Sacred Lessons in Becoming: Fatherhood, Ancestry & Purpose

In this episode of Sacred Lessons, host Mike de la Rocha sits with Vic Mensa and his father, Edward Mensah, for a rare, intergenerational conversation about becoming a father, becoming a son, and becoming accountable to something greater than oneself. Vic reflects on how fatherhood has ushered in a quieter, more intentional chapter of his life, grounded in ancestry, purpose, and love. Two men. Two lineages. One shared responsibility: raising sons who know they are loved.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
What are the cycles fathers passed down that son they're left.
What if being a man was about holding it all together?
I've been learning how to let go. This is a
space where to find the power to heal and transform.
I'm Mike Dela Rocha. Welcome to sacred lessons. Some moments

(00:24):
don't change your life, they reintroduce you to yourself. Welcome
to sacred lessons. I'm Mike Dela Rocha. Today's conversation is
about becoming, becoming a father, becoming a son, and becoming
responsible to someone other than yourself. I'm honor to sit
with Vic Mensa, artists, activists, truth teller, and a new

(00:45):
father whose life, art in spirit have shifted in profound
ways since welcoming his son Mansa Moussa Mensa into the world.
Vick has never been afraid to evolve publicly, but fatherhood
has ushered him into a deeper, more intentional chapter one
rooted in ancestry, purpose and fatherhood. This is also a

(01:08):
rare intergenerational conversation. Vick is joined by his father, Edward Mensa.
Two men, two lineages, one shared love, a responsibility to
raise sons who know that they will always be loved
So my guy, thank you all so very much for
this light this up. This is going to be a

(01:31):
good one. As I was sharing earlier, Ed, this whole
podcast came about because of the loss of my father,
and before you came into this studio, I was talking
about how I wish I would have had the opportunity
to do this with my own father so that my
son could hear it and watch it, and that the

(01:54):
lessons that I had gleaned from him could have been shared.
And so first and foremost else, thank you, Vick. You
already know what's up. I love you deeply, my bro,
and I'm excited for what's gonna transpire. So I'll start first,
and foremost, we're just taking a sacred pause since we

(02:15):
are lighting the medicine, inviting my father to join us
and our ancestors here as well. So hey, we have
a good, good combo. I'll start with you, Ed. First,

(02:44):
I just want to thank you for raising such not
just humble, but a very powerful person that has changed
my life and changed the life of so many people
through his artistry, but through his allowing us to enter

(03:04):
into his space and his growth and returning home. So first,
want to just start with you and just you know,
how was it like being a father and the son
for you and your life journey to this moment right here?

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Oh, I tell you when I had him, when one
goes by and went to the hospital on the Chicago
conference and I had his little hand, I felt the
wit of that hand in me. I felt the wit

(03:45):
of my parents, my sisters. I failed. I knew all
of a sudden the way his smiled, little smile was,
you know, and and it was this that it was
a zerto smile. You know, it's you don't know how
to take them, you know. And I knew this was

(04:07):
going to be one tough nut for the world to
deal with in a positive way. I just knew that
I was most happy when I found out that I
had a girl first and now have a boy now,
because it's in our culture. Although we value the girls

(04:30):
as the mothers of society, the man carry it forward.
And I knew completely that he was going to be
a very good person, really good person, because when he
started growing up as a little guy, anytime he picked

(04:51):
the fact, it was sometimes he picked the fact because
he had to, just as kids do all the times,
and most of the time it's the injustice that somebody
has perpetrated on another person that he saw that he
didn't like.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
What I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
It was that was mostly that they got him in
trouble the fight. Even in elementary school. The parents, some
parents will call me and said, no, it looks like
Victory's in trouble with with this with the principal school.
But it's not him. It's my son did this. He
was fighting from his son. He was always standing up,

(05:34):
always stand up for the injustice perpetrated to somebody. And
I would tell him, relax, sometimes fight you won't fight.
That's just to say the next time he's going to
fight somebody more of somebody's fight than his. Won't fight
when I knew it won't stop. H you want to

(05:55):
hear this example this, I'm jumping much, but I would
jump to that because that was very funny. He became
a very good soccer player and his school was playing
at another school on the north side of Chicago, and
this guy was an Englishman who brought his son there

(06:22):
and they just you know, it's good player. So he
can tell whether you are in trouble with the ball.
He he can facilitate you to fall, pretending it's start him,
but it's him, and I know he did that. He
knocked this guy down so badly, so he was kicked out,

(06:43):
but the guy's father ran through the field to fight
him out on, so I ran to the I ran
the field too, so I confronted him and the refreepreted this.
Later on I learned that the guy's son that Victor
knocked down, it's a very big little ricist from there,
from England. He gets away with calling Pakistani's pakis. He

(07:04):
does that all the time. The other schools have been
complaining about the sound. But this time, when they were
marching to the field to start playing, Victor heard him
say paki to his Pakistan the friend. And then he
picked that fight and got a red card for that
fight and one period like why did you want to
get involved on the side of your son, as I

(07:25):
was fighting a good fight.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
That was a really good fight, and.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
His fights have been like that. I'm not shocked one
bit that today his fights are still like that in
a very just way. It will not if someone tells
me victim got out and did something stupid on his own.
All this new now it's just too addressed. An injustice,

(07:53):
you know what I mean, And he's been it hasn't changed.
And that come from imperish my father's lane. They usually
would be picking all that people fight, settling, fight mindy
particularly you know, so I wasn't kind of choked. It

(08:16):
can go on on. All of them have been like
that throughout school, right in the profession too.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
So Veg You've always had this fighting spirit. That saying
is coming from the lineage of your ancestors on the
continent in Africa, more specifically from Ghana. What was it
like growing up in shy town with this man next
to you?

