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September 24, 2018 64 mins

FYI!!! Carla Marie is no longer the host of a morning show in Seattle but she is still supporting small businesses in every way possible. She’s even started her own small business with her radio cohost and best friend, Anthony. All of the links below will help you stay up to date!

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
For a lot of people. You know, why are you when?
Do you know what you want to do? And this
is something you want to do? Do it. I'm a
hustle side side hustle. Do it. I'm a hustle hustle
do it. I'm a hustle side show. I'm a hustle
side slow. I'm a hustle side, side hustle. Come on
ask about me, yo yo. It's the Side Hustless podcast.

We call Yes, it's Carlin Murray. This is the Side
Hustlers podcast. But before we get into this week's episode
and I talked to my next guest, I wanted to
give you a behind the scenes of what's actually going on.
So this past weekend, the weekend when I am recording
this this past weekend, I got everyone who was from
Seattle who had been on the Side Hustlers podcast together

in one place. So I had my first ever Side
Hustlers meet up. We did it at a Laire, Seattle.
Thanks to Shandon, you can actually hear her episode Beside
Hustlers right here on whatever app you're listening on. And
it was really cool to get everyone together and witness
everyone network and also witness people who listened to other
people's episodes and it was a lot of fun. I

had a great feedback. We're going to continue to do
it and then eventually it's going to grow to the
point where whether you're a side hustler, you want to
be a side hustler, whether you've been on the podcast
or not, you can come to one of these events
and hopefully also gained something from it. So if you
have any ideas, or if you live in any cities,
or if you live in Seattle and you listen and

you want to come to one of these, reach out
to me. It's the Carla Marie at gmail dot com.
And what I was going to say, if you live
in any cities where I travel to normally and you
listen to the podcasts and you want to maybe do
a meet up there, also reach out to me because
that would be really cool. But I wanted to mention
Jess Casson got an email from Jess. She lives in Jacksonville, Florida,

and she wanted to tell me that she had been
putting off going back to school for a really long
time and her goal was to get her master's degree
by the time she turns thirty. She's seven, and every
time she tried to go back to school, she kept
putting it off. So she emails and says, it took
three years, but I finally know what I want to do,
and I thank you for that. Listening to your podcast

has given me the chance to finally realize what I
should go back to school for. I know I have
a huge passion for nonprofits and event planning to make
me so happy, but never thought I would amount to
anything within event planning. I'm a board member for the
Scott Cooper Smith Stroke Awareness Foundation based out of Florida,
and I absolutely love everything we do. I found a
master's program for communication management with a concentration in nonprofit

I'm just gonna do it. I have to see if
I can afford it or even qualify for grants, financial aid,
or scholarships, but I'm gonna make it happen. Jess. I'm
so unbelievably excited for you. I'm proud of you, and
I know you can make it happen. There are plenty
of ways out there to make it happen, so Jess,
good luck. I know everyone listening to this podcast is
excited and rooting for you, so without further new. I

am unbelievably excited to talk to this next guest who
I guess I kind of feel like I know because
I'm in the middle of reading her book Unicorn Thirty
Days to Find your Inner Unicorn and live the life
you love. It's Danielle Vincent. Hello, Hello, thank you so
much for having me. So you're coming from Grass Valley,
California right now? Is that where you are? Yes? Indeed,

lovely Grass Valley. I love it. And you're formerly from Seattle,
which I just found out from you. How do you
even got in touch with me? And it's because you
were up here and you heard the show and you
you've reached out earlier this year and it took this
long for me to get in touch with you. But
it's so cool. Yeah. I was doing an event at
the ud Bookstore actually, and they had me there doing

a reading. It was my first ever reading, a first
ever signing. You know, I'm a new author, and I
was dying of excitement, like I just thought I was
going to fall over with excitement the entire time. And
there I was at the udab bookstore where I used
to hang out as a kid, and by my art
supplies and here I am reading my book. It was amazing.

So anyway, I reached out to you because I was there.
I was there and I was like, oh, she's awesome.
So well thanks good to be here very much. So
if you're if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, Unicorn,
what like what is that? But it sounds like a
self help book, Well it is, but Danielle's style of
writing is I almost also kind of feel like I'm
talking to myself. Like I feel like I'm interacting with

you as I read it, but you're so real, You're not.
It's it's maybe you can explain it better, but like
there's cursing in there sometimes, and I'm like, oh, this
is like an actual person who's been through some stuff
is being real with me. And I guess that's the
best way to describe it. Yeah. I wanted something that
was very accessible because I feel like a lot of

self help books kind of are high minded and not
very down to earth, and we're all dealing with really
practical issues, not super high minded theoretical issues. Most of
us are paying rent and going to work and dealing
with traffic and you know, dealing with kids, who aren't
shutting the hell up and stuff like that, and not

to you know, not to use examples from my friends lives,
but but yeah, I mean most of us are going
through life in the non uh situation, and so I
wanted the book to kind of speak to Hey, you're
in real life and these are this is real Tuch,

and I'm a real person who has been through these
real situations also, and you know, we're all in this together.
So obviously you've done the book, which is great, and
we're going to get more into that later. But that
is just one of your many side hustles that you've done,
and I want everyone to understand all of the things
you've been through. But I will say that I fully

endorsed this book as the official book for side hustlers,
and if you don't buy this book, I'm going to
be Matt. That's all I happened. Okay, I'm so glad.
Let's go back to when you were working in corporate
world and you were working for Oprah. I no, you
didn't hear that wrong. Daniel was actually working for Oprah.
So talk a little bit about what your job was there.

