latino and Chicano community.
Barbara Coppos is the executive director of the East La
Women Center, who is celebrating fifty years this year of
doing incredible work down the street from where my father,
my family immigrated in bot Heights and my estra Jerry Theo,
(02:53):
one of the architects of the National Composities Network that
has really centered healing with families, in particular young boys
and men, and who I've been blessed to participate in
a lot of.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
The work that they do.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And before we even start, I just wanted to look
you both in the eye and just say I'm blessed
to be here.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
There may be.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Tears that come, but I just want you to know
they come from a place of me wanting to be
a better person and a better father and a partner.
But also because I have a lot of relatives in
my immediate family that are on both sides of this
issue have committed harm and have been harmed themselves, and
sometimes it's one of the same. And I just am
very blessed. I know there's a lot of emotions here,
(03:41):
but I wanted you guys to know how grateful I
am that you are here. I wanted to start with you, Barbara,
just because the work that the East LA Women's Center does.
You know this has been in the news obviously, most
recently with what is transpired in the revelation with Sessa
(04:01):
delortus in so many but from your perspective, what is
it that we're not fully grasping or understanding about this
issue of sexual violence in our community right now?
Speaker 5 (04:14):
Well, before I start, I really want to thank you
for giving this space to discuss this. One of the
things that happens always is when these type of high
profile occurrences happen, it's in the media, we talk about it,
and then we move on. And that's, you know, something
(04:35):
that we at East Los Angeles Women Center cannot do.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
We don't move on.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
And it's not only about high profile cases, is about
everyday life. So I thank you for giving us this
opportunity to really, you know, move from awareness to meaningful change.
And then I want to really express my deep appreciation
to Jerry Tayl the privilege of knowing for thirty years
(05:03):
and I know that dates us here, but it is
what it is. Over the year. Over the years, our
collaboration both at the East Los Angeles Women's Center and
a previous agency has been grounded in a shared community
where we built inclusive programs that supported teen fathers, youth development,
(05:25):
fatherhood engagement, and most recently, restorative practices. So just Jerry
thank you for your leadership and your vision and you're
centering around healing for the communities we both serve. Just
a little bit about the East Los Angeles Women's Center. Yes,
we are celebrating fifty years and this agency started from
(05:48):
Latino women in the community who wanted to build a
rape hotline that would be bilingual. And you know, they
started out with, you know, just grassroots approach, and you know,
since then, of course we've evolved. I'm sorry, we've evolved,
and you know, we have an array of services providing
(06:10):
services for sexual assault survivors, domestic violence, HIV, and housing programs.
Your question was, how do we support survivors right and
fully understand sexual violence in our communities.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I'm sorry, time, okay.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Number one, sexual violence is more common than people want
to believe, and it is deeply under reported. Most survivors
never disclose. They keep silent because of fear, immigration concerns,
economic dependence, stigma, and the mistrust of systems. So those
(06:59):
statistics are not true the ones we hear right, Survivors
often know the person who harmed them, and you just
mentioned that, and usually it is a family member, Usually
it is it can be their own father, stepfather, an uncle.
And you know, the difficulty about that is that we
(07:21):
have survivors enter our center every day with this story.
And I just wanted to share briefly about this one
woman that I worked with for one year. She was
assaulted by her father from a young age all the
way to adulthood, and her mother would participate by locking
(07:43):
her in the garage and this would go on for years.
So when she came to the center, she expressed to
me that what had happened to her, she really never
spoke about it, and she felt such shame. But she
also had difficulty leaving her family, even though you know,
(08:04):
anyone would think, well, you know, why would you ever
want to be a part of a family that harmed
you in this way, But that was her grief and
her her journey was to try to remove herself and
become whole, even though that was for her, the most
difficult thing to do is to leave her family. So,
(08:27):
you know, I think that's where survivors are misunderstood. They
don't understand the grief and the trauma that individuals are
faced with. And every story is different, every journey is different.
Trauma is not always visible, and it doesn't follow a timeline.
