Sacred Lessons in Ceremony: Culture, Community & Healing

In this episode of Sacred Lessons, host Mike de la Rocha sits with Maestro Jerry Tello for a deeply grounding conversation on ceremony, culture, and healing. A community leader, healing practitioner, and internationally recognized voice for justice, Jerry shares wisdom shaped by his Mexican, Texan, and Coahuiltecan Indigenous roots and upbringing in Los Angeles. With over five decades dedicated to healing individuals, families, and communities, Jerry reflects on fatherhood, violence prevention, and the power of culturally-rooted practices to restore dignity and connection.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What are the cycles fathers passed down that sons are
left to yield. What if being a man was holding
it all together? I've been learning how to let go.
This is a space where that's to find the power
to heal and transform.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Mike Dela Rocha. Welcome to sacred lessons.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Some lessons can't be learned in books. They have to
be remembered in ceremony. Welcome to sacred lessons. I'm Mike
Dela Rocha. Today's conversation is especially close to my heart
because it's with someone whose work has profoundly shaped my life.
Jerry Theo is the founder of the National Comboditi's Network,

(00:44):
a movement that reconnects men, fathers, and families to their
sacred purpose through culture, ceremony, and love. Now the honor
of attending one of the Compositi's Networks retreats where I
experienced firsthand what it means is sit in circle, to pray,
to weep, and to remember that healing is not a

(01:06):
solitary act, but a communal one. Jerry has spent over
five decades guiding men and families back to that circle,
reminding us that our medicine has always been within reach,
it's in our breath, it's in our ancestors, and it's
in our stories. Jerry, thank you so much for joining us.

(01:33):
When I see you get I get so excited because
I see my family in your physical appearance, in the way,
your presence, your work that you've helped to build. Like
I said in the intro, has profoundly changed how I
see like myself in my role in the world. And

(01:57):
this year has changed my life with my dad's story
and our story with my book. But one of the
highlights was going to this retreat, this National Composers Network retreat,
and it was three days thirty men, fathers and sons,

(02:18):
a trans individual men that have served decades in prison.
And the oneness that I felt was there's no words.
There's maybe art that I could express, But at the
end of the day, when I was sitting there, I
was like, this is a manifestation.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Of Jered Dale's heart.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
And so first and foremost five decades of doing this
healing work, I want to say thank you because you
have led the foundation for myself and so many of
us that are engaged in this process of healing ourselves
in our community. So thank you for being on this
this podcast.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Thank you brother, and I appreciate you know, the the
introduction and for you opening this space this way. You know,
I want to begin, you know, my thanking creator, you know,
thanking the ancestors, thanking your ancestors, you know, uh, and
and say that, you know, I know that my ancestors

(03:21):
they had a dream like your ancestors did. I also
know that they went through a lot of shit, a
lot of stuff, but they didn't give up. And and
for a long time I wondered, how did they make it?
How did my Awalita, my grandma, you know, did my
mom and dad? How did they? How did they do this?
Why did they do this? Sometime? Why why do you

(03:41):
put up with that? What do you deal with that?
Why do you? And and and I? You know, in
a dream it came to me that that that they
had a dream. And I saw it in my grandma,
my little Awlita, you know that's four foot ten, to
go to the children's apartment to buy her shoes. She
had little feet like that man, and but she had

(04:04):
her ways. And one of the things he did that
I thought was crazy. She get up at four o'clock
in the morning and I'm saying, Grandma, why you get
up survey and got to go to school and got
to go to work when you want to sleep, Like
I said, they did not understand. She knew I didn't understand.
But she would get up at four o'clock in the
morning and in the you know, in that home, in
the hallway, there was a little crevice in the wall

(04:26):
that she had her sacreds, her candle that we can
wear the loops, and she was a pillow on the ground.
She kneeled nothe right down there, and you could almost
do an assessment of our family, how many problem he has,
because the more problem he had, the lungs. She's stand
in the pillow right. But after she'd finish, she'd come to
the room where all of us kids are sleeping, and
she was sitting at the show, and she blessed us

(04:46):
up with admindision. As a little kid, you know, I
used to be bothered by it here and Grandma, why
are you waking me? You know I was having a
good dream. He must have my dream, Grandma, I can't.
And I didn't understand why she needed to bless me up? Grandma,
Why you blessed me last night before I went to
sleeping is still good for now? And then I went

(05:07):
to walk in. Why don't need so many blessings? You know,
I got the devil in me or what I didn't understand,
didn't understand what my grandma understood.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
That what she needed to tell me over and over,
you're a blessing. You're a blessing just the way you are.
You're a blessing, you know, And she blessed you know,
all of us. I guess, the kids that were good
in school, the ones that were good in school, the
ones that you know, paid attention that the ones that
took bast the stinking why she didn't care.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
She blessed us all. And what I didn't understand is
that my grandma had it to inoculate us and remind
us because she knew when I went into that world,
they were not going to see us that way, and
they're not going to see us as a blessing that
because of the color of my skin and how they
portrayed us. You know, when I walked in the store,

(06:03):
they were going to follow me, you know, the cops
that were gonna pull me over, They're gonna put me
in the back of the classroom. They were gonna, you know,
and and those feelings, you know, unless you have a
protective shield, go inside of you and began to cultivate
something that later on makes you act different. But what

(06:24):
I didn't understand is when my grandma said those prayers
and sang those songs and burdened that medicine, that all
the grandmas woke up. All the grandmas woke up because
they smelled that medicine, they heard that similar song, they
heard that prayer, and all of them woke up and
prayed at the same time. So it wasn't just my

(06:46):
grandma's prayers. It was all those generations that were praying
that says you are our dream. But it also did
not just stand at that time. Is it meant you
have a responsibility because you represent us all that way?
You know? So my family, you know, my dad Orkaptisteo

(07:09):
Tapilancoteca and Michicano from San Antonio, Texas, right, and and
my mom's by the usus Laga from Chihuaua, and they
met and some of us kids are born in Texas,
but the work moved to California, and then some of
us are born here. And I was raised in Compton,
some straight out of Compton, out of the Vado, you
black and brown neighborhood there in the fifties, you know,

(07:32):
and you know, and before we started the interview, we're
talking about, you know, these fifty years and all done,
all this work. But it's a trip because right now,
you know, I'm feeling things that I felt when I
was a kid. We used to live across tore from
the school, right, and and sometimes they'd be on the
school yard playing and you see some of the kids

(07:55):
go to the fence, right, and you go, see what
are they going to the fence for? And you go
to the fence and then you see that one of
them's crying, and they're crying because they're seeing either the
migra or the police picking up somebody. And you know
who they're picking up, because the kid that's crying, it's
their dad or their mom or their ta right. And

(08:16):
as little kids, you know, we just want to hug them.
We hugged our friend, right. But then the bell rang
and the bell rang, and you had to shut it
down and page forty seven and pay attention and don't
let your legs shake. And so what do you do
with all that shit? What do you do with all
those feelings? What do you do with all that stuff?

