November 29, 2022 • 38 mins
Skyline Drive has been selected as an Apple Podcasts Series Essential!
Mangesh begins his journey into the weird, wonderful world of astrology with a little help from: his mom, a science writer, a famous musician, and one very sneaky author! But when an ominous prediction suddenly comes true, his life turns upside down.
We made you a mixtape! Listen to Sounds from Skyline Drive Vol 1 and Vol 2.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Warning. The following episode contains adult language discussion of miracles,
arranged marriages, chanting tatum, and disclosure of at least one
Bible approof stoning. Sensitive listeners. Take care.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So here's a confession I'm going to make right at
the top of the show. I don't believe in astrology,
but astrology keeps happening to me.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Now.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Everyone says podcasting is the most visual medium, So I
made you a slide show to try to explain. This
is the real skyline drive. It's in Delaware, and growing
up when I couldn't sleep, it's one of the many
places I would drive to look at the stars. This
is the moon. It rules our emotions. This is mercury
(01:07):
in retrograde. You know it because it makes life miserable.
This is Rahu and k Thu. They're important and mischievous
nodes in Vedaic astrology. They're prominent in Donald Trump's horoscope,
and they're also responsible for Paris Hiltan. This is me.
I was born May first, nineteen seventy nine. This is
the sky at the time I was born. In Western astrology,
(01:29):
it makes me a Taurus. These are some other tauruses,
polepot I, Toolo, Komeni, Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler, Barbara Streisan.
The fact that we're all tauruses has made me doubt
astrology for a very long time. These are my parents.
They've been hitched fifty one years and every morning my
dad makes my mom a cup of tea and then
(01:51):
they sit and do the spelling, be and pencil. It's adorable, right,
These are my parents calling in the middle of this recording, Si, Magisha,
I thank you. It's going calling back. Give me a club.
This is India when I was growing up, where it's
like yoga and meditation and turmeric and astrology. These are
words that were part of my Indian life, but they
(02:12):
weren't a part of my going to school fitting into
America one. But now now everyone has an opinion about it.
I'm a Gemini, which I've heard is bad.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
I'm a Libra, so I'm indecisive.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
That's definitely true.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I'm a tourust.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I find it starts to be beautiful.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
It sucks that we can't see your starts in New
York because all the lights.
Speaker 6 (02:31):
I know a few people who are kind of into it,
and they like ask, yo, do you see the horoscope today?
And I'm like, nah, bro, not really, I'm not worried
about what the horoscope says.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
I know a lot of people don't believe in it,
but why can't people just believe in things for fun,
Like it doesn't have to be backed up by anything.
Speaker 7 (02:45):
But if you believe in fantasy football, why can't you
believe in astrology.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
A few months ago, my friends and I set out
to make this show about astrology. We wanted to run
around the city and have some wild adventures and understand
why after so many millennia, people still look to the
sky for answers. This is an astrologer I met in
Queen's He promised me you're going to dig this show.
Speaker 8 (03:06):
I think if you do your own show, he'll become
a super hit, no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
This is a graph of how much I believed in
astrology before our session. Not that much. This is a
graph of how much I started believing thirty minutes later
when something horrible he said came true.
Speaker 8 (03:25):
That's why I asked again. From the time it started
a couple of years back till now, the situation doesn't
look good.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
This is me traveling halfway around the world to answer
the biggest question my entire life. This is a shop
in India where your fortune is waiting for you. It
was written centuries ago and put on a shelf, and
the shopkeepers know which one to pull because it's coated
by your thumbprint and the time you're going to walk
through that door. This, this is me walking through that door.
(03:57):
I'm Mungi's articular from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This is Skyline Drive,
(04:38):
chapter one. Leave your axe at home.
Speaker 6 (04:46):
So I figured, you know, I do need to soone
an astrologer, and there are a bunch of astrologers on
the Upper West Side who have set off with these.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Wait till you're looking for an astrologer to zone.
Speaker 6 (04:57):
Oh yeah, well I need to check it off the list.
I've got one.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Hundred, you know already, this reporting and starting off weirder
than I thought. It's ten o'clock on a bright summer
day and I'm standing here with Ajjacobs.
Speaker 6 (05:11):
I am an author and a journalist and a pisces.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
In addition to being a pisces or technically on the
cusp of Pisces and ares. AJ's a friend and he's
one of my favorite writers. I've come to meet him
in this neighborhood, because in two thousand and seven he
wrote a New York Times bestseller called The Year of
Living Biblically. The book was a phenomenon. It came out
in multiple languages, there were magazine and TV pieces about it.
(05:35):
It was such a big deal that at one point
Marlon Wayns was lined up to play AJ in the
Network TV version.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
The premise was that I would follow all the rules
of the Bible as literally as possible, So that meant
the famous ones like the Ten Commandments and love your neighbor,
but also the lesser known ones like you cannot wear
clothes made of two different kinds of fabrics, so I
had to get rid of all of my polycotton blends.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Giving up polycotton blends is just one of the hardships
Aga endured in the name of journalism. He also grew
a massive beard, shoved wild birds so he could steal
its egg and say a prayer on it. And he
followed seven hundred other Biblical rules literally in an attempt
to understand religion. And somewhere along the way he decided
that to fully appreciate the Bible.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
You actually had to stone people who committed these abominations,
and the abominations include adultera, breaking the Sabbath, but also astrology, witchcraft, divination,
they're all sort of lumped together.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Just the fact that he decided to stone someone was
a shock to me. I mean, Aj is one of
the nicest people I know, but that's how committed he was.
Speaker 6 (06:48):
I didn't want to go to jail for assault. I
just wanted to check it off my list, you know,
stone and astrologer check. So I walked by this astrologer
on the street and just very subtly dropped the pebble
so that it landed on her.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Shoe, kind of a drive by stoning.
Speaker 6 (07:08):
And I was thinking, she's probably not even gonna notice
because I just kept walking. Oh she noticed, and she's like,
what's going on? Why did you do that? And so
I had to tell the truth. Because I was following
the Bible. I thought maybe she'll think it's funny. She
did not think it's funny.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
She was pissed.
Speaker 6 (07:27):
She started yelling at me, like, f you go to
f and hell I was rattled. Even if you're trying
to stone someone in modern day using pebbles, people don't
like it. Well, that's a lesson.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
That's a takeaway rule number one, don't stone an astrologer.
It wasn't the advice I'd come for, but I wrote
it down anyway. But the thing I really wanted to know.
The reason I traveled all the way out here to
meet with AJ was to ask him how to make
the show, because doing the show in astrology it actually
(08:00):
makes me nervous, like, is there a way to talk
about how accurate a fortune telling parrot could possibly be?
Or is there a way to joke about whether an
astro curse can make you bald? Because even if the
show makes me look silly, like I don't want to
get disinvited from a family wedding because I said something
(08:21):
that hurt friends or family or really anyone who puts
stock in these subjects. As I'm trying to uncover threads
and things like how do you tell a story delicately
where you're not offending people but still engaging with all
the subject.
Speaker 6 (08:35):
I have that exact dilemma when I was writing The
Year of Living Biblically, because I was coming in as
an agnostic writing about religion. My big overall advice is
go in with deep curiosity. Don't go in with an
agenda that you're trying to disprove or prove astrology. You're
(08:57):
just an explorer, So go in like with no acts.