There is no right way to respond to trauma. Survivors
(08:51):
may seem strong, they may feel like they can continue
with life at a normal pace. Helene is not linear.
It can take years, and it can resurface at different
life stages. Often we hear the word trigger. Someone was triggered,
even though they may have experienced sexual violence a long
(09:12):
time ago, but something happens a storyline, they're watching a movie.
We get these calls on our hotline all the time,
someone who had experienced trauma twenty years ago and something
triggered them. So there's no way, there's no one way
to describe trauma. Culture, silence, and stigma are powerful barriers
(09:36):
in many of our communities. They are deeply rooted beliefs
about family unity, gender roles, and shame. Survivors are often
told directly and indirectly stay quiet to protect the family
or to avoid bringing attention. That silence can be harmful
as the violence itself. And I think most of us
(10:00):
understand the family dynamics. If something happens in that home,
we all many times are told to be silent, but
it's so harmful. And again, you know, building awareness is
one thing, but to really make a change about how
culturally of how we need to embrace this type of
(10:21):
you know, trauma and families. The impact goes beyond the individual.
It affects entire families. Children who witness and experience violence
carry that trauma. It shapes relationships, parenting, health, and long
term well being. Without intervention, cycles of violence can continue
across generations. And I'm sure Jerry will talk about this,
(10:45):
but one of the reasons we are now providing an
approach that is restorative is because children in our center
who we were treating, would say to us, I want
to know my father, like to know my father, even
though that individual cost harm to the family, But they
(11:06):
would express how they listened to the fighting, or they
listened to any type of physical harm that happened in
the home and how it impacted them. And many times
the parents didn't realize what was going on with the children,
but they wanted to know both both parents. So, you know,
(11:26):
one thing I have to say as an administrator of
my organization, most funding is only directed at the survivor
or the victim, and children are not included in these programs.
And so how are we going to end generational trauma
if we don't treat also the children. So one of
the things we do at the agency is that we
(11:48):
have services that provide support for the entire family. We
have a nurturing program, which is a parenting program that
serves the entire family, and then therapeutic services that provide
that type of you know, work with the family and children.
And then if and dumbddies will later in your segment,
(12:10):
we'll talk about possibly then they may be able to
come together in a dialogue and begin to heal as
a family. That's the most ideal situation. But if not,
then at least that child's able to process what they
were feeling and be able to you know, create their
own healing. Healing is possible.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
I was gonna say so just just to be clear
that you s l a woman's center than make if
possible works with the entire family, if all folks are
willing to go through that process.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
Right, it's always survivor centered. This is if the survivor
wants to move in that direction, then we will look
at if it's a safe situation, if they're prepared to
come together, that's you know a little bit. It's a
very long process, but it's definitely one that we embrace
at our organization. So I believe healing is possible, but
(13:07):
it requires sustained, compassionate support. When survivors are met with belief, dignity,
and access to the right resources, they can heal, or
we can. We hope they can heal, right, but not
by going back to who they were, but by rebuilding
their own terms. And you know, we see this all
(13:31):
the time at the agency, through our housing programs. Many
of the women who come to especially our emergency shelter
or the transitional house, you know they have come from
other you know, countries, from Mexico, Watemala, you know, different countries.
They had a difficult journey coming here and then they
come here and they again experienced trauma. But you know,
(13:54):
with time and with the resources and with the support,
you see this evolvement in these in these individuals and
and their children. And you know it's unfortunate right now
under this administration that you know, they're cutting funds on
these types of programs, but you know we will continue
to be next to them and to support their journey
(14:17):
of healing. So I don't know if I gave you
the exact what a survivor you know everybody again, everybody's
journey is different, but you know the support and the
you know, being with someone that you don't judge and
that you believe them is enough some times to allow
that person to move forward.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Thank you, Jerry with a lot A lot was shared
and uh, I know you've you continue to do a
lot of work with with men and boys, no given given.
What was shared about believing and uh being there for survivors?