So to be clear, I wasn't working directly, although I
did work with her and I had lunch with her once.
She's so awesome. She she is very genuine and wonderful
and terrific. But I'm very bored. I get so bored
so easily, and going to work every single day and

accumulating a four oh one K and being in a
cubicle and you know, just kind of working for this
point where I'll go home and never leave because then
I've retired and that's all that's expected of me, and
then I just die. That doesn't sound interesting at all,
Like that doesn't sound like something worth working for, and

so all these other you know, and it works for
some people. I'm happy for them. Like I really, at
some level wish that I could be one of those people, right,
I mean, like it would be easier, but it wasn't
my path and I couldn't handle it. And I know
so many creative, amazing, interesting, cool people who also can't

handle it. I was doing this day job and going
to work in the morning before the sun rose and
leaving after the sunset, and I almost never saw the
day and I didn't see the blue sky, and I
missed all these things. And this idea of working you know,
for sixty years, so that you could eventually not work anymore. Ever,

did not appeal to me Like that just sounded like
two things that just didn't work for me. Um, because
I love work and I feel like work is part
of who I am. It just is like part of
my growth, It's part of what makes me blossom. And
I've seen so many others. I mean, you know what

I'm talking about. It's just like it makes your heart sing. No,
it's true. Do you remember the point when you said, Okay,
I'm done, I'm leaving, Like, what was it that that
you finally said I'm out. Well, I'll tell you. Um,
I think that there was a combination of things. But
I was leaving work at like one thirty in the morning,

and it was right and I was so depressed, and
I was getting down to the to the garage and
I'm mine was the only car in the garage and
we had just wrapped up the Lance Armstrong Interview website.
So I was responsible for the production of the like

kind of getting the Lance Armstrong Interview on the website. Um,
with the whole team of other people, of course, but
I was there until the end of that and I
got him in the car and I turned on the
radio and on the BBC they were talking about the
Lance Armstrong interview, which means that the BBC had watched
my segment like my thing, because they would have watched

its streaming live. And I was like, that was my jam,
that was my thing, and I was so excited. It
was like I felt all of it was worth it,
all of it, it was worthwhile. Going to work so late,
getting up so early, all these times, making sure that
everything Like I almost threw up that day, and you
might think that that's an indicator of a bad thing,

but my heart was soaring because I felt like I
had finally made a difference that mattered to more than
just me in my little world. And then the next
day I just went back to my regular job and
continued to write specifications for how slide shows should work
and how the you know of doing content for you know,

making sure that the websites for the new TV shows
we're getting built correctly, and and going back to my
daily grind. I was so bored. And I think that
was really the moment, was that when I heard the
BBC talking about it, I felt that feeling of I'm
finally doing something. I am finally making a difference, and
then I couldn't go back, you know, I couldn't go

back from that, Like once you feel that, you can't
go back. And so I knew I wanted to do
something and it was more challenging and more high stakes
than the thing I was doing it at Oprah. So
is that when you you left? And is that when
you can started your soap company with your husband at
that time? So we started the soap company as a

side hustle, so you were, oh yeah. In fact, I
was trying to figure out how to make soap in
the evenings after work and then go to work in
the morning. And you know, like as with an entertainment job,
that's like a full time plus job, and so starting
aside hustle doing that was exhausting, Like I can imagine

when I would find time in my day to make soap,
which by the way, it's Outlaw Soaps and it's Outlaw
soaps dot com right if people want to check it out,
which you're doing a podcast. I mean you basically have
a side hustle too, I mean true, and you do.
I guess you're right. I mean, I mean I do
I and I enjoy this obviously the same way you
enjoy that, But I feel like this is different than

like concocting soap. I don't know that's just but thank you,
well it is. There's a lot of production involved when
you're making a thing, but you're making a thing too.
You have you know, like your birthing at a new
thing every single episode, like and yeah, So we were
learning how to make soap and in many cases doing

bring it badly. But because I used to work in digital,
and you know, at that time I still worked in
digital um and even today I still work in digital,
there's this attitude of well, you know, it's not right,
but it's good enough to ship. And so this concept
is great enough to ship, good enough to ship it is.

It works great for websites, it's not. It's great for production.
Like manufacturing, so because people have standards and you know,
you get something that's disgusting and they don't want to
order from you anymore. So we learned quickly that quality
standards were an important aspect of manufacturing. Hey, I mean

you know of these things. I mean we just didn't
have any idea what the hell we were doing. You
start exciting. So you're and obviously it's still going. It's
great and you guys are still doing this. Oh yeah,
we have such a great time. And now we have
employees and we have a warehouse. We're not in our
like garage anymore. We are you know, we have like

a square foot warehouse and uh employees who go to
work every day, and we have team meetings and I
mean it's quite a thing. So it's safe to say
that the manufacturing quality has stepped up at least a
few games in the last few years. Yeah, we nailed it.
Russ is in charge of production. Actually I'm not the

detailed person, he's the detail You can check out one
of Danielle's side hustles outlaw soaps dot com. So that's awesome. Yes,
so the l soaps thing now is my main hustle
the job. Yeah, and now I just have other side us.
So so I quit that. I quit Oprah to do

full time soap in two thousand thirteen in May and
no April and then and then pretty quickly I got
tired of being broke all the time because entrepreneurial life
is very, very money intensive, and so we were like
living off of credit cards and stuff, and I was like,

we got to do something else. So I my friend
posted it that her that her employer, Mozilla, the company
that makes the Firefox for A browser, was hiring a
social media person. And I was a freelance contract social
media person. I was like, what, I know how to tweet?

And so I wrote her and I said, Hey, do
you need someone to work on your stuff? And she
was like, oh my gosh. I was gonna ask you,
but I figured you were too busy with soap. And
I was like, I'm never too busy for you. And
just like that, I had a new side hustle, right,
and so ten to fifteen hours a week. It's super flexible.

They're really cool. And it's so cool because I get
to work with a different type of person than you know,
like an outlaw. I'm the boss, and being the boss
is freaking stressful. Like it is stressful and people are
counting on you, and you gotta make payroll and you
have to make sure that everything is all you know,

and at a regular or workplace, like when you're working
with a team, you don't have to worry about making payroll,
you don't have to worry about managing like it's so
relaxing to work in a team environment. Yeah. So are
you still at Mozilla? Yeah? Yeah, I still work there
ten to fifteen hours a week. They're awesome. Yeah you are.