(08:37):
You know? So I realized, and you know, yes, I'm
very proud of all that work, but I realized that
the medicine started way back then, started with those ancestors,
started with my grandma's prayers, started with my dad. It's
love of working. You know. Oh he didn't say I

(08:59):
love you, but he says I'm getting up. He were
a you know, it's a different language in this Western society.
You know. When when I when I later on went
to college and become a therapist, you know, I had
to go to therapy, and the therapist asked me, well,
did you did your parents are here? They love you? Well? No,

(09:22):
Well did you have a connection a bond with your
mom and dad? I think so? But did you did
you do stuff with your dad?

Speaker 1 (09:31):
No?

Speaker 2 (09:31):
I was working most of the time, So you don't
have a connection with your dad. Well, I don't know,
I don't know. I guess you know, how about your mom?
Did you know? And my mom was always working. I
mean when I woke up, my mom was awake. When
I wanted to leave, my mom was awake, you know,
working but also taking care of the house and taking
care of us, and and this therapist made me doubt

(09:56):
whether my parents loved me, whether my dad in this
hard work and the trabacco. And I'd see, you know,
rub my dad's hands and they were all crusty, you know.
And I'm dad, you're as hard I could get the chemical,
you know. And and and what I begin to understand,
not till much later, early on in my life, this

(10:19):
society was indoctrinated me to look at my family and
the way that we connected and the way that we
bonded and the way that we dealt with stuff in
a very deficit oriented way, to think that my dad
didn't love me, you know. And he was being brusco too.
He's loudway I got that, you know, you know, and

(10:42):
I wonder why was he so hard all the time,
you know. I mean, we didn't talk about it. My
dad was just you know, brusco like that, you know.
And you know, I wore a hat today because my
dad wore had He didn't have a good hat like this.
He had work hads with the stains and holes and
you know. But but you know, my dad, it's interesting.
He wouldn't go out the house even to fix the car,
cut the whatever. Well, putting the hat on. But he

(11:02):
had a way of putting the hat on. And I'm like,
you don't just put it. You don't PLoP my hat on. Know,
you get the hat, you go and then you go, okay,
well I'm on those right now. When he put that
hat on, like he grew, like he got big. I
thought he was six foot to you or there at
five five, but I thought he was big, you know.
And and you know, but one of my dad's rules

(11:23):
was still messing my hats, you know. And and back
then you paid attention to that was just to look
You're like, okay, I'm not gonna my shoe hats. You know.
I didn't hold my father's hat, touched my father's hat
till I was thirteen when he died. My father died
when I was thirteen. But you know, I had learned

(11:43):
that in the body that I grew up in, in
the neighborhood that I grew up in, you know, you
had to hold yourself a certain way. And know I
was doing. I was speaking at a conference not too
long ag when they were talking about trauma and and
and emotional release and sharing and how black and brown
boys don't share and they don't cry. And one of
the things we need to do is interventions teach them

(12:05):
to mode and to cry. And you know, and all
the these researchers, these very profound international people were saying,
this is the intervention we need to do, is you
teach black and brown boys to cry and to share
and all of that, and and they they said, so,
you know, part of the intervention needs to be when
they go through a trauma, for them to cry, you know.
And I got up to speak and I said, you know,

(12:28):
they're in Compton where I grew up, where we saw
all kinds of stuff. So cops beating you know, my
best friend Tyrone, we came from school. The cops, four
cops had his dad on the on the ground, you know,
they had their foot on his back, you know. And
and my friend Trones runs up, my daddy, why are
you and the grandma nov they become your nobody cut

(12:50):
my daddy, you know, and then he runs away, you know,
and I go console, my friend, you saw what they did.
Get out of here, man, get out of here. Why
won't you see me cry? You know? You think of
you know, and what I was sharing with this audience.
If I were to cry every time some kind of trauma,

(13:11):
I'd be trying to crying twenty four to seven when
I grew up. So why and how do we manage that?
You know? And I begin I share that with you,
all of that because this journey towards gathering men and

(13:34):
gathering boys was to create a space for men like
my father. Well, all they did was work there to
create a space for Tyrone's dad, who the racist remarks

(13:57):
and the way they were treated was so bad. When
do you have a chance to cry and let it go?
And is it good to do that? Because one of
the biggest fears is once I started crying, I ain't
gonna be able to stop now. And I got to
go to work, I got to handle business, I got
to raise my son. Well, I got to be ready

(14:20):
when the next cop stops me, you know. So you know,
within this journey, you know, you know, I've learned a lot,
and at thirteen, you know, didn't know what to do
with all of that. My best friend, you know, was there,
you know, and man, I'm sorry I heard your dad die.

(14:44):
You know. Man, that's the way life is, you know, Oh,
that's your feet though, man, I know, man, he was sick.
It is probably better, you know. And I played it off,
you know. And and then he says to me, he says, hey, man,
it's go to my house in the garage. My dad's
got some forties. You know. We'll drink a couple. And

(15:06):
that's what he saw other men do when they were hurting.
The drink some forties. So I went and I drank
some forties. But I had to come home. And what
did I see when I came home. My dad's hats.
I'm saying, shit, those are my hats. Now. He can't
scold me. He can't, he can't punish me. He can't,

(15:28):
he can't do nothing. Those are my hats, though. And
I picked up my dad's hat and I never picked
up me, and it was heavy. I said, well, shit,
what's in it? And I turned it over and inside
my dad's hats were all of our names. And what

(15:55):
hit me? Though, I don't know how to wear a
damn hat. I'm out of clean a hat. I don't
know how to put that hat on. And the one
that's supposed to teach me is gone. So part of
this work was for those boys, those little boys, they're

(16:18):
looking for somebody teach me? Can you teach me? You know?
And you know my work, you know, throughout these years
have been you know, working in many communities, but working
in inner city a lot, you know, and working a
lot with boys and men, but but seeing little boys

(16:43):
and being so angry because of how you know. I
went into preschool four year little boy and uh, and
they called me the preschool to do an assessment because
this little boy had been kicked out of two pea
schools already, the four year boy and I walk in
there and and the teacher sees, are you the psychologist?

(17:04):
What he is? Are you mister Tello? No, it's pronounced tale. Well,
mister Tello, and go ahead. He said, you came to
see that angry little boy. I said, what's his name?
They called him angry little boy. Well, he's he's very
angry and you can see it. I said, well, why
is he in the corner? Well we have him on

(17:24):
time out. Well why do you have on time out? Oh?
Because it's for his safety. I mean, at four, they
were already isolating, incarcerating him. And I said, well, tell
me about you know, about his family? When his mother
brings him and he's got three siblings, but he doesn't
have a dad. And I'm saying that's biologically impossible. But

(17:47):
how many young kids do have I n commed, said,
I ain't got a dad, I ain't got no dad.
That your dad is living inside you, and it's a
hole about that big. But because this society wants to erase,
especially black and brown man, they even tell little boys

(18:08):
you ain't got a dad, you don't need your dad.
And what they don't realize is that hole grows and
it hurts and it grieves. So I go, see this
little boy, I'm gonna have my toys cause you to
get the way you work with little kids. And said