(15:02):
What role is for us men who are listening? What
role do we playing in your fifty years of the
patterns you've seen?
Speaker 4 (15:11):
What? What? What? What?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
What is percolating in your heart?
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Well? Thank you, Thank you Mike, and thank you Barbara.
You know, uh just that's an honor to continue walking
with you and attempting to heal our community. I want
to thank creator the ancestors that came before that never
(15:38):
got a chance to heal. We know our stories, we
are our history, we know what's going on with our people.
And there's so many of our ancestors and never got
a chance to heal. And what I've learned, you know,
sometimes I cry and the tears just come out. What
(15:58):
I've been taught is sometimes those tears aren't my tears
tell a story about my mama. My mama's tears tell
a story about my daddy. Is my daddy's tears. And
I never got a chance that way. But you know,
when you talk about the role of men, you know,
I grew up in a you know, family, Mexicano native family,
(16:18):
but I grew up in Compton, you know, and a
lot of us living there in that house and parents
who worked very hard. Family worked very hardly with Alita.
You know, I grew up very strong women, by the way.
You know, when I took a Mexican American studies class,
they said, you know, Latino women are humble and subservient,
and I'm saying, well, shit, where are they at? You know,
because I didn't grow up with those kind of women.
(16:40):
I grew up a very strong grandma, mothers. You know,
my sister would kick my brothers. I mean, I just
grew up with very strong women. But you know, we
grew up in a household too that that we lived
in an environment, and you know, and I think this
is interconnected, you know, because you know, my body is
feeling a lot of things recently because we lived across
(17:01):
street from an elementary school and sometimes playing on that
school yard. You know when your friends who go to
the fence and they go to the fence and you
can see what they're going to the fence and somebody's crying,
and they're crying because the amiga or the police are
picking up on their relatives, right, and that your your
friend is crying, and so you go and hug your friend.
And but then the bell rings and you got to
go inside and put those feelings away. And you know,
(17:23):
and and and I say that because you know, we
talk about shame, but it's really about fear, and it's
really about the patriarchy, and it's really about the system
that a lot of our families that would think about
saying something are not going to say something, and are
not going to say nothing because you're gonna come take
my kids away from me. You're going to come and
and separate us. You're gonna where are you gonna put them?
(17:44):
Put them that foster care, You're gonn put them over there.
And and there's a whole history of our children being
taken away from us. So it's a it's a larger
issue of just shame. It's a larger issue of the system.
Really blaming victims and blaming families and really not wanting
to heal us, but incarcerating or deporting or it's a
larger issue. And I remember as a little kid. You know,
(18:05):
it's interesting because you know, as I think back all
these years, how did I how did I get on
this road? You know. You know, in families, you know,
we have parties and parties and people drinking, you know,
and I was assigned. You know, I might say with
usmana take care of your sister and your niece. So
so I as a little boy, you know, and men
(18:26):
would be drinking there. And you know, if we go
to bed now, and we go to bed, and I
remember laying in bed with my hand and my sister
and I'm my niece, you know, because the men would
have to come to that room to go to the bathroom,
and someone were drunk, and so we're falling, and so
you know you're not going to touch them, you know,
And and so I didn't sleep. I used to stay
awake and make sure my sister my niece are okay,
(18:49):
you know. And so the the consciousness, you know, it's
interesting how ancestors send you to do something. They started
really early with me, think, pay attention, pay attention to this, right,
and and you know, and and and you don't think
nothing of it. You just think, okay, well, you know,
but I was put in that role early on, early on,
you know, I was I was the one that the
(19:12):
girls would they like to be my friend. You know,
you're good to talk to. You know, I want to
be your brother, and I want to be your brother,
want date tube, but they want to be my brother.
