March 30, 2026 • 61 mins
In this episode of Sacred Lessons, host Mike de la Rocha sits with his brother Yancy "YD" Comins, co-founder of Hands In The Soil, for a powerful conversation on men’s healing, brotherhood, and the medicine of gathering in community. Rooted in their shared experience building the men’s circle at DENA Heals, this conversation explores why so many men are hurting, and how nature, ritual, and honest connection can help us return to ourselves. Together, Mike and Yancy reflect on what happens when men are given space to breathe, to feel, and to heal in community.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What are the cycles father's passed down that sons are left.
What if being a man was holding it all together
and learning how to let go. This is a space
to find the power to heal and transform. I'm Mike
Dela Rocha. Welcome to sacred lessons. Some men are taught
(00:23):
to be strong, few men are taught how to heal.
Welcome to sacred lessons. I'm Mike Dela Rocha. Today's conversation
is deeply personal for me because I'm sitting with a
brother that I've walked alongside. One of the most sacred
spaces of my life are men's healing Circle. Yancey Cummins
(00:44):
is the co founder of Hands in the Soil, a
community wellness organization dedicated to cultivating healthy habits in spiritual
well being through connection to nature, culture, and each other.
For years, Yancey has been build building spaces where people,
especially men of color, can reconnect with their bodies, their breath,
(01:07):
and the land itself together. We've watched something magical happen
when men gather in circle. Men who arrive guarded, silent,
unsure slowly, slowly begin to speak, to breathe, to remember
that healing isn't something we do alone. And today we're
(01:31):
going to talk about why men are hurting and why brotherhood,
nature and ritual may be the most important medicine we have.
My man, beautiful, So like I'm just throwing it all
out because like we do. At first, I just want
(01:52):
to say how honored and privileged I am. You've been
a relationship that has come into my life, and you
and I are both very intentional about who we let
into our space. And one I want you to know
because I know that of you, that I want you
to know that I'm just grateful that you allowed me
(02:15):
to enter into your space, your home, your family, and
I've gotten so much from you. Man. You know, we've
been co facilitating these men's circles for a year now
every other week, and I just I've learned as much
from you about how to be present in my own
healing and our collective healing than anyone else. And you're
(02:38):
just like, bro, we'll get into but you have this
ability to channel and to meet man where they are
and to say, you know what. We may have had
this agenda, but nah, we're going to do this and
I want you to know I love you and I'm
so grateful for this conversation and this is like a
continuation of many conversations.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So much love for you, bro, thank you, just just
very grateful. I want to pour some for the ancestors
if this will this yeah, well, time just to make that,
make that connection, this sacred connection to all the spirits
that God is here and that kept us here. Man,
give thanks so much, thanks, listen, thank you, bro. Yeah,
it's a mirror, as you know, it's a mirror. It's
(03:22):
a mirror that I'm happy to look in because I
see parts of myself that I otherwise would be maybe
not looking so deeply at through your eyes and through
our work.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So yes, good, thanks, Well I want to jump right in.
Well actually if you can give the cliff notes version,
but I know the antie of now yeah, but how
did you come here to be the antsie that you are?
The unfolding ante obviously, but what is your life path?
And how did you get right here? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, many twists and turns, as everybody else, I think.
For me, it's born born in Pasadena and lich really
have and now currently raising children on the same street
I was born on as a very serendipitous and blessed
kind of cross section in my life. So that's where
I'm at now. But you know, music, music, I like
(04:14):
to say, you know, music raised me and nature saved me.
That's that's that's my biggest thing. You know, I found
God in the garden and I can skip all the
things before then. But I was a hard head, you know,
always always looking curious, but always but trying to fit in,
trying to fit into circles that I was probably not
(04:34):
meant to fit in, and kind of suppressing my own
my own divine alignment with the Creator. So when I
met music, that kind of brought me through all the
tough times, the ups and downs personal life, you know,
all that type of stuff. But when I met nature
and when I was really at my lowest point fifteen
(04:58):
twenty years ago, Yeah, my mom from Louisiana went to
a community garden planning the planting the bean seed and
came back three three days later seeing it sprout. And
for some reason that was like that was a spark
that led me through a whole nother pathway. And so
that you know, believer it or not, led me into meditating, meditating,
(05:19):
and I'm not an avid meditator, like I like many
folks may think, but my own ways of meditating come
through spirit and music and channeling. But yeah, just let
me down the path. And I followed that path because
God was calling and I'm gonna just jump to it.
Here we are now still figuring, still figuring out how
to weave it, you know. But I will say fatherhood
(05:40):
also brought me to a deeper layer of what this
life really means. And seeing a reflection of my kids
is like, oh okay, this is a special chance. Life
is so cleaning up my acts and just following the
spirit weaving so funny.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Like you talked about mirrors, I probably would it said
the same thing. Music save me, nature slash ritual healed me,
and fatherhood completed me. And in that probably ordered and
cyclical nature. But I will say the nature piece you,
(06:20):
I mean, you co founded hands in the soil, and
so much of our healing has to be earth based
because we're earth based. People talk to those that don't
understand just the power of nature itself and the soil
and like how you saw like the germination of the
seed and what it did something within you. But why
(06:40):
is that so powerful and important?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I mean, think, I think, think of our ancestors. What's
the one thing we all have in common, right outside
of we all you know, piss and poop, you know,
eat and enjoy music, is we all really Nature provides
and we all lean heavily on nature for our lives.
So I think that's just a common denominator. But when
(07:03):
I think about how it's how what it can do,
what it's done for me, and how I can see
it show up in other people's lives, especially in the
urban setting. Right in these urban streets, is bro that
tapped that shit tapped into me something that I did
not know existed, which is how to care for something
that wasn't human, you know, how to be in relationship
(07:27):
with silence, how to be in relationship with like the
subtleties of what's going on, you know, because trying to
fit in, you know, in this world it's a area,
or in this where I grew up, it's a lot
of boldness. The bigger you are, the badder you are,
the stronger you are. But you know, nature shows up
in just a completely different way. And when I say nature,
I'm speaking about all elements, you know, from the waters
(07:49):
to the mountains to the waters that run down the mountains.
Everything is just like it's a cold you know, and
it's a language. And jumping into that language he me
meet not just parts of myself and be and be
in surrendering kind of soft in that space, and it
also meets my ancestors and seeing the strength of nature.
(08:10):
You know. So I think it has I think it
will always. You know, the earth will always be a
place for us to give deep reverence too, but in
this particular time we need to be caring for it
in just a way. And once we put our hands
on the soil together collectively, we're really touching our own souls.
(08:30):
So that's kind of like the you know, that's that's
the metaphor within hands on the soil. It's yes, it's
hands in the earth and the dirt, but it's really
the hands and ourselves and our souls and really doing
the work within ourselves. And hits is owe to the music. Right.
What I was striving to make was hi ty as
it hits, you know what I'm saying. So it's all weave.
It's all weaves. Yeah, And let me ask you have.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
High profound impact I know in so many men's lives,
just that I know in the past year. But what
called you to do the healing work with other men
and specifically men of color, like and why? And obviously
nature is a part of that, and the hits is
a part of them, But what was the.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Calling mushrooms the hongos. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, I.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Feel like, but it's funny, right, because that medicine is
ancestral to all of our lineages and we all come
from the content of Africa, and there's different angles in
different parts of the world, but they all serve a
benisonal portal purpose.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, it's the pathway. It when I when I when
I journey with the medicine long time ago, it really
was whispering like men, something about men aren't showing up.
And that's just how it gave it to me. You know,
I wasn't trying to discriminate men aren't showing up, you know,
or on men show up. And I don't know if
it because I did it around all women, but that
(09:53):
energy was potent and then that just kind of comes
back to me. And it wasn't until I started working
with the landing and seeing like dads with their kids
in the community garden, like you know, just pushing their
kids or just not too many, but every so often,
and I would just offer them like, yo, bro, I
got you know, you want some food. They proun't know
(10:13):
if they made it or not. Could you know? Beat
they probably some of them didn't know what it is,
but they was all grateful. And I could see that
they were they were unguarded because they were with their seed,
you know, and I was coming with reverence, you know.
And so it wasn't a I just think we we
we when we mix, you know, when we mix our
tenderness with our strength, bro, we get something that's that
(10:34):
that the supportal for entry run and collective. Because I
feel like we're all on islands sometimes, you know, and
it's it's not until we connecting a deeper way where
we could see like there's a there's a bridge between
these islands that we stay on. Sometimes it's secluded spaces
where we're taking care of just our family and our
media home.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So and what what do you in your experience? What's
our what's leading us man to feel like to be
these islands amongst ourselves?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And I wish I could throw that question at you.
I feel like you got to answer for it. I
get capitalism, bro, Like I mean, it's a part of it.
I think it's a strive. We get so focused. It's like,
when I was just thinking about this, it's like when
a lion or lioness is hunting, right, I feel like
(11:25):
that's actually the most vulnerable because I saw my cat
hunting a bird the other day. And my cat is
very active and like Hella, it's kind of like a
scaredy cat, like she don't get hit because she always
aware in a run before she gets attacked. But she
locked in on that bird and was just creeping. And
I'm like, bro, if we was out here in the
(11:45):
wilderness and the lion was doing and if some other
predator would come along, that's the perfect time because they're
so focused and locked in, that's all they're worried about.
And I think as men, we kind of stay in
that consistent we're focused, we're drink even we got to
get these goals, and so we're probably more vulnerable than
we think, even though we're so focused, because we're not
(12:07):
taking in the full vibration of what we're what's around us.
We're not considering others. Were kind of in this far
culture where we're will burning, will burn another person just
to get to where we need to get to. And
so I think when we you know, we we pour water.
We pour water, just like we did today. We pour
water on our on our on ourselves, we pour water
on other men figuratively speaking, to help kind of bridge
(12:30):
that gap and cool the fiery energy that we have,
you know, because that shit is good, it's it's it's healthy,
but it's it's so much we don't we kind of
disregard and put ourselves in these secluded spaces just so
we can reach our goals as individuals, but not as
a collective community. So we kind of put that on
a back burner.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And what are some of the practices rituals you've seen
that help men bridge that gap with each other and
with our ancestors and the land.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
What are some things The circle that we hear every
third every other Thursday. Circle circle, It's a sacred shape.
You say it every every close you know, just the
sacredness of the circle. I think that's just one of
the number one points. And I think if you take
if you take away the circle, and you put two
men in a space to where the elements are against them,
(13:22):
then you see folks join forces, you know, it's it's
then you see the rise up and how we can
support each other, you know. And I think that's what
we well hopefully we see now is no division between
some skin color, between some ethnicities, but really the joining
of like there's one common there's a there's a threat
in order to you know, in order to survive that,
(13:45):
we got a band together. And I think those are
the two ways, you know, And of course you got
other other things that that people come together on. But
I think the healthy waves are circle circle. We're talking circles,
you know, and just being creative in the way we
pursue life. You know. Yeah, sometimes it takes roll bumps,
(14:05):
I think for us. I mean that's how we came together.