You have your own soap company with your husband. You
wrote a freaking book, an amazing book. And you also
it was earlier this year you accepted a job with
Delta Dunk Dental doing some of their workshops. Oh, just
super freelance. That is like the ultimate of side hush.
But that's like that's a mega side hustle. But yeah,
we're doing a goal workshop. I'm doing a webinar for them,

and it's really exciting because my it's such a you know,
it's how, you know, how these things happen. Like my
neighbor's daughter was walking down the street. I used to
go to high school with her. My mom recognized her
and said, oh, Danielle wrote a book. Here's a book,
and so she and the Megan this book. It turns
out Megan works for Delta Dental, and so I said, hey,

do you want to do a webinar like talking about
this stuff because we're trying to do employee and enrichment
programs and my new mantra, which I had decided on
earlier this year that two eighteen is the year of
yet and when somebody says and especially for public speaking
and especially for interviews, and especially for webinars and getting

out there, because I'm kind of a shy person. And
so when she said you want to do this, I
was like, yes, absolutely, you know, and I don't know
how to do a webinar. I didn't know how to
do that. So I've been teaching myself and that's what
that's I mean, I think that that's the thing with
the Deltas thing. It's like it came up and I

just will accept practically anything. And they're not paying me
for it, but they are buying my book for their employees.
So that's amazing. That's incredible. So yeah, I'm really excited.
It's actually better than being paid because then other people
get to read my book. Of course. So you you
said this year was the year of yes for you?
That was your mantra. Now rolls around. Are you going

to have a new mantra? And have you thought about
what it's going to be yet? Yeah? So actually I
wrote something in an interview the other day and I
was like, oh, my gosh, I'm saving that. Don't worry
about lightning in the bottle. Just go outside and look
at the sky, because you know about lightning in a bottle,
it's that one special idea. Like you don't need to

capture one special idea. There's an abundance of ideas out there.
You just go outside, you know what I mean. I
feel like this episode of Side Whustlers is going to
be like part motivation of Oh my god, look at
all these things Danielle is doing. I can do one
of those. It's going to be part therapy session mainly
for me when we get into of the book and

also your standards Side Hustlers podcast. So I'm excited. Can
I show you? So I've started. This is like when
I'm working on now. This is my what I think
is going to be my next book. This is the
first version. This is the draft version of my new planner,
like I had of um so the top the number
one thing was send bullets to Carla Marie. Look at that.

I like, I went to bed and I was like,
I need to start with my day with that, and
so then I had my whole schedule I have. We're
right here, Carla Marie side hustlers, And were you always
like that? Like I? Obviously you can't. No one else
can see that right now. And maybe if there's not
anything too personal in there, you can send me a
picture and I can share it when I share the podcast.

But were you always so organized like that? Oh my god?
Now I have I have diagnosed a d D, so
like I have. Uh yeah, I've been diagnosed with a
d D and depression. And part of my a d
D caused me to want to do a lot of
lists so that I could keep focused. And when I started,

like a couple of years ago, I found that And
this is a Gary Vaynerchuk thing, he said, of what
you do doesn't matter, and so you can delegate it
or do it badly, it doesn't matter. And I thought, well,
of eight of what I do every day doesn't matter,
why am I freaking doing it? Like? Maybe I can

just avoid that stuff and not do it. So this
system was born out of kind of a daily practice
that I just wrote down a new to do list
of five items every day, only the most important five items,
and if there was anything else. There's no running to
do lists, there's no master plan every week. I look

at my goals and I reevaluate what I want to
do that week, and then if something falls off the radar,
if I forget something, it probably wasn't that important. It
was part of that that doesn't matter. Oh my god,
I love this and this is like this could possibly
change my life. So thank you for saying all of that.
But when you said that's the first draft of your

new book, is it or your what your next book
would be? Are you saying you're going to make a
planner for all of us or you're that's where you're
planning your next book. No, so that I'm going to
make a planner, Like, yeah, actually, what I think is
so so I'm making assistant. Actually it's more like I
don't know what it is yet. I'm still formulating. But

I've been using this little this like this thing. This
is a blank one, and I'll send you a blank one. Um.
I've been using this thing for a year now, and
this whole attitude of I have five things, and I
have one really important one and the rest of them
if I can and that really it doesn't matter if

I get to regular. It's such a weird and random
and scary way to live. At first, but once you
realize that you're making tremendous progress and you're way less worried,
it just is so freeing because all of a sudden,
it's like none of that mattered. None of that matters, seriously,
none of that matters. And yeah, it's it's it's amazing.

I can't wait to do this. I'm starting immediately. I
cannot wait. I and I also cannot wait for this planner.
I'm first of nobody trying to get it before me.
It's well, it's going to start with goals, because I'm
big into goals, and I think that goals like and
I have my own goal method thing. Like, everybody is
a different type of person, so they react really differently
to different types of goals. So like some goals are

ongoing goals, and like you know, meditate five times per week,
and people say you have to have specific, measurable, actionable
you know goals. You know, there's time based blah blah
blah whatever that acron it is. And I think that
works for some people and it doesn't work for others.

And then the trap is that when you try something
and it doesn't work, and they say, oh, it's guaranteed
to work. It's totally gonna work for everybody. And it
doesn't work, then you feel shitty and like sorry for swearing.
Then you feel bad about yourself and okay, and you know,
you just feel like, what's wrong with me? And nothing's

wrong with you. Everybody just has a different way of
thinking about things. So the first thing is like figuring
out how you think about goals and what you think
about in terms of progress and what you what the
best road to get there is. You know, some people
like driving on the main freeways, some people like driving
on scenic routes. There's nothing wrong with either um. And
so then figuring out what what the goals are and

then figuring out like putting that into practice, and that's
where the planner comes in. But really it's driven by
where do you want to be? You know? Well, and
that's a lot about what your unicorn it's which by
the way, if you're looking you' if you're trying to
figure out I'm looking up this book and it's not
coming up. It's unicorn. Y ou dash and I see