Speaker 3 (08:40):
Well, you know, my daddy always says he wanted me
to be raised in Chicago so that I could learn
the truth about America. Chicago is a crash course in
the realities of America and the value and the opportunity,
but also the disparity and the despair. And I feel

(09:03):
I experienced all of those things in Chicago. And one
of the few close friends of mine that had a
father in the home. It was really just a handful
of us. So my dad was like a father to everybody.

(09:24):
You know. Whenever my friends would come, he would go
through their backpacks, find their homework and their tests. You know,
if they had a C or a D. You know
what I mean, he would lecture them, you know what
I'm saying, like and feed everyone and always instilled principle

(09:53):
and integrity and morality information.

Speaker 4 (10:00):
You know.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
I think even in this current moment, with a lot
of the conversation or videos I'm doing in my backyard
talking about things, a lot of his things that I
learned from my dad, or conversations I have with my dad,
maybe in the present day or in the past. And

(10:25):
that's just like the way that we were raised and
the conversations that we have at home and when we
speak it's oftentimes we talk about history and politics and
philosophy and you know, just things of weight, you know.
So I was definitely raised to be inquisitive and to

(10:51):
be a student and to be educated. He is an educator,
He's a PhD. Professor. I didn't, you know, go to
traditional education beyond high school. But like, education is just
in my blood. So I've been educated myself since, you know,

(11:11):
like probably to a degree beyond a lot of school.
And yeah, so you know what I mean, just who
I am is so clearly shaped and shepherded by my dad,
and you know, also my environment. The environment is just

(11:33):
the environment is just very different, you know, like he
didn't grow up in that environment, so he understands it
on an intellectual level. But both he and my mom
they didn't grow up in that environment. So there's another
thing that comes along with it, you know, there's another understanding.
But then there's also pitfalls and I don't know what

(11:59):
the right word is, like miseducation that comes with the
environment of being in the South side of Chicago, being
in what's at once a very enriching environment, but it's
also really dangerous. It's really violent. It's it's like critical,
you know. So so then I learned that too.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
You know.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
What, what was the What was the rationale when Vic
says that you were intentional about wanting him to be
raised in Chicago, that was a choice. What was the
rationale reason behind that?

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah? Matter of fact, when I came to the United Tea,
I went to Iowa, went to Iowa's teaching University of
SATs Dick. After marry no Great, I give shoot to Chicago.
I think that's one week in between between then I
have been visiting Chicago party with friends, and I look

(13:04):
at the town and I like this town, and also
the school is fantastic. So I came to Chicago for
the school basically, but in the process I found the
diversity of the town. It was very diverse and also
quite turbulent, you know. But in my age in nineteen

(13:27):
eighty Chicago, Uh, it's had Chicago two names, you know,
the Root on the Lake because in the eighties it
was a violent civil war and the Root for a
long time waving. They see when you go to a
golf club, people have a goostic and a machine gun
hanging there because you might need it, you know. And

(13:49):
then South in Africa Johannes Big also you know, another
city on the lake, Chicago on the Lake. They were
quite violent, but still there was some peace education in
the process. Of Chicago that had so many friends who
smiled all the time. Violence not about five hundred, four

(14:10):
hundred and fifty death gunshot deaths a year nineteen eighty
it was about nine and fifteen. Yeah, that was nine
hundred and one thousand, so it really come down. But
in all that I could see the beauty and hearing
stories about all the parts of America. They weren't that different.

(14:32):
Everybody had their violence. I went to conferences in Los Angeles,
conferences in Washington, D C. And I found out the
White House was actually close to the hood, and gunshops
were all around the place.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
That's all the same thing, yeah, every city.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
And I coming from Iowa, I saw, oh white Iowa
was then the second white test or the third the
amount Iowa state, and oh wow, please, I thought, it's
too much homogeneity America being mixed up place. You don't
learn anything by just being like the major being with

(15:13):
the majority all the time. You don't learn much. You
learn to What you learn is to accept anything. You
learn to smile when you shouldn't smile, you know what
I mean? Yeah, because if you don't spire to the guy,
he might probably feel like hes he wants you to

(15:35):
to feel. To smile. In Chicago didn't look like that.
People were expressing their said the way they wanted. So
when I had him here, the one thing I was
praying for my service because my wife was then from
his still from the East Coast, and she wanted us
to raise the case in this school because of violence.
I understand it, you know, And I said, now there's

(15:58):
one lesson. See, I won't be here for long. My
life on earth is shot. I have a boy, I
have kids. I'll do them a huge disfavor if they
are not raised to see America in his totality in
Chicago to me represented the ugly part and the beautiful

(16:18):
part together that lesson, you know. So I've fought moving
out of Chicago onto My wife accepted it, you know.
And with that, I think I have a son who
understands the world. You can't understand the world by growing
up in ile all the month.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
What can I ask you? What was your relationship like
with your father?

Speaker 2 (16:41):
My father? My father had a bunch of professionals. He
was uncompensated traditional chief. He was a traditional trabor chief.
It means you are not paid by the central government,

(17:02):
that your people see you as a leader who can
add you to kate between them and when they have
a problem that could go to court, that could escalate
to violence. But when you go to the tribal courts
and houses, you sit down, there's a languist and then
the you, you, you throw your kids there and they
settled it. And I saw the faintness in his settling

(17:24):
the case all the time. Matter of fact, when you
are guilty. I had him. Sometimes i've tied. You're pronounced guilty,
and you are charged with whatever you're charged with. He says,
you know why you are guilty, but was so clear
that you were guilty. You did this, this, and said

(17:45):
this at this juncture. I'm glad that you didn't twist
your case to be that because most people would have
lied about this to get out of this. And we
had a little bit difficult for me to identify. But
you know you're guilty, but you just said it. So
he points out to you where he can trust your honesty.