You know, the fires brought us together, you know why not.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
So I was gonna it's funny or like finishing my
sentence because the fire. I was gonna say a couple
things about the fire. One is, you know, you, as
much as anyone I know, is very mindful and cognizant
of all the elements and how we are not judging anything.
So when the fires are erupted, my elders were saying,
(14:34):
Mike don't blame the fire because was it the fire
or was it the wind that took the embers, or
was it the land because the land itself wasn't being
caretaked the way we were supposed to. And he was like,
the answer is, actually, it's none of that, it's all
of it, and what is our role in that? But
also it's been so profound because most of the men
(14:55):
impacted in Alta Dina happened to be black and brown man.
And it's been so beautiful to model you as a
black mammy, as a Chicano holding space and like we
you may see us as this shell, but we are spirits.
But the fact that we are of multiple communities and
(15:17):
invites others be like, oh okay, and that's where I think
spend the magic sauce. And so I wonder if you
can elaborate a little bit more in this moment in
time when society wants to divide us on different lines,
whether it's race, which is a construct, or other things.
You know why that's been such a powerful invitation.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I've always you know, we're just talking. You know, my
neighbors who are like my second family. I grew up well,
you know, from Jalisco Mako. I feel like one of
the things that I see often that I stand on,
which is black power, you know, unity of the of
of black folks in America and then also just a diaspora.
(16:03):
And then I feel like we stop there thinking, like
thinking like that's the definition of like power and unity
is when we all gather. You know, we've been oppressed,
all of us have been oppressed. And I think once
we start to kind of unravel, we can see, bro,
I can learn so much from you, and then we
(16:23):
start to connect these non differences, these connection points where
we have so much more in the common than we
have in difference. And then we start to realize, like,
whiteness is a construct, you know, if we're going to
take it there, whiteness is it's not even about a race.
It's a construct. It's a part of capitalism to feed
the machine. Something for folks to be butting heads on
(16:46):
at the bottom, right when all we gotta do is
realize that like together we are really much more connected,
you know. And I think, just like with the kids
and when I used to be in a garden man,
when you take folks out of their element and you
drop them somewhere where no one has been. You see
the hardest You see the hardest dude be jumping away
(17:09):
from the bugs and the spiders and ship and trying
to still act you know, hard and tough, but like
it's it's it's interesting when it just shows us how
much you know, we're so locked into our spaces we
forget about like man, we are connected like and you know,
it's like the circle. We got to have each other's back.
I got to be able to see over your shoulder
like mine and be able to communicate. So the spaces
(17:31):
that we create help that communication, and that communication is
a gateway back to remembering, and that remembrance connects us
to all of life, which we can put the way
to the subtle differences that have kind of been thrown down,
you know, our throats to be mad at each other about.
So yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Let me ask you something that I immediately gravitated towards
your spirit, which was gravitating towards mind. But we feel
comfortable in multiple spaces that folks may not feel comfortable. Man. Yeah,
and we're always proximate to our relatives that are still
(18:14):
on their own, like we're both healing. But you know,
maybe suspect to put it lightly in terms of how
they see the world or how they see their role.
And for those that society oftentimes wants to label or
cast off, whether it's like, you know what, you're a
sexist and boom, boom boom, how do you reach those men?
(18:36):
And what do you tell? You know, anyone that's listening
really like, don't give up on our brothers, especially those
are are wilding out. But there's a reason why they're
wilding out. And I wonder if you could elaborate some
more on that.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, I feel like there's just there's just kind of
a when you get to a certain age, you're a man, right.
We got these these powerful ages that we've defined, which is,
you know, a lot of times sixteen is a part
of it, and you have eighteen twenty one, which is
these strong kind of lines where you cross that and
all of a sudden you're a fucking man. And it's like,
(19:13):
you know, but a lot of us are obviously telling somebody,
a lot of us are i would say adult boys
in certain ways, and a lot of psychologically psychologically, we've
never been supported, We've been tamed and trained into kind
of staying in that space, or some of our best
(19:35):
memories were in high school or college, and so we
want to live in that space. Or we never realized
how to treat ourselves. And so I think for everybody,
it's just like, let's look at all of our blind spots.
Don't let's not cast a stone. Let's just look at
the blind spots. And of course, if somebody is not
healthy for our personal space, we got to get away
from it. But to shame and blame them, you know, well,
(19:58):
you know there's also direct harm is never good. You know,
let me just say it off rep But when we're
talking about people who have when we're talking about a
system that creates you know, kind of products, which those
products are, you know, almost call them like uh, you
can almost come like viruses. They get on us and
then we start to function like the product wants us to.
(20:21):
And I just feel like we need that healing. There's
a point in our lives where we need ourselves to
be mirrors. So when we sit in these circles, you know,
the hommy I won't say any names, but you know
the Asian, the Asian hommy who's ten fifteen years older
than me, the younger black hommy that you kind of
(20:42):
and we're all like relating to each other. It's like
we can see each other, and when I go home,
I know that damn okay. I would have probably been
holding this on and had a lot more rage and anger,
but I was able to just put it out there
and also see or hear somebody else say some shit
I would have said, and it's and it's relatable. So
I think those the relations to all of our relations
(21:03):
we need to find harmony. And if we're holding grudges
because these people are wild and trying to find their
way and have not been welcome into a healing space,
or they've been the healing spaces avoided around their environment,
you know, we basically are we're basically acting as colonizers
want us to act. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
We acting like the like the way that colonizers want
us to act. And I think one of the first
things that the colonizers did, both in the the Americas
and the content of Africa was rip us from our
ancestral practices in the land itself, when we never saw
(21:49):
the land as a sense of ownership. It was a relationship.
And this past holiday season he gave me a book
that I've read multiple times, but you know you always
books find you at the time you need them, and
it was The Healing Wisdom of Africa, and I was like,
(22:10):
this is so profound because I needed to be reminded
once again in reading that. And well, I think I
love you so much is because you see the the
importance of ancestral ritual and ceremony in our healing as
a community. And I like, how did you land on
that or like, what was that that made you just
(22:33):
it's not a oh, check the box, it's just who
we are.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I might have to sit
on that, but I do know Pops, my dad, Big
Jake John Cummins, definitely a key factor. Right. I went
to a Bible study Tuesday, Thursday Sunday. I'm like, boy,
you know was in the choir from longer than I
was born. You know what I'm saying, so passed away
(22:57):
in twenty fifteen. But the the powerful thing is his
spirit is continuously so strong. A big dude, six y three, big,
you know, way more hair than me on my face,
just very very soft and loving and also you know,
he couldn't be messed with at the same time, I
(23:17):
learned a lot about spirit through that, you know, because
his dedication to what he believed in was you know,
was was apparent. His voice and music was apparent. He
loved music. We connected on music. And so there's aspects
of like seeing another masculine being that is now on
the other side that I feel like for me. And
(23:42):
I've seen him go through his struggles. You know, I've
seen him. You know, I've seen him pick up a
bottle many times, many times in my young age, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
And.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
You know, seeing him on the other closer to when
he was closer to his transition point not you know,
figure out how to fight them demons and put the
put it away, you know what I'm saying. And I
just feel like that's the beauty of spirit is we
always have a choice, and you know, I don't have
(24:14):
I don't have an answer for that. I just think
that my pops and just seeing who I am, just
like when I deep down tap into who I am,
it's something else talking to me within me, you know,
And it's never let me wrong when I listen. It's
only when I you know what I mean, It's only
when I try to act like as if it's not
(24:36):
there is when I start running into trouble or act
as if I'm the one that's creating all this. You know,
it's a creator, and it's a it's a it's a
free will blueprint if you will to this world. And
I feel like just following that is spirit led. Just
following that free will blueprint and spirit led, you know, and.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
You're talking about listening to the voice inside your head,
your intuition was the one that if you can learn
to trust that and follow that, that's the spirit. That's
the shade that you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, Will said, I think that's a great start. I
think that's a great I think that's why meditation is
so powerful in whatever form it takes. You know, we
we create music, and you know, the music that we
both creates, it's powerful and I do a lot of
channeling and almost like agrill through that music. But it
(25:38):
can come in many different ways. But yes, shad is
so strong when we shut the fuck up and listen.
And I feel like that's that's what prayer is also
to me, is like hey stop talking for a minute
and listen. You know, especially in these technology days, I
was just talking to one of the homegirls, and she
(25:59):
was telling me a lot about what's what she saw
on me, and I was just being quiet and listening,
and I was like, yeah, she's right on the money.
You know. So a lot of times just learning about
myself through being quiet, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, that's funny. I was going to ask you, what
is your definition of pray since you're wearing a shit
since pray?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yeah, man, somebody told me my life was a prayer
and I was like, I didn't understand that. I didn't
understand that. I was like, was it my life for
all lives? But yeah, I think intention intentional. Whatever we
do with intention becomes sacred if it's with reverence and
intention and not in a destroying act. And I think
(26:43):
if we aren't in the spaces between when we're creating intention,
we have to find something within us to create that intention.
And I feel like that's the prayerful space. It's the
space within, like within that intention and that action, like
what are we doing right when we think about something
or when something comes over us. It's not always just
(27:06):
when you know, Dear God, I need something, hit the
knees and pray. It's in those spaces where we are creating,
co creating with the creator, and I feel like that's
the prayer. It's like, if we're in co creation, if
following our mood, if following our path, then the prayers,
that's the prayer. Very much like the procession, that was
a prayer that got answered, you know what I mean,
(27:29):
through all of us coming together and bursting something.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
So and let me ask you your how was your
relationship with your father impacts your relationship with your children.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I only wish my dad could have meet my son
because it's just like he would be laughing so much.
You know, my pops would never I don't really remember
my pop's ever yelling at me and the things that
I saw my pops. There's some things I didn't fuck,
I didn't like. There's some things that I loved, and
I know the things that I didn't like, I do
(28:01):
the opposite. So for me, I've yelled at my son
more than my dad ever yelled at me. And my
son is only eight, and so I just realized, like
there's a lot that he gave and game because yelling
don't really help my son. Maybe some you know it
sometimes it feels like it helps, but then he just
(28:21):
get fired up back, you know, and it's like my
dad had something. So I'm still learning that. I'm still
learning how was how his how he chose to raise
me with my mother is affecting, you know, my relationships.
And I will say that I was the fifth of
his child and the youngest. He had four by Mama,
(28:45):
Daddy and his first wife, and so I came like
shit sixteen years later, you know what I'm saying. So
I'm sure he had a gang of wisdom. I don't
know what he did with the Yeah, yeah, yeah, you
probably figured it out like man, you know, like you
gotta do what you gotta do, because yeah, my brothers
we was you know, they was they came out here
from Illinois, you know Illinois and that that you know,
(29:07):
some of them was cripping. Some of them were they
got into some things, you know, and shout out to
my brothers. Yeah it's yeah, I'm sure he learned lessons.
So I don't have Let's come back in twenty years
and we're gonna have that conversation as elders and see
what it see what it is, and.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Let me ask you a question. What what's a taboo
subject around masculinity, manhood that you don't think we're talking
enough about right now?