Leave your axes at home.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
That I think I can do. After the break, we
talked to an astrologer who doesn't believe in astrology. Take
a subway ride to Queen's and hear this from my mom.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
I felt like a josic though.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Chapter two, just for funds.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Is the phone listening?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Is that?
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Are you listening through the phone?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Pattern?
Speaker 8 (09:45):
AI?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
The algorithm?
Speaker 8 (09:46):
That is the pattern?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Back in twenty twenty, one of my friends shot me
a text linking to this video of Channing Tatum. The
actor had uploaded it himself after using an astrology app
called the Pattern, But when Channing's readings became a little
two spot on, he freaked out.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Are you listening through my phone?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And then just regurgitating the stuff that I'm afraid of?
Speaker 5 (10:05):
And the stuff? You know what?
Speaker 8 (10:07):
Pattern? People?
Speaker 4 (10:08):
You should just call me.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
I need answers right now, poor Channing. I don't know
if he ever got his answers, but what I do
know is that astrology is ubiquitous and lucrative. One venture
capital investor told The New York Times that the app
co star this pattern competitor had the potential to be
a twenty four billion dollar business, claiming it could one
(10:31):
day be as big as Spotify. But if astrology is
as big an opportunity as everyone's saying, I'm wondering if
my company should get in on the act. After all,
it feels so obvious that I don't know even a
nine year old could see the potential. So I decided
to try the pitch out on my nine year old Ruby.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Hey only, why let me get this closet.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I brought you to this closet because I wanted to
pitch you on an astrology app. Are you ready for it?
Why is that? What do you think about astrology? It's dumb?
Oh gosh, Well, maybe you're not the right person for it.
But the reason I came to you is because you
actually have a bank. You spend only my money. You
(11:14):
seem to hoard all your money, and you keep all
of Henry's money as well, which you charge him a
small fee for. So I thought you might be the
savviest person in this family. Is it okay if I
pitch you an astrology app?
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So? Here's my case for it. These aren't your grandmother's
horse ghosts, right, They're talking to you in this very
fresh and fun way. They're up to the minute with
the NASA data. They look beautiful, and they have a
chat feature where astrologers will chat with you live about
your birth charts. Right. And then by twenty nineteen, right,
(11:47):
like you could see, astrology are starting to take over Bumble,
the dating app. They start allowing you to sort your
matches by their birth signs, so like you could say,
like I only want to date Tauruses, or I only
want to date Geminis or whatever. In fact, astrology in
twenty nineteen was a two point two billion dollar market.
What do you think about that? Mind, I can't help
(12:12):
whether you're serious or not. But apps made forty million
dollars that year, and in fact, the next year, when
COVID really hit, people started searching for birth charts and astrology.
Both of those searches hit five year peaks on Google.
So it's no wonder that all these venture capital funds
(12:33):
had started investing in astrology apps early and then continued
to invest. And I'm here to ask you to invest
in my astrology app.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
What do you think, oh, I know, I'm spending oh
my money on a skateboard now on you?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Okay, Well, so Ruby, what type of business would you
invest in? Bubble gum? Okay? Chapter three, Truth and Poetry.
(13:12):
When you go out with a recorder in hand, it's
interesting to see who will talk on tape. We found
scientists at NASA who actually wouldn't talk about their interest
in astrology to us because they were afraid of losing
their jobs. We found PhDs and postdocs who were worried
that if they talk at all to our podcasts, even
to say that astrology was nonsense, they would face professional repercussions.
(13:34):
I mean, it is insanity what a lightning rod astrology
can be. But luckily we found Jamie Green.
Speaker 9 (13:42):
My grandfather showed me a little half of a peanut
that had the germ in it, and he said, that's
going to become a plant. And it was just things
like that that got me interested in the world, which
is the same as being interested in science.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Jamie is a celebrated science writer, and.
Speaker 9 (13:58):
I'm Sagittarius, although you would not know it from looking
at anything about my life. I've got some planet in
Capricorn that explains why I'm not an impulsive adventurer.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
She has a new book coming out called The Possibility
of Life, and she's co editor of the annual Best
American Science and Nature writing volumes. And whether it's chatting
about her garden or the way we perceive constellations, her
capacity for wonder is incredible and infectious. But perhaps what
I love most about Jamie was how she clarified that
(14:32):
science and astrology don't actually have to be at odds
with one another, that we don't need science to disprove astrology.
Not that she thinks astrology is a science.
Speaker 9 (14:43):
Exactly scientifically, in terms of astronomy, astrology doesn't hold a
lot of meaning because it's all very human centric. From
the point of view of looking at the stars from Earth, the.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Stars are light years apart. They have no real relation
to you each other except in our minds. But that relationship,
the one we make up while looking up at the stars,
that means something, or it can mean something if you
want it to.
Speaker 9 (15:13):
It's like a much more eloquent, poetic personal fortune cookie.
And I don't mean that disparagingly. I just think that
it's for you to take from it what you need.
Like we don't think it's anti science to say a
poem is true. I think that's where science gets defensive,
is when people say that astrology is a science and
(15:34):
has physical roots in the stars. It's like, oh no
it doesn't, but it's true the way a poem is true.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I can't tell you how much I love that. I mean,
as someone who's a skeptic but also a romantic, this
idea that astrology is true the same way a poem
is true. That feels right to me, and it's something
my friend Pete also said when I talk to him,
Pete Steele is, well, it's complicated.
Speaker 7 (16:03):
So like even though I was in like a semi
successful like musician, I was like, I need to make
money somehow, like right now, Like what other skills do
I have?
Speaker 8 (16:12):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (16:12):
I do astrology.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
He is a rock star, like a real rock star.
He used to be in the Walkman, Oh that massive
seminal Indie rock band. And yes, his backup career was
professional astrology. When he was younger, he trained with this
(16:36):
big famous guru. He was living in his guest house
and that's where he learned to read star charts.
Speaker 7 (16:42):
You would take him back to him and he would
say like, no, it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, Like,
you're wrong, you know, and then he kind of in
very traditional style like yell at the apprentice sort of thing,
kung Fu master, right, the very very karate kid kind
of feeling right.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
But here's the other thing. Pete doesn't even believe in astrology.
He's a rock star who does astrology for politicians and
World Bank economists and all sorts of interesting folks, but
he doesn't believe in it.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
It's just art to me.
Speaker 7 (17:16):
And I don't mean that dismissively, like, but that's like
my whole being, Like, that's what I care about.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
What he believes really is in a more vivid reality,
a kind of embroidered view of the world. Pete and
I both spent formative years in India, and we have
a certain comfort in the magical if you.
Speaker 7 (17:33):
Read like one hundred Years of Solitude or something like that,
world of like this kind of magical Columbia. You know,
it's like that felt very similar in a lot of
ways to how we were raised.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Magical explanations have been woven throughout my life, like why
was my family's little community in India so well off?