(18:29):
to me, oh, you wanna play with a car? No,
I don't wanna play. And I can feel his energy.
You're just really really angry. And look I have this airplane.
No I don't wanna play. I said, well, look at
this car. And I roll up the car to him
and he kicks it. I said, okay, I roll it back.
He kicks it back to me. It's all right. Then
I kick it back to him and he kicks it

(18:50):
back to me, and I kick him back to him,
and then he smiles. Rot thirty said, no, I don't
wanna play, and and I feel him, and I kneel
down in front of He's not playing with me, He's
playing in his own little world. And I kneel down
and I become my grandma, I said, creator, ancestors, help

(19:14):
this little point, help him. I don't know what to
do with him, but make him feel loved, make him
feel wanted, make him feel sacred. And I stay there
for like two minutes, just praying. And then he turns around,

(19:34):
You want to play. That wasn't me, that was his grandmother,
his great say, you can trust this one, right see.
And the journey to healing, the first step is acknowledgment
that I see you. I see your sacredness behind all

(19:56):
the wounds and all the fronting and all the smoking
dope and all that and all that. I oh, man,
do I see you? But you don't see you? Right?
And I finished playing with this little boy, and I
get ready and walk out. And there's an elderly woman
there in the cluster. He's the volunteer. She hasn't credentials,

(20:16):
so they don't let her work with the kids. She
can cut up shapes and do stuff and she's make
up and we can come back to her. Yes, So
you see that little boy. Yeah, he's very angry, I said,
you know that. I know he's very No, not better,
not at the end of you understand what that's not.
His anger has everybody's anger in here, that's all. Did

(20:37):
they put the anger on you? That's generations that's grandpa,
that's his daddy's anger, his grandpa, his great grandpa said,
never got to hear, and he's carrying it. He's only four,
you know, and it so much reminded me of those
days in my life where I felt angry and I
didn't even know what the hell was angering about. You

(21:00):
just feel this because you get these feelings. So I
say that to say that, you know, the journey towards
us gathering people in Cita Coula, it didn't start when
we brought that and it started generations ago. That's part
of our tradition of us gathering that way, you know.

(21:20):
And as part of the acknowledgement of my mom and
my dad, I want to acknowledge my companier a Susanna.
You know, she carries the medicine. Before I left today,
she braided my hair. She blessed me up, you know,
because what I've learned is that the first lesson in

(21:44):
manhood is honoring women. Our mamas gave us life. They
had the closest thing to Creator. They hold us and
then they release us and wait for that breath, you know.
So when we work as men, and you can tell
honorable men, the honored women, honor children that way, you know.

(22:07):
And and when a child comes to this world, we
wait for that breath. And that's why we've seen when people,
when many men are afraid there something are going to
happen to them. You know, Mama, I can't breathe. Mom,
it's that sacred breath, you know. Do you see me?
Can you help me? Can you bless me? Can you

(22:28):
take care of me? Right? And and over these years
seen so many young old men, you know, trying to
breathe into their sacredness that way. You know. I also
am blessed I have. We have five children and seven

(22:49):
grandchildren that teach me so much. Even today you know
about all of this, But but you know, growing up
there in Compton, I learned a lot and and uh
and it wasn't just from my familiar it was from
the community. I had grandma's that taught me. I had
ogs bet that I knows. And even the ones that were,

(23:10):
you know, laced up and doing stuff they shouldn't do,
they still, you know, they still took care of us.
And and and so you know, so this journey, you know,
it's really a sacred journey for me. And I'm trying
to pay attention and do what I need to do.

(23:30):
As my grandsister says that you need to do a
little bit better, I'm trying to do a little bit better,
you know, because I didn't play the game the way
you want me to play it. That that tomorrow when
we play, I'm going to teach you to play a
little bit better. Okay, I want to play it. And
he says we got to go out and play together.
You mean together me? No together, and you say to

(23:52):
get no, no to deather. And what I begin understood,
I went to Deather is a little bit deeper than
than together. And he's got a deeper knowledge of how
he wants me to flow with him, you know. And
and and that's really you know, my blessing is that
this journey has really helped heal me. But it's also

(24:17):
helped heal generations. And and one time I was speaking
to this psychological convention, a bunch of psychologists, and and
I was talking. I was speaking about all of this
and and and then a story came to me that
that my spirit had blocked out. You know sometimes there,
you know, you experience things and and you block it out.

(24:40):
You just don't remember between certain ages what and and
you know, therapists would say, you know, it would categorize
that as some kind of you know, issue or dysfunction
you need to deal with. What I've understood from the
traditional medicine people is no, you're the grandmas are holding
that until you're ready to see it. So as I
was speaking, I was speaking in front of thousand people,

(25:03):
and this story came up with my dad and I
began sharing it. And because it's the first time that
I experienced it first time, I started crying, and not
just regularly. I was it wasn't lit spirit creser, I
can't you know, you can't even talk. And I started
doing that and I toldly, excuse me, and then I
need to get some water. And then I stepped off

(25:23):
and got a little bit of water and dried my tears.
And then I came back and I finished telling the story,
and then I and then I finished right and after
some people came up to talk to me. And there
was this one psychologist, this twite dude psychologist that came
up to me, and he says, you know, you're a
good speaker. To appreciate and everything you shared, he says,
but I noticed that during your presentation. You know, you

(25:45):
went to a very deep traumatic place. You know, I
study this, and I know what kind of trauma that is.
You know, let me recommend some therapy for you, certain
kind of therapy so that you don't cry, you know,
when you're in experience, you know. And I you know,
I thanked them, Thank you very mud, thank you for
being concerned about me, and thank you for offering me that.

(26:08):
But let me share something to give what I've learned
from from my elders and from ceremony and all of that,
that those aren't my tears. Those are my daddy's tears
when I told that story. Those are my grandpa's tears.
Those are my great grandma's tears. I don't want to
stop crying because I'm trying to heal them, and I'm crying,

(26:28):
so I don't pass on this to the next generation.
So I'm gonna keep crying, you know, let me invite
you to join me in my ceremony of how to heal. Right,
And I think that's what all of this is about.
It was the ancestors were guiding me to create spaces

(26:49):
so that you know, the men, the grandsons, the sons
could come together in the sacred space. So first of all,
they were seen as sacred, they were held as sacred.
Let's let's do the healing for your ancestors and for
that next generation.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Right, Well, that's something well, first, thank you for being
so open and vulnerable.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
And for.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Sharing a story that was so layered with history, ancestry,
ceremony system structures, and the tension between the Western way
of wanting to stigmatize or hypothesize or you know what

(27:41):
I mean, like the deficit. And its something that I
that I always get when I come to gom Bothers
network events that you just modeled was it's never just.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
About the person.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
It's about the family, the community and the ecosystem of
our ancestors healing alongside us. And this dance in this acknowledgement,
like the way that you pour love into others by
seeing them for who they are. It works also in

(28:16):
seeing your ancestors on this plane and acknowledging them. I
would love for you to tease out a little bit
more of the practices, you know, the ways that you
have seen work to bring us men back home to ourselves,