Speaker 2 (29:37):
How much we're hurting. Can I keep going, Yeah, how
much we're hurting, how much we're isolated. The they're yearning
for more, you know, they're yearning for connection. I think
that goes with isolation. The I mean, I'm sure that
(30:00):
you're I'm sure you know, seeing a couple of the
podcasts and I know folks be dropping bars, and I
feel like there's a lot of disassociation with like just
connecting with a man one to one like this. You know,
what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Dissociation that we're not taught how to do that.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
We're I don't think we're taught how to do that.
And I think I mean from from from from our
age group and what we what we experienced. This shit
is gay And excuse my language for saying that, but
like that's what was primed in in in my mind
to be this close to somebody or to be able
to touch you and be like, bro, you know what
(30:40):
I'm saying, And just it's like, what's going on with
what's wrong with y'all? Was more of a joke, you
know what I mean? So I think we a lot
of the men that are around my age, we we
have taken ourselves out of that space as earlier in
our lives to be fitting in or meet the status quo,
and we've never returned by to that space. So there's
(31:01):
a lot of like welcoming space that's ready for us
to return to that we're just not quite sure how
to go forward and step in, you know. Yeah. And
I think just how we how we how we show
up with our children as maybe still young young adults,
are parts of ourselves not fully matured. I think that's
(31:23):
a big one too. I'll stop there. And just in healing,
healing in general, I think is a big is a
big it's a taboo, like you know, so, so we
give away a power when we're when we when we
when we step into healing.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Well, we're not talking enough abouts how much pain men
are holding. And then also the way that we've been
conditioned to think that being in an intimate relationship with
the other man is somehow a threat to your manhood.
And then the third thing is just that healing is
not gonna demasculate you. If anything's gonna make you stronger
(32:04):
in your vulnerability, is that fat?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah? That's it. That's it, one hundred percent. And one
more thing I would say is health. I mean I
think I think a lot, well not one hundred percent,
but I think a lot of the time we don't
talk about health enough as men. Two men, you know,
(32:28):
we all got prostates where some of us have still
got it. Prostate cancer is one of the biggest threats
to men, especially black and brown.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Man, Why do you think it's so hard for us
to do that, because it's absolutely you know, I'm sharing
with you when I want my cousins for a weekend.
It was just us, man, and I felt shameful to
ask some of these questions. But then I started asking
if if you Mike or have a book around fucking
healing man, and you can't even talk to your own
primos about it, Like what does that say? I was like, no, no,
(32:58):
get over the fear the shame, and ask have you
guys got a prostate check?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Or why is it that you know two of the
men there my cousins, you know both of our fathers
have prostate issues, and then never talk to us about it.
To your point, and we're replicating that same silence, like
where does that come from? Why do you think it's
so hard for us just to talk about our bodies
(33:25):
or you know what I mean, like me talking about
prostate cancer or taking shots of testosterone. That doesn't make
me less of a man. That's actually helping me be
a healthier version of who I am? But why is
it so hard?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
No, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta figure
that out. I will say, I think fear is what
makes a man feel less manly. So who wants to
feel scared about some shit that they kind of can't
feel like they can't control?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Right?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Obviously we can talk about the Western medical you know,
the system as a whole pharmacology, and that it also
has its effect. I'm just like, they're not gonna do
nothing for me. You know, a test is a test.
It'll do something for you. But how do we show
up and handle that? Right? If you get some news
you don't want to hear, especially with a whole bunch
(34:18):
of stuff already on our backs, that could break us,
or it can make us, or it can make you.
It could break you down to build you up, you know,
And I saw, I think I saw so. Just another
point I would speak of is death. We now we don't.
We don't. We don't talk about death like that. Now,
(34:39):
I will say, in some cultures they do talk about death,
and that's powerful. They don't see death as you're dead
and you know, all done, flatline. It's a gateway into
another and I feel like that's an Then we ritual
and being closer to people, especially as we get older,
no matter how old we are, death and kind of
(35:01):
unraveling what that concept is that what they feed it
at us to be. It could be beautiful because you know,
I got homies that focus on anti aging, and which
is beautiful. You know, I got homies that focused on
but you see, the whole world is built around youth
and keeping that young, keeping that young energy. It's why
the homies out here wearing clothes too tight, you know,
per forward those days and trying to show up. It
(35:24):
looks bad, but they're trying to reach their reaching for
something that left them and not stepping into uh to
what's coming for them. Francis Weller said, Oftentimes, I don't
know if you heard it from somewhere else. I said,
we turn around and walk backwards into death. We don't
want to see it. We want to look back at
(35:44):
at what was what was? So I feel like for me,
that's I feel like that's when I think about myself,
not thinking about it. I think about that aspect, right,
What do I want to think about dying? Like, especially
as I get older and it becomes more prevalent that
there's a cross roads somewhere in my future.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
What do you would you tell those men that are
afraid being too vulnerable intimate because it's a threat to
what they've been taught is their masculine identity. How do
you invite them into something like a relationship like we have.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Oh no, you know what, you know what I think
it is. And we haven't done this yet. You've been
doing it with sacred lessons as you've been going around
and tapping into different communities. I think, I know it's
a podcast you got to ask me, but I would
I would shoot that question back at you. But I
think it's you know, it can't start by hey, man,
come to come to a man's circle. They gonna be like, bro,
(36:43):
what you know, like just gonna sit around and talk
to other men, Like what for what I got? Women?
You know what I mean, especially those without whatever their
their their preferences, those without other partners. You know, it's
just like I'm trying to hit the town. I think
meeting folks were at is crucial. Man, just just just
be a homie. Be a solid homie first, Be a
(37:05):
solid homie. Show up. Somebody's gonna ask you my homie
who bless his heart. I hope he's doing a lot
better now, you know. He was like, man, how did
you fuck? What is he asking? How did you transform?
Or something like that. It was like a it was
like he looked at me because he know me from
high school. It's just you know, just different. He was like, man,
you really transform and he's like how did you do it?
(37:26):
And I never answer for him. But I think just
meeting people where they're at, it's it's crucial. It's like yeah,
because otherwise then we're looking down on folks and like,
you know, come to my layer. You know you will
learn a thing. The guru culture is dead, that shit
is over with, and so I think it's just meeting
people or that act. So let's go out and bounce about.
(37:48):
Let's let's go kick a soccer ball, let's go do
we We don't need a drink and if we you know,
there's there's there's things we need to stay away from.
But invite the homie into eating better, go work out
with him, you know that that might be all the
therapy y'all need. That's it. Go to the water, Let's
go to the beach. It's beautiful women at the beach,
(38:08):
you know, and men whatever, you know, all of it
is at the beach. You know, Let's be there, you know.
I think that's I think that's the way for me.
I feel like that's that's it. I got longtime homies,
but like people that I just met, we just seem
to have like that connection. That's we've already done a
little bit of some some of that work, and we're
not as rough for around certain edges and we're able
(38:29):
to like tap in. I hate having shallow conversations. That
shit is like I get awkward, I'll start moving and
fissing it a lot. So I think it's also just
finding your tribe, finding the people that you feel seen around, yeah,
and sticking there, you know, and offering something, even if
it's just gratitude.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
So yeah, definitely double down on everything you just shared,
which is meaning folks here they are without judgment, and
I know that's the hard part in this judgmental society
we live in. And and I don't got my shit
figured out. We always say that, like, and I'm still
(39:07):
the work in progress and just in the invitation just
join me. And ironically all the things that I don't
even like the word toxic masculinity because we're all masculine
a feminine. It's not toxic. It's our behaviors maybe. But
you know the way that folks are recruited into extreme ideologies.
(39:31):
People talk about the mamosphere a lot. And I don't
throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's another construct.
But they always talk about, oh, you know, we met
them at a UFC match or we met them at
this and okay, well, if that's where we are, why
don't we go there?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
You know?
Speaker 1 (39:51):
And and and and also what I've what I love
about what we've been able to continue to co create
together is it only takes out one time or a man
who's suspect I don't know about this healing circling and see,
but they come in it's like they're dipping their toe
in the water. And then they're like, why haven't I
(40:11):
been in the water the whole time? And it's you know,
I think our role is really just to create spaces
of curiosity and it may not work, and that's okay,
another space will. I think what I've learned from you
and just others is like, just don't give up, because
everything around us has given up on us. So if
(40:32):
we're gonna do that, So how different are we to
the oppressors that you were mentioning earlier? You know, just
in well in closing, like, what, given your decades of
unfolding experiences, what is your biggest hope for your son
(40:58):
and the next generation of man coming up.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
It's tough. That's a tough It's a touchy and tough one.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Man.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
You know. It's like, yeah, because my son is different too.
You know. It's like a lot of the kids, a
lot of the homies kids play sports. He my boy
playing back baseball now. But he has this arts, artfulness,
you know, and this tenderness. He's still coming into his
(41:25):
his form, you know, like really like scanning the earth
is not really something that he's like full harleheartedly doing.
He's still in his full journey. So I'm like, man,
you gotta protect that, like not harden it, not stripping
away cultivated, you know, that tenderness and and his and
(41:46):
his and his strength within that tenderness like all of it,
you know, So provide him the protection that he needs.
But don't stone don't smother him, you know, like let
his fire like actually grow them in spaces where he
feels seen. And then also like give him that courage
that he might not have to edge him to his
(42:10):
own edge and find newness. Because I think a lot
of are just a lot of the hommies, the young
hummies right now. They have the same thing we have,
but they got it deeper. Because technology is such a
beautiful contraption. It's got two heads. It could serve you,
or it it can mark you slowly, slowly, you never know,
(42:35):
and be draining your power until you're trusting in a
certain machine or a certain you know, are you giving
all your leverage and power into this what me either
people think about you or what's something spits back out
at you, and so like really trying to navigate that.
I think that's the biggest for me. That's the biggest
thing right now. So that he can have a chance
(42:55):
to put two feet in, two feet on the soil
and stand tall and make his decisions, you know, confidently
confident decisions and know how to protect themselves when needed.
Everything else is on him. Everything else is like you know,
you gotta you gotta let him. You feel me flapped
till he almost hit the ground and hopefully fly and
(43:17):
you know, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
I think what we always say in our circle is,
you know, there's a difference between ritual and routine. And
we as man we have a lot of our routines.