A century ago. You could say it's because of luck
or global economics. You could say it's because when the
Civil War was happening in the US, England actually needed
more sources of cotton to replace all the cotton that
(18:12):
the US had been producing. And my family they just
happened to be in the right place to manage mills
and plant cotton on their land. Or you could tell
the story in a way that's way, way more magical,
that a great great ancestor had this powerful vision from
a goddess that if he chanted a simple string of
prayers every single night, and he taught all his children
(18:35):
to sing it, and they taught all their children, his
people would be protected for years. And for most of
my life, I only knew that second.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
Story Shanta Majimus mah Luxmi maji ja jakadambe I'm baby.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
About buying Chapter four. Mopeds and mini skirts. Arranged marriage
has always been this thing that's hard for me to
talk about. When I first moved to Delaware, kids in
my elementary school had all these questions for me about
being Indian, right, like does your family sleep on a
(19:21):
bed of nails? Can charm snakes? Just you know, these
things they'd seen on cartoons, and arranged marriage was just
another one of these questions I'd have to field, except
this one actually bothered me more because this time I'd
have to admit that, yes, my parents did have an
arranged marriage, and then I'd have to explain that The
(19:42):
thing is, everyone assumed my mom and dad were like forcibly,
paired off when they were nine years old and then
sent away to work and have kids, and that isn't true.
It's like my parents' situation was a little more like
pride and prejudice. Like, you come from a good family,
your parents want you to marry into another good family,
(20:04):
so they set you up. They make introductions to certain people,
and if you like each other, they kind of fast
track the marriage or they make more introductions. But since
this was already super hard to explain, I just left
out the part of astrology, which also plays a big
role in the whole arranged marriage thing. It was like,
(20:27):
I don't know, just too difficult or embarrassing something. After all,
it's a weird thing to have to admit you only
exist because of astrology. But I'll let my mom explain.
Tell me about how your marriage was arranged.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
Oh, that's funny, okay. Umishi's aunt Shadaka. She came to
see Amma because she'd heard that, you know, I was available.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I guess this story starts, of course, with two families
dusting off their kid's horse and handing them off to
a trusted astrologer, not some low level quack.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
So they matched it and it mashed perfectly.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
The traditional Indian matching system is way more complicated than
just saying is you a scorpio? A proper celestial marriage
is supposed to be a union of souls, so the
astrologers inspect all the vagaries of your chart and pressure
test everything like your personalities, your feelings about class and status,
even how a couple's health will be affected by one another.
(21:29):
It's all on the scale of thirty six points, and
any match under eighteen points shouldn't be considered, But anything
over thirty two, that's something you want to lock down immediately.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
My patents want to make sure that the man Amadi
did not let me, She asked the astrology you know,
how is his nature? So the strologia todama that Umish
was a gentle creature, you know, never lost system.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
But so this part is one hundred percent true. I've
only ever heard my dad yell a handful of times,
and most of that was when our dog Lupini would
just race out of the house and he would run
after her with this like slice of Kraft singles cheese,
just waving it to try to tempt her back. And
it always worked because she was super greedy.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
But one fault he'd have is never come on time
to the table to have dinner. And we thought it
was a big joke, and that came true. If we
couldn't believe that astrology could be that powerful to tell
a quirk like that.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Wasn't there something else with the mother in law?
Speaker 4 (22:32):
The mother law? Yes, they said that I would be
best for a boy that did not have a mother.
I really don't know. They said it was something to
do with the stars, and if I had a mother
in lot it wouldn't go well. So here Umish had
lost his mother when he was under year. I think
we just about a year, so it was perfect.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
This is something I think about a lot, how astrology
accounts for everything. My dad had an ayah or a nanny,
but he never had a mother. His life was a
series of hostels and boarding schools, sometimes in cities hundreds
of miles from his home. It makes me sad to
think about, but if his mom had survived, my parents
(23:16):
would never have been together. Astrology would have made sure
of that. Anyway, back to my mom. Even though my
grandmom was working really hard to set her up, my
mom was not keen to get married.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I wasn't ready. I was still studying and it was
in my final year for Masters, studying linguistics. I didn't
want to give that up and didn't want to get
married that fast. Yeah, so I felt like a Josico.
I wasn't happy, and things were really moving faster than
I ever expected. So I said, I'm going to foil this.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
So, just to get the picture, a typical woman hoping
for a match would be waiting, sitting by her parents,
dressed in a sorry or something traditional, like making a
big show of what a quiet and obedient wife they
could be. And instead I.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Had a miniskirt on and I had lambretta. I wrote
that and came.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Oh, and she's also late, Like my mom is the
most punctual person I know. She gets at the airport
three hours ahead of time. And that since I was
a kid, so she's clearly trying to tank this thing.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
And my hair, I'd let it lose and curly wasn't done.
But instead, you know, Mishuzana said, Oh, that's no problem.
We love more than girls.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
What type of women do you think Mama was expecting
to present.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
She wanted them to know that I was absolutely sensitive
and very loving, very kind and gentle with everyone, and
animal lover.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
But my Grandmam was also incredibly honest, so she was
sure to tell my dad's family this.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
I had no interest in cooking.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Anyway. Despite my mom's lack of interest in the kitchen
and her dramatic attempt to topple this whole affair, she
somehow still won my dad's family over.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
So I must say, here's the deal. Let him write
to you. If you don't like him, it's fine.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
He was a charming writer.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
He was a tom directed.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
So they wrote letters back and forth for a year,
and when they finally met in person.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
You know, he looked so vulnerable that I said, oh,
this is great. I can handle him.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
My parents don't have a perfect marriage, but there are
lots of wonderful bits things that make me think those
thirty two points mean something like once when they were young,
they visited Paris and they went to dinner at this
fancy restaurant with a ballroom, and then orchestra started playing
and no one was dancing crickets. So my dad just
(25:50):
whisked my mom onto the dance floor and then slowly
everyone in the place joins in. And when my parents
went back to their table, the band leader had actually
sent them this gorgeous bottle of brandy to say thank
you for livening the place up and forgetting everyone dancing.
I mean, if astrology can promise you those sorts of
scenes like who wouldn't listen? Of course, astrology has done
(26:12):
damage in the family too. Here's my mom telling me
about an arranged marriage gone wrong.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
My cousin Nana. The girl that they looked for the
horoscope matched with him.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
Who's your cousin, Nana?
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Nana from Manglo Nalipachison, So there was a danger of
his brother dying if the girl married Nana.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
The astrologers have predicted that if the couple went through
with the marriage, even though their horoscopes matched, it could
lead to Nanu's brother's death. I mean, who wants that
on their hands? Even if it's putting your chances for
love at risk.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
So to this day he still a bachelor.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Really, Oh wow, what do you think about that?
Speaker 4 (26:54):
It's a shame. Yeah, they could have found other girls,
but he just was dejected, said normal, normal hotorscopes.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
That's heartbreaking, really is Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
After chatting with my mom, two things occurred to me. First,
the chasm between the way Americans and Indians used astrology
that only felt wider, Like no app was going to
tell you to quit your NBA to marry some guy
in America, or to break it off with this girl
because it could bring bad luck or death to another
family member, like the starkness of the way Indian astrology
(27:40):
can be used to control lives. It felt so dark,
but also pretty intriguing, like it only made me want
to dig in more. And the second thing I remembered
is this piece of advice AJ gave me about really
embracing the show.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
I think you got to go all in, So you've
got to hire an astrologer to help you with the show.
Let's figure out when you should start. When should the
air date be, Who should you hire to help you?
Should it be a Virgo or a Capricorn? Like, go
for it, because that's one way to test it is
to see does it work for you?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
So I decided to find an Indian astrologer and solve
both problems. I could lean into my Indian side and
also have some fun with it. But what I didn't
know was that that visit was going to change my life.