You know. I was the one that the girls had
talked to, right, And I didn't understand they.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Were teaching me.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
The girls were teaching me how to listen, how to
be present, how to pay attention. Right. So this this journey,
you know, I started with women teaching me, with the
girls teaching me. My mama, my grandma teaching me, right,
and and you know, and then you you grow up
(19:48):
to try and have a profession, and and you know,
sometimes the work chooses you, you know. And and by
the way, I was with the first male to work
with was then the Estellar Rip. I was the first
male hired. And because I was seeing as a therapist
a lot of men being reported and their men that
(20:11):
looked like me. Look at my dad looked at my
theos you know, reported for domestic violence or sexual assault
or whatever, and it really, you know, it bothered me.
It was time that Chicano movement, we're very proud of
being Chicanos and all that, they had a lot of
cultural pride, but there was this other side of the saying, damn,
why are we hurting each other? Why are we treating
(20:31):
the women like that? Why are we were'ting the kids?
And it just you know, kind of tore me apart.
And I was trying to find these answers, and so,
you know, I began working there and this is back
you know, in the late eighties early nineties that we
began a program called Una Familia One Asana. We developed
a number of artists, a theater piece on sexual abuse
(20:53):
in Mexicano families, right, and we traveled across the country
doing tiatro and you know, trying to create awareness. But
nobody wants to fund that, nobody wants to invest in that,
especially in our Communit it's your community, that's what you
guys do. So we tried to do awareness, We tried
(21:14):
to do create you know, and it was amazing because
you know, if you're going to talk to familias about
sexual abuse. They're not going to come, but it's amazing
if you do it. Tiatro and all these people in
the audience. And then we got a line of women
going to talk to to Raquel who was the victim,
and they all line up to talk to her, you know.
(21:35):
And where do we go? We were from to then
theasreg plot linement, you know, and so the journey has
been a long journey. But I knew that we had
to do something as men, right and and so I
called men together because all they were doing with the
men they would either deport us or incarcerators. It wasn't
(21:56):
about healing, and it is about incarceration. You get incarcerated,
do your time, You come out and you got the
same wounds. It's not like anybody got heal and you
go back to the family, or you go back to
the community, or you go back to another relationship. So
we haven't really solved anything. We incarcerated somebody, maybe you know,
created accountability and so safety for a little while, but
(22:16):
in terms of the larger picture, people are still involved,
you know. So you know, I called to the number
of men that work in the community and to come
and see if we could develop programs. You know what
happened in that retiro it was back in eighty eight,
is we came together and you know, we have this
medicine on that road, and you like that, Gopal, and
(22:38):
ask the answers to come in. Be careful when you
ask the answers to come in, because they'll give you truth.
And we did it on a cimiento. And the second
brother in shared, I won't help my community. But then
he says, but I'm losing my family. I don't know
how to love my family. I don't know how to
love my kids. I don't know how to love and
he begins crying. And back in eighty eight, you know,
(23:00):
we didn't. We didn't seem men normally cry. I mean,
we did wander like we were tore up or something,
or we pretend it's our sinus is you know, you know,
but we didn't straight up cry. And this brother straight
up cried in front of us. Nineteen. I was like, well,
what's going on here? We supposed to be developing programs,
you know, And then he says, I'm musa share something deeper.
He says, I know why? He says I was sexual
(23:22):
abuse the kid, and then he begins to really cry,
like spirit cry, like we can't top cry. And when
he began crying like that, all of us are crying
because what it touched in us is all the wounds
that we had never dealt with, you know, all the
trauma that we had never talked about. And when we
(23:43):
realized back then, almost forty years ago, before we go
out and try and help somebody else, you better heal
this stuff. We start talking honestly and realize, you know what,
we got some shit to deal with. We got some patriarchy,
some misogyny, we got some stuff that you know, we're
living out that we say we want to step chickinto
power and all that stuff. Well, how about how we
treat our family. How about how we treat our companier,
(24:05):
how about how we treat our children, how about how
we treat each other? And we went on a journey,
you know, to try and address those things. You know,
been on that journey a long time, Mike.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
But in this journey, you know, there was a recent
piece that came out. I don't know if folks saw it.
I was sharing with you earlier CNN around this website.