A lot of us wake up and we go work
out and then we do or you know, do our thing,
and that's a routine. The power of rituals we have
no control, that's right. And the power of fatherhood is
(43:41):
we don't have control. And I think when we yell
at our kids is because we think we can control,
and they come in with their own medicine and their
own lache. And the hardest part for me is being
able to accept and not project what I want my
son to do or be. Like I was a jock,
and there was a long time when that was like
(44:03):
when you say tenderness and artistic thing. My son was
more in the video games and doing other things, and
I was like, beautiful and I would see him play
certain sports, and I'd be like, oh, man, I didn't
want I was trying to protect him from what society
would do. But at the same time he was teaching me,
you don't need to protect me, Like I'm comfortable. Why
aren't you comfortable? You know what I'm saying. So, and
(44:27):
I'm still learning, and I think that's the journey of
this new humanness. I know it's a show by masculinity
and wellness, but I guess the real sacred lesson is
that the real definition of manhood is that there is
no manhood, there is no control, that fear is a construct,
and that if we can let go of our expectations
(44:50):
and our beliefs about what we're supposed to be and
just be who we are, that's actually the definition of freedom,
liberation spirit, because then we're boundless and we're able to
fulfill whatever our life purpose is. Here.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yeah, I would say just to that the liberates that
the sacred lesson definitely is what you just shared, and
the liberation piece is like that's it, Like that's it,
like follow follow it, just follow it, you know. And
the shame and the blame is just distractions. It's just
(45:24):
it's it's those pieces you know, people call you know,
demons devil like, those are the real things that we
have to we have to work with. And so allowing
ourselves to grace to grow, you know, whatever way that
looks like. I think that goes back to your point
on how others might view it's just allow yourselves to
grace to grow, get away from what's harmful, continue to
(45:46):
step forward, ask questions, ask for help, lean on the
people you love and make sure you're not getting burned
by the same people you know, and let God handle
the rest. You know, that ritual part of huge In
some way, we find our way into ritual spaces that
that help us grow internally.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
So yeah, before I go on to the Sacred five,
I want to ask you one question, because you kind
of brought it up. Why do you think it's so
hard for us meant to ask for help?
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Vulnerability feels like weakness. Yeah, individuality, pulling myself foot on
my own bootstraps feels like success. And I think the grooming,
(46:53):
the grooming has been groomed. We've been groomed, and so yeah,
I'm exploring that. I'm exploring somebody just tell me, like
you don't got to do it all by yourself today today.
So I'm like, yeah, you're right, you know, asking for
asking for help. What happens when somebody says no, am
I gonna flare up and we'll fuck you in or
like close up and cry. So like, yeah, I think
(47:15):
I don't know if we are. That's one of those again,
going back to health, I don't know how much health.
I don't know how much we've worked out that space of, like,
you know, asking for help and receiving the help that
people are willing to give, no matter if it's this
or that you know, I don't I don't know. I
(47:36):
gotta I gotta go, I gotta go deeper within on
that one.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Well, it's interesting because what I took from what you
just said was we're afraid to ask a lot of
us man are afraid to ask for help because we're
afraid that the person we ask in that vulnerable state
will not know how to or we'll say no, and
then what would that do to our ego? Would that
do to our ability to then ask someone else? Oftentimes
(48:02):
we won't. Yeah, And and that's the part that I
think it's hard because we as a society, both men, women,
non binary folks, we're conditioned the thing that men are
supposed to have it all figured out, and if we don't,
then we're not a man. And if you do ask
for help, then you're being vulnerable, and vulnerable vulnerability is
(48:24):
to sign a weakness. And it's like everything I just
said is a complete and utter.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Life facts ship when I'm finding out.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
And it's hard because we can't tell someone who to be.
That's not even our role to tells someone how to be.
But we can just share what we're doing. But what
I've seen is those men in my life that are
the most vulnerable are actually the men I aspire to
become closer to.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Yeah, yeah, and I would say the same, bro, I'll
say that's why we're here together, you know what I'm saying,
figuring it out because the other stuff is it's a
stagnation point. You only even go so far and shout
out to the homies. I've seen my I've seen some
of my brothers, you know, and and and just people
in general. They got the tenacity. You know that no
doesn't mean it's a no for them. It just means
(49:16):
it wasn't the right time for that person. And a
lot of times we equate that to marketing or equate
that to a business mindset, and I think it's super
healthy for that finance to be able to be financially successful.
You've got to drop in a gang of nose to
be able to get to a couple of yeses. But yeah,
if we stop knocking on the door because of a no,
(49:36):
or we curl ourselves in.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Me and me and my partner said, you know, don't
block your blessings because if you put a if you
put a if you put a shield up, nothing's getting
in but alsome nothing's going out. So you're just in
a shell, you know. So yeah, one hundred percent help.
Help is huge when we go to ceremony uh and
sit with the medicine, want to in the school lot
(50:01):
of practice with the first thing before we move any
further is practicing how to actually say help out loud
literally so that in the conscious mind we've said it
in a close proximity and it's something that is is
(50:21):
in our purview of being able to say again. And
still people still people get stuck, you know what I'm saying,
Because yeah, another time we can talk about that deeper.
I think that's I think that's a big question. Why
is it so hard to ask for help is a
huge question.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Yeah, you just stopped yourself. Why about the asking for
the help you because that's going to go down the
rabbit hole. Well, I do what I will take from this,
which is so profound that anyone. What I love about
the podcast space, especially for man, is like no one
will know that you're listening to podcasts.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
You can be listening to the hits, you listening to
the Yante Cummins, you can listen to Mike whoever, So
they might think you're listening to music and you're actually
listening to this conversation that the yantsy comings and saying
you know what, why don't you practice saying out loud
I need help?
Speaker 1 (51:16):
So when the day does come, it's not foreign or
strange to you. But you have trained your mind and
your spirit to be able to ask. That's powerful.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
It is b it is and that's another sacred lesson
in order for it to be wisdom, and we gotta
practice practice.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
Yeah, all right, well let's get into the sacred file.
All right, these are five questions I will ask you.
You answer in a word or a sentence. It's ways
for listeners viewers to take practical things from them. So
(51:56):
question number one, Name three things that make you feel safe,
connected and whole.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
Home food, a beautiful woman that's down for.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
You, home food, and a beautiful woman partner that's down
for you. What song, book or prayer brings you back
to yourself?
Speaker 2 (52:28):
The healing wis Some of Africa by Malodoma Somme Elder Maladoma.
Just one, Yeah, you can say, I think that's I
think that's that's the one for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
What's one daily ritual or practice that grounds you.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Walking outside in the morning time, feeling that song on
my skin and taking the biggest breath I can and
taking a few of those and saying thank you for
my life.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
What's one small action that listeners can take on their
healing journey today?
Speaker 2 (53:06):
Keep listening to sacred lessons?
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Take you with me everywhere.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
We're going pro boed it, but that's that's real. Stay around,
stay around what's healthy for you, no matter what anybody
thinks about it. And I love the far effect about
a podcast because you're right, you zone in and zone out.
They might think you listening to Snoop and dre but
you you, you, you ain't here listening to the mic
and yan see, so yeah it's real, all.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Right, Share a one line blessing or quote that inspires you.
Speaker 2 (53:39):
Your life is a sacred journey. I wish I could
say the whole thing because I don't know that shit.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
But who said that.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
To be? You could pull you could put it in
a caption, cause I can't remember, but I gotta. When
I was taking the transformational training, someone gave me a
a small little card and had to start it with
your life is a sacred journey. And then the other
five or six lines really dropped me into and I
have it on my altar, really dropped me into like, yep,
(54:10):
this path, there's no there's no real wrong way unless
you're doing it somebody else's way, you know. And it's
a it's a it's a it's an author. It's a
woman author, and I will get that name for you. Yeah,
but it start says your life is a sacred journey.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
You know one thing I didn't I wanted to ask
and forgot, but I just want to quickly touch on it.
Like you, we talked a lot about ancestral practices, but
you also are for yoga trainer and you have really
taught me that a lot of these these fears and
isms we hold in our body. Oh yeah, which is
(54:51):
why the somatic practice working out being physical is so important.
Before we close, I just wanted to see if you
can touch on that really quick, because that's really really important,
just how we hold a lot of our pain and
trauma and stress in our actual physical bodies.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
Yeah. I mean, even coming up here with these beauty
in this beautiful space with you a little anxious and nervous.
I can feel my jaw tight now right. Sometimes that
translates into jaw, the neck, the back, the hips, you know.
But I will say the one thing for us as men, women,
(55:28):
gender fluid folks, doesn't matter what you are, human is
to really tap into the seasonal will of life. And
that has taught me so much about my body. Again,
relating back to nature and the seasons, there's always a
time to be expressive and bold, like summer. There's always
(55:51):
a time to start to calm down and just be aware,
and then you'll start to see things just fall away
like winter or excuse me, fall and in this winter
season is the time to really listen to the body,
you know, listen to the body so for me as
a as a movement kind of instructor and just finding
(56:12):
my own path of healing my body through yoga specifically,
but just ancient movements. Is. Yeah, once we move period,
we start to we start to find ways that our
body articulates. And I've always used this my practice is
the body is like a vessel. So whatever we pour
into it, we pour a sticky substance into it. It's
(56:33):
gonna be hard when we take it out to stick
it out, so we have to continue to keep washing
it out with fluid movement, with water like movements, so
that we can be water is like the breath, and
we can just keep moving, you know, like Brusly said,
So the somatic world or the body in itself is
(56:53):
a sacred sacred temple. And we all got our ways
of treating ourselves. But one thing we can do for
ourselves every day is move as to the max capacity
without going beyond our edge. And uh yeah, we'll be
a little bit healthier. Move and breathe because your breath
is a movement. So yeah, I'd say that create and
(57:18):
create and just create. You feel me create just like
we just create and find creators who are creating and
create because that's a movement, that's energetic movement. So yeah, yeah, bless.
Speaker 1 (57:33):
Well, it's been a nice little mini journey. Yeah, without
the plant medicine facts, but it's always within us, so
I guess it still was a continuation. But I want
to I always use this time to reflect back some
of the teachings or lessons I got from this, and
(57:59):
there's a lot and I'm trying to figure out how
to encapsulate the greatness known as the Yancey commings, but
I will start with saying what I take from you
always is your willingness to see your mirror and every
person you come into relationship with, and you knowing yourself,
(58:19):
you may know sometimes that mayor is a little lick
needs a little bit more tender loving care. So I
get that. So i might be a little bit off
to protect myself, but I'm not going to leave that.
Does that make sense? And I love that you see
yourself in all of us because all of us are
you and vice versa. The other thing is just your
(58:45):
creativity and curiosity to always remember the child Yancey who's
the adult Yancy, and that your creativity connects you to source,
connects you to breath, which is spirit, and you're working
out the limitations of this platform through your art and
(59:09):
art like spirit, there is the only confining limitations whatever
we put on it. And then the last thing is
just I want to thank you for all that I
continue to learn from you when you hold space, because
you did say when you're doing your music, you're channeling,
and I've seen you like I can't wait to actually
(59:35):
do the music stuff with you, because that's a different
intimate thing. But bro, I've been seeing you channel for
a year and all well, and with that, which is
that you have shown me how to always never doubt,
always trust the voice within you, that intuition, which is channeling,
(59:55):
which is God, Creator, ancestors, what have you. But that's
tighten when we do it together. And when you said, hey,
it's different when two men are looking at each other,
because then maybe all of our indoctrination comes up, our
fears come up. But if we put another two men
or another three men, and we're in a circle of men,
(01:00:18):
we're able to hold all those energies. And that is
the real power, that's the healing wisdom of Africa. That
we are connected to the land, to each other and
if we can see ourselves in others even when we
are acting at our worst, maybe that's the medicine that
we need in this time in life. So I thank you, brother,
(01:00:39):
and I love you so deeply man, so much love.
Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Man.
Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
It's really good to be in this moment in time
with you.
Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
So so stoked for you, bro, and just everything you're
bringing to the world. Yeah, yeah, so give thanks, Let's continue.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
On gives all right. Indeed, thank you, Bro, Thank you
as well. Sacred Lessons is a production My Heart's Michael
through it, our podcast network, Sacred Lessons Media, and the
Prints Group. For more of your favorite shows, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
What are the cycles father's passed down that sons are left.
What if being a man was holding it all together
and learning how to let go. This is a space
to find the power to heal and transform. I'm Mike
Dela Rocha. Welcome to sacred lessons. Some men are taught
(00:23):
to be strong, few men are taught how to heal.
Welcome to sacred lessons. I'm Mike Dela Rocha. Today's conversation
is deeply personal for me because I'm sitting with a
brother that I've walked alongside. One of the most sacred
spaces of my life are men's healing Circle. Yancey Cummins
(00:44):
is the co founder of Hands in the Soil, a
community wellness organization dedicated to cultivating healthy habits in spiritual
well being through connection to nature, culture, and each other.
For years, Yancey has been build building spaces where people,
especially men of color, can reconnect with their bodies, their breath,
(01:07):
and the land itself together. We've watched something magical happen
when men gather in circle. Men who arrive guarded, silent,
unsure slowly, slowly begin to speak, to breathe, to remember
that healing isn't something we do alone. And today we're
(01:31):
going to talk about why men are hurting and why brotherhood,
nature and ritual may be the most important medicine we have.
My man, beautiful, So like I'm just throwing it all
out because like we do. At first, I just want
(01:52):
to say how honored and privileged I am. You've been
a relationship that has come into my life, and you
and I are both very intentional about who we let
into our space. And one I want you to know
because I know that of you, that I want you
to know that I'm just grateful that you allowed me
(02:15):
to enter into your space, your home, your family, and
I've gotten so much from you. Man. You know, we've
been co facilitating these men's circles for a year now
every other week, and I just I've learned as much
from you about how to be present in my own
healing and our collective healing than anyone else. And you're
(02:38):
just like, bro, we'll get into but you have this
ability to channel and to meet man where they are
and to say, you know what. We may have had
this agenda, but nah, we're going to do this and
I want you to know I love you and I'm
so grateful for this conversation and this is like a
continuation of many conversations.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So much love for you, bro, thank you, just just
very grateful. I want to pour some for the ancestors
if this will this yeah, well, time just to make that,
make that connection, this sacred connection to all the spirits
that God is here and that kept us here. Man,
give thanks so much, thanks, listen, thank you, bro. Yeah,
it's a mirror, as you know, it's a mirror. It's
(03:22):
a mirror that I'm happy to look in because I
see parts of myself that I otherwise would be maybe
not looking so deeply at through your eyes and through
our work.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So yes, good, thanks, Well I want to jump right in.
Well actually if you can give the cliff notes version,
but I know the antie of now yeah, but how
did you come here to be the antsie that you are?
The unfolding ante obviously, but what is your life path?
And how did you get right here? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, many twists and turns, as everybody else, I think.
For me, it's born born in Pasadena and lich really
have and now currently raising children on the same street
I was born on as a very serendipitous and blessed
kind of cross section in my life. So that's where
I'm at now. But you know, music, music, I like
(04:14):
to say, you know, music raised me and nature saved me.
That's that's that's my biggest thing. You know, I found
God in the garden and I can skip all the
things before then. But I was a hard head, you know,
always always looking curious, but always but trying to fit in,
trying to fit into circles that I was probably not
(04:34):
meant to fit in, and kind of suppressing my own
my own divine alignment with the Creator. So when I
met music, that kind of brought me through all the
tough times, the ups and downs personal life, you know,
all that type of stuff. But when I met nature
and when I was really at my lowest point fifteen
(04:58):
twenty years ago, Yeah, my mom from Louisiana went to
a community garden planning the planting the bean seed and
came back three three days later seeing it sprout. And
for some reason that was like that was a spark
that led me through a whole nother pathway. And so
that you know, believer it or not, led me into meditating, meditating,
(05:19):
and I'm not an avid meditator, like I like many
folks may think, but my own ways of meditating come
through spirit and music and channeling. But yeah, just let
me down the path. And I followed that path because
God was calling and I'm gonna just jump to it.
Here we are now still figuring, still figuring out how
to weave it, you know. But I will say fatherhood
(05:40):
also brought me to a deeper layer of what this
life really means. And seeing a reflection of my kids
is like, oh okay, this is a special chance. Life
is so cleaning up my acts and just following the
spirit weaving so funny.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Like you talked about mirrors, I probably would it said
the same thing. Music save me, nature slash ritual healed me,
and fatherhood completed me. And in that probably ordered and
cyclical nature. But I will say the nature piece you,
(06:20):
I mean, you co founded hands in the soil, and
so much of our healing has to be earth based
because we're earth based. People talk to those that don't
understand just the power of nature itself and the soil
and like how you saw like the germination of the
seed and what it did something within you. But why
(06:40):
is that so powerful and important?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I mean, think, I think, think of our ancestors. What's
the one thing we all have in common, right outside
of we all you know, piss and poop, you know,
eat and enjoy music, is we all really Nature provides
and we all lean heavily on nature for our lives.
So I think that's just a common denominator. But when
(07:03):
I think about how it's how what it can do,
what it's done for me, and how I can see
it show up in other people's lives, especially in the
urban setting. Right in these urban streets, is bro that
tapped that shit tapped into me something that I did
not know existed, which is how to care for something
that wasn't human, you know, how to be in relationship
(07:27):
with silence, how to be in relationship with like the
subtleties of what's going on, you know, because trying to
fit in, you know, in this world it's a area,
or in this where I grew up, it's a lot
of boldness. The bigger you are, the badder you are,
the stronger you are. But you know, nature shows up
in just a completely different way. And when I say nature,
I'm speaking about all elements, you know, from the waters
(07:49):
to the mountains to the waters that run down the mountains.
Everything is just like it's a cold you know, and
it's a language. And jumping into that language he me
meet not just parts of myself and be and be
in surrendering kind of soft in that space, and it
also meets my ancestors and seeing the strength of nature.
(08:10):
You know. So I think it has I think it
will always. You know, the earth will always be a
place for us to give deep reverence too, but in
this particular time we need to be caring for it
in just a way. And once we put our hands
on the soil together collectively, we're really touching our own souls.
(08:30):
So that's kind of like the you know, that's that's
the metaphor within hands on the soil. It's yes, it's
hands in the earth and the dirt, but it's really
the hands and ourselves and our souls and really doing
the work within ourselves. And hits is owe to the music. Right.
What I was striving to make was hi ty as
it hits, you know what I'm saying. So it's all weave.
It's all weaves. Yeah, And let me ask you have.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
High profound impact I know in so many men's lives,
just that I know in the past year. But what
called you to do the healing work with other men
and specifically men of color, like and why? And obviously
nature is a part of that, and the hits is
a part of them, But what was the.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Calling mushrooms the hongos. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, I.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Feel like, but it's funny, right, because that medicine is
ancestral to all of our lineages and we all come
from the content of Africa, and there's different angles in
different parts of the world, but they all serve a
benisonal portal purpose.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, it's the pathway. It when I when I when
I journey with the medicine long time ago, it really
was whispering like men, something about men aren't showing up.
And that's just how it gave it to me. You know,
I wasn't trying to discriminate men aren't showing up, you know,
or on men show up. And I don't know if
it because I did it around all women, but that
(09:53):
energy was potent and then that just kind of comes
back to me. And it wasn't until I started working
with the landing and seeing like dads with their kids
in the community garden, like you know, just pushing their
kids or just not too many, but every so often,
and I would just offer them like, yo, bro, I
got you know, you want some food. They proun't know
(10:13):
if they made it or not. Could you know? Beat
they probably some of them didn't know what it is,
but they was all grateful. And I could see that
they were they were unguarded because they were with their seed,
you know, and I was coming with reverence, you know.
And so it wasn't a I just think we we
we when we mix, you know, when we mix our
tenderness with our strength, bro, we get something that's that
(10:34):
that the supportal for entry run and collective. Because I
feel like we're all on islands sometimes, you know, and
it's it's not until we connecting a deeper way where
we could see like there's a there's a bridge between
these islands that we stay on. Sometimes it's secluded spaces
where we're taking care of just our family and our
media home.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So and what what do you in your experience? What's
our what's leading us man to feel like to be
these islands amongst ourselves?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And I wish I could throw that question at you.
I feel like you got to answer for it. I
get capitalism, bro, Like I mean, it's a part of it.
I think it's a strive. We get so focused. It's like,
when I was just thinking about this, it's like when
a lion or lioness is hunting, right, I feel like
(11:25):
that's actually the most vulnerable because I saw my cat
hunting a bird the other day. And my cat is
very active and like Hella, it's kind of like a
scaredy cat, like she don't get hit because she always
aware in a run before she gets attacked. But she
locked in on that bird and was just creeping. And
I'm like, bro, if we was out here in the
(11:45):
wilderness and the lion was doing and if some other
predator would come along, that's the perfect time because they're
so focused and locked in, that's all they're worried about.
And I think as men, we kind of stay in
that consistent we're focused, we're drink even we got to
get these goals, and so we're probably more vulnerable than
we think, even though we're so focused, because we're not
(12:07):
taking in the full vibration of what we're what's around us.
We're not considering others. Were kind of in this far
culture where we're will burning, will burn another person just
to get to where we need to get to. And
so I think when we you know, we we pour water.
We pour water, just like we did today. We pour
water on our on our on ourselves, we pour water
on other men figuratively speaking, to help kind of bridge
(12:30):
that gap and cool the fiery energy that we have,
you know, because that shit is good, it's it's it's healthy,
but it's it's so much we don't we kind of
disregard and put ourselves in these secluded spaces just so
we can reach our goals as individuals, but not as
a collective community. So we kind of put that on
a back burner.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And what are some of the practices rituals you've seen
that help men bridge that gap with each other and
with our ancestors and the land.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
What are some things The circle that we hear every
third every other Thursday. Circle circle, It's a sacred shape.
You say it every every close you know, just the
sacredness of the circle. I think that's just one of
the number one points. And I think if you take
if you take away the circle, and you put two
men in a space to where the elements are against them,
(13:22):
then you see folks join forces, you know, it's it's
then you see the rise up and how we can
support each other, you know. And I think that's what
we well hopefully we see now is no division between
some skin color, between some ethnicities, but really the joining
of like there's one common there's a there's a threat
in order to you know, in order to survive that,
(13:45):
we got a band together. And I think those are
the two ways, you know, And of course you got
other other things that that people come together on. But
I think the healthy waves are circle circle. We're talking circles,
you know, and just being creative in the way we
pursue life. You know. Yeah, sometimes it takes roll bumps,
(14:05):
I think for us. I mean that's how we came together.
You know, the fires brought us together, you know why not.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
So I was gonna it's funny or like finishing my
sentence because the fire. I was gonna say a couple
things about the fire. One is, you know, you, as
much as anyone I know, is very mindful and cognizant
of all the elements and how we are not judging anything.