(18:07):
And with that kind of honesty, he said, he edued
the case and probably would get a lower sentence settlement
because you you you were you had a funk where
you could have lied and gone this way, you do
the right one.

Speaker 4 (18:21):
So you remember being around all this, and I was
Sometimes the linguist will't show up, the guy who's you're
supposed to talk to, who translated to the chief, because
he's not supposed to talk to you.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Sometimes the linguist will show up and I will be
called to to to to to save us the linguist.
And one time I remember I was, I was, I
was dozing and I didn't listen. I didn't hear. I mean,
I made it?

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Did you know this?

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (18:53):
You know?

Speaker 1 (18:54):
I said, you made up?

Speaker 3 (18:55):
But he said, yeah, did you make him guilty?

Speaker 2 (18:59):
I just said something that was here he said, and
then this time he talked. No, No, that's not what
he said. I said, you weren't supposed to talk, you know.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
But let me ask you though, so so vic Mansa
is the grandson of a tribal chief for real number one,
but number two, given your father's status in the community,
how how was your relationship with him in the sense
of was was he like a present and expressive to you?

Speaker 2 (19:33):
What was that I got?

Speaker 1 (19:35):
I can't.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
I have to be very very truthful. He wasn't educated
in the Western way. He was a very brilliant man.
It's Joe was Captain try So he worked at the
local public works department of town, where he rose to

(19:57):
be a supervisor. They still wasn't education in the Western way,
and anytime he trained the technical school guys the internship,
about three months or so, they become his boss. So
he resented that so much. He pushed all of that
to me to go to school so he I could

(20:20):
I could like I could choose somebody in the street.
He would say, I didn't do it as long as
I brought I brought home a So I was motivated
to be getting a all the time, you know. And
and that was because my big brother, who's a musician, victorist, uncle,

(20:42):
a high left legend. He resented school period, didn't want
to go to school. The father wants you to be
different from him and go to school. This guy will
have nothing to winter school if I started. And after
a third or fourth grade he told them you quit.
So died, almost killed him him, beat him, treated him

(21:06):
very badly. I saw that, So to me, that was
some I thought that some of that miss treatment was
to serve as a lesson to me. He didn't say
that there's a lesson to me that if you do that,
it will And it didn't turn out nicely because my
brother ran away from home and became a musician. It

(21:32):
took a while and the day, yes, I don't know,
maybe ten over ten years, and the day he came
home to visit the next day my father died. Wow.
And the trauma that my mother went through that because
of that, I was scared of. I loved my father,

(21:53):
but I also scared my father. I was very, very scared. Now,
when he doesn't smile, I think probably coming to get me.
So I did everything he wanted to do you want
me to do? At home, of course, when I go
out of town, I was one of the roughest guys
in town. But at home, I'm just so quiet and nice. Yeah,

(22:17):
everybody knew me in high schools not being nice at all. Right,
nice guy, but I was just rough. But at home,
I'm there. My father knew you know that. The first
time he saw me smoking, there was a smoke coming.
He knows the house. It's a long compound house. He

(22:40):
just came home and he saw a smoke, smoke, and
I kind of quickly saw him too, So I rushed
that way, and he stood for a while and didn't
follow me, and went that way right, and then we met.
And then when I before I could see me, I
put a cigaret in my pocket. He stood there too,

(23:02):
and then he woke away. We never talked about it
at all, and it never smoked again in the house. Wow, beauty,
he was watching me.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Did you know these stories?

Speaker 3 (23:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, what you mean? What you mean?

Speaker 1 (23:20):
And that was to ask you, is there a reason
why these stories you never shared with your kids. Oh,
they just never came up or.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, you know, I think that talked about that little
bit you talked about that.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
Well, not not that I didn't know any of these stories,
you know, I know the main tent poles stories, you know,
like the beating of my uncle and his running away,
I'm coming home the day before my grandfather died, But
some of the smaller, you know, cigarette detail stories, I
don't think he's ever told me. I mean, I think
about it a lot that, like, I try to try

(24:00):
to make a practice of extracting information from him because, uh,
you know, we are an oral culture, an oral traditional culture,
and he's the family elder what's it called the official
poe Yeah, yeah, no, but or it's a pennate what's

(24:23):
it called a bush, like the central figure of past
down information and keeper of the knowledge. So I have
to get it from him, you know, because it's not
written down and it kind of ends there. And so
I do think a lot about trying to get as

(24:46):
much information, as many stories as I can from him,
you know. So I ask him a lot about the
about my grandfather's religion. When I went to my grandmother's
funeral I saw on the uh program for the day.
My grandfather's official religion was Vodoun, the original Voodoo West

(25:09):
African Voodoo that was transported through the Middle Passage to
Haiti and Louisiana and other places. And so my pops
would tell me about how his father used to like
cook certain things and like, you know, do animal sacrifices
and you know, the sacrifices to the ancestors and different

(25:32):
uh vo Don practices, and I I'm I'm very I'm
I'm super interested in it, you know, because it's the
traditional religion of my family, and it's been demonized by
the West y because to convince a people that their

(25:53):
god is the devil is the best way to control
them forever, you know, to c evincient people, their God
is the devil and to adopt your god, now they
do whatever your God says to do. And also when
I was in Ghana, one thing I saw that really
astounded me was I saw his birth certificate one time

(26:16):
and on his birth certificate it said Christian name only,
so his name is Edward Kuaku Mensa, but on a
birth certificate is Edward Kingsley Mensa. So they even officiated
into law that you need to reject your traditional name.