You were doing this investigation, and it was a website
that was teaching men how to rape women, and sixty
(24:43):
two million people visited this site in February alone. It's
a global site, but the majority of people going to
this website from the United States. Men for the United States.
They were teaching them though, how to drug their wives.
And so when I hear this, this is the tension
I'm having. Is when I'm sitting in a circle of
(25:03):
elders and we're talking about these conditions that exist to
fifty years that still exist. Now, I guess that is
the question, do you see them still existing? Because now
I'm very clear with my young son, who just turned thirteen,
I'm fighting against an algorithm that I can't win, and
so I'm trying to figure out how to pour into
(25:25):
them a more healthier way to interact. And obviously it's
my partner and I doing this. But this is where
this issue.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
You know, we.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Mentioned shame, We also mentioned silence, and then you mentioned fear,
and all three of them are bed buddies, and given
that reality, how do we navigate that as family members?
I'm not even putting gender on this, but as family members.
When you mentioned you holding your you know, and so
many of our families. You know what theo not to
(25:55):
go near when they're drinking at a party. You also
know when family member goes on vacation, at least in
my family, we call it vacation when they go to prison,
and it's because they harm somebody and so, but those
are realities that are in our families and we don't
talk about it. So this is part of the unearth
in that. But what advice or what do you give
(26:16):
to someone saying, yeah, I can relate to everything that
the two of you said, or I can relate to
what you said, Mike, And what do I do?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Where do I go? How do I become a better person?
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Well, let me let me just because you know, I
think I think it is we have to acknowledge that
the woundedness and the harm, and the patriarch and all
the missages, all of that is in our families. Right.
The wound is there, The sexualization of especially women is there,
(26:48):
The disrespect, the hierarchy of that, all of that is there.
It exists, and we got to deal with it straight up, right.
But it's but what you mentioned, it's it's a global issue.
This issue is is huge and it's a lot larger
than any of us want to even recognize. And there's
a whole world and society and government out there that
(27:10):
is turning a blind eye to this, right, So I
just want to mention that as the global issue, but
not to skirt what we need to do, right, because
I think we need to take responsibility among ourselves, you know,
and speaking as a man, I need to take responsibility,
and I need to make sure you you're taking responsibility
and you're taking I mean, it's part of our collective responsibility.
(27:32):
But it's it's it's a major issue, and it's you know,
and and again there's variations of this as well, because
you know, the sexual abuse of children is is one thing,
and that's you know, when we're talking about sexual violence,
that's a spiritual issue. That's a breaking of spirits, right,
That's that you know, your spirit just just lodges. It's
(27:52):
that susto that you know, you it it's hard to
to you know, to men from you. Right. So so
that's that's a very significant issue that we need to
talk about. But how do we heal from that because
you know, that's also the woundedness that we all carry
is very significant. In our communities. And I think so
(28:14):
there's various levels of how we need to address it.
First level heating is acknowledgment. Let's acknowledge the truth and
acknowledge the gotta gis acknowledge the wound that we carry
amongst each other. Let's have these conversations. Let's create accountability.
But then we need to create also a path for healing.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Barbara with the last point that Jerry just said, how
do we create a healthy accountability and a pathway for
healing in the line of work that you've been involved
in or obviously I know it's possible because you both
are sitting here, but for those that probably don't know,
like like hey, once someone commits harm, it's a hard
(28:55):
stop get out. And I had this conversation at the
coffee at the Beat of Coffee yesterday with two men
that already serve time in prison. And when we talk
about child sexual assault or assaulting a woman, there's certain
boundaries that then they're like dead to us. And I
know from a cultural standpoint, like that's a slippery slope
(29:16):
once you start going down there. And so I wonder
from your experience, how do we hold the and.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Both well one thing we have to teach our children empathy, kindness,
and love, and you know, it's unfortunate that sometimes that
doesn't happen. I had experience with my son. I've raised
three kids, and he was telling me, Mom, I was
at this party when he was in college, and this
(29:42):
lady came next to his young girl and she was drunk,
and she put her head on my shoulder and I
sat there and I just, you know, helped her move
to the side and I made sure she got home.