So when the fires are erupted, my elders were saying,
(14:34):
Mike don't blame the fire because was it the fire
or was it the wind that took the embers, or
was it the land because the land itself wasn't being
caretaked the way we were supposed to. And he was like,
the answer is, actually, it's none of that, it's all
of it, and what is our role in that? But
also it's been so profound because most of the men
(14:55):
impacted in Alta Dina happened to be black and brown man.
And it's been so beautiful to model you as a
black mammy, as a Chicano holding space and like we
you may see us as this shell, but we are spirits.
But the fact that we are of multiple communities and
(15:17):
invites others be like, oh okay, and that's where I think
spend the magic sauce. And so I wonder if you
can elaborate a little bit more in this moment in
time when society wants to divide us on different lines,
whether it's race, which is a construct, or other things.
You know why that's been such a powerful invitation.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I've always you know, we're just talking. You know, my
neighbors who are like my second family. I grew up well,
you know, from Jalisco Mako. I feel like one of
the things that I see often that I stand on,
which is black power, you know, unity of the of
of black folks in America and then also just a diaspora.
(16:03):
And then I feel like we stop there thinking, like
thinking like that's the definition of like power and unity
is when we all gather. You know, we've been oppressed,
all of us have been oppressed. And I think once
we start to kind of unravel, we can see, bro,
I can learn so much from you, and then we
(16:23):
start to connect these non differences, these connection points where
we have so much more in the common than we
have in difference. And then we start to realize, like,
whiteness is a construct, you know, if we're going to
take it there, whiteness is it's not even about a race.
It's a construct. It's a part of capitalism to feed
the machine. Something for folks to be butting heads on
(16:46):
at the bottom, right when all we gotta do is
realize that like together we are really much more connected,
you know. And I think, just like with the kids
and when I used to be in a garden man,
when you take folks out of their element and you
drop them somewhere where no one has been. You see
the hardest You see the hardest dude be jumping away
(17:09):
from the bugs and the spiders and ship and trying
to still act you know, hard and tough, but like
it's it's it's interesting when it just shows us how
much you know, we're so locked into our spaces we
forget about like man, we are connected like and you know,
it's like the circle. We got to have each other's back.
I got to be able to see over your shoulder
like mine and be able to communicate. So the spaces
(17:31):
that we create help that communication, and that communication is
a gateway back to remembering, and that remembrance connects us
to all of life, which we can put the way
to the subtle differences that have kind of been thrown down,
you know, our throats to be mad at each other about.
So yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Let me ask you something that I immediately gravitated towards
your spirit, which was gravitating towards mind. But we feel
comfortable in multiple spaces that folks may not feel comfortable. Man. Yeah,
and we're always proximate to our relatives that are still
(18:14):
on their own, like we're both healing. But you know,
maybe suspect to put it lightly in terms of how
they see the world or how they see their role.
And for those that society oftentimes wants to label or
cast off, whether it's like, you know what, you're a
sexist and boom, boom boom, how do you reach those men?
(18:36):
And what do you tell? You know, anyone that's listening
really like, don't give up on our brothers, especially those
are are wilding out. But there's a reason why they're
wilding out. And I wonder if you could elaborate some
more on that.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, I feel like there's just there's just kind of
a when you get to a certain age, you're a man, right.
We got these these powerful ages that we've defined, which is,
you know, a lot of times sixteen is a part
of it, and you have eighteen twenty one, which is
these strong kind of lines where you cross that and
all of a sudden you're a fucking man. And it's like,
(19:13):
you know, but a lot of us are obviously telling somebody,
a lot of us are i would say adult boys
in certain ways, and a lot of psychologically psychologically, we've
never been supported, We've been tamed and trained into kind
of staying in that space, or some of our best
(19:35):
memories were in high school or college, and so we
want to live in that space. Or we never realized
how to treat ourselves. And so I think for everybody,
it's just like, let's look at all of our blind spots.
Don't let's not cast a stone. Let's just look at
the blind spots. And of course, if somebody is not
healthy for our personal space, we got to get away
from it. But to shame and blame them, you know, well,
(19:58):
you know there's also direct harm is never good. You know,
let me just say it off rep But when we're
talking about people who have when we're talking about a
system that creates you know, kind of products, which those
products are, you know, almost call them like uh, you
can almost come like viruses. They get on us and
then we start to function like the product wants us to.
(20:21):
And I just feel like we need that healing. There's
a point in our lives where we need ourselves to
be mirrors. So when we sit in these circles, you know,
the hommy I won't say any names, but you know
the Asian, the Asian hommy who's ten fifteen years older
than me, the younger black hommy that you kind of
(20:42):
and we're all like relating to each other. It's like
we can see each other, and when I go home,
I know that damn okay. I would have probably been
holding this on and had a lot more rage and anger,
but I was able to just put it out there
and also see or hear somebody else say some shit
I would have said, and it's and it's relatable. So
I think those the relations to all of our relations
(21:03):
we need to find harmony. And if we're holding grudges
because these people are wild and trying to find their
way and have not been welcome into a healing space,
or they've been the healing spaces avoided around their environment,
you know, we basically are we're basically acting as colonizers
want us to act. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
We acting like the like the way that colonizers want
us to act. And I think one of the first
things that the colonizers did, both in the the Americas
and the content of Africa was rip us from our
ancestral practices in the land itself, when we never saw
(21:49):
the land as a sense of ownership. It was a relationship.
And this past holiday season he gave me a book
that I've read multiple times, but you know you always
books find you at the time you need them, and
it was The Healing Wisdom of Africa, and I was like,
(22:10):
this is so profound because I needed to be reminded
once again in reading that. And well, I think I
love you so much is because you see the the
importance of ancestral ritual and ceremony in our healing as
a community. And I like, how did you land on
that or like, what was that that made you just
(22:33):
it's not a oh, check the box, it's just who
we are.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I might have to sit
on that, but I do know Pops, my dad, Big
Jake John Cummins, definitely a key factor. Right. I went
to a Bible study Tuesday, Thursday Sunday. I'm like, boy,
you know was in the choir from longer than I
was born. You know what I'm saying, so passed away
(22:57):
in twenty fifteen. But the the powerful thing is his
spirit is continuously so strong. A big dude, six y three, big,
you know, way more hair than me on my face,
just very very soft and loving and also you know,
he couldn't be messed with at the same time, I
(23:17):
learned a lot about spirit through that, you know, because
his dedication to what he believed in was you know,
was was apparent. His voice and music was apparent. He
loved music. We connected on music. And so there's aspects
of like seeing another masculine being that is now on
the other side that I feel like for me. And
(23:42):
I've seen him go through his struggles. You know, I've
seen him. You know, I've seen him pick up a
bottle many times, many times in my young age, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
And.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
You know, seeing him on the other closer to when
he was closer to his transition point not you know,
figure out how to fight them demons and put the
put it away, you know what I'm saying. And I
just feel like that's the beauty of spirit is we
always have a choice, and you know, I don't have
(24:14):
I don't have an answer for that. I just think
that my pops and just seeing who I am, just
like when I deep down tap into who I am,
it's something else talking to me within me, you know,
And it's never let me wrong when I listen. It's
only when I you know what I mean, It's only
when I try to act like as if it's not
(24:36):
there is when I start running into trouble or act
as if I'm the one that's creating all this. You know,
it's a creator, and it's a it's a it's a
free will blueprint if you will to this world. And
I feel like just following that is spirit led. Just
following that free will blueprint and spirit led, you know, and.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
You're talking about listening to the voice inside your head,
your intuition was the one that if you can learn
to trust that and follow that, that's the spirit. That's
the shade that you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, Will said, I think that's a great start. I
think that's a great I think that's why meditation is
so powerful in whatever form it takes. You know, we
we create music, and you know, the music that we
both creates, it's powerful and I do a lot of
channeling and almost like agrill through that music. But it
(25:38):
can come in many different ways. But yes, shad is
so strong when we shut the fuck up and listen.
And I feel like that's that's what prayer is also
to me, is like hey stop talking for a minute
and listen. You know, especially in these technology days, I
was just talking to one of the homegirls, and she
(25:59):
was telling me a lot about what's what she saw
on me, and I was just being quiet and listening,
and I was like, yeah, she's right on the money.
You know. So a lot of times just learning about
myself through being quiet, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, that's funny. I was going to ask you, what
is your definition of pray since you're wearing a shit
since pray?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yeah, man, somebody told me my life was a prayer
and I was like, I didn't understand that. I didn't
understand that. I was like, was it my life for
all lives? But yeah, I think intention intentional. Whatever we
do with intention becomes sacred if it's with reverence and
intention and not in a destroying act. And I think
(26:43):
if we aren't in the spaces between when we're creating intention,
we have to find something within us to create that intention.
And I feel like that's the prayerful space. It's the
space within, like within that intention and that action, like
what are we doing right when we think about something
or when something comes over us. It's not always just
(27:06):
when you know, Dear God, I need something, hit the
knees and pray. It's in those spaces where we are creating,
co creating with the creator, and I feel like that's
the prayer. It's like, if we're in co creation, if
following our mood, if following our path, then the prayers,
that's the prayer. Very much like the procession, that was
a prayer that got answered, you know what I mean,
(27:29):
through all of us coming together and bursting something.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
So and let me ask you your how was your
relationship with your father impacts your relationship with your children.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I only wish my dad could have meet my son
because it's just like he would be laughing so much.
You know, my pops would never I don't really remember
my pop's ever yelling at me and the things that
I saw my pops. There's some things I didn't fuck,
I didn't like. There's some things that I loved, and
I know the things that I didn't like, I do
(28:01):
the opposite. So for me, I've yelled at my son
more than my dad ever yelled at me. And my
son is only eight, and so I just realized, like
there's a lot that he gave and game because yelling
don't really help my son. Maybe some you know it
sometimes it feels like it helps, but then he just
(28:21):
get fired up back, you know, and it's like my
dad had something. So I'm still learning that. I'm still
learning how was how his how he chose to raise
me with my mother is affecting, you know, my relationships.
And I will say that I was the fifth of
his child and the youngest. He had four by Mama,
(28:45):
Daddy and his first wife, and so I came like
shit sixteen years later, you know what I'm saying. So
I'm sure he had a gang of wisdom. I don't
know what he did with the Yeah, yeah, yeah, you
probably figured it out like man, you know, like you
gotta do what you gotta do, because yeah, my brothers
we was you know, they was they came out here
from Illinois, you know Illinois and that that you know,
(29:07):
some of them was cripping. Some of them were they
got into some things, you know, and shout out to
my brothers. Yeah it's yeah, I'm sure he learned lessons.
So I don't have Let's come back in twenty years
and we're gonna have that conversation as elders and see
what it see what it is, and.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Let me ask you a question. What what's a taboo
subject around masculinity, manhood that you don't think we're talking
enough about right now?
Speaker 2 (29:37):
How much we're hurting. Can I keep going, Yeah, how
much we're hurting, how much we're isolated. The they're yearning
for more, you know, they're yearning for connection. I think
that goes with isolation. The I mean, I'm sure that
(30:00):
you're I'm sure you know, seeing a couple of the
podcasts and I know folks be dropping bars, and I
feel like there's a lot of disassociation with like just
connecting with a man one to one like this. You know,
what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Dissociation that we're not taught how to do that.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
We're I don't think we're taught how to do that.