(26:42):
And I mean, I know, you know, you know the
impact of that with your people as well, And I
contextualize that directly to the demonization of for Doun and
Ifa and other African spirituals systems, to the point where

(27:02):
Black people will be some of the most severulent enemies
of voodoo and other African spiritual systems because they've been
fed the misinformation that this is the devil, because they've
been fed the misinformation that they are the devil. But
were so many generations detached that the identification with Christianity

(27:25):
is taking at face value as being the truth of
Black people, especcially when you.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
Find these other spiritual religious practices were the original practices
of the people of all the Americas, of all the
globe right and coming from the birthplace of civilization. And
that was the thing that was part and parcel to
your point. But you know, you were talking a lot

(27:59):
about the names too, And you've said, Vic, that fatherhood
has changed you in a profound name. And I know
you were very intentional about naming your son, just like
my father was intentional with me, and I'm assuming you
were with Vic. Can you share a little bit about
that process and why you named your son his name

(28:22):
that you did.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah, I named my son. I named my son Mansa
Mussa Mensa because I wanted him to have a name
that contained greatness African history. Mansa Musa widely considered history
as wealthiest man. He was a gigantic patron of the arts.
It was a huge patron of architecture and of knowledge.

(28:49):
Established the universities in Timbukto some of the first universities
in Africa or on the planet, some of the first
universities on the planet at a time when, uh, you know,
Europe was in the dark ages. And people will tell
you that Africans have contributed nothing to history, but obviously

(29:10):
that's a necessary part of the steel to exploit and
pillage their bodies and their land. So I named my
son Mansa Musa because I wanted his name to contain
the weight of his history and his ancestry. I actually
had a conversation not long ago with a young white
kid who was like barking at me about Manson Musa

(29:36):
having slaves. And it was an interesting conversation because you
know what I was telling him was, first of all,
you need to worry about your own history. You know,
before you come and question me about why I would
exalt or promote a pivotal, important, powerful figure of my history,

(30:05):
you need to worry about your own history first of all.
But also that the story of Massamusa is a complex story.
It's a story that obviously represents represents wealth, it represents power,
represents influence, but it also represents generosity and knowledge. And

(30:27):
Arab travelers who came to Mali in preceding generations commented
that the generosity of Mansimus so far outpaced anything that
existed before or after. And his story is that he
gave out so much gold on his pilgrimage to Mecca,

(30:50):
that he tanked the economy of Cairo for twelve years,
that he came back empty handed. Now, you spend money
to make money, you know, anybody with that much money,
but not to the point that you come back empty handed.
There there was a degree of generosity here, like a
grand degree of generosity, of of of influence of architecture,

(31:13):
and like I think that it plays into the entire
conversation of slavery and indigenous places before Chattel slavery in
posed by by European people that that's a that's a
great difference. It's not that slavery has ever been a
good thing, but it has been a part of human

(31:33):
history across the planet, across cultures forever. But then those
people were most often integrated into communities and into cultures,
and then they intermarried and generations down. They're not permanent slaves.
It's a you know, it's a different thing.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
It's even a different different language because it's not the same.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
And also, I just feel like what I was telling
this kid, I feel like when black people seek to
shine a light on their history in a positive way,
that it's picked apart by white supremacy because it challenges

(32:17):
the narrative of their superiority.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Since I'm sitting with two intellectuals, you know ed, my father,
like you, was a university professor. My father, like you,
was also an immigrant. My father, like you, also instilled
in me a deep understanding of who I am, my culture.
And they say that that books find you, you don't

(32:45):
find books. And a dear friend of mine gifted me
this book for the holidays, and I got this when
I was coming into my own consciousness in college. So
I haven't read this in like decades, and so I
started rereading it again and from it's the Healing Wisdom

(33:06):
of Africa from Melodoma Patris.

Speaker 3 (33:08):
So man, Wow, that's my God, that's and peace. He
just passed away too.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
So I'm going to read something just because it's very
similar what you said about this interaction with his white kid.
He was talking about he ran into a white man Melodoma,
similar to you, and they're having a conversation, and he says,
it was not this man's observation that caught my attention,

(33:35):
but the response to the shaman. A young man in
his early thirties, fully grounded in the art of healing,
He said that his training had taught him that the
white man came to Africa primarily to heal himself, not
to steal from the villages. He went on to say,
we Africans also believe that we need healing at the
hand of the white man. This is why our children

(33:57):
leave us. You see, it's the same world, the same house.
When someone is sick, everyone is sick. Why should we
remain passive while the white man searches the world for
the means to save himself. We are together in the
struggle All our souls need rest in a safe home.
All people must heal because we are all sick. It's

(34:18):
possible that we have been brought together at this time
because we have profound truths to teach each other. Toward
that end, I offered the wisdom of the African ancestors
so that Westerners might find the deep healing they seek
from an indigenous perspective. The individual psyche can be healed
only by addressing one's relationship with the visible worlds of

(34:41):
nature and community, and one's relationship with invisible forces of
the ancestors and our spirit allies. So when I read that,
I was kind of shaken because it like it shook
me because I was like, my upbringing is like nah, bro,
that's not the get down right. And then I had

(35:03):
to like sit with these words because it's like it's
the yes and it's not either or sure, But wondering
what is our passage what does that bring out for
the two of you In context of this conversation.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Obviously we we all have he needs to do. Yeah,
he needs to heal ourselves. When you are taking a
look or accusing somebody of some impropriety all the time,