And I wanted to cry because I said, Okay, if
I haven't done anything else, that's you know, I feel
like I've accomplished, you know, And I raised, you know,
(30:06):
a young man that has respect for women, and you know,
I think that's really important that we remember that these
young boys need that guidance they need, and we need
to be honest with them. You know, we hide everything,
and they're seeing everything anyway, and so we're blind to that.
I was raised by a single mom who worked hard
(30:29):
by herself in this world, and I remember her coming home.
She was a waitress and she would tell me how
you know, her boss would touch her and she'd come
home and you know, she would cry and she let
me know that, and in a way, I think that
made me who I am today because I wasn't you know,
(30:50):
she didn't shield me from that, not that she wanted
to hurt me, but she was being honest with me,
and she wanted me to know how to protect myself.
And you know that I wanted. I know you were
going to ask a question about accountability, so I'm jumping ahead,
but you know one of the things. And you know,
I'm so humbled and fortunate to work with amazing women
(31:14):
at our center and with promo TOAs women in the
community who reach out and just support women in the
community that would never come forward if it wasn't for
that promo. Doda and a few years back, maybe some
of you know you may have heard about the janitorial movement,
and we were part of that, and Lilia Garcia who's
(31:37):
now the Labor Commissioner, and my dear friend was the
executive director of MCTF, and SEIU and valor Us and
all of us came together because we found out from
janitors that they would be raped or sexually harassed at
(31:58):
their job site and they were silent. They couldn't say
anything because of immigration issues. And because of maybe losing
their job, right, And it reminded me of my mother
that would go to work and would stay silent because
she had to have that job to raise us, right.
But one thing that went further, they had our backing,
(32:19):
you know. And so once that came out and there
was a documentary that's really rape on the on the
Night Shift. It's really, you know, an amazing documentary that
talked about how these ladies struggled and mainly you know,
immigrant women. They came together and we came together and
(32:39):
we you know, really mobilized and through the Yabasta project campaign,
they mobilized other women and you know, there's a movement
now and one of our collectives, one of our promo
daughter Calypses are industry women who go out to the
(33:00):
those sites and help them and build awareness, but not
just awareness like what can you do to protect yourselves?
But one of the things about accountability that we need
to remember is we need institutional accountability. It's not enough
for just that individual to be accountable for their harm,
but policies and systems play into harm.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Right.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
So it's one thing to help our children understand, you know,
their role in this life but it's also our role
to help change those institutions.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
And when you're talking institutions in particular, you're talking government education.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
With all of them.
Speaker 5 (33:38):
Yeah, And you know, just like the janitorial we had
to go to the unions, we had to go to
the big corporations where at the end of the day
what happened is now all of there and some of them,
not all of them, but some of the corporations. They
do have to have these trainings, and the trainings are
done by promotodas, so it's directly from people who have
(34:02):
experienced this harm. And so these are the things that
we need to keep moving towards, you know, changing all
industries so that type of harm is never never accepted.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
You know, with it Like you know, I think, you know,
what is the role of men in that, because you know,
we're in in the janitorial roles of watching this right,
we're in the fields working with the mourets, We're in
different places where we see this going on, right, And
and our role really needs to be stepping up and
standing up and speaking of right. I mean, we need
(34:36):
to really have a role. And I understand, you know,
because you know, my parents sometimes worked in jobs that
were very disrespectful or harming to them. But the reality
is that that, you know, the honoring of relationships and
the is primary, right. I you know, I've learned from
(34:57):
Mayouelita get throw us at baga. You do something good,
it's gonna cut. You're gonna be okay, right and many
times again because of the fear. And I understand the
necessity to work, and so you don't want to step
up because you're gonna get fired. But you know, the
reality is your dignity, your identity is primary. And to
you know, I mean, I would you know, I always
(35:19):
talk about I was just doing the presentation in Sacramento
this morning, and I'm saying, you know, I teach anger
management and peaceful stuff, but if somebody walk in that
room want to mess with it, I'm stepping up, you know.