O R and like you get it? See which? Did there?
I love it? Yes? And it's so unfortunately punned because
now you've got to tell everybody how to spell it.
I'm never say that. I'm sure you didn't think of
that at first, but I did not. It's great. So
it's Unicorn thirty Days to find your inner Unicorn spelled
the normal way and live the life you love. And

you can find it on Amazon. There's a kindle version
as well. You can get the hard copy version, which
question now, Yeah, and I want people to understand if
you don't have the book in front of you, when
you get this book, and I don't mean this in
a bad way, it honestly feels like you're you got
a book in grammar school and you're so excited to
do the activities that are in this book. There's drawings

in there, there's little sketches. Did you actually do those? Yes,
so most of them. There's two drawings that I didn't
do in there because and they're noted um, but I don't.
I'm not an artist by any measter. I'm I'm not
even really an official illustrator. But when we were talking
about this book, my best friend and I we were
kind of you know, I said, I want to do

a book, and she's like, you have to illustrate it.
And I said, well, I'm not, like, you mean, hire
an illustrator, and she's like, no, with your doodle things,
and you know, like you say, that's what it is.
I just didn't. Yeah, and like I'm showing you this,
but I can't nobody else will see it. I made

stickers out of the little worm and yeah, so like
I love the little doodles. But there's you know, there
was a hundred and eighty five illustrations in the first
edition and we paired it down, but there's probably a
hundred and sixty in there, and well there's some good
I'll turn the page and I'm like, what does that mean?

And then I'll start reading because obviously you gravitate towards
the image first, and then I start reading and then
I'm like, huh, I get it now. So it's fun
and just to kind of describe how the book works.
You encourage people to read it and also buy or
a journal if you are notebook whatever you want to
use to coincide with the book. And it's not necessarily

to take notes, but after each chapter or each day
for your thirty days, you give an activity and it's
not like I mean maybe you can illustrate, but it
really does make your brain work and think about yourself
and put it down on paper in ways you've never
done before or I've never done before. And I've read

different types of quote unquote self help books, but this
one literally makes you do and not the difference that
I think your book does. Most of the exercises are
intended to be fun, some of them are thought provoking,
and sometimes i's a little painful. Um like day two

is a really reugh one. I mean, as you know,
it's just it's it's that's the one where you look
at the hardest thing that you've ever done and you
see how you've made it past that, and then you
know that after that, you can make it through anything
less hard than that. And when I got to that day,
I put the book down and I was like, okay.

I literally took a day to figure out what it was.
And part of me was like, Okay, my life is
kind of crazy with my schedule right now. I'm in it.
I'm in it now, I think, and I couldn't. I
was like, I don't want to write about it because
I haven't quote unquote survived it yet. So I was
like I'm not giving it to myself yet. I'm going
to get through it and then I'm going to make
it my thing. So I couldn't find anything to even compare.

And then I went back to earlier this year when
I broke my hand, and I was like, mine is
very physical. Uh, And it messed me up mentally because
of what happened and how I got through, and I
was like, damn, you're a badass. After I wrote it out. Really,
it really does. It does work. Um, but there are
and like you you you're bringing up in the book

that this is the book the self help, self help
book for skeptics. So if you're like, oh, this is crap,
this is she's talking about unicorns, this is all whatever,
read the freaking book and be quiet and then I'll
prove yourself wrong. Yeah. Kirkis calls it the self help
book for people who are understandably skeptical of the genre.
And I loved it when they said that, because it's like,

you know how many books like say this book is
going to change your life and this book is the
only book that you'll ever need, and blah blah blah,
and then you read it and you're like Okay, well
that was helpful, but I still have my real life,
you know, and and uh and and I think for
the book for mine, at least, it's intended to be

an aid, not be the end all, be all, And
it's also intended to reflect real life and reality and
not be yeah exactly, not be kind of just theoretical.
And I wanted it to be practice goal. So when
I say it's for skeptics, it's like, look, this is
practical stuff. This is hands on stuff. This is stuff

that you do, not stuff that you feel or think.
And a lot of it does stir up emotions, but
it's just a doing exercise. Like really, that's all doing it.
And I feel, like I said this earlier, it's like
almost a guy in this podcast is going to turn
into it to a guide book or a guide episode
for someone who is either about to branch into side hustling,

is not happy at their job, or is in the
middle of it, in the weeds of it, and they're like,
how do I how do I formulate a a normal
life and still do the things I love? And that's
what I'm getting out of your book. I'm in the
middle of it. You know that it's something I'm pretending
that I read the whole thing. I'm in the middle
of it, and one of the things I loved and

I read it, I was like, yeah, that's awesome. Never
quit quitting? Is that? I get it right? Is that
what you say? Never quite that? And you you kind
of give the example of smoking, which how many of
us know smokers who have quit and then they go
back and then they quit again, and you talk about
how every time you quit and start again, it's okay

because you're closer to actually quitting. And I'm doing a
terrible job at explaining it, but I want you to well,
So there's been a lot of studies. This is like
a scientific thing. So as practical and as straightforward and
as fun as the book is, this is all based
on research. And I don't do a great job of
talking about the research search that has been done on
this because I'm just writing a book that's fun. Um.

But there's been a lot of research about people who
are trying to quit smoking, and that informed my journey
of quitting smoking and quitting smoking. Many people have said
that it's harder than quitting heroin because you can get
cigarettes anywhere anybody on the street will give you a
cigarette if they're smoking. Um, And so it's very hard

to resist the sirens song of that one, you know.
Vice drinking, I think is a lot of the same ways,
but um, but it's like such a not a big deal,
like one cigarette is not a big deal, but it
is a big deal. And so one of the things
that when I was quitting, and finally when I quit

for good, I kept thinking that, well, at least I'm
making progress, and I'm making progress, and as long as
I don't get discouraged, because I think a lot of
times people get discouraged and they just they put they
assign a value to starting again or stopping again, like
they failed at quitting or they you know whatever, But

never stop trying to do that thing that you know
you have to do. And that's really the bottom line
with the never quick quitting is yeah, like you might
not have done it this time, but if you don't
assign a value to it, like failure or whatever, it's
just another day, another thing, another you know, and then

you just wake up the next day and try again,
you know. And it goes the same way with never
stop trying something instead of quitting, like never if you
have a side hustle or something that you love, whatever
it is, keep trying. In that sense, it's the same idea.
We always look at it like that, like, oh, you
know my side hustle, it didn't it didn't pan out,
but I'm gonna try again. I'm gonna try again. But