(28:37):
given that we are holding so much immense pain that
the society doesn't want us to express, which is why
you're creating spaces, safe containers for expression. But what are
some of the things that you've seen ancestrally work for
us men that are struggling right now.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
You know, it's interesting because when we talk about traditions
and customs and ceremony, this society wants to make it
very mythological. Yeah, you know, that's what it did way
back then. But ceremony is every day. And the ceremony
was with my grandma blessing me that way. Ceremony was

(29:23):
my dad. You know, we're going to visit my aunt,
and we get in his car and his buick and
before the seatball lulls, you can take all your kids
with you. Abouy eight or nine. I was in there
right one. I was laying on that window spot up there.
I'm sitting on my sister's bony knees and put the
baby on the floor by and we cruise right and
my dad, in his loud voice, reminds us, hey, before
you get to a before, when you get your theas house,

(29:44):
when you go inside, before you run and play, you
hug and kiss everybody, right And it took half an
hour to get in the damn door, just to hug
and kiss everybody right now. What I didn't understand is
that ceremony. And what my dad was saying is you acknowledge,
you acknowledge people. I see you, thank you for being

(30:06):
I gonna see you, and and you see that the neighbor.
What's up, brother? What's going man? What's what's what you've
been for? I mean that acknowledgement right from a from
a global standpoint. The opposite of that is racism. I
don't see you. I don't I mean, what's going on.
We don't want to see you. We're gonna take you out.

(30:28):
We're gonna take you out literally, or we're gonna lock
you up. Are we gonna deport you, or we're gonna
take away anything that teaches anything significant about you. We're
gonna make you not like yourself, one like you hate
yourself so much that you hate people that look like you.
What makes you you so wounded that you will hurt

(30:49):
the person that you married, that you love. You're gonna
make you hurt your We're gonna take all this and
transmit it in such a way that you're reacting stuff
you're not even yourself anymore, right, And so that very
simple act of my father saying you greet you acknowledge
is such a significant part of the ceremony. And you know,

(31:12):
and I see it, you know, I see it, you know,
and I saw it in the neighborhood, and you got
intricate dapping of how you, I mean all kinds of
you know, I got a special one for you and
a special one for you, and you know, I mean
we greet each other. We acknowledge each other, you know
that way. And it's the very same thing, you know

(31:34):
when in neighborhoods, you know that we acknowledge each other.
But if we're talking about ceremony too, the first step
of any type of you coming back to a sense
of healing is that's acknowledge you and and just going
around circle to share who you are. And a lot

(31:55):
of people have difficulty share who I am. They share
their name, but who you connected to I don't know,
I mean, because it's been taken out of you. Right,
And so the aspect of ceremony really has to do
with with you acknowledging who you are in your total sense,

(32:15):
you know, and and what I mean total sense is
you can't have night without day and day without day.
We have the light and we have the dark. Right,
So I have some blessing things in me, but I
have some struggles in me too, right, And can I
trust you enough for you to hear both sides of
me and you not reject me, you still hold me,

(32:36):
you still. So ceremony is that you come wholly, you know,
into a ritual, into a practice in which we can
be together and then trust each other right, love each
other right and and and respect each other. And so

(33:00):
you know, whether it be in a sweat lodge, whether
it be in a teepee ceremony, or whether it be
in a cityculo. You know, I know for me, music
was a really big part of my ceremony and my healing.
You know. In my house, you know, music was very
city and my dad loved Lancero's and the Boletos. You know,
you would hear you know, I mean you would hear

(33:22):
that and hear my dad would take a shower. He
thought he could sing, we'd sing, you know. But my
brothers and sisters were you know, they were in the oldies.
You know. He's day through my window. I watch as
in my sister and the oldies all in the same house,
you know. And and and I noticed that when, especially
after my father died, when I would get sad, I'd

(33:45):
get depressed. I would get anxious. I'd go in the
garage alone, alone, close the door. It's dark. We had
a piano in there that my dad had gotten from
somebody in trade or some work that they couldn't pay him.
So I had a piano, and and I know how

(34:06):
to play piano. But I begin fooling around, and I began.

Speaker 4 (34:11):
Just you're my love, You're my angel, You're the girl
of my dream. I want to thank you for loving,
just loving me.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Dad, he's home, and i'd feel my father, Dad, he's
home to stay, you know. I sing to my dad,
you know, and i'd feel him, you know. And what
I didn't understand at the time that music the vibration, right,
dislodge certain things in my body. Right. So so it's

(34:50):
it's a similar thing when you go to ceremony. Hey
hey hey yeah he yah hey hey. Now that's an
ancient song. So we believe that when we sing, like
I said, the ancestors sing too, right, and if we

(35:12):
sing together, there's a vibration that goes on. You know,
people are in the mindful of meditation. All okay, cool, right,
that's good. But the sense of us singing our songs,
you know, and you know in the neighborhood, you know,
there were certain songs that you played. Man, people could
be up, but their bodies started moving different. It's like yeah, yeah,

(35:33):
you know, because it's it's a genetic memory of a time,
you know, when I felt good. So you go to
a party, play certain song. You forget about everything going on.
You're just dancing, you're just grooving. You know. The music
that our people have cultivated, right, that either go on

(35:53):
in the streets or in the neighborhoods or the parties,
but also in ceremony, right, is our way of recon
connecting with a rhythm, reconnecting with a balance, reconnecting with
a vibration. That makes us feel whole again. Right, and
then you had some medicine. You had the sage or

(36:14):
the copylea or whatever that also have, you know, a
very strong medicinal element to it. Now, if you do
that over and over again, then as soon you let
that bialosanto and you know, I was there. All you
have to do is light it. And I was in
ceremony again because so many times I've been, you know,

(36:34):
in ceremony and lit that. So there was a genetic
memory that hit my body. My body felt different. I said, okay,
I'm ready now let's go right. And people don't understand,
you know, and in the neighborhood, how did we do
it right? We did ceremony too. We acknowledged everybody. You know,
sometimes the homies would be down like that with a
bottle of Boons Farm or something and they pour it

(36:55):
a little bit for one of the homies to acknowledge them,
and then they go around, you know, go around and
rich and acknowledge everybody like that. So, you know, sometimes
we make things very mythological, but it can be day
to day and it's really just that acknowledgement. It's really
recognizing the sacredness. But then you begin to learn, and
I begin to learn that are our ancient traditions. You know,

(37:20):
there were certain teachings that went on. So when you
talk about sacred manhood, you know, and you've been in
ceremony too, so you understand that there's a four directions.
And what I begin to understand is that, you know,
one direction is the direction of the east, which is
the masculine direction, right, and in that maskin direction is
when that sun rises, right, So part of the maskin

(37:42):
is to bring the light right. And in that light
the you're gives you your DNA changes your your vitamins,
your d D vitamins change, and it creates metabolism, but
it also creates a protection right in your body, so
that that masculine direction really is a part of bringing light,

(38:03):
you know, that sense of sacred fire, all of that, right.
And then you have the feminine direction, you know, which
is the direction of the west, right, and that's the nurturing,
that's the direction of nurturings, of compassion, of love of
you know, unconditional love of you know, all of that.
And then you have the direction of the children the south,