(28:50):
Chapter five We go to Queens. On April ninth, I
headed to Queens to meet an astrologer. He's someone my
friend and showrunner for the show, Mary recommended that I
reach out to, and coincidentally, he happened to be an
(29:11):
astrologer that my cousin Aditya had used. Yeah, the hey,
how was you d A? That is another rational type.
He's kind of this white shoe lawyer, masters from Cambridge,
and he used this astrologer in a difficult time and
apparently the predictions had proven accurate. So I've actually wanted
to see him again. So I took a train to
(29:31):
Jackson Heights to meet doctor Rakish Kamar and we entered
his white wood frame office. From the outside, it's kind
of nondescripts like this row house, but when you opened
the door, you immediately sensed these temple like vibes. So
I took off my shoes at the entrance, walked through
a fog of sweet sandalwood, and there were these massive
(29:54):
photos of his guru on the wall. And then I
turned into this tiny room with a wood and it
had a giant stack of books on it with a
little black laptop on top. Looking around, I realize how
fun this is. I'm here on this field trip with
my cousin, this astrology adventure, and I'm so ready to
(30:15):
hear some ridiculous things and enjoy this experience. Doctor Kamar
very sweetly welcomes me in. He closes his emails, and then,
using the information I'd sent him a few days before,
he pulls up my chart and turns on his recorder.
Speaker 8 (30:33):
So I'm just looking at it. Charted me first nineteen
seventy nine, Gel War four in the afternoon, summit, New Jersey.
You're born on a Tuesday. You have the sign Cancerizing this.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I've got to say I was a little surprised by
how quickly doctor Kamar dives in. It seems like he's
just staring at a bunch of numbers on his screen,
but he's interpreting them, kind of like Neo from the matrix,
and I'm curious to hear my reading. But what I
really want to do is asked doctor Kamar about the show.
I thought it'd be fun if there were these auspicious
(31:05):
dates for my podcast, or if you could predict something
about how many people would listen. But first he had
some questions for me.
Speaker 8 (31:14):
So, how's work been since January twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
That's when I decided to quit my job.
Speaker 8 (31:24):
Okay, so either you would have quit your job where
the job would have quit you one of the things
because the time of such because it impacts your converch
through your work career. It's so ironic. You come here
today two days from now, April thirteenth onwards. Then after
a new chapter of your life begins, another beginning of
your life, which will be very good.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
This is what I came for. I write down April
thirteenth on my notebook and I circle it big. Four
days from now. That's the date I'm going to get
started on my show. Doctor Kamara continues with more work
related things. He says foreign travelers in the cards, which
is super exciting, and that I should wear an emerald
(32:06):
to improve my communication skills, which is funny. I make
a note to do an episode on gems and veda
astrology down the line. But the best part is that
doctor Kamar seems to think this whole podcast will go
really well.
Speaker 8 (32:21):
So it's very profound. So you'll make it big in life,
You'll be very successful in everything, because your planets show that.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
I'm so excited about all this tape, getting a start
date for the show, the talk of gems, this prediction
that everything might go well, that I'm caught off guard
by doctor Kamar's next question, which comes out of nowhere.
Speaker 8 (32:42):
Tell me something about your father, like what he did
for work or still does.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
He's a chemical engineer. Okay, he's retired.
Speaker 7 (32:53):
He's ill right.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Now listening back, I don't know why I mentioned my
dad was ill. Doctor Kamar hadn't asked, and maybe it's
because I was trying to participate fully, like I thought
I should let him know. Years ago, my dad was
diagnosed with cancer, but he actually sailed through that treatment
and he's been cancer free for a while now. But
(33:17):
recently he broke a rib reaching for something, which was odd,
and then he also had this slight boost and some
liver counts which his doctor told him not to worry about.
Speaker 8 (33:27):
Because that's why I asked again. From the time he
started a couple of years back till now, a situation
doesn't look good for father. There is risk to father.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
This thing about my dad. It was a throwaway line
in the middle of an hour and a half interview.
I don't even know how closely I was listening. By
the time we hit stop on the recorder, I was thrilled.
I had over an hour of material and I was
cutting tape in my head as I was asking questions,
and I felt good. I thanked doctor Kamar for his time,
(33:59):
and I let him run off to feed his mother lunch,
which he does every day, and my cousin and I
walked off to get fresh dosas in Italy's that one
of the many canteens that dot this area of Jackson
Heights so well, I turned to thank you for you,
and then twenty minutes into chatting and laughing and debating
(34:22):
what's real about astrology and what isn't and how can
you even tell right? I received this email from my dad.
It read we just received the results of the MRCP testing.
Unfortunately the news is not as good as it could be.
We'll talk to doctor Thomas and doctor Shakur and let
(34:43):
you know as soon as we can. Study result diffuse
metastatic disease throughout the liver and bones from unknown primary.
The cancer had metastasized through my dad's liver and bones.
I don't know what it means, but I've forgotten about astrology.
(35:05):
I don't care about emeralds or whether any of this
feels embarrassing anymore. My stomach drops. I can't finish my child.
I don't know what to write, so I just tap out.
I'm so sorry, Dad. I'll call you back in a bit.
And all I'm thinking now is how fast can I
(35:28):
get to Atlanta Next week? On Skyline Drive, we take
(35:52):
a train to be a ridge, meet a therapist who
secretly uses astrology behind your client's backs, and hang out
with a seventy four year old who just wants to know.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Am I ever gonna have sex with somebody again?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
And we use astrology to get her an answer. Thank
you so much for listening. I have so many people
to thank. Skyline Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope and
iHeart Podcast. The show is hosted and written by me
Mongish Heartikular with a ton of help like so much
(36:27):
help from these wonderful people. Mary Philip Sandy is our
cat loving supervising producer. Miitra Bunshahi produced this whole thing
despite my constantly getting in the way. Mark Lotto is
our incredible story editor who even suffered a trip to
India with me. This episode was mixed by my pal
at Soundboard with scoring from Botany. The song Yola Mango
(36:50):
is my absolute favorite. The insane music in between is
courtesy of Azadi Records, Himanshusuri and Peter Matthew Bauer. If
you want to hear we made you a mixtape, just
check out the show notes. Additional production and research support
from the wonderful Anna Rubinova through Shivrau Lucas, Riley Bethan Mcalouso,
(37:12):
aditya bus Thrower, and my wonderful wife Lizzie Jacobs. There's
also my superstar Aunt Summon, the Woman Buckshi and my
cousin Argent Bukshi, who helped me out of a giant
pinch abroad. The show is executive produced from iHeart On,
my Good Pals, Nikki Etour and Katrina Norvel. This show
would not have happened without the support of my friends
(37:33):
at Kalidoscope, starting with my good pal Ozwolishan, who believed
in this show. He's also my partner at Kaleidoscope. Also
Kate Osborne for her spot on notes, cost Us Linos
for his encouragement, and Vahini Shori for her delightful suggestions.
I also want to give a little special thanks to
all the kiddos who bore with us through this production,
(37:54):
Henry Ruby, Julian Grendel, Lou and little enzo Etour. All
my friends at I Heart, including Bob Connell, Will Carrie,
Nathan Jason, Jerry My New York and Atlanta Cruz. There
are too many to name. Also Shantan Sarub, my family
in India, my family in the States, my friend Noel
Brown who read this episode's warning check out his show's
(38:16):
ridiculous history and stuff they don't want you to know.