(35:40):
the question that person to change and make a bitter word,
and it's not happening. And most of the time the
change is within you. If if you kind of change
your mindset, sometimes problem might become easier to address. But

(36:03):
without changing your mind state and completely insisting that the
older person is the only supposed to change for a
better world, we run in cycles. It doesn't work. Pretty
much like that, change yourself is very important. Looking at
the world from the point of view of this author

(36:24):
and our inter relationships with nature. That's Africa. We live
with everything. When you this idea of elong bearded gold
in the sky. The worst thing people know is the
made up story. I tell myself it's about the best

(36:44):
marketing story ever created because it has penetrated most part
of the world and people still believe it. It cannot
be a better marketing story than that. But it's not reality. Myth.
Folks my father's side want to celebrate the voodoo. It's

(37:05):
not like yesterday when I poured my libration first of
all for the Christmas to thank God for all the
graces we are having. Are pour the wine to the land,
the land of which were standing created by the Almighty
called the ancestors and through them, I raised the class

(37:29):
to the Almighty Creator. And we see God in the tree,
in the river, and the nature thing. We see a
guy standing there worship in a tree, is worshiping God.
It's odd by this thing that is here, all by
the lake, over the mountain, over the stone dazzle. And
they told us all those things didn't make any sense,

(37:51):
and that when you go to Rome, you go to
the Catholic Vatican, you see all these pictures on the
wall of Saints. That was the adults too. You know,
I grew up Catholic. I don't practice them all. And
I see all those things. We see the tree, we
see the road, see the mountain, and so I've seeing
a picture of a saint in the world. We don't
do that stuff. They took all of that away from

(38:16):
my hope for the world. See this statement is profound.
I go further than that. My hope for the world
is that people are gradually trying to disengage. Is tough
from that presentation of the automatic Creator. Because Jesus Christ's

(38:40):
stories where was he went from age of three to
thirty six, It was in Africa. You know, he was
landing tough from Etheropia to Egypt, to all those places,
all those are carried thrown out, and he became who
they present them to be. But our kids in that generation,
we pray to rediscover their relationship with nature. And loudly

(39:05):
to me, the Catholic Church, big church yourself, is rediscovering
that they cannot continue telling Native Indigenous that they don't
have a God because that story is really all and
still that story, really I don't know. That story is
really dead right and they have to change it. That
makes me happy for the fact that I baptized. I

(39:28):
got him baptized as as Catholic. It didn't take long
before he quit.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
And I remember.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
The day was being baptized. You know, you have a
godfather or whatever, and the Godfather had to carry carry
him and the priests will have to put made the
cross on the front. It took a fight. He regguled
himself out of so the picture I took was his

(39:58):
his feet hanging up.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
He unconsciously already knew he needed to go back to
the wisdom of Africa.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yea, his future and his hairs down and I'm out
of here. The picture I have.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Said, he is not going to n He already knew
I love this author too.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
This is that's my guy, his other book of Water
and Spirit Water and and I love what he said
there too. I mean, what people got to understand about
the Africans and so many indigenous people is that we're

(40:38):
not retributive by nature. I mean, it's just like not
a primary driving force. And the great White replacement theory
is a fear rooted in.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
A false.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
Principle, like we don't really seek this mass revenge. We
should potentially, you know what I mean, Like I could
understand it, but that's not really, that's not really, that's
not our nature, you know what I mean. And what
Patrio's Maladomasoma here is saying is that when he said
the white man came to Africa to seek his own healing,

(41:25):
not maybe necessarily primarily to exploit. That's a difficult thing
to grapple with. I don't know exactly how I feel
about it, but it does make sense because if you
look at Portugal, who kicked off the race for the
exploitation of Africa, really Portugal was struggling economically, and all

(41:45):
of Europe was seeking the healing of their lack of resources.
I mean, like the primal healing of the fact that
they are on top of each other without the natural
resource that Africa has. Now, did they come to it

(42:05):
to heal that through exploitation? Maybe that's a yes, And
that's another part of interpretation of what he said there.
But I mean, like some I think people misunderstand.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
For me, is that.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
I really don't care for race. I don't really care.
I don't believe in race as a construct. I know
it's false, it's not based in reality. Black as a color,
and then it's a homogenization of all these different cultures.
White is a made up construct that is integrally attached

(42:50):
to a false superiority. I don't believe in either one.
So the way that my spirit actually vibrates for sure
is that we're all just infinite souls and beings of
energy that all need healing, that should collaborate on it. Now,
race is not real. The effects of racism are real,

(43:11):
you know what I mean. So we got to address those.
But what's difficult oftentimes I find for white people is
to hold the conversation about the impacts of racism without
feeling a deep guilt or defensiveness about the constructs of race.

(43:33):
Because we all inherently somewhere deep in our bones. Know
it's fake because when you're born, it doesn't exist, you
know what I mean. But like when we start talking
about it, then people get attached to identity. Identity is
a trigger, you know what I mean, We.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Become they take it real personal. But I was gonna say,
because that's actually my personal philosophy, where you just share
knowing not worth spiritual beings in this physical body that's
actually connected to the land and connected to the cosmos
and ancestry.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
It's all one.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
But these are sacred lessons. And as a new father,
I guess, how are you showing up for your son?
What lessons did you learn from your dad or just
through life that you're wanting to make sure you're instilled
in him.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
I talked to my son a lot, you know. I
talked to him mainly about philosophy and mindfulness and mental programming.
I mean, I talked to him about history. He's one
and a half. He doesn't really understand most of what

(44:42):
I'm saying, but he's internalizing it. I talk to him
like I talked to the camera, like I talked to you,
like I talked to anybody in my life. I talk
to him constantly, and one of the main conversations I
hold with him is just about faith and not a lie,
and fear to hold any dominion over him, having ironclad,

(45:06):
unshakable confidence belief in himself. Those are the things I
focus on the most with him, just because I know
what I struggle with and what I have struggled with
through my life, and the main thing that I'm focused
on with him right now is instilling programming that reinforces

(45:31):
self belief and counteracts and wards off protects against fear
and doubt. Fear what they say, man is God afraid?
You know what I'm saying, That he's in that state
now where he's pre fear, he's pre doubt, he's pre anxiety.