when you look at it with something that's maybe not
good for you, keep quitting, I guess in the sense
when you quick quit it, never quick quit, ever quick
when with you know, one of the things you just
said about the side hustle and never giving up and stuff.
Something that I've said a lot about our business is
that sometimes the person who wins the rodeo is just

the person stubborn enough to say in saddle like you
gotta just stay in the saddle and hold on like
how and you just stay keep doing it. And that's
the stubbornness. You outlast people, and you outlast the cravings
of the of the cigarettes, you out last the cravings

of the alcohol. You just outlast you know, you just
stubbornly hold on. I'm right, I'm writing this down as
you're saying, I'm like, hold on like stubborn. Okay, love
that love that one um, you said something to me
when you had emailed me about bullets about you, and
I love that you talked about this about having a

plan versus not having a plan with your side hustles,
and that that first thing says me, I want you
to explain that, because what you said, I was like,
Oh my god, so many people will relate to this
or understand where you're coming from with your whole concept
about side hustles and why. Yeah. So one of the
things that I've noticed about a lot of people's side hustles,

and especially mine prior to Las Soaps, was that you
start them or I start them, and you just think
or I just thought like, well, this is a hobby,
this is the thing I'm doing. Maybe I'll make some money,
maybe it'll make a little extra scratch on the side. Great,
And it didn't really have a plan. The first one

that I really put together a business plan and really
did like the cost benefit analysis and the break even
points and all of this stuff, and do the marketing
segments and identified our target market. All of that was
out Laws Soaps, and I started like doing it without
Laws Soaps, really setting it up as a business, not
as a hobby, and I think that that is the

reason that we're still doing it today five years later.
So in terms of people who are doing side hustles,
if you really want to do it, make a plan,
make a business plan, figure out how many especially if
you're like a manufacturer like us, we had to sell
a lot of bars of soap before we could even

afford our rent, you know. I mean, if you think
about how many bars of soap you have to sell
in order to pay you know, rent prices, that's that's
quite a lot. That's like palettes of soap. And I
didn't really think about that when I was first starting,
but the business plan really helped. And I think that

doing a plan cannot The importance of that cannot be understated.
It's true, it definitely is. In in last week's episode,
Joanna talked about the same thing, that she had a
full blown business plan, and she even brings up how
she's heard people on my podcast say they just did it,
they just started and they got into it, and it's

not necessarily going to fail because they did that. But
she knows that's not how she functions on functions or
how she would have succeeded. So I guess it's just
it doesn't hurt to have a plan at all, and
why not try it first? Well, I think it's a
lot easier also to get through the inevitable dark knights

of the soul. Like there's those moments when you're laying
it awake in bed and thinking what have I done?
I should have just stayed at my regular full time job,
and or you know, if I should just go to
work and get a full time desk job or whatever.
Like there's those moments when you're like in the dark
and literally and figuratively usually because it's usually at like

three o'clock in the morning, and you think what have
I done with my life? And if you turn over
and you have a plan and you think, what have
I done with my life? I've created a business that's
going to make three hundred dollars and two more years,
it's it's easier to wake up in the morning and
go do that again. You know, it's easier to get

up if you have a plan. But if you're just
laying there and the answer is what have I done
with my life? I don't know then, and it's really
hard to want to get up in the morning. You know,
you're right. You are right. There is one part of
the book where I it really hit me where I

was like, you know what, I'm finally going to do it,
and I want you to talk about how you stepped
away from the real world to finish writing your book,
that whole part where you didn't have Internet and Facebook,
and then I'll explain what I did and how simple
stuff can be and how it can make you so
much more productive and change your your life. Really, yeah,

I'm an addict to Facebook and online and I knew
that as long as I had any kind of ability
to feed my addiction to social media, that I was
going to continue to hit that, like I was going
to continue to hit that that that feeding pellet, you

know whatever, or like I was going to continue to
look for validation from my friends and stuff like that.
And really, at the end of the like when I
was trying to finish the book and it was just
so close to the end and I was dying to
finish it, and I thought, the only way I can
do this is if I just don't see another person

and go off into a cabin with no internet, Like
I mean, I really, I mean, I put myself in
prison basically, And I went to Joshua Tree, which is
in southern California, and I went to the middle of
the desert off a dirt road where the internet was
just awful and uh, and it was a hundred degrees

outside and there was no air conditioning except for in
the bedroom, and so because it was I didn't want
to leave the house because it was a brazilion degrees
and even the living room was too hot to really
be in. So I was stuck in the bedroom in
this place with no cell service, no internet connectivity, and

I got like a rotisserie chicken and threw it in
the in the you know, refrigerator, and I made coffee
and a rotisserie chicken for like a week. Wow, I
don't realize it was that long. Oh man, it was.
It was well, I wanted to finish, you know, like
I just needed to finish. And yeah, so I was

just like a monk basically, like I love you that
you say when you're in you're in the book when
you're writing it, that there were so many times when
you still went to Facebook dot com in your browser,
so many times knowing there was no WiFi, and it
would say, sorry, you have poor connections and no network whatever.
We all we all have seen it, and you know

you didn't have internet, but that's what really shows you.
Oh wow, I am a. Yeah, it's scary. It's just
like such a habit and just such a you know.
And I've tried to I've tried to unplug my home
internet at points, and for some reason, I just go
and plug it in again, Like I can't stop myself.