And just one last thank you to my Amma and
my dad, Lalita and Amije Artigudur, who I thank my
lucky stars for thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
Dom Dom Dim Dam Doom Doom Dim Doom Doom did
Warning. The following episode contains adult language discussion of miracles,
arranged marriages, chanting tatum, and disclosure of at least one
Bible approof stoning. Sensitive listeners. Take care.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So here's a confession I'm going to make right at
the top of the show. I don't believe in astrology,
but astrology keeps happening to me.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Now.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Everyone says podcasting is the most visual medium, So I
made you a slide show to try to explain. This
is the real skyline drive. It's in Delaware, and growing
up when I couldn't sleep, it's one of the many
places I would drive to look at the stars. This
is the moon. It rules our emotions. This is mercury
(01:07):
in retrograde. You know it because it makes life miserable.
This is Rahu and k Thu. They're important and mischievous
nodes in Vedaic astrology. They're prominent in Donald Trump's horoscope,
and they're also responsible for Paris Hiltan. This is me.
I was born May first, nineteen seventy nine. This is
the sky at the time I was born. In Western astrology,
(01:29):
it makes me a Taurus. These are some other tauruses,
polepot I, Toolo, Komeni, Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler, Barbara Streisan.
The fact that we're all tauruses has made me doubt
astrology for a very long time. These are my parents.
They've been hitched fifty one years and every morning my
dad makes my mom a cup of tea and then
(01:51):
they sit and do the spelling, be and pencil. It's adorable, right,
These are my parents calling in the middle of this recording, Si, Magisha,
I thank you. It's going calling back. Give me a club.
This is India when I was growing up, where it's
like yoga and meditation and turmeric and astrology. These are
words that were part of my Indian life, but they
(02:12):
weren't a part of my going to school fitting into
America one. But now now everyone has an opinion about it.
I'm a Gemini, which I've heard is bad.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
I'm a Libra, so I'm indecisive.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
That's definitely true.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I'm a tourust.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I find it starts to be beautiful.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
It sucks that we can't see your starts in New
York because all the lights.
Speaker 6 (02:31):
I know a few people who are kind of into it,
and they like ask, yo, do you see the horoscope today?
And I'm like, nah, bro, not really, I'm not worried
about what the horoscope says.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
I know a lot of people don't believe in it,
but why can't people just believe in things for fun,
Like it doesn't have to be backed up by anything.
Speaker 7 (02:45):
But if you believe in fantasy football, why can't you
believe in astrology.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
A few months ago, my friends and I set out
to make this show about astrology. We wanted to run
around the city and have some wild adventures and understand
why after so many millennia, people still look to the
sky for answers. This is an astrologer I met in
Queen's He promised me you're going to dig this show.
Speaker 8 (03:06):
I think if you do your own show, he'll become
a super hit, no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
This is a graph of how much I believed in
astrology before our session. Not that much. This is a
graph of how much I started believing thirty minutes later
when something horrible he said came true.
Speaker 8 (03:25):
That's why I asked again. From the time it started
a couple of years back till now, the situation doesn't
look good.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
This is me traveling halfway around the world to answer
the biggest question my entire life. This is a shop
in India where your fortune is waiting for you. It
was written centuries ago and put on a shelf, and
the shopkeepers know which one to pull because it's coated
by your thumbprint and the time you're going to walk
through that door. This, this is me walking through that door.
(03:57):
I'm Mungi's articular from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This is Skyline Drive,
(04:38):
chapter one. Leave your axe at home.
Speaker 6 (04:46):
So I figured, you know, I do need to soone
an astrologer, and there are a bunch of astrologers on
the Upper West Side who have set off with these.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Wait till you're looking for an astrologer to zone.
Speaker 6 (04:57):
Oh yeah, well I need to check it off the list.
I've got one.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Hundred, you know already, this reporting and starting off weirder
than I thought. It's ten o'clock on a bright summer
day and I'm standing here with Ajjacobs.
Speaker 6 (05:11):
I am an author and a journalist and a pisces.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
In addition to being a pisces or technically on the
cusp of Pisces and ares. AJ's a friend and he's
one of my favorite writers. I've come to meet him
in this neighborhood, because in two thousand and seven he
wrote a New York Times bestseller called The Year of
Living Biblically. The book was a phenomenon. It came out
in multiple languages, there were magazine and TV pieces about it.
(05:35):
It was such a big deal that at one point
Marlon Wayns was lined up to play AJ in the
Network TV version.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
The premise was that I would follow all the rules
of the Bible as literally as possible, So that meant
the famous ones like the Ten Commandments and love your neighbor,
but also the lesser known ones like you cannot wear
clothes made of two different kinds of fabrics, so I
had to get rid of all of my polycotton blends.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Giving up polycotton blends is just one of the hardships
Aga endured in the name of journalism. He also grew
a massive beard, shoved wild birds so he could steal
its egg and say a prayer on it. And he
followed seven hundred other Biblical rules literally in an attempt
to understand religion. And somewhere along the way he decided
that to fully appreciate the Bible.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
You actually had to stone people who committed these abominations,
and the abominations include adultera, breaking the Sabbath, but also astrology, witchcraft, divination,
they're all sort of lumped together.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Just the fact that he decided to stone someone was
a shock to me. I mean, Aj is one of
the nicest people I know, but that's how committed he was.
Speaker 6 (06:48):
I didn't want to go to jail for assault. I
just wanted to check it off my list, you know,
stone and astrologer check. So I walked by this astrologer
on the street and just very subtly dropped the pebble
so that it landed on her.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Shoe, kind of a drive by stoning.
Speaker 6 (07:08):
And I was thinking, she's probably not even gonna notice
because I just kept walking. Oh she noticed, and she's like,
what's going on? Why did you do that? And so
I had to tell the truth. Because I was following
the Bible. I thought maybe she'll think it's funny. She
did not think it's funny.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
She was pissed.
Speaker 6 (07:27):
She started yelling at me, like, f you go to
f and hell I was rattled. Even if you're trying
to stone someone in modern day using pebbles, people don't
like it. Well, that's a lesson.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
That's a takeaway rule number one, don't stone an astrologer.
It wasn't the advice I'd come for, but I wrote
it down anyway. But the thing I really wanted to know.
The reason I traveled all the way out here to
meet with AJ was to ask him how to make
the show, because doing the show in astrology it actually
(08:00):
makes me nervous, like, is there a way to talk
about how accurate a fortune telling parrot could possibly be?
Or is there a way to joke about whether an
astro curse can make you bald? Because even if the
show makes me look silly, like I don't want to
get disinvited from a family wedding because I said something
(08:21):
that hurt friends or family or really anyone who puts
stock in these subjects. As I'm trying to uncover threads
and things like how do you tell a story delicately
where you're not offending people but still engaging with all
the subject.
Speaker 6 (08:35):
I have that exact dilemma when I was writing The
Year of Living Biblically, because I was coming in as
an agnostic writing about religion. My big overall advice is
go in with deep curiosity. Don't go in with an
agenda that you're trying to disprove or prove astrology. You're
(08:57):
just an explorer, So go in like with no acts.
Leave your axes at home.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
That I think I can do. After the break, we
talked to an astrologer who doesn't believe in astrology. Take
a subway ride to Queen's and hear this from my mom.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
I felt like a josic though.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Chapter two, just for funds.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Is the phone listening?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Is that?