(38:23):
which is play and laughter and joy, and you know,
and just having fun man, just you know. And then
the final direction of that of the elders right the north, wisdom,
you know, being wise and how you do things, trusting
the ancestors, medicine, all that. So the aspect that happens
many times in the colonization is they say you belong

(38:47):
to that direction of the mask and it stay there,
and so you can only be a protector. You only
be this. No, you're awful. And the aspect of sacred
manhood is being able to move in the direction that
you need to at the time. You know. I you know,
my whole life have dealt with violence in communities, in families,

(39:11):
you know, dealing with it you know today and all
of that, and so and I teach you know about
how to manage anger and how to deal with your
anger and all that, you know, and I haven't, you know,
I don't, not the type of person that really emotes
that a lot, that anger. But if somebody stepped in
right now and wanted to hurt you, I'm stepping up.
I'm stepping up. It ain't no more gonna hurt you

(39:32):
now when you're with me, I'm stepping up, bro, you know.
And people call me anger, but hey, they ain't gona
mess with you, ain't gonna mess with my people, you know.
But when the danger's gone, I put that down and
let me quote to that other feminine direction. Maybe you
need a little nurturance. I need to hug you now,
I need to bless you off, you know, and then
maybe someone we just need to laugh and play, you know,

(39:54):
but maybe there's some wisdom that we can learn from this.
So the aspect of truth, and I saw it in
the neighborhood. I saw it in the community, you know.
I saw the elders, some of the OG's, and the
elders had those directions, you know. The the workers in
the community, I see it. You know, they had that.
They weren't seen that way, but they had that. And

(40:17):
so that becomes then if you will the vision of
where you want to go, that you can move. So
I can go with my little grandkids and play in
a silly way, make silly voices and all kinds of things.
I'm going to do things, you know. And that's the
reason why I began to write children's books, right. I
began to write children's books because I wanted my children.

(40:39):
I wanted to have a connection with them, right. And
at that time, you know, some forty years ago, they
didn't have any books on culture, and they had Goldilocks
and three Bears. But I know, nobody with Goldilocks, and
they were eating porridge. I don't know what the hell
porridge is. So I changed the damn story. It wasn't
Goldilocks anymore. It was Trensons, Bonitas and the Badio bears,
and Papa Bear wasn't eating porridge, beans and rice and tortillas.

(41:01):
And when it got too hot and they say, oh
my gosh, she said, equila, you know, and you begin
telling the stories. Right. But but and that was my
way of cultivating that child's spirit in me, but also relating,
you know, to the children, not only the children, but
the men whose child's spirit never got read to, never

(41:23):
got nurtured. Never. We're given permission to be able to
play and just be silly man, you know. And so
it's the cultivation of all of that that becomes ceremony,
you know, it becomes ceremony that way. And so day
before yesterday I was there at my son's house with
our grandchildren, and and they know how to pray. We're

(41:48):
gonna eat that that we're gonna pray. Okay, okay, you
say it that that you say it, you know. And
then and then so I said, you want to say something, Yeah,
I want to say I'm thankful for my backyard, I'm
thankful for my mama, I thank well, I like chocolate doughnuts,

(42:08):
and that I'm thankful for you too. That's ceremony. This
little boy is already ingratitude. Right. We see a lot
of people in life that are so wounded they can't
be grateful, you know, because they're stuck in the hurt
and the pain. And so, you know, ceremony is many,

(42:31):
many things. But once we reintroduce, you know, many of
our people to these ways, take it home. It's not
you don't just do this once a year to retreat.
You take it home. Make it part of your life,
make it part of who you are, you know. And
sometimes we have to step in to places in which

(42:54):
there's been harm, where there's been a vacant absence. I
was working with this young man, fifteen year old young man,
and they'd referred the permission officer referred him to me
because he was a fighter. He was getting in fights
and getting kicked out of schools, and he was there.
He didn't really want to come to therapy. So I'm
sitting there talking to and playing some music and stuff.
And the first two sets he didn't talk very much, right,

(43:16):
And we're there for the third session and then we
finished and I said, okay, we're done. Man, he says, hey,
you think you'd give me a ride home? And I said, well,
I'd love to get I'll give you a bus token
and you can ride the bus for you. I can't
ride bus. Man's goes to two other neighborhoods. The foods
take me out and back then then have uber lift.

(43:38):
Whose taxis? I said, I'll give you a taxi voucher
fool line ride on my neighborhood. A taxi just take
me home. You go that way anyway. I know you
said I was your last clients. It just take me.
I said, I would take you, but the policies and
our agency said we can't transport clients. It's a liability,
you know, So I can call a taxi for you.
And he leaned back back. Then he looked at me.

(44:01):
He said, well, you know what, man, in my neighborhood,
the policy says I shouldn't be here it's a liability.
So what's up. You can get me right home? And
you know, and you know when when they got you,
you know, And and the thing is, the policies say
you're supposed to do a certain way. I heard my

(44:21):
grandma say, yea, take him home. Hm, who do you
listen to? I said, I can make home to meet
me in my car and by the alley. Don't tell nobody.
I'm not gonna write in my notes. And we get
in the car and I'm taking this young man home
and we're driving, and about three or four blocks in,
I look over and I see some tears coming out

(44:43):
of eyes, and I said, make what's the matter? No,
not that it's just my sinuses. Sometimes, you know, we
play it off like that, I said, because it's not
your science. Why are you crying? Well, okay, well I'm
gonna tell you. You know. You know I didn't grow

(45:03):
up with my dad, so yeah, I know you didn't. Well,
when I was a little boy, I always used to
see these kids writing with their dad, and I always wondered, like,
who would be like to write with a dad? And
I never know what it was like to write with
a dad. And he says, I know you're not my dad,

(45:25):
but at least I kind of know what it's like to.

Speaker 5 (45:28):
Write with a dad. Now, he says, thank you forgiving
me I write home. I'm not gonna tell nobody, he says.
And I'm sorry that I don't talk, he says, But
all these things in my head, I don't know how
to put words to all these things that go on
and make me crazy and make me not sleep and
make me not like. But I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try.
I'm gonna try and do better because I want to

(45:48):
be better. I want to I don't want to fight.
I don't like fighting all the time, but sometimes I
don't know what else to do because I don't know
how to say words to that.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
I became his father mm hmm, and it dislodged something
and that young man transformed why because I gave him
a ride home? M right. But symbolically he wanted to know,
how much do you care about? Are you going to
stretch beyond the policies procedures because on what you're required

(46:22):
to do? Do you love me enough? Do you see
me enough? We welcome me that way, and once you
show up that love, it's like all right, let's go,
let's go.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
I'm my eyes are burning. There's no since is I
was gonna ask. I mean, we're living in uh dramatic times,
you know, of intense systematic erasure and uh taking us

(47:07):
away from these traditions and our history. There's a lot
of challenges, and ah, I don't want to I don't
want to focus on the challenge so much as like,
what is giving you hope right now? You know, Uh,
it's more than five decades. Like you said, this is

(47:28):
generational work that you've been blessed and called to do.
But what is giving you hope in this in this
present moment in time.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
I was in Sacramento on Monday doing the training and
this young man, twenty two year old's there and he is,
we're doing the cord and to introduce yourself, and you
introduced himself. He says he's from Stockton, and he says,

(48:01):
I just want to give gratitude. He says, because I
was a young man that was that was struggling. You know,
I was banging and drugging and hurting my family and
doing all kinds of stuff. And he says, and then
you came and you smoke, and you cried and you

(48:26):
were real and you told me I was sacred, and
I didn't believe you. At the time. I didn't believe.
But I heard that and I remember that. And then
I went through who a Noble. I went through the
one of the programs. This isn't it. By the end
of the program, I believe I could be sacred, he says.