(45:53):
Not even I don't like the way I'm phrasing that,
because that sounds like it's coming to him. But as
human beings, we grow and we and at some point
in time we realize, oh there's something to be afraid of.
I'm working on him so that he has protections against that,
you know, because it's not ever that you'll be a

(46:14):
human being that doesn't experience fear, which is also something
I talk to him about. And you know, but I
tell him, like, courage isn't the absence of fear. Courage
is action in the face of fear, you know. So
if he understands that fear is just it's just an emotion.
You know, it holds no dominion over me, It doesn't

(46:36):
control me. I still take action whether I feel fear
or I feel excitement, because when you can get to
that place, you can dance on that fire line where
fear turns into excitement, and that's when you turn into
a beast.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
You know.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
It's like when you're afraid of something, but that kind
of inspires you, you know what I mean Like that,
that's any athlete, any any fight, or any musician, you
know what I mean. You step out on stage as
a jazz musician improvised, there there's a there's an anxiety
to that, but that heightened state can be transitioned into

(47:16):
flow state, you know, it can be transition transition into
real inspiration if you're not paralyzed by it.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
It's just not frees.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
It's my freestyle, That's what I mean. Freestyle and this jazz.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
You know well that that video the way you're announced
you being a new father, was your video. I want
to be Ready. Yeah, and you directed it. And one
of my favorite scenes from that video is my elders,

(47:52):
my mentors. My father always taught taught me that you know,
the babies and the elder our closest because one is
entering into this world, one is leaving, and so they
come in with this ache and this like understanding, but
they actually choose who their parents are gonna be because

(48:12):
they know that, oh I need to press this button
or do that. And my favorite scene, Vic is like
when your child is saying your words, you know, the
lyrics to you. And I felt like as an artist,
I was like, well, Vix writing this to his son,
Vix writing this to his inner child, Vix writing this
to his dad, you know, and so in that it

(48:36):
was so deep and I was gonna ask you, like,
with with that creative artistic choice, is that in alignment
with what you were talking about right now, is you
were trying to just feed into him. Hey, I'm just
gonna let you know and you're gonna verbalize it to
me even when you can't even speak yet.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
Yeah. When I did the video file be Ready, where
I made my son rap, I was expressing the anxiety
that comes along with bringing a life into a burning world,
into a chaotic, dangerous environment, it can be nerve wracking.

(49:18):
Then I have to think about conversations that I've had
with my father, and you know, think about my ancestors
and how they chose to carry on. They chose to
have families, that chose to raise children, even under a
British colonial domination, even under slavery, even under all out

(49:43):
war and attack, you know, and like I have to be,
I have to have context to realize that I'm actually
at a wonderful point in history. You know, there's so
much wrong with it, but there's so many opportunities and
so many comforts and so many things that our predecessors

(50:05):
had to do a lot more with a lot less.
So that was what I wanted my son to express
to me, to tell me that, like I said, we
had to survive in America before a gilt Scott died
of heroin. The reason my birth is imperative through me,
we're reworking the narrative. Baby Jesus was merely a vessel

(50:27):
and Mary was a surrogate or something like that, you know,
just to say that, like as hard as it feels now, man,
you know, the ancestors, they had to go through a
lot more, you know what I'm saying, Like they had
to go through so much more, and so I was
using my son's voice to reinforce things to myself. And

(50:53):
I also just believe that by putting certain words in
his mouth is if it's visually, if it's through conversation,
everything to me is just molding him and shaping him.
Because I think I've realized now that like my life

(51:13):
is important, you know, my life is valuable, and I
intend to continue to do many great things in the world,
but my greatest opportunity is him because by shaping him
in you know, just an intentional, very powerful way, he

(51:33):
has so much more possibility to do things that I
could never even imagine, that I could never dream of,
And so I don't have to hold all the weight
of the need to accomplish to produce, you know what
I mean, endlessly it's yo, he can do shit that
I can't even dream of. If I can't, if I
can succeed in like shaping him without some of the

(52:00):
mental blockages and things that I experience, you know that
I work through. That is my cross to bear and
is my journey and feeds me ultimately makes me a
better person. But if I can make him not even
have to deal with those, you know, he'll have his own.
But if I can improve upon me, if I can
take what's already a very successful creation in me and

(52:23):
make a better version, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (52:26):
That he can do shit I can't even get to.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
And how I mean, Man, I feel like my father
is right here. There's like a reason why there's a
space here. My father would have said exactly what VIC

(52:51):
would have said, that of all his accomplishments, the thing
he was most proud of was his son's. So I
wonder you hearing your son say this, How does this
make you feel like amazing?