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Are you listening through the phone?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Pattern?
Speaker 8 (09:45):
AI?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
The algorithm?
Speaker 8 (09:46):
That is the pattern?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Back in twenty twenty, one of my friends shot me
a text linking to this video of Channing Tatum. The
actor had uploaded it himself after using an astrology app
called the Pattern, But when Channing's readings became a little
two spot on, he freaked out.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Are you listening through my phone?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And then just regurgitating the stuff that I'm afraid of?
Speaker 5 (10:05):
And the stuff? You know what?
Speaker 8 (10:07):
Pattern? People?
Speaker 4 (10:08):
You should just call me.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
I need answers right now, poor Channing. I don't know
if he ever got his answers, but what I do
know is that astrology is ubiquitous and lucrative. One venture
capital investor told The New York Times that the app
co star this pattern competitor had the potential to be
a twenty four billion dollar business, claiming it could one
(10:31):
day be as big as Spotify. But if astrology is
as big an opportunity as everyone's saying, I'm wondering if
my company should get in on the act. After all,
it feels so obvious that I don't know even a
nine year old could see the potential. So I decided
to try the pitch out on my nine year old Ruby.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Hey only, why let me get this closet.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I brought you to this closet because I wanted to
pitch you on an astrology app. Are you ready for it?
Why is that? What do you think about astrology? It's dumb?
Oh gosh, Well, maybe you're not the right person for it.
But the reason I came to you is because you
actually have a bank. You spend only my money. You
(11:14):
seem to hoard all your money, and you keep all
of Henry's money as well, which you charge him a
small fee for. So I thought you might be the
savviest person in this family. Is it okay if I
pitch you an astrology app?
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So? Here's my case for it. These aren't your grandmother's
horse ghosts, right, They're talking to you in this very
fresh and fun way. They're up to the minute with
the NASA data. They look beautiful, and they have a
chat feature where astrologers will chat with you live about
your birth charts. Right. And then by twenty nineteen, right,
(11:47):
like you could see, astrology are starting to take over Bumble,
the dating app. They start allowing you to sort your
matches by their birth signs, so like you could say,
like I only want to date Tauruses, or I only
want to date Geminis or whatever. In fact, astrology in
twenty nineteen was a two point two billion dollar market.
What do you think about that? Mind, I can't help
(12:12):
whether you're serious or not. But apps made forty million
dollars that year, and in fact, the next year, when
COVID really hit, people started searching for birth charts and astrology.
Both of those searches hit five year peaks on Google.
So it's no wonder that all these venture capital funds
(12:33):
had started investing in astrology apps early and then continued
to invest. And I'm here to ask you to invest
in my astrology app.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
What do you think, oh, I know, I'm spending oh
my money on a skateboard now on you?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Okay, Well, so Ruby, what type of business would you
invest in? Bubble gum? Okay? Chapter three, Truth and Poetry.
(13:12):
When you go out with a recorder in hand, it's
interesting to see who will talk on tape. We found
scientists at NASA who actually wouldn't talk about their interest
in astrology to us because they were afraid of losing
their jobs. We found PhDs and postdocs who were worried
that if they talk at all to our podcasts, even
to say that astrology was nonsense, they would face professional repercussions.
(13:34):
I mean, it is insanity what a lightning rod astrology
can be. But luckily we found Jamie Green.
Speaker 9 (13:42):
My grandfather showed me a little half of a peanut
that had the germ in it, and he said, that's
going to become a plant. And it was just things
like that that got me interested in the world, which
is the same as being interested in science.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Jamie is a celebrated science writer, and.
Speaker 9 (13:58):
I'm Sagittarius, although you would not know it from looking
at anything about my life. I've got some planet in
Capricorn that explains why I'm not an impulsive adventurer.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
She has a new book coming out called The Possibility
of Life, and she's co editor of the annual Best
American Science and Nature writing volumes. And whether it's chatting
about her garden or the way we perceive constellations, her
capacity for wonder is incredible and infectious. But perhaps what
I love most about Jamie was how she clarified that
(14:32):
science and astrology don't actually have to be at odds
with one another, that we don't need science to disprove astrology.
Not that she thinks astrology is a science.
Speaker 9 (14:43):
Exactly scientifically, in terms of astronomy, astrology doesn't hold a
lot of meaning because it's all very human centric. From
the point of view of looking at the stars from Earth, the.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Stars are light years apart. They have no real relation
to you each other except in our minds. But that relationship,
the one we make up while looking up at the stars,
that means something, or it can mean something if you
want it to.
Speaker 9 (15:13):
It's like a much more eloquent, poetic personal fortune cookie.
And I don't mean that disparagingly. I just think that
it's for you to take from it what you need.
Like we don't think it's anti science to say a
poem is true. I think that's where science gets defensive,
is when people say that astrology is a science and
(15:34):
has physical roots in the stars. It's like, oh no
it doesn't, but it's true the way a poem is true.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I can't tell you how much I love that. I mean,
as someone who's a skeptic but also a romantic, this
idea that astrology is true the same way a poem
is true. That feels right to me, and it's something
my friend Pete also said when I talk to him,
Pete Steele is, well, it's complicated.
Speaker 7 (16:03):
So like even though I was in like a semi
successful like musician, I was like, I need to make
money somehow, like right now, Like what other skills do
I have?
Speaker 8 (16:12):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (16:12):
I do astrology.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
He is a rock star, like a real rock star.
He used to be in the Walkman, Oh that massive
seminal Indie rock band. And yes, his backup career was
professional astrology. When he was younger, he trained with this
(16:36):
big famous guru. He was living in his guest house
and that's where he learned to read star charts.
Speaker 7 (16:42):
You would take him back to him and he would
say like, no, it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, Like,
you're wrong, you know, and then he kind of in
very traditional style like yell at the apprentice sort of thing,
kung Fu master, right, the very very karate kid kind
of feeling right.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
But here's the other thing. Pete doesn't even believe in astrology.
He's a rock star who does astrology for politicians and
World Bank economists and all sorts of interesting folks, but
he doesn't believe in it.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
It's just art to me.
Speaker 7 (17:16):
And I don't mean that dismissively, like, but that's like
my whole being, Like, that's what I care about.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
What he believes really is in a more vivid reality,
a kind of embroidered view of the world. Pete and
I both spent formative years in India, and we have
a certain comfort in the magical if you.
Speaker 7 (17:33):
Read like one hundred Years of Solitude or something like that,
world of like this kind of magical Columbia. You know,
it's like that felt very similar in a lot of
ways to how we were raised.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Magical explanations have been woven throughout my life, like why
was my family's little community in India so well off?
A century ago. You could say it's because of luck
or global economics. You could say it's because when the
Civil War was happening in the US, England actually needed
more sources of cotton to replace all the cotton that
(18:12):
the US had been producing. And my family they just
happened to be in the right place to manage mills
and plant cotton on their land. Or you could tell
the story in a way that's way, way more magical,
that a great great ancestor had this powerful vision from
a goddess that if he chanted a simple string of
prayers every single night, and he taught all his children
(18:35):
to sing it, and they taught all their children, his
people would be protected for years. And for most of
my life, I only knew that second.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
Story Shanta Majimus mah Luxmi maji ja jakadambe I'm baby.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
About buying Chapter four. Mopeds and mini skirts. Arranged marriage
has always been this thing that's hard for me to
talk about. When I first moved to Delaware, kids in
my elementary school had all these questions for me about
being Indian, right, like does your family sleep on a
(19:21):
bed of nails? Can charm snakes? Just you know, these
things they'd seen on cartoons, and arranged marriage was just
another one of these questions I'd have to field, except
this one actually bothered me more because this time I'd
have to admit that, yes, my parents did have an
arranged marriage, and then I'd have to explain that The
(19:42):
thing is, everyone assumed my mom and dad were like forcibly,
paired off when they were nine years old and then
sent away to work and have kids, and that isn't true.