There's no willpower to overcome this stuff. And so you
just accept that except that you can't do it. Like
that's the thing. For me. It was just accepting that
I couldn't do I couldn't do it without you know, Facebook,
and so I just cold turkey. Well what just today

I was talking to um, the girl who does my nails,
and I was reading your book at the nail salon
and I was telling her about it, and she's like,
I haven't read a book in forever. I used to
always read, And I said, because we're literally on Instagram
all the time. When I didn't have WiFi. This summer,
I was at a bunch of national parks. I read
a book in three days, an entire book. Bought it

on the trip and finished it and my friends were like,
oh my god. And I was like, I haven't touched
my phone. I haven't had service. Like think about how
dumb we're getting. Basically, So when I was reading your
section about this, I was like, mine, it's Instagram. It's bad.
Like I see on my phone fourteen hours a week,
I'm on Instagram. It shows me and yeah, if you
have an iPhone, and especially I know the new I

I know, I get that it's awful. So I tried,
Yeah it is. I tried using an app to do it,
called the Moment App, and while it does give you
alerts and stuff, I would get the alert that I've
been on my phone too long, and I was like,
shut up, stupid app. I don't need that. I know
I've been on my phone too long. So after I
read your section of the book, I said, I can't

delete Instagram. I need like I need it for work.
I have to have it my brand and whatnot. I
took it off of my home home screen and put
it on the next screen. I can't tell you how
many times I have hit the Oral b Toothbrush app,
which is now in the place of Instagram the last
three days, and I'll hit it, and I'm like, and

it's funny because it opens my toothbrush app and I'm like,
oh my god, look how many times I would have
done this? And then if it was Instagram, I would
have continued to scroll and go down the black hole.
It's been incredible, and I noticed it's a lot because
I'll see on my messages that I've got all these
messages and I'm like, that's weird. Why am I getting more?
Are not getting more? I'm just seeing them in chunks
versus responding right away. Yeah, and thank you for that

chapter of the book. Is I really think it's going
to make me more productive. So if you're listening and
you're like, well, what is mine or what can I fix?
You've got two. You've got two extremely different examples of
a going to a cabin in the middle of nowhere
or just breaking a small habit. Knowing your habits, you
know what they are, and like Danielle said, accept them

and move on. And well, I think one of the
things that I started thinking about and maybe this will
be helpful, so I'll bring it up. What am I
looking for? What am I trying to find? And what
I realized in those moments when I was checking Facebook,
I was trying to find validation when I was doing

something really scary, and I was looking for people who
will accept me even if I don't finish this thing.
And the fact is, it doesn't matter if they accept
me or not if I don't finish this thing. There's
plenty of people who accept me if I don't finish
this thing. But I wouldn't be here talking to you

if I didn't finish it. And that you know, you're
getting something out of it, and people get something. I mean,
I think it's a valuable contribution and something that was
worthwhile to put off my my instant validation in this,
you know, in the service of so yeah, and I

finally did it because of you, so hopefully and if
you're listening to this podcast and like, you know what,
I'm gonna change whatever it is, reach out to me.
It's the Carla Maria at gmail dot com because I'm
curious to know what it was and what you did.
And then I'm gonna relay that to Danielle and let
her know, or you can. Can people reach out to
you where your social let's do it in the middle
of this so that yeah, I'm Danielle. Oh god, well

this is helpful. Um, I'm Danielle a Vincent dot com.
Well first and foremost. Okay, So your website is Danielle
Danielle a Vincent dot com and your Instagram is Danielle
a Vincent. If anyone wants to reach out to you, yes,
And I'm how do you Danielle at Twitter mentioning that.

But people can reach out to me, they find you message.
I'm pretty easily accessible. One of the other chapters of
your book, and I'm not even going to try to
do the justice of explaining it or why you did it.
But it's the alcohol part. And if you're listening and
I're like, oh, what is she going to tell me
that I shouldn't drink alcohol? Yeah, I know it's bad
for me, blah blah blah, but it's not like you

don't you You kind of change the way you drink,
and no one is sitting here saying stop drinking whatever,
because I know people get so crazy about that. So
I want you to explain maybe what encouraged you to
write that part of the book and how it changed you. Yeah,
so that but that section has actually been a great

ripple effect as my friends realize kind of how much
we all drink together and and we have. I mean,
I'm in just a drinky culture and my friends are
drinky people, and you know that's that's something. But when
I realized I was having like a bottle of wine

and night, uh, and I was feeling pretty terrible the
next day and not getting as much done. And I'm
a rock star, like, you know, I can power through
things like but do you need to really expand the
energy of powering through stuff or just go through it?
Like I mean, there's it was so much uphill battle

of powering through my hangover so many days. And then
I thought, well, I mean I was listening to a book.
I was listening to Brian Tracy book. Um, I think
it's called Eat That Frog and Right. And one of
the things that he says is what is one thing
that you could do or stop doing that would measurably

help you reach your goals today? And I was like,
I didn't even stop to think about it. I was like,
if I quit drinking. And when I said that out loud,
I was like, oh, now I have to do it,
because now I know it's awful. And I didn't want to,
and so I did the Thirty Day Sobriety Solution, which

I rarely recommend. That book, Um, it's by Jack Canfield
and Dave Andrews I think is his name, and it's
it's another thirty day book. It's actually where I got
the idea the days from. And it really helped me
realize that I was drinking not because I was trying
to hide anything um or cover up anything or feeling insufficient.

It was be really because I was bored and I
didn't know how to shut off after a day of work.
I mean, some people eat snacks. You know, you could
go either you're not gonna get it. I mean you
might get a hangover. Yeah, but every it's just different.
It's just bored boredom a lot of times is what
it is. And realizing that if I just changed my

attitude about it, that I can actually have a healthy,
regular relationship with alcohol after that, like I I know,
drink like a regular person, Like I maybe have a
glass of wine every couple of weeks, you know, maybe
sometimes yesterday I had a glass of wine and a half.
I know, crazy. So so yeah, I just changed my

relationship with alcohol to a more appropriate one. I think
the same thing, and obviously that comes with age two.
If you're twenty two, you're like, oh, hell no, I'm
going to go out and rage with all my friends.
I know that's what you do with twenty two, and
I know it's hard. No one saying you can't, but
that's just the culture in the life that you live
in at twenty two. The same way you said you
have drinking friends. When I was I would always get

sick from drinking. I now know that I have certain
allergies that equate to certain things that that are in
beer and whatnot, and that explains why I would literally
be out of commission for a day and a half.
I didn't care, did it anyway. Then on my twenty
nine birthday, I was so sick from the night before
that it ruined my entire birthday. I was in bed
the whole day on my birthday, and I said, that's it.