And I think I mean from from from from our
age group and what we what we experienced. This shit
is gay And excuse my language for saying that, but
like that's what was primed in in in my mind
to be this close to somebody or to be able
to touch you and be like, bro, you know what
(30:40):
I'm saying, And just it's like, what's going on with
what's wrong with y'all? Was more of a joke, you
know what I mean? So I think we a lot
of the men that are around my age, we we
have taken ourselves out of that space as earlier in
our lives to be fitting in or meet the status quo,
and we've never returned by to that space. So there's
(31:01):
a lot of like welcoming space that's ready for us
to return to that we're just not quite sure how
to go forward and step in, you know. Yeah. And
I think just how we how we how we show
up with our children as maybe still young young adults,
are parts of ourselves not fully matured. I think that's
(31:23):
a big one too. I'll stop there. And just in healing,
healing in general, I think is a big is a
big it's a taboo, like you know, so, so we
give away a power when we're when we when we
when we step into healing.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Well, we're not talking enough abouts how much pain men
are holding. And then also the way that we've been
conditioned to think that being in an intimate relationship with
the other man is somehow a threat to your manhood.
And then the third thing is just that healing is
not gonna demasculate you. If anything's gonna make you stronger
(32:04):
in your vulnerability, is that fat?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah? That's it. That's it, one hundred percent. And one
more thing I would say is health. I mean I
think I think a lot, well not one hundred percent,
but I think a lot of the time we don't
talk about health enough as men. Two men, you know,
(32:28):
we all got prostates where some of us have still
got it. Prostate cancer is one of the biggest threats
to men, especially black and brown.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Man, Why do you think it's so hard for us
to do that, because it's absolutely you know, I'm sharing
with you when I want my cousins for a weekend.
It was just us, man, and I felt shameful to
ask some of these questions. But then I started asking
if if you Mike or have a book around fucking
healing man, and you can't even talk to your own
primos about it, Like what does that say? I was like, no, no,
(32:58):
get over the fear the shame, and ask have you
guys got a prostate check?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Or why is it that you know two of the
men there my cousins, you know both of our fathers
have prostate issues, and then never talk to us about it.
To your point, and we're replicating that same silence, like
where does that come from? Why do you think it's
so hard for us just to talk about our bodies
(33:25):
or you know what I mean, like me talking about
prostate cancer or taking shots of testosterone. That doesn't make
me less of a man. That's actually helping me be
a healthier version of who I am? But why is
it so hard?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
No, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta figure
that out. I will say, I think fear is what
makes a man feel less manly. So who wants to
feel scared about some shit that they kind of can't
feel like they can't control?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Right?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Obviously we can talk about the Western medical you know,
the system as a whole pharmacology, and that it also
has its effect. I'm just like, they're not gonna do
nothing for me. You know, a test is a test.
It'll do something for you. But how do we show
up and handle that? Right? If you get some news
you don't want to hear, especially with a whole bunch
(34:18):
of stuff already on our backs, that could break us,
or it can make us, or it can make you.
It could break you down to build you up, you know,
And I saw, I think I saw so. Just another
point I would speak of is death. We now we don't.
We don't. We don't talk about death like that. Now,
(34:39):
I will say, in some cultures they do talk about death,
and that's powerful. They don't see death as you're dead
and you know, all done, flatline. It's a gateway into
another and I feel like that's an Then we ritual
and being closer to people, especially as we get older,
no matter how old we are, death and kind of
(35:01):
unraveling what that concept is that what they feed it
at us to be. It could be beautiful because you know,
I got homies that focus on anti aging, and which
is beautiful. You know, I got homies that focused on
but you see, the whole world is built around youth
and keeping that young, keeping that young energy. It's why
the homies out here wearing clothes too tight, you know,
per forward those days and trying to show up. It
(35:24):
looks bad, but they're trying to reach their reaching for
something that left them and not stepping into uh to
what's coming for them. Francis Weller said, Oftentimes, I don't
know if you heard it from somewhere else. I said,
we turn around and walk backwards into death. We don't
want to see it. We want to look back at
(35:44):
at what was what was? So I feel like for me,
that's I feel like that's when I think about myself,
not thinking about it. I think about that aspect, right,
What do I want to think about dying? Like, especially
as I get older and it becomes more prevalent that
there's a cross roads somewhere in my future.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
What do you would you tell those men that are
afraid being too vulnerable intimate because it's a threat to
what they've been taught is their masculine identity. How do
you invite them into something like a relationship like we have.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Oh no, you know what, you know what I think
it is. And we haven't done this yet. You've been
doing it with sacred lessons as you've been going around
and tapping into different communities. I think, I know it's
a podcast you got to ask me, but I would
I would shoot that question back at you. But I
think it's you know, it can't start by hey, man,
come to come to a man's circle. They gonna be like, bro,
(36:43):
what you know, like just gonna sit around and talk
to other men, Like what for what I got? Women?
You know what I mean, especially those without whatever their
their their preferences, those without other partners. You know, it's
just like I'm trying to hit the town. I think
meeting folks were at is crucial. Man, just just just
be a homie. Be a solid homie first, Be a
(37:05):
solid homie. Show up. Somebody's gonna ask you my homie
who bless his heart. I hope he's doing a lot
better now, you know. He was like, man, how did
you fuck? What is he asking? How did you transform?
Or something like that. It was like a it was
like he looked at me because he know me from
high school. It's just you know, just different. He was like, man,
you really transform and he's like how did you do it?
(37:26):
And I never answer for him. But I think just
meeting people where they're at, it's it's crucial. It's like yeah,
because otherwise then we're looking down on folks and like,
you know, come to my layer. You know you will
learn a thing. The guru culture is dead, that shit
is over with, and so I think it's just meeting
people or that act. So let's go out and bounce about.
(37:48):
Let's let's go kick a soccer ball, let's go do
we We don't need a drink and if we you know,
there's there's there's things we need to stay away from.
But invite the homie into eating better, go work out
with him, you know that that might be all the
therapy y'all need. That's it. Go to the water, Let's
go to the beach. It's beautiful women at the beach,
(38:08):
you know, and men whatever, you know, all of it
is at the beach. You know, Let's be there, you know.
I think that's I think that's the way for me.
I feel like that's that's it. I got longtime homies,
but like people that I just met, we just seem
to have like that connection. That's we've already done a
little bit of some some of that work, and we're
not as rough for around certain edges and we're able
(38:29):
to like tap in. I hate having shallow conversations. That
shit is like I get awkward, I'll start moving and
fissing it a lot. So I think it's also just
finding your tribe, finding the people that you feel seen around, yeah,
and sticking there, you know, and offering something, even if
it's just gratitude.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
So yeah, definitely double down on everything you just shared,
which is meaning folks here they are without judgment, and
I know that's the hard part in this judgmental society
we live in. And and I don't got my shit
figured out. We always say that, like, and I'm still
(39:07):
the work in progress and just in the invitation just
join me. And ironically all the things that I don't
even like the word toxic masculinity because we're all masculine
a feminine. It's not toxic. It's our behaviors maybe. But
you know the way that folks are recruited into extreme ideologies.
(39:31):
People talk about the mamosphere a lot. And I don't
throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's another construct.
But they always talk about, oh, you know, we met
them at a UFC match or we met them at
this and okay, well, if that's where we are, why
don't we go there?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
You know?
Speaker 1 (39:51):
And and and and also what I've what I love
about what we've been able to continue to co create
together is it only takes out one time or a man
who's suspect I don't know about this healing circling and see,
but they come in it's like they're dipping their toe
in the water. And then they're like, why haven't I
(40:11):
been in the water the whole time? And it's you know,
I think our role is really just to create spaces
of curiosity and it may not work, and that's okay,
another space will. I think what I've learned from you
and just others is like, just don't give up, because
everything around us has given up on us. So if
(40:32):
we're gonna do that, So how different are we to
the oppressors that you were mentioning earlier? You know, just
in well in closing, like, what, given your decades of
unfolding experiences, what is your biggest hope for your son
(40:58):
and the next generation of man coming up.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
It's tough. That's a tough It's a touchy and tough one.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Man.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
You know. It's like, yeah, because my son is different too.
You know. It's like a lot of the kids, a
lot of the homies kids play sports. He my boy
playing back baseball now. But he has this arts, artfulness,
you know, and this tenderness. He's still coming into his
(41:25):
his form, you know, like really like scanning the earth
is not really something that he's like full harleheartedly doing.
He's still in his full journey. So I'm like, man,
you gotta protect that, like not harden it, not stripping
away cultivated, you know, that tenderness and and his and
(41:46):
his and his strength within that tenderness like all of it,
you know, So provide him the protection that he needs.
But don't stone don't smother him, you know, like let
his fire like actually grow them in spaces where he
feels seen. And then also like give him that courage
that he might not have to edge him to his
(42:10):
own edge and find newness. Because I think a lot
of are just a lot of the hommies, the young
hummies right now. They have the same thing we have,
but they got it deeper. Because technology is such a
beautiful contraption. It's got two heads. It could serve you,
or it it can mark you slowly, slowly, you never know,
(42:35):
and be draining your power until you're trusting in a
certain machine or a certain you know, are you giving
all your leverage and power into this what me either
people think about you or what's something spits back out
at you, and so like really trying to navigate that.
I think that's the biggest for me. That's the biggest
thing right now. So that he can have a chance
(42:55):
to put two feet in, two feet on the soil
and stand tall and make his decisions, you know, confidently
confident decisions and know how to protect themselves when needed.
Everything else is on him. Everything else is like you know,
you gotta you gotta let him. You feel me flapped
till he almost hit the ground and hopefully fly and
(43:17):
you know, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
I think what we always say in our circle is,
you know, there's a difference between ritual and routine. And
we as man we have a lot of our routines.
A lot of us wake up and we go work
out and then we do or you know, do our thing,
and that's a routine. The power of rituals we have
no control, that's right. And the power of fatherhood is
(43:41):
we don't have control. And I think when we yell
at our kids is because we think we can control,
and they come in with their own medicine and their
own lache. And the hardest part for me is being
able to accept and not project what I want my
son to do or be. Like I was a jock,
and there was a long time when that was like
(44:03):
when you say tenderness and artistic thing. My son was
more in the video games and doing other things, and
I was like, beautiful and I would see him play
certain sports, and I'd be like, oh, man, I didn't
want I was trying to protect him from what society
would do. But at the same time he was teaching me,
you don't need to protect me, Like I'm comfortable. Why
aren't you comfortable? You know what I'm saying. So, and
(44:27):
I'm still learning, and I think that's the journey of
this new humanness. I know it's a show by masculinity
and wellness, but I guess the real sacred lesson is
that the real definition of manhood is that there is
no manhood, there is no control, that fear is a construct,
and that if we can let go of our expectations
(44:50):
and our beliefs about what we're supposed to be and
just be who we are, that's actually the definition of freedom,
liberation spirit, because then we're boundless and we're able to
fulfill whatever our life purpose is. Here.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yeah, I would say just to that the liberates that
the sacred lesson definitely is what you just shared, and
the liberation piece is like that's it, Like that's it,
like follow follow it, just follow it, you know. And
the shame and the blame is just distractions. It's just
(45:24):
it's it's those pieces you know, people call you know,
demons devil like, those are the real things that we
have to we have to work with. And so allowing
ourselves to grace to grow, you know, whatever way that
looks like. I think that goes back to your point
on how others might view it's just allow yourselves to
grace to grow, get away from what's harmful, continue to
(45:46):
step forward, ask questions, ask for help, lean on the
people you love and make sure you're not getting burned
by the same people you know, and let God handle
the rest. You know, that ritual part of huge In
some way, we find our way into ritual spaces that
that help us grow internally.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
So yeah, before I go on to the Sacred five,
I want to ask you one question, because you kind
of brought it up. Why do you think it's so
hard for us meant to ask for help?