It's like my parents' situation was a little more like
pride and prejudice. Like, you come from a good family,
your parents want you to marry into another good family,
(20:04):
so they set you up. They make introductions to certain people,
and if you like each other, they kind of fast
track the marriage or they make more introductions. But since
this was already super hard to explain, I just left
out the part of astrology, which also plays a big
role in the whole arranged marriage thing. It was like,
(20:27):
I don't know, just too difficult or embarrassing something. After all,
it's a weird thing to have to admit you only
exist because of astrology. But I'll let my mom explain.
Tell me about how your marriage was arranged.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
Oh, that's funny, okay. Umishi's aunt Shadaka. She came to
see Amma because she'd heard that, you know, I was available.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I guess this story starts, of course, with two families
dusting off their kid's horse and handing them off to
a trusted astrologer, not some low level quack.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
So they matched it and it mashed perfectly.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
The traditional Indian matching system is way more complicated than
just saying is you a scorpio? A proper celestial marriage
is supposed to be a union of souls, so the
astrologers inspect all the vagaries of your chart and pressure
test everything like your personalities, your feelings about class and status,
even how a couple's health will be affected by one another.
(21:29):
It's all on the scale of thirty six points, and
any match under eighteen points shouldn't be considered, But anything
over thirty two, that's something you want to lock down immediately.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
My patents want to make sure that the man Amadi
did not let me, She asked the astrology you know,
how is his nature? So the strologia todama that Umish
was a gentle creature, you know, never lost system.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
But so this part is one hundred percent true. I've
only ever heard my dad yell a handful of times,
and most of that was when our dog Lupini would
just race out of the house and he would run
after her with this like slice of Kraft singles cheese,
just waving it to try to tempt her back. And
it always worked because she was super greedy.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
But one fault he'd have is never come on time
to the table to have dinner. And we thought it
was a big joke, and that came true. If we
couldn't believe that astrology could be that powerful to tell
a quirk like that.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Wasn't there something else with the mother in law?
Speaker 4 (22:32):
The mother law? Yes, they said that I would be
best for a boy that did not have a mother.
I really don't know. They said it was something to
do with the stars, and if I had a mother
in lot it wouldn't go well. So here Umish had
lost his mother when he was under year. I think
we just about a year, so it was perfect.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
This is something I think about a lot, how astrology
accounts for everything. My dad had an ayah or a nanny,
but he never had a mother. His life was a
series of hostels and boarding schools, sometimes in cities hundreds
of miles from his home. It makes me sad to
think about, but if his mom had survived, my parents
(23:16):
would never have been together. Astrology would have made sure
of that. Anyway, back to my mom. Even though my
grandmom was working really hard to set her up, my
mom was not keen to get married.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I wasn't ready. I was still studying and it was
in my final year for Masters, studying linguistics. I didn't
want to give that up and didn't want to get
married that fast. Yeah, so I felt like a Josico.
I wasn't happy, and things were really moving faster than
I ever expected. So I said, I'm going to foil this.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
So, just to get the picture, a typical woman hoping
for a match would be waiting, sitting by her parents,
dressed in a sorry or something traditional, like making a
big show of what a quiet and obedient wife they
could be. And instead I.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Had a miniskirt on and I had lambretta. I wrote
that and came.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Oh, and she's also late, Like my mom is the
most punctual person I know. She gets at the airport
three hours ahead of time. And that since I was
a kid, so she's clearly trying to tank this thing.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
And my hair, I'd let it lose and curly wasn't done.
But instead, you know, Mishuzana said, Oh, that's no problem.
We love more than girls.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
What type of women do you think Mama was expecting
to present.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
She wanted them to know that I was absolutely sensitive
and very loving, very kind and gentle with everyone, and
animal lover.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
But my Grandmam was also incredibly honest, so she was
sure to tell my dad's family this.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
I had no interest in cooking.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Anyway. Despite my mom's lack of interest in the kitchen
and her dramatic attempt to topple this whole affair, she
somehow still won my dad's family over.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
So I must say, here's the deal. Let him write
to you. If you don't like him, it's fine.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
He was a charming writer.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
He was a tom directed.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
So they wrote letters back and forth for a year,
and when they finally met in person.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
You know, he looked so vulnerable that I said, oh,
this is great. I can handle him.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
My parents don't have a perfect marriage, but there are
lots of wonderful bits things that make me think those
thirty two points mean something like once when they were young,
they visited Paris and they went to dinner at this
fancy restaurant with a ballroom, and then orchestra started playing
and no one was dancing crickets. So my dad just
(25:50):
whisked my mom onto the dance floor and then slowly
everyone in the place joins in. And when my parents
went back to their table, the band leader had actually
sent them this gorgeous bottle of brandy to say thank
you for livening the place up and forgetting everyone dancing.
I mean, if astrology can promise you those sorts of
scenes like who wouldn't listen? Of course, astrology has done
(26:12):
damage in the family too. Here's my mom telling me
about an arranged marriage gone wrong.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
My cousin Nana. The girl that they looked for the
horoscope matched with him.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
Who's your cousin, Nana?
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Nana from Manglo Nalipachison, So there was a danger of
his brother dying if the girl married Nana.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
The astrologers have predicted that if the couple went through
with the marriage, even though their horoscopes matched, it could
lead to Nanu's brother's death. I mean, who wants that
on their hands? Even if it's putting your chances for
love at risk.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
So to this day he still a bachelor.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Really, Oh wow, what do you think about that?
Speaker 4 (26:54):
It's a shame. Yeah, they could have found other girls,
but he just was dejected, said normal, normal hotorscopes.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
That's heartbreaking, really is Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
After chatting with my mom, two things occurred to me. First,
the chasm between the way Americans and Indians used astrology
that only felt wider, Like no app was going to
tell you to quit your NBA to marry some guy
in America, or to break it off with this girl
because it could bring bad luck or death to another
family member, like the starkness of the way Indian astrology
(27:40):
can be used to control lives. It felt so dark,
but also pretty intriguing, like it only made me want
to dig in more. And the second thing I remembered
is this piece of advice AJ gave me about really
embracing the show.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
I think you got to go all in, So you've
got to hire an astrologer to help you with the show.
Let's figure out when you should start. When should the
air date be, Who should you hire to help you?
Should it be a Virgo or a Capricorn? Like, go
for it, because that's one way to test it is
to see does it work for you?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
So I decided to find an Indian astrologer and solve
both problems. I could lean into my Indian side and
also have some fun with it. But what I didn't
know was that that visit was going to change my life.
(28:50):
Chapter five We go to Queens. On April ninth, I
headed to Queens to meet an astrologer. He's someone my
friend and showrunner for the show, Mary recommended that I
reach out to, and coincidentally, he happened to be an
(29:11):
astrologer that my cousin Aditya had used. Yeah, the hey,
how was you d A? That is another rational type.