I am not getting sick until at least my thirtieth birthday.
So I spent twenty nine and thirty really evaluating when
it was necessary to drink, when um, hey, I don't
need to take shots, and when your friends had to
four shots on you, I say waste your money. I'm
going to dump it on the floor, like I don't
think that shot. I'm gonna get wasted, probably do something

dumb and feel like crap tomorrow. And it's extra calories.
There's so many reasons not to do it. And after
a while it just became easy. I would drink more
water while drinking. And I made it past my thirtieth
birthday a year and I think three months before I
barfed again, and I was, you know what, I did it?
And I understand my body now, and I understand how

much better I can function the next day. You know,
you're not gonna wake up early and work out the
night after drinking. It's just gonna ruin things and you're
going to be bloated. And there's all things that you
don't realize happen until you take that step back. And
I think it's made me more productive. So I didn't
realize that was really what I was doing until I
read that part of the book. I was like, huh,
I did that. Now I can say I did that

really well. And that's the thing I mean, is it
enhancing your life or is it making it worse? And
that's where people can only say that for themselves, and
that answer changes over time. So if you know, like
you in it, in ten years you might want to, uh,
you might love getting sick when you drink. Who knows.

And I still drink. It's not that I don't. I
just I save it for occasions or or big moments
or when I know I've got nothing the next day.
There's just and maybe you do. You Binge watched TV
and drink wine every night, and you're like, hell, no,
I'm not stopping. No one's making you. It's fine ever,
But it's just it's cool that you kind of, I guess,

show people it's okay to do this or it's okay
to try that. And that's a lot of what the
book is because you you don't force people, you don't
tell them what they're doing is wrong ever, right, Well,
and that's it's. I grew up in a culture of
you know, alcoholics anonymous and being aware of alcoholism, and
I thought I had this idea that if you admitted

you had a problematic relationship with alcohol, that then you
couldn't drink anymore ever again. And that just seemed awful,
Like that just seemed like a real great reason not
to admit that I had a problematic relationship with it,
frankly because I didn't want to not drink anymore. And
when I realized that there were different relationships with alcohol,

and you know, it just that realization that I didn't
have to have a problem in order for me to
not drink all the time, which actually I heard a
quote that was like so brilliant. It was alcohol is
the only drug that you have to make or that
you're seen as a problem. If you quit, you have

a problem. Yeah, alcohol is the only drug that you're
seen as having a problem if you quit doing it,
Like heroin, nobody would ever say, oh, you don't do
heroin anymore, you must have a heroin problem. Like it
is so true. And it goes back to oh, why
don't you want to take a shot? What's wrong? And
I'm like, you take it like you bar It's really interesting.

I was talking to my friends so on on my website,
on the Unicorn website, I actually have a section called
just soda Please, where people can have ideas of, you know,
things to say if they don't want to drink, because
you know, there's the social pressure. And when I put
this to my friends, like Hey, what do you say?
What's a good thing to say when you're not drinking? Uh,

several of them were astonished and like, you mean you
hang out with people who pressure you to drink and
that you know, friends don't do that, And I'm like,
are you kidding me? Where have you been? Like, friends
totally do that, and it's fine for them to do
that because they just want you to have a good time,

like they're doing it in the service and have webody
having a great time? They're not trying to ruin your life, right,
you know? No not? Yeah, it's funny when you think
about that. So, yeah, I'm curious to know how people
just what they think of this part of the book,
whether they're reading the book or listening to us talk
about it. So reach out to both of us and
what you say to your friends when you're go to

Danielle's website Danielle Avinson dot com. Is it and then
it's slashed just soda? Yeah, just soda please? Um. But
I think, mean, I really think I would love to
hear what people have to say in their their experienceperiences
because it was ran the gamut and I actually had
to take a firm line with people smashing friends like

my friends for like saying that these aren't real friends
and stuff because they encourage you to drink and take shots,
and like, no, that's that's true. Like everybody's just trying
to have a good time and nobody do it too,
and don't even realize that they're doing it. Yeah, they
don't realize, and so I don't know. And then some

people were super offended by it, I mean just really,
and I couldn't. I couldn't believe how with a vast
difference of experience, you know, my friends all had like
can you I mean, you know what I mean, people
living in totally different realities, Like alcohol makes people crazy,

whether you're talking about it or actually drinking it, it
has its enthusiastic Yeah, I mean really enthusiastic. And that's
what I think, you know, I mean, that's great. It's
great to be enthusiastic. No, it is. No. No. I
I really loved that part of the book, and I
was like, huh, that's right. She's right again. Literally that's

what I say in every chapter. I'm like, yes, Danielle,
you're right. I'm going to be a unicorn. I'm almost there,
and you're already a unicorn. You are completely badass and awesome. Well,
thank you very much. Um, So when you come back
to Seattle, we can go get a drink if you want.
That would be great, Let's or coffee whatever. Um, when

you went through all of your different your side hustles,
when whether it was leaving your job with Oprah, um,
was it with own or was it like your actual job?
Technically I was employed by own the Oprah Win Free Network,
but I did a lot of work on oprah dot
com for the Oh magazine crew, so it's all kind

of like a big thing. And yeah, and this was back,
Um I joined the company when Oprah was still on
the air, so like on prime time. So yeah, she
was finishing up her thing. So whether it was leaving
own then or starting outlaws hopes or starting the book,

did you have people in your life that were like, wait,
you're going to do that? Or are you sure that's
a good idea. I'm very blessed with super supportive friends.
But me and and also man, when I'll never forget
it because it burned like it actually burned in my

heart when somebody said you're going to start a business,
are you more of a desk type. And this was
one of my artist friends, and I realized that she
probably held me in some sort of contempt. Like that
was the moment of realization for me, when I realized

that she and I weren't really friends, and but we
were having like brunch together. We were brunch friends, and
she was like, aren't you more of a desk type?
And I was like, are you? Yeah, I just and
I felt so like, I mean, I wanted to just
stand up and leave, but yeah. And then somebody else

who has who's actually a successful independent artist who has
her own business, said, well, a lot of people want
to start craft businesses, but nobody really realizes that it's
a hard thing. And I was thinking, I have a
business plan, like I have done homework here. Why would
you think that I was just doing this as like

a lark, you know. And it was very insulting to me.
But then I realized she's really coming at it from
a position of she's worked really hard and she believes
that part of the credit for that is feeling like
nobody else could do it, and you know, and that

was where she was coming from, like she felt like
she paid the dues and she wanted to say, no,
this is an exclusive club, and you know, but the
fact is that anybody who has the cohenist to start
a side business is in the club, you know, and
totally and actually my my own mom, who is super

supper supportive. Now, um, she said handmade soap. Don't you
think that's kind of a long shot? And it's like, no,
I didn't know what she was talking about. And then yeah,
and then my dad was very um, he was he
was kind of superficially supportive. But I could tell that.