(48:47):
And now you know, I'm going to be a facilitator.
I'm going to teach those young men, mister tell you.
I want you to want to thank you, you know,
for doing this work, you know, because it's not going
to end with you. I'm going to make sure those
stories that you tell I'm going to tell those stories now,
you know. So it's it's seeing the young people, the

(49:10):
next generation, you know, and and seeing this, it's seeing you.
It's seeing you know that that you write a book
about this. We're having a podcast about this. And when
I started this year's I mean, you don't how much
pushback I got. I mean not only I mean the

(49:31):
first time, you know, because I was doing a lot
of this work. And I'll tell you, you know, during
the Chicano Movement, in the civil rights move we're right
in it. I was during the what they call the
wats riots or blowouts, and I was entering high school.
So there's a National Guard on the corner of my house,
right and I would walk to school and you know,
I mean there's National Guards again, there's not new, you know,

(49:51):
they're right on the corner with the tank on the
corner of my house. And me and my friend walking
to school and they're cat cocking their ak forty seven.
It's like, what the ful, you know, And they look
at me and smile, and it's like, what the hell
should we go to school? My mom'sid yeah, but these
fools a right here and my grandma, you know, got
to go to school. And we walk to school and
I get to school and my leg's shaking and I'm

(50:13):
thinking about all shit. I didn't learn nothing that day, man,
you know, but I'm nervous, and you know, and you
get anxious in your body, and you know, all all
of those things you know, go on and and and uh,
you know, and and the thing is that that you know,
as much as I saw that and felt that, and
then you know, the Civil rights movement she came over.

(50:35):
That gave me a sense of pride and my people
you know, and taught me about injustice and all that,
and I began then to say no, we need this,
And then I said, well, I'm gonna help heal my people.
I go become a therapist. And the training that I
got was not about healing us. It was about diagnosing us.
It was about medicating us. It was about you know,
giving reason to to lock us up, incarcerat or deport

(50:59):
or takes away. It wasn't about healing us. So but
as I was, you know, in there doing this work,
the thing that really jacked me up is they were
sending me black and brown men. There were being accused
for domestic violence, for gang violence, for drug dealing, for

(51:20):
child abuse, and they looked like me. They looked like
my dad. I'm very proud of my people, but I'm saying,
why are we hurting ourselves? Why are we hurting our wives?
Why are we hurting our kids? So it caused this
disconnecting me deep, and there was nothing being offered to
help heal you know what I mean. So I said, well,

(51:42):
then okay, and I talked. You know, I had some
other camaradas that you know that we're doing work as therapist,
as teachers, as advocates said, let's come, let's create our
own stuff. Man, you know, let's just create our own
you know. And so that's how Competits Ever started. Me
and Ricardo Carrillo another psychologists. We invited back. Thing. You
had to send flyers out, right, So we send flyers

(52:03):
out in the bottom of the flyer. We knew our people,
and we knew I put no alcohol, no drugs. Some
of my best friends. Man, the social works fool. I
mean we can't. We can't drink the whole weekend. No,
how about the night after n fool man, I can't
go the whole with Come on, man, we're doing ah.
I passed this time and beat the women there na man,
sh you know, beast doing. No, dude, we're gonna do

(52:25):
the whole weekend. We're gonna half my friends didn't show up,
but nineteen guys shut up, right and uh, And we
knew enough by that time. I was into you know, ceremony,
and we knew enough that you know, you you started
with a prayer. You ask the ancestors to come in.
And that's where you got to be careful. When you
ask the ancestors to come in, they're coming in. Yeah,

(52:47):
and you're not guiding no more. And so we started
according to sementa, who are you? Why are you here?
And the second brother in that began to share, shared
about you know, he wants to help our community and
all that. But then he says, you know, but what's
really bother me right now? As I'm losing my family.
Now this is he's a prominent therapist, you know, nice house,

(53:07):
he says, but I'm losing my family. I don't know.
I love my wife, I don't know how to connect
with my kids. And he starts to cry. Now, some
forty years ago, when black and my men cried, that
was unusual, right, I was like, what.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
You know?

Speaker 2 (53:21):
I mean, we cried and when we got tore up
and you know, our funerals maybe but not straight up like.
And he'd beg in the cries, like, what's what's going
on here? I thought this was a meeting to develop,
you know. But he started crying and then he went deeper,
he says, and I know why. And he says, and
I'm gonna share something with you your brothers here that
I never share with nobody. It's because I was sexy

(53:43):
abused as a kid. And he began to wail. And
when he began that spirit like that, we all started crying.
We all start ugly crying. And it's like the answers
to say, before you go out and heal somebody, better
heal yourself. Because as much as we were doing good work,

(54:05):
a number of us were still very you know, being
very you know, paternalistic and misogynistic and still smoking a
little dope. And still you know, the people that were
doing the work, we had not done our work. And
what hit us at that first you know, retreat, is
that the most revolutionarything you can do is you heal yourself,

(54:31):
call back your spirit, come back to the true sacredness
of who you are as men before you think you
can help somebody else. And that's the impetus of what
we do. It's not out there. You do the work
in here. How you treat each other, you know, and
it's always been an ongoing thing, especially in communities of color,

(54:54):
you know, black and brown and all of that. No,
that's part of our ancestors medicine. If you understand the
history of Mexico and all of that, and Vera Cruz,
the African influence. I mean, we've always been together, but
society says, no, no, you're doing. I mean, so we
had to heal that wound too, you know, and in
our native people too. I mean, all of that has come.

(55:16):
So it's come as an evolution, but it starts in here,
and it starts you know, and and part of that
that journey is not the journey forwards, the journey back,
like you're talking about healing your dad's wounds, right, and
healing you know, all of that. It's it's it's a
combination of all of those. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
So before my last question, as a young I'm choosing
my words intentionally as a young elder who embraces all
the energies of the four directions and being able to
see backward and forward and be here. Now, what are

(55:54):
your words to us men?