I mean, you got to step up. And sometimes you
got to step up, and yes, it's going to cost
you something, but that's our role. Our role has to
be truth. Our role has to be you know, stepping
(35:40):
into the responsibility of taking care of one another. Right,
and we as men, because we are part of the
issue that creates this, we have to step in harder
and further to this issue, you know, because in order
to balance out, you know, the harm that does exist.
But we're we're there too in our has to be
(36:01):
a step up, speak up, and stand.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Up, Barbara.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Just, I know we're getting close to time, just in
terms of I'm trying to decognize my own capitalistic mind
right now wanting answers, you know, And I know this
is a process, and we're starting a number of conversations,
and what I'm really hearing is like the acknowledgment is
the first and foremost, but we can't separate our own
(36:33):
individual actions to the larger systemic structural things.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
We have to do the and both.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
We've got to.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Transform systems that operate off of control and domination and
separation and division and all that while taking a deep
look within us. One thing that I'm very clear on
is I can't do this work alone. That I have
to do it alongside a community of folks. And I
do know for those that are listening or watching that
(36:58):
you all both are part of amazing communities, those in
in in East Los Angeles and those across the country
through the Compositis network. And so just in terms of
final closing or thoughts that you would have to share. Barbara,
I'll start with you just last you know, what's what's
what's coming out that you want to share, just for
(37:20):
those that are new to your work, but also just
new to this work in general.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
Okay. You know, most important is that a survivor is
always believed, and that we don't cause further harm, and
that we understand that individuals that are going through this
have their own process. You know, in this society there's
(37:48):
a stages of grief, right and we're supposed to fit
that go through these stages, but really grief is ongoing.
You know, there's you lose someone and you don't have
a certain amount of time that you forget about them.
They live within you. And the same thing happens with
trauma and survivors. You know, they may be doing well
(38:11):
and then all of a sudden something happens in their
life and we need to be there for them. You know,
I speak more on you know. I do appreciate though
that our work has merged with the National Compilers Network,
with the men that we see, because I truly believe
(38:33):
we can't do this alone, you know, women alone. We
need to have that alliance, and we need to continue
to strengthen that for the sake of our children, for
the sake of our communities. This is a very difficult
time in this world. I mean, people are dying every
day in wars and you know, suffering is happening, and
(38:55):
this is when we really need to stand up. And
you know, as I said earlier, we have to teach empathy, respect,
dignity for all, and sometimes we get lost in it,
especially when we have this type of leadership in place.
But you know, with looking at the students here and
(39:16):
young people, this is what we have to do, is
to continue to strengthen our communities. And I just want
to say one plug. We have promottas at our agency
and I love them dearly because these are women, most
of them survivors, that go into the community and reach
out to individuals that usually would not come forward. And
(39:41):
I really truly believe the community itself can heal itself.
So that's my message.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Thank you. Well. First of all, I want to think
the more it is, you know, I remember again when
I was deep in this work a number of years ago,
when I started with eas Still Hotline and there was
(40:11):
a conference in downtown La at the Hilton and I
went there and there was three hundred women there and
me and they kicked me out. There's a man in here,
you know. And they kicked me out right. And it
was the Chicano and African American women that says, no,
we need it. There's a black and brown women that says, no,
(40:34):
you can't kick her men out. We need them, you know.
So I first want to thank the women that, in
spite of our struggles, in spite of our woundedness, have
always wanted us to heal. But with that being said,
(40:56):
I want to speak to the men, and I want
to ask the men out there, those of you that
are causing harm right now. And you know who you are.
You know in your spirit that you're disrespecting, that you're violating,
you know, and whether you do it however, you know.