Speaker 2 (53:05):
You know, I could we all want to live forever,
live very lovely, healthy, helpful life for a long time.
But I wouldn't ask for a better son. What he

(53:25):
has been able to achieve. It doesn't shocked me. I
just see that there's no limit to I just pray
that it stays positive because opportunity, the chance to diverge
into negativity because you're very annoyed, could hit you, and
your course, you get hit because all you can achieve

(53:49):
are gone because you gave those guys a chance to
as a kill you me and you lock you up
whatever and stop you from do what you're doing that
helping the world the way he's doing. I knew when
I heard his hand it's a little boy. I just

(54:10):
knew those things were come in because he was serious
at the age aged two hours. Then you know it's
not a little thing at all. I feel very happy.
I feel accomplished. And I knew that although I have
been accomplished or touched, has many lives, not even a tenth,

(54:35):
a twentieth, a hundredth, you see what I mean. And
there he has touched all those lives completely. It makes
me I can cry joyfully because I actually that the
closest I have come to doing anything like he has done.

(54:56):
Closest was in Primary one, you know, remember one, and
when I was seventeen senior high school, and both the
times I was suspended. Imagine a Primary one kid being suspended,
you know, yeah, because the teacher was cheating. And I

(55:21):
was heir Perston who used to put the money that
we collect on at sale in a vault. But you
also asked me to go for the same money and
buy food for her and I was s little boy,
five six. It didn't make sense to me. I said, now,

(55:42):
this is the money for everybody. You know, you can
tell me money's fungible. You can use money and put
another money there. But it didn't look nice to me.
So I told the guys who were bringing the best
artwork not to sh bring artwork anymore. So they didn't.
The teacher ask 'em why and they told him. I
said that the money from the ass. So I was

(56:05):
suspended for what. Because my father was a community guy,
they let me come back that he knew I did writeing.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
Let me ask you, is there anything that you've always
wanted to tell VIC that you haven't told them?

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Yeah? I have been really I think the details some
details about my great grandfather and we didn't write things
down that much. And my father, you know, yeah, they
migrated a lot. So when my father he finally settled

(56:44):
where which became our hometown, he had his folks have
gone through all the places they've gone through, but I
wish the coast people, so they've gone through wherever they
wish were. They went through I think part of the
Voodoo Land and Benie Dam. They've gone through Togo, which

(57:06):
is part of the Voodoo land, and then they went
through Uh. They settled in those places, their property there still,
and they went through a major pay and then finally
through some I'd done the story of why he moved
out and then came all the way through the age
teenager and never went back again. Yeah, he said a
wild story. They said he was too he was challenging

(57:30):
authority too much, and people didn't understand him. So he
just got mad, took his liberal val on the left.
There were teenagers, and they came back. So we've gone
through places, and in all of these places he could
still have relations and properties if you had time all
the way through it. And my mother father pat now.

(57:56):
But his background is also very different. We carry a
name called Camara and that name is origin traces to Mali,
where Mansa Musa was, where he didn't mean. He didn't

(58:17):
even know this story before he named his kid Masamosells Spirit.
The joining is is not a lie. His great great
grandfather carries a name which is non existent in Ghana.
The only part of Ghana where the name is is
called Larabanga is in the north. The mosque in Lara
Banga is similar to the Muslim Mosk of Mali in

(58:42):
the Sudan, same structure. Oh, they came around sixteenth century
as warriors to engage in some warfare in Ghana Gold
Coast then before gold Coast fort Well warm Back Barrel
and state there and that is the only town in

(59:04):
Ghana where you can find kamaras a town of them.
I found this out because the French house who were talking,
and the minister came around missovate his name was Camara.
Said what means?

Speaker 3 (59:16):
What name is that?

Speaker 2 (59:17):
It's all that? Kamara said, you can't be related? We related,
he said, way, I'm from comforised about you? He said,
a lot of bankers, he said, as a terminate history.
He told me that is the only town where most
of Kamara's settled. So I didn't marry search and I
found that. So he also has connections although I haven't

(59:41):
been there before. I don't sixteen seventeenth century stuff, but
that's a factor. So fundamentally he's a true African, he said.
Linkage is through so many stories. I think most Africans
in Ghana now also have those linkages that most don't know.
They just know I was born here. But mind we

(01:00:03):
are moving with Scotletts.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
And you want to share more details of your family
legacy with your son.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Yeah, that kind of legacy that he inherits were there
are spirits through it that I called him very well.
And I can see that because the survivor through those journeys,
through wars finally and settling in the place that spirit

(01:00:32):
isn't him. In fact, in one of the places, which
is a major hilltop, it is the only place in
Ghana where the shanty mighty Ashanti army lost the battle
with the greatest general. He lost because of the ruggedness.

(01:00:56):
So again his mixed all this for goodness.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
And Vic, is there anything you never told your dad.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
That I do want to tell him? You know, I
just try to.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Well, let me ask you. I mean, you know, because
it's funny. The reason where this question has come from
Adam Vic.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Is that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
I would have said the same thing. VIC would have said. Man,
there's a lot of shit I want to tell my dad,
but there's unspokenness because of how I was raised, how
he was raised. My father had a complicated relationship with
his father, my Wilo, and so therefore my dad never
heard his father say I love you son, damn on

(01:01:46):
me he never heard it, so therefore I never did.
So therefore my dad never really told me and my
brother I love you, son, but he would show us
in his actions and stuff, but we never verbalize. And
as lyricists and songwriters and writers, it's like hard because
we're good with our words, but when it comes to
our fathers, it's hard, you know. And I wonder your

(01:02:10):
thoughts on why that is. And that's why I was
wondering if my dad was here right now and said Papa,
I love you, and he probably wouldn't respond because it
was too hard, but I still would say I love.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
You, right. He had got in love for me, he
got yeah, Yeah, And I kind of really appreciate that,
particularly having the courage. It took good courage to change Chicago. Yeah.
I would have left your guy just to make my
wife have everybody happy. They took a whole lot of courage. Yeah,
And I love the product that came out of the courage. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
Yeah. My dad is. My dad is very unique as
African fathers of his generation come. Like, He's really not
very beholden to rigid ideas that many of his generation are.