I mean, in the fact, is starting a handmade soap
company and saying we're taking over the world with a
handmade soap company. Let's be realistic. It's totally a long shot,
but that doesn't mean that it's not worthy. Of course,
doesn't mean that it's not gonna work. It totally is
legitimate long shot, yes, but I love that that doesn't

mean it's not worthy. That is so important to remember
when you're doing anything, starting a new job or whatever,
a workout program, whatever it may be. Just because it's
a long shot doesn't mean it's not worthy of trying.
Doesn't mean you aren't going to succeed at some point
in it well, and at the end of the day,
my friend who said it's really hard and a lot
of people don't realize how hard it is, She's damn right.

It is hard. Like it's hard every single day. There's
no day that isn't hard. And she's right, a lot
of people don't. I don't have the stomach for it.
And my other friend who said, aren't you more of
a desk type, she was right, And guess what. Most
of the things that I do now are writing and
emailing and getting you know, press, and writing product descriptions

and working on designs. I'm totally a desk type. That's
what I do for most of my job. And we
hired people to do the things that aren't desk job
parts because my strength is yes, desk job and I
hate that. But that doesn't mean that right, And that
doesn't mean you can put in a box of just

only allowed to do that either you You are able
to do that because you literally did the handmade something
on your own, and if you didn't do it yourself, physically,
get your hands dirty and do that, you wouldn't be
good at the desk side of it. Absolutely, And at
the end of the day, all the people who said
everything bad about us, they did have a total point.

Just it should stop me. And that's that's how I
feel about with other people. You know, when people say
I want to do this thing, and sometimes my internal
like oh wait, I to protect you, says I should
warn them about something scary, and I think, no, they're
going to take that as me saying no to them.

And then I always try and say something encouraging instead
of saying that no thing that I was going to say,
because the world is going to say and no enough times,
You're right, it doesn't need my addition. So yeah, I
mean and then like I said, I mean, yeah, there's

a lot of naysayers out there, and there's a lot
of people who uh don't take risk themselves, and so
we'll advise you not to ever take a risk and
that life isn't for you. As I always say never,
and this is this applies to me as well. Never
accept the advice of someone whose life you wouldn't want
to lead. Oh, because you're going to be their shoes.

I'm going to drop the mic and just end on that. Okay,
it's a good one, right, I love it. I'm just
like we say it again. I'm gonna go listen back
to my own podcast over. Okay, okay, never accept the
advice of someone whose life you wouldn't want to lead. Amazing.
I like, I really want to end on that relationship
advice and everything. It's like business advice. If somebody is

losing money from their business, don't take to financial advice
from them. Like if somebody's like, you know, single all
the time, don't take relationship advice from them. It means
like there's so much and you know, but advice is
really I mean, you know, I take advice from a
lot of people. People. People told me in the beginning,

don't listen to people, don't take advice from people. I'm like,
everybody has something to teach me. It's just do I
want to do what they've done, because they're going to
advise you to do what they've done and make, you know,
make the choices that lead to where they are. That's
incredible and I really do want to end on that.
But I do have to ask you the question that
I've asked every one, and it's APP, which seems so

insignificant at this point after hearing that amazing quote, But
what APP has helped you or several apps helped you
through all of your side hustles, whether it's business related
or mindfulness related or anything you can share with anyone.
I swear to God, this is not a Mozilla Firefox
product plug but so and it's not a phone app.

It's a uh, you know, an app on my computer
and application. It's Firefox. And there's a container plug in.
And the container plug in means that you can have
every one of your businesses emails open at the same time.
You don't have to log out and log in again.

You can't have your Facebook in a separate container, so
you're not like your activity isn't logged onto like when
you're browsing other things. It's not like going to show
you ads for that later and like when The exact
example is that I use Gmail UH and Google Calendar

to manage our production schedules and also to manage my
meetings with Mozilla, which are really important, and then I
also used Gmail, and then I also used two versions
of Outlook, one for my business work and one for
one from my book and one from my outlaw soaps.
And I have all of these open at the same time,

and I don't need to worry about logging in or
lugging out or anything like that is so it's it's
it allows me to keep everything totally separate and organized,
and that is hugely great, like because I with a
d D switching is so hard. I'm sure. Well, thank
you for that. Now, people check that one out and

help it keeps them organized. When you launch the next book,
please let me know because everyone I got, I want
to show you this. I want to send you this thing,
this this planner prototype thing. I think I'm gonna do
a little video workshop on it because it needs explanation,
which is terrible, but yeah, I'll see that. And if

people want to check out the soaps, it's Outlaws soaps
dot com. If they want to go to your website directly,
it's Danielle A Vincent dot com. On Instagram, she is
Danielle A. Vincent. And the book that I'm obsessed with
and I can't wait to finish is Unicorn Thirty Days
to Find your Inner Unicorn and live the life you love.
Available at bookstores on Amazon. You can get on your

kindle and remember the unicorn y O you so we
don't forget. Do I miss anything? No? I think you've
got everything. It's so great to be here. I love
talking to you. I'm really glad. Like I said in
the email earlier to one of the greatest things about
writing this book has been connecting with people about it

at the right time in their lives. And it's just
so great to be able to talk to you about
this stuff. You know, I'm sure there are plenty of
people out there that are extremely grateful you wrote it,
and I know you're grateful about getting to meet the people,
but you've changed a lot of lives. So thank you.
Thank you for making the time to come on this podcast.
I know you've got a million side hustles you're working

on and all the things, so thank you. It means
a lot to me and the people who listened to it.
We appreciate it. Thank you.
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