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Vulnerability feels like weakness. Yeah, individuality, pulling myself foot on
my own bootstraps feels like success. And I think the grooming,
(46:53):
the grooming has been groomed. We've been groomed, and so yeah,
I'm exploring that. I'm exploring somebody just tell me, like
you don't got to do it all by yourself today today.
So I'm like, yeah, you're right, you know, asking for
asking for help. What happens when somebody says no, am
I gonna flare up and we'll fuck you in or
like close up and cry. So like, yeah, I think
(47:15):
I don't know if we are. That's one of those again,
going back to health, I don't know how much health.
I don't know how much we've worked out that space of, like,
you know, asking for help and receiving the help that
people are willing to give, no matter if it's this
or that you know, I don't I don't know. I
(47:36):
gotta I gotta go, I gotta go deeper within on
that one.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Well, it's interesting because what I took from what you
just said was we're afraid to ask a lot of
us man are afraid to ask for help because we're
afraid that the person we ask in that vulnerable state
will not know how to or we'll say no, and
then what would that do to our ego? Would that
do to our ability to then ask someone else? Oftentimes
(48:02):
we won't. Yeah, And and that's the part that I
think it's hard because we as a society, both men, women,
non binary folks, we're conditioned the thing that men are
supposed to have it all figured out, and if we don't,
then we're not a man. And if you do ask
for help, then you're being vulnerable, and vulnerable vulnerability is
(48:24):
to sign a weakness. And it's like everything I just
said is a complete and utter.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Life facts ship when I'm finding out.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
And it's hard because we can't tell someone who to be.
That's not even our role to tells someone how to be.
But we can just share what we're doing. But what
I've seen is those men in my life that are
the most vulnerable are actually the men I aspire to
become closer to.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Yeah, yeah, and I would say the same, bro, I'll
say that's why we're here together, you know what I'm saying,
figuring it out because the other stuff is it's a
stagnation point. You only even go so far and shout
out to the homies. I've seen my I've seen some
of my brothers, you know, and and and just people
in general. They got the tenacity. You know that no
doesn't mean it's a no for them. It just means
(49:16):
it wasn't the right time for that person. And a
lot of times we equate that to marketing or equate
that to a business mindset, and I think it's super
healthy for that finance to be able to be financially successful.
You've got to drop in a gang of nose to
be able to get to a couple of yeses. But yeah,
if we stop knocking on the door because of a no,
(49:36):
or we curl ourselves in.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Me and me and my partner said, you know, don't
block your blessings because if you put a if you
put a if you put a shield up, nothing's getting
in but alsome nothing's going out. So you're just in
a shell, you know. So yeah, one hundred percent help.
Help is huge when we go to ceremony uh and
sit with the medicine, want to in the school lot
(50:01):
of practice with the first thing before we move any
further is practicing how to actually say help out loud
literally so that in the conscious mind we've said it
in a close proximity and it's something that is is
(50:21):
in our purview of being able to say again. And
still people still people get stuck, you know what I'm saying,
Because yeah, another time we can talk about that deeper.
I think that's I think that's a big question. Why
is it so hard to ask for help is a
huge question.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Yeah, you just stopped yourself. Why about the asking for
the help you because that's going to go down the
rabbit hole. Well, I do what I will take from this,
which is so profound that anyone. What I love about
the podcast space, especially for man, is like no one
will know that you're listening to podcasts.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
You can be listening to the hits, you listening to
the Yante Cummins, you can listen to Mike whoever, So
they might think you're listening to music and you're actually
listening to this conversation that the yantsy comings and saying
you know what, why don't you practice saying out loud
I need help?
Speaker 1 (51:16):
So when the day does come, it's not foreign or
strange to you. But you have trained your mind and
your spirit to be able to ask. That's powerful.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
It is b it is and that's another sacred lesson
in order for it to be wisdom, and we gotta
practice practice.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
Yeah, all right, well let's get into the sacred file.
All right, these are five questions I will ask you.
You answer in a word or a sentence. It's ways
for listeners viewers to take practical things from them. So
(51:56):
question number one, Name three things that make you feel safe,
connected and whole.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
Home food, a beautiful woman that's down for.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
You, home food, and a beautiful woman partner that's down
for you. What song, book or prayer brings you back
to yourself?
Speaker 2 (52:28):
The healing wis Some of Africa by Malodoma Somme Elder Maladoma.
Just one, Yeah, you can say, I think that's I
think that's that's the one for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
What's one daily ritual or practice that grounds you.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Walking outside in the morning time, feeling that song on
my skin and taking the biggest breath I can and
taking a few of those and saying thank you for
my life.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
What's one small action that listeners can take on their
healing journey today?
Speaker 2 (53:06):
Keep listening to sacred lessons?
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Take you with me everywhere.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
We're going pro boed it, but that's that's real. Stay around,
stay around what's healthy for you, no matter what anybody
thinks about it. And I love the far effect about
a podcast because you're right, you zone in and zone out.
They might think you listening to Snoop and dre but
you you, you, you ain't here listening to the mic
and yan see, so yeah it's real, all.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Right, Share a one line blessing or quote that inspires you.
Speaker 2 (53:39):
Your life is a sacred journey. I wish I could
say the whole thing because I don't know that shit.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
But who said that.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
To be? You could pull you could put it in
a caption, cause I can't remember, but I gotta. When
I was taking the transformational training, someone gave me a
a small little card and had to start it with
your life is a sacred journey. And then the other
five or six lines really dropped me into and I
have it on my altar, really dropped me into like, yep,
(54:10):
this path, there's no there's no real wrong way unless
you're doing it somebody else's way, you know. And it's
a it's a it's a it's an author. It's a
woman author, and I will get that name for you. Yeah,
but it start says your life is a sacred journey.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
You know one thing I didn't I wanted to ask
and forgot, but I just want to quickly touch on it.
Like you, we talked a lot about ancestral practices, but
you also are for yoga trainer and you have really
taught me that a lot of these these fears and
isms we hold in our body. Oh yeah, which is
(54:51):
why the somatic practice working out being physical is so important.
Before we close, I just wanted to see if you
can touch on that really quick, because that's really really important,
just how we hold a lot of our pain and
trauma and stress in our actual physical bodies.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
Yeah. I mean, even coming up here with these beauty
in this beautiful space with you a little anxious and nervous.
I can feel my jaw tight now right. Sometimes that
translates into jaw, the neck, the back, the hips, you know.
But I will say the one thing for us as men, women,
(55:28):
gender fluid folks, doesn't matter what you are, human is
to really tap into the seasonal will of life. And
that has taught me so much about my body. Again,
relating back to nature and the seasons, there's always a
time to be expressive and bold, like summer. There's always
(55:51):
a time to start to calm down and just be aware,
and then you'll start to see things just fall away
like winter or excuse me, fall and in this winter
season is the time to really listen to the body,
you know, listen to the body so for me as
a as a movement kind of instructor and just finding
(56:12):
my own path of healing my body through yoga specifically,
but just ancient movements. Is. Yeah, once we move period,
we start to we start to find ways that our
body articulates. And I've always used this my practice is
the body is like a vessel. So whatever we pour
into it, we pour a sticky substance into it. It's
(56:33):
gonna be hard when we take it out to stick
it out, so we have to continue to keep washing
it out with fluid movement, with water like movements, so
that we can be water is like the breath, and
we can just keep moving, you know, like Brusly said,
So the somatic world or the body in itself is
(56:53):
a sacred sacred temple. And we all got our ways
of treating ourselves. But one thing we can do for
ourselves every day is move as to the max capacity
without going beyond our edge. And uh yeah, we'll be
a little bit healthier. Move and breathe because your breath
is a movement. So yeah, I'd say that create and
(57:18):
create and just create. You feel me create just like
we just create and find creators who are creating and
create because that's a movement, that's energetic movement. So yeah, yeah, bless.
Speaker 1 (57:33):
Well, it's been a nice little mini journey. Yeah, without
the plant medicine facts, but it's always within us, so
I guess it still was a continuation. But I want
to I always use this time to reflect back some
of the teachings or lessons I got from this, and
(57:59):
there's a lot and I'm trying to figure out how
to encapsulate the greatness known as the Yancey commings, but
I will start with saying what I take from you
always is your willingness to see your mirror and every
person you come into relationship with, and you knowing yourself,
(58:19):
you may know sometimes that mayor is a little lick
needs a little bit more tender loving care. So I
get that. So i might be a little bit off
to protect myself, but I'm not going to leave that.
Does that make sense? And I love that you see
yourself in all of us because all of us are
you and vice versa. The other thing is just your
(58:45):
creativity and curiosity to always remember the child Yancey who's
the adult Yancy, and that your creativity connects you to source,
connects you to breath, which is spirit, and you're working
out the limitations of this platform through your art and
(59:09):
art like spirit, there is the only confining limitations whatever
we put on it. And then the last thing is
just I want to thank you for all that I
continue to learn from you when you hold space, because
you did say when you're doing your music, you're channeling,
and I've seen you like I can't wait to actually
(59:35):
do the music stuff with you, because that's a different
intimate thing. But bro, I've been seeing you channel for
a year and all well, and with that, which is
that you have shown me how to always never doubt,
always trust the voice within you, that intuition, which is channeling,
(59:55):
which is God, Creator, ancestors, what have you. But that's
tighten when we do it together. And when you said, hey,
it's different when two men are looking at each other,
because then maybe all of our indoctrination comes up, our
fears come up. But if we put another two men
or another three men, and we're in a circle of men,
(01:00:18):
we're able to hold all those energies. And that is
the real power, that's the healing wisdom of Africa. That
we are connected to the land, to each other and
if we can see ourselves in others even when we
are acting at our worst, maybe that's the medicine that
we need in this time in life. So I thank you, brother,
(01:00:39):
and I love you so deeply man, so much love.
Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Man.
Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
It's really good to be in this moment in time
with you.
Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
So so stoked for you, bro, and just everything you're
bringing to the world. Yeah, yeah, so give thanks, Let's continue.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
On gives all right. Indeed, thank you, Bro, Thank you
as well. Sacred Lessons is a production My Heart's Michael
through it, our podcast network, Sacred Lessons Media, and the
Prints Group. For more of your favorite shows, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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