(01:03:10):
In that way, I mean, I think his experience with
his father. Beating my uncle so badly drove him completely
away from violent punishment, so that's not something that he
ever engaged in. He's not like Christian, so he's not

(01:03:32):
controlled by those dogmas and those ideas. He's available to
new information always, you know, and he's always open to
changing his perspective if he finds more compelling information that

(01:03:54):
makes him look at something differently. He's very open and
empathetic and loving and never really tried to force me
to do something that just I wasn't gonna do, you
know what I mean. Like I've known people who got
in trouble one time and their like Guanian father sent

(01:04:16):
them to go like at boarding school and the Dominican
Republic for the next four years, Like just sent them away,
you know what I mean. And I think like my
dad he did. He did just show a lot of
courage and like allowed me to learn things the hard

(01:04:37):
way and make mistakes. And I think that what I
do try to tell him and my mom is that
I so deeply appreciate all of their sacrifice and that
I recognized them as have and depth voted their whole

(01:05:02):
life to being parents. You know, They're not like some
parents who miss soccer practices and you know kind of
like let other people raise their kids and you know,
come in in and out of life. Like my father's
always prioritized us, you know, over over everything, you know

(01:05:27):
what I mean. If there's food on the table, like
it wasn't like the man gets the biggest piece of meat,
like he wants me to eat more than he wants
him to eat, and so I uh, I just like
always try to tell him that I appreciate that because
it's taught me how to how to be a man

(01:05:49):
and how to be a human being, but also how
to be a father, you know what I mean. Like
that there's no I don't hold any inherited emotional rigidity
towards my family, you know, maybe because like my family
was incredibly malleable with me. That's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Thank you Ed.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
For your Yeah, thank you too. And I just want
to end that with one sentence that I really really
appreciate and happy about the way he's reaching his son.
The way he's talking to his son that's a grown
bits and that set looking at his face and their
communicating and that strength has been pushed to him. And

(01:06:38):
I guarantee you that he'll be fearless in a positive way.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
I already know.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
Well, we're gonna end this. We end every episode with
something that we call the Sacred Five, where I ask
the guests five questions, you answer and a word or
a sentence. And it's basically ways for folks that are
watching and listening to like take some practical things. So
I'm just gonna ask him. You answer first at and

(01:07:10):
then you go vicy. So the first question is name
three things that make you feel safe, connected and whole.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
A safe connected and whole family. My fifth and belief
in the the organic nature of the relationship between people
and nature. That's my faith is I'm called.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
And my belief that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
He and my kids I headed towards the right direction.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
Three things, Three things that make me feel safe, connected
and whole, connected and whole, meditation, family and mm breath

(01:08:20):
mm which your spirit? Yeah, alright.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
Second question, what song book or prayer brings you back
home to yourself?

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
It's song book or prayer? Just one. I will go
with the l the lyrics of my one of the
lyrics of my big brothers music. Uh, listening to the ancestors,

(01:09:05):
the voice of the ancestors, because it will always bring
you to the right direction. You will make mistakes, and
don't be scared of making mistakes because through those mistakes
you will learn to be powerful. And don't let people

(01:09:27):
tell you you cannot do it. Yeah, those lyrics are
I think, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:37):
Who was that?

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Who's the lyricist?

Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
That's his brother. You can find his music, uh if
you just search Chief Koffee Sammie's high Life.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
It was African high life music legend and it's lyrics.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
It's alright, vegell. Since I'm sitting with African royalty. What
song book or prayer brings you back home to yourself?

Speaker 3 (01:10:09):
Song book of prayer?

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
Man, I got to I got to spook called The
Game of Life and how to Play It that I
read whenever I need to be grounded. The Game of Life.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
Cool. So this next one's a daily ritual. What's one
daily ritual that you do that grounds you? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
Yeah, every day. I I prety down sisters every day,
whether it's a very short one or poor libtion or
just do quiet in bed plus some eyes visualizing. Then
I preach you then for fifty in that day, and

(01:10:49):
I believe I'll get it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
Yeahful daily ritual Yeah, to meditate. That's that's the daily
ritual for I need.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
What's one small action that listeners can take today on
their healing journey?

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Let me hear that again.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
It's like one action that I could take on my
healing journey today.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
The action that you can take.

Speaker 3 (01:11:21):
All the listeners, so just any human being something that
they can do.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Mmm. What's myall auction? I go back to the belief
in the in the pall of dan sisters. Yeah, not

(01:11:50):
the physical action, but the mental election.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
One action listeners can take. I say, yeah, forgive yourself,
you know, forgive yourself. Cool.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
Last question, M what's a one line blessing or quote
that inspires you?

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
Yeah, it's gets I might but I might be repeating myself.
But the positive voice of the ancestors that I hear,
I keep I keep going back to them because as
the end of the day, that what of course me. Yeah,

(01:12:51):
the world is complicated, it can drive you crazy, but
that really kiss me steady. One quote.

Speaker 3 (01:13:03):
I will win, I will persist, I will not be denied.
That's what I like right now.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
Who's that from? You know?

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
Just I don't know, might've been like Neville Goddard or.

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
Something like that I will win, I will persist, I will.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
Not be denied. I will not be denied.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
Wow, Thank you both, Thank you you. Sacred Lessons is
a production my Heart's Michael through our podcast network, Sacred
Lessons Media, and the Prince Group.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
For more of your favorite

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
Shows, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.