He's kind of this white shoe lawyer, masters from Cambridge,
and he used this astrologer in a difficult time and
apparently the predictions had proven accurate. So I've actually wanted
to see him again. So I took a train to
(29:31):
Jackson Heights to meet doctor Rakish Kamar and we entered
his white wood frame office. From the outside, it's kind
of nondescripts like this row house, but when you opened
the door, you immediately sensed these temple like vibes. So
I took off my shoes at the entrance, walked through
a fog of sweet sandalwood, and there were these massive
(29:54):
photos of his guru on the wall. And then I
turned into this tiny room with a wood and it
had a giant stack of books on it with a
little black laptop on top. Looking around, I realize how
fun this is. I'm here on this field trip with
my cousin, this astrology adventure, and I'm so ready to
(30:15):
hear some ridiculous things and enjoy this experience. Doctor Kamar
very sweetly welcomes me in. He closes his emails, and then,
using the information I'd sent him a few days before,
he pulls up my chart and turns on his recorder.
Speaker 8 (30:33):
So I'm just looking at it. Charted me first nineteen
seventy nine, Gel War four in the afternoon, summit, New Jersey.
You're born on a Tuesday. You have the sign Cancerizing this.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I've got to say I was a little surprised by
how quickly doctor Kamar dives in. It seems like he's
just staring at a bunch of numbers on his screen,
but he's interpreting them, kind of like Neo from the matrix,
and I'm curious to hear my reading. But what I
really want to do is asked doctor Kamar about the show.
I thought it'd be fun if there were these auspicious
(31:05):
dates for my podcast, or if you could predict something
about how many people would listen. But first he had
some questions for me.
Speaker 8 (31:14):
So, how's work been since January twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
That's when I decided to quit my job.
Speaker 8 (31:24):
Okay, so either you would have quit your job where
the job would have quit you one of the things
because the time of such because it impacts your converch
through your work career. It's so ironic. You come here
today two days from now, April thirteenth onwards. Then after
a new chapter of your life begins, another beginning of
your life, which will be very good.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
This is what I came for. I write down April
thirteenth on my notebook and I circle it big. Four
days from now. That's the date I'm going to get
started on my show. Doctor Kamara continues with more work
related things. He says foreign travelers in the cards, which
is super exciting, and that I should wear an emerald
(32:06):
to improve my communication skills, which is funny. I make
a note to do an episode on gems and veda
astrology down the line. But the best part is that
doctor Kamar seems to think this whole podcast will go
really well.
Speaker 8 (32:21):
So it's very profound. So you'll make it big in life,
You'll be very successful in everything, because your planets show that.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
I'm so excited about all this tape, getting a start
date for the show, the talk of gems, this prediction
that everything might go well, that I'm caught off guard
by doctor Kamar's next question, which comes out of nowhere.
Speaker 8 (32:42):
Tell me something about your father, like what he did
for work or still does.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
He's a chemical engineer. Okay, he's retired.
Speaker 7 (32:53):
He's ill right.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Now listening back, I don't know why I mentioned my
dad was ill. Doctor Kamar hadn't asked, and maybe it's
because I was trying to participate fully, like I thought
I should let him know. Years ago, my dad was
diagnosed with cancer, but he actually sailed through that treatment
and he's been cancer free for a while now. But
(33:17):
recently he broke a rib reaching for something, which was odd,
and then he also had this slight boost and some
liver counts which his doctor told him not to worry about.
Speaker 8 (33:27):
Because that's why I asked again. From the time he
started a couple of years back till now, a situation
doesn't look good for father. There is risk to father.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
This thing about my dad. It was a throwaway line
in the middle of an hour and a half interview.
I don't even know how closely I was listening. By
the time we hit stop on the recorder, I was thrilled.
I had over an hour of material and I was
cutting tape in my head as I was asking questions,
and I felt good. I thanked doctor Kamar for his time,
(33:59):
and I let him run off to feed his mother lunch,
which he does every day, and my cousin and I
walked off to get fresh dosas in Italy's that one
of the many canteens that dot this area of Jackson
Heights so well, I turned to thank you for you,
and then twenty minutes into chatting and laughing and debating
(34:22):
what's real about astrology and what isn't and how can
you even tell right? I received this email from my dad.
It read we just received the results of the MRCP testing.
Unfortunately the news is not as good as it could be.
We'll talk to doctor Thomas and doctor Shakur and let
(34:43):
you know as soon as we can. Study result diffuse
metastatic disease throughout the liver and bones from unknown primary.
The cancer had metastasized through my dad's liver and bones.
I don't know what it means, but I've forgotten about astrology.
(35:05):
I don't care about emeralds or whether any of this
feels embarrassing anymore. My stomach drops. I can't finish my child.
I don't know what to write, so I just tap out.
I'm so sorry, Dad. I'll call you back in a bit.
And all I'm thinking now is how fast can I
(35:28):
get to Atlanta Next week? On Skyline Drive, we take
(35:52):
a train to be a ridge, meet a therapist who
secretly uses astrology behind your client's backs, and hang out
with a seventy four year old who just wants to know.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Am I ever gonna have sex with somebody again?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
And we use astrology to get her an answer. Thank
you so much for listening. I have so many people
to thank. Skyline Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope and
iHeart Podcast. The show is hosted and written by me
Mongish Heartikular with a ton of help like so much
(36:27):
help from these wonderful people. Mary Philip Sandy is our
cat loving supervising producer. Miitra Bunshahi produced this whole thing
despite my constantly getting in the way. Mark Lotto is
our incredible story editor who even suffered a trip to
India with me. This episode was mixed by my pal
at Soundboard with scoring from Botany. The song Yola Mango
(36:50):
is my absolute favorite. The insane music in between is
courtesy of Azadi Records, Himanshusuri and Peter Matthew Bauer. If
you want to hear we made you a mixtape, just
check out the show notes. Additional production and research support
from the wonderful Anna Rubinova through Shivrau Lucas, Riley Bethan Mcalouso,
(37:12):
aditya bus Thrower, and my wonderful wife Lizzie Jacobs. There's
also my superstar Aunt Summon, the Woman Buckshi and my
cousin Argent Bukshi, who helped me out of a giant
pinch abroad. The show is executive produced from iHeart On,
my Good Pals, Nikki Etour and Katrina Norvel. This show
would not have happened without the support of my friends
(37:33):
at Kalidoscope, starting with my good pal Ozwolishan, who believed
in this show. He's also my partner at Kaleidoscope. Also
Kate Osborne for her spot on notes, cost Us Linos
for his encouragement, and Vahini Shori for her delightful suggestions.
I also want to give a little special thanks to
all the kiddos who bore with us through this production,
(37:54):
Henry Ruby, Julian Grendel, Lou and little enzo Etour. All
my friends at I Heart, including Bob Connell, Will Carrie,
Nathan Jason, Jerry My New York and Atlanta Cruz. There
are too many to name. Also Shantan Sarub, my family
in India, my family in the States, my friend Noel
Brown who read this episode's warning check out his show's
(38:16):
ridiculous history and stuff they don't want you to know.
And just one last thank you to my Amma and
my dad, Lalita and Amije Artigudur, who I thank my
lucky stars for thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
Dom Dom Dim Dam Doom Doom Dim Doom Doom did
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