Speaker 2 (56:03):
Well, you know, I think honor all your relations, but
it starts with honoring the women. Yeah, honoring the feminine.
It's the same thing, honoring the feminine women, but honoring
the women in our lives. And you know, my mom,

(56:25):
wonderful mother, entrepreneur, she was a seamstress. You know. Well,
my mom didn't play and especially you know, she had
to raise us all when my dad was gone and
she had to raise us. And she didn't play with
a look, man, you know, my mom didn't play. She
was a tough lady, you know, and she would do
things that you know, I didn't understand. I mean, she

(56:46):
had a cleaners and watts and she would get up
early in the morning and make beans and rice and
burritas and and you know, and she's making fun. Why
are you making the food? Why I'm taking it to
my people? Mom? You're giving away her food? You know
what's going on? And you would take half of our food?
Are the cleaners? And then people would come and get
their clothes, but also the people, the houseless, she would
just give them food. And I would try, Mom, why

(57:08):
are you going to And then I'd come home after
school because that sometimes have to go work there, and
there'd be people in the back, you know, and you
could tell there were houseless people, some running the streets,
some on the streets, some of them heads on the street.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
You know.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Okay, Mom, these people gonna rip out. They're my friends,
you know. And and i'd you know, it's just like
I would challenge, they're gonna rip offor they're gonna take
your clothes, They're gonna rip you know, leave them alone.
They're my friends, you know.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
And and.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Again the wats Lots came right burning all kinds of
buildings everything. We're watching the news and right on my
mom's block were cleaners was they were burning, and my
mom begins to cry and just they're gonna burn down
the building. What am I gonna do? How am I
gonna feed you guys? They're gonna burn my machine. They're
gonna do everything, you know, And I said, Mom, I

(57:58):
don't know, and she started and she was very upset.
And they didn't let us in for like three or
four days, and then she says, well, maybe, you know,
maybe they didn't burn my I can take my machine.
I'll work out of the house. And well let's go,
and so she's going with me, and so I want
to list in a car too too, you know. We
got right there and by Manchester and Broadway, and our
cleanness was right there. And we drew up and we

(58:19):
see all these buildings burned, and we got in front
of her shop and it wasn't burned. And she pulled
up and we got she went to open the front
door and there was a sign on there says thank
you miss Chesse for taking care of us, and my
mom says, you see, you know, so that's my mother.

(58:43):
But my mother wasn't very affectionate and going through therapy
and all of that made me see categorize my mother
and judge her. Therapy in the western way made me
judge my mother and maybe under whether she was connected,
whether we're remonded, you know, not until I talked about

(59:05):
the years later. You know, we're talking about my mom
and I giving praise for mom and everything, and she says,
you don't know what your mom went through. They lived
in in Neguadez, has to come across and work, and says,
you don't know what these women went through working these houses,
men violating them. Don't you ever judge your mother? Right?

(59:29):
And then I got it, Oh shit, my mom wasn't
just my mom. She was a woman, and she went
through all the horrible things that women, immigrant women, disenfranchised
women went through and still needed to be a mom.
And so you know what I want to tell you know, men,

(59:53):
is forgiveness. It's really important. Doesn't mean you forget, doesn't
mean it was right, but forgiveness honored the women, the
forgiveness of those that have come before your mom and
your dad, your relationships, you know, But then the commitment

(01:00:14):
to heal yourself, to do the healing not only for
yourself but for the generations, and then to extend that
to those that need that, you know, or in your life.
And and and find your ceremony, find your medicine, find
your ceremony, find your elders. You know, we all need elders,

(01:00:37):
you know. And let me just make a you know,
there's a room between an elder and older, and some
of you are just old, right, They're still struggling, they're
still doing the crazy. You know, an elder is different,
and the elders is recognizes that you need to do
your healing, need to walk your talk, and that you're
still on that path, but that you know, you do
it with a sense of compassion in a good way.

(01:00:58):
The olders we still need to respect, we still need
to pray for and help them. But you know, sometimes
the olders are just older.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Well, let's get into this section called the Sacred Five,
because these conversations have in medicine and healing for myself
for sure, all of us in here. But it's our
way for folks that are watching or listening to take
practical things home with them. So I'm going to ask

(01:01:33):
five questions that you can answer in a word or
a sentence. So the first thing is, name three things
that make you feel safe, connected.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
And whole, my ancestors. You know, this society wants to
make you individuals. And you know, no, I don't come alone.
You know, even when I'm in the worst place, I

(01:02:03):
know my answers is with me. And that that just
makes such a difference. You know, my family, you know,
my wife, my kids, and I have beautiful kids. You know,
my kids, we got good relationships because we teach each other.

(01:02:26):
They teach me, I teach them, but we love each other.
You know, my grandkids, you know, just those grandkids, just
and I have you know a lot of people that
call me THEO call me, call me, you know, And
so that's all part of my family, you know too.
And then and then the healing medicine, you know, the rituals,

(01:02:48):
the traditions that have that I've incorporated. You know, I
mean part of that is is music and singing, and
you know, and and but but also the practice of
what we do and and and that in la catch
you know that that you are my other me and
the people that around me. That that that that I

(01:03:12):
get to walk with and learn from and work with
and share with as well. Yeah, oh, thank you. What's
one song book or a prayer that grounds you. There's
a prayer song that a blessing prayer song that me
and my company sing. Can I sing please? Yeah? Yeah yeah,

(01:03:35):
and we sing it says a blessing. It's a welcome song.
It's a blessing song. Hey hey hey hey hey yeah
hey io hey yeah yah yah soul hey yeah hey hey,

(01:04:01):
author Nansene he uh here are you ermanoganto he yeah,
he er mana oh.

Speaker 4 (01:04:17):
He uh here you Nailona hey yeah here and clocking
out walk hey yeah here you hey? Hey are you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
Here? Hey?

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
Hey?

Speaker 5 (01:04:45):
I you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
He he you?

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Oh my whattel that's y, thank you for that. Messing
Mama as this but you've been saying it the whole time.
But is there one daily ritual practice that you do
every day keep you centered?

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:05:10):
You?

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
My wife get up. She makes me coffee and we
drink coffee together, and we pray. We pray together, we
drink coffee. Sometimes she'll make me a little toaster and
a special day, I get a donut but you know

(01:05:30):
that that sacred ritual of herne together and she gets
mad if I make that. She's no, no, I get
to make the coffee for you, you know. But that
that sacred connection between her and I. You know that
I have the blessing of having a companion that loves me,

(01:05:51):
It takes care of me, that accepts me even on
my bad days, you know, but is a strong woman
and will call me my ship. You know. But that
we can sit together every morning bas a, look at
us whatever, we're good day, but we're gonna sit together,
and we're gonna pray and we have some coffee in
beginning the day, you know. And and what I realize

(01:06:14):
is that's what a lot of I saw the elders do,
a lot of people in my father had a little whatever,
you know, that was a prayer, that was a ritual,
you know. And and and when I'm traveling, I missed
that so much, a Maro. I missed that so much,
just sitting down and having that coffee, and you know,
it's looking at her face and giving greater thanks for

(01:06:34):
her and for everybody, you know, And you know it's
that time that we we also acknowledge everybody that needs
prayers at that time, you know. So, yeah, that's beautiful.
What's your Susana, Susana, Yeah, yeah, Susana, she's a done
son that she's been. She does this work. You know,
she's with Kombata. She they're over her and Master Debba

(01:06:57):
or over all the women and girls, you know. And
I want to say something that that, you know, it's
really really important that we as men advocate for the women.
The girls are too spirited transit, I mean, we need
we need to advocate because we have caused harm to