(41:18):
And sometimes it's done at work, and sometimes it's done
in social justice movements, sometimes even done in ceremony. Where
is that at or it's in your own home, you know,
get some help. We didn't have help years ago. We
have help now. It's the hotline you can call. You're
not going to heal unless you seek the healing. So
(41:42):
please seek the help. I want to speak to the
men that know, men that violate and in various levels,
from the sexual violence, to the sexualisition of women, to
the jokes, to deals and familias to everything. You know,
(42:06):
call those men in acknowledge what they're doing and saying,
you know, that's not okay. You know, come with me
to get some help. Let's go talk about this. Come
to a citicle to come. You know those men they
are doing You need to get them help. And if
they don't respond, then you call other brothers in and
circle around them and do an intervention. Right, we can't
(42:28):
just stand by and see this and allow that to happen.
So please do your part in calling other men in
and then maybe you have to call them out. And
then for the rest of us men out there, you know,
all of us, regardless of the journey. And I'm still
doing my work. I'm still trying to figure this. I
(42:50):
want to acknowledge my compania, Susanna, who in spite of
you know, she still teaches me, she still heals me,
she still makes room for you know. And so I'm
still trying to decolonize. I'm still trying to do my best.
But in that I'm a male in this society, it's
(43:14):
in me, it's in all of us. All of us
men need to recognize that and do our work. If
we don't do our work, then we're going to follow
those patterns. We're going to follow those patterns and finally
for the men and you know, Ozzie will be here
later and the number of people that don't do this
work with fathers with boys. We have a you know,
(43:36):
number of wonderful programs with the Compilers Network that teach
young men through nobly rites of passage and fatherhood and
all kinds of other things. We need to really teach
that next generation the sense of in our native language
we say in Cloaka nawaka, the interconnected sacredness. And what
that means that that the honoring of our relationships, the
(43:57):
honoring of especially women and children, and the honoring of
their voice, and the honoring of no means no doesn't
mean you ask again or try harder. It means no,
you honor that. And and besides that, we are responsible
for taking helping to take care of all our relations.
So I want to call to the men out there,
you know, we have to step in, we have to
(44:19):
step up and and and there are places now that
we can do that, you know, And so I just
want to appreciate, you know, all those people that are working,
because there's a number of people that are working in
this area, you know. And finally, I want to apologize
to the women because as much work as we've done
all these years, we still got a lot of work
(44:40):
to do, you know, and and you know we're trying, well,
we got more to do. So, you know, I invite
them whead us to call us in when we need
to be called in, to share with us, you know,
in a good way, so that we can do better.
But there's a a lot of us that want to
(45:01):
do better and are willing to do better.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Well, I'll just close this segment real quick by just
thanking you.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
What's really calling out to me from hearing you, Barbara
and Jerry's that it really this issue is really going
to take each and every one of us, and that
we all have a role to play.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
We all have agency, and.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
We all know someone that needs might be ourselves, that
needs that care and that empathy and that compassion.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
And it's not for.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Everybody, right there's righteous rage right now, But then that's
the place where Jerry and I can come in and
step into that man or whoever and call them in
to figure out, like, hey, we need to resolve this
in a healthy way. And you know we we haven't
named it explicitly, but you know we have traditions. We
(45:58):
have you know, we have circle, we have the medicine,
we have things that are for these kind of.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Crisises that we're in.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
And so I just wanted to end by just saying
I love you both dearly for the work you do.
Who you're connected to, your ancestors, your staff. We are
a reflection of who we surround ourselves with, and so
I hope that I can continue to surround myself with
the two of you, and I just from the bottom
of my heart, I just want to say thank you
for the work. I know it's not easy, it's not public,
(46:28):
and because it's not public, people think it's not happening.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
And more than anything, I want.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Folks to know, yes, there's these these big, high profile
things that trigger but at the same time, there's incredible
work going on and we can't lose sight of that.
So thank you very much for being on this and
whatever I could do to support.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
I am here for you so thank you, thank you,
thank you.
Speaker 4 (46:51):
Cool.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
Sacred Lessons is a production of My Heart's Michael through
It our podcast, Networth, Sacred Lessons Media, and the Prince Group.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
For more of your favorite show, visit
Speaker 3 (47:00):
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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