(01:07:17):
to many of them, and we need to take responsibility
for lifting them up, supporting, getting funding, getting support for
them to be able to do their healing right. It's
part of our responsibility to to do that, to create space,
but also to to advocate so that them with the
women and the and the girls and all the all

(01:07:39):
the you know, the the other relatives can can do
their healing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
What's one small action that listeners can take today on.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
Their healing journey? My saying and I have you know,
little gifts that I give up might give you one,
but says I am blessed, I'm sacred, and I'm a blessing.
We need to say that to ourselves every day, but

(01:08:08):
we need to say that to each other, right, you
know that sense of and and you know it's hard
for someone us to think of us as ourselves as
a blessing and a sacred you know, but we are.
You know, we are that way. And you know, I
mean as much as I say it, you know my
goal is to act that way. And that's the challenge.
How do I act in a sacred way where those

(01:08:29):
people piss me off and people that you know that
they're challenging and you know, the stuff is going on
in the world is hard to act in a sacred
blessed way. And sacred blessed way doesn't mean you don't
advocate and you're not out there, you know, fighting, you know,
for rights, and it doesn't mean that. It means you
do it in a sacred and blessed way. You don't
do it angry to hurt somebody. You do it to
defend and really represent and to bring sacredness to all

(01:08:52):
people like that. But that sense of that I am
a blessing and I am sacred is the fundamental for teaching.
If we could see all people as as sacred and
as a blessing. That's that first step to the world healing.
And not just the people, the plants, the animals, the
two legged, four legged, the you know, all our relations well.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
Last question, Share a one line blessing or quote that
inspires you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
My mom says, Miko, it's a must. I said, we're
here to serve others, and she meant it literally two
people going, we have to serve, you know. But really
it's it's that sense of service. It's that sense of giving.
It's that sense of you know, sharing, you know, it's
really that sense of you know that in La catch

(01:09:50):
when I share with you, it comes back to me
and you know, we you know, and I feel my
blessings is because you know, you share me let them
call when they come back. So many ways. You know,
my kids I remember in growing up, says, you know, Dad,
you know, I'm lucky. Look what happened today. I'm glad
you got that fortune. But because you're lucky, it's because
somebody's praying for your Grandma's up there praying for you.

(01:10:11):
And you know the times in which I got out
of stuff, you know, I'm at a party, drank too
much of it, but I got to drive home, you know,
and I'm driving and I'm saying, should I just hope
the cops will stop me? And then I see a
cop and you get holy then and I hope that,
you know, and they pass by, you know, and I
think I'm all back ship the fully won't stop me.
And then I stopped and another stops. See another cop there,

(01:10:33):
and oh shit, you know, trying to you know, and
you pray again and and and then you the cop
passes you by and you get home. He says, litee shit,
you know, I'm all that. And you walk in and
you see your mom pray, and you realized it wasn't
you at all. It was those prayers. So that the
inner connection with the sacredness is so important. And that's

(01:10:56):
what all of this is about the work you're doing.
It's work that all of us are doing. How do we,
you know, bring that sacredness within us, but share it,
you know, and cultivate it and create space where people
can honor it, and then and then bless themselves and
give it outa thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
Jerry usually wrap up all these conversations with sharing back
lessons that I learned from the conversations or reminders or
powerful words medicine, that we are shared. And the first

(01:11:37):
thing I wanted to just say is I see you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Thank you for.

Speaker 1 (01:11:42):
Reminding us that it starts with acknowledgment and that being
able to see someone and look them in the eye,
and that's the doorway to spirit. And when I look
at you, I just I blossom because it's in the guesh.

(01:12:06):
I'm seeing mirrors, not just me, of all of us.
So number one, thank you for that. Number two, you
have reminded us that healing is our right, are divine right,
and that healing.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Is possible.

Speaker 1 (01:12:29):
No matter what we do or where we come from,
but that healing is a communal journey. It's something that
the Western mind wants us to think we have to
do it alone, but that causes more harm. And so
thank you for building spaces where we can be ourselves.

(01:12:51):
We can return home. And the last thing that you
said that I will take with me forever is that ceremonies,
all the little things, all the blessings, the ga facito
in the morning with your loved one, the playing with

(01:13:13):
your granddaughter, your son's child, of remembering the sacredness of
the four elements and the four directions, and the four energies,
and that being sacred, manhood, or being whole is acknowledging
and embracing all of that. And so it's funny because

(01:13:37):
you keep the words that you keep saying is that
you are a blessing and your sacred. And I've been
saying for the past eight months being on this journey,
this particular journey, is I look at men in the eye,
I look at women, I look at people, and I
always tell them three things. I say, you are not alone,

(01:13:58):
you are loved, and you are sacred.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
And that has been it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
And the person that reminded me of my sacredness was
my Susannah was Glaudia, my wife. She's actually the reason
why the book's even called Sacred Lessons. I was trying
to find the ways and the words, and my wife
is brilliant and she's I'm where I am because of her,

(01:14:28):
and it was her brilliance, her ancestors. I said, hey,
you know what, maybe you should call your books sacred
lessons because we are sacred, and your dad's lessons are sacred,
and they're mortal and they're timeless and they're all of us.
And so that's why when I look you in the eye,
and I hear you say these words, I'm like, dang,

(01:14:48):
there are no accidents in life. We are supposed to
be exactly where we are.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
And so I thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:54):
I honor you for your body of familiar work, ancestral
work of bringing us back home to each other. I
feel a sense of pure love, joy, innocence, all of it.
So thank you for blessing us, all of us, with
these words and this medicine to.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
Well. I appreciate you, brother, and I appreciate your reflections
and your teachings. And you know, the hope that we
have is you know, and that's you know. What I've
learned is that we're in the sex of soul, the
sixth son, sixth son, and it's the time in which

(01:15:40):
the feminine has the guide the women basically, but also
the feminine one of this. If we don't guide with
that feminine, we're going to replicate harms. And I think
what I see in you and your work is you
lifting up the feminine so that we can embrace that

(01:16:01):
with a masculine, the duality, but at the same time
embrace each other along this journey. And it's not over.
It's you know, we My dad would say prepare because
we gotta. It's gonna be a tough road, but you know,
this world is going to heal because of us, because

(01:16:26):
the indigenous people, the people of color, that in spite
of everything they've tried to do, they couldn't take our
spirits where we still got it. We're still grooving, we're
still singing, we're still flowing, you know, and now we're
just put it into words and traditions and values and
rituals and ceremonies, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:48):
And so.

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
It's beautiful. It's beautiful to be here with you.

Speaker 3 (01:16:53):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
I appreciate you. Thank you for the work that you do.
Thank you for allowing me to be here with you,
and and you know, and anything that I can do,
anything that I can do to support, you know, this
journey to collaborate gistamos, you know, but I say, yeah,
thank you, Jerry.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
Sacred Lessons is a production of My Heart's Michael through
our podcast network, Sacred Lessons Media, and the Prince Group.

Speaker 2 (01:17:24):
For more of your favorite

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
Shows, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.